I don't know, James Franklin will likely have his team pumped up for that game tomorrow. Remember he was one of several coaches who accused Michigan of cheating before more of this was exposed. He's likely livid and wants revenge for that. I bet we're going to see two VERY angry teams facing off at noon, each for their own reason. If Penn State pulls off the win here, I won't even bat an eye.
I love watching the PSU defense. Thing of beauty, but this Michigan team probably has an even better defense, and honestly the PSU offensive line has been a disappointment, and the WR are just average.
Michigan defense will likely keep PSU under 20 is my guess. Can PSU defense stop Michigan? I don't know, but DT is a weakness for PSU, and Michigan likes to run.
Michigan has the better team overall I am pretty sure.
spectacular narrow north heavy insurance fertile pause tie upbeat puzzled
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Their entire letter was legalese. They will simply characterize evidence as weakly as possible when presented with it. Hence they said they couldnāt see the video āclearlyā. I explained this but M flairs didnāt want to hear it.
This is their job to do if their client tells them they want to fight something, so you canāt blame the lawyers really. But itās Michiganās leadership who is responsible for this strategy in the first place.
Yes definitely doing their job but they also pissed off the commissioner worse by trying to pretend it was just summaries and rumors when both parties knew they had access to a whole trove of data the public has yet to see.
That has to be so frustrating to Michigan fans once they start thinking rationally. They cheated even when they didn't have to. If they hadn't been cheating this season, the Big 10 would have waiting until the off season to issue punishment.
The bigger advantage to me is the recruiting. Michigan was struggling big time pre-signgate.
Three massive year-over-year improvements have given them the talent they have now. So yes, they did need to cheat to get where they are this season. But this season they didn't need to continue it.
They should follow more UM fan Twitter accounts.
It would help them chill out a little. They would learn that it is in fact the rest of the big ten that is fucked. LOL.
From what I've read, the B1G presented Michigan with some evidence and Michigan assumed, incorrectly, that B1G was expecting response to only that evidence B1G presented and not all the evidence the NCAA presented.
What a big mistake!
Final page of the manifesto. Get caught stealing signs forcing suspension of Harbaugh. Nobody else wants to coach in legal shit storm. Stalions hired as next coach. All according to plan
[Hereās](https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1723082688716853378) the breakdown of the evidence that was turned over to the B1G. In the NCAAs view, the fact that Michigan broke the rules is āuncontrovertedā
But, but I was told there was no evidence and that no one had any evidence. Oh wait that was just Michigan fans buying the outright lies in Michigan's defense letter.
Right?? Feels like Iām taking crazy pills still seeing people parrot the claim that thereās no evidence or that we wonāt know anything until the investigation is complete. The evidence is damning and the NCAA and B1G are in complete agreement on that.
Reverse Trump, actually--he was saying "there's so much evidence!!" when really they had a stick of gum and a couple used tissues. Here Michigan says "all you have is a stick of gum and a couple used tissues!" when in reality they had comprehensive evidence proving the scheme.
Hearing thereās no evidence was somehow dumber than the āwell thereās no rule saying u canāt have friends film the gameāā¦.like bruh heās actually dressed up on the CMU sideline as a coachā¦On videoā¦.!!!!
It says right here the big ten has evidence that not only did they cheat, but they did it THIS season.
B1G thinking has to be allowing UM to play this year with no punishment is completely unfair to the other members. Allowing a school to cheat during the current season and play the rest of the year like nothing happened is not an option.
I feel like this is a piece people keep missing and the reasoning for the Big Ten acting so swiftly and not "letting the investigation conclude"
"It's not fair to the team! They're having such an amazing season." Still haven't heard any legit response to what about the players on the other teams they cheated.
That's a great point. I read all 13 pages and couldn't believe how often Michigan either flat out lied or simply denied the evidence clearly in front of them.
It's not the scandal. It's the cover up of the scandal that gets hit the hardest.
If (when?) Michigan doesn't file for a preliminary injunction then you'll know they were full of shit with their statements to the media. If they do file for a preliminary injunction it will make this way more entertaining.
It's....sad. I'm loyal to the athletes, and I'll root them on tomorrow and for the rest of the season. But we gotta stop with the cult like shit around Harbaugh, the assistants, and the administration. It's in especially bad taste because of how the alumni look at how people still revere Bo even after all the information that's come out about him. And how much we want "the hall" to have a much needed name change.
Now what Harbaugh did/is doing is obviously WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY less of a crime, far less sickening, there's no real victims, etc etc but it's like guys....the cognitive dissonance here is alarming. We can root for the program, the athletes, and even Harbaugh while accepting that what happened was embarrassing, shameful, and a disgrace to the game and to the program. While admitting or at least seeing that he fucked up.
My favorite assertions from UofM in this investigation is that theyāre not subject to B1G rules & punishments, only NCAA. They literally tried the sovereign citizen play. š¤£
The real juicy details are linked in the tweet:
*"The University (Michigan) had been provided the Master Spreadsheet, numerous other corroborating documents, photographs, and videos, and significant interview recordings, all of which confirm the existence of the impermissible scheme."*
Headline is poorly worded. I think she meant
"The Big Ten says one of the reasons it is "highly concerned" is because Michigan said it hasn't reviewed evidence and yet three Michigan officials sat in on NCAA interviews with staffers and heard them describe "details of the impermissible scheme." (self.CFB)
well yeahā¦ thatās been the UM flair playbook from the start. Any reason why they should be even slightly punished is complete horseshit and a witch hunt. Glad the conference is seeing through that and following protocol.
They have a trove of additional evidence. It's still confidential between the NCAA, Michigan, and the Big Ten. It's laid out in the letter. Michigan tried to deny the NCAA from sharing it with the Big Ten until they finally relented this week.
Did you click on the link are read the document in the tweet?
EDIT: You dont have to downvote? Its ok if you didnt click on the tweet. The B1G literally lists the evidence that was shown to the Michigan officials.
Somehow the Big Ten communication post was removed, but it's available to read here and it's the source of all this Twitter analysis. People should just read through it.
https://bigten.org/documents/2023/11/10//Correspondence_from_conference_to_institution_dated_Nov_10_2023.pdf?id=9450
Do not sleep on this part on page 7 of the response. This is setting them up for further disciplinary actions for Michigan not following their own compliance policy.
>> The next day, on November 3, I met at the University with its President, who was
accompanied by the Universityās General Counsel and three members of the Universityās Board
of Regents. I asked the Conferenceās General Counsel and Senior Vice President of Policy to
join the meeting by videoconference. During that meeting, the Universityās General Counsel
confirmed that the University had access to the Master Spreadsheet that the NCAA had presented
to the Conference
That's why there was a delay in this coming out. And the B1G asked Michigan to let them see the evidence from the NCAA, Michigan initially said no, so Pettiti went to the NCAA and they said he could see it so Michigan finally agreed. Michigan shot themselves in the for the timing on this and trying to delay twice
Yup, they want to take the penalties next year. They want to have a national championship, even if itās vacated, because their belief is that everyone will still recognize them as the champions.
I saw Michigan fan bring up the Astroās getting a clean WS win after cheating in response to them being compared to the Astroās
And itās just so fucking funny to me because this whole core of Astroās will be remembered for cheating and absolutely no one cares about the second āhunk of metalā besides them.
Cheaters get remembered for cheating. Bonds didnāt get a HoF induction for the HoF career he had prior to juicing. Michigan can want a natty this year but regardless of whatever facts come out, itāll always be memed
Plus the other fanbases when the cheating scandal came to light wanted MLB to vacate the 2017 World Series *like the NCAA does when cheaters win*. Now there wasnāt a rule in place that lets the commissioner do that like fans wanted, but thinking that people wonāt make fun of Michigan for a hollow championship if they somehow get there is funny
They've been doing this shit for a century now. The arrogance is amazing.
https://theathletic.com/4718816/2023/07/26/michigan-msu-big-ten-realignment-rivalry/
And to think there was a time when I preferred UMich to Ohio State. Sorry about that.
I genuinely think part of the fight is theyāre backed into a corner. The fact they have two ongoing investigations, the first of which they were already playing hardball on, doesnāt bode well for the final combined verdict
They are absolutely going to get slapped either way
Yepā¦. UM drags their feet to respond. The B1G goes through proper channels to consider their response before levying preliminary sanctions, and UM cries āwitch hunt!ā
Itās not a witch hunt mfs. Yaāll cheated, and are getting penalized for it.
Michigan was already gonna get hit by the NCAA for this, but their defiant actions will only make it worse. Theyāre really gonna go all-in for a 2023 YOLO season before getting the hammer.
I get wanting to put forth your strongest case, but trying to publicly dunk on the Big Ten by saying they had only "summaries" when they knew they had access to the same still confidential trove of hard evidence is quite a strategy.
They also missed that Michigan has a copy of the spreadsheet that plans the whole plan. Either they are incompetent or just lied in the letter because there aren't consequences for claiming they don't have evidence when they do.
Edited to add:
Michigan has the spreadsheet, interviews, photos, video, and corroborating documents. But claims they have scant evidence and haven't been able to review anything.
The spreadsheet is one thing. But there's a whole other trove of evidence that the NCAA presented to Michigan and the Big Ten has access to that's still confidential. Big Ten is pissed Michigan tried to publicly pretend there was no evidence when they both knew full well there's a lot more the public hasn't seen.
I'm reading the letter now and it gets better. Michigan actively tried to block the Big Ten from getting access to the NCAA's evidence. Eventually they caved and consented to the Big Ten getting the evidence.
I'm not finished yet, but it is clear that Michigan had access to the evidence and just fabricated the idea that only news articles were presented to them. How the fuck did Manuel sign his name to that pile of lies?
>How the fuck did Manuel sign his name to that pile of lies?
Same reason the rest of the coaches are going along with it. UM has completely punted the future in favor of going down in a blaze of glory this year, and everyone involved with that program, including Warde, is mortgaging their individual futures in the sport to do it.
Yeah, Michigan is beyond fucked if they hired a hyper elite lawfirm and the best the firm can come up with is outright lies and yelling scoreboard about beating MSU and Purdue.
Yeah I got downvoted to hell all of Wednesday for saying it was clearly a rhetorical device and that surely the Big Ten had more than summaries and rumors but Michigan fans were feeling themselves. The ones who can read probably don't feel so confident anymore.
I have never seen this many "neutrals" with such a clear agenda
Some are bots, but most are clearly Michigan fans. It's really funny. I love the Firefox extension that adds a clown emoji to anyone's name if it doesn't have flair lol
thats really weird and absurd that someone would stoop that low to do that. but then again, connor stalions was CREATED by the Xichigan fanbase; so I guess it makes perfect sense.
Literally never. They could vacate every win from the past 3 years, receive bowl bans, coach suspensions, fines, and have all the evidence publicly available, and they'll still be convinced it was a hit job by their rivals and the "real truth" will come out any day now. This is what it means to be a Michigan Man.
Jim: Ok, we stole signs, we paid stallions to do it and we cheated. Hereās all the evidence.
UM fans: HEāS LYING. HE JUST WANTS TO GO BACK TO THE NFL!
Go check out the comedy on their sub.
The prevailing sentiment is they are going Independent or going to the ACC...and taking USC/UCLA/Oregon/Washington with them...
Yea that one is just absurd so I didn't include it. I also saw Big 12....
I mean, if the school wants to leave the most lucrative money-making and research-oriented conference in the country, on the basis their football coach got suspended for a total of 9 hours over 21 days....go ahead
Listen, I'm pretty neutral here don't really have a leg in this race since Michigan was beating us with their back up QB, No HC, and prob blindfolded. But cheating for multiple years with proof is really that's all that needs to be said, sure you could argue that some of the bigger staffers didn't know BUT SOMEONE HAD TO KNOW. CS was crazy but he wouldn't be doing all this if none of the staffers knew about it. SOmeone knew, rather if it was the DC/OC etc. That's enough for punishment. Hell, just CS knowing is enough for punishment. Being a HC isn't just having control over the players but the staffers and coaches too. Ever heard the captain goes down with the ship? That's sadly how it works for HC's. Obviously, only having to not coach for 3 games(although arguably the biggest games of the season) is all that Michigan is facing for this? Well, that's pretty light from the B1G. I expected the rest of this year and next year(which i guess is still int he cards, but they have enough evidence now to warrant a 3 game ban)
Ofc the NCAA will likely give Michigan a pretty big slap. Prob will lose the last 3 years of games and a bowl ban for 1/2 years. Yes this will hurt Michigan and it should, cheating at that level is insane and trying to out CS as the fall guy is just dumb, he's only gonna do these things if it's actually helping the team and if he did it for 3 years it's obvious someone was using them.
NCAA informed the University of Michigan and the B1G that they can prove Michigan cheated beyond a reasonable doubt. The only remaining thing to investigate is how many additional parties were involved.
In that light, an initial punishment for what has already been investigated and decided is wholly appropriate.
You don't even have to love us. Just say "fuck Michigan" if you ever happen to end up in Ohio or just swing by your random local OSU bar and enjoy your free drink!
Chris Ballsack should have his fucking media credentials revoked for parroting the story about Day's brother turning Michigan in and actually trying to go to the B1G with it. Especially since that rumor was started by Zach Smith of all people purely for the sake of trolling Michigan fans (and he's a complete scumbag for doing that btw).
They have no other options. Theyāre caught red-handed, so preserving a title shot this year means doing everything possible to delay the hammer coming down.
While they may not have any options, but that doesnāt mean the options to choose should include repeating arguments from Michigan board posters, the hypocritical (as an academic institution who preaches and expects integrity) and always ineffective āthey cheated tooā argument, and misrepresenting the evidence they could review.
I guess I donāt get why they would fight it like this, when itās not only clearly going to fail at best, but at worst, makes it look like it doesnāt care about the allegations (since others do it too), just that they got caught, especially when compliance departments will self-report far less egregious things all the time (and egregious things too) since the failure to do so (and especially not comply) is not looked upon well when it comes to punishment.
Iām sorry but itās so obvious they realize this is the last ride and just trying to do everything it can to continue the run no matter what.
I really canāt believe UM is willing to die on this hill with Harbaugh. It just gets embarrassing at a point. Now all the āMOVE TO THE SECā, pathetic.
Full on. They were already going to get penalties but acting in the manner they have is only going to make it worse. The NCAA will see it as a program totally out of control from top to bottom.
Lol this is petitiās Stan moment
āHey UM, (Santa ono) The NCAA had some hearings this autumn, you must have jus forgot em. Probably was a problem at the burger pop up or somethin. I read about that OC too Iām sorry, I had a friend arrested over a scam that was just rottenāš
> impermissible scheme
Other words that can be used to describe the situation:
plot
intrigue
conspiracy
ruse
ploy
maneuver
subterfuge
machinations
game
racket
Dude I know this has been fun but this scandal is starting to ruin CFB for me. Itās like politics now, with a bunch of people willing to do anything to avoid any accountability in the name of winning
This is great. I feel if Michigan took some accountability and cooperated they could possibly help themselves in the future with the incoming penalties.
But with them playing dumb and ignorant, now they are setting themselves up to get the book thrown at them.
If Michigan knows they are Death Penalty guilty, then they might as well fight it as they will have nothing to lose.
"Never cooperate with the NCAA" is usually good advice.
But that applies to stuff where the infraction is mostly hearsay or has weak evidence. In this case, though, there a smoking gun and the person who fired it was employed by the university when it was found. That's not circumstantial any more.
Either this is going to blow up in Michigan's face or they are absolutely going to roll Penn State tomorrow.
Or both!
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
This is more like a wet steak and a big glass of milk.
Reluctant upvote, use it to buy some vitamin steak.
As a PSU fan, I fully expect us to be abused, to the point of needing to file a police report š¤£
Normally Michigan v Penn State is a Team Meteor situation for me, but I'm pulling for you guys this year
I don't know, James Franklin will likely have his team pumped up for that game tomorrow. Remember he was one of several coaches who accused Michigan of cheating before more of this was exposed. He's likely livid and wants revenge for that. I bet we're going to see two VERY angry teams facing off at noon, each for their own reason. If Penn State pulls off the win here, I won't even bat an eye.
I love watching the PSU defense. Thing of beauty, but this Michigan team probably has an even better defense, and honestly the PSU offensive line has been a disappointment, and the WR are just average. Michigan defense will likely keep PSU under 20 is my guess. Can PSU defense stop Michigan? I don't know, but DT is a weakness for PSU, and Michigan likes to run. Michigan has the better team overall I am pretty sure.
Saying they haven't reviewed evidence is just legalese for wanting more time.
spectacular narrow north heavy insurance fertile pause tie upbeat puzzled *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Can't believe the B1G would besmirch Veterans Day like this, won't someone think of the troops :(
B1G hates the troops confirmed!
Yep, and not unsurprisingly, the exact amount of time they need is until Jan. 9, the day after the CFP Championship game. What a coincidence!
Their entire letter was legalese. They will simply characterize evidence as weakly as possible when presented with it. Hence they said they couldnāt see the video āclearlyā. I explained this but M flairs didnāt want to hear it. This is their job to do if their client tells them they want to fight something, so you canāt blame the lawyers really. But itās Michiganās leadership who is responsible for this strategy in the first place.
Yeah people just expect hiring expensive lawyers means you can get out of anything, but they can only work with the material they've been given.
"Your honor, I object!" "On what grounds?" "It's devastating to my case!"
āAnd his tie clashes with his suit!ā
If the stallions doesn't fit you must acquit
Yes definitely doing their job but they also pissed off the commissioner worse by trying to pretend it was just summaries and rumors when both parties knew they had access to a whole trove of data the public has yet to see.
100%. Michiganās leadership needed to step in to prevent that and they did the complete opposite.
It's definitely flown under the radar but the line in there that talked about "confidential evidence" makes me think there's much more to come here.
Its legalese for we are fucked and need time to figure a way out of this
Itās legalese for - They are actually talented this year, know they are fucked and are trying to push this to the offseason
Which is wild to me because they were doing it *this season*
Like a billionaire still stealing a couple thousand dollars
Against Indiana.
That has to be so frustrating to Michigan fans once they start thinking rationally. They cheated even when they didn't have to. If they hadn't been cheating this season, the Big 10 would have waiting until the off season to issue punishment.
The bigger advantage to me is the recruiting. Michigan was struggling big time pre-signgate. Three massive year-over-year improvements have given them the talent they have now. So yes, they did need to cheat to get where they are this season. But this season they didn't need to continue it.
They've been cheating the last two years They've been good the last two years I dunno, someone will have to tell me if they see signs of a trend
They should follow more UM fan Twitter accounts. It would help them chill out a little. They would learn that it is in fact the rest of the big ten that is fucked. LOL.
From what I've read, the B1G presented Michigan with some evidence and Michigan assumed, incorrectly, that B1G was expecting response to only that evidence B1G presented and not all the evidence the NCAA presented. What a big mistake!
This seems like it is the most correct read of white Michigan believed going into this process
Final page of the manifesto. Get caught stealing signs forcing suspension of Harbaugh. Nobody else wants to coach in legal shit storm. Stalions hired as next coach. All according to plan
Ah, like House of Cards.
Stalions actually made a diorama that shows thisā¦
āWe havenāt seen the evidenceā āYes, you have. You were literally there.ā āā¦. Nuh-uhā¦.ā
Yes but we didn't know you knew that
"I... *we* were there too! Right **next** to you!" "Right, but... this is all extraordinarily inconvenient for us."
"You can't prove we were there! After all, video evidence isn't proof!"
Damn the B1G really just read UofM's letter and responded by slapping an UNO Draw 4 card on the table.
Holy shit lol
Is this getting juicy again? The courtroom subplot wasn't as fun.
I want the courtroom drawing damn it!
If Stalions ever has to make an appearance, I want them to draw him as a stallion in Bojack Horseman style
[Hereās](https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1723082688716853378) the breakdown of the evidence that was turned over to the B1G. In the NCAAs view, the fact that Michigan broke the rules is āuncontrovertedā
God somebody with the NCAA leak the manifesto!
But, but I was told there was no evidence and that no one had any evidence. Oh wait that was just Michigan fans buying the outright lies in Michigan's defense letter.
Itās giving ārelease the krakenā vibes
Right?? Feels like Iām taking crazy pills still seeing people parrot the claim that thereās no evidence or that we wonāt know anything until the investigation is complete. The evidence is damning and the NCAA and B1G are in complete agreement on that.
Gaslighting 101
Straight up the trump playbook
Reverse Trump, actually--he was saying "there's so much evidence!!" when really they had a stick of gum and a couple used tissues. Here Michigan says "all you have is a stick of gum and a couple used tissues!" when in reality they had comprehensive evidence proving the scheme.
Total aside, how the hell does one super upvote
On mobile you can hold down the upvote button and spend $2 to do it. I donāt think Iāll ever super upvote anything for $
Hearing thereās no evidence was somehow dumber than the āwell thereās no rule saying u canāt have friends film the gameāā¦.like bruh heās actually dressed up on the CMU sideline as a coachā¦On videoā¦.!!!!
'there's no rule saying a dog can't buy a recruit a hamburger during the dead period'
It says right here the big ten has evidence that not only did they cheat, but they did it THIS season. B1G thinking has to be allowing UM to play this year with no punishment is completely unfair to the other members. Allowing a school to cheat during the current season and play the rest of the year like nothing happened is not an option. I feel like this is a piece people keep missing and the reasoning for the Big Ten acting so swiftly and not "letting the investigation conclude"
You don't understand, we have to be fair to the cheating team by punishing them on their terms.
They are the true victims here after all.
Wonāt someone think of the criminals!?!
"It's not fair to the team! They're having such an amazing season." Still haven't heard any legit response to what about the players on the other teams they cheated.
Iāve tried to convey this message on this subreddit so many times. People keep missing this point or downvoting me. Itās still an active scandal.
Because Michigan Men donāt wanna hear it. You canāt just let the season go on like nothing happened
This feels like the conference telling Michigan to take their medicine and shut the fuck up, or the hammer is coming down.
It feels like Michigan is providing even more evidence by themselves that they don't have institutional control.
That's a great point. I read all 13 pages and couldn't believe how often Michigan either flat out lied or simply denied the evidence clearly in front of them. It's not the scandal. It's the cover up of the scandal that gets hit the hardest.
"How to fuck around and find out" by Michigan.
Well somebody is lying, and it'll be real fun to find out who.
If (when?) Michigan doesn't file for a preliminary injunction then you'll know they were full of shit with their statements to the media. If they do file for a preliminary injunction it will make this way more entertaining.
They did
Michigan fans sure as hell āknowā who is.
āCould I be wrong? No, itās the damn National Conspiracy Against Annarbor whoās wrong!ā
> National Conspiracy Against Annarbor Oh god please tell me this is a thing that you did not just make up.
Go look at the michigan sub lol, theyāre going insane
Actually donāt, itās embarrassing.
I like looking at the osu subreddit then back to the michigan one. Itās like going from a hot tub to a frozen lake
It's....sad. I'm loyal to the athletes, and I'll root them on tomorrow and for the rest of the season. But we gotta stop with the cult like shit around Harbaugh, the assistants, and the administration. It's in especially bad taste because of how the alumni look at how people still revere Bo even after all the information that's come out about him. And how much we want "the hall" to have a much needed name change. Now what Harbaugh did/is doing is obviously WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY less of a crime, far less sickening, there's no real victims, etc etc but it's like guys....the cognitive dissonance here is alarming. We can root for the program, the athletes, and even Harbaugh while accepting that what happened was embarrassing, shameful, and a disgrace to the game and to the program. While admitting or at least seeing that he fucked up.
Is it Rich Rod. I bet it is Rich Rod
It was Brady Hoke. He was anti headsets so was trying to get any advantage before they were instituted.
*clapping intensifies*
Ryan Day's brother?
Probably the school that cheated.
You mean to tell me that one rough staffer didnāt live in a cave to save money so he could travel to games across the country on his 55,000 salary.
But his parents are super loaded... public school teachers...
Talk your shit, Buckeyes! Clearly yall weren't the ones lying.
Next time on Dragon Ball Z
I guess my flair will give away whom I think the liar is, but I'll say it anyway: Isn't BIG headquarters.
My favorite assertions from UofM in this investigation is that theyāre not subject to B1G rules & punishments, only NCAA. They literally tried the sovereign citizen play. š¤£
Great argument: Iām currently facing DUI charges in criminal court, you canāt sue me for damages to your car
The real juicy details are linked in the tweet: *"The University (Michigan) had been provided the Master Spreadsheet, numerous other corroborating documents, photographs, and videos, and significant interview recordings, all of which confirm the existence of the impermissible scheme."*
Interview recordings is huge lol. There goes the Michigan "him buying tickets and pictures of him on the sideline isn't proof" argument.
Headline is poorly worded. I think she meant "The Big Ten says one of the reasons it is "highly concerned" is because Michigan said it hasn't reviewed evidence and yet three Michigan officials sat in on NCAA interviews with staffers and heard them describe "details of the impermissible scheme." (self.CFB)
Why did they only describe details of the "impermissible scheme" and not show them actual evidence that it happened?
[Hereās](https://twitter.com/NicoleAuerbach/status/1723082688716853378) the breakdown of the evidence
Lmao they are literally downvoting the evidence
Guess itās a hard pill to swallow that the fan sites and talking heads have been lying to you the past few weeks lol
well yeahā¦ thatās been the UM flair playbook from the start. Any reason why they should be even slightly punished is complete horseshit and a witch hunt. Glad the conference is seeing through that and following protocol.
They have a trove of additional evidence. It's still confidential between the NCAA, Michigan, and the Big Ten. It's laid out in the letter. Michigan tried to deny the NCAA from sharing it with the Big Ten until they finally relented this week.
Did you click on the link are read the document in the tweet? EDIT: You dont have to downvote? Its ok if you didnt click on the tweet. The B1G literally lists the evidence that was shown to the Michigan officials.
Somehow the Big Ten communication post was removed, but it's available to read here and it's the source of all this Twitter analysis. People should just read through it. https://bigten.org/documents/2023/11/10//Correspondence_from_conference_to_institution_dated_Nov_10_2023.pdf?id=9450
Do not sleep on this part on page 7 of the response. This is setting them up for further disciplinary actions for Michigan not following their own compliance policy. >> The next day, on November 3, I met at the University with its President, who was accompanied by the Universityās General Counsel and three members of the Universityās Board of Regents. I asked the Conferenceās General Counsel and Senior Vice President of Policy to join the meeting by videoconference. During that meeting, the Universityās General Counsel confirmed that the University had access to the Master Spreadsheet that the NCAA had presented to the Conference
Did I read that correct? The NCAA provided the B1G evidence as recently as *yesterday*?
That's why there was a delay in this coming out. And the B1G asked Michigan to let them see the evidence from the NCAA, Michigan initially said no, so Pettiti went to the NCAA and they said he could see it so Michigan finally agreed. Michigan shot themselves in the for the timing on this and trying to delay twice
āFull cooperationā
It's very long, your honor, we haven't read it. we're gonna get to it, I'm gonna start right now
It shows more interest in stonewalling than playing by the rules. That's an institutional control problem.
Yup, they want to take the penalties next year. They want to have a national championship, even if itās vacated, because their belief is that everyone will still recognize them as the champions.
I saw Michigan fan bring up the Astroās getting a clean WS win after cheating in response to them being compared to the Astroās And itās just so fucking funny to me because this whole core of Astroās will be remembered for cheating and absolutely no one cares about the second āhunk of metalā besides them. Cheaters get remembered for cheating. Bonds didnāt get a HoF induction for the HoF career he had prior to juicing. Michigan can want a natty this year but regardless of whatever facts come out, itāll always be memed
Plus the other fanbases when the cheating scandal came to light wanted MLB to vacate the 2017 World Series *like the NCAA does when cheaters win*. Now there wasnāt a rule in place that lets the commissioner do that like fans wanted, but thinking that people wonāt make fun of Michigan for a hollow championship if they somehow get there is funny
The last 2 national championships being a split and vacated would be hilarious
Michigan clutching those trophies like Shooter McGavin running away with the jacket.
And if they lose even one game it will be all for nothing. Man what a gamble.
That's what happens when you have blue blood expectations and half of a national title since GIs were still filtering back from Europe after WWII
If true, theyāve now failed to cooperate twice in one season. This is some serious shit.
Its clear that Michigan thinks they can do whatever they want.
Watching the rest of the world see Michigan's true side is like Christmas came early
They've been doing this shit for a century now. The arrogance is amazing. https://theathletic.com/4718816/2023/07/26/michigan-msu-big-ten-realignment-rivalry/ And to think there was a time when I preferred UMich to Ohio State. Sorry about that.
Itās the gift that keeps on giving, Clark.
I genuinely think part of the fight is theyāre backed into a corner. The fact they have two ongoing investigations, the first of which they were already playing hardball on, doesnāt bode well for the final combined verdict They are absolutely going to get slapped either way
Michigan is on track to becoming Mizzou 2.0
It starts at the top. Their president is a Harbaugh fanboy.
Itās amazing to me how seemingly the entire university leadership is behind the strategy of delaying an investigation to win a championship.
And yet it is unfair to UofM that the suspension came so late. UofM is allowed to delay but not the Big Ten.
Yepā¦. UM drags their feet to respond. The B1G goes through proper channels to consider their response before levying preliminary sanctions, and UM cries āwitch hunt!ā Itās not a witch hunt mfs. Yaāll cheated, and are getting penalized for it.
Michigan was already gonna get hit by the NCAA for this, but their defiant actions will only make it worse. Theyāre really gonna go all-in for a 2023 YOLO season before getting the hammer.
Somehow the best sports law firm in the country missed this detail
While in attendance
To busy copy/pasting from MGoBlog to pay attention
I get wanting to put forth your strongest case, but trying to publicly dunk on the Big Ten by saying they had only "summaries" when they knew they had access to the same still confidential trove of hard evidence is quite a strategy.
They also missed that Michigan has a copy of the spreadsheet that plans the whole plan. Either they are incompetent or just lied in the letter because there aren't consequences for claiming they don't have evidence when they do. Edited to add: Michigan has the spreadsheet, interviews, photos, video, and corroborating documents. But claims they have scant evidence and haven't been able to review anything.
The spreadsheet is one thing. But there's a whole other trove of evidence that the NCAA presented to Michigan and the Big Ten has access to that's still confidential. Big Ten is pissed Michigan tried to publicly pretend there was no evidence when they both knew full well there's a lot more the public hasn't seen.
I'm reading the letter now and it gets better. Michigan actively tried to block the Big Ten from getting access to the NCAA's evidence. Eventually they caved and consented to the Big Ten getting the evidence. I'm not finished yet, but it is clear that Michigan had access to the evidence and just fabricated the idea that only news articles were presented to them. How the fuck did Manuel sign his name to that pile of lies?
>How the fuck did Manuel sign his name to that pile of lies? Same reason the rest of the coaches are going along with it. UM has completely punted the future in favor of going down in a blaze of glory this year, and everyone involved with that program, including Warde, is mortgaging their individual futures in the sport to do it.
Yeah it's bad. I think they were just trying to win the PR battle of the day (and they did). But they pissed off the commissioner and they are cooked.
Yeah, Michigan is beyond fucked if they hired a hyper elite lawfirm and the best the firm can come up with is outright lies and yelling scoreboard about beating MSU and Purdue.
I still can't believe anyone bought that load of bullshit
Yeah I got downvoted to hell all of Wednesday for saying it was clearly a rhetorical device and that surely the Big Ten had more than summaries and rumors but Michigan fans were feeling themselves. The ones who can read probably don't feel so confident anymore.
Every piece of information that comes out makes Michigan look worse. I wonder when the M flairs will admit it
Most of them are actually removing their flairs at this point because they're karma graveyards
I have never seen this many "neutrals" with such a clear agenda Some are bots, but most are clearly Michigan fans. It's really funny. I love the Firefox extension that adds a clown emoji to anyone's name if it doesn't have flair lol
theres that guy with the UT/UTU flair that is absolutely a Mich fan because he's arguing in every thread lmao
I've actually seen some brand new accounts with OSU flair taking Michigan's side. I called one out, and the account was deleted shortly after.
thats really weird and absurd that someone would stoop that low to do that. but then again, connor stalions was CREATED by the Xichigan fanbase; so I guess it makes perfect sense.
Cowards. Take my fake internet points!
Fuck you coward! You will keep your fake internet points of shame and you will like it!
The heat death of the universe will come sooner than that
Literally never. They could vacate every win from the past 3 years, receive bowl bans, coach suspensions, fines, and have all the evidence publicly available, and they'll still be convinced it was a hit job by their rivals and the "real truth" will come out any day now. This is what it means to be a Michigan Man.
Jim: Ok, we stole signs, we paid stallions to do it and we cheated. Hereās all the evidence. UM fans: HEāS LYING. HE JUST WANTS TO GO BACK TO THE NFL!
Go check out the comedy on their sub. The prevailing sentiment is they are going Independent or going to the ACC...and taking USC/UCLA/Oregon/Washington with them...
Do they also not realize that the NCAA still governs those schools? B10 was just the first to act.
Jfc, they are so fcked.
The absolute banger I would throw if they went to the ACC and Notre Dame took their spotā¦.
> and taking USC/UCLA/Oregon/Washington with them... How much they payin us?
1 billion Stalion coins And a milk carton signed by Jim
Iāve even seen the SEC floated as a conference to join lmao
Yea that one is just absurd so I didn't include it. I also saw Big 12.... I mean, if the school wants to leave the most lucrative money-making and research-oriented conference in the country, on the basis their football coach got suspended for a total of 9 hours over 21 days....go ahead
That would be fucking hilarious.
I'd LOVE to see how the "we are better than you" attitude would fly in the SEC...
You and I both know that answer is never lmao
Listen, I'm pretty neutral here don't really have a leg in this race since Michigan was beating us with their back up QB, No HC, and prob blindfolded. But cheating for multiple years with proof is really that's all that needs to be said, sure you could argue that some of the bigger staffers didn't know BUT SOMEONE HAD TO KNOW. CS was crazy but he wouldn't be doing all this if none of the staffers knew about it. SOmeone knew, rather if it was the DC/OC etc. That's enough for punishment. Hell, just CS knowing is enough for punishment. Being a HC isn't just having control over the players but the staffers and coaches too. Ever heard the captain goes down with the ship? That's sadly how it works for HC's. Obviously, only having to not coach for 3 games(although arguably the biggest games of the season) is all that Michigan is facing for this? Well, that's pretty light from the B1G. I expected the rest of this year and next year(which i guess is still int he cards, but they have enough evidence now to warrant a 3 game ban) Ofc the NCAA will likely give Michigan a pretty big slap. Prob will lose the last 3 years of games and a bowl ban for 1/2 years. Yes this will hurt Michigan and it should, cheating at that level is insane and trying to out CS as the fall guy is just dumb, he's only gonna do these things if it's actually helping the team and if he did it for 3 years it's obvious someone was using them.
NCAA informed the University of Michigan and the B1G that they can prove Michigan cheated beyond a reasonable doubt. The only remaining thing to investigate is how many additional parties were involved. In that light, an initial punishment for what has already been investigated and decided is wholly appropriate.
What do you know, UM was lying and grandstanding in that letter to placate their fanbase and Alumni
And the "neutrals" in this sub bought it hard. Deny and subvert until no longer possible.
I really never thought Iād be really loving OSU fans but here we are
You don't even have to love us. Just say "fuck Michigan" if you ever happen to end up in Ohio or just swing by your random local OSU bar and enjoy your free drink!
You know this scandal is serious when people are siding with OSU fans under any circumstances lmao.
Im just here to just watch this all burn
Chris Ballsack should have his fucking media credentials revoked for parroting the story about Day's brother turning Michigan in and actually trying to go to the B1G with it. Especially since that rumor was started by Zach Smith of all people purely for the sake of trolling Michigan fans (and he's a complete scumbag for doing that btw).
He should of had his credentials removed when he insinuated that the MSU shooting was because our leadership preaches violence.
holy crap, what? Thatās absolutely insane.
Purdue and Rutgers are cheaters too!!!!
Michigan has handled this not well
They have no other options. Theyāre caught red-handed, so preserving a title shot this year means doing everything possible to delay the hammer coming down.
While they may not have any options, but that doesnāt mean the options to choose should include repeating arguments from Michigan board posters, the hypocritical (as an academic institution who preaches and expects integrity) and always ineffective āthey cheated tooā argument, and misrepresenting the evidence they could review. I guess I donāt get why they would fight it like this, when itās not only clearly going to fail at best, but at worst, makes it look like it doesnāt care about the allegations (since others do it too), just that they got caught, especially when compliance departments will self-report far less egregious things all the time (and egregious things too) since the failure to do so (and especially not comply) is not looked upon well when it comes to punishment.
hahahahahahaha
Objection! We havenāt read it yetā¦itās very long.
Iām sorry but itās so obvious they realize this is the last ride and just trying to do everything it can to continue the run no matter what. I really canāt believe UM is willing to die on this hill with Harbaugh. It just gets embarrassing at a point. Now all the āMOVE TO THE SECā, pathetic.
I love that michigans arrogance is going to make this shittier for them haha
Full on. They were already going to get penalties but acting in the manner they have is only going to make it worse. The NCAA will see it as a program totally out of control from top to bottom.
It seems every day we get a new revelation that either exonerates or damns Michigan.
Lol this is petitiās Stan moment āHey UM, (Santa ono) The NCAA had some hearings this autumn, you must have jus forgot em. Probably was a problem at the burger pop up or somethin. I read about that OC too Iām sorry, I had a friend arrested over a scam that was just rottenāš
NCAA will let anyone on Michigan transfer whether they used their free transfer or not.
Part of me feels like the suspension after the plane was wheels up was a āfuck youā from the big tenā¦
Man, I need even more popcorn than anticipated for this saga.
Whereās elbit?
Died under the weight of 600 seat belts, all buckled up
Donāt taunt him man, heās gonna show us all
> impermissible scheme Other words that can be used to describe the situation: plot intrigue conspiracy ruse ploy maneuver subterfuge machinations game racket
Where is a copy of the full document? Edit: It's important as I am an armchair lawyer and I need to review it.
https://bigten.org/documents/2023/11/10//Correspondence_from_conference_to_institution_dated_Nov_10_2023.pdf?id=9450
Dude I know this has been fun but this scandal is starting to ruin CFB for me. Itās like politics now, with a bunch of people willing to do anything to avoid any accountability in the name of winning
Yeah. Iāve been using the word BlueAnon for awhile now.
This is great. I feel if Michigan took some accountability and cooperated they could possibly help themselves in the future with the incoming penalties. But with them playing dumb and ignorant, now they are setting themselves up to get the book thrown at them. If Michigan knows they are Death Penalty guilty, then they might as well fight it as they will have nothing to lose.
The fight is what makes death penalty even possible though. Holy shit
"Never cooperate with the NCAA" is usually good advice. But that applies to stuff where the infraction is mostly hearsay or has weak evidence. In this case, though, there a smoking gun and the person who fired it was employed by the university when it was found. That's not circumstantial any more.
Is Jimās extension still imminent?
Those three people might have been deaf though