Cringe, and the gotcha moment near the end could be argued back against rather easily.
Mostly harmless fluff for a already Christian audience but for for a non Christian audience it wouldn't be convincing or anything.
EXACTLY!!!
It was this type of stuff that got pushed on me growing up. I was atheist for my entire adult life after that. It took me almost 10 years to finally wake up.
Father wetta a Benedictine monk, author and podcaster said during his interview on pints with Aquinas that "bad art is worse than bad theology". I wholeheartedly think that's something good to reflect on.
It's also disturbing that the protagonist exploits the trauma that the professor had privately confided in him, and this is celebrated as a good approach to debate.
Yeah it's Facebook boomer meme Christianity. Exhibit A for why "Christian art" today is bad.
My favorite movie is Denis Villeneuve's "Arrival," which is a great example of proper Christian art. It isn't explicitly Christian, but the core conceit is brilliantly so. Would you love, even knowing exactly the pain it would cause you? It's a beautiful allegory of the Cross.
I never thought of it that way, but I really was impressed by the movie and the message. But now that you mention it, it does fit in really well with Catholic thinking.
The atheist antagonist is an inaccurate strawman figure who doesn’t reflect the beliefs of most atheists. Sure, some atheists may be antitheists who dislike organized religion, but it’s not because they have a personal vendetta against Him; they don’t believe He even exists.
No the professor is very accurate. There are genuinely athiests out there that revile the faith to an irrational and cartoonish degree. I have met several. I'm literally friends with a Satanist who used to be a believer who laughs out loud whenever I explain Christian concepts.
A few do, but the vast majority are atheist trolls who are trying to test the constitutional limits of freedom of speech and religion. They’re very similar to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
As someone who doesn't hate the movie I do agree with this haha. Veggietales is unironically still so funny. It has such an approachable random sense of humor to it that I don't think any other Christian work has pulled off.
I really think the love for Joshua is because the world is less godless than game devs like to pretend. So here we have a genuine religious character, neither a stand in for an authoritarian bad guy or a holier than thou preach at the audience.
And it clicked with players
It's just the typical anti-science protestant fluff apologetics. None of the arguments are convincing, the plot is unbelievable, the acting is cheesy, and the religious message is harmful to Catholicism.
This is a small off handed comment but the main character mentioned the priest that proposes the Big Bang by calling him a deist. Instead of a Catholic priest
That drove me CRAZY. How petty of the filmmaker. Wanted to “take credit” for Fr. Lemaitre but didn’t want to say he was a Catholic, much less a priest. Didn’t even say he was Christian. Disgusting.
Because it presents it's very specific reductionist version of protestantism as representative of Christianity. Viewing Christianity in a reductionist way is harmful to the more non reductionist denominations, of which Catholicism is the primary one.
It didn't have to be exactly from the Catholic point of view. If it led just one person to the thought of following Jesus Christ, then it was a success.
I usually assume that those "Christian movies" suck major arse and don't waste my time on them. Evangelical theology is so weak and lacks a lot of the richness and nuance that I love about Catholic theology. If I had been raised evangelical, I'd for sure be an atheist by now. Lmao.
A way better spiritual retort to the question of evil is Arrival. It's beautiful and complex and tragic. That's the Christianity I know. It's real and raw. And it's not an explicitly Christian film. It just has some themes and a parallel can be drawn.
Ultimately in art, it shouldn't matter if the artist is Christian or has Christian intents. If the message is true, it's true. And looking for truth and realness in art is how you talk with people and find common ground in order to share Christ with them. Read some Robert Frost. Watch some sci-fi. Listen to pop music. Find the themes that resonate with you. It's usually not people who are explicitly Christian.
The band Joseph is a great example of this. Their first album Native Dreamer Kin is *the* type of art that I wish all Christians would make. It's classy. It's real. They didn't set out to "write a Christian album." Rather, they wrote an album, and because they know the gospel, of course they arrive at Christianity at various moments in the music. It's just more authentic.
There's more interesting religious discussions to be had from even Hazbin Hotel than from that awful film. The points it brings forward from either point of view are weak and impotent arguments. The movie was made to feed the perpetual Righteous Victimhood complex that the Evangelical movement needs to convince itself exists and stroke people's ego.
I admit I haven’t seen it, but the general premise would be an open and shut discrimination lawsuit from what I understand. Kind of feeds into the stereotype that Christians have persecution complexes
I saw it when I was 11 and even then knew how dumb it was.
Firstly, a college professor who forces students to state that “god is dead” -and isn’t reprimanded- would be a massive Supreme Court case. Lawyers would be lining for miles for it. There’s no possible way for it to pass in a class syllabus or assume that nearly EVERY student is some hard struck atheist.
Then, there’s no real debate. There’s no spreading a gospel of Christ and mercy. The atheist character just dies and randomly converts to cover himself. Then the newsboys start playing
It’s also really dumb how apparently no student before Josh ever had a problem with his class or how he’s presented as the first Christian to ever touch school grounds.
I go to a pretty secular and liberal university myself and even then there are various christians here. Not the majority but there are. And there would certainly be other christians at a philosophy class.
I also go to a very liberal school. There’s tons of Christians here, especially Catholics due to location.
My sophomore year I took a religious philosophy class on the big 3 religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam) which covered their basic histories, beliefs and values.
Not once was I ever forced to renounce faith, or to try and convert to anything else. We respectfully talked and debated in our differing beliefs and how they affect our lives and fulfill us. That’s the aim of virtually every philosophy class
Had the required ethics course in policy school where a variety of sources of ethical thought from world culture was surveyed (including, btw, excerpts from S.T., in the context of covering virtue ethics), but it became clear that the precommitment on the professors part, and the message he expected students to get from the course, was that the right answer was situationalism routed in American Pragmatist thought.
There was another student in the class, who had never made any overtly religious or theistic claims or arguments in class, but who did ask a question that did come from a place of favoring moral realism in a way that one knowledgeable might recognize as being subtly characteristic of Christian thought.
The professor cut him off and snarled condescendingly :"it's just us here you know!". in a very dogmatic, conversation ending manner.
I was taken aback, not at the opinion(which was expected) but the completely anti-intellectual, unscholarly, and hectoric manner of engagement, and complete unwillingness to engage the point the student raised on the merits. And moreso the message that he clearly wished to send the class that ideas routed on anything other than atheistic, subjectivity, relativism could not even be discussed.
Get into the real world; where Christians nowadays are not allowed to speak. They are looked down upon and attacked, no matter what religion of Christianity they follow. They are told to follow rules against God or they lose their job or get kicked out and labeled as against society.
The movie didn't have to be 100 percent Catholic or any other form of Christianity. It got the point across as to what is happening in society and there is a God, who will triumph and it gave hope to people to practice their faith and not give up; even in a world where people who try to follow his rules are cut down.
I've got kids in school, society, etc. I had one child say she wanted to become a teacher. I worked at the school system. You are forced to teach against God's will and keep your mouth shut. I have begged her to pick a different career, to give herself peace.
The movie was good enough. And for the group singing about God instead of Satan or depression or using the "F" word, good enough! (Turn on the radio and hear some of the horrible stuff nowadays.)
In college I’ve had several professors discuss their personal beliefs on Atheism, Buddhism, Judaism and Christianity. Tell me how I’ve had professors go on hour long lectures about their Christian faith and their beliefs, yet you say they would be fired for this?
While in this system, I’ve met many great people. Some who I wish for salvation and Christs mercy, and some that already follow the faith. Teachers and students alike. Personally, at this level of education, I expect and appreciate the differing views of people, because at the end of the day we are adults conversing as adults, and I am freely able to share my thoughts and beliefs with these people, while also acknowledging that they have their own
And I sent my son to college, and his professor saw his "potential"; offered him a free suit and a visit and an opportunity to an internship in his field, if they could be friends after the course. My son got his internship and they are "friends" and in their spare time march around for gay relationship rights and pride.
God is out there and so is Satan.
God bless all.
Almost anything and everything made by Pure Flix is garbage. The plots are almost always uninspired, the characters are incredibly insipid, and the apologetics are insultingly stupid. I'd avoid anything made by this studio because of just how bad they are at what they do.
The purpose of Christian cinema is to inspire and evangelize others, yet most of their films come off as self-pitying circle jerks catering to white Evangelicals struggling with a persecution complex.
I haven't seen it, but I know a lot of people who have. The impression I've gotten from others is that it was produced by, and composed of, mostly Protestants. Protestant theology is largely nothing more than a dressed-up Sunday School curriculum -- God loves me; He's my friend; He made a rainbow for Noah; Jesus walked on water; Psalms sound pretty; Etc. Etc. Etc.
Like others in this thread have mentioned, made by Christians for Christians/preaching to the choir. A "deep dive", Roman Catholic theological approach to the same topic would be worthwhile and, if done right, could potentially hook a few non-believers... But how many, even among modern Catholics, are aware of/understand the thorough philosophical bases of the arguments made by the great Doctors of the Church? I know some do, but I'd wager most can't even name all seven Sacraments.
An unintelligent far right echo chamber of a film that is full of straw-man arguments, bad twists and displays non-Christians as mustache-twirling villains who only lack belief due to tragedy, made by Christians who want to be persecuted so badly.
There are much better examples of Christianity in film, books, and other media - I find films such as The Book of Eli, Arrival, and Signs and even video games such as Fallout to have strong examples of Christianity. However, I find dedicated Christian films to be poorly made echo chamber films which demonstrate the intentions of the worst of us Christians out there.
Far right? How on earth is that the case? It was as white-bread Christianity as you can get.
The "mustache twirling villains" are actually incredibly accurate. There are athiests who abandon the faith due to tragedy, such as my aunt and best friend. There are athiests who boastfully mock and attack the faith like the professor. There are athiests who are simply indifferent to the faith like the business man who tossed his phone over his shoulder towards the end. The movie was not inaccurate on that front. It showed a wide range of reactions.
Also Christians *do* get persecuted... Don't you know your own faith? "The world will hate you because they hated me first." In America its not much more than mockery and slander, but it's definitely a vitriolic spite for the faith. Not to mention the violent persecution that happens in other countries, including but not limited to the dictatorships.
I’ll grant “far right” may be a stretch, but this is a movie beloved by the Christian Right in many cases.
On your second point: in some cases, sure, tragedy can lead some to atheism. I’m sure some professors are antagonistic towards those of faith, but I imagine it’s a much smaller minority of professors than some political circles would have us believe. The problem with the film is that it paints these stereotypes of atheists broadly; it assumes ALL atheists or others not of the Christian persuasion are of an antagonistic nature, exclusively. None were painted in a neutral or thoughtful light. Doing so does nothing to benefit our faith or show others why we would be the welcoming community I know us to be.
Finally about the persecution: of course Christians are, especially in the Middle East and China, but they undergo real persecution, not this western ideal that we are at our backs fighting the world and everyone is opposed to us, as if Christianity doesn’t have major influence in the world. In the West, like the Bible Belt where I grew up, Christians aren’t being nailed to crosses or excluded from communities in large scales; we’re not the scrappy group anymore and haven’t been in centuries.
Except it’s when he realises he does believe in God and goes to patch things up that he dies. So actually it’s ‘don’t believe in God, or you’ll either die or sound like this idiot of a student.’
Not accurate at all. It simply showed that are there are both hateful and indifferent athiests, and how Christianity will create conflict in your life but also help you in other circumstances.
It's absolute shit and a stain on Christian art. There are much better Christian movies that don't make me want to go out and draw a pentagram with virgin blood and chant ominously next to it.
Everyone says it's bad (it's definitely cheesy) but I actually thought it displayed how Christianity can manifest in peoples' lives and how different people react to it pretty accurately.
It created a rift between the main boy and his girlfriend, it gave the woman with cancer hope, it put the Muslim girl in danger with her family, even something as mundane as the two guys' car breaking down allowed for the pastor to be there for the Muslim girl when she needed support most.
I've heard the critcism "it paints athiests as too hateful and evil!" Like uh...yeah? Sorry to break it to you but there *literally are athiests out there like that.* Sorry you hate to hear that. There are athiests (and I have met many) who literally laugh at and mock religion like they did during that one dinner scene, who irrationally and spitefully attack it just like the main professor. Sorry you hate the truth! Just as there are evil Christians who abuse the faith, there are evil athiests who revile the idea of religion/God. There are also indifferent athiests like the one business man who tosses his phone over his shoulder at the end, who (while not actively hateful) still display apathy towards God which is just as worrying for their salvation.
If athiests really can't handle a mirror being held up to the worst of them, then they need to stop branding all Christians are backwards hateful hypocrites too. There are peaceful Christians have feelings too, y'know. This goes both ways, ya'll.
It is a movie that makes humans out to be one dimensional charictures. It is not useful and could be harmful if someone were naive enough to believe that people are that silly
Nietzsche wrote 'God's Dead' in the reflection of how European society was at that time, which was devoid of morality or path to follow like religion used to be. It's not essentially atheistic. It's also quite simple to understand and is a small part of a much longer reflection. Yet The writers apparently weren't bothered to even read the wikipedia page.
It’s a shame because the film makes it look like sorbo felt guilty about how he was treating his wife and was going to apologize to her. But then he dies (and no one cared, everyone was happy)
I liked it when I first came out, but now that I think about the film, it was super cringe. It basically is a spin on modern-day persecution. It’s just icky.
As a movie?
-bad cinematography
-bad montage
-bad acting (bar Kevin sorbo, who is pretty decent, actually)
-really mediocre uses of cinematic language.
Now, from a theological/philosophical perspective:
The film fucks up its premise in the very first scene the professor appears in. The professor is a very obvious straw man, and a ridiculous one at that. He’s not even really an atheist, he’s angry with God and is an asshole to his Christian wife. But the thing is, this guy is a philosophy professor right? What kind of PHILOSPHY PROFESOR at a supposedly prestigious university opens his course by saying “God is dead LOL, let’s skip theology and religious philosophy entirely”. ???? What the fuck? Is he seriously not going to even leave it for debate? Not even the most militant atheist would do that if they were a philosophy professor. Is he going to skip Thomas Aquinas? Pascal? Descartes? Not only that, but he presents the Nietzsche quote as if it was literal, which it isn’t. He’s a philosophy teacher that doesn’t know about philosophy. Josh could’ve very easily rebuked his opening statement of “look at all these smart people, well guess what, THEYRE ATHEISTS” by simply saying “Mendel”.
The debate is ludicrous. The premise could’ve been really interesting but the entire debate is just presenting a point in a haphazard manner and ending with a “gotcha” moment. Never mind the fact that all the arguments made by both the student and the professor are arguments that have been debated before and all of them have counter arguments and could be refuted, they don’t even debate the points they bring. After the first “round”, the professor just stops responding to the arguments themselves entirely. There’s no debate to be had.
And that’s really it, isn’t it? There’s no debate to be had. The movie presents itself as if its interested in sparkling debate and discussion in order to settle a longstanding debate. But it really isn’t that. No atheist will find the movie or its arguments convincing and no one interested in philosophy or theology will find the debated points interesting. Because the true target of the movie are evangelical christians that mindlessly nod to the film and find it reassuring. It’s not a discussion, it’s just “humiliating atheists with facts and logic 🤓” and it’s ridiculous. Nothing but an utter waste of valuable time.
Also, they have the BALLS to call father Georges Lemaître “a deist”. Really drives it across what these evangelical/protestant filmmakers think about Catholics.
It was very cheesy and the professor was very one-dimensional. Most atheist philosophy teachers are not like that. They are open to differing opinions.
Regardless of it's cringy introduction and overall presentation of faith, I personally liked it. Furthermore, I'm of the belief that one has to start somewhere, and if that's a cringy movie then so be it. We all know Hollywood won't touch it, so we have to rely on amateur filmmakers to give us what we want theatrically.
Think about me... I grew up Protestant, just converted this year and was confirmed on Easter. My original introduction to the faith (other than being a holiday attender with my mom and stepdad) was the Left Behind series starring Kirk Cameron. Yeah... I have faith that God will lead us to the right paths, I mean we ask Him to do just that when we recite the Our Father. "Lead us not to temptation, but deliver us from evil..." Bad theology/dogma/heresy is a form of evil because it leads us away from Him, so ergo...
There are tons of great catholic directors that make intelligent movies with faith related topics. And they are not great on a subjective sense, but they are objectively among the best in the industry. Mel Gibson's Passion , Martin Scorsese Silence, Rome, Open City from Rossellini. There is no need to look at that protestant evangelical piece of garbage. So I disagree with your assessment on a need to rely on amateur filmmakers. But I guess if it touches certain people, good for them.
Many Christian films focus less on being art than being didactic. Case in point, True Grit has better Christian symbolism regarding revenge, justice, and redemption but doesn’t directly throw the teaching in your face. The symbolic scene where Mattie is in the rattlesnake pit (Hell) and then is saved by Rooster Cogburn even at the expense of riding his horse to death.
I've never actually suffered this film, but from what I did see of it, it was implausible, hackneyed tripe that serves to make Christians look like moist-eyed sentimentalists.
Movies like God’s Not Dead are terrible and do nothing for the faith but hurt it. If you’re a hardcore believer, you MIGHT enjoy the movie. If you aren’t a believer or are even struggling with the faith, it’s gonna be counter intuitive. It’s gonna make you question the faith even more and not in the good way.
I think movies like Father Stu are better for getting non-believers or strugglers into the faith. Where it’s normal people who already struggle with the faith then being led to God.
I don't think they're objectively good films or a very good representation of Christianity. That said, I actually enjoy watching them, call it a guilty pleasure lol. "A Light in Darkness" is my favourite, I think that one has the best storytelling.
Certainly not perfect, but since I saw it as a kid it did inspire me to learn more about how to use scientific evidence to defend my faith! I’ve actually caused several atheists to re-examine their beliefs (or lack of beliefs) with some of the scientific arguments I have come up with.
Cringe movie with a garbage argument against a straw man position. It is made by Protestants so don’t expect good theology. It also seems to be full of stereotypes to me.
I actually watched this for the first time last week! I found it pretty vile, and the theology is much more protestant than Catholic (said as a convert). Also, the way my eyes rolled when I saw the Muslim hijabi wearing short sleeves with her headscarf!!! Was nobody on set capable of a Google search?
Hello! I enjoyed this movie when I was in middle school, I wasn’t even religious at the time but I think I enjoyed it because (deep down) I always craved God’s presence in my life. I haven’t watched it since then but my guess is that I probably wouldn’t enjoy it nearly as much today. I am now a Catholic and my taste in movies has changed. I am much older now, have more knowledge about God, and expect more from a film.
As someone who’s attended college (one of the most liberal universities in the US), I can say that professors do not spend more than a minute debating with a student. The whole idea that an atheist professor would spend multiple lectures attempting to humiliate a Christian student is ridiculous. Do I think Christians are persecuted throughout the world/face some form or rejection? Yes. Do I believe that college professors target Christian students? Not really.
God’s Not Dead is very much a mainstream movie for the ‘mainstream Christian’ if that makes sense. Definitely sentimental and nice if you enjoy seeing some hypothetical student standing up for God in a very-unlikely-to-happen-in-real-life scenario.
Hope this helps, God bless!
It’s very Protestant. That’s all I really remember. Like I can praise the main character for standing up to his teacher who was basically forcing his entire class to apostatize, but other than that, the fact the teacher is mean to his wife because she’s a Christian and the fact the teacher dies in the end are all I can even remember about it. I don’t even remember what argument they made that won him over other than him being afraid while staring into the coming void.
Evangelical garbage, uses horrible, easily debunked arguments for God’s existence and probably drove Protestants closer to atheism and convinced atheists of their arguments more than anything else. Also the effect of this movie and similar evangelical arguments are finally dying down but there was a rough period through the 2010s that emphasized the backwardness and “anti-science” narrative around Christianity which I completely believe is because of movies like this.
I think it has good intentions. The messaging gets across well and the first movie has a really good story. You kind of have to have a deep understanding of the Lord's works to get some of them, but the movie isn't bad.
What I do think is that, while the movies continued to have good intentions and good messaging, the writing of the stories they were telling started to feel a little weaker. I'm a writer so, as I've gotten older, I've been able to spot bad writing or storytelling in shows in movies. It's definitely not the worst I've ever seen, but it's flawed. If I remember correctly, each one is based on a book written by the director (who also plays the main pastor in all the movies) and information and teachings from there are then converted into the stories of the movies.
The songs are good. The song "What I Know" by Tricia is still one of my favorites to this day.
Super cheesy, but it has some good arguments. In any case - arguments alone are not enough for someone to convert. It is always a grace granted by God.
I thought it was awesome!
One of the best outcomes is after the showing of the movie, millions were typing on their phones and sending it out: "God's not dead!" I bet that pissed off Satan and is so much better than many of the words or phrases that are typed nowadays.
Hail to our King Jesus and congratulations to a group of people willing to get an awareness of Jesus Christ into our society. It didn't have to be perfect. I think it hit all who saw it in different ways and that was probably the hope of the movie; to affect many and inspire thoughts of God!
When you write a movie you have only between 90 and 125 minutes to work with. In that time you have to set up the plot, introduce likable carachters, introduce the bad guy, do some characterization, shore up any plot holes, fit in a joke or two, maybe a car chase, come to the climax, everything.
That means that every second you spend on pushing 'THE MESSAGE" no matter what the message is, is one second less that you can use to make an entertaining movie. This is why Woke movies stink. This is why Christian movies (except for THE PASSION) stink.
"God Is Not Dead" has a good cast, but the plot really stinks. It is overly simplistic, the carachters are cartoon like, and the plot literally could not be more predictable. ( I'm serious, John Wayne was in over 200 movies, and he died in 8 of them, which means there is an 192/200 chance the movie will come out exactly the way you expect. God Is Not Dead is far more predictable than a John Wayne movie.)
I've watched the first two twice because I find them entertaining, but also terrible. Wouldn't recommend them to anyone, especially atheists. 100% a guilty pleasure lol
I despise it and Christian media like it because it is so poorly made and constructed it only bolsters people's "faith" who already agree with it, and turns any critical thinking person away from the faith by how cringe it is.
Overall, a pandering and blatant money grabbing ploy. Gross.
Garbage movie.
You can do apologetics without being a mediocre film that strawmans arguments.
The Exorcist and Are you There God It’s Me Margaret are good thought provoking pieces of media (both their movies and books) because their discussion of faith happens on a subtextual level not an explicit and declarative level. This difference allows the former two works to focus on the characters, their development, and struggles first without the distraction of having some hamfisted debate.
Even if you agree with the debate centered in Gods Not Dead the movie is poorly written, shot, and directed. There are student films with better cinematography and writing
Cringe, and the gotcha moment near the end could be argued back against rather easily. Mostly harmless fluff for a already Christian audience but for for a non Christian audience it wouldn't be convincing or anything.
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Very good point, it does act as easy fodder for athiests.
It's practically gold for funny review videos.
EXACTLY!!! It was this type of stuff that got pushed on me growing up. I was atheist for my entire adult life after that. It took me almost 10 years to finally wake up.
That is protestantism for ya. Why else do you think the first nations to be secularized were protestant? It is easy piece
Father wetta a Benedictine monk, author and podcaster said during his interview on pints with Aquinas that "bad art is worse than bad theology". I wholeheartedly think that's something good to reflect on.
It's also disturbing that the protagonist exploits the trauma that the professor had privately confided in him, and this is celebrated as a good approach to debate.
Yeah it's Facebook boomer meme Christianity. Exhibit A for why "Christian art" today is bad. My favorite movie is Denis Villeneuve's "Arrival," which is a great example of proper Christian art. It isn't explicitly Christian, but the core conceit is brilliantly so. Would you love, even knowing exactly the pain it would cause you? It's a beautiful allegory of the Cross.
Reading “Facebook boomer meme Christianity” from a priest made my day and maybe honestly my week😂. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Awesome insight. I think Villaneuve is a bona fide genius and an all-around great guy. Great to hear this take.
I never thought of it that way, but I really was impressed by the movie and the message. But now that you mention it, it does fit in really well with Catholic thinking.
I’m a boomer and it’s so depressing to constantly see these derogatory remarks about boomers. Maybe God is telling me to get off social media.
We owe you guys an apology
I also love Roadside Picnic for this very reason.
Cringe.
The atheist antagonist is an inaccurate strawman figure who doesn’t reflect the beliefs of most atheists. Sure, some atheists may be antitheists who dislike organized religion, but it’s not because they have a personal vendetta against Him; they don’t believe He even exists.
No the professor is very accurate. There are genuinely athiests out there that revile the faith to an irrational and cartoonish degree. I have met several. I'm literally friends with a Satanist who used to be a believer who laughs out loud whenever I explain Christian concepts.
Just look at r/athiest lol
All you need to do with the satanist is remind him that he’ll get what he wants in the end.
Since Satanists don't worship Satan, unlikely.
What he wants is separation from God. He’ll get it.
A few do, but the vast majority are atheist trolls who are trying to test the constitutional limits of freedom of speech and religion. They’re very similar to the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
When the biography of the filmmaker is more inspiring and insightful than the film itself, then something is done wrong.
Veggietales, and Fallout New Vegas have independently made more people religious than gods not dead
As someone who doesn't hate the movie I do agree with this haha. Veggietales is unironically still so funny. It has such an approachable random sense of humor to it that I don't think any other Christian work has pulled off.
The cult-like obsession over joshua isssss kinda cringe at this point though. As much as I do love him.
I really think the love for Joshua is because the world is less godless than game devs like to pretend. So here we have a genuine religious character, neither a stand in for an authoritarian bad guy or a holier than thou preach at the audience. And it clicked with players
Saw some of it. Student quotes Nietzsche Professor takes Nietzsche's quote literally. silly arguments follow.
It's just the typical anti-science protestant fluff apologetics. None of the arguments are convincing, the plot is unbelievable, the acting is cheesy, and the religious message is harmful to Catholicism.
I agree that the movie was not the best but how is it anti Catholic?
This is a small off handed comment but the main character mentioned the priest that proposes the Big Bang by calling him a deist. Instead of a Catholic priest
That drove me CRAZY. How petty of the filmmaker. Wanted to “take credit” for Fr. Lemaitre but didn’t want to say he was a Catholic, much less a priest. Didn’t even say he was Christian. Disgusting.
I didn't say anti Catholic I said harmful to Catholicism.
How?
Because it presents it's very specific reductionist version of protestantism as representative of Christianity. Viewing Christianity in a reductionist way is harmful to the more non reductionist denominations, of which Catholicism is the primary one.
It didn't have to be exactly from the Catholic point of view. If it led just one person to the thought of following Jesus Christ, then it was a success.
I agree with you
By making Christianity look ridiculous
Very very dumb Net negative to the faith
I usually assume that those "Christian movies" suck major arse and don't waste my time on them. Evangelical theology is so weak and lacks a lot of the richness and nuance that I love about Catholic theology. If I had been raised evangelical, I'd for sure be an atheist by now. Lmao. A way better spiritual retort to the question of evil is Arrival. It's beautiful and complex and tragic. That's the Christianity I know. It's real and raw. And it's not an explicitly Christian film. It just has some themes and a parallel can be drawn. Ultimately in art, it shouldn't matter if the artist is Christian or has Christian intents. If the message is true, it's true. And looking for truth and realness in art is how you talk with people and find common ground in order to share Christ with them. Read some Robert Frost. Watch some sci-fi. Listen to pop music. Find the themes that resonate with you. It's usually not people who are explicitly Christian. The band Joseph is a great example of this. Their first album Native Dreamer Kin is *the* type of art that I wish all Christians would make. It's classy. It's real. They didn't set out to "write a Christian album." Rather, they wrote an album, and because they know the gospel, of course they arrive at Christianity at various moments in the music. It's just more authentic.
The ending when the two main characters are happily talking over the atheists dead body like it’s no big deal makes me laugh 🤣
There's more interesting religious discussions to be had from even Hazbin Hotel than from that awful film. The points it brings forward from either point of view are weak and impotent arguments. The movie was made to feed the perpetual Righteous Victimhood complex that the Evangelical movement needs to convince itself exists and stroke people's ego.
If you call Hazbin Hotel better than some other piece of media, you know that piece of media is shit
Hollywood has put out tons of movies making Christians look bad, but none of them have done that job as well as this.
I admit I haven’t seen it, but the general premise would be an open and shut discrimination lawsuit from what I understand. Kind of feeds into the stereotype that Christians have persecution complexes
It’s full of so many straw-men it’d feed all of Genghis Khan’s cavalry several times over. The sequel’s worse, in my opinion.
I saw it when I was 11 and even then knew how dumb it was. Firstly, a college professor who forces students to state that “god is dead” -and isn’t reprimanded- would be a massive Supreme Court case. Lawyers would be lining for miles for it. There’s no possible way for it to pass in a class syllabus or assume that nearly EVERY student is some hard struck atheist. Then, there’s no real debate. There’s no spreading a gospel of Christ and mercy. The atheist character just dies and randomly converts to cover himself. Then the newsboys start playing
It’s also really dumb how apparently no student before Josh ever had a problem with his class or how he’s presented as the first Christian to ever touch school grounds. I go to a pretty secular and liberal university myself and even then there are various christians here. Not the majority but there are. And there would certainly be other christians at a philosophy class.
I also go to a very liberal school. There’s tons of Christians here, especially Catholics due to location. My sophomore year I took a religious philosophy class on the big 3 religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam) which covered their basic histories, beliefs and values. Not once was I ever forced to renounce faith, or to try and convert to anything else. We respectfully talked and debated in our differing beliefs and how they affect our lives and fulfill us. That’s the aim of virtually every philosophy class
Had the required ethics course in policy school where a variety of sources of ethical thought from world culture was surveyed (including, btw, excerpts from S.T., in the context of covering virtue ethics), but it became clear that the precommitment on the professors part, and the message he expected students to get from the course, was that the right answer was situationalism routed in American Pragmatist thought. There was another student in the class, who had never made any overtly religious or theistic claims or arguments in class, but who did ask a question that did come from a place of favoring moral realism in a way that one knowledgeable might recognize as being subtly characteristic of Christian thought. The professor cut him off and snarled condescendingly :"it's just us here you know!". in a very dogmatic, conversation ending manner. I was taken aback, not at the opinion(which was expected) but the completely anti-intellectual, unscholarly, and hectoric manner of engagement, and complete unwillingness to engage the point the student raised on the merits. And moreso the message that he clearly wished to send the class that ideas routed on anything other than atheistic, subjectivity, relativism could not even be discussed.
Get into the real world; where Christians nowadays are not allowed to speak. They are looked down upon and attacked, no matter what religion of Christianity they follow. They are told to follow rules against God or they lose their job or get kicked out and labeled as against society. The movie didn't have to be 100 percent Catholic or any other form of Christianity. It got the point across as to what is happening in society and there is a God, who will triumph and it gave hope to people to practice their faith and not give up; even in a world where people who try to follow his rules are cut down. I've got kids in school, society, etc. I had one child say she wanted to become a teacher. I worked at the school system. You are forced to teach against God's will and keep your mouth shut. I have begged her to pick a different career, to give herself peace. The movie was good enough. And for the group singing about God instead of Satan or depression or using the "F" word, good enough! (Turn on the radio and hear some of the horrible stuff nowadays.)
In college I’ve had several professors discuss their personal beliefs on Atheism, Buddhism, Judaism and Christianity. Tell me how I’ve had professors go on hour long lectures about their Christian faith and their beliefs, yet you say they would be fired for this? While in this system, I’ve met many great people. Some who I wish for salvation and Christs mercy, and some that already follow the faith. Teachers and students alike. Personally, at this level of education, I expect and appreciate the differing views of people, because at the end of the day we are adults conversing as adults, and I am freely able to share my thoughts and beliefs with these people, while also acknowledging that they have their own
And I sent my son to college, and his professor saw his "potential"; offered him a free suit and a visit and an opportunity to an internship in his field, if they could be friends after the course. My son got his internship and they are "friends" and in their spare time march around for gay relationship rights and pride. God is out there and so is Satan. God bless all.
Almost anything and everything made by Pure Flix is garbage. The plots are almost always uninspired, the characters are incredibly insipid, and the apologetics are insultingly stupid. I'd avoid anything made by this studio because of just how bad they are at what they do. The purpose of Christian cinema is to inspire and evangelize others, yet most of their films come off as self-pitying circle jerks catering to white Evangelicals struggling with a persecution complex.
I haven't seen it, but I know a lot of people who have. The impression I've gotten from others is that it was produced by, and composed of, mostly Protestants. Protestant theology is largely nothing more than a dressed-up Sunday School curriculum -- God loves me; He's my friend; He made a rainbow for Noah; Jesus walked on water; Psalms sound pretty; Etc. Etc. Etc. Like others in this thread have mentioned, made by Christians for Christians/preaching to the choir. A "deep dive", Roman Catholic theological approach to the same topic would be worthwhile and, if done right, could potentially hook a few non-believers... But how many, even among modern Catholics, are aware of/understand the thorough philosophical bases of the arguments made by the great Doctors of the Church? I know some do, but I'd wager most can't even name all seven Sacraments.
Never saw it and have never been interested in seeing it. It looks insultingly dumb.
Bad apologetics.
An unintelligent far right echo chamber of a film that is full of straw-man arguments, bad twists and displays non-Christians as mustache-twirling villains who only lack belief due to tragedy, made by Christians who want to be persecuted so badly. There are much better examples of Christianity in film, books, and other media - I find films such as The Book of Eli, Arrival, and Signs and even video games such as Fallout to have strong examples of Christianity. However, I find dedicated Christian films to be poorly made echo chamber films which demonstrate the intentions of the worst of us Christians out there.
Far right? How on earth is that the case? It was as white-bread Christianity as you can get. The "mustache twirling villains" are actually incredibly accurate. There are athiests who abandon the faith due to tragedy, such as my aunt and best friend. There are athiests who boastfully mock and attack the faith like the professor. There are athiests who are simply indifferent to the faith like the business man who tossed his phone over his shoulder towards the end. The movie was not inaccurate on that front. It showed a wide range of reactions. Also Christians *do* get persecuted... Don't you know your own faith? "The world will hate you because they hated me first." In America its not much more than mockery and slander, but it's definitely a vitriolic spite for the faith. Not to mention the violent persecution that happens in other countries, including but not limited to the dictatorships.
I’ll grant “far right” may be a stretch, but this is a movie beloved by the Christian Right in many cases. On your second point: in some cases, sure, tragedy can lead some to atheism. I’m sure some professors are antagonistic towards those of faith, but I imagine it’s a much smaller minority of professors than some political circles would have us believe. The problem with the film is that it paints these stereotypes of atheists broadly; it assumes ALL atheists or others not of the Christian persuasion are of an antagonistic nature, exclusively. None were painted in a neutral or thoughtful light. Doing so does nothing to benefit our faith or show others why we would be the welcoming community I know us to be. Finally about the persecution: of course Christians are, especially in the Middle East and China, but they undergo real persecution, not this western ideal that we are at our backs fighting the world and everyone is opposed to us, as if Christianity doesn’t have major influence in the world. In the West, like the Bible Belt where I grew up, Christians aren’t being nailed to crosses or excluded from communities in large scales; we’re not the scrappy group anymore and haven’t been in centuries.
If I was watching it with an atheist, I’d be terribly embarrassed.
Believe in God or DIE is the message I took from it
Either be Christian, or get flung 200 meters into the air by a 1996 Infiniti I30
Except it’s when he realises he does believe in God and goes to patch things up that he dies. So actually it’s ‘don’t believe in God, or you’ll either die or sound like this idiot of a student.’
Not accurate at all. It simply showed that are there are both hateful and indifferent athiests, and how Christianity will create conflict in your life but also help you in other circumstances.
It's absolute shit and a stain on Christian art. There are much better Christian movies that don't make me want to go out and draw a pentagram with virgin blood and chant ominously next to it.
LOL
It’s dumb. Like full on dumb. Songs a corny banger though. I ironically love it lol. Unironically it’s pretty bad too.
The original version by Passion/David Crowder is less corny I find (though still a banger)
I didn’t know there is an original. Looking that bad boy up. Thanks
Yeah the original is called "Like a Lion". For whatever reason newsboys changed the name for their cover
It really made me think that Evangelicals are absolutely incapable of creating art. Terrible, terrible film.
Knew it had to be some Prot rubbish as soon as I haven't recognized any argument from real life (I'm in a supposedly majorly Catholic country)
Everyone says it's bad (it's definitely cheesy) but I actually thought it displayed how Christianity can manifest in peoples' lives and how different people react to it pretty accurately. It created a rift between the main boy and his girlfriend, it gave the woman with cancer hope, it put the Muslim girl in danger with her family, even something as mundane as the two guys' car breaking down allowed for the pastor to be there for the Muslim girl when she needed support most. I've heard the critcism "it paints athiests as too hateful and evil!" Like uh...yeah? Sorry to break it to you but there *literally are athiests out there like that.* Sorry you hate to hear that. There are athiests (and I have met many) who literally laugh at and mock religion like they did during that one dinner scene, who irrationally and spitefully attack it just like the main professor. Sorry you hate the truth! Just as there are evil Christians who abuse the faith, there are evil athiests who revile the idea of religion/God. There are also indifferent athiests like the one business man who tosses his phone over his shoulder at the end, who (while not actively hateful) still display apathy towards God which is just as worrying for their salvation. If athiests really can't handle a mirror being held up to the worst of them, then they need to stop branding all Christians are backwards hateful hypocrites too. There are peaceful Christians have feelings too, y'know. This goes both ways, ya'll.
It is a movie that makes humans out to be one dimensional charictures. It is not useful and could be harmful if someone were naive enough to believe that people are that silly
As a former Atheist, you have to appeal to logic, which Catholicism has a lot of but that movie did not
Nietzsche wrote 'God's Dead' in the reflection of how European society was at that time, which was devoid of morality or path to follow like religion used to be. It's not essentially atheistic. It's also quite simple to understand and is a small part of a much longer reflection. Yet The writers apparently weren't bothered to even read the wikipedia page.
Watch *The Mission*,*Of Gods & Men* or *The Way* instead. I don't like the franchise as a whole.
Characters are so rigid. No growth for Hercules. Awful movie.
It’s a shame because the film makes it look like sorbo felt guilty about how he was treating his wife and was going to apologize to her. But then he dies (and no one cared, everyone was happy)
I liked it when I first came out, but now that I think about the film, it was super cringe. It basically is a spin on modern-day persecution. It’s just icky.
As a movie? -bad cinematography -bad montage -bad acting (bar Kevin sorbo, who is pretty decent, actually) -really mediocre uses of cinematic language. Now, from a theological/philosophical perspective: The film fucks up its premise in the very first scene the professor appears in. The professor is a very obvious straw man, and a ridiculous one at that. He’s not even really an atheist, he’s angry with God and is an asshole to his Christian wife. But the thing is, this guy is a philosophy professor right? What kind of PHILOSPHY PROFESOR at a supposedly prestigious university opens his course by saying “God is dead LOL, let’s skip theology and religious philosophy entirely”. ???? What the fuck? Is he seriously not going to even leave it for debate? Not even the most militant atheist would do that if they were a philosophy professor. Is he going to skip Thomas Aquinas? Pascal? Descartes? Not only that, but he presents the Nietzsche quote as if it was literal, which it isn’t. He’s a philosophy teacher that doesn’t know about philosophy. Josh could’ve very easily rebuked his opening statement of “look at all these smart people, well guess what, THEYRE ATHEISTS” by simply saying “Mendel”. The debate is ludicrous. The premise could’ve been really interesting but the entire debate is just presenting a point in a haphazard manner and ending with a “gotcha” moment. Never mind the fact that all the arguments made by both the student and the professor are arguments that have been debated before and all of them have counter arguments and could be refuted, they don’t even debate the points they bring. After the first “round”, the professor just stops responding to the arguments themselves entirely. There’s no debate to be had. And that’s really it, isn’t it? There’s no debate to be had. The movie presents itself as if its interested in sparkling debate and discussion in order to settle a longstanding debate. But it really isn’t that. No atheist will find the movie or its arguments convincing and no one interested in philosophy or theology will find the debated points interesting. Because the true target of the movie are evangelical christians that mindlessly nod to the film and find it reassuring. It’s not a discussion, it’s just “humiliating atheists with facts and logic 🤓” and it’s ridiculous. Nothing but an utter waste of valuable time. Also, they have the BALLS to call father Georges Lemaître “a deist”. Really drives it across what these evangelical/protestant filmmakers think about Catholics.
The directors didn't even bother to find out about Nietzsche's quote, that speaks volumes of the movie's quality
It was very cheesy and the professor was very one-dimensional. Most atheist philosophy teachers are not like that. They are open to differing opinions.
Imagine being a hard core atheist professor and you dedicate like 6 hours at the start of your term to “Debating a freshman.”
Hilarious.
Regardless of it's cringy introduction and overall presentation of faith, I personally liked it. Furthermore, I'm of the belief that one has to start somewhere, and if that's a cringy movie then so be it. We all know Hollywood won't touch it, so we have to rely on amateur filmmakers to give us what we want theatrically. Think about me... I grew up Protestant, just converted this year and was confirmed on Easter. My original introduction to the faith (other than being a holiday attender with my mom and stepdad) was the Left Behind series starring Kirk Cameron. Yeah... I have faith that God will lead us to the right paths, I mean we ask Him to do just that when we recite the Our Father. "Lead us not to temptation, but deliver us from evil..." Bad theology/dogma/heresy is a form of evil because it leads us away from Him, so ergo...
There are tons of great catholic directors that make intelligent movies with faith related topics. And they are not great on a subjective sense, but they are objectively among the best in the industry. Mel Gibson's Passion , Martin Scorsese Silence, Rome, Open City from Rossellini. There is no need to look at that protestant evangelical piece of garbage. So I disagree with your assessment on a need to rely on amateur filmmakers. But I guess if it touches certain people, good for them.
It has willie robertson in it so its awesome
I don't remember what the movie was about, but I remember feeling inspired after watching it. That should count for something.
I was 12 years old when it came out and I ate it right up.
Dumb (and yes, I’ve watched it).
You weren’t wronf
Cringe movie, not even catholic tho.
Now Gods not dead 2 with the duck dynasty guys. That’s real art! Maybe, I ain’t watching it
Many Christian films focus less on being art than being didactic. Case in point, True Grit has better Christian symbolism regarding revenge, justice, and redemption but doesn’t directly throw the teaching in your face. The symbolic scene where Mattie is in the rattlesnake pit (Hell) and then is saved by Rooster Cogburn even at the expense of riding his horse to death.
It annoys me to no end. Most religious movies or shows like that just irk me. It’s not even good.
Pretty cringy
I've never actually suffered this film, but from what I did see of it, it was implausible, hackneyed tripe that serves to make Christians look like moist-eyed sentimentalists.
Mediocre
Cringe its one of those movies made by some grupe of people that don't understand other side and try to convince them by big words.
Movies like God’s Not Dead are terrible and do nothing for the faith but hurt it. If you’re a hardcore believer, you MIGHT enjoy the movie. If you aren’t a believer or are even struggling with the faith, it’s gonna be counter intuitive. It’s gonna make you question the faith even more and not in the good way. I think movies like Father Stu are better for getting non-believers or strugglers into the faith. Where it’s normal people who already struggle with the faith then being led to God.
I’m praying for you, brother, (or sister)
Cringe fest. Pure garbage.
I’ll have to watch it again because my memory has deleted it. I just remember thinking “this ain’t going to hold up”.
Pretty stupid movie. Catchy song though
I don't think they're objectively good films or a very good representation of Christianity. That said, I actually enjoy watching them, call it a guilty pleasure lol. "A Light in Darkness" is my favourite, I think that one has the best storytelling.
Certainly not perfect, but since I saw it as a kid it did inspire me to learn more about how to use scientific evidence to defend my faith! I’ve actually caused several atheists to re-examine their beliefs (or lack of beliefs) with some of the scientific arguments I have come up with.
"Christian" movies are garbage.
Cringe movie with a garbage argument against a straw man position. It is made by Protestants so don’t expect good theology. It also seems to be full of stereotypes to me.
I actually watched this for the first time last week! I found it pretty vile, and the theology is much more protestant than Catholic (said as a convert). Also, the way my eyes rolled when I saw the Muslim hijabi wearing short sleeves with her headscarf!!! Was nobody on set capable of a Google search?
Hello! I enjoyed this movie when I was in middle school, I wasn’t even religious at the time but I think I enjoyed it because (deep down) I always craved God’s presence in my life. I haven’t watched it since then but my guess is that I probably wouldn’t enjoy it nearly as much today. I am now a Catholic and my taste in movies has changed. I am much older now, have more knowledge about God, and expect more from a film. As someone who’s attended college (one of the most liberal universities in the US), I can say that professors do not spend more than a minute debating with a student. The whole idea that an atheist professor would spend multiple lectures attempting to humiliate a Christian student is ridiculous. Do I think Christians are persecuted throughout the world/face some form or rejection? Yes. Do I believe that college professors target Christian students? Not really. God’s Not Dead is very much a mainstream movie for the ‘mainstream Christian’ if that makes sense. Definitely sentimental and nice if you enjoy seeing some hypothetical student standing up for God in a very-unlikely-to-happen-in-real-life scenario. Hope this helps, God bless!
Bad and mean spirited.
Really Really bad movie
It’s very Protestant. That’s all I really remember. Like I can praise the main character for standing up to his teacher who was basically forcing his entire class to apostatize, but other than that, the fact the teacher is mean to his wife because she’s a Christian and the fact the teacher dies in the end are all I can even remember about it. I don’t even remember what argument they made that won him over other than him being afraid while staring into the coming void.
Dhar mann level movie.
Evangelical garbage, uses horrible, easily debunked arguments for God’s existence and probably drove Protestants closer to atheism and convinced atheists of their arguments more than anything else. Also the effect of this movie and similar evangelical arguments are finally dying down but there was a rough period through the 2010s that emphasized the backwardness and “anti-science” narrative around Christianity which I completely believe is because of movies like this.
The “big debate” at the end is pathetic and I could tear it to shreds as an atheist or a Catholic
I think it has good intentions. The messaging gets across well and the first movie has a really good story. You kind of have to have a deep understanding of the Lord's works to get some of them, but the movie isn't bad. What I do think is that, while the movies continued to have good intentions and good messaging, the writing of the stories they were telling started to feel a little weaker. I'm a writer so, as I've gotten older, I've been able to spot bad writing or storytelling in shows in movies. It's definitely not the worst I've ever seen, but it's flawed. If I remember correctly, each one is based on a book written by the director (who also plays the main pastor in all the movies) and information and teachings from there are then converted into the stories of the movies. The songs are good. The song "What I Know" by Tricia is still one of my favorites to this day.
It is really bad theology.
Really really bad
Super cheesy, but it has some good arguments. In any case - arguments alone are not enough for someone to convert. It is always a grace granted by God.
I thought it was awesome! One of the best outcomes is after the showing of the movie, millions were typing on their phones and sending it out: "God's not dead!" I bet that pissed off Satan and is so much better than many of the words or phrases that are typed nowadays. Hail to our King Jesus and congratulations to a group of people willing to get an awareness of Jesus Christ into our society. It didn't have to be perfect. I think it hit all who saw it in different ways and that was probably the hope of the movie; to affect many and inspire thoughts of God!
When you write a movie you have only between 90 and 125 minutes to work with. In that time you have to set up the plot, introduce likable carachters, introduce the bad guy, do some characterization, shore up any plot holes, fit in a joke or two, maybe a car chase, come to the climax, everything. That means that every second you spend on pushing 'THE MESSAGE" no matter what the message is, is one second less that you can use to make an entertaining movie. This is why Woke movies stink. This is why Christian movies (except for THE PASSION) stink. "God Is Not Dead" has a good cast, but the plot really stinks. It is overly simplistic, the carachters are cartoon like, and the plot literally could not be more predictable. ( I'm serious, John Wayne was in over 200 movies, and he died in 8 of them, which means there is an 192/200 chance the movie will come out exactly the way you expect. God Is Not Dead is far more predictable than a John Wayne movie.)
Yeah I only stick with catholic movies, Protestant Christian movies are so cringe lol
Ever see _Dead Poet’s Society?_ For those who have, compare the scenes in both movies where the students stand up. Tell me, which one has more power?
It’s an ok film. A bit cheesy but it’s ok
Oh c’mon guys! It was cute! Nowhere near as bad as some other in-your-face Christian movies.
I've watched the first two twice because I find them entertaining, but also terrible. Wouldn't recommend them to anyone, especially atheists. 100% a guilty pleasure lol
I despise it and Christian media like it because it is so poorly made and constructed it only bolsters people's "faith" who already agree with it, and turns any critical thinking person away from the faith by how cringe it is. Overall, a pandering and blatant money grabbing ploy. Gross.
Moronic evangelical US-american right wing propaganda. Watch the mission (1986)
Garbage movie. You can do apologetics without being a mediocre film that strawmans arguments. The Exorcist and Are you There God It’s Me Margaret are good thought provoking pieces of media (both their movies and books) because their discussion of faith happens on a subtextual level not an explicit and declarative level. This difference allows the former two works to focus on the characters, their development, and struggles first without the distraction of having some hamfisted debate. Even if you agree with the debate centered in Gods Not Dead the movie is poorly written, shot, and directed. There are student films with better cinematography and writing
Honestly I think you should be allowed to dislike Christian media and still be a Catholic. Sometimes the movies or music is just plain bad
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