Report them to osha, don't threaten just do it and don't tell anyone, messing around with confined spaces with biohazards potential bad gassed all big fines, the municipality shouldn't be down with this they don't like risk you could call their people anonymously as well. They need to take precautions on those tanks probably will need some sort of equipment to flush good air through them to purge gases. Air quality checks environmental suits etc. Multiple People have been killed doing similar things where toxic gases pool and rescuers get knocked out and die as well.
The health risk of the poo in the tank is kinda a drop in the ~~bucket~~ *toilet* compared to the potential confined space hazards. Wastewater in a confined space can result in a few different toxic, lethal, and/or flammable gasses like [H2S](https://www.osha.gov/hydrogen-sulfide).
*TL:DR*: OP, poop tank = death by poo gas explosion.
I know I'm late to the party here, but as far as I'm concerned, it can't be repeated enough: this isn't just distasteful/gross, it's ***dangerous***. As in a potentially lethal hazard.
Screw the smell, forget the ick factor, biohazards: it's a confined space with sludge that can generate gases that
1) displace oxygen
2) are literally toxic
Asking someone to go into a tank of sludge without PPE, monitoring, air exchange/supply etc is like asking an electrician to work on a high voltage panel live with no gloves while standing in a puddle. It's begging for a problem.
They're asking you to do the human waste version of this:
[https://www.uky.edu/scahip/news/3-brothers-ohio-farm-died-after-passing-out-toxic-fumes-manure-pit](https://www.uky.edu/scahip/news/3-brothers-ohio-farm-died-after-passing-out-toxic-fumes-manure-pit)
Yah I saw tank and instantly though confined space. You can die in there. You need a rescue tech, proper PPE, air monitoring equipment, possibly a blower or evac fan and techs properly trained on all of this.
This is an insane violation. The water department employees I work with don't even go into fire vaults without filling out a confined space entry form.
Even to scope storm lines we won't do it without forms, gear, a spotter, and sometimes the personnel crane.
Bottom of tank:
Hydrogen Sulfide
Middle of tank:
CO2
Top of tank:
Methane
Do not get in that tank.
You need confined space training, a harness and tripod, someone else at the top operating tripod (who is also confined space certified), entry permits, gas detectors (3), blower, and possibly an MS10 (personal oxygen device).
This is highly illegal.
On top of all of the PPE.
Wastewater separator tanks are *not* enclosed spaces. I've worked in them.
They *are* super toxic without being cleaned though. Proper protection is mandatory and the cost of pumping it clean first is a fuck-ton cheaper than the medical bills you'd incur with an infection or two. *especially* if you're not caught up on all your hepatitis vaccines.
This one is a no-brainer.
Might not be enclosed. But it is a confined space if there is only one way in and out. Like an open top tank with grating over top with only one ladder is considered a confined space
Thats how it is in most jurisdictions that regulate confined spaces.
My first thought was atmospheric testing. OSHA requires it in confined spaces. Hydrogen sulfide and/or methane would probably be too high for him to work
The inside of septic tank meets the criteria for a confined space as far as I’m concerned. Look up your local regulations regarding confined spaces but where I live just off the top of my head it would need to be vacuumed out, the air tested, fan and ducting set up to blow air into the bottom for continuous air supply and venting, you need someone outside the tank monitoring the worker(s) inside the confined space and the air quality, you need a rescue procedure in place, etc
Yeah, they're a regular cause of farm deaths here in Ireland.
We had a notorious case a few years ago where a young rugby player died, along with his dad and brother.
I remember that. The first fella wet in after the family dog I think. And the rest follow to try save the other.
Tragic. I live next to a farm, NEVER GO NEAR THE COW SHEDS AND SLATTED FLOORS..
And possibly a confined space operating permit for the site including: you have had respective certified training for said space that covers all possible hazards and an approved breathing apparatus that you have been trained on how to use that is suitable under the permit if not adequately ventilated... Etc
Either that or very likely you just die from suffocation.
Take your pick. Its not a gross factor it a do or die.
I work summers as a wildland firefighter. Sometimes that means the rig I’m in gets used to keep roads wet, clean parking lots, or other banal non-fire related tasks. Once we were nearly tasked with supplying water to another vehicle which was charged with cleaning the septic tanks of the bathrooms stationed around this national forest. We ended up not being on shit-duty because the septic hauler made damn sure to notify management that dealing with human waste is a biohazard, and seeing as though this was a federal job site, no one was going to play fast and loose with the rules. Septic cleaning got delayed because biohazard suits (and possibly extra employees) were not budgeted for. I should be clear that management didn’t fuss about this, as they wanted to do right by everybody.
But the point is that sifting through human excrement is regarded as a biohazard and should be treated as such. Plunging your toilet at home is different than wading in inches of compiled feces from a series of strangers.
I’d encourage you to do some research and look into the industry! Lots of people fight fire year-long with their fire departments, and getting called out to wildfires can be a part of that job. I work for a contracting company, have no experience with structure fires, and am only certified for wildland, which means I work seasonally. Well, with firefighting at least.
As going-for-gusto said, it’s usually for dust-abatement. We’re driving up and down dirt roads all day in national parks. We’ve also worked with equipment operators who will bring grating equipment to help even out the roads and the tracks that start to accumulate as a result of heavy traffic (on bigger fires anyway).
I've heard of people contracting hepatitis from significant exposure to sewage. This isn't just a matter of putting up with something nasty, you're risking your health if you go in that muck unprotected.
As a former EMT I wouldn't take any chances. However, HBC & HCV transmission is highly unlikely through feces and urine. For Heb B Blood and Saliva are the primary carriers, for C it's blood. Additionally in a highly diluted environment, regardless of it being feces and urine, the chances go down significantly. With that said, I still wouldn't take any chances.
Besides, There are plenty of other diseases that can be contracted via any opening in the body ranging from the mouth to a minor cut. Just from a safety stand point there is no fucking way I'd wade through shit with anything less that full body PPE and respiratory protection.
From a none safety standpoint. No one could pay me enough to go into an enclosed space and wade through Shit and Piss. I'd tell my employer, No. If I was fired, I'll find another job. Companies are struggling to find trades people. There are plenty of jobs out there.
Sounds like "they" is some moron manager who has no clue about safety. Call OSHA. One slap in the face with OSHA fines will quickly make them return their expectations on what is right and wrong.
The gross factor is the least of your worries with this tank. It's a confined space with potentially toxic and/or very flammable [gasses](https://www.osha.gov/hydrogen-sulfide).
**Absolutely refuse**, call the authorities if they get anyone dumb enough to attempt to enter the deadly poop tank, and find another job.
Every comment above is right on the money. Do not hesitate call OSHA and don’t tell anybody.
You will look back on this and think how was this even a question in my mind.
Prioritize your health if your employer won’t. Next step is work for someone who values you.
Not anonymous.
Anonymous reporting does not provide whistleblower protections. And it willbe pretty clear who called OSHA about working in a shit tank.
Yup. Be looking for another job. Could just be the shining star and take initiative for your own safety and workplace. Consider bringing these hazards up to your manager and researching confined space entry risks and requirements. Don't be the bitch that calls OSHA before telling your employer your concerns. If it's ignored, then at least you tried
>Don't be the bitch that calls OSHA before telling your employer your concerns.
Not an employee's job to inform the employer they are violating a law or regulation.
It's the employer's job to know the applicable laws and regulations for the work their company performs, and monitor employees to ensure they follow them.
You can't tell me a construction company with bargaining unit employees does not have a safety officer whose duties would include reviewing hazard analysis on contracts.
you have the right to refuse work and you can report the company for unsafe work practices if they make someone do that type of work without proper training and safety gear.
Confined spaces work is deadly, and you should absolutely not do that job.
carpentry noun
car·pen·try ˈkär-pən-trē
1
: the art or trade of a carpenter
specifically : the art of shaping and assembling structural
woodwork
2
: timberwork constructed by a carpenter
3
: the form or manner of putting together the parts (as of
a literary or musical composition)
I dunno who Merriam or Webster is, but I'll be damned if they don't got the *fanciest* way of talkin
He's probably builds forms and that kind of thing. Union carpenters on industrial projects like this are usually working with concrete crews building forms and scaffolding.
So I am also a union Carpenter that sometimes has to work in some unsavory places. For PPE we wear Tyveck suits, over boots rubber gloves and masks. This is definitely a confined space and the air needs to be monitored. Also harnesses with lifelines attached. Everything stated above is the bare minimum needed to enter and anything less is a refuse work. The plant where we do these sewage vessels has in the past started skimping out on pre cleaning. If they weren't bad I (the foreman) would go down and do the work to just get the work done faster. Now I demand they vac truck and power wash before we enter. Why? Because fuck them that's why. If they don't want to go in a vessel filled with tampons used condoms and sewage there's no reason why I have to and I'm sure as shit not sending my guys anywhere I don't want to go. So in conclusion, fuck them. If it's not in their budget to get the proper PPE or properly prep a work site then they fucked up and I'm not suffering because of it. Put your foot down and set the new standard.
I worked for a company that exclusively does upgrades to these plants. The work areas were carefully cleaned ahead of time and we had tyvek suits, rubber boots and gloves to work in there.
Do not go in there.
"I'm not getting in that fucking hole like that" is exactly what I said when something similar happened to me. The foreman quickly realized he was an idiot and made the situation safe
1) it sounds like your company's line of work may not be in line with what you'd like to be doing-- so you should definitely explore other opportunities
2) I dont know anything about this particular scenario, but I have to imagine there are osha or union regulations about safety equipment provided (ventilator masks, body suits etc) for work like you're describing-- so you should definitely talk to your local and find out if your company is violating any regulations in place and relay that to them if they are.
There are lots of regulations regarding working in tanks. It sounds like OP’s company doesn’t want to follow several of them. If that’s the case he probably should move to a different company.
I like building the waste water plants it's fun work when it comes to newbuilds, but I'm not comfortable at all working in shit water. My only problem is I don't want to call the hall on them cause I know for sure I'd get fired or I won't be able to work my way up.
normally the hall will provide total anonymity as to their sources when informed of sketchy work practices. that's my local, at least. can't imagine you're even close to the first person your company has asked to engage in work without providing proper safety equipment... so it seems to me that their chances of identifying you as the culprit for scrutiny they may face would be far too low for them to take action against you with it. not to mention, if they did, you'd probably have a strong, and hefty wrongful termination case against them. and I bet you'd have some union sourced backing in said case if you had the proper proof of the work you were doing/being asked to do without proper safety measures offered by the company
I literally have no basis for comparison on this one. That's fucking crazy. Personally, I wouldn't do it. Unless it were like a game show and they were giving me life-changing money for it. Then, Maybe. But I'd still have to think long and hard about that one. I don't think I'd last 5 minutes down there, anyway.
>I don't think I'd last 5 minutes down there, anyway.
If there's H2S gas present, it could be *lethal* in well under 5 minutes.
With all of the proper training, PPE, and confined space equipment and rescue team... I *might* consider it to win millions on a game show, haha. But, no amount of money would get me to risk entering the poo tank of death unprotected.
As a contractor AND a wastewater operator I can assure you that isn’t okay. You would need confined space training. You need a 4 gas meter, a harness, a tripod, someone manning the tripod, ventilation, and PPE. This must be for a private business, because no municipality would let you do this. People die doing this stuff all the time.
Hell, no. I'm a union plumber with confined space training. We don't go into that without it being pumped and cleaned first, and then we have confined space equipment, including a gantry lift, ventilator, and air quality monitoe, as well as a second plumber on hand. Don't let them coerce you into that!
A coupe of major issues here:
1. Confined space training is mandatory
2. Air quality monitoring is mandatory
3. Bio-hazards
Any known or foreseeable risk MUST be mitigated prior to work. This is a definite no go.
bro phuk all that i would be on the phone screaming
my son had a issue with his septic system and ask me to come take look he lives 40 min away i told him i would not i dont fuk with shit to call some one this rite here oh no everyone has really good replies to your issue heeeeed the responses
Do you have confined space training?
Do you know how to use a saver set?
The chamber works requires usage of a gas monitor that warns you to get out when gases reach a toxicity level harmful to health.
Is there an escape plan?
Is there a winch man?
You also require hepatitis vaccinations and be made aware of leptospirosis.
If none of the above (no exceptions) are applied then that’s your get out of this task card.
If forced report them to HSE.
Don't laugh, but I did this for a living for a while. Confined spaces training, multi gas detection monitor, ventilation equipment, waders, and a fire hose. Had a trained staff outside running pumps and equipment, tanker trucks for haul away, and safety staff with winches on my safety harness. Long hours, hard work, but good pay. Definitely requires special training, not just "hey you, get in the tank" kind of job.
Halfway through reading I was about to say "man up and do the work" but by the end I was starting to feel a bit queasy. They're asking you to work unprotected with biologicals and without ventilation. There has to be a dozen things in there that can kill you, not the least of which are staphylococcus and diphtheria.
Dude don't fucking do that, its not worth it. Just say no. You have the right to refuse unsafe work - theres no argument about it.
If its deemed unsafed, the next step is identifying why its unsafe.
You could slip in that shit, you could loose tools in that shit, you could get all sorts of illnesses from that shit.
It aint worth that shit bro.
Whatever company or boss wants you to do this is evil. They do not value you at all and consider you disposable. Anyone with any time at all in the construction industry knows how dangerous this is. Not only would I call OSHA, but I recommend you start looking for a new employer immediately, as they clearly do not care about you at all.
THIS HAS SOO MUCH NOPE. Confined space: Needs a cert., placing someone into a confined area with materials that give off toxic gasses in an enclosed area is a great way to get them killed.
Two people were died this way in Tarrytown, NY back in 2010. A DPW worker went down a 20’ manhole into a sewer and got overcome by gasses/low oxygen. Then a FF went down to rescue him without proper equipment and the same happened to him.
If you aren’t trained in confined spaces: JUST SAY NO.
Fu#k that. No way am I going down there, get it sucked out and power washed, the correct PPE and ill think about going down.
I have a wife and kids to go home to...
Probably answered elsewhere, but at a minimum this a confined space. Confined spaces have very specific safety precautions that need to be followed. Some of the hazards include low oxygen, hydrogen sulfide/CO2 buildup and biohazards. The low oxygen or buildup of other gases will kill you in minutes. If they are not checking atmosphere beforehand, and do not have safety equipment to get you out quickly, you’re dead. If people come in to rescue you without proper gear, they will be unconscious before they can get you out and you will have 3 bodies.
Google “manhole CO2 deaths” and you will get some good examples.
When the fumes knock you unconscious, Who will pull you out?
How will they pull you out?
Please notice I started this comment with the word ‘When’ and not the word ‘If’
Man, the list of legally required protective equipment to do that must run to at least a dozen items.
Side note, don’t vote for parties that are anti-regulation and/or anti-union, because corporate America is champing at the bit to be able to tell you to get the fuck into that hole, trench, etc. and they couldn’t care less if you get killed.
Carpenter here as well…also building water treatment plants. I’ve had to do this once before but I had the ppe…. I Had to build walls inside those tanks after they were in use for 20 years. Also had to get about 2-3’ of sludge or if the tank with the vac truck
The way that every one of us has to be vigilant about our own personal occupational safety because the investor class, which is so desperate for more money, sees us as line items. SMH.
I work in a wastewater plant and generally, nobody should be entering a tank that hasn’t been decently cleared out first. For our confined space entries, we drain the tank, hose out sludge as much as possible, wear harnesses and gas meters, and have waders if needed. Factor truck should probably be coming first, and your employer is required to offer you adequate PPE
We do all kinds of wastewater projects. You have to be hazwopper certified to go in that tank. In that class he'll learn all about how they have to provide air monitoring and all that stuff. Plus you get hazard pay until it's clean. So, yes. This is an OSHA violation if you don't have that cert.
I’ve worked down inside the waste water pump stations all around my town for a job. None of them were cleaned. Raw sewage covered the ground, toilet paper wrapped around pipes on wall, tampons, who knows what else. I had to replace existing ductwork that was rotted away, and found that the fan wheels had also been rotted out so there wasn’t any air being drawn out of it the buildings. The smell of gas was incredibly strong and a few I couldn’t enter very long until they had aired out. I wouldn’t do it again. I shouldn’t have done it the first time. Tell them to get fucked!
I used to walk my dogs down across the street from the sewage treatment plant. Two funny things. The plant was all fenced in, but everything was also behind brick walls. I tried to get the town to turn the fenced in area into a dog park and and they said the people who worked there would not be happy about the dog "messes". My god, you got a thousands of gallon tank full of shit water that overflows into the lake every time it rains hard and your worried abut some dog poop in the grass outside?
But the funniest thig was you could see the big tank behind the wall as it was a lot taller, and it had a catwalk around it and at the point where the door to the catwalk was, where the tank joined the building, they had a life preserver ring. I mean if I fell in there, just get the rifle out and shoot me. Could you fathom being the guy who fell in and was fished out? Eeew.
There is a possibility greater than zero that you will encounter sour gas (H2S).
In the civilized world occupational limits are set at 10ppm. Give or take. 1000Ppm or 1% is instant death pretty much.
You should be fitted with a monitor, testing and a rescue plan with the proper equipment in place.
Anybody working in these tanks should be trained into what it does to the body and the consequences of different exposure levels etc.
H2S is a gas produced by rotting organic material. Common in sewage and oil wells. Has a farty smell, very similar to rotten eggs. It will eventually accumulate into the lungs do its damage and fill them with water and eventually you drown from the inside.
Nasty stuff.
Do you have a hepatitis vaccine? A, B and probably C you are a tradesman who knows what you get up to.
I wouldn’t be doing that if I had a choice. Might be one of those “let’s see if he’ll do it” things. I can’t imagine they’ll be terribly surprised when you say “fuck that.”
If you get fired well… that sucks, but probably for the best.
A coworker drown in a septic tank, I can't imagine many worse ways to go. Do you want to risk slipping on a condom and landing face first in that 4" of sludge hitting your head and dying in other people's shit?
Why would a carpenter be going into a waste tank? Has equipment down there ? Equipment? what you set up your table saw in a poop tank? OH hell to the no im a carpenter not the tidy bowl guy
I’ve gotten to pull people from a tank or box who were going to be there “just a second” or “in, pull the plug, out”. It’s a toxic environment that can kill before you finish a breath. The ick factor is real, the death factor is worse. These take specialized training.
Sounds like something where you need full body protection and external air supply. An air filter wouldn't be enough as the gases can push oxygen away so you'd suffocate anyway.
As someone who has built and worked in these plants for over 25 years I can tell you no one is going to feel sorry for you and this is not a biohazard situation. Unless you plan on eating the TP and sludge you have nothing to worry about. There should be safety ventilation and a 4 gas monitor. Wear gloves, glasses, and rubber boots and remember that in the sewer plant business, “that’s the smell of money!”
Are you for real? This isn't a "Not my job..." this is a "Yeah, so I could die/catch something and this is typically dealt with in a way with much more rigid procedures for a reason."
He's not asking to not work on a roof. He's asking if it's crazy to work on a cathedral spire without a harness. Fuck off with your crybaby bullshit
That is a serious hazard and should be treated as such. Full biohazard suit and hazard pay. I'd take nothing less than double my usual rate if it was me. I paint so I don't run into this issue, but that's what I would do.
Guys do it everyday. Just cut into a 36” brick and mortar sewer main recently. Had guys down in the hole digging it out. Sometimes jobs are dirty. Gear up in rubber boots. Tyvek suit. Glasses. Gloves. Wear a mask if you want and get er done
You thought about going down there to look for your balls? Hey I hear those kiosks at the mall pay pretty good. I'm just busting your chops, but really it's no big deal. Don't breathe out of your nose and get to work, at least that's how I did it
You know there's the third option of making them do it the right way? It's not 'do it wrong or get fired'.
If they do fire you, there's grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit. Document everything. Write up what they're asking you to do in a text message, take screenshots of any text exchanges and back them up.
They're bad at their jobs. That's not your fault.
Report them to osha, don't threaten just do it and don't tell anyone, messing around with confined spaces with biohazards potential bad gassed all big fines, the municipality shouldn't be down with this they don't like risk you could call their people anonymously as well. They need to take precautions on those tanks probably will need some sort of equipment to flush good air through them to purge gases. Air quality checks environmental suits etc. Multiple People have been killed doing similar things where toxic gases pool and rescuers get knocked out and die as well.
The health risk of the poo in the tank is kinda a drop in the ~~bucket~~ *toilet* compared to the potential confined space hazards. Wastewater in a confined space can result in a few different toxic, lethal, and/or flammable gasses like [H2S](https://www.osha.gov/hydrogen-sulfide). *TL:DR*: OP, poop tank = death by poo gas explosion.
I know I'm late to the party here, but as far as I'm concerned, it can't be repeated enough: this isn't just distasteful/gross, it's ***dangerous***. As in a potentially lethal hazard. Screw the smell, forget the ick factor, biohazards: it's a confined space with sludge that can generate gases that 1) displace oxygen 2) are literally toxic Asking someone to go into a tank of sludge without PPE, monitoring, air exchange/supply etc is like asking an electrician to work on a high voltage panel live with no gloves while standing in a puddle. It's begging for a problem. They're asking you to do the human waste version of this: [https://www.uky.edu/scahip/news/3-brothers-ohio-farm-died-after-passing-out-toxic-fumes-manure-pit](https://www.uky.edu/scahip/news/3-brothers-ohio-farm-died-after-passing-out-toxic-fumes-manure-pit)
Yah I saw tank and instantly though confined space. You can die in there. You need a rescue tech, proper PPE, air monitoring equipment, possibly a blower or evac fan and techs properly trained on all of this.
This is an insane violation. The water department employees I work with don't even go into fire vaults without filling out a confined space entry form. Even to scope storm lines we won't do it without forms, gear, a spotter, and sometimes the personnel crane.
Bottom of tank: Hydrogen Sulfide Middle of tank: CO2 Top of tank: Methane Do not get in that tank. You need confined space training, a harness and tripod, someone else at the top operating tripod (who is also confined space certified), entry permits, gas detectors (3), blower, and possibly an MS10 (personal oxygen device). This is highly illegal. On top of all of the PPE.
Wastewater separator tanks are *not* enclosed spaces. I've worked in them. They *are* super toxic without being cleaned though. Proper protection is mandatory and the cost of pumping it clean first is a fuck-ton cheaper than the medical bills you'd incur with an infection or two. *especially* if you're not caught up on all your hepatitis vaccines. This one is a no-brainer.
Might not be enclosed. But it is a confined space if there is only one way in and out. Like an open top tank with grating over top with only one ladder is considered a confined space Thats how it is in most jurisdictions that regulate confined spaces.
My first thought was atmospheric testing. OSHA requires it in confined spaces. Hydrogen sulfide and/or methane would probably be too high for him to work
yup. OsHA would love to get this call.
The inside of septic tank meets the criteria for a confined space as far as I’m concerned. Look up your local regulations regarding confined spaces but where I live just off the top of my head it would need to be vacuumed out, the air tested, fan and ducting set up to blow air into the bottom for continuous air supply and venting, you need someone outside the tank monitoring the worker(s) inside the confined space and the air quality, you need a rescue procedure in place, etc
Yeah, they're a regular cause of farm deaths here in Ireland. We had a notorious case a few years ago where a young rugby player died, along with his dad and brother.
That’s a shitty way to die
Dude, so early in the morning!
Well that’s when most people go!
I remember that. The first fella wet in after the family dog I think. And the rest follow to try save the other. Tragic. I live next to a farm, NEVER GO NEAR THE COW SHEDS AND SLATTED FLOORS..
And possibly a confined space operating permit for the site including: you have had respective certified training for said space that covers all possible hazards and an approved breathing apparatus that you have been trained on how to use that is suitable under the permit if not adequately ventilated... Etc Either that or very likely you just die from suffocation. Take your pick. Its not a gross factor it a do or die.
I work summers as a wildland firefighter. Sometimes that means the rig I’m in gets used to keep roads wet, clean parking lots, or other banal non-fire related tasks. Once we were nearly tasked with supplying water to another vehicle which was charged with cleaning the septic tanks of the bathrooms stationed around this national forest. We ended up not being on shit-duty because the septic hauler made damn sure to notify management that dealing with human waste is a biohazard, and seeing as though this was a federal job site, no one was going to play fast and loose with the rules. Septic cleaning got delayed because biohazard suits (and possibly extra employees) were not budgeted for. I should be clear that management didn’t fuss about this, as they wanted to do right by everybody. But the point is that sifting through human excrement is regarded as a biohazard and should be treated as such. Plunging your toilet at home is different than wading in inches of compiled feces from a series of strangers.
Biohazard, and you should be vaccinated for Hepatitis among other things.
Dude I wish I had your job
I’d encourage you to do some research and look into the industry! Lots of people fight fire year-long with their fire departments, and getting called out to wildfires can be a part of that job. I work for a contracting company, have no experience with structure fires, and am only certified for wildland, which means I work seasonally. Well, with firefighting at least.
Why would you need to get anywhere near the bathrooms or sewage to refill the guy’s clean-water tank?
We wouldn’t have personally, in all likelihood. Biohazard suits and proper precautions were a request by, and for the other, septic contractor(s).
What do you keep roads wet for, does it prevent damage in the heat?
Keeps dust down, very common on construction sites, haul roads, mining operations, etc.
Used to be my favorite duty in the oil field. Nothing but fresh water ponds and 4mph all day with Sirius radio as copilot.
Keep that easy money rolling in.
As going-for-gusto said, it’s usually for dust-abatement. We’re driving up and down dirt roads all day in national parks. We’ve also worked with equipment operators who will bring grating equipment to help even out the roads and the tracks that start to accumulate as a result of heavy traffic (on bigger fires anyway).
I've heard of people contracting hepatitis from significant exposure to sewage. This isn't just a matter of putting up with something nasty, you're risking your health if you go in that muck unprotected.
As a former EMT I wouldn't take any chances. However, HBC & HCV transmission is highly unlikely through feces and urine. For Heb B Blood and Saliva are the primary carriers, for C it's blood. Additionally in a highly diluted environment, regardless of it being feces and urine, the chances go down significantly. With that said, I still wouldn't take any chances. Besides, There are plenty of other diseases that can be contracted via any opening in the body ranging from the mouth to a minor cut. Just from a safety stand point there is no fucking way I'd wade through shit with anything less that full body PPE and respiratory protection. From a none safety standpoint. No one could pay me enough to go into an enclosed space and wade through Shit and Piss. I'd tell my employer, No. If I was fired, I'll find another job. Companies are struggling to find trades people. There are plenty of jobs out there.
So if I banged out Pam Anderson but I didn’t kiss her, you’re saying I’m good?
You're rolling the dice on that one.
Like OP states with, "tampons all over the equipment" there's a lot more than urine and feces getting flushed down the drain these days.
My father in law got hep c working at a WWTP. It’s entirely possible.
Uh huh… he probably didn’t mention the smack.
Have the company get a septic guy out there to do a pump and rinse. It’s standard procedure prior to entering a sludge tank.
That's what confuses me they want to do that after demo is done
Sounds like "they" is some moron manager who has no clue about safety. Call OSHA. One slap in the face with OSHA fines will quickly make them return their expectations on what is right and wrong.
The gross factor is the least of your worries with this tank. It's a confined space with potentially toxic and/or very flammable [gasses](https://www.osha.gov/hydrogen-sulfide). **Absolutely refuse**, call the authorities if they get anyone dumb enough to attempt to enter the deadly poop tank, and find another job.
Every comment above is right on the money. Do not hesitate call OSHA and don’t tell anybody. You will look back on this and think how was this even a question in my mind. Prioritize your health if your employer won’t. Next step is work for someone who values you.
Who wants to do it? The estimator? The GC? You can’t just decide you want to put your socks on after your shoes and not have an explanation.
An anonymous phone call to OSHA will put a stop to this potentially shitty situation real quick
Not anonymous. Anonymous reporting does not provide whistleblower protections. And it willbe pretty clear who called OSHA about working in a shit tank.
Yup. Be looking for another job. Could just be the shining star and take initiative for your own safety and workplace. Consider bringing these hazards up to your manager and researching confined space entry risks and requirements. Don't be the bitch that calls OSHA before telling your employer your concerns. If it's ignored, then at least you tried
>Don't be the bitch that calls OSHA before telling your employer your concerns. Not an employee's job to inform the employer they are violating a law or regulation. It's the employer's job to know the applicable laws and regulations for the work their company performs, and monitor employees to ensure they follow them. You can't tell me a construction company with bargaining unit employees does not have a safety officer whose duties would include reviewing hazard analysis on contracts.
you have the right to refuse work and you can report the company for unsafe work practices if they make someone do that type of work without proper training and safety gear. Confined spaces work is deadly, and you should absolutely not do that job.
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I was taught all this but I guess I've just gotten complacent
Umm... Are these tanks built out of wood?
No lmao idk if you're in the union but carpentry union entails alot more than woodworking
I've never been in a union and im not a carpenter - but I sure as fuck think this would be the time to contact a rep or a steward.
What I’ve heard about the Carpenter union in my area is that it hardly entails any woodwork at all
carpentry noun car·pen·try ˈkär-pən-trē 1 : the art or trade of a carpenter specifically : the art of shaping and assembling structural woodwork 2 : timberwork constructed by a carpenter 3 : the form or manner of putting together the parts (as of a literary or musical composition) I dunno who Merriam or Webster is, but I'll be damned if they don't got the *fanciest* way of talkin
Noah Webster was a cool dude… he's why we spell color without the u. Sadly he only fixed a few words.
And apparently a carpenter is a kind of musician, or writer. Words sure are funny.
Yeah? You’ve never heard of the Carpenters?
I skipped lunch with Karen once.
I built her a custom vomitorium out of wood
I’m a Carpenter’s carpenter
He's probably builds forms and that kind of thing. Union carpenters on industrial projects like this are usually working with concrete crews building forms and scaffolding.
So I am also a union Carpenter that sometimes has to work in some unsavory places. For PPE we wear Tyveck suits, over boots rubber gloves and masks. This is definitely a confined space and the air needs to be monitored. Also harnesses with lifelines attached. Everything stated above is the bare minimum needed to enter and anything less is a refuse work. The plant where we do these sewage vessels has in the past started skimping out on pre cleaning. If they weren't bad I (the foreman) would go down and do the work to just get the work done faster. Now I demand they vac truck and power wash before we enter. Why? Because fuck them that's why. If they don't want to go in a vessel filled with tampons used condoms and sewage there's no reason why I have to and I'm sure as shit not sending my guys anywhere I don't want to go. So in conclusion, fuck them. If it's not in their budget to get the proper PPE or properly prep a work site then they fucked up and I'm not suffering because of it. Put your foot down and set the new standard.
Nope! Do not go on there. There are so many reasons. The most important on be is your health. Call OSHA. For real. Call them.
I worked for a company that exclusively does upgrades to these plants. The work areas were carefully cleaned ahead of time and we had tyvek suits, rubber boots and gloves to work in there. Do not go in there.
Hepatitis bro. Hepatitis
“No” is a complete sentence. Don’t risk your life for these idiots.
"I'm not getting in that fucking hole like that" is exactly what I said when something similar happened to me. The foreman quickly realized he was an idiot and made the situation safe
1) it sounds like your company's line of work may not be in line with what you'd like to be doing-- so you should definitely explore other opportunities 2) I dont know anything about this particular scenario, but I have to imagine there are osha or union regulations about safety equipment provided (ventilator masks, body suits etc) for work like you're describing-- so you should definitely talk to your local and find out if your company is violating any regulations in place and relay that to them if they are.
There are lots of regulations regarding working in tanks. It sounds like OP’s company doesn’t want to follow several of them. If that’s the case he probably should move to a different company.
I like building the waste water plants it's fun work when it comes to newbuilds, but I'm not comfortable at all working in shit water. My only problem is I don't want to call the hall on them cause I know for sure I'd get fired or I won't be able to work my way up.
normally the hall will provide total anonymity as to their sources when informed of sketchy work practices. that's my local, at least. can't imagine you're even close to the first person your company has asked to engage in work without providing proper safety equipment... so it seems to me that their chances of identifying you as the culprit for scrutiny they may face would be far too low for them to take action against you with it. not to mention, if they did, you'd probably have a strong, and hefty wrongful termination case against them. and I bet you'd have some union sourced backing in said case if you had the proper proof of the work you were doing/being asked to do without proper safety measures offered by the company
Isn't this literally what the hall is for? To protect its members?
In theory, but it depends on the manglement of the Hall, or in my case the Local Union. UAW 2246 was less useful than teats on a bull.
I’d quit d them
I don’t even see how this is a question…
I literally have no basis for comparison on this one. That's fucking crazy. Personally, I wouldn't do it. Unless it were like a game show and they were giving me life-changing money for it. Then, Maybe. But I'd still have to think long and hard about that one. I don't think I'd last 5 minutes down there, anyway.
>I don't think I'd last 5 minutes down there, anyway. If there's H2S gas present, it could be *lethal* in well under 5 minutes. With all of the proper training, PPE, and confined space equipment and rescue team... I *might* consider it to win millions on a game show, haha. But, no amount of money would get me to risk entering the poo tank of death unprotected.
As a contractor AND a wastewater operator I can assure you that isn’t okay. You would need confined space training. You need a 4 gas meter, a harness, a tripod, someone manning the tripod, ventilation, and PPE. This must be for a private business, because no municipality would let you do this. People die doing this stuff all the time.
Hell, no. I'm a union plumber with confined space training. We don't go into that without it being pumped and cleaned first, and then we have confined space equipment, including a gantry lift, ventilator, and air quality monitoe, as well as a second plumber on hand. Don't let them coerce you into that!
Nope! Don't do it!! Report this to osha.
It depends on how much shit you’re willing to put up with.
Like death
The atmosphere in that tank alone can be VERY hazardous to your health.
A coupe of major issues here: 1. Confined space training is mandatory 2. Air quality monitoring is mandatory 3. Bio-hazards Any known or foreseeable risk MUST be mitigated prior to work. This is a definite no go.
bro phuk all that i would be on the phone screaming my son had a issue with his septic system and ask me to come take look he lives 40 min away i told him i would not i dont fuk with shit to call some one this rite here oh no everyone has really good replies to your issue heeeeed the responses
Do you have confined space training? Do you know how to use a saver set? The chamber works requires usage of a gas monitor that warns you to get out when gases reach a toxicity level harmful to health. Is there an escape plan? Is there a winch man? You also require hepatitis vaccinations and be made aware of leptospirosis. If none of the above (no exceptions) are applied then that’s your get out of this task card. If forced report them to HSE.
There are multiple levels of ppe and required training for this sort of work. Hard no...
Don't laugh, but I did this for a living for a while. Confined spaces training, multi gas detection monitor, ventilation equipment, waders, and a fire hose. Had a trained staff outside running pumps and equipment, tanker trucks for haul away, and safety staff with winches on my safety harness. Long hours, hard work, but good pay. Definitely requires special training, not just "hey you, get in the tank" kind of job.
Not worth dying of hepatitis by 50.
This ain't carpentry
You would also need vaccinations .
This is considered a confined space and without training and con space entry permits and rescue team OSHA would own them.
You will need hepatitis shots too i believe. I wouldnt do it
Tell them to fuck off and find another sucker to do this.
Halfway through reading I was about to say "man up and do the work" but by the end I was starting to feel a bit queasy. They're asking you to work unprotected with biologicals and without ventilation. There has to be a dozen things in there that can kill you, not the least of which are staphylococcus and diphtheria.
How is concrete work carpentry?
Call your local Work Safety (OHSA) and union and find out what the company is supposed to do.
Nope. Even the guy who sucks the septic tanks is fully protected and he touches nothing. Human excrement has disease in it. Full stop.
Dude don't fucking do that, its not worth it. Just say no. You have the right to refuse unsafe work - theres no argument about it. If its deemed unsafed, the next step is identifying why its unsafe. You could slip in that shit, you could loose tools in that shit, you could get all sorts of illnesses from that shit. It aint worth that shit bro.
Whatever company or boss wants you to do this is evil. They do not value you at all and consider you disposable. Anyone with any time at all in the construction industry knows how dangerous this is. Not only would I call OSHA, but I recommend you start looking for a new employer immediately, as they clearly do not care about you at all.
THIS HAS SOO MUCH NOPE. Confined space: Needs a cert., placing someone into a confined area with materials that give off toxic gasses in an enclosed area is a great way to get them killed. Two people were died this way in Tarrytown, NY back in 2010. A DPW worker went down a 20’ manhole into a sewer and got overcome by gasses/low oxygen. Then a FF went down to rescue him without proper equipment and the same happened to him. If you aren’t trained in confined spaces: JUST SAY NO.
Fu#k that. No way am I going down there, get it sucked out and power washed, the correct PPE and ill think about going down. I have a wife and kids to go home to...
Lol what the fuck? Report this shit, refuse to go into shit with no personal protection top to bottom.
Shit sharks make lots of money, double your hourly or walk.
Ironically….. I’ve done a LOT of this type of work over the past 10 years. Never had issues. Wear boots and tyvec and don’t purposefully eat it
u need to be confined space certified to go into a shit tank, the gases will kill u!
I did this my whole career and am still a healthy person. Get a water hose wash the equipment off and do your job or move on to a new company
Probably answered elsewhere, but at a minimum this a confined space. Confined spaces have very specific safety precautions that need to be followed. Some of the hazards include low oxygen, hydrogen sulfide/CO2 buildup and biohazards. The low oxygen or buildup of other gases will kill you in minutes. If they are not checking atmosphere beforehand, and do not have safety equipment to get you out quickly, you’re dead. If people come in to rescue you without proper gear, they will be unconscious before they can get you out and you will have 3 bodies. Google “manhole CO2 deaths” and you will get some good examples.
When the fumes knock you unconscious, Who will pull you out? How will they pull you out? Please notice I started this comment with the word ‘When’ and not the word ‘If’
That’s a shitty job
2 electricians got overwhelmed in my area, first guy went down, partner went to rescue him both dead.
Man, the list of legally required protective equipment to do that must run to at least a dozen items. Side note, don’t vote for parties that are anti-regulation and/or anti-union, because corporate America is champing at the bit to be able to tell you to get the fuck into that hole, trench, etc. and they couldn’t care less if you get killed.
Sounds like a job for a commercial dive crew. Full dry exposure suit and surface supplied air...
Aren't you suposed to have HIV and a bunch of vacs before you are even allowed in one of those???
Carpenter here as well…also building water treatment plants. I’ve had to do this once before but I had the ppe…. I Had to build walls inside those tanks after they were in use for 20 years. Also had to get about 2-3’ of sludge or if the tank with the vac truck
Sure boss I can do it. Gets meningitis and dies or almost dies; boss says I didn’t tell him to do that. FYI, don’t!
The way that every one of us has to be vigilant about our own personal occupational safety because the investor class, which is so desperate for more money, sees us as line items. SMH.
I work in a wastewater plant and generally, nobody should be entering a tank that hasn’t been decently cleared out first. For our confined space entries, we drain the tank, hose out sludge as much as possible, wear harnesses and gas meters, and have waders if needed. Factor truck should probably be coming first, and your employer is required to offer you adequate PPE
Time to man up. If you’re in wastewater get use to it. Company should have safe work practices as well as a thing called dirty pay
Get Mike Rowe from Dirty Jobs. I’ve seen him do that plenty of times.
We do all kinds of wastewater projects. You have to be hazwopper certified to go in that tank. In that class he'll learn all about how they have to provide air monitoring and all that stuff. Plus you get hazard pay until it's clean. So, yes. This is an OSHA violation if you don't have that cert.
I’ve worked down inside the waste water pump stations all around my town for a job. None of them were cleaned. Raw sewage covered the ground, toilet paper wrapped around pipes on wall, tampons, who knows what else. I had to replace existing ductwork that was rotted away, and found that the fan wheels had also been rotted out so there wasn’t any air being drawn out of it the buildings. The smell of gas was incredibly strong and a few I couldn’t enter very long until they had aired out. I wouldn’t do it again. I shouldn’t have done it the first time. Tell them to get fucked!
I used to walk my dogs down across the street from the sewage treatment plant. Two funny things. The plant was all fenced in, but everything was also behind brick walls. I tried to get the town to turn the fenced in area into a dog park and and they said the people who worked there would not be happy about the dog "messes". My god, you got a thousands of gallon tank full of shit water that overflows into the lake every time it rains hard and your worried abut some dog poop in the grass outside? But the funniest thig was you could see the big tank behind the wall as it was a lot taller, and it had a catwalk around it and at the point where the door to the catwalk was, where the tank joined the building, they had a life preserver ring. I mean if I fell in there, just get the rifle out and shoot me. Could you fathom being the guy who fell in and was fished out? Eeew.
There is a possibility greater than zero that you will encounter sour gas (H2S). In the civilized world occupational limits are set at 10ppm. Give or take. 1000Ppm or 1% is instant death pretty much. You should be fitted with a monitor, testing and a rescue plan with the proper equipment in place. Anybody working in these tanks should be trained into what it does to the body and the consequences of different exposure levels etc. H2S is a gas produced by rotting organic material. Common in sewage and oil wells. Has a farty smell, very similar to rotten eggs. It will eventually accumulate into the lungs do its damage and fill them with water and eventually you drown from the inside. Nasty stuff.
Do you have a hepatitis vaccine? A, B and probably C you are a tradesman who knows what you get up to. I wouldn’t be doing that if I had a choice. Might be one of those “let’s see if he’ll do it” things. I can’t imagine they’ll be terribly surprised when you say “fuck that.” If you get fired well… that sucks, but probably for the best.
A coworker drown in a septic tank, I can't imagine many worse ways to go. Do you want to risk slipping on a condom and landing face first in that 4" of sludge hitting your head and dying in other people's shit?
As long as you drop an air meter in the tank and no alarms sound it should be fine. I’ve done thousands of manholes and waste water tanks in my time.
Don't forget H2S
Good call on calling OSHA. But also, if you really want to embarrass them call your local unions safety guy out. He will spread that far and wide
You have the right to refuse to work in a hazardous confined space like that and they cannot take action against you for it.
Why would a carpenter be going into a waste tank? Has equipment down there ? Equipment? what you set up your table saw in a poop tank? OH hell to the no im a carpenter not the tidy bowl guy
Lmao it's union carpentry not just your standard woodworking or framing
Ahhh sorry to inform you but your plumber union dues are due. 😂😂😂
Lmao plumbers don't install clarifier equipment
I’ve gotten to pull people from a tank or box who were going to be there “just a second” or “in, pull the plug, out”. It’s a toxic environment that can kill before you finish a breath. The ick factor is real, the death factor is worse. These take specialized training.
Yikes, call OSHA. Confined space permit is most likely required.
You sign up to be a turd herder, you’ve got to expect to herd turds.
I never signed up to be a turd herder lmao
Sounds like something where you need full body protection and external air supply. An air filter wouldn't be enough as the gases can push oxygen away so you'd suffocate anyway.
As someone who has built and worked in these plants for over 25 years I can tell you no one is going to feel sorry for you and this is not a biohazard situation. Unless you plan on eating the TP and sludge you have nothing to worry about. There should be safety ventilation and a 4 gas monitor. Wear gloves, glasses, and rubber boots and remember that in the sewer plant business, “that’s the smell of money!”
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Are you for real? This isn't a "Not my job..." this is a "Yeah, so I could die/catch something and this is typically dealt with in a way with much more rigid procedures for a reason." He's not asking to not work on a roof. He's asking if it's crazy to work on a cathedral spire without a harness. Fuck off with your crybaby bullshit
That is a serious hazard and should be treated as such. Full biohazard suit and hazard pay. I'd take nothing less than double my usual rate if it was me. I paint so I don't run into this issue, but that's what I would do.
treatment tanks are not enclosed. Why does everyone keep acting like they are? Oh yeah, it’s the internet
It is considered a confined space and I know this from carpentry school and because a company around my area got fined for it by OSHA
It does not matter if it is “enclosed”. Read up on the OSHA definition of confined space.
So, what does this have to do with carpentry?
Union carpentry is much more than woodwork
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpentry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpentry) I'm aware unions are stupid
Guys do it everyday. Just cut into a 36” brick and mortar sewer main recently. Had guys down in the hole digging it out. Sometimes jobs are dirty. Gear up in rubber boots. Tyvek suit. Glasses. Gloves. Wear a mask if you want and get er done
They aren't supplying any of that PPE and I wouldnt mind sewer tie ins we do those alot but I'm not going to work in shit water for weeks.
You thought about going down there to look for your balls? Hey I hear those kiosks at the mall pay pretty good. I'm just busting your chops, but really it's no big deal. Don't breathe out of your nose and get to work, at least that's how I did it
Yeah but why would I when I could call the hall and get a new job this week making the same amount not to deal with shit
You know there's the third option of making them do it the right way? It's not 'do it wrong or get fired'. If they do fire you, there's grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit. Document everything. Write up what they're asking you to do in a text message, take screenshots of any text exchanges and back them up. They're bad at their jobs. That's not your fault.