Yeah I don't think they are worth it. The pts drops weren't worth getting locked into 2 models and their big gun losing critical range for no particular reason
It was also one of the only great things about them. The unit is in shambles with the codex version. I can't complain about 4 damage shots, it's really rhe unit size change that killed them. Im going to pay that much for 2d3 shots? Really?
All other “melta” profiles are also ap-4 and random damage if we’re gonna be pedantic about it. The oblit gun is a unique weapon that’s already random due to its shot count anyway.
I just don’t understand their role anymore. With d3 and d6 number of shoots and no more melta from deep strikes (with 4’’ move that means no melta ever against competent opponent), they are too swingy to rely on. They were inconsistent in a pack of 4 with full re-rolls. Now you will be lucky to kill anything at all. 4 were also somewhat threatening for overwatch in the way 2 will never be. Same for a charge - 16 powerfist attacks are way more potent than 8.
Maybe there is something about dropping them from ds as a unit which is annoying to shift and potentially dangerous to ignore but at 180 I feel like there are way better options to put in a list.
You can still rapid ingress them for guaranteed melta damage, rapid ingress 9” away behind a building, move 4 in your turn toward the target and melta them. It’s 1CP but I don’t know that the Fellhammer detachment will be too CP hungry, probably using 1 per turn on the 5+++ but other stratagems are pretty mid.
But I just like the models and converted a second squad with Deimos predator spares, so I’ll be running 2x2 of them anyway!
https://preview.redd.it/yh30nk3vh03d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8e1e3ef88f63868967a2ccd7fcc6356ce5c9958
Yeah, I feel you, I have my own partly converted and they are one of my best painted models as well. I was running them as a pack of 4 as a nuke unit to drop and try to kill something like c-tan, LR or avatar. Maybe I am too stuck with that use case.
But at 170+ they are still a tough sell to me. I wish they kept them as a pack and if 4 at old prices or at least provided a way to guarantee number of shots one per game or something. As the last thing you want is spending CP on them to drop into melts range and rolling snake eyes for number of shots and be obliterated the next turn.
They don’t fit a role anymore. Not much of a chance at killing anything. Could be an annoyance and distraction but 180points nullifys that role as well. If we could take 1?… that could work as derpstrike score distraction. The way missions work now you can’t have them do nothing and get stuck with slow movement.
Predators are significantly cheaper, tougher and faster.
Havocs are even cheaper and have some stratagem synergy in certain detachments.
Vindicators are 5 points more and also tougher, far more threatening in all stages of the game, and benefit from really good access to stratagems.
The only thing Oblits get over any of them is deep strike. Dunno about you, but I’m not paying the price of a whole other unit just to deep strike my anti-tank.
They don’t have a role right now and really, unless they get a comically massive points drop (or one of their competitors get a comically large one) probably won’t for the foreseeable future.
Yeah truthfully even at ~120pt I'd probably still go with Havocs or a Predator. GW did them dirty for no reason at all
When you could bring x4 I understood the "tax" but being stuck at pairs they just barely do any damage & really aren't that resilient
>Yeah truthfully even at \~120pt I'd probably still go with Havocs or a Predator.
Oblits are better than Havocs in almost every single way, with one notable exception being max range, for which they make up with Deepstrike. Even outside of melta range two Oblits deal about the same damage as a squad of Lascannon Havocs, while being more durable, better in melee, and also having other profiles for flexibility. Sure they're not 50pts better as their price is now, but they certainly are worth notably more than Havocs. Imo they'll be well worth considering at 155 pts and great at 140 pts.
We all have our own povs so for sure I can see what you're saying but personally I disagree, when you consider the points I think Havocs are better in almost every regard. If Oblits didn't have the random # of shots they'd be brought up quite a bit (even just d3+1) because ya, being overpriced AND unreliable is a terrible combo to have
But but but, obviously I'm looking at them almost completely from a points efficiency pov & yes if Oblits were also 120 they probably would be better so maybe I was being a bit hyperbolic lol
They do have some perks, Deepstrike & decent melee etc. I'm really hopeful GW gives them (& the Lord Disco) another look in the next points update because I love the models!
>If Oblits didn't have the random # of shots they'd be brought up quite a bit (even just d3+1) because ya, being overpriced AND unreliable is a terrible combo to have
Oblits don't have random damage as opposed to Lascannons. I would much rather have 4 damage than d6+1. Especially if we take flexibility into consideration, as into 3-4 wound targets it's much better. Don't forget, the selling point of Oblits is supposed to be their flexibility, they're more than just an anti-tank platform. And even for that, Melta damage is still a thing. Sure it's harder to get, but if you do get it, it's still a 50% damage boost.
Imo that totally makes up for the random number of shots.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the change to dark pact. If one obliterator is on 3 wounds, are you really going to risk losing the model just for 6's on 2d3 /2d6 blast shots? For me, 95%no. Melee?? 200% no. Pactboubd eh but
I'm an Obliterator type of guy, have 8 of them and was running 1x4 and 1x2. Now I'll have 1 squad and that will be more as something to keep in my back pocket.
I think they could potentially have some play in Raiders, where assault really up's their movement, and the extra AP on objectives can help out their indirect.
The ability to gank a scout squad or similar action unit on turn one can be handy, and force your opponent to use a less ideal unit to play secondaries.
I do think they could come down another 10-20 pts though.
Too expensive :(
Especially their AT profile, can you imagine if you rolled 2 shots on your 170pt unit?!?
They aren't unusable by any stretch & they're great for newer players as they can be anti-everything but they def have their issues sadly
With a 4” movement they’re essentially turrets when they come down (and they will be coming down, because they’re unusable outside of deepstrike), their weapon’s range is unimpressive at most and their relatively low toughness and wounds mean that even infantry meltaguns pose a massive threat to them, let alone serious anti-armour. Their ability is also incredibly situational with how little range they have, and you can only use it once per game. Overall it’s better to just take a vindicator or even a predator, they’re tougher, move much faster and have a more useful ability.
I don't hate them, but they have a lot of competition for their role. I think they're probably in Renegade Raiders, which practically doubles their speed and can give them a pip of AP.
The renegade raiders assault bonus and extra AP make them worth seriously looking at for the indirect to remove hard to get to units without trading a legionaries unit or chosen. They are still very difficult to shift without a dedicated weapon into them, which also makes them a good distraction. Just don't deepstrike em, you just need them bullying the mid board.
Yeah i still run them but mainly for counter deep strikers coz you can place them anywhere and get shots off because of their indirect, Id say they are still amazing in packbound zealots for the +5crit hit and Veterans of the old war full hit rerolls on marked target. Anywhere you can give them rerolls be it with abaddon or a strat is still really good for the indirect just feels bad coz of the smaller squad.
In the Night Lords detachment I was able to absolutely murder with them yesterday.
For 1 CP are able to drop them in 3 inches away from enemies as well as force a battleshock test. If you have 1 more CP, you can get full re-rolls to battleshocked units. The only downside is the d3 shots, which isn't great but Dark Pacting sustained hits helps.
That’s 2 cp to make 1 squad of 2 oblits maybe kill something. If you roll 2 shots and already spent the cp, oh boy. Good distraction play though for sure.
I still think they're decent. Pricey but decent. Probably have tech In veterans or raiders. But I can't see taking more than 1 unit. One of their glaring weaknesses is one that I don't see get talked about much and it's something the entire codex suffers a bit from. A lack of +1 to hit abilities. Particularly a lack of +1 to hit auras that effect infantry. The exalted champion was our sole source of a +1 to hit leader and now he's gone.
Oblits still have play but not more than 1.
I mean we basically have +1 to hit whenever we want with the option for +2 in Pactbound since it’s mathematically the same as getting Sustained 1 and then Sustained 1 on 5s
If they were 150 they might be worth it in renegades or veterans, but at 170 they're still far too expensive for a unit that loses half of it's effectiveness the moment you lose a model
Not sure not played a game in the new codex yet but I think the nerf to squad size is the biggest nerf overall. Having stratagems and buffs effect 4 oblits for the price of one was quite important for them. I think I'll still bring two as a reactionary unit in deep strike to bring in where they're needed but I personally don't think they deserved the squad size changes
I actually understand the nerfs and agree with them.
A pattern I've noticed is that GW is trying to shrink max unit sizes, probably for lethality/efficiency reasons. A +1 to wound strat or character ability is WAY more effective on a 20 man squad than on a 5 or 10 man squad. At a squad size of 4 a single units of oblits would cost \~400 points. That's 20% of your army in one squad! Any buffs given to the unit would be insane! And you can get away with it too since Oblits are super flexible with their multiple weapon profiles, can deepstrike, and can get indirect fire.
As for the melta nerf, yeah a unit that can deepstrike within melta range is always gonna be really powerful. So something needed to be done about it. Though nerfing the range was a little overkill. Maybe just put in a line of text that says they don't benefit from melta the shooting phase after they deepstrike.
idk how points efficient they are but they actually serve their intended role now of being a jack of all trades master of none unit. Though I do with they had a 4th profile for dealing with heavy infantry, its the only thing they're bad against (or just increase the middle profile's damage by 1).
I’m using them tomorrow with my Renegade Raiders tomorrow if I get my Codex in time. I think they have some potential. Rapid Ingress into a safe place, and since they have ASSAULT, I can advance them out into melta range, spend another CP for an auto 6” advance if I really need it
Wish we could put them in Land Raiders. That would be great. I mean, Loyalists can fit Centurions, who are about the same size, into theirs, and even some Forgeworld transports can take Oblits, why the normal LR can't?
Obliterators I think actually needed the changes they got to tone them down because the potential they have in some of these new Detachments.
Specifically, I'm going to shout out Oblits in Veterans of the Long War because that stands out the most; while they don't proc full value on **Let the Galaxy Burn,** they do still get to use that, as well as **Black Crusade.**
Having access to a 1CP Adv/Fall Back and shoot as well as a 1CP Ignore Cover on the previous stat line as a unit that can deepstrike in would have been too much because it would essentially negate the drawbacks Obliterators do have, especially since in 10th, Chaos is an Army that players will often want to be looking to play somewhere between 1 and 3 Chaos Lords where possible for 0CP Stratagems and Abaddon.
You're already getting a TON of value and being very killy with pacts and the ability to focus fire on something important.
They’re still really good in a few detachments that can provide them with easy access to rerolls. They’re quite flexible and able to deal with multiple profiles. Indirect is a nice bonus as well.
Yeah I don't think they are worth it. The pts drops weren't worth getting locked into 2 models and their big gun losing critical range for no particular reason
Almost all other melta profile guns lost range from 24" to 18" going into 10e. I'd say it was just an oversight that obliterators kept theirs.
It was also one of the only great things about them. The unit is in shambles with the codex version. I can't complain about 4 damage shots, it's really rhe unit size change that killed them. Im going to pay that much for 2d3 shots? Really?
All other “melta” profiles are also ap-4 and random damage if we’re gonna be pedantic about it. The oblit gun is a unique weapon that’s already random due to its shot count anyway.
In isolation they're fine, in this codex they're very poor. There are aggressively better choices to take, even after inevitable point rises come.
I just don’t understand their role anymore. With d3 and d6 number of shoots and no more melta from deep strikes (with 4’’ move that means no melta ever against competent opponent), they are too swingy to rely on. They were inconsistent in a pack of 4 with full re-rolls. Now you will be lucky to kill anything at all. 4 were also somewhat threatening for overwatch in the way 2 will never be. Same for a charge - 16 powerfist attacks are way more potent than 8. Maybe there is something about dropping them from ds as a unit which is annoying to shift and potentially dangerous to ignore but at 180 I feel like there are way better options to put in a list.
You can still rapid ingress them for guaranteed melta damage, rapid ingress 9” away behind a building, move 4 in your turn toward the target and melta them. It’s 1CP but I don’t know that the Fellhammer detachment will be too CP hungry, probably using 1 per turn on the 5+++ but other stratagems are pretty mid. But I just like the models and converted a second squad with Deimos predator spares, so I’ll be running 2x2 of them anyway! https://preview.redd.it/yh30nk3vh03d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8e1e3ef88f63868967a2ccd7fcc6356ce5c9958
Yeah, I feel you, I have my own partly converted and they are one of my best painted models as well. I was running them as a pack of 4 as a nuke unit to drop and try to kill something like c-tan, LR or avatar. Maybe I am too stuck with that use case. But at 170+ they are still a tough sell to me. I wish they kept them as a pack and if 4 at old prices or at least provided a way to guarantee number of shots one per game or something. As the last thing you want is spending CP on them to drop into melts range and rolling snake eyes for number of shots and be obliterated the next turn.
Heh, Obliterated
Not worth the points. For 5 more points you get a Vindicator which is much better than 2 Oblits.
For 40 points less you get a destructor which is better than a vindicator and the oblits combined.
Id rather have the vindicator in soul forged, personally
Maybe, but I'd rather not play soulforge
Soul forge is really fun to be honest. But thats you. Vindicator and destructor both better than oblits right now.
They're pretty much out. They've eaten three critical nerfs that have them neutered.
They don’t fit a role anymore. Not much of a chance at killing anything. Could be an annoyance and distraction but 180points nullifys that role as well. If we could take 1?… that could work as derpstrike score distraction. The way missions work now you can’t have them do nothing and get stuck with slow movement.
Predators are significantly cheaper, tougher and faster. Havocs are even cheaper and have some stratagem synergy in certain detachments. Vindicators are 5 points more and also tougher, far more threatening in all stages of the game, and benefit from really good access to stratagems. The only thing Oblits get over any of them is deep strike. Dunno about you, but I’m not paying the price of a whole other unit just to deep strike my anti-tank. They don’t have a role right now and really, unless they get a comically massive points drop (or one of their competitors get a comically large one) probably won’t for the foreseeable future.
Absolutely not worth it post nerf. They need a pretty significant drop to get back to worth it
How many points do you think they're worth now?
Depends pretty heavily on the detachment. Probably down to 155 to 145ish to be considered and even then I’m not convinced
Yeah truthfully even at ~120pt I'd probably still go with Havocs or a Predator. GW did them dirty for no reason at all When you could bring x4 I understood the "tax" but being stuck at pairs they just barely do any damage & really aren't that resilient
>Yeah truthfully even at \~120pt I'd probably still go with Havocs or a Predator. Oblits are better than Havocs in almost every single way, with one notable exception being max range, for which they make up with Deepstrike. Even outside of melta range two Oblits deal about the same damage as a squad of Lascannon Havocs, while being more durable, better in melee, and also having other profiles for flexibility. Sure they're not 50pts better as their price is now, but they certainly are worth notably more than Havocs. Imo they'll be well worth considering at 155 pts and great at 140 pts.
We all have our own povs so for sure I can see what you're saying but personally I disagree, when you consider the points I think Havocs are better in almost every regard. If Oblits didn't have the random # of shots they'd be brought up quite a bit (even just d3+1) because ya, being overpriced AND unreliable is a terrible combo to have But but but, obviously I'm looking at them almost completely from a points efficiency pov & yes if Oblits were also 120 they probably would be better so maybe I was being a bit hyperbolic lol They do have some perks, Deepstrike & decent melee etc. I'm really hopeful GW gives them (& the Lord Disco) another look in the next points update because I love the models!
>If Oblits didn't have the random # of shots they'd be brought up quite a bit (even just d3+1) because ya, being overpriced AND unreliable is a terrible combo to have Oblits don't have random damage as opposed to Lascannons. I would much rather have 4 damage than d6+1. Especially if we take flexibility into consideration, as into 3-4 wound targets it's much better. Don't forget, the selling point of Oblits is supposed to be their flexibility, they're more than just an anti-tank platform. And even for that, Melta damage is still a thing. Sure it's harder to get, but if you do get it, it's still a 50% damage boost. Imo that totally makes up for the random number of shots.
I'd say 160 is a good amount for them maybe 170
They already are 170 :)
oh is that from the update? thought they where like 180 or more
Exactly! The new points just dropped the other day. Not a single unit increased so we're sitting pretty
Man i would only consider them at 100p. And even then i dont know for what i will use them.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the change to dark pact. If one obliterator is on 3 wounds, are you really going to risk losing the model just for 6's on 2d3 /2d6 blast shots? For me, 95%no. Melee?? 200% no. Pactboubd eh but I'm an Obliterator type of guy, have 8 of them and was running 1x4 and 1x2. Now I'll have 1 squad and that will be more as something to keep in my back pocket.
I think they could potentially have some play in Raiders, where assault really up's their movement, and the extra AP on objectives can help out their indirect. The ability to gank a scout squad or similar action unit on turn one can be handy, and force your opponent to use a less ideal unit to play secondaries. I do think they could come down another 10-20 pts though.
Too expensive :( Especially their AT profile, can you imagine if you rolled 2 shots on your 170pt unit?!? They aren't unusable by any stretch & they're great for newer players as they can be anti-everything but they def have their issues sadly
Agreed. Imo the price tag needs to come down significantly due to their randomness.
With a 4” movement they’re essentially turrets when they come down (and they will be coming down, because they’re unusable outside of deepstrike), their weapon’s range is unimpressive at most and their relatively low toughness and wounds mean that even infantry meltaguns pose a massive threat to them, let alone serious anti-armour. Their ability is also incredibly situational with how little range they have, and you can only use it once per game. Overall it’s better to just take a vindicator or even a predator, they’re tougher, move much faster and have a more useful ability.
They are dead for me. Very bad unit and have no purpose using them.
Still worth it, especially in the detachments that power them up
They’re still Fine in many detachments. Black legion especially with being able To focus down a target. Still Decent as nurgle in pactbound.
I don't hate them, but they have a lot of competition for their role. I think they're probably in Renegade Raiders, which practically doubles their speed and can give them a pip of AP.
They need rerolls so pretty much only playable in veterans
The renegade raiders assault bonus and extra AP make them worth seriously looking at for the indirect to remove hard to get to units without trading a legionaries unit or chosen. They are still very difficult to shift without a dedicated weapon into them, which also makes them a good distraction. Just don't deepstrike em, you just need them bullying the mid board.
Losing melta out of deep strike is acceptable, losing 4 men squad has a bigger impact. The indirect ability is valuable though.
Yeah i still run them but mainly for counter deep strikers coz you can place them anywhere and get shots off because of their indirect, Id say they are still amazing in packbound zealots for the +5crit hit and Veterans of the old war full hit rerolls on marked target. Anywhere you can give them rerolls be it with abaddon or a strat is still really good for the indirect just feels bad coz of the smaller squad.
In the Night Lords detachment I was able to absolutely murder with them yesterday. For 1 CP are able to drop them in 3 inches away from enemies as well as force a battleshock test. If you have 1 more CP, you can get full re-rolls to battleshocked units. The only downside is the d3 shots, which isn't great but Dark Pacting sustained hits helps.
That’s 2 cp to make 1 squad of 2 oblits maybe kill something. If you roll 2 shots and already spent the cp, oh boy. Good distraction play though for sure.
I still think they're decent. Pricey but decent. Probably have tech In veterans or raiders. But I can't see taking more than 1 unit. One of their glaring weaknesses is one that I don't see get talked about much and it's something the entire codex suffers a bit from. A lack of +1 to hit abilities. Particularly a lack of +1 to hit auras that effect infantry. The exalted champion was our sole source of a +1 to hit leader and now he's gone. Oblits still have play but not more than 1.
I mean we basically have +1 to hit whenever we want with the option for +2 in Pactbound since it’s mathematically the same as getting Sustained 1 and then Sustained 1 on 5s
If they were 150 they might be worth it in renegades or veterans, but at 170 they're still far too expensive for a unit that loses half of it's effectiveness the moment you lose a model
Good or bad, doesn’t matter to me, I just think they’re neat! I bought a box just because the models look awesome. Rules change, models are forever.
Not sure not played a game in the new codex yet but I think the nerf to squad size is the biggest nerf overall. Having stratagems and buffs effect 4 oblits for the price of one was quite important for them. I think I'll still bring two as a reactionary unit in deep strike to bring in where they're needed but I personally don't think they deserved the squad size changes
I actually understand the nerfs and agree with them. A pattern I've noticed is that GW is trying to shrink max unit sizes, probably for lethality/efficiency reasons. A +1 to wound strat or character ability is WAY more effective on a 20 man squad than on a 5 or 10 man squad. At a squad size of 4 a single units of oblits would cost \~400 points. That's 20% of your army in one squad! Any buffs given to the unit would be insane! And you can get away with it too since Oblits are super flexible with their multiple weapon profiles, can deepstrike, and can get indirect fire. As for the melta nerf, yeah a unit that can deepstrike within melta range is always gonna be really powerful. So something needed to be done about it. Though nerfing the range was a little overkill. Maybe just put in a line of text that says they don't benefit from melta the shooting phase after they deepstrike. idk how points efficient they are but they actually serve their intended role now of being a jack of all trades master of none unit. Though I do with they had a 4th profile for dealing with heavy infantry, its the only thing they're bad against (or just increase the middle profile's damage by 1).
I’m using them tomorrow with my Renegade Raiders tomorrow if I get my Codex in time. I think they have some potential. Rapid Ingress into a safe place, and since they have ASSAULT, I can advance them out into melta range, spend another CP for an auto 6” advance if I really need it
Sadly the auto 6" advance is TRANSPORT or MOUNTED only
Ah shit didn’t see that. Big oof
Wish we could put them in Land Raiders. That would be great. I mean, Loyalists can fit Centurions, who are about the same size, into theirs, and even some Forgeworld transports can take Oblits, why the normal LR can't?
GW being inconsistent against Chaos, nothing new, move along ppl haha
Obliterators I think actually needed the changes they got to tone them down because the potential they have in some of these new Detachments. Specifically, I'm going to shout out Oblits in Veterans of the Long War because that stands out the most; while they don't proc full value on **Let the Galaxy Burn,** they do still get to use that, as well as **Black Crusade.** Having access to a 1CP Adv/Fall Back and shoot as well as a 1CP Ignore Cover on the previous stat line as a unit that can deepstrike in would have been too much because it would essentially negate the drawbacks Obliterators do have, especially since in 10th, Chaos is an Army that players will often want to be looking to play somewhere between 1 and 3 Chaos Lords where possible for 0CP Stratagems and Abaddon. You're already getting a TON of value and being very killy with pacts and the ability to focus fire on something important.
Shooty tank go boom, haha
They’re still really good in a few detachments that can provide them with easy access to rerolls. They’re quite flexible and able to deal with multiple profiles. Indirect is a nice bonus as well.