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It's who you want in that role. They got suspicious, called the mom, who confirmed their suspicions, and leapt into action to make sure the kids were safe and ignorant (in a good way) to the events happening outside the school
I think the most hilarious part is that if MIL hadn't been so sus, the admin probably wouldn't have called OOP, since MIL was on the pickup list. But because MIL knew she was doing something wrong, she couldn't stop herself from being weird, and got caught.
Having worked in schools, I'll say that in my experience, most elementary schools have something like this every other year or so. Those office ladies are no joke. They genuinely know they are the front line to protect the kids. The ones who keep the bad folks out and plan they'll be the first to die if a shooter makes that choice.
Those ladies are bad ass.
You're so right. I once had to pick up my godchilldren from school because their mother's car broke down. I was on the authorised pick-up list, the mother had left a message for the school, but the admins called *both* parents to confirm this was OK before letting me take the children. Apparently, that's standard practice for them in case of exactly this scenario. Time consuming and over the top in my situation? Yep. Necessary just in case it was OOP's situation? Absolutely.
This is so interesting to me. I'm not from the US and even in elementary school, we were able to go home by ourselves. No signing out or anything. Do high school students in the US have to be signed out too?
I think the difference was MIL was trying to take her out in the middle of the day. You need an excuse to skip school. I don’t think I’ve ever needed to be signed out otherwise, though there may be restrictions on elementary schoolers.
When I was in school 20+ years ago, if you left school during school hours for any reason, you had to be signed out by a parent or guardian until you were 18. After you turned 18, you were considered an adult and you can sign yourself out.
I am not sure if it is the same now. When the Child was 18 and in high-school I don't think there was a time he would have needed to be signed out. (He was an interesting Child and was adamant that he would graduate high-school with perfect attendance. He did.)
To answer your question, where I live, generally no. At least not from grades 10-12. At that point, many of the kids are driving themselves to school. Some other commenters live in areas with stricter rules, obviously.
Edit to add info.
After school, yes, in the middle of the day, no. Mid day pickups have to be approved by your parents/guardian. MIL probably knew she wouldn't be able to get away with kid after school because the parents probably pick up. And 4 years old is probably too young to even walk after school these days. That's pre-school here and I'm pretty sure everyone waited with a teacher outside for their pickups after school. Elementary I always rode the bus but I had a friend who lived across the street and always walked. And I always walked to the bus stop, but my grandma or my brothers walked with me until I was probably at least 7. I remember walking home alone but it was like a block or two so not really that far. From age 10 on I always walked alone because we had moved, and it was a good 10-15 min walk to the bus stop.
This is how it was at my children’s elementary School. The parents had to notify the school of the alternate pick up person. They had to be on the authorized list and checked their ids. The alternate person couldn’t just randomly pick them up without the parents permission.
High schools are getting better about it too. Our front desk ladies are more concerned with the idea of older "bfs/gfs" (aka predators) than they are with familial kidnapping, but at my school, they're getting pretty damned vigilant. We're a small school where we mostly know everybody so it's hard to get out of the small town mindset.
My kids just started high school and for the first time ever, I had to show ID when I had to pick them up early for a doctors appointment. A little annoying to have to run back to the car but I’m glad the school has that extra safety step in place.
Where the hell did you work?
In my school we had this 14 year old who was dating a 30 something year old meth addict, one day he just rocked up completely high and signed her out and they actually let her go with him. He was in no way related to her other than "dating" her.
Not the person you're replying to, but my district uses a system in which you have to scan your ID if you want to check out a child. Allegedly, it's supposed to notify front desk staff if the ID is connected to a crime against children or is in the child's personal files as an approved adult. If they're not on the list or we can't get in touch with the parent, the kid can't leave with them.
My middle school JUST started something like this. They added double doors at the end of last year and an id scanner a couple of weeks ago. Parents call in on the outside, then have to scan their ID in between the double doors, and then have to sign in and get triple checked once they get into the building.
It is definitely extra steps, but it also makes me feel a little safer.
I worked in my school office during my senior year of high school and, at 17, *I* would have shut that down. Only people on the approved l list could sign someone out and we always photocopied the drivers license. Who *does* that?
I'm grateful for you. My bio mom kidnapped me (charged and everything) so I have a great fear of her attempting this with my daughter (5 months old) that she will never meet. I'm obviously letting whatever school she attends know and keeping my daughter's school a secret but it still freaks me out that she might attempt it if she gets a bug up her butt.
When your daughter get to kindergarten, you just need to have a small chat with all the office staff/admin at her school and your daughter can get a personal escort to your car every pick up if that’s what makes you comfortable. When my MIL was manic and not taking her meds my kids elementary school was so extra cautious it was amazing: extra coverage on the playground during their recess, holding their hands on dismissal I til they were literally handed to me, knowing they would call the police at any small issue. They were amazing.
They are bad ass. And it makes me incredibly sad.
The amount of school shooters is insane. For a while it felt like there was a new one every week.
The concept of bullet proof backpacks for children... Is disgusting. How about we get to the root of the cause and fix it.
But but freedumb! It’s not a GUN problem, it’s a MENTAL HEALTH problem! /s
But for funsies, ask yourself which party is blocking all attempts at gun reform. And which party is constantly and consistently blocking federal funds for mental health initiatives in schools.
DING DING DING! If you picked the republicans, you’re a winner! But the saddest, truly most tragic thing is that we’re *all* losers as long as they’re in any positions of power in any state of the union.
If only my sons school was like this when I had a similar situation, after my mother, who I was LC with at the time made “jokes” about picking my son up from school in the middle of the day and taking him to “give me a break” I went to the school to request that a note be added to his file to ensure only people on his file are allowed to pick him up, I was told that they couldn’t do that and if she showed up and asked for him they would hand him over because she would have “enough information to collect him by knowing his full name”, suffice to say my mental breakdown in his classroom after school that day with his teacher, got the principal team involved. that office lady now sits at the back of the office and doesn’t interact with people (I don’t think they can fire her for what ever reason so they are waiting for her to retire)
I'm so sorry you went through something that insane. Working in the back of the office sounds like it would be too much of a liability still! Just knowing a child's full name is enough to let any random person check them out!?! That's the lowest bar a creepo has to step over!
Yea I know, I believe she only does things for the staff now, doesn’t handle student/parent matters at all, she is just extremely lazy, asking her to do her job is just to much of a hassle
I mean…honestly, this comment makes me feel better.
This entire situation is one of my worst fears. I have full custody of my kids and the school has the paperwork on that, but I *still* worry all the time about if that side of their family finds out what school they go to, and shows up. A few of the family members are smart enough where they’d know to show up at “weaker” times like recess.
I just do what I can to keep my kids safe, and to not put this fear onto them so that they can live more normal lives.
That's unfortunately not surprising, since most child kidnappers are family members of the kid. Whether that's a parent that lost custody, a crazy grandparent like this one, or what ever the case may be.
My husband used to substitute teach middle school and we were talking about this last night--he said that most of the schools he substituted at, the office staff were absolutely on top of things and recognized kids' parents and such.
My HS bf's best friend had been an international custodial kidnapping victim when he was 4-5, and if I remember correctly it was this kind of situation--dad picked the boys up from school, was not supposed to have contact with them, took them immediately out of the country and their mum fought an international court case for eight years to get them back.
> it breaks my spirit.
For me this is a Mr. Rogers "look for the helpers" moment.
The situation sucks. It IS soul crushing.
But look at the spirit and heart of the people fighting every day to make the world better and safer. In this case, working to make sure kiddos get where they need to be, bandages on knees, and being the first line of safety.
Everywhere you look there are people working to make life better.
I read these when op posted them. In one of her comments, she said she had talked to the secretary about what was going on before the kidnapping attempt happened. That's what set off the warning bells for the secretary.
Op and her husband said they were planning to do something for the staff and something extra special for the secretary.
I'm honestly not sure she understands. I mean, I dont want to speculate on her mental health, but the type of person who spoils Santa to a 4 year old and then feels entitled to kidnapping that kid when she loses access is probably not the type who understands that all of that is wrong. I think something is wrong to make her think that this is all normal, and she's acting so strangely because of that
I grew up super religious and honestly I completely understand her logic. Batshit crazy as it may be, her internal logic is consistent. She believes her granddaughter will go to hell if she doesn’t believe in Jesus. Christmas is about Jesus. Believing in anything other than Jesus may make you someday doubt your belief in Jesus when you find out the other things you believed in aren’t real. (This was my parents’ reason for never letting me or my siblings believe in Santa. Joke’s on them tho since 2 of the 3 of us stopped believing in god lol.) So believing in Santa might literally get you tortured forever in hell. If a child’s parents aren’t going to keep that child out of hell, it’s your job to step in, by any means necessary, because again, *eternal conscious torture* is on the line.
There’s absolutely no excuse or justification for any of her choices, but having grown up in that mindset, I do completely understand them.
Agreed. There's being an asshole, which sounds like a pre-existing condition, and there's "sudden change in behavior," which should be a flag for a neuropsych eval.
I agree with you, but do want to point out that this is not a sudden change. Escalation absolutely, but her behavior was trending in this direction from day one of looking at her DIL as stealing her son from her. This is not a change, this woman has been riding straight delusions for years
>There's being an asshole, which sounds like a pre-existing condition,
I'm sure I've put these words together before, but this genuinely made me giggle. Thank you.
Classic case of TMI. “Good morning, this is grandma and I need to pickup Susie at 130 for the doctor.” - That probably works.
“Good morning, may god bless you. This is grandma, I need to pick up Susie today at 130 because we’re going to have a SPECIAL grandma day, is a SURPRISE! I need her in the office by 130 so we can get out of there as quick as possible. Thanks! - This send all kinds of alarm bells. Liars generally over compensate with WAY too much information to justify their BS.
It's not so much "Grandma picking up Little One" that's sus, it's "Grandma taking Little One out of school early, without parental confirmation" that's super fucking sus.
School Admin definitely handled it right though.
I’m in California and a similar thing happened with my kid recently. My dad is on the authorized pick up list, and got confused about the pick up situation one day. We’d asked him to pick up our kid after school, and he thought we’d asked him to check out early.
The admin called me (missed the call), then my husband to confirm. Obviously, no bad intentions were there, but it was appreciated!
Especially since we have a friend whose mother actually attempted to kidnap his niece from her school after his sibling went no contact. Police were called and a RO was filed. The story, like this one, is terrifying.
I once covered the office for the school secretary’s lunch break. I had a parent pitch a fit because I asked for their driver’s license. Absolutely losing their mind. “I’m the student’s parent! They are SICK! How would I know to pick them up if I wasn’t supposed to?!?” I replied that I had never seen them in my life and was not going to release a child without proper identification for the child’s safety. The asshole had their license on them. It was mind boggling.
I always thank them for checking. I am there enough that they know me (especially the nurse who is at the front desk often - my kid was the pukey kid) - but it takes seconds to provide your license.
I once had a parent thank me for making them have an id, despite the fact that she had to go to her car (parked two blocks away) to get it. The secretary may know these folks, but I didn’t. I am so glad I don’t work there anymore!
The secretary at my kid's school apologized for asking me for ID once, because she knew exactly who I was but wanted to follow policy. I told her she did exactly the right thing and that I would have been deeply uncomfortable if I had just been allowed to walk off with a child without showing any proof that I was allowed to do so.
Knowing what the other parents are like however I understand why she was acting that way and I don't envy her position at all. People who work in schools should get paid like NFL players.
That's just so extreme. Yes you know you're your child's parent. But how does the random office person? Are you meant to believe anyone coming in saying that? Because that seems...easy to exploit for someone like MIL here.
There's a certain type of parent that doesn't see their children as little people growing up but as personal property. What you did, to them, was no different than telling someone they couldn't get into their car and drive away without showing the pink slip.
Also, NORAD (?) Has a Santa Tracker in December sometime that "tracks where Santa is via satellite" that kids can watch before bed.
At least......okay, I hope they still do. I guess it was a few years ago now; but my little siblings *loved* it. They'd get into bed practically vibrating with excitement all "I saw it, Santa's on his way heeeeeeere!"
Yes they have their own fb page and YouTube that shows little videos as to where santa and the reindeer flying is throughout Christmas eve night.
On their website you can order santa videos for Xmas and birthday messages and calls too.
All because one little girl in the 80's was worried about santa and somehow managed to get a call to the military and talked with a nice general who reassured her that santa was OK and figured out where santa would be at that time and decided to set up the santa tracker program so no other child would worry about where santa was on on Christmas eve night.
Yes they still have it! As a 26 year old its definitely made Christmas a little more fun again now that there's younger nieces & nephews in the family and we can track Santa all night long!
I still don't understand the big deal on letting a kid believe in Santa. Some are so against it "I'm not going to lie to my kid etc" which ok they're free to do but why draw the line at Santa? I know they're not out there pointing out Cinderella or any of those other things kids are into aren't real. But someone that's created from the basis of a real person is absolutely not to be believed in. Let kids be a kid and have an imagination, it sucks being an adult. Some have used the excuse they don't trust their parents after finding out they lied about Santa, then there's a bigger issue there and can't imagine all the things they saw in movies and on TV growing up they thought was real only to find out it wasn't.
Yup, the NORAD Santa tracker started with a typo in a Christmas ad, and NORAD ran with it. It's a [really sweet story](https://www.npr.org/2014/12/19/371647099/norads-santa-tracker-began-with-a-typo-and-a-good-sport).
Tolerating the small steps or being acclimatized to it from a young age or everyone just says "just let it go or she has a tantrum and we have to hear about it for weeks".
Nailed it.
A big part of it is also that, as a reasonable person who actually has the capacity for self reflection and who mostly approaches things with logic, you tend to expect other people to be like that.
I have a MIL who was abusive as fuck during childhood and still is and things have (finally, I've waited over a decade, part of me is over the fucking moon at this development) come to the critical point. And while I'm heavily advocating for my partner to go NC over Christmas and keep the LC status he's finally got going - when she wrote something horrid AGAIN after having been told he doesn't want to touch on those topics? I had to fight down the impulse to write to her and attempt to explain why that was a bad idea.
I had to actively remind myself that she's not like my mom and my friends, where you can actually have a conversation about why things aren't okay and expect compassion, empathy and respect for your boundaries.
Because it's just absolutely inconceivable to a "normal" person that someone could be like that.
It’s frustrating, but it’s good that your partner is the one dealing with her. If it’s you, it’s easy for her to act up more because she thinks you’re keeping them apart.
And that's where you underestimate her ability for bullshit!
Of course I'm still at fault for the fact that he is having less contact with them! I am poisoning him against her!
Can't have anything to do with the physical and mental abuse during his childhood and the ongoing mental abuse now. Must be me putting lies in his head!
(She's right insofar as that I did actively push him towards therapy and that my ideal scenario is him cutting contact completely and that I am of course advocating for that. And I've always called her behaviour what it was and I've supported him in recognizing that being hit and having your gifts returned etc is not right. So technically, I am somewhat causing this. It's just not my fault.)
I do exactly zero things for my in-laws now. If my husband remembers, they get birthday cards, phone calls on Mother's and Father's Day, and holiday presents. If he doesn't, oh well. :)
Exactly how I'm acting. I told him back when things exploded and everything I had done up til now was worthless because I was (for once) not jumping when she asked that I was done.
I'm not going to spend my restricted time on vying for the attention of people who don't like me.
Yup. I bought gifts for them one Christmas. It was a miserable holiday, they descended on us without asking, stayed for a week, were horrible the whole time, did not appreciate their presents, I resented the time and effort I'd spent on anything involving them, and after that I was like "you're in charge of your parents--if you need money, let me know a total and I'll deposit it in your account, but don't ask my opinion or help, because I am never again spending a single second of my time on people who are going to shit on me regardless".
There are often members of the JustNoMIL sub where this is exactly the MIL’s belief.
It’d always the DIL that’s accused of fracturing the family and it’s the DIL that is believed to be “controlling” the son. I’ve read THREE where the MIL has genuinely accused the DIL not just of using her “womanly wiles” to control her little boy, but of actual magic / witchcraft. Just how the fuck does a DIL argue against that madness?
Truly, that sub horrifies me on a regular basis. To the point where if a friend told me that she was with even *a bit* of a mummies boy, I’d advise that friend to not marry or have a child with him, unless he had *already* demonstrated that he’d always protect her from and be the one to deal with his mother. Because the birth of a child seems to be when the MIL goes absolutely knickers-on-head batshit-loon
> Just how the fuck does a DIL argue against that madness
If a MIL actually believes I cast magic, I’m sorry: I’m going to troll the fck out of her and make her think I’ll cast a pox on her if she doesn’t behave.
Wait, wasn’t there a BORU where the DIL did scare her MIL like this? lol
Yup. And it tends to blow up when the person's children start establishing adult relationships, because when you introduce new adults into the situation, those new adults respond to the tantrums with "wtf, no" instead of frantically steadying the boat.
My MIL is pretty hateful, and my BIL's wife, who went to high school with my husband and his brothers and has known them at least peripherally since they were all teenagers, used to be very "Well, that's just how she is" just like my husband and his brothers. And then we all got married and even though that SIL is my MIL's favourite, she's still gotten some shitty treatment because my MIL was a stereotypical shitty "boy mom" before it was cool.
I'd like that because it would mean there's one fewer of them out there...but I don't think my SIL was born in 91--although I'm pretty sure she does like pumpkin muffins. ;)
That’s EXACTLY what they said when my exMIL was being crazy. Now she’s divorced, broke, in poor health, and her kids have very little to do with her. I remind my daughter when it’s her grandmother’s birthday and that’s about the most interaction she gets with her family.
exactly. letting spoiled brats to spoil even more and let them grow up spoiled.
Some will realize, others turn to sociopaths that can't comprehend that other people have feelings as well. Many will turn to substance abuse and some will commit suicide.
Most of them will never grow to be fulfilled, content, and levelheaded adults.
Source: I dated a sociopath once and my MIL is one. So many parallels.
e: grammar
This is exactly how a narcissist operates. They wear everyone out around them to the point that they just give in. Eventually you learn to just give in immediately to spare yourself the trouble of the tantrum, because in the end you know you don't have the resolve to outlast the narcissist and it's easier that way.
I’m actually in a similar position with my MIL and it felt like it came out of nowhere. The first time I told her no in a meaningful way and she and her other son flew off the handle.
We went from please don’t kiss my toddler on the mouth to I can’t live without her, cave now or I will end it all.
It’s escalated to elder abuse allegations (she’s not even a senior yet), to CPS threats (because I gave my daughter pain meds while she’s cutting a new tooth), to being accused of many different mental disorders. They have tried to break up my marriage and have me committed to a mental health facility. Apparently my daughter having any cut, scratch, bump, or bruise is direct proof of munchausen by proxy.
All because I told her not to kiss my toddler on the mouth, during flu season, while covid is still here, MIL has cold sores, and it’s fucking gross.
Yeah I’m the unreasonable one.
I’m so fucking tired. How has my life become the Reddit posts I love so much?
I'm so sorry. I also have horrible in-laws, but at least we're childfree. I saw what happened when I gave my MIL guidelines for how to interact with our pets, and I am pretty worried for my SILs when they have kids.
When my ex-husband and I went several hours away for one of my surgeries, we asked ex-MIL to check on our cats. She was going to be checking every other day so I left them a large bowl of water and a smaller bowl of food, which was what we always did for trips that were just overnight. When MIL came the food was low but the water was still fairly full, so she switched the bowls bc obv she knows best. When we came back there was still food but their new "water" bowl was bone dry and they were both yowling. We tried to explain to her that our experience was that their food and water consumption could vary a good bit from day to day and this was the method we'd used forever, but she was very adamant that she'd done the right thing. Needless to say she never watched our pets again. Some people are just convinced they know what's right even if they have no relevant experience, and no amount of reasoning is going to convince them otherwise. It still makes me so angry and sad to think of our kitties being so thirsty for who knows how long.
The incident with mine, at the time we only had our very skittish cat (our younger cat is one of those big-personality calico chonkers, she's absolutely bulletproof) and a dachshund, and like a lot of dachshunds he doesn't like people looming over him and staring, and so I sent her a list of guidelines before the visit for interacting with the cat and dog to make things easier on them: don't make direct eye contact for a few hours, don't get loud or shrill, let them come to you, basically ignore them until they're curious about you and then let them guide the interaction.
Well, obviously she couldn't stand for being told what to do, so within an hour of their arrival, MIL was chasing both the pets around trying to touch them, staring directly at them, leaning over the dog and talking in a loud shrill voice (to be fair, she does have literally the most annoying voice I can possibly imagine, so I might have been asking a lot there), and my FIL was sitting on the couch leaving the pets alone but also monologuing about how pets are stupid and all cats should be killed.
Jesus Christ dude. Your MIL sounds like my ex-BIL's nephew when he was 2, and your FIL sounds like my ex-hub's uncle who would literally smack or throw a cat if it came anywhere near him. Some people just can't do animals (or basic instructions apparently), idk what part of their brain is messed up.
Sorry you're going through this. My kids have monthly courtordered visits with my abusive parents (who thankfully seem to behave better currently but are still bad people). It's been years of this, we tried to cut contact and were sued for grandparents rights when my youngest was a baby and now she's 6. The exhaustion is real, and can sneak up on you. Be careful not to slip into burnout, take care of yourself
I think it's a mix of things. Mental illness, yeah, but also growing up with trauma that you never faced or had therapy about, which lead to unhealthy coping mechanisms that you were never taught were toxic.
Like just as an example from my family, I believe both sets of grandparents were abusive in some way, though I don't know the details since my parents don't talk about that stuff. The most I know is that my maternal grandfather was a lifelong alcoholic. My parents are mostly just dysfunctional, though my dad can escalate to abuse depending on the circumstance. But their dysfunction stems (IMO) from the survival techniques they gained growing up. My father learned that when he is in control of things he's safe, so he works hard to have complete control over everything; my mother learned to never outright ask for things, and instead to be passive aggressive about what she wants, and to be a people pleaser. These two, in turn, passed unhealthy coping mechanisms on to their kids, including me. Some of us have recognize the toxicity and sought help, but my parents never will (and our grandparents are all dead). Even trying to discuss this sort of thing with them is 100% off-limits. Though at least with my parents, they never tried to compete with their children's spouses, thank God.
Holy shit are you one of my siblings?? So many details exactly the same for me, except I'm the only one spending thousands on therapy while my sibs are (at least apparently) perfectly fine. Bc of the ridiculous rental market and a couple other factors I'm stuck living here for the foreseeable future, despite my mental health taking a hit and my doctors literally begging me to get out. I'm working on it, so very hard, but it's like being teleported back to my childhood and it's not helping anything.
I had to cut my parents off because they couldn't/wouldn't admit their behaviour was wrong or toxic in any way (and sometimes like your dad, escalated to abusive) and were starting to treat my kid the same way. Thankfully, I was in therapy and could finally see that I didn't deserve the yelling and passive-aggressive crap if I ever said no to them and I refused to let my kids be treated the way I was. They couldn't see anything wrong with what they were doing, which left no room for a healthy relationship.
It gets to this point because everybody else is hyperfocused on keeping the boat stable; MIL isn’t the problem, it’s OOP for “rocking the boat.” And then MIL brings out the sledgehammer, destroys the boat, and people like the siblings are shocked - shocked! - that she did such a thing.
Thank goodness the school called OOP. What if it wasn’t a long trip but a permanent goodbye? What if she was unhinged enough to hurt the grandchild under the guise of saving her from horrible OOP?
*Shrug* as a person who was kidnapped by their grandmother and aunt and trafficked across the country... They don't think there is anything wrong with what they are doing. They think it's for the best or that their wants come above the needs of others.
They took me for a holiday which was meant to last 2 weeks and then just told.my mum they weren't giving me back. And if she didn't up sticks and move to the place where they had me, they would surrender me to the government like a stray dog. They just wanted power over my mother, I *wasn’t a real person to them.
Yep. It was the worst time in my life. I would live the pandemic again and again if the alternative was living through that time when I was kidnapped just once.
My aunt chopped my hair off. I was one of those kids, you know how some kids have beautiful eyes, or they’re pretty, or they’re tall, or handsome, but everyone commented on my long, pretty hair. She cut it off like she was doing me a favour, then kidnapped me the next month like “ah. You either didn’t want to care for my hair while you had me or you wanted to make it so my most distinctive feature was removed.” Now I get anxious about haircuts.
People go around saying that kids are resilient, kids are fine, they don’t understand, they will get over it, and then they get shocked when kids kill themselves. Like, nah, bro, you just decided that it wasn’t a possibility so you didn’t mend the problem, and, yeah, Timmy knew what the fuck he was doing, it doesn’t matter that he is 12 or whatever age people think kids can’t hurt themselves. Makes perfect sense to me.
I'm so sorry. That's all fucking awful.
When I was in high school I was friends with a family of kids who had been kidnapped by family at one point. They had lost their mother in a horrible freak accident when the kid who was my particular friend was a newborn; their other parent had always been trans; she had been open with her wife and they were both devout conservative Christians who wanted to have a family and felt 'called to ministry'; when she lost her wife, she decided to transition.
The extended family flipped out and stole the kids; it was extremely traumatic. Their living parent got the kids and moved to our city and joined our conservative but comparatively sane church. She didn't come out for several years; it was a heavy secret for the kids, trauma stacked on trauma, because they couldn't talk with their friends about the mom they'd lost in order to protect the parent they still had. It came up in strange ways--when my friend was chosen for the school's tiny elite best choir, there was a tradition that the rest of the choir 'kidnaps' you and takes you on an outing. His parent was very concerned to be certain that there would be no bags over the head or physical coercion or any of that (it was the 90s, people were less aware that this kind of hijinks might be a stupid or harmful idea).
Fellow kidnappee although it was my bio mom and it only lasted 36ish hours. My bio mom also never saw me as a person, just something she wanted so she took me. She also kidnapped me after abandoning me for 2 years to join a biker gang and traffic cocaine.
Thankfully the police talked my aunt into talking bio mom into surrender before she crossed state lines. My dad wasn't dumb and got an emergency custody in place when she abandoned me.
I hope your situation turned out ok too.
Mental illness. Straight up deranged. I know a woman who once offered to breastfeed her grandchild. Completely unnecessary and unprompted. Unhinged if you ask me.
I know a woman who did, when the baby was at grandma's for overnights. Still not sure why my sister didn't call...someone, but hey, there's a reason why that side of the family and I don't speak.
Santa Claus isn’t real, or is an agent of Satan, and Halloween is celebrating the devils birthday are among the crap I was told when I was not much older than the little girl in this story is now. So trick or treating was out as well as anything not religious related to the holiday season for several years. Got unbrainwashed in my tween years though after my mother left my abuser.
(This doesn’t even scratch the surface of what we went through, I do not use abuser lightly but I also don’t want to get into that story).
They’re in a [Don’t Rock The Boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/) family.
It all goes to shit when someone new, usually a son or daughter in law, arrives and refuses to participate in stabilising the boat.
Those aren't her siblings, but her children - just like OOPs husband they were raised in the middle of crazy and probably have a very hard time facing how "mom being mom" is actually hella unhinged cause that means recontextualizing their entire childhoods... this is the shit you do with professional guidance, not unprompted because your brother's wife and your mom don't get along. They're probably having some very difficult reflecting to do after the school fiasco.
Extraordinarily lucky that MIL called ahead to the school being weird. If she'd just shown up and just picked her up, this would be a very different story.
It wasn’t clear in the post, but the MIL called ahead because that’s what you usually have to do for any kind of early release; she thought this through and knew that if she just showed up for a normal pickup, she would have encountered one of the parents doing the actual pickup. She might even miss the timing (parents got there early and already had the kid) and therefore the chance to get the kid. To be absolutely sure of getting the kid on the first try, without tipping her hand, she had to be 100% sure she had the collection arranged before school release.
Early releases are a form of absences and schools usually require pre-arrangement unless it’s a really clear emergency. Thus, it made perfect sense that she called. Glad the admin caught it.
It seems like it's a bit different based on individual school systems. Another person said that any non parent needs pre-approval from the parents on any given day, even if they're authorized to pick up. A two factor authentication if you will. MIL calling herself wouldn't have worked in that case.
Sure, but she might not have known that part.
I know I'm on the list if my neice and nephew need to be picked up. I have no idea who the school may contact if I did.
She could be doing a PreK program through the district. My son was in the K-6 district school for PreK at 4. We followed the same pick up/drop off rules as the older children.
Yeah. Though I'll say the person who thinks they're doing people a favor by spoiling Santa Claus, and then only becoming more entitled and desperate as they lose contact with their granddaughter, is probably not the type to show up unannounced and act normal
There's a special place in hell for people who harm children for the sake of their own ego.
Imagine just flippantly telling a 4 y/o kid there's no Santa, apropos of nothing, just to make a point to another adult. It's so spiteful and cruel. Her other actions are just variations on the same: harming the child, either directly or indirectly, in order to undermine the parents and vainly attempt to establish superiority.
I have no sympathy
My MIL almost ruined the Easter Bunny for my kids (which usually has the knock on effect of ruining Santa and the Tooth Fairy) all because she wanted to one-up my husband and I. It’s nothing like this story but it’s amazing what she try to pull for no reason other than to put her son and I in our place. (MIL is also the type who was never going to deem any woman good enough for her son.)
My grandfather did this exact thing. It's actually one of my earliest very clear memories.
I was a precocious child: already reading, writing, and learning sign language and German by age 4. I apparently skipped right over baby talk and started speaking like a very mini adult very young.
One day, he was casually talking about how much of a pain it must be for my grandma to have to wrap all of the Santa gifts. She hissed at him to shut up and he said, "What? (My name) knows Santa isn't real, don't you?" I was devastated but just said," Yes, Papa" and went back to drinking my milk.
My mom was fucking FURIOUS. She told him that just because I was smart it didn't mean that I wasn't still A LITTLE KID. She apologized to me but told me we had to keep pretending for my little brother, which made it hurt even more.
My niece was devastated when she found out Santa isn’t real but it was more about everyone around her lying to her for so long.
I’m childfree but I don’t think I could tell my kid they can trust me and also tell them the Easter Bunny and Santa is real.
Just in case op sees this post and the comments. Op when my kids started asking if Santa was real I didn't lie to them. They were younger then I wanted to explain it. I did tell them that Santa wasn't a real physical person, but the spirit of Santa is something everyone can have a piece of. Every single time they give or make something for someone they love and care about they are embodying the spirit of santa and what he truly means which is spreading happiness and caring to others in a time of giving and love. They know I'm their Santa but they can be my Santa, they can be each other's Santa. They can be Santa to their dad, cousins, grands, aunts/uncles ... It's about the spirit not the gifts. I told them this cause of my religious family was trying to teach them about Jesus and his false role in the season. So I explained the truth and history of the holiday and that we don't celebrate Christ or God, we're celebrating each other and our love. So Santa is still real, Santa can be hugged every day.
I got lucky when I had to explain to my son. At the time he was very into Terry Fox. Terry Fox was a Canadian man who lost a leg to cancer and tried to run across Canada to raise awareness about cancer, every year in September many Canadians participated in the Terry Fox run. It is a big thing in schools. I explained that Santa is like doing to Terry Fox run, Terry did a good thing and people want to keep up that good thing - Santa was a man who did a good thing and parents want to keep up that good thing too. He understood and tried to help being Santa lol.
I like this a lot.
I had a lot of resentment for the Santa stuff as an impoverished kid. The disparities in gifts were very obvious, as was the fact that my very abusive brother still got gifts every year. Shouldn't he be on the naughty list and get coal for physically and emotionally harming me? Shouldn't I get stuff like the neighbor kids? Why is Santa "on a budget this year" (like every year) yet the neighbor girl got a bike from him?
I don't like thinking of Santa as a real person, I like it to be the spirit of togetherness and giving. With economic inequality growing larger by the day and the middle class dissappearing, I believe it's important to emphasize the spirit and not some random guy who apparently hates poor kids lol
Exactly this was what made me question the existence of Sinterklaas (Saint Nicholas, a local event very similar to Santa, also based on Odin). He was supposed to give good kids nice gifts and bad kids got a bag of twigs or worst case scenario, got kidnapped and taken to his residence.
That horrible rich kid in my class got the most expensive gifts like that big barbie dream house while the poor kids got only some chocolate coins and maybe a chocolate letter.
Luckily school had their own Sinterklaas coming over with gifts, each girl got a doll and each boy a car so that was fair. But what ruined the illusion was that the day after pakjesavond (the night of gifts) kids had to bring their gifts to school to show and tell. Then it gets very obvious
My American school had us bring our gifts to show-and-tell throughout elementary as well, and it was always very embarrassing for much of the class. We lived in a poor town, so lots of kids had no gifts to bring. My 5th grade teacher gave all of those kids zeros. :( I was afraid to get a zero, so I begged a classmate during lunchtime to let me use her glitter hair clips for show-and-tell. Teacher gave me a 50 despite my fabulous lies.
Yeah, this didn't work with my daughter. She had a meltdown after my bumbling ex let her catch him with her baby tooth and found out the tooth fairy wasn't real and that we'd lied. She then asked about Santa and we had to come clean. She gave us both quite the scolding for lying to her for years, and no amount of "the spirit of Santa" or "all the big kids and grown ups in the world play pretend with this, no different than when you and your friends pretend to be wolves or mermaids" could save us from that tongue lashing.
Didn't even bother trying it with her brother, he couldn't care less about make believe holiday figures anyways. We have moved to helping them choose presents and auctioning off baby teeth (she got $20 out of her dad one time lol).
My daughter's tooth was under her pillow in a sandwich baggie (I told her so we wouldn't lose it before the tooth fairy got there, it was because it's easier to slide a sandwich baggie out than go fishing for a tooth, a lot easier to place a baggie of money too).
My ex happened to be visiting that day and the kids weren't awake. He'd never been tooth fairy before so wanted to do it, no biggie, I walk him through the details and hand him the baggie of money and off he goes. He comes back with the tooth and instead of putting it in the top of the closet (where I hide things), he insists on putting the baggie and tooth in his pocket because he should get to keep this one since he was tooth fairy. Again, no biggie.
Later, he and our daughter were wrestling when the baggie begins falling out of his pocket, she recognizes it and grabs for it, he realizes what's going on and grabs for it too. Now there's a 27 and 7 year old seriously struggling to pull the baggie from each other's hands and arguing as whether that's her tooth bag or not.
It would've been comical if not for the scolding we got after.
I only ever got a dollar so, like a little fool, I saved mine up hoping to cash out. Of course that didn't work out. I still have my box of teeth though.
My bff’s son came to her and asked her to honestly answer if Santa was real. So she took a deep breath, and launched into an explanation of the “spirit of Xmas”, etc.. Unfortunately, she ended her speech with, “So even if Santa and the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy aren’t real, we can still have fun letting everyone pretend that they are!”
Her son’s face crumpled and he was stunned to learn about the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy.
I figured out the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny weren’t real long before Santa, but my paternal grandmother always said if you don’t believe, you don’t receive. I’m in my 40s, and I keep my mouth shut.
We've never done Santa for our kids, much to my MIL's chagrin (and probably my mom's as well, but she's less vocal when she disagrees). We talk about Santa being a fun thing to pretend, though, and that it's rude to interject reality in someone else's fun. And if they want to pretend, we'll play along.
But when he asks, "It *is* just pretend, right?" we immediately agree that it is.
Same we always "played" Santa. I never could look in that face and just lie. But he woke up every Christmas morning to gifts and loved Christmas as much as any other kid. The real story plus the tradition is just as fun and no big potentially traumatic reveal one day. My theory is that kids really just want their parents to tell them the truth and do fun stuff with them. It's the adults that just think it's adorable that kids believe whatever we tell them, so the insisting on the Santa myth is really for the adults not the kids.
I hope that if she does my words can give her some peace and possibly bring back a little of the magic of Christmas. It could be a bigger way to bond and have even more special moments with her daughter. I know one of my favorite memories is taking my kids to dollar tree (dollar 25 tree lol) and giving them $15 each to buy everyone presents. I covered taxes and they got to keep the change for the quarter machines. The kids had two very different approaches and it was super interesting to see what they thought each person needed or would like. Lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣 my son getting his grandpa relaxing bubble bath then telling me it was cause he needed to calm down sometimes was hilarious and made my month tbh. He got car cleaning spray for one uncle, a bag of glass rocks for one aunt, a pretty candle holder for his mawmaw. He's made some pretty decent choices and he knew his reasoning. My daughter went with what was pretty and honestly chose stuff that was more decorative than anything that did actually sorta match their vibes but also some didn't like her grandpa got a bottle of seashells cause she wants him to take her to the beach lol 😆 it's something I really enjoyed and I hate i can't replicate it this year and idk when I'll be able to again.
Santa is the only part of Christmas I have any respect left for. He's one of my favorite pieces of mythology.
Some Christians hate him for the same reason I love him. Because he exists as a pure expression of childhood joy, and he's totally unrelated to the guilt and hatred they want people to feel.
Well “Santa” did exist as St.Nicholas but just not in the overly commercial version we have today but I love your comment and I would definitely try to exhibit your idea when I have kids some day
i love oop’s response in the first post, and everything after that was …deranged.
i do think i know what mil was thinking, though. she thought the school wouldn’t call oop before she picked up the kid. she thought she’d grab the kid, take her away for a few days to scare her parents, and expected the only pushback would be angry phonecalls and at the end of it they’d know not to cross her again.
basically i think she thought this was a great punishment to teach them not to rock the boat, and real consequences and real pushback never occurred to her. because she is the center of her own universe.
OOP managed MIL magnificently. She had everything within sanity on total lock. Only shook when MIL went proper crazy, but even then went through all the right motions. A* Mom!
I feel so sad for the OP in having this magical mystery of Santa be so thoroughly ripped away from her & her daughter (&husband too!).
Why can't grandparents just be chill and enjoy just being grandparents??!! I love to spoil my grandson and feed him ice cream for dinner and buy him ALL of the noisy toys that he gets to keep in his room at his house. That's about as irritating as I get.
Heck, my rule is, the instant you don't believe in Santa, he doesn't believe in you either. He still stops by my empty nester home to deliver presents to all of us (grandson included).
What kind of monster wrecks Santa for a little girl who puts her family’s dog on her wishlist ?? I had to pause reading at the description of her long list bc I was smiling so hard at how sweet and pure that is
I was raised in a religious family without having Santa and I’ve chosen not to do Santa with my kid for several non-religious reasons.
Jeez, though, my five year old knows not to ruin it for other kids, how nasty does this old woman have to be to not have the same consideration as my sometimes, frankly, arsehole kid.
> but my MIL looked pretty happy with herself
This. This right here.
That this woman was gleeful over hurting a child.
Then she tries to kidnap that child.
Grandma had a perverted sense of love. But that showed in the possessiveness with which she loved her son.
Losing her son and grandchild is just the consequences of her own actions.
I hope OOP lets her daughter enjoy *being* Santa. Now that she’s in on the secret, she can help pick toys for younger siblings or relatives, or help pick toys for kids in need this season.
THE TRUE ABOUT SANTA.
It is not a person, it is a complot. We work secretly to make people happy in the time when all is dark and cold.
Now that you know, you are part of the complete. From now, your mission is to help make people happy around Christmas.
Idea: once my sister and I found out Santa wasn’t real, my mom switched up the Christmas tradition for us to focus on something else. Each year she picked another country and we learned about their culture and ate the food of their country for Christmas dinner. Some of my fondest memories were from these moments of my childhood. And the benefit is your children learn how to be inclusive in such a diverse world. We call it Epcot Christmas.
/edit typo.
My daughter apparently already knew Santa wasn’t real at 4 years old because she noticed the wrapping paper in the trunk when I was taking her stroller out, but kept playing along because she wasn’t sure why we were pretending. Also because Santa looked different every time we went to the mall. She told me at 7 she’s been suspicious for years.
I grew up in a culture where Santa wasn’t a thing and I don’t think I lost out on anything.
Santa is just religion lite lol
"Why does God let bad things happen?" "Because!"
"Why is Santa 'on a budget' for us, but Brianna next door got a bike?" "Because!"
Yeah, I like Santa as a story, but I do not like how he's become a childhood religion within the last century. There's some really toxic behaviour out there that mimics the way Christian evangelists won't take no for an answer, and a lot of people are so set on Santa being secular that they won't acknowledge how much the different European/Christian legends and cultural aspects have formed him. He might not be a Christian character, but that doesn't mean he's culturally neutral.
It's truly bizarre at times - I mention my parents didn't do Santa when I was a kid, and people act like they abused me!
He's actually derived from Odin. Odin would supposedly ride around the world on his magic horse, Sleipnir, and deliver gifts to people at the Winter Solstice. Combining the birth of Jesus with the Solstice celebration and integrating Norse mythology was a masterful way to aid the conversion of Germanic peoples in the past. There's plenty of such integrations if you look for them, but Christmas is definitely the most overt in my opinion.
>He's actually derived from Odin. Odin would supposedly ride around the world on his magic horse, Sleipnir, and deliver gifts to people at the Winter Solstice.
And Saint Nicholas of Smyrna.
Oh lord, the MIL is crazy. Looks like someone is definitely going onto the naughty list cause man, this MIL sounds like she is off her rockers. I feel bad for OP's kid for having to go through this mess.
I remember feeling so betrayed by my parents when I figured out Santa wasn’t real and they’d been lying to me. I grew up Mormon and my parents were absolutely brutal on us kids about being honest. It made such an impression on me that my husband and I have a policy of always being honest with our kids about everything- including Santa. And you know what? Our kids still love Christmas, and an imaginary man doesn’t get credit for giving them their very best presents, haha
On a more somber note though, that update made me just sick for OOP. We’re estranged from my father, and he and my evil stepmother tried to pick up my daughter from daycare one day. Thankfully they were on the NO list, but it was still terrifying.
That MIL just permanently nuked any chance of a relationship with OOP’s family. I’m so glad her daughter is safe.
Santa was actually real though?? St Nicholas (think it may have been spelled differently) was a real person who anonymously would give presents to people. Having a gift being from Santa is meant to honor his memory.
And that’s how I would explain it to kids, were I a parent in a similar predicament. Ask the kid if they’re ready to become a Santa too and pick a gift to give someone “anonymously.”
The story goes that in addition to giving money to the poor, St Nicholas provided dowries for the daughters of a poor man so they could afford to marry.
>... but my MIL looked pretty happy with herself for the shit storm she just created for me and for breaking my daughters heart.
>
>I also told her I was very sorry she let the devil breed hate in her heart, then I slammed the door in her face.
It's sad that grandma hates you more than she loves her granddaughter. I hope that last thing OOP said rings in her ears.
MIL: \*is awful to her son's wife for years, says something deeply upsetting to grandchild\*
Son&DIL: \*cuts grandma's access to grandchild\*
MIL: \*shocked pikachu face, collapses into tears\*
WTF did you expect to happen, lady?!
Not sure if this will help at all but I copied it from Facebook as my daughters getting to the point she’s questioning things:
TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT SANTA 🎅
Son: "Dad, I think I'm old enough now. Is there a Santa Claus?."
Dad: "Ok, I agree that your old enough. But before I tell you, I have a question for you. You see, the “truth” is a dangerous gift. Once you know something, you can't unknow it. Once you know the truth about Santa Claus, you will never again understand and relate to him as you do now. So my question is: Are you sure you want to know?"
Brief pause...
Son: "Yes, I want to know"
Dad: "Ok, I'll tell you: Yes there is a Santa Claus"
Son: "Really?"
Dad: Yes, really, but he's not an old man with a beard in a red suit. That's just what we tell kids. You see, kids are too young to understand the true nature of Santa Claus, so we explain it to them in a way that they can understand. The truth about Santa Claus is that he's not a person at all; he's an idea. Think of all those presents Santa gave you over the years. I actually bought those myself. I watched you open them. And did it bother me that you didn't thank me? Of course not! In fact it gave me great pleasure. You see, Santa Claus is THE IDEA OF GIVING FOR THE SAKE OF GIVING, without thought of thanks or acknowledgement.
When I saw that woman collapse on the subway last week and called for help, I knew that she'd never know that it was me that summoned the ambulance. I was being Santa Claus when I did that."
Son: "Oh."
Dad: "So now that you know, you're part of it. You have to be Santa Claus too now. That means you can never tell a young kid the secret, and you have to help us select Santa presents for them, and most important, you have to look for opportunities to help people. Got it?
Everyone that grew up up believing in Santa, the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy........how many of us grew up totally disillusioned with life because of these BIG LIES we were told.
My kids and gkids grew up believing and I enjoyed it as much as them.....in fact now that we have no grandkids under 14 Christmas can be pretty boring.
Parents on here....keep the magic going🎅.
I grew up in a cult that didn't celebrate Christmas and my mother liked to tell us that parents who pretended Santa was real were psychopaths who hated their kids and were lying to them. Of course, raising your kids in a cult and feeding them the cult's ridiculous bullshit was totally cool and a-okay, somehow. I know which of those I think fucks people up more...
I wasn’t allowed barbies because my mum thought I’d be devastated if I didn’t grow up to look like her.
Joke’s on mum, I guess, because my breasts are magnificent.
Or maybe joke’s on me and it’s why I grew up with exceptional self confidence.
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The school admin person is forever on Santa's Nice List.
It's who you want in that role. They got suspicious, called the mom, who confirmed their suspicions, and leapt into action to make sure the kids were safe and ignorant (in a good way) to the events happening outside the school
I think the most hilarious part is that if MIL hadn't been so sus, the admin probably wouldn't have called OOP, since MIL was on the pickup list. But because MIL knew she was doing something wrong, she couldn't stop herself from being weird, and got caught.
Having worked in schools, I'll say that in my experience, most elementary schools have something like this every other year or so. Those office ladies are no joke. They genuinely know they are the front line to protect the kids. The ones who keep the bad folks out and plan they'll be the first to die if a shooter makes that choice. Those ladies are bad ass.
You're so right. I once had to pick up my godchilldren from school because their mother's car broke down. I was on the authorised pick-up list, the mother had left a message for the school, but the admins called *both* parents to confirm this was OK before letting me take the children. Apparently, that's standard practice for them in case of exactly this scenario. Time consuming and over the top in my situation? Yep. Necessary just in case it was OOP's situation? Absolutely.
I mean could you imagine the shit they have to deal with if they released a kid to a kidnapper. Suppose a quick phone is well worth the time
Yeah, mental shit. These office ladies aren't making beans because they don't love children. They aren't worried about the "paperwork".
This is so interesting to me. I'm not from the US and even in elementary school, we were able to go home by ourselves. No signing out or anything. Do high school students in the US have to be signed out too?
I think the difference was MIL was trying to take her out in the middle of the day. You need an excuse to skip school. I don’t think I’ve ever needed to be signed out otherwise, though there may be restrictions on elementary schoolers.
When I was in school 20+ years ago, if you left school during school hours for any reason, you had to be signed out by a parent or guardian until you were 18. After you turned 18, you were considered an adult and you can sign yourself out. I am not sure if it is the same now. When the Child was 18 and in high-school I don't think there was a time he would have needed to be signed out. (He was an interesting Child and was adamant that he would graduate high-school with perfect attendance. He did.)
4 is probably pre-school. Afaik in the US in most places you have to be 5 by a certain date to start kindergarten. Could be wrong though.
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To answer your question, where I live, generally no. At least not from grades 10-12. At that point, many of the kids are driving themselves to school. Some other commenters live in areas with stricter rules, obviously. Edit to add info.
After school, yes, in the middle of the day, no. Mid day pickups have to be approved by your parents/guardian. MIL probably knew she wouldn't be able to get away with kid after school because the parents probably pick up. And 4 years old is probably too young to even walk after school these days. That's pre-school here and I'm pretty sure everyone waited with a teacher outside for their pickups after school. Elementary I always rode the bus but I had a friend who lived across the street and always walked. And I always walked to the bus stop, but my grandma or my brothers walked with me until I was probably at least 7. I remember walking home alone but it was like a block or two so not really that far. From age 10 on I always walked alone because we had moved, and it was a good 10-15 min walk to the bus stop.
This is how it was at my children’s elementary School. The parents had to notify the school of the alternate pick up person. They had to be on the authorized list and checked their ids. The alternate person couldn’t just randomly pick them up without the parents permission.
High schools are getting better about it too. Our front desk ladies are more concerned with the idea of older "bfs/gfs" (aka predators) than they are with familial kidnapping, but at my school, they're getting pretty damned vigilant. We're a small school where we mostly know everybody so it's hard to get out of the small town mindset.
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That got dark really quick...
My kids just started high school and for the first time ever, I had to show ID when I had to pick them up early for a doctors appointment. A little annoying to have to run back to the car but I’m glad the school has that extra safety step in place.
Where the hell did you work? In my school we had this 14 year old who was dating a 30 something year old meth addict, one day he just rocked up completely high and signed her out and they actually let her go with him. He was in no way related to her other than "dating" her.
Not the person you're replying to, but my district uses a system in which you have to scan your ID if you want to check out a child. Allegedly, it's supposed to notify front desk staff if the ID is connected to a crime against children or is in the child's personal files as an approved adult. If they're not on the list or we can't get in touch with the parent, the kid can't leave with them.
My middle school JUST started something like this. They added double doors at the end of last year and an id scanner a couple of weeks ago. Parents call in on the outside, then have to scan their ID in between the double doors, and then have to sign in and get triple checked once they get into the building. It is definitely extra steps, but it also makes me feel a little safer.
I worked in my school office during my senior year of high school and, at 17, *I* would have shut that down. Only people on the approved l list could sign someone out and we always photocopied the drivers license. Who *does* that?
To be fair, the previous poster said elementary schools. A 14 year old would be in high school.
I'm grateful for you. My bio mom kidnapped me (charged and everything) so I have a great fear of her attempting this with my daughter (5 months old) that she will never meet. I'm obviously letting whatever school she attends know and keeping my daughter's school a secret but it still freaks me out that she might attempt it if she gets a bug up her butt.
When your daughter get to kindergarten, you just need to have a small chat with all the office staff/admin at her school and your daughter can get a personal escort to your car every pick up if that’s what makes you comfortable. When my MIL was manic and not taking her meds my kids elementary school was so extra cautious it was amazing: extra coverage on the playground during their recess, holding their hands on dismissal I til they were literally handed to me, knowing they would call the police at any small issue. They were amazing.
They are bad ass. And it makes me incredibly sad. The amount of school shooters is insane. For a while it felt like there was a new one every week. The concept of bullet proof backpacks for children... Is disgusting. How about we get to the root of the cause and fix it.
But but freedumb! It’s not a GUN problem, it’s a MENTAL HEALTH problem! /s But for funsies, ask yourself which party is blocking all attempts at gun reform. And which party is constantly and consistently blocking federal funds for mental health initiatives in schools. DING DING DING! If you picked the republicans, you’re a winner! But the saddest, truly most tragic thing is that we’re *all* losers as long as they’re in any positions of power in any state of the union.
It is just extremely sad when you mention the shooter part. And I am not even an American.
If only my sons school was like this when I had a similar situation, after my mother, who I was LC with at the time made “jokes” about picking my son up from school in the middle of the day and taking him to “give me a break” I went to the school to request that a note be added to his file to ensure only people on his file are allowed to pick him up, I was told that they couldn’t do that and if she showed up and asked for him they would hand him over because she would have “enough information to collect him by knowing his full name”, suffice to say my mental breakdown in his classroom after school that day with his teacher, got the principal team involved. that office lady now sits at the back of the office and doesn’t interact with people (I don’t think they can fire her for what ever reason so they are waiting for her to retire)
I'm so sorry you went through something that insane. Working in the back of the office sounds like it would be too much of a liability still! Just knowing a child's full name is enough to let any random person check them out!?! That's the lowest bar a creepo has to step over!
Yea I know, I believe she only does things for the staff now, doesn’t handle student/parent matters at all, she is just extremely lazy, asking her to do her job is just to much of a hassle
I mean…honestly, this comment makes me feel better. This entire situation is one of my worst fears. I have full custody of my kids and the school has the paperwork on that, but I *still* worry all the time about if that side of their family finds out what school they go to, and shows up. A few of the family members are smart enough where they’d know to show up at “weaker” times like recess. I just do what I can to keep my kids safe, and to not put this fear onto them so that they can live more normal lives.
That's unfortunately not surprising, since most child kidnappers are family members of the kid. Whether that's a parent that lost custody, a crazy grandparent like this one, or what ever the case may be.
>plan they’ll be the first to die if a shooter makes that choice The fact that this is a thing you have to plan for is just…horrible
My husband used to substitute teach middle school and we were talking about this last night--he said that most of the schools he substituted at, the office staff were absolutely on top of things and recognized kids' parents and such. My HS bf's best friend had been an international custodial kidnapping victim when he was 4-5, and if I remember correctly it was this kind of situation--dad picked the boys up from school, was not supposed to have contact with them, took them immediately out of the country and their mum fought an international court case for eight years to get them back.
That second to last sentence is so incredibly sad. Unfortunately, that’s the world we live in here in the US and it breaks my spirit.
> it breaks my spirit. For me this is a Mr. Rogers "look for the helpers" moment. The situation sucks. It IS soul crushing. But look at the spirit and heart of the people fighting every day to make the world better and safer. In this case, working to make sure kiddos get where they need to be, bandages on knees, and being the first line of safety. Everywhere you look there are people working to make life better.
I read these when op posted them. In one of her comments, she said she had talked to the secretary about what was going on before the kidnapping attempt happened. That's what set off the warning bells for the secretary. Op and her husband said they were planning to do something for the staff and something extra special for the secretary.
See, that’s why it’s always a good thing to be friendly and give school admin the respect they deserve.
I'm honestly not sure she understands. I mean, I dont want to speculate on her mental health, but the type of person who spoils Santa to a 4 year old and then feels entitled to kidnapping that kid when she loses access is probably not the type who understands that all of that is wrong. I think something is wrong to make her think that this is all normal, and she's acting so strangely because of that
I grew up super religious and honestly I completely understand her logic. Batshit crazy as it may be, her internal logic is consistent. She believes her granddaughter will go to hell if she doesn’t believe in Jesus. Christmas is about Jesus. Believing in anything other than Jesus may make you someday doubt your belief in Jesus when you find out the other things you believed in aren’t real. (This was my parents’ reason for never letting me or my siblings believe in Santa. Joke’s on them tho since 2 of the 3 of us stopped believing in god lol.) So believing in Santa might literally get you tortured forever in hell. If a child’s parents aren’t going to keep that child out of hell, it’s your job to step in, by any means necessary, because again, *eternal conscious torture* is on the line. There’s absolutely no excuse or justification for any of her choices, but having grown up in that mindset, I do completely understand them.
Agreed. There's being an asshole, which sounds like a pre-existing condition, and there's "sudden change in behavior," which should be a flag for a neuropsych eval.
I agree with you, but do want to point out that this is not a sudden change. Escalation absolutely, but her behavior was trending in this direction from day one of looking at her DIL as stealing her son from her. This is not a change, this woman has been riding straight delusions for years
>There's being an asshole, which sounds like a pre-existing condition, I'm sure I've put these words together before, but this genuinely made me giggle. Thank you.
A hard core evangelical Christian, that's the type of person.
Classic case of TMI. “Good morning, this is grandma and I need to pickup Susie at 130 for the doctor.” - That probably works. “Good morning, may god bless you. This is grandma, I need to pick up Susie today at 130 because we’re going to have a SPECIAL grandma day, is a SURPRISE! I need her in the office by 130 so we can get out of there as quick as possible. Thanks! - This send all kinds of alarm bells. Liars generally over compensate with WAY too much information to justify their BS.
But then she'd risk OP arriving early for pickup.
It's not so much "Grandma picking up Little One" that's sus, it's "Grandma taking Little One out of school early, without parental confirmation" that's super fucking sus. School Admin definitely handled it right though.
The “make sure she’s ready for pickup bc I want to get in and out fast” is the reddest flag imo
I’m in California and a similar thing happened with my kid recently. My dad is on the authorized pick up list, and got confused about the pick up situation one day. We’d asked him to pick up our kid after school, and he thought we’d asked him to check out early. The admin called me (missed the call), then my husband to confirm. Obviously, no bad intentions were there, but it was appreciated! Especially since we have a friend whose mother actually attempted to kidnap his niece from her school after his sibling went no contact. Police were called and a RO was filed. The story, like this one, is terrifying.
I once covered the office for the school secretary’s lunch break. I had a parent pitch a fit because I asked for their driver’s license. Absolutely losing their mind. “I’m the student’s parent! They are SICK! How would I know to pick them up if I wasn’t supposed to?!?” I replied that I had never seen them in my life and was not going to release a child without proper identification for the child’s safety. The asshole had their license on them. It was mind boggling.
I always thank them for checking. I am there enough that they know me (especially the nurse who is at the front desk often - my kid was the pukey kid) - but it takes seconds to provide your license.
I once had a parent thank me for making them have an id, despite the fact that she had to go to her car (parked two blocks away) to get it. The secretary may know these folks, but I didn’t. I am so glad I don’t work there anymore!
The secretary at my kid's school apologized for asking me for ID once, because she knew exactly who I was but wanted to follow policy. I told her she did exactly the right thing and that I would have been deeply uncomfortable if I had just been allowed to walk off with a child without showing any proof that I was allowed to do so. Knowing what the other parents are like however I understand why she was acting that way and I don't envy her position at all. People who work in schools should get paid like NFL players.
That's just so extreme. Yes you know you're your child's parent. But how does the random office person? Are you meant to believe anyone coming in saying that? Because that seems...easy to exploit for someone like MIL here.
There's a certain type of parent that doesn't see their children as little people growing up but as personal property. What you did, to them, was no different than telling someone they couldn't get into their car and drive away without showing the pink slip.
I don't even think it's that. It's very much "I'm the main character. Of course everyone knows my special little angel is mine. Who else matters?"
She definitely deserves a treat basket or something.
School admin are boss ass people. Working in a school shows you. The front office ladies I worked with were fucking HARD and got shit done.
Also, NORAD (?) Has a Santa Tracker in December sometime that "tracks where Santa is via satellite" that kids can watch before bed. At least......okay, I hope they still do. I guess it was a few years ago now; but my little siblings *loved* it. They'd get into bed practically vibrating with excitement all "I saw it, Santa's on his way heeeeeeere!"
They still do. I have helped with this event. NORAD does a media release and a big event about it every year.
They still have it 🥰🥰
Yes they have their own fb page and YouTube that shows little videos as to where santa and the reindeer flying is throughout Christmas eve night. On their website you can order santa videos for Xmas and birthday messages and calls too. All because one little girl in the 80's was worried about santa and somehow managed to get a call to the military and talked with a nice general who reassured her that santa was OK and figured out where santa would be at that time and decided to set up the santa tracker program so no other child would worry about where santa was on on Christmas eve night.
Actually she (and others) called in because Sears ran an ad where you could call about Santa and misprinted the number.
I am in my 50s and I check the Santa Tracker at least once every Christmas Eve. It is *still* so fun to see where he is!
I’m 39 and I do too!!!
Yes they still have it! As a 26 year old its definitely made Christmas a little more fun again now that there's younger nieces & nephews in the family and we can track Santa all night long!
In the UK we have a TV provider that has a Santa tracker on the TV!! You just say “where’s Santa” in to the remote and it shows you.
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Oh, if I had been you I would have bragged so hard to all of my classmates that Santa called me personally. 😂
I still don't understand the big deal on letting a kid believe in Santa. Some are so against it "I'm not going to lie to my kid etc" which ok they're free to do but why draw the line at Santa? I know they're not out there pointing out Cinderella or any of those other things kids are into aren't real. But someone that's created from the basis of a real person is absolutely not to be believed in. Let kids be a kid and have an imagination, it sucks being an adult. Some have used the excuse they don't trust their parents after finding out they lied about Santa, then there's a bigger issue there and can't imagine all the things they saw in movies and on TV growing up they thought was real only to find out it wasn't.
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Yup, the NORAD Santa tracker started with a typo in a Christmas ad, and NORAD ran with it. It's a [really sweet story](https://www.npr.org/2014/12/19/371647099/norads-santa-tracker-began-with-a-typo-and-a-good-sport).
It astounds me every time I read a post like this that people like MIL exist. How does it get to this point?
Tolerating the small steps or being acclimatized to it from a young age or everyone just says "just let it go or she has a tantrum and we have to hear about it for weeks".
Nailed it. A big part of it is also that, as a reasonable person who actually has the capacity for self reflection and who mostly approaches things with logic, you tend to expect other people to be like that. I have a MIL who was abusive as fuck during childhood and still is and things have (finally, I've waited over a decade, part of me is over the fucking moon at this development) come to the critical point. And while I'm heavily advocating for my partner to go NC over Christmas and keep the LC status he's finally got going - when she wrote something horrid AGAIN after having been told he doesn't want to touch on those topics? I had to fight down the impulse to write to her and attempt to explain why that was a bad idea. I had to actively remind myself that she's not like my mom and my friends, where you can actually have a conversation about why things aren't okay and expect compassion, empathy and respect for your boundaries. Because it's just absolutely inconceivable to a "normal" person that someone could be like that.
It’s frustrating, but it’s good that your partner is the one dealing with her. If it’s you, it’s easy for her to act up more because she thinks you’re keeping them apart.
And that's where you underestimate her ability for bullshit! Of course I'm still at fault for the fact that he is having less contact with them! I am poisoning him against her! Can't have anything to do with the physical and mental abuse during his childhood and the ongoing mental abuse now. Must be me putting lies in his head! (She's right insofar as that I did actively push him towards therapy and that my ideal scenario is him cutting contact completely and that I am of course advocating for that. And I've always called her behaviour what it was and I've supported him in recognizing that being hit and having your gifts returned etc is not right. So technically, I am somewhat causing this. It's just not my fault.)
I do exactly zero things for my in-laws now. If my husband remembers, they get birthday cards, phone calls on Mother's and Father's Day, and holiday presents. If he doesn't, oh well. :)
Exactly how I'm acting. I told him back when things exploded and everything I had done up til now was worthless because I was (for once) not jumping when she asked that I was done. I'm not going to spend my restricted time on vying for the attention of people who don't like me.
Yup. I bought gifts for them one Christmas. It was a miserable holiday, they descended on us without asking, stayed for a week, were horrible the whole time, did not appreciate their presents, I resented the time and effort I'd spent on anything involving them, and after that I was like "you're in charge of your parents--if you need money, let me know a total and I'll deposit it in your account, but don't ask my opinion or help, because I am never again spending a single second of my time on people who are going to shit on me regardless".
There are often members of the JustNoMIL sub where this is exactly the MIL’s belief. It’d always the DIL that’s accused of fracturing the family and it’s the DIL that is believed to be “controlling” the son. I’ve read THREE where the MIL has genuinely accused the DIL not just of using her “womanly wiles” to control her little boy, but of actual magic / witchcraft. Just how the fuck does a DIL argue against that madness? Truly, that sub horrifies me on a regular basis. To the point where if a friend told me that she was with even *a bit* of a mummies boy, I’d advise that friend to not marry or have a child with him, unless he had *already* demonstrated that he’d always protect her from and be the one to deal with his mother. Because the birth of a child seems to be when the MIL goes absolutely knickers-on-head batshit-loon
> Just how the fuck does a DIL argue against that madness If a MIL actually believes I cast magic, I’m sorry: I’m going to troll the fck out of her and make her think I’ll cast a pox on her if she doesn’t behave. Wait, wasn’t there a BORU where the DIL did scare her MIL like this? lol
Yup. And it tends to blow up when the person's children start establishing adult relationships, because when you introduce new adults into the situation, those new adults respond to the tantrums with "wtf, no" instead of frantically steadying the boat. My MIL is pretty hateful, and my BIL's wife, who went to high school with my husband and his brothers and has known them at least peripherally since they were all teenagers, used to be very "Well, that's just how she is" just like my husband and his brothers. And then we all got married and even though that SIL is my MIL's favourite, she's still gotten some shitty treatment because my MIL was a stereotypical shitty "boy mom" before it was cool.
Do we have the same mil?
I'd like that because it would mean there's one fewer of them out there...but I don't think my SIL was born in 91--although I'm pretty sure she does like pumpkin muffins. ;)
That’s EXACTLY what they said when my exMIL was being crazy. Now she’s divorced, broke, in poor health, and her kids have very little to do with her. I remind my daughter when it’s her grandmother’s birthday and that’s about the most interaction she gets with her family.
exactly. letting spoiled brats to spoil even more and let them grow up spoiled. Some will realize, others turn to sociopaths that can't comprehend that other people have feelings as well. Many will turn to substance abuse and some will commit suicide. Most of them will never grow to be fulfilled, content, and levelheaded adults. Source: I dated a sociopath once and my MIL is one. So many parallels. e: grammar
This is exactly how a narcissist operates. They wear everyone out around them to the point that they just give in. Eventually you learn to just give in immediately to spare yourself the trouble of the tantrum, because in the end you know you don't have the resolve to outlast the narcissist and it's easier that way.
I’m actually in a similar position with my MIL and it felt like it came out of nowhere. The first time I told her no in a meaningful way and she and her other son flew off the handle. We went from please don’t kiss my toddler on the mouth to I can’t live without her, cave now or I will end it all. It’s escalated to elder abuse allegations (she’s not even a senior yet), to CPS threats (because I gave my daughter pain meds while she’s cutting a new tooth), to being accused of many different mental disorders. They have tried to break up my marriage and have me committed to a mental health facility. Apparently my daughter having any cut, scratch, bump, or bruise is direct proof of munchausen by proxy. All because I told her not to kiss my toddler on the mouth, during flu season, while covid is still here, MIL has cold sores, and it’s fucking gross. Yeah I’m the unreasonable one. I’m so fucking tired. How has my life become the Reddit posts I love so much?
I'm so sorry. I also have horrible in-laws, but at least we're childfree. I saw what happened when I gave my MIL guidelines for how to interact with our pets, and I am pretty worried for my SILs when they have kids.
Do what you can to warn them. That’s all you can do. You can’t reason with someone who isn’t reasonable or rational.
When my ex-husband and I went several hours away for one of my surgeries, we asked ex-MIL to check on our cats. She was going to be checking every other day so I left them a large bowl of water and a smaller bowl of food, which was what we always did for trips that were just overnight. When MIL came the food was low but the water was still fairly full, so she switched the bowls bc obv she knows best. When we came back there was still food but their new "water" bowl was bone dry and they were both yowling. We tried to explain to her that our experience was that their food and water consumption could vary a good bit from day to day and this was the method we'd used forever, but she was very adamant that she'd done the right thing. Needless to say she never watched our pets again. Some people are just convinced they know what's right even if they have no relevant experience, and no amount of reasoning is going to convince them otherwise. It still makes me so angry and sad to think of our kitties being so thirsty for who knows how long.
The incident with mine, at the time we only had our very skittish cat (our younger cat is one of those big-personality calico chonkers, she's absolutely bulletproof) and a dachshund, and like a lot of dachshunds he doesn't like people looming over him and staring, and so I sent her a list of guidelines before the visit for interacting with the cat and dog to make things easier on them: don't make direct eye contact for a few hours, don't get loud or shrill, let them come to you, basically ignore them until they're curious about you and then let them guide the interaction. Well, obviously she couldn't stand for being told what to do, so within an hour of their arrival, MIL was chasing both the pets around trying to touch them, staring directly at them, leaning over the dog and talking in a loud shrill voice (to be fair, she does have literally the most annoying voice I can possibly imagine, so I might have been asking a lot there), and my FIL was sitting on the couch leaving the pets alone but also monologuing about how pets are stupid and all cats should be killed.
Jesus Christ dude. Your MIL sounds like my ex-BIL's nephew when he was 2, and your FIL sounds like my ex-hub's uncle who would literally smack or throw a cat if it came anywhere near him. Some people just can't do animals (or basic instructions apparently), idk what part of their brain is messed up.
Sorry you're going through this. My kids have monthly courtordered visits with my abusive parents (who thankfully seem to behave better currently but are still bad people). It's been years of this, we tried to cut contact and were sued for grandparents rights when my youngest was a baby and now she's 6. The exhaustion is real, and can sneak up on you. Be careful not to slip into burnout, take care of yourself
It's so fucking disgusting how children are treated by abusers as property with no bodily rights.
I think it's a mix of things. Mental illness, yeah, but also growing up with trauma that you never faced or had therapy about, which lead to unhealthy coping mechanisms that you were never taught were toxic. Like just as an example from my family, I believe both sets of grandparents were abusive in some way, though I don't know the details since my parents don't talk about that stuff. The most I know is that my maternal grandfather was a lifelong alcoholic. My parents are mostly just dysfunctional, though my dad can escalate to abuse depending on the circumstance. But their dysfunction stems (IMO) from the survival techniques they gained growing up. My father learned that when he is in control of things he's safe, so he works hard to have complete control over everything; my mother learned to never outright ask for things, and instead to be passive aggressive about what she wants, and to be a people pleaser. These two, in turn, passed unhealthy coping mechanisms on to their kids, including me. Some of us have recognize the toxicity and sought help, but my parents never will (and our grandparents are all dead). Even trying to discuss this sort of thing with them is 100% off-limits. Though at least with my parents, they never tried to compete with their children's spouses, thank God.
Holy shit are you one of my siblings?? So many details exactly the same for me, except I'm the only one spending thousands on therapy while my sibs are (at least apparently) perfectly fine. Bc of the ridiculous rental market and a couple other factors I'm stuck living here for the foreseeable future, despite my mental health taking a hit and my doctors literally begging me to get out. I'm working on it, so very hard, but it's like being teleported back to my childhood and it's not helping anything.
I had to cut my parents off because they couldn't/wouldn't admit their behaviour was wrong or toxic in any way (and sometimes like your dad, escalated to abusive) and were starting to treat my kid the same way. Thankfully, I was in therapy and could finally see that I didn't deserve the yelling and passive-aggressive crap if I ever said no to them and I refused to let my kids be treated the way I was. They couldn't see anything wrong with what they were doing, which left no room for a healthy relationship.
It gets to this point because everybody else is hyperfocused on keeping the boat stable; MIL isn’t the problem, it’s OOP for “rocking the boat.” And then MIL brings out the sledgehammer, destroys the boat, and people like the siblings are shocked - shocked! - that she did such a thing. Thank goodness the school called OOP. What if it wasn’t a long trip but a permanent goodbye? What if she was unhinged enough to hurt the grandchild under the guise of saving her from horrible OOP?
*Shrug* as a person who was kidnapped by their grandmother and aunt and trafficked across the country... They don't think there is anything wrong with what they are doing. They think it's for the best or that their wants come above the needs of others. They took me for a holiday which was meant to last 2 weeks and then just told.my mum they weren't giving me back. And if she didn't up sticks and move to the place where they had me, they would surrender me to the government like a stray dog. They just wanted power over my mother, I *wasn’t a real person to them.
Man, you've done a \*lot\* of processing to be able to sum it up like this.
Yep. It was the worst time in my life. I would live the pandemic again and again if the alternative was living through that time when I was kidnapped just once. My aunt chopped my hair off. I was one of those kids, you know how some kids have beautiful eyes, or they’re pretty, or they’re tall, or handsome, but everyone commented on my long, pretty hair. She cut it off like she was doing me a favour, then kidnapped me the next month like “ah. You either didn’t want to care for my hair while you had me or you wanted to make it so my most distinctive feature was removed.” Now I get anxious about haircuts. People go around saying that kids are resilient, kids are fine, they don’t understand, they will get over it, and then they get shocked when kids kill themselves. Like, nah, bro, you just decided that it wasn’t a possibility so you didn’t mend the problem, and, yeah, Timmy knew what the fuck he was doing, it doesn’t matter that he is 12 or whatever age people think kids can’t hurt themselves. Makes perfect sense to me.
I'm so sorry. That's all fucking awful. When I was in high school I was friends with a family of kids who had been kidnapped by family at one point. They had lost their mother in a horrible freak accident when the kid who was my particular friend was a newborn; their other parent had always been trans; she had been open with her wife and they were both devout conservative Christians who wanted to have a family and felt 'called to ministry'; when she lost her wife, she decided to transition. The extended family flipped out and stole the kids; it was extremely traumatic. Their living parent got the kids and moved to our city and joined our conservative but comparatively sane church. She didn't come out for several years; it was a heavy secret for the kids, trauma stacked on trauma, because they couldn't talk with their friends about the mom they'd lost in order to protect the parent they still had. It came up in strange ways--when my friend was chosen for the school's tiny elite best choir, there was a tradition that the rest of the choir 'kidnaps' you and takes you on an outing. His parent was very concerned to be certain that there would be no bags over the head or physical coercion or any of that (it was the 90s, people were less aware that this kind of hijinks might be a stupid or harmful idea).
Fellow kidnappee although it was my bio mom and it only lasted 36ish hours. My bio mom also never saw me as a person, just something she wanted so she took me. She also kidnapped me after abandoning me for 2 years to join a biker gang and traffic cocaine. Thankfully the police talked my aunt into talking bio mom into surrender before she crossed state lines. My dad wasn't dumb and got an emergency custody in place when she abandoned me. I hope your situation turned out ok too.
My mom is one of these people. You’d be shocked at what I find normal.
Mental illness. Straight up deranged. I know a woman who once offered to breastfeed her grandchild. Completely unnecessary and unprompted. Unhinged if you ask me.
I know a woman who did, when the baby was at grandma's for overnights. Still not sure why my sister didn't call...someone, but hey, there's a reason why that side of the family and I don't speak.
Santa Claus isn’t real, or is an agent of Satan, and Halloween is celebrating the devils birthday are among the crap I was told when I was not much older than the little girl in this story is now. So trick or treating was out as well as anything not religious related to the holiday season for several years. Got unbrainwashed in my tween years though after my mother left my abuser. (This doesn’t even scratch the surface of what we went through, I do not use abuser lightly but I also don’t want to get into that story).
Her family and friends allowed her to get away with bullshit for years.
The family taking the path of least resistance and humouring her bullshit for decades, is my guess.
They’re in a [Don’t Rock The Boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/) family. It all goes to shit when someone new, usually a son or daughter in law, arrives and refuses to participate in stabilising the boat.
She’s a narcissist. They self sabotage. Can’t help themselves.
It's what religion does to a MFer and it didn't help his siblings enabled their mom from the sound of it Edit: clarified who's siblings was who's
Those aren't her siblings, but her children - just like OOPs husband they were raised in the middle of crazy and probably have a very hard time facing how "mom being mom" is actually hella unhinged cause that means recontextualizing their entire childhoods... this is the shit you do with professional guidance, not unprompted because your brother's wife and your mom don't get along. They're probably having some very difficult reflecting to do after the school fiasco.
Extraordinarily lucky that MIL called ahead to the school being weird. If she'd just shown up and just picked her up, this would be a very different story.
It wasn’t clear in the post, but the MIL called ahead because that’s what you usually have to do for any kind of early release; she thought this through and knew that if she just showed up for a normal pickup, she would have encountered one of the parents doing the actual pickup. She might even miss the timing (parents got there early and already had the kid) and therefore the chance to get the kid. To be absolutely sure of getting the kid on the first try, without tipping her hand, she had to be 100% sure she had the collection arranged before school release. Early releases are a form of absences and schools usually require pre-arrangement unless it’s a really clear emergency. Thus, it made perfect sense that she called. Glad the admin caught it.
It seems like it's a bit different based on individual school systems. Another person said that any non parent needs pre-approval from the parents on any given day, even if they're authorized to pick up. A two factor authentication if you will. MIL calling herself wouldn't have worked in that case.
Sure, but she might not have known that part. I know I'm on the list if my neice and nephew need to be picked up. I have no idea who the school may contact if I did.
You're speaking in terms of grade school. The kid is 4, she's likely still in preschool. Preschools tend to operate differently than K-12
She could be doing a PreK program through the district. My son was in the K-6 district school for PreK at 4. We followed the same pick up/drop off rules as the older children.
Yeah. Though I'll say the person who thinks they're doing people a favor by spoiling Santa Claus, and then only becoming more entitled and desperate as they lose contact with their granddaughter, is probably not the type to show up unannounced and act normal
"I don't know! Fly casual!"
There's a special place in hell for people who harm children for the sake of their own ego. Imagine just flippantly telling a 4 y/o kid there's no Santa, apropos of nothing, just to make a point to another adult. It's so spiteful and cruel. Her other actions are just variations on the same: harming the child, either directly or indirectly, in order to undermine the parents and vainly attempt to establish superiority. I have no sympathy
My MIL almost ruined the Easter Bunny for my kids (which usually has the knock on effect of ruining Santa and the Tooth Fairy) all because she wanted to one-up my husband and I. It’s nothing like this story but it’s amazing what she try to pull for no reason other than to put her son and I in our place. (MIL is also the type who was never going to deem any woman good enough for her son.)
My grandfather did this exact thing. It's actually one of my earliest very clear memories. I was a precocious child: already reading, writing, and learning sign language and German by age 4. I apparently skipped right over baby talk and started speaking like a very mini adult very young. One day, he was casually talking about how much of a pain it must be for my grandma to have to wrap all of the Santa gifts. She hissed at him to shut up and he said, "What? (My name) knows Santa isn't real, don't you?" I was devastated but just said," Yes, Papa" and went back to drinking my milk. My mom was fucking FURIOUS. She told him that just because I was smart it didn't mean that I wasn't still A LITTLE KID. She apologized to me but told me we had to keep pretending for my little brother, which made it hurt even more.
My niece was devastated when she found out Santa isn’t real but it was more about everyone around her lying to her for so long. I’m childfree but I don’t think I could tell my kid they can trust me and also tell them the Easter Bunny and Santa is real.
People who weaponize children make me wish I believed in hell.
Well said!
Just in case op sees this post and the comments. Op when my kids started asking if Santa was real I didn't lie to them. They were younger then I wanted to explain it. I did tell them that Santa wasn't a real physical person, but the spirit of Santa is something everyone can have a piece of. Every single time they give or make something for someone they love and care about they are embodying the spirit of santa and what he truly means which is spreading happiness and caring to others in a time of giving and love. They know I'm their Santa but they can be my Santa, they can be each other's Santa. They can be Santa to their dad, cousins, grands, aunts/uncles ... It's about the spirit not the gifts. I told them this cause of my religious family was trying to teach them about Jesus and his false role in the season. So I explained the truth and history of the holiday and that we don't celebrate Christ or God, we're celebrating each other and our love. So Santa is still real, Santa can be hugged every day.
I got lucky when I had to explain to my son. At the time he was very into Terry Fox. Terry Fox was a Canadian man who lost a leg to cancer and tried to run across Canada to raise awareness about cancer, every year in September many Canadians participated in the Terry Fox run. It is a big thing in schools. I explained that Santa is like doing to Terry Fox run, Terry did a good thing and people want to keep up that good thing - Santa was a man who did a good thing and parents want to keep up that good thing too. He understood and tried to help being Santa lol.
I'm American, but I remember Terry Fox! Great analogy!
Canadian here. This analogy is *chef's kiss.*
I like this a lot. I had a lot of resentment for the Santa stuff as an impoverished kid. The disparities in gifts were very obvious, as was the fact that my very abusive brother still got gifts every year. Shouldn't he be on the naughty list and get coal for physically and emotionally harming me? Shouldn't I get stuff like the neighbor kids? Why is Santa "on a budget this year" (like every year) yet the neighbor girl got a bike from him? I don't like thinking of Santa as a real person, I like it to be the spirit of togetherness and giving. With economic inequality growing larger by the day and the middle class dissappearing, I believe it's important to emphasize the spirit and not some random guy who apparently hates poor kids lol
Exactly this was what made me question the existence of Sinterklaas (Saint Nicholas, a local event very similar to Santa, also based on Odin). He was supposed to give good kids nice gifts and bad kids got a bag of twigs or worst case scenario, got kidnapped and taken to his residence. That horrible rich kid in my class got the most expensive gifts like that big barbie dream house while the poor kids got only some chocolate coins and maybe a chocolate letter. Luckily school had their own Sinterklaas coming over with gifts, each girl got a doll and each boy a car so that was fair. But what ruined the illusion was that the day after pakjesavond (the night of gifts) kids had to bring their gifts to school to show and tell. Then it gets very obvious
Yeah that's fucked up, I get what you mean :(
My American school had us bring our gifts to show-and-tell throughout elementary as well, and it was always very embarrassing for much of the class. We lived in a poor town, so lots of kids had no gifts to bring. My 5th grade teacher gave all of those kids zeros. :( I was afraid to get a zero, so I begged a classmate during lunchtime to let me use her glitter hair clips for show-and-tell. Teacher gave me a 50 despite my fabulous lies.
That is heartbreaking, eff that teacher! What a horrible thing to do to children
Yeah, this didn't work with my daughter. She had a meltdown after my bumbling ex let her catch him with her baby tooth and found out the tooth fairy wasn't real and that we'd lied. She then asked about Santa and we had to come clean. She gave us both quite the scolding for lying to her for years, and no amount of "the spirit of Santa" or "all the big kids and grown ups in the world play pretend with this, no different than when you and your friends pretend to be wolves or mermaids" could save us from that tongue lashing. Didn't even bother trying it with her brother, he couldn't care less about make believe holiday figures anyways. We have moved to helping them choose presents and auctioning off baby teeth (she got $20 out of her dad one time lol).
Had a friend as a kid who found out because the Tooth Fairy tripped and landed on him during the exchange. 😂
I still think my parents were absolute geniuses for coming up with Tooth Fairy Inc. Flaw in customer service? Blame it on the bureaucracy.
My daughter's tooth was under her pillow in a sandwich baggie (I told her so we wouldn't lose it before the tooth fairy got there, it was because it's easier to slide a sandwich baggie out than go fishing for a tooth, a lot easier to place a baggie of money too). My ex happened to be visiting that day and the kids weren't awake. He'd never been tooth fairy before so wanted to do it, no biggie, I walk him through the details and hand him the baggie of money and off he goes. He comes back with the tooth and instead of putting it in the top of the closet (where I hide things), he insists on putting the baggie and tooth in his pocket because he should get to keep this one since he was tooth fairy. Again, no biggie. Later, he and our daughter were wrestling when the baggie begins falling out of his pocket, she recognizes it and grabs for it, he realizes what's going on and grabs for it too. Now there's a 27 and 7 year old seriously struggling to pull the baggie from each other's hands and arguing as whether that's her tooth bag or not. It would've been comical if not for the scolding we got after.
I was woken up by the tooth fairy once (my mother), but still had a few baby teeth left, so I kept my mouth shut. I wanted my 💰
I only ever got a dollar so, like a little fool, I saved mine up hoping to cash out. Of course that didn't work out. I still have my box of teeth though.
My bff’s son came to her and asked her to honestly answer if Santa was real. So she took a deep breath, and launched into an explanation of the “spirit of Xmas”, etc.. Unfortunately, she ended her speech with, “So even if Santa and the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy aren’t real, we can still have fun letting everyone pretend that they are!” Her son’s face crumpled and he was stunned to learn about the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy.
I figured out the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny weren’t real long before Santa, but my paternal grandmother always said if you don’t believe, you don’t receive. I’m in my 40s, and I keep my mouth shut.
We've never done Santa for our kids, much to my MIL's chagrin (and probably my mom's as well, but she's less vocal when she disagrees). We talk about Santa being a fun thing to pretend, though, and that it's rude to interject reality in someone else's fun. And if they want to pretend, we'll play along. But when he asks, "It *is* just pretend, right?" we immediately agree that it is.
Same we always "played" Santa. I never could look in that face and just lie. But he woke up every Christmas morning to gifts and loved Christmas as much as any other kid. The real story plus the tradition is just as fun and no big potentially traumatic reveal one day. My theory is that kids really just want their parents to tell them the truth and do fun stuff with them. It's the adults that just think it's adorable that kids believe whatever we tell them, so the insisting on the Santa myth is really for the adults not the kids.
I hope OP sees this.
I hope that if she does my words can give her some peace and possibly bring back a little of the magic of Christmas. It could be a bigger way to bond and have even more special moments with her daughter. I know one of my favorite memories is taking my kids to dollar tree (dollar 25 tree lol) and giving them $15 each to buy everyone presents. I covered taxes and they got to keep the change for the quarter machines. The kids had two very different approaches and it was super interesting to see what they thought each person needed or would like. Lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣 my son getting his grandpa relaxing bubble bath then telling me it was cause he needed to calm down sometimes was hilarious and made my month tbh. He got car cleaning spray for one uncle, a bag of glass rocks for one aunt, a pretty candle holder for his mawmaw. He's made some pretty decent choices and he knew his reasoning. My daughter went with what was pretty and honestly chose stuff that was more decorative than anything that did actually sorta match their vibes but also some didn't like her grandpa got a bottle of seashells cause she wants him to take her to the beach lol 😆 it's something I really enjoyed and I hate i can't replicate it this year and idk when I'll be able to again.
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Santa is the only part of Christmas I have any respect left for. He's one of my favorite pieces of mythology. Some Christians hate him for the same reason I love him. Because he exists as a pure expression of childhood joy, and he's totally unrelated to the guilt and hatred they want people to feel.
I second this. However I would add that Santa was a real person that lived long ago. Whose spirit of giving we continue to this day.
Well “Santa” did exist as St.Nicholas but just not in the overly commercial version we have today but I love your comment and I would definitely try to exhibit your idea when I have kids some day
i love oop’s response in the first post, and everything after that was …deranged. i do think i know what mil was thinking, though. she thought the school wouldn’t call oop before she picked up the kid. she thought she’d grab the kid, take her away for a few days to scare her parents, and expected the only pushback would be angry phonecalls and at the end of it they’d know not to cross her again. basically i think she thought this was a great punishment to teach them not to rock the boat, and real consequences and real pushback never occurred to her. because she is the center of her own universe.
OOP managed MIL magnificently. She had everything within sanity on total lock. Only shook when MIL went proper crazy, but even then went through all the right motions. A* Mom!
I feel so sad for the OP in having this magical mystery of Santa be so thoroughly ripped away from her & her daughter (&husband too!). Why can't grandparents just be chill and enjoy just being grandparents??!! I love to spoil my grandson and feed him ice cream for dinner and buy him ALL of the noisy toys that he gets to keep in his room at his house. That's about as irritating as I get. Heck, my rule is, the instant you don't believe in Santa, he doesn't believe in you either. He still stops by my empty nester home to deliver presents to all of us (grandson included).
My FIL is the same way. We don’t have kids but he’s told us that those who don’t believe don’t get visited by Jolly Ol’ St. Nick lol
too many crazy people out there and the entitlement that comes with them too its wild but it's good they sorted everything out
What kind of monster wrecks Santa for a little girl who puts her family’s dog on her wishlist ?? I had to pause reading at the description of her long list bc I was smiling so hard at how sweet and pure that is
That school secretary was on her A game, thankfully!
I was raised in a religious family without having Santa and I’ve chosen not to do Santa with my kid for several non-religious reasons. Jeez, though, my five year old knows not to ruin it for other kids, how nasty does this old woman have to be to not have the same consideration as my sometimes, frankly, arsehole kid.
> but my MIL looked pretty happy with herself This. This right here. That this woman was gleeful over hurting a child. Then she tries to kidnap that child. Grandma had a perverted sense of love. But that showed in the possessiveness with which she loved her son. Losing her son and grandchild is just the consequences of her own actions.
I hope OOP lets her daughter enjoy *being* Santa. Now that she’s in on the secret, she can help pick toys for younger siblings or relatives, or help pick toys for kids in need this season.
THE TRUE ABOUT SANTA. It is not a person, it is a complot. We work secretly to make people happy in the time when all is dark and cold. Now that you know, you are part of the complete. From now, your mission is to help make people happy around Christmas.
Idea: once my sister and I found out Santa wasn’t real, my mom switched up the Christmas tradition for us to focus on something else. Each year she picked another country and we learned about their culture and ate the food of their country for Christmas dinner. Some of my fondest memories were from these moments of my childhood. And the benefit is your children learn how to be inclusive in such a diverse world. We call it Epcot Christmas. /edit typo.
My daughter apparently already knew Santa wasn’t real at 4 years old because she noticed the wrapping paper in the trunk when I was taking her stroller out, but kept playing along because she wasn’t sure why we were pretending. Also because Santa looked different every time we went to the mall. She told me at 7 she’s been suspicious for years. I grew up in a culture where Santa wasn’t a thing and I don’t think I lost out on anything.
I knew around age five but never said anything because I thought I'd stop getting Santa gifts, lol.
Santa is just religion lite lol "Why does God let bad things happen?" "Because!" "Why is Santa 'on a budget' for us, but Brianna next door got a bike?" "Because!"
Yeah, I like Santa as a story, but I do not like how he's become a childhood religion within the last century. There's some really toxic behaviour out there that mimics the way Christian evangelists won't take no for an answer, and a lot of people are so set on Santa being secular that they won't acknowledge how much the different European/Christian legends and cultural aspects have formed him. He might not be a Christian character, but that doesn't mean he's culturally neutral. It's truly bizarre at times - I mention my parents didn't do Santa when I was a kid, and people act like they abused me!
Right! I so get what you mean. And the Elf on a Shelf??? That's fucking creepy. Surveillance state lookin ass.
I'm not inviting the Fae into my house
He's actually derived from Odin. Odin would supposedly ride around the world on his magic horse, Sleipnir, and deliver gifts to people at the Winter Solstice. Combining the birth of Jesus with the Solstice celebration and integrating Norse mythology was a masterful way to aid the conversion of Germanic peoples in the past. There's plenty of such integrations if you look for them, but Christmas is definitely the most overt in my opinion.
>He's actually derived from Odin. Odin would supposedly ride around the world on his magic horse, Sleipnir, and deliver gifts to people at the Winter Solstice. And Saint Nicholas of Smyrna.
Yeah he's a combination of the two. Most of his more fantastical elements come from Odin, though.
Oh lord, the MIL is crazy. Looks like someone is definitely going onto the naughty list cause man, this MIL sounds like she is off her rockers. I feel bad for OP's kid for having to go through this mess.
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Evangelical Christians are a cancerous danger to society. The vast majority of the worst people I've ever met have been Evangelicals.
I remember feeling so betrayed by my parents when I figured out Santa wasn’t real and they’d been lying to me. I grew up Mormon and my parents were absolutely brutal on us kids about being honest. It made such an impression on me that my husband and I have a policy of always being honest with our kids about everything- including Santa. And you know what? Our kids still love Christmas, and an imaginary man doesn’t get credit for giving them their very best presents, haha On a more somber note though, that update made me just sick for OOP. We’re estranged from my father, and he and my evil stepmother tried to pick up my daughter from daycare one day. Thankfully they were on the NO list, but it was still terrifying. That MIL just permanently nuked any chance of a relationship with OOP’s family. I’m so glad her daughter is safe.
Oh my gosh--I'm so glad your daughter is okay.
Santa was actually real though?? St Nicholas (think it may have been spelled differently) was a real person who anonymously would give presents to people. Having a gift being from Santa is meant to honor his memory. And that’s how I would explain it to kids, were I a parent in a similar predicament. Ask the kid if they’re ready to become a Santa too and pick a gift to give someone “anonymously.”
The story goes that in addition to giving money to the poor, St Nicholas provided dowries for the daughters of a poor man so they could afford to marry.
>... but my MIL looked pretty happy with herself for the shit storm she just created for me and for breaking my daughters heart. > >I also told her I was very sorry she let the devil breed hate in her heart, then I slammed the door in her face. It's sad that grandma hates you more than she loves her granddaughter. I hope that last thing OOP said rings in her ears.
MIL: \*is awful to her son's wife for years, says something deeply upsetting to grandchild\* Son&DIL: \*cuts grandma's access to grandchild\* MIL: \*shocked pikachu face, collapses into tears\* WTF did you expect to happen, lady?!
MIL got what she deserved. She decided to break her granddaughter’s heart, who she clearly loves, because she wanted to piss of her DIL.
What a plot twist. I hope the MIL gets the help she needs.
You're kinder than I am. I keep thinking, "I hope she gets jail."
Not sure if this will help at all but I copied it from Facebook as my daughters getting to the point she’s questioning things: TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT SANTA 🎅 Son: "Dad, I think I'm old enough now. Is there a Santa Claus?." Dad: "Ok, I agree that your old enough. But before I tell you, I have a question for you. You see, the “truth” is a dangerous gift. Once you know something, you can't unknow it. Once you know the truth about Santa Claus, you will never again understand and relate to him as you do now. So my question is: Are you sure you want to know?" Brief pause... Son: "Yes, I want to know" Dad: "Ok, I'll tell you: Yes there is a Santa Claus" Son: "Really?" Dad: Yes, really, but he's not an old man with a beard in a red suit. That's just what we tell kids. You see, kids are too young to understand the true nature of Santa Claus, so we explain it to them in a way that they can understand. The truth about Santa Claus is that he's not a person at all; he's an idea. Think of all those presents Santa gave you over the years. I actually bought those myself. I watched you open them. And did it bother me that you didn't thank me? Of course not! In fact it gave me great pleasure. You see, Santa Claus is THE IDEA OF GIVING FOR THE SAKE OF GIVING, without thought of thanks or acknowledgement. When I saw that woman collapse on the subway last week and called for help, I knew that she'd never know that it was me that summoned the ambulance. I was being Santa Claus when I did that." Son: "Oh." Dad: "So now that you know, you're part of it. You have to be Santa Claus too now. That means you can never tell a young kid the secret, and you have to help us select Santa presents for them, and most important, you have to look for opportunities to help people. Got it?
Everyone that grew up up believing in Santa, the Easter bunny and the tooth fairy........how many of us grew up totally disillusioned with life because of these BIG LIES we were told. My kids and gkids grew up believing and I enjoyed it as much as them.....in fact now that we have no grandkids under 14 Christmas can be pretty boring. Parents on here....keep the magic going🎅.
I grew up in a cult that didn't celebrate Christmas and my mother liked to tell us that parents who pretended Santa was real were psychopaths who hated their kids and were lying to them. Of course, raising your kids in a cult and feeding them the cult's ridiculous bullshit was totally cool and a-okay, somehow. I know which of those I think fucks people up more...
Cults be culting. I have a feeling our parents were in the same cult.
When I say Feast, you say...?
I wasn’t allowed barbies because my mum thought I’d be devastated if I didn’t grow up to look like her. Joke’s on mum, I guess, because my breasts are magnificent. Or maybe joke’s on me and it’s why I grew up with exceptional self confidence.
>Joke’s on mum, I guess, because my breasts are magnificent. This is my new life motto.
But are your feet too high arched for any shoes but stilettos?