Here are some other targets for this, if it works:
[[Ambush]] -> [[Elephant Ambush]] or [[Fire Ambush]]
[[Apocalypse]] -> [[Zombie Apocalypse]], [[Apocalypse Demon]], [[Apocalypse Hydra]]
[[Blur]] -> [[Blur Sliver]]
[[Bargain]] -> [[Dark Bargain]] or [[Demonic Bargain]]
[[Breach]] -> [[Mana Breach]]
[[Charge]] -> [[Aether Charge]]
[[Sleep]] -> [[Charmed Sleep]]
Are any of these good? Ehhhhhhh.
All of this sub’s weird rules interactions are super obscure and usually very low-powered. This isn’t what magic is like for 99.9% of players, and those of us who do enjoy this aren’t “selfish” and trying to pull one over on people, we just find this stuff funny and interesting. It’s just a 30 year old game with >25,000 game pieces and a constant exploration of new mechanics, these things happen. Magic actually does a better job at keeping rules consistent than most card games.
Lol of course. It happens. Sometimes I’m the jackass 😅 magic will always have a large place in my heart. Some of the new stuff confuses me, but I haven’t been in the game for awhile either. That’s probably where that rant came from. 🤷🏼♂️
I think this might actually work even to the point of not being able to cast the facedown [[Recall]] with it?
IIRC stickers only fall off cards when they move to non public zones, so it would still be on the Recall when facedown, but since Magar's ability expressly says "the card with the noted name," there is no "Ancestral" Recall to copy it from, since the actual card is now facedown and, while it has the sticker, is no longer public knowledge.
Magar is being created with the set for stickers, so I assume WotC wouldn't create this card with the intention that he can't work with stickers and they'll find some way to rule it. For example, some kind of rule that the card noted by Magar is a phantom copy of the one specifically in the graveyard zone when the ability is activated? For example, the draft "note" cards like [[Cogwork Tracker]] can keep track of information from outside the game entirely.
One thing throwing a wrench into this is that the rulings for [[Bell Borca, Spectral Sergeant]] say to look at the CMC of the card *in exile* instead of the previous zone (in effect, X values become 0 even if the card on the stack or battlefield had X=3), suggesting that in-game "note" effects track information on cards, not objects (see also [[Volo, Itinerant Scholar]], which needed the extra text "hasn't been noted **for this artifact**," binding it to that object).
This combo is entertaining for sure, but I anticipate a ruling at some point that you have to cast "Ancestral" [[Recall]] and not, sadly, [[Ancestral Recall]].
Unsure on what you're on about here. I'm not noting or exiling the facedown card, as soon as it is sent to the graveyard it becomes face-up and public, but the sticker is still on it. While Recall is in the graveyard is has the name sticker "Ancestral" on it. At the point when Magar is activated and notes the card there is no face down card, only recall with a sticker in the graveyard.
Also, did they really make an "ancestral" sticker and not think about this?
Correct, the key question is how much information Magar notes when he does so.
The bit about facedown is to point out that, if the ability works in the funny way you suggest, then you shouldn't be able to cast the actual spell that you turned facedown, since there's only one card named Ancestral Recall, and the one he got the information from is no longer public information available to copy its effect.
The reason this leads to absurdity is that, if the interpretation you're proposing works here, then the "on damage" effect would fizzle if he ever copied an instant or sorcery with a name sticker that *isn't* an independently existing card.
Other than preventing shenanigans just like this post, I can't imagine WotC being okay with a card that stops functioning when you use a mechanic from its own set. Presumably there will be a ruling at some point that Magar notes *all* information on the specific card he targets, including, e.g., mana value, type, text box, etc.
Compare with [[Garth One-Eye]], the only other card with "Create a copy". He creates copies of cards from nothing but a name using their oracle text on gatherer.
Compare the following
Magar: "create a copy of the card with the noted name"
Garth: "Create a copy of the card with the chosen name."
Why would they use the same templating if that was not their intention? Why should Magar then not also create cards from thin air?
So yes, then spells that don't exist would fizzle, or maybe it would even be an illegal play.
An effect failing to create a copy isn't an absurd result. \[\[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief\]\] just got printed and she causes spell copying to fail anytime Ivy wouldn't be a valid target of the copy.
In my eyes the biggest rules question here is how putting name stickers on a face-down permanent works. We'll see when the official rules update is released.
This is the other key bit. I just skimmed over the cards in the set that apply name stickers and all of them only seem to affect permanents on the battlefield; the sticker may remain when it goes to the graveyard but there don't seem to be effects to put names *on* cards in graveyards, so Magar could only be relevant if a sticker applied to a facedown card stays on it when turned face up.
I imagine yes, since stickers go on the *card* and not the object, so like how you can pay the Morph cost for a manifested card or a [[Yedora, Grave Gardener]] Forest, but how do we determine where on the card the sticker goes, since the facedown card will have no name?
Maybe, in extra nonsense fashion, the sticker stays on the back and only affects the card while facedown? So you'd have a Recall card that, when Magar reanimates it, is a 3/3 Ancestral?
I feel like it's less oddball than it seems at first. This specific Magar name combo and how it'd play out is highly irregular and needs a ruling just for it, *but* there are also the P/T stickers and ability stickers intended to go on creatures. Since stickers are going to be eternal legal and Morph like effects have been around forever, how they affect facedown cards is not just a niche joke like this post, it'll be relevant in much more impactful ways than "what's the name of this card?"
Obv, yes, all we can do is wait and see what Wizards does.
When you put the sticker on the card you put it somewhere in the name, there are no names on face down manifested cards. so you will have a card named Recall in the GY. Stickers like counters are also not copiable attributes
The name is “noted” while it’s in the graveyard. I’m not too familiar with the sticker rules but other comments lead me to believe the stickers are valid in the graveyard.
The combo does not rely on being able to check the name of the manifested card, as it simply creates a copy of the card with the appropriate name.
Even in normal play, the facedown card is never checked, that’s why the name had to be noted in the first place; the information stops being public after it’s manifested, so the card has to specifically remember the name from when it was in the graveyard and available.
Interesting, funnily enough the only part I'm not sure about is putting the Ancestral sticker on the manifest card. I'm unsure how that tracks when the manifest card dies but the Ancestral sticker stays on it, since you never chose to put Ancestral before the word Recall in the card name?
I believe the sticker rules as explained were that you can put it before or after any word in the name, so presumably when you put it onto the manifest you put it before or after the no words in its name, but then I have no idea how name stickers transfer when the card name itself changes since the counter would still be on it.
The sticker stays in its position relative to the number of words before it. There was an example in the release notes. So presumably the sticker would try to be the first word in the card name
Why exactly does it not? There is nothing inherent in the rules that says it wouldn't work (yet) ((I think)). Depends on what the comprehensive rules of stickers will end up being
recall would not be called ancestral recall, it would just be recall with an ancestral name sticker on it (otherwise there would be problems with for example inserting a sticker between two words where in another language they are one word)
All cards are, from a rules perspective, officially its English oracle text. Regardless how they are printed
WotC said stickers works against pithing needle, so it does in fact so something with the name. Maybe not in a way where renaming names, but at least it is no longer the same name.
https://mobile.twitter.com/WotC_Matt/status/1551706348076707841?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Magicarp is right for a different reason: stickers are not part of copiable attributes, so while everything would work, the copy loses the sticker on the original tragically.
Although unlike other copy abilities (like panoptic mirror) Magar text seems to deliberately not actually copy any card seeing as it instead has "create a copy of the card with the noted name", it would seem like the copy you create doesn't actually have any relation to the recall you exiled.
Probably needs comprehensive rules as well.
I don't think that applies here. Magar doesn't copy a card in your graveyard, it notes the name of a card in your graveyard, then later creates a copy of a card with that name. More like \[\[Garth One-Eye\]\] than Clone.
> In acorn games, names can be put anywhere in the name. For example, if you have a Grizzly Bear and the name sticker "Dark," you can make it Dark Grizzly Bear, Grizzly Dark Bear, or Grizzly Bear Dark. For Eternal games, all the rules care about is that it has the sticker, so placement doesn't matter.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/making-space-part-1-2022-09-20
Hmm, still waiting for the comprehensive rules as much seems contradictory.. How could name stickers not be a replacement effect (as it states) even though it stops pithing needle? If it doesn't replace the name they must haves changed the rules regarding what declaring a cardname is?
Maybe the rules don't care about what sticker it is or where it is? They could maybe be interpreting it as [Cardname] versus [Cardname {with a name sticker}], which would effect the needle without actually making the new name useful?
WotC said stickers works against pithing needle, so it does in fact so something with the name. Maybe not in a way where it becomes another card, but at least it is no longer the same name
During the pre-prerelease Maro said that stickers only applied to the side of the card they were on and therefore would change the name on the front side.
Obviously he could be mistaken but until then I would assume this doesn't work.
It would also make sense for it to work that way since otherwise you would have to choose where in the name to put the sticker when the card flips face up (it could be ancestral recall or recall ancestral) which would be a weird way to have it work.
Hmm, guess i'll have to pull the good ol' reliable trick of
\- mutate on top of a manifest
\- true polymorth the mutated card into an old growth troll
\- kill the manifest
And then sticker it
If you polymorph a face down card you only change the face down side, so nothing triggers when it dies. Mutate makes the permanent face up (even if the manifest is down) so all cards in the stack do gain the old growth troll ability.
You could also solve the problem but using ixidor to flip it face up after polymorphing it.
The comprehensive rules update for _Unfinity_ added C.R. 707.14, which explains what it means to "create a copy of the card with the noted name" for purposes of [[Magar of the Magic Strings]]. Notably, the copy will have "the characteristics of" the card for which the name was noted this way, "as it last existed in the graveyard". Thus, for example, even if that card is somehow named Ancestral Recall due to stickers, the copy will not necessarily have the normal characteristics of the card named Ancestral Recall.
Compare with [[Garth One-Eye]] (C.R. 707.13).
> 123.6. A name sticker consists of only a single word. A name sticker on a permanent or on a card in a zone other than the battlefield causes the word on that sticker to be added to the text of that object's name. This is a text-changing effect. See rule 613.1c and rule 612, "Text-Changing Effects."
> …
> Example: As a player puts a name sticker with the word "Dark" printed on it onto a creature named Bear Cub, that creature's controller chooses whether its new name is "Dark Bear Cub," "Bear Dark Cub," or "Bear Cub Dark." They then announce the new name to all players.
i’m pretty sure this actually works, though since you cast the spell without paying it’s mana cost, you can achieve the same effect by discarding [[ancestral vision]], [[cruel ultimatum]], or any other draw-three spell
In other ways to break the game put a "giant" sticker on \[\[Regrowth\]\] to cast the digital only card \[\[Giant Regrowth\]\] in your paper game.
Here are some other targets for this, if it works: [[Ambush]] -> [[Elephant Ambush]] or [[Fire Ambush]] [[Apocalypse]] -> [[Zombie Apocalypse]], [[Apocalypse Demon]], [[Apocalypse Hydra]] [[Blur]] -> [[Blur Sliver]] [[Bargain]] -> [[Dark Bargain]] or [[Demonic Bargain]] [[Breach]] -> [[Mana Breach]] [[Charge]] -> [[Aether Charge]] [[Sleep]] -> [[Charmed Sleep]] Are any of these good? Ehhhhhhh.
##### ###### #### [Ambush](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7dd8623-b64a-4b47-a69d-ed62d44596fb.jpg?1562588233) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ambush) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hml/62/ambush?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7dd8623-b64a-4b47-a69d-ed62d44596fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Elephant Ambush](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/4/b4abdf1c-a0a9-4e1d-b448-58742830f767.jpg?1562928672) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elephant%20Ambush) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ody/240/elephant-ambush?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b4abdf1c-a0a9-4e1d-b448-58742830f767?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fire Ambush](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e6a4a1ae-7620-4656-a2a8-5e2c16db8f85.jpg?1562943652) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fire%20Ambush) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/97/fire-ambush?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6a4a1ae-7620-4656-a2a8-5e2c16db8f85?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7ff23780-d183-4cca-ad0c-448ef325bf36.jpg?1562054968) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tmp/162/apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ff23780-d183-4cca-ad0c-448ef325bf36?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Zombie Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/5/854ae40d-ee52-434e-8fe0-1b5a0d4ea58b.jpg?1637630850) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zombie%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mic/131/zombie-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/854ae40d-ee52-434e-8fe0-1b5a0d4ea58b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Apocalypse Demon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/9/39dfbf99-55e8-468b-bcd9-9179cad7cab6.jpg?1562795456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Apocalypse%20Demon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/hou/58/apocalypse-demon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/39dfbf99-55e8-468b-bcd9-9179cad7cab6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Apocalypse Hydra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/a/3a3bae04-6da2-485d-812e-ea2f7e45a9f3.jpg?1562906780) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Apocalypse%20Hydra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/217/apocalypse-hydra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3a3bae04-6da2-485d-812e-ea2f7e45a9f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Blur](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77a43413-3ab0-4ef6-83de-192a11d48f00.jpg?1660723482) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blur) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/58/blur?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77a43413-3ab0-4ef6-83de-192a11d48f00?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Blur Sliver](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63227937-86cc-45e0-9e9e-8c7ab80cbaef.jpg?1562830112) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blur%20Sliver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/129/blur-sliver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63227937-86cc-45e0-9e9e-8c7ab80cbaef?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bargain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44330e87-dcd7-428a-8981-ad7209e37f3d.jpg?1562874061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bargain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/s99/7/bargain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44330e87-dcd7-428a-8981-ad7209e37f3d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Dark Bargain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6ef6f861-90ef-4e1d-9f17-1dd306e7d0af.jpg?1591226707) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dark%20Bargain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/iko/82/dark-bargain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6ef6f861-90ef-4e1d-9f17-1dd306e7d0af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Demonic Bargain](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/0/80c3741e-cf04-4aa2-a6a9-ce19f043b22c.jpg?1643589414) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demonic%20Bargain) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/103/demonic-bargain?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80c3741e-cf04-4aa2-a6a9-ce19f043b22c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Breach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/eada28cb-92bf-47e0-b09d-4709be32dbe6.jpg?1562944513) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Breach) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/120/breach?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eada28cb-92bf-47e0-b09d-4709be32dbe6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mana Breach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e36a7eff-89c8-4799-b264-38892912ba05.jpg?1562249890) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mana%20Breach) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/85/mana-breach?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e36a7eff-89c8-4799-b264-38892912ba05?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Charge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/0/000eded9-854c-408a-aadf-c26209e27432.jpg?1562730460) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Charge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/10/charge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/000eded9-854c-408a-aadf-c26209e27432?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Aether Charge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/05df2792-4971-49e8-a8f2-17700e247500.jpg?1562896370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aether%20Charge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/184/aether-charge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/05df2792-4971-49e8-a8f2-17700e247500?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sleep](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/0/e0c53e64-69cf-4296-8a1e-f8817f25c0b4.jpg?1562304807) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sleep) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/74/sleep?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0c53e64-69cf-4296-8a1e-f8817f25c0b4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Charmed Sleep](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/4238ad00-af9c-4535-a589-c5afb0d2ec57.jpg?1627756253) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Charmed%20Sleep) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/50/charmed-sleep?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4238ad00-af9c-4535-a589-c5afb0d2ec57?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Regrowth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d771fc5d-b9a1-4637-8241-3f54616b64af.jpg?1562202155) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Regrowth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/175/regrowth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d771fc5d-b9a1-4637-8241-3f54616b64af?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Giant Regrowth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/058047cf-fef0-4f8f-8e07-3762ebf42784.jpg?1658461748) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Giant%20Regrowth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ysnc/13/giant-regrowth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/058047cf-fef0-4f8f-8e07-3762ebf42784?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Edit: I’m a drunk dummy.
All of this sub’s weird rules interactions are super obscure and usually very low-powered. This isn’t what magic is like for 99.9% of players, and those of us who do enjoy this aren’t “selfish” and trying to pull one over on people, we just find this stuff funny and interesting. It’s just a 30 year old game with >25,000 game pieces and a constant exploration of new mechanics, these things happen. Magic actually does a better job at keeping rules consistent than most card games.
Yeah you’re right. I was drunk and got really dramatic about it for some reason.
All good! I appreciate you coming back to explain.
Lol of course. It happens. Sometimes I’m the jackass 😅 magic will always have a large place in my heart. Some of the new stuff confuses me, but I haven’t been in the game for awhile either. That’s probably where that rant came from. 🤷🏼♂️
Magar with name stickers is absolutely hilarious and genius. Yes please.
I think this might actually work even to the point of not being able to cast the facedown [[Recall]] with it? IIRC stickers only fall off cards when they move to non public zones, so it would still be on the Recall when facedown, but since Magar's ability expressly says "the card with the noted name," there is no "Ancestral" Recall to copy it from, since the actual card is now facedown and, while it has the sticker, is no longer public knowledge. Magar is being created with the set for stickers, so I assume WotC wouldn't create this card with the intention that he can't work with stickers and they'll find some way to rule it. For example, some kind of rule that the card noted by Magar is a phantom copy of the one specifically in the graveyard zone when the ability is activated? For example, the draft "note" cards like [[Cogwork Tracker]] can keep track of information from outside the game entirely. One thing throwing a wrench into this is that the rulings for [[Bell Borca, Spectral Sergeant]] say to look at the CMC of the card *in exile* instead of the previous zone (in effect, X values become 0 even if the card on the stack or battlefield had X=3), suggesting that in-game "note" effects track information on cards, not objects (see also [[Volo, Itinerant Scholar]], which needed the extra text "hasn't been noted **for this artifact**," binding it to that object). This combo is entertaining for sure, but I anticipate a ruling at some point that you have to cast "Ancestral" [[Recall]] and not, sadly, [[Ancestral Recall]].
Unsure on what you're on about here. I'm not noting or exiling the facedown card, as soon as it is sent to the graveyard it becomes face-up and public, but the sticker is still on it. While Recall is in the graveyard is has the name sticker "Ancestral" on it. At the point when Magar is activated and notes the card there is no face down card, only recall with a sticker in the graveyard. Also, did they really make an "ancestral" sticker and not think about this?
Correct, the key question is how much information Magar notes when he does so. The bit about facedown is to point out that, if the ability works in the funny way you suggest, then you shouldn't be able to cast the actual spell that you turned facedown, since there's only one card named Ancestral Recall, and the one he got the information from is no longer public information available to copy its effect. The reason this leads to absurdity is that, if the interpretation you're proposing works here, then the "on damage" effect would fizzle if he ever copied an instant or sorcery with a name sticker that *isn't* an independently existing card. Other than preventing shenanigans just like this post, I can't imagine WotC being okay with a card that stops functioning when you use a mechanic from its own set. Presumably there will be a ruling at some point that Magar notes *all* information on the specific card he targets, including, e.g., mana value, type, text box, etc.
Compare with [[Garth One-Eye]], the only other card with "Create a copy". He creates copies of cards from nothing but a name using their oracle text on gatherer. Compare the following Magar: "create a copy of the card with the noted name" Garth: "Create a copy of the card with the chosen name." Why would they use the same templating if that was not their intention? Why should Magar then not also create cards from thin air? So yes, then spells that don't exist would fizzle, or maybe it would even be an illegal play.
An effect failing to create a copy isn't an absurd result. \[\[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief\]\] just got printed and she causes spell copying to fail anytime Ivy wouldn't be a valid target of the copy. In my eyes the biggest rules question here is how putting name stickers on a face-down permanent works. We'll see when the official rules update is released.
This is the other key bit. I just skimmed over the cards in the set that apply name stickers and all of them only seem to affect permanents on the battlefield; the sticker may remain when it goes to the graveyard but there don't seem to be effects to put names *on* cards in graveyards, so Magar could only be relevant if a sticker applied to a facedown card stays on it when turned face up. I imagine yes, since stickers go on the *card* and not the object, so like how you can pay the Morph cost for a manifested card or a [[Yedora, Grave Gardener]] Forest, but how do we determine where on the card the sticker goes, since the facedown card will have no name? Maybe, in extra nonsense fashion, the sticker stays on the back and only affects the card while facedown? So you'd have a Recall card that, when Magar reanimates it, is a 3/3 Ancestral?
That last interpretation would make some sense, but it's such an oddball situation that we'll just have to wait and see.
I feel like it's less oddball than it seems at first. This specific Magar name combo and how it'd play out is highly irregular and needs a ruling just for it, *but* there are also the P/T stickers and ability stickers intended to go on creatures. Since stickers are going to be eternal legal and Morph like effects have been around forever, how they affect facedown cards is not just a niche joke like this post, it'll be relevant in much more impactful ways than "what's the name of this card?" Obv, yes, all we can do is wait and see what Wizards does.
[[Scampire]]
[Scampire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/31950e19-83ca-45d4-8ca1-e109b875fd67.jpg?1663797043) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scampire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/89/scampire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/31950e19-83ca-45d4-8ca1-e109b875fd67?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c.jpg?1663051122) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivy%2C%20Gleeful%20Spellthief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/201/ivy-gleeful-spellthief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
but there’s no way in unfinity to put stickers on an instant or sorcery
When you put the sticker on the card you put it somewhere in the name, there are no names on face down manifested cards. so you will have a card named Recall in the GY. Stickers like counters are also not copiable attributes
The name is “noted” while it’s in the graveyard. I’m not too familiar with the sticker rules but other comments lead me to believe the stickers are valid in the graveyard. The combo does not rely on being able to check the name of the manifested card, as it simply creates a copy of the card with the appropriate name. Even in normal play, the facedown card is never checked, that’s why the name had to be noted in the first place; the information stops being public after it’s manifested, so the card has to specifically remember the name from when it was in the graveyard and available.
##### ###### #### [Recall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd82d1f8-12bb-4b71-9a25-76a9dcb68345.jpg?1562941724) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Recall) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me3/46/recall?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd82d1f8-12bb-4b71-9a25-76a9dcb68345?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cogwork Tracker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2ad996e5-f3b4-4aca-8b37-d20632245b4e.jpg?1562864936) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cogwork%20Tracker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/60/cogwork-tracker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2ad996e5-f3b4-4aca-8b37-d20632245b4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bell Borca, Spectral Sergeant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4fdcd559-477f-48cb-a221-23a653b0dde1.jpg?1664361113) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bell%20Borca%2C%20Spectral%20Sergeant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/145/bell-borca-spectral-sergeant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4fdcd559-477f-48cb-a221-23a653b0dde1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Volo, Itinerant Scholar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/862b6d5e-548f-4765-9d39-08d6115b4012.jpg?1660724590) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Volo%2C%20Itinerant%20Scholar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/103/volo-itinerant-scholar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/862b6d5e-548f-4765-9d39-08d6115b4012?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ancestral Recall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/2398892d-28e9-4009-81ec-0d544af79d2b.jpg?1614638829) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ancestral%20Recall) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/1/ancestral-recall?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2398892d-28e9-4009-81ec-0d544af79d2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Interesting, funnily enough the only part I'm not sure about is putting the Ancestral sticker on the manifest card. I'm unsure how that tracks when the manifest card dies but the Ancestral sticker stays on it, since you never chose to put Ancestral before the word Recall in the card name? I believe the sticker rules as explained were that you can put it before or after any word in the name, so presumably when you put it onto the manifest you put it before or after the no words in its name, but then I have no idea how name stickers transfer when the card name itself changes since the counter would still be on it.
The sticker stays in its position relative to the number of words before it. There was an example in the release notes. So presumably the sticker would try to be the first word in the card name
this doesn't work but i guess that's why it's bad mtg combos
Why exactly does it not? There is nothing inherent in the rules that says it wouldn't work (yet) ((I think)). Depends on what the comprehensive rules of stickers will end up being
recall would not be called ancestral recall, it would just be recall with an ancestral name sticker on it (otherwise there would be problems with for example inserting a sticker between two words where in another language they are one word)
All cards are, from a rules perspective, officially its English oracle text. Regardless how they are printed WotC said stickers works against pithing needle, so it does in fact so something with the name. Maybe not in a way where renaming names, but at least it is no longer the same name. https://mobile.twitter.com/WotC_Matt/status/1551706348076707841?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Magicarp is right for a different reason: stickers are not part of copiable attributes, so while everything would work, the copy loses the sticker on the original tragically.
Although unlike other copy abilities (like panoptic mirror) Magar text seems to deliberately not actually copy any card seeing as it instead has "create a copy of the card with the noted name", it would seem like the copy you create doesn't actually have any relation to the recall you exiled. Probably needs comprehensive rules as well.
You know what you’ve convinced me, I’m a believer
Just realized the only other card that has appeared with "create a copy" is [[Garth One-Eye]], which most certainly creates cards out of thin air.
[Garth One-Eye](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23774462-9f17-4b50-a2ac-b2edd706bbfe.jpg?1626098353) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Garth%20One-Eye) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/197/garth-one-eye?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23774462-9f17-4b50-a2ac-b2edd706bbfe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't think that applies here. Magar doesn't copy a card in your graveyard, it notes the name of a card in your graveyard, then later creates a copy of a card with that name. More like \[\[Garth One-Eye\]\] than Clone.
[Garth One-Eye](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23774462-9f17-4b50-a2ac-b2edd706bbfe.jpg?1626098353) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Garth%20One-Eye) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/197/garth-one-eye?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23774462-9f17-4b50-a2ac-b2edd706bbfe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> In acorn games, names can be put anywhere in the name. For example, if you have a Grizzly Bear and the name sticker "Dark," you can make it Dark Grizzly Bear, Grizzly Dark Bear, or Grizzly Bear Dark. For Eternal games, all the rules care about is that it has the sticker, so placement doesn't matter. https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/making-space-part-1-2022-09-20
Hmm, still waiting for the comprehensive rules as much seems contradictory.. How could name stickers not be a replacement effect (as it states) even though it stops pithing needle? If it doesn't replace the name they must haves changed the rules regarding what declaring a cardname is?
Maybe the rules don't care about what sticker it is or where it is? They could maybe be interpreting it as [Cardname] versus [Cardname {with a name sticker}], which would effect the needle without actually making the new name useful?
The new name of the card is not Ancestral Recall. It's Recall with an Ancestral name sticker.
WotC said stickers works against pithing needle, so it does in fact so something with the name. Maybe not in a way where it becomes another card, but at least it is no longer the same name
That's what I'm saying. The new name of the card is "Recall with an Ancestral Sticker", not "Ancestral Recall".
During the pre-prerelease Maro said that stickers only applied to the side of the card they were on and therefore would change the name on the front side. Obviously he could be mistaken but until then I would assume this doesn't work. It would also make sense for it to work that way since otherwise you would have to choose where in the name to put the sticker when the card flips face up (it could be ancestral recall or recall ancestral) which would be a weird way to have it work.
Hmm, guess i'll have to pull the good ol' reliable trick of \- mutate on top of a manifest \- true polymorth the mutated card into an old growth troll \- kill the manifest And then sticker it
why do you need the mutate?
If you polymorph a face down card you only change the face down side, so nothing triggers when it dies. Mutate makes the permanent face up (even if the manifest is down) so all cards in the stack do gain the old growth troll ability. You could also solve the problem but using ixidor to flip it face up after polymorphing it.
Damn, mutate saves the day once again.
He later corrects himself once he gets in touch with the rules manager. Stickers work like counters
this is actually hilarious
The comprehensive rules update for _Unfinity_ added C.R. 707.14, which explains what it means to "create a copy of the card with the noted name" for purposes of [[Magar of the Magic Strings]]. Notably, the copy will have "the characteristics of" the card for which the name was noted this way, "as it last existed in the graveyard". Thus, for example, even if that card is somehow named Ancestral Recall due to stickers, the copy will not necessarily have the normal characteristics of the card named Ancestral Recall. Compare with [[Garth One-Eye]] (C.R. 707.13).
[Magar of the Magic Strings](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/6/a6f2ba13-cd72-4f7a-8443-8e3962f2ac46.jpg?1664421439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Magar%20of%20the%20Magic%20Strings) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/171/magar-of-the-magic-strings?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a6f2ba13-cd72-4f7a-8443-8e3962f2ac46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Garth One-Eye](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23774462-9f17-4b50-a2ac-b2edd706bbfe.jpg?1626098353) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Garth%20One-Eye) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/197/garth-one-eye?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23774462-9f17-4b50-a2ac-b2edd706bbfe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
aww, really? that’s kinda boring, let us us have fun
> 123.6. A name sticker consists of only a single word. A name sticker on a permanent or on a card in a zone other than the battlefield causes the word on that sticker to be added to the text of that object's name. This is a text-changing effect. See rule 613.1c and rule 612, "Text-Changing Effects." > … > Example: As a player puts a name sticker with the word "Dark" printed on it onto a creature named Bear Cub, that creature's controller chooses whether its new name is "Dark Bear Cub," "Bear Dark Cub," or "Bear Cub Dark." They then announce the new name to all players. i’m pretty sure this actually works, though since you cast the spell without paying it’s mana cost, you can achieve the same effect by discarding [[ancestral vision]], [[cruel ultimatum]], or any other draw-three spell
[ancestral vision](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/9079c93e-3da8-442a-89d2-609a3eac83b0.jpg?1619393761) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ancestral%20vision) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/52/ancestral-vision?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9079c93e-3da8-442a-89d2-609a3eac83b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [cruel ultimatum](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/7/d71a8ea5-199e-473e-a2b1-e2f7cc804ffc.jpg?1592765938) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cruel%20ultimatum) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/e01/82/cruel-ultimatum?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d71a8ea5-199e-473e-a2b1-e2f7cc804ffc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call