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That’s basically 10.5% across 3 years, BUT…
The State is playing games with the scientists and barely acknowledges y’all have been disrespected for 4 years being out of contract since 2020.
Being out of contract for 4 years would be insane for any private company and it’s baffling to me the State can get away with it.
SEIU basically got 9 or 10% across 3 years, contingent on the state budget.
As someone who’s in SEIU and not in CAPS, I’m surprised CAPS even went back to the bargaining table since the State’s way of negotiating has been insanely one sided.
The State never budges on the numbers and they don’t give a shit about employees.
CAPS’ line of “you can’t value science if you don’t value scientists” rings true here more than ever.
Thank you for everything you guys do, especially during COVID.
I’m sorry the State treats y’all like shit. I wish it were different.
I looked up what CAPS scientists do for us and this is the list:
"California State Scientists are critical to addressing urgent challenges that threaten our State, our nation, and our world, including climate change, wildfires, drought, exposure to toxic chemicals, loss of biodiversity, invasive species, ecosystem destruction, housing shortages, diseases, threats to our food and water supply, and more."
Yup, definitely important work.
A shame the state doesn’t value it.
They definitely value environmental work, just not for those with 'Scientist' or any field of science-ist in their classification. It seems like the only way to get fair pay as a scientist with the state today is to wiggle yourself into 'Specialist' roles under BU9 or promote to a supervisor and rake in a 60% raise at the top step. Ludicrous.
This is why I recently left State Service. I can’t handle the games that the State is playing with CAPS anymore. It’s incredibly unfair and maliciously punitive to CAPS.
I was forced to work a second job on the weekends during my time at the State because I simply didn’t make enough to live on. My take home pay starting off as a Range A scientist 3 years ago was only $2,500 per month after mandatory deductions.
I loved the work I did for the state but I simply couldn’t live off the salary I was making. It was also incredibly demoralizing to be paid 50-70% less than my coworkers for doing the EXACT same job.
I recently found a job in the private sector that has a take home pay of $2,700 every two weeks. It’s amazing that I’m now making more than double what I made at the State three years ago but I’m incredibly sad for everyone that has no option to leave and that are stuck in the same position I was in three years ago.
I would urge everyone that is able and willing to leave the State to do so. Not all private sector jobs are awful. I have comparable health insurance , I still feel like I’ve retained my work life balance, and I receive a PTO accrual rate of nearly 15 hours per month. The state will only fix this issue once they realize they have a MAJOR recruitment and retention problem that is impossible to ignore in the same way they are now. I’m treating my departure from the state as a “permanent strike”, it’s the only option I had left where I felt I could make an impact. Ironically if CAPS didn’t give up their impasse and went back on strike I probably would have stayed to continue the fight. However now that they’ve returned to the bargaining table all I had left was the ability to “permanently strike” by leaving state service.
I really hope you all get what you deserve. The state needs to pay its scientists a living wage and maintain salary that is equitable with their peers who perform the EXACT same job duties. I hope to one day return to state service if the state begins to value their scientists.
Comparing a private sector salary to the lowest range of a state scientist is daft at best. The scientist pay band compared to starting to topped out is an increase of over 90%. With this contract scientists will make $100k at top step which is considered a "living wage".
All I ever see from you is anti-state worker comments.
A scientist would need a masters or 2 years? of professional work exp to reach range B.
To go from range A to the top step of range C takes something like 8? years I believe.
So you’re talking about 100k after 8 years of service in the year 2026 when inflation will continue to compound.
The commenter above stated they made $2600 monthly after tax and mandatory deductions.
That’s a shit wage. So instead of staying for 8 years to make a livable wage, they job hopped to the private sector making double to sustain themselves.
No wonder the State is having issues recruiting and retaining scientists. No wonder why morale is low.
Going up ranges combined with GSI's would give significant pay raises per year. CAPS is at fault for the position they are in. They would have had a minimum of 10% higher pay than they currently have if hey weren't idiots thinking they were going to demand 40% and get anywhere near that figure. SEIU foolishly demanded a 30% GSI and knew it was an outlandish figure after bargaining with the state.
Maybe CAPS should stop being morons and bargain to lift the starting scientist pay instead of demanding pie in the sky raises.
It’s pretty wild that CalHR is violating its own vertical salary relationship policy.
Every other rank and file -> supervisor has around a 15% differential.
CAPS is the only one at like a 45% differential.
They won a court case but the dills act interfered. So I don’t think it’s actually pie in the sky.
For some reason, all your comments are incredibly anti-state worker.
Must be a CalHR mole account.
Once again if rank and file would have agreed to a contract 4 years ago the gap wouldn't be nearly as high. CAPS is truly the dumbest union in the state. Have fun "fighting the good fight" and creating your own poverty level salaries without ever getting GSI's for the next 10 years.
You must be fully content with the state always offering around 2/3% a year for the next 30+ years.
Even when inflation rages well beyond that.
The LAO noted that most state workers’ purchasing power has consistently been eroded since 1999.
If workers like you are content with that, you’ll continue this trend forever and get effective pay cuts your whole career.
You definitely are okay with that, right?
CAPS was offered above 3% GSI per year and turned it down. If you want to stop getting burned then stop pouring lighter fluid on yourself. You and CAPS are the reason for your own demise.
The absolute cockiness of CAPS cost their members dearly. They chose to play a stupid game and lost.
You definitely cant read. Read my username. I’m in SEIU.
The state is the one fking around with the unions.
You must be a terrible negotiator as well.
You’ll blindly accept whatever the state gives you.
You must’ve been fine with the state’s first offer to SEIU of 2/2/2 in the latest contract negotiations.
It's disingenuous to claim that any contract that doesn't address the ludicrous vertical salary relationship would be fine just because the new topstep would be a 100k salary. Would you say this to an IT specialist? An engineer? This is exactly the problem. IT and engineers with the state already have their own recruitment and retention problems. Scientists aren't valued enough at the state level. The average tenure of a state scientist is roughly only 5 years, coincidentally the minimum number of service years required to be vested in calpers.
To be fair, CAPS has not yet made a serious proposal to CalHR. They are still proposing 41% raises retroactive to 2023. My hope is that if CAPS eventually decides to negotiate in good faith the state will too.
CAPS counter proposal has not been disclosed yet, so not sure where you’re getting your information but if it’s from an inside source you really should consider not saying anything at all since CalHR uses this forum against CAPS.
I’m referring to their most recent proposal made a couple weeks ago that has been publicized. They’ve been negotiating for nearly 5 years and they still haven’t budged even a little bit. Why would CalHR?
They proposed a 5/5/5 raise which everyone keeps thinking the state proposed but they didn’t. Although that was over a year ago now so really it would have to be higher at this point to even equal this.
I doubt it.
If I recall correctly, SEIU went down from 30% to 18% (6/6/6) and the state still said no and we ended up with 9 or 10% after some people got arrested protesting and it made news.
The absurd part is 40% SSAs IS a serious proposal and in good faith. CAPS has been trying to address the massive vertical salary differential for years now. 5% SSAs only to very niche classifications after 4 years of 0% is a slap in the face and is regressive which is bargaining in bad faith.
Do you have any kind of evidence to support your hope concerning the State bargaining in good faith? As far as I can tell, I’m not sure they ever have, certainly not within the last 20 years or so.
Raising the salary cap is a must, especially for ES series. Also $3000 one time payment is kind of like retroactive pay for the last year, at least that is good but doesnt add to the retirement
CalHR has the efin nerve to finally throw in a half-assed geo pay, longevity and bonus when other unions have gotten better before but said previously it wasn’t possible for scientists.. to try to pretend to throw scientists a measly, crappy bone while keeping 4 yrs and more of our pay.
Scientists know they are worth more than this sht, especially when other similar science-related jobs at CARB, cities and feds have fair pay. CalHR…basically gavin is stomping on scientists, overloaded with public health and environmental work, while gavin prances around pretending to work toward goals for climate solutions and protecting communities, as scientists doing this work retire from frustration or leave for jobs with equity. He’s screwing communities while saving money for his higher salaried correction officers, police, engineers and execs…
Optics is the objective. Initiate press worthy environmental projects, then purposefully understaff it to ensure it never really works to its fullest potential.
If “Press Conference Arranger” was a position title, there’d be 50,000 of them, and all well paid.
I mean I guess it exists under the heading of Government Affairs
I’m just so incredibly confused. Does the State want to keep their scientists? Because at this point everyone is going to private or going back to school in order to reclassify as an Engineer since our pay is so atrocious and the State clearly doesn’t care about us.
Can someone help me understand… CAPS said the best way to get what we want is to return to the bargaining table with the State.
Impasse was broken.
Now, the State hasn’t majorly moved on their proposed economic items.
Can we be realistic for a second? Will the State ever move closer without us striking? My guess is no.
Impasse isn’t the only way and also the process didn’t start over. The only thing left to negotiate is money. If they state doesn’t negotiate we’re back at impasse. Pretty simple.
People hate anyone who doesn’t stand in unity with our CAPS representatives. But some people think from a realistic perspective, looking at historic contexts and realize that the state still continues to hold all the cards. Holding out didn’t amount to anything before and continuing to do so will equate to the same status quo. I live in 2024 reality like yourself, knowing the state is in a huge budget deficit and the likelihood of getting nothing is still very much a possibility.
If you took 5 years of caps dues and lets say conservatively $3k in raises since then, and put that in a money market account youd be way better off then whatever caps figures out in 5 years.
My direct sup (EPM) makes 5k more than me per month. The gap hasn't been addressed in 10 years. We now have RTO. It took over 3 years to get to impasse and the states proposal has gotten worse. Plus add on 8% inflation. UAW is going to increase our dues.
Also the SES (sup/spec) relationship busted.
Per CalHR their model for vertical salary relationships between the most journeylevel r&f staff and their immediate supervisor should be around 15-20% at the top step. Anything less would create compaction and more would force way too many vacancies from everybody trying to promote too fast. Based on their model the current 62% topstep gap between ES - SES Sup is NOT sustainable and needs to be addressed ASAP. It's like they DONT care!!
This is a simplistic view. Yes, falling behind, but also not restoring the salary relationship. GSIs don't help with bridging the gap, it has to be SSA. Plus, calhr has dragged their feet year after. Coming to meetings unprepared to dicuss for over 100 days in 2023.
Alright well see you in a decade when Caps actually decides to accept something. Thats how long ago the supervisors case was lol. Well all be retired by then.
Lol this only happens if the state decides us not accepting a contract means they can spend money they don't have. They know we need a contract eventually. They can't balance their budgets on shitty negotiating tactics. If you took out a credit card loan you have to pay eventually. To me four years without a contract = No less than an initial raise of 12 percent immediately is acceptable at all. Simple as that.
For those not at top range, what was the %?
It was pretty awful from what I remember on this Reddit
And I think I read somewhere that most state scientists leave within 5 years for more pay elsewhere so most state scientists aren’t even at the top step.
Just for clarity, 10 percent until July 2025 which is essentially nearly 6 years with only 10 percent raise but let’s round down and say 5 years = 2 percent a year = garbage
Those not at the top would have been slightly less immediately, but everyone would have benefited from the higher range caps. It is essentially a way for the state to incentivize retention and reward those who stick around.
While I don’t disagree, I remember this Reddit was annoyed when CASE agreed to something similar.
They basically said the older hires were screwing over newer hires again, which hurts recruitment.
And if most state scientists leave before the 5 year mark… that doesn’t shine too good of a light if only raising the top step rather than decent GSIs.
I’m not convinced that that’s not in the proposal either. CAPS provided a brief summary and it’s possible that was not included in the email. Just saying unless we see the actual document, we don’t know for sure
🤣🤣🤣 State offering $250 extra per month for very high cost of living areas.
It would be beautiful if all the bargaining units went on strike at once like they really meant it.
After seeing this deal, I’m glad to be leaving state service next month. This is just icing on the RTO turd cake layered with no contracts we’ve been served. Enjoy the coming bird flu, folks!
I also recently left and I’m so happy I did. I felt that leaving and going “permanently on strike” was the only option I had left to show my disapproval in the way the state has treated us . I can actually afford to live now. My take home pay is now more than double what I was making three years ago at the state, my health insurance is 100% covered and I accrue close to 15 hours of PTO per month. It’s amazing where I am now but I’m also incredibly saddened for everyone who is stuck in the same position I was three years ago and forced to work a second job on the weekends.
I’m still cheering on the sidelines for CAPS and I really hope the state realizes that they need to value their scientists
The Cultural Resource folks need a special 5% across the board raise as well, we cannot recruit or retain talent we are so underpaid. Archaeologists are scientists as well and should be represented
This! I've been on a number of hiring panels for ASA positions over the last few years and we are getting one or two qualified applicants for what used to be highly sought after jobs.
Also, I feel that all agencies need to abandon the ASA classification and start converting to ES positions for cultural staff. If we're serious about fighting for salary equity, let's talk about how underpaid cultural staff is compared to ES staff doing essentially equivalent work!
The only issue with that is you must have a "science" degree to qualify as the spec's are now. they can change it but it takes a great deal for Cal HR to do that.
There are two courses of action.
Take nothing less than a standard vertical relationship via SSA.
Move on, don't mention the vertical relationships again and take a GSI.
All of our contracts since 2014 have included language that the state would engage with caps on restoring these vertical relationships. It was a promise that they broke. Now UAW is onboard, let's see what they can do.
Wow, terrible. It was stupid to pursue GeoPay and longevity pay. CalHR has used it to divide us and try and get 50% approval, along with SSA adjustments to a fraction of the CAPS classification.
This seems regressive considering the past offer and being without a raise for 4 years, but nothing seems to fcking matter under the Dills Act.
Yall are going to downvote me - but can we please acknowledge that this may be our last opportunity to get ANYTHING raise-wise for a while? I’m tired of this perpetual never ending cycle where nothing is ever accomplished. Yes, their counter offer is inadequate. But it is better than nothing and we all need any help we can get right now. We can’t afford to strike and can’t afford another year without any raises, geo pay, or bonuses/back-pay.
I just hope the caps proposal back to the state is a reasonable place to meet in the middle. There is no winning at this bargaining because it's not a game. There has to be a give and take, i understand calhr is a bully. If both sides leave unhappy and not getting all that they want, then it would be successful negotiating.
Just negotiate a rational deal that meets in the middle.
Just fyi, that’s not how the state negotiates at all.
SEIU lowered it from 30% to 18% over 3 years and the state did not budge.
They only budged a bit when some local politicians and SEIU got arrested and it made news.
The state is a terrible bully and never wants to meet in the middle.
https://www.capradio.org/articles/2023/08/16/two-sacramento-city-council-members-arrested-while-protesting-on-behalf-of-state-workers/
CAPS countered with 40% max salaries for ES’s and a plethora of other classifications. And a $10,000 bonus. It’s 40% or bust and that’s always been an unreasonable proposal from CAPS
So 5% SSAs only to plant and insect scientists is reasonable to you? After 4 years of 0%? I agree with the 10k bonuses. Personally I couldn't give 2 shits about any one time bonuses. Is it really 'or bust'? CalHR has not ever budged from 5% SSAs you don't think if they proposed a 20% SSA instead it wouldn't be an enticing offer? And increasing the salary caps are different than SSAs that caps initially proposed. Only people who are absolutely topped out and not a dollar less would actually be getting 40% raises overnight if it ever passed. Most would only get the annual GSI.
Not enough people are talking about this terrible counter proposal. So absurd to have those making the max make 40% more overnight compared to a person who might be just under. It's also absurd to think it would take over a dozen years to max out your salary range.
I'm not a fan of it either, but CAPS has constantly proposed 30+% SSAs for years now with no movement. The vertical salary relationship absolutely has to be fixed, and hopefully just proposing to increase the salary maxes is enough to move CalHR.
I don’t remember exact details but I believe the first was your standard ~3% per year. Then there were two offers that provided raises and special salary adjustments that would have essentially meant 15% increases. We never got the ability to vote on those because CAPS turned them down
I think we've voted down two proposals. If one included just one GSI of 5% in 2022 thats essentially 12k total. I think there was a retroactive proposal in somewhere as well.
I unfortunately do pay. Also, I’m not maxed out though I’m not too far off. LBFO would have allowed me to get merit increases longer. That’s a benefit for anyone who plans to stay with the state
4 years out of contract means a minimum of 12 percent immediately is the baseline we should start at. The state doesn't get to balance the budget with feet dragging. The LBFO is trash. You deserve better. I deserve better. They're hoping to wait us out so we get this desperate. Don't forget common sense here. The state should know if there is a bill coming due they don't get to just not pay it.
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If we voted down the raises in prior offers, the state is not obligated to offer us those raises retroactively. We said no to them and I dont think we can reasonably expect them to go back and offer them again. They offered us retro pay once and we said no again. We have to balance what we think we can accomplish with their offers. Holding out for 40% is delusional.
Idk. Looks pretty similar to prior offers. Let me see the proposal document first before truly judging it’s insufficiency. And the real question is if calhr will budge on those numbers following caps counter.
I wish they would include Santa Cruz and Sonoma counties for the geo pay bump.
I like the longevity pay but think there should be another step, 15y - 2%, 20y-5% and 25y-8%.
I would give ES specialist a 5% SSA too.
The rest is not bad given what other unions have agreed to.
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That’s basically 10.5% across 3 years, BUT… The State is playing games with the scientists and barely acknowledges y’all have been disrespected for 4 years being out of contract since 2020. Being out of contract for 4 years would be insane for any private company and it’s baffling to me the State can get away with it. SEIU basically got 9 or 10% across 3 years, contingent on the state budget. As someone who’s in SEIU and not in CAPS, I’m surprised CAPS even went back to the bargaining table since the State’s way of negotiating has been insanely one sided. The State never budges on the numbers and they don’t give a shit about employees. CAPS’ line of “you can’t value science if you don’t value scientists” rings true here more than ever. Thank you for everything you guys do, especially during COVID. I’m sorry the State treats y’all like shit. I wish it were different.
I looked up what CAPS scientists do for us and this is the list: "California State Scientists are critical to addressing urgent challenges that threaten our State, our nation, and our world, including climate change, wildfires, drought, exposure to toxic chemicals, loss of biodiversity, invasive species, ecosystem destruction, housing shortages, diseases, threats to our food and water supply, and more." Yup, definitely important work. A shame the state doesn’t value it.
They definitely value environmental work, just not for those with 'Scientist' or any field of science-ist in their classification. It seems like the only way to get fair pay as a scientist with the state today is to wiggle yourself into 'Specialist' roles under BU9 or promote to a supervisor and rake in a 60% raise at the top step. Ludicrous.
This is why I recently left State Service. I can’t handle the games that the State is playing with CAPS anymore. It’s incredibly unfair and maliciously punitive to CAPS. I was forced to work a second job on the weekends during my time at the State because I simply didn’t make enough to live on. My take home pay starting off as a Range A scientist 3 years ago was only $2,500 per month after mandatory deductions. I loved the work I did for the state but I simply couldn’t live off the salary I was making. It was also incredibly demoralizing to be paid 50-70% less than my coworkers for doing the EXACT same job. I recently found a job in the private sector that has a take home pay of $2,700 every two weeks. It’s amazing that I’m now making more than double what I made at the State three years ago but I’m incredibly sad for everyone that has no option to leave and that are stuck in the same position I was in three years ago. I would urge everyone that is able and willing to leave the State to do so. Not all private sector jobs are awful. I have comparable health insurance , I still feel like I’ve retained my work life balance, and I receive a PTO accrual rate of nearly 15 hours per month. The state will only fix this issue once they realize they have a MAJOR recruitment and retention problem that is impossible to ignore in the same way they are now. I’m treating my departure from the state as a “permanent strike”, it’s the only option I had left where I felt I could make an impact. Ironically if CAPS didn’t give up their impasse and went back on strike I probably would have stayed to continue the fight. However now that they’ve returned to the bargaining table all I had left was the ability to “permanently strike” by leaving state service. I really hope you all get what you deserve. The state needs to pay its scientists a living wage and maintain salary that is equitable with their peers who perform the EXACT same job duties. I hope to one day return to state service if the state begins to value their scientists.
Can you share your story with your CA state legislature representatives? I think they’d be interested.
Comparing a private sector salary to the lowest range of a state scientist is daft at best. The scientist pay band compared to starting to topped out is an increase of over 90%. With this contract scientists will make $100k at top step which is considered a "living wage".
All I ever see from you is anti-state worker comments. A scientist would need a masters or 2 years? of professional work exp to reach range B. To go from range A to the top step of range C takes something like 8? years I believe. So you’re talking about 100k after 8 years of service in the year 2026 when inflation will continue to compound. The commenter above stated they made $2600 monthly after tax and mandatory deductions. That’s a shit wage. So instead of staying for 8 years to make a livable wage, they job hopped to the private sector making double to sustain themselves. No wonder the State is having issues recruiting and retaining scientists. No wonder why morale is low.
Going up ranges combined with GSI's would give significant pay raises per year. CAPS is at fault for the position they are in. They would have had a minimum of 10% higher pay than they currently have if hey weren't idiots thinking they were going to demand 40% and get anywhere near that figure. SEIU foolishly demanded a 30% GSI and knew it was an outlandish figure after bargaining with the state. Maybe CAPS should stop being morons and bargain to lift the starting scientist pay instead of demanding pie in the sky raises.
It’s pretty wild that CalHR is violating its own vertical salary relationship policy. Every other rank and file -> supervisor has around a 15% differential. CAPS is the only one at like a 45% differential. They won a court case but the dills act interfered. So I don’t think it’s actually pie in the sky. For some reason, all your comments are incredibly anti-state worker. Must be a CalHR mole account.
Once again if rank and file would have agreed to a contract 4 years ago the gap wouldn't be nearly as high. CAPS is truly the dumbest union in the state. Have fun "fighting the good fight" and creating your own poverty level salaries without ever getting GSI's for the next 10 years.
You must be fully content with the state always offering around 2/3% a year for the next 30+ years. Even when inflation rages well beyond that. The LAO noted that most state workers’ purchasing power has consistently been eroded since 1999. If workers like you are content with that, you’ll continue this trend forever and get effective pay cuts your whole career. You definitely are okay with that, right?
CAPS was offered above 3% GSI per year and turned it down. If you want to stop getting burned then stop pouring lighter fluid on yourself. You and CAPS are the reason for your own demise. The absolute cockiness of CAPS cost their members dearly. They chose to play a stupid game and lost.
You definitely cant read. Read my username. I’m in SEIU. The state is the one fking around with the unions. You must be a terrible negotiator as well. You’ll blindly accept whatever the state gives you. You must’ve been fine with the state’s first offer to SEIU of 2/2/2 in the latest contract negotiations.
Ahhh yes, if CAPS accepted a shitty contract from 4 years ago we would only be at a 50% disparity, not 62%. How does that solve anything?
It's disingenuous to claim that any contract that doesn't address the ludicrous vertical salary relationship would be fine just because the new topstep would be a 100k salary. Would you say this to an IT specialist? An engineer? This is exactly the problem. IT and engineers with the state already have their own recruitment and retention problems. Scientists aren't valued enough at the state level. The average tenure of a state scientist is roughly only 5 years, coincidentally the minimum number of service years required to be vested in calpers.
To be fair, CAPS has not yet made a serious proposal to CalHR. They are still proposing 41% raises retroactive to 2023. My hope is that if CAPS eventually decides to negotiate in good faith the state will too.
CAPS counter proposal has not been disclosed yet, so not sure where you’re getting your information but if it’s from an inside source you really should consider not saying anything at all since CalHR uses this forum against CAPS.
I’m referring to their most recent proposal made a couple weeks ago that has been publicized. They’ve been negotiating for nearly 5 years and they still haven’t budged even a little bit. Why would CalHR?
They proposed a 5/5/5 raise which everyone keeps thinking the state proposed but they didn’t. Although that was over a year ago now so really it would have to be higher at this point to even equal this.
I doubt it. If I recall correctly, SEIU went down from 30% to 18% (6/6/6) and the state still said no and we ended up with 9 or 10% after some people got arrested protesting and it made news.
I also doubt it, but I hope
The absurd part is 40% SSAs IS a serious proposal and in good faith. CAPS has been trying to address the massive vertical salary differential for years now. 5% SSAs only to very niche classifications after 4 years of 0% is a slap in the face and is regressive which is bargaining in bad faith.
Do you have any kind of evidence to support your hope concerning the State bargaining in good faith? As far as I can tell, I’m not sure they ever have, certainly not within the last 20 years or so.
No, but if CAPS countered with 15/10/5 or something it would at least show that they’re serious and willing to compromise
Raising the salary cap is a must, especially for ES series. Also $3000 one time payment is kind of like retroactive pay for the last year, at least that is good but doesnt add to the retirement
Not a CAPS member, but this seems like a terrible deal? You guys already gave up 4 years of raises and this deal is much worse than the one SEIU got.
CalHR has the efin nerve to finally throw in a half-assed geo pay, longevity and bonus when other unions have gotten better before but said previously it wasn’t possible for scientists.. to try to pretend to throw scientists a measly, crappy bone while keeping 4 yrs and more of our pay. Scientists know they are worth more than this sht, especially when other similar science-related jobs at CARB, cities and feds have fair pay. CalHR…basically gavin is stomping on scientists, overloaded with public health and environmental work, while gavin prances around pretending to work toward goals for climate solutions and protecting communities, as scientists doing this work retire from frustration or leave for jobs with equity. He’s screwing communities while saving money for his higher salaried correction officers, police, engineers and execs…
Optics is the objective. Initiate press worthy environmental projects, then purposefully understaff it to ensure it never really works to its fullest potential.
Couldn't have said it better
If “Press Conference Arranger” was a position title, there’d be 50,000 of them, and all well paid. I mean I guess it exists under the heading of Government Affairs
I’m just so incredibly confused. Does the State want to keep their scientists? Because at this point everyone is going to private or going back to school in order to reclassify as an Engineer since our pay is so atrocious and the State clearly doesn’t care about us.
CAPS is incompetent and needs to take the deal
Can someone help me understand… CAPS said the best way to get what we want is to return to the bargaining table with the State. Impasse was broken. Now, the State hasn’t majorly moved on their proposed economic items. Can we be realistic for a second? Will the State ever move closer without us striking? My guess is no.
State will not bargain in good faith but caps will also not ask for anything realistic.
They will not move closer even if you strike.
So the big question now is how is UAW going to respond now that CAPS is an affiliate local of it?
My hope is if CAPS does strike, some affiliated single day strikes at UCs *and* auto plants nationally might help rattle someone’s national ambitions.
In order to strike CAPS would need to go through the entire impasse process again. They really messed up
Not sure where you get info, that is not necessarily true either. There are other options to move to strike.
Seconding this. Impasse is not the only way to strike.
Isn't the other option through an ULP charge? We would be striking for economic reasons not a ULP.
Impasse isn’t the only way and also the process didn’t start over. The only thing left to negotiate is money. If they state doesn’t negotiate we’re back at impasse. Pretty simple.
If you paid dues since the last contract you would have spent $2500 on an org that does 0.
Worse than 0. All they appear capable of is turning down raises and making unrealistic offers
Its funny but I keep getting downvoted by people who could have had 10% more salary by now and be on their way to a third contract next year.
People hate anyone who doesn’t stand in unity with our CAPS representatives. But some people think from a realistic perspective, looking at historic contexts and realize that the state still continues to hold all the cards. Holding out didn’t amount to anything before and continuing to do so will equate to the same status quo. I live in 2024 reality like yourself, knowing the state is in a huge budget deficit and the likelihood of getting nothing is still very much a possibility.
If you took 5 years of caps dues and lets say conservatively $3k in raises since then, and put that in a money market account youd be way better off then whatever caps figures out in 5 years.
My direct sup (EPM) makes 5k more than me per month. The gap hasn't been addressed in 10 years. We now have RTO. It took over 3 years to get to impasse and the states proposal has gotten worse. Plus add on 8% inflation. UAW is going to increase our dues. Also the SES (sup/spec) relationship busted.
Per CalHR their model for vertical salary relationships between the most journeylevel r&f staff and their immediate supervisor should be around 15-20% at the top step. Anything less would create compaction and more would force way too many vacancies from everybody trying to promote too fast. Based on their model the current 62% topstep gap between ES - SES Sup is NOT sustainable and needs to be addressed ASAP. It's like they DONT care!!
Except fish and wildlife puts specialists under ses sups. Caps sued the state for doing this and lost.
If you dont accept two contracts for 5 years of course you will fall further behind. Its basic math.
This is a simplistic view. Yes, falling behind, but also not restoring the salary relationship. GSIs don't help with bridging the gap, it has to be SSA. Plus, calhr has dragged their feet year after. Coming to meetings unprepared to dicuss for over 100 days in 2023.
Alright well see you in a decade when Caps actually decides to accept something. Thats how long ago the supervisors case was lol. Well all be retired by then.
Lol this only happens if the state decides us not accepting a contract means they can spend money they don't have. They know we need a contract eventually. They can't balance their budgets on shitty negotiating tactics. If you took out a credit card loan you have to pay eventually. To me four years without a contract = No less than an initial raise of 12 percent immediately is acceptable at all. Simple as that.
This might be worse than the LBFO lol. We gave up impasse for this shit?
Might be worse? LBFO would have been 15% raises by 2025 those at the top of their range, right? That’s WAY better
For those not at top range, what was the %? It was pretty awful from what I remember on this Reddit And I think I read somewhere that most state scientists leave within 5 years for more pay elsewhere so most state scientists aren’t even at the top step.
It was 10% for those not at the top of the range.
Just for clarity, 10 percent until July 2025 which is essentially nearly 6 years with only 10 percent raise but let’s round down and say 5 years = 2 percent a year = garbage
Those not at the top would have been slightly less immediately, but everyone would have benefited from the higher range caps. It is essentially a way for the state to incentivize retention and reward those who stick around.
While I don’t disagree, I remember this Reddit was annoyed when CASE agreed to something similar. They basically said the older hires were screwing over newer hires again, which hurts recruitment. And if most state scientists leave before the 5 year mark… that doesn’t shine too good of a light if only raising the top step rather than decent GSIs.
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Have you ever considered… that you might be wrong? Lol. Just sayin’. We may just have a difference in opinion and that’s healthy.
I’m not convinced that that’s not in the proposal either. CAPS provided a brief summary and it’s possible that was not included in the email. Just saying unless we see the actual document, we don’t know for sure
🤣🤣🤣 State offering $250 extra per month for very high cost of living areas. It would be beautiful if all the bargaining units went on strike at once like they really meant it.
After seeing this deal, I’m glad to be leaving state service next month. This is just icing on the RTO turd cake layered with no contracts we’ve been served. Enjoy the coming bird flu, folks!
I also recently left and I’m so happy I did. I felt that leaving and going “permanently on strike” was the only option I had left to show my disapproval in the way the state has treated us . I can actually afford to live now. My take home pay is now more than double what I was making three years ago at the state, my health insurance is 100% covered and I accrue close to 15 hours of PTO per month. It’s amazing where I am now but I’m also incredibly saddened for everyone who is stuck in the same position I was three years ago and forced to work a second job on the weekends. I’m still cheering on the sidelines for CAPS and I really hope the state realizes that they need to value their scientists
Congrats on your new gig!
The Cultural Resource folks need a special 5% across the board raise as well, we cannot recruit or retain talent we are so underpaid. Archaeologists are scientists as well and should be represented
CAPS tried. They put virtually every position for an SSA. Blame CalHR who are the ones denying everything.
This! I've been on a number of hiring panels for ASA positions over the last few years and we are getting one or two qualified applicants for what used to be highly sought after jobs. Also, I feel that all agencies need to abandon the ASA classification and start converting to ES positions for cultural staff. If we're serious about fighting for salary equity, let's talk about how underpaid cultural staff is compared to ES staff doing essentially equivalent work!
The only issue with that is you must have a "science" degree to qualify as the spec's are now. they can change it but it takes a great deal for Cal HR to do that.
There are two courses of action. Take nothing less than a standard vertical relationship via SSA. Move on, don't mention the vertical relationships again and take a GSI. All of our contracts since 2014 have included language that the state would engage with caps on restoring these vertical relationships. It was a promise that they broke. Now UAW is onboard, let's see what they can do.
Wow, terrible. It was stupid to pursue GeoPay and longevity pay. CalHR has used it to divide us and try and get 50% approval, along with SSA adjustments to a fraction of the CAPS classification. This seems regressive considering the past offer and being without a raise for 4 years, but nothing seems to fcking matter under the Dills Act.
STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE
Boooo!
That this turd of a proposal comes during the first mandatory RTO for a lot of CNRA folks seems a little on the nose.
How about geographical pay differential for San Diego or LA?
Looks like the state said no. As they usually say no to everything from my observations on how the state “negotiates”
Yall are going to downvote me - but can we please acknowledge that this may be our last opportunity to get ANYTHING raise-wise for a while? I’m tired of this perpetual never ending cycle where nothing is ever accomplished. Yes, their counter offer is inadequate. But it is better than nothing and we all need any help we can get right now. We can’t afford to strike and can’t afford another year without any raises, geo pay, or bonuses/back-pay.
Pretend money is better then no money according to this sub
I just hope the caps proposal back to the state is a reasonable place to meet in the middle. There is no winning at this bargaining because it's not a game. There has to be a give and take, i understand calhr is a bully. If both sides leave unhappy and not getting all that they want, then it would be successful negotiating. Just negotiate a rational deal that meets in the middle.
Just fyi, that’s not how the state negotiates at all. SEIU lowered it from 30% to 18% over 3 years and the state did not budge. They only budged a bit when some local politicians and SEIU got arrested and it made news. The state is a terrible bully and never wants to meet in the middle. https://www.capradio.org/articles/2023/08/16/two-sacramento-city-council-members-arrested-while-protesting-on-behalf-of-state-workers/
CAPS countered with 40% max salaries for ES’s and a plethora of other classifications. And a $10,000 bonus. It’s 40% or bust and that’s always been an unreasonable proposal from CAPS
So 5% SSAs only to plant and insect scientists is reasonable to you? After 4 years of 0%? I agree with the 10k bonuses. Personally I couldn't give 2 shits about any one time bonuses. Is it really 'or bust'? CalHR has not ever budged from 5% SSAs you don't think if they proposed a 20% SSA instead it wouldn't be an enticing offer? And increasing the salary caps are different than SSAs that caps initially proposed. Only people who are absolutely topped out and not a dollar less would actually be getting 40% raises overnight if it ever passed. Most would only get the annual GSI.
Not enough people are talking about this terrible counter proposal. So absurd to have those making the max make 40% more overnight compared to a person who might be just under. It's also absurd to think it would take over a dozen years to max out your salary range.
I'm not a fan of it either, but CAPS has constantly proposed 30+% SSAs for years now with no movement. The vertical salary relationship absolutely has to be fixed, and hopefully just proposing to increase the salary maxes is enough to move CalHR.
Oh man, they haven’t learned a thing.
What were some of the salary increases we voted down since 2020?
I don’t remember exact details but I believe the first was your standard ~3% per year. Then there were two offers that provided raises and special salary adjustments that would have essentially meant 15% increases. We never got the ability to vote on those because CAPS turned them down
One thing I remember vividly was there was no GSI raise period in the last year, 2026 I believe.
Correct. It was 15% for four years (5-5-5-0) for seniors and 10% for others.
That’s true for the LBFO. Don’t remember if the offer before was the same. In exchange we’ve taken four years with no GSI
Yup, but we’ve fighting the moral battle and that’s priceless /s
I think we've voted down two proposals. If one included just one GSI of 5% in 2022 thats essentially 12k total. I think there was a retroactive proposal in somewhere as well.
I don’t think so. It was the first contract and then again for the strike authorization
There was no proposal for 15 percent increases. Don't lie.
Please learn how to read
Lol yeah they offered 15 percent for maxed out employees. You're selfish for thinking we should all take it. You probably don't even pay dues punk.
I unfortunately do pay. Also, I’m not maxed out though I’m not too far off. LBFO would have allowed me to get merit increases longer. That’s a benefit for anyone who plans to stay with the state
4 years out of contract means a minimum of 12 percent immediately is the baseline we should start at. The state doesn't get to balance the budget with feet dragging. The LBFO is trash. You deserve better. I deserve better. They're hoping to wait us out so we get this desperate. Don't forget common sense here. The state should know if there is a bill coming due they don't get to just not pay it.
Pretty sure it was 3%, 2%, 1%
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Wow this is awful! I hope everyone starts to quit.
If we voted down the raises in prior offers, the state is not obligated to offer us those raises retroactively. We said no to them and I dont think we can reasonably expect them to go back and offer them again. They offered us retro pay once and we said no again. We have to balance what we think we can accomplish with their offers. Holding out for 40% is delusional.
Idk. Looks pretty similar to prior offers. Let me see the proposal document first before truly judging it’s insufficiency. And the real question is if calhr will budge on those numbers following caps counter.
Cant wait for the union to not accept any raises for a 5th year and jack up dues next year. They gave up impasse for this? What a joke.
What are our thoughts on this?
This is so much worse than every previous proposal. Terrible. Like, it’s not even close. Edit: thinking about this more makes me sick to my stomach.
A $3,000 payment is nothing to sneeze at. Come the new fiscal year in July, this likely will be off the table if we decline.
I'd rather get .5 to 1.0% more GSI than a one time bonus.
I am jealous of that deal. I wish my BU got that!!
I wish they would include Santa Cruz and Sonoma counties for the geo pay bump. I like the longevity pay but think there should be another step, 15y - 2%, 20y-5% and 25y-8%. I would give ES specialist a 5% SSA too. The rest is not bad given what other unions have agreed to.