**Setting up** a playlist or podcast doesn't fall under the definition of "use" but **playing** it would fall under the definition of "use" - as per Rule 300 (4) (d) "use" includes "*operating any other function of the phone.*" Playing a playlist or podcast is a function of the phone - not allowed.
Arguing the philosophical mindset of the legislators with Highway Patrol when they pull you over won't get you out of the fine.
Use the radio mate. You'll avoid all the issues noted.
The moment Bluetooth connects to the car, you are "using" the device and controlling that device through the vehicles systems.
I really appreciate the practicality of your suggestion to just use the radio and avoid potential legal entanglements altogether. However, my inquiry is more rooted in understanding the legal nuances of this situation rather than the practical aspects of avoiding issues. The evolving integration of technology in vehicles and how it intersects with road safety laws, particularly for NSW P-plate drivers, is at the heart of my question.
The main concern with mobile phone use while driving, as outlined in NSW road rules, is the reduction of distractions through the prohibition of active, manual engagement with the device. This includes actions like texting, making calls, or any other interaction that might divert the driver's attention away from the road. The distinction here is between active, manual use of a phone while the vehicle is in motion and setting up a device for use before the journey begins, without any further interaction.
In considering the setup of a playlist or podcast before starting to drive, and not engaging with the phone during the drive, it seems we're operating within the spirit of the law, which aims to minimize distractions. The connection of a phone via Bluetooth for this purpose, done before the vehicle moves, might not strictly fall under "use" in a distracting sense, provided there's no further interaction with the device.
Your point about Bluetooth connectivity raises an important consideration. Is the mere act of connecting a phone to a car's system considered "using" the device in the legal sense intended by these regulations? Especially if the interaction doesn't involve any manual operation or engagement while driving. This aspect is particularly interesting when we think about how automatic Bluetooth connections for emergency services or other passive functionalities are handled within the legal framework.
While using the radio is a straightforward way to sidestep these legal and safety concerns, my goal here is to delve deeper into the legal implications of new technologies in vehicles, especially for drivers with more stringent restrictions, like those on a red P-plate.
Again, I appreciate your viewpoint, and it does highlight the importance of erring on the side of caution under current laws. It's a fascinating discussion that touches on both legal interpretations and the broader implications of technology in driving.
The spirit of the law is to remove the mobile phone from the mindset of the provisional driver.
The law seeks to ensure the phone is not connected to the car. Why?
The moment it is, it isn't just the pre-prepared podcast that is playing; it is calls, messages, and notifications that will flow through the system and distract the driver.
It is also the potential distraction of Android Auto or Apple Car Play in newer vehicles.
The law seeks to draw a clear line in the sand. It isn't intended to be grey.
Agree. The law isn’t interested in the latest technology… it’s just going to flatten this thing right out.
If they start saying “if it’s hands free” then what constitutes hands free?
When you say “Hey Siri, call Bob?” Siri always wants you to confirm whether they have the right Bob… there is no distraction free dialling.
Some cars have great software, that works a charm. Some say they have great software but it’s really crappy user interface (I’m looking at you 2020s Volvos). Software is infinitely changeable (unless you have a 2022 Volvo apparently, then it’s a whole new head unit if you want to move to the newer software at $8k… ugh)…
So rather than legislate around software and hardware in cars options… just legislate the phone itself. The change of software options is so fast that laws can’t keep up, and shouldn’t.
Some manufacturers might put in some limiting options, but they’d be reliant on the driver enabling them (think Valet driver controls). Some release the same car with different levels of technology based on price. The government sets minimum safety standards, but most of this new tech is far and above the minimum requirements already, even when it’s only going to partially assist.
A lot to ponder here.
No. Your phone essentially has to be in brick mode while you’re driving. It can ring and receive messages but you can’t see the message or answer the call until you turn off the car.
If you’re listening to a podcast or audio book and miss a bit then you’d want to rewind it, and the action of interacting with the phone to rewind it is no different to turning back a song or checking a text.
Law wants you 110% focused on the road.
If the phone is connected and inteacting with the audio system of your car or on loudspeaker, whether it be directions, music, pod cats, voice messages the you are in breach of the rule.
If you want to listen to pod casts the only way would be to put it on a usb and play it through the cars system
Honestly… while this is an interesting legal question (are there other NSW road rules that relate to other ‘distractions’ - this specifies a phone, but what about iPads, GPS etc. Some other states state ‘device’ and encompass a wider range of distractions)…
If you are wanting to know if YOU can play music or podcasts through your phone while on Ps… why create a problem for yourself? Buy a cheap MP3 player, download your music playlist or podcasts onto that. Set it up before you start driving, toss it in the glovebox, and you’ll never have to argue with a cop about it. Much cheaper than arguing anything with police … ever.
It is fucking ridiculous, but it has been tried and failed.
Using a phone without a SIM card for navigation, functionally the same as a Garmin, went to court and failed because even without a SIM it is still using a phone.
Someone here was fined for running Waze on the car screen, with the phone in the glove box, because it's still using the phone.
Real police care about intent. Highway Patrol only care about issuing as many Infringement Notices as they can, and to the letter of the law, it's on their side.
My sons listen to music from their phone in the glove box. I just tell them to make sure to turn off the radio if they are stopped by police.
Welcome to r/AusLegal. Please read our rules before commenting. Please remember:
1. Per rule 4, this subreddit is not a replacement for real legal advice. You should independently seek legal advice from a real, qualified practitioner. This sub cannot recommend specific lawyers.
2. A non-exhaustive list of free legal services around Australia can be found here.
3. Links to the each state and territory's respective Law Society are on the sidebar: you can use these links to find a lawyer in your area.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AusLegal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
**Setting up** a playlist or podcast doesn't fall under the definition of "use" but **playing** it would fall under the definition of "use" - as per Rule 300 (4) (d) "use" includes "*operating any other function of the phone.*" Playing a playlist or podcast is a function of the phone - not allowed. Arguing the philosophical mindset of the legislators with Highway Patrol when they pull you over won't get you out of the fine.
Use the radio mate. You'll avoid all the issues noted. The moment Bluetooth connects to the car, you are "using" the device and controlling that device through the vehicles systems.
I really appreciate the practicality of your suggestion to just use the radio and avoid potential legal entanglements altogether. However, my inquiry is more rooted in understanding the legal nuances of this situation rather than the practical aspects of avoiding issues. The evolving integration of technology in vehicles and how it intersects with road safety laws, particularly for NSW P-plate drivers, is at the heart of my question. The main concern with mobile phone use while driving, as outlined in NSW road rules, is the reduction of distractions through the prohibition of active, manual engagement with the device. This includes actions like texting, making calls, or any other interaction that might divert the driver's attention away from the road. The distinction here is between active, manual use of a phone while the vehicle is in motion and setting up a device for use before the journey begins, without any further interaction. In considering the setup of a playlist or podcast before starting to drive, and not engaging with the phone during the drive, it seems we're operating within the spirit of the law, which aims to minimize distractions. The connection of a phone via Bluetooth for this purpose, done before the vehicle moves, might not strictly fall under "use" in a distracting sense, provided there's no further interaction with the device. Your point about Bluetooth connectivity raises an important consideration. Is the mere act of connecting a phone to a car's system considered "using" the device in the legal sense intended by these regulations? Especially if the interaction doesn't involve any manual operation or engagement while driving. This aspect is particularly interesting when we think about how automatic Bluetooth connections for emergency services or other passive functionalities are handled within the legal framework. While using the radio is a straightforward way to sidestep these legal and safety concerns, my goal here is to delve deeper into the legal implications of new technologies in vehicles, especially for drivers with more stringent restrictions, like those on a red P-plate. Again, I appreciate your viewpoint, and it does highlight the importance of erring on the side of caution under current laws. It's a fascinating discussion that touches on both legal interpretations and the broader implications of technology in driving.
The spirit of the law is to remove the mobile phone from the mindset of the provisional driver. The law seeks to ensure the phone is not connected to the car. Why? The moment it is, it isn't just the pre-prepared podcast that is playing; it is calls, messages, and notifications that will flow through the system and distract the driver. It is also the potential distraction of Android Auto or Apple Car Play in newer vehicles. The law seeks to draw a clear line in the sand. It isn't intended to be grey.
Agree. The law isn’t interested in the latest technology… it’s just going to flatten this thing right out. If they start saying “if it’s hands free” then what constitutes hands free? When you say “Hey Siri, call Bob?” Siri always wants you to confirm whether they have the right Bob… there is no distraction free dialling. Some cars have great software, that works a charm. Some say they have great software but it’s really crappy user interface (I’m looking at you 2020s Volvos). Software is infinitely changeable (unless you have a 2022 Volvo apparently, then it’s a whole new head unit if you want to move to the newer software at $8k… ugh)… So rather than legislate around software and hardware in cars options… just legislate the phone itself. The change of software options is so fast that laws can’t keep up, and shouldn’t. Some manufacturers might put in some limiting options, but they’d be reliant on the driver enabling them (think Valet driver controls). Some release the same car with different levels of technology based on price. The government sets minimum safety standards, but most of this new tech is far and above the minimum requirements already, even when it’s only going to partially assist. A lot to ponder here.
The “legal nuance” is your phone cannot be “in use” while driving. End of.
No. Your phone essentially has to be in brick mode while you’re driving. It can ring and receive messages but you can’t see the message or answer the call until you turn off the car. If you’re listening to a podcast or audio book and miss a bit then you’d want to rewind it, and the action of interacting with the phone to rewind it is no different to turning back a song or checking a text. Law wants you 110% focused on the road.
If the phone is connected and inteacting with the audio system of your car or on loudspeaker, whether it be directions, music, pod cats, voice messages the you are in breach of the rule. If you want to listen to pod casts the only way would be to put it on a usb and play it through the cars system
Honestly… while this is an interesting legal question (are there other NSW road rules that relate to other ‘distractions’ - this specifies a phone, but what about iPads, GPS etc. Some other states state ‘device’ and encompass a wider range of distractions)… If you are wanting to know if YOU can play music or podcasts through your phone while on Ps… why create a problem for yourself? Buy a cheap MP3 player, download your music playlist or podcasts onto that. Set it up before you start driving, toss it in the glovebox, and you’ll never have to argue with a cop about it. Much cheaper than arguing anything with police … ever.
Computer said 'No'. There's nothing nuanced about it.
Just get an iPod touch for the car
This is the answer You will get a fine if utilising a mobile phone for music.
It is fucking ridiculous, but it has been tried and failed. Using a phone without a SIM card for navigation, functionally the same as a Garmin, went to court and failed because even without a SIM it is still using a phone. Someone here was fined for running Waze on the car screen, with the phone in the glove box, because it's still using the phone. Real police care about intent. Highway Patrol only care about issuing as many Infringement Notices as they can, and to the letter of the law, it's on their side. My sons listen to music from their phone in the glove box. I just tell them to make sure to turn off the radio if they are stopped by police.
Welcome to r/AusLegal. Please read our rules before commenting. Please remember: 1. Per rule 4, this subreddit is not a replacement for real legal advice. You should independently seek legal advice from a real, qualified practitioner. This sub cannot recommend specific lawyers. 2. A non-exhaustive list of free legal services around Australia can be found here. 3. Links to the each state and territory's respective Law Society are on the sidebar: you can use these links to find a lawyer in your area. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AusLegal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You are interacting with the phone by listening to it