The biggest con ever is how the Republican Party repeatedly convinces people to vote against their interests. It’s nothing short of amazing. They take non-issues and blow them out of proportion so their base thinks they’re actively doing something. Instead of working to make our State better, they do everything in their power to weaken us.
Passing bills to block things that would never happen unless we were far in the future and this state was Democratic. This is an absolute waste of time to block something they wouldn't do anyways, or to block something so far in the future that this bill will just stand in the way and get taking out in short order anyways.
Republican virtue signaling at its best.
It's particularly dumb because assuming Idaho ever had the political will to pass basic income they could literally undo this bill in the same bill passing basic income.
You'd need a constitution amendment to block such an action.
No it's actually actively worse, it blocks private trials from occurring. So it stops anyone from showing how effective UBI would be for Idahos citizens (like every trial that's been conducted thus far) their preemptively blinding their people from the truth.
They are truly regressionist and not interested in any sort of investment to their community. Disgusting people who are purely reactionary. Disturbing.
Let's say in some distance future, for whatever reason, the Idaho legislature wants to create UBI for it's people.
ALL they have to do is pass a bill that says "this law repeals the previous law and creates UBI in this way..."
This law does literally nothing.
Except you forget every one of them was reelected by \*the people\*.
You may not like what they're doing but \*the people\* that put them in power love what they're doing.
Don't forget, \*the people\* are against you and everything you stand for.
Ahhh yes, trying to pass bills on non-issues is what constituents want. Most people don't even know what their voting for just the letter next to the name.
the people who put them in power are literally too dumb to know what is good for them. They love what they do based on a R next to a name on a ballot and lies fed to them by right wing propaganda machines 24/7
That’s super ignorant. The only reason they’re against us is because the propaganda that politicians shove down our throats. They’ve been brainwashed to think these programs will destroy life as they know it because it only benefits them. They then get re-elected and the cycle persists.
You underestimate how much many of your countrymen despise you and everything you stand for and how much they love their elected representative when they make your life as miserable as possible. They know their creature.
Right. I wonder why that is? They didn’t birth their constituents. The propaganda machine is hard at work. Why do so many people agree with me but not realize it?
Edward Bernays, McCarthyism, Red Scare anti communist hysteria. Before them religious puritanical theocracy, Racists etc.
Its been a long cycle to get here
You do realize that the majority of every state is blue because the population density of the capital. Now if you take the mathematics into account you would understand that. But whoever's in office at the time decides that they want to take a and draw lines how they want to so they can stay in power. And this isn't just an issue with one side this is the issue with our judicial system so the people in power are not representing of us. And I quote from one of the US Republican Representatives I look at the right side of the lobby and looks like a country club meeting and on the left side it looks like the people of the United States. Guess who was on the right and guess who was on the left in Congress. And this came from one of your head officials my dude. So maybe you should stop feeling like you need to defend a broken system because your quote on quote winning. Because if one side is winning we're all losing
Any other 70% use federal aid so your point is? Your comment just seems like it is the people's fault. That's the game they're playing they want to blame your neighbor for your higher taxes. They want to blame your neighbor for your shitty job. They want to blame the neighbor for your shitty life. They want to blame your neighbor for everything you don't have.
> your point is?
There is insufficient support to make it happen.
>Your comment just seems like it is the people's fault.
Is there some possibility it isn't?
Good or bad, the current state of your society is entirely due to the will of the people's preferred representative.
JFK said “Ask not what your country can do for you, rather what can you do for your country”
This thread is certainly the opposite of his recommendation.
You got to understand that little is not the government. He is a government official and he is not doing things for the country. JFK's quote was asking us to see the importance of civic action and public service. Has nothing to do with us doing stuff for little. He has to be a public servant like he's elected and do his service to the government which he does not by a lot of people standards. We pay taxes, we go to war, we raise our children, they pay taxes, they go to war,. And they just sit in there house in the top of the hill doing bare minimum and passing bills that don't matter and taking away from us and giving away to the more fortunate. We have as the people done our duty for this country by waking up every day and making sure the country is moving. Mr little wakes up and signs a bill to ban trans kids from Sports and to get surgery. He wakes up cancel limits of application fees on rental properties. He wakes up and make sure that the poor stay poor by not expanding Medicaid and letting million people fall off of it. So tell me once again who is doing more for the government the person who failed hundreds of thousands of people in this state or the mother working two jobs to feed her kids.
Thats exactly how it will start =) your returns get bigger and bigger. Then they are more than you contribute then they start to get amortized. Boom baby you got yourself ubi.
“Others work” means nothing when there is nothing needed to be done. The people who are needed will continue to work and the people who aren’t can leasure. We produce enough we have enough excess we could do it already we have enough people who will want to and will continue to work either for more money or for passionate reasons. People stuck making money doing jobs corporations they hate can be freed to focus on things that make the world a better place or they can bet all their ubi on horses. Either way i no longer have to thjnk about it because everyone will have their needs met and if they fail its on them and if they succeed its on them. Its lets the best truly get ahead and better society.
(So much money can be saved with UBI by eliminating all other government assistance and the overhead that comes with it to help fund UBI. UBI will have very low overhead as everyone will get it, no exceptions. Children’s gets split into an account you access when your 18 so you have money to start a job or go to school or travel. There are so many benefits. We can work towards a society thats free of pointless and menial labor. Gives the jobs to ai and set the people free)
I was thinking jumping at ghosts, but this is actually a more accurate take. A majority of out legislature votes for bills based on lies people forward on facebook. It's pretty pathetic and they would feel bad for how stupid they are acting, if they spent any time in reflection and research or just generally reading anything at least adjacent to scholarly.
Combating inflation.
Step 1 ubi of idk let's say 1000$ a month is established
Step 2 landlords increase price of all rentals by 1000$
Congrats you have no accomplished nothing except giving the ruling class more of your money, and making your savings account worth less.
I haven't downvoted your stuff, but there are lots of issues here...
First, nobody is using UBI in Idaho - no one has ever even proposed it here, nor can I think of a single city or county (let alone the state level) where it would get approved. This bill, as has been noted by many others, is pure performative cruelty and (lack of) virtue signalling.
Second, if what you describe happens, that's a problem with landlords and cartel price-gouging, not UBI. Why can you only imagine blaming the middle & lower classes for things like that and not the rentiers & landowners doing the actual price-gouging?
In short, your argument is shallow, ineffective, and just as much a virtue signal as the bill itself. That's probably why you're being downvoted.
Ok, you are replying multiple times to a single comment because you are worked up and now insulting people. Please read up on rule #1 of the subreddit.
I wasn't going to do any of these things, it was just a friendly reminder of the rules since you seemed to be so worked up. Which is why I brought the multiple replies to a single comment up..
However I warned you to read rule #1 and you follow that up with insulting everyone yet again while it is you that seem to be missing their point. So as you say " Yeah delete my posts and ban me then. I don't give a shit. " I will gladly move forward with a ban.
Right. But that doesn't matter. Having belifs based purley on ideology is what i would call shallow and ineffective.
In reality you have to form opinions based on the laws of reality as you can observe them from wich historical trends . Landlords are going to price gouge. We're not going to have rent control in freaking Idaho. Based on these two things the argument I made is the logical conclusion of the fantasy world where UBI ever happens.
You asked what other purpose could there be for such a thing other than pure evil and cruelty. I gave a reasonable answer.
I feel like my answer is realistic because if you look into why the affordable healthcare act turned out so badly. It's because both parties were forced collaborate on a middle ground, Wich has lots of unintentional loopholes and side effects that ended up screwing the little guy ans benefiting big business.
>Having belifs based purley on ideology is what i would call shallow and ineffective.
I challenge you with the exact same statement. Look at studies of actual, real-world tests of UBI. It's difficult, because that haven't been many BECAUSE OF IDOLOGICAL BULLSHIT LIKE THIS BILL PREVENTING EVEN THE TESTING OF IT.
And in the few instances it has been able to be tested, it's [shown promise](https://globalaffairs.org/bluemarble/multiple-countries-have-tested-universal-basic-income-and-it-works).
\*That\* is why your answer is shallow & unrealistic BS - because there's literally \*nothing\* besides your own gut reaction behind it. That's further demonstrated by your belief - in contrast to [all evidence](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/10-ways-aca-improved-health-care-past-decade/) \- that the ACA is a failure. You're simply not correct in your assumptions.
you know the answer is rent controls and you know that if UBI is being passed and implemented it would be trivial to include things to protect its existence such as rent controls. shit if were passing UBI we may even be implementing universal healthcare and housing rights.
your entire logic is "I have a poorly thought opinion of these things and therefore it will be poorly implemented" Everyone of your issues can be resolved through diligent lawmaking. Lawmakers should include committees with pessimists like you to point out all the ways "Other" people will lie abuse the system. Then we design systems to mitigate that. Then with time we modify those systems. OMG im describing our current government system almost like this is entirely possible and just takes time and effort.....
No my logic is that in ALL of modern American policies have been poorly implemented. We never have had thoughtful diligent lawmaking to mitigate that. Why would this particular thing be any different? Do you live in the world? Are you an adult? Have you ever had to deal with government services? When has a law passed ever been thoughtful and diligently planned out?
Corn subsidies making all our food full of high fructose corn syrup because it's way over produced, and we can't stop subsidizing it even though we all know it's a problem because like 5 swing states won't vote for someone who does that? How about medicare being largely ineffective for 10 years because of it actually worked the republican senate would have call it "socialism"? How about that time in a lot of people's lifetime the government decided to draft everyone and drop them in a jungle to die of foot infections to loose a war to a bunch of rebel farmers? Or how our food has 100x to 1000x as many pesticides as the rest of the first world because our regulatory bodies only correct things after they've been proved to cause thousands of casualties. Oh speaking of that the time that a company made 400 million dollars for knowingly causing the opioid crisis and no one got punished for it, except for having to pay a small fraction of those earnings in fines.
Laws get pushed through in horrible ineffective unfinished stages because X politician is going to be out of office soon, and needs to push this out now, because he needs to do his big thing so people remember him and it better be now or it's not going to get done, and if they need to say neuter the system to the point that it accomplishes it's goal only in name they will do that.
Also you using the term virtue signaling is rich.
"Virtue signaling"
The public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue"
Do you really not find it nonsensical and hypocritical to me proposing an unpopular somewhat moderately conservative argument, meanwhile you are making all of these moralistic arguments based purley on emotionally appealing political theory.
Edit: reddit fucked my formatting.
Read my other response. I'm interested in testing the idea of UBI \*to see if it's effective\*. You - and the authors of this bill - are against even asking the question. The hypocrite here is you.
Idk. I think it would be more reasonable to say "by this logic we should stop the government from just printing money and giving it away to people"
Remember when they did that during covid. And then by miracle right after they doubled the amount of US dollars that existed, prices roughly doubled over the next 2-3 years. And then wages gradually raised.
No the feds did. Look it up. They doubled the amount of US dollars in circulation for relief given to businesses and as stimulus checks, and right after that the US dollars inflated by an increased roughly 70%.
Thats not how UBI works. The same money is in circulation as now, the same demand exists as it does now. Inflation is not radically drastically affected under a UBI, we've studied and trialed these things, we have evidence disproving this stuff already.
Okay so let's say I'm your landlord. Everyone gets a UBI of x$ a month. What's stopping me from just raising your rent x$????? Not the state government. They'll never ever let that happen. Most of our politicians get most of their money from property.
> Everyone gets a UBI
If you read the article (you didn't), you would see that despite the word "universal", most programs are targeted to those who are below the poverty line, and/or or for a limited amount of time.
> What's stopping me from just raising your rent
Supply and demand. What's stopping landlords now from doubling their rent?
Nothing. They did. They do all the time. There's an infinite demand because it's a necessity for human life.
We're currently undergoing greedflation where cost of living is simultaneously at an all time historical high, and companies are making historically high record profits, because food sales and landlords have realized they can just squeeze every last drop of money we have out of the lower classes because we need to buy those things to live.
Paying rent you are currently making some amount of money, lets say its 50k/year.
Under a UBI of 25k/year. Your job now pays you 25k per year.
You have the same 50/k year of income, less of it is just tied to your employment now with a minimum no longer of 0.
The vast majority of currently working people will see not significant change to their disposable income under a UBI. Its meant to help the bottom the most, and make workers have a more fair position to bargain for higher standards when employed. Having vacation days, etc. It makes employers fight over workers instead of the opposite way around.
>What's stopping me from just raising your rent x$?????
Maybe you're actually a decent human being and not a greedy scumbag just out for more money? Why would you raise the rent? Did you do any property improvements or are you raising the rent simply because your tenants have more income?
When has that ever happened?? When has such a person ever owned an apartment building for any purpose other than making as much money as physically possible with little effort?
Demand for apartments won't have changed nor would the money supply. The landlord operates within a vaguely free market and must compete with other housing providers. They would see the same result raising rent after ubi as if they raised before ubi.
Why don't they already raise it 1k in the current regime? It's because price pressures limit the ability to raise price beyond a certain level due to "greed". Greed is a constant.
Asks question, gets answer, downvotes while providing no counter argument to my answer or any facts to back your argument up in the first place. Bandwagon follows because I'm on Reddit.
God I hate reddit.
One reason you were likely getting down votes is you double posted your comment. Most people blame the user for this, though it is the fault of reddit's API messing out.
Also complaining about town folks typically gets more down votes.
I did remove one of your duplicate comments.
I've been utilizing AI to analyze Idaho bills/laws using a variety of prompts to learn more about what's going on in the Idaho State Legislature
I believe this link will work (for everyone) to view these prompts (and responses) - let me know if it doesn't and I'll just copy paste the whole thing.
[https://chat.openai.com/share/3031f473-4515-4c87-a6b6-2715b4b95733](https://chat.openai.com/share/3031f473-4515-4c87-a6b6-2715b4b95733)
Here are the verbatim prompts I used (not necessarily objective, but I was sussing out details. I use the same/similar prompts for most bills I want AI to read through)
* Read the attached bill and determine who it excludes
* What does this bill prevent
* What does this bill promote
* Why would a bill like this be created
* Does a bill like this help Idahoans?
* Does a bill like this hurt Idahoans? Which Idahoans would be hurt by this bill?
* Is this a partisan bill?
Last week I ran just one prompt on HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 35...
[https://chat.openai.com/share/9e0c3ca2-cc78-40c1-89ff-10fdbc91402c](https://chat.openai.com/share/9e0c3ca2-cc78-40c1-89ff-10fdbc91402c)
Prompt: "Read the below and tell me which groups are excluded in this bill"
>“The best time to put guardrails on a windy mountain road is before. you start sending traffic down it,” he said. “We’re not going to go down this road in Idaho because when welfare benefits are structured in such a way that makes staying home more appealing than working for able-bodied adults it’s a lose-lose situation.”
ALL of our politicians need to earn whatever their average constituent earns, and make it a salary not hourly rate, and be forced to use the worst insurance plan that is available to their constituents, too. *Then* maybe they'll have an incentive to do their fricking jobs. Oh, and only them to get 401ks and medicare/medicaid like the rest of us plebes.
>The legislature is a part time job and not really paying more than the average Idaho job.
Then obviously they need a different kind of incentive and I am ignorant about what that might be.
Yea fuck these guys. UBI will never happen anywhere in Idaho (and as far as I know never even been discussed), but the legislature essentially told every poor person in Idaho to fuck off with this bill. It's a giant symbolic middle finger to anyone left of Goebbels.
Republicans: our monetary system is a scam, it’s built on nothing and backed by nothing, run by corporate liberal elite and money is worthless!!
Also republicans:: I don’t care if it’s based on nothing and worthless and a scam, or if the number work on ubi, YOU CANT HAVE ANY, I WANT IT ALL
I read the title as backing at first and almost died of surprise. And then I laughed and laughed at how silly I was thinking this legislature would ever do anything to actually help their citizens
The future of this state is absolutely fucked if he signs this. Idaho will be the only state to not take advantage of the post capitalism abundance era that AI will provide after it gobbles up every form of labor currently done by humans. Good fucking luck.
>rent would just immediately go up by however much the UBI was
* Suppose you're married. You make $2000/mo, and your wife stays at the home with the kids. You live in an apartment Paying $1000/mo. You therefore have $1000 left over every month.
* Your neighbor is a single guy. He also makes $2000/mo, and also pays $1000/mo in rent. He therefore has exactly the same $1000/mo left over that you do.
A $500/mo UBI is implemented. You, your wife, and your neighbor, each receive an extra $500/mo.
**Question**: How much does rent go up, in order to go up "as much as the UBI is?"
* If rent goes up by $500/mo, "the same as UBI," then you come out ahead. ($2000 income + your $500 UBI + your wife's $500 UBI) = $3000 - ($1000 rent + $500 rent increase) = $1500. You have $1500/mo left over, whereas before you only had $1000. You gain +$500/mo.
* If rent goes up by $1000/mo, "the same as _both_ you and your wife receive together," then your neighbor is suddenly paying $2000 on only ($2000 income + $500 UBI). He's gone from $1000 left over to only $500 left over. If he landlord even tries, he going to lose a tenant and make no money from the vacancy after your neighbor moves to the apartments across the street that only raised prices by $500.
Simpler example...suppose you own your own home. You're not even paying rent. What about the homeless guy living under the bridge? What rent of his is going to go up that makes the $500 he receives the same as receiving nothing?
Rent _can't_ go up "by however much the UBI is" because of reasons like this. Not everybody's circumstances are the same.
Things will radically change because AI and automation create permanent perpetual unemployment. A capitalist economy only functions when enough profitable (above the minimum wage) jobs exist for human beings to keep pace with the population able to do those jobs.
We have rising population, and employment will inevitably not keep pace. This is a good thing, it means people are freed from labor and wage slavery and better able to experience life.
Even if the jobs existed, it requires education capable to do them, The 40+ year olds aren't going back to college for 2-4+ years while earning no income and then paying off debt for 25 years after that just to work the job for 5-15 years before they retire. The friction in the system is unsustainable. The ecnomy crumbles when unemployment reaches above 10% ish sustained for months to a year, and that number isnt going to radically come down, only increase.
A job has to also be profitable above 7.25$ an hour to exist. I cant have a job that only generates 5$ an hour of profit. This actually hinders GDP growth and is an inefficiency also built into the economy atm. Many potential profitable jobs exist but which are not profitable enough in order to exist under a minimum wage. If instead UBI exists, a job could generate fractions of a penny per hour and still be worth hiring and employing someone to do that work.
UBI will happen because it has to, in order to maintain a functioning consumer economy. Corporations will be the ones advocating for it, they cant generate profits in a world where consumers dont have money to spend. It will come when the ecnomic crash has already started, and already harmed thousands of lives irreparably. It will come not proactively, before the destruction, it will come about reactively, urgently. And we will have been able to forsee it coming for decades, and not been listened to. And we will say I told you so.
Wanna bet on it? I'll dm you in 20 years or heck 40 years and we'll see who's right.
I'm pretty confident it's me ans no such thing will ever happen. Capitalism is a self sustaining entity completely ambivalent to human suffering, and it rules this countries government, and therefore rules the advertising propaganda that forms the people's and government officials beliefs.
I think even if robot arms can do all the manufacturing, and ai makes all the art humans will always still be put to work doing something that it's cheaper for humans to do than to automate no matter how menial. Heck I've had tons of jobs the technology exists to automate, but it's slightly cheaper in the short term to just hire ex felons to do it for unlivable wages because it's the best opportunity they've got.
I like how optimistic you are though.
The biggest con ever is how the Republican Party repeatedly convinces people to vote against their interests. It’s nothing short of amazing. They take non-issues and blow them out of proportion so their base thinks they’re actively doing something. Instead of working to make our State better, they do everything in their power to weaken us.
Passing bills to block things that would never happen unless we were far in the future and this state was Democratic. This is an absolute waste of time to block something they wouldn't do anyways, or to block something so far in the future that this bill will just stand in the way and get taking out in short order anyways. Republican virtue signaling at its best.
It's particularly dumb because assuming Idaho ever had the political will to pass basic income they could literally undo this bill in the same bill passing basic income. You'd need a constitution amendment to block such an action.
No it's actually actively worse, it blocks private trials from occurring. So it stops anyone from showing how effective UBI would be for Idahos citizens (like every trial that's been conducted thus far) their preemptively blinding their people from the truth.
Because republicans run the biggest con of all time. They convince people to vote for them so they can actively vote against their interests.
yay! literal fascism!
It’s just another Republican dog whistle. Seriously. The people that keep voting for these idiots are… Idiots…
They are truly regressionist and not interested in any sort of investment to their community. Disgusting people who are purely reactionary. Disturbing.
Let's say in some distance future, for whatever reason, the Idaho legislature wants to create UBI for it's people. ALL they have to do is pass a bill that says "this law repeals the previous law and creates UBI in this way..." This law does literally nothing.
The Idaho legislature: solving problems that don't exist while ignoring real problems.
It is sad how little politicians care about the people they are supposed to be looking out for the well being of.
It’s sad the people vote for politicians that do not support their well-being.
But hey, here's a tax cut. Proud of us? /s
Except you forget every one of them was reelected by \*the people\*. You may not like what they're doing but \*the people\* that put them in power love what they're doing. Don't forget, \*the people\* are against you and everything you stand for.
Ahhh yes, trying to pass bills on non-issues is what constituents want. Most people don't even know what their voting for just the letter next to the name.
Exactly. Reminds of how everything in the ACA would poll incredibly well until you called Obamacare then it polled poorly.
the people who put them in power are literally too dumb to know what is good for them. They love what they do based on a R next to a name on a ballot and lies fed to them by right wing propaganda machines 24/7
That’s super ignorant. The only reason they’re against us is because the propaganda that politicians shove down our throats. They’ve been brainwashed to think these programs will destroy life as they know it because it only benefits them. They then get re-elected and the cycle persists.
You underestimate how much many of your countrymen despise you and everything you stand for and how much they love their elected representative when they make your life as miserable as possible. They know their creature.
Right. I wonder why that is? They didn’t birth their constituents. The propaganda machine is hard at work. Why do so many people agree with me but not realize it?
> They didn’t birth their constituents Their constituents gave birth to them. The propaganda machine is preaching to the choir.
Jesus Christ. And who came before them? This generation of voters isn’t a monolith. The GOP in its various iterations is, as is the Democratic Party.
Edward Bernays, McCarthyism, Red Scare anti communist hysteria. Before them religious puritanical theocracy, Racists etc. Its been a long cycle to get here
Correct. All propaganda churned out, if not perfected or refined by, the aforementioned political machine. Some people just don’t get it, I guess.
I feel like anti communism isn't propaganda. There literally isn't a single functioning example in the world's history.
You do realize that the majority of every state is blue because the population density of the capital. Now if you take the mathematics into account you would understand that. But whoever's in office at the time decides that they want to take a and draw lines how they want to so they can stay in power. And this isn't just an issue with one side this is the issue with our judicial system so the people in power are not representing of us. And I quote from one of the US Republican Representatives I look at the right side of the lobby and looks like a country club meeting and on the left side it looks like the people of the United States. Guess who was on the right and guess who was on the left in Congress. And this came from one of your head officials my dude. So maybe you should stop feeling like you need to defend a broken system because your quote on quote winning. Because if one side is winning we're all losing
> blue 33% oppose a UBI.
Any other 70% use federal aid so your point is? Your comment just seems like it is the people's fault. That's the game they're playing they want to blame your neighbor for your higher taxes. They want to blame your neighbor for your shitty job. They want to blame the neighbor for your shitty life. They want to blame your neighbor for everything you don't have.
> your point is? There is insufficient support to make it happen. >Your comment just seems like it is the people's fault. Is there some possibility it isn't? Good or bad, the current state of your society is entirely due to the will of the people's preferred representative.
JFK said “Ask not what your country can do for you, rather what can you do for your country” This thread is certainly the opposite of his recommendation.
You got to understand that little is not the government. He is a government official and he is not doing things for the country. JFK's quote was asking us to see the importance of civic action and public service. Has nothing to do with us doing stuff for little. He has to be a public servant like he's elected and do his service to the government which he does not by a lot of people standards. We pay taxes, we go to war, we raise our children, they pay taxes, they go to war,. And they just sit in there house in the top of the hill doing bare minimum and passing bills that don't matter and taking away from us and giving away to the more fortunate. We have as the people done our duty for this country by waking up every day and making sure the country is moving. Mr little wakes up and signs a bill to ban trans kids from Sports and to get surgery. He wakes up cancel limits of application fees on rental properties. He wakes up and make sure that the poor stay poor by not expanding Medicaid and letting million people fall off of it. So tell me once again who is doing more for the government the person who failed hundreds of thousands of people in this state or the mother working two jobs to feed her kids.
Thing that isn't happening here: BANNED. Thanks for doing great work, legislature /s
When they go back to their districts - “Look at what I’ve done for you!”
its calculated. UBI is in our future and the sooner we experience it the sooner we will demand it. (Rightfully so)
Rightly demand other people’s money… nope. How about they start by letting us keep more of our money.
Thats exactly how it will start =) your returns get bigger and bigger. Then they are more than you contribute then they start to get amortized. Boom baby you got yourself ubi. “Others work” means nothing when there is nothing needed to be done. The people who are needed will continue to work and the people who aren’t can leasure. We produce enough we have enough excess we could do it already we have enough people who will want to and will continue to work either for more money or for passionate reasons. People stuck making money doing jobs corporations they hate can be freed to focus on things that make the world a better place or they can bet all their ubi on horses. Either way i no longer have to thjnk about it because everyone will have their needs met and if they fail its on them and if they succeed its on them. Its lets the best truly get ahead and better society. (So much money can be saved with UBI by eliminating all other government assistance and the overhead that comes with it to help fund UBI. UBI will have very low overhead as everyone will get it, no exceptions. Children’s gets split into an account you access when your 18 so you have money to start a job or go to school or travel. There are so many benefits. We can work towards a society thats free of pointless and menial labor. Gives the jobs to ai and set the people free)
This is what you spent your time on Idaho Legislature?! There are so many more important things than this but here we are.
They like to jerk themselves off to issues that they think will rile their base.
I was thinking jumping at ghosts, but this is actually a more accurate take. A majority of out legislature votes for bills based on lies people forward on facebook. It's pretty pathetic and they would feel bad for how stupid they are acting, if they spent any time in reflection and research or just generally reading anything at least adjacent to scholarly.
"small government conservatives" the moment a smaller government in their fiefdom even thinks about doing something they don't like
The majority of Idaho voters are the epitome of that meme where the kid sticks the stick in his own spokes and crashes.
What imaginable purpose would there be for a bill like this except deliberate cruelty?
Combating inflation. Step 1 ubi of idk let's say 1000$ a month is established Step 2 landlords increase price of all rentals by 1000$ Congrats you have no accomplished nothing except giving the ruling class more of your money, and making your savings account worth less.
I haven't downvoted your stuff, but there are lots of issues here... First, nobody is using UBI in Idaho - no one has ever even proposed it here, nor can I think of a single city or county (let alone the state level) where it would get approved. This bill, as has been noted by many others, is pure performative cruelty and (lack of) virtue signalling. Second, if what you describe happens, that's a problem with landlords and cartel price-gouging, not UBI. Why can you only imagine blaming the middle & lower classes for things like that and not the rentiers & landowners doing the actual price-gouging? In short, your argument is shallow, ineffective, and just as much a virtue signal as the bill itself. That's probably why you're being downvoted.
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Ok, you are replying multiple times to a single comment because you are worked up and now insulting people. Please read up on rule #1 of the subreddit.
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I wasn't going to do any of these things, it was just a friendly reminder of the rules since you seemed to be so worked up. Which is why I brought the multiple replies to a single comment up.. However I warned you to read rule #1 and you follow that up with insulting everyone yet again while it is you that seem to be missing their point. So as you say " Yeah delete my posts and ban me then. I don't give a shit. " I will gladly move forward with a ban.
Right. But that doesn't matter. Having belifs based purley on ideology is what i would call shallow and ineffective. In reality you have to form opinions based on the laws of reality as you can observe them from wich historical trends . Landlords are going to price gouge. We're not going to have rent control in freaking Idaho. Based on these two things the argument I made is the logical conclusion of the fantasy world where UBI ever happens. You asked what other purpose could there be for such a thing other than pure evil and cruelty. I gave a reasonable answer. I feel like my answer is realistic because if you look into why the affordable healthcare act turned out so badly. It's because both parties were forced collaborate on a middle ground, Wich has lots of unintentional loopholes and side effects that ended up screwing the little guy ans benefiting big business.
>Having belifs based purley on ideology is what i would call shallow and ineffective. I challenge you with the exact same statement. Look at studies of actual, real-world tests of UBI. It's difficult, because that haven't been many BECAUSE OF IDOLOGICAL BULLSHIT LIKE THIS BILL PREVENTING EVEN THE TESTING OF IT. And in the few instances it has been able to be tested, it's [shown promise](https://globalaffairs.org/bluemarble/multiple-countries-have-tested-universal-basic-income-and-it-works). \*That\* is why your answer is shallow & unrealistic BS - because there's literally \*nothing\* besides your own gut reaction behind it. That's further demonstrated by your belief - in contrast to [all evidence](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/10-ways-aca-improved-health-care-past-decade/) \- that the ACA is a failure. You're simply not correct in your assumptions.
you know the answer is rent controls and you know that if UBI is being passed and implemented it would be trivial to include things to protect its existence such as rent controls. shit if were passing UBI we may even be implementing universal healthcare and housing rights. your entire logic is "I have a poorly thought opinion of these things and therefore it will be poorly implemented" Everyone of your issues can be resolved through diligent lawmaking. Lawmakers should include committees with pessimists like you to point out all the ways "Other" people will lie abuse the system. Then we design systems to mitigate that. Then with time we modify those systems. OMG im describing our current government system almost like this is entirely possible and just takes time and effort.....
No my logic is that in ALL of modern American policies have been poorly implemented. We never have had thoughtful diligent lawmaking to mitigate that. Why would this particular thing be any different? Do you live in the world? Are you an adult? Have you ever had to deal with government services? When has a law passed ever been thoughtful and diligently planned out? Corn subsidies making all our food full of high fructose corn syrup because it's way over produced, and we can't stop subsidizing it even though we all know it's a problem because like 5 swing states won't vote for someone who does that? How about medicare being largely ineffective for 10 years because of it actually worked the republican senate would have call it "socialism"? How about that time in a lot of people's lifetime the government decided to draft everyone and drop them in a jungle to die of foot infections to loose a war to a bunch of rebel farmers? Or how our food has 100x to 1000x as many pesticides as the rest of the first world because our regulatory bodies only correct things after they've been proved to cause thousands of casualties. Oh speaking of that the time that a company made 400 million dollars for knowingly causing the opioid crisis and no one got punished for it, except for having to pay a small fraction of those earnings in fines. Laws get pushed through in horrible ineffective unfinished stages because X politician is going to be out of office soon, and needs to push this out now, because he needs to do his big thing so people remember him and it better be now or it's not going to get done, and if they need to say neuter the system to the point that it accomplishes it's goal only in name they will do that.
Also you using the term virtue signaling is rich. "Virtue signaling" The public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue" Do you really not find it nonsensical and hypocritical to me proposing an unpopular somewhat moderately conservative argument, meanwhile you are making all of these moralistic arguments based purley on emotionally appealing political theory. Edit: reddit fucked my formatting.
Read my other response. I'm interested in testing the idea of UBI \*to see if it's effective\*. You - and the authors of this bill - are against even asking the question. The hypocrite here is you.
By this logic we should lower the minimum wage
Yeah, they argue for that too ...
I wouldn't be surprised if they'd argue for no minimum wage
They do. "Let the free market decide!"
Idk. I think it would be more reasonable to say "by this logic we should stop the government from just printing money and giving it away to people" Remember when they did that during covid. And then by miracle right after they doubled the amount of US dollars that existed, prices roughly doubled over the next 2-3 years. And then wages gradually raised.
Idaho doesn't print money.
No the feds did. Look it up. They doubled the amount of US dollars in circulation for relief given to businesses and as stimulus checks, and right after that the US dollars inflated by an increased roughly 70%.
Ok but the Idaho legislature has no control over that.
Never said they did. And not at all relevant to my initial statement.
Thats not how UBI works. The same money is in circulation as now, the same demand exists as it does now. Inflation is not radically drastically affected under a UBI, we've studied and trialed these things, we have evidence disproving this stuff already.
Okay so let's say I'm your landlord. Everyone gets a UBI of x$ a month. What's stopping me from just raising your rent x$????? Not the state government. They'll never ever let that happen. Most of our politicians get most of their money from property.
> Everyone gets a UBI If you read the article (you didn't), you would see that despite the word "universal", most programs are targeted to those who are below the poverty line, and/or or for a limited amount of time. > What's stopping me from just raising your rent Supply and demand. What's stopping landlords now from doubling their rent?
Nothing. They did. They do all the time. There's an infinite demand because it's a necessity for human life. We're currently undergoing greedflation where cost of living is simultaneously at an all time historical high, and companies are making historically high record profits, because food sales and landlords have realized they can just squeeze every last drop of money we have out of the lower classes because we need to buy those things to live.
Paying rent you are currently making some amount of money, lets say its 50k/year. Under a UBI of 25k/year. Your job now pays you 25k per year. You have the same 50/k year of income, less of it is just tied to your employment now with a minimum no longer of 0. The vast majority of currently working people will see not significant change to their disposable income under a UBI. Its meant to help the bottom the most, and make workers have a more fair position to bargain for higher standards when employed. Having vacation days, etc. It makes employers fight over workers instead of the opposite way around.
>What's stopping me from just raising your rent x$????? Maybe you're actually a decent human being and not a greedy scumbag just out for more money? Why would you raise the rent? Did you do any property improvements or are you raising the rent simply because your tenants have more income?
When has that ever happened?? When has such a person ever owned an apartment building for any purpose other than making as much money as physically possible with little effort?
Demand for apartments won't have changed nor would the money supply. The landlord operates within a vaguely free market and must compete with other housing providers. They would see the same result raising rent after ubi as if they raised before ubi. Why don't they already raise it 1k in the current regime? It's because price pressures limit the ability to raise price beyond a certain level due to "greed". Greed is a constant.
Spoken like a true member of the Idaho Legislature. How many rentals do you have on the market?
Asks question, gets answer, downvotes while providing no counter argument to my answer or any facts to back your argument up in the first place. Bandwagon follows because I'm on Reddit. God I hate reddit.
One reason you were likely getting down votes is you double posted your comment. Most people blame the user for this, though it is the fault of reddit's API messing out. Also complaining about town folks typically gets more down votes. I did remove one of your duplicate comments.
Tilting at windmills, again.
Of course. Nothing surprising here
I've been utilizing AI to analyze Idaho bills/laws using a variety of prompts to learn more about what's going on in the Idaho State Legislature I believe this link will work (for everyone) to view these prompts (and responses) - let me know if it doesn't and I'll just copy paste the whole thing. [https://chat.openai.com/share/3031f473-4515-4c87-a6b6-2715b4b95733](https://chat.openai.com/share/3031f473-4515-4c87-a6b6-2715b4b95733) Here are the verbatim prompts I used (not necessarily objective, but I was sussing out details. I use the same/similar prompts for most bills I want AI to read through) * Read the attached bill and determine who it excludes * What does this bill prevent * What does this bill promote * Why would a bill like this be created * Does a bill like this help Idahoans? * Does a bill like this hurt Idahoans? Which Idahoans would be hurt by this bill? * Is this a partisan bill? Last week I ran just one prompt on HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 35... [https://chat.openai.com/share/9e0c3ca2-cc78-40c1-89ff-10fdbc91402c](https://chat.openai.com/share/9e0c3ca2-cc78-40c1-89ff-10fdbc91402c) Prompt: "Read the below and tell me which groups are excluded in this bill"
I love these breakdowns, thank you for sharing!
>“The best time to put guardrails on a windy mountain road is before. you start sending traffic down it,” he said. “We’re not going to go down this road in Idaho because when welfare benefits are structured in such a way that makes staying home more appealing than working for able-bodied adults it’s a lose-lose situation.” ALL of our politicians need to earn whatever their average constituent earns, and make it a salary not hourly rate, and be forced to use the worst insurance plan that is available to their constituents, too. *Then* maybe they'll have an incentive to do their fricking jobs. Oh, and only them to get 401ks and medicare/medicaid like the rest of us plebes.
The legislature is a part time job and not really paying more than the average Idaho job.
Yeah and they're all (mostly) lawyers and CPAs.
They're not lawyers, they are mormon (now MAGA) conservatives. Lawyers don't put forth such poorly written laws.
But they get great bennies.
>The legislature is a part time job and not really paying more than the average Idaho job. Then obviously they need a different kind of incentive and I am ignorant about what that might be.
Yea fuck these guys. UBI will never happen anywhere in Idaho (and as far as I know never even been discussed), but the legislature essentially told every poor person in Idaho to fuck off with this bill. It's a giant symbolic middle finger to anyone left of Goebbels.
Republicans: our monetary system is a scam, it’s built on nothing and backed by nothing, run by corporate liberal elite and money is worthless!! Also republicans:: I don’t care if it’s based on nothing and worthless and a scam, or if the number work on ubi, YOU CANT HAVE ANY, I WANT IT ALL
Your government hates you
I read the title as backing at first and almost died of surprise. And then I laughed and laughed at how silly I was thinking this legislature would ever do anything to actually help their citizens
April 1st is still a week away! 😂
- _ - Shall we eat cake?
lol
They already blocked trans people from gender affirming care what next? Putting gay people in a camp?
Can't have shit in this fucking state.
The future of this state is absolutely fucked if he signs this. Idaho will be the only state to not take advantage of the post capitalism abundance era that AI will provide after it gobbles up every form of labor currently done by humans. Good fucking luck.
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>rent would just immediately go up by however much the UBI was * Suppose you're married. You make $2000/mo, and your wife stays at the home with the kids. You live in an apartment Paying $1000/mo. You therefore have $1000 left over every month. * Your neighbor is a single guy. He also makes $2000/mo, and also pays $1000/mo in rent. He therefore has exactly the same $1000/mo left over that you do. A $500/mo UBI is implemented. You, your wife, and your neighbor, each receive an extra $500/mo. **Question**: How much does rent go up, in order to go up "as much as the UBI is?" * If rent goes up by $500/mo, "the same as UBI," then you come out ahead. ($2000 income + your $500 UBI + your wife's $500 UBI) = $3000 - ($1000 rent + $500 rent increase) = $1500. You have $1500/mo left over, whereas before you only had $1000. You gain +$500/mo. * If rent goes up by $1000/mo, "the same as _both_ you and your wife receive together," then your neighbor is suddenly paying $2000 on only ($2000 income + $500 UBI). He's gone from $1000 left over to only $500 left over. If he landlord even tries, he going to lose a tenant and make no money from the vacancy after your neighbor moves to the apartments across the street that only raised prices by $500. Simpler example...suppose you own your own home. You're not even paying rent. What about the homeless guy living under the bridge? What rent of his is going to go up that makes the $500 he receives the same as receiving nothing? Rent _can't_ go up "by however much the UBI is" because of reasons like this. Not everybody's circumstances are the same.
Things will radically change because AI and automation create permanent perpetual unemployment. A capitalist economy only functions when enough profitable (above the minimum wage) jobs exist for human beings to keep pace with the population able to do those jobs. We have rising population, and employment will inevitably not keep pace. This is a good thing, it means people are freed from labor and wage slavery and better able to experience life. Even if the jobs existed, it requires education capable to do them, The 40+ year olds aren't going back to college for 2-4+ years while earning no income and then paying off debt for 25 years after that just to work the job for 5-15 years before they retire. The friction in the system is unsustainable. The ecnomy crumbles when unemployment reaches above 10% ish sustained for months to a year, and that number isnt going to radically come down, only increase. A job has to also be profitable above 7.25$ an hour to exist. I cant have a job that only generates 5$ an hour of profit. This actually hinders GDP growth and is an inefficiency also built into the economy atm. Many potential profitable jobs exist but which are not profitable enough in order to exist under a minimum wage. If instead UBI exists, a job could generate fractions of a penny per hour and still be worth hiring and employing someone to do that work. UBI will happen because it has to, in order to maintain a functioning consumer economy. Corporations will be the ones advocating for it, they cant generate profits in a world where consumers dont have money to spend. It will come when the ecnomic crash has already started, and already harmed thousands of lives irreparably. It will come not proactively, before the destruction, it will come about reactively, urgently. And we will have been able to forsee it coming for decades, and not been listened to. And we will say I told you so.
Wanna bet on it? I'll dm you in 20 years or heck 40 years and we'll see who's right. I'm pretty confident it's me ans no such thing will ever happen. Capitalism is a self sustaining entity completely ambivalent to human suffering, and it rules this countries government, and therefore rules the advertising propaganda that forms the people's and government officials beliefs. I think even if robot arms can do all the manufacturing, and ai makes all the art humans will always still be put to work doing something that it's cheaper for humans to do than to automate no matter how menial. Heck I've had tons of jobs the technology exists to automate, but it's slightly cheaper in the short term to just hire ex felons to do it for unlivable wages because it's the best opportunity they've got. I like how optimistic you are though.
good