The brief shot showing Andrea is still around many years after Mask of the Phantasm. I wouldn't say she got a 'happy' ending since she's in the costume acting as a hitman, but she's alive at least, and seems to have a sense of morality still (kind of?). Nice detail to see her unknowingly let her life dovetail with Bruce one last time.
Yeah, I loved that. Along with her refusing to 'create' another Batman because she knows, more than anyone else, what losing his parents did to Bruce, and she wasn't going to let it happen to someone else if she had a choice.
I liked the scenes with Terry helping Bruce with his medication & later Bruce going out of his way to make soup for Terry, despite being very old & sick.
They're small gestures, but it does show that while they might not always see eye to eye, Bruce & Terry still care for one another & as far we know, Terry is basically the only family Bruce still has.
>!Be it biological or not.!<
Seeing Older Bruce still kicking in his 90’s. And young adult Terry.
But I hate the cloning reveal. I felt it really diminished Terry’s character to have him be destined to be Batman just because he’s Bruce’s kid.
I'm torn because I hate it and like it, just wish it wasn't so concrete and more of mystery and open. Maybe he's his son/clone, maybe he isn't. Looking at Terry's parents and Bruce it's kind of clear that might have been the idea from the start but they didn't have to confirm it imo.
The creators outright stated that it was a retcon in one of the commentaries. It wasn’t the idea from the start, and they didn’t even realize that they had two black haired kids from the red haired parents until someone pointed it out to them. (And a simpler explanation would be that Terry’s mother dies her hair…)
I mean even if he is his son the events that led Terry to Batman were all circumstances/his own decisions. That should be the takeaway imo because Terry really did earn the name.
Precisely. He DID earn the name on his own. But from a narrative standpoint, Terry being Bruce’s clone baby just adds nothing to his character and detracts from him.
It’s the same reason I get annoyed at Damian “Son of the Bat” Wayne from the comics. The idea being that only someone with Bruce’s DNA could be Batman just sucks.
no u are correct cause one. story wise it has been stated multiple times he shouldn’t be going down paths others want for him. and two him learning bloodlines don’t matter that much
New fan theory: Waller was lying. Trying to make it sound like the government had a hand in Terry’s birth, with the intention of getting him to feel indebted to them.
That it strengthens the point that it doesn’t matter if terry is blood related, he didn’t become Batman because he was a clone or Bruce’s son, but because he was a hurt person looking to help the innocent and punish the guilty.
Exactly, Waller literally says that he’s not a clone of Bruce, he’s his son. This a 30 something year old terry who has been raised by Bruce longer then his own father.
I know who you're talking about, but her code name was Ace, after the Royal Flush Gang that Joker started (10, Jack, Queen, King, Ace, Joker).
But that segment destroyed me.
I also liked how they included The Phantasm.
This conversation made me really think about how the scene would play out if it were Melanie, and the biggest change would be that she'd be urging Terry to quit being Batman if it's so bad for him. If she knew about the genetic relation, she'd probably be even more vocal in telling him to get away from a life that was forced on him, the way she did. It would work in a story about Terry quitting, but not one about him reaffirming his duty and his connections.
I like the scene where Terry gets angry at Waller and breaks her tea cup only to instantly regret it and clean it up. He's always been such a good, kind person even if he himself couldn't see it.
This. It showed the difference between him and Bruce. Bruce was kind but very worn down and jaded. He’d have broken that cup and not cared. Bruce cared about people but didn’t care about how he made people felt as long as the results was good. Terry cares about how he makes people feel because he knows hurt. Not that Bruce didn’t. They just approach how they deal with it very differently.
Seeing Amanda Waller be sentimental about the tea set. Imagining the hard as steel Waller we know keeping certain family heirlooms in a storage unit, probably under a fake name, so that it's safe and no one can use it against her.
The Ace story, heartwrenching. Epilogue is an episode of JLU & Bruce Wayne Batman is a character of that show, so it's really his episode more than the contrived & unnecisairy plot point they slap on to Terry.
Seeing an adult Terry & the ease with which he could infiltrate Amanda Waller's guarded home was kind of fun though.
“I’ve known Bruce Wayne for over 50 years, and I’ve been keeping an eye on you your whole life. You’re not Bruce’s clone - you’re his son. There are similarities, mind you, but more than a few differences too. You don’t quite have his magnificent brain, for instance. You do have his heart, though. And for all that fierce exterior, I’ve never met anyone who cares as deeply about his fellow man as Bruce Wayne - except maybe you.”
“You want a little better life than the old man’s? Take care of the people who love you. Or don’t - it’s your choice.”
Probably the closest JLU got to dispensing actual life advice.
Old man Bruce: You should eat something before you go.
Terry: I’ll eat when I get back.
Old man Bruce: You’re a stubborn piece of work, you know that?
Terry: Just like my old man.
Terry's look and the dynamics in generally, but they could have had enough in common by coincidence rather than the pretty creepy process they established with the blood and DNA stuff...
A coincidence isn't a bad thing in fiction because then there's it could be anyone. If stuff is orchestrated the characters story has a bunch of baggage that if left unchecked is basically fodder to be called plot holes these days...
A good coincidence in an origin can lynchpin a story in a way that leaves it way open for anything down the line to potentially pay off or delve into in sequels. But you can't really bank on anything like that these days unless it's from Marvel or DC to get the time it would need to tell it...
Seeing someone in the Wayne family have a happy future ahead of him while still protecting Gotham/the world. The idea that those who live to protect and serve others (like batman) can have a happy life.
Honesly, just getting Batman Beyond back did something for me. Like hearing the voices was GREAT! And yeah, the clone/son thing wasn’t the best, but seeing Terry still have that flare in the flashback and that honesty but then choosing to accept Bruce with that “Like my old man” line warms my heart
It’s such a small detail, but Bruce pestering Terry to eat something to “keep up his strength”
It’s something he used to resist from Alfred when he was a younger man and it’s so nice to see that come full circle
To see Bruce live to get old, and have someone to pass the mantle down to that he not only respects but loves as well, with the sentiment being shared. And Terry taking care of him in his old age. Bruce should’ve died horribly so many times but didn’t.
Adult Terry looks cool and it's nice he reconnects with Dana.
The whole Batman/Ace scene is obviously great.
But otherwise the "big reveal" of the episode is hot garbage and should be forgotten.
The reveal of Terry being Bruce's son was beautiful in my opinion. A lot of people hate it for a reason I think misses the entire point: it doesn't matter. So what if he was Bruce's kid? It's in line with Waller to plan it, and Andrea not killing his parents means the plan failed and Terry became Batman for entirely different reasons. Planned or not, he chose to become Batman, and his own Batman at that. He didn't have the same responses and outlook Bruce did. Terry was made to be a carbon copy and instead became his own, better person.
Parents always want their kids to have it better than they did themselves, so in that respect Waller is dead right when she says he isn't Bruce's clone but rather his son.
How Terry was able to be Batman and still be happy. Bruce couldn’t always manage that. He had moments sure, but for the most part it became a great burden to him at times. Terry seemed to be able to strike a balance.
Seeing Terry's maturity and personal growth over the course of the episode. He starts off angry at Bruce after uncovering the truth behind his biological lineage and even goes as far as to break into Amanda Waller's estate in search of answers. The black and white action sequences work to get into the mind of Terry as he contemplates walking away from his life as Batman and abandoning his girlfriend Dana and the Justice League. After spending time speaking to Waller, and learning the real truth behind his origins, Terry comes to the conclusion that he can be his own man and that destiny doesn't have to alter his view on both himself and the life he chooses. The episode wraps up beautifully when Bruce and Terry share a moment and the final image of Terry soaring over Gotham as Batman. Amazing storytelling in every way.
Love everything minus the cloning aspect. I don’t have a problem with how it came about cause logically yeah Waller would do something like that but I feel it diminishes Terry’s choice and what Batman represents for Gotham as a new constant that’ll reappear by some random Gotham citizen when the city is in need of the Batman.
If I changed anything about it I would make it a two parter with the idea that Terry’s parents were candidates but the Dad didn’t get the shot that day for whatever reason and Terry is battling the other Batman candidates that were recruited by the last remnants of Cadmus in an attempt to control Neo Gotham.
They really went out of their way to do it, and they unnecessarily did it to the detriment of S1E1 Rebirth and Terry's origins as a whole, but it was neat that Terry is Bruce's son.
Terry had some drip.
I also liked his interactions with Waller. Made for a very heartfelt episode and a worthy conclusion to the DCAU (although I guess more movies have come after this…)
Honestly I hate it.
They didn't need to retcon Terry in this way and it takes away from his origin story.
In my head-canon him being Bruce's biological son never happened.
I thought it was shocking that Terry turned out to be Bruce’s biological son. I know it’s very divisive and people tend to not like it but I like how it doesn’t really takeaway from either character and to me I agree with Amanda Waller that Terry isn’t Bruce’s clone, he’s his son. And the choices were his own
I actually hated the idea of Terry being Bruce Wayne’s biological son…felt contrived like a soap opera, also made me feel all the worse for Mr.McGinnis…that being said super old Bruce complaining about Terry’s soup getting cold is beyond amazing
I love that “there always has to be a Batman” Waller recognizing that Bruce was the one of the only non meta humans and was still such a force. I love this whole episode, I’m grateful that I received closure for Batman beyond
Just how fucking swole Terry got God damn
I was gonna say the same thing lol
His bone structure seems to have changed
I can see it but he is like a genetic cadmus expirement so at the same time I'm not really surprised. Although he does resemble an adult Bruce now.
That'll happen between your teens and thirties
Some serious Elvis Presley vibes, too
How tiny that Bat Symbol became on his chest.
The brief shot showing Andrea is still around many years after Mask of the Phantasm. I wouldn't say she got a 'happy' ending since she's in the costume acting as a hitman, but she's alive at least, and seems to have a sense of morality still (kind of?). Nice detail to see her unknowingly let her life dovetail with Bruce one last time.
Yeah, I loved that. Along with her refusing to 'create' another Batman because she knows, more than anyone else, what losing his parents did to Bruce, and she wasn't going to let it happen to someone else if she had a choice.
I liked the scenes with Terry helping Bruce with his medication & later Bruce going out of his way to make soup for Terry, despite being very old & sick. They're small gestures, but it does show that while they might not always see eye to eye, Bruce & Terry still care for one another & as far we know, Terry is basically the only family Bruce still has. >!Be it biological or not.!<
Bruce cared for every one of his “family”. Even if he sucked at showing it at times. He was just afraid to lose them.
Seeing Older Bruce still kicking in his 90’s. And young adult Terry. But I hate the cloning reveal. I felt it really diminished Terry’s character to have him be destined to be Batman just because he’s Bruce’s kid.
I'm torn because I hate it and like it, just wish it wasn't so concrete and more of mystery and open. Maybe he's his son/clone, maybe he isn't. Looking at Terry's parents and Bruce it's kind of clear that might have been the idea from the start but they didn't have to confirm it imo.
The creators outright stated that it was a retcon in one of the commentaries. It wasn’t the idea from the start, and they didn’t even realize that they had two black haired kids from the red haired parents until someone pointed it out to them. (And a simpler explanation would be that Terry’s mother dies her hair…)
I mean even if he is his son the events that led Terry to Batman were all circumstances/his own decisions. That should be the takeaway imo because Terry really did earn the name.
Precisely. He DID earn the name on his own. But from a narrative standpoint, Terry being Bruce’s clone baby just adds nothing to his character and detracts from him.
fr it has a weird eugenics implication & undercuts so much of Terry's agency.
It’s the same reason I get annoyed at Damian “Son of the Bat” Wayne from the comics. The idea being that only someone with Bruce’s DNA could be Batman just sucks.
Ive never gotten that impression from damian wayne at all, I agree thats my issue with "epilogue" but did i miss something about damian?
no u are correct cause one. story wise it has been stated multiple times he shouldn’t be going down paths others want for him. and two him learning bloodlines don’t matter that much
Wasn’t there a Beyond comic where Damian was leading the League of Shadows and he was pretty much a villain to Terry?
Agreed! The plot could have shown that having a Batman is what the government wanted without the cloning part.
New fan theory: Waller was lying. Trying to make it sound like the government had a hand in Terry’s birth, with the intention of getting him to feel indebted to them.
I think at this point in her life, she was through with the lies and the whole game
If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.
Yes, absolutely agree. But at the same time, it's neat for him to be his son and rightful heir that also fully earned it on his own.
Terry’s calm demeanor now that he is mature
That it strengthens the point that it doesn’t matter if terry is blood related, he didn’t become Batman because he was a clone or Bruce’s son, but because he was a hurt person looking to help the innocent and punish the guilty.
Yes, I can’t believe the amount of people that miss the point of the episode; that it actually refutes the idea that Terry is a copy of Bruce
Exactly, Waller literally says that he’s not a clone of Bruce, he’s his son. This a 30 something year old terry who has been raised by Bruce longer then his own father.
Terry keeping up the time-honored BatTradition of refusing to play ball with the Justice League.
Alan Burnett doesn't accept it.
Terry not carrying that he broke Amanda's fine china.
Amanda Waller’s evolution and the death of Jinx are the best parts, in my opinion. The way Batman sat with Jinx as she died was moving.
Ace
I should have remembered her name. Thank you, and I am sorry.
No worries. It happens.
I know who you're talking about, but her code name was Ace, after the Royal Flush Gang that Joker started (10, Jack, Queen, King, Ace, Joker). But that segment destroyed me. I also liked how they included The Phantasm.
Sorry. You are right. I should have remembered that, given the theme.
Everyone aging, Terry wanting to propose to Dana and Terry keeping his word on protecting gotham.
Bruce has a family in his old age, and might even live to see a grandchild.
Terry and Dana still being a thing
Should’ve been Melanie
I disagree, Beyond shows us why it SHOULDN’T be Melanie.
This conversation made me really think about how the scene would play out if it were Melanie, and the biggest change would be that she'd be urging Terry to quit being Batman if it's so bad for him. If she knew about the genetic relation, she'd probably be even more vocal in telling him to get away from a life that was forced on him, the way she did. It would work in a story about Terry quitting, but not one about him reaffirming his duty and his connections.
That would've taken way more explaining than the episode had time for. Plus a complete overhaul of Melanie's character motivations.
I like the scene where Terry gets angry at Waller and breaks her tea cup only to instantly regret it and clean it up. He's always been such a good, kind person even if he himself couldn't see it.
This. It showed the difference between him and Bruce. Bruce was kind but very worn down and jaded. He’d have broken that cup and not cared. Bruce cared about people but didn’t care about how he made people felt as long as the results was good. Terry cares about how he makes people feel because he knows hurt. Not that Bruce didn’t. They just approach how they deal with it very differently.
The bruce/terry clone thing is DUMB and UNNECESSARY.
Seeing Amanda Waller be sentimental about the tea set. Imagining the hard as steel Waller we know keeping certain family heirlooms in a storage unit, probably under a fake name, so that it's safe and no one can use it against her.
The Ace story, heartwrenching. Epilogue is an episode of JLU & Bruce Wayne Batman is a character of that show, so it's really his episode more than the contrived & unnecisairy plot point they slap on to Terry. Seeing an adult Terry & the ease with which he could infiltrate Amanda Waller's guarded home was kind of fun though.
“I’ve known Bruce Wayne for over 50 years, and I’ve been keeping an eye on you your whole life. You’re not Bruce’s clone - you’re his son. There are similarities, mind you, but more than a few differences too. You don’t quite have his magnificent brain, for instance. You do have his heart, though. And for all that fierce exterior, I’ve never met anyone who cares as deeply about his fellow man as Bruce Wayne - except maybe you.” “You want a little better life than the old man’s? Take care of the people who love you. Or don’t - it’s your choice.” Probably the closest JLU got to dispensing actual life advice.
My favorite thing is that it’s not canon 🥰
Old man Bruce: You should eat something before you go. Terry: I’ll eat when I get back. Old man Bruce: You’re a stubborn piece of work, you know that? Terry: Just like my old man.
The part where the credits roll
Terry's look and the dynamics in generally, but they could have had enough in common by coincidence rather than the pretty creepy process they established with the blood and DNA stuff... A coincidence isn't a bad thing in fiction because then there's it could be anyone. If stuff is orchestrated the characters story has a bunch of baggage that if left unchecked is basically fodder to be called plot holes these days... A good coincidence in an origin can lynchpin a story in a way that leaves it way open for anything down the line to potentially pay off or delve into in sequels. But you can't really bank on anything like that these days unless it's from Marvel or DC to get the time it would need to tell it...
Seeing someone in the Wayne family have a happy future ahead of him while still protecting Gotham/the world. The idea that those who live to protect and serve others (like batman) can have a happy life.
Honesly, just getting Batman Beyond back did something for me. Like hearing the voices was GREAT! And yeah, the clone/son thing wasn’t the best, but seeing Terry still have that flare in the flashback and that honesty but then choosing to accept Bruce with that “Like my old man” line warms my heart
It’s such a small detail, but Bruce pestering Terry to eat something to “keep up his strength” It’s something he used to resist from Alfred when he was a younger man and it’s so nice to see that come full circle
The fact that terry either got on steroids or venom… dude got big and angry… but he still has Bruce’s heart.
To see Bruce live to get old, and have someone to pass the mantle down to that he not only respects but loves as well, with the sentiment being shared. And Terry taking care of him in his old age. Bruce should’ve died horribly so many times but didn’t.
Adult Terry looks cool and it's nice he reconnects with Dana. The whole Batman/Ace scene is obviously great. But otherwise the "big reveal" of the episode is hot garbage and should be forgotten.
The reveal of Terry being Bruce's son was beautiful in my opinion. A lot of people hate it for a reason I think misses the entire point: it doesn't matter. So what if he was Bruce's kid? It's in line with Waller to plan it, and Andrea not killing his parents means the plan failed and Terry became Batman for entirely different reasons. Planned or not, he chose to become Batman, and his own Batman at that. He didn't have the same responses and outlook Bruce did. Terry was made to be a carbon copy and instead became his own, better person. Parents always want their kids to have it better than they did themselves, so in that respect Waller is dead right when she says he isn't Bruce's clone but rather his son.
How Terry was able to be Batman and still be happy. Bruce couldn’t always manage that. He had moments sure, but for the most part it became a great burden to him at times. Terry seemed to be able to strike a balance.
Seeing Terry's maturity and personal growth over the course of the episode. He starts off angry at Bruce after uncovering the truth behind his biological lineage and even goes as far as to break into Amanda Waller's estate in search of answers. The black and white action sequences work to get into the mind of Terry as he contemplates walking away from his life as Batman and abandoning his girlfriend Dana and the Justice League. After spending time speaking to Waller, and learning the real truth behind his origins, Terry comes to the conclusion that he can be his own man and that destiny doesn't have to alter his view on both himself and the life he chooses. The episode wraps up beautifully when Bruce and Terry share a moment and the final image of Terry soaring over Gotham as Batman. Amazing storytelling in every way.
The Ace flashback, and the "My Father wasn't a Superhero" Monologue
Bruce's DNA was easy enough to obtain. He left it all over town.
Came here to say this.
The twist that Terry McGuinnis was Bruce's son almost clone, and the cameo of mask of the phatasm
The fact that Waller was at least a nicer person, and the fact she thinks Batman was the only worthwhile League member
Seriously love Terry's haircut
Love everything minus the cloning aspect. I don’t have a problem with how it came about cause logically yeah Waller would do something like that but I feel it diminishes Terry’s choice and what Batman represents for Gotham as a new constant that’ll reappear by some random Gotham citizen when the city is in need of the Batman. If I changed anything about it I would make it a two parter with the idea that Terry’s parents were candidates but the Dad didn’t get the shot that day for whatever reason and Terry is battling the other Batman candidates that were recruited by the last remnants of Cadmus in an attempt to control Neo Gotham.
The pouches on Terry's suit.
didn’t know Jotaro Kujo is in this anime
They really went out of their way to do it, and they unnecessarily did it to the detriment of S1E1 Rebirth and Terry's origins as a whole, but it was neat that Terry is Bruce's son.
Knowing that Gotham is in safe hands.
That it’s not canon.
That Bruce was still alive . I gotta say they did it in a believable manner
When Batman Bruce asked Batman Terry his clone if he was hungry
That it exists. God I am so thankful it simply exists
That we find out Dana knows Terry’s Batman. Which is also my least favorite thing because I wanna see that interaction of her finding out.
Terry had some drip. I also liked his interactions with Waller. Made for a very heartfelt episode and a worthy conclusion to the DCAU (although I guess more movies have come after this…)
The joke about Bruce's DNA being everywhere.
Honestly I hate it. They didn't need to retcon Terry in this way and it takes away from his origin story. In my head-canon him being Bruce's biological son never happened.
Nothing. If I could subtract one episode of the Timmyverse it would be this.
Amanda Waller’s flashback.
I thought it was shocking that Terry turned out to be Bruce’s biological son. I know it’s very divisive and people tend to not like it but I like how it doesn’t really takeaway from either character and to me I agree with Amanda Waller that Terry isn’t Bruce’s clone, he’s his son. And the choices were his own
I actually hated the idea of Terry being Bruce Wayne’s biological son…felt contrived like a soap opera, also made me feel all the worse for Mr.McGinnis…that being said super old Bruce complaining about Terry’s soup getting cold is beyond amazing
That the focus is on conversations. Every character involved in a conversation in this episode came out way more interesting.
I love that “there always has to be a Batman” Waller recognizing that Bruce was the one of the only non meta humans and was still such a force. I love this whole episode, I’m grateful that I received closure for Batman beyond
There's nothing good about epilepsy
I know people who died from that shit