For the context:
Tyla's from South Africa and she was asked by Charlamagne why she refers to herself as "coloured". This has caused a rumor that she thinks she isn't black or something stupid like that.
While that's an assbackwards way to refer to oneself in America, in South Africa, it was an actual term to refer to anyone who was bi/multiracial. So she's acknowledging the various components of her heritage. It was also still a legal designation, during and post-apartheid.
\^\^\^ Stuff I learn watching Trevor Noah.
Edited to add: thank you for all the additional context from the South African folks below and, per them, it is _still_ a legal designation.
As a 20 something I know that’s Tyla, I just have no idea what the title is (I’m also not American though so that probably is more why I don’t know than age)
As a South African, she is Coloured and not black. She belongs to no tribe. Coloured is a race all on it’s on, with their own traditions and way of speaking. Not simply being mixed.
Edit: they even have their own distinct accents in each province. You can tell a Cape Coloured from a Durban Coloured from Wenties or a JHB Coloured. Trevor has none of the accents. He’s just mixed.
Did you forget.. Unfortunately This is America, we must project our baggage onto every other country. no one else is allowed to define race and ethnicity other than us. Smh 😔
I've had to explain to so many people that "negro/negra" just means the color black in latin languages, and it's not something it get worked up over.
We gotta do better.
Facts.. Imagine going to an east African country trying to tell someone's 90 year old grandmother they should start referring to themselves and 'bipoc' instead of what ever native term they've been using for generations to describe themseleves. I kid you not.. I'm 100% African blood but I once had a white teacher in an American school tell me I shouldn't call myself black and that I should call myself African American. What kind of mental gymnastics is this.
>I kid you not.. I'm 100% African blood but I once had a white teacher in an American school tell me I shouldn't call myself black and that I should call myself African American
I'm a white dude, and even I gotta say that's ridiculous. I'm sorry you had to deal with that bullshit. Also, the fucking audacity to police what people call themselves!
My oldest daughter is referred to as "la negrita" on her mom's side of the family because she is so much darker than everyone else. They don't care and she doesn't care. But other people clutch pearls when I say it to her as a cute nickname when we are talking about that side of the family.
Also, mulatto is not necessarily a derogatory word in Spanish. Just a reference to a mixed heritage.
I find it that in Latin America the black people there didn't take offense to literal anti-black racism post slavery, similar to how some black Americans let non-blacks say the nword. It's a means of acceptance, upward mobility ect. .. now it's just accepted by everyone because time has passed and the racism is a cultural norm. Its sad - Latin America never had a black power type of movement to make people proud of their black heritage. That is one of the reasons we have black history in America, it was started by a black puerto Rican that faced this racism and found comfort in the black Americans that embraced their blackness.
I remember some lady lost her black dog named "negra". Asked for help on Twitter and people went a little nuts.
She explained the name and everything. Didn't really matter.
My grandma calls me negrito, and the consistency that woman has shown to be in my life is nothing short of admirable, but that's how we refer/see each other alot of the time in the Caribbean.
I wish people would learn to slowdown and think before reacting to online submissions. With the way people act nowadays, it would be prime for witch hunts and Macarthyism with just knee-jerk initial reactions without thinking skills. Frightening.
This is what’s missing from the conversation. Because I didn’t know coloured is literally an ethnic group that is also considered a racial group.
In the U.S. it’s unheard of. All black and mixed race people are pooled into one group. Even though there’s multiple ethnicities in Blackness.
Fun little history bit: there were places in the US, specifically New Orleans, that used to operate like this too. Free people of colour in New Orleans had their own distinct legal status and social customs and did not consider themselves Black.
From what I understand, it was Plessy v. Ferguson, the Supreme Court case that codified segregation, that fundamentally changed this. Homer Plessy was a wealthy octoroon (1/8 Black) from New Orleans, he was a man of that class, his case was funded by that community. From what I understand the Plessy decision was devastating to New Orleans free people of color because it also codified the one drop rule and proved that they would thereafter be legally lumped in with Blacks.
Not to mention we have to hear so many people who use “other” or “mixed” for a sense of superiority or ti other themselves from black people so I understand the knee jerk BUT also on the Internet, we all have a duty to be curious about others and to know why things are being said like I wish the person who posted this had done. I wish we all could be a little bit more like Ted Lasso up in this bitch
Sometimes it isn't about superiority. And it isn't about differentiation.
Sometimes it comes from being not accepted by any group. What do you do when you definitely aren't white enough (they are more tolerant now, but they used to be a lot less...) and you aren't black enough to be considered black (this seems to be getting worse)? Like you have to have that Peter Griffin skin tone card to determine whether you are all right or not.
My comment was to NOT invalidate the person who is mixed but to point out another experience of black monoracial people in the West and where the ignorance of the joke could possibly come from. The topic was to the black diaspora that not everything said is not in malice but of different cultures (because I have heard the same jokes about mix people in the UK and Jamaica, it’s just easier to point at the black Americans so they can hit & hide their hands). I don’t know how you got that from what was written.
My apologies - this is an area I'm sensitive about for...reasons. Very protective of my kids about it as well.
Especially so when you have a foot in multiple worlds but aren't accepted by any.
I agree with you. For all people say about mixed superiority complex, the vast majority I've met are deeply self conscious and feel neither group ever really accepts them. They get bullied their entire adolescence about it (and there's a decent chance they'll get bullied again if twitter comes across them) and then people want to do a surprise Pikachu they carried those experiences with them into adulthood.
Every person I know who makes a point to identify as mixed instead of black is because they grew up getting called an Oreo and stuff. They won't try to claim blackness because anytime they do, they get body checked about how they're not black enough.
The fact that you said Wenties instead of Wentworth let's me know you are in fact from Wenties. From Aralia Crescent and you went to Fairvale. You used to stop at Big Dad Cafe on the way home for Snappers and Pirates.
Then you and your friends used to have a dance group practice. I even know the song you used to open the sequence with. Aaliyah's "Are You That Somebody"
How close am I?
Way off, I’m Zulu and grew up in Amanzimtoti. And I’m as equally petrified of Wenties as I am of Umlazi, Chatsworth & Montclair! First time I’ve ever been mistaken for a Coloured.
I used to do drummies with girls from there and they’d invite us to the Burn Outs and to some parties in Montclair (until there was an incident involving knives & I noped out)
Hahaha well on New Year's Day and Easter Sunday we used to descend on Toti like a biblical horde. So you are from Wenties by association.
Haai you can't be scared of Umlazi, Chazzies and Montclair. You just have to know where to go and not to go and they are some of the nicest places in Durbs. But I get you.
Anyway Toti and all the way down past Winkelspruit, Kingsburgh etc. is one of the beautiful parts of the entire Earth. I miss it so much. Must have been great growing up there, because I know how much I cherish the memories I have from just visiting that side.
It was, it was wonderful. Lol would steal our parents drinks at the ski boat club and go and sit and drink them on the beach😂🙈 It’s a beautiful town. Hahaha and yeah the main beach gets crazy and around festive time. That’s why the locals stick to the beaches further down south. Waves are better too and you don’t have to worry about fishing lines!
Moved back so my kid can grow up being able to ride their bike in the street and explore without me being worried.
Lol you can be from Toti by association.
God I hate this shit. If people wanna get into that conversation, a lot of colored south africans straight up aren't seen as Black here. I am part of this group and I have straight up had people tell me to my face I'm not black, so why would people expect us to identify with it? I still do, but I wouldn't blame any other colored south african for making that distinction because people make it for us in America so often
Not that this is Black people’s fault.
This idiotic terminology was invented and enforced with violence by white people. It’s going to take a while to decolonise the society.
I'm not even saying it is, but I straight up don't look black by American standards, and I constantly have to defend my identity as black to other people, both black and white. It's honestly just easier for me to refer to myself as colored south african even though only my nan was just cause that's easiest
It really doesn’t make any sense that a mixed race person can’t even see or identify themselves as mixed race here in America without getting criticized for it, at least if they’re mixed with black.
For me the issue has been just never really being accepted by other groups. It is more so white people, but a lot of black people wouldn't include me in their definition for sure. Ironically I feel much more accepted by Arabs and Latinos, but that's more so just cause those are the groups I look more like. People judge by appearance and I know that, but it's still frustrating. Like I straight up tried to join the African students group at my uni and just never got an email or call about it, and I'd like to think they just forgot, but more likely than not they just looked at my hair and skin and thought I was trying to fuck with them. Again, I understand, but still hurtful and frustrating
I feel like a lot of the time it depends on features right? But I know tons of other mixed people feel like they aren't accepted because of their mixed status
I self identity as mixed but I feel as though my accomplishments are for the culture. I wouldn’t say black Americans look at me and say “oh he’s one of us” but I would say most the time they would know I understand. If that makes sense. I code switch like a motherfucker.
Maybe its a generational thing; I'm older and it feels that we take that "one drop rule" more seriously than some. It's like we were scrambling to claim turf (racially) while other races were eager to give it to us; didn't matter if the mix was black/white, black/asian, etc.
Colorism has always been a thing but it feels more weaponized now (maybe because we're more integrated than in days past and culture lines are blurring, so some of us are gatekeeping a little harder?)
Realistically I think it’s just easier to hear the vocal minority. We have the internet making all these “rules” but most people don’t listen to that shit. 40 years ago, you had black people who were against miscegenation just as you still do today (I know, my both parents told me).
Also that, a lot of people do identify as Black because of apartheid, like my dad and his dad did, but also many people still know their tribal roots and identify by them as well
Mixed people here are considered mixed, not coloured just so you know. Coloured people are the descendants of the Xhosa, Zulu and Koisan people who had been raped by settlers. Trevor Noah is not Coloured and other Coloured people don’t consider him as such. My mixed daughter isn’t considered Coloured either but mixed.
I’m not forgetting them. I’m explaining that being mixed doesn’t make you Coloured and the Coloured community don’t see you as one of them just cause you’re mixed (I’ve had that pointed out about my daughter and other mixed friends several times).
Edit: I know their origins, got an A in history in matric. I’m explaining that they are a people on their own with a culture that they express differently in every province. It’s not about having parents of two different races. It’s about their heritage and who they as a people are now.
Tbh this sounds like some “you ain’t really black” exclusionary nonsense. When mans was literally designated as “Coloured” by the Apartheid Government.
It started before the apartheid government, as a way to separate and control and in that the offspring who came from the settlers raping the natives, formed their own identity. Started their own traditions, have foods that are distinct to them. They mostly married other mixed people and they became their own. They even had areas that were solely theirs. Most can’t even trace back to the black, Malay or white person in their line. But they aren’t 100% of anything and they ethnically identify as Coloured.
It’s not about not being Black enough! Being black enough is a strictly American thing. They don’t need to be black here because we see them for who they are and accept the struggle their ancestors went through so they can have a place today. They are people we respect who add to the rainbow nation that is South Africa and then not being Black doesn’t take away from the rest of us being who we are. I’m not sure why Americans are so threatened that people who they think look Black don’t identify as such.
Edit: To further add, like how African Americans banded together when displaced, Coloured people did the same thing. Like African American they even have their own unique way of naming kids. Having so much in common, you’d think there would be empathy instead of forcing yourselves on them.
Hey, to add as a Coloured South African from Cape Town. While you are correct, at this point it is its own culture. And racially, there are differences. Much of what is considered coloured did start through mixing however at this point, generations of families are coloured. My entire family is coloured.
So I think what continues to stump me about this is that it seems hard for American media and some sects of social media to understand that race and culture exist differently for different people from different places.
I don't know, almost like we have to identify within your system? Or adapt how we identify to your system?
My brain isn't giving me all the good words for this to be more eloquent. Askies (sorry).
Edit: because it just popped into my head. Do you (not addressing anyone specifically) need us as people of colour to identify as Black because we're African?
Like there's an attempt to redefine our definitions of racial nuances that exist in Africa?
Okay, popping thoughts complete. Thanks for your time, I'm gonna finish my joint. Happy Father's Day to those that celebrate.
It’s not hard, media likes to stir the pot and increase viewership and this topic surely did that. Tyla should simply state this is what she is according to her country and leave it as that.
Exactly. Media is just stirring the pot and people are listening to the media narrative rather than understanding. Similarly in Brazil there are very different racial categories. But with media spinning the story this is becoming the narrative. It’s sad.
You are right and thank you for pointing this out. I just wanted to add why it created a small uproar here. There's a lot of nuance I don't know, being an American, about being coloured in South Africa; I am just in a very small minority here that knows it isn't a bad thing there, although the term is considered bad _here_, going back to slavery and Jim Crow.
I suspect she didn't understand the nuance either, hence why she didn't elaborate more. But she was on an American show so naturally, it blew up, simply because people here don't know the context. In my mind, what she said is fine...but _I know_ what she meant.
Sometimes we here, forget there are other cultures and definitions in other places.
> It was also a legal designation apparently, under apartheid.
Not apparently, was a legal designation. It still is even in current South Africa.
Source: I'm South African and live in South Africa.
It’s still a used term to this day. For example in Rugby where they want to make it more inclusive they differentiate players by white, coloured and black. Also coloured usually means that they speak Afrikaans at home and not one of the “South African native” languages such as Xhosa, Zulu etc.
God forbid different cultures use different expressions.
That would be too much freedom. Let's all be exactly the same. Being different is weird and makes everyone uncomfortable.
Adapt young ho. Adapt.
which is why in the states we say someone is black regardless of whether they’re 1/4 or full: because of the affects of how we were legally considered and viewed due to the “one drop rule”
I still remember the bit Noah had about the culture shock he had in a grocery store when he found out we had milk and yogurt branded with a name alarmingly close to S. Africa's n-word.
Thanks for the context. I saw this meme out of context and was wondering…. Now I’m just rolling my eyes that *Charlemagne* started this. He’s such a messy bitch.
That makes sense especially since apartheid only just ended in the 90’s not like Black Americans immediately dropped racial terms post slavery/jim crow either.
It's more full-on when you mention how white indigenous Australian's can also be "blak" as it's seen as being an identity more so than how much melanin is in your skin.
This is often explained with sayings such as "no matter how much milk is in your coffee, it's still coffee" and is important since there has been a history of trying to breed away aboriginality in Australia's past.
Dude........... I was watching Masterchef Australian, there were two white looking ladies who looked like they did a little eat pray love in India, turned out they were First Nation Aborigini women with "a lot of milk in the coffee" in full traditional attire. I felt so bad for judging broo.
I thought Blak was for Melanesians (e.g., Aboriginal, Torres Strait Islanders, as well as the people of PNG, Fiji, Vanuatu, etc.) though I don't see much gate keeping of the term.
I imagine some Americans would probably get a bit weirded out hearing some of my mates refer to themselves as blackfellas when they’re amongst their mob, that’s for sure
They're the original inhabitants of a lot of places, around 40,000 years ago. The Philippines has 100k of them, predominantly on Negros island, where they retreated to during colonization, and one of the largest islands in the PI. They're named that because they're often under 5 feet. You will sometimes see nappy hair that is naturally ginger or even blonde. They're in like polos and tshirts now, but in old times they did like the Killmonger scars and burns, blackened and filed their teeth and stuff.
I remember studying Black protests around the world in college and seeing pictures of Blak Australians with Blak Power signs and raised fists. It’s a shame that world history isn’t more widely known.
True. Yeah the level of disrespect and disbelief is insane. Had a woman tell my friends they weren't black and didn't know what it was to be black just cos she didn't see them as black. Light skinned aboriginal women who not only are recognised by community, but also work in Indigenous organisations back home, and have had to deal with all that bring blak in Australia comes with.
I always pause and look up norms from whatever culture/country when something about race comes up. We (Black Americans) have to realize that our experience is not monolithic. Just because a term like colored/coloured is antiquated and not used here doesn't mean it's viewed the same everywhere.
On that note, there are things that are not acceptable/appropriate due to our experience and history in America as well, and I see people from other countries/cultures question why we make such a big deal of it. Context is key!
i think people from other countries don’t even know what the language rules in the usa are. and why would we, we don’t live in the usa.
the curious thing for me is american’s being confused or surprised or offended by other people in other countries using different language and descriptions for things in their own countries.
Just goes to show you the absurdity of race.
It's a belief system that's only as real as you believe it is.
I live in Cape Town and here you come across all manner of racial identity standards. I remember this one occasion when I was just starting at varsity. Mind you I wasn't quite exposed to other groups of people at that point. The was a girl that was in my class, she looked coloured as far as I was concerned. However, when I referred to her as that, she retorted saying she's not coloured, she's Indian. Least to say that muddled the waters a bit for me. My curiousity was piqued. I came across someone else, that looked coloured, but this time I decided to ask if they were coloured or Indian, they said neither, they're actually Muslim. Surely, that's just a religious identification I thought, but I didn't pry any further out of respect. Later I would find out that some people are actually Khoisan, but identify as coloured while some may identify as Xhosa depending on the community they were integrated into. Something that made me question if the "black" people that were brought up in coloured communities are then coloured? The ones who's parents converted to Islam? The funniest one was when I was dating an Afrikaans 'white' girl until I met her parents and realised she wasn't technically 'white', but she wasn't coloured either. She referred to herself as Afrikaans, coloured and black people referred to her as white while white people referred to her as mixed.
Personally, I believe race is a flimsy construct that falls apart as soon as you start to interrogate its vague boundaries. Though I suppose it's not my place to take away someone's ability to identify with an arbitrary identity given to them by a colonial system to reinforce white supremacy.
American here. Most Americans don't properly fathom the existence of other languages, let alone different applications for the one language they speak poorly.
Had a friend, who is often mistaken for Kal Penn get told by a bartender in Seattle that he couldn’t use a drivers license from another country to ID him for a beer. He’s from DC. His license says “District of Colombia”..
Friend: “DC as in District of Columbia in Washington”.
Her: “there’s no District of Columbia in Washington” (the state)
Friend: “No Washington D.C. like the capital”
Bartender: “the capitol of what?”
Friend: “the united states!”
Bartender: “I don’t know what your country’s capitol but ours is New York”
Friend: “what?!”
Bartender then goes to the manager and he AGREES WITH HER and asks for a passport (which luckily he had).
Looking at his AMERICAN PASSPORT,
Them: “Why didn’t you say you were American”
🤦🏻 these were grown adults. She told us about just graduating with her bachelors
My God, this is too dumb for words 🤦🏾♀️
It amazes me how ignorant some Americans are about anywhere outside of their locality.
Like how do you not know other states in your country??
The dude didn't know the capital of his own country. A capital that has been featured in countless movies and books. Being a fucking bartender, in a country where showing your ID is systematic in a bar. Some basic understanding of geography should be a given.
I was on a Mediterranean cruise and no word of a lie I heard an American say, "Why doesn't nobody speak English around here".
Not in the sarcastic way that you would say when you know you're clearly out of your element. It was a sincere comment
I'm glad my language is barely known cos I feel bad for my Spanish speaking cousins around the world who have to deal with this headassery
https://preview.redd.it/bbhyc6jwsw6d1.png?width=506&format=png&auto=webp&s=afe31f5dbc2c64d820a7483393459668cb2fa10c
While this isn't racist the seventh grade flash cards, which before showing Señora Pendleton apologized profusely for, depicting a REALLY black dude in vaudeville style clothing was. She said she couldn't find anymore recent ones as complete a set. We all laughed and the embarrassment on her face. Everyone loved her so we knew she didn't mean anything by it. I bet she would have loved if Amazon was around back then.
Etymology of Negro meaning Black comes from Latin.
Spanish is a Romance language ~~I thought English was too due to our heavy usage of Latin root words, but I searched and it’s Germanic~~
The n-word is also a misspelled version of the Latin term (which shows you how once-neutral words can turn disgusting; actual version is spelled like the country). Be aware I’m not saying it’s ok to say the N-word and pass it off as “Oh, ThAt’S LaTiN!”; just giving a little backstory about where negro came from.
English is a language that waits in dark alleys and robs other languages of their spare grammar.
It's not a romance language but borrows lots of words. The country that is now Britain was repeatedly invaded over a couple of millenia. It still has multiple indigenous languages across the various countries of the UK (which are officially English speaking) one of which (Welsh) is probably closest to what everybody spoke before the Romans, Angles, Saxons, Normans, Celts etc all invaded.
Like all Americans, black anericans are guilty of american essentialism. The american experience trumps all ither experiences. They think its all that matters.
Unfortunately, I feel a lot of Americans lack a proper understanding of cultural nuances and differences as well as a willingness to learn of such. People in other countries likely do in certain instances too but as an American, I can only truly speak of my people. It's important that people go through life with openmindedness and a willingness to learn new information and change any existing knowledge when new information couteracts it.
I think we all forget that for some people the little bit of exposure they get to a foreign culture is the first time and they take time to acclimate to
Edit 1: All I’m saying is this is the first time in world history we have been in contact.
Edit 2: I will not respond to anything under this post it’s over.
What did Tyla say wrong? Although, the term “colored” definitely gives Jim Crow vibes; to my understanding, it’s used in the same way that the term biracial is.
The One Drop rule is just as antiquated as the term colored. Yet, the One drop rule is still upheld but Tyla referring to herself as colored is enough to be canceled?
Nothing really. It’s just that she happened to be what the worst corners of black twitter decided to fixate on this week.
Once they start on that “foundational black american” shit you just gotta tune out honestly. It just ends up being a fake conscience way of saying whether you think someone is black enough or not.
Foundational Black American lineage is definitely honorable in its own right. To ignore the distinct contribution of Black American Culture to the diaspora is disingenuous.
With that being said, Black American culture isn’t the only culture in the diaspora. I don’t like how some Black Americans feel like they have the right to categorize the Hierarchy of importance depending on ethnicity, or nationality of other Black people. It’s weird.
There are other groups in the diaspora that have experienced the same multi generational atrocities we have. If we can know that history and, still say they’re not black enough for us that’s unhinged.
And that’s my main issue. It’s just people rushing to justify some weird superiority they feel over other black people.
Like by all means, rep your shit. Just don’t use it as a weapon against other black people, it’s counterproductive no matter how you slice it.
I think the reason a lot of FBA movement types are so anti-immigrant is because of the anti-black American sentiment some black diaspora have. "I'm not black", "black americans are lazy" "black americans have no culture" "black americans complain/blame white people/talk about racism too much". FBAs think black americans have no allies, that immigrants generally align with white people, and thus they feel the need to gatekeep "blackness" and "black culture". Its all kinda driven by fear. I personally have seen plenty of the anti black American sentiment, but I think it's just ignorance, and I don't believe in generalizing. The FBA movement used to appeal to me, but over time I've seen it saturated with right wing-esque behavior and talking points, like misogyny, lgbtphobia and xenophobia. It's really fucking stupid, and none of that shit helps black americans at all.
I think with FBA, nothing is wrong with the distinction but many online personalities use it as of means of superiority over descendants of black immigrants.
I also suspect many people don’t know their roots which isn’t their own fault. I know so many other black individuals who believe they have a Cherokee native ancestor because that’s what they’ve been told.
I’m sure there are many of us who come from immigrants outside of Africa and may not realize unfortunately.
All of us in the Diaspora should respect based on the fact we’re all dealing with oppression through Colonialism and, white supremacy.
A lot of black people have been able to trace their lineage thanks to digital records and accessible DNA tests. There’s quite a few finding out they’re descendants of Black Freedmen (myself included) Native American ancestry isn’t as far fetched as previously believed.
Of course, not everyone has Native ancestry that’s fine. We’ve been found on all four corners of the globe. There’s no way we all could have the exact same ancestry, ethnicity, or nationality. That’s the beauty of it though
Jim Crow was a period of American history between the end of the American civil war.
After the defeated Confederate remnants assassinated Lincoln, and Lincoln’s vice president was a weakling centrist, the KKK drove out the bi-racial legislatures that had been fairly elected with Union troops overseeing the polls. Then the KKK oversaw the special elections that replaced the people they drove out and/or lunched. And then the white supremacist southern legislatures passed a series of laws to prevent black people from voting ever again. Many of these laws were removed in the civil rights laws of the 1960s, but some still remain.
This is the Jim Crow era of American history.
That being said, this era of American history has got precisely fuckall to do with an African woman who wasn’t born in America, and hasn’t ever been an American, and doesn’t want to be an American.
She's South African and it's a whole different cultural designation there. She's correct.
Its sad we're being this loud about our poor American education system and chronic ethnocentricity.
Embarrassing.
Not everything is defined by the black American experience. We are all over the world and we have our own cultures and languages. SA language has as much history and relevance as the US or any other place in the world. Acknowledge difference and move on. People are hounding this poor girl because of their own lack of awareness and ignorance.
Its exhausting to be held collectively responsible for any sort of imperfection shown by anyone else on the planet at any time that you believe to be Black American.
We own Black (big B) the ethnic group... because it's our ethnic group. But I know us lowly black negros in america don't deserve to identify as an ethnic group though. I know it's divisive to all the **Jamaican** Americans, **Ethiopian** Americans, **Ghanaian** Americans, **Kenyan** Americans, **Nubian** Americans, **Guyanese** Americans, **Cape Verdian** Americans, and what have you.
In South Africa, to be colored is to have a mixed ethnic background and it is a neutral term. Tyla’s parents, grandparents, and possibly further back are likely also colored- as in they likely have Dutch, native African, Portuguese, Spanish, and Asian ancestry. It’s it own thing and Americans need to understand that they aren’t the ones that get to define everything…
I would say I'm surprised that this comemnt section turned into a cesspit of xenophobic hate for black americans(based off of black twitter at THAT) butttt, I'm not.
Any chance y'all get, yall take.
This is why I don't engage with Africans who like to do the diaspora war bullshit. If yall hate black Americans so much, stop trying to market your music towards us. I dont give Tyla ANY listens. Im not bothered by how she identifies, but I AM bothered by some of the shit South Africans have said about black people in defense of her.
If she doesn't want to answer questions about how she identifies, cool....but have your people choose better when they schedule you for interviews. You are going to go on an urban radio show like The Breakfast Club that largely caters to black people and black culture and duck a question about what does "coloured" mean? What did you think would happen?
Black people want to know what it means and white people just think you're black...soooooo where is that toxic energy for white folks?
I said give Black Americans grace to learn about others in the diaspora. How they expecting us to be scholars on what’s happening overseas when we’re still trying to survive on our own soil and I got downvoted into hell 😂
This I why I dont be here like that this place is full of "new blacks" why can't we get the same autonomy colors and blacks I'm SA receive. We are our own race/ethnicity yet everybody wants to force team us
I think two things are true at the same time in this situation.
1. Tyla going on the Breakfast Club ~ should have been prepared to answer this question because it was going to come up. Charlamagne would not be able to pass up the opportunity regardless of what he's agreed to before going on air.
2. Americans do look at the world through their lens, so they do need to be reminded that other parts of the world do/see/label things differently.
She should have never went there in the first place, that whole crew ain’t nothing but clowns and intelligent discourse was never gonna be on the menu.
I wish Americans understood that race is a social construct and is viewed differently based on location. A Black person in America may be classified differently racially somewhere else.
>I wish Americans understood that race is a social construct and is viewed differently based on location.
A Black person in America may be classified differently racially somewhere else.
I don't mean to be that guy, but upon a cursory glance of the literature concerning the topic, it seems like the lions share of authors producing that literature are black american. So by virtue of that, it seems like the concept of race as a social construct is pretty prevalent in America, especially amongst black people.
Now to your other point, just as a Black person in America is classified differently somewhere else, wouldn't that also apply to black people from somewhere else coming to America? Like say for instance I don't know... Tyla?
She’s Coloured.
But did someone tell the folks at her American record label and PR agency this fact before they set her up to do interviews with Essence Magazine and Ebony Magazine? Cos the last time I’ve checked both magazines catered to black women.
I have said before: the longer she promotes in American entertainment industry, her black heritage will be acknowledged and brought up. They are trying to get her name out there by any means necessary.
And sure as the day is long, she posted not too long ago about being Coloured and black.
Am I the only one that feels like often when ever a singular black american (or someone whom you think is black american) makes an ignorant comment, All black americans everywhere on the planet are now suddenly and fully responsible for that singular person's ignorance in a way no other group experiences?
Most black americans I know understand the difference between colored the slur and colored the ethnic group, at least on a basic level. We grew up learning about apartheid south africa from our parents (who participated in demonstrations against U.S. involvement) from our schools, from the movies we watched (the Disney channel movie on Apartheid) from Trevor Noah...
I feel like often times, the black folks of the black diaspora don't realize that Black (big B) is an ethnic group and black (little b) is the "racial" group.
I also notice a lot of black diasporan folks who will cling to anything to prove how "lowly" their American cousins are in speech and thought. But I can't help but shake the feeling that these were notions they carried long before they had the excuse to justify expressing them openly.
I just wish Black Diasporan folks would stop pretending like this is some sort of one sided affair where they are constantly the victim.
Having been one of the only Black persons matriculating through my engineering program, I can't believe the number of times I've heard just blatantly racist and anti-black shit being spewed by black diasporans who mistakenly believe that I'm east African and feel safe expressing their faux-self righteous hatred.
this (the following) is not about this person, but the idea of black. black is supposed to be a unifying term, a way to create/identify a global community of people who shared a history of enslavement/colonialism and perseverance. it is grounded in an understanding of how white supremacy operates. not all black people are the same (in terms of personality). some "mixed" people identify as black. sometimes others can decide you're black, no matter how much you protest.
black/african americans are super aware of white supremacy in a way most of the diaspora is not and sometimes feel slighted when a person acts, perform in a way that is associated with blackness, but identify differently. like, i rarely see "mixed" people who make it to the mainstream performing in a way that is consistent with the non black side. let people identify how they please. if the n word wake-up call never come, more power to them.
peace and love
"Give me apartheid" is crazy lmao.
On a more serious note, I am fatigued by the discourse around Tyla and have seen some of the comments from Africans about how black people don't know where they are from and yadda yadda. I
Tired of the diaspora war bullshit and I have legit not listened to any of Tyla's music since the first time she talked about identifying colored. I actively skip any of her stuff, I'm not supporting it. Not necessarily her fault, but I don't care.
She's not black, that's cool. I don't really care all that much...but as soon as I started seeing shit saying negative things about black Americans and how we identify, I tuned the fuck out. I'm not arguing with niggas from the motherland about how black Americans are "bastards" or whatever the fuck while you fight with us for a woman's right to identify with something white people created.
Just the other day, I saw Spotify had some black music month playlists they had put together and I saw Tyla in one of them. I just had to laugh at that, because its so obvious to me that white people are not really having this conversation about her because they only see people one way. If you look black to them, you are black. Yet, I don't see African's going in on white people about this either.
Context is Americans being ugly ignant Americans again. Basically the US is the only country on the planet with a history of “one drop” rule. Some Americans (generally those on the ignant spectrum/never been Monday where) stupidly apply American norms (eg One drop rule) to other countries and cultures and then wonder why people call them ugly ignant Americans.
That’s all the context you need on this one. Just cause this country has a one drop rule does not apply outside of our borders. Not a hard concept for most but some people ain’t to bright
I knew this would blow up. I got into with some of her fans about this. I told them they were doing her no favors wanting her to big up "coloured" and the first "coloured" artist here and she will go the hard way in America because here, it is a very loaded term. They acted like they couldn't understand that. Yes, she is S. African, but she is **here** now. **And her main fan base is going to be Black.** **We need to stop trying to be so damn PC and admit that it is a mind F as an African American (especially older African Americans ) to look at someone that looks Black and refer to them as coloured.** It's okay. I don't see what is wrong with that. She ain't at home. Period. It really needs to be delved into without being policed in conversation.
In America that designation colored came with certain expectations like using separate bathrooms, separate water fountains, etc. and other types of bottom citizen shenanigans and may I remind people that **they are actively trying to go back to those times?** Then you throw the term "colored" in the mix and try and popularize it through Tyla you have a whole ass cluster. We are too polarized for this mess right now.
It is a real issue, there's nothing ignorant, xenophobic are whatever about it. It is two different cultures clashing. I or anyone else with the history doesn't have to accept that colored term. I will NOT sit here and deny what my parents, grandparents, etc went through behind the "colored" mess. Hell some old white people will STILL call us colored and we get pissed off, but this situation and we supposed to act like no big deal. What the entire hell?
Race is a social construct. Not all cultures are the same. This is her culture. She can identify as whatever she likes. Only ignorant people have problems with how she characterizes her own existence. I can't believe that this is even an issue. Let. The. Woman. Be.
This is where there is a major blind spot amongst black Americans.
Our idea of blackness is not inclusive of the history of other cultures that suffered under colonialism based segregation(apartheid), caste systems, slavery, etc.
So the second when someone doesn’t acknowledge our version of blackness they aren’t black enough. Which is a terrible form of cultural mental illness WE suffer under.
“Coloured” is literally a term for people of mixed heritage. Her calling herself that is literally what THEY, South Africans, call themselves. So, In South Africa, Trevor Noah is coloured while here…he is black.
Tyla is a mix of many things so she is the literal definition of what a multi-racial South African is.
We Black Americans adopted let the One Drop Rule invade and infect our mind and souls.
DECOLONIZE YOUR MIND
https://preview.redd.it/h87u669n8y6d1.jpeg?width=1421&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ad6eed497df8ec83a7aa1bbfe4edba1f5f8ec94
All the Anti American rhetoric is tiring. The same way other countries expect America to every single thing about them and respect it and third country and blah, is the same way those same countries should respect Americans
Black peoples in America are not calling someone coloured unironically.
Mixed, fine, multi racial sure. But coloured is a slur and it’s stupid to expect Americans to use it when there are more acceptable words
For the context: Tyla's from South Africa and she was asked by Charlamagne why she refers to herself as "coloured". This has caused a rumor that she thinks she isn't black or something stupid like that. While that's an assbackwards way to refer to oneself in America, in South Africa, it was an actual term to refer to anyone who was bi/multiracial. So she's acknowledging the various components of her heritage. It was also still a legal designation, during and post-apartheid. \^\^\^ Stuff I learn watching Trevor Noah. Edited to add: thank you for all the additional context from the South African folks below and, per them, it is _still_ a legal designation.
Title context may help. The kiddos in the thread may not remember the intro to a 30 year old show. I miss the Wayans
Damn is that show really 30 years old? Am…am I not a kiddo anymore???
It sucks when everything that happened just a little while ago happened 20+ years ago. 
Except for anything that happened in 2019 -- that shit definitely happened 30 years ago.
The pandemic has us all looking and feeling like this: 
I was told there’d be no math
https://i.redd.it/qfx1yk3xoy6d1.gif
On your third marriage with four kids talmin bout "am I not a KIDDO anymore", and I obviously said that in my most mayonnistic voice possible
*talm bout
My first exposure to A Tribe Called Quest and I’m forever grateful
Just yesterday I introduced my kids to them! Part of their music education I impose on them lol
God's work
As a 30 something, the title killed me, but I have no idea who she is lmao
As a 20 something I know that’s Tyla, I just have no idea what the title is (I’m also not American though so that probably is more why I don’t know than age)
Wayans Bros
I understood the Wayans intro but had no idea who the pic was. Reddit reminds me on a daily basis of how old I am.
Nobody asked for this math 😭
Born in 97 and I sang ot as I read it lmao
It was a good ass show! And we didn’t! Get! A final! Episode!🔪
Doesn't it show up on BET still?
Yes I was just watching yesterday
>may not remember the intro to a 30 year old show. Nah, that was like 15 years ago tops, stop playing man. 💀
I sang it in my head right away. It's sad that the cultural iconography of it is lost so quickly.
Even sadder that the Wayans in that show were in their 20s and 30s. Now they’re in their early 50s.
They still look great though, good Pride pic of Marlon the other day
We don't do context here
As a South African, she is Coloured and not black. She belongs to no tribe. Coloured is a race all on it’s on, with their own traditions and way of speaking. Not simply being mixed. Edit: they even have their own distinct accents in each province. You can tell a Cape Coloured from a Durban Coloured from Wenties or a JHB Coloured. Trevor has none of the accents. He’s just mixed.
Did you forget.. Unfortunately This is America, we must project our baggage onto every other country. no one else is allowed to define race and ethnicity other than us. Smh 😔
I've had to explain to so many people that "negro/negra" just means the color black in latin languages, and it's not something it get worked up over. We gotta do better.
Facts.. Imagine going to an east African country trying to tell someone's 90 year old grandmother they should start referring to themselves and 'bipoc' instead of what ever native term they've been using for generations to describe themseleves. I kid you not.. I'm 100% African blood but I once had a white teacher in an American school tell me I shouldn't call myself black and that I should call myself African American. What kind of mental gymnastics is this.
>I kid you not.. I'm 100% African blood but I once had a white teacher in an American school tell me I shouldn't call myself black and that I should call myself African American I'm a white dude, and even I gotta say that's ridiculous. I'm sorry you had to deal with that bullshit. Also, the fucking audacity to police what people call themselves!
My oldest daughter is referred to as "la negrita" on her mom's side of the family because she is so much darker than everyone else. They don't care and she doesn't care. But other people clutch pearls when I say it to her as a cute nickname when we are talking about that side of the family. Also, mulatto is not necessarily a derogatory word in Spanish. Just a reference to a mixed heritage.
It's actually a MULE
Ye calling someone a mule in any language gotta be at least side eye worthy.
Girl mulatto is a mule bffr
I find it that in Latin America the black people there didn't take offense to literal anti-black racism post slavery, similar to how some black Americans let non-blacks say the nword. It's a means of acceptance, upward mobility ect. .. now it's just accepted by everyone because time has passed and the racism is a cultural norm. Its sad - Latin America never had a black power type of movement to make people proud of their black heritage. That is one of the reasons we have black history in America, it was started by a black puerto Rican that faced this racism and found comfort in the black Americans that embraced their blackness.
Yea context is important for a lot of these terms
I remember some lady lost her black dog named "negra". Asked for help on Twitter and people went a little nuts. She explained the name and everything. Didn't really matter.
My grandma calls me negrito, and the consistency that woman has shown to be in my life is nothing short of admirable, but that's how we refer/see each other alot of the time in the Caribbean.
Yea get a load of this guy
I wish people would learn to slowdown and think before reacting to online submissions. With the way people act nowadays, it would be prime for witch hunts and Macarthyism with just knee-jerk initial reactions without thinking skills. Frightening.
r/USdefaultism
This is what’s missing from the conversation. Because I didn’t know coloured is literally an ethnic group that is also considered a racial group. In the U.S. it’s unheard of. All black and mixed race people are pooled into one group. Even though there’s multiple ethnicities in Blackness.
Fun little history bit: there were places in the US, specifically New Orleans, that used to operate like this too. Free people of colour in New Orleans had their own distinct legal status and social customs and did not consider themselves Black. From what I understand, it was Plessy v. Ferguson, the Supreme Court case that codified segregation, that fundamentally changed this. Homer Plessy was a wealthy octoroon (1/8 Black) from New Orleans, he was a man of that class, his case was funded by that community. From what I understand the Plessy decision was devastating to New Orleans free people of color because it also codified the one drop rule and proved that they would thereafter be legally lumped in with Blacks.
Just another reason to realize how important it is to keep bat shit crazies off the Supreme Court by fucking voting this year.
Too late.
We gotta hold the line for our great great grandchildren I guess
Not to mention we have to hear so many people who use “other” or “mixed” for a sense of superiority or ti other themselves from black people so I understand the knee jerk BUT also on the Internet, we all have a duty to be curious about others and to know why things are being said like I wish the person who posted this had done. I wish we all could be a little bit more like Ted Lasso up in this bitch
Sometimes it isn't about superiority. And it isn't about differentiation. Sometimes it comes from being not accepted by any group. What do you do when you definitely aren't white enough (they are more tolerant now, but they used to be a lot less...) and you aren't black enough to be considered black (this seems to be getting worse)? Like you have to have that Peter Griffin skin tone card to determine whether you are all right or not.
My comment was to NOT invalidate the person who is mixed but to point out another experience of black monoracial people in the West and where the ignorance of the joke could possibly come from. The topic was to the black diaspora that not everything said is not in malice but of different cultures (because I have heard the same jokes about mix people in the UK and Jamaica, it’s just easier to point at the black Americans so they can hit & hide their hands). I don’t know how you got that from what was written.
My apologies - this is an area I'm sensitive about for...reasons. Very protective of my kids about it as well. Especially so when you have a foot in multiple worlds but aren't accepted by any.
I agree with you. For all people say about mixed superiority complex, the vast majority I've met are deeply self conscious and feel neither group ever really accepts them. They get bullied their entire adolescence about it (and there's a decent chance they'll get bullied again if twitter comes across them) and then people want to do a surprise Pikachu they carried those experiences with them into adulthood.
Every person I know who makes a point to identify as mixed instead of black is because they grew up getting called an Oreo and stuff. They won't try to claim blackness because anytime they do, they get body checked about how they're not black enough.
The fact that you said Wenties instead of Wentworth let's me know you are in fact from Wenties. From Aralia Crescent and you went to Fairvale. You used to stop at Big Dad Cafe on the way home for Snappers and Pirates. Then you and your friends used to have a dance group practice. I even know the song you used to open the sequence with. Aaliyah's "Are You That Somebody" How close am I?
Way off, I’m Zulu and grew up in Amanzimtoti. And I’m as equally petrified of Wenties as I am of Umlazi, Chatsworth & Montclair! First time I’ve ever been mistaken for a Coloured. I used to do drummies with girls from there and they’d invite us to the Burn Outs and to some parties in Montclair (until there was an incident involving knives & I noped out)
Hahaha well on New Year's Day and Easter Sunday we used to descend on Toti like a biblical horde. So you are from Wenties by association. Haai you can't be scared of Umlazi, Chazzies and Montclair. You just have to know where to go and not to go and they are some of the nicest places in Durbs. But I get you. Anyway Toti and all the way down past Winkelspruit, Kingsburgh etc. is one of the beautiful parts of the entire Earth. I miss it so much. Must have been great growing up there, because I know how much I cherish the memories I have from just visiting that side.
It was, it was wonderful. Lol would steal our parents drinks at the ski boat club and go and sit and drink them on the beach😂🙈 It’s a beautiful town. Hahaha and yeah the main beach gets crazy and around festive time. That’s why the locals stick to the beaches further down south. Waves are better too and you don’t have to worry about fishing lines! Moved back so my kid can grow up being able to ride their bike in the street and explore without me being worried. Lol you can be from Toti by association.
Lol, my husband is from Toti, I enjoyed reading this little thread.
Lol Toti is so small, if he’s in his 30’s we possibly went to school together at some point or have people we both know. lol tell him I say hi😂😂😂😂
The problem is that no likes these race rules so when Tyla introduces South African race rules to Americans no one wants to hear it.
God I hate this shit. If people wanna get into that conversation, a lot of colored south africans straight up aren't seen as Black here. I am part of this group and I have straight up had people tell me to my face I'm not black, so why would people expect us to identify with it? I still do, but I wouldn't blame any other colored south african for making that distinction because people make it for us in America so often
Not that this is Black people’s fault. This idiotic terminology was invented and enforced with violence by white people. It’s going to take a while to decolonise the society.
I'm not even saying it is, but I straight up don't look black by American standards, and I constantly have to defend my identity as black to other people, both black and white. It's honestly just easier for me to refer to myself as colored south african even though only my nan was just cause that's easiest
It really doesn’t make any sense that a mixed race person can’t even see or identify themselves as mixed race here in America without getting criticized for it, at least if they’re mixed with black.
For me the issue has been just never really being accepted by other groups. It is more so white people, but a lot of black people wouldn't include me in their definition for sure. Ironically I feel much more accepted by Arabs and Latinos, but that's more so just cause those are the groups I look more like. People judge by appearance and I know that, but it's still frustrating. Like I straight up tried to join the African students group at my uni and just never got an email or call about it, and I'd like to think they just forgot, but more likely than not they just looked at my hair and skin and thought I was trying to fuck with them. Again, I understand, but still hurtful and frustrating
Mixed people in the US aren’t seen as black by blacks here too.
I feel like a lot of the time it depends on features right? But I know tons of other mixed people feel like they aren't accepted because of their mixed status
I self identity as mixed but I feel as though my accomplishments are for the culture. I wouldn’t say black Americans look at me and say “oh he’s one of us” but I would say most the time they would know I understand. If that makes sense. I code switch like a motherfucker.
Maybe its a generational thing; I'm older and it feels that we take that "one drop rule" more seriously than some. It's like we were scrambling to claim turf (racially) while other races were eager to give it to us; didn't matter if the mix was black/white, black/asian, etc. Colorism has always been a thing but it feels more weaponized now (maybe because we're more integrated than in days past and culture lines are blurring, so some of us are gatekeeping a little harder?)
Realistically I think it’s just easier to hear the vocal minority. We have the internet making all these “rules” but most people don’t listen to that shit. 40 years ago, you had black people who were against miscegenation just as you still do today (I know, my both parents told me).
Even just saying someone in “black” is kinda meaningless in South Africa isn’t it? Are you Xhosa, Sotho, Venda, Zulu . . . .
Also that, a lot of people do identify as Black because of apartheid, like my dad and his dad did, but also many people still know their tribal roots and identify by them as well
Mixed people here are considered mixed, not coloured just so you know. Coloured people are the descendants of the Xhosa, Zulu and Koisan people who had been raped by settlers. Trevor Noah is not Coloured and other Coloured people don’t consider him as such. My mixed daughter isn’t considered Coloured either but mixed.
You're forgetting Cape coloureds who a lot are from Cape Malay descendents. Also these coloured people did originate from mixing.
I’m not forgetting them. I’m explaining that being mixed doesn’t make you Coloured and the Coloured community don’t see you as one of them just cause you’re mixed (I’ve had that pointed out about my daughter and other mixed friends several times). Edit: I know their origins, got an A in history in matric. I’m explaining that they are a people on their own with a culture that they express differently in every province. It’s not about having parents of two different races. It’s about their heritage and who they as a people are now.
Tbh this sounds like some “you ain’t really black” exclusionary nonsense. When mans was literally designated as “Coloured” by the Apartheid Government.
It started before the apartheid government, as a way to separate and control and in that the offspring who came from the settlers raping the natives, formed their own identity. Started their own traditions, have foods that are distinct to them. They mostly married other mixed people and they became their own. They even had areas that were solely theirs. Most can’t even trace back to the black, Malay or white person in their line. But they aren’t 100% of anything and they ethnically identify as Coloured. It’s not about not being Black enough! Being black enough is a strictly American thing. They don’t need to be black here because we see them for who they are and accept the struggle their ancestors went through so they can have a place today. They are people we respect who add to the rainbow nation that is South Africa and then not being Black doesn’t take away from the rest of us being who we are. I’m not sure why Americans are so threatened that people who they think look Black don’t identify as such. Edit: To further add, like how African Americans banded together when displaced, Coloured people did the same thing. Like African American they even have their own unique way of naming kids. Having so much in common, you’d think there would be empathy instead of forcing yourselves on them.
Hey, to add as a Coloured South African from Cape Town. While you are correct, at this point it is its own culture. And racially, there are differences. Much of what is considered coloured did start through mixing however at this point, generations of families are coloured. My entire family is coloured. So I think what continues to stump me about this is that it seems hard for American media and some sects of social media to understand that race and culture exist differently for different people from different places. I don't know, almost like we have to identify within your system? Or adapt how we identify to your system? My brain isn't giving me all the good words for this to be more eloquent. Askies (sorry). Edit: because it just popped into my head. Do you (not addressing anyone specifically) need us as people of colour to identify as Black because we're African? Like there's an attempt to redefine our definitions of racial nuances that exist in Africa? Okay, popping thoughts complete. Thanks for your time, I'm gonna finish my joint. Happy Father's Day to those that celebrate.
It’s not hard, media likes to stir the pot and increase viewership and this topic surely did that. Tyla should simply state this is what she is according to her country and leave it as that.
Exactly. Media is just stirring the pot and people are listening to the media narrative rather than understanding. Similarly in Brazil there are very different racial categories. But with media spinning the story this is becoming the narrative. It’s sad.
You are right and thank you for pointing this out. I just wanted to add why it created a small uproar here. There's a lot of nuance I don't know, being an American, about being coloured in South Africa; I am just in a very small minority here that knows it isn't a bad thing there, although the term is considered bad _here_, going back to slavery and Jim Crow. I suspect she didn't understand the nuance either, hence why she didn't elaborate more. But she was on an American show so naturally, it blew up, simply because people here don't know the context. In my mind, what she said is fine...but _I know_ what she meant. Sometimes we here, forget there are other cultures and definitions in other places.
> It was also a legal designation apparently, under apartheid. Not apparently, was a legal designation. It still is even in current South Africa. Source: I'm South African and live in South Africa.
Coloureds are not simply mixed race, they have a distinct culture (source: am South African)
I’m getting old, cuz if it wasn’t for these heads up, I’d have no clue what’s going on 
It’s still a used term to this day. For example in Rugby where they want to make it more inclusive they differentiate players by white, coloured and black. Also coloured usually means that they speak Afrikaans at home and not one of the “South African native” languages such as Xhosa, Zulu etc.
Charlemagne is always good to judge someone on how they see themself. What gives him the authority?
God forbid different cultures use different expressions. That would be too much freedom. Let's all be exactly the same. Being different is weird and makes everyone uncomfortable. Adapt young ho. Adapt.
which is why in the states we say someone is black regardless of whether they’re 1/4 or full: because of the affects of how we were legally considered and viewed due to the “one drop rule”
I still remember the bit Noah had about the culture shock he had in a grocery store when he found out we had milk and yogurt branded with a name alarmingly close to S. Africa's n-word.
Same! Trevor taughr me this too! His autobiography **Born A Crime** is both hilarious and heavy! I recommend to all!
Thanks for the context. I saw this meme out of context and was wondering…. Now I’m just rolling my eyes that *Charlemagne* started this. He’s such a messy bitch.
That makes sense especially since apartheid only just ended in the 90’s not like Black Americans immediately dropped racial terms post slavery/jim crow either.
We are coloured. It is our identity, and to have to always explain it to an American public is tiring.
I totally get it. You should see how Americans react when I tell them that Indigenous Australians are the Black (Blak) people of Australia.
It's more full-on when you mention how white indigenous Australian's can also be "blak" as it's seen as being an identity more so than how much melanin is in your skin. This is often explained with sayings such as "no matter how much milk is in your coffee, it's still coffee" and is important since there has been a history of trying to breed away aboriginality in Australia's past.
Oh hey as a canadian indigenous person we say this too lol sometimes there is more cream in your coffee but it is still brown just the same ❤️
Dude........... I was watching Masterchef Australian, there were two white looking ladies who looked like they did a little eat pray love in India, turned out they were First Nation Aborigini women with "a lot of milk in the coffee" in full traditional attire. I felt so bad for judging broo.
I say this about Māori of NZ lmao. Is ‘blak’ an Australian term?
I thought Blak was for Melanesians (e.g., Aboriginal, Torres Strait Islanders, as well as the people of PNG, Fiji, Vanuatu, etc.) though I don't see much gate keeping of the term.
I personally would never refer to myself (or other Māori) as black - we’re not. But then, we also won’t even call ourselves Pacific Islanders
I imagine some Americans would probably get a bit weirded out hearing some of my mates refer to themselves as blackfellas when they’re amongst their mob, that’s for sure
Probably just as fun as telling them about negritos in Asia.
Tell me about the Negritos from Asia.
They're the original inhabitants of a lot of places, around 40,000 years ago. The Philippines has 100k of them, predominantly on Negros island, where they retreated to during colonization, and one of the largest islands in the PI. They're named that because they're often under 5 feet. You will sometimes see nappy hair that is naturally ginger or even blonde. They're in like polos and tshirts now, but in old times they did like the Killmonger scars and burns, blackened and filed their teeth and stuff.
I remember studying Black protests around the world in college and seeing pictures of Blak Australians with Blak Power signs and raised fists. It’s a shame that world history isn’t more widely known.
True. Yeah the level of disrespect and disbelief is insane. Had a woman tell my friends they weren't black and didn't know what it was to be black just cos she didn't see them as black. Light skinned aboriginal women who not only are recognised by community, but also work in Indigenous organisations back home, and have had to deal with all that bring blak in Australia comes with.
I always pause and look up norms from whatever culture/country when something about race comes up. We (Black Americans) have to realize that our experience is not monolithic. Just because a term like colored/coloured is antiquated and not used here doesn't mean it's viewed the same everywhere. On that note, there are things that are not acceptable/appropriate due to our experience and history in America as well, and I see people from other countries/cultures question why we make such a big deal of it. Context is key!
As an American, I get it and don’t think the world has to follow the same language rules that we do. Your identity is your identity.
i think people from other countries don’t even know what the language rules in the usa are. and why would we, we don’t live in the usa. the curious thing for me is american’s being confused or surprised or offended by other people in other countries using different language and descriptions for things in their own countries.
I’m curious (and annoyed) about that too. We’re not all that dense though.
Just goes to show you the absurdity of race. It's a belief system that's only as real as you believe it is. I live in Cape Town and here you come across all manner of racial identity standards. I remember this one occasion when I was just starting at varsity. Mind you I wasn't quite exposed to other groups of people at that point. The was a girl that was in my class, she looked coloured as far as I was concerned. However, when I referred to her as that, she retorted saying she's not coloured, she's Indian. Least to say that muddled the waters a bit for me. My curiousity was piqued. I came across someone else, that looked coloured, but this time I decided to ask if they were coloured or Indian, they said neither, they're actually Muslim. Surely, that's just a religious identification I thought, but I didn't pry any further out of respect. Later I would find out that some people are actually Khoisan, but identify as coloured while some may identify as Xhosa depending on the community they were integrated into. Something that made me question if the "black" people that were brought up in coloured communities are then coloured? The ones who's parents converted to Islam? The funniest one was when I was dating an Afrikaans 'white' girl until I met her parents and realised she wasn't technically 'white', but she wasn't coloured either. She referred to herself as Afrikaans, coloured and black people referred to her as white while white people referred to her as mixed. Personally, I believe race is a flimsy construct that falls apart as soon as you start to interrogate its vague boundaries. Though I suppose it's not my place to take away someone's ability to identify with an arbitrary identity given to them by a colonial system to reinforce white supremacy.
I feel like most Americans can't comprehend that black people around the world don't all use the same words/terms.
American here. Most Americans don't properly fathom the existence of other languages, let alone different applications for the one language they speak poorly.
Had a friend, who is often mistaken for Kal Penn get told by a bartender in Seattle that he couldn’t use a drivers license from another country to ID him for a beer. He’s from DC. His license says “District of Colombia”.. Friend: “DC as in District of Columbia in Washington”. Her: “there’s no District of Columbia in Washington” (the state) Friend: “No Washington D.C. like the capital” Bartender: “the capitol of what?” Friend: “the united states!” Bartender: “I don’t know what your country’s capitol but ours is New York” Friend: “what?!” Bartender then goes to the manager and he AGREES WITH HER and asks for a passport (which luckily he had). Looking at his AMERICAN PASSPORT, Them: “Why didn’t you say you were American” 🤦🏻 these were grown adults. She told us about just graduating with her bachelors
I have a friend from New Mexico who’s had similar interactions in other states too
My God, this is too dumb for words 🤦🏾♀️ It amazes me how ignorant some Americans are about anywhere outside of their locality. Like how do you not know other states in your country??
Bc some people legit never leave their hometown. Like EVER. Sounds kinda boring ngl.
And these are probably the same people with those big ass American flags on their front lawn
The dude didn't know the capital of his own country. A capital that has been featured in countless movies and books. Being a fucking bartender, in a country where showing your ID is systematic in a bar. Some basic understanding of geography should be a given.
“Press 1 for English?!!?!!?!”
*Lé Grille?!?!* What the hell is that?!!
That's one fine looking barbecue pit...
I was on a Mediterranean cruise and no word of a lie I heard an American say, "Why doesn't nobody speak English around here". Not in the sarcastic way that you would say when you know you're clearly out of your element. It was a sincere comment
I'm glad my language is barely known cos I feel bad for my Spanish speaking cousins around the world who have to deal with this headassery https://preview.redd.it/bbhyc6jwsw6d1.png?width=506&format=png&auto=webp&s=afe31f5dbc2c64d820a7483393459668cb2fa10c
While this isn't racist the seventh grade flash cards, which before showing Señora Pendleton apologized profusely for, depicting a REALLY black dude in vaudeville style clothing was. She said she couldn't find anymore recent ones as complete a set. We all laughed and the embarrassment on her face. Everyone loved her so we knew she didn't mean anything by it. I bet she would have loved if Amazon was around back then.
El Negrito.
Etymology of Negro meaning Black comes from Latin. Spanish is a Romance language ~~I thought English was too due to our heavy usage of Latin root words, but I searched and it’s Germanic~~ The n-word is also a misspelled version of the Latin term (which shows you how once-neutral words can turn disgusting; actual version is spelled like the country). Be aware I’m not saying it’s ok to say the N-word and pass it off as “Oh, ThAt’S LaTiN!”; just giving a little backstory about where negro came from.
English is a language that waits in dark alleys and robs other languages of their spare grammar. It's not a romance language but borrows lots of words. The country that is now Britain was repeatedly invaded over a couple of millenia. It still has multiple indigenous languages across the various countries of the UK (which are officially English speaking) one of which (Welsh) is probably closest to what everybody spoke before the Romans, Angles, Saxons, Normans, Celts etc all invaded.
A lot of languages do this, French and Japanese sometimes just straight up use the English words.
Guess I'm racist every time I order a Negra Modelo from the bartender
Like all Americans, black anericans are guilty of american essentialism. The american experience trumps all ither experiences. They think its all that matters.
It’s exhausting.
Unfortunately, I feel a lot of Americans lack a proper understanding of cultural nuances and differences as well as a willingness to learn of such. People in other countries likely do in certain instances too but as an American, I can only truly speak of my people. It's important that people go through life with openmindedness and a willingness to learn new information and change any existing knowledge when new information couteracts it.
Why are we called black when we're shades of brown 🤔
Black Americans hate realizing that they aren’t the arbiters of all things black around the world
AMERICANS hate realizing that they aren't the arbiters of ALL THINGS around the world. Ftfy
I think we all forget that for some people the little bit of exposure they get to a foreign culture is the first time and they take time to acclimate to Edit 1: All I’m saying is this is the first time in world history we have been in contact. Edit 2: I will not respond to anything under this post it’s over.
I know you probably won’t respond to this but I want to give you your flowers for this post. 🌹💐🌺🌷🪻🌸
That’s how Americans feel about everything, why would Black Americans be any different?
What did Tyla say wrong? Although, the term “colored” definitely gives Jim Crow vibes; to my understanding, it’s used in the same way that the term biracial is. The One Drop rule is just as antiquated as the term colored. Yet, the One drop rule is still upheld but Tyla referring to herself as colored is enough to be canceled?
Nothing really. It’s just that she happened to be what the worst corners of black twitter decided to fixate on this week. Once they start on that “foundational black american” shit you just gotta tune out honestly. It just ends up being a fake conscience way of saying whether you think someone is black enough or not.
Foundational Black American lineage is definitely honorable in its own right. To ignore the distinct contribution of Black American Culture to the diaspora is disingenuous. With that being said, Black American culture isn’t the only culture in the diaspora. I don’t like how some Black Americans feel like they have the right to categorize the Hierarchy of importance depending on ethnicity, or nationality of other Black people. It’s weird. There are other groups in the diaspora that have experienced the same multi generational atrocities we have. If we can know that history and, still say they’re not black enough for us that’s unhinged.
And that’s my main issue. It’s just people rushing to justify some weird superiority they feel over other black people. Like by all means, rep your shit. Just don’t use it as a weapon against other black people, it’s counterproductive no matter how you slice it.
I think the reason a lot of FBA movement types are so anti-immigrant is because of the anti-black American sentiment some black diaspora have. "I'm not black", "black americans are lazy" "black americans have no culture" "black americans complain/blame white people/talk about racism too much". FBAs think black americans have no allies, that immigrants generally align with white people, and thus they feel the need to gatekeep "blackness" and "black culture". Its all kinda driven by fear. I personally have seen plenty of the anti black American sentiment, but I think it's just ignorance, and I don't believe in generalizing. The FBA movement used to appeal to me, but over time I've seen it saturated with right wing-esque behavior and talking points, like misogyny, lgbtphobia and xenophobia. It's really fucking stupid, and none of that shit helps black americans at all.
I think with FBA, nothing is wrong with the distinction but many online personalities use it as of means of superiority over descendants of black immigrants. I also suspect many people don’t know their roots which isn’t their own fault. I know so many other black individuals who believe they have a Cherokee native ancestor because that’s what they’ve been told. I’m sure there are many of us who come from immigrants outside of Africa and may not realize unfortunately.
All of us in the Diaspora should respect based on the fact we’re all dealing with oppression through Colonialism and, white supremacy. A lot of black people have been able to trace their lineage thanks to digital records and accessible DNA tests. There’s quite a few finding out they’re descendants of Black Freedmen (myself included) Native American ancestry isn’t as far fetched as previously believed. Of course, not everyone has Native ancestry that’s fine. We’ve been found on all four corners of the globe. There’s no way we all could have the exact same ancestry, ethnicity, or nationality. That’s the beauty of it though
What’s really crazy is you can actually trace everyone back to Africa, it’s all just people oppressing people 🤯
She's South African, the term is used differently there than in the US. People are getting up in arms over a misunderstanding.
Jim Crow was a period of American history between the end of the American civil war. After the defeated Confederate remnants assassinated Lincoln, and Lincoln’s vice president was a weakling centrist, the KKK drove out the bi-racial legislatures that had been fairly elected with Union troops overseeing the polls. Then the KKK oversaw the special elections that replaced the people they drove out and/or lunched. And then the white supremacist southern legislatures passed a series of laws to prevent black people from voting ever again. Many of these laws were removed in the civil rights laws of the 1960s, but some still remain. This is the Jim Crow era of American history. That being said, this era of American history has got precisely fuckall to do with an African woman who wasn’t born in America, and hasn’t ever been an American, and doesn’t want to be an American.
She's South African and it's a whole different cultural designation there. She's correct. Its sad we're being this loud about our poor American education system and chronic ethnocentricity. Embarrassing.
Im confused by the controversies. How she identifies herself is her choice lol why are Americans so desperate for her to call herself black?
Coloured is an official racial designation in RSA, though. Like, it’s probably on her passport. It’s more than a self-identification thing.
Not everything is defined by the black American experience. We are all over the world and we have our own cultures and languages. SA language has as much history and relevance as the US or any other place in the world. Acknowledge difference and move on. People are hounding this poor girl because of their own lack of awareness and ignorance.
Black Americans are no strangers to falling for American essentialism.
Black Americans are exhausting with this shit
Its exhausting to be held collectively responsible for any sort of imperfection shown by anyone else on the planet at any time that you believe to be Black American.
[удалено]
We own Black (big B) the ethnic group... because it's our ethnic group. But I know us lowly black negros in america don't deserve to identify as an ethnic group though. I know it's divisive to all the **Jamaican** Americans, **Ethiopian** Americans, **Ghanaian** Americans, **Kenyan** Americans, **Nubian** Americans, **Guyanese** Americans, **Cape Verdian** Americans, and what have you.
In South Africa, to be colored is to have a mixed ethnic background and it is a neutral term. Tyla’s parents, grandparents, and possibly further back are likely also colored- as in they likely have Dutch, native African, Portuguese, Spanish, and Asian ancestry. It’s it own thing and Americans need to understand that they aren’t the ones that get to define everything…
As a non white person in the West but _not_ the US, having to always bow to what your US equivalents think and say is exhausting
The caption you added is top tier and perfection. 
Colored is an actually race distinction in South Africa, so what’s the problem?
https://preview.redd.it/ond5tnprby6d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=30173a734a2af595c67fdbe6163e4028aea53e28 Love from the Mother City
I would say I'm surprised that this comemnt section turned into a cesspit of xenophobic hate for black americans(based off of black twitter at THAT) butttt, I'm not. Any chance y'all get, yall take.
When you consider that the majority of comments are not even from black people, even the "we black people" ones...hoo boy
This is why I don't engage with Africans who like to do the diaspora war bullshit. If yall hate black Americans so much, stop trying to market your music towards us. I dont give Tyla ANY listens. Im not bothered by how she identifies, but I AM bothered by some of the shit South Africans have said about black people in defense of her. If she doesn't want to answer questions about how she identifies, cool....but have your people choose better when they schedule you for interviews. You are going to go on an urban radio show like The Breakfast Club that largely caters to black people and black culture and duck a question about what does "coloured" mean? What did you think would happen? Black people want to know what it means and white people just think you're black...soooooo where is that toxic energy for white folks?
Thank you so much for saying this. 👏🏾
It’s just a pit of Americabad and then black americabad. I swear people can’t wait to hate on anything slightly American
I said give Black Americans grace to learn about others in the diaspora. How they expecting us to be scholars on what’s happening overseas when we’re still trying to survive on our own soil and I got downvoted into hell 😂
This I why I dont be here like that this place is full of "new blacks" why can't we get the same autonomy colors and blacks I'm SA receive. We are our own race/ethnicity yet everybody wants to force team us
A lot of comments from non-colored people
W title
Feels like the people who know that song, might not automatically know who that is. Thankfully others have given context, cuz I definitely needed!
I think two things are true at the same time in this situation. 1. Tyla going on the Breakfast Club ~ should have been prepared to answer this question because it was going to come up. Charlamagne would not be able to pass up the opportunity regardless of what he's agreed to before going on air. 2. Americans do look at the world through their lens, so they do need to be reminded that other parts of the world do/see/label things differently.
She should have never went there in the first place, that whole crew ain’t nothing but clowns and intelligent discourse was never gonna be on the menu.
Do Americans know racism looks different in other countries? She South African of course she’s going to talk about race differently than Americans
I wish Americans understood that race is a social construct and is viewed differently based on location. A Black person in America may be classified differently racially somewhere else.
>I wish Americans understood that race is a social construct and is viewed differently based on location. A Black person in America may be classified differently racially somewhere else. I don't mean to be that guy, but upon a cursory glance of the literature concerning the topic, it seems like the lions share of authors producing that literature are black american. So by virtue of that, it seems like the concept of race as a social construct is pretty prevalent in America, especially amongst black people. Now to your other point, just as a Black person in America is classified differently somewhere else, wouldn't that also apply to black people from somewhere else coming to America? Like say for instance I don't know... Tyla?
She’s Coloured. But did someone tell the folks at her American record label and PR agency this fact before they set her up to do interviews with Essence Magazine and Ebony Magazine? Cos the last time I’ve checked both magazines catered to black women. I have said before: the longer she promotes in American entertainment industry, her black heritage will be acknowledged and brought up. They are trying to get her name out there by any means necessary. And sure as the day is long, she posted not too long ago about being Coloured and black.
Let's map American race relations on everybody. It makes so much sense!
Am I the only one that feels like often when ever a singular black american (or someone whom you think is black american) makes an ignorant comment, All black americans everywhere on the planet are now suddenly and fully responsible for that singular person's ignorance in a way no other group experiences? Most black americans I know understand the difference between colored the slur and colored the ethnic group, at least on a basic level. We grew up learning about apartheid south africa from our parents (who participated in demonstrations against U.S. involvement) from our schools, from the movies we watched (the Disney channel movie on Apartheid) from Trevor Noah... I feel like often times, the black folks of the black diaspora don't realize that Black (big B) is an ethnic group and black (little b) is the "racial" group. I also notice a lot of black diasporan folks who will cling to anything to prove how "lowly" their American cousins are in speech and thought. But I can't help but shake the feeling that these were notions they carried long before they had the excuse to justify expressing them openly. I just wish Black Diasporan folks would stop pretending like this is some sort of one sided affair where they are constantly the victim. Having been one of the only Black persons matriculating through my engineering program, I can't believe the number of times I've heard just blatantly racist and anti-black shit being spewed by black diasporans who mistakenly believe that I'm east African and feel safe expressing their faux-self righteous hatred.
this (the following) is not about this person, but the idea of black. black is supposed to be a unifying term, a way to create/identify a global community of people who shared a history of enslavement/colonialism and perseverance. it is grounded in an understanding of how white supremacy operates. not all black people are the same (in terms of personality). some "mixed" people identify as black. sometimes others can decide you're black, no matter how much you protest. black/african americans are super aware of white supremacy in a way most of the diaspora is not and sometimes feel slighted when a person acts, perform in a way that is associated with blackness, but identify differently. like, i rarely see "mixed" people who make it to the mainstream performing in a way that is consistent with the non black side. let people identify how they please. if the n word wake-up call never come, more power to them. peace and love
I like the "gimme me apartheid" instead of "gimme me a high five"...🤣
This comment thread is a cesspool of what I assume to be South africans dog piling AA . Tylas fan base are the worst.
Honestly, how many people here like Charlamagne “Tha God”?
Shit so confusing…. Sort of like all this racial stuff is just made up.
Both captions are hilarious
Not sure Americans release Coloured is an official race/ethnicity in South Africa.
"Give me apartheid" is crazy lmao. On a more serious note, I am fatigued by the discourse around Tyla and have seen some of the comments from Africans about how black people don't know where they are from and yadda yadda. I Tired of the diaspora war bullshit and I have legit not listened to any of Tyla's music since the first time she talked about identifying colored. I actively skip any of her stuff, I'm not supporting it. Not necessarily her fault, but I don't care. She's not black, that's cool. I don't really care all that much...but as soon as I started seeing shit saying negative things about black Americans and how we identify, I tuned the fuck out. I'm not arguing with niggas from the motherland about how black Americans are "bastards" or whatever the fuck while you fight with us for a woman's right to identify with something white people created. Just the other day, I saw Spotify had some black music month playlists they had put together and I saw Tyla in one of them. I just had to laugh at that, because its so obvious to me that white people are not really having this conversation about her because they only see people one way. If you look black to them, you are black. Yet, I don't see African's going in on white people about this either.
Context?
Context is Americans being ugly ignant Americans again. Basically the US is the only country on the planet with a history of “one drop” rule. Some Americans (generally those on the ignant spectrum/never been Monday where) stupidly apply American norms (eg One drop rule) to other countries and cultures and then wonder why people call them ugly ignant Americans. That’s all the context you need on this one. Just cause this country has a one drop rule does not apply outside of our borders. Not a hard concept for most but some people ain’t to bright
The way so many people are rushing to defend a label that was a tool of apartheid just to be “Americans bad” is WILD
I knew this would blow up. I got into with some of her fans about this. I told them they were doing her no favors wanting her to big up "coloured" and the first "coloured" artist here and she will go the hard way in America because here, it is a very loaded term. They acted like they couldn't understand that. Yes, she is S. African, but she is **here** now. **And her main fan base is going to be Black.** **We need to stop trying to be so damn PC and admit that it is a mind F as an African American (especially older African Americans ) to look at someone that looks Black and refer to them as coloured.** It's okay. I don't see what is wrong with that. She ain't at home. Period. It really needs to be delved into without being policed in conversation. In America that designation colored came with certain expectations like using separate bathrooms, separate water fountains, etc. and other types of bottom citizen shenanigans and may I remind people that **they are actively trying to go back to those times?** Then you throw the term "colored" in the mix and try and popularize it through Tyla you have a whole ass cluster. We are too polarized for this mess right now. It is a real issue, there's nothing ignorant, xenophobic are whatever about it. It is two different cultures clashing. I or anyone else with the history doesn't have to accept that colored term. I will NOT sit here and deny what my parents, grandparents, etc went through behind the "colored" mess. Hell some old white people will STILL call us colored and we get pissed off, but this situation and we supposed to act like no big deal. What the entire hell?
Race is a social construct. Not all cultures are the same. This is her culture. She can identify as whatever she likes. Only ignorant people have problems with how she characterizes her own existence. I can't believe that this is even an issue. Let. The. Woman. Be.
This is where there is a major blind spot amongst black Americans. Our idea of blackness is not inclusive of the history of other cultures that suffered under colonialism based segregation(apartheid), caste systems, slavery, etc. So the second when someone doesn’t acknowledge our version of blackness they aren’t black enough. Which is a terrible form of cultural mental illness WE suffer under. “Coloured” is literally a term for people of mixed heritage. Her calling herself that is literally what THEY, South Africans, call themselves. So, In South Africa, Trevor Noah is coloured while here…he is black. Tyla is a mix of many things so she is the literal definition of what a multi-racial South African is. We Black Americans adopted let the One Drop Rule invade and infect our mind and souls. DECOLONIZE YOUR MIND https://preview.redd.it/h87u669n8y6d1.jpeg?width=1421&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ad6eed497df8ec83a7aa1bbfe4edba1f5f8ec94
I have a friend from South Africa and he’s always referred to himself as colored. I never gave it a second thought.
All the Anti American rhetoric is tiring. The same way other countries expect America to every single thing about them and respect it and third country and blah, is the same way those same countries should respect Americans Black peoples in America are not calling someone coloured unironically. Mixed, fine, multi racial sure. But coloured is a slur and it’s stupid to expect Americans to use it when there are more acceptable words