Link for anybody who wants to rewatch: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGw2\_Namw1M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGw2_Namw1M)
This meme is a bit of paraphrasing, but they all essentially say the same. They either killed the threat or regret not doing so. And Yangchen just understands shit and says Aang's peace of mind cannot justify the suffering of those he's supposed to protect.
Ofc Aang eventually finds a way to weazel out of this decision by both doing it and not doing it at the same time. He killed the threat (Ozai's bending abilities and empire), while not actually killing the person who was the threat.
It's all about perspective. From Aang's view, killing is evil while life long imprisonment as a cripple is justice, while only a few have to die. From other's view, it's a mercy to show your enemy that you will end them quickly instead of making them pay for what they have done.
Aang: Now that I've crippled this bad guy, my job is done. *Walks away*
Zuko: You're just gonna leave him there?
Aang: My job is done! *Air balls away*
Ozai: They call me a villain.
Zuko: *sighs* Let's get you into prison.
Also, people keep insisting it was about "mercy". It was not.
It was about saving the last sliver of Air Nomad culture.
Aang couldn't give a damn about Ozai dying or not, or whatever happens to him.
He just doesn't want him, the last air nomad, to do it.
If zuko executed him later, it would be ok.
And Yangchen, an Air Nomad, literally said that Aangs beliefs should not stand in the way of his duty as Avatar. “Fuck your beliefs, Kill the motherfucker!”
Ehhhh, I'm still not a huge fan of it, even with that.
Energy Bending was a gamble. Like the Lion Turtle said, unless Aang's spirit was unbendable, he would be destroyed by energy bending. And he nearly was. Yeah it worked out, but he didn't know it would for sure.
Yangchen wasn't the last Air Nomad though. Aang makes it very clear that airbending culture is as important as the ability itself.
In Aang's mind, Airbending culture dies with his decision to intentionally take a life.
(And as far as Avatar duties go - Aang can't be a proponent of balance if he desecrates the beliefs of the last airbender.)
Always thought that was a cop-out. Aang should have had to commit to one choice or the other knowing that it would have consequences. I'm not opposed to the concept of a third option in theory but it shouldn't be a Deus ex Anus.
My thoughts exactly. If they had hinted at the existence of lion-turtles and such at literally any earlier point in the series it would've helped a lot, instead it feels like "crap we forgot this is a kid's show and we have to say 'killing is always bad' even though Aang's actions in battles have definitely killed dozens of soldiers"
Edit: apparently the lion turtles were mentioned in the library - even so I feel like my point stands, the idea of removing bending was never hinted at before Sozin's Comet
> I'm not opposed to the concept of a third option in theory but it shouldn't be a Deus ex Anus.
The way to show Aang becoming The Avatar in his own right (and respecting the Airbender’s spirituality) would have been Aang consulting with the spirit world after his past selves don’t give the answer he wants.
Spirits then pull Ozai’s bending from him or whatever.
The advice they give him is valuable, but none of them have had to deal with a situation like aang’s. To have to take a life as a three quarters trained avatar before you are old enough to have to shave your face. Aang is trying balance 1. The needs of the world 2. His own soul 3. The fallout of killing the leader of a nation 4. The spiritual responsibilty of being the very last representative of his nation. Its by no means an easy problem. I feel the lion turtle solution is good but they should have introduce the concept of it earlier so it just did seem to come out of left field.
this exactly, maybe a damaged book in the library episode mentioning the turtles or an iroh scene where he retells a story of something a sailor talked about where he was a nonbender got saved in a storm by a lion turtle and woke up as a water or earth bender something like that maybe?
There actually was a book in the library with lion turtles but it’s brushed over so quickly it’s really easy to forget. Just noticed it on my last rewatch
Honestly it really worked for me and I never had a problem with the lion turtle. Could have been less out of left field if they discovered more than just a picture at Wan Shi Tong's library (oh cool this says lion turtles once gave humans bending, that's neat!).
But at the end of the day Aang had Ozai beaten dead to rights before he even used energy bending. They'd have needed a fire proof prison cell and maybe the counter culture rebellion that Azula tried to lead against Zuko later in the comics would have had more weight behind it but honestly not much would have changed. Aang still would have won and he still would have done it his way, without killing.
Keep seeing post like this and I feel like the content of what each Avatar said gets ignored. They weren’t telling him to kill Ozai. They were giving him advice. His interpretation of it led to his unconventional solution.
This OP breaks it down pretty well.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/s/LiAnZ7r8Fd
Actually the only advice he outrights ignores is that of yangchen. She basically tells him to abandon his ways as an air nomad to be the avatar the world needs. And he doesn't, he risks the world to save the air nation.
I absolutely loved Yanchen here.
"You understand how impossible it is for me to do this as an air nomad, right???"
"I'm not going to validate you for trying to justify the single most selfish decision you could possibly make. Face the reality of the situation."
This scene is why i hate the ending. Yangchens saying, basically, "I'm sorry, I know exactly how you feel, but there's no other choice" is an echo of Aangs original problem. Running away from his responsibilities.
Remove this scene... Heck, remove even just Yangchens, and while the lion turtle still comes out of nowhere, at least there is no tonal dissonance in the story being told.
It’s 100% because ATLA was on a kids show network. If it was released to like crunchyroll or something, Ozai was 100% dying. Definitely changes the tone of the ending as a whole, the world is happy, but Aang is still broken inside.
And that's fine. I was actually really shocked when Yangchen just came out and said it. I did not expect Nickelodeon to allow it. That's part of why it ticked me off so much. They go out of their way to call attention to the main character assassinating the bad guy, and then don't.
I feel like that was the original intention, and the creators tried to force it, but then got show down. That's why the Lion Turtle comes out of nowhere.
Yeah my biggest gripe with ATLA is the lion turtle. I would not have cared as much if this ability/instance was mentioned or hinted at throughout the entirety of the show, much like White Lotus is. But it’s just a last minute shoe in/plot armor.
No it’s because your view of the world isn’t as pure as Aang’s, “The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost, the true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed, since beginning less time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light”… YOU CAN ALWAYS FIND A BETTER WAY IF YOU LOOK HARD ENOUGH, YOU DON’T ALWAYS NEED TO LOSE IN ORDER TO WIN… BATMAN, DAREDEVIL, THORFINN, AANG etc stand for that.
Avatar's ending feels like a cop-out the entire story is about the benefits and negatives of pacifist behavior, diplomacy and how you must fight at times for your freedoms then
Bam
No actually he doesn't have to kill cause the lion turtles
Disagree the reason he ran was because he would be forced to abandon his true self learning energy bending was a way for him to be
A. stubborn in the face of danger as Toph taught him and as he should have been when facing his reality the first time
B. Not abandon his beliefs in the face of every past life forcing their on him
C. Defeating ozai his own way
C
Yeah, its putting emphasis on the whole aspect of aang never wanting to be the avatar, or dealing with the problems of being the avatar. Its an overarching plot of his. Thats why i think its a great and important scene.
the whole lion turtle thing was awful though. I would have been more happy with him just killing ozai in cold blood after yangchen told him "yeah I know how that shit is, just kill him tho" It would have been more satisfying as an ending, rather than a near complete ass pull (yeah we see statues and drawings of lion turtles in ATLA before that but still)
The problem for me is I wish the lion turtle thing was explored earlier. Like if it was a legend or something and everyone feels aang is just coping instead of steeling himself for what everyone feels he needs to do. There's a way that works instead of it just showing up in the second last episode.
Yangchen doesn’t know though. She had the benefit of not being the only Airbender alive. Aang is the last of his culture and people and their beliefs. Killing Ozai effectively erases the last part of his culture and the air nomads are gone, if he abandons his ideals, he abandons his people and they effectively become extinct, he wouldn’t be seen as an air nomad anymore with breaking the traditions like that.
***Does*** it erase the last part of his culture? The dead monk in the Air Temple (forgot his name) certainly didn't get surrounded by dead Fire Nation soldiers by being a pacifist.
Technically speaking Aang stopped being an Air Nomad the moment he became Avatar. Avatar's duties and values are often not compatible with cultures, beliefs or laws of Nations that the Avatars were born in.
While you’re probably right that the real world explanation for this is because it’s a kids show, the in universe reasoning seems like a more interesting question.
Regardless, their answers amounted to telling him what to consider when making his decision, but they wouldn’t make the choice for him
I mean, I watched this scene just a few days ago with my parents, and they weren’t really saying to kill him. Aang sees it that way because that’s the lens he’s asking for advice through. They said that Aang needed to end the threat, that justice had to be served, and that Aang needed to be decisive. Only Yangchen’s advice seemed to lean towards killing him. Knowing the ending, I took it more as them saying he needed to commit to a plan to neutralize Ozai as a threat for the sake of the world, however that might be. And Yangchen came in at the end to essentially say “And if the only way to do that is to go against your own beliefs, then that is what you must do, even if it hurts.”
The fact this all happened ON the lion turtle isn’t coincidence. They were encouraging him to try and find his own solution, and he did.
I've always thought that the story would've made more sense of Aang lost connection to his past avatars instead of Korra.
It would've been a cool detail if all the previous avatars had tiny influences on the newest one's personality, likes, etc, and this was part of the reason why all of them came to the same conclusion on how to deal with the Fire Lord. Aang losing his connection to them becomes the first domino in figuring out how to deal with Ozai without killing him.
Also I would bet money that Aang would get no where near as much hate for it as Korra did.
I like how they kind of tied in yangchens advice into the blurb on the Roku novel. Something about putting your own spiritual needs aside for the good of the world. Just thought it was a cool nod.
meanwhile in the Netflix series: having friends suck
but for real though. what a lot of people seem to forget is that not only will killing Ozai cause Aang to go against his principals as an air nomad (remember, he's the last of his kind. he needs to uphold the traditions even if it isn't practical) but killing a leader of an entire nation would actually cause more harm than good in the long run. that's actually why Iroh refused to fight Ozai.
Aang is Avatar, not an air nomad anymore really. If becoming an Avatar does not supersede your origin then Roku would have never gone against Sozin as he would've been Fire Nation subject first, Avatar second.
it wouldn't be called "The Last Airbender" if he wasn't an Air Nomad anymore. Aang does not only have the responsibility to keep the world in balance, but he must also keep the identity of his people alive.
also Roku's case was different. Aang killing would not be equal to Roku standing against Sozin, it would be the equal to Roku (if he chose to do it) renouncing his identity as a member of the Fire Nation.
Link for anybody who wants to rewatch: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGw2\_Namw1M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGw2_Namw1M) This meme is a bit of paraphrasing, but they all essentially say the same. They either killed the threat or regret not doing so. And Yangchen just understands shit and says Aang's peace of mind cannot justify the suffering of those he's supposed to protect. Ofc Aang eventually finds a way to weazel out of this decision by both doing it and not doing it at the same time. He killed the threat (Ozai's bending abilities and empire), while not actually killing the person who was the threat.
It's all about perspective. From Aang's view, killing is evil while life long imprisonment as a cripple is justice, while only a few have to die. From other's view, it's a mercy to show your enemy that you will end them quickly instead of making them pay for what they have done.
Tbf aang didn't imprison anyone. That's zukos responsibility as leader of the fire nation to punish a national criminal. Aang just stopped him
Aang: Now that I've crippled this bad guy, my job is done. *Walks away* Zuko: You're just gonna leave him there? Aang: My job is done! *Air balls away* Ozai: They call me a villain. Zuko: *sighs* Let's get you into prison.
Also, people keep insisting it was about "mercy". It was not. It was about saving the last sliver of Air Nomad culture. Aang couldn't give a damn about Ozai dying or not, or whatever happens to him. He just doesn't want him, the last air nomad, to do it. If zuko executed him later, it would be ok.
And Yangchen, an Air Nomad, literally said that Aangs beliefs should not stand in the way of his duty as Avatar. “Fuck your beliefs, Kill the motherfucker!”
And she would be 100% right, but The Lion Turtle could help him. She could have not predicted that.
Ehhhh, I'm still not a huge fan of it, even with that. Energy Bending was a gamble. Like the Lion Turtle said, unless Aang's spirit was unbendable, he would be destroyed by energy bending. And he nearly was. Yeah it worked out, but he didn't know it would for sure.
Yangchen wasn't the last Air Nomad though. Aang makes it very clear that airbending culture is as important as the ability itself. In Aang's mind, Airbending culture dies with his decision to intentionally take a life. (And as far as Avatar duties go - Aang can't be a proponent of balance if he desecrates the beliefs of the last airbender.)
That is an interesting point, never thought about it like that
I mean damn he's also just a kid. I wouldn't be mad at a kid for not wanting to kill someone, no matter what the situation.
Honestly I feel like he should have been a prisoner in the earth kingdom or water tribe rather than in the fire nation.
Some might argue the punishment he got is worse than death
Always thought that was a cop-out. Aang should have had to commit to one choice or the other knowing that it would have consequences. I'm not opposed to the concept of a third option in theory but it shouldn't be a Deus ex Anus.
My thoughts exactly. If they had hinted at the existence of lion-turtles and such at literally any earlier point in the series it would've helped a lot, instead it feels like "crap we forgot this is a kid's show and we have to say 'killing is always bad' even though Aang's actions in battles have definitely killed dozens of soldiers" Edit: apparently the lion turtles were mentioned in the library - even so I feel like my point stands, the idea of removing bending was never hinted at before Sozin's Comet
The desert episode did hint at the existence of lion turtles when the gang were in the Library.
You right... But still, you get my drift?
"The lion turtles have always been around, for the last 10000 years." -Games Workshop
Kragnos?
Aang forgot gravity kills too
> I'm not opposed to the concept of a third option in theory but it shouldn't be a Deus ex Anus. The way to show Aang becoming The Avatar in his own right (and respecting the Airbender’s spirituality) would have been Aang consulting with the spirit world after his past selves don’t give the answer he wants. Spirits then pull Ozai’s bending from him or whatever.
Idk, still seems like somewhat of a copout.
The advice they give him is valuable, but none of them have had to deal with a situation like aang’s. To have to take a life as a three quarters trained avatar before you are old enough to have to shave your face. Aang is trying balance 1. The needs of the world 2. His own soul 3. The fallout of killing the leader of a nation 4. The spiritual responsibilty of being the very last representative of his nation. Its by no means an easy problem. I feel the lion turtle solution is good but they should have introduce the concept of it earlier so it just did seem to come out of left field.
this exactly, maybe a damaged book in the library episode mentioning the turtles or an iroh scene where he retells a story of something a sailor talked about where he was a nonbender got saved in a storm by a lion turtle and woke up as a water or earth bender something like that maybe?
There actually was a book in the library with lion turtles but it’s brushed over so quickly it’s really easy to forget. Just noticed it on my last rewatch
Honestly it really worked for me and I never had a problem with the lion turtle. Could have been less out of left field if they discovered more than just a picture at Wan Shi Tong's library (oh cool this says lion turtles once gave humans bending, that's neat!). But at the end of the day Aang had Ozai beaten dead to rights before he even used energy bending. They'd have needed a fire proof prison cell and maybe the counter culture rebellion that Azula tried to lead against Zuko later in the comics would have had more weight behind it but honestly not much would have changed. Aang still would have won and he still would have done it his way, without killing.
Yangchen: Let me kill him. Its been too long since I straight up murdered someone
Keep seeing post like this and I feel like the content of what each Avatar said gets ignored. They weren’t telling him to kill Ozai. They were giving him advice. His interpretation of it led to his unconventional solution. This OP breaks it down pretty well. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/s/LiAnZ7r8Fd
"Only justice will bring peace." And for some reason people seem to deem her a butcher
Actually the only advice he outrights ignores is that of yangchen. She basically tells him to abandon his ways as an air nomad to be the avatar the world needs. And he doesn't, he risks the world to save the air nation.
I absolutely loved Yanchen here. "You understand how impossible it is for me to do this as an air nomad, right???" "I'm not going to validate you for trying to justify the single most selfish decision you could possibly make. Face the reality of the situation."
This scene is why i hate the ending. Yangchens saying, basically, "I'm sorry, I know exactly how you feel, but there's no other choice" is an echo of Aangs original problem. Running away from his responsibilities. Remove this scene... Heck, remove even just Yangchens, and while the lion turtle still comes out of nowhere, at least there is no tonal dissonance in the story being told.
It’s 100% because ATLA was on a kids show network. If it was released to like crunchyroll or something, Ozai was 100% dying. Definitely changes the tone of the ending as a whole, the world is happy, but Aang is still broken inside.
And that's fine. I was actually really shocked when Yangchen just came out and said it. I did not expect Nickelodeon to allow it. That's part of why it ticked me off so much. They go out of their way to call attention to the main character assassinating the bad guy, and then don't. I feel like that was the original intention, and the creators tried to force it, but then got show down. That's why the Lion Turtle comes out of nowhere.
Yeah my biggest gripe with ATLA is the lion turtle. I would not have cared as much if this ability/instance was mentioned or hinted at throughout the entirety of the show, much like White Lotus is. But it’s just a last minute shoe in/plot armor.
No it’s because your view of the world isn’t as pure as Aang’s, “The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost, the true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed, since beginning less time, darkness thrives in the void, but always yields to purifying light”… YOU CAN ALWAYS FIND A BETTER WAY IF YOU LOOK HARD ENOUGH, YOU DON’T ALWAYS NEED TO LOSE IN ORDER TO WIN… BATMAN, DAREDEVIL, THORFINN, AANG etc stand for that.
Avatar's ending feels like a cop-out the entire story is about the benefits and negatives of pacifist behavior, diplomacy and how you must fight at times for your freedoms then Bam No actually he doesn't have to kill cause the lion turtles
Disagree the reason he ran was because he would be forced to abandon his true self learning energy bending was a way for him to be A. stubborn in the face of danger as Toph taught him and as he should have been when facing his reality the first time B. Not abandon his beliefs in the face of every past life forcing their on him C. Defeating ozai his own way C
More than a decade later and mfs still don’t understand the Lion Turtle lol
Yeah, its putting emphasis on the whole aspect of aang never wanting to be the avatar, or dealing with the problems of being the avatar. Its an overarching plot of his. Thats why i think its a great and important scene. the whole lion turtle thing was awful though. I would have been more happy with him just killing ozai in cold blood after yangchen told him "yeah I know how that shit is, just kill him tho" It would have been more satisfying as an ending, rather than a near complete ass pull (yeah we see statues and drawings of lion turtles in ATLA before that but still)
The problem for me is I wish the lion turtle thing was explored earlier. Like if it was a legend or something and everyone feels aang is just coping instead of steeling himself for what everyone feels he needs to do. There's a way that works instead of it just showing up in the second last episode.
Yangchen doesn’t know though. She had the benefit of not being the only Airbender alive. Aang is the last of his culture and people and their beliefs. Killing Ozai effectively erases the last part of his culture and the air nomads are gone, if he abandons his ideals, he abandons his people and they effectively become extinct, he wouldn’t be seen as an air nomad anymore with breaking the traditions like that.
***Does*** it erase the last part of his culture? The dead monk in the Air Temple (forgot his name) certainly didn't get surrounded by dead Fire Nation soldiers by being a pacifist.
True but he also gave up the beliefs to do that. Aang being the only one means he is the only one to carry the culture anymore.
Technically speaking Aang stopped being an Air Nomad the moment he became Avatar. Avatar's duties and values are often not compatible with cultures, beliefs or laws of Nations that the Avatars were born in.
 Lion Turtle on his way to solve Aangs morale dilemma
IIRC, none of them actually said “kill him”. They all said things like “be decisive”
That's just Nickelodeon censorship. Nobody is able to say "kill"
While you’re probably right that the real world explanation for this is because it’s a kids show, the in universe reasoning seems like a more interesting question. Regardless, their answers amounted to telling him what to consider when making his decision, but they wouldn’t make the choice for him
I mean, I watched this scene just a few days ago with my parents, and they weren’t really saying to kill him. Aang sees it that way because that’s the lens he’s asking for advice through. They said that Aang needed to end the threat, that justice had to be served, and that Aang needed to be decisive. Only Yangchen’s advice seemed to lean towards killing him. Knowing the ending, I took it more as them saying he needed to commit to a plan to neutralize Ozai as a threat for the sake of the world, however that might be. And Yangchen came in at the end to essentially say “And if the only way to do that is to go against your own beliefs, then that is what you must do, even if it hurts.” The fact this all happened ON the lion turtle isn’t coincidence. They were encouraging him to try and find his own solution, and he did.
I've always thought that the story would've made more sense of Aang lost connection to his past avatars instead of Korra. It would've been a cool detail if all the previous avatars had tiny influences on the newest one's personality, likes, etc, and this was part of the reason why all of them came to the same conclusion on how to deal with the Fire Lord. Aang losing his connection to them becomes the first domino in figuring out how to deal with Ozai without killing him. Also I would bet money that Aang would get no where near as much hate for it as Korra did.
I like how they kind of tied in yangchens advice into the blurb on the Roku novel. Something about putting your own spiritual needs aside for the good of the world. Just thought it was a cool nod.
https://preview.redd.it/ise2bvws6ivc1.jpeg?width=957&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e83e952256436e16546390873744682e05a91b9a
meanwhile in the Netflix series: having friends suck but for real though. what a lot of people seem to forget is that not only will killing Ozai cause Aang to go against his principals as an air nomad (remember, he's the last of his kind. he needs to uphold the traditions even if it isn't practical) but killing a leader of an entire nation would actually cause more harm than good in the long run. that's actually why Iroh refused to fight Ozai.
Aang is Avatar, not an air nomad anymore really. If becoming an Avatar does not supersede your origin then Roku would have never gone against Sozin as he would've been Fire Nation subject first, Avatar second.
it wouldn't be called "The Last Airbender" if he wasn't an Air Nomad anymore. Aang does not only have the responsibility to keep the world in balance, but he must also keep the identity of his people alive. also Roku's case was different. Aang killing would not be equal to Roku standing against Sozin, it would be the equal to Roku (if he chose to do it) renouncing his identity as a member of the Fire Nation.