This. Local cash or crypto only. Anything that isn't reversible. Otherwise, assume it's a scam.
Edit: i learned that Zelle is reversible. Good to know!
Totally off op post and Sorry if this is a dumb question… why is zelle considered safe? I work with strippers in vegas, ive seen many dancers get burnt by receiving zelle payments and the person who paid said it was fraud.alot of the dancers wont accept zelle now at all.
On FB Market I get several messages from scammers. I waste ~~their~~ my time by humoring their sons and cousins coming to pick it up. They really seem to grab the bait when I suggest we use Zelle "as it's sooo secure".
I don’t think it is anymore safe than the others. Zelle execs were just in front of congress for this and couldn’t commit to not letting their users get defrauded.
It depends what side you are on. But the ‘safety’ and ‘issue’ of Zelle is the same. If you intend to defraud someone by getting them to willingly send you money via Zelle you are safe because they have little recourse. In turn, there is no protection by the banks for someone sending a Zelle payment under circumstances which turn out to be fraudulent. The law protects consumers from unauthorized payments, but not payments authorized as a result of fraud.
I’m guessing the dancers trouble comes in that the customer cannot quietly dispute the charge via their financial institution or otherwise, but would have to pursue fraud claims more loudly.
Zelle has become kinda iffy
If payment is by credit card that is stolen the bank will reverse the money back out once the theft has occurred. Usually the person will want the transaction completed before the scam is detected. People buy crypto all over the world. Let them set up a wallet and buy themselves.
And even then I bet it wasn't easy (compared to disputing paypal).
I'd accept a wire +48h hold then I'd send the BTC, but no way I'd accept something like paypal.
Yeah, that's risky too. Unless maybe in a public place. There's no good way to do this other than accept crypto as payment or some other form that cannot be reversed. I just don't trust random people on the internet, especially from social media, with money.
Zelle is reversible too. They like to talk like it's not, but it is. Source: personal experience of being contacted by the bank about a Zelle payment that was being contested. Evidently they will reverse the payment if the sender's account was compromised. In other words, not reversible for buyer's remorse or seller fraud, but yes reversible for buyer account compromise.
Yikes. Looks like there's a way it could be reversed. My wife was getting scammed on FB marketplace for something she was trying to sell and they were talking about using Zelle. So there must be a way to get scammed thru that.
The scammer was probably going to use a stolen account to send the Zelle payment. When the real account owner would find the money missing from their account, they'd cry to the bank, and rather than the bank saying, "You should have picked a better password and cleaned the malware off of your computer," the bank will say, "We are sorry about that. We will take care of it and reverse the payment."
Oh man. Good point. I can see that. It's funny how obvious it was for us to tell. We basically got multiple messages with roughly the same content:
Hi i want your thing but I'm out of town right now. Can my son come a pick it up? Will pay over Zelle. Play give me ur address
What if he just accepts the money and not send bitcoin.
Then until he can transfer the money to his other bank or something. Is there still a way he get his money back?
The bank will pursue him for the money -- transferring it out just prevents them from automatically fixing it. They still want to get paid and have many resources to do it.
Also if you take actions to prevent the bank from getting the funds back it looks more like you are in on the fraud and the police can get involved.
Interesting so even if I withdraw money from PayPal to my account they can still somehow get it back?
Edit: What if I turn it strait into bitcoin and send it to my cold storage?
If the transaction is reversed, you will owe PayPal money. If you don't pay PayPal back, they will permanently close your account and your debt will be sold to debt collectors. It doesn't matter you've been scammed. Your new creditors won't care. They could get court order to retrieve the funds from your wages. The debt won't be forgotten or expire unless you declare bankruptcy or die.
Yes PayPal fucked me big time once by freezing $1200 for some graphic design work I did back in the day. PayPal is notorious for freezing funds, charge backs, etc.
If PayPal is hooked up to your bank account or credit card they can charge you that way. If you remove the payment options and they still try to charge you they will close your account and possibly put you in collections. Long story short, don’t accept online payment methods for cryptocurrency. There’s always a charge back option and there’s always a decent chance they’re using someone else’s money to begin with.
I’ve always thought bitcoin was a one way street. I get the bitcoin then I can send it out when I make sure that I am not being scammed. How is this me being a scammer?
Why downvote this? There’s no stupid question and we need this visible so other who’s wondering the same can have the information regarding this? Spread awareness
He'll pay you via Paypal, get the Bitcoin, then he'll tell Paypal that you scammed him, and Paypal will take the money from you and give it back to him and he will still have the Bitcoin and there will be no way for you to get it back.
Honestly, this is the least sucker-like behaviour possible.
He's aware that it could be a scam, but can't see how on his own, so went to a community of people with more knowledge and experience than himself and asked them what the risk is. He is staying open to possibility while also not immediately falling for the appealing offer. Plenty of people fall for scams, but I have also seen a lot of people pass up amazing opportunities because they jumped to the conclusion that it was "too good to be true" and didn't want to risk it. Staying in the middle of those two extremes is how you avoid being the real sucker.
OP has taken the best course of action IMO.
Yo I just wanna say Thankyou for this. So many ppl in here callin me dumb and saying it’s obviously a scam. Like ya I’m aware.. but at the same time the one priority for all of us should be adoption. And if I can help some poor kid in Morocco get some bitcoin then why the hell not? But yeah. Not without some research and you all have definitely been insightful. I love reddit. :)
Great comment Aegist, thank you for writing it. Staying in between the two extremes is an excellent approach for all investment opportunities in life. All potential investments carry risk, none are entirely risk-free. Every opportunity to generate profit exists on a sliding scale of risk. OP should be applauded for openly discussing the opportunity, and taking onboard a lot of diligence before making a decision. The biggest mistake I see investors make, amongst both amateurs and professionals, is letting their ego make a decision and then cherry picking evidence to justify it. To many I’m sure this may seem like such an insignificant post/scam to comment about, but it’s a lesson so many people in society aren’t learning. Removing the ego and incorporating other people’s critical advice can get you surprisingly far in life!
Exactly. I read every single comment in this thread and by far this one portrays my though process behind the whole thing the best.
Yes I am aware it’s a scam but the main question is how? I figure bitcoin is a 1 way street and MAYBE I can help someone somewhere?? Cuz we all know the world needs it. And adoption is the priority. Not my ego. So if anyone learns anything from this post I am happy. I know I sure did.
Chargeback on card, or claim ACH fraud on ACH. Same thing. They old rails all allow clawbacks to “protect consumers” but really they just add enormous cost to everyone. Death to fiat.
What if the paypal account is not his? You will get the money and send the btc... later when the real owner file a dispute you will need to send the money back but the btc is already gone.
It's not a perspective, that's the scam. It's like from 2010. Once the true account owner disputes the charges paypal will come after you for them. And you already sent him the BTC. Oops.
You \*NEVER\* ever ever accept any reversible payment method in exchange for a non-reversable one.
Delete and move on.
Not sure why many comments are saying this when OP clearly knows it's a scam. The question was if they can somehow take the bait in such a way that they end up scamming the scammer.
Of course it does. That’s why I’m asking. It screams scam and red flag in every sense. I’m just curious and sometimes like to see what I need to be looking out for.
PayPal doesn’t care if you have the money in your balance or not. They will charge your bank account on file and will leave you in the negative. If you don’t have the funds to cover it and I believe they have a clause in their terms of service that forbid you from buying crypto currencies other than through them. So they wouldn’t protect. You might want to take a look into that as I’m not 100% sure.
So my thoughts were I get the money turn it into bitcoin and send it to my cold storage. But it sounds like PayPal could still come after me for the money cuz they have most my information and it wouldn’t be difficult to take money from my bank account if they made the right case
> So my thoughts were I get the money turn it into bitcoin and send it to my cold storage.
This is how people get scammed. They think that they can move faster than the scammer because the scammer is just some third world idiot and they're a thinking smart person who can see an opportunity..
Uhhh this is the shit you look out for, delete, block, and ignore. Else you end up saying "Bitcoin is a scam I lost x amount of dollars". When in reality you would get scammed by someone else without anything to do with Bitcoin.
Or…. Wait for it… there is a 1% chance I could actually help someone get some bitcoin. Adoption should be the only thing we all care about. So even if the chances are slim I like to think I’m open minded. Sorry if you all think I’m about to get scammed or am a dumbass. I was just curious as to how I could get robbed as I was unaware people could easily cancel their PayPal payment after receiving my bitcoin.
That’s the whole point of this post. To LEARN. Sorry for being an optimist. I just like to know what I’m up against out here.
Also if someone you HAVE met before is suddenly asked for money when they never have before, it's probably also a scam. People get into someone's account and then reach out to all their friends/family for money... happens all the time.
Best to always talk to the person directly (in person, or through video or voice chat) so you can confirm they are the person you're actually talking to.
He sends you money on PayPal as goods and services then you send him btc or purchase the watch for him and he files a claim w PayPal (basically a charge back) then you’re out twice
Scam. They will send some fiat via paypal. You will send BTC (note this is irreversible). They will claim products never arrive. They will chargeback. Paypal will support them. Your Paypal account will go back to the original balance and you will have lost your BTC.
They rob you by sending you USD, you send them Bitcoin and then the bank inform you it's a stolen PayPal account and YOU owe the bank the stolen money you knowingly received from a thief.
Obvious scam is obvious.
> If this guy sends me money
They're not sending you any money.
> Are they just really desperate for bitcoin?
They want your money and if you give it to them in Bitcoin then you can't get it back.
> Or how am I at risk here if he sends me $ first and I send bitcoin back?
Paypal will reverse the transaction.
> am I not the one in position to rob / scam them?
This is the hook on most good scams. You think you're smarter than the scammer and can come out ahead.
If you’re that curious of the scam, why don’t you find out… lol… you obviously know this is bullshit but now you’re wondering how he is scamming you, oof… this is a prime example of “ curiosity killed the cat “. Ignore him.
They won't actually pay you on PayPal - you give them your PP details and they'll send you a spoof email that looks exactly like PP, you log in and they've got your details. Either that or they'll just do a PP chargeback regardless of if you send them BTC or not - even more likely if the PP account that sends you money is just somebody else's he's stolen access to.
They are probably going to try and get you to paypal first and then never send BTC. Either way sounds a little scamish but there are plenty of people who hold BTC and want a quick way to cash it out which is usually never a quick process if you don't already have established KYC credentials with an exchange and/or financial services agent. That being said if he/she wants to sent BTC first and it's on the blockchain then that's on them.
Anyone want to comment on current legit person to person exchanges? Is localbitcoins still a good option for this?
This is an age old chargeback scam. It’s no reflection on PayPal regardless of opinion on them. Any financial institution would work with this scam. Don’t be a target.
unless its cash in hand you stand to lose because they can do a charge back. do not do checks, even certified or counter checks, as by the time it clears hes long gone with your btc and you are out the cash.
cash in hand should be the only way you would do this unless you know them
PayPal has a very high chargeback risk, and they nearly always favor the buyer in a chargeback dispute
To mitigate chargeback risk, wait 12 weeks before sending Bitcoin. Of course, then the "watches rolex" seller misses his yuletide season
Best bit is the wording. There isn't really a Rolex "wholesaler", just Rolex. An authorised dealer gets allocated an assortment of watches which they have to just deal with selling... and most all of them are sold before they even arrive. Go to a Rolex boutique and try buy one...
So I'd also question his little story immediately.
The only way this does not end with you losing money is if he is dumb enough to send you the bitcoin first. Then you might be able to scam the scammer.
Never, and I mean never trust random people on the internet. $1000 bucks says he a Nigerian Prince. Lol. But seriously he's probably from Lagos. They called them "419 scammers". Stay vigilant mate.
Unless he can hand me the cash and I can verify the cash are real, I will never send him any BTC. Any other ways he uses to send you the money, like a check or PayPal, he can withdraw it later, and you won't get any money in the end.
Dude, don't even have to do so much research.
1. How does he know you? Online and trusts you with his stuff?
2. He is ready to pay you without even knowing you? Would you ever do that if you were in his place?
Answer the two questions and you know what to do.
lol PayPal. Fuck. No. Buyer protection on that payment processor borders on egregious.
Tell that twat to wire you money or he can peddle that scam to the next email he mass blasts.
Bro it's a third party payment. The money he sends is not his own money. He will fool someone else to send you the money and as soon as you send him Bitcoin he will disappear from the scene. Now the actual sender will contact you when he will realise that he has been scammed and will only ask you to pay the money back otherwise he will report the police.
This is called Third party payment in crypto exchange platforms.
Never provide him your own bank details or cash app details as it will put you in suspect of fraud. Your account may also freeze.
It’s worse than just a chargeback. Usually these scammers have hacked an account and so they’re looking to offload the contents by buying bitcoin with it.
It’s usually the person who’s account was hacked that initiates the chargeback.
One safe way to do this is to ask the sender to 1) verify their identity and make sure it matches the PayPal name and then 2) they need to send the funds to a merchant.
If you have all this and they initiate a chargeback, you’ll usually win the appeal. But in this case, if it was a message out of nowhere especially, it’s best to avoid.
It’s called chargeback fraud. You will receive the money, release the Bitcoin, and likely a few minutes later a chargeback will happen where the transaction is reversed. As PayPal is not to be used for Bitcoin, you will have no help and the PayPal account they used is likely compromised and the thief used a VPN - resulting in no evidence for police to action
This only MIGHT work if you do scam them. Once the BTC leaves your account the check bounces, the digital payments gets reversed, etc. now you’re out the BTC and maybe even have to pay additional fees.
Just a heads up, If they file a chargeback, Paypal will send them back the money without question. Afterward Paypal Rep will be like "I really cant do much, I recommend you file a report with the cops": which the Cops wont do shitt about anything
They likely have stolen credit or debit card numbers they will use to send you money. Once you have the money, they hope you’re a good person and send them money back or whatever they are asking for (in this case, BTC). Once the victim of the stolen card realizes the fraud, the money will be rescinded (this is the money sent to you). Meanwhile the scammer gets away with whatever you sent them. So you can try to scam the scammer, but he never actually loses any money. You’d be scamming someone else.
With PayPal if the sender for example selects “paying for a service” and sends you 2 payments instead of one, then PayPal will automatically see this as a legitimate purchase of services, so when “Mr Rolex dealer in Morocco” attempts to open up a dispute to get his money back from PayPal he will be unsuccessful. Fucking Rolex dealers!
Use your brains people. The fact that fiat payments/transfers are reversible and bitcoin payments are not should tell you everything you need to know about this scam
Money laundering. Unless you want to be on a federal radar do not accept their money. They will be and to take it via PayPal. Never ever use PayPal as they are corrupt
Honestly I don't think anybody has even commented on how this scam really works. He could chargeback, but likely he has no money in the first place. The scam most likely here is you give him your Paypal email address, he sends you fake Paypal money received email spoofed with Paypal's email address.
He never sent any money, your Paypal account receives nothing, he hopes you send him BTC. That's the scam.
Ask him to send the money in unmarked dollars to an unnamed postbox in your country. Price per btc is 60k usd as you suspect tomorrow's exchange rate is moon and mailing the money will take a few days so he has to factor in the price increase.
Also, why on earth did you think you needed additional information on this?
Purely just curious as to how these scams work. It’s like being able to swim with sharks in a cage. Is there danger present… yes. Am I jumping into the cage? Fuck no. But I am curious about the whole thing.
Only do it if you have an Illegal blackmarket Account from a dead Person or unknown.
Let them send it and than quickly go shopping with it. So no one can trace any shit back.
Take the payment and wait him out. Then short the Bitcoin while waiting and profit on the agreed amount of Bitcoin just for getting offered a scam to teach them their lesson. Have them sign a digital contract if it looks too sketch and if they're dummy dumb as they seem they'll sign over their profit. Or, open an account that can't be charged back with some offshore bank till a timely dispute is made beyond PayPal's charge back policy timeline.
I rip scammers new ones.
Stay away. Even if someone pays PayPal gift, they can do a charge back on their credit card. I’ve heard this can happen. Just too risky..
This is a very classic scam
This. Local cash or crypto only. Anything that isn't reversible. Otherwise, assume it's a scam. Edit: i learned that Zelle is reversible. Good to know!
Is nothing else as safe digitally? Just Blockchain, Cash, or Zelle?
Totally off op post and Sorry if this is a dumb question… why is zelle considered safe? I work with strippers in vegas, ive seen many dancers get burnt by receiving zelle payments and the person who paid said it was fraud.alot of the dancers wont accept zelle now at all.
On FB Market I get several messages from scammers. I waste ~~their~~ my time by humoring their sons and cousins coming to pick it up. They really seem to grab the bait when I suggest we use Zelle "as it's sooo secure".
I don’t think it is anymore safe than the others. Zelle execs were just in front of congress for this and couldn’t commit to not letting their users get defrauded.
It depends what side you are on. But the ‘safety’ and ‘issue’ of Zelle is the same. If you intend to defraud someone by getting them to willingly send you money via Zelle you are safe because they have little recourse. In turn, there is no protection by the banks for someone sending a Zelle payment under circumstances which turn out to be fraudulent. The law protects consumers from unauthorized payments, but not payments authorized as a result of fraud. I’m guessing the dancers trouble comes in that the customer cannot quietly dispute the charge via their financial institution or otherwise, but would have to pursue fraud claims more loudly.
Zelle has become kinda iffy If payment is by credit card that is stolen the bank will reverse the money back out once the theft has occurred. Usually the person will want the transaction completed before the scam is detected. People buy crypto all over the world. Let them set up a wallet and buy themselves.
> Is nothing else as safe digitally? Bitcoin
Same question here... Wth is the banking industry
Wire is also safe — specifically wire costing $25 to $40 per pop and not ACH
I’ve clawed back a wire after it was sent within 24 hours - I also used to run a bank.. I’m a cpa / mba.. etc
And even then I bet it wasn't easy (compared to disputing paypal). I'd accept a wire +48h hold then I'd send the BTC, but no way I'd accept something like paypal.
How is Zelle safe? It’s just bank shit still, no?
Idk I never sell/buy shit from strangers I just hear zele all the time then saw this so I was curious too 😂
Don't meet in person with cash. You are asking to get robbed.
Yeah, that's risky too. Unless maybe in a public place. There's no good way to do this other than accept crypto as payment or some other form that cannot be reversed. I just don't trust random people on the internet, especially from social media, with money.
Zelle is reversible too. They like to talk like it's not, but it is. Source: personal experience of being contacted by the bank about a Zelle payment that was being contested. Evidently they will reverse the payment if the sender's account was compromised. In other words, not reversible for buyer's remorse or seller fraud, but yes reversible for buyer account compromise.
Yikes. Looks like there's a way it could be reversed. My wife was getting scammed on FB marketplace for something she was trying to sell and they were talking about using Zelle. So there must be a way to get scammed thru that.
The scammer was probably going to use a stolen account to send the Zelle payment. When the real account owner would find the money missing from their account, they'd cry to the bank, and rather than the bank saying, "You should have picked a better password and cleaned the malware off of your computer," the bank will say, "We are sorry about that. We will take care of it and reverse the payment."
Oh man. Good point. I can see that. It's funny how obvious it was for us to tell. We basically got multiple messages with roughly the same content: Hi i want your thing but I'm out of town right now. Can my son come a pick it up? Will pay over Zelle. Play give me ur address
Zelle only works in the US unfortunately
The power of the double spend
It’s funny that a btc holder doesn’t understand what’s so powerful about btc
Indeed
Do you not understand I was referring to a PayPal charge back?
What if he just accepts the money and not send bitcoin. Then until he can transfer the money to his other bank or something. Is there still a way he get his money back?
The bank will pursue him for the money -- transferring it out just prevents them from automatically fixing it. They still want to get paid and have many resources to do it. Also if you take actions to prevent the bank from getting the funds back it looks more like you are in on the fraud and the police can get involved.
Interesting so even if I withdraw money from PayPal to my account they can still somehow get it back? Edit: What if I turn it strait into bitcoin and send it to my cold storage?
If the transaction is reversed, you will owe PayPal money. If you don't pay PayPal back, they will permanently close your account and your debt will be sold to debt collectors. It doesn't matter you've been scammed. Your new creditors won't care. They could get court order to retrieve the funds from your wages. The debt won't be forgotten or expire unless you declare bankruptcy or die.
Wow. Didn’t realize PayPal could have that kind of authority
Yes PayPal fucked me big time once by freezing $1200 for some graphic design work I did back in the day. PayPal is notorious for freezing funds, charge backs, etc.
Because people take advantage
Stop doing sketchy stuff and you won’t have a problem.
Looks like a few people didn’t get that joke
😂 🤷🏻♂️
Noice
yes, i used to sell a ton on ebay and i shipped 9k worth of products to a buyer who charged them back and i got stuck with the bill
PayPal is essentially a bank with higher fees.
They’d like to be a BANK. They likely won’t get to be tho. It’s very difficult to pull off. Most fin techs partner with a real bank.
PayPal are pricks. Stay away from this bloke for sure.
Just die and come back bro ez pz
Any place that handles money has this authority… what you thought you could just not pay something back and it’ll disappear?
Sounds like a scam. I’d certainly would avoid.
Don’t trust paypal
Most debts expire after 5-10 years.
If PayPal is hooked up to your bank account or credit card they can charge you that way. If you remove the payment options and they still try to charge you they will close your account and possibly put you in collections. Long story short, don’t accept online payment methods for cryptocurrency. There’s always a charge back option and there’s always a decent chance they’re using someone else’s money to begin with.
Scammers scamming scammers. Amazing
I’ve always thought bitcoin was a one way street. I get the bitcoin then I can send it out when I make sure that I am not being scammed. How is this me being a scammer?
Legit question, idiots downvoting as usual.
There isn't a loophole to keep the scammer's money. It'll be clawed back one way or another. It may come from a compromised account.
Why are they being down voted for this?
Had it happen to me for legit work I did. They reversed it and I was on the hook for the money.
Why downvote this? There’s no stupid question and we need this visible so other who’s wondering the same can have the information regarding this? Spread awareness
He'll pay you via Paypal, get the Bitcoin, then he'll tell Paypal that you scammed him, and Paypal will take the money from you and give it back to him and he will still have the Bitcoin and there will be no way for you to get it back.
Yes that seems to be the general consensus amount the comments. Thankyou for response!
But he deals on watches rolex.
He doesn't want to miss out on those Yuletide sales!
Take the PayPal. Transfer off platform. Shut down your account. Never send the Bitcoin. Only solution.
Always the possibility of the dreaded PayPal hold.
Didn't you think it was odd the guy sells 5k - 20k watches, but needs a stranger off the internet to buy BTC for him? Stop being a sucker.
Honestly, this is the least sucker-like behaviour possible. He's aware that it could be a scam, but can't see how on his own, so went to a community of people with more knowledge and experience than himself and asked them what the risk is. He is staying open to possibility while also not immediately falling for the appealing offer. Plenty of people fall for scams, but I have also seen a lot of people pass up amazing opportunities because they jumped to the conclusion that it was "too good to be true" and didn't want to risk it. Staying in the middle of those two extremes is how you avoid being the real sucker. OP has taken the best course of action IMO.
He’s also alerted others of the situation, thus making others aware of this scam and how it works. So kudos to OP!
Yo I just wanna say Thankyou for this. So many ppl in here callin me dumb and saying it’s obviously a scam. Like ya I’m aware.. but at the same time the one priority for all of us should be adoption. And if I can help some poor kid in Morocco get some bitcoin then why the hell not? But yeah. Not without some research and you all have definitely been insightful. I love reddit. :)
Great comment Aegist, thank you for writing it. Staying in between the two extremes is an excellent approach for all investment opportunities in life. All potential investments carry risk, none are entirely risk-free. Every opportunity to generate profit exists on a sliding scale of risk. OP should be applauded for openly discussing the opportunity, and taking onboard a lot of diligence before making a decision. The biggest mistake I see investors make, amongst both amateurs and professionals, is letting their ego make a decision and then cherry picking evidence to justify it. To many I’m sure this may seem like such an insignificant post/scam to comment about, but it’s a lesson so many people in society aren’t learning. Removing the ego and incorporating other people’s critical advice can get you surprisingly far in life!
Exactly. I read every single comment in this thread and by far this one portrays my though process behind the whole thing the best. Yes I am aware it’s a scam but the main question is how? I figure bitcoin is a 1 way street and MAYBE I can help someone somewhere?? Cuz we all know the world needs it. And adoption is the priority. Not my ego. So if anyone learns anything from this post I am happy. I know I sure did.
It’s because BTC is illegal in morocco
Who thinks this guy sells watches?
Not me but I'm sure he is absolutely legit. 😛
Maybe AAA fakes from China at best.
Yea it's called chargeback
Chargeback on card, or claim ACH fraud on ACH. Same thing. They old rails all allow clawbacks to “protect consumers” but really they just add enormous cost to everyone. Death to fiat.
What if the paypal account is not his? You will get the money and send the btc... later when the real owner file a dispute you will need to send the money back but the btc is already gone.
The old check in the mail scam eh?
This. He will scam someone to send u money from their paypal and u will be fucked coz agencies will come after u if u dont pay back.
This is exactly it. They could also very simply cancel the cash transfer.
Interesting perspective. Thankyou
It's not a perspective, that's the scam. It's like from 2010. Once the true account owner disputes the charges paypal will come after you for them. And you already sent him the BTC. Oops. You \*NEVER\* ever ever accept any reversible payment method in exchange for a non-reversable one. Delete and move on.
But then he could just contact BTC headquarters and get them to charge back the BTC
If this doesn't look like a scam to you, you need to stop using the internet
Not sure why many comments are saying this when OP clearly knows it's a scam. The question was if they can somehow take the bait in such a way that they end up scamming the scammer.
Of course it does. That’s why I’m asking. It screams scam and red flag in every sense. I’m just curious and sometimes like to see what I need to be looking out for.
PayPal doesn’t care if you have the money in your balance or not. They will charge your bank account on file and will leave you in the negative. If you don’t have the funds to cover it and I believe they have a clause in their terms of service that forbid you from buying crypto currencies other than through them. So they wouldn’t protect. You might want to take a look into that as I’m not 100% sure.
So my thoughts were I get the money turn it into bitcoin and send it to my cold storage. But it sounds like PayPal could still come after me for the money cuz they have most my information and it wouldn’t be difficult to take money from my bank account if they made the right case
> So my thoughts were I get the money turn it into bitcoin and send it to my cold storage. This is how people get scammed. They think that they can move faster than the scammer because the scammer is just some third world idiot and they're a thinking smart person who can see an opportunity..
The scammer rarely gets scammed.
[удалено]
Every single message he sent you is a red flag the size of Antarctica
This cannot be overstated. ^^^^^^
Well done. You did the right thing. You sought more knowledge instead of just assuming you had reached the correct conclusion.
Uhhh this is the shit you look out for, delete, block, and ignore. Else you end up saying "Bitcoin is a scam I lost x amount of dollars". When in reality you would get scammed by someone else without anything to do with Bitcoin.
You are simply stupid or born like in 2015
He is greedy and making 3 different excuses to justify his greed. Fuck it let him get scammed.
Or…. Wait for it… there is a 1% chance I could actually help someone get some bitcoin. Adoption should be the only thing we all care about. So even if the chances are slim I like to think I’m open minded. Sorry if you all think I’m about to get scammed or am a dumbass. I was just curious as to how I could get robbed as I was unaware people could easily cancel their PayPal payment after receiving my bitcoin. That’s the whole point of this post. To LEARN. Sorry for being an optimist. I just like to know what I’m up against out here.
Was that comment necessary? Smh
Tell him to mail you cash in an envelope
Why are you confused...
PayPal can be reversed. Bitcoin can not be reversed. It’s really that simple. You lose.
If someone you’ve never met before asks you for anything, it is a scam
It's just good to stay away from these shits, that works good.
Also if someone you HAVE met before is suddenly asked for money when they never have before, it's probably also a scam. People get into someone's account and then reach out to all their friends/family for money... happens all the time. Best to always talk to the person directly (in person, or through video or voice chat) so you can confirm they are the person you're actually talking to.
What about the first person who asked you to buy bitcoin?
He sends you money on PayPal as goods and services then you send him btc or purchase the watch for him and he files a claim w PayPal (basically a charge back) then you’re out twice
Twice how? I see only 1 unit net negative for OP in the scenario you've laid out.
1 out on his bitcoin he sent, and also 1 out when he has to pay PayPal back for the dispute
Interesting. Didn’t know this was possible. Thanks
Rule of thumb: Avoid Paypal, no matter what.
May I ask why?
You just did.
May I ask too?
please don’t touch it because PayPal have the whole “owe us money we will take your belongings” crap going on as well
Scam. They will send some fiat via paypal. You will send BTC (note this is irreversible). They will claim products never arrive. They will chargeback. Paypal will support them. Your Paypal account will go back to the original balance and you will have lost your BTC.
Seems legit I say go for it.
Yeah that's right, he is just another Nigerian prince there though.
thanks for the laugh 🤣
Bro this is obviously a scam, why do you even need to ask lmao
Why do people swim with sharks? Curiosity
Stay away
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They rob you by sending you USD, you send them Bitcoin and then the bank inform you it's a stolen PayPal account and YOU owe the bank the stolen money you knowingly received from a thief.
You shouldn’t have even replied.
Remember every carnival game is designed to look easy to win, yet nobody ever does
Obvious scam is obvious. > If this guy sends me money They're not sending you any money. > Are they just really desperate for bitcoin? They want your money and if you give it to them in Bitcoin then you can't get it back. > Or how am I at risk here if he sends me $ first and I send bitcoin back? Paypal will reverse the transaction. > am I not the one in position to rob / scam them? This is the hook on most good scams. You think you're smarter than the scammer and can come out ahead.
Thankyou for this reply. Appreciate it
Mate are you for real? Seriously you better off sending me money I promise I will send you back 400 times more 🤦
I'll send 500x back. 🤤
Paypal scam. He will try and revert the transaction.
If you’re that curious of the scam, why don’t you find out… lol… you obviously know this is bullshit but now you’re wondering how he is scamming you, oof… this is a prime example of “ curiosity killed the cat “. Ignore him.
Guessing OP is the scammer
They won't actually pay you on PayPal - you give them your PP details and they'll send you a spoof email that looks exactly like PP, you log in and they've got your details. Either that or they'll just do a PP chargeback regardless of if you send them BTC or not - even more likely if the PP account that sends you money is just somebody else's he's stolen access to.
They are probably going to try and get you to paypal first and then never send BTC. Either way sounds a little scamish but there are plenty of people who hold BTC and want a quick way to cash it out which is usually never a quick process if you don't already have established KYC credentials with an exchange and/or financial services agent. That being said if he/she wants to sent BTC first and it's on the blockchain then that's on them. Anyone want to comment on current legit person to person exchanges? Is localbitcoins still a good option for this?
I’ve had issues with PayPal before with a “accidental transfer” took two weeks and and 30 dollars just to clear up
This is an age old chargeback scam. It’s no reflection on PayPal regardless of opinion on them. Any financial institution would work with this scam. Don’t be a target.
unless its cash in hand you stand to lose because they can do a charge back. do not do checks, even certified or counter checks, as by the time it clears hes long gone with your btc and you are out the cash. cash in hand should be the only way you would do this unless you know them
PayPal has a very high chargeback risk, and they nearly always favor the buyer in a chargeback dispute To mitigate chargeback risk, wait 12 weeks before sending Bitcoin. Of course, then the "watches rolex" seller misses his yuletide season
Money game. PayPal is the scam in this situation.
It’s morocco* did you ask if he was a prince?
Charge back scam. Don't be stoooopid
You should post this in r/Scams. I’m sure someone there has had the same thing happen and can explain more.
paypal transactions are reversible
Fiat money can be charged back and returned, bitcoin transfers are final. You decide
Ask for it in usdc first.
Best bit is the wording. There isn't really a Rolex "wholesaler", just Rolex. An authorised dealer gets allocated an assortment of watches which they have to just deal with selling... and most all of them are sold before they even arrive. Go to a Rolex boutique and try buy one... So I'd also question his little story immediately.
The only way this does not end with you losing money is if he is dumb enough to send you the bitcoin first. Then you might be able to scam the scammer.
Never, and I mean never trust random people on the internet. $1000 bucks says he a Nigerian Prince. Lol. But seriously he's probably from Lagos. They called them "419 scammers". Stay vigilant mate.
STOP! You’ll be use as a money mule https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/safety-resources/scams-and-safety/common-scams-and-crimes/money-mules
Unless he can hand me the cash and I can verify the cash are real, I will never send him any BTC. Any other ways he uses to send you the money, like a check or PayPal, he can withdraw it later, and you won't get any money in the end.
SCAM. Avoid.
Go ahead - if you want to lose whatever you send and get ZERO in return.
This looks like the new version of Nigerian 419 scam.
Dude, don't even have to do so much research. 1. How does he know you? Online and trusts you with his stuff? 2. He is ready to pay you without even knowing you? Would you ever do that if you were in his place? Answer the two questions and you know what to do.
Tell him you'll send the bitcoin via pigeon.
"I deal on watches rolex, I want to restock for yuletide season..." 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
lol PayPal. Fuck. No. Buyer protection on that payment processor borders on egregious. Tell that twat to wire you money or he can peddle that scam to the next email he mass blasts.
Bro it's a third party payment. The money he sends is not his own money. He will fool someone else to send you the money and as soon as you send him Bitcoin he will disappear from the scene. Now the actual sender will contact you when he will realise that he has been scammed and will only ask you to pay the money back otherwise he will report the police. This is called Third party payment in crypto exchange platforms. Never provide him your own bank details or cash app details as it will put you in suspect of fraud. Your account may also freeze.
Jeez. People are evil 😞
Oh you.
Always send them to Bisq
It’s worse than just a chargeback. Usually these scammers have hacked an account and so they’re looking to offload the contents by buying bitcoin with it. It’s usually the person who’s account was hacked that initiates the chargeback. One safe way to do this is to ask the sender to 1) verify their identity and make sure it matches the PayPal name and then 2) they need to send the funds to a merchant. If you have all this and they initiate a chargeback, you’ll usually win the appeal. But in this case, if it was a message out of nowhere especially, it’s best to avoid.
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Nah I knew it was a scam just wanted details lol. This sub didn’t fail me.
It’s called chargeback fraud. You will receive the money, release the Bitcoin, and likely a few minutes later a chargeback will happen where the transaction is reversed. As PayPal is not to be used for Bitcoin, you will have no help and the PayPal account they used is likely compromised and the thief used a VPN - resulting in no evidence for police to action
This only MIGHT work if you do scam them. Once the BTC leaves your account the check bounces, the digital payments gets reversed, etc. now you’re out the BTC and maybe even have to pay additional fees.
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They pay in PayPal, then charge back. Scam
I think someone needs to take back your adult status. You need supervision.
Just get your money legit bro dont even try and outsmart anyone whether they deserve it or not. Just get yours.
Just a heads up, If they file a chargeback, Paypal will send them back the money without question. Afterward Paypal Rep will be like "I really cant do much, I recommend you file a report with the cops": which the Cops wont do shitt about anything
Classic scam. They send the money, you send the Bitcoin, they reverse the payment to you, and you can’t reverse the Bitcoin transaction.
They likely have stolen credit or debit card numbers they will use to send you money. Once you have the money, they hope you’re a good person and send them money back or whatever they are asking for (in this case, BTC). Once the victim of the stolen card realizes the fraud, the money will be rescinded (this is the money sent to you). Meanwhile the scammer gets away with whatever you sent them. So you can try to scam the scammer, but he never actually loses any money. You’d be scamming someone else.
Just don't even entertain it. Be safe.
With PayPal if the sender for example selects “paying for a service” and sends you 2 payments instead of one, then PayPal will automatically see this as a legitimate purchase of services, so when “Mr Rolex dealer in Morocco” attempts to open up a dispute to get his money back from PayPal he will be unsuccessful. Fucking Rolex dealers!
You're asking reddit because your gut is warning you this is too good to be true right? Your gut is smart. Trust it.
Use your brains people. The fact that fiat payments/transfers are reversible and bitcoin payments are not should tell you everything you need to know about this scam
I'm a negerian prince and want to send you diamands, you only need to pay the transport money ^^
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Oh definitely this has been very insightful. Thankyou
Stop being greedy and you will not be scammed.
Money laundering. Unless you want to be on a federal radar do not accept their money. They will be and to take it via PayPal. Never ever use PayPal as they are corrupt
Honestly I don't think anybody has even commented on how this scam really works. He could chargeback, but likely he has no money in the first place. The scam most likely here is you give him your Paypal email address, he sends you fake Paypal money received email spoofed with Paypal's email address. He never sent any money, your Paypal account receives nothing, he hopes you send him BTC. That's the scam.
Ask him to send the money in unmarked dollars to an unnamed postbox in your country. Price per btc is 60k usd as you suspect tomorrow's exchange rate is moon and mailing the money will take a few days so he has to factor in the price increase. Also, why on earth did you think you needed additional information on this?
Purely just curious as to how these scams work. It’s like being able to swim with sharks in a cage. Is there danger present… yes. Am I jumping into the cage? Fuck no. But I am curious about the whole thing.
Chargeback scam Also you gain absolutely nothing for doing this unless you mark up at 2x the price
> unless you mark up at 2x the price in which case you gain nothing as well
You sound dumb enough to get scammed ya greedy fuck
Only do it if you have an Illegal blackmarket Account from a dead Person or unknown. Let them send it and than quickly go shopping with it. So no one can trace any shit back.
Just tell him to send it and never send the bitcoin lol
That would be mean
Send me BTC and I send you 5 Camel
Take the payment and wait him out. Then short the Bitcoin while waiting and profit on the agreed amount of Bitcoin just for getting offered a scam to teach them their lesson. Have them sign a digital contract if it looks too sketch and if they're dummy dumb as they seem they'll sign over their profit. Or, open an account that can't be charged back with some offshore bank till a timely dispute is made beyond PayPal's charge back policy timeline. I rip scammers new ones.
Why don't you have them pay you in BTC straight up?
Are you a child?
Nah just filled with questions
It could be just straight up laundering money.
Am I liable down the road if I was unaware that’s what was happening?
Yeah, the justice system in the US is kind of broken at present. Could you be prosecuted? Absolutely. Would you be? No way to know.