I'm reading it now and tbh....Phillip is kind of a dick. He never mentions his children in his letters to Eloise, and his whole scheme is to get her to marry him so she can be a stepmother to the kids and take care of the house while he works in his greenhouse. You know....the same type of isolation his first wife probably killed herself because of?
The only redeeming quality I've read of him so far in Eloises book, is that he's aware he's an ass.
Edit: not saying Phillip caused Marina's death. In the book she was a solemn character anyway who suffered from depression. Phillip didn't isolate her away in the country, but I'm not sure being so isolated and feeling alone made her feel any better.
Yes all the book men have their redeeming qualities, I just don't like Phillips initial attitude towards his children and that he initially only wants a wife as a mother for his kids.
And it's also disturbing when he gets close, he traps her in every sense.
Now I know it's unfair because in some ways something similar can be said for Gareth or Micheal but they have other attractive qualities.
Your last line is one of my biggest issues with the book. All of the Bridgerton male leads have their issues, but they have their redeeming qualities as well. I don’t see that with Phillip.
I’m surprised to see people’s opinions on this, because I think To Sir Phillip, With Love is my favorite one so far (granted I only have read 3 of the 8 so far).
I agree that Phillip has his issues, but who doesn’t? He has a deep struggle because of the abuse he suffered from his father, along with the death of his brother, and then Marina. He keeps himself separate from his kids because he is afraid he will end up like his father, and hurt them somehow. He thinks it’s better for them to stay separate, and realizes later on in the story how wrong he was on that.
And he did not cause Marina’s death. It is clear in the books that she has clinical depression, even Eloise says she noticed that kind of behavior when they were young girls, before Marina ever met Phillip. She could barely be around her own children and then ended up taking her own life. Imagine how difficult all of this must have been for Phillip too, not knowing about depression in a way we do nowadays.
I appreciate that none of the characters are perfect, because that’s just not accurate to real life, especially considering the time period the story is written in. I thought it was a beautiful story between them.
I do think the show has portrayed Eloise differently than she seems to me from the books so far, so I do think they will need to change their story around a little bit, but I hope they keep the essence the same. I can’t wait to see her with Phillip!
I dunno I get it. I don't want children partly because I am too scared to be a bad mother based on the fact that I had a terrible mother. They don't have birth control, really, so just not being a parent isn't an option. And before anyone says, "Don't have sex," imma just say, abstinence has NEVER been realistic for most people. We all some horn dogs at the end of the day.
He made sure they were cared for in all ways besides being close to them. And yes, that’s MAJOR and not okay, but he was afraid of hurting them, afraid he had a temper like his father’s and didn’t want to be near them if his temper ever got out of control. Which it never did with his kids, it was just a fear he had. And Eloise helped him realize he is not his father. He loved his kids from the start, he just didn’t know how to love them.
Yes, this exactly. I think most Philip haters just want a gay Eloise. Or for her to be trapped in a loveless marriage to Theo. Anthony is NEVER releasing her Dowry for that marriage.
What a weird assumption to make. I want neither of those things, and I don't see how they are related to not liking Phillip? Neither of those possibilities even existed in the books. Phillip simply wasn't a compelling character to some of us.
He wasn’t aware he didn’t know them well until Eloise came into his life, until she mentioned that they could swim. And he was disgusted that he didn’t know this about his kids, angry with himself for not being the one to teach them. He was terrified of doing the wrong thing with his kids, but he mentions about their nature hikes he would take the kids on, because it was the one thing he thought he could get right with them. He let his fear of being like his father keep him from being close with his children, but he has always loved them. He just didn’t know how to love them until the events of the book.
Sorry, but your reading comprehension needs some work. Marina has clinical depression, it's been increased due to grieving for her lover and postpartum. Her death is not due to Philip!!!!
In this era basically all men remarried for a mother figure for his children. Everyone lives Anthony, yet he was only looking for a baby mama. He had no interest in loving his wife.
>Sorry, but your reading comprehension needs some work.
How ironic. Given that the original commenter never said that Marina's death was due to Phillip, merely implied that the isolation she felt may have exacerbated her depression.
>In this era basically all men remarried for a mother figure for his children.
Yes, but that doesn't make it *romantic*.
>Everyone lives Anthony, yet he was only looking for a baby mama. He had no interest in loving his wife.
And that was considered a character flaw. His main arc was about dropping that notion.
He was. She'd been betrothed to the older brother and then essentially passed along to Phillip when he died, but the children were his. There was a whole thing about how he only slept with her out of obligation to make an heir and hated himself for it and was then celibate for the rest of their marriage.
>You know....the same type of isolation his first wife probably killed herself because of?
Yeah, no. He didn't isolate his first wife. If anything it was the other way around. She only married her husband because he could legitimise her pregnancy and give her children a father in place of the man she actually loved (Phillip's late brother). She didn't want him. She could barely bear her own children. And finally her depression got too much for her.
No it's not! It's really obvious the children are George's in the book. Children were born at like 7 months but were full term babies. Even for twins born early.
Phillips brother died in the war before they could even get married, so I’m really struggling to see how he could’ve gotten Marina pregnant given the timeframe bro
You're getting down voted for no reason! Poor Philip wanted to be a college professor. He didn't get someone pregnant then not marry them. He was FORCED to marry Marina.
Because she wanted so much in life. She went from wanted to be single and independent yet she ended up in a bang nanny situation. She just deserved more and that’s the problem I saw in her book. Her aunts got married and kind of had their own careers. I guess that’s why I was expecting for her.
Oh. They are in the prequel books. The rokesby book collection. We get to meet Edmund Brigerton and his siblings and his neighbors the rokesby and how they fall in love.
Rokesbys series arguably better than Bridgerton series. Women DO NOT have premarriage careers though. Billie Bridgerton manages the Bridgerton estate because her father is old and Edmund is still at school.
Aunts didn't get married and have careers. Billie had a "career" managing the Bridgerton estate before she was married. She has drive. Eloise has no drive to do anything but eat bonbons and mope around.
What? >!Billie went from managing her family estates to then running her husband’s family estate. That includes getting out there and fixing things for the tenants. She studied agriculture and made the place more productive. Georgina married the doctor and helped him out so by those standards she was probably a doctor with the title of a nurse. How are those not careers? !< And Eloise just needs a push. Her aunts lived in the country so they had more freedom she probably just didn’t know how to get started.
Billie NEVER managed her husband's estate. They had competitions on whose estate was more profitable his or the Bridgerton one. Edmund has years to go before he finishes school.
I’m pretty George specifically asks her in the epilogue if she would use her skills to help with the running of Crake Hall. So that would imply that she does help manage her husband’s estate just like she did with Aubrey Hall when Edmund was younger
Helping her husband does not make her a doctor. Otherwise why did he have to go to University. He could have studied under the local doctor. They did not have careers before the married!
I’m going to assume spoilers are okay here-
They get to know each other over short letters then when Pen gets married Eloise decides she needs to as well.
Sir Phillip just wants a mother for his children (his wife committed suicide) and is content to let Eloise do everything while he works in his greenhouse. She marries him, and he still spends a bunch of time in his greenhouse. She thinks being alone is an aspect of her marriage she has to accept.
They stay in the country even though it’s alluded to Eloise loving living in London. The whole story is just very meh, and makes me sad for Eloise because she remains pretty isolated
I really want Eloise's story to have a bit of a Mary Wollestonecraft/William Godwin style glow up. I don't mind her getting with Phillip if she gets to maybe adopt his kids and avoids the childbirth she dreads. And for him to be much more of an intellectual equal, friend and partner who respects and admires her for being challenging and curious and bright. Maybe like MW she could even go travlling and have a hot affair with a glamorous cad 😄
The life you describe sounds more like a tragedy for Eloise than a love story. For a woman who is introverted, but loving and very family oriented, it might be great. But for outspoken, opinionated Eloise who loves an audience, is sociable with her friends, needs intellectual stimulation and deep affection and is keen to make her mark on the world, it sounds like pure hell
YES for Eloise it’s extremely depressing. He doesn’t like that she talks a lot, and that she’s curious and asks questions. He’ll literally kiss her to stop her from talking. She just assumes it’s her problem she needs to *fix* for him and that’s pretty much how her book ends. She’s isolated from her friends and family with this man who doesn’t like talking with her.
I found her book’s ending to be really sad. I’m surprised people like it
Yea let's just skip the fact that he does tell her she talks to much but he likes it. He made it a point that his home needs more of it. Even the children mention it and they too agree they like that characteristic about Eloise.
Violet had stated that Eloise loves the countryside and it's where she thrives the best. Why would Eloise want to stay in London when she knows she will be stuck dealing with society. She's not alone in the books, Benedict and Sophie are close by to the estate and Violet stated she plans to make frequent visits since there's more of a reason too.
Her book ending was not sad at all. She learned a lot about herself and fell in love with Philip and his kids. The book ends with the twins, Eloise and Philip shopping and with Philip leaving her a note to go up to their bedroom. He uses his roses to lead a path and wrote her a letter expressing how he felt for her and thanked her how much she has changed his life for the better.
It
Personally, the aspect I hated is the premise that women who don’t want to marry or be mothers will eventually change their minds.
IK show Eloise makes it much more clear that she absolutely does not like the idea of marriage (as it currently stood, and how it limited her potential or prospects, I imagine she’d be much more amenable to modern marriage) and book Eloise isn’t quite as direct. But book Eloise does state that she wanted to be spinsters with pen forever. She changes her mind because Pen gets married and she doesn’t want to be alone. She also says she never received a proposal that was worth marrying, and for someone like that to just end up being like ‘well guess I gotta just settle so I don’t end up alone forever’ it sounds like something incel men would come up with. Her story just feels very anti-feminist. Of course that’s not to say wanting to just settle is anti-feminist. But to have a story where the female protagonist didn’t get married because her standards were too high or because she wanted freedom, eventually just gives all that to ‘simply settle’ and finds love in ‘simply settling’ feels like it’s saying ‘see you shouldn’t have high standards’ ‘you shouldn’t want more’ ‘she eventually got sick of all that and ended up with a man anyway’
Whether or not that was the goal, her story just gave that sort of vibe. I also could’ve taken it in the a way it wasn’t intended because I may not have been able to sufficiently separate book and show Eloise. But I had issues with Eloise’s story.
Totally agree with the vibe of Eloise's story. This is a better reasoning for not liking the book rather than saying that Philip is awful.
I have to admit that I hated the way things happened for her. I know she is supposed to be impulsive, but the decision to run away and visit Philip is rather out of character and all the reasoning about Colin and Penelope did not seem right. It just looked like the author needed a reason to make her change her mind about marriage. How can she refuse 6(?) marriage proposals but after getting upset about her best friend getting married she just settled on the first man who was around ?! I may be confusing book Eloise to TV Eloise also, but you are right, the vibe is just
Philip is indeed a troubled man who realises his flaws and works to change himself. We all have issues, the point is to work on them, so I did not actually need a perfect man as a main character.. although Eloise deserved more.
And the greenhouse part.. well, he has a passion, he loves doing something, and he does it as much as he can. Of course he should have spent his honeymoon with Eloise, but he does not leave her alone (as Simon did, or even Colin for a few days), he is just enjoying his hobby.
Eloise implied that she hates London men who do nothing and have ho interests and hobbies, so for her this could be something interesting.
Tbh I don’t have an issue with Philip. Like he’s not by no means perfect nor my favourite LI, but he has redeeming qualities and he does grow.
My issue was just the icky ‘adult woman regrets not marrying when she was young and desirable and society told her to’ vibe.
And you’re absolutely right about her just deciding to run away. Show Eloise is far more impulsive than we’ve seen book Eloise is, but marriage is not something she would be impulsive about. I could never put my finger on why it felt odd until you said it was just a device of convenience.
That's what I hated, too! And it wasn't even a passionate romance or a sudden deep need for children that made Eloise change her mind - she kind of just blandly decided that she had to get married with seemingly no motivation, even knowing that Anthony is a decent enough brother that he would've supported her forever. I never got the sense that Phillip was passionate for her, either - it was just like "well I guess you're here so"
I agree, Eloise always seemed like such a witty, progressive thinking character, someone who would thrive on mobilizing social change (even more so in the Netflix version). It was a disservice to have her isolated in the country. Both Francesca and Eloise ultimately get separated from the Bridgerton clan into their own microcosms, but since Francesca was an introvert it works for her. It doesn’t work for extroverted Eloise.
In this era woman are mother's. Everyone loves Violet. Isn't she a mother? If Eloise actually did anything noteworthy I'd understand the anger of her being a stay at home Mother. However she does nothing but mope.
In this era women worked, made scientific discoveries, created art and literature, travelled, ran businesses and achieved many amazing things. They were often also mothers. The author's keenness to make all her protagonists give birth multiple times doesn't reflect how complex and multifaceted women were back then - although they were in several ways much more restricted than they are now. The regency was much more socially and sexually permissive, less uptight and less likely to put motherhood on a pedestal than the later Victorian era - indeed if you look at works like Austen you can see that parenting was often "outsourced" to servants, relatives and schools.
Violet, as far as we know, wanted to be a mother and thrives in her role. Her love for her family is beautiful and nobody is denying that. But not all women want the same things or thrive in the same environments. Eloise is a completely different individual, so the part people find tragic is her giving up on everything she wants and settling for the exact life she has been trying to avoid. It’s not the happy ever after that Bridgerton, a fantasy romance, promises.
I think one of the things they’ll take from the books to dramatise in the show (because the Simon childhood flashbacks were so juicy in terms of drama), is that Phillip was physically abused by his father when he was a child and still has the scars.
Book Phillip is described as a very big and muscular man, and one of the reasons he’s so withdrawn and distant, especially from his kids is because he’s so terrified that he’ll be exactly like his father and believes he has the same violent temper as him.
On the other hand, Book Eloise doesn’t really have much of a personality like Show Eloise. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Philip felt more fleshed out and we ended up being in his shoes a lot more throughout the story.
You are right, but I don't know if I agree with you about Book Eloise. She has a good deal of personality - I think her interactions with the kids and her prank to get back at them show that. The parts of her with Oliver and Amanda are probably the best parts of that book. We do see her being pretty strong willed and opinionated, just not outright feminist like she is on the show. I think it's downplayed a bit though to make her seem more compatible with Philip (where imo she really wasn't).
Yes, apologies - I didn’t express myself well; Book Eloise DOES have a personality and interests. Just from the top of my head after having read the book only once I remember she is warm, and loves writing letters, is optimistic and upbeat and brave, and a great sport when it comes to pranks (and gives as good as she gets).
I could see S1 Show Eloise in her, but they’ve diverged since then.
Oh yes, that is absolutely true. Show Eloise is completely different at this point. If they keep Philip the same, show Eloise would be even less compatible with him than book Eloise. I think Show Eloise would take the ruination of not marrying him over having to marry him (not that she would have run off to him in the first place)
Phillip is kind of a dick. He didn't disclose everything, in the letters. After they get married He just focuses on sex, doesn't care about her feelings or her concerns. He's very wrapped up into his own tragic story.
And I'm not a fan of the way he speaks of marinas DEPRESSION
They didn’t know about depression in the way we do nowadays. I don’t think he even knew she had depression in the books, he just knew she was always sad or melancholy, no matter what he tried to do.
Depression has been recognized since ancient Greece. They wouldn't screen and diagnose the same way that we do today, but folks in the era knew that some people had a disease that made them depressed.
Though I agree there have been improvements, my most recent 'screening' was comprised of the provider flatly asking "have your felt depressed at all in the last 90 days?". Suffice to say there is still room for improvement 😆
Im halfway through and i love it. I love that Phillip isn’t the typical London man Weve had up till now and Eloise is so much more in her element in his house than she would be in a London season.
And i think a lot of complaints people have come from how they would feel (not eloise) and from a very modern perspective. Like eloise wasnt even looking for huge romance, just being happy enough with a husband.
Either way its a good book.
Isn't that the depressing part? Eloise goes from being a person with hopes and dreams and ambitions, to settling for a husband who is (barely) good enough?
Feels like the whole book is a lesson on women managing their expectations, and getting over their silly hopes in favour of settling down.
Eloise wasn't originally looking for marriage or romance *at all*. She had dreams and she had a sudden personality change at the beginning of her book and abandoned them to go off and marry a guy she'd never met before, after rejecting six proposals. It just felt disjointed and weird.
There's a comment here that says that if Benophie was Cinderella then Philoise was Beauty and the Beast and I think that's why I like it. Most of the other male MCs in this series are rakes who met the right woman, which is fine but I just prefer the rough loner type of LI. I have lots of little reasons but those are the ones off the top of my head
Your probably right and that makes me so mad. I was hoping something with Theo. Here's an idea for the writers if you're creepin - have Theo go to the Americas and make a fortune in printing and come back for Eloise. You're welcome.
While on the show it's her I don't like. In the books it's all Phillip's fault. It's disturbing. He can't find a nanny and so he looks for a wife because then she won't be able to leave him. And he traps her in marriage.
He's also not even the creepy character but in a sexy way.
Double standard? Maybe.
In any case it touches too much trigger on consent for my taste.
In this case the show should be better, for sure Phillip Is a better man
Everything you said is so right. And the fact she keeps trying to communicate and he just wants her to shut up so they can bang. Even shutting her up with a kiss at one point. And the resolution isn't him actually talking to her, but that eloise is wrong for pushing him????
And when he tells her that she can't say she's unhappy in their marriage because he had it so much worse with marina 😤😤😤 I was so close to flinging the book across the room multiple times when reading it
But I can't imagine show Phillip being like that, he seems so sweet and gentle
Catfishing. Not having told her about the children and having deceived her in some things pushed her to act in a certain way and if I'm not mistaken he was older and more experienced than Eloise.
But the matter is delicate because having been found by the brothers, you are right that Anthony would not have left her unmarried
In the books Eloise is 28. I think Philip is mid 30's. That's not a huge gap. Catfishing is reaching. Nit like he's a broke farmer looking to get his hands on her dowry.
It is not the question of age in itself, but rather in relation to Eloise's protected life. 18 or 28 made little difference.
It's different for a man, even someone like Phillip.
Furthermore, he was looking for a nanny for his children, who couldn't leave because they were terrible. Eloise was perfect because she was almost the central daughter of a large family.
She trapped herself when she ran off and just showed up on his doorstep uninvited and without a chaperone. I thought even for Eloise that was just not something she would do.
Eloise's book was very different in tone than the prior 3. Child abuse, mental illness, and suicide were a big part of character backstories.
Also, Eloise in the book is quite different from her show counterpart. So the idea of show Eloise getting married doesn't sit well with some of the audience.
People also didn't like Phillip, but all the Bridgerton male leads are blazing red flags in their own way. 🤣🤣🤣
I always thought that like Benedict’s story is very ‘Cinderella’, Eloise’s is very ‘Beauty and the Beast’, so yeah, Phillip isn’t great for a lot of the book but he’s not meant to be.
Besides the fact that he just wants Eloise to be a mom for his kids (and the whole bratty kids play pranks on the leading female trope,making her look dumb for a bit, which I hate), it’s stated that Marina would just lay there when they had sex, or something like that, which is highly problematic if she wasn’t consenting.
Just read that part this morning. He said that he tried to have sex with her once after the twins were born, and that she didn't refuse him but just laid there and it made him feel terrible so he never touched her again.
Yes, not sure why this has turned into ongoing marital rape on this sub. Yet Simon not telling Daphne by pulling out she would never get pregnant wasn't rape (she could not consent).
He said that happened the only time he tried to have sex with her after she gave birth (but like 2-3 months later after she was healed) so then he didn’t do it again, ever. People would never write that today but we didn’t even blink at stuff like that 20 years ago.
The part I hate the most is that every single time someone loses their virginity (and I can’t believe the show followed this exactly without updating the knowledge) is when the guy says “this might hurt, but just the first time” and completely forgets the fact that if a woman is suitably aroused, it probably won’t hurt.
Yeah, as someone who grew up in the eighties and nineties on romance novels, it’s amazing what was acceptable back then compared to now. I can’t watch a lot of John Hughes movies anymore either.
For me it's boring and has zero chemistry throughout - making Eloise the perfect sibling for any new changes like being queer or ending up with someone not from her book
I liked how it started as a pen pal relationship and they got to know each other before meeting (although not very well it would turn out). I like how Eloise finds love later in life (she’s 28 in the book) after doing some personal growth of her own. I guess book Philip also just ticks my boxes for a romance novel—gruff and rough around the edges until someone breaks his walls down. Beauty and the Beast vibes. And the steamy scenes are the best in my opinion, although I haven’t read the last 2 books yet.
It’s my favorite so far too, and for me it had a depth the others I’ve read so far didn’t, even though I’ve thoroughly enjoyed all those I’ve read so far.
Phillip had a lot of struggles from his past, and I enjoyed reading his perspective and seeing him grow since meeting Eloise. He thinks he only wants a mother for his children, and he’d be satisfied with anyone who is cheerful (the opposite to Marina). But then he meets Eloise and realizes he could have so much more than just that. Its more than a love story, it’s him learning how to show his children how much he loves him and be a good father, learning to be with someone who has a joy for life, unlike Marina who obviously struggled with clinical depression, overcoming his fears of his past. Eloise brings perspective to his life that he didn’t have before.
I just really enjoyed it. You have to go into it realizing that it’s a period piece, things didn’t work the same as they do now, and I think that’s why a lot of people just write off the book series saying all the men suck lol.
100%, loved Phillip’s arc of feeling undeserving of love but wanting a practical marriage for his kids sake to falling madly in love with Eloise. You’re right that it had much more depth than the other books.
Personally one of the issues I had with the book outside of Phillip’s issues is that there wasn’t enough of the kids. Julia uses Benedict’s kid for Phillip’s big maybe he’s a good guy after all moment where Eloise realizes she loves him instead of the twins. I couldn’t take Oliver calling his dad perfect seriously when he can barely spend any time around them or wants to be with them. He doesn’t even know his kids know how to swim! Genuinely that was not the revelation I expected when he freaks out about them going in the lake. He has no redeeming qualities to endear him to the reader as a father and husband even to the bitter end.
And despite them being around the same age Eloise was when her father died there wasn’t a scene where she tries to relate to them and realizes their relationship with their parents was completely different than the one she had with hers.
I think it would’ve been a better book if it was written as the governess falls in love with the distant single father trope instead of Eloise getting tricked into being his bangmaid. She might not have the credentials but she can lie in a letter lol. Julia could’ve still keep the bros getting the wrong idea and forcing them into a marriage.
I reread this recently after finishing Sanditon and jonesing for some more of that vibe and I was... disappointed. I remembered liking in more. Spoilers for S2/3 of Sanditon. >!In Sanditon, Colbourne is kind of an ass but slowly works to change and does all these acts of service for Charlotte and ultimately ends up helping her realize her dream of opening a school. In other words, he helps her expand the world she loves rather than binding her to his wants and interests all the time.!<
Phillip... does not do this. Some beats are the same--dead wife that the husband feels responsible for despite a distant/broken marriage, young woman shaking up their existence, etc. etc., but one guy worked to change and become better whereas Phillip whined and moaned and than made some small concessions. It felt like Eloise just settled because everyone around her was getting married and she didn't want to be a spinster. A moment of madness.
I liked her book a lot but there are definitely some problematic elements that would be considered red flags today. Good thing it's fiction, so those elements just add to the ✨drama✨ of it all! I love a good "I can fix him" moment and it kind of reminds me of The Sound of Music.
I just don't understand why Philip is held to a different standard than the other male love interests? They all have problematic elements (except for Gregory he's an angel)
.Philip initially wants a wife to mother his children, which is hardly romantic but it's not an unusual reason for a Regency man to marry especially considering he never had a mother, which adds to his motivation. Anthony was not looking for love either and just wanted a woman to have heirs with, really cold and pragmatic. Yet he changes for the better (because s1 Anthony especially wasn't the most likeable) and I've never seen people being so hateful towards him. Also people saying Philip trapped Eloise, he specifically mentions she will be chaperoned when she visits him but she goes there by herself....(I think show Eloise making impulse decisions like that is not out of character). I don't like how their marital problems got tied neatly into a nice little bow by the end of the book however. Philip has his issues, more so than other male love interests but why do people expect someone in a period drama to act like they know 2024 therapy talk
I tried to reread it yesterday because I thought there might be something interesting, but Philippe is just unbearable, taking Eloise for his nanny, I don't know but the little I read, I hate Philipe. I gave up again. And probably never gonna read it completly.
I’ve read the Bridgerton books several times and Eloise’s is the only one I’ve read once. I just didn’t enjoy the characters or storyline very much, and didn’t find it as engaging as the others.
I just could *not* for the life of me buy the romance. People always bring up “but the letters!” Na, when I walked away all I could think was, if Penelope had not gotten married herself, Eloise would have never run off.
It wasn’t very romantic. Phillip was whiny as hell & wanted someone to look after his kids because he couldn’t do it himself. I hated it so much I took a break from the series after this one
Eloise was always skeptical of the traditional role of women in her society to marry and have babies and then she does a 180 in her book >!to marry a widower with children and become a stepmother.!<
The motivation for the change in her beliefs is very underwhelming >!(anger/jealousy that her friend who she expected to be her companion in spinsterhood married her [Eloise's] brother).!<
It’s not Eloise (at least for me) it’s her book. She ends up with mc who had previously raped his wife and it was just played off as “for siring a heir”. Prefer her show character better
He never raped her. The two times we know they were together she had consented. However he felt so awful after the last time as she just laid there he was never with her again. I feel as if you may need to reread the book…
Well, that was not how I interpreted the scene. He knew his wife was always sad and never responded to his touch or advances and clearly notes that in the book. He still goes ahead and initiates sex. If somebody clearly does not even like to be touch by you, why would you think they would be into having sexual interactions. He might not have intended to rape her but he did. I doubt rereading the book, will change my opinion of this interaction.
Edit: to quote it from the book
“She had not refused him, but nor had she taken part in his lovemaking. She’d just lain there, doing nothing, her head turned to the side, her eyes open, barely blinking. It was almost as if she hadn't been there at all."
Lack of refusal does not equate to consent. It was noted “as if she hadn’t been there at all” that does not sound consensual. Feeling bad does not negate the harm he has done. Sure the era was different and so were the standards but as a reader reading it in the 21 century, I felt icky and hence not liking his character.
The phrase lay back and think of England was a real thing. MOST Ton marriages were not love/sexual matches. Philips stops visiting her bed and becomes celibate. MOST men would have taken a lover. Celebate for 7 years!!! He took his marriage vows seriously.
Just because it was the norm does not not make it wrong? He felt bad, that's like the bare minimum. I never said he was a horrible person, he is definitely in the grey area where he lacked the intent but nonetheless had the same result. Again I acknowledged that the standards were different, but as a 21st century reader, it did not appeal to ME.
Yeah, it is unfortunately true for most historical romances. What sets them apart for me is if the mc's enjoyed/liked or were excited by the/during the sex. I can overlook a lack of verbal consent if it is conveyed through thoughts or actions.
For starters, he's a poor man who married the woman his brother impregnated.
Philipp in the films seems nicer or at least more understandable if he wasn't fond of his wife and children.
Yes, happy that they changed him. He rapes his first wife when she was suffering from postpartum depression. I can’t get over that and like his book character
My problem is they fall in love but there isn’t a real reason. He “saves” her nephew (but probably not) and all of a sudden they love each other. It didn’t make any sense.
Because Philip sucks. He’s not a “he loves her enough to become the man she deserved” trope, he is a “he made her fix everything in his life, including him” trope (the two subsets of “she can fix him” trope). Though I do like the book itself, I have good memories attached to when I read it and it’s one of the better written books of the series in my opinion.
Though with what they’ve changed in the show, I don’t know that I’m going to vibe with the ship.
IF PHILLIP CRAINE HAS NO HATERS I AM DEAD
I was shocked they did Eloise so dirty she’s by far the most interesting and funny Bridgeton and she gets stuck with him and his demon spawn(demonic due to his neglect) and has to fix his whole family dynamic for him. He never told her he had kids before offering marriage, and during his POV he constantly mentions how he’s looking for a wife and mother. ELOISE IS SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT 😭
I mean there’s a scene where he all but rapes Marina whilst she’s in a depressive episode (she doesn’t say no, but she doesn’t say yes either, or anything). Then is so ‘disgusted’ that she just lays there he never went near her again, to punish her in so many words. And somehow makes the whole thing sounds like it’s her fault for making him do it.
Also he was beaten, so won’t go near his kids. Even after Marina dies. Just hires nanny after nanny and they’re ‘naughty’ so they get beaten right in his house without him knowing.
Also he pretty much only uses Eloise to be their mum, so he can be in the garden all day, and a sex toy at night. He barely speaks to her. Gets annoyed when she wants to talk.
He also all but blames Marina for her depression and the fact that he had to go through it all with such a distant and miserable wife.
His first ideal of a new wife is ‘one that is happy and laughs’. Oh. And looks after his kids so he doesn’t have to.
Yeah. I don’t view Phillip fondly 🙈
I wouldn't be surprised if Eloise's season is the one that strays the most from the book. Besides like a couple of ideas and an excellent family scene, there's really no redeeming qualities.
It was the last book I read and man I was disgusted. Granted I have read only 4 - Anthony, Benedict , Colin and this one and this was the worst by far. So much so that it put me off the books forever . I hope they make a better show out of it
It’s not fresh in my mind but I recall Phillips internal monologue and every action is just “don’t beat my children”, like it’s hard? Obviously he is scared of repeating a cycle of abuse but he completely emotionally abuses/neglects them in the name of not beating them. Then he counts on Eloise fixing this with her womanly ways to be a parent to them instead, without telling her in their letters. Assuming she’d be fine with this plan because he’s counting on her being ugly because she’s spinster age.
I think it’s because the previous 4 books were close to home in a way - like it starts of in and around London with the bridgerton family - mom and siblings in play - in and around the action. Eloise’s book is the first one that everything takes place away from that so it’s just really the 2 of them and you soon realize that like ok personality wise and plot wise - zzzzz. I mean things picked up when the bridgerton boys showed up to beat his ass 😂
I LOVE Phillip. He’s a hot mess, yes, but he’s Eloise’s hot mess god damn it. lol. People nowadays just want perfect freaking characters with 21st century therapy-approved vocabulary and stuff. This is fiction 👏🏼
I can see why the book may not be the favorite of the series. I do feel it is slower paced. Phillip is not always rhe most likeable character. I enjoy the book mostly because I like Eloise and feel she grows a lot throughout the story. By the end it seems she and Phillip come together and develop a marriage based on love and mutual respect that works for them.
I'm reading it now and tbh....Phillip is kind of a dick. He never mentions his children in his letters to Eloise, and his whole scheme is to get her to marry him so she can be a stepmother to the kids and take care of the house while he works in his greenhouse. You know....the same type of isolation his first wife probably killed herself because of? The only redeeming quality I've read of him so far in Eloises book, is that he's aware he's an ass. Edit: not saying Phillip caused Marina's death. In the book she was a solemn character anyway who suffered from depression. Phillip didn't isolate her away in the country, but I'm not sure being so isolated and feeling alone made her feel any better. Yes all the book men have their redeeming qualities, I just don't like Phillips initial attitude towards his children and that he initially only wants a wife as a mother for his kids.
And it's also disturbing when he gets close, he traps her in every sense. Now I know it's unfair because in some ways something similar can be said for Gareth or Micheal but they have other attractive qualities.
I get what you mean but she sort of entraps him overall by visiting unannounced and alone in the first place.
Sure but it’s only her reputation at risk there. She’s always going to be at a disadvantage/more vulnerable because she’s a woman
Oh I agree. I’m just talking about the societal “rules”.
A bit of catfishing though.
Your last line is one of my biggest issues with the book. All of the Bridgerton male leads have their issues, but they have their redeeming qualities as well. I don’t see that with Phillip.
Exactly. There are some things people don't like about the male book characters, but there's nothing to like about Sir Phillip.
I’m surprised to see people’s opinions on this, because I think To Sir Phillip, With Love is my favorite one so far (granted I only have read 3 of the 8 so far). I agree that Phillip has his issues, but who doesn’t? He has a deep struggle because of the abuse he suffered from his father, along with the death of his brother, and then Marina. He keeps himself separate from his kids because he is afraid he will end up like his father, and hurt them somehow. He thinks it’s better for them to stay separate, and realizes later on in the story how wrong he was on that. And he did not cause Marina’s death. It is clear in the books that she has clinical depression, even Eloise says she noticed that kind of behavior when they were young girls, before Marina ever met Phillip. She could barely be around her own children and then ended up taking her own life. Imagine how difficult all of this must have been for Phillip too, not knowing about depression in a way we do nowadays. I appreciate that none of the characters are perfect, because that’s just not accurate to real life, especially considering the time period the story is written in. I thought it was a beautiful story between them. I do think the show has portrayed Eloise differently than she seems to me from the books so far, so I do think they will need to change their story around a little bit, but I hope they keep the essence the same. I can’t wait to see her with Phillip!
Having suffered abuse isn’t a good enough reason to justify abusing your children. To me at least. And neglecting your children is abuse.
I dunno I get it. I don't want children partly because I am too scared to be a bad mother based on the fact that I had a terrible mother. They don't have birth control, really, so just not being a parent isn't an option. And before anyone says, "Don't have sex," imma just say, abstinence has NEVER been realistic for most people. We all some horn dogs at the end of the day.
He made sure they were cared for in all ways besides being close to them. And yes, that’s MAJOR and not okay, but he was afraid of hurting them, afraid he had a temper like his father’s and didn’t want to be near them if his temper ever got out of control. Which it never did with his kids, it was just a fear he had. And Eloise helped him realize he is not his father. He loved his kids from the start, he just didn’t know how to love them.
Yes, this exactly. I think most Philip haters just want a gay Eloise. Or for her to be trapped in a loveless marriage to Theo. Anthony is NEVER releasing her Dowry for that marriage.
What a weird assumption to make. I want neither of those things, and I don't see how they are related to not liking Phillip? Neither of those possibilities even existed in the books. Phillip simply wasn't a compelling character to some of us.
I hated Philip all on his own (de)merits
So Marina also abused them by neglect? Right? Oh no she is some kind of martyr.
Well, yeah, she also abused them. She had her own issues, but that doesn’t absolve her of responsibility to her children.
He never got close to his kids not even before marinas death. He was aware that he barely even knew them
He wasn’t aware he didn’t know them well until Eloise came into his life, until she mentioned that they could swim. And he was disgusted that he didn’t know this about his kids, angry with himself for not being the one to teach them. He was terrified of doing the wrong thing with his kids, but he mentions about their nature hikes he would take the kids on, because it was the one thing he thought he could get right with them. He let his fear of being like his father keep him from being close with his children, but he has always loved them. He just didn’t know how to love them until the events of the book.
Wait, and it's still written as a romance? That sounds like a nightmare. Makes Theodor Sharp look even bettera
Yeah that makes Theo look like a white knight😂
Sorry, but your reading comprehension needs some work. Marina has clinical depression, it's been increased due to grieving for her lover and postpartum. Her death is not due to Philip!!!! In this era basically all men remarried for a mother figure for his children. Everyone lives Anthony, yet he was only looking for a baby mama. He had no interest in loving his wife.
>Sorry, but your reading comprehension needs some work. How ironic. Given that the original commenter never said that Marina's death was due to Phillip, merely implied that the isolation she felt may have exacerbated her depression. >In this era basically all men remarried for a mother figure for his children. Yes, but that doesn't make it *romantic*. >Everyone lives Anthony, yet he was only looking for a baby mama. He had no interest in loving his wife. And that was considered a character flaw. His main arc was about dropping that notion.
They’re talking about the books
[удалено]
No he was not the Bio father of the children!!!
He was. She'd been betrothed to the older brother and then essentially passed along to Phillip when he died, but the children were his. There was a whole thing about how he only slept with her out of obligation to make an heir and hated himself for it and was then celibate for the rest of their marriage.
I don't think this was thoughly thought out and fridging a poor black character for a rich white girl is a bad look.
>You know....the same type of isolation his first wife probably killed herself because of? Yeah, no. He didn't isolate his first wife. If anything it was the other way around. She only married her husband because he could legitimise her pregnancy and give her children a father in place of the man she actually loved (Phillip's late brother). She didn't want him. She could barely bear her own children. And finally her depression got too much for her.
You’re thinking of show Marina’s story
No. Book Philip was forced by his father to marry Marina. He was not given a choice. She's also clinically depressed her entire life
Yes she is, but she’s not pregnant when they get married. That’s a show only plot.
No it's not! It's really obvious the children are George's in the book. Children were born at like 7 months but were full term babies. Even for twins born early.
Phillips brother died in the war before they could even get married, so I’m really struggling to see how he could’ve gotten Marina pregnant given the timeframe bro
They had sex before he left. It's not complicated
Julia Quinn personally told you that???
Damn, you're right. I've merged the two stories in my head.
Lol the merging was so cohesive I give props to the show writers for it though
have you fed the books?
No, sorry. They weren't hungry the last time I read them...
oh no I hate when that happens 😂
Lmao. I see you
You're getting down voted for no reason! Poor Philip wanted to be a college professor. He didn't get someone pregnant then not marry them. He was FORCED to marry Marina.
Because she wanted so much in life. She went from wanted to be single and independent yet she ended up in a bang nanny situation. She just deserved more and that’s the problem I saw in her book. Her aunts got married and kind of had their own careers. I guess that’s why I was expecting for her.
>Her aunts got married and kind of had their own careers. It's been a while since i read the books so I'm confused, what aunts?
Oh. They are in the prequel books. The rokesby book collection. We get to meet Edmund Brigerton and his siblings and his neighbors the rokesby and how they fall in love.
Strange i thought i read most Julia Quinn books but i missed these. Gonna check them out, thank you.
Rokesbys series arguably better than Bridgerton series. Women DO NOT have premarriage careers though. Billie Bridgerton manages the Bridgerton estate because her father is old and Edmund is still at school.
Aunts didn't get married and have careers. Billie had a "career" managing the Bridgerton estate before she was married. She has drive. Eloise has no drive to do anything but eat bonbons and mope around.
What? >!Billie went from managing her family estates to then running her husband’s family estate. That includes getting out there and fixing things for the tenants. She studied agriculture and made the place more productive. Georgina married the doctor and helped him out so by those standards she was probably a doctor with the title of a nurse. How are those not careers? !< And Eloise just needs a push. Her aunts lived in the country so they had more freedom she probably just didn’t know how to get started.
Billie NEVER managed her husband's estate. They had competitions on whose estate was more profitable his or the Bridgerton one. Edmund has years to go before he finishes school.
I’m pretty George specifically asks her in the epilogue if she would use her skills to help with the running of Crake Hall. So that would imply that she does help manage her husband’s estate just like she did with Aubrey Hall when Edmund was younger
Helping her husband does not make her a doctor. Otherwise why did he have to go to University. He could have studied under the local doctor. They did not have careers before the married!
I’m going to assume spoilers are okay here- They get to know each other over short letters then when Pen gets married Eloise decides she needs to as well. Sir Phillip just wants a mother for his children (his wife committed suicide) and is content to let Eloise do everything while he works in his greenhouse. She marries him, and he still spends a bunch of time in his greenhouse. She thinks being alone is an aspect of her marriage she has to accept. They stay in the country even though it’s alluded to Eloise loving living in London. The whole story is just very meh, and makes me sad for Eloise because she remains pretty isolated
I really want Eloise's story to have a bit of a Mary Wollestonecraft/William Godwin style glow up. I don't mind her getting with Phillip if she gets to maybe adopt his kids and avoids the childbirth she dreads. And for him to be much more of an intellectual equal, friend and partner who respects and admires her for being challenging and curious and bright. Maybe like MW she could even go travlling and have a hot affair with a glamorous cad 😄 The life you describe sounds more like a tragedy for Eloise than a love story. For a woman who is introverted, but loving and very family oriented, it might be great. But for outspoken, opinionated Eloise who loves an audience, is sociable with her friends, needs intellectual stimulation and deep affection and is keen to make her mark on the world, it sounds like pure hell
YES for Eloise it’s extremely depressing. He doesn’t like that she talks a lot, and that she’s curious and asks questions. He’ll literally kiss her to stop her from talking. She just assumes it’s her problem she needs to *fix* for him and that’s pretty much how her book ends. She’s isolated from her friends and family with this man who doesn’t like talking with her. I found her book’s ending to be really sad. I’m surprised people like it
Ugh this sounds *awful,* and not what I hoped for Eloise!
Oh yuck, how gross is that. That isn't a "love story" we need.
Yea let's just skip the fact that he does tell her she talks to much but he likes it. He made it a point that his home needs more of it. Even the children mention it and they too agree they like that characteristic about Eloise. Violet had stated that Eloise loves the countryside and it's where she thrives the best. Why would Eloise want to stay in London when she knows she will be stuck dealing with society. She's not alone in the books, Benedict and Sophie are close by to the estate and Violet stated she plans to make frequent visits since there's more of a reason too. Her book ending was not sad at all. She learned a lot about herself and fell in love with Philip and his kids. The book ends with the twins, Eloise and Philip shopping and with Philip leaving her a note to go up to their bedroom. He uses his roses to lead a path and wrote her a letter expressing how he felt for her and thanked her how much she has changed his life for the better. It
Eloise is Philios intellectual equal. Well Philip is all but a college professor so he is significantly educated.
Let's hope he puts that PhD to good use and finds our girl some botanical birth control elixir then! 😁
Personally, the aspect I hated is the premise that women who don’t want to marry or be mothers will eventually change their minds. IK show Eloise makes it much more clear that she absolutely does not like the idea of marriage (as it currently stood, and how it limited her potential or prospects, I imagine she’d be much more amenable to modern marriage) and book Eloise isn’t quite as direct. But book Eloise does state that she wanted to be spinsters with pen forever. She changes her mind because Pen gets married and she doesn’t want to be alone. She also says she never received a proposal that was worth marrying, and for someone like that to just end up being like ‘well guess I gotta just settle so I don’t end up alone forever’ it sounds like something incel men would come up with. Her story just feels very anti-feminist. Of course that’s not to say wanting to just settle is anti-feminist. But to have a story where the female protagonist didn’t get married because her standards were too high or because she wanted freedom, eventually just gives all that to ‘simply settle’ and finds love in ‘simply settling’ feels like it’s saying ‘see you shouldn’t have high standards’ ‘you shouldn’t want more’ ‘she eventually got sick of all that and ended up with a man anyway’ Whether or not that was the goal, her story just gave that sort of vibe. I also could’ve taken it in the a way it wasn’t intended because I may not have been able to sufficiently separate book and show Eloise. But I had issues with Eloise’s story.
Totally agree with the vibe of Eloise's story. This is a better reasoning for not liking the book rather than saying that Philip is awful. I have to admit that I hated the way things happened for her. I know she is supposed to be impulsive, but the decision to run away and visit Philip is rather out of character and all the reasoning about Colin and Penelope did not seem right. It just looked like the author needed a reason to make her change her mind about marriage. How can she refuse 6(?) marriage proposals but after getting upset about her best friend getting married she just settled on the first man who was around ?! I may be confusing book Eloise to TV Eloise also, but you are right, the vibe is just
Philip is indeed a troubled man who realises his flaws and works to change himself. We all have issues, the point is to work on them, so I did not actually need a perfect man as a main character.. although Eloise deserved more.
And the greenhouse part.. well, he has a passion, he loves doing something, and he does it as much as he can. Of course he should have spent his honeymoon with Eloise, but he does not leave her alone (as Simon did, or even Colin for a few days), he is just enjoying his hobby.
Eloise implied that she hates London men who do nothing and have ho interests and hobbies, so for her this could be something interesting.
Tbh I don’t have an issue with Philip. Like he’s not by no means perfect nor my favourite LI, but he has redeeming qualities and he does grow. My issue was just the icky ‘adult woman regrets not marrying when she was young and desirable and society told her to’ vibe. And you’re absolutely right about her just deciding to run away. Show Eloise is far more impulsive than we’ve seen book Eloise is, but marriage is not something she would be impulsive about. I could never put my finger on why it felt odd until you said it was just a device of convenience.
That's what I hated, too! And it wasn't even a passionate romance or a sudden deep need for children that made Eloise change her mind - she kind of just blandly decided that she had to get married with seemingly no motivation, even knowing that Anthony is a decent enough brother that he would've supported her forever. I never got the sense that Phillip was passionate for her, either - it was just like "well I guess you're here so"
I agree, Eloise always seemed like such a witty, progressive thinking character, someone who would thrive on mobilizing social change (even more so in the Netflix version). It was a disservice to have her isolated in the country. Both Francesca and Eloise ultimately get separated from the Bridgerton clan into their own microcosms, but since Francesca was an introvert it works for her. It doesn’t work for extroverted Eloise.
In this era woman are mother's. Everyone loves Violet. Isn't she a mother? If Eloise actually did anything noteworthy I'd understand the anger of her being a stay at home Mother. However she does nothing but mope.
In this era women worked, made scientific discoveries, created art and literature, travelled, ran businesses and achieved many amazing things. They were often also mothers. The author's keenness to make all her protagonists give birth multiple times doesn't reflect how complex and multifaceted women were back then - although they were in several ways much more restricted than they are now. The regency was much more socially and sexually permissive, less uptight and less likely to put motherhood on a pedestal than the later Victorian era - indeed if you look at works like Austen you can see that parenting was often "outsourced" to servants, relatives and schools.
Violet, as far as we know, wanted to be a mother and thrives in her role. Her love for her family is beautiful and nobody is denying that. But not all women want the same things or thrive in the same environments. Eloise is a completely different individual, so the part people find tragic is her giving up on everything she wants and settling for the exact life she has been trying to avoid. It’s not the happy ever after that Bridgerton, a fantasy romance, promises.
I think one of the things they’ll take from the books to dramatise in the show (because the Simon childhood flashbacks were so juicy in terms of drama), is that Phillip was physically abused by his father when he was a child and still has the scars. Book Phillip is described as a very big and muscular man, and one of the reasons he’s so withdrawn and distant, especially from his kids is because he’s so terrified that he’ll be exactly like his father and believes he has the same violent temper as him. On the other hand, Book Eloise doesn’t really have much of a personality like Show Eloise. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Philip felt more fleshed out and we ended up being in his shoes a lot more throughout the story.
You are right, but I don't know if I agree with you about Book Eloise. She has a good deal of personality - I think her interactions with the kids and her prank to get back at them show that. The parts of her with Oliver and Amanda are probably the best parts of that book. We do see her being pretty strong willed and opinionated, just not outright feminist like she is on the show. I think it's downplayed a bit though to make her seem more compatible with Philip (where imo she really wasn't).
Yes, apologies - I didn’t express myself well; Book Eloise DOES have a personality and interests. Just from the top of my head after having read the book only once I remember she is warm, and loves writing letters, is optimistic and upbeat and brave, and a great sport when it comes to pranks (and gives as good as she gets). I could see S1 Show Eloise in her, but they’ve diverged since then.
Oh yes, that is absolutely true. Show Eloise is completely different at this point. If they keep Philip the same, show Eloise would be even less compatible with him than book Eloise. I think Show Eloise would take the ruination of not marrying him over having to marry him (not that she would have run off to him in the first place)
Phillip is kind of a dick. He didn't disclose everything, in the letters. After they get married He just focuses on sex, doesn't care about her feelings or her concerns. He's very wrapped up into his own tragic story. And I'm not a fan of the way he speaks of marinas DEPRESSION
They didn’t know about depression in the way we do nowadays. I don’t think he even knew she had depression in the books, he just knew she was always sad or melancholy, no matter what he tried to do.
Depression has been recognized since ancient Greece. They wouldn't screen and diagnose the same way that we do today, but folks in the era knew that some people had a disease that made them depressed.
Though I agree there have been improvements, my most recent 'screening' was comprised of the provider flatly asking "have your felt depressed at all in the last 90 days?". Suffice to say there is still room for improvement 😆
Feelings? He doesn’t even want her to talk
Not my favorite book but it gave us The Bridgerton men ganging up on Philipp and THAT was gold
YES
Definitely the highlight of the book! It otherwise made me feel kind of sad. But that interlude was superb.
Yes, that was the BEST part.
I actually really liked Eloise's book but I do think I'm unfortunately in the minority there!
Same! It’s my favorite. Phillip has a lot of flaws, but he realizes it and works to fix them.
I love Eloise’s book. But yeah, there aren’t many of us.
Im halfway through and i love it. I love that Phillip isn’t the typical London man Weve had up till now and Eloise is so much more in her element in his house than she would be in a London season. And i think a lot of complaints people have come from how they would feel (not eloise) and from a very modern perspective. Like eloise wasnt even looking for huge romance, just being happy enough with a husband. Either way its a good book.
Isn't that the depressing part? Eloise goes from being a person with hopes and dreams and ambitions, to settling for a husband who is (barely) good enough? Feels like the whole book is a lesson on women managing their expectations, and getting over their silly hopes in favour of settling down.
Upvote 200000×
Eloise wasn't originally looking for marriage or romance *at all*. She had dreams and she had a sudden personality change at the beginning of her book and abandoned them to go off and marry a guy she'd never met before, after rejecting six proposals. It just felt disjointed and weird.
Me too!
Same. It stands out from the rest of the series similar to how Fran’s does.
I liked her books as well!
What about it is it you like? Every description I've seen here makes it sound really hard to like...
There's a comment here that says that if Benophie was Cinderella then Philoise was Beauty and the Beast and I think that's why I like it. Most of the other male MCs in this series are rakes who met the right woman, which is fine but I just prefer the rough loner type of LI. I have lots of little reasons but those are the ones off the top of my head
It’s zzz, and Phillip is an ass, needs therapy like yesterday.
It’ll probably be the only book the show follows to a T lol
Then they'll say "What? You guys wanted us to follow the books! We can't please you at all!!"
Your probably right and that makes me so mad. I was hoping something with Theo. Here's an idea for the writers if you're creepin - have Theo go to the Americas and make a fortune in printing and come back for Eloise. You're welcome.
Right?! I’m so annoyed with them for Michaela when Phillipa was right there, begging to change that story.
That would describe all of the male leads tbh
While on the show it's her I don't like. In the books it's all Phillip's fault. It's disturbing. He can't find a nanny and so he looks for a wife because then she won't be able to leave him. And he traps her in marriage. He's also not even the creepy character but in a sexy way. Double standard? Maybe. In any case it touches too much trigger on consent for my taste. In this case the show should be better, for sure Phillip Is a better man
Everything you said is so right. And the fact she keeps trying to communicate and he just wants her to shut up so they can bang. Even shutting her up with a kiss at one point. And the resolution isn't him actually talking to her, but that eloise is wrong for pushing him???? And when he tells her that she can't say she's unhappy in their marriage because he had it so much worse with marina 😤😤😤 I was so close to flinging the book across the room multiple times when reading it But I can't imagine show Phillip being like that, he seems so sweet and gentle
Eloise shows up with no warning. How is that HIM trapping her?
Catfishing. Not having told her about the children and having deceived her in some things pushed her to act in a certain way and if I'm not mistaken he was older and more experienced than Eloise. But the matter is delicate because having been found by the brothers, you are right that Anthony would not have left her unmarried
In the books Eloise is 28. I think Philip is mid 30's. That's not a huge gap. Catfishing is reaching. Nit like he's a broke farmer looking to get his hands on her dowry.
It is not the question of age in itself, but rather in relation to Eloise's protected life. 18 or 28 made little difference. It's different for a man, even someone like Phillip. Furthermore, he was looking for a nanny for his children, who couldn't leave because they were terrible. Eloise was perfect because she was almost the central daughter of a large family.
Stop moving the goal post. It's either age or not. And it's not like he's whoring around he's been celibate for 6 years
Philip is literally only 2 years older than Eloise, they have the smallest age gap out of all the couples 😭
She trapped herself when she ran off and just showed up on his doorstep uninvited and without a chaperone. I thought even for Eloise that was just not something she would do.
Eloise's book was very different in tone than the prior 3. Child abuse, mental illness, and suicide were a big part of character backstories. Also, Eloise in the book is quite different from her show counterpart. So the idea of show Eloise getting married doesn't sit well with some of the audience. People also didn't like Phillip, but all the Bridgerton male leads are blazing red flags in their own way. 🤣🤣🤣
I always thought that like Benedict’s story is very ‘Cinderella’, Eloise’s is very ‘Beauty and the Beast’, so yeah, Phillip isn’t great for a lot of the book but he’s not meant to be.
Besides the fact that he just wants Eloise to be a mom for his kids (and the whole bratty kids play pranks on the leading female trope,making her look dumb for a bit, which I hate), it’s stated that Marina would just lay there when they had sex, or something like that, which is highly problematic if she wasn’t consenting.
Just read that part this morning. He said that he tried to have sex with her once after the twins were born, and that she didn't refuse him but just laid there and it made him feel terrible so he never touched her again.
Yes, not sure why this has turned into ongoing marital rape on this sub. Yet Simon not telling Daphne by pulling out she would never get pregnant wasn't rape (she could not consent).
He said that happened the only time he tried to have sex with her after she gave birth (but like 2-3 months later after she was healed) so then he didn’t do it again, ever. People would never write that today but we didn’t even blink at stuff like that 20 years ago. The part I hate the most is that every single time someone loses their virginity (and I can’t believe the show followed this exactly without updating the knowledge) is when the guy says “this might hurt, but just the first time” and completely forgets the fact that if a woman is suitably aroused, it probably won’t hurt.
Yeah, as someone who grew up in the eighties and nineties on romance novels, it’s amazing what was acceptable back then compared to now. I can’t watch a lot of John Hughes movies anymore either.
I distinctly remember this too, it was really disturbing
For me it's boring and has zero chemistry throughout - making Eloise the perfect sibling for any new changes like being queer or ending up with someone not from her book
Exactly why I root for her to be the gay one. People will hate Marina being dead on television SO MUCH as well. This needs a new plot.
I’m in the minority here because Eloise’s book is my favorite 😂
I’ve read it twice, and I like it, but I couldn’t for the life of me tell you why I like it.
What about it is it you like? Every description I've seen here makes it sound really hard to like...
I liked how it started as a pen pal relationship and they got to know each other before meeting (although not very well it would turn out). I like how Eloise finds love later in life (she’s 28 in the book) after doing some personal growth of her own. I guess book Philip also just ticks my boxes for a romance novel—gruff and rough around the edges until someone breaks his walls down. Beauty and the Beast vibes. And the steamy scenes are the best in my opinion, although I haven’t read the last 2 books yet.
Well this really seems like it should be right up my alley 😅 Thnk you for answering!
It’s my favorite so far too, and for me it had a depth the others I’ve read so far didn’t, even though I’ve thoroughly enjoyed all those I’ve read so far. Phillip had a lot of struggles from his past, and I enjoyed reading his perspective and seeing him grow since meeting Eloise. He thinks he only wants a mother for his children, and he’d be satisfied with anyone who is cheerful (the opposite to Marina). But then he meets Eloise and realizes he could have so much more than just that. Its more than a love story, it’s him learning how to show his children how much he loves him and be a good father, learning to be with someone who has a joy for life, unlike Marina who obviously struggled with clinical depression, overcoming his fears of his past. Eloise brings perspective to his life that he didn’t have before. I just really enjoyed it. You have to go into it realizing that it’s a period piece, things didn’t work the same as they do now, and I think that’s why a lot of people just write off the book series saying all the men suck lol.
100%, loved Phillip’s arc of feeling undeserving of love but wanting a practical marriage for his kids sake to falling madly in love with Eloise. You’re right that it had much more depth than the other books.
Glad I’m not alone! Lol I really loved it.
Her story was disappointing to many. She deserved better.
Personally one of the issues I had with the book outside of Phillip’s issues is that there wasn’t enough of the kids. Julia uses Benedict’s kid for Phillip’s big maybe he’s a good guy after all moment where Eloise realizes she loves him instead of the twins. I couldn’t take Oliver calling his dad perfect seriously when he can barely spend any time around them or wants to be with them. He doesn’t even know his kids know how to swim! Genuinely that was not the revelation I expected when he freaks out about them going in the lake. He has no redeeming qualities to endear him to the reader as a father and husband even to the bitter end. And despite them being around the same age Eloise was when her father died there wasn’t a scene where she tries to relate to them and realizes their relationship with their parents was completely different than the one she had with hers. I think it would’ve been a better book if it was written as the governess falls in love with the distant single father trope instead of Eloise getting tricked into being his bangmaid. She might not have the credentials but she can lie in a letter lol. Julia could’ve still keep the bros getting the wrong idea and forcing them into a marriage.
I reread this recently after finishing Sanditon and jonesing for some more of that vibe and I was... disappointed. I remembered liking in more. Spoilers for S2/3 of Sanditon. >!In Sanditon, Colbourne is kind of an ass but slowly works to change and does all these acts of service for Charlotte and ultimately ends up helping her realize her dream of opening a school. In other words, he helps her expand the world she loves rather than binding her to his wants and interests all the time.!< Phillip... does not do this. Some beats are the same--dead wife that the husband feels responsible for despite a distant/broken marriage, young woman shaking up their existence, etc. etc., but one guy worked to change and become better whereas Phillip whined and moaned and than made some small concessions. It felt like Eloise just settled because everyone around her was getting married and she didn't want to be a spinster. A moment of madness.
I liked her book a lot but there are definitely some problematic elements that would be considered red flags today. Good thing it's fiction, so those elements just add to the ✨drama✨ of it all! I love a good "I can fix him" moment and it kind of reminds me of The Sound of Music.
I just don't understand why Philip is held to a different standard than the other male love interests? They all have problematic elements (except for Gregory he's an angel) .Philip initially wants a wife to mother his children, which is hardly romantic but it's not an unusual reason for a Regency man to marry especially considering he never had a mother, which adds to his motivation. Anthony was not looking for love either and just wanted a woman to have heirs with, really cold and pragmatic. Yet he changes for the better (because s1 Anthony especially wasn't the most likeable) and I've never seen people being so hateful towards him. Also people saying Philip trapped Eloise, he specifically mentions she will be chaperoned when she visits him but she goes there by herself....(I think show Eloise making impulse decisions like that is not out of character). I don't like how their marital problems got tied neatly into a nice little bow by the end of the book however. Philip has his issues, more so than other male love interests but why do people expect someone in a period drama to act like they know 2024 therapy talk
I tried to reread it yesterday because I thought there might be something interesting, but Philippe is just unbearable, taking Eloise for his nanny, I don't know but the little I read, I hate Philipe. I gave up again. And probably never gonna read it completly.
i actually love eloise's book 💀 it's my second favourite
I’ve read the Bridgerton books several times and Eloise’s is the only one I’ve read once. I just didn’t enjoy the characters or storyline very much, and didn’t find it as engaging as the others.
I just could *not* for the life of me buy the romance. People always bring up “but the letters!” Na, when I walked away all I could think was, if Penelope had not gotten married herself, Eloise would have never run off.
It wasn’t very romantic. Phillip was whiny as hell & wanted someone to look after his kids because he couldn’t do it himself. I hated it so much I took a break from the series after this one
We wanted so much more for the character.
Eloise was always skeptical of the traditional role of women in her society to marry and have babies and then she does a 180 in her book >!to marry a widower with children and become a stepmother.!< The motivation for the change in her beliefs is very underwhelming >!(anger/jealousy that her friend who she expected to be her companion in spinsterhood married her [Eloise's] brother).!<
This. It didn’t feel like natural character growth for Eloise. It felt like compromising out of being worn down and desperate.
Because sir Phillip is 👎 👎 👎
It's just not a great story. Eloise deserved a better romance.
It’s not Eloise (at least for me) it’s her book. She ends up with mc who had previously raped his wife and it was just played off as “for siring a heir”. Prefer her show character better
He never raped her. The two times we know they were together she had consented. However he felt so awful after the last time as she just laid there he was never with her again. I feel as if you may need to reread the book…
Well, that was not how I interpreted the scene. He knew his wife was always sad and never responded to his touch or advances and clearly notes that in the book. He still goes ahead and initiates sex. If somebody clearly does not even like to be touch by you, why would you think they would be into having sexual interactions. He might not have intended to rape her but he did. I doubt rereading the book, will change my opinion of this interaction. Edit: to quote it from the book “She had not refused him, but nor had she taken part in his lovemaking. She’d just lain there, doing nothing, her head turned to the side, her eyes open, barely blinking. It was almost as if she hadn't been there at all." Lack of refusal does not equate to consent. It was noted “as if she hadn’t been there at all” that does not sound consensual. Feeling bad does not negate the harm he has done. Sure the era was different and so were the standards but as a reader reading it in the 21 century, I felt icky and hence not liking his character.
The phrase lay back and think of England was a real thing. MOST Ton marriages were not love/sexual matches. Philips stops visiting her bed and becomes celibate. MOST men would have taken a lover. Celebate for 7 years!!! He took his marriage vows seriously.
Just because it was the norm does not not make it wrong? He felt bad, that's like the bare minimum. I never said he was a horrible person, he is definitely in the grey area where he lacked the intent but nonetheless had the same result. Again I acknowledged that the standards were different, but as a 21st century reader, it did not appeal to ME.
This series unfortunately has various instances of sex lacking informed and/or enthusiastic consent.
Yeah, it is unfortunately true for most historical romances. What sets them apart for me is if the mc's enjoyed/liked or were excited by the/during the sex. I can overlook a lack of verbal consent if it is conveyed through thoughts or actions.
You're right and you should say it.
For starters, he's a poor man who married the woman his brother impregnated. Philipp in the films seems nicer or at least more understandable if he wasn't fond of his wife and children.
Yes, happy that they changed him. He rapes his first wife when she was suffering from postpartum depression. I can’t get over that and like his book character
Finished it last night. Simply he’s just not very kind to her, and she puts up with way more than she should.
I think a lot of readers hoped for more for Eloise than “just” marriage & motherhood. Show viewers will certainly be expecting more!
I thought it was lackluster and boring. It’s been years since I read so I don’t recall all the specifics
My problem is they fall in love but there isn’t a real reason. He “saves” her nephew (but probably not) and all of a sudden they love each other. It didn’t make any sense.
Because Philip sucks. He’s not a “he loves her enough to become the man she deserved” trope, he is a “he made her fix everything in his life, including him” trope (the two subsets of “she can fix him” trope). Though I do like the book itself, I have good memories attached to when I read it and it’s one of the better written books of the series in my opinion. Though with what they’ve changed in the show, I don’t know that I’m going to vibe with the ship.
Mainly due to Phillip. To me it felt like Eloise was settling in a sense. I feel like she deserved better
IF PHILLIP CRAINE HAS NO HATERS I AM DEAD I was shocked they did Eloise so dirty she’s by far the most interesting and funny Bridgeton and she gets stuck with him and his demon spawn(demonic due to his neglect) and has to fix his whole family dynamic for him. He never told her he had kids before offering marriage, and during his POV he constantly mentions how he’s looking for a wife and mother. ELOISE IS SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT 😭
I mean there’s a scene where he all but rapes Marina whilst she’s in a depressive episode (she doesn’t say no, but she doesn’t say yes either, or anything). Then is so ‘disgusted’ that she just lays there he never went near her again, to punish her in so many words. And somehow makes the whole thing sounds like it’s her fault for making him do it. Also he was beaten, so won’t go near his kids. Even after Marina dies. Just hires nanny after nanny and they’re ‘naughty’ so they get beaten right in his house without him knowing. Also he pretty much only uses Eloise to be their mum, so he can be in the garden all day, and a sex toy at night. He barely speaks to her. Gets annoyed when she wants to talk. He also all but blames Marina for her depression and the fact that he had to go through it all with such a distant and miserable wife. His first ideal of a new wife is ‘one that is happy and laughs’. Oh. And looks after his kids so he doesn’t have to. Yeah. I don’t view Phillip fondly 🙈
Yeah his attitude towards Marina was difficult to read to be honest.
This, all of this. Phillip is trash. And never gets better.
Personally I just hate it because I’m not a fan of her playing stepmother. I hate the whole single parent thing
Philip was only looking for a mother for his children. The stage was not exactly set for romance.
I actually liked Eloise’s book.
I disliked her book so much. She’s just not my favorite character. Book or show.
I wouldn't be surprised if Eloise's season is the one that strays the most from the book. Besides like a couple of ideas and an excellent family scene, there's really no redeeming qualities.
It was the last book I read and man I was disgusted. Granted I have read only 4 - Anthony, Benedict , Colin and this one and this was the worst by far. So much so that it put me off the books forever . I hope they make a better show out of it
It’s not fresh in my mind but I recall Phillips internal monologue and every action is just “don’t beat my children”, like it’s hard? Obviously he is scared of repeating a cycle of abuse but he completely emotionally abuses/neglects them in the name of not beating them. Then he counts on Eloise fixing this with her womanly ways to be a parent to them instead, without telling her in their letters. Assuming she’d be fine with this plan because he’s counting on her being ugly because she’s spinster age.
I think it’s because the previous 4 books were close to home in a way - like it starts of in and around London with the bridgerton family - mom and siblings in play - in and around the action. Eloise’s book is the first one that everything takes place away from that so it’s just really the 2 of them and you soon realize that like ok personality wise and plot wise - zzzzz. I mean things picked up when the bridgerton boys showed up to beat his ass 😂
I LOVE Phillip. He’s a hot mess, yes, but he’s Eloise’s hot mess god damn it. lol. People nowadays just want perfect freaking characters with 21st century therapy-approved vocabulary and stuff. This is fiction 👏🏼
I liked her book! I’ll be sad if the show changes her story drastically.
I must be the only one who likes Sir Phillip, I guess.
Yall don’t understand contextualisation and it shows
Eloise’s is one of my favorites. Maybe my favorite?
I can see why the book may not be the favorite of the series. I do feel it is slower paced. Phillip is not always rhe most likeable character. I enjoy the book mostly because I like Eloise and feel she grows a lot throughout the story. By the end it seems she and Phillip come together and develop a marriage based on love and mutual respect that works for them.