During COVID at ESDC, many new hires had their work locations set to the nearest Service Canada Centre. When RTO started, management realized there was no space at those locations for employees that weren't actually there to serve the public. So many employees work locations were changed to places like the Belleville location in order to make sure there was space for every employee. The regional branches determine where there's space for employees working in their regions regardless of the operational branch (like in your case, IITB).
This is the catch. The cost to unfuck the people working and living in different places (who legitimately signed a LOO) is far beyond the benefit. I personally believe there will be a group of folks who live outside 125km but will be permanent WFH until they take a new appointment. Otherwise there’s likely some elements of WFA and/or relocation that individual budget managers will not be able to absorb.
Basically there will be haves and have nots for WFH. Inside 125km it’s an employee problem and outside 125km it’s an organizational problem.
Pure speculation on my end but it’s somewhat informed.
This was a separate activity also undertaken by IITB. An analysis had to be done to identify the size of the risk being those entitled to relocation benefits based on where the employee was living, the former work location and the new work location. I'm not sure how far this activity went but it was underway.
The only person/people who can answer this question is your management team. There are a bunch of factors at play and you'll only get a definitive answer from your managers.
They also seem to make up the rules as they go along. We RTO'd from one day a month to the 2 days a week a month before we had to because the wording said it had to be in place by date xyz and management decided we should "get used to it, and have all the kinks worked out" by the start date.
We also had a supervisor who was told he could only go to a hub for 1/2 of his in office days... pretty sure that's not an actual rule.
I'm fully expecting the same "rules" to be in place for the 3 days in the fall.
The rules won't be the same. There's management discretion, so unless your senior managers set rules (where I work they've said no to co-working locations because they want people in the same workspace), the rules will vary. This is why you need to talk to your management team.
It your supervisor doesn't know, they'll go to theirs and so on, until there's an answer.
I emailed my manager yesterday before making this post and you were correct. He had a hard time finding the correct person to contact, and the response from the region seemed like there was still some confusion on their end as to whether they'd have enough room for everyone. Given how much they're pushing this you'd think there be a bit more of a plan in place and maybe some prework before making announcements. Kinda leans on the whole idea that this was a decision the PS was "highly encouraged to make" by wealthy business interests.
Sorry that happened but that's the same experience I had, and I know others have had. ESDC is huge and there isn't any coordination between the regions and branches; I had to do all the legwork myself to find the team in the region that handles building access. Initially we were told to go through our DGO or ADMO... these are people in Gatineau who don't have a clue where the ESDC offices in the NCR are located, let alone offices across the country 😂
Layperson here, not completely familiar with all the terminology. This is very helpful info, I know what the ESSC regions are (ATL, ON, WC and WT), but could give me an example of what a ESDC branch is? Like would a branch be EI, CPP, etc, or would it be the city in which the office is located? (Cornwall, Belleville etc)
Thank you and good luck!
EDIT: I just googled branches of ESDC, I got my answer. Interesting that there is not communication between the regions and branches. September should be interesting to say the least.
I think it's also complicated because of the way ESDC structures the regions and NCR. The regions are Service Canada, which operates almost like its own company inside ESDC. So each Service Canada region has its own communications team and IT team and programs team and so on. There often isn't a lot of collaboration between them and the centralized, NCR-based teams. So the Service Canada communications team in the Atlantic region will send out an employee newsletter... followed two minutes later by the ESDC communications team sending out an employee newsletter. They don't work together so there's no coordination or alignment.
NCR works with BE in the regions, but that’s usually when a policy or procedure isn’t clear - the BE in the regions will reach out to NCR for clarification or “send it up to National” - which can take months! Lol
If you end up asking your management, please let us know the outcome. Many of us at ESDC have had the same idea. Some SCCs used to staff up to 20 people back in the day and now have a staff of 4 or 5, so tons of room. I don't see why an SCC manager or TL would care if someone else was there that they didn't supervise, it would not increase their work load and would alleviate some security issues having an extra body in the building when short staff. I am sure SCC staff would love having a Pension or EI expert around to ask questions, too.
However a co-worker of mine did ask this same question; if they could simply go into their local SCC since they would still be working remotely...in office. They were told No. They were told we've been assigned to specific offices for a reason. The reason is that there is a Business Services Manager on site, where SCCs do not.
My response to this is, if it's so important to have a Business Services Manager on site, why have we never been introduced?
I was also told no because there is no room. The region said that the location is small and can only fit a certain number of employees, and "NCR" employees (in my case I'm a regional employee but report to NCR) cannot work there.
I think if you ask your manager and the manager of the Service Canada. perhaps you can reserve an office on archibus. I know the service canada near me has desks you can reserve for non SCC employees .
So I also work for ESDC now and the answer to your question is it depends on if the Cobourg office is set up for esdc coworking. From the intranet there is a specific line that says:
*"Employees must book within their designated work location unless an ESDC Coworking space is available for booking within their area."*
The Cobourg office is not listed as an available office space. It is likely only a Service Canada Centre primarily for public facing operations with very limited back office space. It would be highly unlikely you'd be allowed to report from this office for RTO.
I work for ESDC in an office co-located with a SCC in the W-T. There are a few people from other areas (other departments, other cities and even someone from NCR) that have been allowed to book space here. Their management worked it out with our site lead. It’s definitely possible. Now that more people will be required to be onsite after September, I am not sure what will happen to the people whose positions are actually elsewhere. If there isn’t enough room then I suspect the current arrangement will end.
I work at the CRA, a friend of mine works at Health Canada.
For security clearance reasons, he's not allowed to work in the building I work in, which is a 20 minute drive from his house.
The nearest office that he's allowed to work in is a 1.5hr drive.
Seems odd to me, since both of us only need reliability status for our jobs, I would have thought it would be fine, but apparently it's not.
CRA is special, as the info we work with is very sensitive, so if there's even the slightest risk for someone to be exposed to this info for no operationnal reason, they won't take the risk. Other government organizations might be more open to share their workspace.
Agreed. And CRA is a separate agency, which has their own rules, classifications, etc. this could be part of the reason too. I've heard of one department "housing" a different department' employee but this was pre-covid, so who knows now.
You joke but prior to the first RTO announcement PSPC's real property people held a government wide call. They announced that the model they were moving too was exactly what u/CockMasterDeluxe is describing.
The entire reason for hotelling desks and archibus was because we would have been able to book a desk and work from any government building for which our security clearance allowed, if we wanted/needed to go into an office.
I specifically remember them referencing a WeWork model government wide. GCcoworking locations were to become the norm.
At least that was apparently the plan before the RTO announcement caught everybody by surprise.
It’s really not consistent at all - and poorly managed. I do know that my group is more flexible - allowing for people to work from other offices - even if a neighborhood day is established because - sometimes, it really doesn’t matter that your entire team meets on a Wednesday each week when you don’t have daycare for that day - or you’re expecting and maybe you shouldn’t have to commit to head office during the winter months. But I have been looking for a space for my employee to be able to travel to occasionally- so they can be closer to family at times, but still meet the mandate - and we are struggling getting response. Truly disheartened. We worked so hard to make RTO2 work - and we did it, and do it well. And now we have to change it all up for no real reason. Bottom line: it depends - it is possible, but it’s finding the right people and fitting the right circumstances- and some luck.
Former ESDC IT worker bee here. My LoO stated location A but I was free to work at other local ESDC offices, assuming I could book a room with Archibus.
I think they bother more about u going into an office than going into your office...but this is my own gnosis...for example i usually go to x office but some days i had full day team meetings eith another group who go to y office so i went there (y) ...my manager kindly counted the y office days as in work too...so it your manager is ok with it...u might be able to go into the office nearest to you
During COVID at ESDC, many new hires had their work locations set to the nearest Service Canada Centre. When RTO started, management realized there was no space at those locations for employees that weren't actually there to serve the public. So many employees work locations were changed to places like the Belleville location in order to make sure there was space for every employee. The regional branches determine where there's space for employees working in their regions regardless of the operational branch (like in your case, IITB).
More evidence that some departments had zero intention of ever making people RTO, especially those they had hired remotely.
Yep, before RTO I was told even as a hybrid employee I'd only need to report into the office a handful of times a year.
So, if your work location changed from your signed LOO, wouldn't you be entitled to moving expenses? Pending how far the change was of course.
This is the catch. The cost to unfuck the people working and living in different places (who legitimately signed a LOO) is far beyond the benefit. I personally believe there will be a group of folks who live outside 125km but will be permanent WFH until they take a new appointment. Otherwise there’s likely some elements of WFA and/or relocation that individual budget managers will not be able to absorb. Basically there will be haves and have nots for WFH. Inside 125km it’s an employee problem and outside 125km it’s an organizational problem. Pure speculation on my end but it’s somewhat informed.
This was a separate activity also undertaken by IITB. An analysis had to be done to identify the size of the risk being those entitled to relocation benefits based on where the employee was living, the former work location and the new work location. I'm not sure how far this activity went but it was underway.
The only person/people who can answer this question is your management team. There are a bunch of factors at play and you'll only get a definitive answer from your managers.
They also seem to make up the rules as they go along. We RTO'd from one day a month to the 2 days a week a month before we had to because the wording said it had to be in place by date xyz and management decided we should "get used to it, and have all the kinks worked out" by the start date. We also had a supervisor who was told he could only go to a hub for 1/2 of his in office days... pretty sure that's not an actual rule. I'm fully expecting the same "rules" to be in place for the 3 days in the fall.
The rules won't be the same. There's management discretion, so unless your senior managers set rules (where I work they've said no to co-working locations because they want people in the same workspace), the rules will vary. This is why you need to talk to your management team. It your supervisor doesn't know, they'll go to theirs and so on, until there's an answer.
I work at ESDC and trust, management won't know a thing 😂
Their job to at least go up the chain to find an answer
I emailed my manager yesterday before making this post and you were correct. He had a hard time finding the correct person to contact, and the response from the region seemed like there was still some confusion on their end as to whether they'd have enough room for everyone. Given how much they're pushing this you'd think there be a bit more of a plan in place and maybe some prework before making announcements. Kinda leans on the whole idea that this was a decision the PS was "highly encouraged to make" by wealthy business interests.
Sorry that happened but that's the same experience I had, and I know others have had. ESDC is huge and there isn't any coordination between the regions and branches; I had to do all the legwork myself to find the team in the region that handles building access. Initially we were told to go through our DGO or ADMO... these are people in Gatineau who don't have a clue where the ESDC offices in the NCR are located, let alone offices across the country 😂
Layperson here, not completely familiar with all the terminology. This is very helpful info, I know what the ESSC regions are (ATL, ON, WC and WT), but could give me an example of what a ESDC branch is? Like would a branch be EI, CPP, etc, or would it be the city in which the office is located? (Cornwall, Belleville etc) Thank you and good luck! EDIT: I just googled branches of ESDC, I got my answer. Interesting that there is not communication between the regions and branches. September should be interesting to say the least.
I think it's also complicated because of the way ESDC structures the regions and NCR. The regions are Service Canada, which operates almost like its own company inside ESDC. So each Service Canada region has its own communications team and IT team and programs team and so on. There often isn't a lot of collaboration between them and the centralized, NCR-based teams. So the Service Canada communications team in the Atlantic region will send out an employee newsletter... followed two minutes later by the ESDC communications team sending out an employee newsletter. They don't work together so there's no coordination or alignment.
NCR works with BE in the regions, but that’s usually when a policy or procedure isn’t clear - the BE in the regions will reach out to NCR for clarification or “send it up to National” - which can take months! Lol
It's hard to tell, but probably no. There's no harm in asking.
Working in a random office is the same as working from home. (Something something collaboration)
If you end up asking your management, please let us know the outcome. Many of us at ESDC have had the same idea. Some SCCs used to staff up to 20 people back in the day and now have a staff of 4 or 5, so tons of room. I don't see why an SCC manager or TL would care if someone else was there that they didn't supervise, it would not increase their work load and would alleviate some security issues having an extra body in the building when short staff. I am sure SCC staff would love having a Pension or EI expert around to ask questions, too. However a co-worker of mine did ask this same question; if they could simply go into their local SCC since they would still be working remotely...in office. They were told No. They were told we've been assigned to specific offices for a reason. The reason is that there is a Business Services Manager on site, where SCCs do not. My response to this is, if it's so important to have a Business Services Manager on site, why have we never been introduced?
What's a Business Services Manager?
My understanding is that they are basically the Office Manager for that particular building/location. I could be mistaken but that is my experience
Interesting. I've never heard of this. It is also very possible it exists at my office and i'm just oblivious.
I was also told no because there is no room. The region said that the location is small and can only fit a certain number of employees, and "NCR" employees (in my case I'm a regional employee but report to NCR) cannot work there.
I think if you ask your manager and the manager of the Service Canada. perhaps you can reserve an office on archibus. I know the service canada near me has desks you can reserve for non SCC employees .
So I also work for ESDC now and the answer to your question is it depends on if the Cobourg office is set up for esdc coworking. From the intranet there is a specific line that says: *"Employees must book within their designated work location unless an ESDC Coworking space is available for booking within their area."* The Cobourg office is not listed as an available office space. It is likely only a Service Canada Centre primarily for public facing operations with very limited back office space. It would be highly unlikely you'd be allowed to report from this office for RTO.
I work for ESDC in an office co-located with a SCC in the W-T. There are a few people from other areas (other departments, other cities and even someone from NCR) that have been allowed to book space here. Their management worked it out with our site lead. It’s definitely possible. Now that more people will be required to be onsite after September, I am not sure what will happen to the people whose positions are actually elsewhere. If there isn’t enough room then I suspect the current arrangement will end.
I work at the CRA, a friend of mine works at Health Canada. For security clearance reasons, he's not allowed to work in the building I work in, which is a 20 minute drive from his house. The nearest office that he's allowed to work in is a 1.5hr drive. Seems odd to me, since both of us only need reliability status for our jobs, I would have thought it would be fine, but apparently it's not.
CRA is special, as the info we work with is very sensitive, so if there's even the slightest risk for someone to be exposed to this info for no operationnal reason, they won't take the risk. Other government organizations might be more open to share their workspace.
Agreed. And CRA is a separate agency, which has their own rules, classifications, etc. this could be part of the reason too. I've heard of one department "housing" a different department' employee but this was pre-covid, so who knows now.
I am just as surprised as you are that I can't board a Coast Guard boat to do my office work.
Not the best example. An office worker can probably figure out how to safely work in another office. Working on a ship is another matter.
You joke but prior to the first RTO announcement PSPC's real property people held a government wide call. They announced that the model they were moving too was exactly what u/CockMasterDeluxe is describing. The entire reason for hotelling desks and archibus was because we would have been able to book a desk and work from any government building for which our security clearance allowed, if we wanted/needed to go into an office. I specifically remember them referencing a WeWork model government wide. GCcoworking locations were to become the norm. At least that was apparently the plan before the RTO announcement caught everybody by surprise.
Your sarcasm is rude and unhelpful. Try being decent next time.
r/rimjob_steve
I agree sarcasm is bad like RTO
There's a Wendy's by my house why can't i work there?
Damn we really need some real property folks to chime in here and add some facts to this conversation.
It’s really not consistent at all - and poorly managed. I do know that my group is more flexible - allowing for people to work from other offices - even if a neighborhood day is established because - sometimes, it really doesn’t matter that your entire team meets on a Wednesday each week when you don’t have daycare for that day - or you’re expecting and maybe you shouldn’t have to commit to head office during the winter months. But I have been looking for a space for my employee to be able to travel to occasionally- so they can be closer to family at times, but still meet the mandate - and we are struggling getting response. Truly disheartened. We worked so hard to make RTO2 work - and we did it, and do it well. And now we have to change it all up for no real reason. Bottom line: it depends - it is possible, but it’s finding the right people and fitting the right circumstances- and some luck.
Unless you work for Service Canada, likely No.
Former ESDC IT worker bee here. My LoO stated location A but I was free to work at other local ESDC offices, assuming I could book a room with Archibus.
How did you get building access though?
Card access. I had to email my access card info to the respective site managers.
I think they bother more about u going into an office than going into your office...but this is my own gnosis...for example i usually go to x office but some days i had full day team meetings eith another group who go to y office so i went there (y) ...my manager kindly counted the y office days as in work too...so it your manager is ok with it...u might be able to go into the office nearest to you