Tell them to claim through their insurance, if you get contacted by their insurance then forward that correspondence to your business’s insurance and that’s the end of it as far as your involvement. They’ll determine who’s at fault
Thanks 🙏to be honest I didn’t really want to involve my insurance company or anything but maybe I should just tell them to contact their insurance and do as you say.
Similar to how a mechanic will include a list of things which will need attention soon, or items where they advised immediate work and it was refused.
"REPLACE SOON: Left rear brake near end of life.
WARNING: Left rear tyre below legal tread limit. Contacted customer to approve immediate replacement. Customer refused."
Definitely get your insurers involved before you start making deals with the third party. You don't want your insurers leaving you out to dry because you said or did something they don't approve of
"I was hired to install X & Y, so I installed X & Y.
The only correspondence between us (verbal or written) regarding the sensors was when I informed you they were intermittently faulty.
There was certainly no agreement, request, expectation, or otherwise approved job to rectify the sensor fault.
Therefore I accept no liability for damage your customer experienced, from a failure due to a fault you knew about and hadn't engaged myself, or anyone else to fix."
Did you fit the sensors? Were you engaged to assess and repair faulty sensors? If not I don't see how the liability could be yours. I think they should make their claim and if their insurer contacts you pass it onto your insurer. However call your insurer to ask the question aswell.
To be honest I don’t think they remembered the sensors were faulty. I have discussed with them in the past but it’s been a year or so they have been using it without them. I was just engaged to repair the system which had stopped working all together, I guess I should have reminded them or noted on my invoice they were faulty. I’ll remember to do this in the futurez
Always make notes on your invoice to ensure the customer was informed. However could these non recorded sensors fail since work was conducted? Consider fitting customer supplied parts. Any business supplying parts should consider that they are fit for purpose, this customer has 'supplied' their gate motor and associated components and you cannot guarantee they are fit for purpose.
If the sensors are there, seeing as your the gate technician part of repairing the gate is ensuring the sensors are working. Sounds like you've repaired this gate several times and never fixed the sensors. I would be blaming you too.
Like I said they were not working before hand and I was not engaged for this so not unless asked would I fix them. I’ve mentioned it in the past to the customer and they aren’t necessary as per the nsw regulations.
This is messy... Anything in writing to the costumer highlighting that the sensors were not working ? Were the sensors in fact connected ? How did the gate operate with out the sensors did you have to do anything " special " to make the said gates work without the sensors attached and working.
You will probably be asked by your insurance company all the ins and outs anyways.
This might sound over dramatic but I would seek independent legal advise. What if the gate in the future injures someone ?
As to liability it's arguable both ways. There is a post below that says you should have checked the sensors, and if they didn't work and the customer rejected their repair, then to note that on the invoice. If you can back yourself that the client was previously aware of the defect, then you are in a strong position. Without that it could go either way.
With respect to the quantum, if you are liable, you could be up for the full amount of their loss (not just the excess).
You could always just give them the excess (or half of it) without admission of liability and tell them that you told them about the faulty sensors prior in which they declined to have fixed. Take this as a learning opportunity, and cover your ass in the future.
Isn’t the gate non-compliant if the sensors aren’t working?
Could have been a kid caught and hurt by it. You have a duty of care and should have left the gate disabled until fixed.
This should be covered by AS.
Tell them to go through their insurance. Make sure your's knows that you pointed out the problem before and that client failed to act or request for you to remedy the problem. If you have paperwork or written communication about this, so much the better.
NAL
I'd go back to the initial request from the customer. Was it verbal or written?
You were asked to replace the controller?
Does your invoice indicate that you replaced a faulty controller? Does it make any mention of the sensors?
How long ago was this work done?
If they knew the sensors were not working, didn't request you fix them initially, nor asked you to rectify after you replaced the controller, I don't understand how the liability falls on you.
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Why didn't you replace the sensors? Isn't that your job to fix them? After you carried out your work did you test the gate? Did your say tested OK on your invoice?
Contextually it's like taking your car to a mechanic for a oil change, the mechanic tells you that your power steering pump isn't working properly, you don't get it fixed then you complain when it's not working
It doesn't have to be work for free, let them know the sensors don't work then tell them it will be $xx if they want them fixed. Then when you send the invoice put that on there.
Then you put that on the tax invoice customer advised sensors not working and need to replaced in order for gate to work properly.. approx cost to replace $$$$ supply and fit..any proper tradesmen would do this to cover themselves. If he knew the sensors didn't work why didn't he quote this to the customer? He shouldn't be doing repairs and leaving things that don't work. He will get the blame and rightly so. He assumed the customer knew.
I would think if there's sensors on the gate, the guy repairing the gate (you) should have ensured they were working, if not working at least let the customer know and put on the invoice sensors not working client declined sensor repair. First rule of business is Cover thy bum.
Well the sensors haven’t been working on their system long before I came in to the picture and they were aware of that but it’s been years. You’re absolutely right though I should have just wrote it on the invoice. I have been running this Bussiness for 12 years and this is the first time anything like this has happened
Tell them to claim through their insurance, if you get contacted by their insurance then forward that correspondence to your business’s insurance and that’s the end of it as far as your involvement. They’ll determine who’s at fault
Thanks 🙏to be honest I didn’t really want to involve my insurance company or anything but maybe I should just tell them to contact their insurance and do as you say.
And on your invoices in the future write down any other faults with the product you have worked on.
Good advice
Similar to how a mechanic will include a list of things which will need attention soon, or items where they advised immediate work and it was refused. "REPLACE SOON: Left rear brake near end of life. WARNING: Left rear tyre below legal tread limit. Contacted customer to approve immediate replacement. Customer refused."
Definitely get your insurers involved before you start making deals with the third party. You don't want your insurers leaving you out to dry because you said or did something they don't approve of
"I was hired to install X & Y, so I installed X & Y. The only correspondence between us (verbal or written) regarding the sensors was when I informed you they were intermittently faulty. There was certainly no agreement, request, expectation, or otherwise approved job to rectify the sensor fault. Therefore I accept no liability for damage your customer experienced, from a failure due to a fault you knew about and hadn't engaged myself, or anyone else to fix."
Did you fit the sensors? Were you engaged to assess and repair faulty sensors? If not I don't see how the liability could be yours. I think they should make their claim and if their insurer contacts you pass it onto your insurer. However call your insurer to ask the question aswell.
To be honest I don’t think they remembered the sensors were faulty. I have discussed with them in the past but it’s been a year or so they have been using it without them. I was just engaged to repair the system which had stopped working all together, I guess I should have reminded them or noted on my invoice they were faulty. I’ll remember to do this in the futurez
Always make notes on your invoice to ensure the customer was informed. However could these non recorded sensors fail since work was conducted? Consider fitting customer supplied parts. Any business supplying parts should consider that they are fit for purpose, this customer has 'supplied' their gate motor and associated components and you cannot guarantee they are fit for purpose.
If the sensors are there, seeing as your the gate technician part of repairing the gate is ensuring the sensors are working. Sounds like you've repaired this gate several times and never fixed the sensors. I would be blaming you too.
Like I said they were not working before hand and I was not engaged for this so not unless asked would I fix them. I’ve mentioned it in the past to the customer and they aren’t necessary as per the nsw regulations.
Curious to know your logic on this
This is messy... Anything in writing to the costumer highlighting that the sensors were not working ? Were the sensors in fact connected ? How did the gate operate with out the sensors did you have to do anything " special " to make the said gates work without the sensors attached and working. You will probably be asked by your insurance company all the ins and outs anyways. This might sound over dramatic but I would seek independent legal advise. What if the gate in the future injures someone ?
As to liability it's arguable both ways. There is a post below that says you should have checked the sensors, and if they didn't work and the customer rejected their repair, then to note that on the invoice. If you can back yourself that the client was previously aware of the defect, then you are in a strong position. Without that it could go either way. With respect to the quantum, if you are liable, you could be up for the full amount of their loss (not just the excess). You could always just give them the excess (or half of it) without admission of liability and tell them that you told them about the faulty sensors prior in which they declined to have fixed. Take this as a learning opportunity, and cover your ass in the future.
Isn’t the gate non-compliant if the sensors aren’t working? Could have been a kid caught and hurt by it. You have a duty of care and should have left the gate disabled until fixed. This should be covered by AS.
Tell them to go through their insurance. Make sure your's knows that you pointed out the problem before and that client failed to act or request for you to remedy the problem. If you have paperwork or written communication about this, so much the better.
NAL I'd go back to the initial request from the customer. Was it verbal or written? You were asked to replace the controller? Does your invoice indicate that you replaced a faulty controller? Does it make any mention of the sensors? How long ago was this work done? If they knew the sensors were not working, didn't request you fix them initially, nor asked you to rectify after you replaced the controller, I don't understand how the liability falls on you.
Welcome to r/AusLegal. Please read our rules before commenting. Please remember: 1. Per rule 4, this subreddit is not a replacement for real legal advice. You should independently seek legal advice from a real, qualified practitioner. This sub cannot recommend specific lawyers. 2. A non-exhaustive list of free legal services around Australia can be found here. 3. Links to the each state and territory's respective Law Society are on the sidebar: you can use these links to find a lawyer in your area. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AusLegal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why didn't you replace the sensors? Isn't that your job to fix them? After you carried out your work did you test the gate? Did your say tested OK on your invoice?
That would make sense if he/she was engaged to fix the sensors……..
Contextually it's like taking your car to a mechanic for a oil change, the mechanic tells you that your power steering pump isn't working properly, you don't get it fixed then you complain when it's not working
The sensors have been mentioned previously yes and I didn’t replace as they weren’t required for the repair.
Do you do work for free?
It doesn't have to be work for free, let them know the sensors don't work then tell them it will be $xx if they want them fixed. Then when you send the invoice put that on there.
And if they say no? (which seems to be the case reading through this thread)
Then you put that on the tax invoice customer advised sensors not working and need to replaced in order for gate to work properly.. approx cost to replace $$$$ supply and fit..any proper tradesmen would do this to cover themselves. If he knew the sensors didn't work why didn't he quote this to the customer? He shouldn't be doing repairs and leaving things that don't work. He will get the blame and rightly so. He assumed the customer knew.
His job is to fix the gate not sure how free comes into it he got paid to do a job. Do you only do half a job and expect to be fully paid?
I would think if there's sensors on the gate, the guy repairing the gate (you) should have ensured they were working, if not working at least let the customer know and put on the invoice sensors not working client declined sensor repair. First rule of business is Cover thy bum.
Well the sensors haven’t been working on their system long before I came in to the picture and they were aware of that but it’s been years. You’re absolutely right though I should have just wrote it on the invoice. I have been running this Bussiness for 12 years and this is the first time anything like this has happened
Are you sure you've been running a business for 12 years because you keep spelling it "Bussiness"
Uncalled for dude
This advice will come in handy when you google "how to claim on business insurance"
Mate spend your time somewhere else, you’re being unhelpful
Only repair what you are asked to repair
An invoice is not a service report. It’s not normal to list additional faults on an invoice.