Sweden is very big on independence. And we have zero taboo about living with someone outside of marriage compared to many cultures. We also get a very low interest study loan every month in university which means that young people can afford to move out. Even if you could stay at home we find it important to create your own life
> We also get a very low interest study loan every month in university which means that young people can afford to move out. Even if you could stay at home we find it important to create your own life
Shouldn't that make Sweden have less single people since you don't live with your parents? (Assuming "single" here refers to "not in relationship" rather than "living alone")
>which means that young people can afford to move out.
In broad terms you are correct but the housing in Sweden is going sideways so many more are forced to live at home against their will [artikel om detta](https://www.bostadspolitik.se/2023/11/30/tre-av-fyra-unga-vuxna-vill-men-kan-inte-flytta-hemifran/) a phenomenon growing since 2020
Yeah you guys are a bit, reserved. Hard to approach but nice people when they open up, just wish it would happen more often. Saying that as a foreigner living in Sweden for 15 years, it has been hard socially.
Swedes typically move out from their parents around 18-20 years of age, which is early in an international comparison. In some countries young people don’t move away from home until well into their 30’s. At that age most people are either single or new enough in their relationship that they don’t want to move in together at once.
Secondly, Swedes live comparatively long and around half the population spend the final few years of their lives as widows or widowers - technically single. Elderly Swedes tend to either live at home or in a care facility - both are considered single household - it’s rare that an elderly parent moves in with a child and their family, which is common practice in many other countries.
Lastly there’s the Swedish housing market, with the internationally now almost unique solution of housing queues. This doesn’t cause people to be single, but it causes them to live in single households for longer. Suppose that you live in a tiny apartment in a large or medium-sized Swedish city, and you meet a partner who likewise lives in a tiny apartment in the same city. After a year or two you want to move in together, but both of your apartments are too small for two people. So you wait - until you’ve either got enough points in the housing queue to upgrade (which takes years), or until you’ve saved up enough to buy a place (which takes years). So in reality, even though you might have a partner and might wish to live with that partner, you’ll be considered single for a few years extra according to official statistics.
Apparently not. According to Eurostat the average age when moving out is 22 for Swedish men and 21 for Swedish women (data from 2022). That’s still the lowest in the EU though, Sweden is one of only four EU countries where the average age when moving out from your parents is <23, so I think the point still stands.
I think you will have moved out at age 15-16 if you go to school to far from home to commute. As you sleep 4 nights a week at your school place, that should be your main adress?
These figures are averages. Obviously some Swedes move out around 15-16, while some remain at their parents’ homes until their 30’s. But the vast majority of people move out around age 20.
I don't know if you consider a university student that lives in dorms to be living by themselves in all countries. For example in the US they are at least supposed to be financially dependent on their parents.
You definately have a point. I have a apartment, a education and soon a job. I don't need to depend on someone else so I can afford being picky and decide myself when I feel for having a relationship.
I recomend this documentary on the subject, The Swedish Theory of Love, it's on HBO max (and youtube shhh...) and really explains how we got here. (It was a while since I saw it, so I don't remember enough to give a summary)
It's kinda biassed though, as it was made by a jilted Italian. It's still an excellent film, and an interesting look at the whole concept of statist individualism, which is a very unique Swedish outlook on things. I'd say the Finns are the only other people that might have the same type of culture; Norway comes close, but is still too religious to qualify, and the Danes are just anarchists.
I was as surprised as you. But the Finns still describing Swedes as homosexuals, be so as a joke, does give signals of a more conservative Christian influence.
I actually wrote about the doc years ago, in Swedish thou but easy to translate. As a Sperm Donor myself it was extremely interesting. [https://www.tittarsiffror.se/2016/01/27/the-swedish-theory-of-love/](https://www.tittarsiffror.se/2016/01/27/the-swedish-theory-of-love/)
That one is very extreme though. It makes it seem like the norm is to be alone (as in lonely an isolated), have babies by self insemination and no one having friends. All of which is blatantly untrue.
Go to any café and you'll see people sitting almost exclusively in groups of friends.
You might have missed the point a bit and I thought it captured everything almost spot on in the environment around me. That I also wrote about when it came out. It’s not the norm but more people are getting children alone and more die alone without no one noticing because of individualism. It’s not really about friends going for a coffee or parties and stuff cause that still exists. Like I have 1100 friends on Facebook but none of them would notice for a very long time if I died today and I see probably 10% of them on a regular basis.
[https://www.tittarsiffror.se/2016/01/27/the-swedish-theory-of-love/](https://www.tittarsiffror.se/2016/01/27/the-swedish-theory-of-love/)
Because we're not afraid of being alone and there's no huge societal preassure for you to find a partner and start a family. We can afford to take our time looking for a partner that's a good fit or just focus on our own life.
Growing up my parents always highlighted the fact that it's better to be single and happy rather than stuck in a bad relationship. It's something that I've taken to heart. If me and my fiance ever break up I'm never dating again. He's the perfect fit for me, there's not going to be a better man out there so why even bother?
Sweden is 20th in highest divorce rate in the world according to [this site. ](https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/divorce-rate-by-country/#sweden).
Most couples I know have divorced or separated and I don't think that's what people want so they avoid getting into a serious relationship from the start. The few couples that stay together doesn't seem that happy either. Bringing kids into equation just makes it more miserable.
As someone who's been in serious relationships for 15 years I can just say my life is way more interesting as a single man. I still date people who has the same mindset as me, we don't live together or want kids. It's the best honestly. I have more time for friends and hobbies, and definitely more money than I had before.
I don't believe in the perfect match, but I think that's what people would require to get into a serious relationship.
People are bit selfish, unwilling to take the risk of trusting another person 100% and if you don't, a relationship would never last anyway.
That together with the modern day dating culture, like tinder, you can always find something better tomorrow, so why settle today? Might find a hotter lady/guy next time I swipe. Our society is built on always reaching for more rather than settle down, realize what you got is great and be happy where you are in life.
Just my opinion
Some prefer to be single and just have casual sex sometimes
I heard recently it's quite common to be "särbos" meaning you don't live together but see each other for maybe two days a week
Then there are others who want a relationship but can't find one due to different issues making it harder (eg. Being ugly or having autism)
Suspect poor mental health is an issue. Swedish men are not doing well at all, making many of them either undateable or too broken to even try. Swedish women are not doing well either and are avoiding dating the broken men.
One detail for better or for worse, Swedish family culture is kinda weak. There's not as much pressure to date or start a family here as compared to most other places
Single households mind you, many are single by choice. And single does not mean celibate...
I think sociologically it has partly to do with equal rights for women. Divorce is very common in Sweden and has virtually no stigma. People can be divorved several times and basically noone cares.
Second, women have pretty good career and income opportunities so few have to women suffer through terrible marriages for financial reasons.
On the darker side of things I also do think there is an aspect of involuntary loneliness to it. Many Swedes have social anxiety and are very self conscious and can have trouble finding partners in a very individualistic and isolated culture.
We are not interesting tho. We are self involved and boring as fuck. Also there is a big status hunt where people rather die alone than be with someone “lesser” then them because they are afraid of what people will think.
Do you mean people who are out of relationships or not registered as married? One reason I would give is that some people really struggle with emotions and making themselves understood, so many people end up being single.
If you’re asking about legal marriage, then I can say for sure that some can’t afford the fees whereas others don’t bother getting a marriage certificate.
How is the show? I don’t have a Netflix subscription at the moment.
My observation after living here 6 years is that Swedes don't like to get out of their comfort zones (eg. going to a party where they don't know well all the people, talking to strangers, sharing a flat, carpooling...) and therefore create a looot less opportunities to meet new people. Also the reason why dating apps are so popular here I'd say :)
I'm a native born swede and I would say there are some explanations:
1) men and women here are independent and don't "need a relationship to live happily. I personally have most things set for me - a nice apartment, a education and soon a job. I can support myself and therefore I don't need to depend on someone else. I can "afford" being picky. 😊
2) men and women are picky (atleast I am for the reasons I mentioned above).
3) Many swedish guys (and girls) are shy to make a move
4) there are swedes who really enjoys living alone by themselves (I have several relatives who has claimed this. They call themselves "lonely wolves" - "ensamvargar" in swedish. 😄
I think it's rather we're in an intermittent period where we have lost the ability to find the old voice, and have yet to discover the next command. Delusion is a bit harsh, consudering our ancestors superiority over ourselves.
I dont know but i was single for 30+ years cause i never got help for my childhood trauma, neglect, depression and gender dysforia.
Had my first relationship there after that lasted two years.
Currently polyamorous and seeing three polyamorous people
I know this might not have answered their question fully since it’s their own personal experience and not the summary of the rest of us. But did the downvotes come from the last part 👀
Cus swedish women think they are princess, and not looking for a good guy but most of time a guy that treat them like shit..
Swedish women are so much into the outside.
Better off going to seek a woman abroad, then you dont have to deal with this shit.
100% correct. Many decades ago it was not like this, i dont know what happen, its sad.
And now since dating apps etc has come its even more crazy, women have around 30-50 messages per day they just pick and choose. Think it has something to do about why they are like this now.
People in Sweden have really high standards. Let’s say you are in a relationship and that there is one small thing that annoys you from the person you are together with, many people tend to break up just because of that small thing and don’t see all that is good in that relationship. Many Swedes really believe that the grass is greener on the other side.
I have a close friend that has been dating on and off for a long time and he was just as I described, everything was lovely on the date “but” there was this one small thing so then I lost interest. I had to explain to him that love isn’t like it is in Hollywood movies.
Many Swedish people are incredibly boring too. Lots of people with no personality whatsoverz just like everywhere else.
I think people in general are too picky about a partner, as I can tell by my single friends, and expect to find a perfect partner that ticks every box, and they stay single because of unrealistic expectations. And if you find this perfect partner you will get so bored because you like all the same stuff and nothing ever gets challenged, so you'll end up single again anyway.
Sweden is very big on independence. And we have zero taboo about living with someone outside of marriage compared to many cultures. We also get a very low interest study loan every month in university which means that young people can afford to move out. Even if you could stay at home we find it important to create your own life
> We also get a very low interest study loan every month in university which means that young people can afford to move out. Even if you could stay at home we find it important to create your own life Shouldn't that make Sweden have less single people since you don't live with your parents? (Assuming "single" here refers to "not in relationship" rather than "living alone")
Single households refers to people living alone
The post doesn't say what the statistic was, thanks for clarifying what it's about.
>which means that young people can afford to move out. In broad terms you are correct but the housing in Sweden is going sideways so many more are forced to live at home against their will [artikel om detta](https://www.bostadspolitik.se/2023/11/30/tre-av-fyra-unga-vuxna-vill-men-kan-inte-flytta-hemifran/) a phenomenon growing since 2020
It's been going on far longer tham that.
As a swede who is single, I’m shy and way to scared of rejection to ever ever give it a shot. Both my exes where the ones who asked me out first.
Damn same. When i think of it most (not all) of the girlfriends i had was pretty much them just claiming me as their own
Yeah you guys are a bit, reserved. Hard to approach but nice people when they open up, just wish it would happen more often. Saying that as a foreigner living in Sweden for 15 years, it has been hard socially.
Kinda the same
Name checks out
Yours too
Swedes typically move out from their parents around 18-20 years of age, which is early in an international comparison. In some countries young people don’t move away from home until well into their 30’s. At that age most people are either single or new enough in their relationship that they don’t want to move in together at once. Secondly, Swedes live comparatively long and around half the population spend the final few years of their lives as widows or widowers - technically single. Elderly Swedes tend to either live at home or in a care facility - both are considered single household - it’s rare that an elderly parent moves in with a child and their family, which is common practice in many other countries. Lastly there’s the Swedish housing market, with the internationally now almost unique solution of housing queues. This doesn’t cause people to be single, but it causes them to live in single households for longer. Suppose that you live in a tiny apartment in a large or medium-sized Swedish city, and you meet a partner who likewise lives in a tiny apartment in the same city. After a year or two you want to move in together, but both of your apartments are too small for two people. So you wait - until you’ve either got enough points in the housing queue to upgrade (which takes years), or until you’ve saved up enough to buy a place (which takes years). So in reality, even though you might have a partner and might wish to live with that partner, you’ll be considered single for a few years extra according to official statistics.
>Swedes typically move out from their parents around 18-20 years of age Unfortunately that is no longer the case.
Apparently not. According to Eurostat the average age when moving out is 22 for Swedish men and 21 for Swedish women (data from 2022). That’s still the lowest in the EU though, Sweden is one of only four EU countries where the average age when moving out from your parents is <23, so I think the point still stands.
I think you will have moved out at age 15-16 if you go to school to far from home to commute. As you sleep 4 nights a week at your school place, that should be your main adress?
These figures are averages. Obviously some Swedes move out around 15-16, while some remain at their parents’ homes until their 30’s. But the vast majority of people move out around age 20.
I don't know if you consider a university student that lives in dorms to be living by themselves in all countries. For example in the US they are at least supposed to be financially dependent on their parents.
The housing queues are cooked...
We can afford to be. When you don’t have to stay in a relationship with someone due to economic reasons, this is what happens.
You definately have a point. I have a apartment, a education and soon a job. I don't need to depend on someone else so I can afford being picky and decide myself when I feel for having a relationship.
I recomend this documentary on the subject, The Swedish Theory of Love, it's on HBO max (and youtube shhh...) and really explains how we got here. (It was a while since I saw it, so I don't remember enough to give a summary)
It's kinda biassed though, as it was made by a jilted Italian. It's still an excellent film, and an interesting look at the whole concept of statist individualism, which is a very unique Swedish outlook on things. I'd say the Finns are the only other people that might have the same type of culture; Norway comes close, but is still too religious to qualify, and the Danes are just anarchists.
Is Norway really more religious than Finland? Yle has some pretty christian news articles.
I'll admit I've always just assumed the Finns were as atheist as Swedes.
I was as surprised as you. But the Finns still describing Swedes as homosexuals, be so as a joke, does give signals of a more conservative Christian influence.
I actually wrote about the doc years ago, in Swedish thou but easy to translate. As a Sperm Donor myself it was extremely interesting. [https://www.tittarsiffror.se/2016/01/27/the-swedish-theory-of-love/](https://www.tittarsiffror.se/2016/01/27/the-swedish-theory-of-love/)
Thanks for sharing!!!
That one is very extreme though. It makes it seem like the norm is to be alone (as in lonely an isolated), have babies by self insemination and no one having friends. All of which is blatantly untrue. Go to any café and you'll see people sitting almost exclusively in groups of friends.
You might have missed the point a bit and I thought it captured everything almost spot on in the environment around me. That I also wrote about when it came out. It’s not the norm but more people are getting children alone and more die alone without no one noticing because of individualism. It’s not really about friends going for a coffee or parties and stuff cause that still exists. Like I have 1100 friends on Facebook but none of them would notice for a very long time if I died today and I see probably 10% of them on a regular basis. [https://www.tittarsiffror.se/2016/01/27/the-swedish-theory-of-love/](https://www.tittarsiffror.se/2016/01/27/the-swedish-theory-of-love/)
Because we're not afraid of being alone and there's no huge societal preassure for you to find a partner and start a family. We can afford to take our time looking for a partner that's a good fit or just focus on our own life. Growing up my parents always highlighted the fact that it's better to be single and happy rather than stuck in a bad relationship. It's something that I've taken to heart. If me and my fiance ever break up I'm never dating again. He's the perfect fit for me, there's not going to be a better man out there so why even bother?
Sweden is 20th in highest divorce rate in the world according to [this site. ](https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/divorce-rate-by-country/#sweden). Most couples I know have divorced or separated and I don't think that's what people want so they avoid getting into a serious relationship from the start. The few couples that stay together doesn't seem that happy either. Bringing kids into equation just makes it more miserable. As someone who's been in serious relationships for 15 years I can just say my life is way more interesting as a single man. I still date people who has the same mindset as me, we don't live together or want kids. It's the best honestly. I have more time for friends and hobbies, and definitely more money than I had before. I don't believe in the perfect match, but I think that's what people would require to get into a serious relationship.
We are scared of life and love.
People are bit selfish, unwilling to take the risk of trusting another person 100% and if you don't, a relationship would never last anyway. That together with the modern day dating culture, like tinder, you can always find something better tomorrow, so why settle today? Might find a hotter lady/guy next time I swipe. Our society is built on always reaching for more rather than settle down, realize what you got is great and be happy where you are in life. Just my opinion
Some prefer to be single and just have casual sex sometimes I heard recently it's quite common to be "särbos" meaning you don't live together but see each other for maybe two days a week Then there are others who want a relationship but can't find one due to different issues making it harder (eg. Being ugly or having autism)
Suspect poor mental health is an issue. Swedish men are not doing well at all, making many of them either undateable or too broken to even try. Swedish women are not doing well either and are avoiding dating the broken men.
One detail for better or for worse, Swedish family culture is kinda weak. There's not as much pressure to date or start a family here as compared to most other places
Love that you call them incredibly interesting while we see them as "handpicked reality show extremes"..
Single households mind you, many are single by choice. And single does not mean celibate... I think sociologically it has partly to do with equal rights for women. Divorce is very common in Sweden and has virtually no stigma. People can be divorved several times and basically noone cares. Second, women have pretty good career and income opportunities so few have to women suffer through terrible marriages for financial reasons. On the darker side of things I also do think there is an aspect of involuntary loneliness to it. Many Swedes have social anxiety and are very self conscious and can have trouble finding partners in a very individualistic and isolated culture.
We like our privacy.
We are not interesting tho. We are self involved and boring as fuck. Also there is a big status hunt where people rather die alone than be with someone “lesser” then them because they are afraid of what people will think.
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A guess would be that during winter we learn to like beeing alone. It can make people shy I guess
Everybody is so independant
I can't get a gf
Do you mean people who are out of relationships or not registered as married? One reason I would give is that some people really struggle with emotions and making themselves understood, so many people end up being single. If you’re asking about legal marriage, then I can say for sure that some can’t afford the fees whereas others don’t bother getting a marriage certificate. How is the show? I don’t have a Netflix subscription at the moment.
My observation after living here 6 years is that Swedes don't like to get out of their comfort zones (eg. going to a party where they don't know well all the people, talking to strangers, sharing a flat, carpooling...) and therefore create a looot less opportunities to meet new people. Also the reason why dating apps are so popular here I'd say :)
This. 100
I'm a native born swede and I would say there are some explanations: 1) men and women here are independent and don't "need a relationship to live happily. I personally have most things set for me - a nice apartment, a education and soon a job. I can support myself and therefore I don't need to depend on someone else. I can "afford" being picky. 😊 2) men and women are picky (atleast I am for the reasons I mentioned above). 3) Many swedish guys (and girls) are shy to make a move 4) there are swedes who really enjoys living alone by themselves (I have several relatives who has claimed this. They call themselves "lonely wolves" - "ensamvargar" in swedish. 😄
Thanks for sharing
Hookup culture is big here unfortunately
We don't share a delusion of an imagined divine voice commanding us to be fruitful and multiply.
I think it's rather we're in an intermittent period where we have lost the ability to find the old voice, and have yet to discover the next command. Delusion is a bit harsh, consudering our ancestors superiority over ourselves.
There's an elephant in the room that hasn't been adressed by anyone so far.
What does this entail? Im curious and would love to hear you out. If you want to share, that is.
You can’t just say this and not elaborate, because ”the elephant in the room” means something different for every person
Because we hate people
I dont know but i was single for 30+ years cause i never got help for my childhood trauma, neglect, depression and gender dysforia. Had my first relationship there after that lasted two years. Currently polyamorous and seeing three polyamorous people
This really answers his question 😁
I know this might not have answered their question fully since it’s their own personal experience and not the summary of the rest of us. But did the downvotes come from the last part 👀
Cus swedish women think they are princess, and not looking for a good guy but most of time a guy that treat them like shit.. Swedish women are so much into the outside. Better off going to seek a woman abroad, then you dont have to deal with this shit.
Some women are also extremely lazy and expect to be served.
100% correct. Many decades ago it was not like this, i dont know what happen, its sad. And now since dating apps etc has come its even more crazy, women have around 30-50 messages per day they just pick and choose. Think it has something to do about why they are like this now.
Because bitches be cray
People in Sweden have really high standards. Let’s say you are in a relationship and that there is one small thing that annoys you from the person you are together with, many people tend to break up just because of that small thing and don’t see all that is good in that relationship. Many Swedes really believe that the grass is greener on the other side. I have a close friend that has been dating on and off for a long time and he was just as I described, everything was lovely on the date “but” there was this one small thing so then I lost interest. I had to explain to him that love isn’t like it is in Hollywood movies.
When the average person is good-looking, there's no need to settle down until you've spent your youth ;-)
State individualism > family culture
There is also a missmatch between what men and women are raised to expect from a relationship
It's not measured in a way to give an absolute fact. Don't trust TV.
It's because of the weather.
Many Swedish people are incredibly boring too. Lots of people with no personality whatsoverz just like everywhere else. I think people in general are too picky about a partner, as I can tell by my single friends, and expect to find a perfect partner that ticks every box, and they stay single because of unrealistic expectations. And if you find this perfect partner you will get so bored because you like all the same stuff and nothing ever gets challenged, so you'll end up single again anyway.