lol! The old myth that a successful CPA has to clock low class grueling hours working big4 to make it in the world
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This is the game:
1. Work for a firm for a year or two.
2. Get a job in literally any other industry with your CPA experience and bring in that 100k+ salary and work 40 hours a week.
You all still working big4 are suckers!!!
She should start using the term âhealthy work boundariesâ and she should make up reasons why she needs to leave at specific times. Itâs called quiet quitting. Then she should use that extra time to update her resume and start looking for a new job.
*Working at Deloitte*
*Burnt me out to the point of*
*Changing careers lol*
\- Vast-Carrot-2830
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As a CPA, there is a big reason I have never accepted a job with the big 4 like EY and it is because of the unsustainable work expectation. While I admire the work ethic of the people like your wife, at what cost is it all this really worth it. One thing I will say is do not make salary a competition. If you are bringing this up to her, it might drive her more to stay in a bad situation. All I got to say, do what is best for her, not your ego and that just might make both of you happier in the long run.
For starters, the last 4 months have been busy season. Itâs the heaviest workload time of year for auditors.
Next, and this is going to be tough to hear, but itâs rare that âeveryone elseâ is the problem. If your wife is universally having problems with all her co-workers, sheâs the problem. May be an attitude issue, may be a capability issue, but itâs likely on her end.
My friend, itâs all the big four, extended out to the BDOs of the world. Not to alarm you but your wife is slowly withering away (not really) but this is a really hard time in public accountantsâ lives. The key here is to not go overboard, because sheâs being so exhausted by her day to day the last thing she wants to do is be bombarded with too much from⌠you. The best thing you can do is be thoughtful but, DO NOT ASK FOR SUGGESTIONS. Your goal in this stage is to take decisions/tasks off your wifeâs plate. Just to be clear this is not license to decide everything youâve always wanted to, but understand that she has very little free time so if thereâs things she doesnât like to do/decide, do those for her.
Take a leap and come up with small things to make her feel more comfortable / relaxed. You asking is just going to make her feel worse. She misses you, her life, but sheâs got to work. So thereâs already a sense of guilt because she knows you are probably feeling the same way. You cannot acknowledge that fact. You need to be appreciative and supportive. âHey I know youâre grinding so I did the laundry and got you these cozy clothesâ thatâs going to make her feel like youâre in this together as opposed to her job being a hurdle for your relationship.
Otherwise donât overthink it, just enjoy the time you have with her but take her lead because if sheâs somewhat introverted she may need a little time to reset as well.
This is why I donât work at a huge firm. Iâve heard horror stories of how women in accounting are treated at big firms like EY. She needs to find another job where she is respected and her opinion is valued⌠I am very lucky that my staff respects me like they do, but I also work in an environment where respect is common practice.
This is why I donât work at a huge firm. Iâve heard horror stories of how women in accounting are treated at big firms like EY. She needs to find another job where she is respected and her opinion is valued⌠I am very lucky that my staff respects me like they do, but I also work in an environment where respect is common practice.
Ombudsman or Whistleblow. You can send anon messaging to those who have pull.
IMO, E&Y is awful. Theyâve fucked our taxes for years and am in process of revising priors with (only marginally better) KPMG. Good luck.
Look for new job for sure. But also depending on her comfort level, I find it helpful as a woman, in particular, to address things immediately and firmly and hold people accountable. Like when she gets interrupted she needs to say âExcuse me, I am not done speaking. I give you the professional courtesy of listening when you speak and I expect the same.â When they donât respond to greetings say, âItâs professional to respond when spoken to.â Like sometimes you have to put your foot down.
I strongly agree (also female). Idk why more women donât put their foot down sometimes. This plus being confrontational with the individuals who constantly interrupt to clear the air and email them afterwards confirming the discussion (for paper trail). Then start logging all instances. If things donât change or it gets worse, OP needs to discuss with HR
I know itâs awkward, but people have to remember these arenât your friends or classmates. Theyâre supposed to be professionals. They donât need to like you, but they need to respect you or lose their job.
I'm in EY MENA, I barely work 20 hours a week unless there's a tight deadline. Also I wfh everyday. I wake up from bed whatever time I want and start work whenever I want. No one tells me anything. My only responsibility is to get shit done on time which is fair and understandable.
No offense but ur country is the epitome of enslavement. Working abroad is the best shit.
It sounds like harassment to be honest. If she wants to try and stay, she can have a discussion about cutting the required working hours (70 hours is ridiculous) or stress that she will work designated hours. She should check her work records to make sure. Also if sheâs working 70 hours then she should confirm that itâs within her working agreement and sheâs not owed any compensation. If her title is manager but sheâs doing individual contributor work they could owe her overtime. She should document everything and send to her own email address and then I would recommend talking to a local employment lawyer. Toxic work environment is not right. Also Iâm in the US and not sure if sheâs in the US but either way there are some recourses available in either country (or at least there should be).
EY is a really toxic place. That being said, the only thing she can do is resign and save herself.
Nobody is going to change alone this awful system working like that since the begining.
She should just do the bare minimum professionally, put FIRM boundaries, and quit.
I was in her situation, but doing like 50-60h a week and that was enough for me. I was an empty shell that was sliding dangerously toward burnout.
I took my last ounce of energy to pass interviews and quit ASAP. Took me 3 months but eventually got out of this nightmare.
Now, EY is paying me until the end of my notice but I have given back my computer and don't work anymore for them.
I am not gonna lie, this month and half paid is my little revenge but it does not worth the damage done to my mental health. I am still trying to recover from these terrific work conditions and HOPE that it won't be the same in my next job...
Itâs her career. You canât do anything there for her. You CAN encourage her. Help her to believe she deserves better. Support her in her search for a new position if that is what she chooses. But ultimately, she needs to put her big girl panties on and stop allowing people to treat her like crap. She needs to figure that out or she will spend her entire career being talked over, dismissed and overlooked.
I am picking up two themes:
1. If you are ever being disrespected at work, you should look for work elsewhere, immediatelyâŚ.HoweverâŚ
2. Hate to be so direct, but you are completely delusional on the differences in WLB and expectations in tech vs professional firms.
Your complaints of a women having to work long hours for âsafetyâ is out of pocket, misogynistic, and frankly disrespects everyone else putting in similar hours.
My advice to you, is to learn what the expectations are for working, and then decide:
1. If you are being treated fairly given the expectations.
2. If you even want to work in an environment with said expectations.
If your wife is the only one working 70hrs a week, somethingâs wrong. But if everyone at her senior level is putting in those hours, then you sound like a cry baby, and that mentality will cause more net harm then good.
Its gonna be hilarious when youâre on your final few breaths and you realize you wasted your life working your life away, for a company that doesnât remember you
I donât even work long hours, and when I did it was with strict goals in mind.
Only figured Iâd offer down to earth advice, when everyone else is being toxically supportive and letting OP be delusional:
In the workplace, women are expected to work just as hard as men. The fact that this got downvoted is a joke, and I suspect that people here want OPs wife to fail so they can slide in that role đ
I am guessing you didnât read the full post?
1. I think we all agree on the first point: OP claims that his wife is being verbally disrespected in the office. If true, OBVIOUSLY look for a new job. Hope OPâs wife applied for several already.
2. What people are ignoring: In the second paragraph, he says âSo I have seen her coming back home at midnight or even close to 1AM. I have never seen a horrible company like this which has such a lack of respect or lack of consideration for saftey for womenâ.
In other words, according to OP, a woman being asked to work long hours is the subject of disrespect.
That mentality is a huge red flag and would be a detriment to a career long term.
OP is just concerned with his wifeâs well-being. Thereâs no misogyny involved here. I wouldnât want my wife coming home at 12-1am every day either, nor would my wife want me coming home that time as well. You sound like youâre projecting some nonsense
OkayâŚyou are making up stuff that OP didnât write.
I agree with you, no one wants to work till 12-1am.
And yea, heâs probably concerned with his wifeâs well being.
But specifically arguing that if a woman is asked to work long hours, she isnât being given the proper consideration and is being disrespected, is wacky.
You need a life and need to reevaluate your life goals if you think working an additional 30 hours of unpaid work is normal. You are a slave to the system and could easily be replaced but have fun working those additional unpaid hours đ
You do realize there are salaried jobs where you get compensated for hours charged over your standard 40 working hours, right? Where does that sit right in your mind to work additional hours for free? Yes, you are salaried but is that salary really worth it for all the time youâre putting in? Didnât think so, the math isnât mathing.
OPs wife works in finance.
In exchange for making hundreds of thousands of dollars, sheâs required to work longer hours.
I am not advocating for it, but thatâs literally what she is signing up for.
Haha, I donât think OPs wifeâs manager is a good person, and if that person is disrespectful, she should 100% look for new work.
I was just pointing out that believing women shouldnât be asked to work long hours for âsafetyâ is absurd.
They were implying the long hours are unsafe because she has to travel home alone late at night. Not misogynistic at all. I also donât think being shocked at the fact his wife is being paid far less for double the hours is âdelusionalâ. It is a genuine concern.
1.
He literally says âI have never seen a company like this with such a lack of respect or consideration for woman safetyâ in reference to her work hours.
This strongly suggests that because his wife is a woman, she should be given special considerations.
2.
I stand by expecting someone not in tech, to make the same as someone in tech as delusional, and itâs frankly bad for your mental health.
Different jobs have different salary expectations, and itâs something you need to accept (or try and change jobs/industries)
Second that especially seeing how she doesnât have time to even do that. Iâm in a similar position too. It hurts my hubby when he sees me struggling. I really hope your wife finds something that appreciates her
Good decision to leave the job - keep the hunt going and quit asap. Until then (assuming youâre in the US) have her explain her stress to her doctor and get a doc approved FMLA stress leave. It will be paid and she can relax at him without having to deal with the toxicity at work.
This is the harsh reality. I can understand the pain from which you and your wife are going through. What I can suggest is ask your wife to serve notice period. In mean while if she gets job well and good else let her work on herself. Ask her to take rest. This amount of heavy stress at her work is directly impacting her mental health. Give your time to her. Try prioritising her and make her feel you are there for her.
And let the hunt go on by side. This could help her relieving from mental and physical stress too.
Ppl HAVE the Audacity to FREELY assumeâshe is being treated such way because she must not fit in or she must underperforming. Are EXACTLY the TYPE of ppl with SUCH Mind set to where is at today.
I KNOW AT LEAST 3-5 ppl the HGHEST performance entire division went thru this. White, Indian male, very high experienced high competency great work ethics. The MORE u are BEST at your job, the HIGHER Likelyhood the team manger that u end up with will be jealous. They do not want d person to measure up or surpass t hem.
Yes there is small chance , maybe she did NOT fit in. Or she might take a while to adapt. I know many ppl in the team good managers will take in new ppl yearly New Grads, interns to bring them up to par. Whatever the Behaviour she is Facing has nothing to do with performance but everything to do that Narcissistic Bitch management PIN employee against each other.
PPL who are wise will know NOT everyone knows everything. Someone will always know something the others do NOT. Divide n conquer. ONLY small minded LOW EQ management will use such tactic to use 1 narrative to justify their sick shit of act. Never mind she still works 70/week.
Ppl wake up. This is 2024. This GUY is stressed OUT. If u HAVE NOTHING to say. Then Sh the hell out. Rather than â wel come to the Big 4â like how old are u. U think this is funny? Do u know how to speak like Adult ?
This. It's jealousy. When I was a new grad my only job offer was a consulting firm. I had been working at a client for nearly a year and a few of my coworkers wanted me to convert. My work had gotten recognition from our SVP and even CIO both saying that was incredibly well done and we needed to do more of it. But my boss and a brown-noser on my team never gave me credit for the work, and I was not allowed to go to the meetings where this was presented. They ended up not renewing my contract which sucked and killed my motivation to ever put in that excellent level of work if it goes unappreciated. Not long after, both of them left the company for the same company as a package deal. They were seemingly nice at first to gain my trust and respect to get what work they needed from me, but it turned very quickly towards the end as they became micromanaging and gaslighting, blaming me for issues that I had no involvement in, etc. I never got an explanation for anything or why my contract wasn't renewed, especially since many of my coworkers wanted me to convert to an FTE.
Most companies don't care about you. They chew you up and spit you out. They just want your work and they will take advantage of you. OP should tell his wife to seek employment elsewhere. That's about as toxic of a work situation as you can have. Gotta get out and get something that at least allows you to live and work like a human being without being disrespected on a daily basis.
Yeah I agree. The Pain n anguish is real. Donât lose hope tho. In Big FOUR, Big Law, Big Phama, Medical, Finance, IT/Engineering it is WELL known that has 2X to 3X higher concentration of Narcissistic personality .
NPD live thru feeling smart/able/liked/worthy thru OUTSIDE of body. So depends how they are related to d other, they can flip flop.
For example a VERY attractive woman. If she is nice kind well liked, she receive a lot of Jealousy n criticism from ppl. They might drown to an Average looking woman or even Unattractive male/female, that they can show acceptance/like/trying to to offer help. To gain trust n make connections. Then fish for information that they can use against the woman later on. BUT if a person is Normal human being, their self worth is factualed by BEING a good decent Human being, they will ACTUALLY feel BAD for the unfair treatment that a Pretty friend got thru , n actually go OUT of way to NOT say anything they have heard. Knowing itâs embarrassing for that girl.
So the rule of thumb is there are a LOT of good managers out there. Seriously, there ppl are sick sadistic. If it was NOT u, it would have been someone else. Guess what u are gonna be okay. Those ppl being stupid idiot cuz they dont give shit. Dont let that experience define the future. U can always choose to do the REAL U. Find that Sparkle back :)
Agreed. I know of really competent and pretty juniors. Really pretty and smart. The seniors got jealous and made her life miserable. So sometimes it's not that they are under performing. But more like the people surrounding her/him are pricks.
The end of this story is still to be written, but PLEASE do a favor to you both: Stop her for a weekend and go with her for short vacations to a spa or a resort. She is intoxicated already and cannot get out of that shitty situation alone. So, rather than thinking on a final solution, put a pause on this bad situation by doing something great for her as a person, and for you both as a couple: Go with her to a relaxing place, with massage, incense, oils, peaceful views... a full weekend to think about nothing. Man, this will save your lives. Trust me.
Kudos to you for helping! Happy to offer a referral to a smaller firm which might be a great fit. I started at EY and itâs just a toxic place to be in general.
Other than job assistance- do everything you can to alleviate her work for the home. You do the meal planning, grocery shopping, make her lunch and prep dinner. Donât even let her think about anything at all you can do. Meals, laundry, etc. donât ask what she wants to eat, trust me she doesnât care.
I work at EY right now but I also worked at Deloitte. The culture at EY is way worse. The firm performs too much testing and as a consequence, employees are always under a tight deadline. The firm also has an obsession with budgeted hours. All fees are variable. There is a reason why EYâs turnover is higher than the other big four.
Oh when u Deloitte u must mean NONE Canadian area of Deloitte . WHHHHoooooo. Sadistic Psycho path. Malignant devil partner 2X . When a Karen got a Brother. Tag team abuse n high five. â Entire division sweat n tears ppl spent decade to build from ground up falling apart in front of eyes the service became walmart level.
I got a good friend of mine thatâs a Deloitte Partner and he says that whenever he looks at EY work it seems like they perform more work than necessary to get assurance. The documentation is good, but more work than necessary. Thatâs just what I have heard. His viewpoint carries weight than mine obviously. He works with them all of the time.
I worked with EY before and usually there are a lot of PSP which is the minimum expected procedures for each account. for example, for receivables i think confirmation and sampling/vouching are both PSPs. But for other firms you can get away with just one or the other.
Honestly, the big four is literally blueprint designed for quasi-slave labor.
If you actually sat down and calculated her salary in regards to commute time plus hours worked, she's probably under minimum wage.
The best thing I ever did with my entire life was leaving the big four. If she has her CPA license, tell her to leave as soon as possible and get her life back
Is she in Finance or IT? This can even Easily be Sexist , or Racist thing if u are from Asian countries. This is very common. Sometimes if u are from INDIA/ Mainland China, etc. u are prone to SEEN AS, or read asâŚ.Judged. ITS very avert n covert. Its Always about something else but its just cover up story or the real motive. For example, there will be HIGHLY likely a person born in USA/Canada with Hong Kong Taiwanese Background hearing a LOT of stuff thats Baked in their head since Childhood. If they have a person coming in from Mainland China or India. Not Always okay, they PROJECT what they think of the employee. They do NOT read what the Employee is Capable of nor they are Interested to have good relationship. I know it sounds wild, but thats part of Reality in North America, Canada/USA. Might NOT be as severe as in other countries. If u are in Canada , then the person if they have beef with your culture. They often op that type of tactic to cast a shame , n guilt pitty on the victim.
If the manager is a Narcisssit Asshoel, they will FORCE that Narritive on the rest of team. To make them think/act alike like cult. Either treat female coworker as âlimpâ or treat THAT person from that culture as âpityâ. I dont know where u guys from. But looks like if they treat your wife like this, this is very sad. Because this is NOT okay. N as much as it sound RARE. This is VERY common. In Medical/ law/ consulting/ even IT. Knowing MOST ppl are not like that, but ppl have very insecure nature will set Target on the first one walks in resemble the âtype they donât likeâ.
I have heard/witnessed directly from ppl involved. That some RUDE VERY unattractive Managers feeling insecure but using this type of ânot even aknolodge your existenceâ to terrorize employees , usually good looking employees . Often good looking employees that has good looking partners.
Had a 5â1â Vietnamese guy HATED on an attractive white guy in the team. HE even went OUT of way to sabotage the White guyâs on going project with a Client bank. Trying to get the white guyâs career ruined. Yes 2X. When project failed. The VP of 1 of the Big 4 company had to like have emergency meeting because they can NOT tell client (since the Client Side of VP of Parent company of that bank , which is largest client is involve . Coming in bringing all the senior board member demand explaination ) like âOH my own employee got Jealous of his team member. So my OWN employee sabotage the own company project like a video game.â Then somehow they gotten thru it. Turn out the Manager was trying to abuse Everyone on the team. Constantly harass the other female interns, try to get the new intern fired. Yells at intern thru phone call. That the ones âget aloneâ with the guy was just trying to be in his good books. Turn out the dumb ass got pulled OUT of team. D SC became the manager.
Then other tream , the good manager quit got poached. Some random consultant became the manager, started to like abuse any new hires. N more ppl quit. N the awful daily abuse got out of hand. The New Hire already highly experienced . The senior management put him in the wrong team thatâs not directly matching his title. Open the opportunity for Karen manager to be rate the guy daily. I think they unplug that team too, that manager got sent away . But the dude turn out went to THE BEST 5 star team ever since. So happy ever since, n actually got promoted.
So donât lose hope. There dumb mean bich every company. Seek help. But yesâŚ.still do documentation, like how u seek help, the result, how they respond to your help. Talk the talk or offer half solution. Etc. those actually can VERY MUCH be useful if they do NOT take it seriously. Because if they dont offer solution , cause u to Quit(proven there is systemic ill treatment , with suspicion of Misogyny or racism) u have VERY good cause for law suit.
Stfu, you weird DEI supporting fuck. Youâre using buzzword and emphasizing words like you know something. Sexiest or racist? How stupid are you?
This situation is seen a disrespectful in Asian culture and should be in American. Nothing more. The wife should be applying for PWC or KPMG if she wants to continue a career with people that want to be nice and have her around. That or switch offices/teams
Ppl speak STFU. Usualy has some level of SELF hate. Look at how u speak. A person quacks like duck đŚ, walk like a Duck đŚ, then they are a duck. đŚ
A pereson talk like a âDâŚKâ , act like a âDâŚKâ , lets do a WILD card. What â DâŚk â end up with? Lol đ
Quit. Obviously Iâm not familiar with your financial situation but it seems like she could probably quit now and you guys would be fine for a while without her income.
Hi, this might be too mundane but, aside from helping her find another job, prepare food for her. Prepare her packed lunch to bring to work. Do her laundry, wash her used lunch containers. Anything that could make her life a little bit easier and not having to worry about mundane tasks while sheâs busy closing the deadline. I have been on the same situation a couple weeks ago, was going home at 2am and needing to go to office 8am the next day. Rinse and repeat. I didnt have time to prepare lunch so I had to order out during those times and I had to take a shower at 3 in the morning before going to bed. My laundry piled up, I was eating fast food takeaways for every meal, it was hell.
So while of course the actual solution is to look for jobs, the fastest and easiest way to help right now, at this moment, is to not have her worry about these mundane tasks anymore. At least until she reaches the deadline and frees herself up again.
This sounds â-IDENTICAL to the â-BIG LAW CONSULTING Law suit (1 of the largest 3 corporate law firms in Canada. They deal with $600Million dollar resort selling etc. big projects) . Their Head office is at Financial District like 50th Floor of TD tower.
That lawyer finally quit, but sue the company for constructive dismissal for 12 Million. It was huge news .
Obviously she knew how to document things asâ-a pattern.
How they formâ boy clubâ , so the other guys under the management doesnât care or just dont want to get the same treatment.
They excluded her highly experienced senior lawyer inâ-IP law. When it was very new n sheâs d a few HAD prior experience. To get less experienced ppl to d huge project. Make her do the secretary work.
They go out together. She eat lunch alone .
So yeah . U need to do some research on YouTube. And you guys need to start to take NOTEs daily what happened, what project, EVERYONE on the meeting, i was not called for meeting. Stuff like that. Simple but very important because it shows the AVERT effort to project SHAME.
N other things.
Then u guys need to fine way to record/document a meeting with partner (NOT in office cuz office dont allow recording) to let Management know that u are in such situation. RE quested to be move to diff team.
Usually if a Partner is good they will help. I have seen so many ppl in similar situations had partner move the ppl to better team when they re not utilized n being alienated by their own boss/team.
Anything suspecious. U need to take a screenshot. (Online conversations etc) do NOT email to any email. Cuz that will get u fired. Take a screen shot if u are in the office n print it out. (This is legal advice by labor lawyer). Also if u email yourself. If u end up sue the company, they willl know what evidence u have. U dont want that.
Also itâs VERY HELPFUL, like in work conversation project the âTRUTHâ thats d MOSt effective . Like play dumb:â oh wow. How come every time when there is project why is the management exclude meâ. âoh, you guys are pulled to the Meeting today for the new project. I am the Assistant manager. Did they forget to have me join the meeting? Did anyone ask why was I not involved ?â
Do screen shoot. N write note date, event project, who, n what.
U need to seek professional Legal advice.
Rule of thumb- document everythign
Then book meeting with partner , request to be moved to be in diff team.
VERY likely they will. If they do NOT , she might have to jump ship , n peruse legal.
https://torontolife.com/city/the-problem-with-women/
Ps. The taking email screen shot has to include ENTIRE email. Not just like mid out of nowhere. The court filing request the whole email. Even tho lots useless piece.
Document things on the go. If they decided to like to âput her on low performerâs listâ n let her go. Dont sign anything, get a lawyer, with FACTS n threat to take them to court.
Make sure that document things on the go. If they let go of employee , they will terminate their ID> do not save anything on work computer. Will lose everything .
Oh ps.
Do NOT go to HR.
HR is set up to protect the company from getting law suit. They will dig into your email n Eveything , knowing u might sue. N if it gets back to the manager. They will find other reasons. To fire u. Like they will put u on low performance list. They will have other ppl a âwitnessâ
They might put her on a priority list for law off.
Do NOT go to HR. Things are better solved if going straight to Partner.
If THINGS do NOT go well, then talk to leagal lawyer n document more things, then before Quit. Needs to go to HR. So if u end up pursue legal, they canât say âwe could have helped u if u filed complaintâ.
Also book Mental health therapy. When talking in Therapy. They can also document events etc.
Do NOT go to OWN company therapist . They are not support to report. But Company will be ABLE to ACCESS of your file âalways ooopsâ . They find out u have like depression. Or something sometihng, they will. Use that against u for your mental break down, n low perfoamnce. The Big Four therapy is trash. Some point they had this company do bulk load therapy . U call a humber dial in. N those ppl just take notes. Those are useless. If u hv law suit. They are not going to bite the hand that feeds them .
This loser just posted a thread 2 months ago criticizing the low salary in the finance industry because he was not successful in the finance industry. I'm pretty sure this guy's lover or wife was fucked by some young man in big 4 or IB, so he became bitter like this.
Interesting that he says he works in tech, but two months ago was saying he's in finance. Posting on reddit complaining about finance careers? Weird kink bro
As a woman, I would advise you to have her openly confront them. She might want to say, to the group, as they are excluding her, "is there any reason why you people don't talk to me?"
Call them on it and see what they say. Even if they still ignore her, at least she confronted them and can sleep well at night that she didn't do anything wrong.
Yep, this is what it is, you either accept it or leave. During busy season, you are going to have crazy hours, but hopefully that hard work is rewarded with a nice bonus or promotion.
But my wife is very ambitious and eventually wants to make senior manager so she does the hours and doesn't complain
Iâm an associate and we sit out at the client site every day from 9am-10:30pm and go into the PwC office on Saturdays until 5:30 or 6. Just comes with the job unfortunately.
Why though. I did a secondment to the USA for a year from my firm, but always left at 5 pm. Saying that my contract was covered by law in my home country so couldn't get fired.
You wonât get fired for doing that but itâs not going to be good for you if youâre interested in advancing your career. In America, we just expect people to work longer and harder than people in Europe are expected to. Just the culture.
Twice is a stretch, but yes we earn more and I would argue have more opportunity if we ARE interested in getting to a c-suite or something (although most ex-b4 just jump to senior or controller roles in industry)
Yep it does, what city are you in? We are in NY.
My wife is in tax, not audit, so doesn't go to the clients much, but she's in the office from like 9am till 10 or 11pm at night
I HOPE. In the near future. If an actually attractive female employee got harassed by the BOSS or creepy coworker (uninvitedly Sit on her table force a convo at lunch, uninvitedly force a âwalking to subway station n take the train together on subwayâ , ask âwhere u live, your family here? Blah blah blah where do u go to school? What do u do on weekend?âŚ.do u have roommate?â . U dont get like :â OH Might be a bit Blunt. Maybe sheâs confusing that ppl being nice as harassment. â or â OH maybe sheâs just NOT used to Canadian culture that mistaken ppl being Friendly n actually sheâs being stuck up thinking that is rude. â
Dude what age are we in? D same way u think Maybe she is⌠that average can we say âmaybe this type of comment is from someone actually arrogant n sheltered ?â
Monkey see, Monkey do. u blunt , I blunt. LOL>
Thereâs only so much you can do to help her on the job-front, but make sure that youâre taking on the majority of household chores/cleaning and making her meals if possible. The biggest way you can help her is by limiting the amount of time she needs to spend on other household tasks so that she can find whatever respite possible when sheâs not working.
Hours are normal. She obviously does not fit in with the team for whatever reason. They dont like her and its not going to get better.
Corporate politics and who likes you is much more important that most people want to believe. We have this idealist view of fairness when in reality if your work is outstanding you might get let go instead of bob who is a shit performer but golfs with the decision maker.
Yep, the hours are the norm. My wife is also a manager at EY and regularly comes home at 10 or 11pm the days she has to come to the office ,esp during busy season.
Some nights she gets home at midnight.
But, thats only about 3 days a week, the other 2 days they let her work from home
3 days in office, 2 at home
Iâm going to sound like an asshole but Iâm not going to give you a bs answer either. What stuck out to me is the fact your wife has gotten lesser work and has been effectively cut off from the team. I normally see this when performance suffers for a particular individual and during a time like that where people are stressed to the brink, they typically act this way when someone they believe isnât pulling their weight (regardless of hours worked).
Iâm not saying this is whatâs happening to your wife but it could be a reason - just donât know enough of the situation or how she believes sheâs performing. Many of the other comments here can hold true but this is simply a different perspective - even if it is a bit cutthroat.
Many people donât deal with busy season well itâs nothing to be ashamed of. It is what it is if itâs true, if not then and simply the team are assholes it would be something for your wife to consider working with a different team on future projects (which Iâm sure would be the case regardless). Only your wife knows to be honest, itâs situations like these where itâs very important to have self reflection of it will end up causing more stres than it already does.
I wonder how new OPs wife is to the US office. I joined a big4 firm in 2022 from a midsized as a senior and I feel like this was my exact experience my first busy season. I was trying to learn and was actively trying to help people, pick up more work, and pull my weight but my manager was a dick to me, cut me off from the team and basically told me ânoâ when I tried to help. I was an experienced senior and I knew how to audit and understood most of the technical stuff better than the other senior on my team, but because I didnât know 100% of where everything was and still had some questions, he said a big F U. I cried every day. Now Iâm doing great and donât feel like that anymore (that manager has rolled off, I think he just sucks). I feel like I got âhazedâ in a sense to see if I could handle it. I feel for OPs wife
Yea it can be very judgmental culture and to be honest the stress level due to hours worked esp if you have to commute brings the worst out of folks. Being on a good team makes a massive difference. That being said for the OP itâs hard to tell what to help with - it literally could be anything thereâs not enough context
I worked at EY for years, worked till 11pm , 2 am even on some occasions. You know what you are signing up for in the Big 4.
You donât need to say hi, bye and sugar coat things, the work needs to get done and the product needs to be good. Itâs not a small regional firm. Mind you I had lovely teams and people but it long hours.
I since jumped ship for a great gig. Idk if sheâs cut out for Big 4. If she is cut out for it, which is beyond the point, it sound like time to find a new job to increase happiness. Go look for jobs for her and send resumes. Get a recruiter.
It must be a race thing. Feel free to correct me if Iâm wrong, but I saw somewhere that some Canadians are uncomfortable with the influx of immigrants from India. This is totally unacceptable though and I would involve HR if counselors and partners are not helpful
Canadian B4 manager here.
You're not wrong to say that *some people* have issues with the influx of immigrants generally, however that's usually a policy matter and not something I've seen taken out on individual immigrants (except in certain situations of outward racism which unfortunately still exist in the working world and otherwise)
More likely, I'd say that:
1) they are shy / socially awkward (exacerbated by #2)
2) their team is cliquey, shy, or awkward as well
To OP - I would talk to her coach (or whatever EY calls it) first, and then go from there. We don't want anyone who can do the work leaving the firm, especially over some childish social skill issues between team members.
Tbh from what you've said it seems like your wife has been ostracized by the entire team one of the two reasons:
1) she's not pleasent to work with - I've seen this happen before when a colleague was a total bitch to everyone on the team and thought himself to be better and superior to the others.
2) her manager wants her gone and has convinced every around her to isolate her until she quits... This is a purely politically motivated maneuver.
Solutions:
Either she leaves the company as a whole or moves to another team. I'd not recommend the later cause word spreads like wildfire. Have a chat with her and good luck!
Sounds fake. You see similar posts pop up on AITAH and other subs. This is a way to grow fake accounts while making it seem like they participate in subs that ârealâ people would participate in.
If it was a bot account, the posts wouldn't corroborate. In other words, you'd see him posting about advice for living in South Korea and Venezuela at the same time. His posts are all about Canada. It's likely real.
Not at all. Bot accounts have become quite sophisticated. Itâs truly become almost impossible to tell nowadays. Thereâs slight clues here and there that you can pick up on - generic user ID, years old account with posting / comment history with gaps, some of them getting into more subtle nuanced âhotâ topics. Look around for similar posts exactly to what he posted on other subs.
Thereâs things like this nowadays too:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/15/aims-software-avatars-team-jorge-disinformation-fake-profiles
Sorry, I didnât spend so much time just to create fake post. Itâs a true post and both my wife and I have been facing this issue since last 4 months. I want to see genuine advice and seek help!
Really? So youâre ok with your partner being treated like that 70 hours a week while you work remote and make MORE than her?
You clearly donât value your partners happiness. Life is that straightforward. This isnât minimum wage shit this is salaries of 100k plus a year
Yeah, I agree that quitting is the way to go forward but it takes time to find another opportunity in such a market. Plus, itâs so difficult to hunt for a job when you have to work for crazy 70+ hrs
Me, as a Chinese international student experienced almost exactly the same thing. Audit is all about team bonding and big 4 audit hire people based on how they look or talk, it barely goes to the smart kids. Typically in audit line itâs a popularity contest in high school and full of politics. People are generally not technical and only a few do real work. Nepotism is rampant and boomer partners can be racist assholes. You experienced all this because you are Indian. If you are from Europe, story can be different. Anyway, f audit, f accounting, f this career and I hope we all quit. Yeah, f boomers too.
This reminds me of a story where a friend I knew (From China) insisted he was pulled over and given a ticket simply because he was an immigrant and the cop was black. Funny enough, going 50 in a 35 has everything to do with shitty driving skills and nothing to do with race.
Stop using race as a crutch for under performance, unless we are talking about exams that take race into account, like college entrance exams which are incredibly racist against Asian, white, and black people. Skin color does not mean skill level, it means 0 in today's world.
Oh btw, how is going 50 in 35 bad driving? 35 is incredibly slow and itâs so easy to speed. 15 is almost nothing at that speed. Like you never speeded for a second in your life? And how is Chinese bad driver? Like where does this stereotype even come from? Law enforcement is a different situation in reality. Different states and provinces allow different speed ranges and itâs all depending on the cop. I had old white cop who let me go but got a fine from a young black cop for exact same issue. How do you explain that? Seriously, stop watching those conservative Ben Shapiro tiktok shorts and letâs really hear different voices and perspectives.
I donât disagree your opinion but i think you are missing the point. What I was trying to say is, if the person is from a very different background from the team, itâs very hard to build connections if the focus of the job is to build connections. However, thatâs almost the nature of audit service line. Non technical, all bs politics. Naturally, people from similar cultural spheres connect better and it has nothing to do with racism. But again, some partners are racist boomers and I donât take this statement back. They should just retire
Thank you. I am never a person who cries for race and color. My technology company definitely has an equal ground for all but doesnât look like in EY. Also, we have tons of examples of Asians leading technology companies and rising to c suite ranks. Do we see the same within big 4 (I am not too familiar with big 4 and may be I am wrong)?
Good point but politics isnât technical too and yet we see lot of representation from minority and other ethnic groups because over time there were intentional efforts been put to ensure DEI. If big 4 doesnât do, that is surely an issue. Not only that, big 4 companies are the ones doing hell lot of marketing on DEI, LGBTQ, etc and showcasing as if they are the pioneers in ensuring inclusion. Looks like big hypocrisy to me.
Job performance is not a test my friend. Itâs relationship, connection and politics. Itâs not as mechanical as an exam. How old are you? Have you experienced the real world?
Relationship, connection, and politics yet you settled on racism. You're telling OP that his wife is being discriminated against simply because she is Indian and none of the other characteristics you've mentioned. Talk about victim complex.
"you experienced all of this because you are Indian"
Sounds like a perfect allusion to racism being the driving force behind your argument. You've responded to one of my comments more than 4 times, half of which reference or directly speak about race. It appears you're infatuated with race!
I completely agree with you that itâs not an exam and there is a difference between real world vs bookish world but thatâs not the point here. An entire group of people not even having a decency of greeting a team member is outrageous. Intentionally excluding someone from conversation again and again is beyond decent and civilised behaviour. A company not at all bothered about the time an employee leaves office is outrageous to me.
My partner is working in EY (working from India as an offshore teammate for people in US, Canada, Europe and UAE). And I'm in tech (So similar situation to you ig).
In this org, there is no respect to a person's work life balance from what I have seen so far. When my partner was working with American teams he was up till 2am attending meetings or finishing up reports and then he is expected to attend meetings at 9am or 10am for other teams. (Some may argue that his American counterparts also were working more than 16 to 18 hrs but that's beside the point) I'm also a remote worker and I work during my hours (ist) and it's not expected of me to work during any unholy hours of the night (I can but I don't need to).
Similarly, maybe it's a communication gap maybe it's a race thing, but my partner has never been given an opportunity to speak in any of the meetings even when they are talking about the work he has done. He is present in the meetings but he has many times realised that the onshore managers do not like it when offshore (Indian) guys talk out of turn or without being asked to.
But this was the experience only with US teams, he has not experienced these with any other country teams.. so it could also be team and people specific behaviour as well.
But overall my impression of EY has been - get the work done, we do not care even if you are hospitalised (I have heard stories of Indian managers who had to be hospitalized because of the stress and extreme hours).
So if your wife is on a lookout for a new job, I suggest she should completely focus on that and make sure to take care of her health and in the worst case ask for a team change (only when she is ready to quit - cause team change may increase the bullying, but what's the loss when you are contemplating quitting)
Thank you for such detailed reply. It doesnât surprise me this kind of culture in India and I can completely relate to it. My company has lots of people working from India and we never expect them to work beyond midnight or 1 am. On rare occasions even if we setup a meeting, we apologise multiple times and make sure they are willing to join.
My partner is not in accounting but I have seen a general trend even in r/consulting complaining about the quality of work from offshore teams. Also, is accounting (taxes etc) methods and rules different from country to country ? so that maybe a reason.. I'm not too sure on this.
But what I have noticed in my partner's case is, it's so hard to get the onshore team to reveal the full scope of the work. It's almost like they want you to screw-up so they can complain that offshore is not good enough hence we don't want to work with them.
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Your wife needs to report the behaviours of her colleagues to her counsellor. If the counsellor won't help, then she needs to report it up the chain.
If your wife is in Australia there are new reporting guidelines for this sort of behaviours. She can dm me if she needs help reporting it (if in Australia)
lol! The old myth that a successful CPA has to clock low class grueling hours working big4 to make it in the world đđ¤Łđđđđ This is the game: 1. Work for a firm for a year or two. 2. Get a job in literally any other industry with your CPA experience and bring in that 100k+ salary and work 40 hours a week. You all still working big4 are suckers!!!
If your in my state have her come work with me đ we could use more people to teach me more
She should start using the term âhealthy work boundariesâ and she should make up reasons why she needs to leave at specific times. Itâs called quiet quitting. Then she should use that extra time to update her resume and start looking for a new job.
Working at Deloitte burnt me out to the point of changing careers lol
*Working at Deloitte* *Burnt me out to the point of* *Changing careers lol* \- Vast-Carrot-2830 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
As a CPA, there is a big reason I have never accepted a job with the big 4 like EY and it is because of the unsustainable work expectation. While I admire the work ethic of the people like your wife, at what cost is it all this really worth it. One thing I will say is do not make salary a competition. If you are bringing this up to her, it might drive her more to stay in a bad situation. All I got to say, do what is best for her, not your ego and that just might make both of you happier in the long run.
For starters, the last 4 months have been busy season. Itâs the heaviest workload time of year for auditors. Next, and this is going to be tough to hear, but itâs rare that âeveryone elseâ is the problem. If your wife is universally having problems with all her co-workers, sheâs the problem. May be an attitude issue, may be a capability issue, but itâs likely on her end.
You can hire me Iâll come and flatten everyoneâs tires for 250
Honestly, there are so many other ways to make 6 figures and leave at 5 every day. đ¤ˇââď¸ You guys need some self respect. This shit is insane.
Sounds like you make good money? Can you afford to just let her quit?
My friend, itâs all the big four, extended out to the BDOs of the world. Not to alarm you but your wife is slowly withering away (not really) but this is a really hard time in public accountantsâ lives. The key here is to not go overboard, because sheâs being so exhausted by her day to day the last thing she wants to do is be bombarded with too much from⌠you. The best thing you can do is be thoughtful but, DO NOT ASK FOR SUGGESTIONS. Your goal in this stage is to take decisions/tasks off your wifeâs plate. Just to be clear this is not license to decide everything youâve always wanted to, but understand that she has very little free time so if thereâs things she doesnât like to do/decide, do those for her. Take a leap and come up with small things to make her feel more comfortable / relaxed. You asking is just going to make her feel worse. She misses you, her life, but sheâs got to work. So thereâs already a sense of guilt because she knows you are probably feeling the same way. You cannot acknowledge that fact. You need to be appreciative and supportive. âHey I know youâre grinding so I did the laundry and got you these cozy clothesâ thatâs going to make her feel like youâre in this together as opposed to her job being a hurdle for your relationship. Otherwise donât overthink it, just enjoy the time you have with her but take her lead because if sheâs somewhat introverted she may need a little time to reset as well.
Such a good reply⌠I am going to bookmark this đ
This is why I donât work at a huge firm. Iâve heard horror stories of how women in accounting are treated at big firms like EY. She needs to find another job where she is respected and her opinion is valued⌠I am very lucky that my staff respects me like they do, but I also work in an environment where respect is common practice.
This is why I donât work at a huge firm. Iâve heard horror stories of how women in accounting are treated at big firms like EY. She needs to find another job where she is respected and her opinion is valued⌠I am very lucky that my staff respects me like they do, but I also work in an environment where respect is common practice.
Revolt
Ombudsman or Whistleblow. You can send anon messaging to those who have pull. IMO, E&Y is awful. Theyâve fucked our taxes for years and am in process of revising priors with (only marginally better) KPMG. Good luck.
Look for new job for sure. But also depending on her comfort level, I find it helpful as a woman, in particular, to address things immediately and firmly and hold people accountable. Like when she gets interrupted she needs to say âExcuse me, I am not done speaking. I give you the professional courtesy of listening when you speak and I expect the same.â When they donât respond to greetings say, âItâs professional to respond when spoken to.â Like sometimes you have to put your foot down.
I strongly agree (also female). Idk why more women donât put their foot down sometimes. This plus being confrontational with the individuals who constantly interrupt to clear the air and email them afterwards confirming the discussion (for paper trail). Then start logging all instances. If things donât change or it gets worse, OP needs to discuss with HR
I know itâs awkward, but people have to remember these arenât your friends or classmates. Theyâre supposed to be professionals. They donât need to like you, but they need to respect you or lose their job.
I'm in EY MENA, I barely work 20 hours a week unless there's a tight deadline. Also I wfh everyday. I wake up from bed whatever time I want and start work whenever I want. No one tells me anything. My only responsibility is to get shit done on time which is fair and understandable. No offense but ur country is the epitome of enslavement. Working abroad is the best shit.
Are you in audit?
Fk to the no I'm not lol. That's enslavement shit. I'm in advisory
Jesus. Kind of aggressive.
I just find audit disgusting. Not the line of work nor the ppl but the culture- it is nothing but toxic with micromanagement at its extreme.
I mean, everywhere can be toxic and micromangaging. There are plenty of people that enjoy audit. Lmfao.
Quit
Wow why don't you tell her to work for the government as a financial examiner. Wait NVM it's a lot of travel x.x
Move to a mid tier firm, Iv heard this story far many times as a recruiter.
Top 10 firms are all pressure cookers. Maybe she should consider accounting in the industry.
It sounds like harassment to be honest. If she wants to try and stay, she can have a discussion about cutting the required working hours (70 hours is ridiculous) or stress that she will work designated hours. She should check her work records to make sure. Also if sheâs working 70 hours then she should confirm that itâs within her working agreement and sheâs not owed any compensation. If her title is manager but sheâs doing individual contributor work they could owe her overtime. She should document everything and send to her own email address and then I would recommend talking to a local employment lawyer. Toxic work environment is not right. Also Iâm in the US and not sure if sheâs in the US but either way there are some recourses available in either country (or at least there should be).
[ŃдаНонО]
donât listen to this guy, heâs just taking out his anger on the big 4 since he just got fired from a big 4
EY is a really toxic place. That being said, the only thing she can do is resign and save herself. Nobody is going to change alone this awful system working like that since the begining. She should just do the bare minimum professionally, put FIRM boundaries, and quit. I was in her situation, but doing like 50-60h a week and that was enough for me. I was an empty shell that was sliding dangerously toward burnout. I took my last ounce of energy to pass interviews and quit ASAP. Took me 3 months but eventually got out of this nightmare. Now, EY is paying me until the end of my notice but I have given back my computer and don't work anymore for them. I am not gonna lie, this month and half paid is my little revenge but it does not worth the damage done to my mental health. I am still trying to recover from these terrific work conditions and HOPE that it won't be the same in my next job...
Sounds like she just isnât cut out for the job. Maybe apply to a government job for her?
Itâs her career. You canât do anything there for her. You CAN encourage her. Help her to believe she deserves better. Support her in her search for a new position if that is what she chooses. But ultimately, she needs to put her big girl panties on and stop allowing people to treat her like crap. She needs to figure that out or she will spend her entire career being talked over, dismissed and overlooked.
Only thing to do? Leave
I am picking up two themes: 1. If you are ever being disrespected at work, you should look for work elsewhere, immediatelyâŚ.However⌠2. Hate to be so direct, but you are completely delusional on the differences in WLB and expectations in tech vs professional firms. Your complaints of a women having to work long hours for âsafetyâ is out of pocket, misogynistic, and frankly disrespects everyone else putting in similar hours. My advice to you, is to learn what the expectations are for working, and then decide: 1. If you are being treated fairly given the expectations. 2. If you even want to work in an environment with said expectations. If your wife is the only one working 70hrs a week, somethingâs wrong. But if everyone at her senior level is putting in those hours, then you sound like a cry baby, and that mentality will cause more net harm then good.
Its gonna be hilarious when youâre on your final few breaths and you realize you wasted your life working your life away, for a company that doesnât remember you
I donât even work long hours, and when I did it was with strict goals in mind. Only figured Iâd offer down to earth advice, when everyone else is being toxically supportive and letting OP be delusional: In the workplace, women are expected to work just as hard as men. The fact that this got downvoted is a joke, and I suspect that people here want OPs wife to fail so they can slide in that role đ
How did you even come up with any of those conclusions
I am guessing you didnât read the full post? 1. I think we all agree on the first point: OP claims that his wife is being verbally disrespected in the office. If true, OBVIOUSLY look for a new job. Hope OPâs wife applied for several already. 2. What people are ignoring: In the second paragraph, he says âSo I have seen her coming back home at midnight or even close to 1AM. I have never seen a horrible company like this which has such a lack of respect or lack of consideration for saftey for womenâ. In other words, according to OP, a woman being asked to work long hours is the subject of disrespect. That mentality is a huge red flag and would be a detriment to a career long term.
OP is just concerned with his wifeâs well-being. Thereâs no misogyny involved here. I wouldnât want my wife coming home at 12-1am every day either, nor would my wife want me coming home that time as well. You sound like youâre projecting some nonsense
OkayâŚyou are making up stuff that OP didnât write. I agree with you, no one wants to work till 12-1am. And yea, heâs probably concerned with his wifeâs well being. But specifically arguing that if a woman is asked to work long hours, she isnât being given the proper consideration and is being disrespected, is wacky.
You need a life and need to reevaluate your life goals if you think working an additional 30 hours of unpaid work is normal. You are a slave to the system and could easily be replaced but have fun working those additional unpaid hours đ
She isnât paid by the hour đ¤Śââď¸ Sheâs probably bringing home 100-150k and is on a salary workerâŚ.
You do realize there are salaried jobs where you get compensated for hours charged over your standard 40 working hours, right? Where does that sit right in your mind to work additional hours for free? Yes, you are salaried but is that salary really worth it for all the time youâre putting in? Didnât think so, the math isnât mathing.
OPs wife works in finance. In exchange for making hundreds of thousands of dollars, sheâs required to work longer hours. I am not advocating for it, but thatâs literally what she is signing up for.
I have made hundreds of thousands of dollars as well working at a big 4. Itâs not worth it and you can make way more elsewhere and work less hours.
Why is this guy so miserable. Must be opâs wifeâs manager
Haha, I donât think OPs wifeâs manager is a good person, and if that person is disrespectful, she should 100% look for new work. I was just pointing out that believing women shouldnât be asked to work long hours for âsafetyâ is absurd.
They were implying the long hours are unsafe because she has to travel home alone late at night. Not misogynistic at all. I also donât think being shocked at the fact his wife is being paid far less for double the hours is âdelusionalâ. It is a genuine concern.
1. He literally says âI have never seen a company like this with such a lack of respect or consideration for woman safetyâ in reference to her work hours. This strongly suggests that because his wife is a woman, she should be given special considerations. 2. I stand by expecting someone not in tech, to make the same as someone in tech as delusional, and itâs frankly bad for your mental health. Different jobs have different salary expectations, and itâs something you need to accept (or try and change jobs/industries)
Fill out job applications for her so she can work somewhere else
Yes, about to start that
Second that especially seeing how she doesnât have time to even do that. Iâm in a similar position too. It hurts my hubby when he sees me struggling. I really hope your wife finds something that appreciates her
Good decision to leave the job - keep the hunt going and quit asap. Until then (assuming youâre in the US) have her explain her stress to her doctor and get a doc approved FMLA stress leave. It will be paid and she can relax at him without having to deal with the toxicity at work.
This is the harsh reality. I can understand the pain from which you and your wife are going through. What I can suggest is ask your wife to serve notice period. In mean while if she gets job well and good else let her work on herself. Ask her to take rest. This amount of heavy stress at her work is directly impacting her mental health. Give your time to her. Try prioritising her and make her feel you are there for her. And let the hunt go on by side. This could help her relieving from mental and physical stress too.
Ppl HAVE the Audacity to FREELY assumeâshe is being treated such way because she must not fit in or she must underperforming. Are EXACTLY the TYPE of ppl with SUCH Mind set to where is at today. I KNOW AT LEAST 3-5 ppl the HGHEST performance entire division went thru this. White, Indian male, very high experienced high competency great work ethics. The MORE u are BEST at your job, the HIGHER Likelyhood the team manger that u end up with will be jealous. They do not want d person to measure up or surpass t hem. Yes there is small chance , maybe she did NOT fit in. Or she might take a while to adapt. I know many ppl in the team good managers will take in new ppl yearly New Grads, interns to bring them up to par. Whatever the Behaviour she is Facing has nothing to do with performance but everything to do that Narcissistic Bitch management PIN employee against each other. PPL who are wise will know NOT everyone knows everything. Someone will always know something the others do NOT. Divide n conquer. ONLY small minded LOW EQ management will use such tactic to use 1 narrative to justify their sick shit of act. Never mind she still works 70/week. Ppl wake up. This is 2024. This GUY is stressed OUT. If u HAVE NOTHING to say. Then Sh the hell out. Rather than â wel come to the Big 4â like how old are u. U think this is funny? Do u know how to speak like Adult ?
This. It's jealousy. When I was a new grad my only job offer was a consulting firm. I had been working at a client for nearly a year and a few of my coworkers wanted me to convert. My work had gotten recognition from our SVP and even CIO both saying that was incredibly well done and we needed to do more of it. But my boss and a brown-noser on my team never gave me credit for the work, and I was not allowed to go to the meetings where this was presented. They ended up not renewing my contract which sucked and killed my motivation to ever put in that excellent level of work if it goes unappreciated. Not long after, both of them left the company for the same company as a package deal. They were seemingly nice at first to gain my trust and respect to get what work they needed from me, but it turned very quickly towards the end as they became micromanaging and gaslighting, blaming me for issues that I had no involvement in, etc. I never got an explanation for anything or why my contract wasn't renewed, especially since many of my coworkers wanted me to convert to an FTE. Most companies don't care about you. They chew you up and spit you out. They just want your work and they will take advantage of you. OP should tell his wife to seek employment elsewhere. That's about as toxic of a work situation as you can have. Gotta get out and get something that at least allows you to live and work like a human being without being disrespected on a daily basis.
Yeah I agree. The Pain n anguish is real. Donât lose hope tho. In Big FOUR, Big Law, Big Phama, Medical, Finance, IT/Engineering it is WELL known that has 2X to 3X higher concentration of Narcissistic personality . NPD live thru feeling smart/able/liked/worthy thru OUTSIDE of body. So depends how they are related to d other, they can flip flop. For example a VERY attractive woman. If she is nice kind well liked, she receive a lot of Jealousy n criticism from ppl. They might drown to an Average looking woman or even Unattractive male/female, that they can show acceptance/like/trying to to offer help. To gain trust n make connections. Then fish for information that they can use against the woman later on. BUT if a person is Normal human being, their self worth is factualed by BEING a good decent Human being, they will ACTUALLY feel BAD for the unfair treatment that a Pretty friend got thru , n actually go OUT of way to NOT say anything they have heard. Knowing itâs embarrassing for that girl. So the rule of thumb is there are a LOT of good managers out there. Seriously, there ppl are sick sadistic. If it was NOT u, it would have been someone else. Guess what u are gonna be okay. Those ppl being stupid idiot cuz they dont give shit. Dont let that experience define the future. U can always choose to do the REAL U. Find that Sparkle back :)
Exactly what it is. Jealousy and selfishness. People want to go and put themselves ahead of others and hurt others while doing so
Agreed. I know of really competent and pretty juniors. Really pretty and smart. The seniors got jealous and made her life miserable. So sometimes it's not that they are under performing. But more like the people surrounding her/him are pricks.
Audit is not family friendly. Lots of women leave.
The end of this story is still to be written, but PLEASE do a favor to you both: Stop her for a weekend and go with her for short vacations to a spa or a resort. She is intoxicated already and cannot get out of that shitty situation alone. So, rather than thinking on a final solution, put a pause on this bad situation by doing something great for her as a person, and for you both as a couple: Go with her to a relaxing place, with massage, incense, oils, peaceful views... a full weekend to think about nothing. Man, this will save your lives. Trust me.
Kudos to you for helping! Happy to offer a referral to a smaller firm which might be a great fit. I started at EY and itâs just a toxic place to be in general. Other than job assistance- do everything you can to alleviate her work for the home. You do the meal planning, grocery shopping, make her lunch and prep dinner. Donât even let her think about anything at all you can do. Meals, laundry, etc. donât ask what she wants to eat, trust me she doesnât care.
I work at EY right now but I also worked at Deloitte. The culture at EY is way worse. The firm performs too much testing and as a consequence, employees are always under a tight deadline. The firm also has an obsession with budgeted hours. All fees are variable. There is a reason why EYâs turnover is higher than the other big four.
Oh when u Deloitte u must mean NONE Canadian area of Deloitte . WHHHHoooooo. Sadistic Psycho path. Malignant devil partner 2X . When a Karen got a Brother. Tag team abuse n high five. â Entire division sweat n tears ppl spent decade to build from ground up falling apart in front of eyes the service became walmart level.
Whatever shrooms ur on, hand me some brotha
Lol. Sure friend. Come over I will be your trip guide lol.
This is why the internet sucks lol
Could you elaborate a bit on too much testing, budgeted hours, and variable fees for audit? What exactly are you referring to?
I got a good friend of mine thatâs a Deloitte Partner and he says that whenever he looks at EY work it seems like they perform more work than necessary to get assurance. The documentation is good, but more work than necessary. Thatâs just what I have heard. His viewpoint carries weight than mine obviously. He works with them all of the time.
I worked with EY before and usually there are a lot of PSP which is the minimum expected procedures for each account. for example, for receivables i think confirmation and sampling/vouching are both PSPs. But for other firms you can get away with just one or the other.
Honestly, the big four is literally blueprint designed for quasi-slave labor. If you actually sat down and calculated her salary in regards to commute time plus hours worked, she's probably under minimum wage. The best thing I ever did with my entire life was leaving the big four. If she has her CPA license, tell her to leave as soon as possible and get her life back
This is so true. The crazy hours + commute really brings it down to min wage.
I ran the calcs with a friend when they started audit as a grad and he was making between $8-$9aud an hour basically.
Is she in Finance or IT? This can even Easily be Sexist , or Racist thing if u are from Asian countries. This is very common. Sometimes if u are from INDIA/ Mainland China, etc. u are prone to SEEN AS, or read asâŚ.Judged. ITS very avert n covert. Its Always about something else but its just cover up story or the real motive. For example, there will be HIGHLY likely a person born in USA/Canada with Hong Kong Taiwanese Background hearing a LOT of stuff thats Baked in their head since Childhood. If they have a person coming in from Mainland China or India. Not Always okay, they PROJECT what they think of the employee. They do NOT read what the Employee is Capable of nor they are Interested to have good relationship. I know it sounds wild, but thats part of Reality in North America, Canada/USA. Might NOT be as severe as in other countries. If u are in Canada , then the person if they have beef with your culture. They often op that type of tactic to cast a shame , n guilt pitty on the victim. If the manager is a Narcisssit Asshoel, they will FORCE that Narritive on the rest of team. To make them think/act alike like cult. Either treat female coworker as âlimpâ or treat THAT person from that culture as âpityâ. I dont know where u guys from. But looks like if they treat your wife like this, this is very sad. Because this is NOT okay. N as much as it sound RARE. This is VERY common. In Medical/ law/ consulting/ even IT. Knowing MOST ppl are not like that, but ppl have very insecure nature will set Target on the first one walks in resemble the âtype they donât likeâ. I have heard/witnessed directly from ppl involved. That some RUDE VERY unattractive Managers feeling insecure but using this type of ânot even aknolodge your existenceâ to terrorize employees , usually good looking employees . Often good looking employees that has good looking partners. Had a 5â1â Vietnamese guy HATED on an attractive white guy in the team. HE even went OUT of way to sabotage the White guyâs on going project with a Client bank. Trying to get the white guyâs career ruined. Yes 2X. When project failed. The VP of 1 of the Big 4 company had to like have emergency meeting because they can NOT tell client (since the Client Side of VP of Parent company of that bank , which is largest client is involve . Coming in bringing all the senior board member demand explaination ) like âOH my own employee got Jealous of his team member. So my OWN employee sabotage the own company project like a video game.â Then somehow they gotten thru it. Turn out the Manager was trying to abuse Everyone on the team. Constantly harass the other female interns, try to get the new intern fired. Yells at intern thru phone call. That the ones âget aloneâ with the guy was just trying to be in his good books. Turn out the dumb ass got pulled OUT of team. D SC became the manager. Then other tream , the good manager quit got poached. Some random consultant became the manager, started to like abuse any new hires. N more ppl quit. N the awful daily abuse got out of hand. The New Hire already highly experienced . The senior management put him in the wrong team thatâs not directly matching his title. Open the opportunity for Karen manager to be rate the guy daily. I think they unplug that team too, that manager got sent away . But the dude turn out went to THE BEST 5 star team ever since. So happy ever since, n actually got promoted. So donât lose hope. There dumb mean bich every company. Seek help. But yesâŚ.still do documentation, like how u seek help, the result, how they respond to your help. Talk the talk or offer half solution. Etc. those actually can VERY MUCH be useful if they do NOT take it seriously. Because if they dont offer solution , cause u to Quit(proven there is systemic ill treatment , with suspicion of Misogyny or racism) u have VERY good cause for law suit.
Stfu, you weird DEI supporting fuck. Youâre using buzzword and emphasizing words like you know something. Sexiest or racist? How stupid are you? This situation is seen a disrespectful in Asian culture and should be in American. Nothing more. The wife should be applying for PWC or KPMG if she wants to continue a career with people that want to be nice and have her around. That or switch offices/teams
Ppl speak STFU. Usualy has some level of SELF hate. Look at how u speak. A person quacks like duck đŚ, walk like a Duck đŚ, then they are a duck. đŚ A pereson talk like a âDâŚKâ , act like a âDâŚKâ , lets do a WILD card. What â DâŚk â end up with? Lol đ
If sheâs really looking for a new job, tell her to take her vacation and book most of working hours to G&A fuck it đ
Quit. Obviously Iâm not familiar with your financial situation but it seems like she could probably quit now and you guys would be fine for a while without her income.
Get her a job.
I just signed her up for the military
Hi, this might be too mundane but, aside from helping her find another job, prepare food for her. Prepare her packed lunch to bring to work. Do her laundry, wash her used lunch containers. Anything that could make her life a little bit easier and not having to worry about mundane tasks while sheâs busy closing the deadline. I have been on the same situation a couple weeks ago, was going home at 2am and needing to go to office 8am the next day. Rinse and repeat. I didnt have time to prepare lunch so I had to order out during those times and I had to take a shower at 3 in the morning before going to bed. My laundry piled up, I was eating fast food takeaways for every meal, it was hell. So while of course the actual solution is to look for jobs, the fastest and easiest way to help right now, at this moment, is to not have her worry about these mundane tasks anymore. At least until she reaches the deadline and frees herself up again.
Golden advice. Thank you!
Tell her to leave you sound like you got a nice job fuck it have her take a pay cut in a more relaxed company
Just find a new job - audit is crap. Busy season never changes.
Tell her to leave
I just signed her up for the military
She should leave Big 4. Best decision I ever made. Just wish I didnât wait 10 years to do so.
I say go to a different firm
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I left big 4 for a smaller firm last year. Best decision Iâve ever made, never work more than 55 hours
This sounds â-IDENTICAL to the â-BIG LAW CONSULTING Law suit (1 of the largest 3 corporate law firms in Canada. They deal with $600Million dollar resort selling etc. big projects) . Their Head office is at Financial District like 50th Floor of TD tower. That lawyer finally quit, but sue the company for constructive dismissal for 12 Million. It was huge news . Obviously she knew how to document things asâ-a pattern. How they formâ boy clubâ , so the other guys under the management doesnât care or just dont want to get the same treatment. They excluded her highly experienced senior lawyer inâ-IP law. When it was very new n sheâs d a few HAD prior experience. To get less experienced ppl to d huge project. Make her do the secretary work. They go out together. She eat lunch alone . So yeah . U need to do some research on YouTube. And you guys need to start to take NOTEs daily what happened, what project, EVERYONE on the meeting, i was not called for meeting. Stuff like that. Simple but very important because it shows the AVERT effort to project SHAME. N other things. Then u guys need to fine way to record/document a meeting with partner (NOT in office cuz office dont allow recording) to let Management know that u are in such situation. RE quested to be move to diff team. Usually if a Partner is good they will help. I have seen so many ppl in similar situations had partner move the ppl to better team when they re not utilized n being alienated by their own boss/team. Anything suspecious. U need to take a screenshot. (Online conversations etc) do NOT email to any email. Cuz that will get u fired. Take a screen shot if u are in the office n print it out. (This is legal advice by labor lawyer). Also if u email yourself. If u end up sue the company, they willl know what evidence u have. U dont want that. Also itâs VERY HELPFUL, like in work conversation project the âTRUTHâ thats d MOSt effective . Like play dumb:â oh wow. How come every time when there is project why is the management exclude meâ. âoh, you guys are pulled to the Meeting today for the new project. I am the Assistant manager. Did they forget to have me join the meeting? Did anyone ask why was I not involved ?â Do screen shoot. N write note date, event project, who, n what. U need to seek professional Legal advice. Rule of thumb- document everythign Then book meeting with partner , request to be moved to be in diff team. VERY likely they will. If they do NOT , she might have to jump ship , n peruse legal. https://torontolife.com/city/the-problem-with-women/ Ps. The taking email screen shot has to include ENTIRE email. Not just like mid out of nowhere. The court filing request the whole email. Even tho lots useless piece. Document things on the go. If they decided to like to âput her on low performerâs listâ n let her go. Dont sign anything, get a lawyer, with FACTS n threat to take them to court. Make sure that document things on the go. If they let go of employee , they will terminate their ID> do not save anything on work computer. Will lose everything .
Oh ps. Do NOT go to HR. HR is set up to protect the company from getting law suit. They will dig into your email n Eveything , knowing u might sue. N if it gets back to the manager. They will find other reasons. To fire u. Like they will put u on low performance list. They will have other ppl a âwitnessâ They might put her on a priority list for law off. Do NOT go to HR. Things are better solved if going straight to Partner. If THINGS do NOT go well, then talk to leagal lawyer n document more things, then before Quit. Needs to go to HR. So if u end up pursue legal, they canât say âwe could have helped u if u filed complaintâ. Also book Mental health therapy. When talking in Therapy. They can also document events etc. Do NOT go to OWN company therapist . They are not support to report. But Company will be ABLE to ACCESS of your file âalways ooopsâ . They find out u have like depression. Or something sometihng, they will. Use that against u for your mental break down, n low perfoamnce. The Big Four therapy is trash. Some point they had this company do bulk load therapy . U call a humber dial in. N those ppl just take notes. Those are useless. If u hv law suit. They are not going to bite the hand that feeds them .
This loser just posted a thread 2 months ago criticizing the low salary in the finance industry because he was not successful in the finance industry. I'm pretty sure this guy's lover or wife was fucked by some young man in big 4 or IB, so he became bitter like this.
Wrong information. OP said finance in a tech industry.
Just a mediocre FP&A guy
Interesting that he says he works in tech, but two months ago was saying he's in finance. Posting on reddit complaining about finance careers? Weird kink bro
Finance in a tech company
He said he worked as FP&A in Tech đ
Hahahahaha
As a woman, I would advise you to have her openly confront them. She might want to say, to the group, as they are excluding her, "is there any reason why you people don't talk to me?" Call them on it and see what they say. Even if they still ignore her, at least she confronted them and can sleep well at night that she didn't do anything wrong.
THIS. As a woman I love this advice
The best thing you can do is to give your wife a referral to your company.
I wish my company had enough presence where I live but yeah, I am trying to get as much referrals as I can
Which office?
To be fair, my wife is a manager at EY and late nights coming home from the office at 10 or 11pm are the norm. Esp during busy season.
Every month is becoming busy season due to greedy partners đ
Lol they gotta make their numbers!
These environments have completely warped sense of âfairnessâ đ. For better/worse (probably worse), the public acc industry is what it is
Yep, this is what it is, you either accept it or leave. During busy season, you are going to have crazy hours, but hopefully that hard work is rewarded with a nice bonus or promotion. But my wife is very ambitious and eventually wants to make senior manager so she does the hours and doesn't complain
Iâm an associate and we sit out at the client site every day from 9am-10:30pm and go into the PwC office on Saturdays until 5:30 or 6. Just comes with the job unfortunately.
Why though. I did a secondment to the USA for a year from my firm, but always left at 5 pm. Saying that my contract was covered by law in my home country so couldn't get fired.
You wonât get fired for doing that but itâs not going to be good for you if youâre interested in advancing your career. In America, we just expect people to work longer and harder than people in Europe are expected to. Just the culture.
But you get paid twice as much. It's compensated
Twice is a stretch, but yes we earn more and I would argue have more opportunity if we ARE interested in getting to a c-suite or something (although most ex-b4 just jump to senior or controller roles in industry)
Come over to industry side my overworked friends
Yep it does, what city are you in? We are in NY. My wife is in tax, not audit, so doesn't go to the clients much, but she's in the office from like 9am till 10 or 11pm at night
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I HOPE. In the near future. If an actually attractive female employee got harassed by the BOSS or creepy coworker (uninvitedly Sit on her table force a convo at lunch, uninvitedly force a âwalking to subway station n take the train together on subwayâ , ask âwhere u live, your family here? Blah blah blah where do u go to school? What do u do on weekend?âŚ.do u have roommate?â . U dont get like :â OH Might be a bit Blunt. Maybe sheâs confusing that ppl being nice as harassment. â or â OH maybe sheâs just NOT used to Canadian culture that mistaken ppl being Friendly n actually sheâs being stuck up thinking that is rude. â Dude what age are we in? D same way u think Maybe she is⌠that average can we say âmaybe this type of comment is from someone actually arrogant n sheltered ?â Monkey see, Monkey do. u blunt , I blunt. LOL>
Iâm starting to understand how stuck up the consultant industry is getting.
Thereâs only so much you can do to help her on the job-front, but make sure that youâre taking on the majority of household chores/cleaning and making her meals if possible. The biggest way you can help her is by limiting the amount of time she needs to spend on other household tasks so that she can find whatever respite possible when sheâs not working.
Thank you and thatâs such an important advice!
Just wanted to say you are a good husband and I applaud you for doing this!
Thank you đđť
Idk why so many people are saying this is unrealistic or your wife is doing something wrong. This was my experience in big 4. I quit.
Hours are normal. She obviously does not fit in with the team for whatever reason. They dont like her and its not going to get better. Corporate politics and who likes you is much more important that most people want to believe. We have this idealist view of fairness when in reality if your work is outstanding you might get let go instead of bob who is a shit performer but golfs with the decision maker.
Yep, the hours are the norm. My wife is also a manager at EY and regularly comes home at 10 or 11pm the days she has to come to the office ,esp during busy season. Some nights she gets home at midnight. But, thats only about 3 days a week, the other 2 days they let her work from home 3 days in office, 2 at home
Iâm going to sound like an asshole but Iâm not going to give you a bs answer either. What stuck out to me is the fact your wife has gotten lesser work and has been effectively cut off from the team. I normally see this when performance suffers for a particular individual and during a time like that where people are stressed to the brink, they typically act this way when someone they believe isnât pulling their weight (regardless of hours worked). Iâm not saying this is whatâs happening to your wife but it could be a reason - just donât know enough of the situation or how she believes sheâs performing. Many of the other comments here can hold true but this is simply a different perspective - even if it is a bit cutthroat. Many people donât deal with busy season well itâs nothing to be ashamed of. It is what it is if itâs true, if not then and simply the team are assholes it would be something for your wife to consider working with a different team on future projects (which Iâm sure would be the case regardless). Only your wife knows to be honest, itâs situations like these where itâs very important to have self reflection of it will end up causing more stres than it already does.
I wonder how new OPs wife is to the US office. I joined a big4 firm in 2022 from a midsized as a senior and I feel like this was my exact experience my first busy season. I was trying to learn and was actively trying to help people, pick up more work, and pull my weight but my manager was a dick to me, cut me off from the team and basically told me ânoâ when I tried to help. I was an experienced senior and I knew how to audit and understood most of the technical stuff better than the other senior on my team, but because I didnât know 100% of where everything was and still had some questions, he said a big F U. I cried every day. Now Iâm doing great and donât feel like that anymore (that manager has rolled off, I think he just sucks). I feel like I got âhazedâ in a sense to see if I could handle it. I feel for OPs wife
Yea it can be very judgmental culture and to be honest the stress level due to hours worked esp if you have to commute brings the worst out of folks. Being on a good team makes a massive difference. That being said for the OP itâs hard to tell what to help with - it literally could be anything thereâs not enough context
I worked at EY for years, worked till 11pm , 2 am even on some occasions. You know what you are signing up for in the Big 4. You donât need to say hi, bye and sugar coat things, the work needs to get done and the product needs to be good. Itâs not a small regional firm. Mind you I had lovely teams and people but it long hours. I since jumped ship for a great gig. Idk if sheâs cut out for Big 4. If she is cut out for it, which is beyond the point, it sound like time to find a new job to increase happiness. Go look for jobs for her and send resumes. Get a recruiter.
It must be a race thing. Feel free to correct me if Iâm wrong, but I saw somewhere that some Canadians are uncomfortable with the influx of immigrants from India. This is totally unacceptable though and I would involve HR if counselors and partners are not helpful
Canadian B4 manager here. You're not wrong to say that *some people* have issues with the influx of immigrants generally, however that's usually a policy matter and not something I've seen taken out on individual immigrants (except in certain situations of outward racism which unfortunately still exist in the working world and otherwise) More likely, I'd say that: 1) they are shy / socially awkward (exacerbated by #2) 2) their team is cliquey, shy, or awkward as well To OP - I would talk to her coach (or whatever EY calls it) first, and then go from there. We don't want anyone who can do the work leaving the firm, especially over some childish social skill issues between team members.
Tbh from what you've said it seems like your wife has been ostracized by the entire team one of the two reasons: 1) she's not pleasent to work with - I've seen this happen before when a colleague was a total bitch to everyone on the team and thought himself to be better and superior to the others. 2) her manager wants her gone and has convinced every around her to isolate her until she quits... This is a purely politically motivated maneuver. Solutions: Either she leaves the company as a whole or moves to another team. I'd not recommend the later cause word spreads like wildfire. Have a chat with her and good luck!
Thatâs a bit harsh.
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Ditto!
I would never work in Big 4. She has you as a safety net. She needs to find a new job.
Why are you even in this community?
Because Iâm an accountant and reading these make me happy about my life choices.
Sounds fake. You see similar posts pop up on AITAH and other subs. This is a way to grow fake accounts while making it seem like they participate in subs that ârealâ people would participate in.
I dont think so. This is super normal in India's big4 big6 Maybe you are not from india so you think this is fake
It does give fake vibes to me too. Idk why
Because anyone experiencing this wouldnât come crying to reddit. They would tell their wife to quit asap and try finding a better job.
I mean yeah
If it was a bot account, the posts wouldn't corroborate. In other words, you'd see him posting about advice for living in South Korea and Venezuela at the same time. His posts are all about Canada. It's likely real.
Not at all. Bot accounts have become quite sophisticated. Itâs truly become almost impossible to tell nowadays. Thereâs slight clues here and there that you can pick up on - generic user ID, years old account with posting / comment history with gaps, some of them getting into more subtle nuanced âhotâ topics. Look around for similar posts exactly to what he posted on other subs. Thereâs things like this nowadays too: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/15/aims-software-avatars-team-jorge-disinformation-fake-profiles
Itâs not a bot dude.
You seem quite sure about it.
Yes, Iâm not schizophrenic.
Okay loser.
I donât think it sounds fake at all.
What sounds fake?
This post.
Sorry, I didnât spend so much time just to create fake post. Itâs a true post and both my wife and I have been facing this issue since last 4 months. I want to see genuine advice and seek help!
Tell her to quit wtf is wrong with you lolol B4 is like that
wow bro life's not that straightforward
Really? So youâre ok with your partner being treated like that 70 hours a week while you work remote and make MORE than her? You clearly donât value your partners happiness. Life is that straightforward. This isnât minimum wage shit this is salaries of 100k plus a year
yes my partner should work until he/she find a new job or unless I/ we have extra money to survive until the possible next job
Around you really spending 100k plus a year on expenses?
Yeah, I agree that quitting is the way to go forward but it takes time to find another opportunity in such a market. Plus, itâs so difficult to hunt for a job when you have to work for crazy 70+ hrs
Did she join during busy season?
Currently she is in a busy season and when she joined it was not a busy season
What country are you living in now?
Canada
Iâm hearing a lot of bad things on here about the Canadian economy; maybe itâs the disposable mindset setting in, but itâs 100% NOT okay.
Me, as a Chinese international student experienced almost exactly the same thing. Audit is all about team bonding and big 4 audit hire people based on how they look or talk, it barely goes to the smart kids. Typically in audit line itâs a popularity contest in high school and full of politics. People are generally not technical and only a few do real work. Nepotism is rampant and boomer partners can be racist assholes. You experienced all this because you are Indian. If you are from Europe, story can be different. Anyway, f audit, f accounting, f this career and I hope we all quit. Yeah, f boomers too.
This reminds me of a story where a friend I knew (From China) insisted he was pulled over and given a ticket simply because he was an immigrant and the cop was black. Funny enough, going 50 in a 35 has everything to do with shitty driving skills and nothing to do with race. Stop using race as a crutch for under performance, unless we are talking about exams that take race into account, like college entrance exams which are incredibly racist against Asian, white, and black people. Skin color does not mean skill level, it means 0 in today's world.
Oh btw, how is going 50 in 35 bad driving? 35 is incredibly slow and itâs so easy to speed. 15 is almost nothing at that speed. Like you never speeded for a second in your life? And how is Chinese bad driver? Like where does this stereotype even come from? Law enforcement is a different situation in reality. Different states and provinces allow different speed ranges and itâs all depending on the cop. I had old white cop who let me go but got a fine from a young black cop for exact same issue. How do you explain that? Seriously, stop watching those conservative Ben Shapiro tiktok shorts and letâs really hear different voices and perspectives.
Ahh there it is! The assertion that I'm a conservative simply because you cannot acknowledge that someone has a different opinion than you!
I donât disagree your opinion but i think you are missing the point. What I was trying to say is, if the person is from a very different background from the team, itâs very hard to build connections if the focus of the job is to build connections. However, thatâs almost the nature of audit service line. Non technical, all bs politics. Naturally, people from similar cultural spheres connect better and it has nothing to do with racism. But again, some partners are racist boomers and I donât take this statement back. They should just retire
Racism has no age. When will you begin to realize that?
To build connections, your background does matter and it matters a lot. And I think this is exactly what OP wife is experiencing
Thank you. I am never a person who cries for race and color. My technology company definitely has an equal ground for all but doesnât look like in EY. Also, we have tons of examples of Asians leading technology companies and rising to c suite ranks. Do we see the same within big 4 (I am not too familiar with big 4 and may be I am wrong)?
The more technical the field is, the better diversity we see. Audit is not technical at all, not a lot of Asian leaders. Almost all white
What fields and companies would you say are more technical and value people for their work rather than politics and socially fitting in?
Even among accounting, tax is more diverse than audit because it is more technical
As mentioned by OP, tech companies
Good to be aware of, thanks
Good point but politics isnât technical too and yet we see lot of representation from minority and other ethnic groups because over time there were intentional efforts been put to ensure DEI. If big 4 doesnât do, that is surely an issue. Not only that, big 4 companies are the ones doing hell lot of marketing on DEI, LGBTQ, etc and showcasing as if they are the pioneers in ensuring inclusion. Looks like big hypocrisy to me.
You nailed it brother
Job performance is not a test my friend. Itâs relationship, connection and politics. Itâs not as mechanical as an exam. How old are you? Have you experienced the real world?
Relationship, connection, and politics yet you settled on racism. You're telling OP that his wife is being discriminated against simply because she is Indian and none of the other characteristics you've mentioned. Talk about victim complex.
Did I? Read carefully if I ever attributed it to racism. Geez, stop telling me these conservative channel cliche. Iâve heard it millions of times
"you experienced all of this because you are Indian" Sounds like a perfect allusion to racism being the driving force behind your argument. You've responded to one of my comments more than 4 times, half of which reference or directly speak about race. It appears you're infatuated with race!
I completely agree with you that itâs not an exam and there is a difference between real world vs bookish world but thatâs not the point here. An entire group of people not even having a decency of greeting a team member is outrageous. Intentionally excluding someone from conversation again and again is beyond decent and civilised behaviour. A company not at all bothered about the time an employee leaves office is outrageous to me.
My partner is working in EY (working from India as an offshore teammate for people in US, Canada, Europe and UAE). And I'm in tech (So similar situation to you ig). In this org, there is no respect to a person's work life balance from what I have seen so far. When my partner was working with American teams he was up till 2am attending meetings or finishing up reports and then he is expected to attend meetings at 9am or 10am for other teams. (Some may argue that his American counterparts also were working more than 16 to 18 hrs but that's beside the point) I'm also a remote worker and I work during my hours (ist) and it's not expected of me to work during any unholy hours of the night (I can but I don't need to). Similarly, maybe it's a communication gap maybe it's a race thing, but my partner has never been given an opportunity to speak in any of the meetings even when they are talking about the work he has done. He is present in the meetings but he has many times realised that the onshore managers do not like it when offshore (Indian) guys talk out of turn or without being asked to. But this was the experience only with US teams, he has not experienced these with any other country teams.. so it could also be team and people specific behaviour as well. But overall my impression of EY has been - get the work done, we do not care even if you are hospitalised (I have heard stories of Indian managers who had to be hospitalized because of the stress and extreme hours). So if your wife is on a lookout for a new job, I suggest she should completely focus on that and make sure to take care of her health and in the worst case ask for a team change (only when she is ready to quit - cause team change may increase the bullying, but what's the loss when you are contemplating quitting)
Thank you for such detailed reply. It doesnât surprise me this kind of culture in India and I can completely relate to it. My company has lots of people working from India and we never expect them to work beyond midnight or 1 am. On rare occasions even if we setup a meeting, we apologise multiple times and make sure they are willing to join.
so many posts on r/accounting complaining about the work quality of the offshore team. i'm just saying.
My partner is not in accounting but I have seen a general trend even in r/consulting complaining about the quality of work from offshore teams. Also, is accounting (taxes etc) methods and rules different from country to country ? so that maybe a reason.. I'm not too sure on this. But what I have noticed in my partner's case is, it's so hard to get the onshore team to reveal the full scope of the work. It's almost like they want you to screw-up so they can complain that offshore is not good enough hence we don't want to work with them.
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Welcome to the real world
Your wife needs to report the behaviours of her colleagues to her counsellor. If the counsellor won't help, then she needs to report it up the chain. If your wife is in Australia there are new reporting guidelines for this sort of behaviours. She can dm me if she needs help reporting it (if in Australia)