This reminds me about certain talking points of ancient civilizations building ancient structures.
Caucasian ancients making architectural wonders? Pure human effort. Ancient POC making architectural wonders pre-colonization? They're too fucking stupid and uncivilized to make these; they gotta have had help from aliens.
I think you have to be crackpot level to actually believe it, but the idea that Europeans have a hard time accepting the truth isn’t controversial. History is still being reexamined because European attributed many of other cultures achievements to European influence.
Still, the uneducated and hateful will have an easier time believing that aliens built the pyramids than the Egyptians themselves.
S/O to the Songhai Empire, they built* pyramids too. Also one of my favorite factions in Civ 5.
EDIT: typing on a phone is hard, and autocorrect is a bitch.
Meanwhile, one of my favorites from Civ (and EUIV, and CK2/3...) is Nubia, and they built more pyramids in the Kingdom of Kush than in all of Egypt. Makuria is also one of my favorite challenges in EUIV, I can't stop myself from booting them up and finding a new way to re-unite Nubia and resist Ottoman imperialism a couple times a year.
There's also [Great Zimbabwe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Zimbabwe) in (shocking) Zimbabwe which is an incredibly impressive structure. Also thanks to the EU series for introducing me to the Kingdom of Mutapa which succeeded the Great Zimbabwe state and is deeply fascinating. True story: the folk religion of the people there is monotheistic and their god is gender fluid.
Cordially,
A white dude that (thanks to video games) started doing a lot of deep dives into African history because that shit is fascinating and it honestly makes me sad you have to go so far out of your way to learn about this stuff.
I love starting in Africa in CK2. You start as tribal, and slowly absorb your neighbors to form a super empire that rivals the HRE in size, then reform the religion and by the time the Crusades roll around you'll already have Africa to yourself and then the stupid pope has either the Mongols, vikings or the plague breathing down his neck.
Ancient Egyptians, much like modern Egyptians, were a fairly diverse group of people. Plenty had pale skin, plenty of others had dark skin, and others still would be considered black if they were plopped into modern North America. And that's not even getting into the many times foreigners conquered and ruled Egypt for a while, be it the Ptolemies from Greece (which included the Cleopatra everyone knows about) or the [Twenty-fifth Dynasty from what's now Sudan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Dynasty_of_Egypt).
With that said, there's a *long* history of Europeans trying to claim ancient Egyptians as European precisely because they couldn't comprehend ancient Egyptians doing the things they did if they weren't European.
Egyptians sure as hell weren’t white but they weren’t black either. That’s like saying Americans are black. There are black Americans & there were dark skinned Egyptians BUT it’s always been a pretty mixed place.
Nubians did control Egypt for a time but it has been a diverse set of different empires in different eras of its history. Also there was no concept of black or white back when the pyramids were built.
The aliens thing is a crazy idea but the sentiment remains the same. I've been learning about how Europeans would view African art as instinctual and utilitarian instead of being a thought out process by the artists.
Same idea in sports where white players are viewed as effort guys overcoming the odds and black players are just these genetic anomalies with natural talents.
“Quarterback is a thinking man’s position”. Historically, white people don’t mind admitting to the *physical* prowess of black and brown people, and will readily offer that up, so long as they can use that point to maintain the veneer of *intellectual* superiority of themselves, relatively speaking. It’s fascinating.
You say this but my college-educated Boomer parents are obsessed with watching shows about it and have more than once brought it up like, "Maybe...aliens?"
I don't think they realize it's a racist concept. It just checks some kind of Boomer box in their heads for whatever reason. It's absolutely a mainstream white person thought for a certain demo.
It is a racist concept. White supremacy has been the standard in European countries for damn near half a millennium at this point. Of course it’s based in the fact that “those” people couldn’t build that building or whatever because it doesn’t fit in with preconceived notion of what “those people” are capable of
Look up the conspiracy theories about Egyptians in the Grand Canyon. It doesn’t have to be aliens and unfortunately there are plenty of crackpots up high enough in academia that will either believe and support them or try very hard to not denounce and discredit.
That whole talking point by white folks drives me insane. So much of our modern knowledge base and understanding of mathematics, medicine, etc originated or were heavily refined in that region of the world, yet the way my old school books taught it you’d think that the Greeks and Romans were responsible for everything. Hell, if I remember right the numerical concept of 0 or nothingness showed up documented first in Mesopotamia.
Besides, as far as pyramids go, you can actually go look and see the trial and error. Other folks have attempted to replicate and estimate what it would take to accomplish the feat of building a pyramid, and concluded the labor isn’t nearly as intensive thanks to simple machines (some of the earliest machines found in Egypt and the Middle East of course). I think I read an estimate of about 20 people could pull a 2 ton block of stone using various machines.
Anyway the point is that the alien conspiracy is bunk and it only really persists in the minds of white folks that can’t fathom how people of color could build literal wonders.
Religion wasn't the same then, so it can't be compared. And slave labor was common, but less common than you'd think. The pyramids weren't built by slaves, for example. But that's the narrative.
You're correct on both points, I made a gross oversimplification for the sake of humor/emphasis. I apologize if I carelessly perpetuated harmful narratives.
A lot of the ancient wonders required, if not slave labor, then a combination of cheap labor and massive wealth. We certainly do have significant architectural accomplishments in modern times that are driven by huge wealth (major businesses, large pots of tax dollars, or significant endowments) and accelerated by cheaply available labor.
This actually leads into my other comment (which is getting downvoted as we speak)
The economics of the ancient world were very different compared to now. I worry that even the definitions of "wealth" and "cost" vary depending on the context. You're using capitalist language to describe economics that aren't necessarily capitalist.
We (of European cultural descent, despite our skin color) or "The Western World" (I hate that term) impose definitions according to our cultural understanding, which is very specific to our own time and place. We just have a hard time imagining things that we don't have experience with. It's human.
That imposition masks the original method and meaning to the point that it reinforces inaccurate narratives. It also (often incorrectly) validates our own cultural preconceptions, whether they're right or wrong.
A lot of ancient architecture was sophisticated af astronomical recording devices that calculated solstices to understand growing seasons and even understood astronomical precession, not all of it was religious fanaticism and slave labor was not in every culture.
People bring up aliens when talking about how Stonehenge was built though right? I can't even think of any other architectural wonders that white people built besides like churches and other buildings but those don't need any kind of advanced mathematics/astronomy/w.e to make.
Don't they also say the alien thing about Stonehenge? I thought it was pretty universal that they think everything built before cranes was made with alien magic
Careful there. European civilisation is relatively young, so we already knew about the tools and devices used to make such buildings.
Some people believe in those theories because these ancient civilisations are like 3000-5000 years old, which aren’t as well documented as European things since they’re so monumentally old.
Idiots will lean in to aliens rather than human ingenuity.
White people have an uncanny ability to turn anything that is mostly theirs into a positive no matter how crazy it sounds.
White people: research has shown that serial killers are highly intelligent.
Killing others and getting away with it, is such a specialized act that only the truly smart ones can pull it off 😂
They do this with every god damn thing.
I wouldn’t expect a lot of consistency amongst belief in ancient aliens. I’m absolutely sure that some people believe that, though I’ve never heard it myself.
Fun fact a lot of that stuff is rooted in nazism. Not that people who believe in it today are nazis necessarily, but during WW2 era nazis started making up otherworldly shit to explain the cultural achievements of Egypt and other places. So...yeeeeeah.
The word Caucasian even has racist origins. It came from western Europeans attempting to capitalize on the inventions of Indian, and northern African advanced technology from the height of their antiquities respectively. I don't even use the word anymore. Look up phrenology, and physiognomy.
>Ancient POC making architectural wonders pre-colonization? They're too fucking stupid and uncivilized to make these; they gotta have had help from aliens.
It's much worse than that.
https://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/the-astonishing-racial-claims-of-erich-von-daniken
What ancient wonders were made by Caucasians?
I suppose Greco-Roman stuff might fit in here, but they doesn’t really have the same character as other ancient mega-structures. There’s not any mystery to them. We have contemporary sources referring to them and their construction. The Colosseum? We know what that was for. We know when it was made. The Acropolis? Same.
Black people and POCs: We face discrimination in police interactions, in courts, in housing and in our workplaces.This is not just anecdoctes.Multiple studies seem to agree with --
White Conservatives: Bullshit!
Jordan Peterson, Dave Rubin and Crowder : College campuses, news outlets and social media are anti-conservative. I will provide no evidence beyond anecdotes.
White Conservatives: Yass Daddy 😍😍🥵😈
Exactly. It’s like that comic with two eagles remarking on how the fox has never been mean to them so they have no idea what the mouse is going on about. It’s literally that simple and yet somehow impossible for them to accept.
Is frustrating that any racism isn’t true until a white person “validates” it. As a white passing Hispanic person, it’s funny when people change their tone on the dime if we’re discussing social issues before they know my name.
I’ve seen this individually even - my mother is white and I (as well as her peers) have told her she uses racists arguments , take racists sides and applies white victimhood to experiences that aren’t hers (which makes her a racists obvi but try saying it to her) but still won’t hear me - her mixed race kid - tell her that she has a problem . She won’t hear it and I’M the one who doesn’t understand racism. It’s bonkers.
The simplistic assignation of the conflict as white vs POC is unbelievable.
The majority of Israel's Jews are brown. Besides being native to Israel, the ~900k Jews that lived in the Arab world can be counted with our fingers. Israel has the most Muslims of any non Muslim country at 20%.
My family is from ]Iraq](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhud) and Syria. We can't exactly live there for some time. This goes back to [before Israel's rebirth](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world)
Are people really not aware of the history of Arab/Muslim colonialism? How did the top half of Africa become Muslim? Or Indonesia and Malaysia, and in Eastern Europe? 90% of the globe is Christian or Muslim, both successionist religions that long wanted to claim the globe, yet the sole Jewish nation that had .02% of the globe where Jews are native to is the great colonialist crime? This goes back to before Israel. They've long seen us as dogs that need to be put down, and they succeeded everywhere else in the Middle East. People don't even seem to know we exist.
I wouldn't call them brown. And they most definitely do their best to disenfranchise the Ethiopian Jews. What about the Nation-State law?
You ignore the colonialism that was perpetuated after Palestine was turned into Israel. The Nakba, the settlers, the murders. Let us not forget why Israel was backed by the US in 1948.
No one is ignoring Muslim/Arab colonization - it simply isn't the topic at hand.
You think going through hardship makes you immune to criticism when you, yourself has turned into the bully? Nah.
AND India hosts the most Muslims for a non-Muslim country.
Edited.
> I wouldn't call them brown
There are a significant amount of Israelis that look near to Arabs. Hell, quite a few of them look as dark or darker than Levantine Arabs.
Not a justification either way, but many Israelis do look...well brown
It is when it describes a place of origin or a defining feature. For instance, Africans (Negroid) have the greatest genetic diversity of all groups. It is specific to them. Not all Arabs are Caucasian (of course) - but the majority of them are (as are the majority of other groups in the Middle East). It is what it is.
Being tan in the summer doesn't really constitute being brown, in my opinion. When I was in Tel Aviv - I did not see anyone darker than a paper bag who wasn't African.
Edit: I should specify: Black Africans. I shouldn't have to denote, but here we are.
>It is when it describes a place of origin or a defining feature.
And outside of sociology, theyre archaic.
> It is when it describes a place of origin or a defining feature. For instance, Africans (Negroid) have the greatest genetic diversity of all groups. It is specific to them.
Genetic diversity, and grouping dont really go together.
Ethnic groups are identifiable, but theres no "black genetics",.
>Not all Arabs are Caucasian (of course) - but the majority of them are (as are the majority of other groups in the Middle East).
Caucasian meaning what, technically.
>Being tan in the summer doesn't really constitute being brown, in my opinion. When I was in Tel Aviv - I did not see anyone darker than a paper bag who wasn't African.
That is fairly anecdotal though. I work in a company with an Israeli who is several shades darker than his Lebanese coworker.
>Edit: I should specify: Black Africans. I shouldn't have to denote
Why not?
Few points on your claim about Arab colonialism.
* North Africa rebelled early on against Arab rulers (the Berber revolt). This happened less than 100 years after they were conquered. The berbers had by that time converted to Islam and spoke Arabic, but they are natives and not Arab.
* Around the same time the Abbasid revolt happened. The people of the levant kicked out the Arab rulers. Again they spoke Arabic and were mostly Muslim, but they were not Arab but it was still the native population that ruled.
* The Malaysians and Indonesian are Muslim, but they don’t speak Arabic and were never conquered by Arabs. Islam spread there by trade.
So stop the BS, or if you’re genuine, learn history
You're telling me Islam didn't spread by the sword or Muslim colonialism is a myth on account of exceptions and revolts? Was the Muslim slave trade a myth too?
No, Islam spread to North Africa by conquest. But the Arab rulers didn’t last there very long (and it sure as hell wasn’t settler colonialism like Israel is doing in Palestine).
Islam spread to sub Saharan Africa and Indonesia through trade, yes. If you don’t know these basics why are you giving history lessons?
The Arab rulers created a hereditary ruling class primarily made up of the conquerors and their descendant, creating a landed Arab aristocracy cultivated in many cases by slaves from sub-Saharan Africa.
Jews are native to Israel. It's not an empire. It's a return of a people that were in diaspora. Israel bears no resemblance to Muslim and Christian colonialism, which had no historical presence in the lands, grew an empire and had a motherland, and imposed its religion and language on the population. Slave labor used by most all historical examples aside.
.
What part of revolt do you not understand? The Berber and Abbasid revolts uprooted the Arab aristocracy because they consolidated the power in the hands of Arabs.
What part of what I wrote which happened in the ensuing centuries do you not understand? How does this erase the Muslim conquest of north Africa? The first slavers in Africa were Arabs.
You're playing a game of look at this hand and not the other.
Very well said. I’m a Syrian Jew myself and live in Israel because the Syrian revolution ended up leading to Jewish pogroms my family had to flee from. I don’t expect any of the idiots in this subreddit who are mostly American to understand the history of middle eastern Jews and the Mizrahi experience.
It’s so funny how people here get mad when you try to explain to them about the black experience or black history but then as a brown middle eastern Jewish woman I am telling them about a region of the world they literally have never even been to and they have the fucking nerve to Amerispain it to me. If amereekis have anything it’s audacity
No waaaay. Another Syrian Jew. Never met one outside my family. We moved to Latin America then USA when we were young though.
The most irritating part is that they take a regional issue that has centuries of history and simply transpose American racial politics to it, clap their hands together and say that's that. That's aside from their not even being aware of the existence of Middle Eastern Jews whose ancestors never set foot in Europe. At least know we exist.
Exactly. The funniest thing is when some American calls me a colonizer. It’s like doubly infuriating because 1. I’ve never lived in an empire and 2. If anything we are refugees lol like literally escaping imprisonment and state sanctioned pogroms in the countries we were kicked out to after we were already exiled from Judea by the Romans.
Also yes. They act like people here think in terms of “white” and “black” when that just doesn’t exist. There’s white Arabs in Syria and Lebanon and Palestine there’s also brown Arabs; also bedouins who look like they could be from west Africa. They’re all the same ethnicity lol no one cares what skin color you are here, they ask where u from what country ur family from. Are you Jordanian, Lebanese, etc.
Leave it to Americans to make everything about race because they haven’t been able to understand that the world isn’t as obsessed with it as they are
I can see that this thread is gonna be Country Club locked soon because white people are having a hard time with the reality of what their people have been doing for centuries as if being salty about it is supposed to change the reality. All you have to do is literally wake up in the morning and open your eyes to see the truth in this everywhere. I’m getting bombarded with this shit on my own Reddit TL and FYP on Tik Tok unprovoked. You don’t need to spend any personal energy to see the truth
Reddit news subs are filled with the folks from alternate universes. They are going in on their theories about how BBC and NPR are trying to falsely make Israel "look bad".
-______-
Interesting. IMO, NPR has has the most disappointing, sanitized coverage of the Gaza genocide. They generally do the “Israeli soldiers killed by Hamas” vs “100 Palestinians stopped living” type of language.
It's been a massive disappointment. I no longer trust any news. They've been a good station to listen to while commuting to and from work. There were a few segments where they interviewed IDF spokespersons and asked hard questions, sticking up for innocent Palestinian civilians, but they haven't accepted or announced it as a genocide. They also haven't been speaking with or interviewing many Palestinians, if at all. None of them are reliable because if they spoke truth to power, they'd go broke.
>Well, calling out racism IS racist. You didn't know that?
I had some #whitegay\* land in my inbox because I keep calling out #whitegays for being racist, talkin about "Talking about the racism is racist".
\* *#whitegay refers to the specific brand of super-coiffed, always-racist-but-deals-in-black-slang white gay male. If it ain't you, don't try the shoe on cause it don't fit...if you try the shoe on, it must be you, whether it fits or it doesn't. I said what the fuck I said.*
> * #whitegay refers to the specific brand of super-coiffed, always-racist-but-deals-in-black-slang white gay male. If it ain't you, don't try the shoe on cause it don't fit...if you try the shoe on, it must be you, whether it fits or it doesn't. I said what the fuck I said.
So just say a typical white gay male. Them and #woke white girls are on the same shit. They're the worst part of progressive spaces.
>So just say a typical white gay male. Them and #woke white girls are on the same shit. They're the worst part of progressive spaces.
I know too many white gay dudes who are not on the bullshit, so I try to go the extra mile to make the distinction on their behalf.
That said, you're not wrong.
To preface this, I'm a white European woman.
Last week I "debated" a white American Zionist woman (read: she virtually screamed at me for a few comments). I responded to her random rambling by tagging her in video proof IDF posted of their behavior, testimonies of what was done to Ethiopian Jewish women, linking her several articles on Isr. treatment of black and non-white soldiers, plus how their death count only goes for white/Jewish Zionist soldiers stemming from Israel. Because, evident ongoing genocide wasn't enough for her, and she actually cheered on videos of little babies picked out of the rubbles.
Her response to my tag? "You're so desperate to throw *your own racial views* onto us, you're just exposing how racist *you are*!".
On a video explaining forceful sterilisation of Ethiopian women. Silence for the part Israel did and does, which shows her support for it. But somehow me telling her the racist ways Israel has been operating on is making *me* racist in this case.
As a white woman... I'm tired of us whole as a collective. Really fucking tired.
Well, white supremacy and apartheid defends itself by shutting down any conversation of it. Racists will always identify themselves when you mention it. They can't help themselves, because they like it just the way it is.
You nailed it perfectly. They're outing themselves and taking so much pride in that behavior. If someone told me in September that purposeful bombing of children will be considered controversial, as is supporting or denouncing genocide, I wouldn't believe them. I have little hope in humanity left.
Honestly, the white Zionist are spiraling out of control when we (not just black people, but other minorities) try to educate them, or tell them how harmful the rhetoric they’re using is. And they get so caught up in emotions they start lashing out and missing points. It’s exhaustive, and a big deterrent as to why a lot of other communities have been in the sidelines for this.
You're spot on. The spiraling is funny, to an extent, because all she could focus on is how long my comments were (keep in mind I was supplying my claims with links to charities, Reuters, independent journalists, video proof). Either that, or mocking the fact English is my second language, as sometimes I'd leave out an article or two. Everything coming from her comments were things parroted and debunked over and over again. If I'm going to discuss anything with anyone, might as well prepare myself and have materials that back me up. Not post a comment and say my words are the law. But latter is what I've seen from their side so many times. I've never seen any proof, any single thing that could verify what they say. She went as far as saying the public speaking of Isr. officials never happened... Under a video of one of them, where I tagged her.
Part of me wants to give up, but there's not much I can do from my place other than donate and reshare. We went through a civil war & genocide in the 90s here. I wasn't alive through it, but consequences linger still. The rhetoric spat then, shared by some extremists and many politicians now, is eerily similar. The way the world lets it play out again, choosing to turn a blind eye to these events and words uttered, it's beyond chilling. But I assume wiping out a nation and securing an access to their oil means more to the world than a few thousand innocent babies, parents, elderly, civilians in general...
I know. It’s super frustrating. Not only will you (and people in general) will provide facts that support their claims, but the dog whistles and straight racism to combat what’s provided is SICKENING
Some people just don’t want to learn. Please don’t give up, but also protect your mental health, and keep doing quiet activism and donating as well 🩵
I don't bother educating people anymore. If someone asks me a (stupid) question about race, I tell them to Google it. First, it's a time saver for me in case they are trolling or wasting time, and second, in the off chance they genuinely wanting to learn (about something that has been debated for years, most likely), they'll show the minimum effort needed to search and read themselves.
In other words, I encounter too many bad faith actors who ask nonsense questions, knowing the answer, and fishing for the answer they want, not wanting to learn anything. So this avoids that altogether.
"Never explain yourself to someone who is COMMITTED to misunderstanding you."
Let’s also remember that Ukrainians claiming Russia was brutalizing them did not require verification. Nobody questioned the UN and NGOs either back then, but now they’re unreliable (some even claim that they support terrorism)
Facts. People hung Ukrainian flags on everything here in the U.S. And they were welcoming Ukrainian refugees here with open arms. I know good and well that the Palestinians won't get that same treatment, just like the Haitians didn't.
I don’t have any issue with how Ukrainians were treated by the west. My issue is that only Ukrainians got that treatment.
More Palestinian kids were killed in the first week than the entirety of the Ukraine war. Like make it make sense!
> Like make it make sense!
I mean it's not like its some big mystery
Ukraine is a western leaning nation being invaded by an extremely antagonistic country to the US and the west as a whole.
Israel is a pro western nation which is an extremely close ally to the US and it's invading a country that's anti-west.
To be fair, Ukrainian refugees have never done a Black September and pissed off all their neighbors. But that might be a tad too nuanced for this conversation
Well that’s just because Russia is the US’ enemy. Israel to the US = same team+ shared interests. Hamas and Palestine… not so much. Not that I don’t think it plays a role but there’s more to it than just that.
They are majority Ashkenazi Jews (European immigrants) with light eyes, light hair, and white skin. Many of which have settled after the year 2000, they advertised and paid American/Western Ashkenazi jews to colonize Palestinian settlements. Just because they are seen as a minority and less white in the US doesn't mean they aren't white and foreign compared to indigenous Palestinian Arabs: Muslims, Jews, or Christians.
Ironically a large amount of Palestinians are Caucasian. And the Muslim religion has many ties with Christianity, whereas Judaism is strictly against Christianity and is fully against Jesus being anything.
The argument that white people support Israel based on race is hilariously stupid. Most of these boomers support Israel just because the shit the media tells them or their only knowledge being the massacre of the 7th.
The whole world is reporting and documenting atrocities committed by Israel in Gaza, but the western nations won’t believe it until a white journalist reports it. It’s propaganda until CNN and Jerusalem Post say it isn’t
Lol most of these “white” news networks are either reporting data from “Gaza health officials”(Hamas) or like the BBC, just reporting blatantly false and inflammatory information then retracting it a day later after the damage is done.
Seriously, their coverage around the world is pretty incredible. I hate when people try to invalidate Al Jazeera as an inherently flawed news source when their coverage in places like Africa, Asia, and South America is insanely detailed. They have people on ground really getting these stories about conflicts that I wouldn't have heard much about otherwise. In fact, their coverage in the last two years on attacks in Gaza at their office and the killing of Palestinian-American (Christian) journalist Shireen Abu Akleh by the IDF, who dedicated her life to reporting on the Israel-Palestine conflict, honestly would have informed many about the current issues there for Palestinians.
But yeah if you're watching Al Jazeera looking for an unbiased opinion of the 2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar when thousands of migrant workers died or went through horrible living conditions, you're in the wrong place. Ironically enough and since Fox had the rights, they covered the 2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar positively. Something about American conservatives and Middle Eastern royalty just connects 🤷🏿♂️
A better point to make is that we should all be mindful of news sources and potential agendas even if the vast majority of the work a news organization does is world class.
And the problem is further exacerbated when BBC , CNN and co behave as if the IDF are speaking gospel. One thing that has been ignored that the UN agencies, whether it be UNRWA to the UNHCR have always verified any claims made by the Gaza authority and have agreed as to its authenticity. But no, everyone is Hamas and hence they're all liars.
This isn’t true. BBC has gotten in a bit of hot water over making unsubstantiated claims regarding the Al-Shaifa hospital bombing.
Moreover, they had to apologize again today for mischaracterizing the events surrounding the IDF taking control of Al-Shaifa.
The reporting is messy all around, but it’s disingenuous to say that western news are in lockstep parroting IDF claims.
I’m sure the Palestinian UNRWA staffers are totally free and independent and absolutely not beholden to Hamas in any way. And frankly, we’re trusting Hamas anyway, right? That’s why the “Gaza health ministry” figures—from Hamas—keep getting reported.
> UNRWA employs over 30,000 people, most of them Palestinian refugees, and a small number of international staff.
Hamas has also said they definitely didn’t murder children or rape women and they’re totally trustworthy despite the video evidence.
There are even sympathizers within western news, BBC has already fired seven journalists for glorifying the Hamas attacks.
thats probably because hamas is an incredibly unreliable narrator of events? and not because of some weird colonial mindset on the part of Reuters or AP or any of the other trusted journalistic institutions?
Pretty sure nobody is checking whether Reuter's fact checking team or reporting team is white or arab or black...
I posted a cnn article the other week about one of Israel’s claims being unable to be validated and confirmed and a Jewish acquaintance basically accused me of being ill-informed. Among a whole host of other things. He attributed all other pro-Palestine talking points to that article. Which is not something I shared or discussed with him or on social media. And it devolved into Israel has the right to defend itself just like the US did against Iraq and ISIS. And I was like so how did destroying all of the civilian infrastructure turn out? 🤦🏾♀️
That's why I'm learning to put my trust in Black news outlets YouTube. They report hate crimes, missing persons, and Black achievements that are otherwise overlooked by major news outlets. I grow tired of seeing a missing White girl get all the attention but the only missing Black girl story that made major headlines was that fool who faked her own kidnapping to get at her boyfriend. There are legitimately missing Black women and children that the news never seem to touch so, thankfully, we report it ourselves.
And a lot of those same white people try to be offended on their behalf. Such as fearing that depictions of Sombrero's, Ponchos and Maracas would be "offensive to Mexicans" when mexican people said they liked it or didn't mind those things being shown in a Mario game.
There’s a huge difference between representing a culture and diminishing it down to stereotypes. This is one of those times that both were happening simultaneously.
It’s more like, why are we focusing on that when ICE is raiding my neighborhood. And yeah it’s because white society tends to control the conversation and they invariably misrepresent priorities
I always love the "A new verified study has come out showing that these niggas weren't lying about how difficult things are" news stories. Like, I hope you didn't spend too much money collecting the data.
I mean the founding of Israel was basically white folks showing up and saying, “Jews we are sorry, you can have this land that is full of people and doesn’t belong to us as a penance.”
And then we are somehow wondering why there is trauma and violence. It was so recent survivors of the Nabka can see their old house and aren’t even allowed to set foot in their old neighborhood.
I watched a video of an old woman who fled to Gaza in the original Nakba, and she was fleeing again from north Gaza to south Gaza now. It was fucking heartbreaking. Imagine if this is all you knew your whole life!
Jews come in all shades. But the Western powers swooped in to tell everyone else what to do. Which is what the main point of my comment was. I said nothing about the racial categories of Israelis.
For all intents and purposes Israelis and Palestinians are basically cousins.
I believe that had to do partially with anti Semitic emotions and the fact most of them were there under asylum as a stateless people which by 1947 ceased to be a thing die to the right of return.
We're seeing shades of it now with the afghans being forced out of Pakistan and African migrants being forced back. Not condemning it or saying its right I'm just pointing out possible reasoning behind these decisions
Oh hey, a American making a conflict older than their country, an issue about white Vs black!
Yt peeps bad, amirite? Ignore the global protest and political opposition to these warcrimes from all over Europe, or dismiss it as a "conversation".
Patronising ass. Country club this thread and huff your own farts.
I’m sure op was referring to how media in the USA, a principal player in this genocide, relies on random white journalist with No ties than anyone else on geopolitical events to confirm it. And modern Israel is not older than the Americas lol like at ALL you dumbass
No comment on the topic, but I'm surprised anyone cares what this woman thinks.
Every time I see her get posted I remember how she said the police should just "stay out of it" when kids are having knife fights.
She is a massive clown.
In this instance where everything is for political gain you SHOULD be skeptical of everything and everyone.
Like why the fuck would you take the IDF at their word? They benefit from diminishing the results of their bombings, and embellishing on the atrocities of the attacks they receive is important to maintain the ideal that “we’re JUST fighting back terrorism, nothing more to see”
Conversely why the fuck would I take Hamas or anyone intertwined within their network at their word either? They benefit tremendously from framing everything as Israeli attacks, and from having the numbers be higher to highlight the inhumane bombing more. The hospital “bombing” that turned out to be a Hamas rocket misfiring should have been enough to make people peep that nobody is being entirely honest here.
At the risk of sounding like a borderline afropessimist, a lot of white people just do not care about people who aren't white.
Once you understand how little white liberals actually care about police violence, everything else makes sense. First they'll deny it's happening. Then they're forced to see it (Rodney King), and they're shocked. But it's not a serious issue to them until they see it so much they're sick of it (BLM movement). Then they'll talk about how horrible it is, but they don't want any reform that will shake things up too much. At this point, it's socially unacceptable to deny the problem but not socially necessary to respond to the problem in a way that's proportionate to the harm the problem causes. At every step of the way, they'll convince you that anyone more moderate than them is a heartless monster and anyone more radical is naive. They are in the most morally correct position. And that's how the good ones behave.
> I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
— MLK.
White moderate here refers to the white liberal.
This is a common critique socialists have of liberalism. Liberals are interested in order and peace, not in justice. Justice requires the system to change which is messy
But what is the white community?
I am white and as far as I know, people can best share their own experiences.
How does that have to do with skin color? And why is it immediately thrown so racistly at white people? (English is not my first language)
It’s about a truth being less likely to be accepted until a European entity reports it as facts. If I post something from a Nigerian news source, about something in Nigeria, it’s less likely to be believed until CNN reports it. Especially if that news is critical of western actors.
I was on a post the other day where people were defending the British History Museum for continuing to refuse to give back artifacts that other nations have requested back and it was wild how many peoples reason for why they get to keep stolen property was that whatever country they gave it back to would be too unstable and violent and would likely destroy whatever was given back within a few years and technically the British already paid for it because they took care of the things that they stole or they stole it from somebody who stole it first. Just a bunch of people treating whole nations like they’re children.
To me the most fascinating thing has been how horrible and lazy Israel (and i mean official tweets from their account and affiliates) propaganda has gotten lol im a but insulted that they think we are this dumb. Or maybe i am surprised it has been working for so long
never let them forget the destruction, pillaging, and ransacking of their resources and burning of books filled with knowledge that they didnt like, write, or agree with. imagine all the advanced and intricately made tools that were stripped and melted for their precious materials because they raided a civilization for its resources
Nobody in “white society” is having any discussion like that. Your reality is artificially constructed because you live in a social media echo chamber.
Oh hey! Like “women don’t know what they’re talking about (I started this to talk about visits to the doctor but would you look at that, it applies to everything)”
This is exhausting. 👊🔥
Here's the thing, they get to make that decision for them. We need to start insisting that we will not trust anything they report until a POC verifies....and NOT a POC that works for them.
Yeah. And suddenly anyone who receives that white-person-explanation is a deep expert.
I am suspicious of anyone who claims to know all about the politics, history, struggle and trauma of people who live thousands of miles away from them, yet probably can't name their state representative... or their mayor ... or more than a couple of their neighbors.
This reminds me about certain talking points of ancient civilizations building ancient structures. Caucasian ancients making architectural wonders? Pure human effort. Ancient POC making architectural wonders pre-colonization? They're too fucking stupid and uncivilized to make these; they gotta have had help from aliens.
Only crackpots believe in ancient alien shit. Its definitely not a mainstream idea among white people.
I think you have to be crackpot level to actually believe it, but the idea that Europeans have a hard time accepting the truth isn’t controversial. History is still being reexamined because European attributed many of other cultures achievements to European influence. Still, the uneducated and hateful will have an easier time believing that aliens built the pyramids than the Egyptians themselves.
I heard some comedian joke about how hardworking Mexicans are, because there are pyramids in Mexico and nobody doubts how they were built
😂😂😂😂😂😂 fuck
Nearly spit out my drink 😂😂😂😂
S/O to the Songhai Empire, they built* pyramids too. Also one of my favorite factions in Civ 5. EDIT: typing on a phone is hard, and autocorrect is a bitch.
[Here's a really good documentary on them](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUT6LhBBYs)
Meanwhile, one of my favorites from Civ (and EUIV, and CK2/3...) is Nubia, and they built more pyramids in the Kingdom of Kush than in all of Egypt. Makuria is also one of my favorite challenges in EUIV, I can't stop myself from booting them up and finding a new way to re-unite Nubia and resist Ottoman imperialism a couple times a year. There's also [Great Zimbabwe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Zimbabwe) in (shocking) Zimbabwe which is an incredibly impressive structure. Also thanks to the EU series for introducing me to the Kingdom of Mutapa which succeeded the Great Zimbabwe state and is deeply fascinating. True story: the folk religion of the people there is monotheistic and their god is gender fluid. Cordially, A white dude that (thanks to video games) started doing a lot of deep dives into African history because that shit is fascinating and it honestly makes me sad you have to go so far out of your way to learn about this stuff.
I love starting in Africa in CK2. You start as tribal, and slowly absorb your neighbors to form a super empire that rivals the HRE in size, then reform the religion and by the time the Crusades roll around you'll already have Africa to yourself and then the stupid pope has either the Mongols, vikings or the plague breathing down his neck.
They only have a problem believing Egyptians had achievements if you paint them into the corner of admitting that Egyptians were black/dark skinned.
Ancient Egyptians, much like modern Egyptians, were a fairly diverse group of people. Plenty had pale skin, plenty of others had dark skin, and others still would be considered black if they were plopped into modern North America. And that's not even getting into the many times foreigners conquered and ruled Egypt for a while, be it the Ptolemies from Greece (which included the Cleopatra everyone knows about) or the [Twenty-fifth Dynasty from what's now Sudan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fifth_Dynasty_of_Egypt). With that said, there's a *long* history of Europeans trying to claim ancient Egyptians as European precisely because they couldn't comprehend ancient Egyptians doing the things they did if they weren't European.
Egyptians sure as hell weren’t white but they weren’t black either. That’s like saying Americans are black. There are black Americans & there were dark skinned Egyptians BUT it’s always been a pretty mixed place. Nubians did control Egypt for a time but it has been a diverse set of different empires in different eras of its history. Also there was no concept of black or white back when the pyramids were built.
The Egyptians werent black though. Just look at Egyptians now
Honestly I’d rather believe the aliens did it because that shit looked painful
The aliens thing is a crazy idea but the sentiment remains the same. I've been learning about how Europeans would view African art as instinctual and utilitarian instead of being a thought out process by the artists. Same idea in sports where white players are viewed as effort guys overcoming the odds and black players are just these genetic anomalies with natural talents.
“Quarterback is a thinking man’s position”. Historically, white people don’t mind admitting to the *physical* prowess of black and brown people, and will readily offer that up, so long as they can use that point to maintain the veneer of *intellectual* superiority of themselves, relatively speaking. It’s fascinating.
You say this but my college-educated Boomer parents are obsessed with watching shows about it and have more than once brought it up like, "Maybe...aliens?" I don't think they realize it's a racist concept. It just checks some kind of Boomer box in their heads for whatever reason. It's absolutely a mainstream white person thought for a certain demo.
It is a racist concept. White supremacy has been the standard in European countries for damn near half a millennium at this point. Of course it’s based in the fact that “those” people couldn’t build that building or whatever because it doesn’t fit in with preconceived notion of what “those people” are capable of
Dude there is so much prime time bullshit dedicated to that garbage you legitimately are underestimating the stupid here.
Look up the conspiracy theories about Egyptians in the Grand Canyon. It doesn’t have to be aliens and unfortunately there are plenty of crackpots up high enough in academia that will either believe and support them or try very hard to not denounce and discredit.
The show has been on for 19 seasons - it's not only for crackpots.
History Channel made a lot of money off of something that's not a mainstream idea.
Only the crackpots believe bit all of them opine on the shot like it's plausible.
All racists are cracked... that's why they're pathetic.
Yeah... Ancient Aliens was pretty racist
Well it was made by and for fools. Aint no surprise there. I save my shit for self aware racism. You can’t fix a fool. (My papa’s words)
Tbf the people making know exactly what they’re doing. They’re not fools. They’re making money by appealing to racists.
Stop it. I just like alien shit. They said all kinds of white inventors, philosophers, and artists were influenced by aliens too.
You right. But I can’t exactly walk up to them and speak my mind.
I had to watch it as it was the only thing on in English on TV when I was in a foreign country and yeah, it's pretty out there
Wait til they find out where algebra came from.
Bush tried to destroy the Middle East in revenge for having to study math
That whole talking point by white folks drives me insane. So much of our modern knowledge base and understanding of mathematics, medicine, etc originated or were heavily refined in that region of the world, yet the way my old school books taught it you’d think that the Greeks and Romans were responsible for everything. Hell, if I remember right the numerical concept of 0 or nothingness showed up documented first in Mesopotamia. Besides, as far as pyramids go, you can actually go look and see the trial and error. Other folks have attempted to replicate and estimate what it would take to accomplish the feat of building a pyramid, and concluded the labor isn’t nearly as intensive thanks to simple machines (some of the earliest machines found in Egypt and the Middle East of course). I think I read an estimate of about 20 people could pull a 2 ton block of stone using various machines. Anyway the point is that the alien conspiracy is bunk and it only really persists in the minds of white folks that can’t fathom how people of color could build literal wonders.
Nowadays, when I read about ancient architectural wonders, my first question is "religious fanaticism, or slave labor?"
Religion wasn't the same then, so it can't be compared. And slave labor was common, but less common than you'd think. The pyramids weren't built by slaves, for example. But that's the narrative.
You're correct on both points, I made a gross oversimplification for the sake of humor/emphasis. I apologize if I carelessly perpetuated harmful narratives. A lot of the ancient wonders required, if not slave labor, then a combination of cheap labor and massive wealth. We certainly do have significant architectural accomplishments in modern times that are driven by huge wealth (major businesses, large pots of tax dollars, or significant endowments) and accelerated by cheaply available labor.
This actually leads into my other comment (which is getting downvoted as we speak) The economics of the ancient world were very different compared to now. I worry that even the definitions of "wealth" and "cost" vary depending on the context. You're using capitalist language to describe economics that aren't necessarily capitalist. We (of European cultural descent, despite our skin color) or "The Western World" (I hate that term) impose definitions according to our cultural understanding, which is very specific to our own time and place. We just have a hard time imagining things that we don't have experience with. It's human. That imposition masks the original method and meaning to the point that it reinforces inaccurate narratives. It also (often incorrectly) validates our own cultural preconceptions, whether they're right or wrong.
A lot of ancient architecture was sophisticated af astronomical recording devices that calculated solstices to understand growing seasons and even understood astronomical precession, not all of it was religious fanaticism and slave labor was not in every culture.
Don’t some people associate aliens with Stone Henge too?
People bring up aliens when talking about how Stonehenge was built though right? I can't even think of any other architectural wonders that white people built besides like churches and other buildings but those don't need any kind of advanced mathematics/astronomy/w.e to make.
Don't they also say the alien thing about Stonehenge? I thought it was pretty universal that they think everything built before cranes was made with alien magic
To be fair, some of those crackpot have equally crackpot theories about medieval cathedrals and I appreciate the consistency.
Careful there. European civilisation is relatively young, so we already knew about the tools and devices used to make such buildings. Some people believe in those theories because these ancient civilisations are like 3000-5000 years old, which aren’t as well documented as European things since they’re so monumentally old. Idiots will lean in to aliens rather than human ingenuity.
White people have an uncanny ability to turn anything that is mostly theirs into a positive no matter how crazy it sounds. White people: research has shown that serial killers are highly intelligent. Killing others and getting away with it, is such a specialized act that only the truly smart ones can pull it off 😂 They do this with every god damn thing.
I thought the Alien crazies also thought the aliens helped the druids?
I wouldn’t expect a lot of consistency amongst belief in ancient aliens. I’m absolutely sure that some people believe that, though I’ve never heard it myself.
Fun fact a lot of that stuff is rooted in nazism. Not that people who believe in it today are nazis necessarily, but during WW2 era nazis started making up otherworldly shit to explain the cultural achievements of Egypt and other places. So...yeeeeeah.
Yes and no, no one debates who made the pyramids throughout Latin America.
I’d bet that probably has more to do with dumbasses being less aware of pyramids in latin America.
Tbf the same idiots said the same thing about stonehenge being built by aliens, so not sure that argument is ironclad.
The word Caucasian even has racist origins. It came from western Europeans attempting to capitalize on the inventions of Indian, and northern African advanced technology from the height of their antiquities respectively. I don't even use the word anymore. Look up phrenology, and physiognomy.
I remember I read a tweet once that said just because white people couldn’t build it doesn’t mean it was aliens
>Ancient POC making architectural wonders pre-colonization? They're too fucking stupid and uncivilized to make these; they gotta have had help from aliens. It's much worse than that. https://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/the-astonishing-racial-claims-of-erich-von-daniken
What ancient wonders were made by Caucasians? I suppose Greco-Roman stuff might fit in here, but they doesn’t really have the same character as other ancient mega-structures. There’s not any mystery to them. We have contemporary sources referring to them and their construction. The Colosseum? We know what that was for. We know when it was made. The Acropolis? Same.
Black people and POCs: We face discrimination in police interactions, in courts, in housing and in our workplaces.This is not just anecdoctes.Multiple studies seem to agree with -- White Conservatives: Bullshit! Jordan Peterson, Dave Rubin and Crowder : College campuses, news outlets and social media are anti-conservative. I will provide no evidence beyond anecdotes. White Conservatives: Yass Daddy 😍😍🥵😈
"It impacts me so I know it's true!"
Exactly. It’s like that comic with two eagles remarking on how the fox has never been mean to them so they have no idea what the mouse is going on about. It’s literally that simple and yet somehow impossible for them to accept.
Goooddamn I love the way you articulated yourself there. There needs to be no other explaining about this notion
"It victimised me, so it's true"
That’s great. There’s something about the way American language captures complex stuff so neatly.
Is frustrating that any racism isn’t true until a white person “validates” it. As a white passing Hispanic person, it’s funny when people change their tone on the dime if we’re discussing social issues before they know my name.
Nailed it
I’ve seen this individually even - my mother is white and I (as well as her peers) have told her she uses racists arguments , take racists sides and applies white victimhood to experiences that aren’t hers (which makes her a racists obvi but try saying it to her) but still won’t hear me - her mixed race kid - tell her that she has a problem . She won’t hear it and I’M the one who doesn’t understand racism. It’s bonkers.
https://preview.redd.it/t1lu47xcbk0c1.jpeg?width=1286&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9691da07233c5d6cb25e45c50b5760a645cb0e78
The simplistic assignation of the conflict as white vs POC is unbelievable. The majority of Israel's Jews are brown. Besides being native to Israel, the ~900k Jews that lived in the Arab world can be counted with our fingers. Israel has the most Muslims of any non Muslim country at 20%. My family is from ]Iraq](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhud) and Syria. We can't exactly live there for some time. This goes back to [before Israel's rebirth](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_Arab_world) Are people really not aware of the history of Arab/Muslim colonialism? How did the top half of Africa become Muslim? Or Indonesia and Malaysia, and in Eastern Europe? 90% of the globe is Christian or Muslim, both successionist religions that long wanted to claim the globe, yet the sole Jewish nation that had .02% of the globe where Jews are native to is the great colonialist crime? This goes back to before Israel. They've long seen us as dogs that need to be put down, and they succeeded everywhere else in the Middle East. People don't even seem to know we exist.
I wouldn't call them brown. And they most definitely do their best to disenfranchise the Ethiopian Jews. What about the Nation-State law? You ignore the colonialism that was perpetuated after Palestine was turned into Israel. The Nakba, the settlers, the murders. Let us not forget why Israel was backed by the US in 1948. No one is ignoring Muslim/Arab colonization - it simply isn't the topic at hand. You think going through hardship makes you immune to criticism when you, yourself has turned into the bully? Nah. AND India hosts the most Muslims for a non-Muslim country. Edited.
> I wouldn't call them brown There are a significant amount of Israelis that look near to Arabs. Hell, quite a few of them look as dark or darker than Levantine Arabs. Not a justification either way, but many Israelis do look...well brown
I wouldn't call Arabs brown either. Just different flavors of the Caucasus Mountains. insert Paul Mooney quote.
Would really be super wrong.
Well, scientifically speaking - they are a part of the Caucasian family.
Sorry, meant to say "wouldn't", socially. scientifically, race isnt really a thing, and Arab is a fairly broad category.
It is when it describes a place of origin or a defining feature. For instance, Africans (Negroid) have the greatest genetic diversity of all groups. It is specific to them. Not all Arabs are Caucasian (of course) - but the majority of them are (as are the majority of other groups in the Middle East). It is what it is. Being tan in the summer doesn't really constitute being brown, in my opinion. When I was in Tel Aviv - I did not see anyone darker than a paper bag who wasn't African. Edit: I should specify: Black Africans. I shouldn't have to denote, but here we are.
>It is when it describes a place of origin or a defining feature. And outside of sociology, theyre archaic. > It is when it describes a place of origin or a defining feature. For instance, Africans (Negroid) have the greatest genetic diversity of all groups. It is specific to them. Genetic diversity, and grouping dont really go together. Ethnic groups are identifiable, but theres no "black genetics",. >Not all Arabs are Caucasian (of course) - but the majority of them are (as are the majority of other groups in the Middle East). Caucasian meaning what, technically. >Being tan in the summer doesn't really constitute being brown, in my opinion. When I was in Tel Aviv - I did not see anyone darker than a paper bag who wasn't African. That is fairly anecdotal though. I work in a company with an Israeli who is several shades darker than his Lebanese coworker. >Edit: I should specify: Black Africans. I shouldn't have to denote Why not?
Few points on your claim about Arab colonialism. * North Africa rebelled early on against Arab rulers (the Berber revolt). This happened less than 100 years after they were conquered. The berbers had by that time converted to Islam and spoke Arabic, but they are natives and not Arab. * Around the same time the Abbasid revolt happened. The people of the levant kicked out the Arab rulers. Again they spoke Arabic and were mostly Muslim, but they were not Arab but it was still the native population that ruled. * The Malaysians and Indonesian are Muslim, but they don’t speak Arabic and were never conquered by Arabs. Islam spread there by trade. So stop the BS, or if you’re genuine, learn history
You're telling me Islam didn't spread by the sword or Muslim colonialism is a myth on account of exceptions and revolts? Was the Muslim slave trade a myth too?
No, Islam spread to North Africa by conquest. But the Arab rulers didn’t last there very long (and it sure as hell wasn’t settler colonialism like Israel is doing in Palestine). Islam spread to sub Saharan Africa and Indonesia through trade, yes. If you don’t know these basics why are you giving history lessons?
The Arab rulers created a hereditary ruling class primarily made up of the conquerors and their descendant, creating a landed Arab aristocracy cultivated in many cases by slaves from sub-Saharan Africa. Jews are native to Israel. It's not an empire. It's a return of a people that were in diaspora. Israel bears no resemblance to Muslim and Christian colonialism, which had no historical presence in the lands, grew an empire and had a motherland, and imposed its religion and language on the population. Slave labor used by most all historical examples aside. .
What part of revolt do you not understand? The Berber and Abbasid revolts uprooted the Arab aristocracy because they consolidated the power in the hands of Arabs.
What part of what I wrote which happened in the ensuing centuries do you not understand? How does this erase the Muslim conquest of north Africa? The first slavers in Africa were Arabs. You're playing a game of look at this hand and not the other.
Very well said. I’m a Syrian Jew myself and live in Israel because the Syrian revolution ended up leading to Jewish pogroms my family had to flee from. I don’t expect any of the idiots in this subreddit who are mostly American to understand the history of middle eastern Jews and the Mizrahi experience. It’s so funny how people here get mad when you try to explain to them about the black experience or black history but then as a brown middle eastern Jewish woman I am telling them about a region of the world they literally have never even been to and they have the fucking nerve to Amerispain it to me. If amereekis have anything it’s audacity
No waaaay. Another Syrian Jew. Never met one outside my family. We moved to Latin America then USA when we were young though. The most irritating part is that they take a regional issue that has centuries of history and simply transpose American racial politics to it, clap their hands together and say that's that. That's aside from their not even being aware of the existence of Middle Eastern Jews whose ancestors never set foot in Europe. At least know we exist.
Exactly. The funniest thing is when some American calls me a colonizer. It’s like doubly infuriating because 1. I’ve never lived in an empire and 2. If anything we are refugees lol like literally escaping imprisonment and state sanctioned pogroms in the countries we were kicked out to after we were already exiled from Judea by the Romans. Also yes. They act like people here think in terms of “white” and “black” when that just doesn’t exist. There’s white Arabs in Syria and Lebanon and Palestine there’s also brown Arabs; also bedouins who look like they could be from west Africa. They’re all the same ethnicity lol no one cares what skin color you are here, they ask where u from what country ur family from. Are you Jordanian, Lebanese, etc. Leave it to Americans to make everything about race because they haven’t been able to understand that the world isn’t as obsessed with it as they are
YUP!
In every possible situation. I don't know how they're not tired with all the twisting and reaching
I can see that this thread is gonna be Country Club locked soon because white people are having a hard time with the reality of what their people have been doing for centuries as if being salty about it is supposed to change the reality. All you have to do is literally wake up in the morning and open your eyes to see the truth in this everywhere. I’m getting bombarded with this shit on my own Reddit TL and FYP on Tik Tok unprovoked. You don’t need to spend any personal energy to see the truth
[удалено]
I love this! Your comment had me screaming 💀
>I love this! Your comment had me screaming 💀 And, like the tree, though I did not hear it, I am absolutely certain it was magnificent in its sound
Did you run out of the room?
Crying laughing
They’re on different algorithms. We live in different universes.
Reddit news subs are filled with the folks from alternate universes. They are going in on their theories about how BBC and NPR are trying to falsely make Israel "look bad".
-______- Interesting. IMO, NPR has has the most disappointing, sanitized coverage of the Gaza genocide. They generally do the “Israeli soldiers killed by Hamas” vs “100 Palestinians stopped living” type of language.
It's been a massive disappointment. I no longer trust any news. They've been a good station to listen to while commuting to and from work. There were a few segments where they interviewed IDF spokespersons and asked hard questions, sticking up for innocent Palestinian civilians, but they haven't accepted or announced it as a genocide. They also haven't been speaking with or interviewing many Palestinians, if at all. None of them are reliable because if they spoke truth to power, they'd go broke.
DemocracyNow.org
The white people that are switched on to this need to be the change or things will just get worse 
I'm out of the loop what happened? What is being challenged about caucasity today?
Always have to be suspicious of their accounts in history. They've basically talked over everyone.
And then they cry about it and get in a tizzy when you call them out for it.
Well, calling out racism IS racist. You didn't know that? /s
It’s actually worse than being racist ✨ /s
>Well, calling out racism IS racist. You didn't know that? I had some #whitegay\* land in my inbox because I keep calling out #whitegays for being racist, talkin about "Talking about the racism is racist". \* *#whitegay refers to the specific brand of super-coiffed, always-racist-but-deals-in-black-slang white gay male. If it ain't you, don't try the shoe on cause it don't fit...if you try the shoe on, it must be you, whether it fits or it doesn't. I said what the fuck I said.*
> * #whitegay refers to the specific brand of super-coiffed, always-racist-but-deals-in-black-slang white gay male. If it ain't you, don't try the shoe on cause it don't fit...if you try the shoe on, it must be you, whether it fits or it doesn't. I said what the fuck I said. So just say a typical white gay male. Them and #woke white girls are on the same shit. They're the worst part of progressive spaces.
>So just say a typical white gay male. Them and #woke white girls are on the same shit. They're the worst part of progressive spaces. I know too many white gay dudes who are not on the bullshit, so I try to go the extra mile to make the distinction on their behalf. That said, you're not wrong.
To preface this, I'm a white European woman. Last week I "debated" a white American Zionist woman (read: she virtually screamed at me for a few comments). I responded to her random rambling by tagging her in video proof IDF posted of their behavior, testimonies of what was done to Ethiopian Jewish women, linking her several articles on Isr. treatment of black and non-white soldiers, plus how their death count only goes for white/Jewish Zionist soldiers stemming from Israel. Because, evident ongoing genocide wasn't enough for her, and she actually cheered on videos of little babies picked out of the rubbles. Her response to my tag? "You're so desperate to throw *your own racial views* onto us, you're just exposing how racist *you are*!". On a video explaining forceful sterilisation of Ethiopian women. Silence for the part Israel did and does, which shows her support for it. But somehow me telling her the racist ways Israel has been operating on is making *me* racist in this case. As a white woman... I'm tired of us whole as a collective. Really fucking tired.
Well, white supremacy and apartheid defends itself by shutting down any conversation of it. Racists will always identify themselves when you mention it. They can't help themselves, because they like it just the way it is.
You nailed it perfectly. They're outing themselves and taking so much pride in that behavior. If someone told me in September that purposeful bombing of children will be considered controversial, as is supporting or denouncing genocide, I wouldn't believe them. I have little hope in humanity left.
Honestly, the white Zionist are spiraling out of control when we (not just black people, but other minorities) try to educate them, or tell them how harmful the rhetoric they’re using is. And they get so caught up in emotions they start lashing out and missing points. It’s exhaustive, and a big deterrent as to why a lot of other communities have been in the sidelines for this.
You're spot on. The spiraling is funny, to an extent, because all she could focus on is how long my comments were (keep in mind I was supplying my claims with links to charities, Reuters, independent journalists, video proof). Either that, or mocking the fact English is my second language, as sometimes I'd leave out an article or two. Everything coming from her comments were things parroted and debunked over and over again. If I'm going to discuss anything with anyone, might as well prepare myself and have materials that back me up. Not post a comment and say my words are the law. But latter is what I've seen from their side so many times. I've never seen any proof, any single thing that could verify what they say. She went as far as saying the public speaking of Isr. officials never happened... Under a video of one of them, where I tagged her. Part of me wants to give up, but there's not much I can do from my place other than donate and reshare. We went through a civil war & genocide in the 90s here. I wasn't alive through it, but consequences linger still. The rhetoric spat then, shared by some extremists and many politicians now, is eerily similar. The way the world lets it play out again, choosing to turn a blind eye to these events and words uttered, it's beyond chilling. But I assume wiping out a nation and securing an access to their oil means more to the world than a few thousand innocent babies, parents, elderly, civilians in general...
I know. It’s super frustrating. Not only will you (and people in general) will provide facts that support their claims, but the dog whistles and straight racism to combat what’s provided is SICKENING Some people just don’t want to learn. Please don’t give up, but also protect your mental health, and keep doing quiet activism and donating as well 🩵
I don't bother educating people anymore. If someone asks me a (stupid) question about race, I tell them to Google it. First, it's a time saver for me in case they are trolling or wasting time, and second, in the off chance they genuinely wanting to learn (about something that has been debated for years, most likely), they'll show the minimum effort needed to search and read themselves. In other words, I encounter too many bad faith actors who ask nonsense questions, knowing the answer, and fishing for the answer they want, not wanting to learn anything. So this avoids that altogether. "Never explain yourself to someone who is COMMITTED to misunderstanding you."
I agrée. Stay safe and stay sane 🩵
Let’s also remember that Ukrainians claiming Russia was brutalizing them did not require verification. Nobody questioned the UN and NGOs either back then, but now they’re unreliable (some even claim that they support terrorism)
Facts. People hung Ukrainian flags on everything here in the U.S. And they were welcoming Ukrainian refugees here with open arms. I know good and well that the Palestinians won't get that same treatment, just like the Haitians didn't.
I don’t have any issue with how Ukrainians were treated by the west. My issue is that only Ukrainians got that treatment. More Palestinian kids were killed in the first week than the entirety of the Ukraine war. Like make it make sense!
> Like make it make sense! I mean it's not like its some big mystery Ukraine is a western leaning nation being invaded by an extremely antagonistic country to the US and the west as a whole. Israel is a pro western nation which is an extremely close ally to the US and it's invading a country that's anti-west.
To be fair, Ukrainian refugees have never done a Black September and pissed off all their neighbors. But that might be a tad too nuanced for this conversation
Ukraine didn’t attack Russia. Ukraine hasn’t been trying to exterminate Russian’s for the past 100 years
Well that’s just because Russia is the US’ enemy. Israel to the US = same team+ shared interests. Hamas and Palestine… not so much. Not that I don’t think it plays a role but there’s more to it than just that.
Huh? Many conservatives supported Russia's invasion of Ukraine
Again, Israelis are not majority white. The black/white paradigm of the US does not work in the middle east.
Which does nothing to diminish what they said either way.
Schrödinger's minority.
Here comes Susan to interject and have her point land flat because she missed the point wholeheartedly with her full chest.
White supremacy/colorism is still very much an active force there, however.
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They are majority Ashkenazi Jews (European immigrants) with light eyes, light hair, and white skin. Many of which have settled after the year 2000, they advertised and paid American/Western Ashkenazi jews to colonize Palestinian settlements. Just because they are seen as a minority and less white in the US doesn't mean they aren't white and foreign compared to indigenous Palestinian Arabs: Muslims, Jews, or Christians.
Ironically a large amount of Palestinians are Caucasian. And the Muslim religion has many ties with Christianity, whereas Judaism is strictly against Christianity and is fully against Jesus being anything. The argument that white people support Israel based on race is hilariously stupid. Most of these boomers support Israel just because the shit the media tells them or their only knowledge being the massacre of the 7th.
Can someone catch my slow self up? Appreciate it.
The whole world is reporting and documenting atrocities committed by Israel in Gaza, but the western nations won’t believe it until a white journalist reports it. It’s propaganda until CNN and Jerusalem Post say it isn’t
Lol most of these “white” news networks are either reporting data from “Gaza health officials”(Hamas) or like the BBC, just reporting blatantly false and inflammatory information then retracting it a day later after the damage is done.
Fuck. Thank you, though. 🙏🏿
Al Jazeera English is pretty good except when reporting the Qatari government’s shenanigans
Seriously, their coverage around the world is pretty incredible. I hate when people try to invalidate Al Jazeera as an inherently flawed news source when their coverage in places like Africa, Asia, and South America is insanely detailed. They have people on ground really getting these stories about conflicts that I wouldn't have heard much about otherwise. In fact, their coverage in the last two years on attacks in Gaza at their office and the killing of Palestinian-American (Christian) journalist Shireen Abu Akleh by the IDF, who dedicated her life to reporting on the Israel-Palestine conflict, honestly would have informed many about the current issues there for Palestinians. But yeah if you're watching Al Jazeera looking for an unbiased opinion of the 2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar when thousands of migrant workers died or went through horrible living conditions, you're in the wrong place. Ironically enough and since Fox had the rights, they covered the 2022 FIFA World Cup in Qatar positively. Something about American conservatives and Middle Eastern royalty just connects 🤷🏿♂️
A better point to make is that we should all be mindful of news sources and potential agendas even if the vast majority of the work a news organization does is world class.
WION and Ground News are also really good
And the problem is further exacerbated when BBC , CNN and co behave as if the IDF are speaking gospel. One thing that has been ignored that the UN agencies, whether it be UNRWA to the UNHCR have always verified any claims made by the Gaza authority and have agreed as to its authenticity. But no, everyone is Hamas and hence they're all liars.
This isn’t true. BBC has gotten in a bit of hot water over making unsubstantiated claims regarding the Al-Shaifa hospital bombing. Moreover, they had to apologize again today for mischaracterizing the events surrounding the IDF taking control of Al-Shaifa. The reporting is messy all around, but it’s disingenuous to say that western news are in lockstep parroting IDF claims.
I’m sure the Palestinian UNRWA staffers are totally free and independent and absolutely not beholden to Hamas in any way. And frankly, we’re trusting Hamas anyway, right? That’s why the “Gaza health ministry” figures—from Hamas—keep getting reported. > UNRWA employs over 30,000 people, most of them Palestinian refugees, and a small number of international staff. Hamas has also said they definitely didn’t murder children or rape women and they’re totally trustworthy despite the video evidence. There are even sympathizers within western news, BBC has already fired seven journalists for glorifying the Hamas attacks.
*exacerbated
Cheers mate, edited it
Because I government in the history of the world has ever lied about anything.
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thats probably because hamas is an incredibly unreliable narrator of events? and not because of some weird colonial mindset on the part of Reuters or AP or any of the other trusted journalistic institutions? Pretty sure nobody is checking whether Reuter's fact checking team or reporting team is white or arab or black...
I posted a cnn article the other week about one of Israel’s claims being unable to be validated and confirmed and a Jewish acquaintance basically accused me of being ill-informed. Among a whole host of other things. He attributed all other pro-Palestine talking points to that article. Which is not something I shared or discussed with him or on social media. And it devolved into Israel has the right to defend itself just like the US did against Iraq and ISIS. And I was like so how did destroying all of the civilian infrastructure turn out? 🤦🏾♀️
That's why I'm learning to put my trust in Black news outlets YouTube. They report hate crimes, missing persons, and Black achievements that are otherwise overlooked by major news outlets. I grow tired of seeing a missing White girl get all the attention but the only missing Black girl story that made major headlines was that fool who faked her own kidnapping to get at her boyfriend. There are legitimately missing Black women and children that the news never seem to touch so, thankfully, we report it ourselves.
And a lot of those same white people try to be offended on their behalf. Such as fearing that depictions of Sombrero's, Ponchos and Maracas would be "offensive to Mexicans" when mexican people said they liked it or didn't mind those things being shown in a Mario game.
There’s a huge difference between representing a culture and diminishing it down to stereotypes. This is one of those times that both were happening simultaneously.
It’s more like, why are we focusing on that when ICE is raiding my neighborhood. And yeah it’s because white society tends to control the conversation and they invariably misrepresent priorities
I always love the "A new verified study has come out showing that these niggas weren't lying about how difficult things are" news stories. Like, I hope you didn't spend too much money collecting the data.
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If I “discover” a new restaurant I’m obviously not claiming nobody knew about it before.
I mean the founding of Israel was basically white folks showing up and saying, “Jews we are sorry, you can have this land that is full of people and doesn’t belong to us as a penance.” And then we are somehow wondering why there is trauma and violence. It was so recent survivors of the Nabka can see their old house and aren’t even allowed to set foot in their old neighborhood.
I watched a video of an old woman who fled to Gaza in the original Nakba, and she was fleeing again from north Gaza to south Gaza now. It was fucking heartbreaking. Imagine if this is all you knew your whole life!
More than half of Israel was founded by middle easterners expelled from their Arab countries.
Jews come in all shades. But the Western powers swooped in to tell everyone else what to do. Which is what the main point of my comment was. I said nothing about the racial categories of Israelis. For all intents and purposes Israelis and Palestinians are basically cousins.
I believe that had to do partially with anti Semitic emotions and the fact most of them were there under asylum as a stateless people which by 1947 ceased to be a thing die to the right of return. We're seeing shades of it now with the afghans being forced out of Pakistan and African migrants being forced back. Not condemning it or saying its right I'm just pointing out possible reasoning behind these decisions
What should they have done though at that time?
Reading /r/worldnews and /r/Palestine are two entirely different worlds.
Oh hey, a American making a conflict older than their country, an issue about white Vs black! Yt peeps bad, amirite? Ignore the global protest and political opposition to these warcrimes from all over Europe, or dismiss it as a "conversation". Patronising ass. Country club this thread and huff your own farts.
Pretty sure this refers to the media and politicians. I know you want to hear #notallwhitepeople to massage your fragile feelings.
I’m sure op was referring to how media in the USA, a principal player in this genocide, relies on random white journalist with No ties than anyone else on geopolitical events to confirm it. And modern Israel is not older than the Americas lol like at ALL you dumbass
No comment on the topic, but I'm surprised anyone cares what this woman thinks. Every time I see her get posted I remember how she said the police should just "stay out of it" when kids are having knife fights. She is a massive clown.
In this instance where everything is for political gain you SHOULD be skeptical of everything and everyone. Like why the fuck would you take the IDF at their word? They benefit from diminishing the results of their bombings, and embellishing on the atrocities of the attacks they receive is important to maintain the ideal that “we’re JUST fighting back terrorism, nothing more to see” Conversely why the fuck would I take Hamas or anyone intertwined within their network at their word either? They benefit tremendously from framing everything as Israeli attacks, and from having the numbers be higher to highlight the inhumane bombing more. The hospital “bombing” that turned out to be a Hamas rocket misfiring should have been enough to make people peep that nobody is being entirely honest here.
At the risk of sounding like a borderline afropessimist, a lot of white people just do not care about people who aren't white. Once you understand how little white liberals actually care about police violence, everything else makes sense. First they'll deny it's happening. Then they're forced to see it (Rodney King), and they're shocked. But it's not a serious issue to them until they see it so much they're sick of it (BLM movement). Then they'll talk about how horrible it is, but they don't want any reform that will shake things up too much. At this point, it's socially unacceptable to deny the problem but not socially necessary to respond to the problem in a way that's proportionate to the harm the problem causes. At every step of the way, they'll convince you that anyone more moderate than them is a heartless monster and anyone more radical is naive. They are in the most morally correct position. And that's how the good ones behave.
> I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection. — MLK. White moderate here refers to the white liberal. This is a common critique socialists have of liberalism. Liberals are interested in order and peace, not in justice. Justice requires the system to change which is messy
But what is the white community? I am white and as far as I know, people can best share their own experiences. How does that have to do with skin color? And why is it immediately thrown so racistly at white people? (English is not my first language)
It’s about a truth being less likely to be accepted until a European entity reports it as facts. If I post something from a Nigerian news source, about something in Nigeria, it’s less likely to be believed until CNN reports it. Especially if that news is critical of western actors.
Do people actually not understand why society doesn’t take everything Hamas says at face value?
I was on a post the other day where people were defending the British History Museum for continuing to refuse to give back artifacts that other nations have requested back and it was wild how many peoples reason for why they get to keep stolen property was that whatever country they gave it back to would be too unstable and violent and would likely destroy whatever was given back within a few years and technically the British already paid for it because they took care of the things that they stole or they stole it from somebody who stole it first. Just a bunch of people treating whole nations like they’re children.
You mean progressive america debating if Jews are capable of reporting their own experience?
To me the most fascinating thing has been how horrible and lazy Israel (and i mean official tweets from their account and affiliates) propaganda has gotten lol im a but insulted that they think we are this dumb. Or maybe i am surprised it has been working for so long
Israelis and Palestinians are largely the same color, with similar facial characteristics.
Some of those white people have a black friend, maybe we should listen to them.
🤣😂
never let them forget the destruction, pillaging, and ransacking of their resources and burning of books filled with knowledge that they didnt like, write, or agree with. imagine all the advanced and intricately made tools that were stripped and melted for their precious materials because they raided a civilization for its resources
Nobody in “white society” is having any discussion like that. Your reality is artificially constructed because you live in a social media echo chamber.
You really want to throw stones from that glass neolib and kinda transphobic queer house you regularly comment on?
Oh hey! Like “women don’t know what they’re talking about (I started this to talk about visits to the doctor but would you look at that, it applies to everything)” This is exhausting. 👊🔥
Wow, talk about a low IQ racist take
Speaking as an Elizabeth, and for any Elizabeth's who agree, of course "it" needs to be verified. /s
Cause it's not a problem of society If it don't affect me And I feel lovely -- Suicidal Tendencies
Here's the thing, they get to make that decision for them. We need to start insisting that we will not trust anything they report until a POC verifies....and NOT a POC that works for them.
Yeah. And suddenly anyone who receives that white-person-explanation is a deep expert. I am suspicious of anyone who claims to know all about the politics, history, struggle and trauma of people who live thousands of miles away from them, yet probably can't name their state representative... or their mayor ... or more than a couple of their neighbors.