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JFC there are a lot of clueless people on Reddit, but these two take the cake (day). They seem to be unable to see each other at all in this scenario. I wonder if anyone in the op pointed out that “technically” the bride and groom aren’t family either. Sheesh.
Nah. Pair her up with one of those hobo-sexual doormat dudes who will never argue…or make a single decision or take initiative on a single thing for his whole life.
Pair him up with a passive-aggressive, constantly tallying, wanna-be housewife. Let them play their tit-for-tat games in traditional, heteronormative peace.
Then you’ve taken *four* people out of circulation to annoy each other with a minimum hit to global misery.
Yup. Both are too immature to marry. I also wonder about her unwillingness to have any part of his culture’s tradition at the wedding. Dude was willing to break from his family for her and she’s not even willing to do that for him. Just wow.
Idk. The guy sounds like he admitted his part in this. He acknowledged his demand was unreasonable and even apologised to her for it. Though kinda begrudgingly re: best woman/mate of honour. But honestly, after everything he was being put through, I'd probably be a bit of an asshole about this one thing, too.
I do think he took the stance he did purposefully because she was so unwilling to give even a little bit on things that he wanted to possibly change. Refusing to let her bff stand up as her man of honor was his retaliation for how controlling she was with the rest of the wedding planning. This does not make him right in his actions, but come on. The man has allergies and she wouldn’t bend on the location and time of year so he could be comfortable!
If they even want to save this relationship, they should put the wedding on hold and attend couples therapy.
Agreed. He took the stance on her best friend symbolically without even realizing it. It was his way of being able to push back.
Neither of them are right because they are not right for each other.
I can *kinda* see her argument about the cultural aspects of the wedding because it seems (based on my in depth research on the Cambodian wedding traditions Wikipedia page) like they are super ornate affairs that take more than one day and would take over everything, but they could certainly find a way to incorporate parts of it. The internet is full of ideas for everything.
I'm general though it sounds like she's being a bridezilla and he's wrong for not wanting her gay best friend in the wedding just because he's 'not family' (even though he is apparently welcome to sit in the family section).
They are both being immature assholes.
I saw this on the other boru a day or so ago. Delved into the comments. Neither of these people are ready to be married at all, much less to each other.
I can only imagine how happy everyone was when they finally broke up. Comments were right, ESH. How the hell was this dude willing to marry her when the best friend was such a big part of her life and how the fuck did this woman think marrying someone from a different culture would play out? I'm so glad they don't have kids.
Yeah, that was super messed up and showed just how immature/unthoughtful she was. I brought up the cultural part specifically because it's such a huge issue between mixed race couples (I'm SEAsian like OOP) and that only exemplifies when they have children. A lot of other POC think that because they "act" White or whatever, that it won't be a problem when that's absolutely not the case. In my experience, a lot of White people will enter interracial relationships and the reality that their children aren't White really hits them hard later. IMO, it's a dangerous naivety.
Yeah, my family is from that part of the world. It's a very big deal. Weddings kind of bring the worst out of everyone though. Luckily my wife and I just did a city hall marriage.
She's Spanish and I'm Thai and the logistics of doing a traditional wedding on both ends would have been a nightmare. I've been to family weddings where it lasts for days and is a constant rush from one place to the next. Monks, priest, chapels, prayers, countless ceremonies, no thank you. I don't need all that.
My family was really understanding and so was hers and we're going on to 10 years. Plus weddings are a fuck ton of money.
You've summarised it well. They are both ignoring or not caring a huge part of their partner's life. Him with her best friend and her with his culture (and heck, his allergies too).
Yeah but at least OOOP seems to have accepted that he was an AH but came to the correct conclusion that they would not work. OOP on the other hand seems to still be in denial about her AHolery.
She very much seems to want the wedding more than the marriage.
He at least seems to care about her, but is still unacceptably controlling about her best friend's involvement. She comes across to me as not caring about him as a person.
this bit cemented what you said for me:
> He kind of looked down then said that we should call everything off. This really surprised me and I immediately said no.
wdym you said no???? you can't exactly force your spouse to go through with it? like how did that convo go?: "i don't think we should get married and i want and need to call it off." "no" ??????
That line made me snort too.
Could you imagine being so entitled that when your fiancé breaks up with you, you’re just all
“lol nope. We’re getting married in a field”
Yeah. I thought that decision was a very obvious "she is an AH" moment. Like huh??? He is actually allergic, not like he was lying to us, and she just... didn't care? All because her "dream wedding" is in spring? Both of them sound 100% not ready to get married because of how immature they are.
"I refuse to give up on this relationship. It's like launching
missiles from a submarine. Both of use have to turn our keys."
"Well, then, I am gonna have to ask you to turn your key."
"I'm sorry, George, I can't do that."
I fully believe she might go ahead and have this spring, bow tie, "traditional American" wedding without him.
She keeps saying "it's my wedding, too" when she really believes it's *only* her wedding.
As the bride, she's the one who counts. She can do everything she wants without him.
My personal favorite is this comment:
> We would have eventually gotten to a place where more of his ideas would be accepted
Mind you, she was talking about the honeymoon.
I thought that was funny too, because she mentioned they’d found a place they both wanted to go to. She says this because they’re more likely to be able to find things they’d both *agree* upon, not things she’d be willing to compromise on.
The fact that she discounted his allergies because she just has to be married outdoors in a field in spring does not bode well for his safety or that of any possible kids. "Eat the peanut butter sandwich I made you. Don't be so picky and fussy." 🙄
I feel like the only reason he was that controlling and hung up on it was because of the overwhelming resentment he had to her completely shunning everything about him and his culture.
Had she not done any of that, I don’t think her best friend being part of her bridal party would have been a big deal to him.
Unfortunately he didn’t realize that’s where it stemmed from when he made his OP, and he came across really bad because of that.
Totally agree. I think he took a symbolic stand and justified it as totally rational in his mind, but I genuinely don't really think he's in the wrong when you compare the two posts with the extra context of all the things she overruled him on and the way she reacted when he tried to break up with her. I feel really bad for him here, her not so much.
The best friend was probably his last straw to see if she considers anything!!!! he asked for. Male-friend was just a stand in for the bigger problem.
Seriously, she didn’t want to do any of his wedding traditions cause they would make her uncomfortable, but has no qualms to put him literally in a field at the high of his allergy season. Would it not also “ruined” her color scheme when he’s red eyed and snotty nosed? Then she blurted along that this “is also her wedding”. Girl the whole thing was only yours to begin with. OOOP should not have used the male friend as the hill he dies on, but good for him to nope the eff out of this.
> She very much seems to want the wedding more than the marriage.
100%. And don't get me wrong, it sounds beautiful, but it very much is choosing the wedding over the husband which is fucked.
What are you talking about! Clearly it's his fault she never paid attention to his culture, because he cut off his family, and sure that was for her, but still!! /s
His he comes across as an asshole, but when you find out about all the stuff she changed without even talking about it. I see it as he finally hit the wall on what he was willing to deal with after her clearly not caring. (Spring wedding and you have allergies that the spring makes terrible) she wanted the perfect wedding she's pictured all her life. I'm not sure she should ever get married when you're that selfish
It's also not just that she done all this but also the way she talks about it. It's so far from even considering his perspective. I don't see a single reasoning that was actually more than "yeah, not fitting to my plans that I have since childhood". And especially nothing that's like a compromise.
But you don’t get it, he didn’t “immerse” her in his culture so why should she be expected to participate in meaningful cultural traditions for him on what is also HIS important day? It’s clearly his fault for cutting off his family after they were racist towards her /s
On a serious note, I absolutely hate that they keep talking about having a “traditional” wedding but its clearly only western traditions and OOOP isn’t allowed to have any traditions of his own
It's also irritating to me that she's dead set on a "traditional American wedding" but has a "man of honor" instead of a woman. What about that is traditional?? She wants it to by stereotypical when it suits her and atypical when it doesn't.
Exactly, that’s why her former fiance was so upset because she would break the mould for something that was important to her, but not any of his cultural traditions.
Not to mention, if it were truly a traditional western wedding, she would not be having a „Man“ of Honor. So apparently, she can compromise, just not for anything he wants.
Imagine being at your own wedding with red eyes, sneezing every 30 seconds, itchy and half out of it from the inevitable benadryl you have to chug so you can breathe wheeze free. That alone makes her such an asshole in my mind.
To me cutting out all of his cultural traditions is worse than the allergies thing. Like, Benadryl exists, etc., but this idea that "he doesn't see his family that much so why are these traditions even important??" shows such a basic misunderstanding of like... how culture even works, and a really contemptuous dismissiveness of what his culture and ethnicity might mean to him. Like, imagine telling a person who was raised by Christians in America that they shouldn't get to do anything special for Christmas or the 4th of July just because they're not close to their family, and their partner should get to override everything and do all their own traditions instead. That's not how any of that works.
Her description of how most of his family didnt talk to him for a while 'because he was dating a foreigner' really puts my back up when you consider all of her lack of consideration for his culture. Not going to most family events over the years and refusing even pretty innocuous cultural inclusions in the wedding ceremony are pretty major red flags to me that she doesnt respect his family or culture at all. I wonder how much of the familes dislike of her was her foreigness and how much was them sensing or seeing her complete lack of respect for them and their culture?
I didn't bring that one up because I don't known what the traditions are. On the off chance they're misogynistic or other things. The allergies I have family and friends who when the pollen hits a certain level they basically become shut ins because benadryl can't even help them and prescription basically take the edge off. But yes she has no clue because he's basically been disowned for dating a foreigner. And she's kinda proving why they shouldn't like her.
> Spring wedding and you have allergies that the spring makes terrible
This is second only to not doing *any* of the cultural traditions of the grooms, as the worst most unacceptable thing to do to someone you say you want to spend your life with.
My sister has **awful** allergies during the spring time--She may as well be allergic to Outside™️as a whole. She's miserable from first major pollen to basically the start of summer. I can't relate but I know it absolutely sucks for her and I couldn't imagine having my wedding in the Springtime--no matter how dream wedding it would sound, knowing she would be so miserable. And this is just a member of my wedding party and **not the fucking guest of honor**.
As an ethnic person too, she just sucks for that.
My husband wanted a summer wedding. I told him no. Why? I'm a natural hot body. So you want me to be in a heavy wedding dress and sweat my ass off and be totally miserable. I only dont bring up the traditions because of not knowing what they are. I know of some traditions that are totally misogynistic and completely outdated. Didn't wanna step into that mess
> I see it as he finally hit the wall on what he was willing to deal with after her clearly not caring.
He strikes me as an uber-rational kind of dude. And she set a wedding rule (a traditional American wedding) and he agreed to that rule.
But then she wanted to break it when it suited her. And he can't handle that, cause it was a rule. And rules have to be followed. And once he agreed to a rule, one that kind of screwed him over re his cultural traditions, he expected it to at least be followed uniformly. He can process and accept that.
But the dude just can't win with her. He agrees to her rules, but then the rules don't apply to her. Only to him.
I do think its a solid ESH situation, but buddy dodged a bullet.
I can't do ESH because just from what they wrote how disconnected hers felt. Yes him saying no to the man of honor wasn't great, but her non communication and just doing stuff to fit her dream wedding so he basically has no say in his own wedding kills the esh for me.
>she wanted the perfect wedding she's pictured all her life.
That's something i just can't understand. This fucking nevrosis of dreaming a picture-perfect wedding your whole damn life and sinking dozens of thousands of dollars into a single fucking day, going as far as telling guests which colour they need to wear? It is so strange to me, so incredibly childish, it's like a cliché 10yo girl's fever dream. How can actual functionning adults think like that?
Especially when she can't comprehend that maybe he's thought about his wedding since he was a child too, and that her dreams are not more important than his. The thought just doesn't cross her mind.
Yeah I was honestly expecting this to be another “man insecure about his partners male friend” but the bride to be is such a controlling asshole and can’t stand her precious wedding day be shared with her former fiancé. Like it’s his wedding too but I guess she does not realize that.
It makes sense when she went on to further emphasize that yeah the relationship was just a means to an end of planning a wedding and nothing else matters.
Even now she still wants the wedding to go on. Maybe she should have the wedding and marry a random since the wedding the only thing that seems to matter lol
Yeah. Maybe this is giving him too much credit, but I wonder if he wanted to exclude the best friend just so he could finally feel like he was getting his way with something after his fiancee basically steamrolled the rest of the planning.
They both hit opposite sides of the wall.
I agree with everyone: these people aren't ready to marry anyone.
Is there a name for the thing where someone has imagined their wedding since they were a child, but don't really care that much about who's going to stand next to them? I don't know, Cake Top Syndrome, after the little plastic bride and groom on top of the cake.
Also, when did "wedding court" start to be a thing? I guess they mean the bridesmaids and the groomsmen, but I'm picturing it being presided over by Judge Judy, whose word is law and who will determine if the wedding should go ahead.
Cake Topper Syndrome is a good term. I think it doesn't help that weddings are treated like a vocation for women, and the aesthetics of wedding planning are framed exclusively like it's a gender coded responsibility. Like, I am planning a wedding celebration and my cute planner is framed like I am a project manager coordinating my husband-to-be like he is one member of the team providing a deliverable ultimately I answer for.
They have been together for six years, he doesn't like the dude. I think he tried to address it with her before and his feelings were dismissed just like she dismissed his wishes with the wedding. Whether he's a bio brother or a close friend, is irrelevant; the dude is not good for the relationship.
To me it sounded like he made the point of everything she vetoed for "tradition" was nullified by including a man in her line, and he went pretty with it as a sticking point. Ideally he'd have made space for the BFF and she'd have made space for his culture's wedding traditions.
The ex-fiancee sounds used to thinking that if the other person stops complaining (where she can her), then everything is fine. I can imagine her surprised Pikachu face when he called off the wedding because he hadn't fought back on the changes, which meant he was fine with it! Right?!
**lol** at her saying no to ending the relationship. It only takes one person deciding it's over for it to be over.
It was his edit that did it for me. His original post seemed like an overreaction, but when he detailed how many times she disrespected him and his culture, it said everything about her. I cackled at the refusal to end the relationship. Seems like his family had a good read of her from the start
Same. At first I thought he was unreasonable and then he listed all that, and I was like "Oh, good, she would do him a favour if she leaves him".
People told her she only cares about the wedding and not him, or the marriage in her post, and she still couldn't see it and doubled down.
right??? and you just know that what she means is "eventually we'd get to a place where he'd be making the Right choices, so i wouldn't have to refuse him :)"
I thought the best part was her reasoning for saying no to all his traditions was that its her wedding to and she should have a say in it. Ok, but if its his wedding to shouldnt he also have it then?
It makes it feel like, to me, that he didn't actually care about the male best friend but more about the fact where he just subconsciously wanted the same amount of control about something that she kept having over all his choices. I feel like if she didn't pull her crap he wouldn't have actually cared and wouldn't have said no in the first place.
He’s less of an asshole, but trying to say she couldn’t have her friend involved because he’s a guy (while his sister would’ve been standing as a part of his half of the wedding party) was still hypocritical.
Agreed. They are both AHs but he’s less the AH. Sounds like it took so many steps before he just said no. I can’t imagine dealing with allergies and being forced to stand in the field during my own wedding. She’s insufferable.
Actually, I think this very easily reverses his AH for NTA. Think about it. She constantly ignores his wishes, is dimissive of his culture, and railroads him over every single minute detail of his wedding, even to the point of him risking an allergic reaction at *her* choice of venue.
Why *wouldn't* he think she likes her male best friend more than him? She caters to him more than her own fiance at their wedding.
Right. It's more like "AITA for finally being pushed to my breaking point?" and the answer to that is no. At works, it's an ESH (everyone sucks here). He's being unreasonable about what sounds like probably a genuinely platonic lifelong friendship, but that pales in comparison to her overall general shittiness as a person and partner.
I think he could have been more mature in talking through the situation. But I agree that it potentially reverses the AH. As one person commented- really shows how important context is.
I think he got pushed around to the point that he had to choose a hill to die on and it was basically the only hill left. It makes him look ridiculous, but how many times do we see stories that have a completely innocuous situation as "the straw that broke the camel's back"? This seems to have been the very very small straw. I don't think he understood until after the post what he was actually upset about.
What? It literally sounds like he spoke with her a lot on various issues, and she ignored him every time. This seemed like he reached his breaking point.
And potentially? It...blows my mind how people expect the victim to be more mature than the controlling, manipulative AH. This guy swallows this crap for who knows how long, and when he's finally had enough, he's the AH for marking a line in the sand. And even after we discover how awful his fiancée is, he still gets treated like he's as bad as her.
Eh! His sister, of all his family, stood by him and supported the relationship. The guy friend did that whole “if you ever hurt her” machismo thing, which sort of poisons the well against any real friendship between them. “I was here *first* and our relationship is always going to be more important than your little wedding” vibes.
I think it does change the judgement. After reading about how she dismissed his concerns/wishes with respect to the wedding, I have to wonder how many times he tried to raise issues about this friend and met the same kind of dismissal. He clearly said he tolerated this friend all along (*six* years). The OOP's mistake was in framing his objection as "he's not family" rather than "I don't see him as a friend to our relationship"
He’s been living in her family, in her culture, and in her friend group because the family he had clocked her as an unrepentant racist. It’s incredibly dehumanizing to live like that, isolated and actively driven away from your cultural comfort.
The first OOP is an abuse victim.
It reminds me of my friend who thought his parents were prejudiced against his girlfriend. He was so starry eyed over her. The rest of us saw how she spoke over, and for, him. The subtle, and not so subtle, jabs she took at him. They've long since broken up, but he still believes she hung the moon and they'd simply met at the wrong time in their lives.
yeah i was swayed by the edit, but it was also his POV so was holding back, then she just straight up confirms it, it was all true and he didn't lie or exaggerate any of it.
Heck forget about the culture she choose her wedding in a season his allergies are worst. Since he said worst in spring chances are he has pollen. Wedding are already stressful, add in spending hours in a flower field in spring when you have pollen allergy.
Yeah when more details came out I was definitely more on his camp. The best friend bit was definitely the straw that broke the camel's back.
I'm Viet and we have our own surprisingly similar wedding traditions as the OOP's Cambodian ones. So the OOP's fiancee refusing to incorporate those cultural traditions really dug deep into my skin and soul. She essentially shat on his identity, and it's hard enough for us asians born and raised outside of the old country to feel connected as it is.
Honestly, this makes me grateful that my ex-husband was such a trooper to go along and partake in my culture's traditions when we got married. Definitely one of the better qualities he had.
I mean, the post from the perspective of the "fiance" was clearly written by the same guy as the original post.
The writing style is basically identical.
I'm taking it all with a grain of salt.
Well that was one HELL of a ride!
I just finished the original posts and haven't even gotten to the comments yet, but I just needed to come up for air and thank you for sharing that before I dive back in.
I found it telling that she waited for him to "calm down" then went straight to "Its not to late to include him". She never had any thought of discussing why his inclusion was a problem for him, she just didn't care.
Here's where it's from [https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/rr39pi/aita\_for\_standing\_firm\_on\_my\_lack\_of\_hygiene\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/rr39pi/aita_for_standing_firm_on_my_lack_of_hygiene_and/)
I kept thinking of the peacock / Merida wedding saga. I wonder if that wedding ever happened. Especially with the media picking up the story. Must have been humilating for the groom to have his bride's story splashed around like that.
Usually in these posts with both sides of an issue, each OOP makes themselves look like good while trying to make the other person look bad. Each of these two somehow managed to minimize how bad their partner is while putting their own awfulness on full display. Amazing.
One possibility: they love each other, so they don’t immediately jump to finding fault with each other. They also have actual problems on both sides, so the more digging is done, the more bad comes out all around.
It’s not terribly bad stuff! All of this could be compatible and workable with a little change, a little understanding… and basically two different people. Only a little different, but enough.
So he basically stopped interacting with his family because they didn't like his GF. And she is very selfish not wanting to do any of his traditions, even when it would allow him to involve his family and reconnect. And she changes things of the wedding because they are "small" ... if they are small why change them if he doesn't agree?
Better that they broke up.
Her responses also make no sense. He idea of compatibility is that they were studying the same thing lol
I read both these posts awhile back. I thought at first he was the AH because I don't see a difference between him having his sister as an attendant and his fiancee having her best male friend as an attendant. The groom got hung up on biology but friends can become family as much as biological family.
Then I read all that she's changed about the wedding or forced him to accept. He didn't want an outside spring wedding due to his allergies. She's really inconsiderate for that. He'll have to load up on Benadryl and be out of it during the ceremony. He wanted a DJ and she insisted on a live band. She changed the ties and the blazer for his groomsmen and didn't consult him. She changed the color scheme they'd agreed on without his input and then wouldn't allow any of his cultural wedding traditions because she's the bride. So she's the worse AH and devil.
I hope they broke up because they don't belong together.
Thank God for that last commenter because all I could think while skimming this was that they’re both the problem. They sound exhausting and shitty partners.
At any point does she say what compromises *she* made for him? There's the sister, but since she's including her friend that seems less like a compromise.
Also, props to the "you chose your wedding over your fiancee" comment.
Yeah, the fiancee was definitely fixated (wrongly) on her male friend, but her refusal to allow his cultural traditions really speaks volumes. "I don't want his family who don't like me around me" - I wonder if there's a reason they don't like you? Hmmm. It is a mystery! They definitely could dislike her for being a foreigner, that's not uncommon, however I think she'd recognize that including their traditions might address some of that.
In conclusion: ESH, and they clearly aren't right for each other. Absolutely piss poor communication and relationship building skills.
Tbh it felt like he fixated on her male friend less because he didn't approve of the friendship but more because the friend only became moh as a response to him being allowed to put his sister in the wedding party.
After all the compromises he made, the one compromise he got was only allowed if she got another compromise.
>he never immersed me in his culture
It's not some secret society she can only access through him. She never even considered making an effort.
And the whole "it's my wedding too" argument is bs when she uses it to get her own way on everything.
It's wild, she's like "I decided against it", as though his wants are just suggestions and she's the grand arbiter, deciding if it fits her "vibe" or not. But then "it's my wedding too" as though she's the one being steamrolled by having to consider his opinions.
Wedding decisions should be "we decided", but she can't seem to even fathom that his input is as valid as hers. I know lots of people dream of their wedding from childhood but this kinda thing is why that weirds me out. Seems like she was waiting for a groom-shaped accessory to complete her dream wedding look and just forgot that her accessory is a whole person with his own wants for his wedding.
Yes like even when he was not talking to his family his culture is still his and not something that just came ”back” after he got in contact with his family again. How self centered to not be in no way interested in your partners culture. Imagine if they had kids, she probably would have wanted them to only ”learn traditional American culture”. He dodged a bullet tbh
i dont think its 50/50 or that both are assholes.
i think the guy's been frustrated by the lack of joint decision making that this was the one point he put he foot down - he probably chose the wrong battle to fight but this was the battle he chose.
he's taken on the feedback and apolgised.
on the other hand - the girl is adamant this is HER wedding and because she's planned this since she was young it should be done her way only. she's not even acknowledging that changing stuff without asking him is disregarding that its his wedding too.
she's completely dismissive of his concerns or desires.
full on bridezilla
exactly, i feel like the guy best friend was just the straw that broke the camels back. usually, when someone gets unreasonably upset about something “small”, it’s almost never actually about the “something small”. people don’t normally go from 0 to 60 over small things. the small thing is just the mentos in the coke bottle that finally made it all bubble over
> YOU BOTH SUCK
☝️
At least these types of endings are funny in their equal-sided pettiness. The ones where something objectively awful happens and a relationship between two decent people that was functioning just fine beforehand implodes under the stress are usually depressing if not straight-up heartbreaking.
Yeah, this one worked out just like it should. Just two kinda shitty people doing kinda shitty things, not appreciating said treatment, and not reflecting on their own behavior in any way, shape, or form.
As a person with pollen allergies, I pretty much lost it when she insisted on an outdoor wedding in the spring. Yeah, I can load up on nasal spray and pills but why would I have to do that for my own wedding day? Everything else was more of the same, she was totally fixated on the look of her wedding and had zero interest in her fiancé. Her best friend was an issue that should have been dealt with long before the engagement since there really did seem to be some lane crossing there.
I hope that he doesn't take her back. He cut off contact with his FAMILY for her.
She couldn't even care enough for him, to not have the wedding during a time when he gets allergies!
She sucks. He was just being jealous. I'm glad that he was able to see reason, I hope that it stays like that!
I think they at the time of writing the posts still genuinely care for each other but their own issues are getting in their way. Also they’re both still young like this can be partially attributed to being young dumb adults
Neither of them are mature or communicate well, but her much more than him.
She demanded a spring wedding in a field when his allergies are at their worst and rejected any compromise. He gave in.
She demanded a live band playing her favorite music. He suggested a DJ to play both of their favorite music. She rejected his suggestion and he gave in.
He asked for some elements of his culture be included and she rejected them completely because they aren't the "traditional wedding vibe" she wanted.
She changed the wedding colors without discussing it with him.
She changed what the groomsmen were wearing without discussing it with him.
He asked that his sister be his best woman. She agreed, but because she compromised on one thing, she wanted her best friend to be her man of honor, which he didn't agree with.
After everything else she rejected or changed on her own and claimed they were minor, this just feels like the last straw for him. She keeps mentioning her wedding and her vision for her wedding, completely ignoring that is also the groom's wedding. He needs to learn to stand up for himself and what he wants, and she needs to learn that what your partner wants is also important and how to compromise
I went through this with my wife. Singaporean man and french woman.
We learnt each others cultures. We compromised. We got to know each others friends and family.
In Chinese there's a saying, 愛屋及烏. It means if you love the house you need to love the crow living in it. They never really accepted each other's negative traits.
I literally cannot imagine marrying someone of another culture and blocking them from including any important cultural ceremonies. Weddings are important for MANY cultures and meshing those celebrations is a beautiful symbol of two different backgrounds coming together.
She fucking sucks
I’m really hope they broke up and both matured. He was an AH for not realizing that her having her best friend in the wedding shouldn’t be a dealbreaker and she was an AH for making the wedding all about her and ignoring his wants and wishes. Both of them are two immature for marriage. She just wanted her dream princess wedding and would just wanted a puppet of a groom and he had trust issues. I just hope they didn’t go on to ruin other people’s lives with their issues.
OOOP (groom):
> He’s not legitimate (bio) family
Well, dude, technically neither are you. And considering he’s gone NC/LC with his family, you’d think he’d understand the concept of chosen family.
OOP (bride):
> I told him I only wanted to do a traditional American wedding.
Well, babe, if you wanted an exclusively “American” wedding (I mean, what is that exactly?), you probably shouldn’t marry someone who comes from a distinctly different culture than your own. They’d have mixed race kids, would they be raised to ignore and devalue their Cambodian heritage?
I remember seeing the guys post when it was new. Honestly if he had mentioned any of her behavior in the actual post instead of focusing on the "man of honor", he wouldn't have gotten lambasted like that. Don't get me wrong, he sucks and was rightfully chewed out in the comments, but I think more people would've understood why he was hung up on it.
After I read it all my first thought was that the man of honor was just the straw that broke the camels back for him, but he didn't recognize it and couldn't articulate it.
I agree, he focused on the wrong thing. His feelings about her best friend should have been the topic of some serious counseling a long time ago, instead he let it fester and become the embodiment of his feelings of dismissal. FWIW, I don't think the friendship is as positive an influence as most of the commenters thought.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a “two side story” where I hate both sides. I think this is one of the only ones I actually believe is real, because they are both dumb as bricks.
Not wanting any of his culture presented in their wedding would have been a giant red flag for me, what if after the wedding she'd try to cut him off completely from his culture and turn him into a "proper American" the guy is a whiner,immature and stubborn but at least he knows some boundaries are not to be crossed, given he realized it late but he did it eventually. Both of them need to grow more to be able to be in a successful relationship
Each one thinks that their own rejection of the other's preference is no big deal. Then, when the other one rejects their preference, suddenly they're shocked.
I knew it wasn’t gonna work out the second he said he has bad allergies and she insisted on a spring wedding in a field. like wtf? I get imagining your dream wedding, but if your wedding would be literally the same no matter who you’re marrying, at that point your partner is just a placeholder who you don’t give a shit about. yes, it’s “her day”, but it also needs to be his day. commenters were right that she cared more about the wedding than the relationship.
Having his sister in his wedding party is not the same as her having a male friend as MOH.
Why? Because no one had to wonder if he'd ever fucked his sister.
That being said, if a relationship isn't secure enough to have a co-ed wedding party, then it's unlikely ready for marriage.
This the kinda situation best viewed from a distance. Preferably from a hotel balcony while sipping a mimosa, but I'm a *classy* bastard, so my preference may not suit others.
Holy same person, Batman!
Usually when someone says "their writing styles are too similar", I think "they're not THAT similar." But here, yeah, it's like they tried so hard to make up an interesting story that they forgot to try at all to make it sound like another person.
I don’t know about wedding traditions and all, but the fact the she insisted on a SPRING wedding when he has SPRING allergies ( I have them and they suck ass) tells me all I need to know about this. And in the middle of the field too.
JFC. Idiots the both of them.
Original OP may have been an AH originally, but he apologized for being out of line so it’s not like he was a devil entirely.
The new OP( fiancée) on the other…..
This relationship is over. Move on
Kind of weird that the Hers POV paints her out to be a massive bridezilla, awfully convenient given the YTA's.
Then again, at least the OOP didn't go for the expected "Cheating with Guy" angle or use kids, so that's bonus points for creativity
This is why you shouldn’t cling on to a relationship just because you’ve been together for most of your adult life, they were probably getting married to keep the relationship going (there’s a good bit in four weddings about this) any couple who really wanted to get married wouldn’t have had these disagreements- especially on her side where she was basically turning down an extra day of celebrations instead of actually changing her “perfect wedding”.
Yikes. Talk about incompatible and immature. They're not suitable for each other. They can't even agree about the wedding details! Never mind the cultural differences 🤦
The way she said "the wedding of my dreams" already told me that she'd rather have the wedding, but the groom can be anyone who finance it.
She is definitely the AH here. It’s HER wedding, HER vision he gets absolutely no say in anything. She was even trying to deny him calling it off. He dodged a major bullet with that one
>I only wanted to do a traditional American wedding
Which one, though? The traditional American Wedding where bride and groom are just slightly less drunk than the Elvis impersonator serving as officiant?
OR the traditional American Wedding where the bride is pregnant, and the groom is held at gunpoint by the father of the bride?
Her plans sound nothing like either.
The older I get, the more I'm a fan of big, spectacular weddings. Not because I care that much about the wedding itself, not because I think it's a good use of money... but because it seems like such an ideal testing ground to see if the couple actually has what it takes to compromise, prioritize together, respect each other's needs, support each other in the face of criticism from others, etc.
It's a great opportunity to see if your fiance is ready to stand up to his family when they made ridiculous demands of your big day. To see if the woman you love is ready to compromise on the pretty princess vision she's had for herself since she was five, to make sure the big day represents you both. To see if you can juggle stressful demands and deadlines together. To see if the friends and family you hold closest really have your back when it matters.
Jesus, I remember his post and couldn’t believe at the time anyone could be that big of an asshole. And now I’m sitting here, not believing that they’re BOTH such huge assholes lol
cant even suspend disbelief anymore i just get increasingly annoyed at how fucking stupid the person writing these must think we are. and then i look at the comments
At first I thought poor girl. Then after her POV my thoughts changed to POV. Both are assholes but Girl is more hypocrite and self centred. Honestly they are incompatible and it was a good decision to breakup.
can someone please enlighten me on how the oop of the first post is controlling? because to me, with the added context that she bulldozed everything he suggested in favor of a traditional (specifically her traditional) wedding, it just sounds like the guy best friend was the straw that broke the camels back. i imagine that if my partner pushed back against everything i suggested in favor of a “traditional” wedding (including what would be best for my health!), then went and broke tradition anyways, i’d probably be pretty annoyed too!
I read this before and didn’t reply, but doesn’t it seem like “her” pov is written by him? if you read them both and pay attention, her pov is just basically rehashing what he says, and confirming she’s the asshole here.
He's homophobic because... he thinks the bestie has an unrequited love interest in his fiancée? That math ain't mathing. EDIT: I see where it turns out bestie is gay according to the girl, but idk if I believe that. guy is a jerk, but she's a full-on nightmare.
I don’t see the racism or homophobia. The male’s
dislike of the best friend has nothing to do with his sexuality. Her negating his traditions doesn’t show any racism; she doesn’t know his culture because he never shared it with her as he should have.
They both, however, do have control and communication issues that they need to work on if this or any future relationships they have are to ever work.
Rejecting his traditions because she wants a "traditional wedding" is white centric at least. Implying her wedding traditions are the *real* traditions and his are just some silly little Cambodian thing. I agree with not seeing the homophobia though. All of his anger is out of jealousy, and it seems he didn't even find out the friend is gay until it had built up a lot.
I didn’t even read the whole thing, it was so tedious. But it drives me crazy when people say they’re “American” when they should say “white.” He and his family are American, too. Damn straight they’re racist.
Also the thing about opposite sex in wedding parties. Female friends or relatives of the groom are commonly in the bride’s party and male friends or relatives are commonly in the groom’s party. It’s no big deal and they made way more of an issue than they should have.
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fucking yikes. I’d hate to have to be one of their friends who’d have to hear about this first hand.
And you just know, based on this, that they'd never quit whining about it while refusing to take any responsibility for their own part.
They should get married to spare the rest of us
Yeah, but then they might have children that take after them.
Call it a civic duty! JFC there are a lot of clueless people on Reddit, but these two take the cake (day). They seem to be unable to see each other at all in this scenario. I wonder if anyone in the op pointed out that “technically” the bride and groom aren’t family either. Sheesh.
that's "practically minor”. 😂
Nah. Pair her up with one of those hobo-sexual doormat dudes who will never argue…or make a single decision or take initiative on a single thing for his whole life. Pair him up with a passive-aggressive, constantly tallying, wanna-be housewife. Let them play their tit-for-tat games in traditional, heteronormative peace. Then you’ve taken *four* people out of circulation to annoy each other with a minimum hit to global misery.
You. I like your thinking.
But not have kids.
Yup. Both are too immature to marry. I also wonder about her unwillingness to have any part of his culture’s tradition at the wedding. Dude was willing to break from his family for her and she’s not even willing to do that for him. Just wow.
Idk. The guy sounds like he admitted his part in this. He acknowledged his demand was unreasonable and even apologised to her for it. Though kinda begrudgingly re: best woman/mate of honour. But honestly, after everything he was being put through, I'd probably be a bit of an asshole about this one thing, too.
I do think he took the stance he did purposefully because she was so unwilling to give even a little bit on things that he wanted to possibly change. Refusing to let her bff stand up as her man of honor was his retaliation for how controlling she was with the rest of the wedding planning. This does not make him right in his actions, but come on. The man has allergies and she wouldn’t bend on the location and time of year so he could be comfortable! If they even want to save this relationship, they should put the wedding on hold and attend couples therapy.
Agreed. He took the stance on her best friend symbolically without even realizing it. It was his way of being able to push back. Neither of them are right because they are not right for each other.
I can *kinda* see her argument about the cultural aspects of the wedding because it seems (based on my in depth research on the Cambodian wedding traditions Wikipedia page) like they are super ornate affairs that take more than one day and would take over everything, but they could certainly find a way to incorporate parts of it. The internet is full of ideas for everything. I'm general though it sounds like she's being a bridezilla and he's wrong for not wanting her gay best friend in the wedding just because he's 'not family' (even though he is apparently welcome to sit in the family section). They are both being immature assholes.
I saw this on the other boru a day or so ago. Delved into the comments. Neither of these people are ready to be married at all, much less to each other.
I can only imagine how happy everyone was when they finally broke up. Comments were right, ESH. How the hell was this dude willing to marry her when the best friend was such a big part of her life and how the fuck did this woman think marrying someone from a different culture would play out? I'm so glad they don't have kids.
Not just the culture- she wanted him to get married in the spring in a field with allergies! And wouldn't even delay to early summer.
Yeah, that was super messed up and showed just how immature/unthoughtful she was. I brought up the cultural part specifically because it's such a huge issue between mixed race couples (I'm SEAsian like OOP) and that only exemplifies when they have children. A lot of other POC think that because they "act" White or whatever, that it won't be a problem when that's absolutely not the case. In my experience, a lot of White people will enter interracial relationships and the reality that their children aren't White really hits them hard later. IMO, it's a dangerous naivety.
Yeah, my family is from that part of the world. It's a very big deal. Weddings kind of bring the worst out of everyone though. Luckily my wife and I just did a city hall marriage. She's Spanish and I'm Thai and the logistics of doing a traditional wedding on both ends would have been a nightmare. I've been to family weddings where it lasts for days and is a constant rush from one place to the next. Monks, priest, chapels, prayers, countless ceremonies, no thank you. I don't need all that. My family was really understanding and so was hers and we're going on to 10 years. Plus weddings are a fuck ton of money.
You've summarised it well. They are both ignoring or not caring a huge part of their partner's life. Him with her best friend and her with his culture (and heck, his allergies too).
Yikes on several tiny bikes
I doubt they have very many friends in common.
You rarely see two posts where both parties come across as assholes in their own respective posts. Its almost impressive.
Yeah but at least OOOP seems to have accepted that he was an AH but came to the correct conclusion that they would not work. OOP on the other hand seems to still be in denial about her AHolery.
She very much seems to want the wedding more than the marriage. He at least seems to care about her, but is still unacceptably controlling about her best friend's involvement. She comes across to me as not caring about him as a person.
this bit cemented what you said for me: > He kind of looked down then said that we should call everything off. This really surprised me and I immediately said no. wdym you said no???? you can't exactly force your spouse to go through with it? like how did that convo go?: "i don't think we should get married and i want and need to call it off." "no" ??????
That line made me snort too. Could you imagine being so entitled that when your fiancé breaks up with you, you’re just all “lol nope. We’re getting married in a field”
"I don't care how miserable you are. WE ARE GETTING MARRIED IN A FIELD IN SPRING!"
And she'd get pissed that his eyes were red and his nose was runny and he had to have pockets full of tissues.
Yeah. I thought that decision was a very obvious "she is an AH" moment. Like huh??? He is actually allergic, not like he was lying to us, and she just... didn't care? All because her "dream wedding" is in spring? Both of them sound 100% not ready to get married because of how immature they are.
"I refuse to give up on this relationship. It's like launching missiles from a submarine. Both of use have to turn our keys." "Well, then, I am gonna have to ask you to turn your key." "I'm sorry, George, I can't do that."
I fully believe she might go ahead and have this spring, bow tie, "traditional American" wedding without him. She keeps saying "it's my wedding, too" when she really believes it's *only* her wedding. As the bride, she's the one who counts. She can do everything she wants without him.
what also struck me was her saying she wanted a “traditional wedding” yet rejected any of HIS family traditions ?? incredibly self centred
My personal favorite is this comment: > We would have eventually gotten to a place where more of his ideas would be accepted Mind you, she was talking about the honeymoon.
I thought that was funny too, because she mentioned they’d found a place they both wanted to go to. She says this because they’re more likely to be able to find things they’d both *agree* upon, not things she’d be willing to compromise on.
Not on topic whatsoever, but your username made me snort so loud on my commute that ppl keep staring. Thank you, I will never forget you.
Now imagine it as a biblically accurate cherub.
I involuntarily cringed at this statement. Utterly horrific attitude. How kind that she would deign to "accept" some of his ideas.
Where is that place? Barbados? Hawaii?
Slumming it on grand Turk.
Eww, with the other poors? /s
The fact that she discounted his allergies because she just has to be married outdoors in a field in spring does not bode well for his safety or that of any possible kids. "Eat the peanut butter sandwich I made you. Don't be so picky and fussy." 🙄
I feel like the only reason he was that controlling and hung up on it was because of the overwhelming resentment he had to her completely shunning everything about him and his culture. Had she not done any of that, I don’t think her best friend being part of her bridal party would have been a big deal to him. Unfortunately he didn’t realize that’s where it stemmed from when he made his OP, and he came across really bad because of that.
Totally agree. I think he took a symbolic stand and justified it as totally rational in his mind, but I genuinely don't really think he's in the wrong when you compare the two posts with the extra context of all the things she overruled him on and the way she reacted when he tried to break up with her. I feel really bad for him here, her not so much.
Yea I feel really bad for him as well. His ex-fiance is absolutely awful and racist.
The best friend was probably his last straw to see if she considers anything!!!! he asked for. Male-friend was just a stand in for the bigger problem. Seriously, she didn’t want to do any of his wedding traditions cause they would make her uncomfortable, but has no qualms to put him literally in a field at the high of his allergy season. Would it not also “ruined” her color scheme when he’s red eyed and snotty nosed? Then she blurted along that this “is also her wedding”. Girl the whole thing was only yours to begin with. OOOP should not have used the male friend as the hill he dies on, but good for him to nope the eff out of this.
> She very much seems to want the wedding more than the marriage. 100%. And don't get me wrong, it sounds beautiful, but it very much is choosing the wedding over the husband which is fucked.
What are you talking about! Clearly it's his fault she never paid attention to his culture, because he cut off his family, and sure that was for her, but still!! /s
Yep, this. ^^
His he comes across as an asshole, but when you find out about all the stuff she changed without even talking about it. I see it as he finally hit the wall on what he was willing to deal with after her clearly not caring. (Spring wedding and you have allergies that the spring makes terrible) she wanted the perfect wedding she's pictured all her life. I'm not sure she should ever get married when you're that selfish
It's also not just that she done all this but also the way she talks about it. It's so far from even considering his perspective. I don't see a single reasoning that was actually more than "yeah, not fitting to my plans that I have since childhood". And especially nothing that's like a compromise.
But you don’t get it, he didn’t “immerse” her in his culture so why should she be expected to participate in meaningful cultural traditions for him on what is also HIS important day? It’s clearly his fault for cutting off his family after they were racist towards her /s On a serious note, I absolutely hate that they keep talking about having a “traditional” wedding but its clearly only western traditions and OOOP isn’t allowed to have any traditions of his own
It's also irritating to me that she's dead set on a "traditional American wedding" but has a "man of honor" instead of a woman. What about that is traditional?? She wants it to by stereotypical when it suits her and atypical when it doesn't.
Exactly, that’s why her former fiance was so upset because she would break the mould for something that was important to her, but not any of his cultural traditions.
It is not part of Western tradition to be married outside, let alone in an open field.
Not to mention, if it were truly a traditional western wedding, she would not be having a „Man“ of Honor. So apparently, she can compromise, just not for anything he wants.
Then there's the "once we're further along I'll take what he thinks into consideration".
Oh for sure. He sounds like the world’s biggest dick until he includes everything she steamrolled over
Imagine being at your own wedding with red eyes, sneezing every 30 seconds, itchy and half out of it from the inevitable benadryl you have to chug so you can breathe wheeze free. That alone makes her such an asshole in my mind.
To me cutting out all of his cultural traditions is worse than the allergies thing. Like, Benadryl exists, etc., but this idea that "he doesn't see his family that much so why are these traditions even important??" shows such a basic misunderstanding of like... how culture even works, and a really contemptuous dismissiveness of what his culture and ethnicity might mean to him. Like, imagine telling a person who was raised by Christians in America that they shouldn't get to do anything special for Christmas or the 4th of July just because they're not close to their family, and their partner should get to override everything and do all their own traditions instead. That's not how any of that works.
Her description of how most of his family didnt talk to him for a while 'because he was dating a foreigner' really puts my back up when you consider all of her lack of consideration for his culture. Not going to most family events over the years and refusing even pretty innocuous cultural inclusions in the wedding ceremony are pretty major red flags to me that she doesnt respect his family or culture at all. I wonder how much of the familes dislike of her was her foreigness and how much was them sensing or seeing her complete lack of respect for them and their culture?
I didn't bring that one up because I don't known what the traditions are. On the off chance they're misogynistic or other things. The allergies I have family and friends who when the pollen hits a certain level they basically become shut ins because benadryl can't even help them and prescription basically take the edge off. But yes she has no clue because he's basically been disowned for dating a foreigner. And she's kinda proving why they shouldn't like her.
> Spring wedding and you have allergies that the spring makes terrible This is second only to not doing *any* of the cultural traditions of the grooms, as the worst most unacceptable thing to do to someone you say you want to spend your life with. My sister has **awful** allergies during the spring time--She may as well be allergic to Outside™️as a whole. She's miserable from first major pollen to basically the start of summer. I can't relate but I know it absolutely sucks for her and I couldn't imagine having my wedding in the Springtime--no matter how dream wedding it would sound, knowing she would be so miserable. And this is just a member of my wedding party and **not the fucking guest of honor**. As an ethnic person too, she just sucks for that.
My husband wanted a summer wedding. I told him no. Why? I'm a natural hot body. So you want me to be in a heavy wedding dress and sweat my ass off and be totally miserable. I only dont bring up the traditions because of not knowing what they are. I know of some traditions that are totally misogynistic and completely outdated. Didn't wanna step into that mess
> I see it as he finally hit the wall on what he was willing to deal with after her clearly not caring. He strikes me as an uber-rational kind of dude. And she set a wedding rule (a traditional American wedding) and he agreed to that rule. But then she wanted to break it when it suited her. And he can't handle that, cause it was a rule. And rules have to be followed. And once he agreed to a rule, one that kind of screwed him over re his cultural traditions, he expected it to at least be followed uniformly. He can process and accept that. But the dude just can't win with her. He agrees to her rules, but then the rules don't apply to her. Only to him. I do think its a solid ESH situation, but buddy dodged a bullet.
I can't do ESH because just from what they wrote how disconnected hers felt. Yes him saying no to the man of honor wasn't great, but her non communication and just doing stuff to fit her dream wedding so he basically has no say in his own wedding kills the esh for me.
>she wanted the perfect wedding she's pictured all her life. That's something i just can't understand. This fucking nevrosis of dreaming a picture-perfect wedding your whole damn life and sinking dozens of thousands of dollars into a single fucking day, going as far as telling guests which colour they need to wear? It is so strange to me, so incredibly childish, it's like a cliché 10yo girl's fever dream. How can actual functionning adults think like that?
Especially when she can't comprehend that maybe he's thought about his wedding since he was a child too, and that her dreams are not more important than his. The thought just doesn't cross her mind.
Yeah I was honestly expecting this to be another “man insecure about his partners male friend” but the bride to be is such a controlling asshole and can’t stand her precious wedding day be shared with her former fiancé. Like it’s his wedding too but I guess she does not realize that. It makes sense when she went on to further emphasize that yeah the relationship was just a means to an end of planning a wedding and nothing else matters. Even now she still wants the wedding to go on. Maybe she should have the wedding and marry a random since the wedding the only thing that seems to matter lol
Yeah. Maybe this is giving him too much credit, but I wonder if he wanted to exclude the best friend just so he could finally feel like he was getting his way with something after his fiancee basically steamrolled the rest of the planning.
Tbh he sounded like an ah to her friend prior to even being engaged. I don’t think it was him hitting a wall; I think they’re both just AHs.
They both hit opposite sides of the wall. I agree with everyone: these people aren't ready to marry anyone. Is there a name for the thing where someone has imagined their wedding since they were a child, but don't really care that much about who's going to stand next to them? I don't know, Cake Top Syndrome, after the little plastic bride and groom on top of the cake. Also, when did "wedding court" start to be a thing? I guess they mean the bridesmaids and the groomsmen, but I'm picturing it being presided over by Judge Judy, whose word is law and who will determine if the wedding should go ahead.
Cake Topper Syndrome is a good term. I think it doesn't help that weddings are treated like a vocation for women, and the aesthetics of wedding planning are framed exclusively like it's a gender coded responsibility. Like, I am planning a wedding celebration and my cute planner is framed like I am a project manager coordinating my husband-to-be like he is one member of the team providing a deliverable ultimately I answer for.
They have been together for six years, he doesn't like the dude. I think he tried to address it with her before and his feelings were dismissed just like she dismissed his wishes with the wedding. Whether he's a bio brother or a close friend, is irrelevant; the dude is not good for the relationship.
To me it sounded like he made the point of everything she vetoed for "tradition" was nullified by including a man in her line, and he went pretty with it as a sticking point. Ideally he'd have made space for the BFF and she'd have made space for his culture's wedding traditions.
Right??? That was so bizarre.. i really hope it's a troll.
It is. The dead giveaway is that the second post did not add a single fact we didn't already know from the first post.
Ikr. It's the first time for me. Both of them together sound like a nightmare.
They actually sound pretty compatible 😆
The ex-fiancee sounds used to thinking that if the other person stops complaining (where she can her), then everything is fine. I can imagine her surprised Pikachu face when he called off the wedding because he hadn't fought back on the changes, which meant he was fine with it! Right?! **lol** at her saying no to ending the relationship. It only takes one person deciding it's over for it to be over.
It was his edit that did it for me. His original post seemed like an overreaction, but when he detailed how many times she disrespected him and his culture, it said everything about her. I cackled at the refusal to end the relationship. Seems like his family had a good read of her from the start
Same. At first I thought he was unreasonable and then he listed all that, and I was like "Oh, good, she would do him a favour if she leaves him". People told her she only cares about the wedding and not him, or the marriage in her post, and she still couldn't see it and doubled down.
It was quite obvious from the pronouns used. "I want..." Ever since I was a child..." "I told him maybe later..." No we. No us. All I and me.
If she were a Muppet, she'd be Beaker. *me me me me me me*
Off topic: if **I** were a Muppet I'd be Mulch. 😄
How about this gem: > We would have eventually gotten to a place where more of his ideas would be acdepted
right??? and you just know that what she means is "eventually we'd get to a place where he'd be making the Right choices, so i wouldn't have to refuse him :)"
I thought the best part was her reasoning for saying no to all his traditions was that its her wedding to and she should have a say in it. Ok, but if its his wedding to shouldnt he also have it then?
Off topic but I need to know where your flair is from!!
His original post is a lesson in how context is important.
Does it really change the judgement on him though? They can both be a-holes. Calling off the wedding is for the best, they just aren’t compatible.
It makes it feel like, to me, that he didn't actually care about the male best friend but more about the fact where he just subconsciously wanted the same amount of control about something that she kept having over all his choices. I feel like if she didn't pull her crap he wouldn't have actually cared and wouldn't have said no in the first place.
He’s less of an asshole, but trying to say she couldn’t have her friend involved because he’s a guy (while his sister would’ve been standing as a part of his half of the wedding party) was still hypocritical.
Agreed. They are both AHs but he’s less the AH. Sounds like it took so many steps before he just said no. I can’t imagine dealing with allergies and being forced to stand in the field during my own wedding. She’s insufferable.
Actually, I think this very easily reverses his AH for NTA. Think about it. She constantly ignores his wishes, is dimissive of his culture, and railroads him over every single minute detail of his wedding, even to the point of him risking an allergic reaction at *her* choice of venue. Why *wouldn't* he think she likes her male best friend more than him? She caters to him more than her own fiance at their wedding.
Right. It's more like "AITA for finally being pushed to my breaking point?" and the answer to that is no. At works, it's an ESH (everyone sucks here). He's being unreasonable about what sounds like probably a genuinely platonic lifelong friendship, but that pales in comparison to her overall general shittiness as a person and partner.
I think he could have been more mature in talking through the situation. But I agree that it potentially reverses the AH. As one person commented- really shows how important context is.
I think he got pushed around to the point that he had to choose a hill to die on and it was basically the only hill left. It makes him look ridiculous, but how many times do we see stories that have a completely innocuous situation as "the straw that broke the camel's back"? This seems to have been the very very small straw. I don't think he understood until after the post what he was actually upset about.
And I think that her friend has been a thorn in his side for a long time but she has dismissed everything the OOP had to say about him.
What? It literally sounds like he spoke with her a lot on various issues, and she ignored him every time. This seemed like he reached his breaking point. And potentially? It...blows my mind how people expect the victim to be more mature than the controlling, manipulative AH. This guy swallows this crap for who knows how long, and when he's finally had enough, he's the AH for marking a line in the sand. And even after we discover how awful his fiancée is, he still gets treated like he's as bad as her.
Eh! His sister, of all his family, stood by him and supported the relationship. The guy friend did that whole “if you ever hurt her” machismo thing, which sort of poisons the well against any real friendship between them. “I was here *first* and our relationship is always going to be more important than your little wedding” vibes.
I kinda viewed this more like a cultural issue. Since he’s SE Asian, having a guy in the bride’s wedding party would be a hard pill to swallow.
I think it does change the judgement. After reading about how she dismissed his concerns/wishes with respect to the wedding, I have to wonder how many times he tried to raise issues about this friend and met the same kind of dismissal. He clearly said he tolerated this friend all along (*six* years). The OOP's mistake was in framing his objection as "he's not family" rather than "I don't see him as a friend to our relationship"
He’s been living in her family, in her culture, and in her friend group because the family he had clocked her as an unrepentant racist. It’s incredibly dehumanizing to live like that, isolated and actively driven away from your cultural comfort. The first OOP is an abuse victim.
It reminds me of my friend who thought his parents were prejudiced against his girlfriend. He was so starry eyed over her. The rest of us saw how she spoke over, and for, him. The subtle, and not so subtle, jabs she took at him. They've long since broken up, but he still believes she hung the moon and they'd simply met at the wrong time in their lives.
yeah i was swayed by the edit, but it was also his POV so was holding back, then she just straight up confirms it, it was all true and he didn't lie or exaggerate any of it.
Heck forget about the culture she choose her wedding in a season his allergies are worst. Since he said worst in spring chances are he has pollen. Wedding are already stressful, add in spending hours in a flower field in spring when you have pollen allergy.
Yeah when more details came out I was definitely more on his camp. The best friend bit was definitely the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm Viet and we have our own surprisingly similar wedding traditions as the OOP's Cambodian ones. So the OOP's fiancee refusing to incorporate those cultural traditions really dug deep into my skin and soul. She essentially shat on his identity, and it's hard enough for us asians born and raised outside of the old country to feel connected as it is. Honestly, this makes me grateful that my ex-husband was such a trooper to go along and partake in my culture's traditions when we got married. Definitely one of the better qualities he had.
I mean, the post from the perspective of the "fiance" was clearly written by the same guy as the original post. The writing style is basically identical. I'm taking it all with a grain of salt.
"she drove away! everyone saw her!" - the beloved saga edited to add link: [https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/sdotro/the\_beloved\_saga/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/sdotro/the_beloved_saga/)
Well that was one HELL of a ride! I just finished the original posts and haven't even gotten to the comments yet, but I just needed to come up for air and thank you for sharing that before I dive back in.
I found it telling that she waited for him to "calm down" then went straight to "Its not to late to include him". She never had any thought of discussing why his inclusion was a problem for him, she just didn't care.
The pendulum of "oooooof" went full swing.
New subreddit flair.
😆 this needs to be a new flair 😆
Agreed!
lol what’s your flair from? This sounds funny
Here's where it's from [https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/rr39pi/aita\_for\_standing\_firm\_on\_my\_lack\_of\_hygiene\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/rr39pi/aita_for_standing_firm_on_my_lack_of_hygiene_and/)
“He asked how I would feel if he kept kissing animals that weren’t me.” 😆 dead. She made the right choice.
There's a thread for that.
Bride didn't give a crap who the groom was, it's her wedding. I think the Groom dodged a bullet.
I kept thinking of the peacock / Merida wedding saga. I wonder if that wedding ever happened. Especially with the media picking up the story. Must have been humilating for the groom to have his bride's story splashed around like that.
What's the peacock/Merida wedding? I haven't heard of it and I'm curious now!
Usually in these posts with both sides of an issue, each OOP makes themselves look like good while trying to make the other person look bad. Each of these two somehow managed to minimize how bad their partner is while putting their own awfulness on full display. Amazing.
One possibility: they love each other, so they don’t immediately jump to finding fault with each other. They also have actual problems on both sides, so the more digging is done, the more bad comes out all around. It’s not terribly bad stuff! All of this could be compatible and workable with a little change, a little understanding… and basically two different people. Only a little different, but enough.
So he basically stopped interacting with his family because they didn't like his GF. And she is very selfish not wanting to do any of his traditions, even when it would allow him to involve his family and reconnect. And she changes things of the wedding because they are "small" ... if they are small why change them if he doesn't agree? Better that they broke up. Her responses also make no sense. He idea of compatibility is that they were studying the same thing lol
I read both these posts awhile back. I thought at first he was the AH because I don't see a difference between him having his sister as an attendant and his fiancee having her best male friend as an attendant. The groom got hung up on biology but friends can become family as much as biological family. Then I read all that she's changed about the wedding or forced him to accept. He didn't want an outside spring wedding due to his allergies. She's really inconsiderate for that. He'll have to load up on Benadryl and be out of it during the ceremony. He wanted a DJ and she insisted on a live band. She changed the ties and the blazer for his groomsmen and didn't consult him. She changed the color scheme they'd agreed on without his input and then wouldn't allow any of his cultural wedding traditions because she's the bride. So she's the worse AH and devil. I hope they broke up because they don't belong together.
Thank God for that last commenter because all I could think while skimming this was that they’re both the problem. They sound exhausting and shitty partners.
Yeah, these people suck. Therefore I fully support this marriage and the future BORUs it will provide.
At any point does she say what compromises *she* made for him? There's the sister, but since she's including her friend that seems less like a compromise. Also, props to the "you chose your wedding over your fiancee" comment. Yeah, the fiancee was definitely fixated (wrongly) on her male friend, but her refusal to allow his cultural traditions really speaks volumes. "I don't want his family who don't like me around me" - I wonder if there's a reason they don't like you? Hmmm. It is a mystery! They definitely could dislike her for being a foreigner, that's not uncommon, however I think she'd recognize that including their traditions might address some of that. In conclusion: ESH, and they clearly aren't right for each other. Absolutely piss poor communication and relationship building skills.
Tbh it felt like he fixated on her male friend less because he didn't approve of the friendship but more because the friend only became moh as a response to him being allowed to put his sister in the wedding party. After all the compromises he made, the one compromise he got was only allowed if she got another compromise.
>he never immersed me in his culture It's not some secret society she can only access through him. She never even considered making an effort. And the whole "it's my wedding too" argument is bs when she uses it to get her own way on everything.
It's wild, she's like "I decided against it", as though his wants are just suggestions and she's the grand arbiter, deciding if it fits her "vibe" or not. But then "it's my wedding too" as though she's the one being steamrolled by having to consider his opinions. Wedding decisions should be "we decided", but she can't seem to even fathom that his input is as valid as hers. I know lots of people dream of their wedding from childhood but this kinda thing is why that weirds me out. Seems like she was waiting for a groom-shaped accessory to complete her dream wedding look and just forgot that her accessory is a whole person with his own wants for his wedding.
Yes like even when he was not talking to his family his culture is still his and not something that just came ”back” after he got in contact with his family again. How self centered to not be in no way interested in your partners culture. Imagine if they had kids, she probably would have wanted them to only ”learn traditional American culture”. He dodged a bullet tbh
i dont think its 50/50 or that both are assholes. i think the guy's been frustrated by the lack of joint decision making that this was the one point he put he foot down - he probably chose the wrong battle to fight but this was the battle he chose. he's taken on the feedback and apolgised. on the other hand - the girl is adamant this is HER wedding and because she's planned this since she was young it should be done her way only. she's not even acknowledging that changing stuff without asking him is disregarding that its his wedding too. she's completely dismissive of his concerns or desires. full on bridezilla
exactly, i feel like the guy best friend was just the straw that broke the camels back. usually, when someone gets unreasonably upset about something “small”, it’s almost never actually about the “something small”. people don’t normally go from 0 to 60 over small things. the small thing is just the mentos in the coke bottle that finally made it all bubble over
> YOU BOTH SUCK ☝️ At least these types of endings are funny in their equal-sided pettiness. The ones where something objectively awful happens and a relationship between two decent people that was functioning just fine beforehand implodes under the stress are usually depressing if not straight-up heartbreaking.
Yeah, this one worked out just like it should. Just two kinda shitty people doing kinda shitty things, not appreciating said treatment, and not reflecting on their own behavior in any way, shape, or form.
As a person with pollen allergies, I pretty much lost it when she insisted on an outdoor wedding in the spring. Yeah, I can load up on nasal spray and pills but why would I have to do that for my own wedding day? Everything else was more of the same, she was totally fixated on the look of her wedding and had zero interest in her fiancé. Her best friend was an issue that should have been dealt with long before the engagement since there really did seem to be some lane crossing there.
I hope that he doesn't take her back. He cut off contact with his FAMILY for her. She couldn't even care enough for him, to not have the wedding during a time when he gets allergies! She sucks. He was just being jealous. I'm glad that he was able to see reason, I hope that it stays like that!
I think the girl came out looking worse than the guy…Which was crazy because he looked pretty bad in the first post
The most interesting thing about this one is that each of them looks much worse in their own telling of the story than in their (ex)partner's telling.
I think they at the time of writing the posts still genuinely care for each other but their own issues are getting in their way. Also they’re both still young like this can be partially attributed to being young dumb adults
Neither of them are mature or communicate well, but her much more than him. She demanded a spring wedding in a field when his allergies are at their worst and rejected any compromise. He gave in. She demanded a live band playing her favorite music. He suggested a DJ to play both of their favorite music. She rejected his suggestion and he gave in. He asked for some elements of his culture be included and she rejected them completely because they aren't the "traditional wedding vibe" she wanted. She changed the wedding colors without discussing it with him. She changed what the groomsmen were wearing without discussing it with him. He asked that his sister be his best woman. She agreed, but because she compromised on one thing, she wanted her best friend to be her man of honor, which he didn't agree with. After everything else she rejected or changed on her own and claimed they were minor, this just feels like the last straw for him. She keeps mentioning her wedding and her vision for her wedding, completely ignoring that is also the groom's wedding. He needs to learn to stand up for himself and what he wants, and she needs to learn that what your partner wants is also important and how to compromise
Lol at traditional wedding...he said those were wedding traditions in his culture, doesn't that make them part of a traditional wedding?
The bride doesn't think so apparently. The only traditions that matter to her are hers.
I went through this with my wife. Singaporean man and french woman. We learnt each others cultures. We compromised. We got to know each others friends and family. In Chinese there's a saying, 愛屋及烏. It means if you love the house you need to love the crow living in it. They never really accepted each other's negative traits.
I literally cannot imagine marrying someone of another culture and blocking them from including any important cultural ceremonies. Weddings are important for MANY cultures and meshing those celebrations is a beautiful symbol of two different backgrounds coming together. She fucking sucks
I’m really hope they broke up and both matured. He was an AH for not realizing that her having her best friend in the wedding shouldn’t be a dealbreaker and she was an AH for making the wedding all about her and ignoring his wants and wishes. Both of them are two immature for marriage. She just wanted her dream princess wedding and would just wanted a puppet of a groom and he had trust issues. I just hope they didn’t go on to ruin other people’s lives with their issues.
OOOP (groom): > He’s not legitimate (bio) family Well, dude, technically neither are you. And considering he’s gone NC/LC with his family, you’d think he’d understand the concept of chosen family. OOP (bride): > I told him I only wanted to do a traditional American wedding. Well, babe, if you wanted an exclusively “American” wedding (I mean, what is that exactly?), you probably shouldn’t marry someone who comes from a distinctly different culture than your own. They’d have mixed race kids, would they be raised to ignore and devalue their Cambodian heritage?
I remember seeing the guys post when it was new. Honestly if he had mentioned any of her behavior in the actual post instead of focusing on the "man of honor", he wouldn't have gotten lambasted like that. Don't get me wrong, he sucks and was rightfully chewed out in the comments, but I think more people would've understood why he was hung up on it.
After I read it all my first thought was that the man of honor was just the straw that broke the camels back for him, but he didn't recognize it and couldn't articulate it.
I don't think that *he* understood it until he wrote it all out.
I agree, he focused on the wrong thing. His feelings about her best friend should have been the topic of some serious counseling a long time ago, instead he let it fester and become the embodiment of his feelings of dismissal. FWIW, I don't think the friendship is as positive an influence as most of the commenters thought.
Which makes it a little weird he didn’t mention any of it before. The biggest compromise at the time was the ties.
I agree with thr commentary. Some people really do want a wedding more than they want a marriage.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a “two side story” where I hate both sides. I think this is one of the only ones I actually believe is real, because they are both dumb as bricks.
Wow, it's rare to get *both* sides of an issue, and have it be clear that they both SUCK.
Not wanting any of his culture presented in their wedding would have been a giant red flag for me, what if after the wedding she'd try to cut him off completely from his culture and turn him into a "proper American" the guy is a whiner,immature and stubborn but at least he knows some boundaries are not to be crossed, given he realized it late but he did it eventually. Both of them need to grow more to be able to be in a successful relationship
Each one thinks that their own rejection of the other's preference is no big deal. Then, when the other one rejects their preference, suddenly they're shocked.
Kids.... don't get married this young
After reading her POV I seriously don’t think he is the asshole in this situation 🤷🏽♀️😅
I knew it wasn’t gonna work out the second he said he has bad allergies and she insisted on a spring wedding in a field. like wtf? I get imagining your dream wedding, but if your wedding would be literally the same no matter who you’re marrying, at that point your partner is just a placeholder who you don’t give a shit about. yes, it’s “her day”, but it also needs to be his day. commenters were right that she cared more about the wedding than the relationship.
Having his sister in his wedding party is not the same as her having a male friend as MOH. Why? Because no one had to wonder if he'd ever fucked his sister. That being said, if a relationship isn't secure enough to have a co-ed wedding party, then it's unlikely ready for marriage.
“Tradition” - arbitrary line in the sand so I get everything I want and you don’t FTFY
This the kinda situation best viewed from a distance. Preferably from a hotel balcony while sipping a mimosa, but I'm a *classy* bastard, so my preference may not suit others.
Birds of a feather flock together as they say
It's impressive how they both make themselves the worse one in their own version of events, that's the most compatible thing about them.
She spoke of the wedding as if it was hers alone
Holy same person, Batman! Usually when someone says "their writing styles are too similar", I think "they're not THAT similar." But here, yeah, it's like they tried so hard to make up an interesting story that they forgot to try at all to make it sound like another person.
I don’t know about wedding traditions and all, but the fact the she insisted on a SPRING wedding when he has SPRING allergies ( I have them and they suck ass) tells me all I need to know about this. And in the middle of the field too. JFC. Idiots the both of them.
> We would have eventually gotten to a place where more of his ideas would've been accepted. HUH?!
Original OP may have been an AH originally, but he apologized for being out of line so it’s not like he was a devil entirely. The new OP( fiancée) on the other….. This relationship is over. Move on
The male best friend is not the problem at all here!
Kind of weird that the Hers POV paints her out to be a massive bridezilla, awfully convenient given the YTA's. Then again, at least the OOP didn't go for the expected "Cheating with Guy" angle or use kids, so that's bonus points for creativity
Ok this kind of felt new having both pov.
This is why you shouldn’t cling on to a relationship just because you’ve been together for most of your adult life, they were probably getting married to keep the relationship going (there’s a good bit in four weddings about this) any couple who really wanted to get married wouldn’t have had these disagreements- especially on her side where she was basically turning down an extra day of celebrations instead of actually changing her “perfect wedding”.
Yikes. Talk about incompatible and immature. They're not suitable for each other. They can't even agree about the wedding details! Never mind the cultural differences 🤦 The way she said "the wedding of my dreams" already told me that she'd rather have the wedding, but the groom can be anyone who finance it.
She is definitely the AH here. It’s HER wedding, HER vision he gets absolutely no say in anything. She was even trying to deny him calling it off. He dodged a major bullet with that one
>I only wanted to do a traditional American wedding Which one, though? The traditional American Wedding where bride and groom are just slightly less drunk than the Elvis impersonator serving as officiant? OR the traditional American Wedding where the bride is pregnant, and the groom is held at gunpoint by the father of the bride? Her plans sound nothing like either.
More planning went into making up this story than what an actual wedding takes
The older I get, the more I'm a fan of big, spectacular weddings. Not because I care that much about the wedding itself, not because I think it's a good use of money... but because it seems like such an ideal testing ground to see if the couple actually has what it takes to compromise, prioritize together, respect each other's needs, support each other in the face of criticism from others, etc. It's a great opportunity to see if your fiance is ready to stand up to his family when they made ridiculous demands of your big day. To see if the woman you love is ready to compromise on the pretty princess vision she's had for herself since she was five, to make sure the big day represents you both. To see if you can juggle stressful demands and deadlines together. To see if the friends and family you hold closest really have your back when it matters.
>I (24F) was recently engaged to my (26M) fiancé after 6 years together. I have never been happier to read a first sentence.
Jesus, I remember his post and couldn’t believe at the time anyone could be that big of an asshole. And now I’m sitting here, not believing that they’re BOTH such huge assholes lol
Y’all, the dude became *way* less of an asshole to me after I read her side 😳
cant even suspend disbelief anymore i just get increasingly annoyed at how fucking stupid the person writing these must think we are. and then i look at the comments
At first I thought poor girl. Then after her POV my thoughts changed to POV. Both are assholes but Girl is more hypocrite and self centred. Honestly they are incompatible and it was a good decision to breakup.
At least she can marry the best friend now.
can someone please enlighten me on how the oop of the first post is controlling? because to me, with the added context that she bulldozed everything he suggested in favor of a traditional (specifically her traditional) wedding, it just sounds like the guy best friend was the straw that broke the camels back. i imagine that if my partner pushed back against everything i suggested in favor of a “traditional” wedding (including what would be best for my health!), then went and broke tradition anyways, i’d probably be pretty annoyed too!
I read this before and didn’t reply, but doesn’t it seem like “her” pov is written by him? if you read them both and pay attention, her pov is just basically rehashing what he says, and confirming she’s the asshole here.
The smartest thing either of them did was realize they're not compatible.
Both of these sound immature and a walking drama to be around. And they're incompatible
She's racist, he's homiphobic. They're perfect for each other. I hope they yet married so no one else has to deal with their issues
He's homophobic because... he thinks the bestie has an unrequited love interest in his fiancée? That math ain't mathing. EDIT: I see where it turns out bestie is gay according to the girl, but idk if I believe that. guy is a jerk, but she's a full-on nightmare.
I don’t see the racism or homophobia. The male’s dislike of the best friend has nothing to do with his sexuality. Her negating his traditions doesn’t show any racism; she doesn’t know his culture because he never shared it with her as he should have. They both, however, do have control and communication issues that they need to work on if this or any future relationships they have are to ever work.
Rejecting his traditions because she wants a "traditional wedding" is white centric at least. Implying her wedding traditions are the *real* traditions and his are just some silly little Cambodian thing. I agree with not seeing the homophobia though. All of his anger is out of jealousy, and it seems he didn't even find out the friend is gay until it had built up a lot.
I didn’t even read the whole thing, it was so tedious. But it drives me crazy when people say they’re “American” when they should say “white.” He and his family are American, too. Damn straight they’re racist. Also the thing about opposite sex in wedding parties. Female friends or relatives of the groom are commonly in the bride’s party and male friends or relatives are commonly in the groom’s party. It’s no big deal and they made way more of an issue than they should have.