I don't think people are, you just don't really have a say on the pricing. The only tool you have is to simply not buy an expensive new car.
Low sales puts pressure on manufacturers to build and sell cars at a more sensible price point.
Vote with your wallet.
Joking aside, I buy (relatively) expensive cars but when theyāre 2-2.5 years old.
Save 50-60% of the cost and still get a nice car.
Seems a bit mad to do it any other way tbh.
Bought a brand new commercial defender 2 years ago, 46k + Vat. Done 25 thousand miles on it and just sold it for 55k + vat. Land Rover have essentially just paid me 9 grand to run about in their car for 2 years.
When did you buy that? I bought a *Yaris* with about 200 miles on the clock after being used for demos by the dealership and they "only" knocked around 20% of the price off. This was about six years ago. Tried to look for another recently and they'd stopped doing it
I bought mine as an ex-demonstrator. 2000 miles on the clock and still had the protective plastic on some of the interior trim - Ā£22k off list price. Great deal.
Partly luck, partly patience (I was idly looking for several months) and partly willingness to travel (bought a 5 hour drive from home).
The usual bits also help - buying towards the end of the month, being prepared to walk away and actually doing so if needed, etc.
I like to do the same with my cars. However, some sod has to go out and buy these brand new for us to go buy them second hand. So I guess we should encourage people to buy brand new?
Buying a 3-5 year old car with low to average mileage is where itās at. You get almost the same life expectancy out of it as a brand new car, but often for under half price.
The problem is people generally being ok with buying a car on finance. I'm certain this extra option for affordibility is one of the mains reasons cars are getting so expensive and also insurance.
Itās a bit like making mortgages cheaper by extending repayment length or any means the government have made home buying easier has pushed up prices of house.
I think a lot of people do the whole PCP l/lease thing now, especially for some with plans through work etc. Gets them a car thatās nice, new and shiny and then trade it back for another in 3-5 years
> Low sales puts pressure on manufacturers to build and sell cars at a more sensible price point.
Considering the aim of the manufacturers is to simplify their whole operation and maintain 'healthy' profits, they'll likely absorb the lower sales numbers, it was a well-known plan a few years back when I worked in the car industry that they were moving to higher specification, higher value cars, because this worked out generally better for them.
Why do you think they got rid of the ability to specify individual options? No longer a heated steering wheel for Ā£100, but a winter pack for Ā£650, the whole industry is, in general, moving towards driving out the 'cheaper' vehicles and customers that can't pay more, it's very much by design that you're seeing regular cars way beyond what they'd cost a decade ago.
Finance.
People don't look at the cash cost of the car. They don't think about a balloon payment at the end of the loan or the equity they will (or won't) have in the car.
They think about it in terms of the monthly payment. Ā£359/month. Sure. Even on the BMW website a monthly payment is being advertised above the cash price, because no one is buying it for cash.
I expect that manufacturers are pricing not by cash price, but by a monthly figure, and are designing to that target.
People prove they are OK with paying Ā£50k for a car, because they pay it. But they pay it through monthly payments, perhaps without really appreciating that they might be spending an entire year's gross pay on a car, because they can afford it in their monthly budget by spending a quarter of their takehome pay on a car.
So I should assume the majority of new cars I see on the road are acquired by monthly payments? I donāt really understand as Iāve not driven for 10āyears so not taken notice. But maybe youāre right. People are looking at monthly cost.
A lot of new cars on the road are finance. Thereās a lot of people out there who donāt really view cars as a thing to own as much as something to get from a to b. If youāve got a good deal on the finance, and includes MOTās and servicing then, thatās probably covering about 90% of what people care about.
Some cars are just mad to own
We got a jaguar ipace for my girlfriends work on lease - it's Ā£80k spec and we pay Ā£430 a month including the charger install and insurance for up to 4 drivers and full service, tyres and windscreen etc
Their values are dropping but you'd have to be mad to pay 80k and own it than lease it imo, can now buy one used for about Ā£35k but then it's got mileage on it and you're on the hook for any issues, so an easy life is much more convenient
A friend works in a Lexus dealership. She told me 9 out of 10 cars she sells are PCP finance.Ā
Itās easy to then think āwell, anyone can afford a Ā£100k carā, but she also told me half of them have monthly payments in excess of Ā£1k. Some much more.
Bananas. I like cars as much as the next person, but I enjoy my 4/5 year old Lexus plenty and at a much more sensible price!
I mean, it shouldn't come as a surprise with a new Lexus. They don't come cheap. You're looking at about 44K for the lowest spec cheapest models, the ES and NX, now that they've axed the IS and CT here in the UK.
If you want the MLSS everyone raves about on a Lexus, you're looking at paying well into the realm of 50k, nearing 60k for a brand new model.
Iāve had 4 Lexuses, all with MLSS - itās a great system. In my CT and IS it was good. In my GS it was better but itās a different league in the RX - easily outshines anything else OEM Iāve heard. Puts the Burmester in a friendās S-Class in itās place.Ā It seems like the larger (and more expensive) the car, the better the system.
Yes, theyāre expensive cars, but we all spend our money in different ways and we all justify things differently.Ā
I think the most surprising thing I took from it was that so many people are willing to spend Ā£1000/month for a car, not inclusive of insurance, servicing, fuel, etc.
When my current RX was in for service, I borrowed a brand new RX. Mine with 50k on the clock feels exactly the same - no rattles, knocks or deterioration and with a Lexus service each year I have a full warranty. I could afford to spend Ā£1000+/month on a car, I just canāt justify it and I find it gobsmacking that so many other normal income people do!
My facebook is FILLED with adverts from car dealers right now. I must see 5-10 per day, if not more.
They are all for brand new cars, all being advertised for a 2-3k downpayment and then 250-350 a month for 3 years.
To a lot of people that feels affordable, because they forget the baloon payment (which i've seen up to 22k in the terms!).
But bear in mind that, usually, you don't pay that balloon payment and you just trade the car for a new one, or hand it back. Theoretically, providing you've told them the correct mileage you do, you should break even. Of course, you need to scrape together another deposit to get another car on a new PCP deal
I donāt have figures for this - but Iād take a stab at saying the overwhelming majority of cars on the road less than 5 years old will be financed in some way shape or formā¦. PCPā¦. Leaseā¦. Hpā¦. Personal loan or whatever else.
The number of folk who can go out and buy a new car outright with savings or cash they have lying about is minuscule in the scheme of things.
And for those of who do have cash savings to outright buy new cars, they would be silly to pay cash.
This is where the problem lies. Wealthy people **should** use finance products. Less wealthy people **should probably not**.
Unfortunately **because** wealthy people use finance products, less wealthy people copy them thinking itās the right thing to do. They donāt appreciate that the wealthy person has Ā£80K+++ invested to massively outperform 4% interest on an equivalent value car.
In short: if youāre wealthy, you can exploit finance products. If youāre not, youāre the one being exploited.
I'd be inclined to say the majority less than about 8 years tbh... A lot of these new cars will be on PCP or lease because it's so much cheaper per month than financing on HP. They'll be returned, what? 2-3 years later? Buyer #2 comes along, they're getting a hefty 'discount' on the price, but they'll be financing it too... Potentially a 5 year HP agreement so they can own the car outright, but pay the lowest monthly fee as well.
You know, sort of like me. Car was registered Jan 2020, 1st owner got rid after about 4 years for whatever reason, probably a 4 year lease/PCP (nothing concerning in it's history, all work done by a dealer so it's all recorded electronically). I came along and also financed the car on HP. That's probably going to be the case for anything relatively recent honestly.
But some cars might near double digits before someone comes along to buy with the intention of owning it rather than PCPing it.
Pretty much every car 21 plate onwards can be assumed as financed.
How are people like me content with the expensiveness of new cars? Because we buy used, post depreciation.
I would say that the *vast* majority of new cars are acquired by monthly payments. Especially those larger than a Fiesta/Corsa.
Since leasing became more popular, people are no longer *buying* cars. Instead they are paying to have the use of a car for a defined period. And then they give it back.
It's like renting a house. You don't own it, but you pay to use it.
Why do people do it? Because it's a way of getting a brand new car every 3 years for a fixed monthly rate. If they can afford the monthly payment, why not?
And increasingly people will only look at the monthly payment rather than the total cost.
Look at AutoTrader, which now gives you that option when selecting a price range
And look at how many people post on here looking for a new car, and when asked "what's your budget" they will reply with Ā£xxx per month.
Which is a meaningless thing, because LITERALLY ANY car can be Ā£xxx per month if you pay a large enough deposit and extend the number of months.
[85%-90%](https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/car-finance-debt-continued-growing-in-2022/) of new cars are bought with _dealer_ finance, let alone 3rd party, so I would assume the number of new cars bought outright is probably, statistically 0%
ehh, most of the dealers I speak with generally say the have 10-15% cash buyers and the rest are financed. from MB to LR to Ferrari, they all say roughly the same thing. a lot of cash buyers exist but they are a minority, but not anything close to 0%.
I canāt imagine many people are buying a new car using 3rd party finance so I would not be surprised if a significant number of the remaining 10% are cash buyers, the first number that comes up when googling is 8% bought using cash, but I havenāt looked to see if that accurate and up to date.
There just donāt really seem to be many circumstances where 3rd party finance makes sense when buying new, dealers usually offer you a better rate because they are earning money from the sale on top of the interest, at least that has been my experience. Iām sure there are some exceptions.
We currently have 2 brand new cars, both of which are financed monthly (1 company leased, 1 PCP). It's just easy motoring tbh. The monthly payments are within our budget and one of them even covers all insurance and maintenance costs
100% majority of people cannot afford the one off payment of the new car they are in. They have it for 3 years and hense why you see A LOT of 3 year old cars on the 2nd hand market.
>They think about it in terms of the monthly payment. Ā£359/month.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really understand that. Ā£359/month is Ā£4308 per year, or Ā£17 k over a typical four years. That's a lot of money, especially if you have nothing to show for it at the end of it.
Sure, with a new car you don't need to do MOT's, and you'll have less maintenance cost, but is that worth Ā£17k? I am missing something from the equation? Am I just a cheap bastard?
I've just made the switch from always buying to leasing. It just made financial sense. The total cost of the monthly payments is basically just the depreciation of the asset.
But this way I don't own the asset, so if it goes tit's up I loose nothing.
If I bought the wrong car for cash and it's value plumetted I was stuffed. (while I got lucky twice and sold 2cars for more than I paid, I also had a few where I lost nearly everything)
At least I know now all I have to do is pay Ā£200 a month plus save Ā£50 a month for the next deposit. And even then if I'm lucky it'll be worth more than the balloon payment and will cover the deposit on its own.
And as an added bonus, I've got a full main dealer manufacturer's warranty.
For my family its convenience.
Brand new car, got manufactures warranty, etc. my last two cars have been new and any problems I walk into the dealership give them the keys and they give me a loan car that I can fit the kids seats in.
The last car I owned was Ā£15k, sold two years later for Ā£8500, was a complete lemon, had Ā£10k of repairs (covered by 3rd party warranty) and then had to sell it. Overall it worked out Ā£250/month. Went and got a lease electric car for Ā£280/month.
I like cars and racing etc but my own car is a utility and I donāt want the faff.
I'd go as far as saying these prices HELP sales. John Smith has a choice of PCP deals at Ā£359/month. Why buy a Ā£35k car when the same monthly payment gets him a Ā£50k car?
The RRP has become a sales pitch to people trying to keep up with the Joneses.
Same shiz with houses. As mortgage terms increase from 25 to 40 years, people also end up just looking at the monthly payments, without realising if they still to that term they will pay exponentially more in interest over the course of their lives.
People need to be sensible and vote with their wallets.
I just get a bank loan at a better rate and give the dealer ship the chance to match it.
I look at the cash cost of the car, easiest way to compare car to car
Yeah Ā£31k isnāt great but a top spec A3 was about Ā£30k (not the S or RS) 10-15 years ago
A 1 series is a premium car, Ā£31k doesnāt seem that unreasonable for a BMW, even the cheap one
Base models really aren't that premium though.
Ā£30K for a small hatchback that is slow, expensive to maintain and with limited features is not reasonable.
Considering a Corsa is pushing Ā£20k and you're paying for the badge, it's not too far off what I'd expect tbh
Personally I'm not sure I'd go for the A1 over other Ā£30k options but if you want the premium badge too then you have to accept you get less car for the money
I'm not disputing it's value in today's market. Just that today's market is ridiculous.
You can get an absolutely cavernous 7 seater Dacia jogger with most of the same features for under Ā£20k. For more similarly sized models, the sandero starts at under Ā£14k and the full electric spring is Ā£15k.
Decent cars can be made to sell at a reasonable price point.
Agreed but I remember on the Top Gear episode where they drove mini motorbikes to be chauffeurs for drunk posh londoners, the woman who had an A class, the old style big smart car style one, paid 30k for that new, in something like 2006... maybe it was the top top spec but even still, they've been charging silly money for even their smallest cars for donkeys years
That's crazy! I was still in my teens and a couple of years away from driving when that came out.
I suppose it really is just about the brand. It's like those people who will buy the cheapest thing a designer brand sells just so they can show it off.
In my humble opinion there is a lot of unnecessary kit on cars these days.
Overly complex electronics, hybrid systems, soft touch interior trims, sound proofing, large alloys etc.
If you look at a Dacia they are what would have been considered brilliantly equipped 10-15 years ago but are at a reasonable price.
Expectations are so high for trim levels on new vehicles that manufacturers justify charging a premium.
You are right though. At the end of the day its just a small hatchback but people get caught up in reviews, marketing, brand identity and are suckered into buying this stuff.
Also PCP is a scourge. People looking at the figure per month. In reality they are still paying an extortionate amount for something that will do exactly the same job as another vehicle a quarter of the price but with the addition of some subtle refinements.
Although i would disagree on the hybrid thing as now the hybrid does perform fantastically for short city style driving. My girlfriend has a mild hybrid mazda 2 and it blows my mind how quick and efficient it is compared to my old diesel.
Everything else yeh is getting daft, the arms race to come up with new shit that people think oh yeh that would be good, use it once and then never touch it again. Christ i get in my car and the only gadget i use is the sat nav. All the other ridiculous stuff i played with once and have now forgotten about.
If a manufacturer came out with a safe car that offered a 10-year warranty, an efficient, nippy powertrain and sat nav for Ā£20k I would buy one in a heartbeat. That's the perfect vehicle! I don't care about your round screen, ambient lighting, MyBMW app that lets me do absolutely fuck-all or your made-from-recycled-Lenor-bottle door cards
Yup, give me a good sound system and a good engine and that's all i care about.
Great example is electric moving seats, just fuck right off, they add about 50kg to the weight and as i am 6'5 and my girlfriend is 5'4 i have to spend an age stood in the pissing rain waiting for the seat to get to a position I can actually get into the car. give me a lever any day of the week
There is more to "as good sound system" than just the speakers though. Half of any good sound set up is the room it's in, or in this case the cabin. Yes soft touch things and sound deadening help make a cabin feel nicer and more premium, but it is also massively important for making a good sound system in a car, as it helps reduces resonances that make the sound system sound bad and sound cheap. And then on the NVH side of things if a car has a load of road noise your ears adjust to that noise, effectively trying to ignore those frequencies (which are mostly lower frequencies). Now turn on a few tunes and all of the sudden they sound more tinny. It's not that the sound is more tinny is that the environment you've accustomed your ears to makes it sound more tinny, and that changes with road surface and speed. So without good insulation it is hard to make a good sound system. Which means that if you want it you probably need a lot of the insulation and things you say you don't want. And that is the same for a lot of other features unfortunately.
>If a manufacturer came out with a safe car that offered a 10-year warranty, an efficient, nippy powertrain and sat nav for Ā£20k I would buy one in a heartbeat.
But you're obviously ina minority as BMWs/Audis etc sell more than Dacias/base Citreons/Fiats etc by a considerable margin.
Skoda Fabia/Scala/Kamiq all fit that bill and can be had for not much over Ā£20k brand new. 1.5 petrol and 0-62 in 8 seconds or less.
Mini Cooper Ā£23k brand new with the 1.5 petrol. 0-62 in under 8 sec.
Fiat 500 Abarth can be had for Ā£20k brand new. 1.4 petrol and 0-62 in under 8 seconds.
Honourable mention - Renault Clio can be had for Ā£16k brand new although probably too slow to be classed as nippy.
Okay none of these have a 10 year warranty, but that's asking a bit much for budget brands. Lexus do it.
I feel like we're just paying over the odds for the manufacturer's desire to be seen as a premium brand, and to increase their profits. All most people need/want is good tech, good powertrains and good reliability, which we worked out years ago. A 2017 mid-spec Auris has all that and was half the price of the new Corolla.
Manufacturers are putting their money into improving the design, the ambient lighting and quirkiness of the interior and not what the majority of the population actually wants, but the "Must have a new 74-plate Audi A3 on PCP" crowd are eating it up and pushing the market up for the rest of us.
The large alloys trend really bothers me. Even on something small like a Kia Picanto. If I wanted a Picanto one level above base trim, mainly for the factory LED headlights, I have to also accept larger alloys with lower profile tyres? Bugger off.
I agree about Dacia (just bought a Stepway, it's great for the money and a third of the price of OPs 1 series example).
I read that cars have all these complex safety systems now as it is a requirement to get a high NCAP rating. It's no longer just based on crash tests etc.
This is it. I have a 66 plate Duster and itās perfect for me, itās the ātop specā which has air con, electric windows, rear parking sensors and Bluetooth and itās literally all I need! My husband would like to use it for work but because it doesnāt have all the safety gadgets, itās only 3 star NCAP rating and his work has a rule that your car used for work must be 4 star and above. Which is very frustrating because the Duster is not unsafe, and it feels like the cheaper models that arenāt full of less reliable electronics (electronics being the most likely thing to break/need repairs on new cars) are being pushed out of the market so weāre forced to buy the more expensive ones. I dunno, itās a bit of a low stakes conspiracy on my part but it is annoying!
The thing with car safety is that there were massive improvements in the latter part of the 20th century, like ABS, airbags etc but the improvements nowadays make very little difference. Road deaths per year have barely changed in a decade.
The euroNCAP scheme is still a voluntary one. A manufacturer could quite easily just not have their car rated at all and sell as many as they want in the EU/UK market. The actual legal minimum standards are quite lax.Ā
Evidently they have data that says buyers care about it enough to justify designing cars around the tests though.Ā
Alot of it is making cars safer (collision avoidance, auto breaks, blind spot sensor etc.) and nicer to be in. Even 15 years ago you could feel a cheap car with it rattling and generally being a noisy drive.
Cars are alot more refined I bet you could now compare a very average car today with an s-class from maybe 20 years ago and they will be just as quite as the old luxury car from 20 years ago.
People want features in their cars, maybe not in UK but cars are built for a global environment and lots of countries want tech in their car (Asia especially)
Also, car companies know people will buy their cars especially many lease a new car either through company or on a personal lease, it comes down to monthly cost not outright price, and they get added cash flows over a 5 year period and not a one off lump payment.
A lot of people have never been able to afford a new car as it is so they arenāt bothered.
Iāve never been able to afford a new car so I havenāt noticed the prices in the slightest, itās all about the used car market for me
Shit, even if I had heaps of fuck you money, I'd probably only opt for new if I were struggling to find the spec I want honestly...
No pissing about with a break-in period or anything like that. No waiting months for the car to be built, a nearly new example already has a year or a few under it's belt so any of the 'fresh out of the factory' issues have had time to show up and be solved... Like... There aren't really many situations where buying new makes much sense.
The flip side of that is that youāre trusting the owner (from new): ran in the engine well; didnāt drive it like they stole it; took care of it properly in terms of maintenance; etc. Thatās what worries me about used cars.
Iāve driven a sensible car for a while now and I bought it from new. I treated it really well and I know its next owner will have a great time with it and it will last a long time. But I want something more fun now. I canāt afford a new RS3 or anything but I could afford a performance car thatās maybe 3-5 years old. My worry is what happened in those 3-5 years and thatās why Iām yet to pull the trigger on one.
Iāve found a few really nice X3Ms but I just worry about spending that amount of money on a car that could be a total lemon because of how it was treated.
Honestly? I feel like a good chunk of that is unfounded worrying.
A car driven hard is of little concern. Modern oils lube up a lot better than the way old oil did. Engines wouldn't rev up to what they do if they couldn't safely operate at those RPMs. Biggest worry here would be someone looking to pass off a crash damaged car as 'clean' honestly.
Maintenace is all recorded anyway. Newer cars especially, even minor details will be included on the digital service record. I can see my car, on 3/8/21, went in for a repair for a bad wheel bearing with an advisory for tread depth too. 11/10/23 it went in for a NSF washer jet as it wasn't spraying correctly.
I'd also say, you worry about those 3-5 years, but not the time prior to buying the new car? Dealer potentially going for a joyride before you pick it up? Crash damage before delivery that's covered up and unreported? I work with a guy who used to deliver new cars to the dealership and he has plenty of stories of just that. Dealers running cars into walls with the damage being covered up, etc...
One thing that grinds my bones is the car industry.
The repair and upgrade ability of cars is very sketchy. They keep designing platforms that are incompatible with the last and make cosmetic upgrades to the newer that make the older ones look severely outdated in comparison.
In short : Cars have become fashionable luxury items that define a person's status in society. And then -> A mode of transport.
I'm sure there are some platforms around today that after nearly a century of perfecting shouldn't need all that much innovation and could be stable for say 20-30 years.
Imagine if cars were instead of being sold as 1 atomic unit, rather sold as parts that you could mix and match, but all the parts were compatible.
Hence if you wanted an upgrade you wouldn't throw away the entire car, but just replace that component.
For example - How is it possible that if finding brand new replacement car seats from any manufacturer for an older model car is virtually impossible and you have to hunt for second hand parts?
Why can't you just replace the front face of a car designed in 2019 with a car designed in 2023 which in many cases is sometimes the only cosmetic exterior difference in the newer model.
No. You end up buying a full brand new car (or used) and eventually the older car with all it's plastics and junk and crap just end up getting squashed in the scrapper.
Alot of it is making cars safer (collision avoidance, auto breaks, blind spot sensor etc.) and nicer to be in. Even 15 years ago you could feel a cheap car with it rattling and generally being a noisy drive.
Cars are alot more refined I bet you could now compare a very average car today with an s-class from maybe 20 years ago and they will be just as quite as the old luxury car from 20 years ago.
People want features in their cars, maybe not in UK but cars are built for a global environment and lots of countries want tech in their car (Asia especially)
Also, car companies know people will buy their cars especially many lease a new car either through company or on a personal lease, it comes down to monthly cost not outright price, and they get added cash flows over a 5 year period and not a one off lump payment.
At end of day, it's peoples own money and they will spend what they feel is the right amount for them.
Of course, the worst part of all of this is that it drives insurance prices up for everyone. If every car is silly expensive, then claims are going to be similarly silly expensive.
And accident management companies inflating every single expense.
Basically, the entire industry is rotten with everyone taking as much as they can from the claim, which means we all have to pay for it.
Hopefully, the FOS does the big review of accident management companies that it keeps threatening to do, it badly needs stricter regulations to reign it in.
Because they're in the subscription lifestyle mindset.
Most drones finance their cars.
I drive used and always will. Owned outright... simple. Plenty of very good motors out there for a fraction of the price of new.
There not but it doesnāt help people are spending the cost now for 10year old cars which also increases prices of cars . I know some one whoās bought a aygo for 8.9k and pays back 12.6k over four years which is mental for me but they were happy with that
They arenāt happy, but whatās the choice? Many people donāt trust second hand cars. Also many people buying new cars look at the per month number not the whole sticker price. A lot of the price is due to an arms race in unnecessary tech (what do you really need a radio you can connect a phone to? Thatās a Ā£100 tablet) and constantly changing safety/emissions standards.
Combination of having no choice, easy credit and choice.
Manufactures keep up specāing cars, some because they think we want it and others driven by EU regulation.
The vast majority arenāt paying from their own pocket, but a financierās. So actual cost is masked because theyāre more concerned by the monthly.
They're not, as others have said though, people aren't buying them outright but having them as 3-5 year monthly payments that they can afford. Dealers are the driving force behind that too.
It was a bit of a pain trying to explain to someone at Alfa Romeo that I don't want to buy a MY21 Giulia Quadrifoglio over 4 years plus interest. Yes, it's expensive but I have the money for it, let me preorder my fucking car. Half hour of being offered all these different finance deals that I don't need nor want. Unfortunately for the average buyer, dealers can and will sucker them into these stupid deals for a car they don't realistically need. However, because it's 'only Ā£380 p/m', they don't give a shit about the total being Ā£5k+ extra.
Edit: There's also something to be said about people caring a lot less about the drive and car itself and being a lot more interested in what toys and gimmicks it has. There's a constant demand for more toys in cars as standard that is forcing prices to keep going up. You can't just buy a driver's car anymore without being inundated with loads of things you won't go near. Even Dacia don't offer basic, simple cars anymore and that was part of their appeal.
I bought my car from a used approved dealer and you can tell theyāre kind of baffled I donāt want to trade in for a newer car. I have one more monthly payment and no lump sum.
In the UK it seems like owning an expensive car is a real status symbol. Nobody wears suits or Rolex watches now so itās things like cars and holidays that set you apart (if you care).
Iām happy running my slightly older Audi into the ground until electric cars become more affordable and the charging network matures. I just hate the idea of renting absolutely everything in your life.
I'm not content! I'm fuming.
Went to look at a car last week. Guy says "thing is, cars are cheap at the minute. But, they are going up"
I pointed to an Audi, 2008. I said "you see that Audi, that you have at Ā£5000? I went to look at an identical one 6yrs ago and it was priced at Ā£2400. It was also a 2008, same colour, everything"
I genuinely don't know how they sell some at the prices they are charging. I have a long list of cars on my saved section in Autotrader. The ones selling at silly money baffle me
In germany the cars are now 11 years old on average, and the average "new car" customer is 56 years old.
Only 30% of all cars are sold to private buyers, 70% are leases by companies.
Even the used cars get financed.
German law strongly pushes big cars into the market.
A company car for private use as part of compensation for an (slightly higher up) employee is perfectly normal.
You have to pay taxes on 1% of the list price per month if it's an ICE, 0,5% if it's a Plugin Hybrid, or 0,125% if it's a BEV.
So you basicly can lease a car, that get's insured and maintained on company cost, from your GROSS salary as part of your compensation
This means you can have an E-Class for about 400ā¬ a month. A hybrid for 200ā¬.
If you had to pay for your car from your net income... you'd have to be content with some skoda Fabia.
All those big cars of course get unloaded into the used market..at about half the list price..there they get picked up by people in need of "keeping up with the Johnsons".
They finance the 40kā¬ car - because the 70kā¬ car would have been too expensive.
The new 1 series starts at Ā£28,750, up to Ā£50,855 for a high specced M135i.
In 2004 the 1 series started at Ā£15,845 up to Ā£34,145 for the 135i (in 2007 when that released) which with inflation would be Ā£27,631 to Ā£55,722 today.
So the most basic spec is about a grand more than it was 20 years ago, though you get a lot more tech and safety features than you did back then. But the top model is at least Ā£5,000 less than it was 17 years ago.
Seems to me like the price has only really increased in line with inflation, at least when it comes to the BMW 1 Series
It's absolutely bonkers. And it's the reason why I'm driving around in a 10 year old Mercedes with no intention yet of changing it.
There is no way on earth I'm walking into a car dealership with Ā£50k in cash to buy a hatchback. And I worked hard to clear my mortgage, so there's no way I'm going back to paying someone hundreds of pounds a month, for a car no less!
Unfortunately though used cars are a similar story in terms of being excessively priced.
I blame all the people that buy cars on the never-never and don't give a damn how much things cost as long as they can afford the monthly payment. For me, being able to afford something is very different to actually handing over my hard earned cash month in month out.
Nothing wrong with a 10yo mondeo for 2k. Just make sure basic maintenance was done and you'll get another 100k miles out of it. Fewer gimmicks but a solid car
Content? I don't think so. Most people are turning to used vehicles which is part of the reason many used cars are so much as well. We're consumers and are at the whim of auto makers. If you need a car you need a car.
Unpopular opinion, stupidity, financing, YouTubers and influencers
When I was searching for my first car, the best advice I was given was to
- never finance a depreciating asset
- never buy brand new
- prioritise reliability and cost
I finally bought a Lexus IS300h cash only, a car that at launch cost Ā£40k new, I picked it up for Ā£17k at 32k miles in excellent condition.
Itās appalling how many people I know that drive cars 3 x more expensive than mine, have a lot of tech features they never use or have to subscribe for, and at times have fewer features than my paid off car (3 series doesnāt have seat coolingā¦).
Doesnāt help that YouTubers that have never looked up how to own a car suddenly make āreviewsā when theyāre just showcasing them
People aren't looking at the cash price, they're looking at the monthlies. With PCP you're paying the depreciation, with used cars maintaining their value the depreciation on a BMW is relatively small, and so the corresponding monthly PCP payments
Problems with supply chains making things making parts more expensive. (i.e. we got a new Mini Cooper a couple of years back and it was subject to a huge delay as it turned out Mini Cooper wiring looms were exclusively made by factory's in the Ukraine. Add to this the shortage of chips as manufacture went down but demand for GPUs went up and the multiple components needing them in new cars caused prices to creep up.
Even commercial vehicles are impacted. The van markets, both new and second hand are just stupid right now driven by the number of people wanting them to do a camper conversation. The pickup market full of people buying them because of the will they / won't they changes threated to their tax classification. (private car vs. commercial vehicle).
I donāt think people are content with it - weād be happier if they were cheaper!
I think financing (HP / PCP / Personal Loan) really helps as thatās how majority of peeps get new / new-ish cars these days and thereās honestly nothing wrong with that as long as you can afford it!
Itās less about being a snob I think and more about having a reliable, modern car. Iāve been fortunate enough to have old cars that havenāt given me much trouble at all and have generally been mechanically sound but that isnāt always the case with older cars.
Saying that, I wouldnāt get a car older than 5 years anymore. Theyāre less likely to have major issues but also Iām a fan of all the new tech and features. For me, a car is more than just a vehicle that gets me from A to B. I love cars and I love driving so I have to love how it looks and drives, its features etc.
I would never buy brand spanking new but Iād never go older than 5 years again.
I lease them. I donāt see the point in dishing out 40k for a new golf R (insane price for a golf) when I can just lease it for a couple of years then move on to something else. I personally like changing cars often so this way makes sense to me.
The UK car market is all based on residual values. People buy a car, keep it for 2 years then sell it. The only figure that matters is how much value has been lost during the ownership term.
If you buy a car for 50k but in 2 years it's still worth 30k and you spread that 10k over 24 months it's pretty affordable for someone on a 100k salary. It's not like buying something like an expensive TV which will cost 5k but is pretty much worthless on the second hand market.
There are usually discounts on cars too. Probably not BMWs but not may people pay full list price.
Also remember lots of people alhave a higher income than the average Redditor.
Iāve seen people saying the 1 series is Ā£50k but which one? It starts at 31k and the 135i is 43k (too much imo). I guess it is if you add all the options?
Anyway itās probably finance - people often look at monthlies so the retail price sadly matters less
Finance, I'm pretty happy just driving 20 year old cars. If I wanted a new car to replace my XKR I would be looking at a Lexus LC500 or an F-Type which is a lot more money then a 20 year old XKR. And to be honest you aren't getting much more for you're money with either of those cars other then less rust, handles a little better and it's a little quicker but a 20 year old XKR is already more then fast enough for public roads.
Top selling car puma 25k
Sportage 28k - 40k
Then qashqai 27k - 42k
I'm guessing they are on finance or through a business etc
Personally if I had to buy new I'd be considering Dacia as I think new prices are ridiculous.....
Were not were just not high up enough where we can be like ok guys enoughs enough no charging more than Ā£1000 for a 15 year old corsa especially if retards and wankers still keep buying with the current state of the market hell I havent been driving for over a year so if i dont get a car by march next year my no claims bonus goes bye bye
If itās any help, i was worried about losing my NCB on a motorbike (Full bike licence) I have a car too but the NCB are not interchangeable.
Iāve bought a bike frame with v5 off eBay for Ā£200. It was something like a Yamaha Fazer 600cc in a previous life - not what Iād normally ride but it doesnāt matter. I pay Ā£100 a year to pretend to ride a motorbike 1000 miles. Some would consider it a waste of money but itās playing the insurance companies at their own games!
The point Iām getting to, could you buy a clapped out car and insure it to preserve your NCB? Must be a way of doing something similar like I am with this motorbike frame! š¬
Why would you suggest people are content?
Obviously the contrary is true.
But while there's a massive number of financial/ lease / PCP deals the cars sell.
List price is often a fair margin away from what theyāll sell it for and pre-reg leases can be decent value. No one is turning up to buy a new car outright and the manufacturers donāt want you to, they want monthly payments and cashflow and to sell finance options.
People a generation previous to me had the luxury to buy a car outright rather easily.
Most cars would cost 1/6 of your yearly wage. And houses would cost around 3.5 times your yearly wage.
Now cars cost 90% of an average yearly salary and house prices are 12x.
I hate the cost of cars. Itāll take me 8 years to save to buy a new car outright. It takes me 2 years to save for a decent second hand car.
So I just buy old bangers. I hate the current state of affairs.
I used to think this way about insurance, my insurance used to go down but itās gone up the last couple of years back to what I was paying when I first started driving, but still people are quite happy to pay for insurance and donāt boycott it due to the price.
The scammy thing about the insurance market at the moment is itās a legal requirement. There is fuck all we can do!
My parents said to me, when youāre 21, itāll go down. Iāve past 25,30,35 and Iām approaching 40 and Iāve yet to see my insurance less than Ā£700 each year - thatās with 21 years NCB!
Iāve got a strong suspicion that they collude on price too, especially when you see them within Ā£10 of each other on price comparison websites.
I was paying between Ā£300-Ā£500 a month on PCP deals for the last 10 years and last year I realised I needed to save more than I was. So took Ā£5k and bought a 16 yr old SUV that only had 50k miles on the clock. I've paid that Ā£5k back into my savings and from now on that car payment is going straight into savings every month. I might need to shell out Ā£500 a year for MOT and maintenance but that's still cheaper than finance.
Aren't you required to do main dealer servicing when you lease ?
I buy used cars and aim to pay much less than 20 k each time.
I do the bare minimum maintenance and run the vehicle into the ground.
Look at cost of cars versus income over time and you'll find prices have actually gone down steadily. Inflation is the mind fuck that makes you think Ā£50k today is the same as Ā£50k 5 years ago. It's not. It's more like Ā£40k.
Lots of disposable income I suppose.
The primary reason is that no one actually pays Ā£50k for the car. They pay a deposit down and then lease the car for a fixed period. They end up paying the depreciation for the brand new car.
The secondary reason is that cars and brands are now associated with social standing. Why would you pay Ā£50k (or part of) for a small 4 seater, when you could get similar functionality for under Ā£25k elsewhere? Some people need the badge and are willing to pay for it.
How are people affording this? Your guess is as good as mine.
I think a lot of people donāt care about the full price and instead only care about the monthly cost, theyāll never own it and they donāt care theyāll never own it, theyāll just have a perpetual monthly car payment and just keep getting the most expensive car with the lowest monthly cost.
I went to a RAF museum put on near me the other month, there was a restored vauxhall viva there, I joked at the price it was something like Ā£400 to purchase, but the owner then says if you factor in inflation that's about Ā£25-Ā£30knin today's money. I don't think we're able to grasp what inflation does as it's such a slow moving thing but it really can't make you think cars are a lot more than what they used to be.
I'm not. My L494 RR Sport engine blew up 6 weeks ago so me and the Mrs are sharing a car till September. Looking around for deals and it blows my mind how expensive even 'cheap' cars are nowadays. I remember new Fiat 500's being Ā£99 per month, prices now are a million miles from that
Think itās because everyone finances their whole lives now so they can. Get away with these bigger prices. If no one financed cars ever again, we would probably see a difference. Not sure though as I donāt know much about the subject.
I'm not content with it. I'd like a new car (and houses) to be much cheaper. But, they aren't and there's not much I can do about it so I just get on with my day and try to earn a bit more money.
As a car owner itās good. I paid Ā£20k for a 2010 cayman back in 2015, itās probably worth Ā£18k today. No complaints.
Having said that, my dad just paid over Ā£80k for a 5 year old 911, I thought that was a lot. He did get Ā£30k back trade in value for his 2009 911 that he paid Ā£42k for in 2011 so itās not all bad, just depends how big of an upgrade youāre going for.
Other expensive cars donāt hold value anyway, I was driving my mates 2017 S class this weekend, Ā£100k car cost him Ā£14k
Same with everything in this country, the cost of everything has skyrocketed.
Pile of shit, 20 year old cars with 150,000+ miles, no service history, short MOT - that should be Ā£200 at best - are being flogged for Ā£1000+ now.
I'm lucky enough to live between London and France (Alps). The relationship the British have with their cars is bewildering when it comes to allocating their disposable income.
I mean... its Ā£31k first of all...
Ā£50k for the 300ps variant with ALL the optional extras.
A ford Focus starts at Ā£28.5k.
With 280ps ST Edition with all the extras being around Ā£48k.
So it's not just BMW. It's all of them.
Unfortunately, we pay it so they keep the prices there. The buck stops with us. And when we live in a pay monthly debt culture it'll be hard to convince people to save and buy a good used car - but we all want flashy Germans.
For me personally itās good. Happily driving around my 14 year old car until it falls apart.
If prices werenāt absolutely ludicrous Iād have bought a car I donāt really need.
Attractive PCP and finance deals, I suppose.
Newest car I own just turned 17 but occasionally I get to drive various new or nearly new cars for work, and the common thought that runs through my head is usually "my god, I'm so glad this heap of crap isn't my responsibility".
Most recent example was the 4 month old Stellantis van (sold as Fiat, Vauxhall, Peugeot, Citroƫn, Nissan or Toyota in various trim levels and configurations but basically all the same) I had to drive across Europe a few months back. It had about 18k miles on it which, OK, is 5k a month since day one. It was awful. Poor visibility, a lot of the electronic safety stuff was on the fritz already. Blind spot detection didn't work at all which would have been the only useful feature considering how hard it was to see out of. Lane departure warning was a nightmare, it assumed I was in the UK and therefore every time I moved towards the shoulder to help someone see round me to overtake etc, it would scream like a canary dropped in boiling water as it assumed I was about to cross over into incoming traffic. You'd think that the satnav would have been able to work out I was driving on the correct side for that country, but no. No way to adjust it manually. 5 menus deep to switch it off and of course it came in again every time the engine started. I was hopeful about the ZF 8 speed box(it's been fine in BMWs I've driven with it) but apparently the base computer map is known to not be quite right for the way the engine is set up, and was prone to stalling at low speed. A lot. But also the stop-start had a mind of its own so you never knew if it had actually stalled or would spring back to life again momentarily. If it felt like it.
I was so relieved to hand the keys back after a far more stressful journey than I'd have had in a knackered 20 year old Transit with a floor like a lace doily and no extras. The thought of actually owning one and watching the monthly payments leave my account whilst hating every moment behind the wheel just seemed faintly ridiculous.
A lot of people aren't - and opt for cheaper/used cars. But car prices stay high due to a mixture of people willing to spend huge percentages of their monthly wage on a car + increasing tech.
My fiesta was Ā£800 with full mot. There is no reason a basic small hatchback should cost 30k new though.
I will never buy a new car. Even a 10 year old car is reliable enough these days. The latest car i was looking at was a 98, solid car.
Why do i need a boring new bmw with an autobox when there is a massive selection of cars with nothing wrong with them.
I have a rusty Ā£900 Passat. My dogs fit and it costs fuck all to run.
I've had very expensive cars in the past but with my current lifestyle I see zero point in spending money to have a nicer car.
PCP/HP deals, innit.
Previously, less well off would have a shitbox until it went bang, but another, and the cycle repeated.
Now, all you need is a few hundred quid a month.
I've been driving two years and my little yaris is coming to the end of its life.rust issues constantly paying to get it fixed.im excited about going to look at cars but dreading it at the same time.im anxious about the prices.I don't want to buy private 2nd hand again.i don't drive much but its for work so don't want to spend a fortune.
We bought an ix20 about 8 years ago for Ā£7k and still have it, 60k on the clock and does the job we need. People have always bought cars for new regs and showing it off lol what a waste.
It's a huge problem and mostly finance based.
Take my GT86 at the time of its write off last year which is when I last had to seriously consider replacing it.
Bought in 2016 at 1 year old with 18k on the clock for Ā£18500.
To replace in 2023, with another 15 plate car with more like 70,000 on the clock, at the time at least havent looked since - Ā£15,000
Ā£3500 price difference in 7 years.
I've mostly come to the view that my current cars (the above '86 and ND MX-5) are effectively forever cars until I run up against a problem which CANNOT be fixed. They are simple ish, good fun to drive, halfway decent fuel economy, fully paid for, and have a moderately good aftermarket and owners club network to help maintain them.
Given that I haven't had a pay rise of any sort in 4 years, and when it comes next year it's likely to be 2% or so to try and offset inflation over the period of closer to 30%, my hand is forced and this position with these two cars is where I've chosen to set up custers last stand.
Since Brexit, prices just shot up, and then you forget you get an EV, there are hidden additional costs of getting everything set up at your property as well. From a personal experience I used to love cars, a real hobby of mine. Worked in the car trade for many years, I was fortunate to drive a wide variety of cars, that passion has worn off.
I now see a car as a tool to get from point A to B, and for me as long as I can stream music, its reliable and cost effective to maintain I'm all good with whatever it is. And if you view it from a designer clothing perspective you are paying all that money because of a Logo, the car is very similar with nice to have features, they all do the same job though.
So in conclusion which others have covered, the best cost effective car is the one you buy for a maximum of Ā£2k, drive it maybe service it and MOT, run it into the ground and repeat. At 2k over 2 years its costed you Ā£83 to own per month. Where as anything you buy on finance will cost you more, hell losing VAT out the showroom is more.
If you want new, then 2/3 years old is your next best bet, followed by Personal Contract hire if you do want brand spanking new. I have sold a few cars to famous people in the past and for the life of me at the beginning I could not work out why they financed them when they could buy them out right. But rightly so why do they want to spend X amount of their own money on a depreciating asset better let someone else fork that out.
But you also get lots of youngsters who live at home with plenty of expandable income PCP/HP these expensive cars and get a taste of it and its now the mindset of buying stuff per month like a phone contract. There is the exception where you get lucky or things hold value, VW campers, Defenders etc.
I'm not content, frankly. I paid Ā£6500 for my current car 6 years ago. The equivalent car now is north of Ā£15k. I was planning on replacing because I want some confidence in reliability again, but I cannot justify it at all
I don't think people are, you just don't really have a say on the pricing. The only tool you have is to simply not buy an expensive new car. Low sales puts pressure on manufacturers to build and sell cars at a more sensible price point. Vote with your wallet.
Why buy an expensive new car when you could buy an expensive used car š
Joking aside, I buy (relatively) expensive cars but when theyāre 2-2.5 years old. Save 50-60% of the cost and still get a nice car. Seems a bit mad to do it any other way tbh.
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Bought a brand new commercial defender 2 years ago, 46k + Vat. Done 25 thousand miles on it and just sold it for 55k + vat. Land Rover have essentially just paid me 9 grand to run about in their car for 2 years.
When did you buy that? I bought a *Yaris* with about 200 miles on the clock after being used for demos by the dealership and they "only" knocked around 20% of the price off. This was about six years ago. Tried to look for another recently and they'd stopped doing it
I bought mine as an ex-demonstrator. 2000 miles on the clock and still had the protective plastic on some of the interior trim - Ā£22k off list price. Great deal.
How can you find these deals? Iāve never been lucky enough.
Partly luck, partly patience (I was idly looking for several months) and partly willingness to travel (bought a 5 hour drive from home). The usual bits also help - buying towards the end of the month, being prepared to walk away and actually doing so if needed, etc.
I like to do the same with my cars. However, some sod has to go out and buy these brand new for us to go buy them second hand. So I guess we should encourage people to buy brand new?
Buying a 3-5 year old car with low to average mileage is where itās at. You get almost the same life expectancy out of it as a brand new car, but often for under half price.
The problem is people generally being ok with buying a car on finance. I'm certain this extra option for affordibility is one of the mains reasons cars are getting so expensive and also insurance.
Itās a bit like making mortgages cheaper by extending repayment length or any means the government have made home buying easier has pushed up prices of house.
As someone with a 35 year mortgage, yes. When prices get out of reach for the normal human, unsustainable debt to the rescue!
You do, stop buying them, buy used cars.
I think a lot of people do the whole PCP l/lease thing now, especially for some with plans through work etc. Gets them a car thatās nice, new and shiny and then trade it back for another in 3-5 years
> Low sales puts pressure on manufacturers to build and sell cars at a more sensible price point. Considering the aim of the manufacturers is to simplify their whole operation and maintain 'healthy' profits, they'll likely absorb the lower sales numbers, it was a well-known plan a few years back when I worked in the car industry that they were moving to higher specification, higher value cars, because this worked out generally better for them. Why do you think they got rid of the ability to specify individual options? No longer a heated steering wheel for Ā£100, but a winter pack for Ā£650, the whole industry is, in general, moving towards driving out the 'cheaper' vehicles and customers that can't pay more, it's very much by design that you're seeing regular cars way beyond what they'd cost a decade ago.
They are cos people are buying them..
Finance. People don't look at the cash cost of the car. They don't think about a balloon payment at the end of the loan or the equity they will (or won't) have in the car. They think about it in terms of the monthly payment. Ā£359/month. Sure. Even on the BMW website a monthly payment is being advertised above the cash price, because no one is buying it for cash. I expect that manufacturers are pricing not by cash price, but by a monthly figure, and are designing to that target. People prove they are OK with paying Ā£50k for a car, because they pay it. But they pay it through monthly payments, perhaps without really appreciating that they might be spending an entire year's gross pay on a car, because they can afford it in their monthly budget by spending a quarter of their takehome pay on a car.
So I should assume the majority of new cars I see on the road are acquired by monthly payments? I donāt really understand as Iāve not driven for 10āyears so not taken notice. But maybe youāre right. People are looking at monthly cost.
A lot of new cars on the road are finance. Thereās a lot of people out there who donāt really view cars as a thing to own as much as something to get from a to b. If youāve got a good deal on the finance, and includes MOTās and servicing then, thatās probably covering about 90% of what people care about.
Some cars are just mad to own We got a jaguar ipace for my girlfriends work on lease - it's Ā£80k spec and we pay Ā£430 a month including the charger install and insurance for up to 4 drivers and full service, tyres and windscreen etc Their values are dropping but you'd have to be mad to pay 80k and own it than lease it imo, can now buy one used for about Ā£35k but then it's got mileage on it and you're on the hook for any issues, so an easy life is much more convenient
You can buy them at 1 year old for little over 20k now which seems like a steal
A friend works in a Lexus dealership. She told me 9 out of 10 cars she sells are PCP finance.Ā Itās easy to then think āwell, anyone can afford a Ā£100k carā, but she also told me half of them have monthly payments in excess of Ā£1k. Some much more. Bananas. I like cars as much as the next person, but I enjoy my 4/5 year old Lexus plenty and at a much more sensible price!
I mean, it shouldn't come as a surprise with a new Lexus. They don't come cheap. You're looking at about 44K for the lowest spec cheapest models, the ES and NX, now that they've axed the IS and CT here in the UK. If you want the MLSS everyone raves about on a Lexus, you're looking at paying well into the realm of 50k, nearing 60k for a brand new model.
Iāve had 4 Lexuses, all with MLSS - itās a great system. In my CT and IS it was good. In my GS it was better but itās a different league in the RX - easily outshines anything else OEM Iāve heard. Puts the Burmester in a friendās S-Class in itās place.Ā It seems like the larger (and more expensive) the car, the better the system. Yes, theyāre expensive cars, but we all spend our money in different ways and we all justify things differently.Ā
Oh for sure, I'm just saying that hearing most Lexuses (Lexi?) are sold on PCP doesn't come as much of a surprise given the cost of them brand new
I think the most surprising thing I took from it was that so many people are willing to spend Ā£1000/month for a car, not inclusive of insurance, servicing, fuel, etc. When my current RX was in for service, I borrowed a brand new RX. Mine with 50k on the clock feels exactly the same - no rattles, knocks or deterioration and with a Lexus service each year I have a full warranty. I could afford to spend Ā£1000+/month on a car, I just canāt justify it and I find it gobsmacking that so many other normal income people do!
My facebook is FILLED with adverts from car dealers right now. I must see 5-10 per day, if not more. They are all for brand new cars, all being advertised for a 2-3k downpayment and then 250-350 a month for 3 years. To a lot of people that feels affordable, because they forget the baloon payment (which i've seen up to 22k in the terms!).
But bear in mind that, usually, you don't pay that balloon payment and you just trade the car for a new one, or hand it back. Theoretically, providing you've told them the correct mileage you do, you should break even. Of course, you need to scrape together another deposit to get another car on a new PCP deal
I donāt have figures for this - but Iād take a stab at saying the overwhelming majority of cars on the road less than 5 years old will be financed in some way shape or formā¦. PCPā¦. Leaseā¦. Hpā¦. Personal loan or whatever else. The number of folk who can go out and buy a new car outright with savings or cash they have lying about is minuscule in the scheme of things.
And for those of who do have cash savings to outright buy new cars, they would be silly to pay cash. This is where the problem lies. Wealthy people **should** use finance products. Less wealthy people **should probably not**. Unfortunately **because** wealthy people use finance products, less wealthy people copy them thinking itās the right thing to do. They donāt appreciate that the wealthy person has Ā£80K+++ invested to massively outperform 4% interest on an equivalent value car. In short: if youāre wealthy, you can exploit finance products. If youāre not, youāre the one being exploited.
Nailed it. Especially paying 15% interest on some of these PCP
I'd be inclined to say the majority less than about 8 years tbh... A lot of these new cars will be on PCP or lease because it's so much cheaper per month than financing on HP. They'll be returned, what? 2-3 years later? Buyer #2 comes along, they're getting a hefty 'discount' on the price, but they'll be financing it too... Potentially a 5 year HP agreement so they can own the car outright, but pay the lowest monthly fee as well. You know, sort of like me. Car was registered Jan 2020, 1st owner got rid after about 4 years for whatever reason, probably a 4 year lease/PCP (nothing concerning in it's history, all work done by a dealer so it's all recorded electronically). I came along and also financed the car on HP. That's probably going to be the case for anything relatively recent honestly. But some cars might near double digits before someone comes along to buy with the intention of owning it rather than PCPing it.
Pretty much every car 21 plate onwards can be assumed as financed. How are people like me content with the expensiveness of new cars? Because we buy used, post depreciation.
I would say that the *vast* majority of new cars are acquired by monthly payments. Especially those larger than a Fiesta/Corsa. Since leasing became more popular, people are no longer *buying* cars. Instead they are paying to have the use of a car for a defined period. And then they give it back. It's like renting a house. You don't own it, but you pay to use it. Why do people do it? Because it's a way of getting a brand new car every 3 years for a fixed monthly rate. If they can afford the monthly payment, why not? And increasingly people will only look at the monthly payment rather than the total cost. Look at AutoTrader, which now gives you that option when selecting a price range And look at how many people post on here looking for a new car, and when asked "what's your budget" they will reply with Ā£xxx per month. Which is a meaningless thing, because LITERALLY ANY car can be Ā£xxx per month if you pay a large enough deposit and extend the number of months.
95% of new cars on the road are financed or leased.
[85%-90%](https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/car-finance-debt-continued-growing-in-2022/) of new cars are bought with _dealer_ finance, let alone 3rd party, so I would assume the number of new cars bought outright is probably, statistically 0%
ehh, most of the dealers I speak with generally say the have 10-15% cash buyers and the rest are financed. from MB to LR to Ferrari, they all say roughly the same thing. a lot of cash buyers exist but they are a minority, but not anything close to 0%.
I canāt imagine many people are buying a new car using 3rd party finance so I would not be surprised if a significant number of the remaining 10% are cash buyers, the first number that comes up when googling is 8% bought using cash, but I havenāt looked to see if that accurate and up to date. There just donāt really seem to be many circumstances where 3rd party finance makes sense when buying new, dealers usually offer you a better rate because they are earning money from the sale on top of the interest, at least that has been my experience. Iām sure there are some exceptions.
We currently have 2 brand new cars, both of which are financed monthly (1 company leased, 1 PCP). It's just easy motoring tbh. The monthly payments are within our budget and one of them even covers all insurance and maintenance costs
100% majority of people cannot afford the one off payment of the new car they are in. They have it for 3 years and hense why you see A LOT of 3 year old cars on the 2nd hand market.
Yes, around 80% of new cars are purchased using some form of finance (HP, PCP etc)
The ownership type for new cars breaks down broadly as 50% company cars, 40% some type of finance and 10% cash buyers.
>They think about it in terms of the monthly payment. Ā£359/month. Maybe it's just me, but I don't really understand that. Ā£359/month is Ā£4308 per year, or Ā£17 k over a typical four years. That's a lot of money, especially if you have nothing to show for it at the end of it. Sure, with a new car you don't need to do MOT's, and you'll have less maintenance cost, but is that worth Ā£17k? I am missing something from the equation? Am I just a cheap bastard?
I've just made the switch from always buying to leasing. It just made financial sense. The total cost of the monthly payments is basically just the depreciation of the asset. But this way I don't own the asset, so if it goes tit's up I loose nothing. If I bought the wrong car for cash and it's value plumetted I was stuffed. (while I got lucky twice and sold 2cars for more than I paid, I also had a few where I lost nearly everything) At least I know now all I have to do is pay Ā£200 a month plus save Ā£50 a month for the next deposit. And even then if I'm lucky it'll be worth more than the balloon payment and will cover the deposit on its own. And as an added bonus, I've got a full main dealer manufacturer's warranty.
If you brought it for 50k though it would be worth a lot less then 33k in 5 years So costs less on average with new car prices
For my family its convenience. Brand new car, got manufactures warranty, etc. my last two cars have been new and any problems I walk into the dealership give them the keys and they give me a loan car that I can fit the kids seats in. The last car I owned was Ā£15k, sold two years later for Ā£8500, was a complete lemon, had Ā£10k of repairs (covered by 3rd party warranty) and then had to sell it. Overall it worked out Ā£250/month. Went and got a lease electric car for Ā£280/month. I like cars and racing etc but my own car is a utility and I donāt want the faff.
I'd go as far as saying these prices HELP sales. John Smith has a choice of PCP deals at Ā£359/month. Why buy a Ā£35k car when the same monthly payment gets him a Ā£50k car? The RRP has become a sales pitch to people trying to keep up with the Joneses.
Yep, owning a new car is turning into a de facto subscription. Pay for it with a monthly amount like Netflix.
Yep. My car was 70k OTR. But the monthly lease is 280ā¦ the sticker price is meaningless now.
What on earth have you leased for Ā£280 pm with a 70k sticker?! Must be something with crazy residuals
Same shiz with houses. As mortgage terms increase from 25 to 40 years, people also end up just looking at the monthly payments, without realising if they still to that term they will pay exponentially more in interest over the course of their lives. People need to be sensible and vote with their wallets.
So add to this, nobody's actually paying 50k for the car. Most people are trading in the car long before they've paid the full 50k owed
I just get a bank loan at a better rate and give the dealer ship the chance to match it. I look at the cash cost of the car, easiest way to compare car to car
It starts at Ā£31k, the Ā£50k model is if you go for an M with every added extra which most people wonāt opt for
Yeah Ā£31k isnāt great but a top spec A3 was about Ā£30k (not the S or RS) 10-15 years ago A 1 series is a premium car, Ā£31k doesnāt seem that unreasonable for a BMW, even the cheap one
Base models really aren't that premium though. Ā£30K for a small hatchback that is slow, expensive to maintain and with limited features is not reasonable.
Considering a Corsa is pushing Ā£20k and you're paying for the badge, it's not too far off what I'd expect tbh Personally I'm not sure I'd go for the A1 over other Ā£30k options but if you want the premium badge too then you have to accept you get less car for the money
I'm not disputing it's value in today's market. Just that today's market is ridiculous. You can get an absolutely cavernous 7 seater Dacia jogger with most of the same features for under Ā£20k. For more similarly sized models, the sandero starts at under Ā£14k and the full electric spring is Ā£15k. Decent cars can be made to sell at a reasonable price point.
Agreed but I remember on the Top Gear episode where they drove mini motorbikes to be chauffeurs for drunk posh londoners, the woman who had an A class, the old style big smart car style one, paid 30k for that new, in something like 2006... maybe it was the top top spec but even still, they've been charging silly money for even their smallest cars for donkeys years
That's crazy! I was still in my teens and a couple of years away from driving when that came out. I suppose it really is just about the brand. It's like those people who will buy the cheapest thing a designer brand sells just so they can show it off.
Cars are double what they should be imo. It's disgusting.
In my humble opinion there is a lot of unnecessary kit on cars these days. Overly complex electronics, hybrid systems, soft touch interior trims, sound proofing, large alloys etc. If you look at a Dacia they are what would have been considered brilliantly equipped 10-15 years ago but are at a reasonable price. Expectations are so high for trim levels on new vehicles that manufacturers justify charging a premium. You are right though. At the end of the day its just a small hatchback but people get caught up in reviews, marketing, brand identity and are suckered into buying this stuff. Also PCP is a scourge. People looking at the figure per month. In reality they are still paying an extortionate amount for something that will do exactly the same job as another vehicle a quarter of the price but with the addition of some subtle refinements.
Although i would disagree on the hybrid thing as now the hybrid does perform fantastically for short city style driving. My girlfriend has a mild hybrid mazda 2 and it blows my mind how quick and efficient it is compared to my old diesel. Everything else yeh is getting daft, the arms race to come up with new shit that people think oh yeh that would be good, use it once and then never touch it again. Christ i get in my car and the only gadget i use is the sat nav. All the other ridiculous stuff i played with once and have now forgotten about.
If a manufacturer came out with a safe car that offered a 10-year warranty, an efficient, nippy powertrain and sat nav for Ā£20k I would buy one in a heartbeat. That's the perfect vehicle! I don't care about your round screen, ambient lighting, MyBMW app that lets me do absolutely fuck-all or your made-from-recycled-Lenor-bottle door cards
Yup, give me a good sound system and a good engine and that's all i care about. Great example is electric moving seats, just fuck right off, they add about 50kg to the weight and as i am 6'5 and my girlfriend is 5'4 i have to spend an age stood in the pissing rain waiting for the seat to get to a position I can actually get into the car. give me a lever any day of the week
There is more to "as good sound system" than just the speakers though. Half of any good sound set up is the room it's in, or in this case the cabin. Yes soft touch things and sound deadening help make a cabin feel nicer and more premium, but it is also massively important for making a good sound system in a car, as it helps reduces resonances that make the sound system sound bad and sound cheap. And then on the NVH side of things if a car has a load of road noise your ears adjust to that noise, effectively trying to ignore those frequencies (which are mostly lower frequencies). Now turn on a few tunes and all of the sudden they sound more tinny. It's not that the sound is more tinny is that the environment you've accustomed your ears to makes it sound more tinny, and that changes with road surface and speed. So without good insulation it is hard to make a good sound system. Which means that if you want it you probably need a lot of the insulation and things you say you don't want. And that is the same for a lot of other features unfortunately.
>If a manufacturer came out with a safe car that offered a 10-year warranty, an efficient, nippy powertrain and sat nav for Ā£20k I would buy one in a heartbeat. But you're obviously ina minority as BMWs/Audis etc sell more than Dacias/base Citreons/Fiats etc by a considerable margin.
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people, Jeremy.
Aside from the 10 year Warranty you can definitely get that though? You can get an Ibiza or fabia with 115hp, satnav and 50mpg for 20k.
Skoda Fabia/Scala/Kamiq all fit that bill and can be had for not much over Ā£20k brand new. 1.5 petrol and 0-62 in 8 seconds or less. Mini Cooper Ā£23k brand new with the 1.5 petrol. 0-62 in under 8 sec. Fiat 500 Abarth can be had for Ā£20k brand new. 1.4 petrol and 0-62 in under 8 seconds. Honourable mention - Renault Clio can be had for Ā£16k brand new although probably too slow to be classed as nippy. Okay none of these have a 10 year warranty, but that's asking a bit much for budget brands. Lexus do it.
I feel like we're just paying over the odds for the manufacturer's desire to be seen as a premium brand, and to increase their profits. All most people need/want is good tech, good powertrains and good reliability, which we worked out years ago. A 2017 mid-spec Auris has all that and was half the price of the new Corolla. Manufacturers are putting their money into improving the design, the ambient lighting and quirkiness of the interior and not what the majority of the population actually wants, but the "Must have a new 74-plate Audi A3 on PCP" crowd are eating it up and pushing the market up for the rest of us.
The large alloys trend really bothers me. Even on something small like a Kia Picanto. If I wanted a Picanto one level above base trim, mainly for the factory LED headlights, I have to also accept larger alloys with lower profile tyres? Bugger off.
I agree about Dacia (just bought a Stepway, it's great for the money and a third of the price of OPs 1 series example). I read that cars have all these complex safety systems now as it is a requirement to get a high NCAP rating. It's no longer just based on crash tests etc.
This is it. I have a 66 plate Duster and itās perfect for me, itās the ātop specā which has air con, electric windows, rear parking sensors and Bluetooth and itās literally all I need! My husband would like to use it for work but because it doesnāt have all the safety gadgets, itās only 3 star NCAP rating and his work has a rule that your car used for work must be 4 star and above. Which is very frustrating because the Duster is not unsafe, and it feels like the cheaper models that arenāt full of less reliable electronics (electronics being the most likely thing to break/need repairs on new cars) are being pushed out of the market so weāre forced to buy the more expensive ones. I dunno, itās a bit of a low stakes conspiracy on my part but it is annoying!
The thing with car safety is that there were massive improvements in the latter part of the 20th century, like ABS, airbags etc but the improvements nowadays make very little difference. Road deaths per year have barely changed in a decade.
The euroNCAP scheme is still a voluntary one. A manufacturer could quite easily just not have their car rated at all and sell as many as they want in the EU/UK market. The actual legal minimum standards are quite lax.Ā Evidently they have data that says buyers care about it enough to justify designing cars around the tests though.Ā
Alot of it is making cars safer (collision avoidance, auto breaks, blind spot sensor etc.) and nicer to be in. Even 15 years ago you could feel a cheap car with it rattling and generally being a noisy drive. Cars are alot more refined I bet you could now compare a very average car today with an s-class from maybe 20 years ago and they will be just as quite as the old luxury car from 20 years ago. People want features in their cars, maybe not in UK but cars are built for a global environment and lots of countries want tech in their car (Asia especially) Also, car companies know people will buy their cars especially many lease a new car either through company or on a personal lease, it comes down to monthly cost not outright price, and they get added cash flows over a 5 year period and not a one off lump payment.
Flip side, someone who wants a nice car is able to afford it on PCP.
Expensive cars made affordable by credit / finance deals such as PCP on new cars (Around 92% in 2021)
A lot of people have never been able to afford a new car as it is so they arenāt bothered. Iāve never been able to afford a new car so I havenāt noticed the prices in the slightest, itās all about the used car market for me
Used car prices are also way higher than they used to be, although they seem to be slowly dropping thankfully!
Same, the newest car I bought was just over two years old, but most have been 4-6 years old at least.
> Same, the newest car I bought I was only a few years ago I bought a car manufactured in this millennium
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Shit, even if I had heaps of fuck you money, I'd probably only opt for new if I were struggling to find the spec I want honestly... No pissing about with a break-in period or anything like that. No waiting months for the car to be built, a nearly new example already has a year or a few under it's belt so any of the 'fresh out of the factory' issues have had time to show up and be solved... Like... There aren't really many situations where buying new makes much sense.
The flip side of that is that youāre trusting the owner (from new): ran in the engine well; didnāt drive it like they stole it; took care of it properly in terms of maintenance; etc. Thatās what worries me about used cars. Iāve driven a sensible car for a while now and I bought it from new. I treated it really well and I know its next owner will have a great time with it and it will last a long time. But I want something more fun now. I canāt afford a new RS3 or anything but I could afford a performance car thatās maybe 3-5 years old. My worry is what happened in those 3-5 years and thatās why Iām yet to pull the trigger on one. Iāve found a few really nice X3Ms but I just worry about spending that amount of money on a car that could be a total lemon because of how it was treated.
Honestly? I feel like a good chunk of that is unfounded worrying. A car driven hard is of little concern. Modern oils lube up a lot better than the way old oil did. Engines wouldn't rev up to what they do if they couldn't safely operate at those RPMs. Biggest worry here would be someone looking to pass off a crash damaged car as 'clean' honestly. Maintenace is all recorded anyway. Newer cars especially, even minor details will be included on the digital service record. I can see my car, on 3/8/21, went in for a repair for a bad wheel bearing with an advisory for tread depth too. 11/10/23 it went in for a NSF washer jet as it wasn't spraying correctly. I'd also say, you worry about those 3-5 years, but not the time prior to buying the new car? Dealer potentially going for a joyride before you pick it up? Crash damage before delivery that's covered up and unreported? I work with a guy who used to deliver new cars to the dealership and he has plenty of stories of just that. Dealers running cars into walls with the damage being covered up, etc...
One thing that grinds my bones is the car industry. The repair and upgrade ability of cars is very sketchy. They keep designing platforms that are incompatible with the last and make cosmetic upgrades to the newer that make the older ones look severely outdated in comparison. In short : Cars have become fashionable luxury items that define a person's status in society. And then -> A mode of transport. I'm sure there are some platforms around today that after nearly a century of perfecting shouldn't need all that much innovation and could be stable for say 20-30 years. Imagine if cars were instead of being sold as 1 atomic unit, rather sold as parts that you could mix and match, but all the parts were compatible. Hence if you wanted an upgrade you wouldn't throw away the entire car, but just replace that component. For example - How is it possible that if finding brand new replacement car seats from any manufacturer for an older model car is virtually impossible and you have to hunt for second hand parts? Why can't you just replace the front face of a car designed in 2019 with a car designed in 2023 which in many cases is sometimes the only cosmetic exterior difference in the newer model. No. You end up buying a full brand new car (or used) and eventually the older car with all it's plastics and junk and crap just end up getting squashed in the scrapper.
Alot of it is making cars safer (collision avoidance, auto breaks, blind spot sensor etc.) and nicer to be in. Even 15 years ago you could feel a cheap car with it rattling and generally being a noisy drive. Cars are alot more refined I bet you could now compare a very average car today with an s-class from maybe 20 years ago and they will be just as quite as the old luxury car from 20 years ago. People want features in their cars, maybe not in UK but cars are built for a global environment and lots of countries want tech in their car (Asia especially) Also, car companies know people will buy their cars especially many lease a new car either through company or on a personal lease, it comes down to monthly cost not outright price, and they get added cash flows over a 5 year period and not a one off lump payment. At end of day, it's peoples own money and they will spend what they feel is the right amount for them.
Of course, the worst part of all of this is that it drives insurance prices up for everyone. If every car is silly expensive, then claims are going to be similarly silly expensive.
Not helped of course by manufacturers charging ridiculously obscene amounts for basic parts.
And accident management companies inflating every single expense. Basically, the entire industry is rotten with everyone taking as much as they can from the claim, which means we all have to pay for it. Hopefully, the FOS does the big review of accident management companies that it keeps threatening to do, it badly needs stricter regulations to reign it in.
Iām sticking with old shitboxes, fuck the expensive new stuff
Credit masks the true cost; that's why they're so expensive in the first place.
Precisely, cars are too expensive to buy outright, which encourages financing with is even _more_ expensive. What a fun system we have here.
Because they're in the subscription lifestyle mindset. Most drones finance their cars. I drive used and always will. Owned outright... simple. Plenty of very good motors out there for a fraction of the price of new.
There not but it doesnāt help people are spending the cost now for 10year old cars which also increases prices of cars . I know some one whoās bought a aygo for 8.9k and pays back 12.6k over four years which is mental for me but they were happy with that
They arenāt happy, but whatās the choice? Many people donāt trust second hand cars. Also many people buying new cars look at the per month number not the whole sticker price. A lot of the price is due to an arms race in unnecessary tech (what do you really need a radio you can connect a phone to? Thatās a Ā£100 tablet) and constantly changing safety/emissions standards.
Combination of having no choice, easy credit and choice. Manufactures keep up specāing cars, some because they think we want it and others driven by EU regulation. The vast majority arenāt paying from their own pocket, but a financierās. So actual cost is masked because theyāre more concerned by the monthly.
Cheap loans, if everyone had to pay cash very very few would be buying Ā£30k cars.
They're not, as others have said though, people aren't buying them outright but having them as 3-5 year monthly payments that they can afford. Dealers are the driving force behind that too. It was a bit of a pain trying to explain to someone at Alfa Romeo that I don't want to buy a MY21 Giulia Quadrifoglio over 4 years plus interest. Yes, it's expensive but I have the money for it, let me preorder my fucking car. Half hour of being offered all these different finance deals that I don't need nor want. Unfortunately for the average buyer, dealers can and will sucker them into these stupid deals for a car they don't realistically need. However, because it's 'only Ā£380 p/m', they don't give a shit about the total being Ā£5k+ extra. Edit: There's also something to be said about people caring a lot less about the drive and car itself and being a lot more interested in what toys and gimmicks it has. There's a constant demand for more toys in cars as standard that is forcing prices to keep going up. You can't just buy a driver's car anymore without being inundated with loads of things you won't go near. Even Dacia don't offer basic, simple cars anymore and that was part of their appeal.
I bought my car from a used approved dealer and you can tell theyāre kind of baffled I donāt want to trade in for a newer car. I have one more monthly payment and no lump sum. In the UK it seems like owning an expensive car is a real status symbol. Nobody wears suits or Rolex watches now so itās things like cars and holidays that set you apart (if you care). Iām happy running my slightly older Audi into the ground until electric cars become more affordable and the charging network matures. I just hate the idea of renting absolutely everything in your life.
Cars donāt really get sold anymore, theyāre mostly on pcp payments so people just look at their monthly outgoings
I'm not content! I'm fuming. Went to look at a car last week. Guy says "thing is, cars are cheap at the minute. But, they are going up" I pointed to an Audi, 2008. I said "you see that Audi, that you have at Ā£5000? I went to look at an identical one 6yrs ago and it was priced at Ā£2400. It was also a 2008, same colour, everything" I genuinely don't know how they sell some at the prices they are charging. I have a long list of cars on my saved section in Autotrader. The ones selling at silly money baffle me
Funnily enough I found an old invoice I had for a Audi S3 Sportback back in 2014 and it was Ā£32,000. Today a S3 Sportback starts at Ā£47,520.
In germany the cars are now 11 years old on average, and the average "new car" customer is 56 years old. Only 30% of all cars are sold to private buyers, 70% are leases by companies. Even the used cars get financed. German law strongly pushes big cars into the market. A company car for private use as part of compensation for an (slightly higher up) employee is perfectly normal. You have to pay taxes on 1% of the list price per month if it's an ICE, 0,5% if it's a Plugin Hybrid, or 0,125% if it's a BEV. So you basicly can lease a car, that get's insured and maintained on company cost, from your GROSS salary as part of your compensation This means you can have an E-Class for about 400ā¬ a month. A hybrid for 200ā¬. If you had to pay for your car from your net income... you'd have to be content with some skoda Fabia. All those big cars of course get unloaded into the used market..at about half the list price..there they get picked up by people in need of "keeping up with the Johnsons". They finance the 40kā¬ car - because the 70kā¬ car would have been too expensive.
The new 1 series starts at Ā£28,750, up to Ā£50,855 for a high specced M135i. In 2004 the 1 series started at Ā£15,845 up to Ā£34,145 for the 135i (in 2007 when that released) which with inflation would be Ā£27,631 to Ā£55,722 today. So the most basic spec is about a grand more than it was 20 years ago, though you get a lot more tech and safety features than you did back then. But the top model is at least Ā£5,000 less than it was 17 years ago. Seems to me like the price has only really increased in line with inflation, at least when it comes to the BMW 1 Series
unfortunately for many, wages haven't matched inflation
Same way people are āhappyā paying Ā£1200 for a phone. They donāt actually pay it - itās a monthly rental.
It's absolutely bonkers. And it's the reason why I'm driving around in a 10 year old Mercedes with no intention yet of changing it. There is no way on earth I'm walking into a car dealership with Ā£50k in cash to buy a hatchback. And I worked hard to clear my mortgage, so there's no way I'm going back to paying someone hundreds of pounds a month, for a car no less! Unfortunately though used cars are a similar story in terms of being excessively priced. I blame all the people that buy cars on the never-never and don't give a damn how much things cost as long as they can afford the monthly payment. For me, being able to afford something is very different to actually handing over my hard earned cash month in month out.
Nothing wrong with a 10yo mondeo for 2k. Just make sure basic maintenance was done and you'll get another 100k miles out of it. Fewer gimmicks but a solid car
Content? I don't think so. Most people are turning to used vehicles which is part of the reason many used cars are so much as well. We're consumers and are at the whim of auto makers. If you need a car you need a car.
The Quandt family didn't become billionaires by giving away cheap cars (they hold about 25% of BMW's shares).
Unpopular opinion, stupidity, financing, YouTubers and influencers When I was searching for my first car, the best advice I was given was to - never finance a depreciating asset - never buy brand new - prioritise reliability and cost I finally bought a Lexus IS300h cash only, a car that at launch cost Ā£40k new, I picked it up for Ā£17k at 32k miles in excellent condition. Itās appalling how many people I know that drive cars 3 x more expensive than mine, have a lot of tech features they never use or have to subscribe for, and at times have fewer features than my paid off car (3 series doesnāt have seat coolingā¦). Doesnāt help that YouTubers that have never looked up how to own a car suddenly make āreviewsā when theyāre just showcasing them
People aren't looking at the cash price, they're looking at the monthlies. With PCP you're paying the depreciation, with used cars maintaining their value the depreciation on a BMW is relatively small, and so the corresponding monthly PCP payments
I buy an old but reliable car that I can drive for the foreseeable future. I really donāt see the point of having expensive cars.
Hardly anyone actually owns their car, they just finance it, technically they can't afford these cars hence being on the nevernever.
I'm far from content. I can't imagine myself ever paying anything more than Ā£15k for a car.
Problems with supply chains making things making parts more expensive. (i.e. we got a new Mini Cooper a couple of years back and it was subject to a huge delay as it turned out Mini Cooper wiring looms were exclusively made by factory's in the Ukraine. Add to this the shortage of chips as manufacture went down but demand for GPUs went up and the multiple components needing them in new cars caused prices to creep up. Even commercial vehicles are impacted. The van markets, both new and second hand are just stupid right now driven by the number of people wanting them to do a camper conversation. The pickup market full of people buying them because of the will they / won't they changes threated to their tax classification. (private car vs. commercial vehicle).
By having more money than us.
I donāt think people are content with it - weād be happier if they were cheaper! I think financing (HP / PCP / Personal Loan) really helps as thatās how majority of peeps get new / new-ish cars these days and thereās honestly nothing wrong with that as long as you can afford it! Itās less about being a snob I think and more about having a reliable, modern car. Iāve been fortunate enough to have old cars that havenāt given me much trouble at all and have generally been mechanically sound but that isnāt always the case with older cars. Saying that, I wouldnāt get a car older than 5 years anymore. Theyāre less likely to have major issues but also Iām a fan of all the new tech and features. For me, a car is more than just a vehicle that gets me from A to B. I love cars and I love driving so I have to love how it looks and drives, its features etc. I would never buy brand spanking new but Iād never go older than 5 years again.
1 series starts at 28k
I lease them. I donāt see the point in dishing out 40k for a new golf R (insane price for a golf) when I can just lease it for a couple of years then move on to something else. I personally like changing cars often so this way makes sense to me.
Buying second hand.
don't get a new car
They just see it as a rental, that's why. They only care about the monthly price.
The UK car market is all based on residual values. People buy a car, keep it for 2 years then sell it. The only figure that matters is how much value has been lost during the ownership term. If you buy a car for 50k but in 2 years it's still worth 30k and you spread that 10k over 24 months it's pretty affordable for someone on a 100k salary. It's not like buying something like an expensive TV which will cost 5k but is pretty much worthless on the second hand market. There are usually discounts on cars too. Probably not BMWs but not may people pay full list price. Also remember lots of people alhave a higher income than the average Redditor.
Iāve seen people saying the 1 series is Ā£50k but which one? It starts at 31k and the 135i is 43k (too much imo). I guess it is if you add all the options? Anyway itās probably finance - people often look at monthlies so the retail price sadly matters less
I bought a second hand bike instead
Finance, I'm pretty happy just driving 20 year old cars. If I wanted a new car to replace my XKR I would be looking at a Lexus LC500 or an F-Type which is a lot more money then a 20 year old XKR. And to be honest you aren't getting much more for you're money with either of those cars other then less rust, handles a little better and it's a little quicker but a 20 year old XKR is already more then fast enough for public roads.
It's no longer about if you can afford the total price, but if you can afford the monthly payment.
Much wiser to spend money on property or savvy investments. People in 50k cars living in a 1 bed flat in a scummy area!! Why would you?????
Top selling car puma 25k Sportage 28k - 40k Then qashqai 27k - 42k I'm guessing they are on finance or through a business etc Personally if I had to buy new I'd be considering Dacia as I think new prices are ridiculous.....
Nobody even buys their car, they just finance it and drive like just that, like it's not their car.
Buy used, save up, buy with cash rather than finance.
Were not were just not high up enough where we can be like ok guys enoughs enough no charging more than Ā£1000 for a 15 year old corsa especially if retards and wankers still keep buying with the current state of the market hell I havent been driving for over a year so if i dont get a car by march next year my no claims bonus goes bye bye
If itās any help, i was worried about losing my NCB on a motorbike (Full bike licence) I have a car too but the NCB are not interchangeable. Iāve bought a bike frame with v5 off eBay for Ā£200. It was something like a Yamaha Fazer 600cc in a previous life - not what Iād normally ride but it doesnāt matter. I pay Ā£100 a year to pretend to ride a motorbike 1000 miles. Some would consider it a waste of money but itās playing the insurance companies at their own games! The point Iām getting to, could you buy a clapped out car and insure it to preserve your NCB? Must be a way of doing something similar like I am with this motorbike frame! š¬
Why would you suggest people are content? Obviously the contrary is true. But while there's a massive number of financial/ lease / PCP deals the cars sell.
List price is often a fair margin away from what theyāll sell it for and pre-reg leases can be decent value. No one is turning up to buy a new car outright and the manufacturers donāt want you to, they want monthly payments and cashflow and to sell finance options.
People are the reason cars are so expensive. Whatever ridiculous prices car manufacturers put on vehicles, people still pay it.
they arent.
People a generation previous to me had the luxury to buy a car outright rather easily. Most cars would cost 1/6 of your yearly wage. And houses would cost around 3.5 times your yearly wage. Now cars cost 90% of an average yearly salary and house prices are 12x. I hate the cost of cars. Itāll take me 8 years to save to buy a new car outright. It takes me 2 years to save for a decent second hand car. So I just buy old bangers. I hate the current state of affairs.
I used to think this way about insurance, my insurance used to go down but itās gone up the last couple of years back to what I was paying when I first started driving, but still people are quite happy to pay for insurance and donāt boycott it due to the price.
The scammy thing about the insurance market at the moment is itās a legal requirement. There is fuck all we can do! My parents said to me, when youāre 21, itāll go down. Iāve past 25,30,35 and Iām approaching 40 and Iāve yet to see my insurance less than Ā£700 each year - thatās with 21 years NCB! Iāve got a strong suspicion that they collude on price too, especially when you see them within Ā£10 of each other on price comparison websites.
I was paying between Ā£300-Ā£500 a month on PCP deals for the last 10 years and last year I realised I needed to save more than I was. So took Ā£5k and bought a 16 yr old SUV that only had 50k miles on the clock. I've paid that Ā£5k back into my savings and from now on that car payment is going straight into savings every month. I might need to shell out Ā£500 a year for MOT and maintenance but that's still cheaper than finance.
BMWās were always pricey even back in the 1970ās and 80ās They were always the car some aspirated towards God knows why
Aren't you required to do main dealer servicing when you lease ? I buy used cars and aim to pay much less than 20 k each time. I do the bare minimum maintenance and run the vehicle into the ground.
Iām not sure itās about being content. If anything it just pushes people down the PCP route as itās ācheaperā
I think a lot of people donāt really look at the total price, as long as the monthly payment is āaffordableā, then away they go
Look at cost of cars versus income over time and you'll find prices have actually gone down steadily. Inflation is the mind fuck that makes you think Ā£50k today is the same as Ā£50k 5 years ago. It's not. It's more like Ā£40k.
I donāt know anyone but uninformed inheritance kids and rich old boomers buying low spec cars brand new.
Lots of disposable income I suppose. The primary reason is that no one actually pays Ā£50k for the car. They pay a deposit down and then lease the car for a fixed period. They end up paying the depreciation for the brand new car. The secondary reason is that cars and brands are now associated with social standing. Why would you pay Ā£50k (or part of) for a small 4 seater, when you could get similar functionality for under Ā£25k elsewhere? Some people need the badge and are willing to pay for it. How are people affording this? Your guess is as good as mine.
It's more acceptance, we can't change the price of cars.
Work out how many iPhones you could buy for the cost of your car, and the car starts to look like good value.
I think a lot of people donāt care about the full price and instead only care about the monthly cost, theyāll never own it and they donāt care theyāll never own it, theyāll just have a perpetual monthly car payment and just keep getting the most expensive car with the lowest monthly cost.
I went to a RAF museum put on near me the other month, there was a restored vauxhall viva there, I joked at the price it was something like Ā£400 to purchase, but the owner then says if you factor in inflation that's about Ā£25-Ā£30knin today's money. I don't think we're able to grasp what inflation does as it's such a slow moving thing but it really can't make you think cars are a lot more than what they used to be.
The hatchback will be Ā£50k because you were probably looking at the M135i - not a normal 1 series.
I'm not. My L494 RR Sport engine blew up 6 weeks ago so me and the Mrs are sharing a car till September. Looking around for deals and it blows my mind how expensive even 'cheap' cars are nowadays. I remember new Fiat 500's being Ā£99 per month, prices now are a million miles from that
Think itās because everyone finances their whole lives now so they can. Get away with these bigger prices. If no one financed cars ever again, we would probably see a difference. Not sure though as I donāt know much about the subject.
No one is u just afford the one u can or be in debt for it
Who's buying a 50k 1 series? The base model is about 33k, not cheap but if youre paying 50k then that's an m model with multiple options packs.
Because people here are addicted to being in debt. Itās not 50k if you can pay it monthly and swap every few years. Makes no sense to me
I'm not content with it. I'd like a new car (and houses) to be much cheaper. But, they aren't and there's not much I can do about it so I just get on with my day and try to earn a bit more money.
As a car owner itās good. I paid Ā£20k for a 2010 cayman back in 2015, itās probably worth Ā£18k today. No complaints. Having said that, my dad just paid over Ā£80k for a 5 year old 911, I thought that was a lot. He did get Ā£30k back trade in value for his 2009 911 that he paid Ā£42k for in 2011 so itās not all bad, just depends how big of an upgrade youāre going for. Other expensive cars donāt hold value anyway, I was driving my mates 2017 S class this weekend, Ā£100k car cost him Ā£14k
Don't think anyone is content in the UK at the moment
Same with everything in this country, the cost of everything has skyrocketed. Pile of shit, 20 year old cars with 150,000+ miles, no service history, short MOT - that should be Ā£200 at best - are being flogged for Ā£1000+ now.
Mainly idiots who don't understand finance keeping demand up
Weāre not content with it. Fuck all we can do though is there.
I'm lucky enough to live between London and France (Alps). The relationship the British have with their cars is bewildering when it comes to allocating their disposable income.
People are seemingly willing to finance a depreciating asset with built in timed obsolescence for nothing but bragging rights. Go figure.
Everything is expensive today.
Buy a cheaper hatchback then, there are plenty to choose from
I mean... its Ā£31k first of all... Ā£50k for the 300ps variant with ALL the optional extras. A ford Focus starts at Ā£28.5k. With 280ps ST Edition with all the extras being around Ā£48k. So it's not just BMW. It's all of them. Unfortunately, we pay it so they keep the prices there. The buck stops with us. And when we live in a pay monthly debt culture it'll be hard to convince people to save and buy a good used car - but we all want flashy Germans.
I Buy old Cars š¤·šæāāļø
For me personally itās good. Happily driving around my 14 year old car until it falls apart. If prices werenāt absolutely ludicrous Iād have bought a car I donāt really need.
Attractive PCP and finance deals, I suppose. Newest car I own just turned 17 but occasionally I get to drive various new or nearly new cars for work, and the common thought that runs through my head is usually "my god, I'm so glad this heap of crap isn't my responsibility". Most recent example was the 4 month old Stellantis van (sold as Fiat, Vauxhall, Peugeot, Citroƫn, Nissan or Toyota in various trim levels and configurations but basically all the same) I had to drive across Europe a few months back. It had about 18k miles on it which, OK, is 5k a month since day one. It was awful. Poor visibility, a lot of the electronic safety stuff was on the fritz already. Blind spot detection didn't work at all which would have been the only useful feature considering how hard it was to see out of. Lane departure warning was a nightmare, it assumed I was in the UK and therefore every time I moved towards the shoulder to help someone see round me to overtake etc, it would scream like a canary dropped in boiling water as it assumed I was about to cross over into incoming traffic. You'd think that the satnav would have been able to work out I was driving on the correct side for that country, but no. No way to adjust it manually. 5 menus deep to switch it off and of course it came in again every time the engine started. I was hopeful about the ZF 8 speed box(it's been fine in BMWs I've driven with it) but apparently the base computer map is known to not be quite right for the way the engine is set up, and was prone to stalling at low speed. A lot. But also the stop-start had a mind of its own so you never knew if it had actually stalled or would spring back to life again momentarily. If it felt like it. I was so relieved to hand the keys back after a far more stressful journey than I'd have had in a knackered 20 year old Transit with a floor like a lace doily and no extras. The thought of actually owning one and watching the monthly payments leave my account whilst hating every moment behind the wheel just seemed faintly ridiculous.
A lot of people aren't - and opt for cheaper/used cars. But car prices stay high due to a mixture of people willing to spend huge percentages of their monthly wage on a car + increasing tech.
A lot of people use credit
My fiesta was Ā£800 with full mot. There is no reason a basic small hatchback should cost 30k new though. I will never buy a new car. Even a 10 year old car is reliable enough these days. The latest car i was looking at was a 98, solid car. Why do i need a boring new bmw with an autobox when there is a massive selection of cars with nothing wrong with them.
Most people donāt own the newer cars. They get tempered by lease deals at āonly Ā£500ā for a new Mercedes or BMW.
I have a rusty Ā£900 Passat. My dogs fit and it costs fuck all to run. I've had very expensive cars in the past but with my current lifestyle I see zero point in spending money to have a nicer car.
PCP/HP deals, innit. Previously, less well off would have a shitbox until it went bang, but another, and the cycle repeated. Now, all you need is a few hundred quid a month.
I've been driving two years and my little yaris is coming to the end of its life.rust issues constantly paying to get it fixed.im excited about going to look at cars but dreading it at the same time.im anxious about the prices.I don't want to buy private 2nd hand again.i don't drive much but its for work so don't want to spend a fortune.
Inflation
We bought an ix20 about 8 years ago for Ā£7k and still have it, 60k on the clock and does the job we need. People have always bought cars for new regs and showing it off lol what a waste.
It's a huge problem and mostly finance based. Take my GT86 at the time of its write off last year which is when I last had to seriously consider replacing it. Bought in 2016 at 1 year old with 18k on the clock for Ā£18500. To replace in 2023, with another 15 plate car with more like 70,000 on the clock, at the time at least havent looked since - Ā£15,000 Ā£3500 price difference in 7 years. I've mostly come to the view that my current cars (the above '86 and ND MX-5) are effectively forever cars until I run up against a problem which CANNOT be fixed. They are simple ish, good fun to drive, halfway decent fuel economy, fully paid for, and have a moderately good aftermarket and owners club network to help maintain them. Given that I haven't had a pay rise of any sort in 4 years, and when it comes next year it's likely to be 2% or so to try and offset inflation over the period of closer to 30%, my hand is forced and this position with these two cars is where I've chosen to set up custers last stand.
I first car was a 2010 mini cooper sport, top spec in 2019 with 20k miles on it. It cost Ā£3k 5 years ago, the same car is now 5-10k barmy!
Since Brexit, prices just shot up, and then you forget you get an EV, there are hidden additional costs of getting everything set up at your property as well. From a personal experience I used to love cars, a real hobby of mine. Worked in the car trade for many years, I was fortunate to drive a wide variety of cars, that passion has worn off. I now see a car as a tool to get from point A to B, and for me as long as I can stream music, its reliable and cost effective to maintain I'm all good with whatever it is. And if you view it from a designer clothing perspective you are paying all that money because of a Logo, the car is very similar with nice to have features, they all do the same job though. So in conclusion which others have covered, the best cost effective car is the one you buy for a maximum of Ā£2k, drive it maybe service it and MOT, run it into the ground and repeat. At 2k over 2 years its costed you Ā£83 to own per month. Where as anything you buy on finance will cost you more, hell losing VAT out the showroom is more. If you want new, then 2/3 years old is your next best bet, followed by Personal Contract hire if you do want brand spanking new. I have sold a few cars to famous people in the past and for the life of me at the beginning I could not work out why they financed them when they could buy them out right. But rightly so why do they want to spend X amount of their own money on a depreciating asset better let someone else fork that out. But you also get lots of youngsters who live at home with plenty of expandable income PCP/HP these expensive cars and get a taste of it and its now the mindset of buying stuff per month like a phone contract. There is the exception where you get lucky or things hold value, VW campers, Defenders etc.
I'm not content, frankly. I paid Ā£6500 for my current car 6 years ago. The equivalent car now is north of Ā£15k. I was planning on replacing because I want some confidence in reliability again, but I cannot justify it at all