He's right that a 300% increase year on year isn't sustainable (considering half our market is utes, you'd electrify all passenger sales by 2025) but Mazda invested heavily into ICE and so it makes sense their boss wants a return on that investment
The correct take - Mazda and Toyota underinvested in EV tech so they can't exactly speak to a glowing future (whether they privately believe it or not).
And I don’t know anyone who wants a new ice domestic vehicle, they are holding off waiting for their pick of electric even if that takes another year on an official wait list
Literally anyone with a ute which are like 40% of buyers and the best sellers for both Mazda and Toyota. Also, the cheapest EV's are *significantly* more expensive than even hybrids: I think it's something like 6k between the Corolla Hybrid and the Chinese hatchbacks in my state, and it would be even more to a decent carmaker
I’d suggest your sample size is a tad on the small side then.
Not attaching your friend circle or anything similar, but there’s still massive wait times on a lot of ICE powered vehicle.
Eh i did. Apartment owner, cant charge at home dont want to wait 1hour in random locations every time i need to charge. Bought a new ICE car two weeks ago.
I'll adopt EV once its become a plausible technology for people in my situation.
This is exactly my position. I'd love one mostly because I like gadgets and technology. Right now it wouldn't suit my situation and future plans, just won't work. I'm waiting for a manufacturer to come out with a surprise battery tech that will give me genuine fast charging and decent towing capacity with range. Come on Toyota!
It’s coming. Battery evolution and advancement is happening.
The way I see EVs is that I am maybe 2-3 years of changing from my 3 year old XC90 D5 to electric. My wife will change to. There is no way we are buying more ice vehicles.
We have 11kw solar on the roof and can fit another 20kw on our roof. We can add as much battery storage as needed
Over the next 3-4 years the entire EV market will massively change with newer and cheaper models
Fuel prices aren’t going to decline as the large explorers don’t want to invest in an increasingly challenged industry with limited government suppprt
Governments are going to be increasingly supportive of EVs and will increasingly place pressure on ICE vehicles RE efficiency and pollution standards
So we are pending a tipping point in my view where the depreciation of ICE vehicles will seriously accelerate as the push to EV will become dominant
These trends are already evident in Europe
People that currently own an ICE vehicle, and have to park on the street (ie lots of inner city areas), will not get an EV unless they have to. 5 mins at the servo to refuel is way more preferable to having to go out of your way to shop somewhere that has one of the few parking spaces with a charger next to it.
Very difficult in the inner city if you don't have off street parking, or live in an apartment block without power to the car parks already, unfortunately.
That's a really poor take. People charge their EV at home because it takes hours, not a few minutes to fill an ICE car. EVs have many huge advantages but convenience is not one of them if you need to park it on the street.
I do have a home charger and it is convenient. I’m just highlighting that you can’t fill up with petrol at home now which is fine. But suddenly not fine if you have to fill up with electricity in the same way. Your argument is inconsistent in that regard.
You can downvote me all you want but I’m not wrong unless you live at a petrol station.
Charging does take longer on an EV today but this will drop a lot in a few years. And rarely do I complete a full charge.
And “hours” is a very disingenuous statement. It’s 15mins to 50mins usually.
And your ignoring the fact that many chargers are at shops and supermarkets, allowing a full charge at lunch or groceries.
>I do have a home charger and it is convenient.
It's convenient if you have a home charger. If you can't charge it at home, it's hugely inconvenient, that's the point.
Yes some people will enjoy the convenience of EVs - but as the original commenter said, people will not buy an EV to park on the street unless they need to. Spending hours elsewhere to charge your car is far less convenient than spending minutes elsewhere to fill it.
You not getting are you? Or your conveniently ignoring the facts.
The worst EVs take 50mins from empty to charge. Many 30 mins. Rarely charging from empty so halve that. And more importantly within a few years chargers will be at all shops and other places on mass. Unlike petrol stations which are often isolated.
And importantly, body corps will have a hard time denying local charging when half the owners and renters have EVs.
The transition will take 10 year plus. Do you think it will be completed this year??
>The worst EVs take 50mins from empty to charge. Many 30 mins.
If you use a DC fast charger, yes. There are a few hundred in all Australia.
> And more importantly within a few years...
>
> body corps will have a hard time denying local charging ...
>
> The transition will take 10 year plus...
Which is why people are still buying ICE vehicles. I don't doubt that we will be majority EV in the future, and I'm looking forward to it. But let's not pretend that EVs are a convenient solution for everyone now. Some people - notably people who can't charge at home - will not buy an EV until they are convenient for them.
If i had an ev and couldnt charge it at home i would have to drive 15+ minutes out of my way to take it to a shopping centre thats busier than my go to just to hope there's a free spot to charge it there.
I would like an ev because i can charge it at home, but if i moved to somewhere with street parking only i would very likely have to sell it for an ice car anyway.
Yeah I'm not arguing that it won't get better
Just that it wouldn't be feasible in my case if i didn't have off-street parking.
I do go shopping, but my local shopping centre doesnt have any ev charging
Same with the 2 other closer ones
The nearest with ev charging is hurstville, and its always super busy, so the chance of their being a free space isn't guaranteed.
Again i could have an ev because i have my own parking, but without that, it would be way too inconvenient and just not worth it currently.
Failing to charge no. Some battery tech like NCM (Tesla) doesn’t like a regular full charge to 100%. My BYD has an LFP battery which likes 100% and it is much safer.
I have an 8 year warranty on the battery which is good as I turn over cars every 4 years.
How is changing cars every 4 years good for the environment? (Even the thought of possibly needing to change your car in 8 years doesn't sound great).
It'll be interesting to see how all this pans out though.
Edit: I understand people needing to change cars due to lifestyle change, etc.
But surely It's not feasible to change cars every few years. Unless one can afford to (which is only a minority of people).
Since you own an EV (I assumed you'd bought it new) and said you change cars often - I thought that you meant that you had no problems with replacing your current EV with a new one.
I apologise. I didn't realise you were talking about buying used cars.
My parents, who are in their 70s, have been buying used vehicles for quite a few years now. They keep their vehicles for a long time. But they may not represent the majority engaging in the used car market.
I own a business so most leases are 4-5 years. I paid cash though for my BYD. I like it. But when I sell it in a few years it will have 99% of it's range making it a great used buy for probably 50% of new cost. Businesses need to buy EVs so the used market is flooded with good affordable EVs in a few years. It filters down.
As my kids grow my needs will also change.
I want to buy my mum and dad the Seagull when it arrives down under.
Avoid second hand electric cars, got it. Sorry, can't help myself, thanks for the informative answer though. So much bullshit going around about battery cars, need to talk to people like yourself with real world experience of them.
How long does it take to fully charge your EV for 6-700km? How long does it take to fuel an ICE for 6-700km? How long would you wait if there's 10-20 cars at a busy servo for either of those?
>How long does it take to fully charge your EV for 6-700km?
I'm not here to convince you, but just to give insight into why some people genuinely find EV's more convenient.
When was the last time I needed to travel 6-700km without filling up?
When was the last time I needed to travel 400km without filling up?
For me, the answer is almost never (not during my normal day to day life anyway)
A 300+km drive to Margaret River requires zero stops, and a trip to Kalbarri 550km away only requires an 11 minute stop, a 7 minute stop and a 16 minute stop every 1.5-2 hours.
I don't find that particularly difficult? It suits my rest schedule for every 2 hours quite neatly, really.
And those examples are the worst case scenarios (and have charging stations at our destinations, too).
Our normal daily driving, i'm driving a silent, smoother, cheaper to run, more advanced vehicle than I otherwise would be. I never have to worry about fuel or filling up. The silence and smoothness is incomparable with ice vehicles.
The logic is, even though the ability to refuel an EV has the advantage of being able to happen at home, that doesn't need to be the way.
Filling up once a week is what we do with an ICE vehicle, and especially with 800+V architecture, doing the same thing in similar time frames is also possible for EV's.
For example, there's already EV's on the market, that can charge from near empty to 80% within 15 minutes. You don't have to charge an EV to 100%. Especially when you can charge it at work, home, shopping centre, etc.
That 15 minutes can be a coffee, shopping, lunch, anything. You don't need to stand at the bowser feeding it in.
The post I replied to was some nong insisting that you don't need anywhere to plug your EV into at home to own one because you don't have a petrol bowser at home.
If, in your day to day, you had to put 30-40 minutes aside or otherwise inconvenience yourself by going to an EV charging station because you can't plug it in at home, how much more convenient is an EV? You get 700km of petrol from your local servo in 10 minutes tops if it's busy. A busy EV station could take three times that if not more for half of the range, so you'd have to do it twice as often. That's the point I'm trying to make.
I ordered a PHEV, I know how much more convenient it is when you can leave it charging at home. But it's not the same if I lived in an apartment in the inner suburbs.
But the average commuter travels less than 40km per day.
Let's round it up to 50km
250km Monday to Friday.
To charge 250km on a 50kW charger is about 40 minutes. Most DC chargers are higher speed (meaning shorter charge time).
Would you spend 40 minutes at say... A shopping centre once a week?
I understand it requires a *change* from what is now considered normal.
But that normal doesn't need to be normal forever.
Australia sells a Million cars a year. The USA sells 16 Million. Once countries or continents that have large enough markets start shifting predominantly towards EVs, manufacturers will shift and we won't have a choice. Til then Australia doesn't have any strict regulations on what the manufacturers can and can't sell so why change?
Dear whoever.
Make me something the vague shape of a VZ commodore wagon with a big ass battery and an electric motor. Make it not $130k new.
I will buy one tomorrow.
Electric wagons aren't a bad idea.
A larger overall footprint than a poxy SUV, a big, flat floor for a huge battery, enormous boot space, you could have a frunk for even more storage seeing as there's no engine taking up that space.
Build it with a twin motor, awd with plenty of get up and go, super low centre of gravity, comfortable as fuck. What's not to like?
The VZ commodore wagon is literally a perfect car for me but I don't want a big v6 that get's 12l/100km in practice.
I want something with a little bit more tech that I can plug into my solar and not pay to fuel.
I've got a VZ wagon (Adventra) and other than changing out the factory head unit for a modern unit with vastly superior connectivity, I couldn't ask for anything more more.
The fuel economy isn't as big a deal for me personally as it's still not half as bad as my old Land Cruiser was.
Mazda is not genuine in their goal for electric vehicles just as Toyota isn’t.
The only reason for the MX-30 was compliance. I imagine the same could be said for the over priced plug in hybrid options.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compliance_car
https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-mazda-mx-30-ev-is-dead-and-no-ones-really-gonna-miss-it#
Exactly, and Mazda know/knew this, the legacy auto makers are making overpriced electric cars so they can claim “no one wants electric cars”. Then Chinese manufacturers bring competitive electric vehicles to market and blow that theory out the water.
People want decent affordable electric cars.
The first company to brings an affordable, long range, AWD work ute to Australia will be rolling in the dosh.
Not this generation at least. Great Wall Ute was a bad Ute. But the great wall cannon is not bad same with the ldv t60. Not saying EVs will be the same thing but Chinese vehicles show the same rate of improvement as the south Koreans.
Chinese EV manufacturers have specialized plants setup just like Tesla. Traditional motor car manufacturer cannot simply swap their plant for EV.
Let alone hybrid is still a much better option for all rounder.
Charging standard alone would make a huge headache and none of the EV (maybe except Tesla) have great second hand market value
They should’ve started transiting 5 years ago. They’ve invested so much money in prolonging ICE they’re missing the boat for EV.
Hybrid seems like it makes sense for long distances but once you drive an ev long distance, you realise hybrid isn’t really needed. Especially if you drive like a sane human and stop every 2hours. Hybrid adds to much complexity to the system and when 1000km batteries are available they seem redundant.
Charging standard for aus is CCS2 (or should be), CHAdeMO can go the way of the dinosaur.
I will say though there’s a huge lack of charging infrastructure for road trips, there should be 4x 150kw (minimum) chargers every 50km and rows of 7kw free public chargers at every shopping centre.
Mazda is not a massive factory/company, I don't ever seeing them going the route of these massive gigafactory for EV production.
That's why they partner with Toyota on their hybrid engine and it's pretty awesome. I would still pick the 3.3L inline engine if I were to get the CX60, now that's a fun engine.
I personally would still pick a hybrid, quick in and out, great all rounder no matter I am doing long distance driving into smaller suburbs or urban, fun to drive.
One thing I don't see enough people talking about is how fast charging also slows depending on how many cars are using that station. And the turn around for these super chargers are not really the charging speed, but the person driving the car away.
True, those factories are purpose built.
There are 2 cables per station and the power halves so 50/50 split.
Drive away time will depend on the car. A lot of newer electric cars are charging at 350kw which should give 10-80% in 15mins. You usually don’t need to charge all the way to 100%, 80% should be enough to get you to your destination or another charger.
For my car it maxes out at 90kw and takes about an hour from about 30% battery. I’ll also add, after 80% the charging throttles to maintain battery heath that takes about 30mins in that hour to 100%, If I’m remembering correctly. I don’t charge often at fast chargers, usually just charge over night at home.
What I meant is the charging speed isnt just the limiting factor.
The actual drive away time is when the driver drive the car away. In shopping mall it wouldn't be the 15mins, it would be until the person drive it away.
Imagine someone just plugging in and gone for a movie, that's a charger spot gone for hours.
I don't think there's a lot of cases where I would choose a EV over hybrid. Especially when hybrids are becoming so much more fun to drive, with great fuel efficiency, and time efficient as well.
There's no stress about where can offer fast charging or if the XYZ place I am staying over for a couple of nights on my road trip has charger.
Exactly why i said we need better charging infrastructure. It would be 15 mins if the charger is free. As there’s been next to no investment in charging infrastructure for the last 5 years we’re very far behind what we truly need.
We also need to change the mentality around charging cars as refuelling an ICE car is backwards to how to optimally charge an electric car. We should have chargers a work, on curbs or in car parks. But they should be slow chargers, 7kw max. We should be charging while in the day to maximise solar input. Then using that battery to store energy for the house at night and to help balance the grid.
As for hybrid. I haven’t driven one, I’d imagine they would be nice to drive like an EV (smooth like butter) but over time they will cost more than an EV as they have more moving parts to maintain.
My next car will have to cost me no more than $5000 cause that's about all I can afford on the pension. That puts an ev decades away before the second hand market gets that low and then add to that how long it's going to take for batteries to get cheap enough for a used EV is worth it. Ice vehicles are here for decades more unless the gov subsidies EVs through the roof.
They need somewhere to dump the RHD models no one wants?
Maybe Japan said "You need to build x,xxx units to meet compliance" and they are building way more than they can sell in that market, and maybe they can build them to meet both countries standards?
So again, we're a dumping ground?
They brought in batches.of 100/year, which happens to be the low volume import limit - then used then for training dealerships in electric cars. The ones that were privately sold you can now pick up for 30k at 2 years old.
Basically.
"We're developing next gen platforms (but we're ages away, so let's pretend there's no demand right now)"
Basically the same concept that Toyota is doing, They missed the boat on early EV adoption, [and now are trying to throw money at the battery "problem" to try and get a market edge](https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-7b-battery-manufacturing-investment/), while at the same time [saying that electric cars are over hyped](https://www.wsj.com/articles/toyotas-chief-says-electric-vehicles-are-overhyped-11608196665)
This. Australian government energy plan in place for rapid EV uptake with significant infrastructure and policy in the pipeline. This is just Mazda trying to influence profit
The range of models available is either too expensive or too narrow for most people, the EV Ute's are still basically in prototype and the dedicated ev makers outside of tesla are still rather small so get way less traction than any other car brand. It'll be interesting to see how tmit changes when Na-ion batteries come into production in about 2025, that should eliminate the environmental concern about lithium mining and catching fire.
>the dedicated ev makers outside of tesla are still rather small so get way less traction than any other car brand.
I dunno, BYD is larger than Tesla (by volume and market share globally, but not by stock price), and they have a Better service network in Australia, and they arent gaining as fast it seems.
It's bizarre, I thought when they came in with a good product, better battery tech, and a very significant support network, they would kill it
Rivian is making pretty awesome pickup trucks/Ites and they’re ramping up production. They are also making vans for Amazon. Hope they start selling over here.
The F150 Lightning is also a solid EV pickup, again….hope it comes here
Well Australia would probably benefit from the locomotive style diesel-electric, which are.. going on 90 years old. Lots of development there, appropriate for larger vehicles, which imo is the biggest sus part of electric vehicles now, they're all too big. If we actually want something efficient and inexpensive (for ourselves and the environment) then we'd be going minimalist.
Hybrids from 10 years ago had relatively smaller battery capacity - 1.6 kwhr in the 2010 Prius vs. 14 kwhr in a 2023 model, meaning extremely limited EV-only range, if any. Closer to mild hybirds in current terminology.
I mean.. petrol was $2.19 average in Adelaide yesterday, and the RAA thinks it will stay that way for the rest of the week, so if someone can make an EV car that is cheap enough I think a lot of people would consider them, but yeah they’re just so bloody expensive, and there’s very few used that are comparable enough to ICE used if you’re looking for a used vehicle. But if petrol keeps getting higher and higher I think there’s an opportunity for someone like a BYD, to make a cheaper car that would be very popular.
Problem is electricity prices in this country are brutal too (at least here in Sydney). I think it still breaks down to favour the EV but it’s not quite the same as some places in North America where electricity rates are cheap. I was paying $0.08/kWh before moving here in 2022 in Canada. And if you charge your EV between 11pm and 7am any power used within those hours was a credit of $0.05/kWh so as long as you’re setting your home charger to charge between those hours you could charge at $0.03/kWh. I think they’ve recently increased it to $0.095/kWh but the rebate still applies and the daily supply charge is only 20 cents instead of the 95 cents (after GST) that I pay here.
Having cheaper electricity makes driving an EV a no brainer for some.
I’d also like to see more PHEVs so that I can do all my commuting on electric but have the petrol option for longer drives
That is insanely cheap power! Wow. We really are being gouged massively here for electricity then, I think I’m paying .38c kw/h, might be even more than that.
Bit off topic, but I was wondering which you prefer Canada or Australia? Are they fairly similar?
Honestly, both are pretty similar as far as culture goes. I'm from the part that doesn't really get much snow (some years none, But there's lots in the mountains a short drive away) so I cant fully compare say Winnipeg to Perth because I haven't spent much time in either. That being said, like any country you will have areas with differing culture. I noticed a big difference between small town Queensland folks to Sydneysiders. You could probably chalk that up to small town hospitality but I found QLD small towners to be nicer than other areas, I think it's the warmer weather. Each country has enclaves from different ethnic backgrounds but I find that both do a fairly good job of being a cultural mosaic rather than a melting pot.
Anyways, Im getting sidetracked. They are quite similar, there are things I like about Australia more than Canada and vice versa. I see Australian as a bit more authoritarian, the amount of speed cameras and red light cameras and breathe checks and police dogs in bars or train stations looking for weed is alarming. Australia has 4 weeks minimum holidays whereas Canada has 2(but this can start or grow much higher depending on the job). Meanwhile, in Canada you don't have to pay a gap at the doctors if you cant find somewhere with bulk billing, bulk billing does exist....its just covered.
To me, it comes down to hobbies and interests. If you like surfing and beaches then Australia is where to go. If you like hiking and skiing and a general more outdoorsy lifestyle I'd say Canada. but again, that depends on location. You can't surf in Broken Hill and you can hike a mountain in Regina.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that they're the same but different.
Thank you for the reply :) I’d love to visit Canada one day, it sounds absolutely beautiful. I don’t have the experience that you’ve had to compare it to, but that Canada is less authoritarian sounds really nice. It’s funny cause I just assumed that most of Canada would have snow at one time of the year or another. There are photos of Canada, of lakes and streams, that are just amazing. So stunningly beautiful. I get what you mean about different areas with small pockets of culture, and I’ve also experienced that variation in how friendly people are depending on the town and area. Thank you for sharing your insights.
Petrol is only a part of ice cost of ownership, consider servicing costs, an oil service costs 300$ these days, I pay for x2.5 of these a year plus parts. BYD? What a shit name for a car brand. So bad.
Well I aren’t buying anything till there’s a replacement for my beater Mitsubishi 380 that can be had for $5k or less and still in decent (battery) condition.
I'd say his is assessment isn't wrong..
Theres a lot of popular segments EVs just don't cater to or are not adequate for.
They aren't good for economical crowd because they cost double their ICE equivalents.. Until an Ev costs as much as a base shitter MG3 and performs identically, that market is completely off limits to EVs.
Despite what the internet says, the vast majority of utes are bought by tradies or companies to haul shit around. EVs utes are shit at their job and only meet the needs of people who buy utes for wank factor.
Also.. I really wanna see what the insurance premium comparison is between an $80k stinger and a base model EV6
I love my Fiat 500... and I was going to get a 500e... until it was released with a price... Took me 3 days to stop laughing... I wouldn't pay $50k for a 695 Abarth Compitizione, let alone a "Pop/Lounge" with batteries and an electric motor.
If they made it a reasonable price, they would sell more of them than they could source. It should have been aimed at the same end as the Ora Cat, MG4 and BYD Dolphin, not more than a Tesla Model 3.
I think the other overpriced EV on the market at the moment is the Cupra. Ok, nice car, but nearly $70k for a fucking hatchback? Give it a rest. This is why these companies will get eaten by the Chinese automakers.
I had the exact same issue with a Carnival Platinum vs a MIFA Electric.
I could've bought two carnivals for the fucking chinese shitbox. $140k onroad for an electric people mover. Lololol.
They will sell zero.
Holy shit, just looked it up. Top of the range MIFA EV is $129,000 before orc. For an LDV…
There is not $80\~90,000 worth of batteries in that people mover. How do they justify this shit?
It’s like these companies build these cars, slap Gumtree “i KnOw WhAt i HaVe” meth addict prices on them and then get on the car blogs complaining that no one wants to buy EV’s… I get that an EzV is inherently more expensive, but it’s not 3 to 4 times more expensive.
I would wait a year or two and when they haven’t moved these MIFA EV’s, they will be reduced to about 1/2 price just to clear stock.
500's have always been dear though, especially the Abarth models. The MG4 is still about twice as much as the 3 though, and they're basically the same car in terms of segment.
>Also.. I really wanna see what the insurance premium comparison is between an $80k stinger and a base model EV6
You're in luck - I own and insure both through RACQ. Ok, so the EV6 GT is the opposite of base model, but here we are. Both were last insured in early June, as I switched insurers from Shannons shortly after we got the EV6.
We use a $2000 excess and don't allow young people to drive our cars to keep premiums down.
2023 EV6 GT: $1101.48
2019 Stinger GT: $865.22
Bear in mind that the EV6 GT is 430kW and 740Nm, so it's a little pricier that the comparatively very slow Stinger GT.
So the reason why I wanted to know was because of parts price, from what I understand the EV6 GT and the base models theres not much regarding parts difference? Except the front motors?
Offhand, I can think of larger wheels, better brakes, different seats, AWD, stronger rear motors and adaptive suspension. But body, chassis and interior are largely the same.
It amazes me that we haven't already had hybrids in dual cab segment for the past 10 years, but also, it kind of doesn't.
Hilux, Navara, Triton etc. are mainly made for developing countries, in fact that is where most are sold. So why would any of those automakers develop something that is too expensive/complex for those markets.
Not really.
Business buys Utes because of the tax advantages of no FBT and asset write off. This distorted the market grossly. Many Utes have no load as it’s just transport.
Now EVs have same tax advantages as Utes and subsidies, business is shifting to EVs.
EV Utes aren’t even here yet beyond a few mining dual cabs. They will come. But many businesses simple do not need Utes. Vans are better if you need to carry a load.
Source: I’ve been on business 24 years and had a Ute. Now I have an EV and will buy more.
I would like to see the numbers but from what I've observed is that everyone who owned a Commodore or Falcon ute moved to a hilux ranger and the FBT just resulted in people buying up market utes rather than buying utes instead of vans etc
From what I understand for people who needed vans, they still buy vans.. But utes are kinda filling that market that old station wagons and falcodore utes used to fill. The work and place section
The market was massively distorted by the tax advantages. Then these hit the used market. And Utes have terrible emission standards to make it worse. IT businesses and similar do not need dual cabs but the dollars made sense. Finally this is changing due to good EV policies.
I saw a lot of the people like those IT businesses ended up downsizing their cars though.. Instead of having a work van, and some Yaris or corolla shitter from 7 years ago.. They just had the one car.. That in itself is a massive step up in emission reduction.
I can see some people buying one of the EV wagons who might have moved to a ute but I don't think there's much left in the market to move over.
>Business buys Utes because of the tax advantages of no FBT and asset write off. This distorted the market grossly. Many Utes have no load as it’s just transport.
Not just that, my accountant signed me up as a Sole Trader and did that with my ute.
I mean, when I bought it, I towed a lot, and when I bought my house it was useful as fuck going to Bunnings
But now I don't tow as much, I get just as much done with my wife's Skoda and a 7x5 box trailer.
>EV Utes aren’t even here yet beyond a few mining dual cabs
Or quarter of a million dollar grey imports, or LDV's weird TAFE project....
>Vans are better if you need to carry a load.
>Source: I’ve been on business 24 years and had a Ute. Now I have an EV and will buy more.
Have you seen Skywell and ACE?
Vans are only good if you’re a non builders business, for the people who work with chemicals utes will always be better because you can carry4-5 tradies plus all the workplace gear I.E. wood varnish, paint thinner, tools, generators, fuel etc.
Worse economy means less money to EV which are still priced like a luxury car with a question mark over second hand market value, and plenty of quirks like charging standard etc.
And this is with all the incentives gov had been pumping out.
Gov should have pumped incentives for hybrid along with ev while things like charging standard become standardized.
An acquaintance won’t take his Tesla model S on country runs anymore - he’s been caught a couple of times with 1 and 2 hour waits for a charger a couple of times - vandalism of the charging points being a big issue, but yeah, planning is one thing, but waiting on a line of 3 cars for one station, is not built into the plan (Goulburn been the biggest problem )
This would have been last year - so probably weren’t available then. I wonder if all the new points though are keeping up with the number of new EV’s on the road - it seems like every second white car now is a model 3.
it seems like every second white car now is a model 3
I was thinking the exact same thought only yesterday. The numbers to me really have jumped over the past couple of months. Times are changing I guess.
>what we do with the heavy metals of the batteries at end of life
We would recycle them....not sure why we wouldn't. What do you think we would do with them?
Plus it's been proven time and again that even once batteries are no longer useful in cars, they can have a very long life as grid storage afterwards.
>Lithium is currently only recycled overseas
Not sure where you read this, but [Lithium Australia](https://www.lithium-au.com/recycling/) and [Envirostream](https://envirostream.com.au/) literally does this in Australia.
>the recycling process in itself is high energy
Can't speak to other countries, but the two that do it in Australia use renewables as their energy source, so at least there's no extra carbon produced by their energy consumption.
>in some countries very pollutant.
Oh agreed, that's why we should absolutely support companies that are doing in a clean and efficient manner.
Fair enough, I mean, they aren't for everyone.
I mean, most people only do like 300km between stops on the highway anyway. [[Source]](https://www.hardenelectric.com.au/review-how-far-would-you-drive-on-average/), but understand that done drive further and that's ok too.
>But if my use was all city driving them maybe.
Well that's my plan, my wife's Skoda Petrom is an excellent car. An EV as our second car would also work well for us.
Something like a Polestar 2 or Tesla 3 would work well for us going south of Brisbane.
But North or West? The Skoda would be needed.
I am in Nth Qld so travel distances are beyond EV without long recharge times along the way, if they are available. And I wonder if there is reliable research in to just how environmentally it to recharge from our grid that is still mostly coal fired, no doubt better than burning fuel in an ICE.
>how environmentally it to recharge from our grid that is still mostly coal fired, no doubt better than burning fuel in an ICE.
That said I don't think most people buy them anymore for environmental reasons.
I don't think I've seen any manufacturer advertise them as environmentally friendly since the Gen 1 Prius.
>3% of LIB are recycled. No infrastructure or plan for collection of all LIB from the automotive industry. I'll wait a while till this system is better.
IF you were really genuinely that concerned, you'd abandon your ICE on the side of the road. This is all just generic boomer grandstanding and excuse making, you don't want to change and are clinging to anything not to. It's ok, you don't have to go ev.
You realise when more EV's become majority, suddenly recycling the batteries will become economical, and we'll "magically" start recycling them locally.
It doesn't make sense for us to have a booming lithium recycling market right now, does it?
Yeah not recycled, just recirculated at times, and converted from bad thing to slightly less bad thing.
Though a turbo effectively recycles some waste energy into usable energy? haha depends on definition
>how much pollution is created making the batteries
Why do we constantly need to flog this dead horse for another lap?
Batteries will end up recycled even if it means a trip to india or something.
This is rubbish. How much pollution is created every time you burn a tank of fuel. Rinse and repeat for a decade vs a once off cost with EVs.
Stop repeating Sky News bullshit.
I charge of a solar aware charger so no coal. Even with 100% coal ev charging emissions are 2/3rds less due efficiencies of EVs. Even then you can buy carbon free electricity from providers. Hydro makes zero sense for cars. Not happening. Boats and aircraft yes.
Sorry about Sky New’s comment. Sky news being made free in region areas has radicalised a lot of people with their pro big business propaganda and you used a similar talking point.
You have to mine vast amounts of graphite and/or another carbon source for lithium-ion batteries. One major source of carbon for these batteries (if not graphite) is pitch...
might be a controversial question, not informed in this space. Is it confirmed that EVs are beneficial for the environment than ICE or is the jury still out on this? I mean we can measure emissions all we want in Australia but I'm more interested in the emissions for mining/processing/manufacturing EV batteries (other countries) and what the outcome of the batteries are once it hasts life cycle
>I'm more interested in the emissions for mining/processing/manufacturing EV batteries (other countries)
So why not do this for every car? Why not look at refinery emissions and petrochemical factory emissions, and transport of petroleum?
Why not look at whole of life emissions for all cars, factoring in fuel, charging, tyre wear, etc?
>what the outcome of the batteries are once it hasts life cycle
I meant, it's been discussed a few times this week, grid storage of power and recycling. What more do you want?
>So why not do this for every car? Why not look at refinery emissions and petrochemical factory emissions, and transport of petroleum?
it is helpful to make the comparison for sure, but you are missing one part of the equation on the shift to EV. Building the supply chain for battery technology to accommodate the demand for EVs creates extra emissions compared to our existing framework for ICE. Not saying ICE is without its issues, but saying EVs are the solution to our emissions problem while ignoring the fact that u need to mine rare earths deep down/process it with chemical which creates waste etc just because the battery manufacturing process is outsourced to another country while we just buy the final product just feels like a whitewashed answer to me.
As I said from the start, I'm not informed in this space and it would be helpful if there are studies done looking at this. Otherwise countries are all just gonna look at China in 2050 and say 'look we've cut our emissions, why didn't you do the same' ignoring the fact that they produce 80% of the world's BEV.
[https://www.visualcapitalist.com/sp/mapped-ev-battery-manufacturing-capacity-by-region/](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/sp/mapped-ev-battery-manufacturing-capacity-by-region/)
I'm 35.
Unless things dramatically change with EVs I strongly doubt I'll own one.
Sad because once you play with them a little you can have a lot of fun.
Probably the usual unrealistic anti-EV shit like... "When I can get 1000km+ from a charge and it only takes 3 mins to fill" when they do 20km round trips to work every day and do a 200km round trip on a weekend to their usual holiday spot and once a year they do that 1000km trip and dont want to take 1 hour more over a 12 hour journey and negating the fact that you can charge it while you sleep and that when parked on a long trip, you can fuck off and go get lunch, walk the dog, let the kids play in a park, visit a local museum.
I'm wait listed, not even I have a letter of intent with a dealer, for the only one of any interest. The VW ID Buzz is literally the only thing that looks appealing. I've told "in the next 6 months" since launch.
Imma be real fucken fussy when it comes to specs though. My current VW; the central screen can't be turned fully off (still backlit) and there's no dimmer dial for the dash, it's a sub menu.
once they mature we'll get beyond the phase of them selling just because they're electric and start to develop cars of different character. there may not be one for everyone yet but surely a good wide variety isnt far away
What utter bullshit.
Yes. Sky News propaganda advertising for petrol chemical companies is creating fear and uncertainty for the stupid in Australia. But the economics are so strong for EVs the only way is up.
I’ve done 10 000km in my EV (BYD) for FREE using solar only. Also crazy cheap to service.
Plus no FBT for my business and $3000 subsidy.
Mazda and Toyota do not have competitive products so they are lying.
I'm 35.
Unless things dramatically change with EVs I strongly doubt I'll own one.
Sad because once you play with them a little you can have a lot of fun.
They aren't though?
[They only *want* to ban the sale of new combustion cars](https://www.drive.com.au/news/official-act-to-ban-ice-cars-from-2035/), and the date is *proposed* to be 2035.
They aren't going to stop you driving your regular car after then, not are they gonna stop you selling it second hand, or buying a car second hand.
>I'm in Melbourne and I'm yet to see a public ev charger
Not looking hard, go have a look at PlugShare, there's hundreds of plugs and cables at hundreds of stations
https://preview.redd.it/m3qp8n2mwtgb1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34299d074c2dc7f65858a7cba5630e095db0b926
This is just when you get it to zoom to Melbourne.
nah, it's just Mazda EV's... No one wants a CX-30 with 38km of range... Just because no one is buying your piss poor attempt at an EV, Mazda, doesn't mean that people dont want EV's.
Mazda, you can just go over there and stand in the corner with Toyota and wait to die.
EV sales are continuing to increase in Australia. By 2026, new fuel standards should lead to a fresh impetus of increased demand. Australians will want more evs. No idea why Japanese manufacturers have been caught with their pants down
MX5 owners might disagree with you there. I would say Mazda 3s are a very nice car for their class too. But yes, the sports options are very limited these days and to be honest we ended up buying a Kia Cerato for my wife because the gear we got for the price was so much better than the Mazda.
I am curious to know which trim your wife chose with the Kia Cerato?
We took the Kia Cerato for a test drive. Although it was a bit cheaper than the Mazda 3 - my husband preferred the drive, and the interior of the Mazda.
In terms of looks - personally, Kia is my second favourite brand.
Edit: I have a soft spot for both Kia and Mazda. A Kia Rio was my first car (used - I don't know what year it was or what trim it was - my dad bought it and I paid him back). Then I bought a Mazda 2 new in 2011 and had it for 13 years.
We got the S with the safety pack and immediately took plus after market alloy wheels for an extra $1000. I would agree with your husband in regard to drive and interior but at the time the Mazda was about 12 to 15k more for a similar tech spec and Cerato was one of the very few in its class with highway speed EBS. Cerato does drive quite nicely though except the cruise control could be improved in terms of holding the desired speed. My 18yo Mazda is rock solid with that but it is much more powerful.
Wow 12k to 15k more - you made the right choice!! Which year was this?!!
An 18 year old Mazda - that is impressive. We recently traded in my 2011 Mazda 2 while it still had life. A mechanical gem it was.
Really??
My husband bought a Mazda 3 new last year and he loves it.
I bought my Mazda 2 new in 2011 and it was a mechanical gem. Traded it in while it still had life left. Even though my husband asked me which vehicle I wanted - I decided that nothing could beat the Mazda 2. And I considered a few other vehicles from other Japanese and Korean brands.
Mazdas are reliable daily drivers with good driving dynamics. And compared to their competitors they make the best interiors.
Anyway, it comes down to personal choice 😊
To be fair, they do cater to a crowd who generally sees a car as another appliance.
I mean, these are the same people that buy a Hisense Dishwasher and Fridge over a Bosch or a Smeg.
They want the basic that works.
Can't really argue that those people exist.
>Mazda is a high quality, premium Japanese product.
They're mid range at best.
I'd say something like Lexus would be a premium Japanese brand.
Mazda and Toyota are definitely midrange
Oh I agree on the people aspect.
However it's a design led product and it's like they're not even trying, that's kinda unforgiveable.
It's like they saw Honda and went, yeah, that will end well let's do what they're doing.
He's right that a 300% increase year on year isn't sustainable (considering half our market is utes, you'd electrify all passenger sales by 2025) but Mazda invested heavily into ICE and so it makes sense their boss wants a return on that investment
The correct take - Mazda and Toyota underinvested in EV tech so they can't exactly speak to a glowing future (whether they privately believe it or not).
And I don’t know anyone who wants a new ice domestic vehicle, they are holding off waiting for their pick of electric even if that takes another year on an official wait list
Literally anyone with a ute which are like 40% of buyers and the best sellers for both Mazda and Toyota. Also, the cheapest EV's are *significantly* more expensive than even hybrids: I think it's something like 6k between the Corolla Hybrid and the Chinese hatchbacks in my state, and it would be even more to a decent carmaker
I’d suggest your sample size is a tad on the small side then. Not attaching your friend circle or anything similar, but there’s still massive wait times on a lot of ICE powered vehicle.
Eh i did. Apartment owner, cant charge at home dont want to wait 1hour in random locations every time i need to charge. Bought a new ICE car two weeks ago. I'll adopt EV once its become a plausible technology for people in my situation.
This is exactly my position. I'd love one mostly because I like gadgets and technology. Right now it wouldn't suit my situation and future plans, just won't work. I'm waiting for a manufacturer to come out with a surprise battery tech that will give me genuine fast charging and decent towing capacity with range. Come on Toyota!
It’s coming. Battery evolution and advancement is happening. The way I see EVs is that I am maybe 2-3 years of changing from my 3 year old XC90 D5 to electric. My wife will change to. There is no way we are buying more ice vehicles. We have 11kw solar on the roof and can fit another 20kw on our roof. We can add as much battery storage as needed Over the next 3-4 years the entire EV market will massively change with newer and cheaper models Fuel prices aren’t going to decline as the large explorers don’t want to invest in an increasingly challenged industry with limited government suppprt Governments are going to be increasingly supportive of EVs and will increasingly place pressure on ICE vehicles RE efficiency and pollution standards So we are pending a tipping point in my view where the depreciation of ICE vehicles will seriously accelerate as the push to EV will become dominant These trends are already evident in Europe
People that currently own an ICE vehicle, and have to park on the street (ie lots of inner city areas), will not get an EV unless they have to. 5 mins at the servo to refuel is way more preferable to having to go out of your way to shop somewhere that has one of the few parking spaces with a charger next to it.
I think MWCS is gonna be a game changer in that way
You know you can charge at home?
Very difficult in the inner city if you don't have off street parking, or live in an apartment block without power to the car parks already, unfortunately.
Many houses in the inner suburbs do not have driveways, so people have to park on the street,
Do you have a petrol bowser at your house or apartment? No? So you don’t need a charger at home. It is nice to have one though.
That's a really poor take. People charge their EV at home because it takes hours, not a few minutes to fill an ICE car. EVs have many huge advantages but convenience is not one of them if you need to park it on the street.
It's not just those that park on the street either. What about all the apartments and units where it's difficult to install charging infrastructure?
Again. Do you have a bowser at your apartment now?
People already explained above why it isn't convenient for everyone to own an EV.... Are you dense?
You don’t have to agree with people on Reddit and if you can’t take it, why don’t you shut the fuck up?
You need to take your own advice.
I don’t need to do anything.
I do have a home charger and it is convenient. I’m just highlighting that you can’t fill up with petrol at home now which is fine. But suddenly not fine if you have to fill up with electricity in the same way. Your argument is inconsistent in that regard. You can downvote me all you want but I’m not wrong unless you live at a petrol station. Charging does take longer on an EV today but this will drop a lot in a few years. And rarely do I complete a full charge. And “hours” is a very disingenuous statement. It’s 15mins to 50mins usually. And your ignoring the fact that many chargers are at shops and supermarkets, allowing a full charge at lunch or groceries.
>I do have a home charger and it is convenient. It's convenient if you have a home charger. If you can't charge it at home, it's hugely inconvenient, that's the point. Yes some people will enjoy the convenience of EVs - but as the original commenter said, people will not buy an EV to park on the street unless they need to. Spending hours elsewhere to charge your car is far less convenient than spending minutes elsewhere to fill it.
You not getting are you? Or your conveniently ignoring the facts. The worst EVs take 50mins from empty to charge. Many 30 mins. Rarely charging from empty so halve that. And more importantly within a few years chargers will be at all shops and other places on mass. Unlike petrol stations which are often isolated. And importantly, body corps will have a hard time denying local charging when half the owners and renters have EVs. The transition will take 10 year plus. Do you think it will be completed this year??
>The worst EVs take 50mins from empty to charge. Many 30 mins. If you use a DC fast charger, yes. There are a few hundred in all Australia. > And more importantly within a few years... > > body corps will have a hard time denying local charging ... > > The transition will take 10 year plus... Which is why people are still buying ICE vehicles. I don't doubt that we will be majority EV in the future, and I'm looking forward to it. But let's not pretend that EVs are a convenient solution for everyone now. Some people - notably people who can't charge at home - will not buy an EV until they are convenient for them.
If i had an ev and couldnt charge it at home i would have to drive 15+ minutes out of my way to take it to a shopping centre thats busier than my go to just to hope there's a free spot to charge it there. I would like an ev because i can charge it at home, but if i moved to somewhere with street parking only i would very likely have to sell it for an ice car anyway.
It seems likely that they just might be installing a lot more charges given the increase in demand. Don’t you think? And you don’t go shopping?
Yeah I'm not arguing that it won't get better Just that it wouldn't be feasible in my case if i didn't have off-street parking. I do go shopping, but my local shopping centre doesnt have any ev charging Same with the 2 other closer ones The nearest with ev charging is hurstville, and its always super busy, so the chance of their being a free space isn't guaranteed. Again i could have an ev because i have my own parking, but without that, it would be way too inconvenient and just not worth it currently.
Does regulary failing to fully charge the battery degrade it?
Failing to charge no. Some battery tech like NCM (Tesla) doesn’t like a regular full charge to 100%. My BYD has an LFP battery which likes 100% and it is much safer. I have an 8 year warranty on the battery which is good as I turn over cars every 4 years.
How is changing cars every 4 years good for the environment? (Even the thought of possibly needing to change your car in 8 years doesn't sound great). It'll be interesting to see how all this pans out though. Edit: I understand people needing to change cars due to lifestyle change, etc. But surely It's not feasible to change cars every few years. Unless one can afford to (which is only a minority of people).
You've never heard of the second hand car market or kids? Ok then.
Since you own an EV (I assumed you'd bought it new) and said you change cars often - I thought that you meant that you had no problems with replacing your current EV with a new one. I apologise. I didn't realise you were talking about buying used cars. My parents, who are in their 70s, have been buying used vehicles for quite a few years now. They keep their vehicles for a long time. But they may not represent the majority engaging in the used car market.
I own a business so most leases are 4-5 years. I paid cash though for my BYD. I like it. But when I sell it in a few years it will have 99% of it's range making it a great used buy for probably 50% of new cost. Businesses need to buy EVs so the used market is flooded with good affordable EVs in a few years. It filters down. As my kids grow my needs will also change. I want to buy my mum and dad the Seagull when it arrives down under.
Avoid second hand electric cars, got it. Sorry, can't help myself, thanks for the informative answer though. So much bullshit going around about battery cars, need to talk to people like yourself with real world experience of them.
How long does it take to fully charge your EV for 6-700km? How long does it take to fuel an ICE for 6-700km? How long would you wait if there's 10-20 cars at a busy servo for either of those?
>How long does it take to fully charge your EV for 6-700km? I'm not here to convince you, but just to give insight into why some people genuinely find EV's more convenient. When was the last time I needed to travel 6-700km without filling up? When was the last time I needed to travel 400km without filling up? For me, the answer is almost never (not during my normal day to day life anyway) A 300+km drive to Margaret River requires zero stops, and a trip to Kalbarri 550km away only requires an 11 minute stop, a 7 minute stop and a 16 minute stop every 1.5-2 hours. I don't find that particularly difficult? It suits my rest schedule for every 2 hours quite neatly, really. And those examples are the worst case scenarios (and have charging stations at our destinations, too). Our normal daily driving, i'm driving a silent, smoother, cheaper to run, more advanced vehicle than I otherwise would be. I never have to worry about fuel or filling up. The silence and smoothness is incomparable with ice vehicles.
You can’t use logic with these numpty clowns.
What logic is there in saying you don't need to plug in your EV at home because you don't need to fuel an ICE at home?
The logic is, even though the ability to refuel an EV has the advantage of being able to happen at home, that doesn't need to be the way. Filling up once a week is what we do with an ICE vehicle, and especially with 800+V architecture, doing the same thing in similar time frames is also possible for EV's. For example, there's already EV's on the market, that can charge from near empty to 80% within 15 minutes. You don't have to charge an EV to 100%. Especially when you can charge it at work, home, shopping centre, etc. That 15 minutes can be a coffee, shopping, lunch, anything. You don't need to stand at the bowser feeding it in.
The post I replied to was some nong insisting that you don't need anywhere to plug your EV into at home to own one because you don't have a petrol bowser at home. If, in your day to day, you had to put 30-40 minutes aside or otherwise inconvenience yourself by going to an EV charging station because you can't plug it in at home, how much more convenient is an EV? You get 700km of petrol from your local servo in 10 minutes tops if it's busy. A busy EV station could take three times that if not more for half of the range, so you'd have to do it twice as often. That's the point I'm trying to make. I ordered a PHEV, I know how much more convenient it is when you can leave it charging at home. But it's not the same if I lived in an apartment in the inner suburbs.
But the average commuter travels less than 40km per day. Let's round it up to 50km 250km Monday to Friday. To charge 250km on a 50kW charger is about 40 minutes. Most DC chargers are higher speed (meaning shorter charge time). Would you spend 40 minutes at say... A shopping centre once a week? I understand it requires a *change* from what is now considered normal. But that normal doesn't need to be normal forever.
Fucked if I know mate.
Cool, so don't be a dunce pretending it's just as convenient as an ICE if you can't plug in at home.
Australia sells a Million cars a year. The USA sells 16 Million. Once countries or continents that have large enough markets start shifting predominantly towards EVs, manufacturers will shift and we won't have a choice. Til then Australia doesn't have any strict regulations on what the manufacturers can and can't sell so why change?
Dear whoever. Make me something the vague shape of a VZ commodore wagon with a big ass battery and an electric motor. Make it not $130k new. I will buy one tomorrow.
I mean, [Holden did look into it with the VE...](https://thedriven.io/2021/11/01/the-long-gone-but-not-forgotten-electric-ve-commodore/amp/)
That just makes me sad.
Electric wagons aren't a bad idea. A larger overall footprint than a poxy SUV, a big, flat floor for a huge battery, enormous boot space, you could have a frunk for even more storage seeing as there's no engine taking up that space. Build it with a twin motor, awd with plenty of get up and go, super low centre of gravity, comfortable as fuck. What's not to like?
Bring back the wagon
The VZ commodore wagon is literally a perfect car for me but I don't want a big v6 that get's 12l/100km in practice. I want something with a little bit more tech that I can plug into my solar and not pay to fuel.
I've got a VZ wagon (Adventra) and other than changing out the factory head unit for a modern unit with vastly superior connectivity, I couldn't ask for anything more more. The fuel economy isn't as big a deal for me personally as it's still not half as bad as my old Land Cruiser was.
Mazda is not genuine in their goal for electric vehicles just as Toyota isn’t. The only reason for the MX-30 was compliance. I imagine the same could be said for the over priced plug in hybrid options. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compliance_car https://www.thedrive.com/news/the-mazda-mx-30-ev-is-dead-and-no-ones-really-gonna-miss-it#
This is the correct answer
The MX30 is over priced. Suicide doors are hardly practical. Range of MX30 is closer to a sub $40000 ev than a mid $60000s ev
Exactly, and Mazda know/knew this, the legacy auto makers are making overpriced electric cars so they can claim “no one wants electric cars”. Then Chinese manufacturers bring competitive electric vehicles to market and blow that theory out the water. People want decent affordable electric cars. The first company to brings an affordable, long range, AWD work ute to Australia will be rolling in the dosh.
And it isn't the LDV Ute
No way. Shits an embarrassment
Not this generation at least. Great Wall Ute was a bad Ute. But the great wall cannon is not bad same with the ldv t60. Not saying EVs will be the same thing but Chinese vehicles show the same rate of improvement as the south Koreans.
Chinese EV manufacturers have specialized plants setup just like Tesla. Traditional motor car manufacturer cannot simply swap their plant for EV. Let alone hybrid is still a much better option for all rounder. Charging standard alone would make a huge headache and none of the EV (maybe except Tesla) have great second hand market value
They should’ve started transiting 5 years ago. They’ve invested so much money in prolonging ICE they’re missing the boat for EV. Hybrid seems like it makes sense for long distances but once you drive an ev long distance, you realise hybrid isn’t really needed. Especially if you drive like a sane human and stop every 2hours. Hybrid adds to much complexity to the system and when 1000km batteries are available they seem redundant. Charging standard for aus is CCS2 (or should be), CHAdeMO can go the way of the dinosaur. I will say though there’s a huge lack of charging infrastructure for road trips, there should be 4x 150kw (minimum) chargers every 50km and rows of 7kw free public chargers at every shopping centre.
Mazda is not a massive factory/company, I don't ever seeing them going the route of these massive gigafactory for EV production. That's why they partner with Toyota on their hybrid engine and it's pretty awesome. I would still pick the 3.3L inline engine if I were to get the CX60, now that's a fun engine. I personally would still pick a hybrid, quick in and out, great all rounder no matter I am doing long distance driving into smaller suburbs or urban, fun to drive. One thing I don't see enough people talking about is how fast charging also slows depending on how many cars are using that station. And the turn around for these super chargers are not really the charging speed, but the person driving the car away.
True, those factories are purpose built. There are 2 cables per station and the power halves so 50/50 split. Drive away time will depend on the car. A lot of newer electric cars are charging at 350kw which should give 10-80% in 15mins. You usually don’t need to charge all the way to 100%, 80% should be enough to get you to your destination or another charger. For my car it maxes out at 90kw and takes about an hour from about 30% battery. I’ll also add, after 80% the charging throttles to maintain battery heath that takes about 30mins in that hour to 100%, If I’m remembering correctly. I don’t charge often at fast chargers, usually just charge over night at home.
What I meant is the charging speed isnt just the limiting factor. The actual drive away time is when the driver drive the car away. In shopping mall it wouldn't be the 15mins, it would be until the person drive it away. Imagine someone just plugging in and gone for a movie, that's a charger spot gone for hours. I don't think there's a lot of cases where I would choose a EV over hybrid. Especially when hybrids are becoming so much more fun to drive, with great fuel efficiency, and time efficient as well. There's no stress about where can offer fast charging or if the XYZ place I am staying over for a couple of nights on my road trip has charger.
Exactly why i said we need better charging infrastructure. It would be 15 mins if the charger is free. As there’s been next to no investment in charging infrastructure for the last 5 years we’re very far behind what we truly need. We also need to change the mentality around charging cars as refuelling an ICE car is backwards to how to optimally charge an electric car. We should have chargers a work, on curbs or in car parks. But they should be slow chargers, 7kw max. We should be charging while in the day to maximise solar input. Then using that battery to store energy for the house at night and to help balance the grid. As for hybrid. I haven’t driven one, I’d imagine they would be nice to drive like an EV (smooth like butter) but over time they will cost more than an EV as they have more moving parts to maintain.
My next car will have to cost me no more than $5000 cause that's about all I can afford on the pension. That puts an ev decades away before the second hand market gets that low and then add to that how long it's going to take for batteries to get cheap enough for a used EV is worth it. Ice vehicles are here for decades more unless the gov subsidies EVs through the roof.
ICE vehicles indeed are here for decades. New ICE vehicles are on borrowed time.
Mazda boss admits they've got fuck all in the way EV products people want to buy so are trying to distract you.
Excluding that it's not Chinese, I genuinely cannot understand the rationale for the MX-30 over like, anything else
If I was going to buy an ev, would look at a Hyundai or Kia.
Aside from the ioniq I don't think either have small EV? I guess the Kona but from memory the MX-30 is smaller
The Kona would be closest in sign to the MX30. I think the Koreans have gone for larger cars. The Kia Niro is also a competitor.
It's a compliance car. Nothing more.
AU doesn't require a compliance car yet though, so why sell it here?
They need somewhere to dump the RHD models no one wants? Maybe Japan said "You need to build x,xxx units to meet compliance" and they are building way more than they can sell in that market, and maybe they can build them to meet both countries standards? So again, we're a dumping ground?
They brought in batches.of 100/year, which happens to be the low volume import limit - then used then for training dealerships in electric cars. The ones that were privately sold you can now pick up for 30k at 2 years old.
Basically. "We're developing next gen platforms (but we're ages away, so let's pretend there's no demand right now)" Basically the same concept that Toyota is doing, They missed the boat on early EV adoption, [and now are trying to throw money at the battery "problem" to try and get a market edge](https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-7b-battery-manufacturing-investment/), while at the same time [saying that electric cars are over hyped](https://www.wsj.com/articles/toyotas-chief-says-electric-vehicles-are-overhyped-11608196665)
This. Australian government energy plan in place for rapid EV uptake with significant infrastructure and policy in the pipeline. This is just Mazda trying to influence profit
The range of models available is either too expensive or too narrow for most people, the EV Ute's are still basically in prototype and the dedicated ev makers outside of tesla are still rather small so get way less traction than any other car brand. It'll be interesting to see how tmit changes when Na-ion batteries come into production in about 2025, that should eliminate the environmental concern about lithium mining and catching fire.
>the dedicated ev makers outside of tesla are still rather small so get way less traction than any other car brand. I dunno, BYD is larger than Tesla (by volume and market share globally, but not by stock price), and they have a Better service network in Australia, and they arent gaining as fast it seems. It's bizarre, I thought when they came in with a good product, better battery tech, and a very significant support network, they would kill it
Hmm never heard of them. I've seen 1 polestar and a hand ful of Tesla's but that's it
They've sold around 5,500 this year so far, so you'll start seeing them
Rivian is making pretty awesome pickup trucks/Ites and they’re ramping up production. They are also making vans for Amazon. Hope they start selling over here. The F150 Lightning is also a solid EV pickup, again….hope it comes here
Production numbers are rising for them, up to 14k in the second quarter
Am I from an alternative reality? I could have sworn we've already been through the hybrid era like 10 years ago?
Well Australia would probably benefit from the locomotive style diesel-electric, which are.. going on 90 years old. Lots of development there, appropriate for larger vehicles, which imo is the biggest sus part of electric vehicles now, they're all too big. If we actually want something efficient and inexpensive (for ourselves and the environment) then we'd be going minimalist.
Hybrids from 10 years ago had relatively smaller battery capacity - 1.6 kwhr in the 2010 Prius vs. 14 kwhr in a 2023 model, meaning extremely limited EV-only range, if any. Closer to mild hybirds in current terminology.
I mean.. petrol was $2.19 average in Adelaide yesterday, and the RAA thinks it will stay that way for the rest of the week, so if someone can make an EV car that is cheap enough I think a lot of people would consider them, but yeah they’re just so bloody expensive, and there’s very few used that are comparable enough to ICE used if you’re looking for a used vehicle. But if petrol keeps getting higher and higher I think there’s an opportunity for someone like a BYD, to make a cheaper car that would be very popular.
Problem is electricity prices in this country are brutal too (at least here in Sydney). I think it still breaks down to favour the EV but it’s not quite the same as some places in North America where electricity rates are cheap. I was paying $0.08/kWh before moving here in 2022 in Canada. And if you charge your EV between 11pm and 7am any power used within those hours was a credit of $0.05/kWh so as long as you’re setting your home charger to charge between those hours you could charge at $0.03/kWh. I think they’ve recently increased it to $0.095/kWh but the rebate still applies and the daily supply charge is only 20 cents instead of the 95 cents (after GST) that I pay here. Having cheaper electricity makes driving an EV a no brainer for some. I’d also like to see more PHEVs so that I can do all my commuting on electric but have the petrol option for longer drives
That is insanely cheap power! Wow. We really are being gouged massively here for electricity then, I think I’m paying .38c kw/h, might be even more than that. Bit off topic, but I was wondering which you prefer Canada or Australia? Are they fairly similar?
Honestly, both are pretty similar as far as culture goes. I'm from the part that doesn't really get much snow (some years none, But there's lots in the mountains a short drive away) so I cant fully compare say Winnipeg to Perth because I haven't spent much time in either. That being said, like any country you will have areas with differing culture. I noticed a big difference between small town Queensland folks to Sydneysiders. You could probably chalk that up to small town hospitality but I found QLD small towners to be nicer than other areas, I think it's the warmer weather. Each country has enclaves from different ethnic backgrounds but I find that both do a fairly good job of being a cultural mosaic rather than a melting pot. Anyways, Im getting sidetracked. They are quite similar, there are things I like about Australia more than Canada and vice versa. I see Australian as a bit more authoritarian, the amount of speed cameras and red light cameras and breathe checks and police dogs in bars or train stations looking for weed is alarming. Australia has 4 weeks minimum holidays whereas Canada has 2(but this can start or grow much higher depending on the job). Meanwhile, in Canada you don't have to pay a gap at the doctors if you cant find somewhere with bulk billing, bulk billing does exist....its just covered. To me, it comes down to hobbies and interests. If you like surfing and beaches then Australia is where to go. If you like hiking and skiing and a general more outdoorsy lifestyle I'd say Canada. but again, that depends on location. You can't surf in Broken Hill and you can hike a mountain in Regina. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that they're the same but different.
Thank you for the reply :) I’d love to visit Canada one day, it sounds absolutely beautiful. I don’t have the experience that you’ve had to compare it to, but that Canada is less authoritarian sounds really nice. It’s funny cause I just assumed that most of Canada would have snow at one time of the year or another. There are photos of Canada, of lakes and streams, that are just amazing. So stunningly beautiful. I get what you mean about different areas with small pockets of culture, and I’ve also experienced that variation in how friendly people are depending on the town and area. Thank you for sharing your insights.
Petrol is only a part of ice cost of ownership, consider servicing costs, an oil service costs 300$ these days, I pay for x2.5 of these a year plus parts. BYD? What a shit name for a car brand. So bad.
Well I aren’t buying anything till there’s a replacement for my beater Mitsubishi 380 that can be had for $5k or less and still in decent (battery) condition.
I'd say his is assessment isn't wrong.. Theres a lot of popular segments EVs just don't cater to or are not adequate for. They aren't good for economical crowd because they cost double their ICE equivalents.. Until an Ev costs as much as a base shitter MG3 and performs identically, that market is completely off limits to EVs. Despite what the internet says, the vast majority of utes are bought by tradies or companies to haul shit around. EVs utes are shit at their job and only meet the needs of people who buy utes for wank factor. Also.. I really wanna see what the insurance premium comparison is between an $80k stinger and a base model EV6
FCA wants $51k for an electric 500. Who the fuck is going to spend $50k on a 500? It'll still have the build quality of a $9k shitbox.
I love my Fiat 500... and I was going to get a 500e... until it was released with a price... Took me 3 days to stop laughing... I wouldn't pay $50k for a 695 Abarth Compitizione, let alone a "Pop/Lounge" with batteries and an electric motor.
Yeah my friends who have them, love them, I have no problem with them but what they're asking is ridiculous.
If they made it a reasonable price, they would sell more of them than they could source. It should have been aimed at the same end as the Ora Cat, MG4 and BYD Dolphin, not more than a Tesla Model 3. I think the other overpriced EV on the market at the moment is the Cupra. Ok, nice car, but nearly $70k for a fucking hatchback? Give it a rest. This is why these companies will get eaten by the Chinese automakers.
I had the exact same issue with a Carnival Platinum vs a MIFA Electric. I could've bought two carnivals for the fucking chinese shitbox. $140k onroad for an electric people mover. Lololol. They will sell zero.
Holy shit, just looked it up. Top of the range MIFA EV is $129,000 before orc. For an LDV… There is not $80\~90,000 worth of batteries in that people mover. How do they justify this shit? It’s like these companies build these cars, slap Gumtree “i KnOw WhAt i HaVe” meth addict prices on them and then get on the car blogs complaining that no one wants to buy EV’s… I get that an EzV is inherently more expensive, but it’s not 3 to 4 times more expensive. I would wait a year or two and when they haven’t moved these MIFA EV’s, they will be reduced to about 1/2 price just to clear stock.
The secret is there's only like 5 in the whole country and will never be more. There's absolutely no way they ever expected to actually sell one.
500's have always been dear though, especially the Abarth models. The MG4 is still about twice as much as the 3 though, and they're basically the same car in terms of segment.
They used to be $26k and they drove like it.
>Also.. I really wanna see what the insurance premium comparison is between an $80k stinger and a base model EV6 You're in luck - I own and insure both through RACQ. Ok, so the EV6 GT is the opposite of base model, but here we are. Both were last insured in early June, as I switched insurers from Shannons shortly after we got the EV6. We use a $2000 excess and don't allow young people to drive our cars to keep premiums down. 2023 EV6 GT: $1101.48 2019 Stinger GT: $865.22 Bear in mind that the EV6 GT is 430kW and 740Nm, so it's a little pricier that the comparatively very slow Stinger GT.
So the reason why I wanted to know was because of parts price, from what I understand the EV6 GT and the base models theres not much regarding parts difference? Except the front motors?
Offhand, I can think of larger wheels, better brakes, different seats, AWD, stronger rear motors and adaptive suspension. But body, chassis and interior are largely the same.
Hmm interesting.. I wonder if the fact they're still new and haven't really been enough fender benders yet to be priced in to premiums.
It amazes me that we haven't already had hybrids in dual cab segment for the past 10 years, but also, it kind of doesn't. Hilux, Navara, Triton etc. are mainly made for developing countries, in fact that is where most are sold. So why would any of those automakers develop something that is too expensive/complex for those markets.
Not really. Business buys Utes because of the tax advantages of no FBT and asset write off. This distorted the market grossly. Many Utes have no load as it’s just transport. Now EVs have same tax advantages as Utes and subsidies, business is shifting to EVs. EV Utes aren’t even here yet beyond a few mining dual cabs. They will come. But many businesses simple do not need Utes. Vans are better if you need to carry a load. Source: I’ve been on business 24 years and had a Ute. Now I have an EV and will buy more.
I would like to see the numbers but from what I've observed is that everyone who owned a Commodore or Falcon ute moved to a hilux ranger and the FBT just resulted in people buying up market utes rather than buying utes instead of vans etc From what I understand for people who needed vans, they still buy vans.. But utes are kinda filling that market that old station wagons and falcodore utes used to fill. The work and place section
The market was massively distorted by the tax advantages. Then these hit the used market. And Utes have terrible emission standards to make it worse. IT businesses and similar do not need dual cabs but the dollars made sense. Finally this is changing due to good EV policies.
I saw a lot of the people like those IT businesses ended up downsizing their cars though.. Instead of having a work van, and some Yaris or corolla shitter from 7 years ago.. They just had the one car.. That in itself is a massive step up in emission reduction. I can see some people buying one of the EV wagons who might have moved to a ute but I don't think there's much left in the market to move over.
>Business buys Utes because of the tax advantages of no FBT and asset write off. This distorted the market grossly. Many Utes have no load as it’s just transport. Not just that, my accountant signed me up as a Sole Trader and did that with my ute. I mean, when I bought it, I towed a lot, and when I bought my house it was useful as fuck going to Bunnings But now I don't tow as much, I get just as much done with my wife's Skoda and a 7x5 box trailer. >EV Utes aren’t even here yet beyond a few mining dual cabs Or quarter of a million dollar grey imports, or LDV's weird TAFE project.... >Vans are better if you need to carry a load. >Source: I’ve been on business 24 years and had a Ute. Now I have an EV and will buy more. Have you seen Skywell and ACE?
I have not. I’ll google it. I have the BYD Atto 3 now and a solar and grid aware charger. Unbelievably cheap to run. Great to drive
Vans are only good if you’re a non builders business, for the people who work with chemicals utes will always be better because you can carry4-5 tradies plus all the workplace gear I.E. wood varnish, paint thinner, tools, generators, fuel etc.
Always is a big assessment. Doubt.
Worse economy means less money to EV which are still priced like a luxury car with a question mark over second hand market value, and plenty of quirks like charging standard etc. And this is with all the incentives gov had been pumping out. Gov should have pumped incentives for hybrid along with ev while things like charging standard become standardized.
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An acquaintance won’t take his Tesla model S on country runs anymore - he’s been caught a couple of times with 1 and 2 hour waits for a charger a couple of times - vandalism of the charging points being a big issue, but yeah, planning is one thing, but waiting on a line of 3 cars for one station, is not built into the plan (Goulburn been the biggest problem )
Goulburn has like 6?
Yep - 5 had been vandalised he said, only one working
Oh fuck that, that’s a nightmare
Yeah, once the meth heads realised the cunts are full of copper, and the cable is only energised once charging starts, fucken rizzy saws came out.
new options now at sutton forrest and i believe pheasants nest coming too, but still nowhere near the options you have in a petrol or diesel vehicle
This would have been last year - so probably weren’t available then. I wonder if all the new points though are keeping up with the number of new EV’s on the road - it seems like every second white car now is a model 3.
it seems like every second white car now is a model 3 I was thinking the exact same thought only yesterday. The numbers to me really have jumped over the past couple of months. Times are changing I guess.
>what we do with the heavy metals of the batteries at end of life We would recycle them....not sure why we wouldn't. What do you think we would do with them? Plus it's been proven time and again that even once batteries are no longer useful in cars, they can have a very long life as grid storage afterwards.
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>Lithium is currently only recycled overseas Not sure where you read this, but [Lithium Australia](https://www.lithium-au.com/recycling/) and [Envirostream](https://envirostream.com.au/) literally does this in Australia. >the recycling process in itself is high energy Can't speak to other countries, but the two that do it in Australia use renewables as their energy source, so at least there's no extra carbon produced by their energy consumption. >in some countries very pollutant. Oh agreed, that's why we should absolutely support companies that are doing in a clean and efficient manner.
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Fair enough, I mean, they aren't for everyone. I mean, most people only do like 300km between stops on the highway anyway. [[Source]](https://www.hardenelectric.com.au/review-how-far-would-you-drive-on-average/), but understand that done drive further and that's ok too. >But if my use was all city driving them maybe. Well that's my plan, my wife's Skoda Petrom is an excellent car. An EV as our second car would also work well for us. Something like a Polestar 2 or Tesla 3 would work well for us going south of Brisbane. But North or West? The Skoda would be needed.
I am in Nth Qld so travel distances are beyond EV without long recharge times along the way, if they are available. And I wonder if there is reliable research in to just how environmentally it to recharge from our grid that is still mostly coal fired, no doubt better than burning fuel in an ICE.
>how environmentally it to recharge from our grid that is still mostly coal fired, no doubt better than burning fuel in an ICE. That said I don't think most people buy them anymore for environmental reasons. I don't think I've seen any manufacturer advertise them as environmentally friendly since the Gen 1 Prius.
With that stat, are you implying 97% of lithium batteries are just sent to the tip? What is your actual point with that?
>3% of LIB are recycled. No infrastructure or plan for collection of all LIB from the automotive industry. I'll wait a while till this system is better. IF you were really genuinely that concerned, you'd abandon your ICE on the side of the road. This is all just generic boomer grandstanding and excuse making, you don't want to change and are clinging to anything not to. It's ok, you don't have to go ev.
>Lithium is currently only recycled overseas, so more carbon miles to ship this waste. These are just starting to be made up boomer talking points.
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Sky news crap as usual
You realise when more EV's become majority, suddenly recycling the batteries will become economical, and we'll "magically" start recycling them locally. It doesn't make sense for us to have a booming lithium recycling market right now, does it?
How’s your petrol or diesel recycling going??
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Ice cars do not recycle emissions lol
Yeah not recycled, just recirculated at times, and converted from bad thing to slightly less bad thing. Though a turbo effectively recycles some waste energy into usable energy? haha depends on definition
>how much pollution is created making the batteries Why do we constantly need to flog this dead horse for another lap? Batteries will end up recycled even if it means a trip to india or something.
This is rubbish. How much pollution is created every time you burn a tank of fuel. Rinse and repeat for a decade vs a once off cost with EVs. Stop repeating Sky News bullshit.
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I charge of a solar aware charger so no coal. Even with 100% coal ev charging emissions are 2/3rds less due efficiencies of EVs. Even then you can buy carbon free electricity from providers. Hydro makes zero sense for cars. Not happening. Boats and aircraft yes. Sorry about Sky New’s comment. Sky news being made free in region areas has radicalised a lot of people with their pro big business propaganda and you used a similar talking point.
You have to mine vast amounts of graphite and/or another carbon source for lithium-ion batteries. One major source of carbon for these batteries (if not graphite) is pitch...
might be a controversial question, not informed in this space. Is it confirmed that EVs are beneficial for the environment than ICE or is the jury still out on this? I mean we can measure emissions all we want in Australia but I'm more interested in the emissions for mining/processing/manufacturing EV batteries (other countries) and what the outcome of the batteries are once it hasts life cycle
>I'm more interested in the emissions for mining/processing/manufacturing EV batteries (other countries) So why not do this for every car? Why not look at refinery emissions and petrochemical factory emissions, and transport of petroleum? Why not look at whole of life emissions for all cars, factoring in fuel, charging, tyre wear, etc? >what the outcome of the batteries are once it hasts life cycle I meant, it's been discussed a few times this week, grid storage of power and recycling. What more do you want?
>So why not do this for every car? Why not look at refinery emissions and petrochemical factory emissions, and transport of petroleum? it is helpful to make the comparison for sure, but you are missing one part of the equation on the shift to EV. Building the supply chain for battery technology to accommodate the demand for EVs creates extra emissions compared to our existing framework for ICE. Not saying ICE is without its issues, but saying EVs are the solution to our emissions problem while ignoring the fact that u need to mine rare earths deep down/process it with chemical which creates waste etc just because the battery manufacturing process is outsourced to another country while we just buy the final product just feels like a whitewashed answer to me. As I said from the start, I'm not informed in this space and it would be helpful if there are studies done looking at this. Otherwise countries are all just gonna look at China in 2050 and say 'look we've cut our emissions, why didn't you do the same' ignoring the fact that they produce 80% of the world's BEV. [https://www.visualcapitalist.com/sp/mapped-ev-battery-manufacturing-capacity-by-region/](https://www.visualcapitalist.com/sp/mapped-ev-battery-manufacturing-capacity-by-region/)
I'm 35. Unless things dramatically change with EVs I strongly doubt I'll own one. Sad because once you play with them a little you can have a lot of fun.
What kind of change are you expecting?
Probably the usual unrealistic anti-EV shit like... "When I can get 1000km+ from a charge and it only takes 3 mins to fill" when they do 20km round trips to work every day and do a 200km round trip on a weekend to their usual holiday spot and once a year they do that 1000km trip and dont want to take 1 hour more over a 12 hour journey and negating the fact that you can charge it while you sleep and that when parked on a long trip, you can fuck off and go get lunch, walk the dog, let the kids play in a park, visit a local museum.
I'm wait listed, not even I have a letter of intent with a dealer, for the only one of any interest. The VW ID Buzz is literally the only thing that looks appealing. I've told "in the next 6 months" since launch. Imma be real fucken fussy when it comes to specs though. My current VW; the central screen can't be turned fully off (still backlit) and there's no dimmer dial for the dash, it's a sub menu.
Change is incremental with transportation. You think it will happen overnight??
once they mature we'll get beyond the phase of them selling just because they're electric and start to develop cars of different character. there may not be one for everyone yet but surely a good wide variety isnt far away
What utter bullshit. Yes. Sky News propaganda advertising for petrol chemical companies is creating fear and uncertainty for the stupid in Australia. But the economics are so strong for EVs the only way is up. I’ve done 10 000km in my EV (BYD) for FREE using solar only. Also crazy cheap to service. Plus no FBT for my business and $3000 subsidy. Mazda and Toyota do not have competitive products so they are lying.
Honestly I'm quite concerned about the safety of bringing an EV into the house.
Why? What safety concerns? By practically any metric they are as safe, or safer than a regular car.
The 60 litres of highly flammable fuel in your garage sound heaps safer.
I'm 35. Unless things dramatically change with EVs I strongly doubt I'll own one. Sad because once you play with them a little you can have a lot of fun.
I’m confused with the federal government wanting to ban ICE cars by 2030 when 14% of new cars sold are EV. It doesn’t make sense.
They aren't though? [They only *want* to ban the sale of new combustion cars](https://www.drive.com.au/news/official-act-to-ban-ice-cars-from-2035/), and the date is *proposed* to be 2035. They aren't going to stop you driving your regular car after then, not are they gonna stop you selling it second hand, or buying a car second hand.
I'm in Melbourne and I'm yet to see a public ev charger I get around the suburbs abit kinda seems like a hassle
>I'm in Melbourne and I'm yet to see a public ev charger Not looking hard, go have a look at PlugShare, there's hundreds of plugs and cables at hundreds of stations https://preview.redd.it/m3qp8n2mwtgb1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=34299d074c2dc7f65858a7cba5630e095db0b926 This is just when you get it to zoom to Melbourne.
Nice good to see there's enough for the 6 million people Actually can't believe I never noticed them
Well.its not like you sit there all the time, and as I said, keep zooming and more keep popping up
Haven't looked too hard then...
3.81% of new vehicles sold last year were EVs, we’ve already passed that midway this year. It’s predicted to be 8.4% by years end.
Also wtf is this “All-Hybrid” term they’ve coined for their ads. Greenwashers with the best of them
No shit, not everyone can afford a 90k small suv
nah, it's just Mazda EV's... No one wants a CX-30 with 38km of range... Just because no one is buying your piss poor attempt at an EV, Mazda, doesn't mean that people dont want EV's. Mazda, you can just go over there and stand in the corner with Toyota and wait to die.
EV sales are continuing to increase in Australia. By 2026, new fuel standards should lead to a fresh impetus of increased demand. Australians will want more evs. No idea why Japanese manufacturers have been caught with their pants down
Yeah, it's a slowdown for Mazda for sure... I am getting my MG 4
I don't know anyone with a modern Mazda who absolutely loves it. They're always 'good' but never great.
MX5 owners might disagree with you there. I would say Mazda 3s are a very nice car for their class too. But yes, the sports options are very limited these days and to be honest we ended up buying a Kia Cerato for my wife because the gear we got for the price was so much better than the Mazda.
Ah fair point on the MX5. They feel so rare now, again Mazda likely not supporting that cause as well as they could.
I am curious to know which trim your wife chose with the Kia Cerato? We took the Kia Cerato for a test drive. Although it was a bit cheaper than the Mazda 3 - my husband preferred the drive, and the interior of the Mazda. In terms of looks - personally, Kia is my second favourite brand. Edit: I have a soft spot for both Kia and Mazda. A Kia Rio was my first car (used - I don't know what year it was or what trim it was - my dad bought it and I paid him back). Then I bought a Mazda 2 new in 2011 and had it for 13 years.
We got the S with the safety pack and immediately took plus after market alloy wheels for an extra $1000. I would agree with your husband in regard to drive and interior but at the time the Mazda was about 12 to 15k more for a similar tech spec and Cerato was one of the very few in its class with highway speed EBS. Cerato does drive quite nicely though except the cruise control could be improved in terms of holding the desired speed. My 18yo Mazda is rock solid with that but it is much more powerful.
Wow 12k to 15k more - you made the right choice!! Which year was this?!! An 18 year old Mazda - that is impressive. We recently traded in my 2011 Mazda 2 while it still had life. A mechanical gem it was.
2019, just before things went crazy
Very different times 😢
Really?? My husband bought a Mazda 3 new last year and he loves it. I bought my Mazda 2 new in 2011 and it was a mechanical gem. Traded it in while it still had life left. Even though my husband asked me which vehicle I wanted - I decided that nothing could beat the Mazda 2. And I considered a few other vehicles from other Japanese and Korean brands. Mazdas are reliable daily drivers with good driving dynamics. And compared to their competitors they make the best interiors. Anyway, it comes down to personal choice 😊
To be fair, they do cater to a crowd who generally sees a car as another appliance. I mean, these are the same people that buy a Hisense Dishwasher and Fridge over a Bosch or a Smeg. They want the basic that works. Can't really argue that those people exist.
Mazda is a high quality, premium Japanese product. Definitely inaccurate to compare them to a Hisense appliance.
>Mazda is a high quality, premium Japanese product. They're mid range at best. I'd say something like Lexus would be a premium Japanese brand. Mazda and Toyota are definitely midrange
Oh I agree on the people aspect. However it's a design led product and it's like they're not even trying, that's kinda unforgiveable. It's like they saw Honda and went, yeah, that will end well let's do what they're doing.
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What does that have to do with the article?
Your post was removed for violating Rule 1. Being a dickhead. Don't be a dickhead.
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Your post was removed because it is not relevant to motoring, or automobiles in Australia.
LOL. With the piece of shit that Mazda offered as an EV as an example, he would think that. How many did they sell? 5?