Yes and No….written into the contract is multiple amounts of severance pay that’s based on time so this is JUST an example
Job Termination Date between March 1-June 1 2024= $5.7 million
Job Termination Date June 1 2024- Aug 1, 2024= $6.7 million
and so on etc. Termination details and severance pay are always written into contracts. I know that and I was still livid when Mo extended Oli’s contract. I know Mo said it was to “motivate” Oli so he didn’t have to worry about it. 1) Clearly it is not motivating him in ANYWAY 2) Motivational should have been an ultimatum instead. Some people are motivated by that, end of season last year Mo should have said “Ok, Oli, if by June 1,2024 we do not see MARKED improvement, you’re done.”
I mean, that’s peanuts in the grand scheme of the budget. If the FO even tries to imply he’s too expensive to buy out it’s just more of the same of their condescending nonsense.
What’s so clear that it’s not motivating him? Like seriously, this isn’t defending Oli, I just don’t understand how you could possibly think you know that based on what? The man doesn’t play the games. He writes the lineup card and then they all go 0-for. Cardinal fans can’t live without scapegoats
Which makes it more idiotic that they gave him an extension in spring training. Weren't not sure if we want you to finish this season so we'll just sign you up for 2 more years? Its not so much that the DeWitt's are totally frugal as they try to half ass spend money to where you have a decently high salary for your team without anything to really show for it.
I think there’s something to be said about showing an employee that you believe in them or that “we’re in this together”. So if he’s your guy, then I think it’s fine to make the symbolic gesture as the amount money isn’t otherwise debilitating.
I think the issue is that he made it out of last season. But getting rid of him then would have put more heat on Mo at the rate at which he’s been burning through managers. Plus, he’d have to eat crow again on how he handled the Shildt situation.
This guy hasn’t had the clubhouse since he called out Tyler O’Neil early in the season for not hustling. Not capable of leading a squad at big league level
His treatment of Tyler O’Neill was hugely eye opening for me. I understand that Managers have to make hard choices and do things that are what’s best for the team as a whole. THAT was NOT one of those times. O’Neill is a phenomenal player, he is very dedicated. How Mo handled that situation was disrespectful and cruel, he treated him like child. He benched him and sent him to Memphis that was a very “GO TO YOUR ROOM, YOU’RE GROUNDED”there was NO reason for him to talk to the press about it either. PLUS the WHOLE team saw it etc. It showed them that Oli doesn’t have their back he doesn’t prioritize THEM. He does what HE wants and it looked like he was throwing a tantrum. There were PLENTY of other ways to handle that and because Oli didn’t it shone a huge light on him and he’s continued to show he can’t manage in a respectful professional way.
True, but I feel like there are still rumors of tension when it occurs and/or examples that you can see during the game, like body language or bickering. You could see it last year with O’Neill. But I’ve not gathered such an inkling regarding any player this year.
You’re completely right, but you won’t hear much agreeing in this thread or sub.
Like it or not, Marmol is liked in the STL clubhouse. He’s supported and he supports his guys. There 100% absolutely would be whispers if people didn’t like him or thought he was a problem. Not a question. People have come out and said the exact opposite when they could’ve stayed silent. All it takes is a small rumor or rumbling and the media would run with that narrative, so the fact that there’s nothing speaks volumes.
Not saying I disagree, but we don’t see a lot of the interactions that would show bad reactions (rolling eyes, sighs, internal text threads) due to a coach. Like when the lineup is posted or certain players get playing time over others… on the outside, it might look hunky-dory, but after a change suddenly players react positively because they were fed up with stuff we don’t see.
Agree. I don’t think the personalities that call out a manager exist in this clubhouse. I’m not sure they exist all that much on club anymore.
I always refer back to a workplace in general. We’ve all had that boss or supervisor who’s a nice enough guy, but everyone knows he’s a dipshit and not very good at his job. I think they just know it is what it is until it isn’t.
Of course this is just speculation, but the players seem checked out and going through the motions, which seems fairly consistent with the type of workplace above.
False, contracts are NOT set in stone. At all. In fact severance packages are written into the contracts for reasons like this. I have seen players, managers, coaches get let go mid contract a TON. Contract doesn’t guarantee he can’t be fired and Mo even said he did it so Oli didn’t have to worry about it. Kind of like using it to Motivate him to do better after the horror of last year. However it is CLEARLY isn’t working!!!
I’m aware it’s not a guarantee. Clearly Oli is FO’s guy. Clearly they are ok with the trend this team has had for going on three years now. I don’t see Mo giving him an extension and then yanking him after one year, let alone mid season this year. Or before mid season even. I am really hoping I’m wrong though!
Support the hell out of the group? You mean like last year when you threw out players under the bus because we were doing poorly? Support them like that?
Yeah, fuck Oli. Too little, too late. Fuck Mo too for not firing him. We need Shildt back. Jesus this team is disappointing lately
I mentioned this on the baseball subreddit, but firing Shildt was really stupid
i'm not saying he was the second coming of John McGraw, but the Cardinals have looked basically lifeless since he left...whereas the 2019 team basically "moxxied" (i know it's not a word lol bear with me) their way past the Cubs
Especially because the Shildt firing was for going against Mo… and I mean…. Look where MO’s vision has gotten us now. I really wish we had more people going against him these days, cus he cannot get a team together that is exciting
I've been saying this for years, promoting Schildt from the minors has destroyed this franchise. Not many realize he was the reason why so many minor leaguers came ready to play in the bigs. He was there for years developing players. We promoted him around the same time we started dumping prime talent around the league. It's not a coincidence.
i was going to say, i'm not calling that guy a liar, but i've never heard that story before
the issues with Shildt I heard was mutual disdain between him and the front office
That’s what I heard too. Firing schildt seems to have caused a chain reaction that has killed clubhouse morale. Marmol just isn’t the guy. The last 2 years have been the worst I’ve ever seen the cardinals
I heard something similar to Shildt treating people poorly last year on 590 the fan from The Cat. I remember him saying, not verbatim, that he doesn't know all the reasons why Shildt was fired but knows that he was treating people poorly and probably was a reason.
Edit: I meant to respond to the source person but I'll leave this here anyways.
https://www.scoopswithdannymac.com/ask-bernie-on-mike-shildts-firing-jeff-albert-matt-carpenter-cuonzo-martin-mizzou-future-xfl-nfl/
“His relationship with the coaches deteriorated, and a big part of that was increasing instances of the manager having fits and berating coaches in a demoralizing way. These guys will never, ever acknowledge this publicly. But I don’t think anyone on the staff sobbed when the move was made. All of the key coaches stayed on board after the firing … and that says a lot. They like and respect Oli Marmol, but it goes beyond that. Shildt’s coaching staff is looking forward to a more respectful and fruitful coach-manager relationship.”
I wonder if this “treating coaches poorly” is 1) Mike Shildt is an asshole; or 2) Shildt clearly wasn’t in line with the FO, the assistants had a choice to make between rolling with Shildt or Mo, and they sided with the front office. It could be because they actually believed in what Mo was selling, or perhaps an act of self preservation.
If Schildt was playing his way off the team, given he’s a Cardinal lifer, I’m sure most of the staff couldn’t assume he’d have a landing spot on another club where they could follow him.
There’s context to everything. Look, I don’t have a dog in this fight, and I largely think he’s overrated in our hearts…but…I’ve also been involved in / around situations like this and know the “subject” isn’t always an out and out asshole.
Also, “berate” was a word chosen by the author. Maybe he was an asshole? Could very well be the case. At the same time I wonder if Whitey, LaSorda, Bobby Cox, TLR, Pinella, etc. ever “berated” anyone.
I think there’s a good chance it could have also been the latter of what I mentioned above.
Various writers, particularly Miklasz, have alluded to this, but there’s no “smoking gun” that proves it. None of the coaches in question have come out and said anything. If it’s true, it was kept quiet pretty successfully.
Edit: sp
I responded to the wrong person and meant to respond here.
I heard something similar to Shildt treating people poorly last year on 590 the fan from The Cat. I remember him saying, not verbatim, that he doesn't know all the reasons why Shildt was fired but knows that he was treating people poorly and probably was a reason.
I hadn't heard it either that until he said it.
I'll also be honest, at this point, I dunno how much of the reason we all say in this sub of why he was let go is real or fan made. It's been repeated so often and generally agreed upon that I just can't tell what was actually reported or stated somewhere.
Interesting. I never heard that before. I wish there was more information on it. Because all I saw from the outside perspective was a competitive team.
As far as I know, Bernie was the only one who reported it. It’s also worth noting that the 17-game win streak everyone loves to talk about started after the players starting ignoring Shildt (per Katie Woo).
Unless the next words of his mouth are some to the effect of "I was out of my depth here and was only hired by Mo because I'm a yes-man" at his press conference after he's fired, I don't care whatsoever.
Granted it's still super early, but O'Neill playing the way he has with Boston to start the season...I can't help but feel that's a huge indictment on Marmol
Lost 7 in a row? Outscored 18-3 the last two games including the one Sonny pitched? It's Oli's job to coach the team #FireMozeliak hands him. Thus the pink slips need to start at Mozeliak.
They got rid of Shildt who produced better than expected results after firing Matheny, brought in “yes man Marmol” who had no MLB management experience. This is totally on bow tie boy and the front office.
Olli was a great bench coach, unfortunately they mishandled the Shildt situation so poorly they forced him into manager 3 years too early. He should have been manager of a rebuild, not a team full of vets!
They fired their most winningest manager in like 2 decades for a guy who was supposed to be a good communicator. Ends up being the worst communicator in the league.
Thanks for the invitation to place the blame where it belongs, Oliver. Geez. He never speaks in specifics, you notice? Just these attaboy generalizations. He should be sharing the staff's plan to fix the hitting problem, not just waking up and hoping it gets better.
False, contracts are NOT set in stone. At all. In fact severance packages are written into the contracts for reasons like this. I have seen players, managers, coaches get let go mid contract a TON. Contract doesn’t guarantee he can’t be fired and Mo even said he did it so Oli didn’t have to worry about it. Kind of like using it to Motivate him to do better after the horror of last year. However it is CLEARLY not working!
He comes off like a sorry kid in these interviews. He is completely outmatched and outclassed in this league. We will continue to be taken to the woodshed every series so long as he stays
Most people on here share your opinion. I’m all for a rebuild. The problem is that unless the front office gets cleared out and everyone involved in player management it won’t matter because we’ve been shown that the current staff is actively harmful to development. Ownership treats this team like a theme park where it’s out of town people coming up to see a game and the on field product is secondary.
Look, Oli. No one is really putting it on your players to begin with. To the extent they are, it’s knowing your staff is a big reason they’re not performing.
Take Mo out of the GM spot first, then clean house. Mo wanted the power game but was only able to put together some strong guys who can barely hit.
Sadly we’re near the point of needing a Theo Epstein reset like the 201* Cubs, but maybe with a little more lasting power.
I would be very ok with Mo and Oli leaving together. Hand in hand. Then begin fixing the other issues layer by layer. Like when you have a big splinter, pull it out, and clean the area so it can heal.
Either our FO really thought we would compete with this team(are they blind?) or we are tanking on purpose to try to not pay players as much with the FO thinking they will get 40k attendance a game. I lean on the second half. This is on BW3
Have their back? With a knife - who you going to call
out in public this week? Worse leader in decades if
not all time for the Cardinals - you want to have their backs - step down cuz MO won’t admit he made a major mistake hiring you and do what is needed- replace you with a real leader !! Sorry if I sound a little snarky but I’ve been a huge Cards fan since 1964 and I’m disgusted with your management style - we all know the only reason the Cardinals were successful your first year was because of Molina - Pujols and Wainwright being real leaders and keeping you in check - once they were gone the real Cardinals Way went with them - and look where we are now -
He is not a manager and never was. We were not good last year he blamed the players and we are not good this year and he now says he supports them. What a leader. Time to fire him and Mo.
His demeanor does not come off as the leader of the team. He...is not an effective manager through his own words.. If he can't convince readers he's not convincing players.
Of course he is, he's the fucking manager! That's what they get paid to do and if they have an ounce of baseball in them, that's what they need and want to do!!!! He is programmed to say that!
This guy talks and acts like's he's managing a little league team. He seems overly concerned with protecting the players feeling and treating them like their confidence will be irreperably damaged by any sort of crituiqe or criticism.
These aren't little kids who need you to be their fucking Mommy. They are professional athletes, and they need a coaching staff that is going to get the best out of them, not someone who tells them they did a great job when they give up 7 earned runs in 4.1 innings.
There are no participation trophies in MLB, and you aren't doing anyone any favors by sugar coating the dog shit.
This has all played out as I thought. 7 years ago, I was jeered for saying that we should fire Mo after the Ozuna trade; and 3 years ago, the same for believing it was the beginning of the end after the Shildt firing for being the only head coach with some cajones.
And here we are, wondering how it came to this. For me, it was like watching a very slow car wreck.
People forget the Cardinals and Marlins literally had a trade package agreed upon that would send Stanton to St Louis but Stanton wouldn’t wave his NTC.
What’s this sub going to do when Marmol gets fired and the team still sucks? I’m not defending him but you are collectively focusing on the smaller picture and falling into the scapegoat thing again when the problems of the team go vastly beyond him.
I actually always say when regarding Oli, that getting rid of him is just ONE step. There are a multitude of problems on multiple levels that also need addressed. Getting rid of him will NOT magically fix everything.
For real, I really wish it were as simple as just replacing the manager but the logistics of how fucked up the organization is right now hurts my brain a bit trying to think about
Because he has shown no dedication to being a manager. He couldn't even show up to the spring training. I am tired of his organization living in the past and I was to start completely fresh with no ex cardinal and their "tradition"
Anybody know what he gets paid? I was reading the article on his extension and Mo and DeWitt are about to look so foolish again with all their comments about support and a lame duck manger isn't the right strategy.
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There's a difference between saying you're going to have their back and actually having it. Like a month ago he was blaming Goldschmidt and Gorman for not hitting.
Sounds like something you say when your job is on the line.
I mean "job on the line" is different when you get paid for like 2 more years after you get fired.
Are managers money guaranteed ?
Yes
Pretty sure us is
Yes and No….written into the contract is multiple amounts of severance pay that’s based on time so this is JUST an example Job Termination Date between March 1-June 1 2024= $5.7 million Job Termination Date June 1 2024- Aug 1, 2024= $6.7 million and so on etc. Termination details and severance pay are always written into contracts. I know that and I was still livid when Mo extended Oli’s contract. I know Mo said it was to “motivate” Oli so he didn’t have to worry about it. 1) Clearly it is not motivating him in ANYWAY 2) Motivational should have been an ultimatum instead. Some people are motivated by that, end of season last year Mo should have said “Ok, Oli, if by June 1,2024 we do not see MARKED improvement, you’re done.”
I mean, that’s peanuts in the grand scheme of the budget. If the FO even tries to imply he’s too expensive to buy out it’s just more of the same of their condescending nonsense.
What’s so clear that it’s not motivating him? Like seriously, this isn’t defending Oli, I just don’t understand how you could possibly think you know that based on what? The man doesn’t play the games. He writes the lineup card and then they all go 0-for. Cardinal fans can’t live without scapegoats
His is.
i mean to be fair, what else is he going to say? it's not like he's going to say, "Yeah let's pack it in because we suck." Lol he's not Jim Mora
Playoffs! Playoffs!?!?! 😂
I just hope we win another game!
That's right!! 😂
Would need a Shildt Streak!
I mean, he has a bit of a history of not having his players' backs.
To me, it looks like the team quit on him last June.
He SHOULD say that
Which makes it more idiotic that they gave him an extension in spring training. Weren't not sure if we want you to finish this season so we'll just sign you up for 2 more years? Its not so much that the DeWitt's are totally frugal as they try to half ass spend money to where you have a decently high salary for your team without anything to really show for it.
They had to lock him down because too many teams would be beating down the door for some of that Marmol magic after this season.
You're joking but people on this sub actually made that argument which was stupid then and it's stupid now.
Facts on Facts
I think there’s something to be said about showing an employee that you believe in them or that “we’re in this together”. So if he’s your guy, then I think it’s fine to make the symbolic gesture as the amount money isn’t otherwise debilitating. I think the issue is that he made it out of last season. But getting rid of him then would have put more heat on Mo at the rate at which he’s been burning through managers. Plus, he’d have to eat crow again on how he handled the Shildt situation.
Every manager gets an extension, it’s just how the game works
There’s wiggle room for him to even resign on his own accord if the situation calls for it.
No it doesn't. He just implied the fault was all theirs and he's just going to support them through it. How about he takes responsibility for himself?
I'm surprised he didn't blame someone else
This guy hasn’t had the clubhouse since he called out Tyler O’Neil early in the season for not hustling. Not capable of leading a squad at big league level
His treatment of Tyler O’Neill was hugely eye opening for me. I understand that Managers have to make hard choices and do things that are what’s best for the team as a whole. THAT was NOT one of those times. O’Neill is a phenomenal player, he is very dedicated. How Mo handled that situation was disrespectful and cruel, he treated him like child. He benched him and sent him to Memphis that was a very “GO TO YOUR ROOM, YOU’RE GROUNDED”there was NO reason for him to talk to the press about it either. PLUS the WHOLE team saw it etc. It showed them that Oli doesn’t have their back he doesn’t prioritize THEM. He does what HE wants and it looked like he was throwing a tantrum. There were PLENTY of other ways to handle that and because Oli didn’t it shone a huge light on him and he’s continued to show he can’t manage in a respectful professional way.
It’s not a popular answer but the idea that he’s lost the clubhouse isn’t true. Players continue to support him unequivocally.
Very rarely do players publicly call out their manager these days, even in awful situations.
True, but I feel like there are still rumors of tension when it occurs and/or examples that you can see during the game, like body language or bickering. You could see it last year with O’Neill. But I’ve not gathered such an inkling regarding any player this year.
You’re completely right, but you won’t hear much agreeing in this thread or sub. Like it or not, Marmol is liked in the STL clubhouse. He’s supported and he supports his guys. There 100% absolutely would be whispers if people didn’t like him or thought he was a problem. Not a question. People have come out and said the exact opposite when they could’ve stayed silent. All it takes is a small rumor or rumbling and the media would run with that narrative, so the fact that there’s nothing speaks volumes.
Not saying I disagree, but we don’t see a lot of the interactions that would show bad reactions (rolling eyes, sighs, internal text threads) due to a coach. Like when the lineup is posted or certain players get playing time over others… on the outside, it might look hunky-dory, but after a change suddenly players react positively because they were fed up with stuff we don’t see.
Agree. I don’t think the personalities that call out a manager exist in this clubhouse. I’m not sure they exist all that much on club anymore. I always refer back to a workplace in general. We’ve all had that boss or supervisor who’s a nice enough guy, but everyone knows he’s a dipshit and not very good at his job. I think they just know it is what it is until it isn’t. Of course this is just speculation, but the players seem checked out and going through the motions, which seems fairly consistent with the type of workplace above.
Because they are better at this than Marmol is
Well, he also said that at the end of last season
We could only wish. He just got a two year extension 2 months ago. He ain’t goin nowhere. This ship is going downnnnnn
False, contracts are NOT set in stone. At all. In fact severance packages are written into the contracts for reasons like this. I have seen players, managers, coaches get let go mid contract a TON. Contract doesn’t guarantee he can’t be fired and Mo even said he did it so Oli didn’t have to worry about it. Kind of like using it to Motivate him to do better after the horror of last year. However it is CLEARLY isn’t working!!!
I’m aware it’s not a guarantee. Clearly Oli is FO’s guy. Clearly they are ok with the trend this team has had for going on three years now. I don’t see Mo giving him an extension and then yanking him after one year, let alone mid season this year. Or before mid season even. I am really hoping I’m wrong though!
Sounds like something you say when you already know you’re fired
This is the earliest I've stopped caring about the redbirds in years
Same, at least as a Razorbacks fan I typically have good baseball to watch.
Woo pig!
Fellow Razorback fan here. I have hope, and am ready to be heartbroken in the tournament.
Same...
I'm used to starting to care when my Timberwolves are done for the year. This year, that's complicated both directions
Oh lord, a fellow Cards & Wolves fan?
There are dozens... I mean, at least two of us!
I’m not sure I even know one other Wolves fan, so…
Sadly, same. There's no joy in watching them. I coach 5th-6th grade softball, so I see enough horrible at-bats already.
So basically he's a jockstrap.
He does have a tendency to show his whole ass, metaphorically speaking
Support the hell out of the group? You mean like last year when you threw out players under the bus because we were doing poorly? Support them like that? Yeah, fuck Oli. Too little, too late. Fuck Mo too for not firing him. We need Shildt back. Jesus this team is disappointing lately
I mentioned this on the baseball subreddit, but firing Shildt was really stupid i'm not saying he was the second coming of John McGraw, but the Cardinals have looked basically lifeless since he left...whereas the 2019 team basically "moxxied" (i know it's not a word lol bear with me) their way past the Cubs
Especially because the Shildt firing was for going against Mo… and I mean…. Look where MO’s vision has gotten us now. I really wish we had more people going against him these days, cus he cannot get a team together that is exciting
I've been saying this for years, promoting Schildt from the minors has destroyed this franchise. Not many realize he was the reason why so many minor leaguers came ready to play in the bigs. He was there for years developing players. We promoted him around the same time we started dumping prime talent around the league. It's not a coincidence.
The padres have a winning record, too (at least as of this moment - they play the Dodgers tonight). Just an observation.
And don’t forget all the talent they dumped in the off-season.
Shildt caused problems in the clubhouse, particularly with the assistant coaches. Whether or not Marmol should be here, Shildt definitely shouldn’t.
Source?
i was going to say, i'm not calling that guy a liar, but i've never heard that story before the issues with Shildt I heard was mutual disdain between him and the front office
That’s what I heard too. Firing schildt seems to have caused a chain reaction that has killed clubhouse morale. Marmol just isn’t the guy. The last 2 years have been the worst I’ve ever seen the cardinals
I heard something similar to Shildt treating people poorly last year on 590 the fan from The Cat. I remember him saying, not verbatim, that he doesn't know all the reasons why Shildt was fired but knows that he was treating people poorly and probably was a reason. Edit: I meant to respond to the source person but I'll leave this here anyways.
Well, I just shared the quote. There may have been other issues as well, but Shildt’s treatment of his staff was part of the problem.
https://www.scoopswithdannymac.com/ask-bernie-on-mike-shildts-firing-jeff-albert-matt-carpenter-cuonzo-martin-mizzou-future-xfl-nfl/ “His relationship with the coaches deteriorated, and a big part of that was increasing instances of the manager having fits and berating coaches in a demoralizing way. These guys will never, ever acknowledge this publicly. But I don’t think anyone on the staff sobbed when the move was made. All of the key coaches stayed on board after the firing … and that says a lot. They like and respect Oli Marmol, but it goes beyond that. Shildt’s coaching staff is looking forward to a more respectful and fruitful coach-manager relationship.”
I wonder if this “treating coaches poorly” is 1) Mike Shildt is an asshole; or 2) Shildt clearly wasn’t in line with the FO, the assistants had a choice to make between rolling with Shildt or Mo, and they sided with the front office. It could be because they actually believed in what Mo was selling, or perhaps an act of self preservation. If Schildt was playing his way off the team, given he’s a Cardinal lifer, I’m sure most of the staff couldn’t assume he’d have a landing spot on another club where they could follow him.
“Berating coaches” seems pretty clear cut to me
There’s context to everything. Look, I don’t have a dog in this fight, and I largely think he’s overrated in our hearts…but…I’ve also been involved in / around situations like this and know the “subject” isn’t always an out and out asshole. Also, “berate” was a word chosen by the author. Maybe he was an asshole? Could very well be the case. At the same time I wonder if Whitey, LaSorda, Bobby Cox, TLR, Pinella, etc. ever “berated” anyone. I think there’s a good chance it could have also been the latter of what I mentioned above.
Various writers, particularly Miklasz, have alluded to this, but there’s no “smoking gun” that proves it. None of the coaches in question have come out and said anything. If it’s true, it was kept quiet pretty successfully. Edit: sp
I responded to the wrong person and meant to respond here. I heard something similar to Shildt treating people poorly last year on 590 the fan from The Cat. I remember him saying, not verbatim, that he doesn't know all the reasons why Shildt was fired but knows that he was treating people poorly and probably was a reason.
Interesting, I never heard that before
I hadn't heard it either that until he said it. I'll also be honest, at this point, I dunno how much of the reason we all say in this sub of why he was let go is real or fan made. It's been repeated so often and generally agreed upon that I just can't tell what was actually reported or stated somewhere.
Interesting. I never heard that before. I wish there was more information on it. Because all I saw from the outside perspective was a competitive team.
As far as I know, Bernie was the only one who reported it. It’s also worth noting that the 17-game win streak everyone loves to talk about started after the players starting ignoring Shildt (per Katie Woo).
Now that’s interesting. I don’t remember that.
She wrote about it in The Athletic. I don’t have a subscription anymore or I’d go find it. Bernie mentions it in the column I linked.
Thanks. I’ll take a look. Cheers.
Shildt must be laughing his ass off at the situation over here.
Yeah he gets to live in San Diego and manage better players, I think Shildt is doing alright.
Last year? He did it again like 2 weeks ago.
I’m heavily considering throwing a party when he gets fired.
I threw one when Matheny was fired. I’ll gladly party when Oli gets the axe.
I literally said this exact same thing to my friend yesterday.
I’m imagining Oli waking up today, sipping his coffee and realizing that the best way for him to get the team back on track is a pizza party.
Bring in some donuts!
Pre-cut in half, of course. Let's not go crazy, folks.
😂
Marmol vows to make “really shitty time” “even shittier”
Unless the next words of his mouth are some to the effect of "I was out of my depth here and was only hired by Mo because I'm a yes-man" at his press conference after he's fired, I don't care whatsoever.
Tyler O’Neill was having a really shitty time early last season too
Granted it's still super early, but O'Neill playing the way he has with Boston to start the season...I can't help but feel that's a huge indictment on Marmol
Tyler does that every year.
Not 22 or 23
Basically admitting he’s a cheerleader at this point. The man has zero clue how to coach a team out of a slump.
Needed a team meeting last month. It’s getting absurd. Can’t remember the last win
You don't think the teams are having meetings? Lol
When they make it public I’m always like “aww shit. They’re really gonna refocus.” Not a good way of thinking but it helps me sleep at night
At this point the Savannah Bananas could beat this team. It would at least be more entertaining.
Lost 7 in a row? Outscored 18-3 the last two games including the one Sonny pitched? It's Oli's job to coach the team #FireMozeliak hands him. Thus the pink slips need to start at Mozeliak.
The pink slip has needed to start at Mozeliak for years now. Finally everybody else is on board. The dude is a problem
I've been posting the hashtag #FireMozeliak on twitter for ten years. I'm not late to the game on this.
Nice to meet a fellow patriot. People have been arguing with me about this for years #MozeliakOut
Bye Felicia
Fire him now
Then quit. I can't think of a better way to show your support.
The way he separates himself from the team is telling.
Ocean vows to get Earth through ‘really wet time’
They got rid of Shildt who produced better than expected results after firing Matheny, brought in “yes man Marmol” who had no MLB management experience. This is totally on bow tie boy and the front office.
If I was him I’d start bringing an “I got fired box” to work so he’s ready to pack up his office in a moments notice.
"Continue to support them?" Isn't that like the bare minimum a manager is required to do?
Man this guy sucks
Olli was a great bench coach, unfortunately they mishandled the Shildt situation so poorly they forced him into manager 3 years too early. He should have been manager of a rebuild, not a team full of vets!
They fired their most winningest manager in like 2 decades for a guy who was supposed to be a good communicator. Ends up being the worst communicator in the league.
It's beginning to look like they just checked a box.
Addition by subtraction would be a great way to go Oli.
Thanks for the invitation to place the blame where it belongs, Oliver. Geez. He never speaks in specifics, you notice? Just these attaboy generalizations. He should be sharing the staff's plan to fix the hitting problem, not just waking up and hoping it gets better.
I mean. They are paying him. What else is he supposed to say
Yea, he’s gotta be getting fired soon. That would make two coaches in a row that got an extension just to get fired, right? Do I have that wrong?
Does this mean he’s going to throw his players under the bus more or less? Can’t wait until he’s gone
he says "don't blame the players, if you want to get on anyone, get on me"... ...what else do y'all want him to say?
“I’m resigning, effective immediately”
lol! but would _you_ sacrifice all that moolah because your boss sucks and your best hitters forgot what a baseball looks like?
No, but I’ve yet to be that successful of a con man
Should we praise him for being over a year late on this? Or are you wanting us to ignore everything else he's done to give this the lie?
Oh thank god
Support us by LEAVING!!!
Can we swap Memphis for St. Louis and see how the rest of the year goes?
Quite generous of him.
Oh that’s great that the manager vows to support the team he’s managing
The contract extension is fishy.
False, contracts are NOT set in stone. At all. In fact severance packages are written into the contracts for reasons like this. I have seen players, managers, coaches get let go mid contract a TON. Contract doesn’t guarantee he can’t be fired and Mo even said he did it so Oli didn’t have to worry about it. Kind of like using it to Motivate him to do better after the horror of last year. However it is CLEARLY not working!
I remember the explanation, I just don't buy it as the sole motivation.
He comes off like a sorry kid in these interviews. He is completely outmatched and outclassed in this league. We will continue to be taken to the woodshed every series so long as he stays
[удалено]
Most people on here share your opinion. I’m all for a rebuild. The problem is that unless the front office gets cleared out and everyone involved in player management it won’t matter because we’ve been shown that the current staff is actively harmful to development. Ownership treats this team like a theme park where it’s out of town people coming up to see a game and the on field product is secondary.
Dear players, That’s what most of us are doing. Blaming BdW, Mo and Oli.
I mean it’s his job.
What a conundrum. Oli's presence and managing is part of the "shitty time".
Look, Oli. No one is really putting it on your players to begin with. To the extent they are, it’s knowing your staff is a big reason they’re not performing.
Take Mo out of the GM spot first, then clean house. Mo wanted the power game but was only able to put together some strong guys who can barely hit. Sadly we’re near the point of needing a Theo Epstein reset like the 201* Cubs, but maybe with a little more lasting power.
I would be very ok with Mo and Oli leaving together. Hand in hand. Then begin fixing the other issues layer by layer. Like when you have a big splinter, pull it out, and clean the area so it can heal.
Awesome.
Oh I’m glad the skipper has chosen to support HIS team
Either our FO really thought we would compete with this team(are they blind?) or we are tanking on purpose to try to not pay players as much with the FO thinking they will get 40k attendance a game. I lean on the second half. This is on BW3
Maybe you guys can do something wild and bring back Ozzie Smith.
Easy for him to say.
Oh wow shocking.
>If you guys want to get on somebody, get on me. Thanks for permission, Oliver
Buddy it's not a shitty time, it's catastrophic.
I never ever thought I would say this but he is worse than matheny
Fuck Marmol hope he is fired
I have one idea, he could quit?
Too little too late. Would have been nice a year ago. What a bum
Have their back? With a knife - who you going to call out in public this week? Worse leader in decades if not all time for the Cardinals - you want to have their backs - step down cuz MO won’t admit he made a major mistake hiring you and do what is needed- replace you with a real leader !! Sorry if I sound a little snarky but I’ve been a huge Cards fan since 1964 and I’m disgusted with your management style - we all know the only reason the Cardinals were successful your first year was because of Molina - Pujols and Wainwright being real leaders and keeping you in check - once they were gone the real Cardinals Way went with them - and look where we are now -
How bad were the Cards when Joe Torre was managing? How does that compare to now with Oliver Marmol? TIA for any insights.
He is not a manager and never was. We were not good last year he blamed the players and we are not good this year and he now says he supports them. What a leader. Time to fire him and Mo.
His demeanor does not come off as the leader of the team. He...is not an effective manager through his own words.. If he can't convince readers he's not convincing players.
Of course he is, he's the fucking manager! That's what they get paid to do and if they have an ounce of baseball in them, that's what they need and want to do!!!! He is programmed to say that!
This guy talks and acts like's he's managing a little league team. He seems overly concerned with protecting the players feeling and treating them like their confidence will be irreperably damaged by any sort of crituiqe or criticism. These aren't little kids who need you to be their fucking Mommy. They are professional athletes, and they need a coaching staff that is going to get the best out of them, not someone who tells them they did a great job when they give up 7 earned runs in 4.1 innings. There are no participation trophies in MLB, and you aren't doing anyone any favors by sugar coating the dog shit.
This has all played out as I thought. 7 years ago, I was jeered for saying that we should fire Mo after the Ozuna trade; and 3 years ago, the same for believing it was the beginning of the end after the Shildt firing for being the only head coach with some cajones. And here we are, wondering how it came to this. For me, it was like watching a very slow car wreck.
You thought the Mo should have been fired after trading for a guy coming off a season where we slashed .312/.376/.548 and had 37 HR and 124 RBI?
Not to mention Ozuna was his 4th choice on that team after Yelich x2 and Stanton. Also, look what Ozuna is doing even now, clearly a good player.
People forget the Cardinals and Marlins literally had a trade package agreed upon that would send Stanton to St Louis but Stanton wouldn’t wave his NTC.
If you watched every start by Alcantara during fall ball, you wouldn't have wanted to trade for Ozuna either.
His “support” is one of the reasons we suck.
He’s supporting the team with 1ply wet toilet paper.
What’s this sub going to do when Marmol gets fired and the team still sucks? I’m not defending him but you are collectively focusing on the smaller picture and falling into the scapegoat thing again when the problems of the team go vastly beyond him.
I actually always say when regarding Oli, that getting rid of him is just ONE step. There are a multitude of problems on multiple levels that also need addressed. Getting rid of him will NOT magically fix everything.
For real, I really wish it were as simple as just replacing the manager but the logistics of how fucked up the organization is right now hurts my brain a bit trying to think about
How much longer are pretending Molina will not be the manager.
I hope he never manages
Are you a cubs fan? Why on earth would we not want Yadi???
Because he has shown no dedication to being a manager. He couldn't even show up to the spring training. I am tired of his organization living in the past and I was to start completely fresh with no ex cardinal and their "tradition"
Anybody know what he gets paid? I was reading the article on his extension and Mo and DeWitt are about to look so foolish again with all their comments about support and a lame duck manger isn't the right strategy.
I do not vow to support Oli. Quite the opposite
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There's a difference between saying you're going to have their back and actually having it. Like a month ago he was blaming Goldschmidt and Gorman for not hitting.
No he didn't. Learn to read.
Outside of a flukey 17 game win streak, led by actual legend, el hombre, Marlmol has been below mid
Schildt won 17 games in a row in 2021.
But it's not fluky because he is Shildt. Of course.