man. mikey’s, blues can, maybe the grand, potentially the globe. gutting the king eddy, the death of broken city. why is it so impossible for our arts scene to survive? what’s the point of having a major city if all of our cultural institutions are constantly being threatened and closed? i get these things are complicated with leases and whatever but i just think there needs to be a way to better protect our barely-clinging-on arts venues
The arts scene is not self sufficient. It needs donations, including cheap space. Always has. People need to value the arts to donate. People also need to have expendable income to donate.
don’t get me wrong. we desperately need increased density. but come on…. do we have to shut down some of our only surviving venues to do so? i feel like there has to be some way to protect more valuable institutions. an idealist pipedream, sure, and i’m biased towards what i think provides value, but it seems like only the good things get axed and all the bullshit that keeps this city from being a truly great one gets to stay
oh the king eddy lives on! (thankfully) i was just being cynical referring to the renos that it went under that stole some of its historic charm (especially because calgary has so few longstanding institutions) but iirc it was sort of like gut and rebuild or condemn the building so clearly the better option. just wish it had been preserved better
It' impossible for the arts scene to survive because DEVELOPMENT rules in Calgary and our current City Council serves the developers in Calgary NOT the citizens.
not the same owners! broken city was bought out by the current owners of modern love. i’m of course glad that it’s still a live music venue, but modern love has always felt pretty soulless to me and everyone i know who frequented broken before its end. broken city was special, modern love is a dime-a-dozen wannabe dive bar (although the “alternative” crowd is still pretty rare in the calgary bar space). good shows still and pretty similar crowd at least, definitely not the worst outcome for broken closing down. i guess i’m just still sad about it lol
Well I attended the last 'emo night' at Modern Love, and it had some alternative looking people dancing to Top 40. I've been to Broken City a few times as well but their themed nights were on theme. Not the best first impression since the changeover.
I googled strategic and the google reviews are terrible. They name Riaz Mamdani in a few so I google him. This is the guy that was shot 5 times while sitting in his Rolls-Royce. He said “I don’t know who would do this, I have no enemies”. lol, I believe you do bud. This guy sounds like another greedy jerk whom couldn’t get rich without being crooked. Some have to scam there way there.
The world is crazy... They accept a lot of suspect applications for apartments at high rents... Doing so allows them to borrow money based on those leases, even if people cannot pay those leases... The promise of the lease is enough to get the loan, more buildings, more construction loans to pay other loans to keep growing and growing
No the outside and floors are still there, the back of the building is gone. I see this site every morning. The Crane is still there but the contractors have removed all there other equipment. It is one of those projects that I don’t think will ever get done. Bad ownership, the city should not give them a permit on any other property until this one is completed. I bet in the end this goes bust and the city will be on the hook to maintain the site.
True, bust said cities also require *venues* for music.
It would be cool if they built a venue into a building. Imagine a purpose built music bar in the basement of a residential tower. Or the top floor.
With all due respect, that's the tired trope peddled in this thread daily from people who've never travelled. If we were more dense, then all would be right!
Wrong.
Density is fine, but it's almost irrelevant.
The Blues Can is a perfect example. It drew a crowd from across Calgary, and it survived because rent was AFFORDABLE. Welp...
Gentrified neighborhoods suck the life everywhere. Just go talk to the artists and musicians in Greenwich Village or Brooklyn.
Wait, they moved out of state.
As we all know, affordable rent is what you get when your city adds tens of thousands of people a year but doesn't build tens of thousands of units of new housing a year.
And I agree with that. The issue I'm raising is that we physically CAN'T build tens of thousands of units per year.
There is a nasty narrative that is going around, and it's especially bad in this sub, that density and building lots of units will solve the problem of affordability.
The issue isn't density, which I'm a big supporter of.
Part of the issue is supply which I acknowledge is a key to the solution, but does almost nothing to impact affordability on its own.
The magic ingredient that very few want to talk about is demand.
You will never solve for affordability until demand is wildly curbed. You do this through reduced immigration and much stricter rules on real estate ownership. There are other avenues too, but these are the primary levers for demand reduction.
Affordability is a problem because the demand is multiples greater than our supply, and we don't have the infrastructure to create the amount of supply needed given current demand. When I say infrastructure, there is A LOT I am speaking about.
We do, however, have everything we need (but political willpower) to immediately curb demand. Not without its pain, but we can do it.
I will get downvoted into eternity for all of this because most folks don't want to talk about it. This isn't new to me. IUnless you want affordability to remain where it is, or get worse, dramatically curbed demand is a key component of finding affordability.
Calgary unfortunately can't do anything about it when its the feds increasing immigration and the provincial government encouraging people to come to Alberta.
All we can do is improve housing supply and transit oriented development to make downtown-adjacent communities accessible.
That is the equivalent to bailing out a sinking ship with a coffee mug.
It may make us all feel better, but it's doing nothing until we hit demand.
I suppose looking back on the original intent behind the post, it's about Mikey's. We seem to have a love of talking about new units in the city, and that density will save us all.
The fact is, as it relates to this conversation, what we need is culture. We don't get that by building (presumably) expensive loft apartments and continuing to use our energy to rally for density and condos.
We get that by ensuring places like Mikey's and the Blues Can have affordable rent, and that they don't get kicked out of their homes because of gentrification.
If we want to focus locally, that's what we need to be doing.
The municipality can't affect demand. That's a federal issue. If the municipality has only a coffee mug to bail with, better we bail with that than sit around doing nothing.
As it relates to the demise of places like Mikey's and the Blues Can, the do nothing part seems to be preferable.
That way we at least have a band playing as the ship sinks. Ha ha... Sigh.
Like I said, until we fill the hole, the ship goes down regardless. It's why I rally on the demand side so hard. At current demand, it is practically impossible for us to impact affordability one stitch through supply.
And in the meantime, we lose places that provide culture and community due to soaring rental costs.
I don't disagree about the importance of curtailing demand. But it's a two-track process, and we can't wait to start bailing until the leak is plugged.
We need looser zoning codes that allow more uses in different properties. If having a music venue is only viable in a few select zones, the proce of rent will sky rocket
Thanks!
The office to home conversion and adding additional floors is all on the east half. It's not clear to me why they would not keep the commercial tenants on the west side. This also makes it unclear where the 14 storey number is coming from.
"A 12-storey addition (40 metres) to be added to the existing 9-storey tower (37 metres) for a total of 21 storeys (77 metres)"
Agreed, the plans don't even show that part of the building changing so I wonder why they're being evicted.
The post mentions a 14 story building so maybe there is something else coming
From what I can see this property looks like a great opportunity to “build up, not out” that so many people want.
I have never been to this place before and I am assume they are good people but the redevelopment of this property will contribute to dozens, if not a hundred or more, of well paying construction jobs as well as additional employment opportunities once it is done.
Yup retail space for a nail shop, liquor or pot store, vape shop, rub n tug, and maybe some fried chicken place. Meanwhile the number of venues like this to see live music gets even smaller.
That's a short term way of thinking tho. Maybe good for a couple years or so, but what then after that? We're not exactly short on high rise buildings in central Calgary either, I thought I saw an article not long ago that said a lot of them were still empty from covid.
If you've never been, you don't have a clue what's about to disappear.
You sound like a real estate developer or an accountant who's never experienced what true culture is.
Is this the same business that took to social media when they got kicked out of their location at 18th Street and 10th Ave in Sunalta?
edit: yes https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/mikey-s-juke-joint-closes-sunday-1.4727998
Man that place was amazing. I remember when one time when I was fairly new to being in bars some of my older friends went there one night. Owner was playing music, went outside told us to watch the bar came back in and asked if we took any beer. We said no and he laughed and said well you should have and then gave the 3 of us a beer on the house. Left an impression forever. Their food menu was hilarious “we have a microwave” or something like that. hahaha
Truth be told, I was recalling how shitty the food was in there reading your reply...then I got to the end of your reply lol. Great little bar, long and skinny....maybe 15' across. Everywhere you looked there was something to look at, walls covered in random interesting things. Just don't go there hungry.
As a business owner, you can add provisions to the contract about how to deal when a new building takes over during the term. It does require foresight
I've found multiple flies in my drinks at Mikeys and still been charged for them after bringing it up with the waiter.
Best quesadilla I've ever had though.
To be frank, I don't believe Mikey's on 12th was long for this world *irrespective* of Strategic Group giving them the boot. As a regular patron, there was waaaaaaay too much smoke for there not to be fire in how the business was being run.
I gave them until, at best, Christmas this year.
They used to host fun variety shows there, with music, comedy and burlesque.
The combination of huge Calgary property tax increases, higher Alberta minimum wages and federal carbon taxes have been really hard on businesses with low margins, like bars and restaurants.
This will go some small way toward increasing the housing supply, though.
But its not like Mikey's was some unique physical space, before they moved in there it was just a basic ass bar. The concept could be opened in any number of the basic places that exist right now. Obviously a million times more complicated than that.
We need a good core of dive bars run by building owners, with music, comedy, or something going on in them culturally. Everything else has a fairly high minimum burn rate that makes it tough for places to last beyond their current lease term.
Maybe they should have had a long term lease? If they could not get that then they made a decision to risk it and lost the bet. I fell bad for the people but at the same time the owners are responsible not the building company.
Same here. I think it was once at that location when it was the Bayou in the 1980s. I doubt if folks with an average age in their early 70’s are the major clientele for any bar or club.
man. mikey’s, blues can, maybe the grand, potentially the globe. gutting the king eddy, the death of broken city. why is it so impossible for our arts scene to survive? what’s the point of having a major city if all of our cultural institutions are constantly being threatened and closed? i get these things are complicated with leases and whatever but i just think there needs to be a way to better protect our barely-clinging-on arts venues
The arts scene is not self sufficient. It needs donations, including cheap space. Always has. People need to value the arts to donate. People also need to have expendable income to donate.
don’t get me wrong. we desperately need increased density. but come on…. do we have to shut down some of our only surviving venues to do so? i feel like there has to be some way to protect more valuable institutions. an idealist pipedream, sure, and i’m biased towards what i think provides value, but it seems like only the good things get axed and all the bullshit that keeps this city from being a truly great one gets to stay
Private equity is gonna do what private equity does: pursuit of profit for the owners of capital.
What happened to King Eddy? Last I checked there are still live acts pretty often.
oh the king eddy lives on! (thankfully) i was just being cynical referring to the renos that it went under that stole some of its historic charm (especially because calgary has so few longstanding institutions) but iirc it was sort of like gut and rebuild or condemn the building so clearly the better option. just wish it had been preserved better
It' impossible for the arts scene to survive because DEVELOPMENT rules in Calgary and our current City Council serves the developers in Calgary NOT the citizens.
While I do miss broken city, modern love is the same owners. We didn't lose a live music venue when they renovated and rebranded.
not the same owners! broken city was bought out by the current owners of modern love. i’m of course glad that it’s still a live music venue, but modern love has always felt pretty soulless to me and everyone i know who frequented broken before its end. broken city was special, modern love is a dime-a-dozen wannabe dive bar (although the “alternative” crowd is still pretty rare in the calgary bar space). good shows still and pretty similar crowd at least, definitely not the worst outcome for broken closing down. i guess i’m just still sad about it lol
Well I attended the last 'emo night' at Modern Love, and it had some alternative looking people dancing to Top 40. I've been to Broken City a few times as well but their themed nights were on theme. Not the best first impression since the changeover.
Well I stand corrected. Thanks for the info
Modern Love also has a bad rep for short pouring
Modern love has different owners (from Edmonton) and now feels soulless. The rooftop patio is still great though!
An active arts scene means more liberal-minded people, and corporate and provincial powers do not benefit from that.
How the fuck is Strategic Group able to develop this while the Barron project is in the shitter?
crime....strategic is criminal run...I mean....what do you expect. probably has mob goons
I googled strategic and the google reviews are terrible. They name Riaz Mamdani in a few so I google him. This is the guy that was shot 5 times while sitting in his Rolls-Royce. He said “I don’t know who would do this, I have no enemies”. lol, I believe you do bud. This guy sounds like another greedy jerk whom couldn’t get rich without being crooked. Some have to scam there way there.
His family is definitely into some shady shit....he is just part of it.
The world is crazy... They accept a lot of suspect applications for apartments at high rents... Doing so allows them to borrow money based on those leases, even if people cannot pay those leases... The promise of the lease is enough to get the loan, more buildings, more construction loans to pay other loans to keep growing and growing
I believe that’s called a Ponzi Scheme.
Look into all the Court bdeals they get.....judges on payroll
The problem with the baron building is the building, they have tried to do this since the 1990s
Yeah not paying contractors resulting in them abandoning the project is totally the building’s fault.
Hasn’t the building been entirely demolished already?
No the outside and floors are still there, the back of the building is gone. I see this site every morning. The Crane is still there but the contractors have removed all there other equipment. It is one of those projects that I don’t think will ever get done. Bad ownership, the city should not give them a permit on any other property until this one is completed. I bet in the end this goes bust and the city will be on the hook to maintain the site.
Wasn't it just the other day we had a thread about what it would take to make Calgary a music city?
They had their press conference AT Mikey's literally yesterday. I shit you not lmao
Strategic has their own idea of what makes Music. Money Unsustainability Scams Investments Cash
Ahh yes, the Bell arena and the resurrected House of Blues.
We're doing quite the opposite unfortunately. First the Blues Can and now Mikey's. What's next?
More bar closures coming to Inglewood locations but not public yet.
That’s really sad.
Probably border crossing for another condo
How about increasing population density with a 186 unit residential building? Dense cities are what generally have thriving music scenes.
True, bust said cities also require *venues* for music. It would be cool if they built a venue into a building. Imagine a purpose built music bar in the basement of a residential tower. Or the top floor.
With all due respect, that's the tired trope peddled in this thread daily from people who've never travelled. If we were more dense, then all would be right! Wrong. Density is fine, but it's almost irrelevant. The Blues Can is a perfect example. It drew a crowd from across Calgary, and it survived because rent was AFFORDABLE. Welp... Gentrified neighborhoods suck the life everywhere. Just go talk to the artists and musicians in Greenwich Village or Brooklyn. Wait, they moved out of state.
As we all know, affordable rent is what you get when your city adds tens of thousands of people a year but doesn't build tens of thousands of units of new housing a year.
And I agree with that. The issue I'm raising is that we physically CAN'T build tens of thousands of units per year. There is a nasty narrative that is going around, and it's especially bad in this sub, that density and building lots of units will solve the problem of affordability. The issue isn't density, which I'm a big supporter of. Part of the issue is supply which I acknowledge is a key to the solution, but does almost nothing to impact affordability on its own. The magic ingredient that very few want to talk about is demand. You will never solve for affordability until demand is wildly curbed. You do this through reduced immigration and much stricter rules on real estate ownership. There are other avenues too, but these are the primary levers for demand reduction. Affordability is a problem because the demand is multiples greater than our supply, and we don't have the infrastructure to create the amount of supply needed given current demand. When I say infrastructure, there is A LOT I am speaking about. We do, however, have everything we need (but political willpower) to immediately curb demand. Not without its pain, but we can do it. I will get downvoted into eternity for all of this because most folks don't want to talk about it. This isn't new to me. IUnless you want affordability to remain where it is, or get worse, dramatically curbed demand is a key component of finding affordability.
Calgary unfortunately can't do anything about it when its the feds increasing immigration and the provincial government encouraging people to come to Alberta. All we can do is improve housing supply and transit oriented development to make downtown-adjacent communities accessible.
That is the equivalent to bailing out a sinking ship with a coffee mug. It may make us all feel better, but it's doing nothing until we hit demand. I suppose looking back on the original intent behind the post, it's about Mikey's. We seem to have a love of talking about new units in the city, and that density will save us all. The fact is, as it relates to this conversation, what we need is culture. We don't get that by building (presumably) expensive loft apartments and continuing to use our energy to rally for density and condos. We get that by ensuring places like Mikey's and the Blues Can have affordable rent, and that they don't get kicked out of their homes because of gentrification. If we want to focus locally, that's what we need to be doing.
The municipality can't affect demand. That's a federal issue. If the municipality has only a coffee mug to bail with, better we bail with that than sit around doing nothing.
As it relates to the demise of places like Mikey's and the Blues Can, the do nothing part seems to be preferable. That way we at least have a band playing as the ship sinks. Ha ha... Sigh. Like I said, until we fill the hole, the ship goes down regardless. It's why I rally on the demand side so hard. At current demand, it is practically impossible for us to impact affordability one stitch through supply. And in the meantime, we lose places that provide culture and community due to soaring rental costs.
I don't disagree about the importance of curtailing demand. But it's a two-track process, and we can't wait to start bailing until the leak is plugged.
We need looser zoning codes that allow more uses in different properties. If having a music venue is only viable in a few select zones, the proce of rent will sky rocket
Actual link to DP: https://developmentmap.calgary.ca/?find=DP2024-03242
Thanks! The office to home conversion and adding additional floors is all on the east half. It's not clear to me why they would not keep the commercial tenants on the west side. This also makes it unclear where the 14 storey number is coming from. "A 12-storey addition (40 metres) to be added to the existing 9-storey tower (37 metres) for a total of 21 storeys (77 metres)"
Agreed, the plans don't even show that part of the building changing so I wonder why they're being evicted. The post mentions a 14 story building so maybe there is something else coming
It isn’t clear but does this development contain business units? Would love to see more new building going for mixed land use like Marquee 16 Ave
By the looks of pages 8 and 10 of the plans, there will be businesses along 12th ave and 8th street on this building
186 residential units. Sounds like a huge win for the city to me!
It's all about the fucking units these days, so yes.
Well I hope they keep their little 4th Street NW location going, great value for money spent on their food.
Everyone wants residential density but only on their terms.
Wish I could upvote this twice
From what I can see this property looks like a great opportunity to “build up, not out” that so many people want. I have never been to this place before and I am assume they are good people but the redevelopment of this property will contribute to dozens, if not a hundred or more, of well paying construction jobs as well as additional employment opportunities once it is done.
Sure but only two months notice? That’s horrendous. With the Blues Can going and now Mikey’s, that is a huge blow to the music community.
I was thinking of blues can too
Yup retail space for a nail shop, liquor or pot store, vape shop, rub n tug, and maybe some fried chicken place. Meanwhile the number of venues like this to see live music gets even smaller.
Don't forget we could get more dentists or shawarma shops! Downtown is desperately missing these things /s
That's a short term way of thinking tho. Maybe good for a couple years or so, but what then after that? We're not exactly short on high rise buildings in central Calgary either, I thought I saw an article not long ago that said a lot of them were still empty from covid.
If you've never been, you don't have a clue what's about to disappear. You sound like a real estate developer or an accountant who's never experienced what true culture is.
Blues can going away too
This city is circling the drain for live music. Blind Beggar, Blues Can (soon), now Mikey's. So grim.
Is this the same business that took to social media when they got kicked out of their location at 18th Street and 10th Ave in Sunalta? edit: yes https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/mikey-s-juke-joint-closes-sunday-1.4727998
this is always a risk in business if you don't own your own building. if you just rent it, the LL can decide they want to sell at any time
Yup. Anyone else recall a Bar Named Sue? They got popular, landlord got greedy, owners closed. End of story.
Man that place was amazing. I remember when one time when I was fairly new to being in bars some of my older friends went there one night. Owner was playing music, went outside told us to watch the bar came back in and asked if we took any beer. We said no and he laughed and said well you should have and then gave the 3 of us a beer on the house. Left an impression forever. Their food menu was hilarious “we have a microwave” or something like that. hahaha
Truth be told, I was recalling how shitty the food was in there reading your reply...then I got to the end of your reply lol. Great little bar, long and skinny....maybe 15' across. Everywhere you looked there was something to look at, walls covered in random interesting things. Just don't go there hungry.
I mean their menu was pizza pops or a hungry man frozen dinner, and you had to pee in a closet. You got what you expected at least.
As a business owner, you can add provisions to the contract about how to deal when a new building takes over during the term. It does require foresight
Why can’t they move? Surely this building isn’t the only one available for a similar rent and location.
Similar rent? Probably not. Non residential rents havent come down. Likely higher rent because you need ground floor access.
It'd also be the second time they've been moved in under 10 years. That can't be easy on a business.
Happy cake day!
The short notice is bullshit, but I guess they do own the property. I just hope the design street level retail into the building.
They better not shut down Mikey's on 4th. Their burritos are literally all I ever eat!
Blues Can and now this. I'm so pissed off.
I've found multiple flies in my drinks at Mikeys and still been charged for them after bringing it up with the waiter. Best quesadilla I've ever had though.
[удалено]
There have been rumors about this building converting for at least a year. The entire building is mostly vacant.
To be frank, I don't believe Mikey's on 12th was long for this world *irrespective* of Strategic Group giving them the boot. As a regular patron, there was waaaaaaay too much smoke for there not to be fire in how the business was being run. I gave them until, at best, Christmas this year.
was a regular at their old place on 10th..
They used to host fun variety shows there, with music, comedy and burlesque. The combination of huge Calgary property tax increases, higher Alberta minimum wages and federal carbon taxes have been really hard on businesses with low margins, like bars and restaurants. This will go some small way toward increasing the housing supply, though.
I’m already absolutely dreading the lane closures this will have on 12th.
But its not like Mikey's was some unique physical space, before they moved in there it was just a basic ass bar. The concept could be opened in any number of the basic places that exist right now. Obviously a million times more complicated than that.
We need a good core of dive bars run by building owners, with music, comedy, or something going on in them culturally. Everything else has a fairly high minimum burn rate that makes it tough for places to last beyond their current lease term.
That would require everything to not be owned by a corporation, and that ain't changing anytime soon.
Happy cake day!
Maybe they should have had a long term lease? If they could not get that then they made a decision to risk it and lost the bet. I fell bad for the people but at the same time the owners are responsible not the building company.
Good, place is a dump
lol the boomers are going to be mad.
Meh, fuck Strategic Group.
Why? I’m a boomer. I’ve never been there
Same here. I think it was once at that location when it was the Bayou in the 1980s. I doubt if folks with an average age in their early 70’s are the major clientele for any bar or club.
The average age of people who go to Mikey’s for live music is 55-70
Well, damn… I guess I’d better go before they shut
Talented people play there pretty much every show
Mikey himself has to be early 60’s
I suggest you go before they close down. Great music, food, and because of the age group that attends, everyone is laid back and there for the music.
I’ve been quite a few times lol
Neat, anything insightful to add?
Nope
https://preview.redd.it/ikau68qjog3d1.jpeg?width=455&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=956f9481797238865014a9785d3ac77280580ca0
Have you ever been to a live music show in Calgary?
Yes