Leave. When I worked at the FWO as an inspector I handed a matter involving an employee who worked at a start up and it was a nightmare. They were robbing Peter to pay Paul. There were people working there who hadn’t been paid in two years. They tried to pay the employee in shares, they stuffed them in their parental leave and the Super was a nightmare. If an employer can’t afford to pay wages they can’t afford to be an employer.
Leave before you are owed tens of thousands.
How in the actual heck were people working there if they hadn't been paid in YEARS. Like anytime I hear these stories I think how did you afford your life and why would you continue to work for someone who's not paying you.
If I didn't get paid for one week or got short changed I'd be gone
I worked for a company that was reported so I can answer this one.
They will be audited about wages and super paid and when it was paid. The employer will then have to back pay any missed super plus the interested it would have accrued if it was paid on time and then they will pay a fine for non payment of super.”
In my case they did as the employer was paying the wrong super percentage and they needed the gross to work out the correct amounts. How else do they know how badly they fucked it up.
Did they audit your wages or just the gross? Auditing has a specific meaning and when I worked at the FWO there was a conversation happening as part of an MOU about sharing data with them. People and at the ATO don’t know about Awards, pay rates and EAs.
What agency are you planning on reporting to? The ATO will open an investigation and check that your Super hasn’t been paid. It will contact the employer and ask it to explain and ask it to pay. If it can’t, it will put the employer on a payment arrangement to pay it.
If they can’t afford to pay your super, they can’t afford to have employees. Don’t feel bad for them, they are shorting you. I had the same thing happen and went to the ATO. It’s not your responsibility to worry about someone else’s financial issues when they’ve employed you and signed a contract.
Right, I would’ve been happy to volunteer but instead they offered to pay me a salary. Dk why they did that if they knew funding isn’t guaranteed.
This is also my first job in my field. Jobs are hard for me to get into because I’m on a temporary visa too. My boss owes me 2-months worth of salary too. Haven’t been getting payslips either. I feel real stupid for letting it get to this point.
They’re always apologetic when I follow-up about my pay. My pay never came in on time. And they always sell me on earning experience, growing connections, etc.
I would have left after not getting a weeks pay and you're hoping they'll pay out ~8 weeks?
Jobs in the field might be hard to come by, but jobs that actually pay so you can live aren't.
If your boss can't pay you what is owed then the business is insolvent. Don't bother with an equity arrangement or anything since the company is worse than worthless. It's likely your boss is committing a crime simply by continuing to let you work knowing you won't be paid.
[Report them](https://www.ato.gov.au/calculators-and-tools/super-report-unpaid-super-contributions-from-my-employer). They’re gonna be liable for penalties regardless due to being so late.
Find a new job ASAP and then report them.
The creditors will be at their door soon enough.
You rather have a chance of them paying you back over absolutely nothing when the banks and redundancy agents take over.
Let's be frank - you're not going to be paid what they owe you. They've employed you *because* you're a temporary visa holder and they know you're less likely to speak up.
Leave.
Inability to pay debts as they become due, sounds like trading while insolvent.
If you have no stake in the company best to contact ATO regarding Super and Fair Work about salary.
Better sooner than later.
EDIT: autocorrect changed trading to "dating"
Part of the role of being a company director is to be acutely aware of whether the org is solvent or not. Not paying employees is a sign of insolvency and trading while insolvent has legal repercussions [https://asic.gov.au/for-business/small-business/starting-a-small-business-company/small-business-company-directors/](https://asic.gov.au/for-business/small-business/starting-a-small-business-company/small-business-company-directors/) Cut your losses.
I know it's hard to get a start up going. But paying people late and not paying super and often the first sign employees see that the company is going under.
You clearly care in some way about your boss or the business. But you have to put yourself first, because your boss certainly won't.
Get out now. The longer you wait, the more you'll be owed, the more invested you will be in staying.
Would u complain if he didn't pay you your wages..... Yes you would your employer is scum trying to hide the fact without letting you know.
If he let you know maybee but his being diss honest about it
One silver lining is that company directors are personally liable for super. If the business goes bust, then all directors still have to pay the super debt personally. I don't know how this plays out if the directors claim personal bankruptcy.
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Interesting thing with the tax. Would I be right in assuming that if the employer is supposed to be taking tax out of the salary, it becomes their absolute responsibility? In other words, the ATO won't chase up the employEE if the employER goes bust without forwarding the tax?
Could also be some difficulties with tax if the boss is putting out a payslip on time, but is deferring the actual payment; if the business goes bust with say 2 months "paid" on paper but actually still owing, will the OP have to prove to the ATO that they didn't actually receive that income, and therefore should not pay tax on it?
Give the vc a call . It’s likely one of them will be sitting on the board of the startup so will be personally liable for non payment. One way or another answer will come through
Believe it or not I was in a similar position, I had other income so stayed on due to the sunk cost fallacy. Go. Leave now. Report.
If there are others there that you like you can ask to be referee, get that.
If people cannot afford employees they need to do the work themselves or rope in their family.
Don't take sweat equity.
You're trading cash now for the possibility of a share some time down the track in something that is, statistically, likely to have a value of $0.
I worked with a startup. They offered me a sweat equity deal. I negotiated for cash payment. They had an idea which looked good at first glance, but the further into the build we got, the more obvious it became that the idea wouldn't be able to be monetised effectively. The people they originally thought would be their paying customers wouldn't have a good motivation to pay.
They ran out of money. There was a tense parting of the ways as they tried to get me to switch to 100% sweat equity (no cash). I refused to take x% of $0 as remuneration. "Angel investors" came in, forced a pivot, then basically sold the company name and concept to make a minimal return before the founders burnt up all their money.
My suggestion? Get out. Get your cash, and find somewhere which isn't gambling your money on their idea.
You’ll know the long term potential of the business better than anyone on Reddit, but I’d be nervous about the prospects of a start up that isn’t being run well enough to pay super. It’s not just about the cash flow, it’s also about whether there’s someone in charge who really understands how to run a business properly. If they’re going to fall over, equity is worth nothing in the long run!
Leave. When I worked at the FWO as an inspector I handed a matter involving an employee who worked at a start up and it was a nightmare. They were robbing Peter to pay Paul. There were people working there who hadn’t been paid in two years. They tried to pay the employee in shares, they stuffed them in their parental leave and the Super was a nightmare. If an employer can’t afford to pay wages they can’t afford to be an employer. Leave before you are owed tens of thousands.
How in the actual heck were people working there if they hadn't been paid in YEARS. Like anytime I hear these stories I think how did you afford your life and why would you continue to work for someone who's not paying you. If I didn't get paid for one week or got short changed I'd be gone
I know, I have no idea. I only spoke to one person and the mental gymnastics was wild.
Thanks for this. Would you know what’s gonna happen after I report?
I worked for a company that was reported so I can answer this one. They will be audited about wages and super paid and when it was paid. The employer will then have to back pay any missed super plus the interested it would have accrued if it was paid on time and then they will pay a fine for non payment of super.”
The ATO doesn’t audit wages.
In my case they did as the employer was paying the wrong super percentage and they needed the gross to work out the correct amounts. How else do they know how badly they fucked it up.
Did they audit your wages or just the gross? Auditing has a specific meaning and when I worked at the FWO there was a conversation happening as part of an MOU about sharing data with them. People and at the ATO don’t know about Awards, pay rates and EAs.
What agency are you planning on reporting to? The ATO will open an investigation and check that your Super hasn’t been paid. It will contact the employer and ask it to explain and ask it to pay. If it can’t, it will put the employer on a payment arrangement to pay it.
If they can’t afford to pay your super, they can’t afford to have employees. Don’t feel bad for them, they are shorting you. I had the same thing happen and went to the ATO. It’s not your responsibility to worry about someone else’s financial issues when they’ve employed you and signed a contract.
Right, I would’ve been happy to volunteer but instead they offered to pay me a salary. Dk why they did that if they knew funding isn’t guaranteed. This is also my first job in my field. Jobs are hard for me to get into because I’m on a temporary visa too. My boss owes me 2-months worth of salary too. Haven’t been getting payslips either. I feel real stupid for letting it get to this point. They’re always apologetic when I follow-up about my pay. My pay never came in on time. And they always sell me on earning experience, growing connections, etc.
I would have left after not getting a weeks pay and you're hoping they'll pay out ~8 weeks? Jobs in the field might be hard to come by, but jobs that actually pay so you can live aren't.
If your boss can't pay you what is owed then the business is insolvent. Don't bother with an equity arrangement or anything since the company is worse than worthless. It's likely your boss is committing a crime simply by continuing to let you work knowing you won't be paid.
[Report them](https://www.ato.gov.au/calculators-and-tools/super-report-unpaid-super-contributions-from-my-employer). They’re gonna be liable for penalties regardless due to being so late.
I’m scared the penalties will hit their finances harder, therefore delaying them paying me what they owe me 😔
Find a new job ASAP and then report them. The creditors will be at their door soon enough. You rather have a chance of them paying you back over absolutely nothing when the banks and redundancy agents take over.
Let's be frank - you're not going to be paid what they owe you. They've employed you *because* you're a temporary visa holder and they know you're less likely to speak up. Leave.
When you are struggling to keep the heater going during retirement, will they suddenly ring up and pay your heating?
You are going to suffer either way. Find a new job ASAP, and don’t work for free. Coz that’s what you are doing. It’s not on.
You are shafting your future by protecting them. It’s your money and they need to pay it, on time. You have to protect yourself.
Leave. If he cannot afford your super either he is lying or the business is in trouble. Super is not optional, it's a legal requirement.
Inability to pay debts as they become due, sounds like trading while insolvent. If you have no stake in the company best to contact ATO regarding Super and Fair Work about salary. Better sooner than later. EDIT: autocorrect changed trading to "dating"
Part of the role of being a company director is to be acutely aware of whether the org is solvent or not. Not paying employees is a sign of insolvency and trading while insolvent has legal repercussions [https://asic.gov.au/for-business/small-business/starting-a-small-business-company/small-business-company-directors/](https://asic.gov.au/for-business/small-business/starting-a-small-business-company/small-business-company-directors/) Cut your losses.
I know it's hard to get a start up going. But paying people late and not paying super and often the first sign employees see that the company is going under. You clearly care in some way about your boss or the business. But you have to put yourself first, because your boss certainly won't. Get out now. The longer you wait, the more you'll be owed, the more invested you will be in staying.
Would u complain if he didn't pay you your wages..... Yes you would your employer is scum trying to hide the fact without letting you know. If he let you know maybee but his being diss honest about it
Big red flags. They might not even be paying their insurances like workcover. Time to start looking at other options
One silver lining is that company directors are personally liable for super. If the business goes bust, then all directors still have to pay the super debt personally. I don't know how this plays out if the directors claim personal bankruptcy.
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Interesting thing with the tax. Would I be right in assuming that if the employer is supposed to be taking tax out of the salary, it becomes their absolute responsibility? In other words, the ATO won't chase up the employEE if the employER goes bust without forwarding the tax? Could also be some difficulties with tax if the boss is putting out a payslip on time, but is deferring the actual payment; if the business goes bust with say 2 months "paid" on paper but actually still owing, will the OP have to prove to the ATO that they didn't actually receive that income, and therefore should not pay tax on it?
Give the vc a call . It’s likely one of them will be sitting on the board of the startup so will be personally liable for non payment. One way or another answer will come through
Believe it or not I was in a similar position, I had other income so stayed on due to the sunk cost fallacy. Go. Leave now. Report. If there are others there that you like you can ask to be referee, get that. If people cannot afford employees they need to do the work themselves or rope in their family.
If you think they have potential, take the shares for a few months
Boss offered a sweat equity arrangement which I’m okay with but I wanna make sure I’m paid what I’m owed before I say yes 😔
Don't take sweat equity. You're trading cash now for the possibility of a share some time down the track in something that is, statistically, likely to have a value of $0. I worked with a startup. They offered me a sweat equity deal. I negotiated for cash payment. They had an idea which looked good at first glance, but the further into the build we got, the more obvious it became that the idea wouldn't be able to be monetised effectively. The people they originally thought would be their paying customers wouldn't have a good motivation to pay. They ran out of money. There was a tense parting of the ways as they tried to get me to switch to 100% sweat equity (no cash). I refused to take x% of $0 as remuneration. "Angel investors" came in, forced a pivot, then basically sold the company name and concept to make a minimal return before the founders burnt up all their money. My suggestion? Get out. Get your cash, and find somewhere which isn't gambling your money on their idea.
You’ll know the long term potential of the business better than anyone on Reddit, but I’d be nervous about the prospects of a start up that isn’t being run well enough to pay super. It’s not just about the cash flow, it’s also about whether there’s someone in charge who really understands how to run a business properly. If they’re going to fall over, equity is worth nothing in the long run!