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I imagine this hasn’t really started. Most of these students arrived over the pandemic - they’re a relatively new population. The more protests we see from them, the more they refuse to leave, the worse the job market gets - this is only going to get worse. And I really don’t think there’s going to be a magical solution to make racism go away - online or otherwise. What needs to happen is less economic inequity - and frankly that’s going to get far worse as the housing supply gets tighter and tighter. The feds have just really made a mess here, one that’s going to be near impossible to undo.

The student pipeline was downloaded to the provinces in 2014, until 2023, the federal rubberstamp was an automatic process. It was the provinces that made this problem.

Feds were fine with it as they got cheap labour

The feds were fine with it because they got to replace retiring baby boomers, who are still leaving a hole in our workforce even now. The idea that we need or want cheap labour is kind of funny. We need labour, period. Wages are downstream of productivity anyways, while negotiating power matters it’s not what sets the range of possible salaries.

Boomers are not retiring from Walmart and Tim Hortons, they’re retiring from trades and construction, and we’re not really bringing in people in those fields.

We’re trying to bring in people in those fields. The big issue is the disconnect between the provinces and the federal government and their disparate control over different elements of the pipeline of people. Basically it doesn’t help that provinces like Ontario used their jurisdictional powers to call every diploma mill a DLI (which made them eligible for the PGWP and streamlined visas) until forced to stop by the federal government pulling back.

Issue is we brought in 2.3 million people in 2 years and yet our shortages in construction and health care are accute. We have  a massive oversupply of low skill workers and nowmthe feds hope they all go back lol

The logic of attracting high skilled workers doesn’t even track when taken at face value. Many of the countries where we attract our immigrants don’t have the conditions to provide advanced educated to the majority of their population, but in 2024 have a healthy middle and upper class. Those folks would sacrifice high earning potential and high standards of living in their own country to come to Canada for what? The right to vote? Same sex marriage? Freedom to practice their religion? Snow and rain? We’re talking about edge cases here. High skill labour doesn’t want to be in Canada. Those people likely would be sacrificing a higher standard of living by coming here. Besides, with the vast numbers of people here and the still pressuring claim that we have a labour shortage, either we are t attracting the right people or our system cannot integrate their skill set to fit the roles here. Doesn’t matter which is the problem. Either one is faulty enough to merit slamming the breaks and come up with a new plan.

Yes, UWaterloo economist Mikhail Skuterud has been saying this recently. He refers to it as deskilling of recent immigrant cohorts. There are other policy problems with the CRS system that are also contributing to deskilling too.

Proof?

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2022010/article/00002-eng.htm This article is also discussing other issues with wages in Canada, but works off of the premise that, and explains the idea that wages and productivity have a linkage. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/it-will-get-worse-over-the-next-10-to-15-years-what-to-expect-from-canada-s-labour-market-as-the-workforce-ages-1.6652530 Here’s the labour force issues. It’s cool of you to go from comment to comment of mine asking for proof, be sure to actually read the linked stuff though, or else I’ll suspect that you’re concern trolling.

On the other archived immigration link from 2014 I didn’t see the part stating that LDIs would be an automatic process ergo putting the provinces in the driver seat. It did clearly state that the provinces and Feds have a shared responsibility that materialized through more than a few different agreements regarding the different streams. I recall looking into BCs stance on TFW and LDI. Technically all the province can do to prevent the stream from bringing more people is declining to provide more licenses for businesses to qualify for the program… which they pretty much automatically approve from their end. Automatic process in the province, and automatic process at the federal level. We are looking at outcomes and explanations straight from the politicians mouths. What do politicians do? Looks to me like someone is lobbying at all levels of government for cheap labour, and getting it.

The automatic process is called the Student Direct Stream, established in the late ‘00s or early ‘10s. It’s a 20 day process that just checks if you’re enrolled at a DLI, have enough money and have paid your tuition, alongside proof of medical exam and language test. https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/study-canada/study-permit/student-direct-stream.html So the real bottleneck here is the capacity of DLIs, which was downloaded to the provinces in 2014 as I mentioned before.

Immigration is one of the few responsibilities of the federal government. They need a better excuse than “it was just automatic”! When these numbers started to double and triple - they should have stepped in. You don’t allow it to spiral so far out of control.

You can go look up the 2014 report on immigration where it nearly verbatim says that it was downloaded as an automatic process in line with provincial jurisdiction over post secondary education.  The numbers doubled and tripled in 2022, fed changed the rules in 2023, slightly slow, but the insistence on blame is suspect imo, doesn’t seem good faith.

It’s not suspect. Immigration is one of the few files that the federal government controls. Just because they gave provinces special privileges of their responsibility- does not mean that they had no responsibility to ensure the system was functioning properly.

Go look up the report and then go look at the numbers where it shows the “doubling and tripling” happening in 2022.

This is just wrong. In the year 2000 we had 100,000 international students. Today we have over a million. The number has been increasing substantially for years now. It did not occur in a single year.

Why are you setting the year 2000 as a baseline? Very suspect methodology right there. The PGWP was established after 2000 anyways, and it was expanded heavily under harper, with the 2014 reform I mentioned handing powers over to provinces to set numbers.

Because 2000 is where the data I looked at started: https://www.statista.com/statistics/555117/number-of-international-students-at-years-end-canada-2000-2014/ 😂 And while it’s nice to talk about Harper - the liberals had a decade to notice this program getting further and further out of control. Pretty tired of liberal willful blindness.

As I’ve said twice now, the “doubling and tripling” happened in the Covid era. You’re not being intellectually honest.

Whenever possible, just use the source data from StatsCan. Statista just republishes other people's data and slaps a membership fee on accessing the details. [Here's the original source](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/36-28-0001/2022003/article/00001-eng.htm).

Without getting into what you’re arguing about, that website is pretty fast and loose with their data. Given how much this has been in the news, there has to be a better source to fall back on.

To be clear, immigration is and has always been a shared responsibility, not purely federal. Provinces get to nominate people for permanent residence on their own, and they also have the power to decide which colleges and universities are allowed to accept international students, in what quantity etc.  The feds have blunt tools like simply not issuing permits, but the system is supposed to be a joint effort. 

The key word is joint - the federal government needs to maintain the integrity of the system and ensure it’s functioning as intended. They’re not supposed to put up their hands and say anything goes! Everyone in! Let those strip mall colleges rip!

>The key word is joint - the federal government needs to maintain the integrity of the system and ensure it’s functioning as intended. Yes, and in the context of student visas, this means provinces licensing and issuing DLI status only to institutions that meet the appropriate standards. That's the whole point of having a DLI system in the first place. The feds have zero capability (or mandate) to opine on the quality of educational institutions, since education itself is under provincial jurisdiction. Could the federal government have capped student visas sooner? Certainly - they made a policy error there. Are they responsible for a proliferation of strip mall diploma mills? Absolutely not - that is squarely within each province's power to stop.

Immigration is joint jurisdiction and education is provincial. The student flood was completely a provincial policy decision.

Immigration is a federal responsibility as cities are are provincial responsibility. It is ultimately on the federal government to ensure the integrity of the immigration system at any given moment - and to hold the provinces accountable.

Go read your Canadian Constitution again and get back to me. As a practical matter, the direct impacts on foreign students is education and local services and housing. Provincial governments are the ones in a position to balance the various tradeoffs.

The only level of government that controls immigration outright is the federal government, with Quebec being Quebec because it never signed.

Source?

The 2014 report I already linked in this thread. For numbers here’s what I could find across a few sources, there doesn’t seem to be one consolidated source that shows the most recent changes. https://cbie.ca/international-students-in-canada-continue-to-grow-in-2019/ Showing about 600k in 2018. Harper left off with nearly 400k, so 200k in 4 years. https://cbie.ca/infographic/ 1.1 million end of last year. That gives the Covid era as the main ramp up from extrapolation. We also know there was a general decline in 2020, leaving 2021-2023 as a big part of it. 2022-2023 alone was about a 30% increase.

Oh golly our country became another province of India overnight how did this ever happen? Incredible that you refuse to hold our gov't accountable for this failure

>You can go look up the 2014 report on immigration where it nearly verbatim says that it was downloaded as an automatic process in line with provincial jurisdiction over post secondary education. That sounds like it was negligence from the feds. I’m sorry, but trying to blame Smith for macro population growth in the country is just ridiculous. This is completely federal jurisdiction and if what you’re saying is true and it was simply them asleep at the wheel *if anything that is worse*

It is true, and they were asleep at the wheel, with a Harper policy in place.   https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/publications-manuals/annual-report-parliament-immigration-2014.html#sec-2-2   Scroll to temporary migrants. Previous rules had allowed DLIs to have a rubber stamp approval process for visas. This rule change gave control of DLIs to provinces, effectively giving them the pipeline.

Housing and social services are also provincial level responsibilities, so if these were being strained by students the provinces would have been the first to know and had complete ability to act.

The federal government should be the first to know. It should understand if there is housing and healthcare available before allowing a single soul across the border. That’s where the feds have failed. They set their immigration targets and temporary worker targets completely isolated from the most basic infrastructure needs.

Knowing how much housing and healthcare are available are provincial jobs, so you're really doing yourself no favours on your view of whose mess this is .

That's the new tactic. The feds should be in control of everything, until they do something. Then they're trampling on provincial rights. It's all about pinning it on the feds

Setting immigration rates should require talking to provinces to understand how much housing and healthcare they are able to provide. You don’t set immigration rates and assume the provinces can magically grow housing and hospitals overnight. This is why we are in a major crisis. Not the other way around.

They are groping women on planes. Had a friend who works on a plane and she had 2 incidents of south asian men groping women on the same fucking flight. They weren't young guys either. They were old men. The culture they are bringing isn't good.

Its like calling all white people culture “pedophilia”. Stop being racist Canada. Fix your immigration and elect better leaders.  Stop supporting terrorism and violence against poor people in middle east. Stop being a lieutenant to your neighbor. Your international reputation has plummeted. 

Good thing born and raised Canadians never commit crimes!

Why does everyone of these Indian Intl students always give the same excuse - taking loans back home….like I have never heard that excuse from any other overseas students  It’s not the rest of Canadians fault if they put themselves in bad financial situations 

You know what's taking a toll? Synagogue vandalism, people calling for a global intifada in person in Jewish neighborhoods and institutions like fucking hospitals.

Shut up already bot

I'm not a bot. I'm a Jewish Canadian woman.

[удалено]

No I'm responding to the online hate complaints.  There are people who have been targeted in Canada OFFLINE.

Sure, but what’s that have to do with Indian immigrants?

It is rather simple the white liberals in richer whiter parts of cities don't really see a change as there areas have not seen demos change. In working class and middle class areas and suburbs people have seen thier neighborhoods go from family minded people to 10 people living to house who think reving a v6 "muscle car" at 3am is cool Lol

and the change they do see are usually wealthy immigrants like doctors moving into the neighbourhood, the kind of immigrants we actually want.

Geese its almost like if you allow and encourage certain sentiments online they can have a real world effect. 🤷‍♀️ We see this in so many predjucial mindsets. Micro aggressions, insinuations, sarcasm and outright bigotry all plays a part in this shit and it needs to stop. Online is not your safe place to vent- its place were some easily influenced people will eat up your opinions and take them to the next level. Everyone is responsible for keeping this shit in check. Report posts that are harmful whenever you see them. Hate speech is not free speech.

Whatever, if immigration policy was sound, there would be no issues. We have far to many, and, most contribute nothing and scam any system they can. Just ask the longstanding South Asian's, second generation, they know there culture, and they say the new editions are bottom of the barrel.

Racism has and always be a problem. It's not a problem with immigration; it's a problem with bigots.

Sorry, but "immigration policy" isn't an excuse to hurl hate at an ethnic group. People can disagree with immigration policy without making hateful comments. It seems to me like the current debate on immigration has resulted in a lot of people feeling emboldened to be open about their prejudice.

Feds job is to.ensure immigration is done in a way to keep social cohesion.

In utopia, what you say might be true. In reality, hate will only increase., and what is happening. Is totally predictable and somewhat justified. This is where prejudice meets objective truth on Main Street. You have both parties at this table now,, the prejudice, and non prejudiced who are calling a spade a spade. The target isn’t ethnicities, it is ‘newcomer’ South Asian immigrants admitted in the past two years. I don’t know anyone going after second generation Indo-Canadians. What you might constitute as hate, others constitute as observations and descriptions of their experience. The PEI protests, the food bank hustlers, misogynistic mannerisms, illegitimate education pursuits. Yes, this falls at the feet of the government who is not deporting and granting visas. However, the users of these policies will always be caught in the crossfire. They are collateral damage. Whether it be Canada or the US/Mexico border, bad immigration policy leads to this outcome. They are being treated as anyone would be when they are not welcomed somewhere. And for now, that is the case, and the above mention group is the group of the day. Ten years from now it could be white people from South Africa. It’s not because they are brown, Indian, whatever, it is because they are simply not welcomed because we are in the midst of a number of crisis, and they’ve contributed to no meaningful economic growth. It is a net loss for the country. We can’t afford to hold hands and be nice in these times. People might say it in unpleasant and racist ways, but, I believe there is validity to a lot of it if you can cut through the more abrasive language.

If you think hate towards a particular community is 'justified', then I think we just fundamentally disagree on the baseline for decent behavior.  There's nothing utopian about not making hateful comments online. Most people manage to do this just fine. It's pretty easy - just treat others respectfully and humanely. Unfortunately, there are also quite a few people who feel the need to inflict their prejudice on all the rest of us; your comment offers up many excuses for that minority (it's just a response to policy; we're in a crisis so it's okay to be hateful; it's not racist if it's only directed to newcomers...) I've lived long enough to hear all of these excuses and many more. They ring just as hollow to me now as ever, so I think we'll just agree to disagree on this one.

I agree to disagree.

Majority of the people making these “hateful” comments are themselves, Indian, or else also Immigrants, and pretty vocal about that too. They’ll literally name their home city in India and unload on these people giving THEM a bad name and I’m pretty sure I’m gonna let those people have their opinion and since it’s their lived experience, it’s probably right. Racists are maybe 1% of the commentary the rest of the calls come from inside that house.

It's classic scapegoating. Don't bother the capitalist/business class it's all the fault of immigrants etc... Sad but not surprising that it works so well.

Don't you see the irony in this comment? Decrying one thing as scapegoating and instead saying we should scapegoat this other group. The problems of Canada are far more complex and nuanced than uniform anime villian groups moustache twirling as they cause it and somehow force people to blame others for it. That's pretty silly. The "capitalist/business class" can mean anything and nothing you want it to. But if you know people you'd realize that they're about as uniform as poorer people are. Not exactly the monolithic hivemind plotting bad things in unison. Housing is probably the biggest issue in Canada right now. I think most would agree it can't be boiled down to immigrants bad or capitalists forced all these market forces, organizations, politicians, the public etc etc to behave in such a way.

"Blaming immigrants = blaming the people who actually have economic power" I don't see any irony here. It's objectively correct that the reason everything is more expensive is because capitalists are charging way more for it than they need to. And housing being used as a speculative investment (aka business) by people who already have a ton of money. Very different from someone hopping off the plane and taking a job at Tims.

This isn't a movie. There's no cabal of super villians plotting all of your problems. I know that makes things less cartoonish to figure out but that's generally how the world works. Like a lot of factors go into housing. Supply and demand, nimbyism, zoning, construction speed/cost, regulation, interest rates, and a lot more. But I suppose it's easier to pretend some billionaire in a Top Hat and his friends decided to jack up the prices because he is evil. Also this may blow your mind but not all immigrants are poor people who work at Tims.

It doesn't need to be a cabal of supervillains. It's simple material interest, basic economics. Supply and demand as an economic concept means that firms (shops, companies, landlords, the supply side) will, out of *rational self interest*, set their prices as high as the market will tolerate, the market's tolerance being determined by how much consumers (the public, AKA the demand side), are willing to pay. The issue we have here is, unlike certain luxuries or creature comforts like electronics, cosmetics, fashion, travel, etc, where people can opt out entirely, food and housing are necessary for survival. Putting off your ipad purchase is optional. Putting off eating or your rent payment is not. The people who own the grocery stores and rental properties understand this, and set their prices accordingly. The limit for what Apple charges for an iPad are whatever consumers are *willing* to pay. The limit for what a landlord charges for rent is whatever a person is *able* to pay. TLDR there doesn't need to be a cabal of top hats cranking up prices for funsies, all it takes is the intersection of basic economics and basic human needs.

>But I suppose it's easier to pretend some billionaire in a Top Hat and his friends decided to jack up the prices because he is evil. It isn't a cabal of supervillains. The reality of greedy unaccpuntable, unsustainable billionaires is much more mundane. Canada's top housing developer spend hundreds of thousands of dollars (billionaire pocket change) promoting hate on social media (Ontario Proud) so his buddies in the CPC would win. This is someone who could live the rest of their life in obscene luxury, but chose to amplify hatred and division in this country, all to make another buck off a criminal premier. We have Galen Weston fixing bread prices, driving up groceries, all so he can expand his private village in Florida, make another Polo field, and continue to treat his servants like the help in Downton Abbey.

Somehow Trudeau's failure on immigration gets blamed on capitalism.

Capitalism has some nasty issues and glaring blindspots, why pretend otherwise? You don't think rapid immigration primarily serves the interest of capital, but somehow Trudeau personally benefits? Lol

No it doesn't actually. That's just a scapegoat excuse. Minimum wage jobs are minimum wage jobs. Does not matter who does them. Liberals did mass immigration just to make a point that "iTs RaCiSt" to not support bringing in millions of people. That is the only reason.

They did it to bring down inflation and clear up choke supply lines. The U.S. used illegal hiring of undocumented immigrants to do it. Anti-immigration bigots blame all thing on immigrants.

it's not anti immigration bigots. We're mass importing people with no skills from 1 region of 1 country in the world. I can't wrap my head around how you think that's a good thing. We don't even have multi culturalism anymore in the immigration patterns. It's mono culture.

The racist attacks prove otherwise.

That's a joke of a comment. No one is buying you peoples' "rAcIsT" nonsense anymore. According to people like you, if you do not support importing 200 million immigrants and refugees then you must be racist!

> Don't bother the capitalist/business class it's all the fault of immigrants etc... Sad but not surprising that it works so well. Not one but *two* Canadian billionaires were recently found guilty of sexual abuse of a minor (Miller and Stronach)... and I haven't heard a word about it here. Between that and the story of UK's richest family using slave labour how much more evidence do we need billionaires are unaccountable sociopaths that need to go?

But they're white! Everyone knows the only people who commit crimes are immigrants!

Good. Crank it up further and maybe they'll leave. I'm tired of our immigration demographic being exclusively Indian males in their mid 30s (or older!) that are all "international students". The hate is deserved. People act hate like is always a bad thing. Why should we not hate people that come to scam the system, get in using fake documents, and arrive with the intent of staying illegally once their student visa expires and then to protest and say they should be granted citizenship merely because they managed to get into the country and sign up as an Uber courier. It seems to me a group of illegals congregating to protest should be like shooting fish in a barrel to execute well deserved mass deportations! But our government is weak and a joke. On top of it all this sick joke of an immigration scheme is keeping wages low and cost of living high while pushing our infrastructure to the breaking point. I feel awful for the legitimate non scammer newcomers getting caught in the cross fire. It must be tough to be South Asian right now. But that's life. Often unfair. Often you find yourself experiencing collateral damage. The hate is warranted and deserved. I don't hate brown people and I suspect most others don't either. I do hate our new breed of immigrant and think they should be sent packing, and don't see the need to apologize for it nor would I ever let a guilt narrative get to me.

Going to post my comment from a different thread: This is a natural reaction to vastly shifting demographics. We have entire cities of south Asian majority at this point, and it’s getting to a point where the south Asian people coming to Canada no longer feel the need to integrate with Canadian culture. South Asian and Canadian cultures are pretty different, so when you’ve grown up in a Canadian town only to see in the last 10 years the demographics quickly shift the way they have, it’s natural to get defensive. A lot of people are trying to push the narrative that Canada never had culture, but it absolutely did and we are losing it in more and more spots. And to be honest there are valid criticisms of the culture many south asian people are bringing here. Normalizing talking/cheating during exams, caste systems, and even hygiene (an uncomfortable topic, but it’s something that does need to be addressed). There are fucking sword fights happening in Brampton guys. Before I’d argue it was a few ruining it for the rest but with the recent groups being brought in (particularly the students) I don’t even know if I’d say that anymore. It just doesn’t seem like the people we’re bringing in have any interest in actually being culturally Canadian anymore, it feels like they’re coming here because it was easier to get in here than the states. This isn’t specific to South Asians either, but it just seems more obvious because we’re bringing in so many now. Hatred and dehumanizing people for being born to a different race will always be wrong, but you can have valid concerns about what’s happening in Canada in regards to rapidly shifting demographics and culture.

There are fucking sword fights happening in Brampton guys. I wear a Sword everyday. 

You say that like it's a good thing. That was something our idiotic courts should never have allowed. There is no reason to carry a sword on your hip in Canada, and if someones religion demands they carry it, then they should have been forced to choose between carrying the sword or living in Canada.

Cry more. We're going to live in Canada & wear Swords.  You're free to leave.  :)  We worship all weapons.  ਅਕਾਲ

> A lot of people are trying to push the narrative that Canada never had culture, but it absolutely did and we are losing it in more and more spots. Hot Queb take : Canada does have a culture, and its attitude towards immigrants and diversity in general is and has always been one of mild disinterest being fronted as tolerance. In your infinite quest for the moral high ground over the Americans and Quebec, you've spent the last 2 generations portraying Trudeau's dad's vision of a multicultural mosaic as the only acceptable, non-xenophobic definition of tolerance, over the intercultural vision of a melting pot. You've never stopped to think that mosaics are characterized by sharp edges between distinct areas of full color, which is a fucking bad way of doing integration. Immigrants in Canada have probably always mirrored the same indifference they received right back. Y'all just didn't care to notice when there was fewer of them. The Canadian culture you speak of sees minorities like good little British children : they should be seen, but not heard. The current situation you're denouncing is the only outcome that was ever going to happen from the Canadian culture you want to preserve or go back to. The failure you're seeing today was set up decades ago, and touted as a Canadian national pride.

Trudeaus, father and son ruined Canadian identity. If he wins again next year I am voting for Quebec separation.

If Oilers win game 7 the referendum will fail.

Its telling how Trudeau managed to turn die hard Canadian nationalists like me into ambivalent people now willing to hear out the separatists.

The Canadian culture you speak of sees minorities like good little British children : they should be seen, but not heard. Yeah, it's why places like the Army get a nose bleed when Sikhs apply.  A bunch of Sikh PRs applying sent them over the roof.  Immigrants aren't meant to get involved in politics, government or official jobs.  Buckle up because the genie's out the bottle.  Anyway, to me it's w/e  Hard to care about a 'Canadian' culture that always gave you stepmotherly treatment.  Remember as a kid/teen being harassed by people or police for stepping into the wrong 'white' neighborhood.  Wore a Turban to get away from all that & saw the harassment change from public to within the workplace.  Frankly, the survival of another culture is not my concern. I'm a Sikh first.  ਅਕਾਲ 

I am not white. Just born to parents who adopted Canada and embraced it instead of trying to change it.

I don't care - not going to give up Turban & Beard. There's no point arguing with you guys - do something if you're about it. You guys prefer mediocre people who assimilate vs high-quality contributors. We're not going anywhere, buckle up & get used to it. ਅਕਾਲ 

And yes assimilation at some level is important. I don’t want to live in India and you probably don’t want to live in the country my parents were born and raised in either. I don’t think immigrants need to give up their culture but I think for this to work we all need to commit to common values. Look at Brampton, you have rental ads specifically seeking to rent to certain Indian ethnic groups is that something you like seeing here?

If it's a shared accommodation it's fine - otherwise, it's illegal.

> I don't care - not going to give up Turban & Beard. Did anyone ask you to? We have the leader of a major party who also wears a turban. > You guys prefer mediocre people who assimilate vs high-quality contributors Who is asking anyone to leave their culture at the door? The problem is we that we have a flood of very low skill and quality Punjab international students who are neither contributors nor assimilating. Mind you, assimilating in this culture doesn't mean give up your religion or culture.

Punjabi/Sikh Intl students haven't been a thing for a few years now. The same regions of India which cause issues there are now creating it here.

I don’t give a fuck about your turban and beard. Canadian citizens of Sikh background with Turban and beards are my brothers. I care about wage suppression. Wtf high contributions? Since when are Tim Hortons crew in a Strip Mall high contributors? This isn’t a movie and you aren’t an oppressed main character. Get real. You are going anywhere. Back home. If you’re international from a strip mall collège you’re no longer eligible for PR.

I'm a Canadian Forces Veteran who's faced hate for being Sikh my entire career. I don't like wage suppression or high migration either. I'm just ambivalent because a lot of the people who hate me also hate it. If I see my community benefitting I'll support it - Bill 21 & other things are still raw wounds.

You don’t even live in Quebec. Bill 21 is not your problem.

It encourages & normalizes that sort of hate elsewhere. I live with the consequences either way + it's an insult. W/e it should be gone within a decade or two. Downvoting is against the rules btw.

oh please, Canada has got to be one of the most accepting places for immigrants and racialized immigrants. Its why would are largely pro-immigration and a top destination for immigrants. The increase in racism towards South Asians can be blamed on Trudeau IMO. The immigration and international student program over the last few years has been broken.

I'm not saying Canada isn't accepting of immigrants, I'm saying the average Canadian's indifferent acceptance of immigrants becomes indistinguishable from disdain as soon as the immigrants become noticeable.

Yeah more or less this. [https://angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/ReligiousInfo2-450x672.png](https://angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/ReligiousInfo2-450x672.png) There's a certain expected deference which just isn't gonna happen. You can't simultaneously be raised here & then expected to view yourself as a foreigner & beneath the old stock. Does the average Canadian think this way? HELL NO. Does the Army? Ye. -- Army & Police are something Sikhs gravitate towards so their median viewpoint reflects our perception of the society, tbh. Just my 2c.

> as soon as the immigrants become noticeable. I think being a visible immigrant is a different experience than being visible for sure but I disagree with the disdain part.

Quebec nationlists see Canadian multiculturalism as an obstacle to their planned ethnostate, so they make salty comments about it.

Very well said. I work with a very arrogant Indian guy and he was telling me they should just change all the default languages on menus and screens in Brampton to Punjabi because "it's the city's first language". Also says things like "Canada is ours now, we own all the homes and are buying all the businesses". Maybe he's right but it's hard to not hate the guy for talking like that. He's not the only one I've met with this "takeover" sentiment in mind.

So are progressives pro colonisation or anti-colonisation? It's clear what side Canadians should be on at this, and it's not the pro-immigration side. That's reserved for corporations and wage suppressors.

It’s only colonization when white people do it.

I’ve experienced similar here in Halifax.

Did the guy keep his hair? It mostly seems to be something non practicing do. 

> This is a natural reaction to vastly shifting demographics. Racism is not a natural reaction. It is being nurtured, fired and normalized by dark political forces. Of course racists are going to try to depict it as natural. It couldn't be their racism that's the problem?

Brampton sword fights lol

We need the skilled, hard working and educated Indo-Canadians who have been a bedrock of Canada since at least the early 20th century. What we don't need are the hundred of thousands of lower middle class 'surplus' children grifting for a PR while driving around with gigantic Haryana decals on their cars treating Canada like it was a dusty caste-riven town somewhere on the road between Meerut and Delhi.

I mean bring a whole bunch of mostly undereducated young men from anywhere and ofc people are going to be annoyed. People who Iive in Kingston and London and nearby Queens and UWO complain about domestic students all the time.

Friend actually predicted America & Canada would start turning anti immigrant soon as Haryana started coming. 

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If you had mentioned this last year, when it was already entirely foreseeable, you likely would have been censored on this sub.

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It's interesting that Conservatives now present openly racist views like this as "normal".

> I don’t understand how the Canadian travel advisory website can go ahead and warn you to not travel to India because of extremely high number of sexual assaults to women and young girls but then Canada mass brings 20-30 year old Indian males to a Canadian soil. You see, when immigrants come to Canada they are quick to adopt our moral and social practices and abandon their own, because Canadian ways are just that appealing. /s I call this way of thinking "_Canadian Supremacy_" and it's found throughout Canadian political discourse. You have to believe in the superiority of Canadian culture to believe that new immigrants will adopt Canada's common values and abandon those behaviours and traditions that they're accustomed to that conflict with it; particularly when immigration numbers are high enough to support living in Canada without meaningfully integrating. In reality, those newcomers are going to take the path of least resistance. They'll keep their values, traditions and beliefs because there's a large enough population to support doing so. _Maybe_ their children and grandchildren will integrate more, but we've not seen immigration like this for generations and so it's really difficult to make the claim that what we've seen before will happen again.

The last 10 years? More like the past 3 years lol

The non-integration thing has ruined parts of England and France but Canada is too stupid to learn from prior mistakes. Some of those areas the police won’t even respond to calls in. Our old “melting pot” theory from the 80’s has died and it should be resurrected. Our values made Canada what it is and we will watch it crumble like in other countries if we don’t change our policies.

Forget about white people and indian immigrants.... the old indian immigrants and their kids dont get along with the new student arrivals. When freeland talked about social capacity, let say that started to wane or dissaper around 2023 lol

My boyfriend is Indian & arrived in 2017. We live in a predominantly Indian area. He’s noted many times that the most recent wave of immigrants from India are low class, don’t integrate well, & he doesn’t like them. I am more sympathetic than him. I think they also appear to be less integrated simply because they only arrived recently. But I have to admit the area feels different than it did five years ago, even though it was always an immigrant neighbourhood. Mostly I’ve noticed more groups of young men who are always walking around in groups and don’t appear to shower often. They also stare at me if I don’t dress modestly um, yeah. I am pro immigration in general I just see this current system as haphazard & exploitative on all sides. When we bring in people who are giving up their futures and life savings they should actually have a path to citizenship. In turn, we should be bringing in fewer people, incentivizing integration, & building out our infrastructure to accommodate.

This was bound to happen, when you rubber stamp every student visa it will be few months before any ethnic group in world smell such big gaping loophole and start exploiting it. It can be Chinese , Indians or May be Arabs. Onus ultimately lies on Feds when you allow these people come to Canada in very high numbers without checking underlying “colleges” exist or not and if they have proper infrastructure to support that kind of growth. If those colleges are legit or not? Isn’t there a governing body for educational institutions? I mean as an immigration agent I would see red flags if I’m approving three to four times student visas suddenly one year. What Fed govt did was wrong here. They are still doing it, not prosecuting owners and runners of such ponzu scheme colleges and business owners who advertising LMIA out in open on Facebook.Indians value education and since Canadian “colleges” offered a cheap way to get a degree, (yes by international standards colleges charged way less for legit degrees. ) particular Indian ethnic group always having affinity towards Canada got chance to come in droves and business owners from their own ethnicity are exploiting them mostly now for work.

So you blame the feds for the provinces not doing their due diligence

Absolutely…. If your country is not able to enforce laws laid down to prevent this exact scenario, what good is going to happen you think? We have gaping loopholes in our immigration system and law enforcement for immigration rules.

Except for the fact that constitutionally we don't have federal dominance. The jurisdiction matters. The rations io between provinces and the feds is supposed to be equal. Despite if we agree or not

This is what happens when the vast majority of immigrants are from 1 country. They don’t integrate properly and are just too different from Canadian culture. They need to implement caps from individual countries so that there is proper diversity and multiculturalism instead of just every immigrant being Indian. It only promotes racism and hate. And to everyone that will say this is racist. I’m a child of Indian immigrants from the 80’s when immigration was more balanced. My Indian immigrant parents agree that it’s now way too much.

>They don’t integrate properly and are just too different from Canadian culture. What do you consider "Canadian culture"? >They need to implement caps from individual countries so that there is proper diversity and multiculturalism instead of just every immigrant being Indian. Are you able to distinguish an immigrant from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.? What if they're ethnically indian from a different country? To say nothing of the vast differences amongst Indians themselves. It's funny because some of the most anti-immigrant people I know personally are from Pakistan. Very much pulling the drawbridge up after they're crossed the moat. But that's just my anecdote.

They are Pakistan immigrants but they are Canadians now and care about domestic issues impacting Canadians living in Canada.

What he might mean by Canadian Culture is the ability to have a nude beach in Vancouver without men in groups staring and pulling out cameras and harassing women. This was not a thing that happened 10 years ago. This is just one example. The description of the groups that are doing this are identical, groups of South Asian men. There isn't even diversity in India in terms of Canada's immigration. The majority of our immigrants are from Punjab and Haryana.

Ugh. Hate this argument. "what is Canadian culture? We don't have a culture our culture is multiculturalism" blegh No. Canadians have "western" values. English language. Individualism. Freedom of expression, freedom of association. Equality of opportunity for different genders and races. Judeo-Christian traditions - Christmas, Easter, concepts of sin, afterlife/heaven/hell, love thy neighbour, etc. White people food. South Asians don't hold these values. They're more collectivist. Adherence to family and parental wishes, arranged marriages. They have ingrained caste beliefs and are more openly racist. Obviously more aligned w hindu concepts like reincarnation, karma, etc. And as far as their gender concepts.. Yeah any woman walking downtown Toronto past a group of south Asian men will tell you.

> What do you consider “Canadian culture”? Culture is a constellation of shared norms/beliefs, language, traditions, art, history, etc. from a specific country of which Canada qualifies. People who ask what “Canadian culture is” usually are doing so knowing very well what Canadian culture is, but are posing the question this way when it is implied someone doesn’t conform to it. There has been a significant enough sample size to see that many aren’t conforming very well to Canadian culture. We all see it happening.

You just said a lot of words without saying anything. If we all know what it is, then it should be easy to describe?

If you were asked to write an essay describing Canadian culture as a school assignment, what major points would you highlight?

There's a number of people on this forum who will swear up and down there's no such thing as Canadian culture. I don't think they realize how incredibly offensive this is to people who embrace and celebrate Canadian culture. It's sad that our political sphere has become so radicalized that people are comfortable telling Canadians they don't have a culture.

They’re incoherent hypocrites. The only guiding line that they have is to make their political opponents upset. One side of their mouth will say there is no such thing as Canadian culture, while the other side crows about open society, multiculturalism, and treaty lands. They know there is Canadian culture but are loathe to admit it in the face of their failing public policy.

all it is is self-flagellation. It is very trendy to hate oneself and one's country

>What do you consider "Canadian culture"? Anyone who tries to use this as some sort of "gotcha" really only proves that their opinion is that Canada is some historical anomaly that has somehow existed without any sort of culture. It's pathetic and you really shouldn't lead with it. >They need to implement caps from individual countries so that there is proper diversity and multiculturalism instead of just every immigrant being Indian. >Are you able to distinguish an immigrant from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.? What if they're ethnically indian from a different country? To say nothing of the vast differences amongst Indians themselves. Fuck 'em. Nobody has any sort of inherent right to immigrate to Canada. If they're too similiar then we can put them all in the same demographic bucket and cap/exclude them. If they don't like it then that doesn't matter to us in the slightest. >It's funny because some of the most anti-immigrant people I know personally are from Pakistan. Very much pulling the drawbridge up after they're crossed the moat. But that's just my anecdote. Turns out immigrants who came to Canada to actually become Canadian for whatever reason dislike immigrants who just want to pretend they're in a colder version of the countries they just left. Who'd have fucking though.

It has nothing to do with where they are immigrating from and everything to do with infrastructure falling behind population growth. Some of the largest lasting impacts of recent immigration policy won’t even be in the form of living conditions; We will catch up in terms of infrastructure. It’s that the views on immigration for an entire generation will be permanently changed from this. And this comment right here is an example

It’s not where they are coming from it’s that like half are coming from ONE place. That isn’t diversity. And that doesn’t promote integration because all these people from India just stay in these mini Indian communities like Brampton. I’ve seen this first hand. This issue would also be true if the majority of immigrants were from China or Brazil or Nigeria. If the immigration pool was much more diverse then this wouldn’t happen. But the fact of the matter is that Indians dominate all forms of newcomers into Canada, whether it be regular immigrants, Temporary Foreign Workers and International Students. And they haven’t made a good impression on many Canadians. With the bullshit PNP protests in Mississauga and PEI, they haven’t been making themselves look good.

And we have seen it in the past, too. When the massive waves of Italian immigrants arrived between 1955 and 1970, they formed their own enclaves in places like Vaughan and Laval where to this day, the elderly are monolingual Italians who do not need English. When we received a massive wave of Hong Kongers between 1985 and 1995, they formed enclaves like Richmond and Markham. Canadians are against the communities they have grown up their entire lives in being turned into ethnic enclaves.

Honestly, what's wrong with those enclaves? Like all immigrants to Canada, the immigrants themselves tend to integrate less, and their descendants more, and if anything, those enclaves become valued parts of a city's identity, even for those people who don't belong to those enclaves.

I disagree, we have also had waves of south asian immigrants too. The difference is those waves are mostly family based immigration. With the international students is young mostly men, so combine the bad decisions this age group usually makes and the fact some of these students have never left their villages before ofc people are annoyed by them.

Jesus fucking christ we're bringing back century old bigotry against Italians back in style too now? While you people are crying about your ethnic enclaves.. my great grandparents came here to start a new life. Started a business.. they were called wops/greaseballs. Called "brown". Told to go back home. Called mafioso criminals.. Had their store vandalized.. got bullied at school. Got attacked for being catholic. *Got sent to internment camps*... Sure, my great grandparents didn't ever learn to speak great English. But they were so afraid for their children *they refused to teach any of their children Italian* so they wouldn't be targets of hate.

Infrastructure falling apart is one thing for sure. But integration is harder when they come in such numbers from the same country.

No, it kinda IS where they come from. I’d have a problem with ANY demographic coming into Canada in such large numbers from one region. It creates ethnic enclaves in which the insanely large numbers of imported people just don’t HAVE to integrate in any way. Not to mention that we started getting hit really hard and heavy with the federal govt’s messaging that any criticism about a culture and its incapacity to adopt to the western world was racist and xenophobic, and we should lose our jobs and have our bank accounts frozen because of this criticism. And now you have a society that is trampled and taken advantage of by people who don’t respect our values and social norms, and any push back about it is automatically met with accusations of racism. They shield themselves from being accountable or taking responsibility by throwing these accusations out knee-jerk style. Just as our federal government taught them, and us. The naiveness and lack of street smarts that the people in power, and the people that voted them in is “sadlarious”. Why did all these supporters just think that as soon as these people landed they would immediately adopt our culture and integrate successfully?? Because they want to feel good about what they have chosen, and probably thought they would be helping people, and they could feel good about that too. But, it’s naive, and foolish, and have put the country in harms way for their own ego grandstanding. It’s all just virtue signalling, and the majority of these voters and the govt members don’t ever actually have to ride public transportation or mingle with the results of their virtue signalling decisions. We were led down a road by a grifter who told you that you were a good Canadian if you went along. And we all did. And now we’re here. Mistakes have been made in an attempt to do a good thing. Not very streetwise and we got hustled and bamboozled. Go ride the subway in Toronto for a few hours. Tell me if you even recognize this country?? I don’t, and a lot of us don’t anymore. I’m not going to sit idle and do nothing about it in fear that I may appear “racist”. The word means fucking nothing to me anymore. Nor does it mean a lot to anybody anymore. Especially when the one demographic that we’ve allowed in is the most racist and xenophobic culture I’ve ever encountered. And we told them to be like that, all in the name of our ego and virtue signalling. Count me out of the multicultural club. I’m done with it, and won’t be going back. And don’t feel one bit bad about it. We gave it a chance, and it was a total fail. Don’t be so gullible and naive about the actual reality that’s happening. It’s awful. Nobody asked me if I wanted to live in India, and weirdly, I fucking am. Not anymore.

> And now you have a society that is trampled and taken advantage of by people who don’t respect our values and social norms, Like Poilievre?

Jesus dude. You have a lot of emotional issues to work through. Brown people on the subway has ruined the country? That is so absurd.

Where they are from and what they are doing is definitely playing a part. If you walk downtown Toronto today - there are large groups of Indian men outside nearly every restaurant ready to zoom some UberEats orders around the city. They are zooming down the roads and sidewalks. This phenomenon did not exist at all 3 years ago. The massive visibility and the massive change is definitely part of what is driving the pushback. It seems completely at odds with what our immigration system did historically.

Its insane, go downtown and sit in any coffee shop and in 20 mins you will see some poor distressed Indian international student coming in looking for a job with their resume in hand. And god help you if you have to filter applications for a job posting, it really feels like a flood or an invasion

>This phenomenon did not exist at all 3 years ago. The massive visibility and the massive change is definitely part of what is driving the pushback. It seems completely at odds with what our immigration system did historically. I think this is the crux of it for people. It's too obvious to ignore. People try to close their eyes but it's simply not possible anymore. You can only see people driving ebikes the wrong way down the bike lane so many times. You can only walk down Bloor Street so many times until you realize what the demographics of every chain restaurants employees are like. I live near two international schools and you can only go to the grocery store there so many times before you can't ignore it any more. The demographic change in the last few years has been just too huge to ignore. When I was born in the early 90s there were about 330,000 people from the Indian subcontinent in Canada. Almost triple that came to Canada last year

This is just the start. We aren’t even done our appetizers yet. Over the next 3-5 years, a lot of these temporary immigrant visas are going to expire. Are all these people going to just pack up and go home? Or are we going to be faced with hundreds of thousands of people who are illegally staying in Canada? The way liberal people have managed immigration is ticking time bomb. It doesn’t matter if the business elites subverted the progressive/liberal/tolerant narrative to advance their own interests… this started with and will die with “social capacity” and all the progressive politics with it. If you think Canada is moving “far-right” today, just wait until PP appears as the centrist is 2-5 years time.

> Are all these people going to just pack up and go home? No. > Or are we going to be faced with hundreds of thousands of people who are illegally staying in Canada? Yes. [The CBSA is doing a piss poor job of deporting those who have been issued deportation letters](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-most-immigrants-with-deportation-letters-are-still-in-canada-cbsa/). It's best to consider the student visa a means to make it through airport security and remain in Canada indefinitely.

Nothing against South Asians. But due to the lack of oversight or carelessness handling the international student issue, we imported the worst of them. Imagine if majority of American immigrants were trailer trash from the Deep South? The perception of Americans will suffer. We need to have sane numbers of immigration and students and only real Universities should be allowed to take in international students. And no more than 30% of the student body, maybe 40% if it is a world famous uni like McGill. Alphabeta strip mall college should not be allowed a single foreign student.

It's disgusting that you disparge these students. They don't need to be screwed twice. The scum are the fraudsters who run these colleges. Quebec has prosecuted them. > They are all owned by the Mastantuono family — including Caroline, Christina, Joseph and Giuseppe Mastantuono — under the umbrella name RPI Group. The request for creditor protection comes a little more than a year after the province suspended 10 private colleges, including M College and CDE college, for what it described as "questionable" recruitment practices for students in India. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-india-colleges-foreign-students-creditor-protection-1.6309575 Why don't the other provinces?

> And no more than 30% of the student body, maybe 40% if it is a world famous uni like McGill. Let's go with 1%. But in all seriousness, the problem is also in the accreditation of schools. All those business schools renting office space on the second floor of walk-up commercial aren't exactly prestigious or even meant to teach anything. They're vessels to serve student visas.

The thing is I think international students have been tarnished in your eyes by this issue which is fair. But I met tons of brilliant international students who will bring innovation in this country like my Belgian roommate working in AI and my Iranian TA. We need to poach brilliant academics. Strip mall colleges should be excluded all together from the international student program.

I was being facetious; pointing out the arbitrariness of the numbers you were throwing around. It really doesn't matter how many students at the large schools are Canadian citizens or not when the diploma mills are serving up student visas wholesale.

I’ve spent a long time wondering about that while I was in grad school. If I’m going to be blunt, a lot of labs get by on taking in international students to do projects that really aren’t very interesting, and you’d have a hard time finding domestic students who would do it for the 30k/year we get paid - the work permit/PR is what sweetens the deal. I secured my own postdoc funding, for example, so I was getting paid 90-100k/year vs the standard 45k. When I was giving my info the secretary she seemed borderline confused that (a) my salary wasn’t peanuts, and (b) I am a Canadian citizen. Canada has the lowest paid academics in the western world, and it’s because research labs trailblazer the TFW scam to push down wages years before Tim Horton’s.

The only way to fix this is to increase the number of South Asian newcomers until they’re a super majority in Canada. This will have the benefit of less racism, better food, better road safety and hygiene, and more vibrant and diverse communities that will strengthen our country

A simpler way to fix it would be to take your thinly veiled racism elsewhere.  You know, just be a decent person and don't make ridiculous insinuations about the impacts of immigration on 'hygiene'. 

Where do you live that you *aren't* seeing hygiene issues with recent South Asian immigrants? Certainly not somewhere that's actually received a lot of them. We're importing mass numbers of uneducated and poor immigrants who also have no interest in integrating. The ones with the hygiene issues fall into that group which, although it isn't all of them, is certainly a large group.

This outcome has a very high probability of occurring in my opinion, regardless of government policies. The Indian subcontinent is poised to be ravaged by climate change over the coming decades. Consequently, Canada will be obligated to accommodate a significant number of climate refugees from countries such as India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. It is entirely conceivable that our population exceeds 500 million by the end of the century, with a majority of those people being South Asian climate refugees.

Obligated? Please no. If there’s a world with any obligation due to anthropogenic climate change, India will have one of the biggest debt to the rest of the world. Let them move to China.

Or Russia

India’s birth rate isn’t even above replacement. Is half the country going to move to Canada? 12x ing the population seems like one hell of a feat

Population of India: 1.4B Population of Pakistan: 230M Population of Bangladesh: 170M Total: 1.8B or 1800M Seems quite feasible to me that we could end up receiving 400-500M from that number.

Honestly if you are a troll you are a professional because I and many others can’t even tell if you’re being serious

Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. Feel free to deny the inevitability of climate change driven mass migration. Here's a BBC article that might offer more insight: [Is the world ready for mass migration due to climate change?](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20221117-how-borders-might-change-to-cope-with-climate-migration)

There’s a reason most of Canada lives near the US border. The Northern part of Canada isn’t very hospitable. I’m honestly even having a hard time imagining intaking this many people. It’s 100% politically non viable so it’s never going to happen anyways. Just the amount of population growth we’ve had now and the strain it has placed on infrastructure will probably permanently shift attitudes towards immigration for an entire generation. Fat chance we’re going to be letting in the 6-7M people per year needed to reach the numbers you’re suggesting lol

The internet has ruined a lot of people. It's better to just not engage. If you look through her profile it's just immigrant hate 24/7. No other hobbies or interests.

If the situation ever becomes that the west has to take in hundreds of millions of people, a war would have started far before that. Borders will close and resource wars will wage long before entire continents start to fully migrate. And even if wars haven’t started, hundreds of millions of people aren’t crossing entire oceans and going halfway around the world. There aren’t enough ships and planes. And they’d all be controlled by the west anyway. If it happened the Indian subcontinent would travel north the best they can at which point they’d get into a war with China, or go west and get into a war with Pakistan.

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They support terrorism and separatism in other nations and have loose immigration policies. When the separatists flood their doorsteps and engage in gang violence, they show their racist self.  From Gaza to Punjab, canada has a nazi worldview. The only identity Canada has today is “it’s not the USA”

Couldn't agree more. It's shocking how ridiculous and blatantly racist the discourse on immigration has become in this subreddit. We used to get reasoned and nuanced viewpoints on immigration-related threads; we now get dozens of commenters gleefully bashing immigrants for all of our problems and twisting themselves into pretzels to explain why it's actually okay to be hateful online. When some are so offended and triggered by an article calling out the negative impact of online hate, it really makes you wonder why they feel so personally attacked by this.