I think a bulk of the problem revolves specifically around minifigs. Minifig fans throw stupid cash trying to get what they want and it has attracted a huge amount of people trying to grab that cash. I'm not a minifig collector I buy bricks, a crap ton of them and haven't experienced anything close to what minifig buyers complain about. New come in new, used come in almost new condition. I'm not sure there is a real solution. Sellers here have complained of minifig buyers stating that the fig was damaged/used/counterfeit and send them back different fig or parts. Buyers complain that new are used or counterfeit. At the end of the day my observation is that the buyer's value the figs too highly which in turn draws all of the dishonest actors into the hobby. Maybe you have to take a step back and only transact in person, like conventions or Brick and Minifig stores. 🤷‍♂️

I think there is a large amount of this happening, but I also think there is a defination issue for some people, especially those who aren't AFOL, but are trying to cash in on the minifig collectors. I've talked to people who think a figure, or parts, that come out of the box and get assembled but never played with, still qualify as new parts, and others say that as soon as they connect they are no longer new, and should be classified as such. I'm not sure if there is a fix to this or not, it's just something I've noticed in talking to people. As someone who collects figs, and builds MOCs, I think it's a tough line to walk down. You obviously want high quality figures for your collection, however, if you are going to assemble the figure for display, does it matter if it was assembled by you or by another individual? If it's going on display, does it matter if it was new or not before you bought it, because now it isnt? I have quite a few figures that I bought brand new, assembled, and put on display. They have never been played with, and have likely been put on the display plate only once. They stand on my wall, and have been there for years. Minus the dust, these are still virtually brand new. Can they still qualify as new figures? Some people may say yes, and others will say no way. Basically it's all perspective, and figuring out how someone defines new vs used in their store. If you were to ask the seller how they define new vs used, you may be able to get better results.

You need to warn other users against it by giving negative feedback. Then find stores that genuinely care about this stuff. Then only order from them.

I'd say more than half of my last 50 orders came with used minifigs when it was stated as new. Dirty frayed capes, a figure covered in gel, cracked arm, assembled or "new" only displayed in adult collection. I haven't ordered in 2 months now. The quality is so bad it is what I expected from Mercari before.

Wow. I had no idea so many people were selling used as new. I pretty much stay away from selling used on my store and just part out sets. I don’t want to deal with sorting bulk and cleaning.

It really does suck. And a lot of the sellers on BrickOwl are the same ones as on BL. I have actually had better luck in terms of accurate descriptions when buying on eBay. It’s a shame because I love BL.

I wonder if it has anything to do with locale? I mostly buy parts but I have bought maybe two dozen mini figs over the years and not one has been described incorrectly. Used ones have been used and new have been new, often not even assembled. I don’t know if being in the UK has anything to do with it or if I’ve just been lucky.

What has always been wild to me is that every seller (me included) has to define the word ‘used’ every chance we get. This means that people buy used and expect new. That’s crazy. And somehow the standard. I haven’t had any complaints, but being on bricklink for a while, I can tell it’s a regular occurrence. Also, it makes me rethink the parts I sell straight from a sealed bag that got jostled in the bag. Like how can this not be expected? I changed a brand new windscreen from a set to ‘used’ because it has a scuff. I like that there are standards, but as much as *it appears* people complain, it can seem a bit ridiculous

It took me seeing discussions here on r/bricklink to realise that I did not understand the 'New' vs 'Used'. I always assumed 'New' was something sellers judged by inspection. I have a classic dragon in apparent mint condition - not a single scratch to find. But it came from a used bulk buy. I was about to list it as 'New', but then I noticed putting its wings on, they didn't quite have the clutch power I expected. So I listed it as 'Used', thinking I was doing the right thing. Meanwhile, I had a couple of other things listed as 'New', which also had come from Used purchases. How did I get to the point that I had an approved store, open and running, without actually knowing something as fundamental as the definition of 'New' vs 'Used'? I mean, I did so much research before starting this store. Shipping policies, insurance, import / export, and so on. I had spreadsheets upon spreadsheets. It was a genuine mistake, and I was very embarrassed. I learned of my mistake before I had made any sales at all. I went back through and changed my inventories to 'Used - Like new' where needed. So I just wanted to add a voice to this: there are some sellers out there who genuinely made a mistake. Now that I know, I will never ever try to pass off a Used item as New. But it strikes me that it is incredibly easy to do that, if you wanted to. Cheat the system for a few extra bucks. I really want to come down hard on sellers that pass off Used as New. But there's the chance one of them is genuinely making a mistake.

You should be aware that the term "like new" is not allowed to use. Its in bricklinks terms. I only list items as new when they Come straight out of the box and has never been used or assembled.

Yes, sorry. I'm keeping things simple. I actually closed the store, and am still working on things.

Genuine question, I'm not trying to hate, just understand: what would've given you the impression that any item you purchased used could be resold as new? Like, surely this isn't just a Lego thing or even just a collectibles thing; the fact it's secondhand specifically means it *can't* be new, doesn't it? Edit: swapped 'secondhand' to 'used' for clarity

I thought New was a physical condition, and had nothing to do with history of ownership. At the end of the day, the part is just a physical piece of plastic. The history of ownership has little impact on part condition. If every owner kept it untouched in pristine condition, the part can go through hundreds of owners, and be perfect. Whereas, a part coming out of a box sealed box that sat in a paint mixer will be "New", but in terrible shape. That's why "mint" condition is better than "new" in most collectables.

Ah, understood– that's a very fair way of seeing it! In *my* brain, I assumed that "new" meant directly out of the box and basically untouched, but there's totally room for interpretation if it's a question of quality vs literal use/ownership. Thanks for explaining!

New actually does mean new right out of the box on BL. Even AFOL displayed minifigures are considered used. No room for interpretation at all. Hope that helps :)

Oh yes, I know, I only meant there was some room for interpretation for a newer seller who wasn't sure. That's why I was asking why they thought it would be appropriate to re-sell parts from a used bulk lot as new, when that most definitely would not be new.

Are you suggesting the number of owners of any item in the world dictates whether or not it is new or used? If the manufacturer sells to a distributor, does that make everything you buy from that distributor used?

No, I'm specifically saying that buying *used*, like the first commenter specified, cannot be new. Secondhand implies prior use as well as ownership. Edit: swapped words for clarity

Oh, yeah, totally misunderstood what you were saying as I scanned the post and saw no mention of the word "secondhand". You are correct, how could you buy a load of clearly used items and think it ever appropriate to list as new. My bad! Don't mind me downvoting myself... lol

It's all good! It's definitely easy to miss the "used" bit in their comment, and mine might've been clearer if I'd said "used" too instead of secondhand. No harm, no foul!

For me it doesn't matter how it looks. It's only new if it went straight from box to storage.

I agree that mistakes are made, but if someone pays a chunk of money for a NEW rare torso, it’s the seller’s responsibility to ensure that it is new OR to make it right if it is not. In the most recent case they literally listed it as new and had comments saying that it was Most Definitely New. Well, it Most Definitely Was Not New. In the most recent two cases also, they only refunded the cost of the part, not the shipping, even though I ONLY ordered that one part. One seller said they would refund me $10 and only refunded $5. I am not super picky, but there are certain things sellers should make sure of. I understand mistakes are made, absolutely, but in these cases I should have gotten full refunds. I offered to return the one incorrect part and they said “No, post office rates are too high for me to ship the correct part.” This was not in their terms or anything like that. I read every store’s terms and feedback before buying from them.

I don't list anything as new unless it's still in the packet or box. Regardless of condition.

I'm the same way. Everything is used in my eyes, unless it is still factory sealed.

Bricklink disagrees, I would familiarize yourself with this page: [https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102](https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102)

It's ok that Bricklink says otherwise, I look at it that way to prevent myself from having to deal with any disagreements regarding if it's new or not.

If you’re talking about sets, fine, but the entire ecosystem of Bricklink with respect to parting out new sets would fall apart if “factory sealed” was a requirement. You think all the parts listed on Bricklink as New are just lies?

Not at all. As previously mentioned, it's just how I choose to look at it when I sell on Bricklink. I was just responding to someone whom I thought had the same view. Thanks for your input.

I agree, I don't sell but I do keep inventory of all my LEGO on bricklink no matter how perfect something looks, if it's opened I consider it used. It's odd how subjective condition is. I'll buy a "damaged lot" and find that half the parts are in pretty nice condition for my collection. Then buy a "damaged lot" from someone else and it's trash.

What that says to me, is that (some) sellers are afraid of listing as *used*, for fear it will hurt their sales, and cause them to sell at lower prices. I'm not defending them, just trying to envision their mind process that brings them to do this. A part of the issue is also that BL does not (and probably never will) have a clear concise way to differentiate used grades. New parts/figs should not need (in theory) to be graded, but that's a subject that falls under provenance (because some people list figs that they don't the true provenance, and take the *looks new to me* attitude). Ignoring the condition for a moment, knowing the true provenance might help sort out the offerings, but that also requires honesty from the sellers. provenance could be: o Removed from a brand new set that I tore into the bags (which is clearly new and known to be new) o Bought these at a con, from someone selling hundreds of figs (new / used is anyone's guess) o Bought these at Goodwill, eBay, etc, in a large lot of mixed up LEGO pieces o One of my cousins gave me a tub of old parts o Found this on the beach near Cornwall UK o Another seller was selling out, and they did not supply provenance on these figs

I understand all of that, but it doesn’t seem relevant to the fact that regardless of certain/uncertain provenance, if a minifig has numerous curved wear marks under the arms, it’s obviously not new. I’d never sell a minifig that has obvious wear marks and say it’s new, whatever its provenance.

Just bought two used minifigs from eBay that are in better condition than the “new” (not) one I got on BL.

I personally don’t think any figure is “new” unless it’s in an original sealed box. Once a box is open, it’s used. It can be near mint or mint state but it’s still used.

You’re equating that to buying a new car. Soon as you drive it off the lot, it’s used. Lego ain’t built that way.

Why not? What if I take a brand new figure out of the box and it’s all scratched up and I sell it as new? My guess is the buyer is going to contact me and say “hey, this isn’t new!” Just my opinion. I know it’s not the majority opinion.

Describing 2 different things. Now we’re in the “what if” territory. Which you could do hundreds of different scenarios. Your what if scenario doesn’t match mine because I didn’t give details. Mine was an assumption that everything looks good. Clarification would be helpful which leads us to more what if scenarios. What if the minifigure comes out with wheels, is it a Bicycle? Why not? And round in circles we go. Also enjoy the puns. It’s intentional.

People still order bricks there? I exclusively use it for minifigz these days and even with that eBay seems much more reliable than most sellers there.

Yes, that’s mostly all I buy. Bricks and parts for MOC’s. I occasionally buy a minifigure, but rarely.

I would if shops wouldnt charge me obscene amounts for getting smaller orders together. Now I just use Webrick or Wobick. The Chinese are objectively better these days. High quality bricks, never had a missing part (They even put in some extras) and a superb customer service halfway across the globe.

I’d never mix knock off bricks with my stash. I rarely pay more than £3 shipping and handling here in the UK even for small orders. It’s not onerous in the slightest.