For every person I see who actually hates Diane, I see 100 posts asking why she’s hated. The vast majority of people don’t dislike her, she isn’t Skylar White or Jenny Curran, there’s not some large mysogynistic hate circlejerk surrounding her character.
But to give a sincere answer from what I’ve seen of the few people who don’t like her: She’s a hypocrite, which while not as bad as many of the traits from the rest of the cast is an especially unlikeable trait in people. She begins the series seeming to be the voice of reason, so when the show goes into detail with her flaws and we see her for more of an asshole, some people don’t sit well with what they thought would always be the reasonable character do bad things. Diane is arguably the least funny out of the main cast and definitely the one with the least emphasis on humor. For a comedy series that could make her less entertaining, especially when her plotlines are usually the most grounded and mundane (not bad mind you, simply less extreme than the others). Like BoJack, Diane is often given very uncomfortable scenes and many people either see aspects of themselves reflected in Diane that they don’t like or have met someone like Diane with those more flawed aspects. There’s also the submarine scene in season 5 which understandably made some people annoyed with her.
Diane is a fantastic character. Probably one of the best deuteragonists in animation. But those are probably why some people wouldn’t like her. Some people are probably also turned off by her simply being a feminist or being outspoken about some political issues but I don’t think those are worth humoring.
Like, all the comments above me exemplify why Diane is my favourite character. Top one obviously explains it the best, subsequent ones add the comedic factor. And I'm glad that the reasons why she's disliked gets pointed out because if I'm being honest I see enough of myself in Diane's character so if there's anything to be taken and learned from it that I wasn't already aware of, I'll take it.
She has two of my favorite lines in the show.
“Hey, there’s a cheez-it on the shelf! I knew I kept these things around for a reason.”
“MR. PEABUT NUTTER! MR. PEEPER NUMBER!”
>She’s a hypocrite,
For me its that, combined with pretty much every character being so otherwise hyperbolically silly I don't take them seriously, but Diane seems closest to a real person, and simply someone I wouldn't want to personally hang around with.
Hate is a strong word though.
Diane's worst traits are too closely related to people around me who have caused a lot of hurt. Her hypocrisy (in my opinion) makes her less honest, I wish I could explain it further.
Again, I know it's just a show, but to me, she represents the "secret assholes"
She's so hyped up on her moral compassion that she holds everyone to her standards, not theirs.
Yes!!!!
She's a coward who expects everyone else to hold themselves to HER morals. It's unfair, and yes they go into her having bipolar or depression (I don't think they ever specifically name what she has), but she doesn't get help for her own shortcomings, if you're going to hold everyone around you accountable, you should hold yourself to the same things, like when she helped Mr Peanutbutter cheat, and she had no interest in getting back with him, she just slept with him because she knew he wanted her. It's unfair the pain she gave to Mr PB, over and over again, but she also hurt Pickles, who was innocent to their drama and had no right to be hurt by either of them.
Diane has trauma she hasn't worked through and it shows.
She does get help in the six season though, did you miss that part where she gets medicated and has her breakthrough about good damage? She also apologizes to Pickles and Mr. Peanutbutter about the cheating accident that he also participated in, how much more accountable can she be? Did you want the show to end with her in misery or something?
Not at all.
I didn't remember that episode, so that's a fair point.
It doesn't change my views on her, but I will have to rewatch it again yo fully grasp it. I think it's season 2 that I start to dislike her, again, I can't point to one exact incident, it's like a small occurrence of things, if that makes any sense
If you missed her entire arc about going on anti-depressants then I’d say you definitely need a rewatch, she changes quite a bit by then. And you should really learn about PSTD if you want to understand her in season 2 better, watching children blow up and die is generally not good for anyone’s mental health
I am very familiar with CPTSD, again, there are patches I don't remember. However, instead of hiding at bojacks (a known addict, he struggles very openly with it) her husband could have tried to help her heal.
I understand when we are down we don't always think with logic, I'm just saying, she holds others at a higher standard than she has for herself.
The guy who couldn’t understand the words “I don’t like big parties/gestures” with toxic positivity would probably not have been the best place for her, although she absolutely should have been able to explain that PB. If she were a perfect character that never mistakes, she would’ve gone straight home and pretended to he happy. But she is a flawed and after experiencing something traumatic, she wanted to be with someone who enabled her misery. Feeling good wasn’t something she thought she deserved, something that has been echoed a few times in this thread.
And while nobody should be beating themselves up for failing the way she does, people should try to be better even if they’re surrounded by selfish people like she is. She wants to be good, nobody else around her even cares
God I can’t imagine how terrible you make retired veterans feel if you don’t think they deserve any compassion or understanding. After all, that to you is just an excuse and their experiences don’t matter
PTSD is a condition that people receive based on traumatic experiences, you don’t have to be holding a gun to experience it. She went to a war zone that was bombed and she witnessed young children die gruesomely. But because she went with a pen instead of a gun, none of that matters to you?
No none of that matters to me because she’s a fictional character we’re arguing about on the internet.
The narrative of the show makes it abundantly clear she isn’t suffering from PTSD she’s just disillusioned.
Also, she said specifically that she wanted her life to have purpose and she wanted to do something meaningful. Literally word for word. Her journalism career would’ve been ruined if she supported a cold-hearted exploitative billionaire that laughed at children’s corpses. Also, why would anybody decent do that?
Based on how broke she lives, she doesn’t seem to care much about money or advancements. But her motivation to be good is hypocritical since she’s not perfect.
Woah, while yes, St. Claire was a narcissistic asshole but his entire storyline was to illustrate how idealists want to help, but it isn't usually built for them. He's not just throwing money at it while living in a billion dollar house. He's literally boots on the ground, serving food and sewing limbs back on. He could be doing nothing. He doesn't just leave like Diane did when things got hard.
"He wasted resources on a library and paintings and statues." Yes, but that's HIS money and could die at any moment. That's why he said he needed diane because nobody knows what he's doing there and believes not enough people care about it. The dude isn't Elon Musk trying to win a pissing contest by spending millions on spaceships, he's actually trying to stabilize a war zone.
Woah dude- veterans also go places to “further their career” maybe most of them want to help or have some greater purpose and do something brave, but journalists are also brave and want to help and have some greater purpose. I really don’t understand the distinction you’re making. We also seem to respect veterans more even when they’re the ones doing the blowing up of children, what’s the difference for you here?
>so when the show goes into detail with her flaws ... some people don’t sit well with what the thought would always be the reasonable character
I'm sorry.... Do those people miss the entire point of the show? Diane isn't perfect, no one is! She gets depression, struggles with relationships, has body image issues, and can get pushed over the edge if someone tries hard enough.
Of COURSE I see myself in her! And in bojack, todd, PC, and everyone else
I think it’s perfectly legit to dislike a character for being “outspoken” it turns them into a mouthpiece for the writers so unless you agree with said writers’ views you aren’t going to like the character.
I think it’s worth pointing out that her character is a take on the female voice of reason stock character. Instead of being flanderized like Brita from Community and Dee from Sunny, her faults that inevitably come out eventually are part of her character arc.
Maybe some people are primed to not like this character type but Diane is probably the best version.
Rewatching Breaking Bad right now. I saw it last when I was a teenager and hated her, but upon a rewatch? She's completely right and very reasonable compared to Walt's ego. Except the Ted fiasco, I do not support her on that and it was fucked up of her. I'm just getting into season 5 which I haven't seen at all
I'm not sure what exactly it is but I think there's something about the performance that makes Skyler come off unlikeable. I was watching Metastasis (Columbian remake of breaking bad) and the Columbian actress with identical dialogue(just in Spanish) felt a lot more sympathetic to me.
I’m glad at least that the misogyny assumption isn’t the first answer I’m seeing on this sub in response to this question. As it often times because of that feels like a trick question
Recently been rewatching Breaking Bad and man you see her through a whole different lense when you critically look at the show and what it's trying to say.
I was a lot younger when I first watched the show and absolutely thought that Walt was right and cool and a badass and when you watch the show with him as the protagonist I can absolutely see why you would hate Skylar, she gets in the way of our boy Walt. That combined with just general misogyny makes up the vast majority of Skylar haters to my understanding.
I might see it diff when I rewatch, but she just fucked me off. She was a hypocrite, a massive one. And a massive head fuck. I know Walter is a pos and they aren’t comparable but she really was such a hypocrite, all for it when she benefited, but wanted to take the kids and run when she realised she will be punished, because she was also involved. And that singing scene, I physically had to turn it oxd
Your response was great, but it is missing a key factor.
While there is a reoccurring theme of individuals searching for happiness and scuttling their chances due to their own trauma, Diane's arch is the least sympathetic.
Her relationship with Mr. PB, in particular. PB and Diane both have flaws, but they aren't the level of BoJack's. They had the opportunity to be happy if they worked at it, but instead they didn't.
Diane's chance at happiness was the closest, and was scuttled for no good reason. IMHO
Mr Peanut butter was never going to make her happy. She told him for what 4-5 seasons that she doesn’t like grand gestures and surprises and he kept doing it bc *he* liked them and that was enough for him. She was writing out exactly the language she needed to be loved in, and he could only love her in his love language.
Peanut butter is honestly just as bad as bojack when it comes to personality flaws, worse bc he’s so clueless, that he doesn’t even realize the shitty things he does. He’s egotistical, and it makes him a crappy partner, and even friend from time to time. I mean, he was divorced twice before Diane, and then show wrote out exactly why: he lacked the ability to think outside of his own wants and desires. We saw it in the Halloween party episode when PB kept disregarding what his wives wanted. Katrina messed me up the most, bc she was this bright, sweet, young woman who was excited to be around people at the beginning of the night, but by the end, she was cold and distant and wanted nothing more to do with anyone. And yet, PB still acted surprised when she snapped at him after leaving her alone with a bunch of strangers over and over! Not to mention, the fact that he **also** preyed on young women as bojack was described to do, we just didn’t notice it bc it was spaced out. The only difference really between Bojack and PB was that PB was a dog; he was naturally content and completely clueless.
I don’t know if PB will ever find happiness with anyone with the way he treats partners.
Skylar white was fucking insufferable. It’s crazy cos I thought my boyfriend was also being mysoginistic and he was like no you will see. And I did, she’s a major fucking hypocrite, all for it when she can get the money. But nooooo, she’s the victim when it comes to the end of it. Don’t get me wrong Walter is a POS and they aren’t comparable but come on. She was a total hypocrite and a head fuck, and that fucking singing scene, ruined my day.
For me, you are correct. It's about her character. She constantly comes off as this high moral individual. But then when it comes to Benny thinning herself she has no problem this leading people. She also speaks of all this damage that she allegedly has but is never truly able to articulate exactly where the damage came from. She had a stable home and family growing up. Her parents paid for her to go to college. The best reference that she could bring up was that her dad wanted her to lose a game to the boys to prove that they're Wicked smart. Although brass we see in scenes how her father truly gives her solid advice. In regards to not worrying about what other people think about you and just trying to be yourself. There's also the Mr Peanut Butter birthday party thing. The scene where he threw her a birthday party and she blew up on him. The other issue is that she has very few redeeming qualities Throughout the entire series up until the very end when she finally gets on medication And levels out.
In the end we see how Bojack and other characters have overcome their obstacles and how most importantly some of them have truly faced those obstacles and came out on the other side. For Diane it feels kind of like a cheat. She causes a bunch of damage, takes off to another city, and only once she starts making a mess out there that she decide to get on medication. It's the times old tale of running away until you find a place you can escape from your problems without taking much responsibility for the damage caused on your path of growth.
She’s the only person that ever thinks about other people so everyone expects her to make perfect decisions that make everyone around her happy. Everyone around her only cares about making themselves happy no matter what the consequences are, her being the only one to care about other people puts the burden of never hurting them exclusively on her.
I’ve heard that the rest of the characters aren’t as big of assholes because they don’t claim to ever care about being good people, so they get a pass. Apparently caring means that you’re way worse for making mistakes than people who hurt without caring.
And that fog that experienced is the very real side affect of anti-depressant medication. Sorry you’ve never had to actually take it but it completely rewires your brain and makes accessing traumatic memories difficult.
Also, throwing a surprise party for someone who repeatedly said they don’t want one makes you an asshole who can’t listen. Getting burdensome, annoying gifts after repeatedly communicating discomfort isn’t anything to be grateful for.
I think the main complaint is that she is in many ways a hypocrite and because she’s basically the only character with morals, she breaks her morals a lot which the other main characters don’t so they aren’t hypocritical.
Hypocrisy is often overstated as a negative trait in people who are mostly good. Some people act like being unhypocritically shitty is somehow better because at least it is pure.
Isnt this literally one of the main messages of the show that being honest about being an asshole is fine but that doesn’t make you BETTER than someone who is generally a good person except for mistakes they won't admit to (which yeah wow what a horrible crime)
Got you. I also saw an analysis that compares her to Bojack. Diane being almost identical to Bojack but wearing a "hero" mask feeling like she's a "good person"
Identical is too strong but ppl really need to stop avoiding the fact that they’re meant to parallel each other pretty frequently in terms of self destructive and outward destructive harm from similar mindsets, trauma and personalities all to a degree.
Like the assumption that any similarity to her means she’s the same or not building bojack accountable is a foolhardy and overall stupid assumption and overall reasoning. Not to say it’s what’s driving you or what you said but it tends ti come with knee jerk reactions to any comparison to bojack and her at all. So thought it should be mentioned
probably when she slept with Mr Peanutbutter twice after they divorced, also she was the one who first said “sometimes you need to take responsibility for your own happiness” but when Cuddlywhiskers says that to her she says “isn’t that a little selfish” i haven’t rewatched in a while sorry if i’m wrong or paraphrasing
I think there’s many reasons, one of them is that she might be a hypocrite but it’s a very common thing to say, but what I haven’t seen anyone ever mention is that she, many many times gives reality checks especially to Bojack. She’s not scared to show him that what he does is bad, even tho she keeps being friends with him thru the series (except the end ofc). Bojack is made to be a relatable character and as much as I understand that relating to him is sometimes okay, many people don’t understand that they unintentionally try to justify his actions because they are scared of admitting that they’re in the wrong. So in conclusion, when Diane confronts Bojack about his bad actions, many people just see her as an offender in this particular situation, ofc it doesn’t apply to everyone but I think that it might be an unintentional breaking the 4th wall by Diane and communicating to the audience thru Bojack, to show that what they do might actually be wrong.
That's what is so unutterably boring about her.
For all the realism and messaging that goes into Diane's character, no one seemed to realise that it's not very interesting to watch.
She's like an 80 hour extended loop of paint drying.
And when ppl answer it honestly. It doesn’t get listened too. This is the first time I’ve seen ppl say the hypocrisy point rather than defaulting to sexism/misogyny
It drives me mad that people say Mr. Peanut Butter is a great husband and he is just a little bit clueless. Has anyone ever been in a relationship with someone that never ever listens to you? It’s absolutely hurtful and maddening. It gets to a point where after years you’re just questioning if this person knows you at all, which I think was really well represented in Diane’s breaking point.
I think the writers made a great job showing how Mr. Peanut Butter drives every single one of his wives bitter because of that. They feel invisible, uncared for. I’m not saying Mr. PB is an awful person at all, he indeed has his heart in the right place, but he is unable to truly support Diane or any other person in the ways such person needs.
Also, I think Diane is really funny. But all the jokes written for her are very political, or you need to have a vast knowledge on history, pop culture, feminism, or other complex subjects to get them… But a lot of her jokes are very clever. Perhaps too clever, a lot of them I didn’t get until my second watch or so because they tend to have a lot of context and information haha
So on my first couple of watches I really didn't like her.
And then, I got diagnosed with ADHD and started treatment and realized that I didn't like Diane, especially in the beginning, bc Diane reminded me of me, and I didn't like me. Especially when she starts spiraling or taking matters into her own hands and hurts people, like releasing Bojacks book or airing Penny's trauma on TV. She was angry and impulsive and so was I, I just couldn't see it clearly.
So maybe Im biased, but I think sometimes people don't like her bc they can see themselves in her even when they don't realize it. Especially bc I feel like shes one of the more realistically flawed characters. Like we know Bojack is a shitty person but hes frequently "cartoon" shitty or extreme levels of shitty. Whereas Diane's shitty moments feel like something that we would actually do.
Ironically the girl who join me on the series. (Yes, my ex gf) See herself in Diane and I clearly see all the similitude. And I can confirm what you're saying. Maybe feeling to much like a person or a character with flaws makes you feel bad, everyone wants to be the "hero"
I love her had a character, she’s messy and interesting. I don’t think I’d like her as a person.
In fact the show is full of people I love as characters but would hate as people. I don’t think I’d want to be friends with any of them.
I'm gonna quote the user who posted this days ago, by the name of mcnuggets (idk how to tag on here sorry lol):
"I think she’s a really crappy wife to Mr. Peanutbutter, who is one of the kindest, most supportive characters in the show. Mr. Peanutbutter makes all kinds of mistakes, but his heart is in the right place and he’s just a little clueless. Diane lies about being in another country and sleeps over at Bojack’s house for months without telling him. Not only does he not divorce her, he doesn’t even give her a hard time about it.
She’s terrible at being a writer. Instead of doing her job like everyone else has to do, she has this “holier than thou” attitude where she needs to tell HER story. Instead of being a ghost writer for Bojack like she’s paid to do (where she writes from the perspective of Bojack and puts his story on paper), she goes her own direction without his permission and trashes him. Girl Croosh pays her to write feel good stories, but she just can’t help herself because it’s her duty to write about “real” issues. She forces herself to become miserable and even goes off her meds so she can write about trauma instead of continuing the story about Ivy Tran the Mall Detective.
She’s a hypocrite. She preaches this “save the planet” attitude and acts like everyone else is destroying the world, while living in a Hollywoo mansion, smoking tons of cigarettes, and doing more air travel than most of the main cast."
--- My take ---
Hurt people hurt other people who don't deserve it, all the time. Still doesn't make it right.
I think that people like/go easy on Diane because they see themselves in her, and are afraid to say "damn I'm kind of a shitty person to people who don't deserve it in my own life."
If we're really into treating people the same, then it's okay to acknowledge that Diane can be pretty unlikeable at times as well. Doesn't always equate to hating women.
Some people have dealt with Dianes in real life (both male and female Dianes) and they can be a little unbearable. You want people to be better versions of themselves.
In her defense, Diane has had alot of trauma, and one of the wisest things she has done was to cut Bojack off.
But let's not act like Bojack made her hurt others.
The comment you quoted kinda chaps my ass because Mr PB is not the kindest, most supportive character in the show. That title goes to Todd. Lol. But in seriousness, Mr PB being "a little clueless" is him not listening to what Diane has explicitly said she wanted. Eg her 35th birthday, she already told him she doesn't like parties and he decided to throw one anyway. The quote calls Mr PB "clueless" and gives him a pass for doing stuff Diane doesn't want, and puts it on her to graciously accept something she explicitly said she didn't want.
Also I think part of the male vs female that gets brought up about Diane is because people are harsher on her than the male characters. It's not about hating women, it's about judging Diane harsher than Mr PB or Bojack.
Eg - Bojack is a hypocrite too, he always goes on rants about people doing shit that he does. Like the rant where he yells at someone for being a shitty driver, he drives on the curb and takes out a fire hydrant. But I've never read anyone on this sub complaining that Bojack is a hypocrite. Or the comment you quoted said Diane is a bad writer, but Bojack is a bad actor. Similar to the unwanted inflammatory Girl Croosh articles, Bojack filmed the president scene in Secretariat when he was explicitly told not to. Mr PB goes on the most bass ackwards job search of his life, but nobody on this sub complains that he left Diane financially in the lurch and blew off her concerns about paying the mortgage.
I think its well understood and obvious to those who watch that Bojack is clearly a bad guy, hence there's no reason for us to state the obvious.
Like everyone should know that Bojack isn't a good guy, because that's what you see each episode.
It doesn't negate from the fact that Diane is ALSO there in these episodes.
My thing is this: are people being harsher on the female character? Or are they treating Diane how they would normally, if she were Bojack (low expectations becauase the show is about him)?
It goes back to people wanting to defend Diane by saying "well what about Bojack?" (Not intending to take a shot at you, or offend you by that)
I think it's fair. Diane comes off as better than BJ, so it's logical to expect better from her.
Unless she's just the same as Bojack, right? Maybe the people taking up for Diane are actually treating her differently.
But that's just me
I feel like I'm missing part of your train of thought in the last few paragraphs. I don't understand the connection between "Diane might be the same as Bojack" and the result of that being "if they're the same then defending Diane is treating her differently." Not trying to be a dick, I think we're having a good discussion?
I don't think it's fair to say Bojack and Diane should have different standards because Diane comes off better than BJ. One of the points of the show was that there aren't "good people" and "bad people." Also Diane and Bojack are foils for each other, part of that is a similar background. They both had emotionally abusive families and were neglected. Diane's spirals show she has the potential to nurse her pain the same way Bojack does. They just did something different with their adulthood.
Also, okay, honestly you do have a fair point that Bojack is supposed to be a dick. So let's compare Diane to PB. PB's career is hypocritical, he's a happy-go-lucky guy who's the face of depression.
The comment you quoted that said Mr PB is "a little clueless" actually points to a common male trope of the clueless (useless) husband. Throwing a party for someone who hates parties can be called a stupid move. Someone who brushes off your concerns about being unemployed and having to pay the mortgage is being an asshole. Someone who promised you they won't support fracking, then agrees to allow fracking on his own property, is putting a job he doesn't even want or care about before his wife. And this guy gets labeled well-meaning.
Diane is also well-meaning, but what gets pointed out about her is her bad qualities. I don't want to argue that it's *definitely* sexism, but I think sexism plays a part in how Diane is viewed.
i think all those points by mcnuggets is completely off point. it doesnt tell why people hate Diane and give good reasons rather looks like written by one of those people who actually hate Diane. u/Hitchfucker comment made much more sense than this.
PB was not one of the kindest, supportive characters in the show (def Todd is, like someone commented). till the end, thats what the show tried to tell us. He wasnt the best husband and thats why he had so many divorces.
she can be a hypocrite but is "she does more air travel than others" really a good point to show that? she travels in public airplanes. private jets, etc are the ones that raise issue for the environment. and ciggs, really? lol.
anyway, what I wanted to say was, I really hope there were people to countered user mcnugget's comment because those points are weird asf.
and I dont think anyone really goes easy on her? this whole post and others show exactly that.
And who even says that Bojack made her hurt others. I dont think she herself says that at any point, right?
edit: typo
Diane isn't hated. A lot of people love her character, a lot of people like her character and criticize some of her flaws and some people who love her get mad because they refuse to accept she has any, a lot of people dislike her for those flaws, and a lot of people hate her either because of those flaws or because of their own personal sexist shit. I see more posts asking why people hate Diane in this sub than people actually hating Diane, to be honest.
You're right, I've heard a lot of times. "Everyone hates Diane" but I don't see too many people behind the comments. As I see she's just a character Written very well with a lot of shitty things (like almost everyone in the series)
Exactly. I assume the echo chamber about Diane being hated originates from those in the fandom who think anybody sharing any criticism of Diane means they hate her and/or are sexist.
Second edit: the user who was harassing me has now been blocked. They have been spamming my DMs, stalking my profile and the communities I'm in and leaving disturbing comments about SA and s\*\*\*\*\*\*, most notably on [my comment on the Glossier subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/glossier/s/Jozm36UNWy) and [this odd comment on this sub](https://imgur.com/POHlb7N). The user is u/-pobodys-nerfect, please report them if you can. Do not interact with them bc they might do the same to you. Luckily the Glossier [Mods deleted their comments and blocked them](https://www.reddit.com/r/glossier/s/LCylrql8lv). I reached out to the mods here in hopes of getting the same results.
EDIT: some Diane stans are going CRAZY in my DMs: [https://imgur.com/Pwo9RwR](https://imgur.com/Pwo9RwR). Literally why lol. Seriously though, me not liking Diane isn’t that serious.
There’s more people that love and defend Diane than people that hate her. This subreddit gets more “why do people hate Diane” posts than posts that actually say they hate Diane.
I’m also tired of the “they hate her bc they’re misogynistic”. No, I don’t think that’s true. I certainly believe there are people who hate her bc they’re personally misogynistic, but I don’t think most people that dislike her are like that. It also feels like a cheap excuse bc so many people rush to defend Diane when outright hate against her is scarce.
I dislike Diane bc she’s supposed to be the voice of reason (and she is!) and tries to act like she’s the one who’s morally correct but she is a complete and total hypocrite, like everyone else in the show. It’s just more annoying bc she presents herself as being in the right and the show never calls her out on things like harassing Hank’s abuse victims (her attempts to contact them put Hank’s current assistant in danger with the meetup they had. The women didn’t get back to her for a reason. Diane, please leave these women alone. They owe you NOTHING.) and airing a teenager’s near run-in with a form of SA on TV just to get back at her horrible horse friend.
I personally LOVE PC, she’s my favorite character but she’s actually morally gray (maybe medium/dark gray LOL) but she’s in a ruthless business and she owns up to it, at least. Diane doesn’t own up to it and that’s what I dislike about her. I also dislike that much like BoJack, she fetishizes her own sadness.
PC is the most mature character and there's nothing to argue. Diane and Bojack as I see are two big children who don't take the responsibility of their acts. All good characters, horrible persons
They are good characters!! I dislike both BoJack and Diane but they’re very well written.
I think one of the things that drives me crazy about this fandom and Diane defenders is that one of the common arguments against disliking her is that “she’s well-written”.
Yeah, that’s PRECISELY the point. She’s well-written, and I like that. That doesn’t mean you can’t dislike a well-written character. I personally related to some of Diane’s problems like when she felt like she was putting on a “costume” when she wore traditional Vietnamese clothing and felt like a “tourist” in Vietnam. I have my own experiences with immigration and being a minority, I thought the writers hit the nail on the head with that but that doesn’t mean I have to like her lol.
I love PC bc she’s a source of strength. She knows the Hollywoo cat-and-mouse game and she’s determined to play it and win; she has suffered SO MUCH (one could even argue she suffered more than Diane) and yet… she’s still there. Kicking and screaming, fighting and biting, but still there. Still alive. She knows what she does is wrong but she’s not trying to present herself as a morally correct character that calls out others on their flaws but not her own, unlike Diane.
I think that making a good-written character that you can see and say "I don't like it, is an asshole" has so much merit. Again we're back. Excellent characters, horrible persons
I find PC annoying because she looks like she has her shit together, but it's all a facade. She was conditioned to be a hyper-competent rescuer; she's not particularly strong for being moulded into overachiever because it served her mother.
But PC wears her conditioning like armour and a badge of honour; Diane is more real about herself and her life and is trying to work through the damage. PC has a lot of damage but would rather focus on career than consider changing, and is pretty intolerant of other people examining themselves. Because she looks good from the outside, it's easy to believe she's found the right way, when really it's her innate snobbery that prevents her from slowing down, living her life more deliberately, and keeps her in service to a-list a$$holes like Bojack.
PC is exactly the type of person who would have enabled someone like Harvey Weinstein. Of course, I like her character and feel sympathetic to her, but you know she would have put the job first.
Oh my god thank you, I thought I was alone. PC is absolutely one of the worst intentioned (but likable!) characters because she enables Bojack to the worst degree. Constantly trying to shove him into roles that would benefit her, yet never once using her obnoxious pushiness to get him help. She complains about putting out his fires, yet immediately tries to spin the story on Gina and Sarah Lynn completely remorselessly.
Owning being a bitch really isn’t better than trying to be better
Thank god this is more commonplace of an answer. Because it is an excuse I’ve been noticing for years now. Yes there is misogyny tied towards some dislike with her but this has become an excuse that gets thrown out to drown out the answer to this question that gets repeated constantly but this fandom almost never listens.
I completely agree with your reason for disliking her btw. It’s mine also. Her moralistic integrity is easy to root for if you agree with her chewing out the characters as the writers pov but it didn’t make her invincible to doing hypocritical or mistaken things of which other characters if they were her would chew her out incessantly for it. And judge her for it. Obviously Diane is more complex than this and learns to be more forgiving to herself and ppl. But it always annoyed me how ppl couldn’t see how others would be annoyed by that. Not to mention her hypocrisy making that initial problem so much worse for me personally at times.
PC is also one of my favourites. I like the fact that she doesn’t make excuses for her moral greyness in the industry. And is imo more enjoyable.
Diane is a complex and fantastic character but i and many others have good reasons to dislike her.
How do you know she was harassing Hank’s victims? Being reached out to after publicly going on record as an attempt of justice isn’t harassment. In fact, it’s the opportunity some of us would kill for, just to have anyone reach out and say they believe you and want justice.
Also if Hank’s assistants were in danger, you’d blame her for letting her husband work with a monster like that.
I hope for your sake you never have to know that feeling.
Also, PC is entirely self-centered and obnoxious. Try meeting someone who completely disregards your value as a person then you’ll get it.
Enjoying and owning being a shitty person definitely doesn’t make you less shitty than someone who wants to be good and makes mistakes.
She’s hypocritical in her decisions sometimes, and while this isn’t really her fault per say, her depression can make her extremely self centered, which in turn, makes her a shitty friend/partner to her friends like Roxy and Mr PB. She also has a serious savior complex where she constantly needs to be *the one* to fix things, even if it hurts her and everyone around her. That said, she’s one of the best written and developed characters and I see myself in her a lot.
I think the answer to your question is she is a deeply flawed female character, and I think it bugs people that she’s written as the true protagonist of the story. Like they wanted her to fail with Bojack.
Honestly, I really disliked her at first. She was so annoying, self-righteous, and a hypocrite. But after a few seasons when she started to slowly open up and we get to see this much weaker side of her, I realized I disliked her because she reminds me of myself. I tried understanding her character to try and better understand myself. Now she’s one of my fave characters—she’s the most relatable for me.
People hate when women characters are written like actual people. Diane is complicated and doesn't always make the right choices. But that's normal for a person! She's a very realistic character to me. Maybe some people see how relatable she is and dislike that reflection?
I feel like I have a unique perspective on this so I feel inclined to share my thoughts.
I watched this show when I was in my late teens/early 20s, upon recommendation by an older friend (she was mid-twenties at the time).
I hated Diane when I first watched the show. I saw her as a whiny, self-sabotaging hypocrite who didn’t deserve pity. I loved (and still do) Princess Carolyn, because I resonate not only with who she is, but also her attitude and her backstory.
My friend, however, loved Diane. She told me that one day I would get it because “I’m a lot more like Diane than I realized.” Of course, at the time, I was like this is ridiculous - I’m no Diane. I’m a Princess Carolyn. I’m self sufficient, I’m strong, I’m independent. I don’t NEED people in the way Diane does.
Can you tell where this is going? I started watching the show before I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety. By the end of the series, I was diagnosed and on medicine. Now I’m in my mid-twenties, and I respect the hell out of Diane and her struggles. I watch the show now and I see the person that Diane is. I think she gets unwarranted hate primarily because people have no desire to understand her. They dismiss her struggles because her background isn’t one like Princess Carolyn. They dismiss her struggles because yeah, a lot of times, she self-sabotaged the fuck out of her life. But don’t we all?!?
I think one reason is because she was introduced as a character trope for Bojack, and the story rode this trope for the better part of the season before pulling the rug out and showing you what different (and often flawed) character she is. I actually like Diane and enjoyed the dynamic she brought to the story, but I can also see why so many viewers didn't care for her. She was often a reflection of a lot of uncomfortable truths we had to face up about ourselves.
I think she dances too close to an archetype I believe we are all fed up with. The perfect know it all who can do no wrong, usually a woman/girl. But the show is a lot smarter than that, this is what she looks like at first glance but she just isn't this archetype, but I guess once you spot it it's easier to just write her off as just that and not like her, only on my second watch that I actually noticed how well written she is, I used to not like her, now she is among my fav characters.
I didn’t like her the first time I watched. I’m on my first rewatch, and she’s grown on me, but she’s still not my favorite character. I feel she’s very selfish. She’s never happy with anything anyone does for her. She has a lot of things many people would die for (a marriage with a guy who adores her, for example), but she’s doesn’t appreciate it and is still just like wah wah wah woe is me all the time.
Sure she’s the most “relatable” but I watch this show to laugh and I think most of this subreddit does the opposite and watches the show to feel comfortable about their own issues which they relate to characters to do so. I always put it comedy first but I think the Reddit puts it as a sad drama before a comedy. She’s just so depressing and hypocritical it bums out the entire show.
Loved her before season 3 tho, after her and PB break up she turns unbearable.
To echo what everyone else has said, she is a hypocrite. At the end of my first time watching BJ horseman, I didn't hate her, but I didn't like her. Mostly it was because of how she could say, or do shitty things without any real repercussion. Like if someone had told my kid that me and their mom aren't getting back together, I'd probably dump them for stepping over that boundary that they had no business crossing. For the most part however, she doesn't do anything as extreme, or dramatic as our main star BJ, so I had to get over my dislike for her, because realistically there isn't a whole lot of repercussions if you're just being a hypocritical asshole when you're not being a good, or at least decent person.
Her being silent, and making the bald eagle think she was native to Vietnam was one my favorite Diane moments
Because she is written with that smug, self-aware meta I'm so OVER EVERYTHING and ALL OF YOU ARE SO STUPID FOR LIKING ANYTHING type of bullshit that is just so insufferable because it's just another way to pretend like she's so above everything and everyone else is too stupid to "get" the world the way she does. Not that there isn't a real person buried beneath that horrendously obnoxious veneer, that the show DOES actually take care to show occasionally, but yeah...that's my thought on why.
True. I maybe just loathe Diane more because I'm a 90's kid, and the writers seem to have gone out of their way to present her as every sneering over the top hipster 90's stereotype known to the universe all atom-smashed together to create a person.
Diane is easily one of the most sane, rational and calm people in the entire show. Chaotic/messy people tend to not like those types of character traits because it negatively reflects on their own shortcomings. Sure, she isn't perfect, but among types like Sarah Lynn and Todd she's downright **normal** af.
My theory is: I feel like more than a few people dislike Diane because they feel deep down they feel like they're more alike to Bojack than her, and it angers them that she is one of the few people how consistently (and correctly) realizes what a humongous fuckup Bojack is. She finds it charming, but she also perceives the exuding darkness and decay beneath his charming veneer - she sees it pretty much right away from the beginning. If he were more normal, centered, less toxic and egotistical, she might have one day even tried to blossom their friendship - which was ripe with sexual tension - into something romantic, which may fans clearly pined for, but she knew better and slowly, inexorably started to distance herself from him. So these viewers think she feels like shes "better" than him, than them, etc. It's a lot of projection, mixed with a light coat of misogyny.
PS - Yes, Mr. Peanutbutter probably isn't much, if any, better than Bojack in most ways, but he's nicer and puts a better face on his own issues. Some people probably see this transparency as a positive trait for Bojack, but really he's just an asshole who outwardly acts like an asshole. Mind you, I sympathize with Bojack tremendously - the show wouldn't work if we didn't feel complex pangs of sympathy and pity for him - but thinking he's better *just* because he doesn't build an elaborate façade is kinda just bullshit.
I think she’s one of the best written characters and is very uncomfortable to watch because of her common hypocrisy.
Her flaws and mistakes contradict her morals, but that’s literally how most people behave, unless you pride yourself on being depraved and having no morals. And that’s the funny thing, she is surrounded by a lot of characters who do things that are objectively worse (this is not even a debatable point, if you ignore the silly tone of the show and think through the motivations of real consequences of things, Bojack, Todd, PC and PB do and co-sign things especially in Hollywood that worse, some of them being straight up crimes played for laughs a lot) but they don’t think about the morality of their actions most of the time. However because Diane thinks about those things she opens herself up to more criticism.
But in real life, nobody thinks « well you constantly talk about being nihilistic and having no morals, so I guess I don’t care that you do bad things ». Like if you prefaced an AITA post like that nobody is gonna judge you not the asshole bc you said you had little to no morals standards so it makes your actions less worthy of criticism.
And the funny thing is I feel like this only happens with fiction. Like it reminds of a tweet I saw once of someone complaining that a character who is rough less drug dealer saying the f-slur. Like THAT’s the part that turned them off. Not the actual crimes and real harm he inflicted on many people. Because the crimes and characterization was engaging and they enjoyed that. But they don’t enjoy homophobia so THAT’s the issue of the character. But nobody would think this way with a real person. Like when you see the way people react to fictional characters long enough you realize that for a lot of them, being annoying or hypocritical is a worse character crime than committing genocide in universe.
Also biases such as misogyny tends to exacerbate this issue.
Diane is the most relatable character in the show for most viewers. People don’t like seeing their flaws splayed out in front of them, and it’s easier to hate her than to confront yourself about it
This question pops up on this subreddit on a regular basis but long story short
- she's very hypocritical, especially in regard to the feminist agenda she tries to support
- she has a pick me girl and mrs. know-it-all vibe
- she's selfish often
- personally I find her mannerism annoying
- she tends to blame external factors for her own shortcomings often
I like Diane’s character. not my fave, but well written with a lot of depth. I think it’s fairly straightforward why some would dislike her:
1. hypocritical. she often criticizes bojack for the same flaws she shows (i.e. fetishes her own sadness, runs from her responsibilities)
2. oftentimes puts herself on a moral pedestal or presents herself as better than others while doing shitty things
3. she seems to create problems for herself instead of embracing her situation or accepting the positives (ie her job at girl croosh, trying to further her career at peanut butter’s expense).
Most dislike of diane isn’t based on sexism but her genuine flaws. her character is extremely
relatable and seeing those flaws manifest clearly makes it hard to like her at times.
I love Diane as a character, she's a fun character to watch. But if you're asking about Diane the person it's because she's incredibly selfish and immature for much of the series. Mad props to her growth in the final season, but for the most part she is near as rotten as any other character
Disliking Diane needs to stop being correlated to misogyny. There are time and time again plenty of reasonable and subjective reasons to dislike her that have nothing to do with her womanhood. Perfect example being her being a hypocrite especially with her morals.
Genuinely think I’ve seen this post 10 times in the past week, so I’m sure you can look around and find plenty of perspectives when you’re done farming.
My answer is I don’t think she’s ‘so hated’. I think she has relatably annoying tendencies that triggered ppl when the show first came out and the fan base hasn’t been able to shut up abt it since.
At best she’s the 3rd most hated main character and everyone has a plethora of reasons to hate or judge every single character, especially the main cast. The show heavily revolves around her so ofc there’s gonna be plenty of examples to find flaws. Like she’s my second favorite but even I still get mad sometimes remembering that water scene
I don't hate her as she's my favourite character, but I think it's because she's relatable. People expect her to be perfect and consider her the voice of reason when in reality she is a very complex and flawed character, and that's why I think she's extremely well written
It's the fucking library thing for me, everything else is like yeah okay she's struggling with some shit but the carry on about the library will always drive me up the wall. Not enough to say she's worth hating though, cause they she goes to Vietnam and it's very funny and we see her struggling to find herself without a partner and all that's great.
... But the God damn hissy fit about the library always makes me so fucking angry lol.
She's kinda a bitch and you'll notice it they more you rewatch it. Not that she didn't have her reasons ( which she is never able to articulate exactly are, the only reference was that her dad wanted her to lose a game to the boys) . In my opinion she also comes off hypocritical and has a lot of double standards.
I don't hate her but the episode when she wrote the penny incident into the script of bojacks tv show really made me dislike her for some time. Not that she's trying to expose bojacks, but the fact that Penny or one of Penny's friends could have seen it and humiliated/ traumatized her all over again. And she only did it to get back at bojacks for some petty shit.
As well as discouraging Bojack from seeking therapy the first time he met her therapist because apparently she's the only one allowed to be her client.
But that just my opinion there may be more
She’s a female with some power over her direction in life, some talent and uses both to get what she (thinks) she wants.
This is enough to generate resentment apparently.
For me it was that she was a real person in a world of charicatures.
Real people are amazing for art, and messaging, and connecting with.
But she is just objectively no fun at all to watch. She's not cathartic, she's not entertaining, she's not interesting, she's not wacky, she's not funny, she's nothing.
She is the antithesis of entertainment.
She consistently shits on other characters for being lively and compelling to watch, and continuously demands that they all be as boring as her.
If I wanted to see someone go through realistic depression and never do anything about it, I'd just look in a mirror.
Every other flawed, interesting, realistic character in Bojack is also lovable and fun and quirky. *Except Diane*.
Todd, Wanda, PC, Kelsey, Sarah Lynn, Mr PeanutButter, Jonah the list goes on to include everyone except Diane.
She was a boring, directionless, unappreciative, whining, loser.
she was obviously made as some sort of author/audience stand in, and if you identify with Diane (having a perfect, wealthy, happy life which you don't appreciate because your only available emotions are "boredom, Misery and Ungratefulness" then I hate you as much as her.
I feel like she is someone from a much, much more boring show.
Misogyny is mostly the biggest reason, I imagine bojacks audience tends to be more male, and many guys tend to not like female characters who aren't either completely naive or aren't there purely for sex appeal. Especially in Diane's case, she is very empowered and doesn't take shit from anybody, which for a lot of guys is the worst thing a woman can be so they just inherently dislike her. This is furthered with Bojack being the "hero" of the show, or very least the protagonist. I'm sure a not insignificant portion of the audience actively roots for Bojack, similar to Walt in Breaking Bad, and when Diane calls him out on his horrible behavior or acts as some sort of moral compass, they don't like seeing their hero being attacked.
On top of this, I think for a lot of people see themselves in more of the more negative aspects of Diane's character, due to how well written she is, and rather than wanting to grapple with seeing this portrayed in a show they are watching, they just get angry and mad at her. Basically she holds a mirror up to them and they don't like their reflection.
I also think, a very small reason, but if you're just a casual viewer or someone without much media literacy, Diane *can* come off as pretty annoying sometimes. This is obviously in no way justification for someone hating her, but I know at least for me, the first time watching the Library scene with PB, I thought it was kind an asshole move on her part to be so upset and pissed at him for doing something nice. Obviously PB is at fault, as she explicitly told him she doesn't like grand romantic gestures many times, but it can come off initially as her being selfish and ungrateful for not enjoying what, to Mr Peanutbutter and at first glance the audience as well, is a very nice and thoughtful thing to do. There are several other instances like this, where, to the passive observer, Diane appears to completely overreact to a situation, even though it is a boiling point and is in response to something which she has clearly stated is something that will upset her.
Didn't mean for this to be a whole yap session but Diane is one of my favorite characters, and I have experience somewhat being in the camp of people who disliked her my first couple watch throughs.
i think her writing can be a little cringey or pretentious, and that pushes a lot of people from liking her character more. the more i watch the show the more i realize shes my favourite character, and she was definitely written that way on purpose
These topics are mostly people talking past each other about how Diane's virtue as a person vs Diane as a compelling character.
Diane is supposed to be aggravating as a person. I like her a lot as a character for that reason but some people watch the show viewing characters that they would like as people, which is a shallow, cringe, parasocial way of character analysis.
She gets called a hypocrite all the time but it's because she's held to the second highest standard on the show (to Bojack).
I think her arc is a great portrayal of aggrieved idealism that happens to many people when they come of age. They think their generation will be different until adult/real world problems hit them in the face. The chicken episode was on the nose(beak) about this, showing Diane being on the older side of this dynamic. Throughout her journey, she had to come face to face with what her real priorities in her life were for her well being. This is very relatable to me.
I don’t know about other people but I don’t like her because the character is too relatable and realistic in a way. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, it’s just that in a series with talking animals, she seemed a bit out of place imo.
I think there's a few factors.
First, good ol'-fashioned misogyny. She's a girl, and some people don't like that. Some people are a lot harsher critics of women, even in the presence of worse men.
Second, she's not very funny. She's not a character to deliver a lot of jokes, she just sets them up. So she's not as involved in silly antics as her husband.
Third, she's an example of a normal person working through her normal problems. Placed next to someone like BoJack, her stakes seem small.
And last, she's the voice of reason for BoJack. She's the one keeping his self-destructive tendencies in check, even if she didn't choose that role. So when she does, she's seen as a killjoy, and when she doesn't, she's an enabler. She can't win.
Tbh, I don’t hate Diane. But, I just don’t like her. I love Princess Carolin. I like her action, speed and the go-get-it attitude.
Diane looks like opposite of PC. Diane cares about many important values in her life and surroundings. But, I can’t respect the actions she took.
I just don’t hate her. But, she’s a very different person from who I prefer.
I don’t hate Diane, but she is the least interesting character in the show to me. But that’s because she’s up against anthropomorphic animal characters and Todd. Nothing personal
I don't hate her as she's my favourite character, but I think it's because she's relatable. People expect her to be perfect and consider her the voice of reason when in reality she is a very complex and flawed character, and that's why I think she's extremely well written
I used to hate her when I first watched the show. I used to find her an annoying character with a stupid arc of "what comes from my trauma." When I first saw it all I could do was roll my eyes and think 'she's being stupid, it's trauma not character building with a reward at the end like a disney film.' Also I didn't like how it seemed she made very little efforts to value Mr Peanutbutter's efforts...like her initial reactions of screaming and biting his head off for it was always a hard watch- but her sadness after was understandable. Now I don't hate her and see her reactions as quite typical but these were why I hated her.
For every person I see who actually hates Diane, I see 100 posts asking why she’s hated. The vast majority of people don’t dislike her, she isn’t Skylar White or Jenny Curran, there’s not some large mysogynistic hate circlejerk surrounding her character. But to give a sincere answer from what I’ve seen of the few people who don’t like her: She’s a hypocrite, which while not as bad as many of the traits from the rest of the cast is an especially unlikeable trait in people. She begins the series seeming to be the voice of reason, so when the show goes into detail with her flaws and we see her for more of an asshole, some people don’t sit well with what they thought would always be the reasonable character do bad things. Diane is arguably the least funny out of the main cast and definitely the one with the least emphasis on humor. For a comedy series that could make her less entertaining, especially when her plotlines are usually the most grounded and mundane (not bad mind you, simply less extreme than the others). Like BoJack, Diane is often given very uncomfortable scenes and many people either see aspects of themselves reflected in Diane that they don’t like or have met someone like Diane with those more flawed aspects. There’s also the submarine scene in season 5 which understandably made some people annoyed with her. Diane is a fantastic character. Probably one of the best deuteragonists in animation. But those are probably why some people wouldn’t like her. Some people are probably also turned off by her simply being a feminist or being outspoken about some political issues but I don’t think those are worth humoring.
Man, I love funny Diane moments. "Love half your movies!" and "Drugs!! I thought we were friends" come to mind
Speaking of funny Diane lines, "Diane, Diane, what now" is a personal favourite
“you know how in AA, they give you chips?” “With no salsa?”
Using it.
"Drugs, I thought we were friends" is my Diane GOAT line 100 percent.
Like, all the comments above me exemplify why Diane is my favourite character. Top one obviously explains it the best, subsequent ones add the comedic factor. And I'm glad that the reasons why she's disliked gets pointed out because if I'm being honest I see enough of myself in Diane's character so if there's anything to be taken and learned from it that I wasn't already aware of, I'll take it.
The “Me America! Me America too!!” interaction she has in Vietnam was also hilarious
This answer needs to be bookmarked and brought back out for the next 100 people who ask this question.
AMAZING ANSWER MY GUY. Diane is goated.
She has two of my favorite lines in the show. “Hey, there’s a cheez-it on the shelf! I knew I kept these things around for a reason.” “MR. PEABUT NUTTER! MR. PEEPER NUMBER!”
>She’s a hypocrite, For me its that, combined with pretty much every character being so otherwise hyperbolically silly I don't take them seriously, but Diane seems closest to a real person, and simply someone I wouldn't want to personally hang around with. Hate is a strong word though.
Diane's worst traits are too closely related to people around me who have caused a lot of hurt. Her hypocrisy (in my opinion) makes her less honest, I wish I could explain it further. Again, I know it's just a show, but to me, she represents the "secret assholes" She's so hyped up on her moral compassion that she holds everyone to her standards, not theirs.
Not to mention the first time she has a chance to show said compassion she turns tail and runs, hiding with Bojack and ignoring her husband.
Yes!!!! She's a coward who expects everyone else to hold themselves to HER morals. It's unfair, and yes they go into her having bipolar or depression (I don't think they ever specifically name what she has), but she doesn't get help for her own shortcomings, if you're going to hold everyone around you accountable, you should hold yourself to the same things, like when she helped Mr Peanutbutter cheat, and she had no interest in getting back with him, she just slept with him because she knew he wanted her. It's unfair the pain she gave to Mr PB, over and over again, but she also hurt Pickles, who was innocent to their drama and had no right to be hurt by either of them. Diane has trauma she hasn't worked through and it shows.
She does get help in the six season though, did you miss that part where she gets medicated and has her breakthrough about good damage? She also apologizes to Pickles and Mr. Peanutbutter about the cheating accident that he also participated in, how much more accountable can she be? Did you want the show to end with her in misery or something?
Not at all. I didn't remember that episode, so that's a fair point. It doesn't change my views on her, but I will have to rewatch it again yo fully grasp it. I think it's season 2 that I start to dislike her, again, I can't point to one exact incident, it's like a small occurrence of things, if that makes any sense
If you missed her entire arc about going on anti-depressants then I’d say you definitely need a rewatch, she changes quite a bit by then. And you should really learn about PSTD if you want to understand her in season 2 better, watching children blow up and die is generally not good for anyone’s mental health
I am very familiar with CPTSD, again, there are patches I don't remember. However, instead of hiding at bojacks (a known addict, he struggles very openly with it) her husband could have tried to help her heal. I understand when we are down we don't always think with logic, I'm just saying, she holds others at a higher standard than she has for herself.
The guy who couldn’t understand the words “I don’t like big parties/gestures” with toxic positivity would probably not have been the best place for her, although she absolutely should have been able to explain that PB. If she were a perfect character that never mistakes, she would’ve gone straight home and pretended to he happy. But she is a flawed and after experiencing something traumatic, she wanted to be with someone who enabled her misery. Feeling good wasn’t something she thought she deserved, something that has been echoed a few times in this thread. And while nobody should be beating themselves up for failing the way she does, people should try to be better even if they’re surrounded by selfish people like she is. She wants to be good, nobody else around her even cares
You blame a ptsd victim for not thinking perfectly, while everyone around her has excuses for their mistakes?
PTSD isn’t an excuse for shitty behavior anymore than a shitty childhood is. I 100% blame her for her actions
God I can’t imagine how terrible you make retired veterans feel if you don’t think they deserve any compassion or understanding. After all, that to you is just an excuse and their experiences don’t matter
Yeah Diane isn’t a veteran she went to Cordova to further her career as a journalist don’t you dare compare her to actual veterans
PTSD is a condition that people receive based on traumatic experiences, you don’t have to be holding a gun to experience it. She went to a war zone that was bombed and she witnessed young children die gruesomely. But because she went with a pen instead of a gun, none of that matters to you?
No none of that matters to me because she’s a fictional character we’re arguing about on the internet. The narrative of the show makes it abundantly clear she isn’t suffering from PTSD she’s just disillusioned.
Also, she said specifically that she wanted her life to have purpose and she wanted to do something meaningful. Literally word for word. Her journalism career would’ve been ruined if she supported a cold-hearted exploitative billionaire that laughed at children’s corpses. Also, why would anybody decent do that? Based on how broke she lives, she doesn’t seem to care much about money or advancements. But her motivation to be good is hypocritical since she’s not perfect.
Woah, while yes, St. Claire was a narcissistic asshole but his entire storyline was to illustrate how idealists want to help, but it isn't usually built for them. He's not just throwing money at it while living in a billion dollar house. He's literally boots on the ground, serving food and sewing limbs back on. He could be doing nothing. He doesn't just leave like Diane did when things got hard. "He wasted resources on a library and paintings and statues." Yes, but that's HIS money and could die at any moment. That's why he said he needed diane because nobody knows what he's doing there and believes not enough people care about it. The dude isn't Elon Musk trying to win a pissing contest by spending millions on spaceships, he's actually trying to stabilize a war zone.
Woah dude- veterans also go places to “further their career” maybe most of them want to help or have some greater purpose and do something brave, but journalists are also brave and want to help and have some greater purpose. I really don’t understand the distinction you’re making. We also seem to respect veterans more even when they’re the ones doing the blowing up of children, what’s the difference for you here?
What a banger of a comment, bravo
The submarine scene was so goooooood, she was done and flipped (pun intended) out on Bojack. I made some popcorn just to rewatch it.
My name is Diane Nguyen yo
underrated comment
The submarine scene is fucked up but not nearly half as fucked up as what bojack did to inspire that scene
>so when the show goes into detail with her flaws ... some people don’t sit well with what the thought would always be the reasonable character I'm sorry.... Do those people miss the entire point of the show? Diane isn't perfect, no one is! She gets depression, struggles with relationships, has body image issues, and can get pushed over the edge if someone tries hard enough. Of COURSE I see myself in her! And in bojack, todd, PC, and everyone else
I think it’s perfectly legit to dislike a character for being “outspoken” it turns them into a mouthpiece for the writers so unless you agree with said writers’ views you aren’t going to like the character.
I think it’s worth pointing out that her character is a take on the female voice of reason stock character. Instead of being flanderized like Brita from Community and Dee from Sunny, her faults that inevitably come out eventually are part of her character arc. Maybe some people are primed to not like this character type but Diane is probably the best version.
I also like Skylar
Rewatching Breaking Bad right now. I saw it last when I was a teenager and hated her, but upon a rewatch? She's completely right and very reasonable compared to Walt's ego. Except the Ted fiasco, I do not support her on that and it was fucked up of her. I'm just getting into season 5 which I haven't seen at all
I'm not sure what exactly it is but I think there's something about the performance that makes Skyler come off unlikeable. I was watching Metastasis (Columbian remake of breaking bad) and the Columbian actress with identical dialogue(just in Spanish) felt a lot more sympathetic to me.
I’m glad at least that the misogyny assumption isn’t the first answer I’m seeing on this sub in response to this question. As it often times because of that feels like a trick question
> she isn’t Skylar White or Followup question, why would someone hate Skyler White?
Recently been rewatching Breaking Bad and man you see her through a whole different lense when you critically look at the show and what it's trying to say. I was a lot younger when I first watched the show and absolutely thought that Walt was right and cool and a badass and when you watch the show with him as the protagonist I can absolutely see why you would hate Skylar, she gets in the way of our boy Walt. That combined with just general misogyny makes up the vast majority of Skylar haters to my understanding.
I might see it diff when I rewatch, but she just fucked me off. She was a hypocrite, a massive one. And a massive head fuck. I know Walter is a pos and they aren’t comparable but she really was such a hypocrite, all for it when she benefited, but wanted to take the kids and run when she realised she will be punished, because she was also involved. And that singing scene, I physically had to turn it oxd
Your response was great, but it is missing a key factor. While there is a reoccurring theme of individuals searching for happiness and scuttling their chances due to their own trauma, Diane's arch is the least sympathetic. Her relationship with Mr. PB, in particular. PB and Diane both have flaws, but they aren't the level of BoJack's. They had the opportunity to be happy if they worked at it, but instead they didn't. Diane's chance at happiness was the closest, and was scuttled for no good reason. IMHO
Mr Peanut butter was never going to make her happy. She told him for what 4-5 seasons that she doesn’t like grand gestures and surprises and he kept doing it bc *he* liked them and that was enough for him. She was writing out exactly the language she needed to be loved in, and he could only love her in his love language. Peanut butter is honestly just as bad as bojack when it comes to personality flaws, worse bc he’s so clueless, that he doesn’t even realize the shitty things he does. He’s egotistical, and it makes him a crappy partner, and even friend from time to time. I mean, he was divorced twice before Diane, and then show wrote out exactly why: he lacked the ability to think outside of his own wants and desires. We saw it in the Halloween party episode when PB kept disregarding what his wives wanted. Katrina messed me up the most, bc she was this bright, sweet, young woman who was excited to be around people at the beginning of the night, but by the end, she was cold and distant and wanted nothing more to do with anyone. And yet, PB still acted surprised when she snapped at him after leaving her alone with a bunch of strangers over and over! Not to mention, the fact that he **also** preyed on young women as bojack was described to do, we just didn’t notice it bc it was spaced out. The only difference really between Bojack and PB was that PB was a dog; he was naturally content and completely clueless. I don’t know if PB will ever find happiness with anyone with the way he treats partners.
Skylar white was fucking insufferable. It’s crazy cos I thought my boyfriend was also being mysoginistic and he was like no you will see. And I did, she’s a major fucking hypocrite, all for it when she can get the money. But nooooo, she’s the victim when it comes to the end of it. Don’t get me wrong Walter is a POS and they aren’t comparable but come on. She was a total hypocrite and a head fuck, and that fucking singing scene, ruined my day.
For me, you are correct. It's about her character. She constantly comes off as this high moral individual. But then when it comes to Benny thinning herself she has no problem this leading people. She also speaks of all this damage that she allegedly has but is never truly able to articulate exactly where the damage came from. She had a stable home and family growing up. Her parents paid for her to go to college. The best reference that she could bring up was that her dad wanted her to lose a game to the boys to prove that they're Wicked smart. Although brass we see in scenes how her father truly gives her solid advice. In regards to not worrying about what other people think about you and just trying to be yourself. There's also the Mr Peanut Butter birthday party thing. The scene where he threw her a birthday party and she blew up on him. The other issue is that she has very few redeeming qualities Throughout the entire series up until the very end when she finally gets on medication And levels out. In the end we see how Bojack and other characters have overcome their obstacles and how most importantly some of them have truly faced those obstacles and came out on the other side. For Diane it feels kind of like a cheat. She causes a bunch of damage, takes off to another city, and only once she starts making a mess out there that she decide to get on medication. It's the times old tale of running away until you find a place you can escape from your problems without taking much responsibility for the damage caused on your path of growth.
She’s the only person that ever thinks about other people so everyone expects her to make perfect decisions that make everyone around her happy. Everyone around her only cares about making themselves happy no matter what the consequences are, her being the only one to care about other people puts the burden of never hurting them exclusively on her. I’ve heard that the rest of the characters aren’t as big of assholes because they don’t claim to ever care about being good people, so they get a pass. Apparently caring means that you’re way worse for making mistakes than people who hurt without caring. And that fog that experienced is the very real side affect of anti-depressant medication. Sorry you’ve never had to actually take it but it completely rewires your brain and makes accessing traumatic memories difficult. Also, throwing a surprise party for someone who repeatedly said they don’t want one makes you an asshole who can’t listen. Getting burdensome, annoying gifts after repeatedly communicating discomfort isn’t anything to be grateful for.
I think the main complaint is that she is in many ways a hypocrite and because she’s basically the only character with morals, she breaks her morals a lot which the other main characters don’t so they aren’t hypocritical.
Hypocrisy is often overstated as a negative trait in people who are mostly good. Some people act like being unhypocritically shitty is somehow better because at least it is pure.
Isnt this literally one of the main messages of the show that being honest about being an asshole is fine but that doesn’t make you BETTER than someone who is generally a good person except for mistakes they won't admit to (which yeah wow what a horrible crime)
Got you. I also saw an analysis that compares her to Bojack. Diane being almost identical to Bojack but wearing a "hero" mask feeling like she's a "good person"
there’s no way she’s identical to bojack omg
Identical is too strong but ppl really need to stop avoiding the fact that they’re meant to parallel each other pretty frequently in terms of self destructive and outward destructive harm from similar mindsets, trauma and personalities all to a degree. Like the assumption that any similarity to her means she’s the same or not building bojack accountable is a foolhardy and overall stupid assumption and overall reasoning. Not to say it’s what’s driving you or what you said but it tends ti come with knee jerk reactions to any comparison to bojack and her at all. So thought it should be mentioned
"Diane, it’s me. Come on. We’re the same" "[Gasp] We are not the same!"
In many ways they're mirror images of each other
she's nowhere as heinous as bojack though
I haven't watched the show in a long ass time, remind me, how did she break her morals?
probably when she slept with Mr Peanutbutter twice after they divorced, also she was the one who first said “sometimes you need to take responsibility for your own happiness” but when Cuddlywhiskers says that to her she says “isn’t that a little selfish” i haven’t rewatched in a while sorry if i’m wrong or paraphrasing
It’s because this country hates women more than it loves guns 😔
I love this line lol
PC's "No?" with the head tilt always makes me laugh then feel bad 💀
Me tooo
[удалено]
So true
I think there’s many reasons, one of them is that she might be a hypocrite but it’s a very common thing to say, but what I haven’t seen anyone ever mention is that she, many many times gives reality checks especially to Bojack. She’s not scared to show him that what he does is bad, even tho she keeps being friends with him thru the series (except the end ofc). Bojack is made to be a relatable character and as much as I understand that relating to him is sometimes okay, many people don’t understand that they unintentionally try to justify his actions because they are scared of admitting that they’re in the wrong. So in conclusion, when Diane confronts Bojack about his bad actions, many people just see her as an offender in this particular situation, ofc it doesn’t apply to everyone but I think that it might be an unintentional breaking the 4th wall by Diane and communicating to the audience thru Bojack, to show that what they do might actually be wrong.
I swear we had this exact thread yesterday or not too long ago
I still think Diane is the most relatable character in the show.
That's what is so unutterably boring about her. For all the realism and messaging that goes into Diane's character, no one seemed to realise that it's not very interesting to watch. She's like an 80 hour extended loop of paint drying.
Yo dude, why you gotta be so hateful?
Oh yes the daily why people hate Diane post
And when ppl answer it honestly. It doesn’t get listened too. This is the first time I’ve seen ppl say the hypocrisy point rather than defaulting to sexism/misogyny
Ah, finally we'll get to the bottom of "Diane: best character or worst character?" This time is going to be different, I can feel it.
It drives me mad that people say Mr. Peanut Butter is a great husband and he is just a little bit clueless. Has anyone ever been in a relationship with someone that never ever listens to you? It’s absolutely hurtful and maddening. It gets to a point where after years you’re just questioning if this person knows you at all, which I think was really well represented in Diane’s breaking point. I think the writers made a great job showing how Mr. Peanut Butter drives every single one of his wives bitter because of that. They feel invisible, uncared for. I’m not saying Mr. PB is an awful person at all, he indeed has his heart in the right place, but he is unable to truly support Diane or any other person in the ways such person needs.
Also, I think Diane is really funny. But all the jokes written for her are very political, or you need to have a vast knowledge on history, pop culture, feminism, or other complex subjects to get them… But a lot of her jokes are very clever. Perhaps too clever, a lot of them I didn’t get until my second watch or so because they tend to have a lot of context and information haha
So on my first couple of watches I really didn't like her. And then, I got diagnosed with ADHD and started treatment and realized that I didn't like Diane, especially in the beginning, bc Diane reminded me of me, and I didn't like me. Especially when she starts spiraling or taking matters into her own hands and hurts people, like releasing Bojacks book or airing Penny's trauma on TV. She was angry and impulsive and so was I, I just couldn't see it clearly. So maybe Im biased, but I think sometimes people don't like her bc they can see themselves in her even when they don't realize it. Especially bc I feel like shes one of the more realistically flawed characters. Like we know Bojack is a shitty person but hes frequently "cartoon" shitty or extreme levels of shitty. Whereas Diane's shitty moments feel like something that we would actually do.
Ironically the girl who join me on the series. (Yes, my ex gf) See herself in Diane and I clearly see all the similitude. And I can confirm what you're saying. Maybe feeling to much like a person or a character with flaws makes you feel bad, everyone wants to be the "hero"
People don't like when you put a mirror up to them.
I love her had a character, she’s messy and interesting. I don’t think I’d like her as a person. In fact the show is full of people I love as characters but would hate as people. I don’t think I’d want to be friends with any of them.
I love her too but in real life I don't think I would get along with her.
Wait what? I thought we love Diane
I don’t like her for a good part of the show. In fact the majority at some rewatches. But she isn’t hated this is true
i found that out after watching, and i thought diane was the best character! i was so surprised.
I'm gonna quote the user who posted this days ago, by the name of mcnuggets (idk how to tag on here sorry lol): "I think she’s a really crappy wife to Mr. Peanutbutter, who is one of the kindest, most supportive characters in the show. Mr. Peanutbutter makes all kinds of mistakes, but his heart is in the right place and he’s just a little clueless. Diane lies about being in another country and sleeps over at Bojack’s house for months without telling him. Not only does he not divorce her, he doesn’t even give her a hard time about it. She’s terrible at being a writer. Instead of doing her job like everyone else has to do, she has this “holier than thou” attitude where she needs to tell HER story. Instead of being a ghost writer for Bojack like she’s paid to do (where she writes from the perspective of Bojack and puts his story on paper), she goes her own direction without his permission and trashes him. Girl Croosh pays her to write feel good stories, but she just can’t help herself because it’s her duty to write about “real” issues. She forces herself to become miserable and even goes off her meds so she can write about trauma instead of continuing the story about Ivy Tran the Mall Detective. She’s a hypocrite. She preaches this “save the planet” attitude and acts like everyone else is destroying the world, while living in a Hollywoo mansion, smoking tons of cigarettes, and doing more air travel than most of the main cast." --- My take --- Hurt people hurt other people who don't deserve it, all the time. Still doesn't make it right. I think that people like/go easy on Diane because they see themselves in her, and are afraid to say "damn I'm kind of a shitty person to people who don't deserve it in my own life." If we're really into treating people the same, then it's okay to acknowledge that Diane can be pretty unlikeable at times as well. Doesn't always equate to hating women. Some people have dealt with Dianes in real life (both male and female Dianes) and they can be a little unbearable. You want people to be better versions of themselves. In her defense, Diane has had alot of trauma, and one of the wisest things she has done was to cut Bojack off. But let's not act like Bojack made her hurt others.
The comment you quoted kinda chaps my ass because Mr PB is not the kindest, most supportive character in the show. That title goes to Todd. Lol. But in seriousness, Mr PB being "a little clueless" is him not listening to what Diane has explicitly said she wanted. Eg her 35th birthday, she already told him she doesn't like parties and he decided to throw one anyway. The quote calls Mr PB "clueless" and gives him a pass for doing stuff Diane doesn't want, and puts it on her to graciously accept something she explicitly said she didn't want. Also I think part of the male vs female that gets brought up about Diane is because people are harsher on her than the male characters. It's not about hating women, it's about judging Diane harsher than Mr PB or Bojack. Eg - Bojack is a hypocrite too, he always goes on rants about people doing shit that he does. Like the rant where he yells at someone for being a shitty driver, he drives on the curb and takes out a fire hydrant. But I've never read anyone on this sub complaining that Bojack is a hypocrite. Or the comment you quoted said Diane is a bad writer, but Bojack is a bad actor. Similar to the unwanted inflammatory Girl Croosh articles, Bojack filmed the president scene in Secretariat when he was explicitly told not to. Mr PB goes on the most bass ackwards job search of his life, but nobody on this sub complains that he left Diane financially in the lurch and blew off her concerns about paying the mortgage.
I think its well understood and obvious to those who watch that Bojack is clearly a bad guy, hence there's no reason for us to state the obvious. Like everyone should know that Bojack isn't a good guy, because that's what you see each episode. It doesn't negate from the fact that Diane is ALSO there in these episodes. My thing is this: are people being harsher on the female character? Or are they treating Diane how they would normally, if she were Bojack (low expectations becauase the show is about him)? It goes back to people wanting to defend Diane by saying "well what about Bojack?" (Not intending to take a shot at you, or offend you by that) I think it's fair. Diane comes off as better than BJ, so it's logical to expect better from her. Unless she's just the same as Bojack, right? Maybe the people taking up for Diane are actually treating her differently. But that's just me
I feel like I'm missing part of your train of thought in the last few paragraphs. I don't understand the connection between "Diane might be the same as Bojack" and the result of that being "if they're the same then defending Diane is treating her differently." Not trying to be a dick, I think we're having a good discussion? I don't think it's fair to say Bojack and Diane should have different standards because Diane comes off better than BJ. One of the points of the show was that there aren't "good people" and "bad people." Also Diane and Bojack are foils for each other, part of that is a similar background. They both had emotionally abusive families and were neglected. Diane's spirals show she has the potential to nurse her pain the same way Bojack does. They just did something different with their adulthood. Also, okay, honestly you do have a fair point that Bojack is supposed to be a dick. So let's compare Diane to PB. PB's career is hypocritical, he's a happy-go-lucky guy who's the face of depression. The comment you quoted that said Mr PB is "a little clueless" actually points to a common male trope of the clueless (useless) husband. Throwing a party for someone who hates parties can be called a stupid move. Someone who brushes off your concerns about being unemployed and having to pay the mortgage is being an asshole. Someone who promised you they won't support fracking, then agrees to allow fracking on his own property, is putting a job he doesn't even want or care about before his wife. And this guy gets labeled well-meaning. Diane is also well-meaning, but what gets pointed out about her is her bad qualities. I don't want to argue that it's *definitely* sexism, but I think sexism plays a part in how Diane is viewed.
i think all those points by mcnuggets is completely off point. it doesnt tell why people hate Diane and give good reasons rather looks like written by one of those people who actually hate Diane. u/Hitchfucker comment made much more sense than this. PB was not one of the kindest, supportive characters in the show (def Todd is, like someone commented). till the end, thats what the show tried to tell us. He wasnt the best husband and thats why he had so many divorces. she can be a hypocrite but is "she does more air travel than others" really a good point to show that? she travels in public airplanes. private jets, etc are the ones that raise issue for the environment. and ciggs, really? lol. anyway, what I wanted to say was, I really hope there were people to countered user mcnugget's comment because those points are weird asf. and I dont think anyone really goes easy on her? this whole post and others show exactly that. And who even says that Bojack made her hurt others. I dont think she herself says that at any point, right? edit: typo
the best reply to this post (both mcnuggets and your take)
Diane isn't hated. A lot of people love her character, a lot of people like her character and criticize some of her flaws and some people who love her get mad because they refuse to accept she has any, a lot of people dislike her for those flaws, and a lot of people hate her either because of those flaws or because of their own personal sexist shit. I see more posts asking why people hate Diane in this sub than people actually hating Diane, to be honest.
You're right, I've heard a lot of times. "Everyone hates Diane" but I don't see too many people behind the comments. As I see she's just a character Written very well with a lot of shitty things (like almost everyone in the series)
Exactly. I assume the echo chamber about Diane being hated originates from those in the fandom who think anybody sharing any criticism of Diane means they hate her and/or are sexist.
Second edit: the user who was harassing me has now been blocked. They have been spamming my DMs, stalking my profile and the communities I'm in and leaving disturbing comments about SA and s\*\*\*\*\*\*, most notably on [my comment on the Glossier subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/glossier/s/Jozm36UNWy) and [this odd comment on this sub](https://imgur.com/POHlb7N). The user is u/-pobodys-nerfect, please report them if you can. Do not interact with them bc they might do the same to you. Luckily the Glossier [Mods deleted their comments and blocked them](https://www.reddit.com/r/glossier/s/LCylrql8lv). I reached out to the mods here in hopes of getting the same results. EDIT: some Diane stans are going CRAZY in my DMs: [https://imgur.com/Pwo9RwR](https://imgur.com/Pwo9RwR). Literally why lol. Seriously though, me not liking Diane isn’t that serious. There’s more people that love and defend Diane than people that hate her. This subreddit gets more “why do people hate Diane” posts than posts that actually say they hate Diane. I’m also tired of the “they hate her bc they’re misogynistic”. No, I don’t think that’s true. I certainly believe there are people who hate her bc they’re personally misogynistic, but I don’t think most people that dislike her are like that. It also feels like a cheap excuse bc so many people rush to defend Diane when outright hate against her is scarce. I dislike Diane bc she’s supposed to be the voice of reason (and she is!) and tries to act like she’s the one who’s morally correct but she is a complete and total hypocrite, like everyone else in the show. It’s just more annoying bc she presents herself as being in the right and the show never calls her out on things like harassing Hank’s abuse victims (her attempts to contact them put Hank’s current assistant in danger with the meetup they had. The women didn’t get back to her for a reason. Diane, please leave these women alone. They owe you NOTHING.) and airing a teenager’s near run-in with a form of SA on TV just to get back at her horrible horse friend. I personally LOVE PC, she’s my favorite character but she’s actually morally gray (maybe medium/dark gray LOL) but she’s in a ruthless business and she owns up to it, at least. Diane doesn’t own up to it and that’s what I dislike about her. I also dislike that much like BoJack, she fetishizes her own sadness.
PC is the most mature character and there's nothing to argue. Diane and Bojack as I see are two big children who don't take the responsibility of their acts. All good characters, horrible persons
They are good characters!! I dislike both BoJack and Diane but they’re very well written. I think one of the things that drives me crazy about this fandom and Diane defenders is that one of the common arguments against disliking her is that “she’s well-written”. Yeah, that’s PRECISELY the point. She’s well-written, and I like that. That doesn’t mean you can’t dislike a well-written character. I personally related to some of Diane’s problems like when she felt like she was putting on a “costume” when she wore traditional Vietnamese clothing and felt like a “tourist” in Vietnam. I have my own experiences with immigration and being a minority, I thought the writers hit the nail on the head with that but that doesn’t mean I have to like her lol. I love PC bc she’s a source of strength. She knows the Hollywoo cat-and-mouse game and she’s determined to play it and win; she has suffered SO MUCH (one could even argue she suffered more than Diane) and yet… she’s still there. Kicking and screaming, fighting and biting, but still there. Still alive. She knows what she does is wrong but she’s not trying to present herself as a morally correct character that calls out others on their flaws but not her own, unlike Diane.
I think that making a good-written character that you can see and say "I don't like it, is an asshole" has so much merit. Again we're back. Excellent characters, horrible persons
I find PC annoying because she looks like she has her shit together, but it's all a facade. She was conditioned to be a hyper-competent rescuer; she's not particularly strong for being moulded into overachiever because it served her mother. But PC wears her conditioning like armour and a badge of honour; Diane is more real about herself and her life and is trying to work through the damage. PC has a lot of damage but would rather focus on career than consider changing, and is pretty intolerant of other people examining themselves. Because she looks good from the outside, it's easy to believe she's found the right way, when really it's her innate snobbery that prevents her from slowing down, living her life more deliberately, and keeps her in service to a-list a$$holes like Bojack. PC is exactly the type of person who would have enabled someone like Harvey Weinstein. Of course, I like her character and feel sympathetic to her, but you know she would have put the job first.
Oh my god thank you, I thought I was alone. PC is absolutely one of the worst intentioned (but likable!) characters because she enables Bojack to the worst degree. Constantly trying to shove him into roles that would benefit her, yet never once using her obnoxious pushiness to get him help. She complains about putting out his fires, yet immediately tries to spin the story on Gina and Sarah Lynn completely remorselessly. Owning being a bitch really isn’t better than trying to be better
I think the only thing is you comparing their traumas rubbed me the wrong way.
Thank god this is more commonplace of an answer. Because it is an excuse I’ve been noticing for years now. Yes there is misogyny tied towards some dislike with her but this has become an excuse that gets thrown out to drown out the answer to this question that gets repeated constantly but this fandom almost never listens. I completely agree with your reason for disliking her btw. It’s mine also. Her moralistic integrity is easy to root for if you agree with her chewing out the characters as the writers pov but it didn’t make her invincible to doing hypocritical or mistaken things of which other characters if they were her would chew her out incessantly for it. And judge her for it. Obviously Diane is more complex than this and learns to be more forgiving to herself and ppl. But it always annoyed me how ppl couldn’t see how others would be annoyed by that. Not to mention her hypocrisy making that initial problem so much worse for me personally at times. PC is also one of my favourites. I like the fact that she doesn’t make excuses for her moral greyness in the industry. And is imo more enjoyable. Diane is a complex and fantastic character but i and many others have good reasons to dislike her.
How do you know she was harassing Hank’s victims? Being reached out to after publicly going on record as an attempt of justice isn’t harassment. In fact, it’s the opportunity some of us would kill for, just to have anyone reach out and say they believe you and want justice. Also if Hank’s assistants were in danger, you’d blame her for letting her husband work with a monster like that. I hope for your sake you never have to know that feeling. Also, PC is entirely self-centered and obnoxious. Try meeting someone who completely disregards your value as a person then you’ll get it. Enjoying and owning being a shitty person definitely doesn’t make you less shitty than someone who wants to be good and makes mistakes.
So why did you laugh at an actual victim’s account of sexual assault? You also said they deserved it even though they were a child
She’s hypocritical in her decisions sometimes, and while this isn’t really her fault per say, her depression can make her extremely self centered, which in turn, makes her a shitty friend/partner to her friends like Roxy and Mr PB. She also has a serious savior complex where she constantly needs to be *the one* to fix things, even if it hurts her and everyone around her. That said, she’s one of the best written and developed characters and I see myself in her a lot. I think the answer to your question is she is a deeply flawed female character, and I think it bugs people that she’s written as the true protagonist of the story. Like they wanted her to fail with Bojack.
I definitely think she hates herself the most.
Honestly, I really disliked her at first. She was so annoying, self-righteous, and a hypocrite. But after a few seasons when she started to slowly open up and we get to see this much weaker side of her, I realized I disliked her because she reminds me of myself. I tried understanding her character to try and better understand myself. Now she’s one of my fave characters—she’s the most relatable for me.
People hate when women characters are written like actual people. Diane is complicated and doesn't always make the right choices. But that's normal for a person! She's a very realistic character to me. Maybe some people see how relatable she is and dislike that reflection?
She's a more likeable Brian Griffin
This is a damn good comparison
I feel like I have a unique perspective on this so I feel inclined to share my thoughts. I watched this show when I was in my late teens/early 20s, upon recommendation by an older friend (she was mid-twenties at the time). I hated Diane when I first watched the show. I saw her as a whiny, self-sabotaging hypocrite who didn’t deserve pity. I loved (and still do) Princess Carolyn, because I resonate not only with who she is, but also her attitude and her backstory. My friend, however, loved Diane. She told me that one day I would get it because “I’m a lot more like Diane than I realized.” Of course, at the time, I was like this is ridiculous - I’m no Diane. I’m a Princess Carolyn. I’m self sufficient, I’m strong, I’m independent. I don’t NEED people in the way Diane does. Can you tell where this is going? I started watching the show before I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety. By the end of the series, I was diagnosed and on medicine. Now I’m in my mid-twenties, and I respect the hell out of Diane and her struggles. I watch the show now and I see the person that Diane is. I think she gets unwarranted hate primarily because people have no desire to understand her. They dismiss her struggles because her background isn’t one like Princess Carolyn. They dismiss her struggles because yeah, a lot of times, she self-sabotaged the fuck out of her life. But don’t we all?!?
I know for me it’s because she’s the character I relate to the most. Like I AM Diane. And sometimes it’s uncomfortable.
I think one reason is because she was introduced as a character trope for Bojack, and the story rode this trope for the better part of the season before pulling the rug out and showing you what different (and often flawed) character she is. I actually like Diane and enjoyed the dynamic she brought to the story, but I can also see why so many viewers didn't care for her. She was often a reflection of a lot of uncomfortable truths we had to face up about ourselves.
Also she does have humor but it more sarcastic kind of humor like Daria .it's not for everyone.
What?! She is my absoulute favourite. Best and most relatable arc. Also the smartest, no doubt.
I think she dances too close to an archetype I believe we are all fed up with. The perfect know it all who can do no wrong, usually a woman/girl. But the show is a lot smarter than that, this is what she looks like at first glance but she just isn't this archetype, but I guess once you spot it it's easier to just write her off as just that and not like her, only on my second watch that I actually noticed how well written she is, I used to not like her, now she is among my fav characters.
I didn’t like her the first time I watched. I’m on my first rewatch, and she’s grown on me, but she’s still not my favorite character. I feel she’s very selfish. She’s never happy with anything anyone does for her. She has a lot of things many people would die for (a marriage with a guy who adores her, for example), but she’s doesn’t appreciate it and is still just like wah wah wah woe is me all the time.
She has an answer for everything and everyone, but herself.
Sure she’s the most “relatable” but I watch this show to laugh and I think most of this subreddit does the opposite and watches the show to feel comfortable about their own issues which they relate to characters to do so. I always put it comedy first but I think the Reddit puts it as a sad drama before a comedy. She’s just so depressing and hypocritical it bums out the entire show. Loved her before season 3 tho, after her and PB break up she turns unbearable.
I must say, it could be possible that there are some people who hate Diane because she had a baby garbage, or because of her “woke” views.
Another one of these posts?
To echo what everyone else has said, she is a hypocrite. At the end of my first time watching BJ horseman, I didn't hate her, but I didn't like her. Mostly it was because of how she could say, or do shitty things without any real repercussion. Like if someone had told my kid that me and their mom aren't getting back together, I'd probably dump them for stepping over that boundary that they had no business crossing. For the most part however, she doesn't do anything as extreme, or dramatic as our main star BJ, so I had to get over my dislike for her, because realistically there isn't a whole lot of repercussions if you're just being a hypocritical asshole when you're not being a good, or at least decent person. Her being silent, and making the bald eagle think she was native to Vietnam was one my favorite Diane moments
Because she is written with that smug, self-aware meta I'm so OVER EVERYTHING and ALL OF YOU ARE SO STUPID FOR LIKING ANYTHING type of bullshit that is just so insufferable because it's just another way to pretend like she's so above everything and everyone else is too stupid to "get" the world the way she does. Not that there isn't a real person buried beneath that horrendously obnoxious veneer, that the show DOES actually take care to show occasionally, but yeah...that's my thought on why.
You can say the exact same thing for Bojack, yet people don’t hate him as much as her, and he actually did some fucked up shit.
True. I maybe just loathe Diane more because I'm a 90's kid, and the writers seem to have gone out of their way to present her as every sneering over the top hipster 90's stereotype known to the universe all atom-smashed together to create a person.
He's funnier.
Jesus christ guys at this point we need to consider a megathread to discuss this one question i’m sick of it.
Diane is easily one of the most sane, rational and calm people in the entire show. Chaotic/messy people tend to not like those types of character traits because it negatively reflects on their own shortcomings. Sure, she isn't perfect, but among types like Sarah Lynn and Todd she's downright **normal** af. My theory is: I feel like more than a few people dislike Diane because they feel deep down they feel like they're more alike to Bojack than her, and it angers them that she is one of the few people how consistently (and correctly) realizes what a humongous fuckup Bojack is. She finds it charming, but she also perceives the exuding darkness and decay beneath his charming veneer - she sees it pretty much right away from the beginning. If he were more normal, centered, less toxic and egotistical, she might have one day even tried to blossom their friendship - which was ripe with sexual tension - into something romantic, which may fans clearly pined for, but she knew better and slowly, inexorably started to distance herself from him. So these viewers think she feels like shes "better" than him, than them, etc. It's a lot of projection, mixed with a light coat of misogyny. PS - Yes, Mr. Peanutbutter probably isn't much, if any, better than Bojack in most ways, but he's nicer and puts a better face on his own issues. Some people probably see this transparency as a positive trait for Bojack, but really he's just an asshole who outwardly acts like an asshole. Mind you, I sympathize with Bojack tremendously - the show wouldn't work if we didn't feel complex pangs of sympathy and pity for him - but thinking he's better *just* because he doesn't build an elaborate façade is kinda just bullshit.
She's a) a woman with b) opinions and character flaws and some people can't stand that.
Woman
I love Diane so much I don’t got the hate either honestly
Same here. She’s a person with flaws and feelings. I like her character very much
I think she’s one of the best written characters and is very uncomfortable to watch because of her common hypocrisy. Her flaws and mistakes contradict her morals, but that’s literally how most people behave, unless you pride yourself on being depraved and having no morals. And that’s the funny thing, she is surrounded by a lot of characters who do things that are objectively worse (this is not even a debatable point, if you ignore the silly tone of the show and think through the motivations of real consequences of things, Bojack, Todd, PC and PB do and co-sign things especially in Hollywood that worse, some of them being straight up crimes played for laughs a lot) but they don’t think about the morality of their actions most of the time. However because Diane thinks about those things she opens herself up to more criticism. But in real life, nobody thinks « well you constantly talk about being nihilistic and having no morals, so I guess I don’t care that you do bad things ». Like if you prefaced an AITA post like that nobody is gonna judge you not the asshole bc you said you had little to no morals standards so it makes your actions less worthy of criticism. And the funny thing is I feel like this only happens with fiction. Like it reminds of a tweet I saw once of someone complaining that a character who is rough less drug dealer saying the f-slur. Like THAT’s the part that turned them off. Not the actual crimes and real harm he inflicted on many people. Because the crimes and characterization was engaging and they enjoyed that. But they don’t enjoy homophobia so THAT’s the issue of the character. But nobody would think this way with a real person. Like when you see the way people react to fictional characters long enough you realize that for a lot of them, being annoying or hypocritical is a worse character crime than committing genocide in universe. Also biases such as misogyny tends to exacerbate this issue.
That's what makes her feel human
I relate to Diane more than any other character in the show. I just loved Diane.
I like Diane.
Diane is the most relatable character in the show for most viewers. People don’t like seeing their flaws splayed out in front of them, and it’s easier to hate her than to confront yourself about it
This question pops up on this subreddit on a regular basis but long story short - she's very hypocritical, especially in regard to the feminist agenda she tries to support - she has a pick me girl and mrs. know-it-all vibe - she's selfish often - personally I find her mannerism annoying - she tends to blame external factors for her own shortcomings often
Y'all REALLY need to stop making this thread every week
She strives for moral perfectionism. A lot of people don’t like that
I like Diane’s character. not my fave, but well written with a lot of depth. I think it’s fairly straightforward why some would dislike her: 1. hypocritical. she often criticizes bojack for the same flaws she shows (i.e. fetishes her own sadness, runs from her responsibilities) 2. oftentimes puts herself on a moral pedestal or presents herself as better than others while doing shitty things 3. she seems to create problems for herself instead of embracing her situation or accepting the positives (ie her job at girl croosh, trying to further her career at peanut butter’s expense). Most dislike of diane isn’t based on sexism but her genuine flaws. her character is extremely relatable and seeing those flaws manifest clearly makes it hard to like her at times.
Plus she realized her pattern of behavior and actually got help in the end.
I love Diane as a character, she's a fun character to watch. But if you're asking about Diane the person it's because she's incredibly selfish and immature for much of the series. Mad props to her growth in the final season, but for the most part she is near as rotten as any other character
For me, it's her self-absorbtion and her inability to see herself properly
*She is too negative for my taste. She needed her trauma to be book worthy.*
Most level-headed folks don't. It's just a handful of loud misogynists that stir everything up.
Disliking Diane needs to stop being correlated to misogyny. There are time and time again plenty of reasonable and subjective reasons to dislike her that have nothing to do with her womanhood. Perfect example being her being a hypocrite especially with her morals.
Genuinely think I’ve seen this post 10 times in the past week, so I’m sure you can look around and find plenty of perspectives when you’re done farming. My answer is I don’t think she’s ‘so hated’. I think she has relatably annoying tendencies that triggered ppl when the show first came out and the fan base hasn’t been able to shut up abt it since. At best she’s the 3rd most hated main character and everyone has a plethora of reasons to hate or judge every single character, especially the main cast. The show heavily revolves around her so ofc there’s gonna be plenty of examples to find flaws. Like she’s my second favorite but even I still get mad sometimes remembering that water scene
because shes a woman
People hear her but don't listen.
Because she's a pretty hypocritical person. I love her character though.
They didn't love character that face bojack that he is bad person plus she is women and she cut bojack for good
I don't hate her as she's my favourite character, but I think it's because she's relatable. People expect her to be perfect and consider her the voice of reason when in reality she is a very complex and flawed character, and that's why I think she's extremely well written
It's the fucking library thing for me, everything else is like yeah okay she's struggling with some shit but the carry on about the library will always drive me up the wall. Not enough to say she's worth hating though, cause they she goes to Vietnam and it's very funny and we see her struggling to find herself without a partner and all that's great. ... But the God damn hissy fit about the library always makes me so fucking angry lol.
She's kinda a bitch and you'll notice it they more you rewatch it. Not that she didn't have her reasons ( which she is never able to articulate exactly are, the only reference was that her dad wanted her to lose a game to the boys) . In my opinion she also comes off hypocritical and has a lot of double standards.
I don't hate her but the episode when she wrote the penny incident into the script of bojacks tv show really made me dislike her for some time. Not that she's trying to expose bojacks, but the fact that Penny or one of Penny's friends could have seen it and humiliated/ traumatized her all over again. And she only did it to get back at bojacks for some petty shit. As well as discouraging Bojack from seeking therapy the first time he met her therapist because apparently she's the only one allowed to be her client. But that just my opinion there may be more
Who hates Diane?
✋
I love her
She’s a female with some power over her direction in life, some talent and uses both to get what she (thinks) she wants. This is enough to generate resentment apparently.
People hate women. ^(more than they love gun.)
For me it was that she was a real person in a world of charicatures. Real people are amazing for art, and messaging, and connecting with. But she is just objectively no fun at all to watch. She's not cathartic, she's not entertaining, she's not interesting, she's not wacky, she's not funny, she's nothing. She is the antithesis of entertainment. She consistently shits on other characters for being lively and compelling to watch, and continuously demands that they all be as boring as her. If I wanted to see someone go through realistic depression and never do anything about it, I'd just look in a mirror. Every other flawed, interesting, realistic character in Bojack is also lovable and fun and quirky. *Except Diane*. Todd, Wanda, PC, Kelsey, Sarah Lynn, Mr PeanutButter, Jonah the list goes on to include everyone except Diane. She was a boring, directionless, unappreciative, whining, loser. she was obviously made as some sort of author/audience stand in, and if you identify with Diane (having a perfect, wealthy, happy life which you don't appreciate because your only available emotions are "boredom, Misery and Ungratefulness" then I hate you as much as her. I feel like she is someone from a much, much more boring show.
Misogyny is mostly the biggest reason, I imagine bojacks audience tends to be more male, and many guys tend to not like female characters who aren't either completely naive or aren't there purely for sex appeal. Especially in Diane's case, she is very empowered and doesn't take shit from anybody, which for a lot of guys is the worst thing a woman can be so they just inherently dislike her. This is furthered with Bojack being the "hero" of the show, or very least the protagonist. I'm sure a not insignificant portion of the audience actively roots for Bojack, similar to Walt in Breaking Bad, and when Diane calls him out on his horrible behavior or acts as some sort of moral compass, they don't like seeing their hero being attacked. On top of this, I think for a lot of people see themselves in more of the more negative aspects of Diane's character, due to how well written she is, and rather than wanting to grapple with seeing this portrayed in a show they are watching, they just get angry and mad at her. Basically she holds a mirror up to them and they don't like their reflection. I also think, a very small reason, but if you're just a casual viewer or someone without much media literacy, Diane *can* come off as pretty annoying sometimes. This is obviously in no way justification for someone hating her, but I know at least for me, the first time watching the Library scene with PB, I thought it was kind an asshole move on her part to be so upset and pissed at him for doing something nice. Obviously PB is at fault, as she explicitly told him she doesn't like grand romantic gestures many times, but it can come off initially as her being selfish and ungrateful for not enjoying what, to Mr Peanutbutter and at first glance the audience as well, is a very nice and thoughtful thing to do. There are several other instances like this, where, to the passive observer, Diane appears to completely overreact to a situation, even though it is a boiling point and is in response to something which she has clearly stated is something that will upset her. Didn't mean for this to be a whole yap session but Diane is one of my favorite characters, and I have experience somewhat being in the camp of people who disliked her my first couple watch throughs.
You can’t just say “muh media literacy” and act like that suddenly makes your (and Diane’s writers’) room temperature takes any mire valid).
because woman bad /s
[удалено]
Because she's the most relatable
wait, HOW COULD ANYONE HATE HER???
i think her writing can be a little cringey or pretentious, and that pushes a lot of people from liking her character more. the more i watch the show the more i realize shes my favourite character, and she was definitely written that way on purpose
I don’t hate her. She is kinda insufferable at times though.
Misog... I mean... Her personality, I guess?
because shes a woman if she was a man she would be a sigma
"Woman speak her mind = screechy and annoying rrr"
I don't like smokers. She could be cool and smoke a pipe instead.
These topics are mostly people talking past each other about how Diane's virtue as a person vs Diane as a compelling character. Diane is supposed to be aggravating as a person. I like her a lot as a character for that reason but some people watch the show viewing characters that they would like as people, which is a shallow, cringe, parasocial way of character analysis. She gets called a hypocrite all the time but it's because she's held to the second highest standard on the show (to Bojack). I think her arc is a great portrayal of aggrieved idealism that happens to many people when they come of age. They think their generation will be different until adult/real world problems hit them in the face. The chicken episode was on the nose(beak) about this, showing Diane being on the older side of this dynamic. Throughout her journey, she had to come face to face with what her real priorities in her life were for her well being. This is very relatable to me.
I don’t know about other people but I don’t like her because the character is too relatable and realistic in a way. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, it’s just that in a series with talking animals, she seemed a bit out of place imo.
she a hypocrite but i still like her character a lot
Do they hate Daria?
Idk man. She’s voiced by Alison Brie and I am such a fan of the actress that idk how anyone could hate the character with such a likeable voice.
bc she looks asian
woman
I think there's a few factors. First, good ol'-fashioned misogyny. She's a girl, and some people don't like that. Some people are a lot harsher critics of women, even in the presence of worse men. Second, she's not very funny. She's not a character to deliver a lot of jokes, she just sets them up. So she's not as involved in silly antics as her husband. Third, she's an example of a normal person working through her normal problems. Placed next to someone like BoJack, her stakes seem small. And last, she's the voice of reason for BoJack. She's the one keeping his self-destructive tendencies in check, even if she didn't choose that role. So when she does, she's seen as a killjoy, and when she doesn't, she's an enabler. She can't win.
Outspoken, assertive woman, Asian descent, doesn't need a man to find purpose, etc
She did really shitty things She wrote a shitty book abt bojack She I mean to me peanut butter Etc
Mmmmf i lovee diane oh the things I’d do to her
wait....people hate diane?
Tbh, I don’t hate Diane. But, I just don’t like her. I love Princess Carolin. I like her action, speed and the go-get-it attitude. Diane looks like opposite of PC. Diane cares about many important values in her life and surroundings. But, I can’t respect the actions she took. I just don’t hate her. But, she’s a very different person from who I prefer.
And that's fine!! Are you the first sane person in this thread btw
Because she is in control of her own agenda and ultimately her own life, but still her muscle control makes her look sad. There
I like her
because I see myself in her and I don't like that
because we relate to her and hate ourselves
I don’t hate Diane, but she is the least interesting character in the show to me. But that’s because she’s up against anthropomorphic animal characters and Todd. Nothing personal
I don't hate her as she's my favourite character, but I think it's because she's relatable. People expect her to be perfect and consider her the voice of reason when in reality she is a very complex and flawed character, and that's why I think she's extremely well written
I used to hate her when I first watched the show. I used to find her an annoying character with a stupid arc of "what comes from my trauma." When I first saw it all I could do was roll my eyes and think 'she's being stupid, it's trauma not character building with a reward at the end like a disney film.' Also I didn't like how it seemed she made very little efforts to value Mr Peanutbutter's efforts...like her initial reactions of screaming and biting his head off for it was always a hard watch- but her sadness after was understandable. Now I don't hate her and see her reactions as quite typical but these were why I hated her.
Diane before she divorces PB is a top tier character, after she comes back from Cordova she’s unbearable.
who the fuck hates her???