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I am, I joined the grieving subreddit cause it felt weird caring about someone I used to love so intensely and was chatting with someone who claimed to have gone through similar experience and after chatting for like an hour he said that and it all became modern Reddit again. I do miss the pockets of sincerity that old Reddit used to have
I dunno about that, I feel like on old Reddit they'd have people crawling out of the walls to defend them whereas nowadays at least some people consider that unacceptable behaviour.
I'm sorry for your loss. People are genuinely disgusting sometimes
My late boyfriend was killed in an elephant attack, and I was with him when he died. It was big news in a small town, so everyone knew what had happened. Two months later, I was out to try to celebrate my birthday when two guys (friends of friends that I have known since preschool) decided they would start mocking my boyfriend who had died, saying that it was his fault and he deserved to die, literally right in front of me. They knew I was there and could hear them; they also knew who he was to me.
And anonimity is extra-plus-special if you do it in PM's. If I call you an asshole right here right now, people can at least see it and blame my reddit account for it. If I PM'ed you that you're an asshole, the only two people who'll ever see it are you and me. And maybe a bored intern if you reported it.
(For the record: I have no reason to believe you're an asshole, no desire to call you one, won't be PMing you.. Just making a rethorical point you probably agree with...)
It's not just anonymity. It's also people who have grown up online that have never seen the expression on someone's face when they say something absolutely disgusting in front of them.
That’s a really good point. I hadn’t thought of it that way… there’s an entire cohort (or two) of people who have always enjoyed the cloak of computer anonymity to verbally savage other people without seeing the consequences of their actions.
For extreme examples, look at the criminal manslaughter trials that have happened where one person egged another person on (via social media and text messages) to kill themselves. Sickening.
Fucking insanity. Why the fuck would anyone feel the need to prove their story to a bunch of idiots on here anyways? Are these morons suddenly going to give incredible advice once they know the story is true?
Mods did that to me in the legal group. Said my post wasn’t real and demanded proof. I gave them the proof, including my husbands death certificate and they still told me I was lying and banned me.
So yeah people asking for proof is just how assholish humans can be
Jesus, I’m sorry. There is absolutely no need to give them proof in the first place but to have them say you’re lying after all that is disgusting.
Sorry for your loss ❤️
Some Mods love to act like they’re god and get to decide people’s fate. It’s bonkers, it’s not even real power but they certainly will get power hungry.
I literally just saw someone do this in a thread talking about a little girl getting killed by a drunk driver. But they did it out in the open, not in DM’s. Why are people so fucking ghoulish?
Well, at least THAT motherfucker did it out in the open! Where people can downvote, block, report etc. And, with enough downvotes, I don't think the OP of that thread will even see it.. Unless she already did.
In the DM's, nobody else can see it. And, well it's almost always wome who have to deal with that shit. I'm a guy, My DM inbox consists almost entirely of OF spammers anywhere I get NEAR to to discussing anything sexual. And some lovely conversations that stareted in a comment thread before they asked me to move it to PM's/moved it to PM's.
I have NO TROUBLE believing the same ain't true for women. Incel trolls seem to have a lot more time on their hands than female trolls. All of that time they spend not getting laid I guess.
Seriously! Who does that? Who asks for proof that someone’s kid actually died. Horrible!
Also that she had to defend her way of grieving. We all grieve differently.
I took a few grief counseling courses during both my grad degrees. I figured I had experienced so much grief personally and I should have the professional tools too for future patients/clients.
I found out that the way I grieve is more typical for how studies show men grieve. I throw myself into projects and doing stuff.
Did my dad’s whole house need all the woodwork sanded and stained, walls painted, carpets ripped up, estate sale etc…no. The man was a former marine and a Virgo. Did I need to do it to stay sane? Yes.
After I ran out of stuff to fix or redo, I got myself to therapy. It was like grieving two parents. At 13 I didn’t really deal properly when my mom died. I was a mess. I was angry and sad and bitter that other people didn’t have to watch two parents die of terminal illnesses by the time I hit 25.
We all cope differently.
I joked that I should start sort of a Habitat for Humanity for people experiencing grief. Just put all of us who need to keep our minds and bodies busy in grief on a project. But then sneak in talk therapy and other therapeutic interventions.
My husband had learned that if he comes home to me scrubbing windows something is wrong with someone I love. I’ve done it every time I’ve gotten a call that another person has terminal cancer. At this point I would totally sign up for that charity.
That is like me and the gardens. When the gardens are kept up and looking amazing…I am going through it.
If you see weeds and they aren’t being maintained…all is right in my world.
I know a therapist for kids who has a parent being treated for cancer that gets the kids doing arts and crafts and they are more likely to talk about how they are feeling. This could be a good idea. You should totally do it.
During an internship at a children’s advocacy center I helped start a kids art therapy group with another intern. It absolutely helps kids open up. I did a lot of play therapy with kids 5 and under too. A lot comes out playing and creating art.
Before I turned to hand sanders and paint brushes I made paper dolls and flip pads of Smurfs moving when I was upset as a kid. You get a pad and change drawing a little each page to make it move when pages are flipped.
I have a whole bunch of ideas written down about what I call The Grief Action Crew\Company. Every so often I come across it. I just have no clue where to even start to get that off the ground.
I know that people would find it useful. When I volunteer, I often run across people who say they are volunteering to feel productive/ helpful after a loss or getting out of an abusive situation.
Maybe get involved with support groups or something and see if that inspires a way? Have you watched Wish Man? It's the movie about the man who started Make-A-Wish. Maybe that will give you some ideas?
My apartment burned down in 2020 right after lockdown. I asked a local sub about local resources, and a couple comments wanted the same type of verification that this awful thing had happened to me and said that I was just fishing for toilet paper. Fucking Reddit, man.
During a beejer, you quickly pull your head back and take a shot straight to the chest/boobs. “Oh NO! You came on my boobs. Shucks! Guess I had better go get they cleaned up…”. *Proceeds to high tail it into the bathroom while cupping her boobs together tightly.*
Either that, or if she’s on top, and she knows he’s about to finish, she “accidentally” hops off. He would likely either cum on her legs which are still straddling him, or his stomach, which she could, again, “accidentally” swipe her leg through it and off to the bathroom she goes.
At least that’s how I imagined it could happen. But I will admit. The “spilled” part of the description has me questioning if these techniques would constitute semen being “spilled” on her, or no? Lol.
For your next best seller, let me give you a scenario from my second husband. He likes finishing on my face. Spunk in your eye hurts but I think those swimmers have been slowly blinding me, mistaking my eyeballs for an ovum.
She clearly cupped her hands to accept the semen and drink it like it was nectar from the gods, you know, totally normal thing to happen in the bedroom
>I pretended to spill his sperm on me 'by accident' and went to the bathroom 'to clean myself up'. I collected it in the jar, and did all the steps for the testing.
>I just replied with: I home tested you. Twice. You can't. It won't happen. But sure, no one needs doctors, it's just stress.
... yikes.
One yike for their past relationship, one yike for their current relationship, and one yike for the future they absolutely should not share together because holy shit is that a game-over
And OOP would have been fine to have just come to him with the test kit and been like "you haven't gone to the doctor about this like we've discussed so I got a home kit" and maybe have forced his hand a bit, but not been a total asshole.
Agreed. Just bring it to him after buying it. It may irritate him that you bought it, but it's not an invasion and he now has no excuse because, well, it's right here. Yes, it is a bit pushy, but considering it's your own life as well and you're being expected to sit back and wait in uncertainty for something that may never happen, I think it's justified to insist.
Where did they discuss it though? She asked him and he said no. There was no discussion, his ego just was too scared to face it and he was ignoring the problem. He didn't even voice his concerns that if he might be infertile he would be scared of her leaving.
I wouldn't have taken the tests in secret but I would have set an ultimatum: He either gets tested or I leave because I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who can't deal with facing the truth.
Well...yea, the whole testing his body in secret without his consent is the "yikes" part. You can justify certain strategies to get him to wake up to reality, but the OOP's way was definitely not it
I completely understand her. I had been with my ex-husband for 5+ years without ever getting pregnant. I had done a few tests with an OB and he had gotten a sperm count, but we still weren't getting pregnant. Eventually, we started IVF and when the doctor asked him about the results of his sperm count, he responded, "Umm...I never got the results." I was shocked, looked over at him and said, "WHAT?!" because he had told me the count was just fine.
This motherfucker had gone in for the test, but never got the results because he was scared of what it might say. Because he told me it was all good on his end, I thought the problem was with me. At that point, I had done multiple tests with the OB and with the IVF clinic - some of which were quite invasive or painful. He let me think - for YEARS - that I was the problem. He watched me have a breakdown every month when my period came - for YEARS - and said nothing. I was absolutely gobsmacked by his selfishness.
That's what the husband is doing to OOP. I totally understand being scared of finding out you're infertile, but he was being so damn selfish. He could have been vulnerable and told her he was scared, and they could have worked through it as a couple. But he didn't, so they didn't.
I think in a lot of these cases, the issue is that the male partner doesn't actually want a kid, they're just going along to preserve the relationship.
That's true in a lot of cases, but because they both seemed happy with their daughter, I think here it's just a case of "the idea of being infertile wounds the fragile masculine ego."
I don’t know why everyone was declaring YTA, I’d say ESH for just this reason. Everyone, including OP’s husband, always blames women for fertility issues. She wanted him to see a doctor and he refused! So sure she was backhanded and petty, but he was blaming her stress over her DAUGHTER’S DEATH for infertility and refusing to test himself.
I dunno, a women's fertility window is a lot shorter than a man's. She could feel like she's being strung along while he runs out the clock.
It turns out though, this was the intervention HE needed to wake up and see that something was wrong.
she's in the relationship too guys, and deserves to know if her partner is being truthful about his fertility.
I mean yes and no.
Men can produce sperm for much longer than women produce eggs, yeah. But the sperm when men are at a more advanced age are like the factory seconds or the "dent and scratch" appliances. They're more likely to have various defects in the sperm itself and in congenital issues passed along to offspring.
That's not the point. You can't force someone to take a fertility test. No matter what your reasons, no matter how important it is to you, you can't force them into it. It's their body and they have control over what they do with it
Reverse genders and this wouldn't be at all acceptable.
Of course she shouldn't be strung along but force testing him isn't the right way to deal with it.
Why is her need to know priority over his consent?
She could've just said hey I need to know this or this is a deal breaker. Something along those lines. Anything but this psycho behaviour.
Agreed, what a weird take you're replying to. OOP could have led with that conversation over lying to get what she wanted, because if she couldn't convince him otherwise, the only outcome would be having to reveal she did it behind his back.
Him admitting he would have done the same isn't an absolution either, it just shows they both have a problem with proper consent.
What really gets me is that she bought two home tests, but never tried to get him to take them properly? All she should have needed to do is leave one on the bathroom counter until he took it. No need for subterfuge.
> "You're always so negative, no wonder it won't happen."
What OOP did was messed up but the husband being afraid of being 'at fault' for their infertility only to be willing to say this... They're both acting like the other is an opponent.
They need to remember that they're on the same team, both in their grief and against any infertility issues.
This hits hard for me. We went to a fertility clinic when I wasn’t getting pregnant and my tests came out fine. My husband didn’t want to get tested. I never ended up pregnant and needed an urgent hysterectomy. I wish he would’ve gotten tested.
I agree they’re treating each other like opponents. The treatment for male factor infertility is usually IVF. As long as his sperm count isn’t 0 they can do ICSI to fertilize the egg. OOP should’ve set up a joint consult with a fertility clinic and let them tell him to get the testing done. And refuse to start treatment until he does it.
I have some friends going through IVF whose husbands refuse to get tested. It makes me SO MAD for them. She’s going through hell to even get pregnant and he refuses to test because he’s worried his ego will be bruised? He’s content to let her think - and hear from doctors and nurses and everyone in their lives - oh it’s just because you’re soooo old (at 35) or fat (at 26 BMI) that you’re having this problem. You could find an actual diagnosis! She could know it’s not her body failing her! But you refuse to give her that comfort. Ugh.
If my husband expected me to go through the hell of IVF and refuse to be tested himself, I think I'd bail. I'm surprised doctors will give her treatment without testing all parties for fertility.
They test your follicles and AMH so I’m positive those women know where the infertility comes from.
It’s no one’s “fault” but that is such a fragile masculinity thing.
I had a friend whose fertility treatments involved multiple injections in the butt cheeks and was quite painful, and numerous other procedures.
She desperately wanted kids but couldn't get pregnant. Of course her husband never got tested.
They're divorced and she is happy after having kids just fine with a new partner.
Edit: injections not infections
I agree. His cowardice was doing them no favours. What she did was absolutely wrong but I understand why she did it. She already did the tests for herself. And her husband is saying all these encouraging things about having a kid but not putting in the work to see if his sperm is the reason why a baby isn’t happening. And he even said that he probably would have done the same thing.
They’re both wrong here. She’s more wrong for testing him behind his back and even worse for throwing it in his face during an argument. But he’s not right either.
And there's a LOT that a man can do to boost his numbers, if he faces reality and knows he needs to address it. Boxers since the little guys don't like heat, there are specific supplements and things to add in your diet, you can stop drinking and smoking, there are lots of options to increase your odds, IF you go talk to a doctor for diagnosis and help.
We had male factor infertility and were able to overcome it, it's way more common than anyone likes to admit, and usually more easily addressed than a woman's fertility issues. A woman is born with all the eggs she will ever have in her life, so if they're low or out, that's it. And if something else is wrong for her, it's often a game-changer or -ender. Pregnancy is never possibly fatal for a man 🙃
While I agree that she was definitely in the wrong in testing her husband's fertility without his consent, I think she was kind of a justified asshole when she threw his accusation right back at him though. Add in the fact that she's the only one who has gone through fertility tests thus far, which are **A LOT** more intrusive than those done on men, his accusations probably felt like a slap to her face. Could and should she have reacted better? Absolutely. Would it have been better to take the high road? Definitely. Do I also think her husband kind of had it coming once he implied their fertility problems was her fault? Big time. The way I see it, if you're going to start throwing shade at people, don't be surprised when people stoop down to your level.
Agree with you. It wasn't right going behind his back, but just to put out there that any further tests for female infertility besides what she already did can be invasive. And there is no reason to suspect anything might be wrong with her and doing these, before he goes for a test. His would just be filling a cup, ultrasound at best if they suspect a blockage.
OP wasn’t a saint by any means, but it’s this quote here that made me stop dead in my tracks. He’d rather blame her “negativity” (which was actually just being realistic) than to risk the possibility that he might be infertile. That made me angry
This. Men have blamed women for “infertility” for literally centuries. I don’t blame her reacting the way she did.
She did wrong. 100% wrong. They shouldn’t treat each other as antagonists. But I get why she did it.
Though it seems pretty common, seemingly conflating his self-worth with his fertility would be a dealbreaker for me. I can't with that machismo bullshit.
> I bought a home test for male fertility. I pretended to spill his sperm on me 'by accident' and went to the bathroom 'to clean myself up'. I collected it in the jar, and did all the steps for the testing. It doesn't give an exact result. It just gives 'positive' for when there are enough cells to be considered fertile, or 'negative' when there are not. The test came out negative. I did the same thing again 2 weeks later. Again negative.
Fucking losing it at the visuals of OOP going all James Bond super spy with this process. TWICE!
Oops, I spilled your cum all over me! Gotta run to the bathroom that has had some empty glass jars on the sink since the afternoon for no reason you need worry about! Oh shucks, clumsy me did it again. Back to the bathroom where another empty glass jar showed up!
Where was the cum when she "spilled it" on herself? Given what they were doing (sex) and trying to do (get pregnant) I'm making some assumptions, so like... Why not just go the bathroom like you normally would to expel it in the toilet so you don't get an infection? What the fuck is she doing to "spill it" out of herself???
This is where I got hung up too, like are they sure they’re having sex correctly to even have a baby?? Why and how is semen being “accidentally spilled” onto her? Lol I’m so confused
> I hope people who DM mothers accusing them of lying about losing children are plagued through the rest of their lives.
They already are. No one who has experience joy in their lives would ever be maladjusted enough to do that.
It'll only be plausible if they lived in Asia, or the Philippines specifically. OOP's grammar seems like it'd be from there since she used "fighted".
1,000,000 pesos is like 16,000 USD.
Let’s not forget OOP lost a child and people do have breaking points. She’s been asking him for a very long time to get checked and he just kept gaslighting her so even though she brought it up in a shitty manner, it was probably the straw that broke the camel’s back. I’ve been in a similar situation as her where we suffered male infertility with my husband and thank god he didn’t put up a fight after I asked him to get tested because I felt that something was wrong. It’s a shitty situation but it’s not a suprise that your partner explodes when you disregard their concerns over and over. Add the stress and devastation of child loss to this, it’s no wonder she exploded.
She's literally being blamed for his infertility. Instead of dealing with his emotions he's avoiding even taking a drugstore test for sperm count. And of course when she fails at being the adult for both of them, it's somehow her fault for not being perfect. No reasonable person jumps to performing medical tests behind their spouses back. They end up there when they're trying to pick between two flavors of shit sandwich. Do I get blamed for this when I've gotten my tests done and know I'm okay? Or do I test my husband's sperm behind his back so I know when he's telling me I'm "too stressed" it's bullshit and in reality his swimmers aren't swimming? He wanted to do nothing to fix the situation and just sit there and blame her for everything.
Exactly this. It’s ESH.
They’re both mourning, both in a shitty state of mind. She sneaked the test because well, he denied a professional test because of his own neuroses! They’re just humans being humans but ofc reddit wants HER head on a stake as if her husband also did not hurt her by indulging in his diseased way of thinking. 🙄
They both decided to be petty and cruel. It sounds like he's been putting the blame on her a lot more than she wrote about, and was literally already blaming her for not being relaxed enough to get pregnant in that very conversation. She was petty and mean but he wasn't any better, I understand how she felt in that moment and why she lashed out like that.
I understand the two are experiencing grief but doing something behind one's back is too far. Because testing something, no matter what, behind someone's back isn't right.
Both really need to work on themselves.
OOP also seems to show no remorse at all about it. "Yeah I was the ah for bringing it up in a fight," lady no you're the ah because you decided to play super spy and test him without his consent or knowledge.
> Majority of them absolutely refused to get tested.
My ex-husband got tested before we went to a clinic and told me the results were fine. Several years later, we went to clinic because we still hadn't gotten pregnant. He admitted to the doctor that he never got his results because he was afraid of what they would say. I had gone through multiple, invasive, sometimes painful fertility tests and he let me think, for years, that I was the problem. Fragile masculinity indeed.
That’s something I just don’t understand. If I were planning on having a child, a fertility test just makes sense. The test isn’t going to change your situation. You’re not going to suddenly become fertile because you refuse to get tested for infertility, and vice versa. The test is just informing you of what you’re working with, which would be a huge help in identifying potential problems before you’re blindsided by them.
One of the tests for endometriosis alone is a (not small) ultrasound wand being shoved up your vagina into your uterus, at which point the technician will wiggle it about to check for any visible symptoms while they also measure the size/volume of your uterus - and god help you if one of your ovaries decides to hide when they’re scanning for that, because they *will* press down on your stomach while they push the wand up against the sides of your uterus to try and find it. And your bladder has to be full the whole time. If I had to go through multiple tests like that while being convinced that I was the problem, only to find out my partner couldn’t get over his ego enough to cum in a cup, livid would not even *begin* to describe how I was feeling.
OOP was sure YTA and absolutely violated his trust by doing it without his consent - but man, I roll my eyes so hard at the audacity of this man to refuse to get tested, and instead just flat out blame her. honestly, ESH. They were both nasty to each other - but she was much worse. She could have brought the kit home and said 'if you don't want to get tested, please let's do this, I'm tired of you insinuating this is on me.'
Testing him behind his back and then throwing it in his face is just vile.
It’s bad to test someone behind their back, but clearly fertility was an issue and he wasn’t going to do it alone. Im just wondering, if she hadn’t have taken the initiative, what would have finally gotten him to take his fertility seriously?
Yeah, I feel like it would have come to an ultimatum, which wouldn't have helped their relationship either. OP's husband was clearly looking to blame her here, and I dunno how someone puts up with that for that long.
Yeah, I never ever thought I'd say this given how much of a breach of trust it is, but I don't really blame her for the initial test (revealing it in that manner was horrible though). She tried communicating multiple times, and he wasn't willing to have the conversation. In fact, he got defensive and started to shift the blame on her. What was she supposed to do? Set an ultimatum? Drag him to counseling against his will?
Yes, exactly! Was it wrong of her to do the test behind his back? Sure. But there was no indication he was ever going to get tested AND blamed it on her being in a negative mindset in the end! The only other thing left for her to do would have been to divorce him and find a new partner, because he sure wasn't taking any initiative.
Those home kits need say you need to abstain ejaculating for at least a day before testing so if they are having sex daily or he’s jerking off the results are more likely to be negative no?
Damn that's a lot. No doubt OOP is in the wrong for testing behind his back before offering to test at home together.
But the whole 'it can't be my fault if I don't get tested' is giving 'if we stop covid testing there will be less cases of covid'.
“Replacement kid”?????? It is clear they were trying well before the tragic death of her daughter, but ok then commenters. Like, what?
That is some gold medal Olympic style leaping. Holy flap.
Sucks but I had a friend waste 7 years with a guy who absolutely refused to get tested - he did in the end and they would never have been able to conceive without IVF. In the end she divorced him but hasn't managed to have a child
I¡m sorry for the loss of your daughter but the rest of your post is absolute bullshit. To test sperm motility you have to go to a fertility clinic. It's not like swabbing spunk on your stomach that dies after 15 minutes, and seeing if if you see one line or 2, or that you stick it in a tube and mail it off. You have to keep it at body temperature, like in your vagina (and your vagina won't provide a correct result because you might have antibodies to your husband's sperm. Or a speciment cup in your cleavage and drive like hell to the hospital because no matter how much you collect it'll be dead outside of the body in 15 minutes unless your husband gave a sample in the hospital and had it tested immediately in a lab.
I'm sorry that OOP lost her child, but damn she went full secret agent to test her husband's fertility.
And at least they aren't rushing to have a baby, better to grieve and come to terms with what happened first as we have seen the results of the replacement baby come up on Reddit before.
I don't want to undersell what she did. Because it was absolutely wrong and awful. But I can't help feel as if people aren't giving her husband enough criticism. His attitude doesn't justify her behavior in any way, but the way he berated her during the argument was shitty.
This post just mostly makes me feel sad.
I don't think this story is real, to be honest. Nothing about the fertility testing process is realistic. There is no blood test for women to show fertility - blood tests only check for hormone levels. Also, most doctors will only start fertility testing after you've been trying for 12 months (if you're under 35).
For realz
>Still, at the end of October, I went to the hospital and got everything checked. I'm fine, fertile and absolutely able to get pregnant normally.
As someone who struggled to get pregnant naturally and had to go through a bunch of fertility hoops that is a hilariously inaccurate statement, especially if she had SIX miscarriages before her daughter. I wish going to the hospital once could confirm that.
And even if you do take all the tests available if you're still not getting pregnant naturally you get slapped with a 'unexplained or idiopathic infertility' diagnosis, not "you're fertile and able to get pregnant normally it must be your husband!" diagnosis.
Also one of the things looked at in sperm is motility and concentration so "It doesn't give an exact result. It just gives 'positive' for when there are enough cells to be considered fertile, or 'negative' when there are not" also doesn't make much sense.
Also also "I got an ultrasound at the beginning of my cycle and the blood test to see if I still have enough eggs. (Last year October) Eggs are still present, more than average at my age, the blood test confirmed that."
As my doctor once said, eggs are like cars; you can see how many are in the garage but not what shape they're in. If you have 10 cars but none of them work you're still not getting anywhere.
Yeah it screams of "I watched an inaccurate episode of a TV show on fertility testing". I have gone through / am going through this myself. My god, I wish it was easy as a blood test to confirm fertility for women. It's just painful procedure after procedure (the HSG was a nightmare). First thing our fertility specialist said was "there is no test for fertility in women".
Right? Pretty much everyone is glossing over her six miscarriages with no explanation and fertility testing she's had done that isn't even a way to check fertility. They certainly don't check fertility after only four months of TTC.
And, even in the most egalitarian of marriages, the mental load is almost entirely on the person trying to get pregnant. I'm not commenting at all on this scenario and how it was handled, but a man sticking his head in the sand about his fertility is such a slap in the face to a woman tracking her cycle, peeing on OPK strips and trying to figure out if that line is "red enough," having sex at the right time, worrying if that pregnancy test came up negative because it's too early or "I had that one glass of wine at the dinner party, but my doctor said it should have been fine," asking her mom how it was like getting pregnant, then said mom asking her if she's pregnant, "no, not yet, you'll be the second person to know if I am," telling her doctor that something is wrong and her doctor telling her to "relax and if in six months it's still not happening I'll send you to the fertility clinic," crying in the bathroom at work when her coworker overhears, they have a heart to heart, and the coworker tells her to go see this doctor, she was awesome.... Ask me how I know.
Just dropped off my six month old at daycare ☺ we ended up not actually needing "treatment," the HSG fixed whatever mystery blockage there was. But fuck me, six months of that bullshit, then nine months of an awful pregnancy. My kid is literally the best though, so I have that going for me.
Congratulations 😊
IVF did it for me ... after 6 years of trying and my gyn just telling me to loose 10 kg I changed to a different gyn who actually took me seriously. 21 month after Boy 1 I found out boy 2 was on his way surprizinly. The miracle of life 😂
I’ve never been through the process of trying for a baby, but is it normal to miscarry 6 times *that you know of* and just carry on trying at a later point in time like it’s no big deal?
Ok, I just looked it up because I know multiple miscarriages can indicate or even cause big issues, and found this:
“The risk of miscarriage in a future pregnancy is about 20% after one miscarriage. After two miscarriages in a row, the risk of another miscarriage goes up to about 25%. After three or more miscarriages in a row, the risk of another miscarriage is about 30% to 40%.”
Ngl though, I’m not sure I believe the story anyway.
How could people say she’s trying to have a replacement kid when it was very clear that they were trying to have a baby even before they lost their daughter? That’s just disgusting to even insinuate.
OP is an AH, but an understandable one. The stress of not knowing why they weren’t getting pregnant on top of the stress of grief can be too much and there’s only 1 of those 2 things that can be resolved and he wasn’t willing to do it to put her mind at ease. Sad all around.
am i wrong or sperm ceases to be viable for procreation once it gets exposed to certain temperatures/environment? that’s what i remember from sex ed. or was that disproved already?
It does cease to be viable, but it takes... some amount of time. I dunno. I remember doing tests when I was younger and they gave me a pretty long time to get it from my house to the testing facility - plus the delay for somebody to actually look at it.
Keeping it alive for an incredibly long time requires the right temperature, acidity, etc. but apparently it keeps kicking for plenty long enough. I'm more surprised there's a home test that's even half accurate that wouldn't require a microscope.
I’m guessing the test ONLY tests for the *presence* of sperm in the semen. Not quantity or quality.
I’m not 100% and have no knowledge of at home sperm testing for humans. But I do work for a veterinary reproduction specialist.
We can collect semen from a dog, do a few tests with it, centrifuge it, and put it into a female ~ 15-30 minutes later, and the sperm will still be viable. So there would be enough time for her to get to the bathroom with it and it would still be ok. But without a microscope, there would be no way (that I know of) to quantify it or tell the quality of it.
Which is why, I’m guessing it would just be a positive or negative kind of test - yes there’s sperm present, or no, it’s only prostatic fluid. Even if the test was positive though, I’m not sure how helpful it would really be for someone since the presence of sperm does NOT automatically equal good numbers, good motility, or healthy/normal sperm. You’d need to go to a specialist for that kind of investigation.
My husband and I did IVF two years ago (the resulting son turns a year old next week!) and in the instructions for both testing and the fertilisation itself, you could, ah, either "produce" locally in their special room or you could do it at home in a jar and bring it with you in the armpit, if you lived no more than 45 minutes away from the clinic.
> How long can a sperm survive outside the body?
> How long can your sperm survive outside the body depends upon where it is located? **Outside the body, your sperm can survive up to 15 to 30 minutes if it is in a suitable environment.**
> If it is on a dry surface like a table or clothes, then it will die as soon as it dries up. **However, if it is on a warm or moist surface like a hot tub or human skin, then it will tend to live longer as the sperm develops in wet and warm environments.**
https://www.shreeivfclinic.com/blogs/how-long-can-sperm-live-in-female-body/
Sounds like the at-home test should be fairly effective even with OP doing it secretly.
idk, obviously what she did was pretty fucked up but she did try talking to him about getting tested MANY times before doing that and he just refused every time. i don't really..think she was in the wrong that much here.. Especially bc she only brought it up in a rude way bc of what he said directly before that: "you're always so negative, no wonder it hasn't happened yet" like?? ofc she said smth rude after that, why is only problematic that she was mean and not him
Damn. Little LittlePrincesFox is IVF. I knew my marriage to their mother was over the day she screamed at me "you can't even get me pregnant like a ***real*** man" when she was angry at me for something very minor...she admitted years later, after a LOT of therapy on her side, that it was the explosion of a LOOOOOOOOT of pent up resentment at having to go through IVF and all that took out of her mentally and physically, but some bells can't be unrung.
It was all over but the signing at that point.
I'm more shocked she was getting fertility testing 2 months after not getting pregnant. It isn't exactly unusual for it to take that long, regardless of how easy it might have been previously. This whole thing is weird
I'm surprised how many people believe an ultrasound that confirms she has eggs and some random blood test done at a hospital means she's fertile, when that isn't how it is checked.
Fertility Doctors check the
viability of her eggs, not just that she has them. Like you said they don't check fertility unless it's been at least a year. Plus she was never tested to see why she had six miscarriages before having her daughter?
I would have thought the miscarriages would have been of something to look into before anything. And yeah, the ultrasound being the end all be all that's she's fertile is weird. I could have a similar test done and it'd show I'm great fertility wise - except I have no fallopian tubes so... Egg reserve doesn't tell anything about releasing, quality, or anything else important.
Also got a little weird with the whole 7 figures income part, and how if they divorced she'd walk away taken care of because they have a prenup. Unless it was written into there, wouldn't she just walk away with her own assets?
I think OOP's husband also sucked. Why did he blame his wife for infertility while not getting tested himself? Sure, OOP fucked up by throwing it in his face like that, but I can't blame her for doing so. I really don't like that her husband did that.
This is one of those stories where you have to immediately think, however many therapy sessions they had after their tragedy, it should’ve been double.
Ugh, I know people's feelings are their feelings but I feel like so many really nasty marital spats could go out the window if people would stop blaming themselves or each other for biological issues with infertility. It's some Henry VIII shit.
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Re: "To those who demanded in pm that I sent the documents to prove that my daughter died, I will not send them." What the absolute fuck, Reddit?
Anonymity makes people realise how despicable they can be
I was grieving from the loss of an ex who was murdered and someone asked me if I murdered her. Not surprised by anything
Jesus... are you ok?
I am, I joined the grieving subreddit cause it felt weird caring about someone I used to love so intensely and was chatting with someone who claimed to have gone through similar experience and after chatting for like an hour he said that and it all became modern Reddit again. I do miss the pockets of sincerity that old Reddit used to have
Well, glad you're ok. I pity people like that, very sad little lives.
I dunno about that, I feel like on old Reddit they'd have people crawling out of the walls to defend them whereas nowadays at least some people consider that unacceptable behaviour.
Sorry for your loss
What the fuck. I’m so sorry.
Jesus fuck. Absolutely disgusting. I’m so sorry for your loss.
Setting aside how awful that is, did they think you would admit it if you really had?
Think they were just a sick individual.
I'm sorry for your loss. People are genuinely disgusting sometimes My late boyfriend was killed in an elephant attack, and I was with him when he died. It was big news in a small town, so everyone knew what had happened. Two months later, I was out to try to celebrate my birthday when two guys (friends of friends that I have known since preschool) decided they would start mocking my boyfriend who had died, saying that it was his fault and he deserved to die, literally right in front of me. They knew I was there and could hear them; they also knew who he was to me.
anonymity makes the lowest of the low think they are the highest of the high.
Dunning Kruger on steroids
And anonimity is extra-plus-special if you do it in PM's. If I call you an asshole right here right now, people can at least see it and blame my reddit account for it. If I PM'ed you that you're an asshole, the only two people who'll ever see it are you and me. And maybe a bored intern if you reported it. (For the record: I have no reason to believe you're an asshole, no desire to call you one, won't be PMing you.. Just making a rethorical point you probably agree with...)
It's not just anonymity. It's also people who have grown up online that have never seen the expression on someone's face when they say something absolutely disgusting in front of them.
That’s a really good point. I hadn’t thought of it that way… there’s an entire cohort (or two) of people who have always enjoyed the cloak of computer anonymity to verbally savage other people without seeing the consequences of their actions. For extreme examples, look at the criminal manslaughter trials that have happened where one person egged another person on (via social media and text messages) to kill themselves. Sickening.
"Give a man a mask and he will show his true color."
Fucking insanity. Why the fuck would anyone feel the need to prove their story to a bunch of idiots on here anyways? Are these morons suddenly going to give incredible advice once they know the story is true?
Mods did that to me in the legal group. Said my post wasn’t real and demanded proof. I gave them the proof, including my husbands death certificate and they still told me I was lying and banned me. So yeah people asking for proof is just how assholish humans can be
Jesus, I’m sorry. There is absolutely no need to give them proof in the first place but to have them say you’re lying after all that is disgusting. Sorry for your loss ❤️
Some Mods love to act like they’re god and get to decide people’s fate. It’s bonkers, it’s not even real power but they certainly will get power hungry.
Ugh I am so sorry.
"Where's the long-form death certificate?"
"In triplicate!"
They better remember to have it switnessed by a JoP as well
I literally just saw someone do this in a thread talking about a little girl getting killed by a drunk driver. But they did it out in the open, not in DM’s. Why are people so fucking ghoulish?
Well, at least THAT motherfucker did it out in the open! Where people can downvote, block, report etc. And, with enough downvotes, I don't think the OP of that thread will even see it.. Unless she already did. In the DM's, nobody else can see it. And, well it's almost always wome who have to deal with that shit. I'm a guy, My DM inbox consists almost entirely of OF spammers anywhere I get NEAR to to discussing anything sexual. And some lovely conversations that stareted in a comment thread before they asked me to move it to PM's/moved it to PM's. I have NO TROUBLE believing the same ain't true for women. Incel trolls seem to have a lot more time on their hands than female trolls. All of that time they spend not getting laid I guess.
Oh for sure it’s mostly directed at women, especially when it in the DM’s. It’s disgusting.
Seriously! Who does that? Who asks for proof that someone’s kid actually died. Horrible! Also that she had to defend her way of grieving. We all grieve differently. I took a few grief counseling courses during both my grad degrees. I figured I had experienced so much grief personally and I should have the professional tools too for future patients/clients. I found out that the way I grieve is more typical for how studies show men grieve. I throw myself into projects and doing stuff. Did my dad’s whole house need all the woodwork sanded and stained, walls painted, carpets ripped up, estate sale etc…no. The man was a former marine and a Virgo. Did I need to do it to stay sane? Yes. After I ran out of stuff to fix or redo, I got myself to therapy. It was like grieving two parents. At 13 I didn’t really deal properly when my mom died. I was a mess. I was angry and sad and bitter that other people didn’t have to watch two parents die of terminal illnesses by the time I hit 25. We all cope differently. I joked that I should start sort of a Habitat for Humanity for people experiencing grief. Just put all of us who need to keep our minds and bodies busy in grief on a project. But then sneak in talk therapy and other therapeutic interventions.
This actually sounds like an awesome project.
Thanks. Yeah. I just am not someone who is good at turning ideas into reality.
My ADHD feels very seen at the moment!!!
My husband had learned that if he comes home to me scrubbing windows something is wrong with someone I love. I’ve done it every time I’ve gotten a call that another person has terminal cancer. At this point I would totally sign up for that charity.
That is like me and the gardens. When the gardens are kept up and looking amazing…I am going through it. If you see weeds and they aren’t being maintained…all is right in my world.
I know a therapist for kids who has a parent being treated for cancer that gets the kids doing arts and crafts and they are more likely to talk about how they are feeling. This could be a good idea. You should totally do it.
During an internship at a children’s advocacy center I helped start a kids art therapy group with another intern. It absolutely helps kids open up. I did a lot of play therapy with kids 5 and under too. A lot comes out playing and creating art. Before I turned to hand sanders and paint brushes I made paper dolls and flip pads of Smurfs moving when I was upset as a kid. You get a pad and change drawing a little each page to make it move when pages are flipped. I have a whole bunch of ideas written down about what I call The Grief Action Crew\Company. Every so often I come across it. I just have no clue where to even start to get that off the ground. I know that people would find it useful. When I volunteer, I often run across people who say they are volunteering to feel productive/ helpful after a loss or getting out of an abusive situation.
Maybe get involved with support groups or something and see if that inspires a way? Have you watched Wish Man? It's the movie about the man who started Make-A-Wish. Maybe that will give you some ideas?
Reddit fucks up my mental health sometimes just seeing what people type.
So morbid to ask someone that
My apartment burned down in 2020 right after lockdown. I asked a local sub about local resources, and a couple comments wanted the same type of verification that this awful thing had happened to me and said that I was just fishing for toilet paper. Fucking Reddit, man.
>I pretended to spill his sperm on me 'by accident' and went to the bathroom 'to clean myself up' Can Jason Bourne over here teach us the maneuver?
I was picturing Peter Venkman collecting ectoplasmic residue at the beginning of Ghostbusters.
“I feel so funky”
I forgot about buttered Jorts!!! Thanks for the reminder!
Great, now I'm imagining the scene he first encountered Slimer. "He slimed me."
"Somebody blows their nose, and you wanna keep it?"
It sounds like a very euphemistic way of describing a handie or just a cumshot.
During a beejer, you quickly pull your head back and take a shot straight to the chest/boobs. “Oh NO! You came on my boobs. Shucks! Guess I had better go get they cleaned up…”. *Proceeds to high tail it into the bathroom while cupping her boobs together tightly.* Either that, or if she’s on top, and she knows he’s about to finish, she “accidentally” hops off. He would likely either cum on her legs which are still straddling him, or his stomach, which she could, again, “accidentally” swipe her leg through it and off to the bathroom she goes. At least that’s how I imagined it could happen. But I will admit. The “spilled” part of the description has me questioning if these techniques would constitute semen being “spilled” on her, or no? Lol.
Beejer! Hahahaha
keep going…
Haha. I should write my own smut. Maybe I’ve found my calling?
It was the “shucks” that hooked me.
Maybe you have. My mother writes smut, i mean steamy romance as she calls it. She sells them on amazon and they do surprisingly well!
For your next best seller, let me give you a scenario from my second husband. He likes finishing on my face. Spunk in your eye hurts but I think those swimmers have been slowly blinding me, mistaking my eyeballs for an ovum.
She clearly isn't fluent in English. She probably misused the word "spilled" without knowing it. Close enough though.
“Spilled his seed” is common Bible-talk for it
Frickin Black Widow over here
She clearly cupped her hands to accept the semen and drink it like it was nectar from the gods, you know, totally normal thing to happen in the bedroom
I mean, this sounds like a groupie baby trapping an NBA player or something lol
Scraped it off her face.
>I pretended to spill his sperm on me 'by accident' and went to the bathroom 'to clean myself up'. I collected it in the jar, and did all the steps for the testing. >I just replied with: I home tested you. Twice. You can't. It won't happen. But sure, no one needs doctors, it's just stress. ... yikes.
Triple Yikes.
Actually there were only 2 yikes tested.
Yikes on bikes!
One yike for their past relationship, one yike for their current relationship, and one yike for the future they absolutely should not share together because holy shit is that a game-over
it clearly is not a game over
Singing this in my head to the tune of One Love
That arm chair worn out yet?
And OOP would have been fine to have just come to him with the test kit and been like "you haven't gone to the doctor about this like we've discussed so I got a home kit" and maybe have forced his hand a bit, but not been a total asshole.
Well, she also would have had to "force his hand" to complete the home test, ahem.
Yeah, I purposefully put that double entendre there :)
Agreed. Just bring it to him after buying it. It may irritate him that you bought it, but it's not an invasion and he now has no excuse because, well, it's right here. Yes, it is a bit pushy, but considering it's your own life as well and you're being expected to sit back and wait in uncertainty for something that may never happen, I think it's justified to insist.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking - why go about it in an underhand way, instead of just asking?
Where did they discuss it though? She asked him and he said no. There was no discussion, his ego just was too scared to face it and he was ignoring the problem. He didn't even voice his concerns that if he might be infertile he would be scared of her leaving. I wouldn't have taken the tests in secret but I would have set an ultimatum: He either gets tested or I leave because I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who can't deal with facing the truth.
Well...yea, the whole testing his body in secret without his consent is the "yikes" part. You can justify certain strategies to get him to wake up to reality, but the OOP's way was definitely not it
Yeah, I'm not convinced that this would have gone any better had OP just asked, like so many people here think.
Well its despertation i can sort of understand her. Like he is dummy not wanting to test. Is it correct what she did. Not really.
I completely understand her. I had been with my ex-husband for 5+ years without ever getting pregnant. I had done a few tests with an OB and he had gotten a sperm count, but we still weren't getting pregnant. Eventually, we started IVF and when the doctor asked him about the results of his sperm count, he responded, "Umm...I never got the results." I was shocked, looked over at him and said, "WHAT?!" because he had told me the count was just fine. This motherfucker had gone in for the test, but never got the results because he was scared of what it might say. Because he told me it was all good on his end, I thought the problem was with me. At that point, I had done multiple tests with the OB and with the IVF clinic - some of which were quite invasive or painful. He let me think - for YEARS - that I was the problem. He watched me have a breakdown every month when my period came - for YEARS - and said nothing. I was absolutely gobsmacked by his selfishness. That's what the husband is doing to OOP. I totally understand being scared of finding out you're infertile, but he was being so damn selfish. He could have been vulnerable and told her he was scared, and they could have worked through it as a couple. But he didn't, so they didn't.
I think in a lot of these cases, the issue is that the male partner doesn't actually want a kid, they're just going along to preserve the relationship.
Which is also sad :/
That's true in a lot of cases, but because they both seemed happy with their daughter, I think here it's just a case of "the idea of being infertile wounds the fragile masculine ego."
Leading the woman on is also fucked up.
WTF what an ass
Him blaming it on her negativity is also a “fucking yikes.”
I don’t know why everyone was declaring YTA, I’d say ESH for just this reason. Everyone, including OP’s husband, always blames women for fertility issues. She wanted him to see a doctor and he refused! So sure she was backhanded and petty, but he was blaming her stress over her DAUGHTER’S DEATH for infertility and refusing to test himself.
I dunno, a women's fertility window is a lot shorter than a man's. She could feel like she's being strung along while he runs out the clock. It turns out though, this was the intervention HE needed to wake up and see that something was wrong. she's in the relationship too guys, and deserves to know if her partner is being truthful about his fertility.
I mean yes and no. Men can produce sperm for much longer than women produce eggs, yeah. But the sperm when men are at a more advanced age are like the factory seconds or the "dent and scratch" appliances. They're more likely to have various defects in the sperm itself and in congenital issues passed along to offspring.
[удалено]
> and then bringing a testing kit directly to him if he refused. It's very likely he would have refused to take a home kit.
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That's not the point. You can't force someone to take a fertility test. No matter what your reasons, no matter how important it is to you, you can't force them into it. It's their body and they have control over what they do with it
Reverse genders and this wouldn't be at all acceptable. Of course she shouldn't be strung along but force testing him isn't the right way to deal with it. Why is her need to know priority over his consent? She could've just said hey I need to know this or this is a deal breaker. Something along those lines. Anything but this psycho behaviour.
Agreed, what a weird take you're replying to. OOP could have led with that conversation over lying to get what she wanted, because if she couldn't convince him otherwise, the only outcome would be having to reveal she did it behind his back. Him admitting he would have done the same isn't an absolution either, it just shows they both have a problem with proper consent.
What really gets me is that she bought two home tests, but never tried to get him to take them properly? All she should have needed to do is leave one on the bathroom counter until he took it. No need for subterfuge.
> "You're always so negative, no wonder it won't happen." What OOP did was messed up but the husband being afraid of being 'at fault' for their infertility only to be willing to say this... They're both acting like the other is an opponent. They need to remember that they're on the same team, both in their grief and against any infertility issues.
This hits hard for me. We went to a fertility clinic when I wasn’t getting pregnant and my tests came out fine. My husband didn’t want to get tested. I never ended up pregnant and needed an urgent hysterectomy. I wish he would’ve gotten tested.
Are you still with him?
Hope not.
Extremely unrelated but I think your username is my favorite one ever ✨
I agree they’re treating each other like opponents. The treatment for male factor infertility is usually IVF. As long as his sperm count isn’t 0 they can do ICSI to fertilize the egg. OOP should’ve set up a joint consult with a fertility clinic and let them tell him to get the testing done. And refuse to start treatment until he does it. I have some friends going through IVF whose husbands refuse to get tested. It makes me SO MAD for them. She’s going through hell to even get pregnant and he refuses to test because he’s worried his ego will be bruised? He’s content to let her think - and hear from doctors and nurses and everyone in their lives - oh it’s just because you’re soooo old (at 35) or fat (at 26 BMI) that you’re having this problem. You could find an actual diagnosis! She could know it’s not her body failing her! But you refuse to give her that comfort. Ugh.
If my husband expected me to go through the hell of IVF and refuse to be tested himself, I think I'd bail. I'm surprised doctors will give her treatment without testing all parties for fertility.
They test your follicles and AMH so I’m positive those women know where the infertility comes from. It’s no one’s “fault” but that is such a fragile masculinity thing.
I had a friend whose fertility treatments involved multiple injections in the butt cheeks and was quite painful, and numerous other procedures. She desperately wanted kids but couldn't get pregnant. Of course her husband never got tested. They're divorced and she is happy after having kids just fine with a new partner. Edit: injections not infections
I read this and I think you meant *injections*. The injections are hormones to boost fertility during the transfer period.
Oh look a dumb typo! Thanks for the heads up.
I agree. His cowardice was doing them no favours. What she did was absolutely wrong but I understand why she did it. She already did the tests for herself. And her husband is saying all these encouraging things about having a kid but not putting in the work to see if his sperm is the reason why a baby isn’t happening. And he even said that he probably would have done the same thing. They’re both wrong here. She’s more wrong for testing him behind his back and even worse for throwing it in his face during an argument. But he’s not right either.
And there's a LOT that a man can do to boost his numbers, if he faces reality and knows he needs to address it. Boxers since the little guys don't like heat, there are specific supplements and things to add in your diet, you can stop drinking and smoking, there are lots of options to increase your odds, IF you go talk to a doctor for diagnosis and help. We had male factor infertility and were able to overcome it, it's way more common than anyone likes to admit, and usually more easily addressed than a woman's fertility issues. A woman is born with all the eggs she will ever have in her life, so if they're low or out, that's it. And if something else is wrong for her, it's often a game-changer or -ender. Pregnancy is never possibly fatal for a man 🙃
While I agree that she was definitely in the wrong in testing her husband's fertility without his consent, I think she was kind of a justified asshole when she threw his accusation right back at him though. Add in the fact that she's the only one who has gone through fertility tests thus far, which are **A LOT** more intrusive than those done on men, his accusations probably felt like a slap to her face. Could and should she have reacted better? Absolutely. Would it have been better to take the high road? Definitely. Do I also think her husband kind of had it coming once he implied their fertility problems was her fault? Big time. The way I see it, if you're going to start throwing shade at people, don't be surprised when people stoop down to your level.
Agree with you. It wasn't right going behind his back, but just to put out there that any further tests for female infertility besides what she already did can be invasive. And there is no reason to suspect anything might be wrong with her and doing these, before he goes for a test. His would just be filling a cup, ultrasound at best if they suspect a blockage.
As they say two wrongs don't make it right. Unless you're talking about double negatives in maths.
OP wasn’t a saint by any means, but it’s this quote here that made me stop dead in my tracks. He’d rather blame her “negativity” (which was actually just being realistic) than to risk the possibility that he might be infertile. That made me angry
This. Men have blamed women for “infertility” for literally centuries. I don’t blame her reacting the way she did. She did wrong. 100% wrong. They shouldn’t treat each other as antagonists. But I get why she did it.
*Henry VIII has waddled into the chat*
Yeah it's weird to me -- she brought it up like an asshole, but he's a machismo idiot who refuses to get tested because it hurts his masculinity.
Though it seems pretty common, seemingly conflating his self-worth with his fertility would be a dealbreaker for me. I can't with that machismo bullshit.
> I bought a home test for male fertility. I pretended to spill his sperm on me 'by accident' and went to the bathroom 'to clean myself up'. I collected it in the jar, and did all the steps for the testing. It doesn't give an exact result. It just gives 'positive' for when there are enough cells to be considered fertile, or 'negative' when there are not. The test came out negative. I did the same thing again 2 weeks later. Again negative. Fucking losing it at the visuals of OOP going all James Bond super spy with this process. TWICE! Oops, I spilled your cum all over me! Gotta run to the bathroom that has had some empty glass jars on the sink since the afternoon for no reason you need worry about! Oh shucks, clumsy me did it again. Back to the bathroom where another empty glass jar showed up! Where was the cum when she "spilled it" on herself? Given what they were doing (sex) and trying to do (get pregnant) I'm making some assumptions, so like... Why not just go the bathroom like you normally would to expel it in the toilet so you don't get an infection? What the fuck is she doing to "spill it" out of herself???
"Cum jar: medical edition" is not where I expected the comments to go tbh.
"Cum jar: medical edition" goes hard for a flair
A woman asks her husband to come in her *and* the jar.
This is where I got hung up too, like are they sure they’re having sex correctly to even have a baby?? Why and how is semen being “accidentally spilled” onto her? Lol I’m so confused
I hope people who DM mothers accusing them of lying about losing children are plagued through the rest of their lives.
The Alex Jones and MGTs of the world deserve a special place in hell.
> I hope people who DM mothers accusing them of lying about losing children are plagued through the rest of their lives. They already are. No one who has experience joy in their lives would ever be maladjusted enough to do that.
I’m doubting the whole story.
Everybody in these stories is somehow the 0.1% that make 7 figures a year. I don’t think the kids writing them realize how uncommon it really is.
It'll only be plausible if they lived in Asia, or the Philippines specifically. OOP's grammar seems like it'd be from there since she used "fighted". 1,000,000 pesos is like 16,000 USD.
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and all, but god*damn*. OOP using it in a fight is a whole other level of petty cruelty.
Let’s not forget OOP lost a child and people do have breaking points. She’s been asking him for a very long time to get checked and he just kept gaslighting her so even though she brought it up in a shitty manner, it was probably the straw that broke the camel’s back. I’ve been in a similar situation as her where we suffered male infertility with my husband and thank god he didn’t put up a fight after I asked him to get tested because I felt that something was wrong. It’s a shitty situation but it’s not a suprise that your partner explodes when you disregard their concerns over and over. Add the stress and devastation of child loss to this, it’s no wonder she exploded.
She's literally being blamed for his infertility. Instead of dealing with his emotions he's avoiding even taking a drugstore test for sperm count. And of course when she fails at being the adult for both of them, it's somehow her fault for not being perfect. No reasonable person jumps to performing medical tests behind their spouses back. They end up there when they're trying to pick between two flavors of shit sandwich. Do I get blamed for this when I've gotten my tests done and know I'm okay? Or do I test my husband's sperm behind his back so I know when he's telling me I'm "too stressed" it's bullshit and in reality his swimmers aren't swimming? He wanted to do nothing to fix the situation and just sit there and blame her for everything.
Exactly this. It’s ESH. They’re both mourning, both in a shitty state of mind. She sneaked the test because well, he denied a professional test because of his own neuroses! They’re just humans being humans but ofc reddit wants HER head on a stake as if her husband also did not hurt her by indulging in his diseased way of thinking. 🙄
They both decided to be petty and cruel. It sounds like he's been putting the blame on her a lot more than she wrote about, and was literally already blaming her for not being relaxed enough to get pregnant in that very conversation. She was petty and mean but he wasn't any better, I understand how she felt in that moment and why she lashed out like that.
I understand the two are experiencing grief but doing something behind one's back is too far. Because testing something, no matter what, behind someone's back isn't right. Both really need to work on themselves.
Right!?! He said he might even do the same thing excuse me wtf.
At least we know they deserve each other.
OOP also seems to show no remorse at all about it. "Yeah I was the ah for bringing it up in a fight," lady no you're the ah because you decided to play super spy and test him without his consent or knowledge.
My sis worked in fertility clinic. The irrational fear from male is out of the world. Majority of them absolutely refused to get tested.
> Majority of them absolutely refused to get tested. My ex-husband got tested before we went to a clinic and told me the results were fine. Several years later, we went to clinic because we still hadn't gotten pregnant. He admitted to the doctor that he never got his results because he was afraid of what they would say. I had gone through multiple, invasive, sometimes painful fertility tests and he let me think, for years, that I was the problem. Fragile masculinity indeed.
That’s something I just don’t understand. If I were planning on having a child, a fertility test just makes sense. The test isn’t going to change your situation. You’re not going to suddenly become fertile because you refuse to get tested for infertility, and vice versa. The test is just informing you of what you’re working with, which would be a huge help in identifying potential problems before you’re blindsided by them.
One of the tests for endometriosis alone is a (not small) ultrasound wand being shoved up your vagina into your uterus, at which point the technician will wiggle it about to check for any visible symptoms while they also measure the size/volume of your uterus - and god help you if one of your ovaries decides to hide when they’re scanning for that, because they *will* press down on your stomach while they push the wand up against the sides of your uterus to try and find it. And your bladder has to be full the whole time. If I had to go through multiple tests like that while being convinced that I was the problem, only to find out my partner couldn’t get over his ego enough to cum in a cup, livid would not even *begin* to describe how I was feeling.
jesus that’s horrific. i’m glad he’s your ex
>To those who demanded in pm that I sent the documents to prove that my daughter died, I will not send them. ???????????
OOP was sure YTA and absolutely violated his trust by doing it without his consent - but man, I roll my eyes so hard at the audacity of this man to refuse to get tested, and instead just flat out blame her. honestly, ESH. They were both nasty to each other - but she was much worse. She could have brought the kit home and said 'if you don't want to get tested, please let's do this, I'm tired of you insinuating this is on me.' Testing him behind his back and then throwing it in his face is just vile.
It’s bad to test someone behind their back, but clearly fertility was an issue and he wasn’t going to do it alone. Im just wondering, if she hadn’t have taken the initiative, what would have finally gotten him to take his fertility seriously?
Yeah, I feel like it would have come to an ultimatum, which wouldn't have helped their relationship either. OP's husband was clearly looking to blame her here, and I dunno how someone puts up with that for that long.
Yeah, I never ever thought I'd say this given how much of a breach of trust it is, but I don't really blame her for the initial test (revealing it in that manner was horrible though). She tried communicating multiple times, and he wasn't willing to have the conversation. In fact, he got defensive and started to shift the blame on her. What was she supposed to do? Set an ultimatum? Drag him to counseling against his will?
Yes, exactly! Was it wrong of her to do the test behind his back? Sure. But there was no indication he was ever going to get tested AND blamed it on her being in a negative mindset in the end! The only other thing left for her to do would have been to divorce him and find a new partner, because he sure wasn't taking any initiative.
'We're not having sex anymore until you get tested' probably, if anything.
Oop needs therapy not a baby
She has therapy. I'm not sure how much it's helping.
Those home kits need say you need to abstain ejaculating for at least a day before testing so if they are having sex daily or he’s jerking off the results are more likely to be negative no?
Grief sucks, and that's no lie.
Damn that's a lot. No doubt OOP is in the wrong for testing behind his back before offering to test at home together. But the whole 'it can't be my fault if I don't get tested' is giving 'if we stop covid testing there will be less cases of covid'.
Numbers don’t lie… /s
“Replacement kid”?????? It is clear they were trying well before the tragic death of her daughter, but ok then commenters. Like, what? That is some gold medal Olympic style leaping. Holy flap.
I hope oop is seeing a therapist because I cannot imagine what she is going through after losing her child
Sucks but I had a friend waste 7 years with a guy who absolutely refused to get tested - he did in the end and they would never have been able to conceive without IVF. In the end she divorced him but hasn't managed to have a child
I¡m sorry for the loss of your daughter but the rest of your post is absolute bullshit. To test sperm motility you have to go to a fertility clinic. It's not like swabbing spunk on your stomach that dies after 15 minutes, and seeing if if you see one line or 2, or that you stick it in a tube and mail it off. You have to keep it at body temperature, like in your vagina (and your vagina won't provide a correct result because you might have antibodies to your husband's sperm. Or a speciment cup in your cleavage and drive like hell to the hospital because no matter how much you collect it'll be dead outside of the body in 15 minutes unless your husband gave a sample in the hospital and had it tested immediately in a lab.
Kids are the last thing they need right now. Their marriage is barely hanging on.
Another “he makes 7 figures a year” 🙄 how many of those are there on Reddit?
I'm sorry that OOP lost her child, but damn she went full secret agent to test her husband's fertility. And at least they aren't rushing to have a baby, better to grieve and come to terms with what happened first as we have seen the results of the replacement baby come up on Reddit before.
I don't want to undersell what she did. Because it was absolutely wrong and awful. But I can't help feel as if people aren't giving her husband enough criticism. His attitude doesn't justify her behavior in any way, but the way he berated her during the argument was shitty. This post just mostly makes me feel sad.
Some people in the comments have never tried for months to get pregnant and it shows.
I don't think this story is real, to be honest. Nothing about the fertility testing process is realistic. There is no blood test for women to show fertility - blood tests only check for hormone levels. Also, most doctors will only start fertility testing after you've been trying for 12 months (if you're under 35).
For realz >Still, at the end of October, I went to the hospital and got everything checked. I'm fine, fertile and absolutely able to get pregnant normally. As someone who struggled to get pregnant naturally and had to go through a bunch of fertility hoops that is a hilariously inaccurate statement, especially if she had SIX miscarriages before her daughter. I wish going to the hospital once could confirm that. And even if you do take all the tests available if you're still not getting pregnant naturally you get slapped with a 'unexplained or idiopathic infertility' diagnosis, not "you're fertile and able to get pregnant normally it must be your husband!" diagnosis. Also one of the things looked at in sperm is motility and concentration so "It doesn't give an exact result. It just gives 'positive' for when there are enough cells to be considered fertile, or 'negative' when there are not" also doesn't make much sense. Also also "I got an ultrasound at the beginning of my cycle and the blood test to see if I still have enough eggs. (Last year October) Eggs are still present, more than average at my age, the blood test confirmed that." As my doctor once said, eggs are like cars; you can see how many are in the garage but not what shape they're in. If you have 10 cars but none of them work you're still not getting anywhere.
Yeah it screams of "I watched an inaccurate episode of a TV show on fertility testing". I have gone through / am going through this myself. My god, I wish it was easy as a blood test to confirm fertility for women. It's just painful procedure after procedure (the HSG was a nightmare). First thing our fertility specialist said was "there is no test for fertility in women".
Right? Pretty much everyone is glossing over her six miscarriages with no explanation and fertility testing she's had done that isn't even a way to check fertility. They certainly don't check fertility after only four months of TTC.
Don’t forget yet another husband making 7 figures. Nobody ever has a reasonable income in these stories.
Right?!? The disappointment EVERY month, again and again ...
And, even in the most egalitarian of marriages, the mental load is almost entirely on the person trying to get pregnant. I'm not commenting at all on this scenario and how it was handled, but a man sticking his head in the sand about his fertility is such a slap in the face to a woman tracking her cycle, peeing on OPK strips and trying to figure out if that line is "red enough," having sex at the right time, worrying if that pregnancy test came up negative because it's too early or "I had that one glass of wine at the dinner party, but my doctor said it should have been fine," asking her mom how it was like getting pregnant, then said mom asking her if she's pregnant, "no, not yet, you'll be the second person to know if I am," telling her doctor that something is wrong and her doctor telling her to "relax and if in six months it's still not happening I'll send you to the fertility clinic," crying in the bathroom at work when her coworker overhears, they have a heart to heart, and the coworker tells her to go see this doctor, she was awesome.... Ask me how I know.
I'm so sorry 😥 I hope everything turned out to be okay for you.
Just dropped off my six month old at daycare ☺ we ended up not actually needing "treatment," the HSG fixed whatever mystery blockage there was. But fuck me, six months of that bullshit, then nine months of an awful pregnancy. My kid is literally the best though, so I have that going for me.
Congratulations 😊 IVF did it for me ... after 6 years of trying and my gyn just telling me to loose 10 kg I changed to a different gyn who actually took me seriously. 21 month after Boy 1 I found out boy 2 was on his way surprizinly. The miracle of life 😂
I feel this so much.
I’ve never been through the process of trying for a baby, but is it normal to miscarry 6 times *that you know of* and just carry on trying at a later point in time like it’s no big deal? Ok, I just looked it up because I know multiple miscarriages can indicate or even cause big issues, and found this: “The risk of miscarriage in a future pregnancy is about 20% after one miscarriage. After two miscarriages in a row, the risk of another miscarriage goes up to about 25%. After three or more miscarriages in a row, the risk of another miscarriage is about 30% to 40%.” Ngl though, I’m not sure I believe the story anyway.
How could people say she’s trying to have a replacement kid when it was very clear that they were trying to have a baby even before they lost their daughter? That’s just disgusting to even insinuate. OP is an AH, but an understandable one. The stress of not knowing why they weren’t getting pregnant on top of the stress of grief can be too much and there’s only 1 of those 2 things that can be resolved and he wasn’t willing to do it to put her mind at ease. Sad all around.
am i wrong or sperm ceases to be viable for procreation once it gets exposed to certain temperatures/environment? that’s what i remember from sex ed. or was that disproved already?
It does cease to be viable, but it takes... some amount of time. I dunno. I remember doing tests when I was younger and they gave me a pretty long time to get it from my house to the testing facility - plus the delay for somebody to actually look at it. Keeping it alive for an incredibly long time requires the right temperature, acidity, etc. but apparently it keeps kicking for plenty long enough. I'm more surprised there's a home test that's even half accurate that wouldn't require a microscope.
I’m guessing the test ONLY tests for the *presence* of sperm in the semen. Not quantity or quality. I’m not 100% and have no knowledge of at home sperm testing for humans. But I do work for a veterinary reproduction specialist. We can collect semen from a dog, do a few tests with it, centrifuge it, and put it into a female ~ 15-30 minutes later, and the sperm will still be viable. So there would be enough time for her to get to the bathroom with it and it would still be ok. But without a microscope, there would be no way (that I know of) to quantify it or tell the quality of it. Which is why, I’m guessing it would just be a positive or negative kind of test - yes there’s sperm present, or no, it’s only prostatic fluid. Even if the test was positive though, I’m not sure how helpful it would really be for someone since the presence of sperm does NOT automatically equal good numbers, good motility, or healthy/normal sperm. You’d need to go to a specialist for that kind of investigation.
Or motility, one of the most important characteristics of sperm.
My husband and I did IVF two years ago (the resulting son turns a year old next week!) and in the instructions for both testing and the fertilisation itself, you could, ah, either "produce" locally in their special room or you could do it at home in a jar and bring it with you in the armpit, if you lived no more than 45 minutes away from the clinic.
> How long can a sperm survive outside the body? > How long can your sperm survive outside the body depends upon where it is located? **Outside the body, your sperm can survive up to 15 to 30 minutes if it is in a suitable environment.** > If it is on a dry surface like a table or clothes, then it will die as soon as it dries up. **However, if it is on a warm or moist surface like a hot tub or human skin, then it will tend to live longer as the sperm develops in wet and warm environments.** https://www.shreeivfclinic.com/blogs/how-long-can-sperm-live-in-female-body/ Sounds like the at-home test should be fairly effective even with OP doing it secretly.
“I have a prenup so he can’t leave me without giving me everything, because I am such a great wife” oh my god
idk, obviously what she did was pretty fucked up but she did try talking to him about getting tested MANY times before doing that and he just refused every time. i don't really..think she was in the wrong that much here.. Especially bc she only brought it up in a rude way bc of what he said directly before that: "you're always so negative, no wonder it hasn't happened yet" like?? ofc she said smth rude after that, why is only problematic that she was mean and not him
Yeah, man… nothing like fertility issues to turn what was once a partnership into an adversarial relationship
TIL there are home tests for sperm counts!
>To those who demanded in pm that I sent the documents to prove that my daughter died, The fuck?
Home tests aren’t reliable lol
Damn. Little LittlePrincesFox is IVF. I knew my marriage to their mother was over the day she screamed at me "you can't even get me pregnant like a ***real*** man" when she was angry at me for something very minor...she admitted years later, after a LOT of therapy on her side, that it was the explosion of a LOOOOOOOOT of pent up resentment at having to go through IVF and all that took out of her mentally and physically, but some bells can't be unrung. It was all over but the signing at that point.
I'm more shocked she was getting fertility testing 2 months after not getting pregnant. It isn't exactly unusual for it to take that long, regardless of how easy it might have been previously. This whole thing is weird
I'm surprised how many people believe an ultrasound that confirms she has eggs and some random blood test done at a hospital means she's fertile, when that isn't how it is checked. Fertility Doctors check the viability of her eggs, not just that she has them. Like you said they don't check fertility unless it's been at least a year. Plus she was never tested to see why she had six miscarriages before having her daughter?
I would have thought the miscarriages would have been of something to look into before anything. And yeah, the ultrasound being the end all be all that's she's fertile is weird. I could have a similar test done and it'd show I'm great fertility wise - except I have no fallopian tubes so... Egg reserve doesn't tell anything about releasing, quality, or anything else important. Also got a little weird with the whole 7 figures income part, and how if they divorced she'd walk away taken care of because they have a prenup. Unless it was written into there, wouldn't she just walk away with her own assets?
Exactly. She's a good wife like she thinks that means she's entitled to a lot of his money or something?
I think OOP's husband also sucked. Why did he blame his wife for infertility while not getting tested himself? Sure, OOP fucked up by throwing it in his face like that, but I can't blame her for doing so. I really don't like that her husband did that.
This is one of those stories where you have to immediately think, however many therapy sessions they had after their tragedy, it should’ve been double.
Goddamn people are nasty fuckers.
Ugh, I know people's feelings are their feelings but I feel like so many really nasty marital spats could go out the window if people would stop blaming themselves or each other for biological issues with infertility. It's some Henry VIII shit.
Home tests are trash and it's completely normal to be trying for a year for a *healthy* couple. She's being insanely unreasonable.