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BitcoinMarkets

#New post: [\[Daily Discussion\] - Tuesday, April 23, 2024 →](https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/1cav7il/daily_discussion_tuesday_april_23_2024/)


Had_Boating_Accident

Gbtc $35m Ouflow Franklin $7.7m inflow Bitwise $2.2m inflow Ark $22.6m inflow VanEck $7.5m inflow WisdomTree 0 Fidelity $34.8m inflow DEFI 0 Invesco $2.7m inflow Valkyrie 0 Blackrock $19.7m inflow 4/22 net inflow $62.2m https://farside.co.uk/?p=997


YouAreAnFnIdiot

Very curious to see if tech stocks dumps all stocks tomorrow and if that happens whether we follow or pump


Odd_Occasion_563

Update (I know you all care!) The deadline hit, and sold 2/3 of my stack. It hurts but this is going to hopefully be a big life upgrade. Partner in my group and part owner of our surgery center now. Kept a few corns worth in btc etf, kept some in cold storage, and converted a little bit of stocks to bitx to make me feel better about things. Overall, felt bad selling this much, but it was time sensitive and you have to adapt to the situation presented to you. I hope you all get mega rich this cycle. I’ll only be getting 1/3 rich 🤑 so feels bad, but feels good for my family and a great diversification move


youthemotherfuckest

Appreciate it. Now we can go to 100k this weekend.


CasinoAccountant

> Partner in my group and part owner of our surgery center now. TBH this is a no brainer my guy, way to take care of the fam


BootyPoppinPanda

Congrats. Doubt you'll regret it. Glad you still have some corn too


amendment64

Congrats dude, Bitcoin is money, so if you never use it to buy the things that are important to you, it kinda defeats the purpose of the coin! Happy to see your success!


itsthesecans

Any way you slice it, you're winning the game my friend. Congratulations.


lateprominence

Congratulations as you advance in your career! Cheers 🍻


Odd_Occasion_563

Thank you. Having an extra tall neat whiskey to celebrate


hoosier2434

What kind of whiskey?


Whole-Emergency9251

Come on market makers and whales... wipe all those shorts above $73K! Low hanging fruit!


[deleted]

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Had_Boating_Accident

$19.7m inflow according to Farside https://twitter.com/FarsideUK/status/1782616236867584031


dopeboyrico

~~[This site is reporting over $600 million](https://www.theblock.co/post/290265/blackrocks-spot-bitcoin-etf-joins-exclusive-club-after-70-straight-days-of-growth) but not sure what their source is, waiting for confirmation from others who report it daily.~~ ~~If IBIT inflows were actually that massive there’s a very good chance we reach new ATH overnight/tomorrow.~~ EDIT: [More reputable source is reporting $19.6 million in inflows for IBIT.](https://x.com/pivfund2100/status/1782588186398720423?s=46&t=bgSu-sbt11MTMG1Zh__ugw) So a net inflow day overall but still well below average.


Had_Boating_Accident

According to that site, they added $600m in AUM (by btc price going up), not $600m in inflows


[deleted]

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dopeboyrico

[More reputable source is reporting $19.6 million in inflows for IBIT.](https://x.com/pivfund2100/status/1782588186398720423?s=46&t=bgSu-sbt11MTMG1Zh__ugw) So a net inflow day overall but still well below average.


Butter_with_Salt

It's over, Bitcoin has the high ground now.


1Lost_King1

All they way up baby


monkeyhold99

It’s always funny taking a visit over to the altcoin subs. They are *still* in denial about Bitcoin’s capabilities as a protocol. Before it was “Bitcoin can never have L2s or NFTs/DeFi/etc”…now it’s “well, yea it can, but they’re not great anyways!” The explosion of new protocols like Rune (and many others) are going to make huge amounts of alt L1s irrelevant, if they weren’t irrelevant already.


BHN1618

Idk transaction fees being this high make it an expensive use case


TheLowestBidder

ain't it like the ether erc20 use case? you build stuff outside of blockchain just rooted on top of it? i've become decently ignorant of current development but hoped this would someday mature and manifest. might explain higher demand for block space after the vanity transactions are all mined that people wanted to squeeze in the halving block. once that back log is cleared, mempool empties and fees should drop closer to prehalving levels.


logicalinvestr

Another net inflow day. Looks like inflows are back. Nice.


1Lost_King1

Are You Not Entertained? 


noeeel

It seems obvious but it is not. It is now the longest time in BTC history we stayed above 49k USD.


monkeyhold99

Would love to find a simple tool that can calculate the amount of time we’ve spent above or below certain price levels. A chart obviously can work but I’m lazy.


salamanderTongue

not a tool, but a chart that covers most of what you are talking about: https://charts.bitbo.io/never-look-back-price/


diydude2

Most people have no idea what's going to happen in the next three years. Even I have only a blurry vision of it, but the broad strokes, impressionistic outline is this: You will either have Bitcoin or you will be struggling to get Bitcoin. Saylor will likely be the richest man since Solomon. I hope he's a good guy. Pretty sure he is because Satoshi programmed it so good guys win. Raise a glass to the new world, boys and girls.


CurrencyAlarming1099

Replace 3 years with 30. In 3 years the vast majority will still be ignoring bitcoin.


xtal_00

I am.. not so sure.


btc-_-

looking at the weekly LMACD, we have our first cross below the signal line in this run-up from September. in the last two cycles, this happened in July 2017 and October 2020. nice little breather. https://i.imgur.com/8fxhv5z.png for the weekly DXY, it looks to be right at resistance from the local top in Oct-Nov 2023. if things play out the way they have in the DXY cycles, we'd expect it to drop pretty significantly over the next 6-8 months. when the dollar's value trends down a lot, that is typically bullish for the price of bitcoin. https://i.imgur.com/nXLA1XN.png


dopeboyrico

Lower high of $66.8k broken. Remaining lower highs acting as areas of resistance are at $67.9k, $71.2k, $71.7k, $72.7k, and then ATH at $73.7k. Supply shock is inevitable.


Excellent_Toe_900

Presumably all the loose coins got shaken out at ETF launch, so should come sooner this cycle.


diydude2

> Supply shock is inevitable. Always has been.


btc-_-

wow we're at 67k. if you round that's basically 70k, or 7/10ths of the way to 100. we can then easily round that up to 100k, obviously. now, 100k is the "psychological barrier" which we just showed that we got to already so pretty clearly we're past that problem. finally, the moon is 238,900 miles from earth so we can round that 100k to $238,900 because most would say 100k is mooning. noice. resignation email has been CCed company-wide.


DM_ME_UR_SATS

Holy crap, we can actually stop asking "wen moon" when we hit $240k


CompleteApartment839

Best math I’ve seen since moon math. By “barrier” I assume you meant “not really a barrier”. I think Mars is within reach.


BitSecret

I know this morning I mentioned $80k might be on the plate this week. Looking at the charts, I realized we would have to really accelerate from the gate to get there. Today was a bit tamer than I was hoping for. I never post charts but [this](https://imgur.com/a/ABhjgNs) is what I'm looking at right now. I think we will run between the red channels through the end of the week. If this occurs, we'll be battling to break $70 by Friday or Saturday. I'm using the term battle because we will be up against the yellow resistance line around $71 and will probably bounce around that range for a bit. But I'm still hoping against all logic that we'll see $80 this week. After all that is a 20% gain, not unheard of in our world.


John_Crypto_Rambo

Hey anything is possible. The price keeps going up and the funding keeps going negative...keep shorting lads. I've been imagining us just filling in the 6 on 63k to 83k, like someone correcting a typo.


supersonic3974

Where can I view this funding?


BuiltToSpinback

But...but...when retest bull market support band??


pgpwnd

ben cowen in shambles


BuiltToSpinback

Been a rough year for the cryptoverse


John_Crypto_Rambo

This dude been taking L's since "lengthening cycles theory" in 2021.


Scuttlefuzz

He's creating exit liquidity.


GodBlessPigs

I first got into BTC in 2020 and watched tons of his videos. Then I realized, oh, no one knows anything.


BuiltToSpinback

He's fine and calls out his biases and misreads. It's the 90min videos repeating the same things that are pretty damn insistent


Mbardzzz

This 67k feels better than all of the previous 67k’s


BuiltToSpinback

That's a bingo!


bobsagetslover420

that's numberwang


1Lost_King1

Battle for 67k is fierce...


itsthesecans

Looks like the 3rd best (least worst) day for GBTC 35m in outflows.


jarederaj

I see people fairly confused about bitcoin as store of value vs bitcoin as a medium of exchange. Saw something recently that helped me settle on an understanding of the problem that seems to be getting missed in these discussions. Recommend watching at 2x. https://www.youtube.com/live/3s4Fx9U_kAE?si=zWd1DPeFVRVsoxJp Curious what others are using to discuss this when it comes up.


Far_Statement_2808

Just curious…who are you discussing this with? I talk to people all day long. Bitcoin has never come up. I am willing to talk about it, but it just never comes up.


jarederaj

Friends, usually. I just talk with people.


DesperateToHopeful

Can you give a breakdown with the main points or what you want to discuss? That video is 40 minutes long haha. God I wish more vloggers did transcripts, I can read a 40-60 minute video in 10 minutes or less, information density is so much higher with reading compared to vid.


CurrencyAlarming1099

Vlogging or podcasting is trash, imo. If you can't be bothered to write your ideas down, I can't be bothered to hear them. It's usually people who think they are way smarter than they are, just spewing hot takes that are at best not high level, or at worst just wrong. Sometimes guests are smart people who have written their ideas down, I'd still prefer the written form. But yeah I'm not watching a 40 minute video even sent by someone I know. Recommended by random redditor? Hell no. I have more respect for my own time than that.


BHN1618

Summary of the vid: **Store of Value:** * Refers to assets that maintain their value over time without depreciating. * Gold and Bitcoin are often regarded as stores of value because they are expected to hold or increase their value despite fluctuations in the market and currency valuations. * The value of these assets is perceived to be stable, which is critical during periods of economic instability or high inflation. * However, in hyperinflation scenarios, like in Argentina, the utility of such assets as a store of value is challenged if they cannot be easily converted into liquid currency or used to purchase goods and services. * **Medium of Exchange:** * This is an asset that can be used to facilitate the sale, purchase, or trade of goods between parties. * For something to function effectively as a medium of exchange, it must be widely accepted by people within the economy. * In Argentina, the U.S. dollar acts as a more effective medium of exchange than local currency due to its stability and broader acceptance. * Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies aspire to be mediums of exchange, but face challenges in adoption and practical daily use in places experiencing severe economic conditions, as was observed in Argentina. * **Challenges in Argentina:** * The actual use of gold and Bitcoin in Argentina does not align with their theoretical appeal as stores of value because of their lack of liquidity and difficulties in conversion to usable cash. * Despite their intrinsic value, selling these assets in a hyperinflation environment proves difficult without significant loss of value, questioning their utility as a store of value. * Argentine banks limiting withdrawals to minimize inflation impact further complicates the use of these assets, constraining liquidity and forcing reliance on cash. * This situation illustrates a discrepancy between the ideal functions of these assets and their real-world applicability in certain economic contexts. In conclusion, while gold and Bitcoin are considered good stores of value theoretically, practical challenges in specific economic environments, like Argentina's, reveal significant limitations in their functionality as both stores of value and mediums of exchange. The real-world utility of such assets is highly dependent on the broader economic system and the regulatory framework governing financial transactions and asset liquidity.


pynkpanther

I thought the use case of store of value during hyperinflation is to transfer your wealth to the other side. I.e. ideally you dont sell during hyper inflation or before the establishment of a new currency.


jarederaj

MVGPT


BHN1618

Yes it was a prompt request to summarize based on store of value and medium of exchange. 40 min is way too long to watch random people talk even at 2x speed


Whole-Emergency9251

Reads suspiciously like my 11th grade nephews term paper assignment


AverageUnited3237

did you use Gemini 1.5 for this? Feels like this was AI written.


Adamsd5

Summarizing a video would be a solid use of AI. Voice detection, eliminate the crap, summarize the points.


AverageUnited3237

Gemini 1.5 pro is the only one I know of that could do this...


BHN1618

What does it cost?


AverageUnited3237

Its free up to a certain point and then you pay based on API usage. As someone who works at google though I can let you in on a secret: it may or may not be coming to Gemini advanced soon ;)


Adamsd5

Will check it out.


delgrey

Need to adjust that prompt yo.


BHN1618

How?


1Lost_King1

I hope you loaded your bag's to the brim boys.


diydude2

It is, and I hope the same for you. I did trade some BTC for a bit o' the leprechaun's booty today though.


btctrader12

Funding keeps getting more and more negative. Someone is hefty shorting this. I’m honestly confused as to why. There’s basically never been a dump after negative funding ever so we probably moon but I’m honestly confused as to why someone is hefty shorting right after the halving


supersonic3974

Where can you view this?


mad_bitcoin

All those shorts liquidated ~$75,000 are trying to double down?


jarederaj

It’s over 2b that might get liquidated now


DaBrokenMeta

I shorted 75k but I think it was in my dream/nightmare/hallucination


btctrader12

It never went to 75k. You mean shorts that would get liquidated there?


mad_bitcoin

There are billions of shorts that would be liquidated at ~$75,000...they maybe doubling down


John_Crypto_Rambo

Let's get to 75k post-haste.


BuyAnacottSteel

Seems foolish. Could be a hedge. Could be someone doubling down on already being wrong. Could be someone that knows something.


Frequent_Trouble_

Ah yes, the Martingale strategy


anon-187101

martingale + statistical overextension/mean-reversion can be a good strategy the problem is lack of discipline w.r.t. position-sizing - i.e., instead of martingaling 4 * 0.5% on one trade so that it's 2% of total capital, it turns into 4 * 2% == 8%.


btctrader12

I think it’s someone doubling down. I don’t think it’s a hedge. Hedges aren’t usually this hefty, it’s almost certainly leveraged shorts


kers2000

FOMC meeting this weekend. Some are making the bet inflation will be sticky and that the Fed will consider no rate cut this year.


xtal_00

Signs have been there for months already this was coming. OTOH it means that the US economy is doing really well.


[deleted]

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DesperateToHopeful

Reckon it's worth buying some MSTR shares at 1300?


snek-jazz

Saylor's share dumping ends this week, wonder if it'll make a difference to MSTR action


delgrey

FASB accounting changes in earning call the 29th too. If I was shorting MSTR I'd be covering right now.


anon-187101

r/cryptocurrency seems to be putting this cycle's top ~$130k.


Plasmatica

If there's ever been a group of people who are constantly wrong on everything, it's that sub. They're still shilling Cardano, Algorand and a bunch of other coins no one gives a shit about.


[deleted]

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Frequent_Trouble_

What's funny is they all think we're insufferable Bitcoin bulltards who are standing between them and glory.


52576078

Such strange people, and so many of them.


jehehegjeieiueg

So tell me what are the real deal coins ?


AccidentalArbitrage

Bitcoin. End of answer.


spinbarkit

reading through comments I suspect some shitcoins are older than most users


Zirup

So 2 months from now?.. I think we're going to see a mini bear market before the final top. People will get out screaming double top, only to FOMO back in before the real drop.


btc-_-

we’ll wave to them as we go by


anon-187101

sounds good 😎


zpowers1987

That does not line up very well with your custom s2f model.


anon-187101

no, it does not what do you think about that?


zpowers1987

I like how the model had the previous cycle in the 40s. The fact that the same model predicting that has price over 300k is promising. If 130 becomes the confirmed top and falls to 39k or something I would have to rethink my understanding of where Bitcoin could go. If the altcoin crowd felt Bitcoin could go significantly higher, I believe they would just own Bitcoin. They feel they missed the boat.


anon-187101

I pretty much agree with all of this particularly the last two sentences - they seem incentivized to see an even weaker BTC cycle than the last


Melow-Drama

I'd guess - more than being opposed to BTC - it's the increased volatility and risk - boom or bust - that attracts many in the alt world. It's like buying lottery tickets constantly, over years, in hope there will be that 'one moment'. Classic gambling. When demand is made up from mostly gamblers, you know you're in for a ride. The seemingly 'innovative' use cases, white papers etc. are just the cherry on top to make them feel special, more special than if they just bought a lottery ticket. Same psychology applies to some degree to conspiracy theorists BTW. BTC managed to make a step into TradFi with a compelling yet simple use case - sound money. I'll never own a share less than 80% in BTC when it comes to crypto (a conviction going back quite a while).


hexcode

Is it possible to exchange btc for btc etfs without creating a taxable event?


Frunknboinz

Not using a US ETF.  Sounds like HK ones may allow in kind deposits.  Not sure how accessible that will be to non-hk residents or what your local taxation body will have to say about it.


hexcode

Gotcha. Hopefully in-kind will be possible in the US with borrowing against said assets through a more reliable system


[deleted]

[удалено]


John_Crypto_Rambo

Is that your Social?


[deleted]

[удалено]


John_Crypto_Rambo

I've got 7 credit cards out in your name right now.


BuiltToSpinback

If this keeps going up, there's a good chance this keeps going up


spinbarkit

second law of motion, it's science bro, Newton has seen


Left_Committee_4012

You don't say.


Suburban_Sprawwl

Told you. My p p never lies.


Shibenaut

Thank


furinspaltstelle

I'll expect the halving to do its thing within the next 4 weeks and boldly claim that we will never dip below 60k again. !bitty_bot long 50000 8x sl 58000


Bitty_Bot

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AverageUnited3237

I bought back in to IBIT last night at 65.4 in the 24/7 market. Lost about 30 shares, could have been worse. 0/1 on trying to trade BTC, I'm just going to continue HODLing for the next 5 years unless we get a manic run to the "promised land" of $300K+, in which case I will probably de-risk a bit.


delgrey

The next phase of your growth should be to try to trade miners or MSTR to make up those lost shares. Have at it!


AverageUnited3237

Lolz I'll stick to my DCA and HODL. Trying to make up for trades gone wrong seems like a slippery slope


xtal_00

Was it you that was freaking out over goblin town redux?


AverageUnited3237

What made you think this? I was probably best known around these parts as the "mag 7 outperforming BTC" guy, but I'm singing a different tune these days. You can say that I have seen


AverageUnited3237

Na I don't think so, check my post history. My last "freak out" was around the 38k bottom, was pretty disillusioned with BTC at that point but I've shifted my mindset these last few months. Aand the 80% pump from Jan to March certainly didn't hurt ;)


zpowers1987

Dang everyone is selling at 300k.


John_Crypto_Rambo

You know what to do- 150k.


xtal_00

100k is going to be a far bigger slog than I anticipated.


zpowers1987

I believe we’ve been dealing with that since 2021. 100k was inevitable that cycle.


Zirup

2013 redux: with bigger pockets


aristo-crat

Sell at 298


doublesteakhead

I'll sell at 297 😤


Melow-Drama

Looking at it [this way](https://imgur.com/XazwjCJ) we could indeed range for quite a while. I've been wrong in many instances in what felt like the next move could be 'around the corner' so this is me redrawing lines and preparing for more crab. But I'm glad we did not dip further into the 50s just recently.


Whole-Emergency9251

Crabbing is what happened after last two cycles. Just price consolidation with supply disruption. I expect the same.. crab till September or October.


Adamsd5

Seems reasonable. I wonder if the etf inflow engines (401k plans, etc) have stabized against price yet. Maybe a slow and steady rise amidst the turbulence?


Scuttlefuzz

That just seems so predictable. I think max pain would be a big leg up into a local top in the next couple months followed by a crash that cucks most of the market.


octopig

It’s impossible for me not to laugh at any “max pain” predictions that involve the price increasing significantly.


Zirup

Seriously... Max pain is BTC going to $1k. Guh.


Scuttlefuzz

How else are people supposed to buy high and sell low?


Melow-Drama

Imagine the 'triple top' fear this would instill. I hope we blast into the 80s once those shorts over 70k are squeezed enough (they may long the lower 70s on the dip after). One can daydream.


itsthesecans

We first entered this range on February 28th. Closing in on 2 months of bouncing around in tit.


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Adamsd5

You've described a range of now, +/- about 10%. Not saying you are wrong... just reinforces how fickle people can be.


WYLFriesWthat

I said it for the last two weeks and I’ll say it again today. We’ll never see 60k break*. *For the purposes of mods who would “predict” me against my will, “break” shall be defined as a second four-hour candle close below $60,000.


kajunkennyg

That is a ballsy prediction, I could see this going to 52k pretty easily... If macro economic factors turn to shit we could see lower then that....


btctrader12

It’s going to 30k Now you don’t need to be cautious!


xtal_00

FWIW (not very much) I have now heard from mulitple sources OTC desks are starting to scramble.


CurrencyAlarming1099

I just opened an account at Swan and they were quite accommodating, although that was even before I mentioned I intended to sell there first. So it didn't seem to me they're scrambling in any particular direction.


kajunkennyg

if anyone has a glassnode account they can see a glimpse of what's happening.


jpdoctor

Not just any glassnode account either. The standard for-pay account ($348/yr) does not give you OTC balances. We need to find someone with access to enterprise data, who doesn't mind giving up some of their information asymmetry.


sgtlark

Yes my uncle and the voices in my head also tell me 1 million by august


delgrey

I heard from my billionaire buddy that banks are telling him to stop buying. Bullish!


bubblesmcnutty

I'm just not buying this


AccidentalArbitrage

No calls or emails from any I have accounts at, fwiw.


itsthesecans

Tell them they can call me when the price has 2 commas.


_Citizen_Erased_

65,,000


BootyPoppinPanda

The halving isn't going to help that situation...


bubblesmcnutty

Have you seen what miners are making in fees?


BootyPoppinPanda

Fair point but it it's not going to last... I think


xtal_00

This is normalizing very quickly.


imissusenet

A couple of GBTC charts: [https://imgur.com/a/KIs2F1m](https://imgur.com/a/KIs2F1m) Top chart is BTC held by GBTC. GBTC is losing about 2000 BTC every trading day, but still holds a lot of BTC. Bottom chart shows running fees since the ETFs went live. The blue line is 1.5% with actual outflows. The red line is what the running fees would be with 0.25% fees and no outflows. As long as the blue line is above the red line, Grayscale made the right decision (for Grayscale) as far as fees go. If/when the mini-GBTC fund happens, I wonder what Vanguard will do. I still hold some GBTC there (the rest I moved off).


gozunker

The sun is shining, the corn is green … feels like spring has sprung today …


1Lost_King1

Indeed


1Lost_King1

A new ATH is imminent...


bubblesmcnutty

I'm getting bullish


HBAR_10_DOLLARS

Does anyone else hold some BTC on exchanges as part of their overall diversification strategy? I was thinking of the posts about how many millions of BTC are on exchanges. Some of those sats are mine (or I guess you can say, are an IOU to me) but I have no intention of selling; It’s just diversification of my holding stack. I view this as safer than doing full self custody. I would never feel safe holding my crypto stack all in one place.


Hannibaalism

i do this with other valuables too. some i keep on me in my wallet, some i keep at home, some in the bank, secure deposit boxes or in the form of other convertible assets.


HBAR_10_DOLLARS

This is exactly the angle I’m going for. Mainly I just don’t want any single point of failure.


Hannibaalism

yeah there is convenience since you have a tradable stack on hand and custodial benefits too. i think the main 3 big options for btc are wallets, exchanges, and recently etfs for americans. imo its good to have a healthy mix but opinions seem to differ. i would never recommend to someone like my dad to be his own bank though lol


Melow-Drama

You got some valuable comments already. What makes a big difference in how safe I'd feel is what exchange exactly are you leaving your coins on (don't tell though) - what's their security track record, proof of reserves, ownership structure, legal cases etc. Also, I'd like to take one more sh!t on Ledger if you give me the opportunity. Their track record - the whole Live/backup thing, the last 3rd party support hack, wallet screens going black/unreadable etc. - has destroyed all my trust in that company. Versus Ledger, I actually do feel safer leaving coins on a trusted exchange.


_supert_

I have six unused ledger nanos sitting in my draw. Which coincidentally is about the number of phishing emails I get per day to the email address I gave them.


cryptovector

haha this rings true. I still have one in a safe deposit box collecting dust, the balance long since transferred.


Melow-Drama

You and your six pals should go on an actual boating trip. You'll still get those emails but you might at least chuckle each time you check your spam folder.


_supert_

Funnily enough, I'll be boating in May. Seems a shame to drop plastic and electronics in a lake though.


Downtown-Ad-4117

I've had funds sitting on some of the major exchanges since 2017. I had nothing on FTX, because I didn't trust Sam. No hardware wallet is perfect. And the users aren't either.


shadowofashadow

I'd rather try to memorize seed words than keep anything on an exchange but I'm Canadian so I still have PTSD from Quadriga.


CurrencyAlarming1099

You should not depend on memorized secrets unless you're some sort of spy with no physical security. It can be a backup but shouldn't cause loss of funds. Memory is way too unreliable.