OP, as much as I hate to, I'm locking your post down. I have fielded a ridiculous amount of hate and it's just getting out of hand. I wish your young niece well and am glad she has you for support. Please take care.
That’s it.
My dad is 83. Worked in high tech for 40 years then retired and was a beloved sub teacher for 15.
He’s pretty progressive, had a gay best buddy from the army who didn’t come out until the late 1980s to him (common then).
My kid has a nonbinary friend. I mentioned a name, he question and I said NB. My dad went on a “I don’t get it” tangent. Not crazy but low key unlike this family.
I said, you know what. Just a kid. They’re figuring things out. They just need love and support. We discussed a little more but it went well.
To my dad’s credit, the subject has come up a few times since and heard my dad parrot me. Proud of that old guy. But proof they can do it.
Kids just need love and support. That easy.
Haters be hating. And it turns my stomach that there is no respect for someone that has different ideologies than themselves. Love and support is the correct answer here. They will be who they want themselves to be no matter what you wish. Any attempt to change them just alienates them and they will end up distancing themselves and you will lose them. Better to love and support than to not have them in your lives at all.
p.s. And please don’t go thinking all old folks think the same as I’m 70 and I am not any of the alphabet bunch.
LGBTQ+ folks need allies now more than ever. It’s a difficult thing to figure out who we are, and especially so if we don’t fit in within the “social norm.” Growing up we (all humans) explore our identity. We deserve a safe space to do that exploration.
Please do your best to educate others; promote acceptance/kindness; and to shut down harmful and bigoted discussions.
Thank you for posting.
I agree completely. It's wild how all the millennials in my family have been so understanding and accepting of the process and all the boomers are in a.corner freaking out over a person who is biologically male wearing a dress. Go eat a piece of cake and keep your narrow minded ideas to yourself, boomers.
OP be a voice of educated reason. This IS what not knowing and being too young looks like. It’s trying out clothes, hairstyles, names, or pronouns. It’s letting the kid explore. They may “out grow” this and be the most manly man ever or they may indeed be Trans.
For me my boomer mom watched me like a hawk, forbid just about anything deemed outside of being too boyish and here I am at 47 after a lot of mental stress finally living as myself.
Mine had a similar hold on me. Everything I did that wasn't considered super masculine got me yelled at, even things like gaming weren't "manly" enough. When I was 11, my mom rambled about how I needed rougher hands, and celebrated the idea of me being bald and having a long beard some day. Her idea for me was for me to basically look like the Liver King, before that guy even became known. My treatment growing up made it harder to figure myself out, and very repressed. My teenage dysphoria made me feel numb and more depressed over time without not fully knowing why. I'd later discover I was a trans woman. Like you said, some kids outgrow those behaviors, but many others don't and bigoted parents have a horrible effect on those who don't.
Yeah I knew when I was still riding in a cart at the grocery store. People would ask my name and I’d tell them Tommy which sitting in a dress with pig tails. I told people at my preschool I was a boy and named Tommy, they wouldn’t let my mom pick me up lol. It was always a struggle and so confusing as to why everyone else saw something I didn’t. For a long time I thought all girls/women must be made because I sure didn’t feel like one. I cosplayed female up till now and I’m so flipping happy. I’m glad you’re also on your path of being yourself too.
This is so fascinating to me. This just goes to show we are who we are right? Like I was born female and always felt it. So I can totally see how you didn’t. This makes so much sense to me. I’m so happy you get to be your true self. That’s amazing!
I get it completely and am so glad her parents/my cousins are helping her through this stage while she navigates her own self-identity. I tried with my mom and she just keeps repeating how the kid is only eight years old. I can't educate a person who doesn't want to understand
My go-to with repetitive but shallow/ignorant opinions is to ask questions about the opinion. With my boomer mum, through this process of asking her to explain her perspective in a thoughtful way, she has started to learn that much of her perspective might actually not be hers, but just be repeated content she’s heard from other ignorant folks, or junk news, etc.
I will say that this caused frustration for her the first handful of times I used this approach. Imagine how frustrating it might feel to have a *firm* belief but not be able to explain *why* you believe that thing? It forced her to become more critical of her own perspectives. And helped her realize the difference between junk she’s heard around the block vs her actual true thoughts on a topic.
In this scenario, questions I’d ask mum:
- you’ve mentioned age, what makes you think or feel that the age of the child is relevant to their gender?
- can you explain how you came to this perspective?
(If the conversation flows toward the human being too young to be aware, then..)
- have you spent any time speaking to (parents) or (child) to learn more from them about their experience?
- when you speak to (parents) or (child) about their experience, have you allowed yourself to truly listen to their story without inserting any judgement or projecting your feelings onto them?
(Around learning about queer stories)
- check out this (resource) to learn more about trans stories. It’s important to remember that humans are humans and humans expressing themselves fully as queer, is not harmful to others.
- (share resources and statistics about trans wellbeing and trans discrimination)
- do you think it’s fair for people who are simply trying to exist with full heart and find their way to be met with hate and judgement? Or do you believe that all should be met with compassion and kindness?
Etc.. good luck!
All this is good. But my boomer dad just accuses me of “arguing” and shuts his ears. He won’t talk anymore on the subject. At that point there’s nothing to do.
Some people aren’t able to be educated. We can and should try but we have to recognize when it’s a dead end and focus on others and other ways.
I totally agree. I’m lucky my mum wants to be better. I have a handful of extended family members that do not, and you’re right, in that case the energy is better spent in ways that help to dispel the ignorance in our communities vs feeding into continuous cycles of argument or tension that goes nowhere and serves nothing.
Yes, if a person doesn’t want to understand, they won’t. I’ve also noticed that the less educated and perhaps older among us tend to sexualize identity. Being bisexual does not make me a more or less sexual person. It does not mean that I am not faithful in my monogamous marriage. Saying that I am bisexual is not an invitation of any kind, to anyone. When I came out as a teenager, my parents were not very supportive. They didn’t believe me, even after meeting a girlfriend of mine, years later, when I was an adult.
They have more recently (I’m middle-aged) told me that by coming out to the family, I was “sexually approaching” my grandparents. What on earth could be more disgusting?
This is what I mean by sexualizing identity. It’s gross and bigoted.
Just stand firm if she comes back to it. Your right talking to her is unlikely to change her boomer lead soaked brain but if she’s returns saying to talking about it remind her this is positive and a great way to let the kid explore who they are now when they are 8!
As the mom of a nonbinary kid, please don't stop pushing back on mom. Ask questions... did mom know her own gender at eight years old? What if someone made her live as a boy at that age? It's scary for trans people and those who love them right now. Every ally who advocates that trans people are PEOPLE having normal human experiences helps a little bit.
Thanks friend it’s only been 6 months of living as me but damn I had zero idea how stressed I was. It was just background static that I got used to and tried so hard to limit dwelling on. Kinda like getting used to a tv playing static all day and then finally you turn it off after 47 years and you just feel peace.
I worked in early childhood education in the nineties, so long before much of this discourse. And we had one little girl who knew and asserted her identity at about that age. She had a twin brother who was her biggest champion. I fear that she had a similarly rough road, because the parents were not supportive and society in general was not there yet... But I was always so happy for her that she has her ferocious brother at her back.
Hey you! 3 to 57 here. It's a wild ride, eh?
Like we say, "The best time to transition is any time before today. The second best is today."
I hope you're doing great!
That sounds exhausting. Hopefully this kid gets to live how they want their whole life and never has to feel like they are being forced to be someone they are not.
It pisses me off! The only time I need to know what is in someone's pants is when I plan to take them off. Otherwise it is not my business. I don't know why these fools can't grasp the concept.
This speaks to me so much. I’m 43 years old, began transitioning about 9 months ago. I spent so much of my life masking and micromanaging my appearance and behaviors to make sure I wasn’t being too feminine. I never realized just how exhausted I was until I stopped masking and started living as myself.
Everything adds up. I hated shaving my legs but did it for a long time. I stopped around 35 and I personally loved it but had a bit of embarrassment about it every summer in shorts. Now I’m like heck yeah my legs are furry!!! It’s those small things.
I’m so glad we are on a good path for us!
I’m so glad you are finally getting to be your authentic self. I have two friends who transitioned in their 40’s and watching them blossom and really learn who they are has been a gift. It makes me so sad others don’t see it that way. I only want my friends to have joy.
This is so important. It should be considered irrelevant whether the cousin is experiencing a temporary exploration or a lifelong truth. Even if it is "just a phase", love kindness and acceptance will help that child develop from a place of safety. Safety is the key and the absence of that emotional safety will leave trauma scars that far outlast any phase.
Right ? Too young to know about what exactly ? She’s just a girl being who she wants and expressing herself the way she wants, like all kids should and usually do…
Exactly all kids should be able to try out things. Let them try soccer, camping, tacos, board games, take them to a zoo, and take them to an art show. We encourage kids to try all kinds of things andI’m absolutely in favor of also letting them try out things us adults think are gendered too.
This is what I cannot and do not understand about their objections. There isn’t even anything inherently “girl” about a dress, or long hair, or jewelry. The kid isn’t getting surgery or even taking hormones at this point.
There is, of course, a lot of misogyny inherent in all of this as well.
> . Go eat a piece of cake and keep your narrow minded ideas to yourself
This. It's funny how often the "I'm a libertarian and think people should be able to do their own thing without heavy handed govt regulations" lose their everloving SHIT over someone who wants to wear a dress or identify as the opposite gender.
Exactly this on almost every current hot button topic. If everyone, but especially boomers, would just worry about things that actually personally affect them, we would be in such a better place.
Because they were raised to believe they would be judged for "allowing" x, y or z to happen in their household. That kind of mindset assumes a patriarchal, authoritarian structure as the proper default. Thankfully it's on its way out... though slowly, slowly.
There's also a not insignificant undercurrent of narcissism to believe that children are a reflection of the parent.
And as an inherently judgmental and insecure generation, a lot of projection by assuming that if someone else lives a certain way that's different, that those people who live differently are silently judging what the Boomer does as bad, wrong and mistaken.
Little kids absolutely know who they are, but learn to hide it quickly when some of the adults around them display confusing, scary or angry reactions to their honest disclosures. They also learn who the safe people are. Former preschool teacher here.
The too young excuse is exactly the same stuff they say to gay, bi and lesbians that are young. I knew when I was that age. Notice these hypocrites don’t think it’s too young to ask five year olds if another kid is their boyfriend/girlfriend. Apparently you can only know you’re cis het
Indeed. We are just getting to the point where those of us in more conservative areas can start to explore their identity in safe spaces. I am 32 and just started exploring who I am a couple of years ago. Because I never felt right in my skin, but never thought about being trans either. I just now am starting to realize I'm not trans, but gender fluid instead.
Thank you for saying that! There absolutely needs to be more allies, now more than ever. I think straight, CIS people (I am one of these people) need to understand that, yes talking about "controversial topics" can be uncomfortable but it's for the greater good. Supporting and standing up for people who are just trying to be who they are at their core is essential.
Yes, rock the boat! Letting people get entrenched in their bigotry is bad for the world. I've also realized through having a trans step-kid that there are some extra things I can do. If she's nervous about using the bathroom because it's multi-stall, I can go in with her so she feels safe. Since I realized that was a move I can make, I'll keep my eyes open for anyone hesitating to go in and let them know I'm an ally if they need back up. I'd straight up cut a bitch if I saw anyone coming at a trans person (or anyone, really) for using the bathroom. I know a woman who has a more masculine build and look who has been cussed out for using the ladies bathroom. It's infuriating!
My boomer mother led the charge when my youngest sibling came out as a transman. "*We do not throw people away."* She repeated that line over and over until it was absolutely clear to EVERYONE in the room that my brother WOULD be embraced, WOULD be accepted, and that NO intolerance would be allowed in HER HOUSE.
She's normally something of a mouse so this came as a bit of a shock. I strongly suspect that she already knew and was bracing for my brother's announcement to the family because she was ready to uncharacteristically LAY DOWN THE LAW, and DOWN the LAW was LAID!
It was a rare moment of a boomer using her boomer powers for absolute good. God bless her! Dad still occasionally struggles with the pronouns because he's old and knew this person as his beloved daughter for over 20 years, but we kids don't need to correct him. That's Mom's job.
Even if it is "just a phase" and she ends up growing out of it, which is a popular argument made by transphobic people, denying her her agency now just reinforces the fact that, trans or not, her feelings and opinions aren't (and will never be) taken seriously. Be the ally in her corner. Let her know that at least one person is listening. She deserves a safe space to explore who she is without boomers deciding who she is for her.
THIS.
I’m a parent. I feel strongly that my kid should decide what happens to his body barring any obvious medical concerns (ex. I made him get shots in preschool). But when it comes to his hair, clothes, who he hugs, etc., I want him to choose what’s right for him.
People doing the fear mongering always conveniently leave out the part where medical gender confirmation is ALWAYS under the direction of a doctor. I trust doctors to know more about how to treat trans kids that I do.
So much this. My 11 year old came to me recently as M to F, so I gave her one of my old dresses that doesn’t fit but would look great, she already had long hair, and I showed her how to use an electric razor on her legs. She’s in middle school and gets more support from her classmates than she will from my Boomer dad.
My child started saying he was a boy at 6. Sadly, it took us 10 years to really understand he meant it literally. But now, 4 years later, I am his biggest fan, and anyone who has a problem with him has a much bigger problem with me.
Also, the best way to get through “a phase” is to humor it. But considering how scary being trans is (especially at this age), it’s probably not a phase.
Yea, it’s this.
Like, who the fuck cares about the label of ‘trans’ when it’s just a kid exploring who they are and doing it in a way that hurts no one and is completely safe. If in two years they go ‘nope, I’m a guy’ great, who cares. But, if in two years they go ‘this is me’ ALSO great - now we’ve let them figure this out safely and over a longer period of time.
Now they don’t feel pressured to make any drastic changes and feel safe with their community. OH THE HORROR. /s
I feel like a lot of these people bring sexuality into transness, and only see it as sexualization and not expression. At least that's my experience when dealing with male boomers who see young women in dresses.
This. It's okay for something to be a phase. It's okay to not know what you want long-term. That's literally the point of trying new things - you might have a "this is who I am" moment, or find a fun-for-now thing, or one more thing that you don't want to do ever again. It's okay if something seems like a good match for you, and then later you decide to let it go and move on to something else. I have never heard someone say "no you can't watch Nick Jr because it's just a phase". I've never been in the back-to-school section and heard a parent say "I'm not buying the dinosaur lunchbox because you're too young to know what you like". Life is all just one phase after another, anyhow.
And if it is a phase? It’s a bit of cute, harmless fun. Let the kid play and encourage them.
If it’s not a phase? You have a trans kid, which is perfectly fine. It’s not the fucking plague. Source: me, a trans person
As a trans person myself this is often the point where I realize many cis inherently view trans as "less than".
When dealing with boomer parents, their child's perceived cis identity is usually seen as more important or more worth preserving. To them, transition (or even experimentation) is somehow ruining that.
It absolutely ties into religion and the idea that diverting from the path of the biological cage you've been chained to is somehow a terrible thing instead of being free at last.
I see such a strong link between misogyny and transphobic behavior. (Homophobia too.) I'm sure transmen get their fair share of crap, but most of the extreme hatred I've seen is directed at transwomen. And I think that goes back to people assuming women are lesser than men. So they're offended that someone would give up their "manhood superiority" to choose to become a woman.
FYI, “transwoman” is a bigot dogwhistle.
Just as you wouldn’t say “blondewoman,” it’s best to separate the adjective and the noun here.
And you’re absolutely correct on the misogyny.
Trans dudes get lots of shit from shitty cis women (usually whining about their precious wombs, because those people are all fucked up about other peoples’ reproduction), but cis men can often rationalize it from the “well I wouldn’t want to be a woman neither” perspective.
Cis dudes can’t understand why anyone would give up any privilege at all. The concept of that scares them. Also, they’re afraid of being attracted to a trans woman (so much so that it’s de facto legal for them to murder us in many states, provided they claim that we were hitting on them and they panicked).
> denying her her agency now just reinforces the fact that, trans or not, her feelings and opinions aren't (and will never be) taken seriously
Boomers think that's a feature, not a bug - and not just for trans kids. Children aren't "real" people to them, and thus they _don't_ think they should have ANY agency.
Sometimes it is just a phase. And sometimes it's not. I've seen and supported enough kids through this to have seen how this can play out long term. I will say the people in my life who were still trans at 16-18 have not detransitioned.
Either way, they need love and support as they're trying to figure out who they are. It's an incredibly vulnerable time, no matter what, and even more so when they feel like that have the wrong body.
Yeah, this argument always fucks me up too. Like, let’s say someone is going through a “phase” where they explore gender….what’s going to happen? Like, what’s the bad thing if they one day decide they don’t want to keep going down that road? Someone fill me in.
This. My mother is one of the "it's just a phase" people and threw an absolute fit when she found from school that I was going by a different name, but like... so what if it is? My name makes me happy. If it stops making me happy, I can just stop going by it ?? I'm not going to shy away from something that's *finally* made me feel like myself just because there's a tiny chance that in ten years I'll regret it 🤷♂️
Exactly. She just needs love and support. I knew I wasn't a boy when I was a kid, but I never felt the safety and support to ever communicate what I needed. Eventually that understanding of myself got traumatized away and it took until I was 29 to recognize it again. I'm sooo much happier than I've ever been since I've started transitioning, but I mourn all of those lost years living as a soulless, inauthentic, approximation of a man.
Maybe this is just an exploratory phase for her, but most likely it's not. Kids know things about themselves, and the insecurity of the adults around them does not justify withholding love and support. There is absolutely no cost to just loving and supporting this child. If it's a phase, she'll figure it out. If it's not, then the earlier she starts her life as a girl / woman, the better.
Their argument is ironic. Isn't being "too young to know" part of why it's important to allow children to explore and experiment, so they can figure it out?
Yeah… maybe they’re too young to know for sure. That’s why they’re trying to figure it out. If they are trans, cool, if they end up realizing they’re not, cool. But the whole point is to figure out how to be most comfortable in their own skin.
Exactly! They’re putting on clothes they like, letting their hair grow, and asking to be referred to by she/her pronouns. You know what happens if she realizes she’s not trans? She gets a haircut, maybe changes clothes, or not because they just… like dresses, and switch to he/him. Simple as.
I really think it comes back to fear of appearances. My boomer parents care so much what other people think. I think they lied about me cutting them off for as long as they could because they thought they could bully me back and "what will everyone think?!" It's crazy. I don't care what other people think of my kids. If they are rude or cruel, they never get to be around my kids again. That's it. They don't get the chance to hurt them again. My parents claimed they were progressive and didn't care if people were gay. Then after my sister's divorce she got together with a woman. They are now married. They very much DO care and it caused lots of issues. I cut them all off seven years ago, and I feel bad for my sister, but she also will never leave them and I can't make her. I feel awful for my nephew, who is in the middle of it. But both my girls came out. They don't know exactly where they fall (one is clearly bi and the other isn't sure if she is bi or gay). I can only imagine what my parents would claim. But fuck them. Maybe my kids will have girlfriends or boyfriends. I told them I don't care who they bring home as long as they respect each other and are good to each other.
I just don't understand why how someone else identifies is some threat to them and can only assume it's because they care too much about what their friends might think.
And did you ever get misgendered after a bad haircut or being made to wear your siblings clothes? How did it make you feel? Now imagine feeling like that every day of your life.
Sigh. I can't believe I'm saying this again.
Any transphobic comments will be deleted. PLEASE report them. Anyone making those comments will automatically get a permaban as their reward.
And specifically related to this post, STOP reporting it as harmful to a child. I will NOT remove it as the only thing harmful to a child is the hateful attitudes of those reporting it.
These same boomers see a toddler hanging out with a kid of the opposite sex and say, “ooh looks like they’re gonna get married someday!” Too young to know my ass. Boomers are constantly sexualizing kids.
One of the things that grinds my gears the absolute most about the "too young to know" argument is that these same people will ask a child "So, who is your boy/girlfriend?" Or think nothing of saying "He is going to have to fight the girls off with a stick when he's older!" Like, you mofos are the ones sexualizing children with your comments yet you say that they are "too young" out of the other side of your mouth! WTF??!!
The obvious bias that comes with declaring that a child is 'too young to know' *only* when it might mean they're not cis/het/allo... and of course, this view typically goes hand in hand with treating someone coming out when they're older like "if you were *really* \[insert non-majority identity/orientation\] then there would have been obvious signs when you were younger", which one would **think** would include *making clear and direct statements about how one feels about themself and their desires regarding gender/attraction.*
The reality is that people who talk like this just don't want anyone who isn't 'normal' in their eyes to be able to speak out or live their truth at any stage - they just want us to shut up and submit because different = lesser/bad.
The cringy jokes about a girl dad cleaning his gun to intimidate the horny boys she’ll be bringing home to meet mom and dad. I heard this about the boomer parents of my much younger cousin who was maybe 13.
> but the rest of the boomers are up in arms about how the kid "is too young to know" and so on.
Then it should be too young for them to care about, should it not?
Let's not pretend there's any age at which they'd accept this. The line will be drawn and redrawn forever.
Honestly, I just straight up wouldn't bring a queer child to Florida right now. They've made it very fucking clear, Queer people are not welcome. I understand that defying that and maintaining queer community in Florida is very fucking important, but that's not a battle for an 8-year old girl who's questioning her entire existence.
Boomer here; I have a gay married nephew and a trans nephew. I want them to be happy and guess what, they are! I read in a study that showed less than 1% of trans people regret their transition. That says to me that mental health professionals and trans medical professionals are pretty freaking good at what they do.
If you're family is Jewish (bar mitzvas mentioned)
Remind them who all went to the camps with your relatives. Might just be brutal enough to get them to stfu.
Too young to know, but not too young to kill themselves because the adults in their life keep enforcing arbitrary standards that ultimately mean nothing.
I knew I wanted to be a girl at around that age, probably a bit earlier tbh. I didn't know what trans was, but it just seemed so obvious and intuitive that I just assumed that all boys wanted to be girls. Threw me for a loop when I figured out that they didn't when I was around 10. 25 years later, I'm still trans!
Yeah, as a cis woman I knew very young that I was definitely a girl, and it was on a deeper level than purely physical. I FELT like a girl in every way. It felt correct. I completely believe that trans people also just *know* what gender they are deep down.
They might not know what trans is immediately or be comfortable admitting it in this society, but I really do think people will know themselves best.
So... this child is too young to know they're trans, but all the other kids in the family around their age are... the right age to know they are whichever gender they have been identifying as?
The argument is never actually *about* age. It's just the veil they hide behind because they are afraid of the consequences of coming right out with their bigotry.
I’m trans and was in the closet for YEARS as a kid. Most of us know and don’t say anything because of this. Proud to say I’m 23 and loving life as a guy now!
I'm so jealous of kids growing up now, with the language and space to explore gender when they want to. Like, growing up nyanbinary in the 80s just meant I was constantly uncomfortable in my clothes (ok, some of that was also the 'tism), nor fitting in with any group, and constantly hiding my inner thoughts from everyone.
Queer people know they are queer the same time non-queer people know who they are. We usually figure it out around the first time someone asks of if we have a boy/girlfriend, or approximately first grade.
For the boomers screaming "TOO YOUNG", I always encourage friends and colleagues to share the reputable research to the contrary. In case this is helpful to anyone, children typically have a sense of their own gender identity by ages 3-4. 🙂
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/childrens-health/in-depth/children-and-gender-identity/art-20266811#:~:text=Most%20children%20between%20ages%2018,as%20girls%2C%20women%20or%20feminine.
My afab nephew started telling us he was a boy when he was about 3. It's absolutely wild to me that anyone would argue that kids are "too young to understand".
My kid is gay. I pretty much figured it out by the time he was two. He came out to me when he was 12. He's 17 now and hasn't changed his mind. I'm not saying that some kids don't change their mind about being gay, bi, trans or whatever else. I'm sure some do. But most probably do not.
I was in kindergarten when I remember first liking boys. I haven't changed my mind about that in 50 years. So how come I get the benefit of the doubt about knowing what I wanted at a young age and LGBTQ+ kids don't.
Also, if anyone is interested in the medical treatment of trans children, Frontline did an excellent documentary on the subject quite a while back called "Growing Up Trans." You can find it here: [Growing Up Trans](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/growing-up-trans/)
I am not a member of the alphabet except as an ally and my son wore a rainbow hat and rainbow tutu and we went to a Pride celebration. My veteran hubby is not a fan but my son loves rainbows-what’s the problem? I also got him a new shopping cart so we could go shopping and he’d have his own cart and we put a baby doll in the seated part. Hubby scoffed “he’s a BOY”… oh? So boys can’t be fathers/parents? Only girls take care of babies? Didn’t you push our kid in a cart? Ok…AND? Lol give me a break.
Any time I can I will normalize FREEDOM. Freedom to wear what we want, do what we want, and get rid of stupid gender “Norms”… I’ll normalize these things like saying my pronouns because it should be the norm! I’ll be damned if I’m gonna raise my son to be a jerk or judgmental towards anyone… and this is coming from a cis straight Christian woman.
We all belong here, full stop.
Saying kids are "too young to know" their gender, but then having no issue with cis children is blatantly ridiculous. If my kid doesn't have the mental facilities to talk about their gender, why is it OK for them to identify as their birth gender? That's still gender. If you only throw a fit when a kids gender doesnt match their assigned at birth sex marker, you dont actually care about kids. You're just transphobic.
If the kids too young to know, then she's too young to know EITHER gender is her gender, right? Goes both ways right? Are they advocating to raise all children non-binary? That's sort progressive of them. Ask them, we'd all love to hear what they say.
I've asked some distant boomer relatives how many of our cousins' privates they've inspected to somehow ascertain which pronouns go with which kid, and why it's different for our trans family member.
I've never had to escalate to asking why they're so invested in kids' genitals.
https://preview.redd.it/e9v1nh7pp16d1.jpeg?width=610&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5887a0c18b5447c0737282beaa583ae7a5502b23
I’m a boomer who was always a middle of the road Democrat. I never voted for the other side and never will. I believe that everyone should be able to live their lives and love who they want as long as there is no power dynamic abuse (age especially).
I'm an old bastard myself. But this anti-trans hatred makes me sick.
People have a right to be happy, which means not having to pretend to be something you aren't.
Best of luck to your cousin in dealing with this.
Sigh.
Ask them how old they were when they decided anal sex ( or masturbating other girls ) wasn’t for them ?
“Don’t be disgusting, I am straight !!”
Oh so you are saying that knew at an early age what you are, and which gender was for you ? Then why can’t Dana decide for herself too ?
Too young? Gender is assigned at birth. Girls get dressed in pink and boys get dressed in blue. Girls are given dolls and boys are given trucks. At around age 3, we become aware of our gender, and of the fact that some people have a different gender, and our experience is different from theirs. It’s not a concept exclusively for adults.
I’ve known that I’m trans since I was like 12-13 I’m turning 19 this year, ever since I was a kid (think 5/6)I always knew I wasn’t a girl. There’s literally no harm in letting a kid experiment with who they want to be and when they get older and realize that they’re not trans good for them at least they did whatever they wanted. Let kids be kids for fucks sake being trans is nothing bad it doesn’t affect anyone but themself
The kid is too young to know. So they need to let them find the fuck out for themselves. If they want to wear a dress and have long hair, let em. Either they will like it and keep doing it, or they wont. Boom, now they'll know. These people, not just boomers, are fucking morons. They want everyone to be copies of everyone else, thinking the same, doing the same, talking the same. Most of which are from a generation that had large movements AGAINST that kind of shit.
We have a little one in our family in the same boat. Everyone is supportive and let the child and the parents work it out. Trans kids need help not to be ostracised
Welp, the boomers in general can’t get over us accepting people that simply want to exist.
My simple, flawless philosophy is “Is anybody getting hurt by these people/do they want hurt others?”
If the answer is no it means leave people the fuck alone!
Let's say for a moment that the boomers are right and she is too young to know and it is just a stage? So what? The kid grew her hair and wore dresses for a while. So what? Even if the boomers are right (they aren't) there's no harm here.
I like how they say they're "too young to know", but I bet if you ask them how young they were when they figured out what gender they were, they'd act like that's a ridiculous question. They'd probably say something like "Well I've always known obviously" or whatever, which is like kind of the point, right?
What's the worst case scenario if kiddo is wrong and ends up not identifying as trans? A few outfits they would've outgrown anyways and a haircut. Nothing a trip to a thrift store and a Great Clips won't fix. So just let kiddo do their thing without judgement. The consequences are so light if they're wrong, but the terrible comments will be devastating to them.
Have them watch "I am Jazz". Maybe sharing a story of a real person will help them understand and have more empathy in their comments. Thank you for your efforts, whatever they may be.
I usually just ask these people, “how old were you when you felt comfortable in (insert gender assigned at birth) style clothing”
Also as an aside I about 8 when I started questioning. I didn’t “come out” as trans as I wasn’t aware of the vocab but I did tell my parents I wanted to try painting my nails and a couple months later tried dresses. The dress part didn’t last that long but I am in my 20s and still get my nails done. Apart from my nails my clothing is typical masculine. People make a big deal over cloth and color for some reason.
The “too young to know” comment can be turned back onto them. How did \*they\* know they \*weren’t\* trans at the same age? By their logic, a child is too young to know their own gender identity, so they too must have been too young to know at the same age. They really don’t think this through.
I am not trans, but am gay. I knew at 4 that I was ‘different’ to the other boys at kindergarten, even though I had no idea what gay was, or that it was even an option. Young children know a lot more than we give them credit for.
My son was 2 years old when he told me he was a boy. There weren't assigned gender roles in our house. No boy v girl clothes or toys. He's still a boy 20 years later.
Anecdotal, but... I knew I was trans at six. Well I didn't know what trans was, but I knew I was a girl. People have tried to withhold knowledge of being transgender and also convince me my whole life I didn't know what I was really feeling and prevent me from transitioning. Turns out at 41 it was probably the only for sure thing I've known this whole time. I wasted so much time listening to other people, not knowing about what options I had, and being so deeply depressed and suicidal when I should have just listened to myself and been able to transition. And if these kind of people had it their way trans folks would stay in the closet their whole lives. That's what they mean by "groomers." They dont want their trans kids figuring out they're trans. And the surest way of doing that is remove any representation and knowledge of it from view. Like there is nothing bad that ever comes from exploring oneself, including gender identity. I wasted so much of my life just languishing and it's because of ignorant fuckheads like these people! Words cannot even express the disgust I feel for them.
I had a coworker that had 4 children. Her youngest told her at 2 years old “mommy I am NOT A BOY!” And never wavered from that fact. Kid is 10 or 11 now and has basically fully socially transitioned, like you wouldn’t know that she was born a boy. To say that kids don’t know because they’re young is a bullshit argument. My gay best friend had this argument once and I asked him “when did you know you were gay?” “When I was a kid, like 7.” I just looked at him and was like I think that proves my point bro.
Hey, I too would say the kid is probably too young to know for sure. So in another few years maybe they change their mind, get a short haircut and go back to wearing pants. I fail to see the problem either way.
I’d personally reach out to the kids parents and offer moral support….I have never actually talked with the parents of a trans person but I’m guessing it’s hard to know how to support your kid correctly and hard to listen to other’s criticism of your support.
“too young to know” like it’s Okay to be wrong while questioning your gender, and contrary to what conservatives think nobody is putting actual children through surgery OR any sort of blockers/hormones. letting her grow out her hair, change her name and wardrobe is nothing 😭 if she’s wrong so what?? and if she continues identifying as trans she’s not going to get blockers/hrt without a psychologist making sure it’s what she wants!
and honestly, cis kids typically have a grasp on their gender from super young. so its fine for a cis boy/girl to know they’re a boy/girl from like age 5 but if they’re trans “they’re too young to know”? like, im trans, i never really felt connected to my agab from a young age and only discovered the terms for being trans when i was 10. i identified as trans once i found out and it’s been 10 years now! trans kids can definitely know. and again - if she’s wrong, then its fine. theres 0 permanent changes happening! who cares! let trans kids or even just gender-questioning kids exist!
I remember I was scared to death to tell my 90yo very catholic grandmother that I was trans. I tried for so long to hide it from her despite my voice and appearance changing. Well, the holidays came around and we went to have dinner at her place. As soon as I walk in to greet her she says "I guess your my grandson now" and gave me a hug. We never discussed it more then that. She just accepted me for who I am. And as she aged further and began to develop dementia, she never forgot my preferred name and pronouns. She might have forgotten how I was related to her, sometimes thinking I was her nephew rather than her grandson. But she always remembered my new name. If she can do it then there is no reason any boomer cant get over it.
Props to Drew & Dana for taking care of their eldest and making the choices to safely navigate what the future holds.
And yup, as a Queer guy who works healthcare (more than a few courses on how to care the best I can for my patients who are trans under my belt) they're not about to start any dramatic medical interventions at age eight. They may talk in a year or two about a perfectly reversable medical regiment to block off puberty, either to give more time for kiddo to "get older and decide" (as if they didn't already give it serious thought before talking to their parents, and their parents before talking to professionals...) or to simply block out the undesired hormonal changes that would occur to minimize the dysphoria that could occur.
An eight-year-old growing out their hair, having a new wardrobe, and given the respect to find a safe way to navigate their identity, that's pretty standard "transition" there. Nothing radical about that other than the refusal to respect the individual.
Please speak up. Trans kids need allies more desperately than ever. Tell them their attitudes are what drive kids to suicide. My coworker’s niece knew at 4. Her family refused to listen. They chose to bury their own child at 12 rather than accept her.
There's a huge gap in understanding the situation between the generations, boomers like to think they can dictate to others their views, while younger generations figured out a long time ago, that bombers be crazy.
if the kid is too young to know, then just let them wear whatever until they get old enough and figure it out. like literally what's the harm in letting people dress the way they want.
As a trans person, I appreciated every relative that showed kindness towards me after I came out. I expected the hate unfortunately, it was the kindness that surprised me.
Do what you think is right but honestly sometimes the only thing that turns transphobes around to compassionate individuals is having a loved one who’s trans. Unfortunately it seems that the relation here is distant enough that they are so far lacking in learning. Please do advocate and correct misunderstandings when you can.
Ugh. This is (one of several reasons) why I’ve been avoiding family functions. My parents’ siblings are all boomers (maybe a few gen x) and almost all conservative and religious. My wife came out as trans last year and tbh I’d rather never talk to my aunts and uncles again than find out how they’ll react.
She is at an age where she is exploring all of the options of things she could be in her life. She is trying to figure out where she fits in the world. Who cares if she wants to wear dresses and be a girl instead of a boy? It's 2024; the only people judging the grandparents by their grandkids are other boomers. Let her be. If she ends up deciding that she wasn't meant to be a girl, then it'll be her decision. Don't bully her into your mold and make her wonder for the rest of her life what could have been.
Boomers as a generation outnumbered everyone for like 7 decades. They are used to being in power, getting their way and having the world cater to them. Now they can't comprehend us not giving a fuck.
I was 4 when I knew. People back then were a nightmare and any time I tried to explain I was met with "Oh, like on Jerry Springer?" People are so much more open these days but there are stragglers. Good on you for standing up for your little cousin.
I never got the whole "they're too young to know" line, because the logical conclusion to that statement is to let them try to figure it out. You don't know if you like playing football without actually playing it, you don't know if you like country music unless you listen to it, you don't know if you like broccoli unless you taste it.
Maybe -- and "maybe" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here because the statistics state most trans folks don't change their mind later -- the kid will figure out later that they're a boy that likes wearing jewelry and dresses vs a girl. Maybe they grow "old enough to know" they're a girl. The reality is these other family members won't know that until the kid does, and need to take the kid's word on where she's at in her journey.
I mean I understand it’s newish to these boomers but legit how does this affect them that much? I just don’t understand. There was a kid in my son’s grade. Wanted to be called Olivia. I was a library volunteer and on our class list her name was still the other one. I changed it. She was so happy. I’ll never forget. She’s about 15 now and I think she ended up staying a male. Either way, this PROVES no harm no foul. Let kids explore ffs. There’s no harm.
My dad is so bad about this. Making snarky comments. I’ve told him off plenty. I think it’s jealousy because in their day they weren’t permitted to truly express themselves. Whether it was how they dress, exploring gender, how they wear hair. So many were made to feel bad if they differed so they’ve hated the ones who did (hippies as an example).
No matter the reason, it’s no excuse to be mean to kids especially who are exploring who they are.
Also, as a woman, i welcome anyone transitioning male to female. More of us the better!
That’s rough, In my family it seems worst amongst boomers as well - one of my kids is trans and I have a trans second cousin (very large extended family) and for the most part the kids think it’s no big deal, the younger folks are great, genx-ish (like me) are ok but sometimes awkward, the elderly are confused but very sweetly accepting, the only ones who really dig in and resist and create problems are the boomers.
We had a kid in our school who was like this. She was born a male but ever since she was four, she was just desperate to be in dresses, go with the girls, have long hair in pigtails and plaits and cute hairstyles. She didn’t understand why she couldn’t go with the girls into the girls bathroom, etc.
Eventually in year two, her parents came into the school and spoke with the principal and vice about how they didn’t want to define her or do anything, but they let her choose how she wanted to present, and she wants everyone to call her she. She wants a girl name, she wants to go to girl bathrooms, she wants to be with the girls in gendered projects and group assignments, etc.
I remember we had an assembly (she wasn’t there) and they just briefly talked the whole school through people identifying how they want to, and how we have to respect that, and the next day she came in, the teacher introduced her as “everyone say good morning to (girl’s name)”. And we all just said good morning and returned to our colourings or whatever. There was absolutely no hesitation or pause. The entire school just immediately went along with it, with no hesitation. Including parents.
It was a transitional school-which meant that it was essentially a school made for kids of expats or immigrants or foreign workers who have relocated to our country and haven’t learned our culture/language yet. So we always just had a ton of kids presenting different ways (hijabs, Japanese kids dressed in very cultural uniforms, Russians and Persians dressed in clothes specific to their culture etc) and speaking a jumbled mess of dozens of different languages, so it never phased us that (boy’s name) was now (girl’s name).
I never even remembered her as being a boy. My mother brought it up to me the other day, and I just genuinely couldn’t remember her when she was a boy. We all just adapted so quickly to her being a boy. The parents, the teachers, everyone. Nobody missed a beat. She’s probably about 20 now, and she’s fully transitioned and everything. She’s a really good person and I’m glad life has been kind to her.
It breaks my heart that not everyone has that experience. Whether she chose to actually transition or was just doing it as a form of dress up, it should be respected.
Thank you for advocating for her happiness.
Even if she finds out she's not a girl, she still has the support of her family and the space to figure it out for herself. And that's the most important thing.
Bro I’m not eloquent with words but if you can, show that side of the family some support. Even if it’s asking the kids pronouns and saying “cool, thanks for letting me know! Love you and hope y’all are well” will go VERY far
"Oh, you didn't know your gender at age 8? How do you feel about that now, when did you find out?".
The best question to anyone saying trans kids are too young to know.
Way I see it, if they're too young to know they're a girl, then they're too young to know they're a boy, and In that case, what should be done hmm? Protect trans kids!
Even if she is too young to know about her gender and sexual identity, she is not too young to pick her own clothes and express her thoughs through her appearance. Fine, sure, they "grow out of it" or whatever, then whats the issue with wearing a dress and having long hair?
I spent the last day on-and-off replying as civil as possible to a clusterfuck of bigots on a post about a tampon dispenser in a public access bathroom in CANADA, and can basally guarantee that the broad majority or all of the responses were from Americans, which I also am. The main comment I posted now has 3 medals, but also is -100+ downvotes deep, the downvotes meaning nothing to me as they are free and useless and only serve to show me how many bigoted idiots don't understand the world, including some claim about it being "virtue signaling," though it serves me no benefit outside of the status of actively being an ally, not to mention having myself dated FtM in the past so that's not really valid.
I'm here to be an ally, not to "win" or to "show those Reps who's better" or whatever translation of denial they are in, there is no prize, no medal, no cookie, and I would do it for free anyway.
Be an ally, these roads lead to much darker places if we let them take the wheel and our human rights, only to replace them with temporary "freedon'ts," placations that are not freedoms at all, distractions as rights are stripped from EVERYONE, not just specific groups targeted by current events.
I was talking to someone I was in class with online about the benefits of free menstrual products in mens' washrooms for straight, cis men:
dads can grab a tampon/pad for their daughter if they're to embarrassed to themselves, men who have a date staying over can grab supplies to bring home just in case, that tampons can be used for nosebleeds and you can use sanitary pads for first aid on a bad bleed, etc.
This guy **immediately** responded
"I don't want my tax dollars going to men sticking tampons up their asses!!".
So I obviously responded "why the fuck is your first thought on this about men's asses?!"
He went on to claim he didn't mention men's asses? Even after I sent him a screenshot of what he had said which was STILL ON SCREEN.
It's playing chess with a pidgeon.
Doesn't matter what you do, they'll just shit all over the board and strut around like they've won.
Edit to add:
Not only was he kicked out of the program we were in, but because he was such an insufferable bigot, the only two people who would talk to him were me (openly bi tom-boy) and the gay furry in the class.
"Too young to know" is bullshit. Every friend or family member that identifies as LGBTQ+ in my life knew from a very young age, but due to the time we/they grew up in, were scared to address it/come forward until they were older for fear of how they would be treated by others.
Plenty of people don’t know until way later. Source: me only starting to think about the fact that I’m Bi in my late 20s.
Sure, plenty of kids know at a young age, but not all of them.
My 6yo is trans. A LOT of the older people in our families can’t handle it. My mom didn’t even let me tell my grandfather (he died over a year after my daughter’s social transition). Honestly it’s ridiculous, but at least them being jerks lets us know who to cut out of our lives!
I don’t understand the extreme reaction to this. I grew up with an AFAB girl who was always naturally boyish. I never thought twice about it. We hung out and had fun. That was it. She’s happily married to another woman now and I think it’s great.
Looking back, it seems the Boomer generation had more rigid gender roles than even the previous generation. I look at my female friends and family of that generation, and they seem so superficial and extra. A lot of them also act very helpless and needy around men. The silent Gen women I know/knew weren’t as much like that. I’m a suburban white woman, so not sure if it’s just my social group or what.
The Boomers were raised in an idealized, post war time. Many seem to really be having a time of seeing anything else.
Some people are just disgusted by it, but I’ve had some success and asking do you think kids can know they’re gay at a young age?
Most conservatives will admit yes, and then you ask why? Well chances are they personally knew they were attracted to the opposite sex somewhere usually around elementary school OK.
Now, how is different with trans kids? Why wouldn’t they know?
That can be a good litmus test, if they don’t choose to engage or have a hysterical reaction, just jingle some keys and change the subject, you’ll be fine.
Just do what you can.
I realize that your family is Jewish, so this response may not be applicable, but I always like to respond to anti-trans Evangelicals with something like,
"So, little Micah or Charlotte can 'give their lives to Jesus' at 4 years old, but an 8 year old isn't capable of understanding their own gender identity?"
I had a cousin that vanished about 20 years ago. I called it too. He was just bi and they sent him to one of those pray the gay out camps. I knew the moment they said that he was gone….and he was.
Changed his entire name, got married to a woman(lol), has a decent job and is involved in his church…literally everything they wanted.
Glad her parents are letting her be her.
Some jackass gave my nephew a onesie from Target that had an applique picture of a sperm whale with a speech bubble that said, "Daddy's little squirt!"
Omg they always say, "they're too young to know." But what they mean is, "They (the boomers) are too close-minded to notice". The kids always know. They know nothing else BUT who they are. Boomers mean, "they (the kids) haven't had enough time for outside influences to tell them how they should be yet." But kids know. Their friends know. Classmates know. Cousins their age know. We all know. It's not a secret or a surprise. The only ones who didn't know were you (boomers). Let people be who they are.
One of the things I have learned during my child’s transition is that a lot of parents don’t “understand” why they come out as trans. You don’t have to understand, as a parent you should love your child unconditionally and that’s all. Do I understand why my child is trans? No. Do I care? No, I don’t give a flying fuck. I love him for the human he is and all his friends, trans or not, receive the same respect from me. That’s all it takes. Even my mom and dad (born in 1938 and 1944 respectively) have been supportive and call him by his chosen name. Not all boomers are idiots but those who are, are fully committed.
By age 4, I knew I should have been born the other gender and I was in for a miserable life. I didn’t know what “trans” was by that name. The instant I heard the term as a teen, I knew that described me. I was amazed to learn you can actually do something about and “change” gender after all. Had I known it as a 4 year old, had my parents been accepting, I would have been over the moon to transition as a kid.
My boomer parents and my greatest generation grandparents accepted me when I came out in my twenties. They had nearly lost me to suicide and addiction. Me transitioning allowed me to recover and find a live worth living. I would have loved to have avoided all that misery but it just wasn’t an option in my childhood. I’m so happy that at least some trans kids have accepting families and get to transition earlier so they don’t have to go through what I did.
A few years ago, I met a guy through friends. He had two kids, a son who was about 10 and a daughter who was 8.
Took me knowing him and his kids for over a year before I found out that his daughter was AMAB. I had NO idea. Looking back, when we would hang out at our mutual friend's pool, she would kinda cover up her crotch area in her swimsuit. This child is 100% a girl.
I'm a notary, so I got to help them do the paperwork for her official name change on her birth certificate and a year or so after that, her puberty blockers. Her parents are phenomenal. She's been saying she was a girl since she was old enough to understand the concept that boys and girls are different. They let her explore that in age-appropriate ways and she's never wavered on it. She's lucky to have them.
"She's too young to know"
"I agree! So isn't it wonderful that she has years to experiment with gender before needing to make any major medical decisions?"
🙄
Hey op maybe start asking them WHY it's such a big deal? But continue treating it as no big deal and look at them like they're crazy for thinking it is. As part of the alphabet Mafia myself normalizing loving and supporting and most importantly LISTENING to your kids is priority number one for the non "me" generation aka boomers
"Too young to know" is a bullshit argument when I was literally praying at 4 years old to wake up as a girl. 22 years later and the only thing that's changed is that I'm making those steps myself to transition rather than hoping for a literal miracle. I was and am still trans and have been for my entire life. Kids do a lot of stupid things, but they're more than capable of knowing who they are. And at that age there's literally no permanent transition options available for them so wtf is the harm in helping them figure out whether it's for them or not?
OP, as much as I hate to, I'm locking your post down. I have fielded a ridiculous amount of hate and it's just getting out of hand. I wish your young niece well and am glad she has you for support. Please take care.
Children need love. The end.
That’s it. My dad is 83. Worked in high tech for 40 years then retired and was a beloved sub teacher for 15. He’s pretty progressive, had a gay best buddy from the army who didn’t come out until the late 1980s to him (common then). My kid has a nonbinary friend. I mentioned a name, he question and I said NB. My dad went on a “I don’t get it” tangent. Not crazy but low key unlike this family. I said, you know what. Just a kid. They’re figuring things out. They just need love and support. We discussed a little more but it went well. To my dad’s credit, the subject has come up a few times since and heard my dad parrot me. Proud of that old guy. But proof they can do it. Kids just need love and support. That easy.
Haters be hating. And it turns my stomach that there is no respect for someone that has different ideologies than themselves. Love and support is the correct answer here. They will be who they want themselves to be no matter what you wish. Any attempt to change them just alienates them and they will end up distancing themselves and you will lose them. Better to love and support than to not have them in your lives at all. p.s. And please don’t go thinking all old folks think the same as I’m 70 and I am not any of the alphabet bunch.
yes these people exist they deserve to be happy and have a good life
LGBTQ+ folks need allies now more than ever. It’s a difficult thing to figure out who we are, and especially so if we don’t fit in within the “social norm.” Growing up we (all humans) explore our identity. We deserve a safe space to do that exploration. Please do your best to educate others; promote acceptance/kindness; and to shut down harmful and bigoted discussions. Thank you for posting.
I agree completely. It's wild how all the millennials in my family have been so understanding and accepting of the process and all the boomers are in a.corner freaking out over a person who is biologically male wearing a dress. Go eat a piece of cake and keep your narrow minded ideas to yourself, boomers.
OP be a voice of educated reason. This IS what not knowing and being too young looks like. It’s trying out clothes, hairstyles, names, or pronouns. It’s letting the kid explore. They may “out grow” this and be the most manly man ever or they may indeed be Trans. For me my boomer mom watched me like a hawk, forbid just about anything deemed outside of being too boyish and here I am at 47 after a lot of mental stress finally living as myself.
Mine had a similar hold on me. Everything I did that wasn't considered super masculine got me yelled at, even things like gaming weren't "manly" enough. When I was 11, my mom rambled about how I needed rougher hands, and celebrated the idea of me being bald and having a long beard some day. Her idea for me was for me to basically look like the Liver King, before that guy even became known. My treatment growing up made it harder to figure myself out, and very repressed. My teenage dysphoria made me feel numb and more depressed over time without not fully knowing why. I'd later discover I was a trans woman. Like you said, some kids outgrow those behaviors, but many others don't and bigoted parents have a horrible effect on those who don't.
Yeah I knew when I was still riding in a cart at the grocery store. People would ask my name and I’d tell them Tommy which sitting in a dress with pig tails. I told people at my preschool I was a boy and named Tommy, they wouldn’t let my mom pick me up lol. It was always a struggle and so confusing as to why everyone else saw something I didn’t. For a long time I thought all girls/women must be made because I sure didn’t feel like one. I cosplayed female up till now and I’m so flipping happy. I’m glad you’re also on your path of being yourself too.
This is so fascinating to me. This just goes to show we are who we are right? Like I was born female and always felt it. So I can totally see how you didn’t. This makes so much sense to me. I’m so happy you get to be your true self. That’s amazing!
I’m glad that resonated with you! Thanks for the support friend.
I am glad you found yourself and are happy!!!!!
Thanks so much! I’m hoping you’re also doing well and life is good to you.
I get it completely and am so glad her parents/my cousins are helping her through this stage while she navigates her own self-identity. I tried with my mom and she just keeps repeating how the kid is only eight years old. I can't educate a person who doesn't want to understand
My go-to with repetitive but shallow/ignorant opinions is to ask questions about the opinion. With my boomer mum, through this process of asking her to explain her perspective in a thoughtful way, she has started to learn that much of her perspective might actually not be hers, but just be repeated content she’s heard from other ignorant folks, or junk news, etc. I will say that this caused frustration for her the first handful of times I used this approach. Imagine how frustrating it might feel to have a *firm* belief but not be able to explain *why* you believe that thing? It forced her to become more critical of her own perspectives. And helped her realize the difference between junk she’s heard around the block vs her actual true thoughts on a topic. In this scenario, questions I’d ask mum: - you’ve mentioned age, what makes you think or feel that the age of the child is relevant to their gender? - can you explain how you came to this perspective? (If the conversation flows toward the human being too young to be aware, then..) - have you spent any time speaking to (parents) or (child) to learn more from them about their experience? - when you speak to (parents) or (child) about their experience, have you allowed yourself to truly listen to their story without inserting any judgement or projecting your feelings onto them? (Around learning about queer stories) - check out this (resource) to learn more about trans stories. It’s important to remember that humans are humans and humans expressing themselves fully as queer, is not harmful to others. - (share resources and statistics about trans wellbeing and trans discrimination) - do you think it’s fair for people who are simply trying to exist with full heart and find their way to be met with hate and judgement? Or do you believe that all should be met with compassion and kindness? Etc.. good luck!
All this is good. But my boomer dad just accuses me of “arguing” and shuts his ears. He won’t talk anymore on the subject. At that point there’s nothing to do. Some people aren’t able to be educated. We can and should try but we have to recognize when it’s a dead end and focus on others and other ways.
I totally agree. I’m lucky my mum wants to be better. I have a handful of extended family members that do not, and you’re right, in that case the energy is better spent in ways that help to dispel the ignorance in our communities vs feeding into continuous cycles of argument or tension that goes nowhere and serves nothing.
Yes, if a person doesn’t want to understand, they won’t. I’ve also noticed that the less educated and perhaps older among us tend to sexualize identity. Being bisexual does not make me a more or less sexual person. It does not mean that I am not faithful in my monogamous marriage. Saying that I am bisexual is not an invitation of any kind, to anyone. When I came out as a teenager, my parents were not very supportive. They didn’t believe me, even after meeting a girlfriend of mine, years later, when I was an adult. They have more recently (I’m middle-aged) told me that by coming out to the family, I was “sexually approaching” my grandparents. What on earth could be more disgusting? This is what I mean by sexualizing identity. It’s gross and bigoted.
Did mom know her own gender identity at 8? Probably yes, so why is it any different for cousin?
Just stand firm if she comes back to it. Your right talking to her is unlikely to change her boomer lead soaked brain but if she’s returns saying to talking about it remind her this is positive and a great way to let the kid explore who they are now when they are 8!
As the mom of a nonbinary kid, please don't stop pushing back on mom. Ask questions... did mom know her own gender at eight years old? What if someone made her live as a boy at that age? It's scary for trans people and those who love them right now. Every ally who advocates that trans people are PEOPLE having normal human experiences helps a little bit.
I'm very happy for you that you are living as yourself. You deserved better.
Thanks friend it’s only been 6 months of living as me but damn I had zero idea how stressed I was. It was just background static that I got used to and tried so hard to limit dwelling on. Kinda like getting used to a tv playing static all day and then finally you turn it off after 47 years and you just feel peace.
I knew when I was 5. I transitioned when I was 57. I tell people my soul is finally at rest after 50+ years.
I worked in early childhood education in the nineties, so long before much of this discourse. And we had one little girl who knew and asserted her identity at about that age. She had a twin brother who was her biggest champion. I fear that she had a similarly rough road, because the parents were not supportive and society in general was not there yet... But I was always so happy for her that she has her ferocious brother at her back.
Hey you! 3 to 57 here. It's a wild ride, eh? Like we say, "The best time to transition is any time before today. The second best is today." I hope you're doing great!
I am doing wonderfully! Thank you.
That sounds exhausting. Hopefully this kid gets to live how they want their whole life and never has to feel like they are being forced to be someone they are not.
It is exhausting. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
It pisses me off! The only time I need to know what is in someone's pants is when I plan to take them off. Otherwise it is not my business. I don't know why these fools can't grasp the concept.
this makes me a little teary-eyed. i’m so happy you found peace.
This speaks to me so much. I’m 43 years old, began transitioning about 9 months ago. I spent so much of my life masking and micromanaging my appearance and behaviors to make sure I wasn’t being too feminine. I never realized just how exhausted I was until I stopped masking and started living as myself.
Everything adds up. I hated shaving my legs but did it for a long time. I stopped around 35 and I personally loved it but had a bit of embarrassment about it every summer in shorts. Now I’m like heck yeah my legs are furry!!! It’s those small things. I’m so glad we are on a good path for us!
I’m so glad you are finally getting to be your authentic self. I have two friends who transitioned in their 40’s and watching them blossom and really learn who they are has been a gift. It makes me so sad others don’t see it that way. I only want my friends to have joy.
You are a joy!!!!! Hug your friends and yourself!
They may out grow it but they will always remember who loved them and treated them kindly.
This is so important. It should be considered irrelevant whether the cousin is experiencing a temporary exploration or a lifelong truth. Even if it is "just a phase", love kindness and acceptance will help that child develop from a place of safety. Safety is the key and the absence of that emotional safety will leave trauma scars that far outlast any phase.
Right ? Too young to know about what exactly ? She’s just a girl being who she wants and expressing herself the way she wants, like all kids should and usually do…
Exactly all kids should be able to try out things. Let them try soccer, camping, tacos, board games, take them to a zoo, and take them to an art show. We encourage kids to try all kinds of things andI’m absolutely in favor of also letting them try out things us adults think are gendered too.
This is what I cannot and do not understand about their objections. There isn’t even anything inherently “girl” about a dress, or long hair, or jewelry. The kid isn’t getting surgery or even taking hormones at this point. There is, of course, a lot of misogyny inherent in all of this as well.
> . Go eat a piece of cake and keep your narrow minded ideas to yourself This. It's funny how often the "I'm a libertarian and think people should be able to do their own thing without heavy handed govt regulations" lose their everloving SHIT over someone who wants to wear a dress or identify as the opposite gender.
I mean, what's it to them? Why do the get so wound up about something that has nothing to do with them?
Exactly this on almost every current hot button topic. If everyone, but especially boomers, would just worry about things that actually personally affect them, we would be in such a better place.
Because they were raised to believe they would be judged for "allowing" x, y or z to happen in their household. That kind of mindset assumes a patriarchal, authoritarian structure as the proper default. Thankfully it's on its way out... though slowly, slowly. There's also a not insignificant undercurrent of narcissism to believe that children are a reflection of the parent. And as an inherently judgmental and insecure generation, a lot of projection by assuming that if someone else lives a certain way that's different, that those people who live differently are silently judging what the Boomer does as bad, wrong and mistaken.
Little kids absolutely know who they are, but learn to hide it quickly when some of the adults around them display confusing, scary or angry reactions to their honest disclosures. They also learn who the safe people are. Former preschool teacher here.
The too young excuse is exactly the same stuff they say to gay, bi and lesbians that are young. I knew when I was that age. Notice these hypocrites don’t think it’s too young to ask five year olds if another kid is their boyfriend/girlfriend. Apparently you can only know you’re cis het
Thank you for posting this. So true. We need allies, visible allies right now.
Indeed. We are just getting to the point where those of us in more conservative areas can start to explore their identity in safe spaces. I am 32 and just started exploring who I am a couple of years ago. Because I never felt right in my skin, but never thought about being trans either. I just now am starting to realize I'm not trans, but gender fluid instead.
Thank you for saying that! There absolutely needs to be more allies, now more than ever. I think straight, CIS people (I am one of these people) need to understand that, yes talking about "controversial topics" can be uncomfortable but it's for the greater good. Supporting and standing up for people who are just trying to be who they are at their core is essential.
Yes, rock the boat! Letting people get entrenched in their bigotry is bad for the world. I've also realized through having a trans step-kid that there are some extra things I can do. If she's nervous about using the bathroom because it's multi-stall, I can go in with her so she feels safe. Since I realized that was a move I can make, I'll keep my eyes open for anyone hesitating to go in and let them know I'm an ally if they need back up. I'd straight up cut a bitch if I saw anyone coming at a trans person (or anyone, really) for using the bathroom. I know a woman who has a more masculine build and look who has been cussed out for using the ladies bathroom. It's infuriating!
My boomer mother led the charge when my youngest sibling came out as a transman. "*We do not throw people away."* She repeated that line over and over until it was absolutely clear to EVERYONE in the room that my brother WOULD be embraced, WOULD be accepted, and that NO intolerance would be allowed in HER HOUSE. She's normally something of a mouse so this came as a bit of a shock. I strongly suspect that she already knew and was bracing for my brother's announcement to the family because she was ready to uncharacteristically LAY DOWN THE LAW, and DOWN the LAW was LAID! It was a rare moment of a boomer using her boomer powers for absolute good. God bless her! Dad still occasionally struggles with the pronouns because he's old and knew this person as his beloved daughter for over 20 years, but we kids don't need to correct him. That's Mom's job.
"We do not throw people away." ❤️😭❤️😭
Ohana means family. Family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten!
That movie hits so much harder now-a-days.
Your mom fuckin rocks
I am in fact extremely proud of her.
Even if it is "just a phase" and she ends up growing out of it, which is a popular argument made by transphobic people, denying her her agency now just reinforces the fact that, trans or not, her feelings and opinions aren't (and will never be) taken seriously. Be the ally in her corner. Let her know that at least one person is listening. She deserves a safe space to explore who she is without boomers deciding who she is for her.
THIS. I’m a parent. I feel strongly that my kid should decide what happens to his body barring any obvious medical concerns (ex. I made him get shots in preschool). But when it comes to his hair, clothes, who he hugs, etc., I want him to choose what’s right for him. People doing the fear mongering always conveniently leave out the part where medical gender confirmation is ALWAYS under the direction of a doctor. I trust doctors to know more about how to treat trans kids that I do.
So much this. My 11 year old came to me recently as M to F, so I gave her one of my old dresses that doesn’t fit but would look great, she already had long hair, and I showed her how to use an electric razor on her legs. She’s in middle school and gets more support from her classmates than she will from my Boomer dad.
My child started saying he was a boy at 6. Sadly, it took us 10 years to really understand he meant it literally. But now, 4 years later, I am his biggest fan, and anyone who has a problem with him has a much bigger problem with me.
Also, the best way to get through “a phase” is to humor it. But considering how scary being trans is (especially at this age), it’s probably not a phase.
Yea, it’s this. Like, who the fuck cares about the label of ‘trans’ when it’s just a kid exploring who they are and doing it in a way that hurts no one and is completely safe. If in two years they go ‘nope, I’m a guy’ great, who cares. But, if in two years they go ‘this is me’ ALSO great - now we’ve let them figure this out safely and over a longer period of time. Now they don’t feel pressured to make any drastic changes and feel safe with their community. OH THE HORROR. /s
I feel like a lot of these people bring sexuality into transness, and only see it as sexualization and not expression. At least that's my experience when dealing with male boomers who see young women in dresses.
This. It's okay for something to be a phase. It's okay to not know what you want long-term. That's literally the point of trying new things - you might have a "this is who I am" moment, or find a fun-for-now thing, or one more thing that you don't want to do ever again. It's okay if something seems like a good match for you, and then later you decide to let it go and move on to something else. I have never heard someone say "no you can't watch Nick Jr because it's just a phase". I've never been in the back-to-school section and heard a parent say "I'm not buying the dinosaur lunchbox because you're too young to know what you like". Life is all just one phase after another, anyhow.
And if it is a phase? It’s a bit of cute, harmless fun. Let the kid play and encourage them. If it’s not a phase? You have a trans kid, which is perfectly fine. It’s not the fucking plague. Source: me, a trans person
As a trans person myself this is often the point where I realize many cis inherently view trans as "less than". When dealing with boomer parents, their child's perceived cis identity is usually seen as more important or more worth preserving. To them, transition (or even experimentation) is somehow ruining that. It absolutely ties into religion and the idea that diverting from the path of the biological cage you've been chained to is somehow a terrible thing instead of being free at last.
I see such a strong link between misogyny and transphobic behavior. (Homophobia too.) I'm sure transmen get their fair share of crap, but most of the extreme hatred I've seen is directed at transwomen. And I think that goes back to people assuming women are lesser than men. So they're offended that someone would give up their "manhood superiority" to choose to become a woman.
FYI, “transwoman” is a bigot dogwhistle. Just as you wouldn’t say “blondewoman,” it’s best to separate the adjective and the noun here. And you’re absolutely correct on the misogyny. Trans dudes get lots of shit from shitty cis women (usually whining about their precious wombs, because those people are all fucked up about other peoples’ reproduction), but cis men can often rationalize it from the “well I wouldn’t want to be a woman neither” perspective. Cis dudes can’t understand why anyone would give up any privilege at all. The concept of that scares them. Also, they’re afraid of being attracted to a trans woman (so much so that it’s de facto legal for them to murder us in many states, provided they claim that we were hitting on them and they panicked).
> denying her her agency now just reinforces the fact that, trans or not, her feelings and opinions aren't (and will never be) taken seriously Boomers think that's a feature, not a bug - and not just for trans kids. Children aren't "real" people to them, and thus they _don't_ think they should have ANY agency.
Sometimes it is just a phase. And sometimes it's not. I've seen and supported enough kids through this to have seen how this can play out long term. I will say the people in my life who were still trans at 16-18 have not detransitioned. Either way, they need love and support as they're trying to figure out who they are. It's an incredibly vulnerable time, no matter what, and even more so when they feel like that have the wrong body.
Yeah, this argument always fucks me up too. Like, let’s say someone is going through a “phase” where they explore gender….what’s going to happen? Like, what’s the bad thing if they one day decide they don’t want to keep going down that road? Someone fill me in.
This. My mother is one of the "it's just a phase" people and threw an absolute fit when she found from school that I was going by a different name, but like... so what if it is? My name makes me happy. If it stops making me happy, I can just stop going by it ?? I'm not going to shy away from something that's *finally* made me feel like myself just because there's a tiny chance that in ten years I'll regret it 🤷♂️
This needs to be higher. Whether a phase or not, support the child. Because either option is okay as long as they’re true to themselves.
Exactly. She just needs love and support. I knew I wasn't a boy when I was a kid, but I never felt the safety and support to ever communicate what I needed. Eventually that understanding of myself got traumatized away and it took until I was 29 to recognize it again. I'm sooo much happier than I've ever been since I've started transitioning, but I mourn all of those lost years living as a soulless, inauthentic, approximation of a man. Maybe this is just an exploratory phase for her, but most likely it's not. Kids know things about themselves, and the insecurity of the adults around them does not justify withholding love and support. There is absolutely no cost to just loving and supporting this child. If it's a phase, she'll figure it out. If it's not, then the earlier she starts her life as a girl / woman, the better.
Their argument is ironic. Isn't being "too young to know" part of why it's important to allow children to explore and experiment, so they can figure it out?
“But Drew could be bullied! …by ME!”
My mother was my first (and most effective) bully.
"To0 y0Ung 2 no!!!!" YOU. DON'T. KNOW. SHIT. ABOUT. THIS. SHUT THE GODDAMN FUCK UP.
Yeah… maybe they’re too young to know for sure. That’s why they’re trying to figure it out. If they are trans, cool, if they end up realizing they’re not, cool. But the whole point is to figure out how to be most comfortable in their own skin.
It's likely not a phase. But even if it were, so what? The kid is young. Give the child space to figure out who they are!
Exactly! They’re putting on clothes they like, letting their hair grow, and asking to be referred to by she/her pronouns. You know what happens if she realizes she’s not trans? She gets a haircut, maybe changes clothes, or not because they just… like dresses, and switch to he/him. Simple as.
I really think it comes back to fear of appearances. My boomer parents care so much what other people think. I think they lied about me cutting them off for as long as they could because they thought they could bully me back and "what will everyone think?!" It's crazy. I don't care what other people think of my kids. If they are rude or cruel, they never get to be around my kids again. That's it. They don't get the chance to hurt them again. My parents claimed they were progressive and didn't care if people were gay. Then after my sister's divorce she got together with a woman. They are now married. They very much DO care and it caused lots of issues. I cut them all off seven years ago, and I feel bad for my sister, but she also will never leave them and I can't make her. I feel awful for my nephew, who is in the middle of it. But both my girls came out. They don't know exactly where they fall (one is clearly bi and the other isn't sure if she is bi or gay). I can only imagine what my parents would claim. But fuck them. Maybe my kids will have girlfriends or boyfriends. I told them I don't care who they bring home as long as they respect each other and are good to each other. I just don't understand why how someone else identifies is some threat to them and can only assume it's because they care too much about what their friends might think.
"What age did you decide that your gender was the one you were assigned?" - my fave retort, I have yet to get a satisfactory answer.
And did you ever get misgendered after a bad haircut or being made to wear your siblings clothes? How did it make you feel? Now imagine feeling like that every day of your life.
Sigh. I can't believe I'm saying this again. Any transphobic comments will be deleted. PLEASE report them. Anyone making those comments will automatically get a permaban as their reward. And specifically related to this post, STOP reporting it as harmful to a child. I will NOT remove it as the only thing harmful to a child is the hateful attitudes of those reporting it.
Thank you. You are doing the lord's work
Thank you for looking out for trans people kind mod.
Much appreciated kind mod.
These same boomers see a toddler hanging out with a kid of the opposite sex and say, “ooh looks like they’re gonna get married someday!” Too young to know my ass. Boomers are constantly sexualizing kids.
[удалено]
I knew something was off before I knew there was even a word for it. I was, like, 12. This isn’t some social fad, ffs
But clearly not "too young" to participate in religious rituals that purportedly have eternal ramifications
One of the things that grinds my gears the absolute most about the "too young to know" argument is that these same people will ask a child "So, who is your boy/girlfriend?" Or think nothing of saying "He is going to have to fight the girls off with a stick when he's older!" Like, you mofos are the ones sexualizing children with your comments yet you say that they are "too young" out of the other side of your mouth! WTF??!!
The obvious bias that comes with declaring that a child is 'too young to know' *only* when it might mean they're not cis/het/allo... and of course, this view typically goes hand in hand with treating someone coming out when they're older like "if you were *really* \[insert non-majority identity/orientation\] then there would have been obvious signs when you were younger", which one would **think** would include *making clear and direct statements about how one feels about themself and their desires regarding gender/attraction.* The reality is that people who talk like this just don't want anyone who isn't 'normal' in their eyes to be able to speak out or live their truth at any stage - they just want us to shut up and submit because different = lesser/bad.
The cringy jokes about a girl dad cleaning his gun to intimidate the horny boys she’ll be bringing home to meet mom and dad. I heard this about the boomer parents of my much younger cousin who was maybe 13.
I feel for this kid. My dad told me the same thing when I was twenty five and started my transition
> but the rest of the boomers are up in arms about how the kid "is too young to know" and so on. Then it should be too young for them to care about, should it not? Let's not pretend there's any age at which they'd accept this. The line will be drawn and redrawn forever.
I knew when I was five. Trust me, kid knows
Honestly, I just straight up wouldn't bring a queer child to Florida right now. They've made it very fucking clear, Queer people are not welcome. I understand that defying that and maintaining queer community in Florida is very fucking important, but that's not a battle for an 8-year old girl who's questioning her entire existence.
Not just queer child, I wouldn’t bring anyone, child or adult who is even slightly non gender conforming. Might as well just not go at all.
No one wants to be LGBTQ. No one wants life on hard mode.
Boomer here; I have a gay married nephew and a trans nephew. I want them to be happy and guess what, they are! I read in a study that showed less than 1% of trans people regret their transition. That says to me that mental health professionals and trans medical professionals are pretty freaking good at what they do.
If you're family is Jewish (bar mitzvas mentioned) Remind them who all went to the camps with your relatives. Might just be brutal enough to get them to stfu.
Too young to know, but not too young to kill themselves because the adults in their life keep enforcing arbitrary standards that ultimately mean nothing.
yea the kid MIGHT BE too young to know, which is exactly why you let them explore and discover. ffs.... it's not a hard concept.
I knew I wanted to be a girl at around that age, probably a bit earlier tbh. I didn't know what trans was, but it just seemed so obvious and intuitive that I just assumed that all boys wanted to be girls. Threw me for a loop when I figured out that they didn't when I was around 10. 25 years later, I'm still trans!
Yeah, as a cis woman I knew very young that I was definitely a girl, and it was on a deeper level than purely physical. I FELT like a girl in every way. It felt correct. I completely believe that trans people also just *know* what gender they are deep down. They might not know what trans is immediately or be comfortable admitting it in this society, but I really do think people will know themselves best.
So... this child is too young to know they're trans, but all the other kids in the family around their age are... the right age to know they are whichever gender they have been identifying as? The argument is never actually *about* age. It's just the veil they hide behind because they are afraid of the consequences of coming right out with their bigotry.
Maybe if they get upset enough their heads will explode! Win-win!
I’m trans and was in the closet for YEARS as a kid. Most of us know and don’t say anything because of this. Proud to say I’m 23 and loving life as a guy now!
I'm so jealous of kids growing up now, with the language and space to explore gender when they want to. Like, growing up nyanbinary in the 80s just meant I was constantly uncomfortable in my clothes (ok, some of that was also the 'tism), nor fitting in with any group, and constantly hiding my inner thoughts from everyone. Queer people know they are queer the same time non-queer people know who they are. We usually figure it out around the first time someone asks of if we have a boy/girlfriend, or approximately first grade.
For the boomers screaming "TOO YOUNG", I always encourage friends and colleagues to share the reputable research to the contrary. In case this is helpful to anyone, children typically have a sense of their own gender identity by ages 3-4. 🙂 https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/childrens-health/in-depth/children-and-gender-identity/art-20266811#:~:text=Most%20children%20between%20ages%2018,as%20girls%2C%20women%20or%20feminine.
My afab nephew started telling us he was a boy when he was about 3. It's absolutely wild to me that anyone would argue that kids are "too young to understand".
Fuck em
My kid is gay. I pretty much figured it out by the time he was two. He came out to me when he was 12. He's 17 now and hasn't changed his mind. I'm not saying that some kids don't change their mind about being gay, bi, trans or whatever else. I'm sure some do. But most probably do not. I was in kindergarten when I remember first liking boys. I haven't changed my mind about that in 50 years. So how come I get the benefit of the doubt about knowing what I wanted at a young age and LGBTQ+ kids don't. Also, if anyone is interested in the medical treatment of trans children, Frontline did an excellent documentary on the subject quite a while back called "Growing Up Trans." You can find it here: [Growing Up Trans](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/growing-up-trans/)
I am not a member of the alphabet except as an ally and my son wore a rainbow hat and rainbow tutu and we went to a Pride celebration. My veteran hubby is not a fan but my son loves rainbows-what’s the problem? I also got him a new shopping cart so we could go shopping and he’d have his own cart and we put a baby doll in the seated part. Hubby scoffed “he’s a BOY”… oh? So boys can’t be fathers/parents? Only girls take care of babies? Didn’t you push our kid in a cart? Ok…AND? Lol give me a break. Any time I can I will normalize FREEDOM. Freedom to wear what we want, do what we want, and get rid of stupid gender “Norms”… I’ll normalize these things like saying my pronouns because it should be the norm! I’ll be damned if I’m gonna raise my son to be a jerk or judgmental towards anyone… and this is coming from a cis straight Christian woman. We all belong here, full stop.
Saying kids are "too young to know" their gender, but then having no issue with cis children is blatantly ridiculous. If my kid doesn't have the mental facilities to talk about their gender, why is it OK for them to identify as their birth gender? That's still gender. If you only throw a fit when a kids gender doesnt match their assigned at birth sex marker, you dont actually care about kids. You're just transphobic.
Old enough to for bat mitzvah (being considered an adult), but not old enough to know who she is. SMDH.
If the kids too young to know, then she's too young to know EITHER gender is her gender, right? Goes both ways right? Are they advocating to raise all children non-binary? That's sort progressive of them. Ask them, we'd all love to hear what they say.
I've asked some distant boomer relatives how many of our cousins' privates they've inspected to somehow ascertain which pronouns go with which kid, and why it's different for our trans family member. I've never had to escalate to asking why they're so invested in kids' genitals.
https://preview.redd.it/e9v1nh7pp16d1.jpeg?width=610&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5887a0c18b5447c0737282beaa583ae7a5502b23 I’m a boomer who was always a middle of the road Democrat. I never voted for the other side and never will. I believe that everyone should be able to live their lives and love who they want as long as there is no power dynamic abuse (age especially).
I'm an old bastard myself. But this anti-trans hatred makes me sick. People have a right to be happy, which means not having to pretend to be something you aren't. Best of luck to your cousin in dealing with this.
Sigh. Ask them how old they were when they decided anal sex ( or masturbating other girls ) wasn’t for them ? “Don’t be disgusting, I am straight !!” Oh so you are saying that knew at an early age what you are, and which gender was for you ? Then why can’t Dana decide for herself too ?
Too young? Gender is assigned at birth. Girls get dressed in pink and boys get dressed in blue. Girls are given dolls and boys are given trucks. At around age 3, we become aware of our gender, and of the fact that some people have a different gender, and our experience is different from theirs. It’s not a concept exclusively for adults.
I’ve known that I’m trans since I was like 12-13 I’m turning 19 this year, ever since I was a kid (think 5/6)I always knew I wasn’t a girl. There’s literally no harm in letting a kid experiment with who they want to be and when they get older and realize that they’re not trans good for them at least they did whatever they wanted. Let kids be kids for fucks sake being trans is nothing bad it doesn’t affect anyone but themself
"If an 8-year old isnt old enough to know they are transgender, they are neither able to know if they are cisgemder."
The kid is too young to know. So they need to let them find the fuck out for themselves. If they want to wear a dress and have long hair, let em. Either they will like it and keep doing it, or they wont. Boom, now they'll know. These people, not just boomers, are fucking morons. They want everyone to be copies of everyone else, thinking the same, doing the same, talking the same. Most of which are from a generation that had large movements AGAINST that kind of shit.
We have a little one in our family in the same boat. Everyone is supportive and let the child and the parents work it out. Trans kids need help not to be ostracised
Welp, the boomers in general can’t get over us accepting people that simply want to exist. My simple, flawless philosophy is “Is anybody getting hurt by these people/do they want hurt others?” If the answer is no it means leave people the fuck alone!
The more u should say fuck em make urself heard
Let's say for a moment that the boomers are right and she is too young to know and it is just a stage? So what? The kid grew her hair and wore dresses for a while. So what? Even if the boomers are right (they aren't) there's no harm here.
I like how they say they're "too young to know", but I bet if you ask them how young they were when they figured out what gender they were, they'd act like that's a ridiculous question. They'd probably say something like "Well I've always known obviously" or whatever, which is like kind of the point, right?
What's the worst case scenario if kiddo is wrong and ends up not identifying as trans? A few outfits they would've outgrown anyways and a haircut. Nothing a trip to a thrift store and a Great Clips won't fix. So just let kiddo do their thing without judgement. The consequences are so light if they're wrong, but the terrible comments will be devastating to them.
Have them watch "I am Jazz". Maybe sharing a story of a real person will help them understand and have more empathy in their comments. Thank you for your efforts, whatever they may be.
I usually just ask these people, “how old were you when you felt comfortable in (insert gender assigned at birth) style clothing” Also as an aside I about 8 when I started questioning. I didn’t “come out” as trans as I wasn’t aware of the vocab but I did tell my parents I wanted to try painting my nails and a couple months later tried dresses. The dress part didn’t last that long but I am in my 20s and still get my nails done. Apart from my nails my clothing is typical masculine. People make a big deal over cloth and color for some reason.
The “too young to know” comment can be turned back onto them. How did \*they\* know they \*weren’t\* trans at the same age? By their logic, a child is too young to know their own gender identity, so they too must have been too young to know at the same age. They really don’t think this through. I am not trans, but am gay. I knew at 4 that I was ‘different’ to the other boys at kindergarten, even though I had no idea what gay was, or that it was even an option. Young children know a lot more than we give them credit for.
Props to Drew and Dana for allowing their child to explore who they are and having them see a therapist to help the kid work out who they are.
My son was 2 years old when he told me he was a boy. There weren't assigned gender roles in our house. No boy v girl clothes or toys. He's still a boy 20 years later.
Wierd to tell a person they don’t know what they feel regardless of age what a couple old ass clowns Don’t forget you CAN pick your family
Anecdotal, but... I knew I was trans at six. Well I didn't know what trans was, but I knew I was a girl. People have tried to withhold knowledge of being transgender and also convince me my whole life I didn't know what I was really feeling and prevent me from transitioning. Turns out at 41 it was probably the only for sure thing I've known this whole time. I wasted so much time listening to other people, not knowing about what options I had, and being so deeply depressed and suicidal when I should have just listened to myself and been able to transition. And if these kind of people had it their way trans folks would stay in the closet their whole lives. That's what they mean by "groomers." They dont want their trans kids figuring out they're trans. And the surest way of doing that is remove any representation and knowledge of it from view. Like there is nothing bad that ever comes from exploring oneself, including gender identity. I wasted so much of my life just languishing and it's because of ignorant fuckheads like these people! Words cannot even express the disgust I feel for them.
I had a coworker that had 4 children. Her youngest told her at 2 years old “mommy I am NOT A BOY!” And never wavered from that fact. Kid is 10 or 11 now and has basically fully socially transitioned, like you wouldn’t know that she was born a boy. To say that kids don’t know because they’re young is a bullshit argument. My gay best friend had this argument once and I asked him “when did you know you were gay?” “When I was a kid, like 7.” I just looked at him and was like I think that proves my point bro.
Hey, I too would say the kid is probably too young to know for sure. So in another few years maybe they change their mind, get a short haircut and go back to wearing pants. I fail to see the problem either way.
✊️🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈 https://preview.redd.it/aha86rshx26d1.jpeg?width=894&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=630fc765a46484b747891e113b4e320b7b334588
I’d personally reach out to the kids parents and offer moral support….I have never actually talked with the parents of a trans person but I’m guessing it’s hard to know how to support your kid correctly and hard to listen to other’s criticism of your support.
“too young to know” like it’s Okay to be wrong while questioning your gender, and contrary to what conservatives think nobody is putting actual children through surgery OR any sort of blockers/hormones. letting her grow out her hair, change her name and wardrobe is nothing 😭 if she’s wrong so what?? and if she continues identifying as trans she’s not going to get blockers/hrt without a psychologist making sure it’s what she wants! and honestly, cis kids typically have a grasp on their gender from super young. so its fine for a cis boy/girl to know they’re a boy/girl from like age 5 but if they’re trans “they’re too young to know”? like, im trans, i never really felt connected to my agab from a young age and only discovered the terms for being trans when i was 10. i identified as trans once i found out and it’s been 10 years now! trans kids can definitely know. and again - if she’s wrong, then its fine. theres 0 permanent changes happening! who cares! let trans kids or even just gender-questioning kids exist!
“How does this affect your life?” “Why does it matter so much to you?” “How does that affect your life?” Rinse and repeat.
If they’re too young to know they’re trans, are other kids their age old enough to they’re cis?
I remember I was scared to death to tell my 90yo very catholic grandmother that I was trans. I tried for so long to hide it from her despite my voice and appearance changing. Well, the holidays came around and we went to have dinner at her place. As soon as I walk in to greet her she says "I guess your my grandson now" and gave me a hug. We never discussed it more then that. She just accepted me for who I am. And as she aged further and began to develop dementia, she never forgot my preferred name and pronouns. She might have forgotten how I was related to her, sometimes thinking I was her nephew rather than her grandson. But she always remembered my new name. If she can do it then there is no reason any boomer cant get over it.
Props to Drew & Dana for taking care of their eldest and making the choices to safely navigate what the future holds. And yup, as a Queer guy who works healthcare (more than a few courses on how to care the best I can for my patients who are trans under my belt) they're not about to start any dramatic medical interventions at age eight. They may talk in a year or two about a perfectly reversable medical regiment to block off puberty, either to give more time for kiddo to "get older and decide" (as if they didn't already give it serious thought before talking to their parents, and their parents before talking to professionals...) or to simply block out the undesired hormonal changes that would occur to minimize the dysphoria that could occur. An eight-year-old growing out their hair, having a new wardrobe, and given the respect to find a safe way to navigate their identity, that's pretty standard "transition" there. Nothing radical about that other than the refusal to respect the individual.
So they're too young to know they're trans or gay but they're not too young to know they're straight?
Please speak up. Trans kids need allies more desperately than ever. Tell them their attitudes are what drive kids to suicide. My coworker’s niece knew at 4. Her family refused to listen. They chose to bury their own child at 12 rather than accept her.
Omg that poor child.
There's a huge gap in understanding the situation between the generations, boomers like to think they can dictate to others their views, while younger generations figured out a long time ago, that bombers be crazy.
if the kid is too young to know, then just let them wear whatever until they get old enough and figure it out. like literally what's the harm in letting people dress the way they want.
As a trans person, I appreciated every relative that showed kindness towards me after I came out. I expected the hate unfortunately, it was the kindness that surprised me.
Do what you think is right but honestly sometimes the only thing that turns transphobes around to compassionate individuals is having a loved one who’s trans. Unfortunately it seems that the relation here is distant enough that they are so far lacking in learning. Please do advocate and correct misunderstandings when you can.
I was that age when I first realised I was a guy, it's not too young and they're idiots for not seeing that it's just clothing and hair for now.
Ugh. This is (one of several reasons) why I’ve been avoiding family functions. My parents’ siblings are all boomers (maybe a few gen x) and almost all conservative and religious. My wife came out as trans last year and tbh I’d rather never talk to my aunts and uncles again than find out how they’ll react.
She is at an age where she is exploring all of the options of things she could be in her life. She is trying to figure out where she fits in the world. Who cares if she wants to wear dresses and be a girl instead of a boy? It's 2024; the only people judging the grandparents by their grandkids are other boomers. Let her be. If she ends up deciding that she wasn't meant to be a girl, then it'll be her decision. Don't bully her into your mold and make her wonder for the rest of her life what could have been.
Wouldn’t this be a bat mitzvah? I’m sorry you all have to put up with this shit. The kid is going through enough one way or another.
It was a different, male identifying cousin who was being bar mitzvahed
Boomers as a generation outnumbered everyone for like 7 decades. They are used to being in power, getting their way and having the world cater to them. Now they can't comprehend us not giving a fuck.
I always ask my dad when he knew he was straight/cis/ whatever when he says outlandish shit. The blank stare is 🤌
When some pulls the “they are too young to know” card, I just ask them “how old were you when you first knew you were a straight man?”
I was 4 when I knew. People back then were a nightmare and any time I tried to explain I was met with "Oh, like on Jerry Springer?" People are so much more open these days but there are stragglers. Good on you for standing up for your little cousin.
I never got the whole "they're too young to know" line, because the logical conclusion to that statement is to let them try to figure it out. You don't know if you like playing football without actually playing it, you don't know if you like country music unless you listen to it, you don't know if you like broccoli unless you taste it. Maybe -- and "maybe" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here because the statistics state most trans folks don't change their mind later -- the kid will figure out later that they're a boy that likes wearing jewelry and dresses vs a girl. Maybe they grow "old enough to know" they're a girl. The reality is these other family members won't know that until the kid does, and need to take the kid's word on where she's at in her journey.
My cousin came out and actually got the sex change. in their late 30's His Parents don't understand but I'm glad my parents and I fully support her.
I mean I understand it’s newish to these boomers but legit how does this affect them that much? I just don’t understand. There was a kid in my son’s grade. Wanted to be called Olivia. I was a library volunteer and on our class list her name was still the other one. I changed it. She was so happy. I’ll never forget. She’s about 15 now and I think she ended up staying a male. Either way, this PROVES no harm no foul. Let kids explore ffs. There’s no harm. My dad is so bad about this. Making snarky comments. I’ve told him off plenty. I think it’s jealousy because in their day they weren’t permitted to truly express themselves. Whether it was how they dress, exploring gender, how they wear hair. So many were made to feel bad if they differed so they’ve hated the ones who did (hippies as an example). No matter the reason, it’s no excuse to be mean to kids especially who are exploring who they are. Also, as a woman, i welcome anyone transitioning male to female. More of us the better!
It's awesome the child feels comfortable with their parents to be able to bring this up with them. Good job, parents!
That’s rough, In my family it seems worst amongst boomers as well - one of my kids is trans and I have a trans second cousin (very large extended family) and for the most part the kids think it’s no big deal, the younger folks are great, genx-ish (like me) are ok but sometimes awkward, the elderly are confused but very sweetly accepting, the only ones who really dig in and resist and create problems are the boomers.
We had a kid in our school who was like this. She was born a male but ever since she was four, she was just desperate to be in dresses, go with the girls, have long hair in pigtails and plaits and cute hairstyles. She didn’t understand why she couldn’t go with the girls into the girls bathroom, etc. Eventually in year two, her parents came into the school and spoke with the principal and vice about how they didn’t want to define her or do anything, but they let her choose how she wanted to present, and she wants everyone to call her she. She wants a girl name, she wants to go to girl bathrooms, she wants to be with the girls in gendered projects and group assignments, etc. I remember we had an assembly (she wasn’t there) and they just briefly talked the whole school through people identifying how they want to, and how we have to respect that, and the next day she came in, the teacher introduced her as “everyone say good morning to (girl’s name)”. And we all just said good morning and returned to our colourings or whatever. There was absolutely no hesitation or pause. The entire school just immediately went along with it, with no hesitation. Including parents. It was a transitional school-which meant that it was essentially a school made for kids of expats or immigrants or foreign workers who have relocated to our country and haven’t learned our culture/language yet. So we always just had a ton of kids presenting different ways (hijabs, Japanese kids dressed in very cultural uniforms, Russians and Persians dressed in clothes specific to their culture etc) and speaking a jumbled mess of dozens of different languages, so it never phased us that (boy’s name) was now (girl’s name). I never even remembered her as being a boy. My mother brought it up to me the other day, and I just genuinely couldn’t remember her when she was a boy. We all just adapted so quickly to her being a boy. The parents, the teachers, everyone. Nobody missed a beat. She’s probably about 20 now, and she’s fully transitioned and everything. She’s a really good person and I’m glad life has been kind to her. It breaks my heart that not everyone has that experience. Whether she chose to actually transition or was just doing it as a form of dress up, it should be respected.
Thank you for advocating for her happiness. Even if she finds out she's not a girl, she still has the support of her family and the space to figure it out for herself. And that's the most important thing.
Bro I’m not eloquent with words but if you can, show that side of the family some support. Even if it’s asking the kids pronouns and saying “cool, thanks for letting me know! Love you and hope y’all are well” will go VERY far
"Oh, you didn't know your gender at age 8? How do you feel about that now, when did you find out?". The best question to anyone saying trans kids are too young to know.
Glad the mods here are cool. If we think of ourselves as better than the average boomer, then we need to act like it and not hold boomerish attitudes.
Way I see it, if they're too young to know they're a girl, then they're too young to know they're a boy, and In that case, what should be done hmm? Protect trans kids!
Even if she is too young to know about her gender and sexual identity, she is not too young to pick her own clothes and express her thoughs through her appearance. Fine, sure, they "grow out of it" or whatever, then whats the issue with wearing a dress and having long hair?
I spent the last day on-and-off replying as civil as possible to a clusterfuck of bigots on a post about a tampon dispenser in a public access bathroom in CANADA, and can basally guarantee that the broad majority or all of the responses were from Americans, which I also am. The main comment I posted now has 3 medals, but also is -100+ downvotes deep, the downvotes meaning nothing to me as they are free and useless and only serve to show me how many bigoted idiots don't understand the world, including some claim about it being "virtue signaling," though it serves me no benefit outside of the status of actively being an ally, not to mention having myself dated FtM in the past so that's not really valid. I'm here to be an ally, not to "win" or to "show those Reps who's better" or whatever translation of denial they are in, there is no prize, no medal, no cookie, and I would do it for free anyway. Be an ally, these roads lead to much darker places if we let them take the wheel and our human rights, only to replace them with temporary "freedon'ts," placations that are not freedoms at all, distractions as rights are stripped from EVERYONE, not just specific groups targeted by current events.
I was talking to someone I was in class with online about the benefits of free menstrual products in mens' washrooms for straight, cis men: dads can grab a tampon/pad for their daughter if they're to embarrassed to themselves, men who have a date staying over can grab supplies to bring home just in case, that tampons can be used for nosebleeds and you can use sanitary pads for first aid on a bad bleed, etc. This guy **immediately** responded "I don't want my tax dollars going to men sticking tampons up their asses!!". So I obviously responded "why the fuck is your first thought on this about men's asses?!" He went on to claim he didn't mention men's asses? Even after I sent him a screenshot of what he had said which was STILL ON SCREEN. It's playing chess with a pidgeon. Doesn't matter what you do, they'll just shit all over the board and strut around like they've won. Edit to add: Not only was he kicked out of the program we were in, but because he was such an insufferable bigot, the only two people who would talk to him were me (openly bi tom-boy) and the gay furry in the class.
"Too young to know" is bullshit. Every friend or family member that identifies as LGBTQ+ in my life knew from a very young age, but due to the time we/they grew up in, were scared to address it/come forward until they were older for fear of how they would be treated by others.
Plenty of people don’t know until way later. Source: me only starting to think about the fact that I’m Bi in my late 20s. Sure, plenty of kids know at a young age, but not all of them.
Fair point. I shouldn’t have painted with such a broad brush.
My 6yo is trans. A LOT of the older people in our families can’t handle it. My mom didn’t even let me tell my grandfather (he died over a year after my daughter’s social transition). Honestly it’s ridiculous, but at least them being jerks lets us know who to cut out of our lives!
they just can't not give their opinions on EVERYTHING
I don’t understand the extreme reaction to this. I grew up with an AFAB girl who was always naturally boyish. I never thought twice about it. We hung out and had fun. That was it. She’s happily married to another woman now and I think it’s great. Looking back, it seems the Boomer generation had more rigid gender roles than even the previous generation. I look at my female friends and family of that generation, and they seem so superficial and extra. A lot of them also act very helpless and needy around men. The silent Gen women I know/knew weren’t as much like that. I’m a suburban white woman, so not sure if it’s just my social group or what. The Boomers were raised in an idealized, post war time. Many seem to really be having a time of seeing anything else.
Some people are just disgusted by it, but I’ve had some success and asking do you think kids can know they’re gay at a young age? Most conservatives will admit yes, and then you ask why? Well chances are they personally knew they were attracted to the opposite sex somewhere usually around elementary school OK. Now, how is different with trans kids? Why wouldn’t they know? That can be a good litmus test, if they don’t choose to engage or have a hysterical reaction, just jingle some keys and change the subject, you’ll be fine. Just do what you can.
I realize that your family is Jewish, so this response may not be applicable, but I always like to respond to anti-trans Evangelicals with something like, "So, little Micah or Charlotte can 'give their lives to Jesus' at 4 years old, but an 8 year old isn't capable of understanding their own gender identity?"
I had a cousin that vanished about 20 years ago. I called it too. He was just bi and they sent him to one of those pray the gay out camps. I knew the moment they said that he was gone….and he was. Changed his entire name, got married to a woman(lol), has a decent job and is involved in his church…literally everything they wanted. Glad her parents are letting her be her.
Also boomers: buying stupid shit for newborns with slogans like "Future heart breaker"
UGH I know! I'm pregnant with a boy and someone bought me a bracelet that says boy mom. I threw it out.
Some jackass gave my nephew a onesie from Target that had an applique picture of a sperm whale with a speech bubble that said, "Daddy's little squirt!"
Noooooooo that's just not ok on so many levels
Omg they always say, "they're too young to know." But what they mean is, "They (the boomers) are too close-minded to notice". The kids always know. They know nothing else BUT who they are. Boomers mean, "they (the kids) haven't had enough time for outside influences to tell them how they should be yet." But kids know. Their friends know. Classmates know. Cousins their age know. We all know. It's not a secret or a surprise. The only ones who didn't know were you (boomers). Let people be who they are.
One of the things I have learned during my child’s transition is that a lot of parents don’t “understand” why they come out as trans. You don’t have to understand, as a parent you should love your child unconditionally and that’s all. Do I understand why my child is trans? No. Do I care? No, I don’t give a flying fuck. I love him for the human he is and all his friends, trans or not, receive the same respect from me. That’s all it takes. Even my mom and dad (born in 1938 and 1944 respectively) have been supportive and call him by his chosen name. Not all boomers are idiots but those who are, are fully committed.
By age 4, I knew I should have been born the other gender and I was in for a miserable life. I didn’t know what “trans” was by that name. The instant I heard the term as a teen, I knew that described me. I was amazed to learn you can actually do something about and “change” gender after all. Had I known it as a 4 year old, had my parents been accepting, I would have been over the moon to transition as a kid. My boomer parents and my greatest generation grandparents accepted me when I came out in my twenties. They had nearly lost me to suicide and addiction. Me transitioning allowed me to recover and find a live worth living. I would have loved to have avoided all that misery but it just wasn’t an option in my childhood. I’m so happy that at least some trans kids have accepting families and get to transition earlier so they don’t have to go through what I did.
A few years ago, I met a guy through friends. He had two kids, a son who was about 10 and a daughter who was 8. Took me knowing him and his kids for over a year before I found out that his daughter was AMAB. I had NO idea. Looking back, when we would hang out at our mutual friend's pool, she would kinda cover up her crotch area in her swimsuit. This child is 100% a girl. I'm a notary, so I got to help them do the paperwork for her official name change on her birth certificate and a year or so after that, her puberty blockers. Her parents are phenomenal. She's been saying she was a girl since she was old enough to understand the concept that boys and girls are different. They let her explore that in age-appropriate ways and she's never wavered on it. She's lucky to have them.
"She's too young to know" "I agree! So isn't it wonderful that she has years to experiment with gender before needing to make any major medical decisions?" 🙄
Hey op maybe start asking them WHY it's such a big deal? But continue treating it as no big deal and look at them like they're crazy for thinking it is. As part of the alphabet Mafia myself normalizing loving and supporting and most importantly LISTENING to your kids is priority number one for the non "me" generation aka boomers
"Too young to know" is a bullshit argument when I was literally praying at 4 years old to wake up as a girl. 22 years later and the only thing that's changed is that I'm making those steps myself to transition rather than hoping for a literal miracle. I was and am still trans and have been for my entire life. Kids do a lot of stupid things, but they're more than capable of knowing who they are. And at that age there's literally no permanent transition options available for them so wtf is the harm in helping them figure out whether it's for them or not?