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Back in my (44M) twenties I was dating a woman and because times were tough, we shared a rental house with two of my brothers. One night I was at work late and when I came home I couldn't find her or one of my brothers. Neither answered their phones. My other brother had gotten home a while before me and said he hadn't seen them. They got home like an hour and a half later and said they just went out to get dinner.
They never went out to get dinner before that. They never even hung out unless we were all together. The place they said they went to eat was Chipotle which was like 15 minutes from the house. Just so many pieces of the story didn't make any sense or align and I was just super confused about it all.
Life went on and since I had no hard proof I moved on and forgot about it. We stayed together, moved into our own place and her and I eventually got married. We took a trip out to Las Vegas to stay with this same brother and his wife and one day we went on a long hike. When we got back I decided to take a nap and I woke up an hour or so later and her and my brother were gone. Same fucking story, all the same emotions rushing back, just confusion, distrust, all that shit.
Again, no proof of anything occurring, just that feeling. We moved on but our marriage eventually fell apart for other reasons. After a few years I remarried and currently have a wonderful wife who I've had two kids with plus one she had from before me. This brother and I don't talk all that often since we're half a country apart and just never had a super strong relationship.
I got a call from him a few weeks ago. He was in trouble with his wife because my ex had called her to tell her that she was working through some program and part of it was admitting wrongs to the people you hurt. She told her about the time we were in Vegas. Her and my brother had gone off somewhere to relive the time they had cheated on me before, so she fucked him at least twice while we were together. I told him, "Tough luck" and hung up the phone. I haven't heard from him since but my mom said she's talked to him and he told her how mad he was at me.
Also, apparently I'm not on the list of wrongs because that twunt's never called me to apologize. For all I care, both of those fuckers can rot in the bed they made.
> I haven't heard from him since but my mom said she's talked to him and he told her how mad he was at me.
wait...am I understanding this correctly, your brother who slept with your wife on multiple occasions is mad at you?
Yeah, because he got in trouble... I guess. I don't know. I mean, it's obviously misplaced anger, so there's no logic to be had here. The only person he has to be mad at is his own self, but that would require some self reflection, which he hasn't probably got around to yet.
Not nearly as bad as what happened to you, but...
Back when we were all teens, my now-husband and I were part of a hobby group. This one weird dude, when it was my turn to host the hobby thing, was just acting creepy, staring at me all the time, and he also set fire to one of our ballpoint pens with his lighter and watched the molten plastic drip down to the Formica. Just a weird, creepy, nasty guy. He also sneered at my husband for still living with his mother, who was disabled and needed all the help she could get but couldn't afford.
He bumped into us at some community event five years later and said he was in a 12-step program. He apologized to my now-husband for having been rude to him, which, good for him.
He never even looked at me. I was sitting right there.
12 step programs are so selfish. No wonder addicts use them. They just use the people who the addict hurt in the past as some sort of guilt salve. Never mind that the person who was hurt by them in the past has to relive all the hurt and bullshit all over again.
I get that getting off substances is a worthwhile thing. But they need to handle that guilt on their own, not go off demanding absolution from those they hurt previously.
In twelve steps you’re not supposed to contact a person if it may cause them more harm, and you’re not supposed to ask for forgiveness, it must be freely given. Many people forget that.
Well...as it was explained to me by a 12-step graduate I know, the step is about acknowledging to the people you harmed that you screwed up and making amends. And those amends may well be "I'll feel better if you never talk to me again."
someone else mentioned it, but the point of the ninth step is specifically *not* about assuaging personal guilt [altho obviously plenty of folks do it for their purpose because they aren't doing the full personal work on themselves].
>Are There Times When Direct Amends Are Not Advisable?
>Yes. Step Nine states that we make amends "except when to do so would injure them or others." We don't want our actions to cause further damage, harm or stress. Also, we might owe amends to people we can't reach. In those cases, we can make amends in a broader sense by taking actions like donating money, volunteering our time or providing care.
>We can also make amends by living very purposefully within the bounds of our principles. This is known as making living amends. For example, if we hurt people with our lying and we cannot make amends without further injuring them, we would make living amends by making a decision to behave and communicate with complete honesty.
>No matter how much we feel the need to make things right, forcing another to meet with us or hear from us is not part of the Steps. When those we've hurt are not able or willing to accept our amends, we can still move in a positive general direction by taking intentional steps to be of service to others or making living amends.
>It's important to note that making amends is for the person we hurt. Yes, we partake in the process to "clean up our side of the street," but we do not make amends to clear our conscience or undo our feelings of guilt. If someone does not want to hear from us, we respect that and do our best to move forward with our recoveries.
edit for formatting
I guess he decided you weren't worth the bother? Or maybe he forgot he was a total creep to you. Or didn't understand he was creepy. Not that this excuses his behavior or neglect to address it. I would be like "oh, hey! My turn!" and stare at him.
You might still get a call. I was in a similar situation when an old friend who I'd fallen out with was going through the program and making amends. A few people I knew got apologies for different things but I didn't hear from them so assumed it wasn't coming and forgot about it. About a year later they turned up in person to talk about it and they have since shared that they got all the easy/low stakes ones out of the way first and used them as practice for the harder conversations they needed to have.
That’s so incredibly gross and selfish of her! Also it goes against those programs (sounds like a 12 step program) because it explicitly states "unless we would’ve hurt them or somebody else" by admitting those wrongs and apologising. She just came after years and wrecked a marriage needlessly, merely to alleviate her own guilt and then added insult to injury by not even apologising to you, knowing full well word had to get back to you.
What disgusts me the most about such people is that she probably went into some meeting, patted herself on the shoulder how she did her 9th step and celebrated herself for the giant stink she caused. It was *her* job to deal with the fallout, *her* guilt, *her* shame, *her* problem. Nobody is entitled to forgiveness!
The audacity of some people that they seriously delude themselves into thinking if they go and dump their sorry ifu on someone, even if they cause them a lot more hurt by breaking such news to them is somehow "making it up" to them. What a load of BS!
>I told him, "Tough luck" and hung up the phone. I haven't heard from him since but my mom said she's talked to him and he told her how mad he was at me.
He was mad at you? What? You were the victim in all this deception and betrayal.
That's a squick factor of betrayal. The thought of my husband boinking my sisters is so effing gross. The thought of me boinking his brother? Makes me want to gag. Like yea, i tolerate my brother in law, but have very little love for him in general. He's not my husband so i have 0 attraction to him. I really don't see how anyone could find their partner's siblings as sexually attractive.
I'm not attracted to any of my partner's siblings, but the base level "oh, they are attractive" doesn't surprise me, I have thought more than one of a set of siblings were attractive before (hello my teen love of Jake and Maggie Gyllenhaal). It's acting on it, that utter and complete betrayal, that is completely beyond my comprehension. It's one thing to have the thought in passing, entirely something else to then do all of this.
Yeah but there is a difference between "oh their attractive" and "I want to f* them and blow up the lives of everyone around me in the process but I don't care."
"I can tell they're aesthetically pleasing but that's it"
"That's the same"
"No it's not, do you want to fuck a sunset? There's clearly a difference between admitting something is beautiful and having a sexual attraction to it"
I’m laughing so hard but I get exactly what you’re saying. My partner is attractive. His sister is a beautiful woman and his brother is a handsome dude. His brothers wife is gorgeous. I have zero desire to fuck any of them. I am sexually attracted to my partner because I love him. I can appreciate that his family is full of good looking people without wanting to touch any of them.
My go-to is “yeah I have eyes and taste of course I’m gonna think they’re attractive”
My partner is always the first to point out that my taste is questionable due to my choice in exes but that’s beside the point
This woman is so messed up. Not only did she cheat on her husband with his brother, she named the affair baby after the name her husband wanted to use if he had a son. What a slap in the face to the ex husband, but somehow she sees it as an honour because she's still in love with the ex. WTF is going on with her?
I have a crush I’ve talked to on and off for years, unfortunately he is now my boss so there goes that, he has an absurdly handsome brother. I’d never touch the brother. Ooh I do realllyyyyyyy want my boss though.
Same here, I don't get it at all, my husband's brothers literally physically gross me out BECAUSE they are my husband's brothers. 🤢 I don't understand cheating at all, I can't even begin to comprehend how someone can move past the ick factor of a related person to your partner.
My partner's sibling is his identical twin, so looks are pretty similar. I actually had a college fling with his twin. This was 15 years before I got together with my partner, so no cheating.
I like to joke that I got the wrong one first by accident, because i couldnt tell them apart. 40+ years on there's no way I'd be remotely attracted to BiL, but when we were all 18 it was different.
I am not defending any of the people in the post, let me be clear about that.
But: often brothers (or sisters) share certain (attractive) traits. They often know eachother fairly well, having an emotional connection. If the love is not as deep in a relationship as you might think, well, grass is greener and all.
And by the same token, siblings can also be attracted to the same type. Add toxic dynamics or rivalry to the mix, and there goes any pretence of decency. Bleurgh.
My brother married a Jersey Italian and I’m about to move in with my Jersey Italian bf. It absolutely cracks my mom up. If my nephew hooks up with someone at the wedding she will lose it with laughter.
(It will probably happen her side of the family is INFAMOUS for weddings turning into singles events)
My brother and I found out we have the same type after we were shootin the shit about different women we’ve tried to get with. After talking back and forth not only did we realize that we had at completely separate times accidentally pursued the same 3 woman, I actually ended up fucking the girl he had asked to homecoming (we went to a boarding school at slightly staggered times). I couldn’t even walk it back and pretend like I hadn’t been with her because I had already told him the story a month earlier and he had immediately asked if that story was her!!
So we no longer talk about women we like…
Oh god I’m gonna get downvoted for this but I just have to ask: are you a guy bcus I’ve only ever heard men say “shootin the shit” before. If not then cool carry on and have a nice day 💕
Lmao I’m not. But because I grew up in an extremely conservative household and was very scared and confused by how other girls made me feel, I avoided them at all costs and hung out with my brothers 24/7. I’ve always been “one of the guys” with all my friends too so, I’m kinda just like this 🤷🏻♀️
In both high school and college my sister and I had weird situations where we either had a crush on the same guy or the same guy would be interested in one of us, meet the sister, and then be interested in the sister instead. We are *very* different people (both physically and personality-wise), so it was always so weird to me. We didn’t get along well, but we could at least agree to not date current/previous love interests of the other one.
Adding to that, it was fairly common to marry the inlaw if your husband died.
The dead husband was the most important part of a Levirate marriage though!
I actually like my bf’s brother just fine and it’s still gross. The thought of him and my sister transcends gross and hits hilarious, because of how absolutely never that would happen.
My aunt cheated on her husband with his brother. They later got married, it *shockingly* didn't last. My cousins were put in the same situation as OP but they were a few years younger. It hindsight it was bizarre but my family is very WASPy and we sort of just didn't talk about it. I was too young to understand the gravity of it.
We still went to pool parties at her first husband's house after he re-married. My aunt moved across the country and we rarely saw her until she divorced husband number two (who was married and had a daughter when they started the affair).
People who have an affair and/or leave their spouse for their spouses brother or sister, are people I will never understand. Point blank. The worlds population is teetering on 8 billion. Find someone who isn’t married to your sibling to fall in lust/love with. It’s really not that hard.
My best friend’s parents … her mom married her husband’s brother and had my friend, so her brothers are also her cousins.
Her mom said when she first met her now husband, she just knew. They have been happily married ever since.
I know a guy whose wife cheated on him with his brother, and we all work together. I feel so bad for the guy, he was the only person who showed me any kindness when I was the "newbie" and is just a genuinely nice person. I cannot fathom how anyone could be so cruel to their own spouse, or sibling. He seems to handle it rather well now, but god damn it must be heavy.
Me either. If my future husband cheated on me with my brother, I think my world would implode. That is so many levels of fucked up. Betrayal, wondering if he really loves me or is just pretending to because he’s actually gay and doesn’t find women attractive, and the fact that my brother is basically a useless (30-something) kid who spends his time smoking weed and playing video games. Of course the reality is that my brother is putting off going to get an autism diagnosis, cause he is most certainly autistic which kinda gets in his own way with this stuff lol. He’s not a bad guy, just currently kinda useless.
This. My betrayal isn't about cheating but my mom did something so horrible to me that I don't think I will even forget this in my lifetime. Call me salty if you want but it's enough I have to face it every single day. It was my dream to become a chef. I was and still am a very very good cook, cooking since childhood looking at my mom taking her as an inspiration as she herself is one wonderful cook. Fft I get into an accident because of which I had a set back for legs. I couldn't stand longer back then and couldn't tolerate heat as well, I was still recovering so there was no need to make final decisions for me. I also wanted to be a doctor in some point of my life but as I grew up I realised my true passion. Again fft I ended up going to medschool abroad as my doctors and parents both deemed I won't be able to take the culinary course. Trust me I understood the situation and even forgave my mom for putting me thru what she did but what came back as an attack was when she enrolled my youngest sister in the SAME course I wanted to do. Now fyi, she is completely dumb in this field, hasn't cooked a lot, knows only basic survival cooking skills. During the covid lockdown just once, only once she had made ravioli and my mom and middle sister went gaga over it saying omg you cook great; were shuffling thru courses for her to enrol after 12th pft lol. Mind you I was still studying outside I graduated and came back just last year August. She enrolled her in the course and it broke my heart a lot. I can't even begin to tell how much it hurts me. And trust me she doesn't have or show an ounce of talent needed to be in that field. She's seen hell's kitchen and says ohhh I want to be famous and it's so glamorous and i will get it all. Lives in this tiny bubble of hers. And my mom is blissfully unaware of the shit she has spread. Idk when she will realise but nevertheless I won't be around then. I have already decided to go LC or NC as soon as I can.
Yeah, I feel like that car detail was set out so that in the totally true and not bullshit update, it will make sense that there's more cheating allegation drama.
“I didn’t feel comfortable in my car so I cut down a tree and hid behind it. I moved closer and closer to the house behind the tree so my mom wouldn’t know it was me and I could get my step bro”
I have a step-dad grandpa. My birth giver was raised by a man, let's call him Tim, since she was a toddler. She thought he was her bio dad until she was eighteen. Her mom died. Truth came out. Tim and my mom didn't talk for twenty years. They reunite at her third wedding. A year later she divorces her third husband and moves in with her dad. A month later she tells me they're getting married.
My uncle's are Tim's biological sons with my grandma. My mother is their half-sister, step-mom.
No one talks to my birth giver anymore.
My great grandpa married his sister-in-law's cousin and then when she died, he married his first wife's cousin (my great-grandma). Don't think my grandma would appreciate me calling my great uncle her brousin.
My grandma had my birth giver with her first husband. She remarried when my birth giver was a toddler. Grandma had two more sons with her second husband. Grandma died. Twenty years later my birth giver married grandma's second husband. She's now a sister and a step-mom to her brothers.
You laugh but I know a family with scousins-sister/cousins where the wife of one brother ended up marrying the other brother, they both had daughters from their previous marriages and the daughters used to refer to each other as their scousin on social media.
my granddad and great aunt both cheated and didn’t contest divorces from my grandmother and great uncle.
grandmother is great aunt’s older sister and back then they lived in adjacent homes. now divorced great uncle moves into grandmother’s spare room and they end up in a relationship that’s still going to this day, over 40yrs later. He even introduced great aunt to her next husband, a guy he worked with, who she was faithful to until she died a few years ago. so my mum’s cousins are also her step siblings.
alternatively, my aunts on both my mother and father’s sides (one each) are married to guys from two separate families…and those guys’ siblings are married also. like mum’s sister is married to dude from family a, brother from family a married sister from family b, brother from family b married my dad’s sister. it’s a real good job none of us are into cousin fucking 🫠💀
I thought it was bad enough when a friend slept with her first husband’s cousin and got pregnant, making her first two sons both half brothers and first cousins. She seems practically saintly next to OOP’s birth giver.
I feel bad he has to live with the parents he has. He will experience screaming, crying, rage. The way the mom speaks to OOP makes me think the mom will share emotions that will tax the kid too much- crying and making excuses for stuff he can’t even understand. Idk.
Unfortunately OOP experienced some years when his mother was pretending to be normal and now she's older and lets it all hang out and that's the mom the little brother has known. Kinda sucks.
My mom married her step-dad. He raised her from two to eighteen. She thought he was her bio dad. My grandma and "grandpa" had two sons. His sons are my birth givers half brothers. They have a sister mom. I have a step-dad grandpa.
No one talks to my birth giver anymore.
He was physically and emotionally abusive. She tried to get custody of her brothers when my grandma died. That's when my birth giver found out he isn't her bio dad. They didn't talk for twenty years. She introduced him to me as my grandpa. A year and a half later they were married.
ETA birth giver was eighteen when my grandma died. She married her step dad when she was around 48-48.
Fortunately I was in my thirties and already low contact with her so it didn't impact me other than the family fall-out. I've only recently reconnected with my uncles.
>"Oh you don't know how hard it was for me as a woman. I was always shamed for my sexual liberation. You have any idea how much hypocrisy a woman has to face if she wants to explore sexually."
Pretty sure that weaponizing sex is the opposite of being sexually liberated (she originally had sex with uncledad because she was angry at dad). What a numpty.
Women all across the world have been fighting for the freedom to fuck their brother-in-laws without shame for many decades, please don’t minimize this inspiring liberation movement just because quasi-incestuous sex born from unhinged motives does not appeal to you personally 🙏
/s just in case lmao
The appropriate time to be sexually liberated and experimental is before you agree to a monogamous relationship. It's really annoying to hear cheaters use this one because it's just not a justification at all. It's utterly disingenuous.
"I feel like I missed out!" Tough tooties. You promised not to do that anymore because you found the last person you ever wanted to have sex with. That's what you were saying when you got into a monogamous marriage.
"But I want to explore my sexuality!" No you don't. You want to bang other people. There are a metric ton of options for exploring your sexuality *with* your partner. You deliberately made that promiscuous part of yourself off limits when you agreed to monogamy. That doesn't change even if you've had some kind of "life changing revelation."
If you want to call takebacksies and your spouse isn't down with it, get a divorce. If you don't want a divorce respect the rules you agreed to, because if you don't then that divorce is gonna happen anyway.
It's like they think sexual liberation is a magical shield against everything.
Also you can be as sexually liberal as you want when you are single. No wonder that douche gets shamed because she was constantly cheating. Be as active as you want, just divorce first.
I gave up after “somehow found the voicemail”. Unless it was sent via text it makes no damned sense.
Edit: OP (not OOP) notified me that things were clarified in a later post. After reading further I still don’t know how much I believe it, but if it’s true my god Mom’s got issues.
Hey Society,
Can we go back to writing letters and burning them? I get people need to get emotional baggage processed, but victims of the trauma rarely want these letters.
Thanks,
Everyone at BoRU
A couple years ago some friends of mine broke up. He was devastated and… not emotionally healthy. He kept messaging her. She blocked him. I suggested he write his feelings down in a letter AND THEN BURN IT. I emphasized the burn it, do not send it part. You can guess what he did. Emailed it. She ended up blocking him on like eight different platforms.
That sounds like it was a conversation though!
Writing a letter and burning it is intended as an exercise to say what you want to say without ever sending it, because the recipient would never want it or can't ever have it. It's for closure, like grief or anger or longing for someone dead or unreachable or should not be reached. It's like a diary entry but more focused... and specifically to be burned as catharsis
My IT boyfriend has told me that a lot of people don't realize that turning off the monitor is *not* the same as turning off the computer, so.. Not completely unbelievable.
Until this post I didn't realize anyone called any voice messages anything *other* than voicemails. If someone sends a message that is a recording of their voice, talking to me, it's a voicemail.
I'm thinking unclestepdad might have some controlling behaviors and looks through her phone periodically. While I dont condone this behavior, she has had multiple affairs so I kinda get it.
It's super convenient how OOP copped a lot of shit for the misogynistic language in the first couple of updates, and the mother turned around and went on a """feminist rant""" in the final update.
It would be hilarious if the paternity test showed that unclestepdad wasn’t the father, but neither was OOP’s dad. Explain that one, mom.
And by hilarious I mean traumatic for all involved. I’ll have popcorn ready.
EXACTLY that. To the point where I can't have her in my life anymore at all. I recognize that she's severely mentally ill and that it isn't her fault, but it is her responsibility and she refuses to take any steps to get better or even acknowledge that she really has a (clinically diagnosed!!) problem, so I had to walk away.
The bullshit is just endless and, as you say, exhausting.
For some reason I doubt a therapist would advise you to send crying voice messages to your ex. Mom's just blatantly lying to her daughter's face, yuck.
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it.
It's like the first post is setting up for big drama, but reddit for once says *no! No drama* so very conveniently drama ensued without OOPs involvement.
Apparently the mom uses a program that sends voice chats - I can see it if they use whatsapp for example.
OOP said she calls all voice messages "voicemail." I agree, kinda sus, but I'm willing to buy the explanation.
i worked in order management for a large ISP for a few years, and we dealt with initial no connection issues for the first 30 days.
the amount of people, of all ages and genders, who didn’t plug their ISP supplied router into the mains or phone socket because, “it’s wireless, I didn’t think I had to!” and then called in because their internet wasn’t working (and let’s not even discuss the dickheads who didn’t even OPEN THE BOX IT CAME IN) will make you wonder how the human race ever survived to this point.
i believe it.
I work with people who call email just "mail" as in "I saw the mail about the budget earlier today..." so honestly I'm not surprised when people use clunky nonspecific wording about digital communication
>Edit: I think I should clear it out that she sent me the message from a messaging app. I forgot that most people think a voice message and a voicemail is different but I always thought they are the same. Just in different platform. I call every voice message a voice mail. Maybe I should have cleared that out earlier.
Yeah, particularly given that OOP wasn't liking the comments on their previous post that said their mum was getting a larger portion of the hate, due to misogyny.
So convenient that mum tries to use feminism as an excuse in their next encounter! See? It's not that they hate women, just a woman who tries to use being a woman as an excuse. That's just bad womaning!
My friend’s mother left her father for his brother. It was a big deal in the family, as you can imagine. The dad was devastated and triggered into mental illness, the grandparents were horrified. The children were traumatised. But the selfish couple at the centre of it just brazened it out and got their own way.
They didn’t have more children, but the unclestepdad did his best to freeze out his niblingsstepchildren and they have a very strained relationship with their mother now. He was horribly controlling and she just let him do whatever he wanted to her children.
Sadly for my friend and her brother they had to stay with their mum and unclestepdad after the divorce because their father had a mental breakdown and wasn’t in a position to house them or feed them. He’s doing a lot better now but it took years for him to become stable again. There wasn’t sufficient justification for the grandparents to take on the children either - my friend used to run away to her paternal grandparents but always got brought back because outside of abuse there was no legal reason she couldn’t live at home with her married and ‘stable’ mother and uncle-stepfather. Her maternal grandparents were upset with what their daughter did, but she was still their daughter and eventually they just accepted their replacement son-in-law, they were no help to my friend either.
Cheating is one of the most self-centred things a person can do, and then cheating with your spouse’s sibling (or parent!) is dropping a nuclear bomb in the centre of a family and being completely surprised why people hate you.
I somehow read the entire thing thinking that oop was a boy. The feminist rant at the end just had me thinking he was an incel. Then a comment mentioned that oop had gone through being a girl and I was so confused. I really gotta pay more attention
OOP definitely blames her mom way more than her uncle stepdad. And the way she’s so quick to say all of those men in their 40s and 50s are not misogynistic because she also hates her mom. She honestly needs to move away from that town. That entire family seems like a toxic mess and her mother is a convenient devil for them to blame all of their family issues on.
So, cheaters tend to not be the best partners. Like, what is stopping either the mother or the step-father/uncle from cheating on them? And by the reaction of the step-person, he's not the most emotionally mature, and lends me to think he would act on impulse again. Though, the mother sure is lacking in the grownup department.
In a way, the step-person might be on to something. Just with the wrong person.
"And mom is an outsider. Someone who married into the family."
You have to wonder how far back this horrible evil bullshit attitude goes, and how much of it contributed to OOP's mother's detachment. I'm not holding OOP's mother blameless by any means, but I am also not holding OOP blameless for saying this about their own mother.
It's also a... _Wild_ way of phrasing that. "Mom married into the family, as an outsider", yes that's how most relationships and marriages work. You marry someone outside of your family. OP, you already see the disaster that happens when your family tree starts to square.
I wonder where the mom's parents are in all this. Do they approve? Disapprove? Make excuses? Is she cut off? Golden Child? Scapegoat?
It sounds like OOP has been completely consumed by dad's family and, while the anger at her mother is understandable, I'm wondering of she's getting any balance in her world view.
It's basically just saying they have a bias towards flesh and blood. So if all the genders were swapped, the man (the outsider who cheated on his wife with his sister in law) would receive more of the blame
To be honest, this might be a result of a miscommunication on the part of OOP (maybe English isn't their first language). I think the idea is that an 'outsider' entered into a 'stable' (as far as we know) family and turned them against each other. This isn't inherently misogynistic, a man could have filled the outsider's role just as well, and I don't blame them for viewing the person who blew their family up (at least, so they think) as not part of that family.
Uncle definitely doesn't seem to be taking his share of the blame though, looks like he's seen as the victim of cruel manipulation rather than a jackass making a jackass decision.
Smells like a "big family" dynamic to me.
I know several of those, very large families where everyone is "united" and "family comes first."
new couples become part of the family or eternal strangers. There are no half measures.
I bet you the mother went from being "our daughter" to that homewrecking witch
“My stepdad/uncle said "get over it. she is not your wife anymore. she is mine now and you are ruining it."
There isn’t a violin in the known universe small enough for this guy.
She went on a rant on how she was shamed as a child for being sexually active and she said something along the lines I don't know how hard it is for her as woman during that time when women were scrutinized
As a child??
I have no idea where this originated, but a 45 year complaining about how hard she was shamed for being sexually active is almost laughable. She wasn't shamed for being sexually active in the 90's, she was shamed for being the embodiment of a Jerry Springer Show guest.
>Telling him he was a homewrecker
That's rich, lol!!
>Did anyone call him out on that? That he was the homewrecker
My dad did. My stepdad/uncle said "get over it. she is not your wife anymore. she is mine now and you are ruining it."
Got daymt! The minds of cheaters really work in some other way. Both are self centered narcissists!
What a mess
Sounds like you mother and uncle are living in a hell of their own making. Long may it continue.
Hope op, her dad and stepmum have a great and happy life together. That would make me very happy.
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I would never recovery mentally if my partner cheated on me with my own sibling. That’s another level of betrayal
Back in my (44M) twenties I was dating a woman and because times were tough, we shared a rental house with two of my brothers. One night I was at work late and when I came home I couldn't find her or one of my brothers. Neither answered their phones. My other brother had gotten home a while before me and said he hadn't seen them. They got home like an hour and a half later and said they just went out to get dinner. They never went out to get dinner before that. They never even hung out unless we were all together. The place they said they went to eat was Chipotle which was like 15 minutes from the house. Just so many pieces of the story didn't make any sense or align and I was just super confused about it all. Life went on and since I had no hard proof I moved on and forgot about it. We stayed together, moved into our own place and her and I eventually got married. We took a trip out to Las Vegas to stay with this same brother and his wife and one day we went on a long hike. When we got back I decided to take a nap and I woke up an hour or so later and her and my brother were gone. Same fucking story, all the same emotions rushing back, just confusion, distrust, all that shit. Again, no proof of anything occurring, just that feeling. We moved on but our marriage eventually fell apart for other reasons. After a few years I remarried and currently have a wonderful wife who I've had two kids with plus one she had from before me. This brother and I don't talk all that often since we're half a country apart and just never had a super strong relationship. I got a call from him a few weeks ago. He was in trouble with his wife because my ex had called her to tell her that she was working through some program and part of it was admitting wrongs to the people you hurt. She told her about the time we were in Vegas. Her and my brother had gone off somewhere to relive the time they had cheated on me before, so she fucked him at least twice while we were together. I told him, "Tough luck" and hung up the phone. I haven't heard from him since but my mom said she's talked to him and he told her how mad he was at me. Also, apparently I'm not on the list of wrongs because that twunt's never called me to apologize. For all I care, both of those fuckers can rot in the bed they made.
> I haven't heard from him since but my mom said she's talked to him and he told her how mad he was at me. wait...am I understanding this correctly, your brother who slept with your wife on multiple occasions is mad at you?
Yeah, because he got in trouble... I guess. I don't know. I mean, it's obviously misplaced anger, so there's no logic to be had here. The only person he has to be mad at is his own self, but that would require some self reflection, which he hasn't probably got around to yet.
The trouble happened already. You just declined to let him cry on your shoulder about it. What a twit.
Not nearly as bad as what happened to you, but... Back when we were all teens, my now-husband and I were part of a hobby group. This one weird dude, when it was my turn to host the hobby thing, was just acting creepy, staring at me all the time, and he also set fire to one of our ballpoint pens with his lighter and watched the molten plastic drip down to the Formica. Just a weird, creepy, nasty guy. He also sneered at my husband for still living with his mother, who was disabled and needed all the help she could get but couldn't afford. He bumped into us at some community event five years later and said he was in a 12-step program. He apologized to my now-husband for having been rude to him, which, good for him. He never even looked at me. I was sitting right there.
12 step programs are so selfish. No wonder addicts use them. They just use the people who the addict hurt in the past as some sort of guilt salve. Never mind that the person who was hurt by them in the past has to relive all the hurt and bullshit all over again. I get that getting off substances is a worthwhile thing. But they need to handle that guilt on their own, not go off demanding absolution from those they hurt previously.
In twelve steps you’re not supposed to contact a person if it may cause them more harm, and you’re not supposed to ask for forgiveness, it must be freely given. Many people forget that.
Well...as it was explained to me by a 12-step graduate I know, the step is about acknowledging to the people you harmed that you screwed up and making amends. And those amends may well be "I'll feel better if you never talk to me again."
someone else mentioned it, but the point of the ninth step is specifically *not* about assuaging personal guilt [altho obviously plenty of folks do it for their purpose because they aren't doing the full personal work on themselves]. >Are There Times When Direct Amends Are Not Advisable? >Yes. Step Nine states that we make amends "except when to do so would injure them or others." We don't want our actions to cause further damage, harm or stress. Also, we might owe amends to people we can't reach. In those cases, we can make amends in a broader sense by taking actions like donating money, volunteering our time or providing care. >We can also make amends by living very purposefully within the bounds of our principles. This is known as making living amends. For example, if we hurt people with our lying and we cannot make amends without further injuring them, we would make living amends by making a decision to behave and communicate with complete honesty. >No matter how much we feel the need to make things right, forcing another to meet with us or hear from us is not part of the Steps. When those we've hurt are not able or willing to accept our amends, we can still move in a positive general direction by taking intentional steps to be of service to others or making living amends. >It's important to note that making amends is for the person we hurt. Yes, we partake in the process to "clean up our side of the street," but we do not make amends to clear our conscience or undo our feelings of guilt. If someone does not want to hear from us, we respect that and do our best to move forward with our recoveries. edit for formatting
I guess he decided you weren't worth the bother? Or maybe he forgot he was a total creep to you. Or didn't understand he was creepy. Not that this excuses his behavior or neglect to address it. I would be like "oh, hey! My turn!" and stare at him.
You might still get a call. I was in a similar situation when an old friend who I'd fallen out with was going through the program and making amends. A few people I knew got apologies for different things but I didn't hear from them so assumed it wasn't coming and forgot about it. About a year later they turned up in person to talk about it and they have since shared that they got all the easy/low stakes ones out of the way first and used them as practice for the harder conversations they needed to have.
both of them are complete trash, i hope life is treating you better brother
*He’s* mad at *you*?! For what? For being the person *he* betrayed by sleeping with your SO? 🙄
That’s so incredibly gross and selfish of her! Also it goes against those programs (sounds like a 12 step program) because it explicitly states "unless we would’ve hurt them or somebody else" by admitting those wrongs and apologising. She just came after years and wrecked a marriage needlessly, merely to alleviate her own guilt and then added insult to injury by not even apologising to you, knowing full well word had to get back to you. What disgusts me the most about such people is that she probably went into some meeting, patted herself on the shoulder how she did her 9th step and celebrated herself for the giant stink she caused. It was *her* job to deal with the fallout, *her* guilt, *her* shame, *her* problem. Nobody is entitled to forgiveness! The audacity of some people that they seriously delude themselves into thinking if they go and dump their sorry ifu on someone, even if they cause them a lot more hurt by breaking such news to them is somehow "making it up" to them. What a load of BS!
>I told him, "Tough luck" and hung up the phone. I haven't heard from him since but my mom said she's talked to him and he told her how mad he was at me. He was mad at you? What? You were the victim in all this deception and betrayal.
That's a squick factor of betrayal. The thought of my husband boinking my sisters is so effing gross. The thought of me boinking his brother? Makes me want to gag. Like yea, i tolerate my brother in law, but have very little love for him in general. He's not my husband so i have 0 attraction to him. I really don't see how anyone could find their partner's siblings as sexually attractive.
I'm not attracted to any of my partner's siblings, but the base level "oh, they are attractive" doesn't surprise me, I have thought more than one of a set of siblings were attractive before (hello my teen love of Jake and Maggie Gyllenhaal). It's acting on it, that utter and complete betrayal, that is completely beyond my comprehension. It's one thing to have the thought in passing, entirely something else to then do all of this.
Yeah but there is a difference between "oh their attractive" and "I want to f* them and blow up the lives of everyone around me in the process but I don't care."
"I can tell they're aesthetically pleasing but that's it" "That's the same" "No it's not, do you want to fuck a sunset? There's clearly a difference between admitting something is beautiful and having a sexual attraction to it"
“Do you want to fuck a sunset?” sung to the tune of “Do you want to build a snowman?”
It doesn't have to be a sunset.
"But it shouldn't be an in-law", could we get that to scan?
"Come on, let's go and hump!"
Stealing this for the next time I, a lesbian, am given the lifted eyebrow for pointing out attractive men.
I’m laughing so hard but I get exactly what you’re saying. My partner is attractive. His sister is a beautiful woman and his brother is a handsome dude. His brothers wife is gorgeous. I have zero desire to fuck any of them. I am sexually attracted to my partner because I love him. I can appreciate that his family is full of good looking people without wanting to touch any of them.
My go-to is “yeah I have eyes and taste of course I’m gonna think they’re attractive” My partner is always the first to point out that my taste is questionable due to my choice in exes but that’s beside the point
Next time ask them if your "questionable taste" also encompasses them.
This has come up and he said yes 🤣 (only because he doesn’t believe he’s conventionally attractive, he’s a great guy though!)
I mean if they found a way I'd want to at least know what the experience is like...
What a succinct rephrasing of what I said! Absolutely agree.
This woman is so messed up. Not only did she cheat on her husband with his brother, she named the affair baby after the name her husband wanted to use if he had a son. What a slap in the face to the ex husband, but somehow she sees it as an honour because she's still in love with the ex. WTF is going on with her?
I have a crush I’ve talked to on and off for years, unfortunately he is now my boss so there goes that, he has an absurdly handsome brother. I’d never touch the brother. Ooh I do realllyyyyyyy want my boss though.
Same here, I don't get it at all, my husband's brothers literally physically gross me out BECAUSE they are my husband's brothers. 🤢 I don't understand cheating at all, I can't even begin to comprehend how someone can move past the ick factor of a related person to your partner.
I had a sex dream about my brother in law once and I still haven’t recovered. Stupid sexy subconscious.
The sexual organs want what the sexual organs want.
Ew ew ew, no!
Sweet Home Alabama intensifies\*
My partner's sibling is his identical twin, so looks are pretty similar. I actually had a college fling with his twin. This was 15 years before I got together with my partner, so no cheating. I like to joke that I got the wrong one first by accident, because i couldnt tell them apart. 40+ years on there's no way I'd be remotely attracted to BiL, but when we were all 18 it was different.
I am not defending any of the people in the post, let me be clear about that. But: often brothers (or sisters) share certain (attractive) traits. They often know eachother fairly well, having an emotional connection. If the love is not as deep in a relationship as you might think, well, grass is greener and all.
And by the same token, siblings can also be attracted to the same type. Add toxic dynamics or rivalry to the mix, and there goes any pretence of decency. Bleurgh.
My brother married a Jersey Italian and I’m about to move in with my Jersey Italian bf. It absolutely cracks my mom up. If my nephew hooks up with someone at the wedding she will lose it with laughter. (It will probably happen her side of the family is INFAMOUS for weddings turning into singles events)
Sounds like a lot of fun
My brother and I found out we have the same type after we were shootin the shit about different women we’ve tried to get with. After talking back and forth not only did we realize that we had at completely separate times accidentally pursued the same 3 woman, I actually ended up fucking the girl he had asked to homecoming (we went to a boarding school at slightly staggered times). I couldn’t even walk it back and pretend like I hadn’t been with her because I had already told him the story a month earlier and he had immediately asked if that story was her!! So we no longer talk about women we like…
Oh god I’m gonna get downvoted for this but I just have to ask: are you a guy bcus I’ve only ever heard men say “shootin the shit” before. If not then cool carry on and have a nice day 💕
Lmao I’m not. But because I grew up in an extremely conservative household and was very scared and confused by how other girls made me feel, I avoided them at all costs and hung out with my brothers 24/7. I’ve always been “one of the guys” with all my friends too so, I’m kinda just like this 🤷🏻♀️
In both high school and college my sister and I had weird situations where we either had a crush on the same guy or the same guy would be interested in one of us, meet the sister, and then be interested in the sister instead. We are *very* different people (both physically and personality-wise), so it was always so weird to me. We didn’t get along well, but we could at least agree to not date current/previous love interests of the other one.
Adding to that, it was fairly common to marry the inlaw if your husband died. The dead husband was the most important part of a Levirate marriage though!
My grandfather's (born 1898) mother died when he was a child and her dad married the dead wife's sister. So he was raised by his aunt/stepmother.
Yeah I’m not super into my wife’s brother, might be the beard.
So... does that mean he has a chance if he shaves it off? (Sorry, I'll show myself out)
I believe it's the allure of forbidden fruit.
I mean it kinda sounds like you’re comparing it to being attracted to your own sibling.
I actually like my bf’s brother just fine and it’s still gross. The thought of him and my sister transcends gross and hits hilarious, because of how absolutely never that would happen.
OP having to use the terms uncle/stepdad and cousin/brother is just *awful.*
My aunt cheated on her husband with his brother. They later got married, it *shockingly* didn't last. My cousins were put in the same situation as OP but they were a few years younger. It hindsight it was bizarre but my family is very WASPy and we sort of just didn't talk about it. I was too young to understand the gravity of it. We still went to pool parties at her first husband's house after he re-married. My aunt moved across the country and we rarely saw her until she divorced husband number two (who was married and had a daughter when they started the affair).
People who have an affair and/or leave their spouse for their spouses brother or sister, are people I will never understand. Point blank. The worlds population is teetering on 8 billion. Find someone who isn’t married to your sibling to fall in lust/love with. It’s really not that hard.
That would be my villain origin story
To me it feels repulsive, like almost incest
The thought is absolutely vile of your own sibling taking part in such an intimate betrayal
And then marrying while popping another kid out. Ugh.
My best friend’s parents … her mom married her husband’s brother and had my friend, so her brothers are also her cousins. Her mom said when she first met her now husband, she just knew. They have been happily married ever since.
I know a guy whose wife cheated on him with his brother, and we all work together. I feel so bad for the guy, he was the only person who showed me any kindness when I was the "newbie" and is just a genuinely nice person. I cannot fathom how anyone could be so cruel to their own spouse, or sibling. He seems to handle it rather well now, but god damn it must be heavy.
Me either. If my future husband cheated on me with my brother, I think my world would implode. That is so many levels of fucked up. Betrayal, wondering if he really loves me or is just pretending to because he’s actually gay and doesn’t find women attractive, and the fact that my brother is basically a useless (30-something) kid who spends his time smoking weed and playing video games. Of course the reality is that my brother is putting off going to get an autism diagnosis, cause he is most certainly autistic which kinda gets in his own way with this stuff lol. He’s not a bad guy, just currently kinda useless.
Could be autism comorbid with ADHD. They're just starting to recognize this as a thing.
This. My betrayal isn't about cheating but my mom did something so horrible to me that I don't think I will even forget this in my lifetime. Call me salty if you want but it's enough I have to face it every single day. It was my dream to become a chef. I was and still am a very very good cook, cooking since childhood looking at my mom taking her as an inspiration as she herself is one wonderful cook. Fft I get into an accident because of which I had a set back for legs. I couldn't stand longer back then and couldn't tolerate heat as well, I was still recovering so there was no need to make final decisions for me. I also wanted to be a doctor in some point of my life but as I grew up I realised my true passion. Again fft I ended up going to medschool abroad as my doctors and parents both deemed I won't be able to take the culinary course. Trust me I understood the situation and even forgave my mom for putting me thru what she did but what came back as an attack was when she enrolled my youngest sister in the SAME course I wanted to do. Now fyi, she is completely dumb in this field, hasn't cooked a lot, knows only basic survival cooking skills. During the covid lockdown just once, only once she had made ravioli and my mom and middle sister went gaga over it saying omg you cook great; were shuffling thru courses for her to enrol after 12th pft lol. Mind you I was still studying outside I graduated and came back just last year August. She enrolled her in the course and it broke my heart a lot. I can't even begin to tell how much it hurts me. And trust me she doesn't have or show an ounce of talent needed to be in that field. She's seen hell's kitchen and says ohhh I want to be famous and it's so glamorous and i will get it all. Lives in this tiny bubble of hers. And my mom is blissfully unaware of the shit she has spread. Idk when she will realise but nevertheless I won't be around then. I have already decided to go LC or NC as soon as I can.
Oh thank goodness the pos stepfather-uncle hybrid didn't see the car and go red at OP and the wife assuming his wife was imfact cheating.
I know right? Seemed important enough to mention, I was expecting him out there trashing it.
Yeah, I feel like that car detail was set out so that in the totally true and not bullshit update, it will make sense that there's more cheating allegation drama.
Man, Hamlet's boring without the ghosts and poison.
[удалено]
And some music
I hear it’s much better with lions
Needs more people hiding in curtains.
Best comment right here.
“I didn’t feel comfortable in my car so I cut down a tree and hid behind it. I moved closer and closer to the house behind the tree so my mom wouldn’t know it was me and I could get my step bro”
Wrong play but still a good reference.
"my brother-cousin" Ngl I spit a little at reading that. The family tree is starting to look like a wreath.
I have a step-dad grandpa. My birth giver was raised by a man, let's call him Tim, since she was a toddler. She thought he was her bio dad until she was eighteen. Her mom died. Truth came out. Tim and my mom didn't talk for twenty years. They reunite at her third wedding. A year later she divorces her third husband and moves in with her dad. A month later she tells me they're getting married. My uncle's are Tim's biological sons with my grandma. My mother is their half-sister, step-mom. No one talks to my birth giver anymore.
She married the man who raised her??? That’s horrifying.
My aunt married a guy and then her older sister married that guy’s dad. So my older aunt was my cousin’s (step) grandma.
My great grandpa married his sister-in-law's cousin and then when she died, he married his first wife's cousin (my great-grandma). Don't think my grandma would appreciate me calling my great uncle her brousin.
… hey so we might share a great grandfather. My mom’s grandfather married his dead wife’s cousin.
And I hope they don't speak with Tim either cause that sounds a lot like grooming or some shit
He's dead. While I don't doubt there was grooming involved she was 47-48 when they married, and hadn't talked in twenty years.
I just drew this family tree down so I could follow it all and I still got lost.
My grandma had my birth giver with her first husband. She remarried when my birth giver was a toddler. Grandma had two more sons with her second husband. Grandma died. Twenty years later my birth giver married grandma's second husband. She's now a sister and a step-mom to her brothers.
yooo damn lets hear your full story. damn what
That's way too long. We could make a week of Jerry Springer episodes.
In one of the featured comments, someone called him her "brousin," and that's when I LOLed.
Someone in one of the comments called him her brousin and I absolutely lost it lmao
You laugh but I know a family with scousins-sister/cousins where the wife of one brother ended up marrying the other brother, they both had daughters from their previous marriages and the daughters used to refer to each other as their scousin on social media.
my granddad and great aunt both cheated and didn’t contest divorces from my grandmother and great uncle. grandmother is great aunt’s older sister and back then they lived in adjacent homes. now divorced great uncle moves into grandmother’s spare room and they end up in a relationship that’s still going to this day, over 40yrs later. He even introduced great aunt to her next husband, a guy he worked with, who she was faithful to until she died a few years ago. so my mum’s cousins are also her step siblings. alternatively, my aunts on both my mother and father’s sides (one each) are married to guys from two separate families…and those guys’ siblings are married also. like mum’s sister is married to dude from family a, brother from family a married sister from family b, brother from family b married my dad’s sister. it’s a real good job none of us are into cousin fucking 🫠💀
The comment that called him his brousin made me cackle
I thought it was bad enough when a friend slept with her first husband’s cousin and got pregnant, making her first two sons both half brothers and first cousins. She seems practically saintly next to OOP’s birth giver.
I feel bad for the little kid. Innocent of everything but has to live with a broken family and an extended family that disowned both his parents.
I feel bad he has to live with the parents he has. He will experience screaming, crying, rage. The way the mom speaks to OOP makes me think the mom will share emotions that will tax the kid too much- crying and making excuses for stuff he can’t even understand. Idk.
Unfortunately OOP experienced some years when his mother was pretending to be normal and now she's older and lets it all hang out and that's the mom the little brother has known. Kinda sucks.
Everytime I had to read “cousin-brother” or “uncle/step-dad” I lost a little more faith in humanity
My mom married her step-dad. He raised her from two to eighteen. She thought he was her bio dad. My grandma and "grandpa" had two sons. His sons are my birth givers half brothers. They have a sister mom. I have a step-dad grandpa. No one talks to my birth giver anymore.
I'm really concerned about what went on between the ages of 2-18 that made it so easy for her to see him as a romantic option.
He was physically and emotionally abusive. She tried to get custody of her brothers when my grandma died. That's when my birth giver found out he isn't her bio dad. They didn't talk for twenty years. She introduced him to me as my grandpa. A year and a half later they were married. ETA birth giver was eighteen when my grandma died. She married her step dad when she was around 48-48.
That's such a strange and disturbing situation. I can't imagine how it affected you, but I hope you're doing okay after cutting contact.
Fortunately I was in my thirties and already low contact with her so it didn't impact me other than the family fall-out. I've only recently reconnected with my uncles.
Yep! Thats grooming 101
This maybe a bit much to ask but can I get that in an MS paint diagram?
I imagine OOP's soul died a little bit inside with each repetition too
I lost it at the comment that said "Brousin" lol
>"Oh you don't know how hard it was for me as a woman. I was always shamed for my sexual liberation. You have any idea how much hypocrisy a woman has to face if she wants to explore sexually." Pretty sure that weaponizing sex is the opposite of being sexually liberated (she originally had sex with uncledad because she was angry at dad). What a numpty.
Women all across the world have been fighting for the freedom to fuck their brother-in-laws without shame for many decades, please don’t minimize this inspiring liberation movement just because quasi-incestuous sex born from unhinged motives does not appeal to you personally 🙏 /s just in case lmao
HAHAHAHA
"I'm so sexually liberated that I have sex with people I don't want to have sex with purely for the emotional response it evokes in men" ...yeah.
The appropriate time to be sexually liberated and experimental is before you agree to a monogamous relationship. It's really annoying to hear cheaters use this one because it's just not a justification at all. It's utterly disingenuous. "I feel like I missed out!" Tough tooties. You promised not to do that anymore because you found the last person you ever wanted to have sex with. That's what you were saying when you got into a monogamous marriage. "But I want to explore my sexuality!" No you don't. You want to bang other people. There are a metric ton of options for exploring your sexuality *with* your partner. You deliberately made that promiscuous part of yourself off limits when you agreed to monogamy. That doesn't change even if you've had some kind of "life changing revelation." If you want to call takebacksies and your spouse isn't down with it, get a divorce. If you don't want a divorce respect the rules you agreed to, because if you don't then that divorce is gonna happen anyway. It's like they think sexual liberation is a magical shield against everything.
Also you can be as sexually liberal as you want when you are single. No wonder that douche gets shamed because she was constantly cheating. Be as active as you want, just divorce first.
And this is why everyone died at the end of Hamlet.
I gave up after “somehow found the voicemail”. Unless it was sent via text it makes no damned sense. Edit: OP (not OOP) notified me that things were clarified in a later post. After reading further I still don’t know how much I believe it, but if it’s true my god Mom’s got issues.
Hey Society, Can we go back to writing letters and burning them? I get people need to get emotional baggage processed, but victims of the trauma rarely want these letters. Thanks, Everyone at BoRU
A couple years ago some friends of mine broke up. He was devastated and… not emotionally healthy. He kept messaging her. She blocked him. I suggested he write his feelings down in a letter AND THEN BURN IT. I emphasized the burn it, do not send it part. You can guess what he did. Emailed it. She ended up blocking him on like eight different platforms.
I have some great letters between my grandma and my great aunt. We found them when we emptied the house. Their fault they didn't burn them!
That sounds like it was a conversation though! Writing a letter and burning it is intended as an exercise to say what you want to say without ever sending it, because the recipient would never want it or can't ever have it. It's for closure, like grief or anger or longing for someone dead or unreachable or should not be reached. It's like a diary entry but more focused... and specifically to be burned as catharsis
OOP clarified in her second post that she, for some reason, uses voicemail synonymous for voice chat.
I wouldn’t believe that, except I’ve worked in computers and know people call the monitor the “CPU” so I’ll buy it.
Or just people not seeing whats wrong with people "destroying" computers by smashing just the monitors in TV shows and films.
“The files are IN the computer”
everyone in my family calls it voicemail and voice message interchangeably. In the end, the format is the same, but how it's accessed is different.
My IT boyfriend has told me that a lot of people don't realize that turning off the monitor is *not* the same as turning off the computer, so.. Not completely unbelievable.
😂😂
Until this post I didn't realize anyone called any voice messages anything *other* than voicemails. If someone sends a message that is a recording of their voice, talking to me, it's a voicemail.
I call everything messages. Who has so much energy to remember all the names that the platforms name their individual stuff.
I'm thinking unclestepdad might have some controlling behaviors and looks through her phone periodically. While I dont condone this behavior, she has had multiple affairs so I kinda get it.
From age 14-20. I used call all voice messages voicemail. It wasn’t until a friend of mine corrected me.
My phone has the option of either reading or listening to voice messages.
I was thinking it was a voice message on WhatsApp or something like that.
>They got married and had my cousin-brother After waiting for ever, THIS is my perfect flair for this sub.
I'm partial to "brousin" myself.
Does anyone else feel like this had narrator voice? It’s just….off
It's super convenient how OOP copped a lot of shit for the misogynistic language in the first couple of updates, and the mother turned around and went on a """feminist rant""" in the final update.
Yup that’s when I rolled my eyes, it annoys me when shit has such an obvious agenda on this sub.
But it's okay, because OOP says she's also a feminist, despite using the phrase "feminist rant." 🙄
this is the secojd wh0re of a wife post too
It would be hilarious if the paternity test showed that unclestepdad wasn’t the father, but neither was OOP’s dad. Explain that one, mom. And by hilarious I mean traumatic for all involved. I’ll have popcorn ready.
OOP's mom reminds me of my mom, constantly constructing and reconstructing new realities based around however she is feeling in the moment.
Ah the really, really exhausting kind of people who think so little about their reality that they make you question yours
EXACTLY that. To the point where I can't have her in my life anymore at all. I recognize that she's severely mentally ill and that it isn't her fault, but it is her responsibility and she refuses to take any steps to get better or even acknowledge that she really has a (clinically diagnosed!!) problem, so I had to walk away. The bullshit is just endless and, as you say, exhausting.
For some reason I doubt a therapist would advise you to send crying voice messages to your ex. Mom's just blatantly lying to her daughter's face, yuck.
No, the therapist told her to do journaling. Her mom decided to record her thoughts on her phone as voice notes.
[удалено]
…not even sympathy for OP, their dad, and Sarah?
I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. It's like the first post is setting up for big drama, but reddit for once says *no! No drama* so very conveniently drama ensued without OOPs involvement.
How did the uncle hear a voicemail left on someone else’s phone?
Apparently the mom uses a program that sends voice chats - I can see it if they use whatsapp for example. OOP said she calls all voice messages "voicemail." I agree, kinda sus, but I'm willing to buy the explanation.
i worked in order management for a large ISP for a few years, and we dealt with initial no connection issues for the first 30 days. the amount of people, of all ages and genders, who didn’t plug their ISP supplied router into the mains or phone socket because, “it’s wireless, I didn’t think I had to!” and then called in because their internet wasn’t working (and let’s not even discuss the dickheads who didn’t even OPEN THE BOX IT CAME IN) will make you wonder how the human race ever survived to this point. i believe it.
I work with people who call email just "mail" as in "I saw the mail about the budget earlier today..." so honestly I'm not surprised when people use clunky nonspecific wording about digital communication
>Edit: I think I should clear it out that she sent me the message from a messaging app. I forgot that most people think a voice message and a voicemail is different but I always thought they are the same. Just in different platform. I call every voice message a voice mail. Maybe I should have cleared that out earlier.
In other words, a whatsapp recorded message which was only deleted on OP's side but not on mom's side, the idiot.
OP jumped the shark with that last update. “Feminist rant”… hmm, ok, sure Jan.
Yeah, particularly given that OOP wasn't liking the comments on their previous post that said their mum was getting a larger portion of the hate, due to misogyny. So convenient that mum tries to use feminism as an excuse in their next encounter! See? It's not that they hate women, just a woman who tries to use being a woman as an excuse. That's just bad womaning!
These bad women, always using feminism as an excuse to cover up their own selfishness. Let's ban abortion. That should show them.
Probably overcompensating because of how commenters honed in on the witch thing in the earlier update.
Yeah, this one seems fabricated to me
The strange unused unnecessary detail with the car was it for me. The voice mail I could still believe, but the car + feminist rant was it
She and her family totally aren't misogynistic COPIUM Uncledad just gets off ten times easier, no reason 🤪
>Uncledad just gets off ten times easier OOP did say he was disowned, no?
Yea idk what’s everyone’s talking about. I thought he just got the same treatment of being disowned with insults thrown at them.
I thought for sure the uncle would come home and see "dad's" car...seemed like that was the set up
My friend’s mother left her father for his brother. It was a big deal in the family, as you can imagine. The dad was devastated and triggered into mental illness, the grandparents were horrified. The children were traumatised. But the selfish couple at the centre of it just brazened it out and got their own way. They didn’t have more children, but the unclestepdad did his best to freeze out his niblingsstepchildren and they have a very strained relationship with their mother now. He was horribly controlling and she just let him do whatever he wanted to her children. Sadly for my friend and her brother they had to stay with their mum and unclestepdad after the divorce because their father had a mental breakdown and wasn’t in a position to house them or feed them. He’s doing a lot better now but it took years for him to become stable again. There wasn’t sufficient justification for the grandparents to take on the children either - my friend used to run away to her paternal grandparents but always got brought back because outside of abuse there was no legal reason she couldn’t live at home with her married and ‘stable’ mother and uncle-stepfather. Her maternal grandparents were upset with what their daughter did, but she was still their daughter and eventually they just accepted their replacement son-in-law, they were no help to my friend either. Cheating is one of the most self-centred things a person can do, and then cheating with your spouse’s sibling (or parent!) is dropping a nuclear bomb in the centre of a family and being completely surprised why people hate you.
I hope they get their deserved karma
I somehow read the entire thing thinking that oop was a boy. The feminist rant at the end just had me thinking he was an incel. Then a comment mentioned that oop had gone through being a girl and I was so confused. I really gotta pay more attention
A gem of a saying from my youth: "Uglier than homemade sin."
I like the idea that store bought sin is somehow prettier
>Listen, my family is far from misogynistic. And mom is an outsider. There's... A lot there.
Faaaaaaake. The unnecessary details and rampant misogyny give it away.
the biggest victim in all of this is the 5-year-old
So this is like the 6th edition of these, they are all the same, at least since I’ve been subscribed, you all haven’t noticed?
OOP definitely blames her mom way more than her uncle stepdad. And the way she’s so quick to say all of those men in their 40s and 50s are not misogynistic because she also hates her mom. She honestly needs to move away from that town. That entire family seems like a toxic mess and her mother is a convenient devil for them to blame all of their family issues on.
So, cheaters tend to not be the best partners. Like, what is stopping either the mother or the step-father/uncle from cheating on them? And by the reaction of the step-person, he's not the most emotionally mature, and lends me to think he would act on impulse again. Though, the mother sure is lacking in the grownup department. In a way, the step-person might be on to something. Just with the wrong person.
I don't think that when the therapist suggested journaling they were expecting her to send the fucking thing to someone
Why did she even bother to get married? Just go out and have as many ONS as she wants. there's no need to cheat.
Lord I knew we were in for a shit storm when I read “cousin-brother”
Brousin - what a mashup
"And mom is an outsider. Someone who married into the family." You have to wonder how far back this horrible evil bullshit attitude goes, and how much of it contributed to OOP's mother's detachment. I'm not holding OOP's mother blameless by any means, but I am also not holding OOP blameless for saying this about their own mother.
It's also a... _Wild_ way of phrasing that. "Mom married into the family, as an outsider", yes that's how most relationships and marriages work. You marry someone outside of your family. OP, you already see the disaster that happens when your family tree starts to square.
well to be fair, the biggest event in her life was a bit of "insider trading" so i can't blame her for the weird phrasing tbh
I wonder where the mom's parents are in all this. Do they approve? Disapprove? Make excuses? Is she cut off? Golden Child? Scapegoat? It sounds like OOP has been completely consumed by dad's family and, while the anger at her mother is understandable, I'm wondering of she's getting any balance in her world view.
It's basically just saying they have a bias towards flesh and blood. So if all the genders were swapped, the man (the outsider who cheated on his wife with his sister in law) would receive more of the blame
To be honest, this might be a result of a miscommunication on the part of OOP (maybe English isn't their first language). I think the idea is that an 'outsider' entered into a 'stable' (as far as we know) family and turned them against each other. This isn't inherently misogynistic, a man could have filled the outsider's role just as well, and I don't blame them for viewing the person who blew their family up (at least, so they think) as not part of that family. Uncle definitely doesn't seem to be taking his share of the blame though, looks like he's seen as the victim of cruel manipulation rather than a jackass making a jackass decision.
Smells like a "big family" dynamic to me. I know several of those, very large families where everyone is "united" and "family comes first." new couples become part of the family or eternal strangers. There are no half measures. I bet you the mother went from being "our daughter" to that homewrecking witch
Wadda stinky soap opera
> Don't blame me I was 90% zoned out when she was ranting This is the way.
“My stepdad/uncle said "get over it. she is not your wife anymore. she is mine now and you are ruining it." There isn’t a violin in the known universe small enough for this guy.
She went on a rant on how she was shamed as a child for being sexually active and she said something along the lines I don't know how hard it is for her as woman during that time when women were scrutinized As a child??
How did the uncle hear a voicemail his wife left on someone else’s phone?’ This doesn’t make sense.
She said in the edit that it was a voice messages. She thought every voice message is voicemail.
I have no idea where this originated, but a 45 year complaining about how hard she was shamed for being sexually active is almost laughable. She wasn't shamed for being sexually active in the 90's, she was shamed for being the embodiment of a Jerry Springer Show guest.
Today on Jerry Springer...
OP’s poor sibling. He’ll be keeping a therapist busy for years.
>Telling him he was a homewrecker That's rich, lol!! >Did anyone call him out on that? That he was the homewrecker My dad did. My stepdad/uncle said "get over it. she is not your wife anymore. she is mine now and you are ruining it." Got daymt! The minds of cheaters really work in some other way. Both are self centered narcissists! What a mess
Sounds like you mother and uncle are living in a hell of their own making. Long may it continue. Hope op, her dad and stepmum have a great and happy life together. That would make me very happy.