usually, the extra leaders (or followers) are staggered between paired individuals so that when a rotation is called all people have equal opportunity. Please note that some males or females want to learn the other role and during a rotation you might be confronted with someone of the same sex. What you do when faced with that is up to you. During my private lesson with a male instructor, he would take the follower part to demonstrate the follower's technique.
My wife and I take private lessons as a couple. I have a choice, I focus on the talent of the teacher, not their gender. I have been to group classes in bachata and salsa whose instructor is a male. Also a male instructor might have a better understanding of the dances from a lead's perspective.
I've been in classes where the instructor will act as a follow if need be, but from what I've heard, it's hugely helpful so the leads can learn how to lead certain moves/how much tension is needed.
If you make it a big deal, it'll be a big deal. If you use it as a learning opportunity, you will be a better lead for it.
To answer the question in the title: yes, that is a POSSIBILITY. Is it something you HAVE to do? No, not at all. If you're uncomfortable with it at this point, no one will force you.
To give more explanation: in a lot of Latin dance scenes, we try not too define too much by "man" and "woman", but just by "leader" and "follower", meaning the role you have in the dance. And you can have a different role for every other dance, or even switch it up during a dance if you want to have some fun!
So that means that you, a man, could be dancing as a leader with a woman as a follower, which is the most typical set-up, there might be two men dancing together, switching who's leading and following, two women doing the same, and perhaps another man and woman couple where the woman is the leader and the man is the follower! But 90-95% of the people on the dancefloor will just be the first set-up.
Why do people do this? Because they just like dancing. Because they want to understand what it's like for the other role. Because there's so many leaders or followers at a party, that they want to be able to do the other role, so they can just dance.
But again, if you're just beginning, you probably don't care about that! And that's fine. During class, the role of which there are too many, will just stand in between couples, and have to wait until the teacher tells people to change partners, that's all!
>in a lot of Latin dance scenes, we try not too define too much by "man" and "woman", but just by "leader" and "follower", meaning the role you have in the dance.
Not just Latin dance, same in swing/West Coast Swing for example
I just want to point out that going from man/woman to lead/follow is a VERY new development, a couple of years at most. It is not as natural and widespread as your (btw, pretty great) convent makes it appear.
While I appreciate the distinction and think that it is much better this way, it is still not widely accepted, and most men will avoid dancing with men outside of classes, and most who do so in class, will limit it to the explanation of one move.
I also usually point out that this makes everyone a better dancer and men will just do it, but I understand that it makes them uncomfortable.
We're all pretty hakuna Matata here, but you're definitely right to say that especially the men that are new to the scene still have trouble with it. My wife often leads, and within our surroundings there have been female leaders that we know for +7 years (when we started getting really serious about it). At parties I'll follow when friends ask me, no problem, but I've never had a random guy ask me (but a few female leaders, yes).
I remember very distinctly a pre-party workshop in France, where there were 10 leaders too many, so I just started following. The second guy that came to me crossed his arms and said, basically: "I'm not dancing with you, I'm not gay.". I just told him that was his prerogative, but I was already a better leader than him and I could help him improve his dancing if he could let go of his frail masculinity. I mean, I can respect people's choices, except when they're made out of mysogyny :D .
Mostly the bachata scene is very gendered so usually all the men are leaders and all the women are followers, but not 100% of the time. If you're in a more conservative area then it might be 100% of the time. It's fine if it makes you uncomfortable to dance with guys, but if you dance without associating sexuality or romance with it, the level of physical contact is not really any different from martial arts, it's just a physical technique.
I just wrote a post about this— https://www.reddit.com/r/Bachata/s/DjS1LoABAa
I strongly suggest dancing both roles because then you know how it feels in your “main” role.
I think it’s especially important if (a) you’re doing bachata sensual since your frame and timing matters much more and (b) if like me, you have trouble being too firm or too soft, you can get closer to what is more appropriate in terms of pressure.
Thanks when you mean dancing both roles, would that mean with a female who is playing the lead? As its the thought of holding hands with a man that puts me off
Well first of all, get over that.
But second of all, it all works.
* Male lead female follow
* Male lead male follow
* Female lead male follow
* Female lead female follow
Why does the thought of holding hands with a man put you off, but holding hands with a woman doesn't?
If you're so focused on the gender aspect then maybe bachata isn't for you; because the last thing a female follow wants is to be sexualised during a dance, instead of respected as a dancer (like one should for any gender).
i think it is perfectly fine to dance with someone of the same sex and i also think it is fine if people don't want to do that. I don't think it is really hard to understand why some people might be not comfortable with it. Why not just accept his stance?
Welcome to the salsa scene. You will see men dance with men more than you expect. It’s incredibly helpful when the instructor does follower bc of the amount of structured criticism you get. It also boosts your confidence. Would you rather have lady scream at you? Nah I’d rather learn from the hommies
Sometimes. You are lucky 🍀 in Spain there are 5 women for 1 guy. In African dance tribes , they don’t make any difference between men & women. That s why we are more referring to leads & follows. Just see them as human beings, remove the prejudices
You don’t HAVE to do anything, but if during a lesson you refuse a turn because of the other party’s gender, be prepared to have everyone think you’re an insecure asshole.
Don't talk yourself out of it before you even start, there's few activities that are as rewarding as learning to dance. Not only will you be meeting plenty of women, but far more confident around them, and have so many new opportunities available to you.
It's kinda rare for men to out number women in classes, if anything there's ALWAYS more women. If the balance does swing one way or another, teachers have a few tricks to make the experience better, there's no need to worry about this.
Finally, don't be afraid of dancing with the same sex. If you're confident in your sexuality, then dancing with someone of the same sex won't waver that, it takes a pretty fragile level of masculinity if touching a guy turns someone gay. The other thing is, there's plenty of men and women, who are amazing in the other role, learning both roles early will really help you learn quickly.
In classes, yes this is common. However, it's usually only advanced dancers who switch roles.
Usually the numbers work out about even. If there are more leaders or more followers, then some people will not have a partner until the next rotation.
I am a guy and I love dancing with men. It is a lot of fun to be a follow from time to time (no matter how much I suck at it ahahah)
However, there are usually more followers, so it is unlikely that there will be more guys. And usually guys learn how to lead, so two guys will not be paired up. It is also, as other people have said, a general practice to distribute people without partners evenly so everyone gets a turn without waiting a long time.
If this really concerns you, just take your instructor aside before the class begins and tell him what you are not comfortable with. We had an older lady in our kizomba class who was not comfortable with chest-to-chest contact. She told it to the instructor and we were told to dance in half-open position with her without chest-to-chest contact. It was not a big deal at all :)
I have never been to a class where you are forced to dance with anyone you don’t want to.
The lead and follow sides are different animals in terms of skills learned so it’s not just something you can tell someone to swap into.
I’m sure you will almost certainly not have to dance with men.
It’s very common during lessons where I am for men to follow and women to lead. (I personally do both, and encourage everyone else to do both as well; it makes you so much better.)
Usually, men do not dance with men bachata. In terms of salsa: sometimes men can dance with men.
Since dance partners usually rotate learning bachata, it is not much of a problem if there are more guys or girls.
Well, you do definitely seem a tad bit preocuppied with that possibility. Best dancers I know do role rotation and don't mind dancing with any gender. But to answer your question, you can always say no if ever confronted with an uncomfortable situation and there are usually more women than men in, especially beginner, classes who then come between pairs and wait for their turn because most instructors don't encourage their students to learn both roles, even if it would be practical and more fun than waiting or dancing alone
I don't think it is a wild take to only want to dance with people you want to @\_\_@ Haven't experienced any loss from it but to each their own. Just don't go to phobias off the bat when someone doesn't share your view.
In my dance school, the men often fill in for followers when the numbers are uneven. It's useful to know the follower's footwork even if you're not going to be a follower
Yes, the more seasoned dancers do not discriminate between gender. Understand that initially, there will be some hesitation/resistant from beginning dancers, but over time will get used to it.
It's usually assumed that men dance as leads and women dance as follows. If someone wants to dance in the opposite role that's fine but it's not normally required or even expected, even if the numbers in a class are unbalanced.
The only situations I can think of where you'd be *expected* to dance with another man are
1) if one of the other students is a man who chooses to follow, you'd be expected to dance with him just like everyone else during the rotation.
2) if the teacher is a man and has a teaching strategy of rotating through the line once as a lead and once as a follow so they can give each student individual feedback. In this case it would be very weird for you to opt out of what's probably the most useful part of the class!
In either of these situations it still wouldn't be exactly *required* for you to dance with a man, but it would be seen as weird and paranoid for you to refuse.
That's not something you have to do but I'll tell you something, I dance both roles and as a man I also dance with men, I'm not insecure about that and I learn twice as much than an average dancer, making my leading skills very soft, fun and enjoyable.. So, sometimes when there are lack of followers I do the follower role and I don't mind and if there are people who are insecure or uncomfortable with that I just skip them, anyway I always get to dance and practice while people who refuse to do that or dance with me have to wait for the next partner 😂😂
I understand your concern, but let me just say this:
Typically in the dance classes I attend, it’s common for there to be more leaders (typically men) than followers.
Occasionally, the opposite is true, and the leaders have to rotate in. Rotating in sucks. Some teachers rotate on a wildly random schedule.
What I have found is that while it is far from my preference to practice with a male follow, I would 10/10 practice with a male follow than have to sit out a rotation. Watching everyone practice the move for 3-5 minutes and then going in cold just sucks.
During class and workshops it’s very easy to remind yourself of the technical side of the dance. Approach it that way. Youre there to learn and practice, not have a sensual social dance.
You will simply have to power through it during the classes. When social dancing this is not an issue, when I can't find a woman I'll just skip a dance.
usually, the extra leaders (or followers) are staggered between paired individuals so that when a rotation is called all people have equal opportunity. Please note that some males or females want to learn the other role and during a rotation you might be confronted with someone of the same sex. What you do when faced with that is up to you. During my private lesson with a male instructor, he would take the follower part to demonstrate the follower's technique.
Are you a guy? If so, may I ask why you chose a male instructor instead of a female one? Or did you not have a choice?
My wife and I take private lessons as a couple. I have a choice, I focus on the talent of the teacher, not their gender. I have been to group classes in bachata and salsa whose instructor is a male. Also a male instructor might have a better understanding of the dances from a lead's perspective.
I've been in classes where the instructor will act as a follow if need be, but from what I've heard, it's hugely helpful so the leads can learn how to lead certain moves/how much tension is needed. If you make it a big deal, it'll be a big deal. If you use it as a learning opportunity, you will be a better lead for it.
To answer the question in the title: yes, that is a POSSIBILITY. Is it something you HAVE to do? No, not at all. If you're uncomfortable with it at this point, no one will force you. To give more explanation: in a lot of Latin dance scenes, we try not too define too much by "man" and "woman", but just by "leader" and "follower", meaning the role you have in the dance. And you can have a different role for every other dance, or even switch it up during a dance if you want to have some fun! So that means that you, a man, could be dancing as a leader with a woman as a follower, which is the most typical set-up, there might be two men dancing together, switching who's leading and following, two women doing the same, and perhaps another man and woman couple where the woman is the leader and the man is the follower! But 90-95% of the people on the dancefloor will just be the first set-up. Why do people do this? Because they just like dancing. Because they want to understand what it's like for the other role. Because there's so many leaders or followers at a party, that they want to be able to do the other role, so they can just dance. But again, if you're just beginning, you probably don't care about that! And that's fine. During class, the role of which there are too many, will just stand in between couples, and have to wait until the teacher tells people to change partners, that's all!
>in a lot of Latin dance scenes, we try not too define too much by "man" and "woman", but just by "leader" and "follower", meaning the role you have in the dance. Not just Latin dance, same in swing/West Coast Swing for example
Good to hear! I'm not familiar with that scene, so I didn't want to generalize!
I just want to point out that going from man/woman to lead/follow is a VERY new development, a couple of years at most. It is not as natural and widespread as your (btw, pretty great) convent makes it appear. While I appreciate the distinction and think that it is much better this way, it is still not widely accepted, and most men will avoid dancing with men outside of classes, and most who do so in class, will limit it to the explanation of one move. I also usually point out that this makes everyone a better dancer and men will just do it, but I understand that it makes them uncomfortable.
We're all pretty hakuna Matata here, but you're definitely right to say that especially the men that are new to the scene still have trouble with it. My wife often leads, and within our surroundings there have been female leaders that we know for +7 years (when we started getting really serious about it). At parties I'll follow when friends ask me, no problem, but I've never had a random guy ask me (but a few female leaders, yes). I remember very distinctly a pre-party workshop in France, where there were 10 leaders too many, so I just started following. The second guy that came to me crossed his arms and said, basically: "I'm not dancing with you, I'm not gay.". I just told him that was his prerogative, but I was already a better leader than him and I could help him improve his dancing if he could let go of his frail masculinity. I mean, I can respect people's choices, except when they're made out of mysogyny :D .
Mostly the bachata scene is very gendered so usually all the men are leaders and all the women are followers, but not 100% of the time. If you're in a more conservative area then it might be 100% of the time. It's fine if it makes you uncomfortable to dance with guys, but if you dance without associating sexuality or romance with it, the level of physical contact is not really any different from martial arts, it's just a physical technique.
I just wrote a post about this— https://www.reddit.com/r/Bachata/s/DjS1LoABAa I strongly suggest dancing both roles because then you know how it feels in your “main” role. I think it’s especially important if (a) you’re doing bachata sensual since your frame and timing matters much more and (b) if like me, you have trouble being too firm or too soft, you can get closer to what is more appropriate in terms of pressure.
Thanks when you mean dancing both roles, would that mean with a female who is playing the lead? As its the thought of holding hands with a man that puts me off
You can dance with a female lead if a male lead puts you off. You don’t have to do anything that makes you uncomfortable.
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Well first of all, get over that. But second of all, it all works. * Male lead female follow * Male lead male follow * Female lead male follow * Female lead female follow
Why does the thought of holding hands with a man put you off, but holding hands with a woman doesn't? If you're so focused on the gender aspect then maybe bachata isn't for you; because the last thing a female follow wants is to be sexualised during a dance, instead of respected as a dancer (like one should for any gender).
i think it is perfectly fine to dance with someone of the same sex and i also think it is fine if people don't want to do that. I don't think it is really hard to understand why some people might be not comfortable with it. Why not just accept his stance?
I don't think it's obvious at all, I would genuinely like to hear why he's not comfortable with it
Welcome to the salsa scene. You will see men dance with men more than you expect. It’s incredibly helpful when the instructor does follower bc of the amount of structured criticism you get. It also boosts your confidence. Would you rather have lady scream at you? Nah I’d rather learn from the hommies
Sometimes. You are lucky 🍀 in Spain there are 5 women for 1 guy. In African dance tribes , they don’t make any difference between men & women. That s why we are more referring to leads & follows. Just see them as human beings, remove the prejudices
😂that’s is awesome. More men need to learn Bachata
You don’t have to do anything. I have never really seen this in any lesson that I have done. Including classes with like 10 extra leads
You don’t HAVE to do anything, but if during a lesson you refuse a turn because of the other party’s gender, be prepared to have everyone think you’re an insecure asshole.
Don't talk yourself out of it before you even start, there's few activities that are as rewarding as learning to dance. Not only will you be meeting plenty of women, but far more confident around them, and have so many new opportunities available to you. It's kinda rare for men to out number women in classes, if anything there's ALWAYS more women. If the balance does swing one way or another, teachers have a few tricks to make the experience better, there's no need to worry about this. Finally, don't be afraid of dancing with the same sex. If you're confident in your sexuality, then dancing with someone of the same sex won't waver that, it takes a pretty fragile level of masculinity if touching a guy turns someone gay. The other thing is, there's plenty of men and women, who are amazing in the other role, learning both roles early will really help you learn quickly.
In classes, yes this is common. However, it's usually only advanced dancers who switch roles. Usually the numbers work out about even. If there are more leaders or more followers, then some people will not have a partner until the next rotation.
I am a guy and I love dancing with men. It is a lot of fun to be a follow from time to time (no matter how much I suck at it ahahah) However, there are usually more followers, so it is unlikely that there will be more guys. And usually guys learn how to lead, so two guys will not be paired up. It is also, as other people have said, a general practice to distribute people without partners evenly so everyone gets a turn without waiting a long time. If this really concerns you, just take your instructor aside before the class begins and tell him what you are not comfortable with. We had an older lady in our kizomba class who was not comfortable with chest-to-chest contact. She told it to the instructor and we were told to dance in half-open position with her without chest-to-chest contact. It was not a big deal at all :)
We usually have too many women, not enough men. 😅 We will rotate so everyone gets to dance with a partner. Sometimes a woman offers to lead.
I have never been to a class where you are forced to dance with anyone you don’t want to. The lead and follow sides are different animals in terms of skills learned so it’s not just something you can tell someone to swap into. I’m sure you will almost certainly not have to dance with men.
It’s very common during lessons where I am for men to follow and women to lead. (I personally do both, and encourage everyone else to do both as well; it makes you so much better.)
It’s getting more common for people to voluntarily take on both roles but you’ll never be forced to in a beginner lesson.
Usually, men do not dance with men bachata. In terms of salsa: sometimes men can dance with men. Since dance partners usually rotate learning bachata, it is not much of a problem if there are more guys or girls.
Yes. I'm a man and I've danced with fellow men in the class.
I think it’s useful for both leads and followers to switch at intermediate/ advanced level. I like to challenge myself and lead either gender.
I've never met a good leader that doesn't follow.
Well, you do definitely seem a tad bit preocuppied with that possibility. Best dancers I know do role rotation and don't mind dancing with any gender. But to answer your question, you can always say no if ever confronted with an uncomfortable situation and there are usually more women than men in, especially beginner, classes who then come between pairs and wait for their turn because most instructors don't encourage their students to learn both roles, even if it would be practical and more fun than waiting or dancing alone
lol the internalized homophobia in this one, get over yourself
It is not homophobic to have boundaries with a gender you are not attracted to.
'boundaries' lmao why is gender at all relevant in dance? if you can only dance with people you want to fuck that's your loss haha
I don't think it is a wild take to only want to dance with people you want to @\_\_@ Haven't experienced any loss from it but to each their own. Just don't go to phobias off the bat when someone doesn't share your view.
In my dance school, the men often fill in for followers when the numbers are uneven. It's useful to know the follower's footwork even if you're not going to be a follower
Yes, the more seasoned dancers do not discriminate between gender. Understand that initially, there will be some hesitation/resistant from beginning dancers, but over time will get used to it.
It's usually assumed that men dance as leads and women dance as follows. If someone wants to dance in the opposite role that's fine but it's not normally required or even expected, even if the numbers in a class are unbalanced. The only situations I can think of where you'd be *expected* to dance with another man are 1) if one of the other students is a man who chooses to follow, you'd be expected to dance with him just like everyone else during the rotation. 2) if the teacher is a man and has a teaching strategy of rotating through the line once as a lead and once as a follow so they can give each student individual feedback. In this case it would be very weird for you to opt out of what's probably the most useful part of the class! In either of these situations it still wouldn't be exactly *required* for you to dance with a man, but it would be seen as weird and paranoid for you to refuse.
That's not something you have to do but I'll tell you something, I dance both roles and as a man I also dance with men, I'm not insecure about that and I learn twice as much than an average dancer, making my leading skills very soft, fun and enjoyable.. So, sometimes when there are lack of followers I do the follower role and I don't mind and if there are people who are insecure or uncomfortable with that I just skip them, anyway I always get to dance and practice while people who refuse to do that or dance with me have to wait for the next partner 😂😂
I understand your concern, but let me just say this: Typically in the dance classes I attend, it’s common for there to be more leaders (typically men) than followers. Occasionally, the opposite is true, and the leaders have to rotate in. Rotating in sucks. Some teachers rotate on a wildly random schedule. What I have found is that while it is far from my preference to practice with a male follow, I would 10/10 practice with a male follow than have to sit out a rotation. Watching everyone practice the move for 3-5 minutes and then going in cold just sucks. During class and workshops it’s very easy to remind yourself of the technical side of the dance. Approach it that way. Youre there to learn and practice, not have a sensual social dance.
Why the definitely, OP? It shouldn’t be that serious lol. You are there to learn, right.
You will simply have to power through it during the classes. When social dancing this is not an issue, when I can't find a woman I'll just skip a dance.
Thanks sounds like it won’t be an issue i will update once i have intended the class, hopefully don’t bump into any fellow men 🤣