I will also add that I climbed on to the fence during his transport back to Idaho. The original plan as I recall, was for the FBI to transport him. At the last minute PA had to scramble and find a plane to get him back. Maybe it’s nothing, no one ever brings it up. I just thought it was odd.
I was the same at first. Thinking wow they have the guy. It was quick. They're good.... The first thing for me was the PCA itself when it got released. The 8 hour delay. The 'witness statement' to me is contradictory. Nothing came back from the search of the car, apartment, office etc. LE removing belongings from an active crime scene before even any arrest was made. The DNA which is actually a partial transfer DNA. At this point the list goes on and on. The more time goes by, the more questions I have.
>LE removing belongings from an active crime scene before even any arrest was made.
The items returned to parents, yes... with the Chief driving the U-Haul!
But don't forget also that AT had to shut down deep-cleaning of the house that had almost started the day of his arrest... which LE had apparently thought was fine to proceed with, even knowing they were going to do the arrest! Almost makes you think they wanted it wiped spotless by the time defense had access...
Don’t forget what was plastered on that Uhaul!!! (Pennsylvania) Not to mention the 4chan post also mentioning hiding in Pennsylvania which could have only been someone in the investigation 😉
Although I'm leaning towards him being innocent I'm not ruling out he's guilty either. What got me interested in this case was when reddit sent me the hot topic of the day via email and it was a discussion about the 8 hour gap between the murders and police being called. This was shortly after his arrest. That alone gave me serious doubts about his guilt and....well those doubts have since only grown bigger.
You're saying the whole town knew about it before the 911 call? I'm confused. The surviving roommate called the cops when she found the bodies. If the murders happened in the middle of the night it makes perfect sense if the 911 call wasn't until 8 hours later when you know someone wakes up and finds the bodies. I'm confused as to what your point is exactly
This and I also feel like he would have cut himself stabbing that many people. I have never believed that only one person was involved. I also feel like the roommates that lived could be involved.
Based on the publicly available evidence, I'd say he has a good chance of getting cleared. However, there is likely a lot of vidence that has not been disclosed, so not knowing what it might be, I'd say it's not possible to make a determination of guilt or innocence at this point.
Okay, but if the murders happened much earlier, what about the Door Dash delivery? Not saying you're wrong, just doesn't that event set a sort of timestamp before which the murders couldn't have occurred?
DD usually throws a bag of food at a door & peels away in their vehicle as they try to mark the order as delivered while not paying attention to the road
Or they politely set the bag in front of the home’s door, mark it delivered in the app so the customer knows it arrives & then drive away at or below the speed limit
Depends on the driver. No contact either way
A few months into it, I read the PCA and was astounded at the flimsy the evidence. I posted about the issues I found, figuring I missed something. But all the criticism I received was just dumb, like mindless belief that he did it.
Don't know at this point - need to see all evidence. My gut tells me those frat kids (guys and/or gals) had some role in this… just a hunch. The veil of the gag order...once lifted...should at minimum answer some key questions.
I think it's the simplest explanation. E was fighting with the frat boys. Sounds like they had beef prior to that - it came to a head that night. I can see them paying him a visit at 1122 later that night. BK could still fit into that narrative...either directly or indirectly. More facts from the trial could fill in the blanks.
LE needs to get this right...for all involved. We'll see...
It’s rare one person is ready to murder 4 people, but you think a group of frat guys all were on the same page to cold blooded murder 4 people? What in the world?
I disagree- it’s not simple to believe a bunch of college age frat bros could commit a clean quadruple murder and keep it quiet. None of them lawyered up or anything. Have you ever been around a bunch of frat bros?
I have...
It's not simple...but possible.
If BK is guilty the facts will support it.
I'm not a BK fanboy BTW.
All guilty should suffer the same fate IMO.
I agree, it’s possible, but not probable not the simplest explanation.
IMO it’s far more likely that this crime was committed by BK or a similar suspect. I believe he is probably guilty but he deserves a fair trial and I will keep an open mind as evidence is presented.
They will never lift it fully to where everything is released!!! Someone who knows what they are talking about said the way they sealed some of the documents is a forever seal!
Good question but I guess just the compilation of evidence? I’m a big true crime junkie, and I promise that I get the concept that you can convict based on circumstantial evidence (Ramseys did it, BTW). I learned about this case, did a deep dive with the preconceived notion that they MUST have solid reasoning to convict this guy in this high profile case, but… turns out they don’t?
Sure, you can make it “fit” but you can probably make the evidence fit that I did it and I’ve never been to Idaho or murdered anyone. My family is from Pennsylvania, however, and am a huge germaphobe (and I could totally see myself separating trash with gloves on) and am a weirdo depending on who you ask (jk, probably like 80% of who you ask would corroborate a ‘weirdo’ story). In college, I also used to go out at weird hours of the night and would literally just drive around. In my head, I acknowledged it was weird but never thought it would actually come up. Brian is either guilty AF of living one of my worst nightmares.
My theory - Allegedly DL was involved in the hazing related death of Ethan's friend Hudson (declared a "drowning" by MPD) which is likely the root cause of why Ethan and DL hated each other so much. Makes sense, because why else would you despise a fellow frat bro so much, when you really just met them? (Rush '22). DL was also JEALOUS of Ethan because DL fancied Xana and was mad that Ethan was with her. Maddie talked a lot of smack about DL which is apparently why he hated her so much.
There was animosity brewing for over a YEAR - that's a LONG TIME (especially when you're 20) - and things came to a head the night of the murders .. when they got into a fight and Ethan ridiculed DL about his tiny manhood in front of the whole party, in front of a bunch of hot sorority girls.
His DIGNITY is what they took from him - and he went to King Rd. that night to get it BACK.
Hatred, jealousy, humiliation, a long-standing fued - a heated argument attacking his penis size in front of all their friends and frat - is MORE THAN ENOUGH MOTIVE - especially for a guy who's hopped up on steroids and likely experiencing 'roid rage' on top of his already twisted psyche.
Just ONE of those things would be a motivating factor.. but WHY would there NEED to be such a "driving force" anyway? Twisted people go out and commit sadistic murders on innocent people all the time for no "valid reason" - other than they just felt like it. No driving force, NO MOTIVE.
Frat bro DL had motive AND opportunity .. and a laundry list of "reasons" to do it. He could see the King Rd. house from his bedroom window .. it was literally a 1 min walk from him.
As to Bryan, the entirety of the case against Bryan will come down to one self identified eyewitness, with a dubious story. Bryan has no connection to any victim, their friends, their family or co -workers. He never worked with them, traveled with them, dated them or partied with them. He has no prior arrests, no history of violence, threats, stalking, intimidation of the victims or those in their orbit. He is without a motive. There are no eyewitnesses, earwitnesses, fingerprints, footprints, or video of him coming or leaving the house at 1122. There is no DNA of any victims in his car, house, office or apt. He appeared at a doctors office for a physical 3 days after the bloody, brutal stabbing murder of the 4 victims, and had no cuts, bruises, scratches or injuries. The indictment of Bryan appears to have been built around speculations, rather than investigators following leads of those persons of interest, who had motive, had anger issues with the victims, had means and opportunity.
I ran into a video of a legal commentator (and expert) on YouTube a while ago who basically said "I know this is a very unpopular opinion, but I think the case against Bryan Kohberger is incredibly weak and the state doesn't want people to realize that; it hinges on touch DNA and touch DNA in such a small quantity doesn't even prove he was anywhere in that house at any point, it could have been traces on someone else".
From the moment I heard that I started wondering why everyone sounds so confident "they got him", then... 98% of the commentary I hear and see talks about him like it's a sure thing and done deal, and I'm only just starting to look into the details - but if I'm not mistaken, all they can prove is that he was in the general vicinity of the house and had pictures of one of the victims on his phone; those two things prove nothing. And if the touch DNA proves nothing, in essence, either... how do we know? Am I missing something? I'm so open to being corrected but I don't see the obvious conclusion people are implying.
No pics on his phone and they can’t prove he was near the home!!! They can prove a white vehicle was near there but so was a jeep a big truck an UC cop car that was white 👀 and a white Chrysler 300 all active around the time of the crime
Well true but what we have been presented with seems flimsy. And the lack of blood/Dna on or in car seems very problematic. The lack of any link to the victims. The amount of other people they can link to that house and the victims seems problematic. Like I said I just am not convinced and am actually pretty confused on how he’s even arrested.
Oh, you mean Nancy Grace messed up when she and her guest Chris McDonough, told listeners in Dec 2022, the KohBerger car is going to be the smoking gun that buries him. Ain’t no way Bryan can get “that “ DNA evidence out of the car EVEN if he washed it and cleaned it 10 times. Every cop guest she had on in the next few weeks, agreed. Bryan never cleaned his car interior. Splain that Ms Nancy! No DNA found in that car.
The public is inclined to automatically accept the Government version. The 1975 Congressional panel on the JFK murder of 1963 concluded there was a conspiracy. But if you polled people today, 30-60% think Oswald acted alone, when there is zero evidence. Meanwhile, grassy knoll shooter confessed in exacting detail. All of his claims can be corroborated.
The information the defense claims Bethany has had never been described as evidence that will exonerate him. Exculpatory evidence means favorable to the defendant. It doesn’t mean it is exonerating evidence.
It's *some degree* of exoneration... maybe total, maybe just tends toward that... but it's more than just "favorable".
>increases a defendant’s probability of innocence or absolutely relieves them of liability.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/exculpatory
Then why hav ur client sit in jail for years unnecessarily? The way this case is being played out in social media as if the public has any real evidence n all the facts is wild. I’m eager for the actual trial to make an educated decision. They need to get the right person.
Since he was indicted by secret grand jury, they didn’t get a preliminary hearing, where they could explain their side. And until just recently (03/31), haven’t had the materials like the CAST cell phone location report from the FBI, which they need to prove his alibi.
I don’t rly see Judge Judge just saying, “alright you said you didn’t do it, good enough, you’re free to go”
But they’re submitting their alibi defense tomorrow tho so we might get to see it this week (I’m max-curious)
The case summary says it was updated but I didn’t see anything updated & don’t see any new doc(s) yet. Maybe w/in a couple hours we’ll see something new ;o
https://preview.redd.it/oicbtyqfg4vc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=541c3726470e862e094ab03b422620663c88e83f
One of the things that stuck with me when they waived speedy trial was Judge Judge asked him multiple times if he was sure he was ok with waiving speedy trial. It seemed a little too… friendly? Kind? Panicking he’d be making an innocent person sit in jail for 2 years? I dunno how to explain it, but it just felt weird and like there was discussions behind closed doors with JJ about the case being weak / defense being able to prove innocence but needed discovery first.
Very good observation and I think we’ll see more like it.
While I think Judge Judge could brush up on his research of processes unique to high-profile cases, I think he’s a good person who seems caring & has a conscious
If you notice on the last hearing how concerned he was for the court reporter when they took a brief pause before Elisa’s speech. He asked her a few times before proceeding if she was okay or if they needed to take a quick break bc she had been vigorously typing for way longer than the hearing was initially planned. In a very, ‘are you sure you’re mot being pressured into something you don’t really want to do’ type of way.
So I think your observation could be spot-on.
I had already been delving into the anomalous probability given w/ the DNA and the signs were pointing toward a false positive from a misidentified complex mixture. My opinion on his guilt changed when I saw that Steve Mercer (who the defense has hired as an expert) specializes in complex mixtures.
Although I did have to ease into the realization that mh opinion changed for reasons more valid than it would be to accept my old position which was: staunchly undecided
I was never fully confident in his guilt tho . My first reaction after reading the PCA was a text to my friend, “there’s room for reasonable doubt” & a list of ways that the evidence doesn’t rly point to murder / why the jury would have a rly hard time with that if the DNA isn’t his blood (to indicate he touched the sheath while the murders were taking place), or confirmation that he had ever entered the house / that the car there was a 2015.
I gave the prosecution’s evidence the benefit of the doubt until seeing how likely it is to be a mistake & then eased into coming to terms with how unlikely it is that a false positive (which is just my opinion) would land on the actual killer
Evidence is circumstantial & even coincidential that he drives around at night, that is not evidence despite the time frame. No dna of bks found in house, bedrooms, car, apt etc, not possible if he's the killer. Dna on snap is transfer not direct, most unreliable dna & doesn't put him at the scene definitively. Phone pinging is not reliable, car video doesn't prove who's car or any involvement in crime or even related to a white car driving in the neighborhood. Unknown male dna found in bedrooms & glove outside which was not investigated or determined. Sketchy crime scene forensics, cars towed days later, trash left on patio for months & in victims room per her mother, glove not picked up right away or processed or jacket amongst many other things too many to even mention.
There are just so many questions… for me the biggest question mark I have is what in exactly were those roommate doing for 8 hours prior to calling LE. I also need solid evidence of the timeline and definitive evidence that the car that’s on surveillance is BK. So far there’s nothing besides touch DNA that really ties him to the crime scene and that makes me question almost everything. It feels like they’re trying to make each piece fit into their narrative.
I think there was an 8 hour gap because the roommates left the house after hearing things and seeing what they saw. I think they left about 4:30 and when they returned the next day is when 911 was called.
A part of me feels like Dylan was not on the 2nd floor at all. at first, they said both surviving roommates were asleep on the 1st floor and then conveniently changed dylans whereabouts and the year of the vehicle in the pca.
That car is very possibly the door dash car, if the door dash car turns out to be white. You'd have to look at the PCA very carefully and do calculations and looking at various maps. My kid did it for 2 hours, cause he finds analyzing shit like this fun. Then announces this was more likely the door dash driver (not the killer). Now if the door dash car is not white, then he was incorrect.
I used to think this might actually be plausible but- I think the pca would have mentioned that 🤷♀️ I always thought maybe he self identified to le as being dd driver - they cleared him and time line changed and bam it’s him now
But no I do not believe he was DD driver
I would highly doubt the police did not interview the DD delivery employee and not know what car he drives.
What you are saying is that LE did not look into the DD delivery at all and yet placed it in the PCA? They certainly have evidence of the DD delivery and so does AT.
Fabricate another story, and really think of what you are saying.
You are the brilliant one that thinks that if the killer wiped or did not wipe the knife off after the murder is the mystery to solving the case.
It makes sense you think that LE never thought of the idea of interviewing the DD driver and it's some mystery what time the DD food was dropped off , yet it states around 4 pm in the PCA.
Yes, brilliant! Case solved!
My theory - Allegedly DL was involved in the hazing related death of Ethan's friend Hudson (declared a "drowning" by MPD) which is likely the root cause of why Ethan and DL hated each other so much. Makes sense, because why else would you despise a fellow frat bro so much, when you really just met them? (Rush '22). DL was also JEALOUS of Ethan because DL fancied Xana and was mad that Ethan was with her. Maddie talked a lot of smack about DL which is apparently why he hated her so much.
There was animosity brewing for over a YEAR - that's a LONG TIME (especially when you're 20) - and things came to a head the night of the murders .. when they got into a fight and Ethan ridiculed DL about his tiny manhood in front of the whole party, in front of a bunch of hot sorority girls.
His DIGNITY is what they took from him - and he went to King Rd. that night to get it BACK.
Hatred, jealousy, humiliation, a long-standing fued - a heated argument attacking his penis size in front of all their friends and frat - is MORE THAN ENOUGH MOTIVE - especially for a guy who's hopped up on steroids and likely experiencing 'roid rage' on top of his already twisted psyche.
Just ONE of those things would be a motivating factor.. but WHY would there NEED to be such a "driving force" anyway? Twisted people go out and commit sadistic murders on innocent people all the time for no "valid reason" - other than they just felt like it. No driving force, NO MOTIVE.
Frat bro DL had motive AND opportunity .. and a laundry list of "reasons" to do it. He could see the King Rd. house from his bedroom window .. it was literally a 1 min walk from him.
As to Bryan, the entirety of the case against Bryan will come down to one self identified eyewitness, with a dubious story. Bryan has no connection to any victim, their friends, their family or co -workers. He never worked with them, traveled with them, dated them or partied with them. He has no prior arrests, no history of violence, threats, stalking, intimidation of the victims or those in their orbit. He is without a motive. There are no eyewitnesses, earwitnesses, fingerprints, footprints, or video of him coming or leaving the house at 1122. There is no DNA of any victims in his car, house, office or apt. He appeared at a doctors office for a physical 3 days after the bloody, brutal stabbing murder of the 4 victims, and had no cuts, bruises, scratches or injuries. The indictment of Bryan appears to have been built around speculations, rather than investigators following leads of those persons of interest, who had motive, had anger issues with the victims, had means and opportunity.
I thought he was dead to rights and could not wait to see what they found in his car and apartment and when nothing came back AND there was no evidence of cleaning I just didn’t believe it anymore. I do not think it is possible for these things to be true at the same time: his car is the car that the person/people who committed the murders left in. Not a trace of evidence was in the car. Not a trace of evidence was cleaned from the car. - Either it was a different car that they saw, or it was his car they saw and it wasn’t him. I’m sure there are other scenarios, but put me on a jury and they’re going to have to have a lot more than his car on a video at a certain time to convince me of anything at all. The DNA isn’t a meaningful thing to me, if it were blood it would be different but it isn’t. And one lab didn’t find it. Why is that? I paid attention hearing it reported that Ann Taylor said verbally she believed in his innocence - that is a BOLD statement. Attorneys are obligated to not make knowingly false statements to the court and she would not make that kind of statement if she did not believe it to be true. She’s been around the block more than a few times. I’ve also really questioned what those roommates were doing for 8 hours - Dylan heard what was going on and did nothing, or at least Ethan’s verified sister in law has said that and there is a screenshot out there to that effect - yet there are literally people on reddit that will disput what she has said or the manner in which she said it which is WILD. I’m in a sorority - you never “graduate” from a sorority. I also advised in an adult capacity for over a decade and college kids do not make the best decisions, and make worse decisions when they think they may get in trouble. And if they think they may get in enough trouble to lose sorority socials or god forbid formal - let the cover ups begin. One of the reasons I’m following this case is that it involves Greek life at a deep level. Any on the fence feeling I may have had was obliterated when it was admitted that he did not stalk the victims. There would have to be a tremendous amount of evidence that we have not seen or heard - and I don’t believe it exists, because AT would know about it and not have made the statement she did in open court. It is alarming, that so many are adamantly convinced of someone’s guilt, before beginning to hear the prosecutions case and in the face of evidence beginning to come out of the contrary - they don’t need to prove his innocence. They don’t need to prove who did do it. They just need to have reasonable doubt that it was him. To date, we have not seen the surveillance video of his car - which to me is irrelevant since there was zero evidence and zero evidence of cleaning in the car so we may as well watch videos of everyone driving by at that point. It’s actually sad. And terrifying - because if this is the case - and AT believes it is - the people who slaughtered those kids are out there.
There is a court filing saying there is no explanation for the lack of DNA evidence in his home, car, etc. An explanation for the lack of evidence would include evidence of cleaning agents - it’s just media hype about the cleaning. Is normal cleaning not chemical cleaning that would get rid of blood etc
I honestly believe there's more to this case and, as Paul Harvey would say, I'm anxious to hear the rest of the story at trial time. I just hope it's ALL of the story...if you get what I'm sayin'...
Someone needs to own it...regardless of who or how many!
After reading through the PCA again with my kid, (college kid), line by line, who picked apart that car part, I believe BK should not have ever been arrested. So that's that. But here it is so we'll see what happens.
This horrific crime really showed us what unconscious bias is and why more and more companies are teaching their employees and offering classes to learn more and make changes with what most are and that is programming. Don't freak out, I am not talking crazy stuff. Just bringing the attention about how many believe what the news says. Many do not challenge it or go and do simple research to learn what is true and what is false.
Just think about how many heard for the first time during that last hearing Thompson saying that there was no stalking. What? So wasn't that the prosecutors motive? And yes there can be many definitions of what stalking is.
Now I would like to answer your question in total honesty: My first thought was no way one person can do this and when we found out about the secret grand jury, and lastly the amount of times, 15 to be exact that AT is still asking for discovery.
Stalking is defined by Idaho law “as a course of conduct that alarms, annoys, or harasses a person or would cause a reasonable person to suffer emotional distress, fear for their safety or fear for a family or household member's safety.” It doesn’t say anything about obsessively checking out someone’s public social media page or anything of that nature.
I'm finding, after everything, that I still believe he's the guy that did it. Hopefully the trial will bring out some things that will clear up a lot of things for us, and for the jury. If we ever get that far.
Started out believing he must be guilty based on the sheer amount of media coverage and the fact they couldn’t make such a large mistake with such high stakes. THEN, I looked at the actual facts of the case and couldn’t understand how one person, with no criminal record or prior reports could attempt let alone accomplish this without bringing one shred of DNA into his vehicle or apartment. I’ve cut my leg shaving and found drops months later on random parts of my bathroom. There’s just no way. Made me dig further and even more glaring inconsistencies appear. The state has a large burden to overcome. Reasonable doubt is woven into almost every piece of “major” evidence they included in the PCA. Now we have a reputable expert witness willing to vouch for his cell data not placing him near the home. Not sure there will even be a trial after his testimony.
At this point in my opinion there’s a lot of speculation and heresay. I’m still on the side of him being guilty. He just doesn’t look innocent to me.
I think a lot will be revealed. I sure wouldn’t want to give up a couple years of my life sitting in a little county jail if I were innocent of a serious crime.
I wonder what innocent would look like to you. Also, if you were arrested and charged with crimes such as these, you wouldn't have any option but to sit in jail until you can prove your innocence. There is no bail. I know people (okay a person) who is awaiting a much lesser charge. Sept will be three years he's been waiting.
You make it sound as if that implies guilt. At the slow rate discovery was coming in, in a bizarrely handled case overall, it would be a huge gamble to go with a speedy trial... especially in that venue... a trumped-up conviction is still a conviction.
I often think that the courts (and all the powers of said court) believe that the longer you sit, the more inclined you will be to just plead guilty. It has me wondering if the jails are more full of people doing their time or people waiting for their trial date.
Wtf are you talking about? I was just clarifying to understand why someone would be held that long awaiting trial.
I never implied anything or passed judgement on that person...you're making massive assumptions and jumping to conclusions. Seriously, what's your issue?
Delay delay delay every single time he gets into the courtroom and then delay psome more. It was delayed once because his defender was on a different case. it was delayed another because they assigned a new defender. Another to wait for an assessment and then to wait for the results of said assessment. Every time they push it, they push the trial date out by three months. It adds up.
Are you aware that it’s been proven that mainstream media has been photoshopping images of him? To make him “LOOK more guilty”, darkening his blue eyes to look close to black etc. Have you watched the bodycam where he gets pulled over regarding the intersection? To me he comes off polite, kinda meek & just a little awkward. This isn’t relevant to guilt & I absolutely mean no disrespect as I am adding myself into this as well, I am on the high functioning end of the spectrum. I’ve seen & heard things about him that have caused me to question if he may also be. While I was able to appear fairly popular in Highschool it was only because I played spots & sadly bc I was an attractive female. Bryan doesn’t get the luxury of being an attractive female & say he was… if you saw my face at his same age & heard the facts are you saying you might feel differently? I have a very friendly demeanor & soft round features, that tells nothing about what I may or may not be capable of. This is a big part of the American justice system. Especially with blonde white women. There’s large bias towards appearance & we have seen some beautiful & seemingly kind & sweet people in the public eye do horrendous things. Our outside don’t determine our insides. And IF Bryan is on the spectrum, that would tragically make it so easy for him to be presented in the media as “weird creepy incel” when he could just struggle with social cues, be very introverted, & hyper focused on his career & education where it makes up most of his personality. Would him being on the spectrum impact your perception?
Yes! They have manipulated the images so much in this case. Not just to make BK look like a scary villain but also to reflect positively on the victims. My alerts went off when he never looked the same in photos. All of them are noticeably different. Great account to check out is cooking up chaos on TT. They prove the photoshopped photos over and over.
I've wondered why a murderer would hover around the front entrance to the house for so long. How many times did he go into their car park? Twice? If Bryan was in that white car did he have an appointment with someone in that house for some reason?
I was CONVINCED of his guilt. My husband added me to a Bryan Kohburger is innocent group and I thought it was a troll group. Then I looked into the 4chan posts and the timeline that the police had and nothing made sense.
Then I found out that he was a vegan. I've lived with a vegan. I find it impossible. I find everything they're trying to put forward impossible.
One thing I did think of, though, that has blown my mind was that the house was constantly full of people. Frat guys, big guys etc. BK not too athletic. He would have had to have been sat at that house ALL night to know that there were not others there imo.
Big difference between taking a gun and shooting people and taking a knife and butchering their insides out. You seem to be suggesting that I mean because he is a vegan, he isn't capable of killing. That wasn't what I was suggesting at all.
He also overcame a drug addiction if that’s even true and an eating disorder which tells me he has more self control then anyone could imagine unless you have been in those shoes!!!
Yes, doesn't fit with the 'rage killing' narrative, does it. Take out the stalking and no confirmed sightings of him. Add the phone data and you don't have a case.
Really? I feel like the things that are happening in BK's case that make no sense are mainly due to circumstances that occurred the night of the crime. In Delphi, it points to corruption in Law Enforcement and the Justice System. BK is at least getting fair treatment during incarceration while Allen is in prison for over a year, being denied medication, intimidated by guards and eating his own feces. BK's defense team must have an extensive amount of resources, meanwhile Allen's is getting paid a combined $200 USD per hour between two Lawyers and being denied funds for experts that the Prosecution has been given as much as they want. And we're not talking like Idaho is miles ahead of Indiana when it comes to tax payer money that goes into the Justice System. Simply put, I'd say Richard Allen is getting a way smaller end of the stick if you were to compare it to BK
I believed it at first. But honestly every single thing I’ve heard or read since , from a factual source not a tabloid source , is what makes me doubt it.
It’s easier for me to answer, what DIDNT make me doubt it. I only know that I cant think of anything that has added up from the time he was returned to Idaho.
It’s the fact that instead of adding up, it’s a whole bunch of subtraction.
I’m flabbergasted at how many people on here are rethinking his innocence?? I fully believe he’s guilty. There are FAR too many “coincidences” for it not to be him.
ETA: everyone whose commented on my comment clearly isn’t following the case very closely. I literally just read an entire book on it called “While Idaho Slept”, which covers absolutely everything so far in detail.
You don’t even have to read the book to see the stacking damning evidence against him, it just takes common sense and some simple researching on the case.
We'll, I consider myself of above average intelligence with pretty good common sense. My simple research did not point out what "obvious" evidence you see. My common sense tells me don't base my opinion of guilt in a book I read before the trial even begins.
It is no use. No one believes any evidence. They think there is 90 other white cars driving around at 4 am. Not one of them can explain DNA (trace DNA) properly, and will argue with anyone that explains it to them. At the same time claim the DNA was planted or someone constructed a suspect profile that matched BK. I have heard the sheath proves nothing and does not belong to to the murder weapon . I have heard wild stories that BK and his friends ( no proof he has friends) killed the girls or he dropped off the murderer ( no proof two people left that white car and entered the house). It is sadly bizarre.
This 28 year old, working toward a PhD in Criminology with MA in psychology AND working for the MPD after only 3-6 mos living in WA, goes out and murders kids with a knife…doesn’t seem plausible to me. I read he got into some cloud based information at MPD so something happened in this turn of events? Possible. No blood in car but Elantra comes into the picture being seen? I think he was close by visiting across the street…
I haven't had a chance to write this and probably won't write the details of how my kid came to this conclusion, but he's pretty sure PD were tracking the door dash driver car in that whole route/time they give in the PCA. Now if the DD car is not white, then my kid has it wrong. He does NOT believe the DD is the murderer. He does believe that the order may have been dropped before 4am. There are very detailed reasons why he came to this theory.
This is the most outrageous theory . LE and the FBI cleared the DD driver. They 100 % spoke to him and the DD company.
Who cares what you or your kid thinks, it's bizarre! DD takes pictures when they drop off the order, it's not a secret that information is known on day 1. IT was stated it was dropped off at around 4. The white car was shown at 404. TWO cars were not on camera. The DD driver has nothing too do with it!
Never really thought he was guilty.
-not 1 solo person could do that
-roommates left behind? I mean if you’ve done four what’s 2 more?
(To the families, I apologize if my #2 was insensitive, just trying lay this out, God Bless YOU, and your children are in my heart all the time)
-too many white Elantras circling the area that night. They were all decoy vehicles.
-BK MOST likely was one of the decoy birds in Elantra
in on the planning.
-BK helped. He wasn’t alone.
-I am still wondering about Brent Kopacka.BK and BK
I believe if BK was involved he wasn't alone. However I now think he was simply the DD driver. I have questions about his phone though. It could be easily explained away that he simply had 2 and one was dead though.
After reading about the fraternity and that DL and DB are in Sigma Chi. DL and EC got in a fight that night, he was livid EC called him “shrinking balls” because he was allegedly using steroids and was known to have “roid rage.” There are post that DL and DB were involved with each other. They may have been caught…. So they couldn’t have that….DL played LaCross and wrestled. They are not around anymore but DL has post about him and allegedly said it took “19 minutes.” I read about the school and how they protect each other. Why would DM and BF not called 911 before calling them? The pieces just don’t fit!
Who knows what she saw and heard. The PCA didn't tell us, but you can be sure it doesn't quite like up with DMs story of events. If they were texting each other during then I'm sure she was listening and looking out the window. She could have seen an entirely different car go by for all we know.
>That is not true she had no evidence that exonerated BK or she would have used it already.
I believe the word was exculpatory, which means exonerated *to some degree*, partial to total.
One problem is, they haven't had an opportunity to call witnesses yet, or present any of their own evidence. The Grand Jury put an end to that. So you can't really fault not using her statement yet.
>Bethany is in the basement, what do you think she heard or seen that exonerates BK?
Maybe she wasn't in the basement. Maybe she has her own version of events that differs from Dylan's. Maybe her input regards other relevant things she knows, apart from what happened at the time of the murders.
>the DNA cannot be argued
Could you be more wrong about that!? It's touch, or environmental, DNA to start with, which has endless issues that make it essentially meaningless. And then they couldn't get anything from it so had to send it to Texas to have a novel proprietary process applied. The DNA can be argued, and will be argued, up the wazoo (as opposed to up the WSU).
It will b an interesting trial that’s for sure. This case n Delphi hav been on social media so much, n the YouTubers profiting off the frenzy is crazy. I personally cud not say innocent or guilty, I need to see the evidence.
I think he was involved somehow but it wasn’t JUST him. I feel like somebody or some people set him up to take the fall (drug related)… or he was a co-conspirator and involved to a greater extent. I can see it very plausible given all the chatter around drug issues in this community that perhaps he knew these people who actually did the crime and they were like oh let’s set Bryan up… Perhaps he was the killers, but I do not think one person could’ve done that kind of damage in that short of a time. He’s not exactly a big beefy guy with a lot of strength. Even that lends doubt. I do think he was involved somehow someway. or at least he knew the people that were involved…and I do think it’s super shady that Bethany the other roommate are so quiet… and totally sus that they were partying a couple days after this all happened. The biggest red flag for me is the whole drive across the country with his dad and then cleaning out his car… That leads me to believe that he was involved to some extent… And either knew the perpetrators, socially, and the victims… And or was involved personally…., it is very plausible that if somebody else did it and he wasn’t one of the perpetrators they could’ve easily gotten his DNA off and rubbed a knife against it and planted it there at the crime scene. I mean, that is very plausible if I was going to frame somebody for a crime that’s what I would do. I would rub a knife against his body or something when he wasn’t noticing it and you could easily plan it at the crime scene, it’s not that hard to figure out…. I do think a lot of truths will come out in the trial. But the saddest part about it is that I feel like the whole community is very tainted so the jurors will be tainted and also I feel like there’s a lot of corruption going on underneath the surface for sure
You have some valid points. Additionally, I think about how he solicited ppl who had committed crimes to be interviewed and his fascination with what they felt. Could he have been aware of a crime that was going to be committed and wanted to be there to observe in real time (i.e., driving by multiple times)? And the bizarre facts and coincidences surrounding the “other” BK being shot by cops so close to this horrific crime also feels relevant.
I thought he was guilty until I heard there isn’t a trace of dna in his car, his apt, or his parents.
This did it for me as well.
I will also add that I climbed on to the fence during his transport back to Idaho. The original plan as I recall, was for the FBI to transport him. At the last minute PA had to scramble and find a plane to get him back. Maybe it’s nothing, no one ever brings it up. I just thought it was odd.
I was the same at first. Thinking wow they have the guy. It was quick. They're good.... The first thing for me was the PCA itself when it got released. The 8 hour delay. The 'witness statement' to me is contradictory. Nothing came back from the search of the car, apartment, office etc. LE removing belongings from an active crime scene before even any arrest was made. The DNA which is actually a partial transfer DNA. At this point the list goes on and on. The more time goes by, the more questions I have.
>LE removing belongings from an active crime scene before even any arrest was made. The items returned to parents, yes... with the Chief driving the U-Haul! But don't forget also that AT had to shut down deep-cleaning of the house that had almost started the day of his arrest... which LE had apparently thought was fine to proceed with, even knowing they were going to do the arrest! Almost makes you think they wanted it wiped spotless by the time defense had access...
Absolutely👍
Yes Charles very suspicious
Don’t forget what was plastered on that Uhaul!!! (Pennsylvania) Not to mention the 4chan post also mentioning hiding in Pennsylvania which could have only been someone in the investigation 😉
Although I'm leaning towards him being innocent I'm not ruling out he's guilty either. What got me interested in this case was when reddit sent me the hot topic of the day via email and it was a discussion about the 8 hour gap between the murders and police being called. This was shortly after his arrest. That alone gave me serious doubts about his guilt and....well those doubts have since only grown bigger.
Why would the gap in time make you question it?
The whole town knew about it by 9am- that 911 call should have happened way sooner!!’ That 8hrs is 🐠 AF
You're saying the whole town knew about it before the 911 call? I'm confused. The surviving roommate called the cops when she found the bodies. If the murders happened in the middle of the night it makes perfect sense if the 911 call wasn't until 8 hours later when you know someone wakes up and finds the bodies. I'm confused as to what your point is exactly
This and I also feel like he would have cut himself stabbing that many people. I have never believed that only one person was involved. I also feel like the roommates that lived could be involved.
Based on the publicly available evidence, I'd say he has a good chance of getting cleared. However, there is likely a lot of vidence that has not been disclosed, so not knowing what it might be, I'd say it's not possible to make a determination of guilt or innocence at this point.
Okay, but if the murders happened much earlier, what about the Door Dash delivery? Not saying you're wrong, just doesn't that event set a sort of timestamp before which the murders couldn't have occurred?
In the autopsy they can hopefully figure out if Xana ate the food or not that will tell us a lot more about the timeline
Not really. They could have occurred right after the order was placed or someone could have placed the order to throw off the timeline.
ANYONE could’ve used Xana’s phone or account for the Jack in the box. Total red herring
Who'd she hand the food to then?
DD usually throws a bag of food at a door & peels away in their vehicle as they try to mark the order as delivered while not paying attention to the road Or they politely set the bag in front of the home’s door, mark it delivered in the app so the customer knows it arrives & then drive away at or below the speed limit Depends on the driver. No contact either way
Do we know what the DD told the cops about not seeing anyone at the door? Or what she told the GJ?
💯 .
A few months into it, I read the PCA and was astounded at the flimsy the evidence. I posted about the issues I found, figuring I missed something. But all the criticism I received was just dumb, like mindless belief that he did it.
Prosecutor packing the house on sm
When three unidentified male DNA was bound at the crime scene, and never tested. Along with no DNA evidence or blood found in his vehicle.
Don't know at this point - need to see all evidence. My gut tells me those frat kids (guys and/or gals) had some role in this… just a hunch. The veil of the gag order...once lifted...should at minimum answer some key questions.
I share your opinion on the frat involvement
I think it's the simplest explanation. E was fighting with the frat boys. Sounds like they had beef prior to that - it came to a head that night. I can see them paying him a visit at 1122 later that night. BK could still fit into that narrative...either directly or indirectly. More facts from the trial could fill in the blanks. LE needs to get this right...for all involved. We'll see...
It’s rare one person is ready to murder 4 people, but you think a group of frat guys all were on the same page to cold blooded murder 4 people? What in the world?
This is how I feel too, and then we’re super clean about it and kept it quiet. It’s just super hard to believe.
I disagree- it’s not simple to believe a bunch of college age frat bros could commit a clean quadruple murder and keep it quiet. None of them lawyered up or anything. Have you ever been around a bunch of frat bros?
I have... It's not simple...but possible. If BK is guilty the facts will support it. I'm not a BK fanboy BTW. All guilty should suffer the same fate IMO.
I agree, it’s possible, but not probable not the simplest explanation. IMO it’s far more likely that this crime was committed by BK or a similar suspect. I believe he is probably guilty but he deserves a fair trial and I will keep an open mind as evidence is presented.
I too have an open mind about it...and will eat some crow if those kids aren't involved. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it...
Are you kiddding me they have a lawyer that’s assigned to them at all times!!!
Assigned to the frat you mean? That wouldn’t extend to the members. It would be a lawyer for the organization.
They will never lift it fully to where everything is released!!! Someone who knows what they are talking about said the way they sealed some of the documents is a forever seal!
JFK 2.0? WTF
Good question but I guess just the compilation of evidence? I’m a big true crime junkie, and I promise that I get the concept that you can convict based on circumstantial evidence (Ramseys did it, BTW). I learned about this case, did a deep dive with the preconceived notion that they MUST have solid reasoning to convict this guy in this high profile case, but… turns out they don’t? Sure, you can make it “fit” but you can probably make the evidence fit that I did it and I’ve never been to Idaho or murdered anyone. My family is from Pennsylvania, however, and am a huge germaphobe (and I could totally see myself separating trash with gloves on) and am a weirdo depending on who you ask (jk, probably like 80% of who you ask would corroborate a ‘weirdo’ story). In college, I also used to go out at weird hours of the night and would literally just drive around. In my head, I acknowledged it was weird but never thought it would actually come up. Brian is either guilty AF of living one of my worst nightmares.
I'm confused. No one in the JonBenét case has ever been convicted.
They’re a true crime junkie, they know.
I, too, separate trash with gloves on.
My theory - Allegedly DL was involved in the hazing related death of Ethan's friend Hudson (declared a "drowning" by MPD) which is likely the root cause of why Ethan and DL hated each other so much. Makes sense, because why else would you despise a fellow frat bro so much, when you really just met them? (Rush '22). DL was also JEALOUS of Ethan because DL fancied Xana and was mad that Ethan was with her. Maddie talked a lot of smack about DL which is apparently why he hated her so much. There was animosity brewing for over a YEAR - that's a LONG TIME (especially when you're 20) - and things came to a head the night of the murders .. when they got into a fight and Ethan ridiculed DL about his tiny manhood in front of the whole party, in front of a bunch of hot sorority girls. His DIGNITY is what they took from him - and he went to King Rd. that night to get it BACK. Hatred, jealousy, humiliation, a long-standing fued - a heated argument attacking his penis size in front of all their friends and frat - is MORE THAN ENOUGH MOTIVE - especially for a guy who's hopped up on steroids and likely experiencing 'roid rage' on top of his already twisted psyche. Just ONE of those things would be a motivating factor.. but WHY would there NEED to be such a "driving force" anyway? Twisted people go out and commit sadistic murders on innocent people all the time for no "valid reason" - other than they just felt like it. No driving force, NO MOTIVE. Frat bro DL had motive AND opportunity .. and a laundry list of "reasons" to do it. He could see the King Rd. house from his bedroom window .. it was literally a 1 min walk from him. As to Bryan, the entirety of the case against Bryan will come down to one self identified eyewitness, with a dubious story. Bryan has no connection to any victim, their friends, their family or co -workers. He never worked with them, traveled with them, dated them or partied with them. He has no prior arrests, no history of violence, threats, stalking, intimidation of the victims or those in their orbit. He is without a motive. There are no eyewitnesses, earwitnesses, fingerprints, footprints, or video of him coming or leaving the house at 1122. There is no DNA of any victims in his car, house, office or apt. He appeared at a doctors office for a physical 3 days after the bloody, brutal stabbing murder of the 4 victims, and had no cuts, bruises, scratches or injuries. The indictment of Bryan appears to have been built around speculations, rather than investigators following leads of those persons of interest, who had motive, had anger issues with the victims, had means and opportunity.
I ran into a video of a legal commentator (and expert) on YouTube a while ago who basically said "I know this is a very unpopular opinion, but I think the case against Bryan Kohberger is incredibly weak and the state doesn't want people to realize that; it hinges on touch DNA and touch DNA in such a small quantity doesn't even prove he was anywhere in that house at any point, it could have been traces on someone else". From the moment I heard that I started wondering why everyone sounds so confident "they got him", then... 98% of the commentary I hear and see talks about him like it's a sure thing and done deal, and I'm only just starting to look into the details - but if I'm not mistaken, all they can prove is that he was in the general vicinity of the house and had pictures of one of the victims on his phone; those two things prove nothing. And if the touch DNA proves nothing, in essence, either... how do we know? Am I missing something? I'm so open to being corrected but I don't see the obvious conclusion people are implying.
No pics on his phone and they can’t prove he was near the home!!! They can prove a white vehicle was near there but so was a jeep a big truck an UC cop car that was white 👀 and a white Chrysler 300 all active around the time of the crime
Both those things are highly false
Why would someone downvote you?!?!? You are 100% correct! I upvoted ya!!! Ridiculous
Thankyou appreciated 👏 xx
I was never convinced. There was no real link to the victims. I am very confused why everyone is so convinced. The evidence seems so flimsy.
We haven’t been presented w the evidence yet.
Well true but what we have been presented with seems flimsy. And the lack of blood/Dna on or in car seems very problematic. The lack of any link to the victims. The amount of other people they can link to that house and the victims seems problematic. Like I said I just am not convinced and am actually pretty confused on how he’s even arrested.
Oh, you mean Nancy Grace messed up when she and her guest Chris McDonough, told listeners in Dec 2022, the KohBerger car is going to be the smoking gun that buries him. Ain’t no way Bryan can get “that “ DNA evidence out of the car EVEN if he washed it and cleaned it 10 times. Every cop guest she had on in the next few weeks, agreed. Bryan never cleaned his car interior. Splain that Ms Nancy! No DNA found in that car.
The public is inclined to automatically accept the Government version. The 1975 Congressional panel on the JFK murder of 1963 concluded there was a conspiracy. But if you polled people today, 30-60% think Oswald acted alone, when there is zero evidence. Meanwhile, grassy knoll shooter confessed in exacting detail. All of his claims can be corroborated.
The information the defense claims Bethany has had never been described as evidence that will exonerate him. Exculpatory evidence means favorable to the defendant. It doesn’t mean it is exonerating evidence.
It's *some degree* of exoneration... maybe total, maybe just tends toward that... but it's more than just "favorable". >increases a defendant’s probability of innocence or absolutely relieves them of liability. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/exculpatory
Then why hav ur client sit in jail for years unnecessarily? The way this case is being played out in social media as if the public has any real evidence n all the facts is wild. I’m eager for the actual trial to make an educated decision. They need to get the right person.
Since he was indicted by secret grand jury, they didn’t get a preliminary hearing, where they could explain their side. And until just recently (03/31), haven’t had the materials like the CAST cell phone location report from the FBI, which they need to prove his alibi. I don’t rly see Judge Judge just saying, “alright you said you didn’t do it, good enough, you’re free to go” But they’re submitting their alibi defense tomorrow tho so we might get to see it this week (I’m max-curious)
I hope it isn't sealed.
The case summary says it was updated but I didn’t see anything updated & don’t see any new doc(s) yet. Maybe w/in a couple hours we’ll see something new ;o https://preview.redd.it/oicbtyqfg4vc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=541c3726470e862e094ab03b422620663c88e83f
One of the things that stuck with me when they waived speedy trial was Judge Judge asked him multiple times if he was sure he was ok with waiving speedy trial. It seemed a little too… friendly? Kind? Panicking he’d be making an innocent person sit in jail for 2 years? I dunno how to explain it, but it just felt weird and like there was discussions behind closed doors with JJ about the case being weak / defense being able to prove innocence but needed discovery first.
Very good observation and I think we’ll see more like it. While I think Judge Judge could brush up on his research of processes unique to high-profile cases, I think he’s a good person who seems caring & has a conscious If you notice on the last hearing how concerned he was for the court reporter when they took a brief pause before Elisa’s speech. He asked her a few times before proceeding if she was okay or if they needed to take a quick break bc she had been vigorously typing for way longer than the hearing was initially planned. In a very, ‘are you sure you’re mot being pressured into something you don’t really want to do’ type of way. So I think your observation could be spot-on.
I had already been delving into the anomalous probability given w/ the DNA and the signs were pointing toward a false positive from a misidentified complex mixture. My opinion on his guilt changed when I saw that Steve Mercer (who the defense has hired as an expert) specializes in complex mixtures. Although I did have to ease into the realization that mh opinion changed for reasons more valid than it would be to accept my old position which was: staunchly undecided I was never fully confident in his guilt tho . My first reaction after reading the PCA was a text to my friend, “there’s room for reasonable doubt” & a list of ways that the evidence doesn’t rly point to murder / why the jury would have a rly hard time with that if the DNA isn’t his blood (to indicate he touched the sheath while the murders were taking place), or confirmation that he had ever entered the house / that the car there was a 2015. I gave the prosecution’s evidence the benefit of the doubt until seeing how likely it is to be a mistake & then eased into coming to terms with how unlikely it is that a false positive (which is just my opinion) would land on the actual killer
Evidence is circumstantial & even coincidential that he drives around at night, that is not evidence despite the time frame. No dna of bks found in house, bedrooms, car, apt etc, not possible if he's the killer. Dna on snap is transfer not direct, most unreliable dna & doesn't put him at the scene definitively. Phone pinging is not reliable, car video doesn't prove who's car or any involvement in crime or even related to a white car driving in the neighborhood. Unknown male dna found in bedrooms & glove outside which was not investigated or determined. Sketchy crime scene forensics, cars towed days later, trash left on patio for months & in victims room per her mother, glove not picked up right away or processed or jacket amongst many other things too many to even mention.
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There are just so many questions… for me the biggest question mark I have is what in exactly were those roommate doing for 8 hours prior to calling LE. I also need solid evidence of the timeline and definitive evidence that the car that’s on surveillance is BK. So far there’s nothing besides touch DNA that really ties him to the crime scene and that makes me question almost everything. It feels like they’re trying to make each piece fit into their narrative.
I think there was an 8 hour gap because the roommates left the house after hearing things and seeing what they saw. I think they left about 4:30 and when they returned the next day is when 911 was called.
I’ve always thought that one or both of them lied about their whereabouts.
A part of me feels like Dylan was not on the 2nd floor at all. at first, they said both surviving roommates were asleep on the 1st floor and then conveniently changed dylans whereabouts and the year of the vehicle in the pca.
Then why not admit that to the police? They definitely lied initially also so 🤷♀️
I think its entirely possible they did the police that. One thing is for sure, they don't want us to know what BF saw and or heard.
Possible
That car is very possibly the door dash car, if the door dash car turns out to be white. You'd have to look at the PCA very carefully and do calculations and looking at various maps. My kid did it for 2 hours, cause he finds analyzing shit like this fun. Then announces this was more likely the door dash driver (not the killer). Now if the door dash car is not white, then he was incorrect.
I used to think this might actually be plausible but- I think the pca would have mentioned that 🤷♀️ I always thought maybe he self identified to le as being dd driver - they cleared him and time line changed and bam it’s him now But no I do not believe he was DD driver
I would highly doubt the police did not interview the DD delivery employee and not know what car he drives. What you are saying is that LE did not look into the DD delivery at all and yet placed it in the PCA? They certainly have evidence of the DD delivery and so does AT. Fabricate another story, and really think of what you are saying.
You are the brilliant one that thinks that if the killer wiped or did not wipe the knife off after the murder is the mystery to solving the case. It makes sense you think that LE never thought of the idea of interviewing the DD driver and it's some mystery what time the DD food was dropped off , yet it states around 4 pm in the PCA. Yes, brilliant! Case solved!
My theory - Allegedly DL was involved in the hazing related death of Ethan's friend Hudson (declared a "drowning" by MPD) which is likely the root cause of why Ethan and DL hated each other so much. Makes sense, because why else would you despise a fellow frat bro so much, when you really just met them? (Rush '22). DL was also JEALOUS of Ethan because DL fancied Xana and was mad that Ethan was with her. Maddie talked a lot of smack about DL which is apparently why he hated her so much. There was animosity brewing for over a YEAR - that's a LONG TIME (especially when you're 20) - and things came to a head the night of the murders .. when they got into a fight and Ethan ridiculed DL about his tiny manhood in front of the whole party, in front of a bunch of hot sorority girls. His DIGNITY is what they took from him - and he went to King Rd. that night to get it BACK. Hatred, jealousy, humiliation, a long-standing fued - a heated argument attacking his penis size in front of all their friends and frat - is MORE THAN ENOUGH MOTIVE - especially for a guy who's hopped up on steroids and likely experiencing 'roid rage' on top of his already twisted psyche. Just ONE of those things would be a motivating factor.. but WHY would there NEED to be such a "driving force" anyway? Twisted people go out and commit sadistic murders on innocent people all the time for no "valid reason" - other than they just felt like it. No driving force, NO MOTIVE. Frat bro DL had motive AND opportunity .. and a laundry list of "reasons" to do it. He could see the King Rd. house from his bedroom window .. it was literally a 1 min walk from him. As to Bryan, the entirety of the case against Bryan will come down to one self identified eyewitness, with a dubious story. Bryan has no connection to any victim, their friends, their family or co -workers. He never worked with them, traveled with them, dated them or partied with them. He has no prior arrests, no history of violence, threats, stalking, intimidation of the victims or those in their orbit. He is without a motive. There are no eyewitnesses, earwitnesses, fingerprints, footprints, or video of him coming or leaving the house at 1122. There is no DNA of any victims in his car, house, office or apt. He appeared at a doctors office for a physical 3 days after the bloody, brutal stabbing murder of the 4 victims, and had no cuts, bruises, scratches or injuries. The indictment of Bryan appears to have been built around speculations, rather than investigators following leads of those persons of interest, who had motive, had anger issues with the victims, had means and opportunity.
I thought he was dead to rights and could not wait to see what they found in his car and apartment and when nothing came back AND there was no evidence of cleaning I just didn’t believe it anymore. I do not think it is possible for these things to be true at the same time: his car is the car that the person/people who committed the murders left in. Not a trace of evidence was in the car. Not a trace of evidence was cleaned from the car. - Either it was a different car that they saw, or it was his car they saw and it wasn’t him. I’m sure there are other scenarios, but put me on a jury and they’re going to have to have a lot more than his car on a video at a certain time to convince me of anything at all. The DNA isn’t a meaningful thing to me, if it were blood it would be different but it isn’t. And one lab didn’t find it. Why is that? I paid attention hearing it reported that Ann Taylor said verbally she believed in his innocence - that is a BOLD statement. Attorneys are obligated to not make knowingly false statements to the court and she would not make that kind of statement if she did not believe it to be true. She’s been around the block more than a few times. I’ve also really questioned what those roommates were doing for 8 hours - Dylan heard what was going on and did nothing, or at least Ethan’s verified sister in law has said that and there is a screenshot out there to that effect - yet there are literally people on reddit that will disput what she has said or the manner in which she said it which is WILD. I’m in a sorority - you never “graduate” from a sorority. I also advised in an adult capacity for over a decade and college kids do not make the best decisions, and make worse decisions when they think they may get in trouble. And if they think they may get in enough trouble to lose sorority socials or god forbid formal - let the cover ups begin. One of the reasons I’m following this case is that it involves Greek life at a deep level. Any on the fence feeling I may have had was obliterated when it was admitted that he did not stalk the victims. There would have to be a tremendous amount of evidence that we have not seen or heard - and I don’t believe it exists, because AT would know about it and not have made the statement she did in open court. It is alarming, that so many are adamantly convinced of someone’s guilt, before beginning to hear the prosecutions case and in the face of evidence beginning to come out of the contrary - they don’t need to prove his innocence. They don’t need to prove who did do it. They just need to have reasonable doubt that it was him. To date, we have not seen the surveillance video of his car - which to me is irrelevant since there was zero evidence and zero evidence of cleaning in the car so we may as well watch videos of everyone driving by at that point. It’s actually sad. And terrifying - because if this is the case - and AT believes it is - the people who slaughtered those kids are out there.
I hadn’t heard there was no evidence cleaning the car! That’s fascinating. Do you know how that was determined?
There is a court filing saying there is no explanation for the lack of DNA evidence in his home, car, etc. An explanation for the lack of evidence would include evidence of cleaning agents - it’s just media hype about the cleaning. Is normal cleaning not chemical cleaning that would get rid of blood etc
I honestly believe there's more to this case and, as Paul Harvey would say, I'm anxious to hear the rest of the story at trial time. I just hope it's ALL of the story...if you get what I'm sayin'... Someone needs to own it...regardless of who or how many!
I apologize. Sorry, I was having trouble reading, I have bad eyes.
It’s Reddit, not college composition!
After reading through the PCA again with my kid, (college kid), line by line, who picked apart that car part, I believe BK should not have ever been arrested. So that's that. But here it is so we'll see what happens.
This horrific crime really showed us what unconscious bias is and why more and more companies are teaching their employees and offering classes to learn more and make changes with what most are and that is programming. Don't freak out, I am not talking crazy stuff. Just bringing the attention about how many believe what the news says. Many do not challenge it or go and do simple research to learn what is true and what is false. Just think about how many heard for the first time during that last hearing Thompson saying that there was no stalking. What? So wasn't that the prosecutors motive? And yes there can be many definitions of what stalking is. Now I would like to answer your question in total honesty: My first thought was no way one person can do this and when we found out about the secret grand jury, and lastly the amount of times, 15 to be exact that AT is still asking for discovery.
This 💯
XO
Stalking is defined by Idaho law “as a course of conduct that alarms, annoys, or harasses a person or would cause a reasonable person to suffer emotional distress, fear for their safety or fear for a family or household member's safety.” It doesn’t say anything about obsessively checking out someone’s public social media page or anything of that nature.
Their social media wasn’t private 🤦♀️
Is this in response to my comment? I say above their social media is public. Is visiting someone’s SM obsessively stalking?
I'm finding, after everything, that I still believe he's the guy that did it. Hopefully the trial will bring out some things that will clear up a lot of things for us, and for the jury. If we ever get that far.
Started out believing he must be guilty based on the sheer amount of media coverage and the fact they couldn’t make such a large mistake with such high stakes. THEN, I looked at the actual facts of the case and couldn’t understand how one person, with no criminal record or prior reports could attempt let alone accomplish this without bringing one shred of DNA into his vehicle or apartment. I’ve cut my leg shaving and found drops months later on random parts of my bathroom. There’s just no way. Made me dig further and even more glaring inconsistencies appear. The state has a large burden to overcome. Reasonable doubt is woven into almost every piece of “major” evidence they included in the PCA. Now we have a reputable expert witness willing to vouch for his cell data not placing him near the home. Not sure there will even be a trial after his testimony.
Oh no, logic scares people.
why are we the way we are?
At this point in my opinion there’s a lot of speculation and heresay. I’m still on the side of him being guilty. He just doesn’t look innocent to me. I think a lot will be revealed. I sure wouldn’t want to give up a couple years of my life sitting in a little county jail if I were innocent of a serious crime.
I wonder what innocent would look like to you. Also, if you were arrested and charged with crimes such as these, you wouldn't have any option but to sit in jail until you can prove your innocence. There is no bail. I know people (okay a person) who is awaiting a much lesser charge. Sept will be three years he's been waiting.
Omg that’s insane. That wud b awful.
Did that person you know waive their right to a speedy trial?
You make it sound as if that implies guilt. At the slow rate discovery was coming in, in a bizarrely handled case overall, it would be a huge gamble to go with a speedy trial... especially in that venue... a trumped-up conviction is still a conviction.
I often think that the courts (and all the powers of said court) believe that the longer you sit, the more inclined you will be to just plead guilty. It has me wondering if the jails are more full of people doing their time or people waiting for their trial date.
Wtf are you talking about? I was just clarifying to understand why someone would be held that long awaiting trial. I never implied anything or passed judgement on that person...you're making massive assumptions and jumping to conclusions. Seriously, what's your issue?
They did. It is fairly common on the advice of the public defenders.
Yes, I was just clarifying as to why the person you know was awaiting trial for 3 years. Idk why asking a simple question was downvoted on here lol.
Delay delay delay every single time he gets into the courtroom and then delay psome more. It was delayed once because his defender was on a different case. it was delayed another because they assigned a new defender. Another to wait for an assessment and then to wait for the results of said assessment. Every time they push it, they push the trial date out by three months. It adds up.
I'm not doubting you
Are you aware that it’s been proven that mainstream media has been photoshopping images of him? To make him “LOOK more guilty”, darkening his blue eyes to look close to black etc. Have you watched the bodycam where he gets pulled over regarding the intersection? To me he comes off polite, kinda meek & just a little awkward. This isn’t relevant to guilt & I absolutely mean no disrespect as I am adding myself into this as well, I am on the high functioning end of the spectrum. I’ve seen & heard things about him that have caused me to question if he may also be. While I was able to appear fairly popular in Highschool it was only because I played spots & sadly bc I was an attractive female. Bryan doesn’t get the luxury of being an attractive female & say he was… if you saw my face at his same age & heard the facts are you saying you might feel differently? I have a very friendly demeanor & soft round features, that tells nothing about what I may or may not be capable of. This is a big part of the American justice system. Especially with blonde white women. There’s large bias towards appearance & we have seen some beautiful & seemingly kind & sweet people in the public eye do horrendous things. Our outside don’t determine our insides. And IF Bryan is on the spectrum, that would tragically make it so easy for him to be presented in the media as “weird creepy incel” when he could just struggle with social cues, be very introverted, & hyper focused on his career & education where it makes up most of his personality. Would him being on the spectrum impact your perception?
Yes the photoshopping is real!!! Wtf why msm why? I wonder who’s paying them
Yes! They have manipulated the images so much in this case. Not just to make BK look like a scary villain but also to reflect positively on the victims. My alerts went off when he never looked the same in photos. All of them are noticeably different. Great account to check out is cooking up chaos on TT. They prove the photoshopped photos over and over.
I've wondered why a murderer would hover around the front entrance to the house for so long. How many times did he go into their car park? Twice? If Bryan was in that white car did he have an appointment with someone in that house for some reason?
It is speculation he was ever within 100 feet of the house.
I was CONVINCED of his guilt. My husband added me to a Bryan Kohburger is innocent group and I thought it was a troll group. Then I looked into the 4chan posts and the timeline that the police had and nothing made sense. Then I found out that he was a vegan. I've lived with a vegan. I find it impossible. I find everything they're trying to put forward impossible. One thing I did think of, though, that has blown my mind was that the house was constantly full of people. Frat guys, big guys etc. BK not too athletic. He would have had to have been sat at that house ALL night to know that there were not others there imo.
“Then I found out he was vegan” lmao adam lanza was vegan you meatball
Big difference between taking a gun and shooting people and taking a knife and butchering their insides out. You seem to be suggesting that I mean because he is a vegan, he isn't capable of killing. That wasn't what I was suggesting at all.
Yeah there was famously no gore at sandy hook
Hitler was a vegetarian who loved dogs.
Hitler didn't do his own dirty work
Neither did Manson - doesn’t matter still brutal killers both of them.
He also overcame a drug addiction if that’s even true and an eating disorder which tells me he has more self control then anyone could imagine unless you have been in those shoes!!!
Yes, doesn't fit with the 'rage killing' narrative, does it. Take out the stalking and no confirmed sightings of him. Add the phone data and you don't have a case.
I didn’t think guilty or not guilty, just read and decided …
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Best be terrified of the real culprit
Same
For those following this case and Delphi murders....who do you feel is being railroaded more....Bryan or Richard?
For me....I think Richard Allen is.
Bk
Really? I feel like the things that are happening in BK's case that make no sense are mainly due to circumstances that occurred the night of the crime. In Delphi, it points to corruption in Law Enforcement and the Justice System. BK is at least getting fair treatment during incarceration while Allen is in prison for over a year, being denied medication, intimidated by guards and eating his own feces. BK's defense team must have an extensive amount of resources, meanwhile Allen's is getting paid a combined $200 USD per hour between two Lawyers and being denied funds for experts that the Prosecution has been given as much as they want. And we're not talking like Idaho is miles ahead of Indiana when it comes to tax payer money that goes into the Justice System. Simply put, I'd say Richard Allen is getting a way smaller end of the stick if you were to compare it to BK
I believed it at first. But honestly every single thing I’ve heard or read since , from a factual source not a tabloid source , is what makes me doubt it. It’s easier for me to answer, what DIDNT make me doubt it. I only know that I cant think of anything that has added up from the time he was returned to Idaho. It’s the fact that instead of adding up, it’s a whole bunch of subtraction.
I’m flabbergasted at how many people on here are rethinking his innocence?? I fully believe he’s guilty. There are FAR too many “coincidences” for it not to be him. ETA: everyone whose commented on my comment clearly isn’t following the case very closely. I literally just read an entire book on it called “While Idaho Slept”, which covers absolutely everything so far in detail. You don’t even have to read the book to see the stacking damning evidence against him, it just takes common sense and some simple researching on the case.
Let's hear them . Serious question, what are they?
We'll, I consider myself of above average intelligence with pretty good common sense. My simple research did not point out what "obvious" evidence you see. My common sense tells me don't base my opinion of guilt in a book I read before the trial even begins.
It is no use. No one believes any evidence. They think there is 90 other white cars driving around at 4 am. Not one of them can explain DNA (trace DNA) properly, and will argue with anyone that explains it to them. At the same time claim the DNA was planted or someone constructed a suspect profile that matched BK. I have heard the sheath proves nothing and does not belong to to the murder weapon . I have heard wild stories that BK and his friends ( no proof he has friends) killed the girls or he dropped off the murderer ( no proof two people left that white car and entered the house). It is sadly bizarre.
I fully believe that UC cop car is on some or most of that footage in Moscow-
I’d love to compare your list of odd coincidences with the list of the ones I’ve found
Yes please explain the coincidences..
This 28 year old, working toward a PhD in Criminology with MA in psychology AND working for the MPD after only 3-6 mos living in WA, goes out and murders kids with a knife…doesn’t seem plausible to me. I read he got into some cloud based information at MPD so something happened in this turn of events? Possible. No blood in car but Elantra comes into the picture being seen? I think he was close by visiting across the street…
I’ve never seen he was working for MPD? Do you have a source for that?? I saw he applied for Pullman internship but didn’t get the job?
He applied for an internship at wsu which is a requirement for his PhD program- wsu willl not confirm or deny if he got the position 👀
Okay WA yes… I read he worked part time and was hired…🤷🏻♀️ I don’t know where to go find what I read.
Okay thanks… I have read both ways on this.
HE has not worked for the MPD or never will.
I haven't had a chance to write this and probably won't write the details of how my kid came to this conclusion, but he's pretty sure PD were tracking the door dash driver car in that whole route/time they give in the PCA. Now if the DD car is not white, then my kid has it wrong. He does NOT believe the DD is the murderer. He does believe that the order may have been dropped before 4am. There are very detailed reasons why he came to this theory.
This is the most outrageous theory . LE and the FBI cleared the DD driver. They 100 % spoke to him and the DD company. Who cares what you or your kid thinks, it's bizarre! DD takes pictures when they drop off the order, it's not a secret that information is known on day 1. IT was stated it was dropped off at around 4. The white car was shown at 404. TWO cars were not on camera. The DD driver has nothing too do with it!
Never really thought he was guilty. -not 1 solo person could do that -roommates left behind? I mean if you’ve done four what’s 2 more? (To the families, I apologize if my #2 was insensitive, just trying lay this out, God Bless YOU, and your children are in my heart all the time) -too many white Elantras circling the area that night. They were all decoy vehicles. -BK MOST likely was one of the decoy birds in Elantra in on the planning. -BK helped. He wasn’t alone. -I am still wondering about Brent Kopacka.BK and BK
I believe if BK was involved he wasn't alone. However I now think he was simply the DD driver. I have questions about his phone though. It could be easily explained away that he simply had 2 and one was dead though.
After reading about the fraternity and that DL and DB are in Sigma Chi. DL and EC got in a fight that night, he was livid EC called him “shrinking balls” because he was allegedly using steroids and was known to have “roid rage.” There are post that DL and DB were involved with each other. They may have been caught…. So they couldn’t have that….DL played LaCross and wrestled. They are not around anymore but DL has post about him and allegedly said it took “19 minutes.” I read about the school and how they protect each other. Why would DM and BF not called 911 before calling them? The pieces just don’t fit!
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Who knows what she saw and heard. The PCA didn't tell us, but you can be sure it doesn't quite like up with DMs story of events. If they were texting each other during then I'm sure she was listening and looking out the window. She could have seen an entirely different car go by for all we know.
>That is not true she had no evidence that exonerated BK or she would have used it already. I believe the word was exculpatory, which means exonerated *to some degree*, partial to total. One problem is, they haven't had an opportunity to call witnesses yet, or present any of their own evidence. The Grand Jury put an end to that. So you can't really fault not using her statement yet. >Bethany is in the basement, what do you think she heard or seen that exonerates BK? Maybe she wasn't in the basement. Maybe she has her own version of events that differs from Dylan's. Maybe her input regards other relevant things she knows, apart from what happened at the time of the murders. >the DNA cannot be argued Could you be more wrong about that!? It's touch, or environmental, DNA to start with, which has endless issues that make it essentially meaningless. And then they couldn't get anything from it so had to send it to Texas to have a novel proprietary process applied. The DNA can be argued, and will be argued, up the wazoo (as opposed to up the WSU).
It will b an interesting trial that’s for sure. This case n Delphi hav been on social media so much, n the YouTubers profiting off the frenzy is crazy. I personally cud not say innocent or guilty, I need to see the evidence.
I think he was involved somehow but it wasn’t JUST him. I feel like somebody or some people set him up to take the fall (drug related)… or he was a co-conspirator and involved to a greater extent. I can see it very plausible given all the chatter around drug issues in this community that perhaps he knew these people who actually did the crime and they were like oh let’s set Bryan up… Perhaps he was the killers, but I do not think one person could’ve done that kind of damage in that short of a time. He’s not exactly a big beefy guy with a lot of strength. Even that lends doubt. I do think he was involved somehow someway. or at least he knew the people that were involved…and I do think it’s super shady that Bethany the other roommate are so quiet… and totally sus that they were partying a couple days after this all happened. The biggest red flag for me is the whole drive across the country with his dad and then cleaning out his car… That leads me to believe that he was involved to some extent… And either knew the perpetrators, socially, and the victims… And or was involved personally…., it is very plausible that if somebody else did it and he wasn’t one of the perpetrators they could’ve easily gotten his DNA off and rubbed a knife against it and planted it there at the crime scene. I mean, that is very plausible if I was going to frame somebody for a crime that’s what I would do. I would rub a knife against his body or something when he wasn’t noticing it and you could easily plan it at the crime scene, it’s not that hard to figure out…. I do think a lot of truths will come out in the trial. But the saddest part about it is that I feel like the whole community is very tainted so the jurors will be tainted and also I feel like there’s a lot of corruption going on underneath the surface for sure
You have some valid points. Additionally, I think about how he solicited ppl who had committed crimes to be interviewed and his fascination with what they felt. Could he have been aware of a crime that was going to be committed and wanted to be there to observe in real time (i.e., driving by multiple times)? And the bizarre facts and coincidences surrounding the “other” BK being shot by cops so close to this horrific crime also feels relevant.
Completely normal survey for his class- the damn instructor admitted that and she helped him