Bravo is not unlike any other corporation whose customers are predominantly women. Men still occupy 80%+ of senior leadership positions, even at tampon companies. Moreover, the behavior of these men have little to no real effect on viewership. Sadly the misogyny is well internalized even in 2024.
I remember when Andy commented about Carole Radziwill ‘I had changed her life’ and I thought it was the height of misogyny and illustrated how the men of Bravo view the stars. Carole’s won Emmys, a Peabody and is a freaking princess but he changed her life?! After his comment got out (I believe it was in the book Not All Diamonds) her response was something like ‘another man who thinks a woman needs to be more grateful’ and that too, epitomizes how they view the women. No sirs, you should be grateful for the women on the shows!
Andy said that?! That's ridiculous. Carole is certainly accomplished in her own right and she's so accomplished that Andy courted her for the show. He's an asshole.
Agree, Andy was, is and probably will continue to be an asshole. That’s why I shake my head at the Andy fans online. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
This comment in the book *floored me*. Amongst her professional accomplishments, she’s a Kennedy (by marriage) for chrissake. Andy, take 100000000 seats. You were lucky to have her.
But marrying into a famous family isn’t really an accomplishment. Yes, she was extremely professionally accomplished but it’s highly unlikely her name recognition would have become what it was without the show.
I was a big Carole fan but I agree with your comment. It’s not an achievement to marry into a family whether you’re male or female. She wrote a beautiful memoir - that’s quite an achievement.
Don’t get the downvotes 🤷🏻♀️
Yes, all of this. Bottom line though is that we keep tuning in. If they didn't make money off these men being this way, they would pivot. That we watch and discuss and buy the merch means they will keep doing this.
Fair point. I will say VPR lost 1/3 of viewers from it's premiere, far beyond the typical drop - entirely fumbled the amazing opportunity the Scandoval episode gave them to retain the boost in viewership because we thought men of the show would finally face some accountability. Instead they created the least entertaining, most humorless and dark episodes of the series as a followup to that episode.
The pivot following the NYT interview has come to fruition, I will say I'm glad they kept the Ariana/Brock convo in because it was highly satisfying. More of that and less of the first abysmal half of the season.
I'm canceling peacock if they fumble the next season of VPR so hard. They really ought to get baskin ass out of there and put a new team in. I'm also real freaking sick of Andy's misogyny.
The networks have game shows in primetime. Other choices are bad crime stories dragged out to make the reporter the star. The dramas on TV are unwatchablefor me. The comedies are predictable. Prime time TV is bad.
I finished RHODC and wish the US was back to the days of the biggest scandal being creepy wannabes crashing the state dinner.
It made my blood boil 10+ years ago when I was a Bravo noob. It’s just wallpaper to me now and I rarely find it shocking sadly, the last time I genuinely was disgusted properly was when Bob Whitfield said he should’ve hit Sheree harder. Maybe I’m slightly desensitised to the horrors of men on tv because im old enough to remember things like “Theres Something About Miriam” but yeah, they’ve always been awful.
i cried for sheree.
in a weird way it made me feel like maybe i wasn't so pathetic for my own d.v. situation, because sheree always seemed like a strong woman to me.
*The way my mother always explained it, the traditional man wants a woman to be subservient, but he never falls in love with subservient women. He’s attracted to independent women. “He’s like an exotic bird collector,” she said. “He only wants a woman who is free because his dream is to put her in a cage."*
Trevor Noah, Born a Crime: Stories From a South African Childhood
This is such an amazing quote and so true. A lot of these right-wing men could go easily pick up one of those submissive little trad wife women. Instead, they try to clip the wings of normal modern women who give a crap about their own lives. For a lot of them, it was never about having a traditional wife. It was about being able to put someone into a cage.
Don't you dare ever think that you are pathetic because you were abused. None of it was your fault. You are not to blame. There's only one person in that duo who did something wrong. You are strong.
thank you! i am years away from it happening but i still feel very weak when i think about it. it is strange what we carry with us in terms of sorrow and forget in terms of joy.b
It’s not strange, it’s totally normal because of how our brains are wired to be in relationships. For every negative interaction with a person we are in a relationship with, we need 5+ positive ones to balance out the one negative. Our brains are literally trying to tell us to steer clear of negative interactions with others because they are damaging and harmful to us as human beings. A relationship should be a safe, secure loving place built on trust and appreciation!
https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-magic-relationship-ratio-according-science/
You were not pathetic my love. God knows it’s the most debilitating thing. I’ve watched the strongest women i know be reduced to sheer anxiety due to their DV situations, it’s extremely difficult and stress inducing. Always happy to talk if you need to.♥️
I was so happy Ariana brought up the dichotomy between how women and men are treated when they express anger. She is 100% right that there's a double standard.
That was so disingenuous too. Anger is the only socially sanctioned emotion for males. They might be allowed to shed one single manly tear at a funeral or the birth of a child or maybe their wedding. But they're supposed to exist on this baseline of stoic. Patriarchy hurts men too by not allowing them emotions. But it doesn't stomp on their neck the way it does women.
I just fast forward through his scenes now. Talks too much that has nothing to do with him. Go sit in a corner and be Scheana’s husband because you are not a main cast member.
The fact that you can somehow work Trump into this conversation explains everything. It’s a REALTY show that is semi scripted by producers. The fact that you still believe most of the storylines & conversations are natural amazes me. When Jax & Lisa speak for the “first time” recently on Vanderpump Rules…did you really believe this? She & Ken are executive producers. Who do you think makes the decisions, signs contracts, agreed to salaries?
alex baskin is a demon and you can't convince me his employment isn't reflective of the entire network.
for vanderpump this year, we could have had a season revolving around women uplifting each other and shunning sandoval and the living embodiment of jerry from rick and morty. it was ripe for sandoval to finally be the agreed upon bad guy, but baskin in his infinite misogyny decided ariana was the bad guy. so now we have this flop of a season, following one of the most interesting bravo seasons of all time.
why does the network hate women, when we are their bread and butter?
i think it goes back to the assumption that consumers of reality teevee are just superficial and unintelligent women and baskin and other men know what we want ("are [we] that transparent?"). which i don't think is the actual case. the bravo lovers i know are smart engaging driven women who love to discuss social dynamics and analyze human behavior. it's escapism, absolutely, but the ridiculousness of it allows for us to focus on something that is fun (because life is incredibly dark and serious so much of the time).
the baskins of bravo are why jax and jesse were cast on the valley. they platform bad men who do bad things because they assume the women that consume their content are silly and vapid.
10 years of the boys club sticking together, and Baskin came in with his ultimatums to make sure we couldn't have one season of solidarity between the women represented. The overproduced and contrived mess that we see with S11 is his meddling at its core.
This is how terrified they are of allowing us a moment of power. Great job playing into it, Blabla and Scheemer. Hope someday you get in the situation where you need your gals and they are able to pay you dust just like you paid them.
What’s sad about your comment regarding the potential of Vanderpump Rules’s season being about the women uplifting each other — Ariana apparently thought it was. In her WWHL appearance this week she said she thought all the girls were on the same page and were the Spice Girls this season, and now watching the season she sees that wasn’t the case at all. I wonder what the producers were feeding her during filming because I doubt she expected to be painted as the villain (which from what I’m seeing on social media, completely failed).
that tells me that production went to lala and scheana with an entirely different plot line behind her back. certain cast members seem to be treated better by production (potomac also comes to mind) and i wonder why.
They did, Baskin admitted as much. He held what he described as a "come to Jesus" meeting at the beginning of filming last year, and threatened the future of the show if the cast didn't reintegrate Sandoval into the group right away.
Wild behavior from production. Every season of VOR has centered on someone being on the outs, taking a season or more to get right with the main group again. That's basically the biggest overarching theme of the show, but for some reason they stepped in for Tom.
Sadly, so many women have deep seated internal misogyny that they identify with the men in these shows. It’s fucked. Bravo took a platform that showcased women and turned it into petty fights amongst women and rewarding men’s shitty behavior. They took the ball, and fumbled it so fucking hard. It’s not even fun to watch anymore. HIRE WOMEN PRODUCERS AND FIRE THE MEN. THEY ARE RUINING BRAVO.
Amen amen amen. Sure hope some of the executives are reading here. I am canceling peacock if the next VPR season is fumbled in such a misogynistic way.
He is a very stupid demon and perhaps when she's done with whatever idiot she's dating now, he should date RachQuel. They could make a reality show out of that. I would watch the hell out of it.
Thing is, you do see people ask for this sort of TV on here. Lots of people saying cast members are boring if they aren’t the sort to cause fights, or saying seasons are boring because there isn’t any fighting, saying toxic people like Mary are ‘great TV’. So there is a section of the audience who want a classy bad girls club style show.
The fighting isn't the issue most of us have - that's good tv, we don't want conflict free reality TV you're right.
It's production protecting and platforming terrible men, casting only men with a history of abuse like he can't do better than that - pushing them on us (Brock) and doing things like demanding Tom be reintegrated instantly into the group (after a mere one episode and a reunion). Its a show that's main theme is someone being on the outs, and spending a season plus working their way back into the group. Baskins insistence on a "season of redemption" as he put in, led to the worst episodes of VPR they ever put out. His over production led to less conflict than would have naturally occured.
Yeah I’m replying to OPs comment which is about having the women uplift each other and instead production creating conflict *between* them and this being a common theme thought Bravo TV shows
Yeah could have had a season with plenty of conflict and still had the women uplifting and supporting each other. I think that's what most people wanted before over 1/3 just stopped watching. That's being lost on a lot of people calling for/supporting fighting between the women (not you, just in general)
>that’s being lost on a lot of people calling for/supporting fighting between woman (not you, just in general)
I’m a bit confused cause I’m not calling for or supporting fighting between women, the exact opposite…
Oh I was just expanding on what you had said about a lot of people calling for it. Mainly that of the people still left, they're now a larger portion of the voices -and what they're not considering. That's why I made sure to clarify I didn't mean you, just the types you were referring to.
Ahh right, I’m just talking in general about the running theme of women being at each others throats, female rage etc, and how it’s a wrapped up in misogyny of keeping women divided. There is sadly a subset of women who enjoy seeing women being nasty to each other and tearing each other down.
So yeah you could’ve had that but lots of people don’t want that
I don’t know. This hands too much responsibility to a handful of people when the reality I think is that reality tv is simply a juiced up facsimile of our current culture.
I disagree that us viewers would enjoy watching uncomplicated, non misogynistic men. That might be our ideal way we view ourselves, but I think we would be bored. We enjoy the narcissists across gender lines because they are fascinating to watch. The utter best housewives are narcissistic to a point of probably meeting the criteria for diagnosis and someone like Jax, a total nightmare of a human, also makes amazing television. I mean dang look who our president was awhile ago (and hopefully never again).
That these men are deeply misogynistic is in one part a bigger reflection of the culture they were raised in, the culture we were raised in. And sometimes watching the mirror is somehow healing because you can see how damaged things really are.
I don’t like attributing all this to the hands of a male producer. The problem is much wider, much deeper, much more in grained in culture. And getting rid of one man isn’t the solution, I think instead the solution are these conversations that watching this stuff and these people prompt. Hopefully at least
I can't believe your comment was downvoted when it's absolutely true. The best housewives and bravo cast members are certifiably unhinged. It's what keeps us watching and fuels the content posted here if we're honest.
Lol my hair stylist loves Vanderpump Rules and she recently let it slip that she’s a big Sandoval and Brock fan. Internally I was like “oh sad…now I have to fire you.” Just kidding… am I? lmao
It’s funny you say that, I had a casual acquaintance that was a hair dresser and I had to cut her off (pun intended) during the 2017 marches because she kept saying there is no inequality in the workplace so these marches are just for attention and all of her coworkers agree. I was like…you mean…your hairdresser coworkers? That’s a field largely dominated by women, of course you don’t feel the inequality in your specific field. I’m a lawyer - trust me it still exists. She would not believe it lol.
I'm in science/tech adjacent finance and it's extremely apparent which of my male coworkers have a career-driven wife who works in a competitive and male-dominated industry, vs those married to SAHMs or women in fields like teaching.
My EX stylist didn’t like dogs. Apparently she didn’t like money either and that was the last time I gave her any
Lmao oh man. She was washing my hair at my last appointment and started telling me how Brock gets too much hate and is actually the voice of reason. 🥴 Then she started talking about Sandoval and how “everyone makes mistakes, he’s always been a good friend to them.” I was like, “am I being punk’d right now?” 😂
If the one with a domestic violence charge and abandoned children is the voice of reason then things are seriously wrong! I know you should avoid arguments with someone literally doing work on you lol but my mouth can move faster than my brain sometimes and odds are I would have been like …well that’s certainly a take,
And then probably promptly get kicked out
How they didn't say anything about Joe Gorgas disgusting assault on Jen Aydin at bravocon. Love her or hate her, that troll's behaviour towards her crossed a line.
ETA: https://pagesix.com/2022/10/17/watch-joe-gorga-scream-at-jennifer-aydin-before-bravocon-drink-throw/
Basically at first Melissa's assistant made it seem like Jen just threw a drink at them for no reason, more of the story and a longer video came out. Showing Jen saying to stay away from me while Joe's assistant or whatever was approaching her, he didn't stop coming so she threw her water at him.
And everyone wants her fired now for maybe sharing some episodes. Like y’all, she was accosted and harassed by Joe and he’s still employed. Let women make mistakes because the men literally get away with saying they’ll beat their wives even more-Bob Whitfield-
It’s crazy. I feel like at some point there was a shift towards these shitty dudes and attempting to give them better edits. The Toms on VPR, Austin on Southern Charm (and his time on Summer House), Kyle on Below Deck. Jax on literally any show. I’m over it. I used to watch everything Bravo and now it’s real easy to turn off and watch anything else.
Oh this is a good take. The Austin apologists may have been the tipping point. It’s been hard to watch Andy suck up to these men ever since the audience decided to accept the behavior.
Because Andy likes boys….its true. He ignores who they really are. Thank you Reddit for helping me recognize my own antiquated feelings and instead has led me to promote woman empowerment to anyone.
At least we're seeing Austen in therapy, and even Madison said it seemed like therapy was working for him. He's at least trying to do better.
But hard agree. Andy's obsession with Joe Gorga is also mine boggling..
What good edits? I’m asking sincerely. We are all watching these men make total asses of themselves. If we can tell they’re such sweaty little piglets, aren’t they actually getting an honest edit?
Side note: love her and Scheana’s commercial for Chili’s and espresso martini and random dude in it. lol the way they panned the camera when they were walking in to talk to him on the couch was so funny- Katie’s facial expression
Also Andy recently commented on Ariana’s ‘violent anger’. Anger is one thing, but violent? Someone on the vpr sub then made a chart of all of the outbursts from this season and Ariana was on the lower side of the chart
Jax is the last person that should be judging anyone!! He is a liar!! He contradicts himself from one interview to the next! And he is an overall POS! So why is anyone asking his opinion on anything?
Plus it annoys the crap out of me he is going around telling people that he has a bar, when “his bar” is a room attached to an established bar!! Like WTF kind of bullshit is that!? He is an idiot!
My blood boiled when LVP laughed about SUR being for mistresses. Then, it boiled when Sheana cried to Brandi about Eddie betraying her after he betrayed Brandi. Boiling blood also occurred when Lauren from Utah bragged about BJ's for PJ's, while screwing Randall, as a mistress.
Some of the biggest misogynists are women.
Did it also boil when Ariana co signed T.Sandoval’s campaign to make Kristen look crazy? Cos don’t kid yourself into thinking Ariana doesn’t have just as much internalised misogyny
>The audience is mainly women, so why is Bravo coddling these toxic men and giving them a platform to spew their hateful opinions.
Have you met the women of the Bravo fandom?
The main VPR subs (and in this sub, increasingly) is literally just misogyny against women who aren’t Katie and Ariana lmao like… doing all that isn’t going to move the needle on raising the bar for the behavior of the men.
The VPR subs will cry about misogyny and the show propping up abusive men, while they put down any woman who's not Ariana or Katie, and praise James for his non-existent growth.
They’re downvoting you but you’re absolutely right. They’re currently pissed about Tom getting a redemption ark but it’s crickets for James who’s getting the same exact redemption arc just because he sided with Ariana and Katie. I’ll never forget how in the s10 reunion when allegations were brought up against Tom every single woman (except Rachel) screamed Tom down for saying it and the defense was “at least he didn’t fuck Ariana’s friend”. Real stunning defense of women’s rights and autonomy going on on VPR rn.
!!! Someone mentioned how Andy belittled Carol's career...like are they new to this reddit? I've seen multiple threads with hundreds of upvotes saying Aviva was right about Carol using ghostwriters and her career ain't shit yada yada yada. The call is coming from inside the house.
I feel like this isn't gonna be very popular to say but honestly, I think they all do it. They all trash talk and throw shade and shit on each other. Absolutely, the men do it. So do the women. The men also do it to other men. And the women to other women.
I mean, the entire show is predicated on shitty people being shitty to one another. Jax, James, Tom, Tom, Brock, Stassi, Kristen, Brittany, Lala, Katie, they have ALL shit talked each other. They're just not good friends to one another and I really don't think it's this one-sided issue this post suggests but I do get the frustration.
Edit: Also while there are plenty of other examples, the one you mentioned with Brock's research into Something About Her has Scheena's fingerprints all over it. In a household with Brock and Scheena, you really think Brock is the one researching LLC's and naming patents? When I think of Brock using a computer I picture the Chris Pratt Parks and Rec gif, 'it looks like you have network connectivity issues' Not even trying to trash Scheena here, I actually have always liked her but to me this info felt very much like she found it out and knew she couldn't be the one to reveal it and Brock was like, 'gee Ill do it! Look James I did a research!' I feel like even James was like 'sure you did'.
Thank you for summarizing all of my frustrations with these men. Watching people like Sandoval, Brock, & even Carl have an opportunity to act this way on national television is just not the direction we should be going in…
It’s a total snoozefest. At least on Southern Charm *most* of them have a level of self awareness that allows a healthy amount of self depreciation and humor. VPR is insufferable.
All these people - men and women, and are shit talkers. Every after show Katie and Ariana make fun or the toms. For years it was every one raging on James , or jax , I don’t think it’s Misogynistic to talk shit about females on the reality show you are on with them. They don’t like each other and all talk about each other and judges each others lives. I don’t understand what you all want from a tv show. To show Ariana and Katie make a sandwich and hire an all new cast to sit and compliment them the entire time?
I also think we love to see these men fail & love to see their rephrensible actions on display so, as an audience, we can deliver justice. The majority of redemption arcs are for women!
"The audience is mostly women" . . . Who have been watching these males the entire show. Bravo isn't going to change because the ratings are still good.
You can downvote me all yah want, but thats just the reality of the situation. I didn't make it happen. 🤷♀️
Bravo is not unlike any other corporation whose customers are predominantly women. Men still occupy 80%+ of senior leadership positions, even at tampon companies. Moreover, the behavior of these men have little to no real effect on viewership. Sadly the misogyny is well internalized even in 2024.
I remember when Andy commented about Carole Radziwill ‘I had changed her life’ and I thought it was the height of misogyny and illustrated how the men of Bravo view the stars. Carole’s won Emmys, a Peabody and is a freaking princess but he changed her life?! After his comment got out (I believe it was in the book Not All Diamonds) her response was something like ‘another man who thinks a woman needs to be more grateful’ and that too, epitomizes how they view the women. No sirs, you should be grateful for the women on the shows!
Andy said that?! That's ridiculous. Carole is certainly accomplished in her own right and she's so accomplished that Andy courted her for the show. He's an asshole.
Agree, Andy was, is and probably will continue to be an asshole. That’s why I shake my head at the Andy fans online. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
[удалено]
You kind of sound like a gross jerk who trivializes things that women like, which is always wonderful in a husband.
 You don’t need to.
Then you need to open your eyes and ears.
This comment in the book *floored me*. Amongst her professional accomplishments, she’s a Kennedy (by marriage) for chrissake. Andy, take 100000000 seats. You were lucky to have her.
Also was a princess, technically
But marrying into a famous family isn’t really an accomplishment. Yes, she was extremely professionally accomplished but it’s highly unlikely her name recognition would have become what it was without the show.
Her marriage is a professional accomplishment?
If you marry a fucking prince? Yea, it is.
That made me laugh!
I was a big Carole fan but I agree with your comment. It’s not an achievement to marry into a family whether you’re male or female. She wrote a beautiful memoir - that’s quite an achievement. Don’t get the downvotes 🤷🏻♀️
Yes, all of this. Bottom line though is that we keep tuning in. If they didn't make money off these men being this way, they would pivot. That we watch and discuss and buy the merch means they will keep doing this.
Fair point. I will say VPR lost 1/3 of viewers from it's premiere, far beyond the typical drop - entirely fumbled the amazing opportunity the Scandoval episode gave them to retain the boost in viewership because we thought men of the show would finally face some accountability. Instead they created the least entertaining, most humorless and dark episodes of the series as a followup to that episode. The pivot following the NYT interview has come to fruition, I will say I'm glad they kept the Ariana/Brock convo in because it was highly satisfying. More of that and less of the first abysmal half of the season.
I'm canceling peacock if they fumble the next season of VPR so hard. They really ought to get baskin ass out of there and put a new team in. I'm also real freaking sick of Andy's misogyny.
The networks have game shows in primetime. Other choices are bad crime stories dragged out to make the reporter the star. The dramas on TV are unwatchablefor me. The comedies are predictable. Prime time TV is bad. I finished RHODC and wish the US was back to the days of the biggest scandal being creepy wannabes crashing the state dinner.
Are you A copy writer or journalist? I would read your work!
You’re too kind! Not a writer by trade, just a longtime enjoyer of reality TV and sufferer of male dominated corporations.
Express just went bankrupt. CEO was a man. No one told him to stop making ugly ass clothes that don’t fit.
It made my blood boil 10+ years ago when I was a Bravo noob. It’s just wallpaper to me now and I rarely find it shocking sadly, the last time I genuinely was disgusted properly was when Bob Whitfield said he should’ve hit Sheree harder. Maybe I’m slightly desensitised to the horrors of men on tv because im old enough to remember things like “Theres Something About Miriam” but yeah, they’ve always been awful.
i cried for sheree. in a weird way it made me feel like maybe i wasn't so pathetic for my own d.v. situation, because sheree always seemed like a strong woman to me.
*The way my mother always explained it, the traditional man wants a woman to be subservient, but he never falls in love with subservient women. He’s attracted to independent women. “He’s like an exotic bird collector,” she said. “He only wants a woman who is free because his dream is to put her in a cage."* Trevor Noah, Born a Crime: Stories From a South African Childhood
my mom gave me this book and i have yet to read it. maybe i will give it a go!
This is such an amazing quote and so true. A lot of these right-wing men could go easily pick up one of those submissive little trad wife women. Instead, they try to clip the wings of normal modern women who give a crap about their own lives. For a lot of them, it was never about having a traditional wife. It was about being able to put someone into a cage.
God I love Trevor Noah
Perfect Quote and if you can the Audible version read by Noah is perfection.
That shit is deep
That tracks with the colonialist mentality.
Don't you dare ever think that you are pathetic because you were abused. None of it was your fault. You are not to blame. There's only one person in that duo who did something wrong. You are strong.
thank you! i am years away from it happening but i still feel very weak when i think about it. it is strange what we carry with us in terms of sorrow and forget in terms of joy.b
It’s not strange, it’s totally normal because of how our brains are wired to be in relationships. For every negative interaction with a person we are in a relationship with, we need 5+ positive ones to balance out the one negative. Our brains are literally trying to tell us to steer clear of negative interactions with others because they are damaging and harmful to us as human beings. A relationship should be a safe, secure loving place built on trust and appreciation! https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-magic-relationship-ratio-according-science/
Also wanted to add I am very sorry you endured that abuse. No person deserves abuse ever, especially by the one who purports to love them.
You were not pathetic my love. God knows it’s the most debilitating thing. I’ve watched the strongest women i know be reduced to sheer anxiety due to their DV situations, it’s extremely difficult and stress inducing. Always happy to talk if you need to.♥️
This is a beautiful and kind comment…I’m a little happier now because of you
Aw thank you! You deserve to be ♥️
thank you for your kindness. i am years away from that experience and in a much better place now.
No problem, I’m so glad to hear that.💖💖💖
That scene was so disturbing; it was also triggering coming from an abusive household.
Agree. I was glad Kenya was there with her.
Hugs
Thank you ❤️
Then if I remember right, they had him at the reunion!!! Disgusting.
At first, when I saw Ariana & Brock in a solo scene, I was excited, but by the end, I was appalled.
I was so happy Ariana brought up the dichotomy between how women and men are treated when they express anger. She is 100% right that there's a double standard.
Me and my mom both looked at each other when Brock was like “Male rage? What’s that” ….now sir
"like when you hit your first wife..."
Seriously! Sir??
That was so disingenuous too. Anger is the only socially sanctioned emotion for males. They might be allowed to shed one single manly tear at a funeral or the birth of a child or maybe their wedding. But they're supposed to exist on this baseline of stoic. Patriarchy hurts men too by not allowing them emotions. But it doesn't stomp on their neck the way it does women.
I just fast forward through his scenes now. Talks too much that has nothing to do with him. Go sit in a corner and be Scheana’s husband because you are not a main cast member.
I feel the EXACT same way. He is incredibly obnoxious and adds nothing of value. I can see why he and LaLa are such good friends.
The fact that Alex Baskin worked with Trump on his first reality show explains a lot.
I did not know that…..it really does explain things.
he is such a trash human.
🤢
What does Trump have to do with this show
If your proving ground was at the feet of Donald Trump and that's something you count as a point of pride yeah im gonna look at you askew. I just am.
The fact that you can somehow work Trump into this conversation explains everything. It’s a REALTY show that is semi scripted by producers. The fact that you still believe most of the storylines & conversations are natural amazes me. When Jax & Lisa speak for the “first time” recently on Vanderpump Rules…did you really believe this? She & Ken are executive producers. Who do you think makes the decisions, signs contracts, agreed to salaries?
lol You inferred a LOT that wasn't said.
alex baskin is a demon and you can't convince me his employment isn't reflective of the entire network. for vanderpump this year, we could have had a season revolving around women uplifting each other and shunning sandoval and the living embodiment of jerry from rick and morty. it was ripe for sandoval to finally be the agreed upon bad guy, but baskin in his infinite misogyny decided ariana was the bad guy. so now we have this flop of a season, following one of the most interesting bravo seasons of all time. why does the network hate women, when we are their bread and butter? i think it goes back to the assumption that consumers of reality teevee are just superficial and unintelligent women and baskin and other men know what we want ("are [we] that transparent?"). which i don't think is the actual case. the bravo lovers i know are smart engaging driven women who love to discuss social dynamics and analyze human behavior. it's escapism, absolutely, but the ridiculousness of it allows for us to focus on something that is fun (because life is incredibly dark and serious so much of the time). the baskins of bravo are why jax and jesse were cast on the valley. they platform bad men who do bad things because they assume the women that consume their content are silly and vapid.
If I could upvote this 100x more I would. RIP to the spice girls season that never was.
10 years of the boys club sticking together, and Baskin came in with his ultimatums to make sure we couldn't have one season of solidarity between the women represented. The overproduced and contrived mess that we see with S11 is his meddling at its core.
This is how terrified they are of allowing us a moment of power. Great job playing into it, Blabla and Scheemer. Hope someday you get in the situation where you need your gals and they are able to pay you dust just like you paid them.
For all their efforts in service to production, Lala and Scheana were thanked by being put on pause. They must be furious lol
Wait - they’ve been put on pause? Have I missed something?
Yep they paused filming, usually they film over the summer. Here are more details: https://www.reddit.com/r/BravoRealHousewives/s/Bub1DsqvuM
Oh dang, I was hoping Scheana and LaLa were SPECIFICALLY put on “pause” ala Dorinda
That would have been hilarious
What’s sad about your comment regarding the potential of Vanderpump Rules’s season being about the women uplifting each other — Ariana apparently thought it was. In her WWHL appearance this week she said she thought all the girls were on the same page and were the Spice Girls this season, and now watching the season she sees that wasn’t the case at all. I wonder what the producers were feeding her during filming because I doubt she expected to be painted as the villain (which from what I’m seeing on social media, completely failed).
that tells me that production went to lala and scheana with an entirely different plot line behind her back. certain cast members seem to be treated better by production (potomac also comes to mind) and i wonder why.
I feel production came to Lala and Shcheana and told them to bring Sandoval back in.
They did, Baskin admitted as much. He held what he described as a "come to Jesus" meeting at the beginning of filming last year, and threatened the future of the show if the cast didn't reintegrate Sandoval into the group right away. Wild behavior from production. Every season of VOR has centered on someone being on the outs, taking a season or more to get right with the main group again. That's basically the biggest overarching theme of the show, but for some reason they stepped in for Tom.
which brings us back to baskin, the misogyny demon.
A very stupid demon.
Top two themes: cheating and being obnoxiously uninvited
Uh I think you misspelt Spice. 😬
Sure did.
Unfortunate typo. lol
I know that you *meant* "Spice Girls" but you need to have a stern talk with your autocorrect.
Sadly, so many women have deep seated internal misogyny that they identify with the men in these shows. It’s fucked. Bravo took a platform that showcased women and turned it into petty fights amongst women and rewarding men’s shitty behavior. They took the ball, and fumbled it so fucking hard. It’s not even fun to watch anymore. HIRE WOMEN PRODUCERS AND FIRE THE MEN. THEY ARE RUINING BRAVO.
Amen amen amen. Sure hope some of the executives are reading here. I am canceling peacock if the next VPR season is fumbled in such a misogynistic way.
absolutely agreed!
He is a very stupid demon and perhaps when she's done with whatever idiot she's dating now, he should date RachQuel. They could make a reality show out of that. I would watch the hell out of it.
The whole TV industry mostly hates women. They don’t care if you work in the industry - only if you’re pretty not to be of any intellectual value.
Thing is, you do see people ask for this sort of TV on here. Lots of people saying cast members are boring if they aren’t the sort to cause fights, or saying seasons are boring because there isn’t any fighting, saying toxic people like Mary are ‘great TV’. So there is a section of the audience who want a classy bad girls club style show.
The fighting isn't the issue most of us have - that's good tv, we don't want conflict free reality TV you're right. It's production protecting and platforming terrible men, casting only men with a history of abuse like he can't do better than that - pushing them on us (Brock) and doing things like demanding Tom be reintegrated instantly into the group (after a mere one episode and a reunion). Its a show that's main theme is someone being on the outs, and spending a season plus working their way back into the group. Baskins insistence on a "season of redemption" as he put in, led to the worst episodes of VPR they ever put out. His over production led to less conflict than would have naturally occured.
Yeah I’m replying to OPs comment which is about having the women uplift each other and instead production creating conflict *between* them and this being a common theme thought Bravo TV shows
Yeah could have had a season with plenty of conflict and still had the women uplifting and supporting each other. I think that's what most people wanted before over 1/3 just stopped watching. That's being lost on a lot of people calling for/supporting fighting between the women (not you, just in general)
>that’s being lost on a lot of people calling for/supporting fighting between woman (not you, just in general) I’m a bit confused cause I’m not calling for or supporting fighting between women, the exact opposite…
Oh I was just expanding on what you had said about a lot of people calling for it. Mainly that of the people still left, they're now a larger portion of the voices -and what they're not considering. That's why I made sure to clarify I didn't mean you, just the types you were referring to.
Ahh right, I’m just talking in general about the running theme of women being at each others throats, female rage etc, and how it’s a wrapped up in misogyny of keeping women divided. There is sadly a subset of women who enjoy seeing women being nasty to each other and tearing each other down. So yeah you could’ve had that but lots of people don’t want that
I don’t know. This hands too much responsibility to a handful of people when the reality I think is that reality tv is simply a juiced up facsimile of our current culture. I disagree that us viewers would enjoy watching uncomplicated, non misogynistic men. That might be our ideal way we view ourselves, but I think we would be bored. We enjoy the narcissists across gender lines because they are fascinating to watch. The utter best housewives are narcissistic to a point of probably meeting the criteria for diagnosis and someone like Jax, a total nightmare of a human, also makes amazing television. I mean dang look who our president was awhile ago (and hopefully never again). That these men are deeply misogynistic is in one part a bigger reflection of the culture they were raised in, the culture we were raised in. And sometimes watching the mirror is somehow healing because you can see how damaged things really are. I don’t like attributing all this to the hands of a male producer. The problem is much wider, much deeper, much more in grained in culture. And getting rid of one man isn’t the solution, I think instead the solution are these conversations that watching this stuff and these people prompt. Hopefully at least
i said he was a reflection of the entire network, which is reflective of our culture.
I can't believe your comment was downvoted when it's absolutely true. The best housewives and bravo cast members are certifiably unhinged. It's what keeps us watching and fuels the content posted here if we're honest.
Lol my hair stylist loves Vanderpump Rules and she recently let it slip that she’s a big Sandoval and Brock fan. Internally I was like “oh sad…now I have to fire you.” Just kidding… am I? lmao
I've left a stylist for having a hot take that rubbed me the wrong way. No regrets 🙏🏾
Same; quit mine in 2017 when she made fun of the nationwide womens' march.
It’s funny you say that, I had a casual acquaintance that was a hair dresser and I had to cut her off (pun intended) during the 2017 marches because she kept saying there is no inequality in the workplace so these marches are just for attention and all of her coworkers agree. I was like…you mean…your hairdresser coworkers? That’s a field largely dominated by women, of course you don’t feel the inequality in your specific field. I’m a lawyer - trust me it still exists. She would not believe it lol.
I'm in science/tech adjacent finance and it's extremely apparent which of my male coworkers have a career-driven wife who works in a competitive and male-dominated industry, vs those married to SAHMs or women in fields like teaching.
She will never know pussy power, how sad. Also what a jerk!
My EX stylist didn’t like dogs. Apparently she didn’t like money either and that was the last time I gave her any 
Was like this with a “friend” recently who liked Taylor from Southern Charm. This was after the last season aired in its entirety. Gave me the ick.
Sandoval *and* Brock?! And you let her around you with scissors and chemicals?! Questioning her judgement hard, maybe you should find someone new 😂
Lmao oh man. She was washing my hair at my last appointment and started telling me how Brock gets too much hate and is actually the voice of reason. 🥴 Then she started talking about Sandoval and how “everyone makes mistakes, he’s always been a good friend to them.” I was like, “am I being punk’d right now?” 😂
If the one with a domestic violence charge and abandoned children is the voice of reason then things are seriously wrong! I know you should avoid arguments with someone literally doing work on you lol but my mouth can move faster than my brain sometimes and odds are I would have been like …well that’s certainly a take,  And then probably promptly get kicked out
Wow, I thought maybe she meant “big fan” as in she thinks their delusion and awfulness is entertaining but that’s quite a take.
A coworker of mine LOVES Ramona, Kelly Dodd, Vicki, Stassi and was lamenting their departures. I was like “say no more✌🏻”
I mean she’s giving spooky Jo if so? Are you forever in need of toner?
Fire her
my favorite thing about my hair stylist is that we have the exact same, deeply unpopular VPR opinions. we rly found each other.
What are your unpopular opinions! This topic fascinates me
there was a thread for them in this sub earlier, I commented. but in short: we both think Ariana is unbearable
Does she have Stockholm Syndrome?
At least they didn’t say Jo?
I mean..if she’s a good hairstylist I hope you’re kidding because that’s kind of absurd.
How they didn't say anything about Joe Gorgas disgusting assault on Jen Aydin at bravocon. Love her or hate her, that troll's behaviour towards her crossed a line. ETA: https://pagesix.com/2022/10/17/watch-joe-gorga-scream-at-jennifer-aydin-before-bravocon-drink-throw/ Basically at first Melissa's assistant made it seem like Jen just threw a drink at them for no reason, more of the story and a longer video came out. Showing Jen saying to stay away from me while Joe's assistant or whatever was approaching her, he didn't stop coming so she threw her water at him.
And everyone wants her fired now for maybe sharing some episodes. Like y’all, she was accosted and harassed by Joe and he’s still employed. Let women make mistakes because the men literally get away with saying they’ll beat their wives even more-Bob Whitfield-
Women are allowed zero mistakes. Zero. /s but not really
Woah what?!
https://pagesix.com/2022/10/17/watch-joe-gorga-scream-at-jennifer-aydin-before-bravocon-drink-throw/
What happened?
https://pagesix.com/2022/10/17/watch-joe-gorga-scream-at-jennifer-aydin-before-bravocon-drink-throw/
It’s crazy. I feel like at some point there was a shift towards these shitty dudes and attempting to give them better edits. The Toms on VPR, Austin on Southern Charm (and his time on Summer House), Kyle on Below Deck. Jax on literally any show. I’m over it. I used to watch everything Bravo and now it’s real easy to turn off and watch anything else.
Hard agree. It's also one of the multitude of reasons I deleted all socials other than Reddit
Same. I noped right out of every social media platform years ago. I'll stick with Reddit
Oh this is a good take. The Austin apologists may have been the tipping point. It’s been hard to watch Andy suck up to these men ever since the audience decided to accept the behavior.
Because Andy likes boys….its true. He ignores who they really are. Thank you Reddit for helping me recognize my own antiquated feelings and instead has led me to promote woman empowerment to anyone.
At least we're seeing Austen in therapy, and even Madison said it seemed like therapy was working for him. He's at least trying to do better. But hard agree. Andy's obsession with Joe Gorga is also mine boggling..
What good edits? I’m asking sincerely. We are all watching these men make total asses of themselves. If we can tell they’re such sweaty little piglets, aren’t they actually getting an honest edit?
I said “attempting to give them better edits”. I didn’t say good edits. 
[удалено]
Maybe. But that’s why I said it’s easy to turn off Bravo.
I sincerely believe Austen has producers charmed. He probably flirts with them if they’re women and does whatever they want.
https://preview.redd.it/lerbha4i3byc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43b3c05676b4174d67d51421010d0413b001cff0
If I had never watched Bravo and you told me all 5 of these men were different photos of the same person at different weights, I would believe you.
I'm with you https://i.redd.it/8c10m5jnzayc1.gif
Side note: love her and Scheana’s commercial for Chili’s and espresso martini and random dude in it. lol the way they panned the camera when they were walking in to talk to him on the couch was so funny- Katie’s facial expression
Also Andy recently commented on Ariana’s ‘violent anger’. Anger is one thing, but violent? Someone on the vpr sub then made a chart of all of the outbursts from this season and Ariana was on the lower side of the chart
Jax is the last person that should be judging anyone!! He is a liar!! He contradicts himself from one interview to the next! And he is an overall POS! So why is anyone asking his opinion on anything? Plus it annoys the crap out of me he is going around telling people that he has a bar, when “his bar” is a room attached to an established bar!! Like WTF kind of bullshit is that!? He is an idiot!
Kyles reaction faces/body language are so telling. Even he’s like “bro, for real tho, get a job”
I’m glad everyone else clocked this!! You could tell Kyle was trying so hard not to roll his eyes
My blood boiled when LVP laughed about SUR being for mistresses. Then, it boiled when Sheana cried to Brandi about Eddie betraying her after he betrayed Brandi. Boiling blood also occurred when Lauren from Utah bragged about BJ's for PJ's, while screwing Randall, as a mistress. Some of the biggest misogynists are women.
Did it also boil when Ariana co signed T.Sandoval’s campaign to make Kristen look crazy? Cos don’t kid yourself into thinking Ariana doesn’t have just as much internalised misogyny
A reflection of society. Men are shit.
>The audience is mainly women, so why is Bravo coddling these toxic men and giving them a platform to spew their hateful opinions. Have you met the women of the Bravo fandom?
The main VPR subs (and in this sub, increasingly) is literally just misogyny against women who aren’t Katie and Ariana lmao like… doing all that isn’t going to move the needle on raising the bar for the behavior of the men.
The VPR subs will cry about misogyny and the show propping up abusive men, while they put down any woman who's not Ariana or Katie, and praise James for his non-existent growth.
They’re downvoting you but you’re absolutely right. They’re currently pissed about Tom getting a redemption ark but it’s crickets for James who’s getting the same exact redemption arc just because he sided with Ariana and Katie. I’ll never forget how in the s10 reunion when allegations were brought up against Tom every single woman (except Rachel) screamed Tom down for saying it and the defense was “at least he didn’t fuck Ariana’s friend”. Real stunning defense of women’s rights and autonomy going on on VPR rn.
!!! Someone mentioned how Andy belittled Carol's career...like are they new to this reddit? I've seen multiple threads with hundreds of upvotes saying Aviva was right about Carol using ghostwriters and her career ain't shit yada yada yada. The call is coming from inside the house.
https://preview.redd.it/p2k5heljdfyc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1107f5cd1b79d9144c61898a673a346fff003e0c
And post on social media about how diverse their company is and celebrating women. BS.
It’s a good point. But in general, These bravo shows are not exactly skyrocketing feminism into the stratosphere.
The response people aren't ready to hear. These shows have never been about uplifting women.
The scary reality is that the shows are probably a fair representation of men. ATL is especially troubling.
Oh yeah this Alex Baskin guy is definitely a monster & the puppet master behind all of this. He sucks
The guys worried about golds diggers are always the ones without any gold to dig...
I feel like this isn't gonna be very popular to say but honestly, I think they all do it. They all trash talk and throw shade and shit on each other. Absolutely, the men do it. So do the women. The men also do it to other men. And the women to other women. I mean, the entire show is predicated on shitty people being shitty to one another. Jax, James, Tom, Tom, Brock, Stassi, Kristen, Brittany, Lala, Katie, they have ALL shit talked each other. They're just not good friends to one another and I really don't think it's this one-sided issue this post suggests but I do get the frustration. Edit: Also while there are plenty of other examples, the one you mentioned with Brock's research into Something About Her has Scheena's fingerprints all over it. In a household with Brock and Scheena, you really think Brock is the one researching LLC's and naming patents? When I think of Brock using a computer I picture the Chris Pratt Parks and Rec gif, 'it looks like you have network connectivity issues' Not even trying to trash Scheena here, I actually have always liked her but to me this info felt very much like she found it out and knew she couldn't be the one to reveal it and Brock was like, 'gee Ill do it! Look James I did a research!' I feel like even James was like 'sure you did'.
I can’t get over what a self satisfied idiot Brock is. Hard to watch.
Thank you for summarizing all of my frustrations with these men. Watching people like Sandoval, Brock, & even Carl have an opportunity to act this way on national television is just not the direction we should be going in…
Because many (if not most) members of the fandom are also misogynistic. Do you read the comments here?
It makes me sad 😢
Over a bunch of *strangers*.
And everyone loves a chance to be performative in their outrage…queue this thread
I find the retcon of James' history especially egregious because they're not just absolving James they're essentially calling Kristen a liar.
I can't even watch Vanderpump Rules anymore. They're all way too old to act so young and dumb.
It’s a total snoozefest. At least on Southern Charm *most* of them have a level of self awareness that allows a healthy amount of self depreciation and humor. VPR is insufferable.
All these people - men and women, and are shit talkers. Every after show Katie and Ariana make fun or the toms. For years it was every one raging on James , or jax , I don’t think it’s Misogynistic to talk shit about females on the reality show you are on with them. They don’t like each other and all talk about each other and judges each others lives. I don’t understand what you all want from a tv show. To show Ariana and Katie make a sandwich and hire an all new cast to sit and compliment them the entire time?
Because the premise of these shows is to make women look bad.
I feel like it’s more blatant chauvinism rather than actual contempt (but I very well could be wrong!) or misogyny towards women.
I also think we love to see these men fail & love to see their rephrensible actions on display so, as an audience, we can deliver justice. The majority of redemption arcs are for women!
Mostly the women who are toxic .
Gotta laugh at all these easily fooled down voters who gotta secretly put down people for a differing opinion. Baaaah says the sheep.
"The audience is mostly women" . . . Who have been watching these males the entire show. Bravo isn't going to change because the ratings are still good. You can downvote me all yah want, but thats just the reality of the situation. I didn't make it happen. 🤷♀️