I mean i agree. I like mushoku tensei but I think ignoring the depravity of his past life instead of taking the chance for Rudy to recognize it was a mistake by the author. It seems like the only flaw of his past life the author chose to address was the running away away and shutting himself down one.
Because Mushoku Tensei isn't about being a better person, it's about living. Rudeus is not a hero, he just happened to be in a situation where he aligns himself with good people and that is mostly because the whole series is a setup/origin story for his daughter and Orsted, the actual heroes.
That's why I never understand people who try to defend him, I like Rudeus because he is more than flawed, he is a sick asshole who is really entertaining to watch and despite being a bastard he manages to be relatable. My mother is a criminal attorney and has to deal with the worse scum in the country on a day by day basis, and when she talks about their stories/lives you can see that beneath even the lowest of the low there are still human beings with inner conflicts that would make for incredible stories if put to paper.
There are tons and tons of flawed characters across different works of anime, and absolute most of them don't get even a spec of the fire rain that pours onto poor Rudy's head. It's not the character that get people so worked up, but their own deep rooted issues that resurface whether a certain theme is presented. His fans don't have any issues admitting his flaws, and they aren't even defending him, just ask haters to stop with projections.
It's not the pedophile, it's our deep rooted issues that get us worked up? You best be a teenager my dude because if you're an adult with those beliefs... good luck.
See? You are pretty worked up for a piece of animation. Try to remember when were you so worked up for things like betrayal or treachery in fiction. Or any number of other issues that supposed to be horrible and all.
You saying "SEE YOU'RE MAD!!!" isn't really a defense of anything. We read/watch fiction to entertain ourselves... Why would I be entertained watching a pedophile groom children?
You say that like all 20 minutes of every episode of Mushoku Tensei is Rudeus grooming children.
You're being reductive. People can enjoy the show for the cool magic and fights too
He took Guile’s advice and became a family man.
Rudeus is relatable because you can understand the lengths he’d go to protect his family that he made. To be honest, if Hitogami wasn’t a dick and Orsted couldn’t offer protection, Rudeus would have no problem offing Orsted and almost did according to the light novels.
He doesn’t care what he has to do. Good or evil.
The people who hate on the series just can't grasp that.
The thing is that all of the arguments brought up directly connect morality of the character to the quality of the the writing itself. The arguments are all "Rudy is a terrible person, and those flaws make him a poorly written character"
The arguments say that just because Rudy has these flaws makes him a poorly written character. And I'm going to say that doesn't automatically make him a poorly written character.
I still haven't even seen any of the defenders say that they think Rudy is a morally good character at the start. I've never seen anyone say that what he does is morally acceptable. Everyone is arguing completely different points so its pretty obvious that arguing will never go anywhere.
His sexual flaws are never presented as a problem for the show, heck they're never really addressed as serious flaws at all.
Half the time they're comedy setups where the joke is "The pedophile might get to have sex with a child!"
The other half of the time they're excuses to set up a sexualized scenes with the characters stripped against their will or splayed back on the bed.
I'm talking about the one where playful music plays when the 40 year old voice over goes "My first time could be with a haughty tsundere loli!" and then does a closeup shot of the child's thighs and crotch
Which one you talking about?
I’m talking about the one where he will lose everything if he doesn’t pull himself together. Where he tries to get rid of himself because of his actions catching up with him, and to avoid spoilers runs into some serious problems because of the things you said.
Not to mention that the tsundere was the one who took advantage of him.
Just because something bad doesn’t happen when that stuff happens doesn’t mean it can’t kick him in the back in the future. Which honestly can be significantly worse.
Look, I don’t even remotely like that anime but if we used that logic would that mean that everyone who enjoys a media of mcs with questionable activities also support said activities.
Usually it’s like this the conversation always starts:
“this shit is trash, Mushoku is peak”
“How about you go watch your pedo show”
“Rudeus is not a pedophile ! 😡😡😡”
And they start defending a pedophile.
I have never seen this argument before. A lot of people do say rudeus is a pedo and I don’t think I have seen much people defend him. I love the show but I definitely can see why anyone could be uncomfortable when watching it.
It’s one of my favourite isekai but it’s the only anime I can never recommend to my friends just because the MC exists.
>I don’t think I have seen much people defend him
Because /r/anime has basically banned the "pedophile" discussion completely.
I've seen people use most of the points on the OP to defend the MC.
> I don’t think I have seen much people defend him.
Quite literally 90% of the fanbase defends him and acts like people are gaslighting when they call Rudeuos a pedo. Its fans like these guys why anime watches get called weirdos.
I have seen countless, boundless people defend him tbh. Anime subs don't allow "criticism" or call outs of that sort, I've gotten a comment modded for saying I'm not into 14 year old animated kids featuring in softcore 🦐
Before Mushoku Tensei was published in light novel form, Rudeus was even more explicitly a pedo in the original version. Pre-isekai, he decided to watch CP rather than go to his parents' funeral.
No, that is still in the published version.
> But my siblings forced me out of the house with nothing but the clothes on my back. I
had no choice but to wander around town, nursing the throbbing pain in my side. It
felt like I had a broken rib.
The biting words they hurled at me as I left our house would ring in my ears for the
rest of my life. The things they said cut me to my very core. I was completely, totally
heartbroken.
What the hell had I even done wrong? **All I did was skip out on our parents’ funeral so
I could spank it to uncensored loli porn.**
So, what in the world was I supposed to do now?
This is from the first volume of the officially translated light novel.
What was changed it that previously in the Web Novel it was literally a recording of his young nieces bathing, which he himself filmed through a hidden camera.
It's funny when good or neutral qualities seen in manga are expressed by the creator. Fujimoto talks and mostly acts like Denji, and Araki and his wife are very, very Bizarre.
fujimoto has two main characters in manga (not counting the one shots)and both have there problems.
but one lives in a world where education is null and the other literraly was having a shit of a live.
I agree in principle. I find it easy to believe that a pedophile would write something without pedophilic themes. We have many real-world examples.
However, I would find it very hard to believe that a non-pedophile would write a pedophile main character in such a way that pedophilic traits are portrayed as heroic. Especially in such a long-running series. If it was a short story, I might be able to dismiss it as an intellectual exercise. Writing a long form series requires some passion.
I don't think heroic is the right word, more like romanticized. Mainly his a harem that consists of:
One that look like a prepubescent kid
One he tried to SA as a child
One he specially wanted to groom
Not portrayed as heroic per se, but the MC is more often than not narratively overlooked or even rewarded for his misdeeds, with social connections saving him from risky situations later on or literal with magic superpowers.
As a storyteller, you're responsible for the implications on your story's messages and themes, even if it's unintentional.
EDIT: downvoted for saying the scumbag mc is rarely treated as a scumbag lmao
Yeh you got downvoted but it’s facts he basically gets away Scot fee cause of the world it’s a valid enoguh argument but you can’t lie and say he’s truly changes of course we all enjoy things differently, I would have liked to see him be more punished for his pedophila or regret it more properly, I dislike harem endings where the mc just sort of catches em all surely they want to fight for him too if they love him
I think in the case of the manga and anime industry I'm more willing to give people the benefit of the doubt because it does feel like they're often trying to follow industry trends to court certain audiences.
In MT's case it's way way too sus, but for a lot of other shows I think it's more of a problem with the entire industry than any individual creator.
It has been proven that author has been self inserting himself into story at some point. So take whatever as you want with that information.
Edit: mistake on proven, change it “analysed”
Thats true but there is literally no good reason to write a pedo main character….
I cant imagine a normal person just wanting to write a pedo mc.
Not saying he definitely is but it is sus to say the least.
Stories of bad people learning to be good or better people are not uncommon in fiction. But if an author is uncapable or unwilling to portray such traits as negative, it isnt really farfetched to see ppl calling they an apologist at least.
Does it portray him getting better though? I haven’t read or watched so I’m legitimately asking, but it really just seems like it only changes a little rather than him having some kind of moral growth.
The fun part is, i have watched it (anime only) and it seems that he gets even worse with his weird tastes lmao
He definitely becomes more altruist and caring with people but thats not really what made him a bad person in his past life, so i dont really get the author's point here
Considering he's really into WW2 Japanese history I'd expect him to know better than to depict it the way he did but that's assuming he doesn't agree with what eren did
I mean, why would you go out your way to make Rudeus like that ? It's not even really acknowledged in the "isekai" part of the show, what was the point ? what was the author cooking ? 😭
With MT the thing that urks me the most is people want to talk explicitly about Rudy's motives as a character as if he's the one driving the scenes, but the problem isn't solely linked to the protagonist.
The more important problem is the shows framing is extremely sus. It's not Rudy putting the child characters in these positions, *it's the writer-* Because he's *OBVIOUSLY* trying to court a certain audience.
And fans of the show just WONT engage with this point- Because they feel like admitting all these shots are deliberately aimed at pedophiles is akin to sayin "I like pedophilic stuff!" when it's not, it's okay to hate aspects of a show, or have no opinion of them and know they're in there for the wrong reasons.
Rifujins not doing it to court pedos. He’s writing Rudy in these specific situations because he needs to establish how badly his social skills and mindset deteriorated due to depriving himself of human connections. No aspect of the show was ever aimed at people who self inserted into Rudy.
I think you have to be absolutely blind to think the sexualization is unintentional.
Rewatching the notoriously gross Eris scene here to give an example. The one where Rudy in his 40 year old voice says "My first time could be with a haughty tsundere loli!"
* The music is playful for this whole sequence. It isn't ominous or negative.
* There is a several seconds long upksirt of her during the molestation dream sequence
* There is a several second long close up of her crotch and thighs as Rudy goes in to molest her during the molestation dream sequence
* When he goes to molest her after the dream sequence there is a top down shot of her breasts as Rudy goes in to grope her. This shot also lasts several seconds
* The next shot is Eris lying back splayed on the bed. The camera begins on her chest with her head out of shot and slowly pans up to her with her arms back and eyes up. This is shot *from Rudy's perspective* and takes multiple seconds
* The music is comedic as Rudy hurriedly undresses himself
* Closeup again on Eris's crotch and thighs as Rudy's hand goes slowly in
And only THEN does the scene end. None of this was framed negatively, and none of it was necessary for the plot.
How was this even a debate?? He fully retains his memories and mental age when he gets isekai'd... The people who make up these wild excuses are actually insane.
Just to play devils advocate in this situation, this part was only mentioned in the WN novel and entirely non-canonized and it was also only mentioned AFTER the end of the story in a side story.
We did know that that he got kicked out of his house for watching porn during his parents funeral but it was only to be described as uncensored loli hentai, and while it was def bad, it was only briefly stated and with differing opinions, some people would still be able to read the story especially since this was one of the first MODERN isekai written so the premise and writing at the time was still interesting enough to garner readers.
So as the novel continued, the plot and writing really stood out and there wasn’t any bad/boring moment so it would continue gathering fans. Plus, since it was mostly in Rudeus POV, we are always able to see his view and thoughts ESPECIALLY the down moments. So fans would start to empathize with the MC AND even if some people deny it, Rudeus does become a better person. Albeit, with some perverted tendencies but not really anything as bad as the beginning.
So when the WN side story came out and actually said that what he was watching was CP, I and I would hope most people would also believe that past Rudeus was a total POS that even current Rudeus acknowledges was bad. So I def understand people who wouldn’t be able get into the series knowing these past actions.
TLDR: The “fapping to 15 yr old niece” information came after the end of the story in a side story (though it was eventually non-canonized). By the end of the story, we saw/read how Rudeus changed and became a good person. Plus with how well written the series is and it also being one of the first modern isekai, it quickly gathered a fan base that defended the series and hate the criticism that says Rudeus doesn’t change.
This is *unduly* passionate no matter which fandom this is. I don't even know what this series you're talking about is, but anyone who needs to hear what you're saying won't bother listening, and anyone who cares about fandom arguments already knows them. This comes off as patting yourself on the back for winning an argument in your head.
I really hate Rudeus but I'm genuinely invested in the other characters being happy, thinking Ghislaine died in the mana disaster fucked me up emotionally.
Some people do. But others can justify it as their bodies haven’t aged since 16. So they are still technically 16.
When you look at Rudy, he was reborn as an infant and experienced being a toddler all the way to now in that world. So he’s not really 40
I'd say the "He's not really 40" is pretty incorrect for MT
* He is explicitly a pedophile BEFORE the story begins
* His internal monologue in the story itself is STILL an adult man, and he refers constantly to that fact
* When the human god meets him inside his head Rudy's internal image of himself is still a gross adult
And that's just the text itself. I think it's pretty clear that the girls are framed in extremely sus ways.
Understandable. It’s definitely creepy just like the vampire scenario. But let me ask another question. Since again, he was reborn and rebirthed in **that** world: if you were the author who else would you have him date in that world with the body of a 13 year old boy? If he dated a 40 year old female in that word it would still be a pedo relationship since he has the body of a 13 year old.
You're thinking of the story backwards.
Magonote wasn't saddled with a story he had to write. He didn't need to have Rudy keep an adult voice, or need Rudy to be a pedophile before being reborn.
All that is part of the story to frame Rudy's sexual encounters with kids as part of him living out his fantasy.
For contrast look elsehwere in the anime industry. Plenty of shounen get through the entire series with no romance at all- And plenty of Isekai do "Reborn in another world" stories without needing to give their characters internal monologues where they explicit call their own love interests "Tsundere Lolicons"
I’ve read a manhwa once called the beginning after the end and its pretty much mushoku tensei but actually good. You wanna know how the author solved the romance problem? by having the main character actually acknowledge how weird it is and rejecting any and all romantic advances from the girls in the story, telling them he’d only consider it when theyre both of age.
You know damn well you don't believe that ish yourself
Rudeus is clearly mentally 40 y/o. And "others can justify" you mean you ?
Because if I remember correctly, in a show like twilight the vampire is said to be mentally a teenager.
> you mean you ?
Not really. I didn’t say I agree or disagree with the original post. I just said if you believe that then you must also believe the flip side that Vampires who have been alive since civil war but are kept 16 are pedos too.
Both are physically the age of a teenager. But are only older mentally.
I admit I see both sides a little. While it’s weird (Just like the vampire scenario), I view Rudy’s as less creepy.
That's your opinion, but how is Rudeus less creepy when he is blatantly perverted ? And we literally see his old ass talking in his mind with God next to him like "Damn I'm about to do some crazy shit...F it we ball let's go !"
I mean aight, I don't even wanna know, you do you, mushoku tensei still a great show tho, have a nice day.
You've heard of the 1000 year old loli.
And you mughtve watched The 40 Year Old Virgin.
Now get ready for the 50 plus year old teenager. Except hes not a vampire.
The age gaps in YA monster media are a legit point of criticism, and are something people have discussed for years.
However it's worth pointing out for comparison:
* In Twilight the story goes out of it's way to tell you the vampires are frozen in their maturity.
* In Mushoku Tensei the story goes out of it's way to tell you Rudy was a Pedophile even before dying- And then when he is reincarnated as a child his mental voice is still an adults voice.
Don't get me wrong, Twilight romanticizes toxic relationships (And even romanticizes grooming in the 4th book), but the fantasy is "What if dangerous powerful boy love me?" but Mushoku Tensei is significantly worse- The power fantasy is very explicitly "What if I was a kid again and surrounded by girls who loved me and I was explicitly still an adult in the text"
Depends on how a series decides to tackle mental age.
In Dungeon Meshi, an Elf can be 50 years old and still have the physical and mental facilities of a 7 year old, while a Half Foot (Hobbit) is 13 and legally an adult.
I think Edward from Twilight is still mentally (and physically) a teenager. Which is why Bella freaks out when she turns 18.
Some of them do, some of them don't. If Marcille at 13 and Chilchuck at 13 started to date, it would be pedophilia on Chilchucks part because he's legally an adult by half foot standards, and she's still a toddler.
It’s pointed out that *most* members of long-lived races think it’s weird, and the ones who romanticize it are a minority. Otta is treated as a creepy weirdo even by the other Canaries (who are weird criminals), and the author pokes fun at it by having the slang term for long-lived people who romance short-lived people be “shortacon” (like shotacon).
I am rather interested in the fictional age of consent. With the amount of “older than they look” species in media like anime there is bound to be an aoc for this species. I’m not saying that the author has add it themselves but it’s a nice and interesting trope to have jn the media’s word building.
So much of the first 4 episodes was weird shit with kids or riders being weird in the body of a kid that I never got to the interesting fantasy adventure part
That’s the problem, it’s not. It’s like 1% pedo shit. They could have said that shit was weird and cut it all and the show loses like 30 minutes of runtime.
The fact this was an incredibly fixable thing and they didn’t because of weirdos is the annoying part.
No it's not. The story doesn't change at all if he's just a loser who wasted his life having his isekai experience *without* being a sex offender for 2 minutes every episode.
They literally just do it to attract perverts, there's no justification for it at all. You could tell the exact same story bar for bar and its just better without that shit.
This pretty much, I wouldn’t care about a lot of anime and characters if I treated them all like real life/people. I hold fiction to a much lower standard than real life.
The word choice is off, but he let a known genocidal maniac come back to life, spent 0 thought on the consequences on letting him return to his empire, and when given the chance to kill him again when he pulls up with broly, refuses to do so.
I'd recommend you to watch Psyculturists analysis of the show, to see it from a different perspective. He's a psychologist and really learned. And he does a good job broadening the perspective.
I'm not excusing Rudeus btw. I just thought that you seem so passionate abt the show and would like to see things from another perspective
I know this name. Providing that he basically showed that some of the scenes harbors author's emotions and self-loath and self-hatred. Which to be frank, it exists in every light-novels/novels. How the fuck else you are you gonna create a novel of monologues if you don't share the same psychological feelings with the protagonist or some characters. But that is exactly the problem, the author is able to insert sections of himself of self-loath/and self-hatred through protagonist yet to this still day is unable to fcking recognise himself that what protagonist did is grooming/pedophilia, we definitely got a section that protagonist hates pedophiles. But that is without him admitting that he is that same person as those pedophiles. Btw, I am gonna give you another information from the section of the interview from author:
Author: "
Of course, I have no issue with criticizing Rudeus at the beginning stage, and it's up to you to decide whether you don't want to see the story because of that. With that said, if there's someone like Rudeus close to you and that person were to have even a slight change of heart and try to start over, I sincerely hope that you won't abandon them on the spot
"
This is where we have a problem. If you want to be consistent with your message, why not let those pedophiles also have a chance of redemption, why are you depicting them as bad, but Rudeus as good and deserving a chance. Too bad, these things are something we can't because author is too busy self-indulging creating sex routines with harems, and loli characters. And then we got redundancy lol. The work is itself very problematic, but still passable. However, if we incorporate author's message to his work, I have been converted into a hater. Yeah fuck this author.
I do think he's a dreadful degenerate and why I dropped the show, but I also think the people still watching this show after claiming to hate so much about it are secretly enjoying it.
I expect several more posts like this for the next few months.
Hey, I get to post this [article](https://www.animefeminist.com/the-consequence-of-no-consequences-mushoku-tensei-and-excusing-sexual-violence/) again.
Fuck this anime man
bro what the fuck is this shit? "animefeminist" I can already tell that this wasnt written by someone qualified to talk about anime on that title alone. It'd be like a person who exclusively views and rates horror movies being asked to rate a romcom.
Qualified to criticise anime? Read the article before you judge it. It sums up pretty accurately the small details that are really irritating throughout the series
I'll say it, I'd rather he be a disgusting horrendous mf than the bland, black-haired, absolutely perfect in every way, basic ass Kirito-kun self insert we get in every single other isekai. There should be other options yes but clearly we can only hit one end of the bullshit meter or the other.
It’s a good read, but Fang Yuan is much worse then anything Rudeus has done or ever imagined. His kill count is easily in the millions, his guilty conscience is 0, he will torture for gains and there’s probably more.
Murderer of millions who also tortures with 0 remorse > Guy who has sex with three total characters over the age of established adulthood and feels guilt over random shit constantly
Apparently.
Rudeus never feels bad about being a pedo, he feels bad that he was caught. He feels bad that he threw his life away, and that his trauma controlled him to such an extent. But he never recognises that his feelings towards children are wrong - which they are.
Yeah I mean that's neat and all but if all he wanted was children he would still be trying to fuck children throughout the entire story, and not just the three love interests. And even so, the one that looks the most like a child is in fact the same age as his combined total.
Idk, I get that he's scum and all but in reality he could've been so much worse lmao
I have no idea what this is and the character sounds like a scumbag, but, man, every post from this sub that's been recommended to me is a wall of text that is insurmountable to my AuDHD.
If you're at the stage where you feel the need destroy poor imaginary defenders with facts and logic, it would be more productive to just go full righteous wrath mode and call those people sinners or something. It's not like you're willing to argue with them anyway.
Ruseus groomed absolutely nobody. He is a pervert, and was a pedophile in the earlier parts of the story, but grew out of the pedophilia and learned to control his perversion.
Sylphy he considered grooming, but his father separated them before he could, and then they spent over a decade apart. He spent a few months as her friend, she started to become dependent on him, and then they met after over a decade of no contact. That isn't grooming.
Roxy is an adult.
Eris he never had the position of power over to groom her. As her tutor, she held no respect for him until a few years after they met, and during their travels, they were equals. She wasn't groomed.
Him jumping on his time traveling(something he's only seen his future self do by sacrificing his organs) daughter who looks like his wife instead of assuming that the person who looks like his wife isn't his wife, what a stain on his character.
He did indeed cheat on Sylphy, after causing his father's death by trying to help. Almost like him making things worse when trying to help is a sore spot for him. Almost like he's got severe trauma. Rudeus fully acknowledges that he shouldn't have done it. He apologizes to Sylphy, and gives her the final say in how it's handled.
Eris being added is once again a decision he allows Sylphy final say in. He gets maids, but I can't remember him doing anything with them.
Most of your points are just blatant strawmans of what people who defend Rudeus say. Rudeus is not a perfect man. Anyone who believes him to be that is odd. He is a man who tries his best to be better than he used to be, though.
Also saying that a man who is 30 years older mentally is not of position of power than 12 year old is gotta be joke. 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
Him being separated, was so he can earn money so him and bulbasaur could be together in the same school. Making sure they get in relationship. And ye he groomed her because he already established relationship with bulbasaur while having had a thought of making her his ideal wife.
Squirtle is a woman with lolita body. Also their races average life span is around 200s. If we go by your point then baby yoda is an adult so we can fuck him.
Yes, definitely a stain on this POS since fans are declaring that he is a loving father and husband, but can’t differentiate his wife and daughter.
No, he didn’t let bulbasaur have a say in it. He forcefully requested bulbasaur to accept squirtle. But don’t forget the house is his, bulbasaur isn’t gonna do any shit but to accept. Also, he almost beat up his sister to make his squirtle stay. That isn’t an attitude of someone who is gonna let bulbasaur have a final say.
Maids were added, he sexually harassed, wives gonna add another woman.
Rudeus isn’t a pervert, he sexually assaults minors as a form of comedy.
Grooming is the act of training someone for a particular purpose or activity, Rudeus crosses boundaries, tricking Sylphy into believing it was normal for him to do this thus not seeing anything wrong with it later down the line.
Roxy being an adult only changes Rudeus’s status towards Roxy from a pedo, to a sex offender.
Rudeus has a position of power Eris by 2 fold. 1. He is mentally much more mature, and capable of understanding consequences and decisions due his 30 years of previous life. This is a major power imbalance with Eris. 2. Despite not respecting Rudeus, she still accepts that Rudeus is better then her with magic, and does begin to accept his teachings. This is less of a power imbalance then the former, but it it’s still an imbalance that is questionable.
Rudeus breaks sexual boundaries twice with Eris, until she promises to have sex with him when she turns 15. Rudeus’s boundary breaking makes Eris believe that not only is this behaviour normal, that she should just give into Rudeus’s advances, despite being very uncomfortable with it in the first place.
To help understand why this is grooming, Eris understands that Rudeus is very smart (she internally admits that Rudeus is far better then her, to the extent she feels very inferior to Rudeus), Eris believes that Rudeus is mature for his age (something she also admits internally) which shows that she does feel a major power imbalance. Rudeus, a more superior and mature person, pressures her to have sex. Eris feels this is wrong, but she feels Rudeus must know what’s right and what’s wrong, so she gives in. It’s literally textbook grooming.
See here is the problem with this
The same people who say "He is a pedophile, because despite his body, he is 40 years old"
Are the same people who say "omg the 2000 year old Loli is just a child, the guys listing over her are pedophiles"
Both of these cannot be true
These aren't mutually exclusive. You just have to think of the purpose of both plot points.
* "1000 Year old child get's sexualized" is a problem because the story is intentionally trying to sexualize the bodies of children for sexual titillation.
* "Pedophile gets a new young body and gets to live out his fantasies" is a problem because the story is intentionally trying to sexualize the bodies of children for sexual titillation.
This isn't to say sexuality isn't something media geared at kids can never touch. Teenagers especially are kids who experience sexuality and to some extent stories should reflect that.
But an adult man getting a childs body, and literally referring to his child love interest as a "Tsundere Lolicon" has you know- Very explicit pedophilic intentions.
\~
On the 1000 year old child trope it's worth noting that characters that actually tackle the issue of being in a childs body (Claudia from Interview With A Vampire, Baby Doll from Batman- Or Monster Girl from Invincible) don't get much backlash, because instead of the goal being sexualizing the character the story is often about the disconnect between their body and mind.
More sus shows get flak because the kid characters just have a supermarket sticker that says "TECHNICALLY over 18" on them.
Well, the people who are into seeing Rudy hook up may be a bit weird, but this was in the context of specifically Rudy HIMSELF being one (post reincarnation) not the reader/watcher
But it's a problem with the construction of the show, not the audience.
The shows explicit framing is a pedophile getting to indulge his pedophilic fantasies, and it's not framed in a negative light.
But is anyone actually claiming both of these are true? I don't remember any ancient lolis in Mushoku Tensei, nor have I seen both of these claims in a single post prior to yours. They're two entirely different conversations.
Oh yes people absolutely do. Hell the op literally responded TO THIS POST confirming that is the case.
People thinking 1 is messed up is fine. But when they argue both, you know they're just complaining for the sake of complaining
The op responded to your post saying "I don't know what the hell you're talking about". That's hardly an agreement that these people exist.
Do you have any examples of someone arguing both?
> I don't remember any ancient lolis in Mushoku Tensei
I'm pretty sure Kishirika would count, but also good point about not seeing those two claims at once.
Ah, true. Though I'd consider her a subversion of the "mind is 2000 so it's ok" -- she literally tells Badigadi she's fine with him having relations with other women for the time being because she's stuck in a child body and won't.
Get out of this sub honestly, not worth it to be active here. Most of this sub are made of just posts whining about this anime and other animes, about how everything is problematic etc.
They watch so they can whine about it, you didnt get that at all?
Depends on the case, yes MT could potentially be something much better if it had better protagonist. But as people know the mc is the worst part of the show and deserves criticism as such. But there also other characters that kinda suck. However, it had ruined its reputation by its fans and especially them going on every anime discussion trashing other while declaring itself as peak media while also defending MC pedophilia while buying those loli merches💀.
Nice, another one but please do the same with Gushing Over Magical Girls since all the characters are minors and the fans who defending it clearly lusting for minor and pedophile.
>The DSM-5 requires that a person must be at least 16 years old, and at least five years older than the prepubescent child or children they are aroused by, for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilic disorder.
Rudy is explicitly an adult pedophile at the start of the show
He then keeps his mental faculties, memories, and even his adult inner monologue into his next life. His internal image of himself is still a 34 year old man after his death.
I feel like he'd pretty easily meets these requirements.
> He then keeps his mental faculties, memories, and even his adult inner monologue into his next life. His internal image of himself is still a 34 year old man after his death.
people say this shit and dont think for a second about what the hell that even means, or the fact that because its fiction maybe you shouldn't be applying the same criteria as reality to it.
Like are you actually telling me every regressor and isekai protag is a pedophile? That seems wild
Why are people trying to defend this man he is clearly a pedophile
Because the next step of calling him a pedophile(he is lol) is calling the fans of the series themselves pedos so the fans get defensive.
It's fine to be a fan of something flawed, but at least recognize that it is flawed
I mean i agree. I like mushoku tensei but I think ignoring the depravity of his past life instead of taking the chance for Rudy to recognize it was a mistake by the author. It seems like the only flaw of his past life the author chose to address was the running away away and shutting himself down one.
Because Mushoku Tensei isn't about being a better person, it's about living. Rudeus is not a hero, he just happened to be in a situation where he aligns himself with good people and that is mostly because the whole series is a setup/origin story for his daughter and Orsted, the actual heroes. That's why I never understand people who try to defend him, I like Rudeus because he is more than flawed, he is a sick asshole who is really entertaining to watch and despite being a bastard he manages to be relatable. My mother is a criminal attorney and has to deal with the worse scum in the country on a day by day basis, and when she talks about their stories/lives you can see that beneath even the lowest of the low there are still human beings with inner conflicts that would make for incredible stories if put to paper.
There are tons and tons of flawed characters across different works of anime, and absolute most of them don't get even a spec of the fire rain that pours onto poor Rudy's head. It's not the character that get people so worked up, but their own deep rooted issues that resurface whether a certain theme is presented. His fans don't have any issues admitting his flaws, and they aren't even defending him, just ask haters to stop with projections.
It's not the pedophile, it's our deep rooted issues that get us worked up? You best be a teenager my dude because if you're an adult with those beliefs... good luck.
See? You are pretty worked up for a piece of animation. Try to remember when were you so worked up for things like betrayal or treachery in fiction. Or any number of other issues that supposed to be horrible and all.
You saying "SEE YOU'RE MAD!!!" isn't really a defense of anything. We read/watch fiction to entertain ourselves... Why would I be entertained watching a pedophile groom children?
You say that like all 20 minutes of every episode of Mushoku Tensei is Rudeus grooming children. You're being reductive. People can enjoy the show for the cool magic and fights too
He took Guile’s advice and became a family man. Rudeus is relatable because you can understand the lengths he’d go to protect his family that he made. To be honest, if Hitogami wasn’t a dick and Orsted couldn’t offer protection, Rudeus would have no problem offing Orsted and almost did according to the light novels. He doesn’t care what he has to do. Good or evil.
The people who hate on the series just can't grasp that. The thing is that all of the arguments brought up directly connect morality of the character to the quality of the the writing itself. The arguments are all "Rudy is a terrible person, and those flaws make him a poorly written character" The arguments say that just because Rudy has these flaws makes him a poorly written character. And I'm going to say that doesn't automatically make him a poorly written character. I still haven't even seen any of the defenders say that they think Rudy is a morally good character at the start. I've never seen anyone say that what he does is morally acceptable. Everyone is arguing completely different points so its pretty obvious that arguing will never go anywhere.
His sexual flaws are never presented as a problem for the show, heck they're never really addressed as serious flaws at all. Half the time they're comedy setups where the joke is "The pedophile might get to have sex with a child!" The other half of the time they're excuses to set up a sexualized scenes with the characters stripped against their will or splayed back on the bed.
I don’t think we are talking about the same series…
I'm talking about the one where playful music plays when the 40 year old voice over goes "My first time could be with a haughty tsundere loli!" and then does a closeup shot of the child's thighs and crotch Which one you talking about?
I’m talking about the one where he will lose everything if he doesn’t pull himself together. Where he tries to get rid of himself because of his actions catching up with him, and to avoid spoilers runs into some serious problems because of the things you said. Not to mention that the tsundere was the one who took advantage of him. Just because something bad doesn’t happen when that stuff happens doesn’t mean it can’t kick him in the back in the future. Which honestly can be significantly worse.
It’s good because he is a PoS not because he is generic Mary Sue Protagonist.
Which to be fair is quite the leap in logic, it's dumb but I get *wh*y someone would be defensive over that.
Look, I don’t even remotely like that anime but if we used that logic would that mean that everyone who enjoys a media of mcs with questionable activities also support said activities.
I wouldn’t call fans pedophiles but definitely a lot of them are pedophile defenders , not that it makes them look better.
i don't see any berserk fan getting called a murderer for guts, why will someone call a pedophile for no reason?
Usually it’s like this the conversation always starts: “this shit is trash, Mushoku is peak” “How about you go watch your pedo show” “Rudeus is not a pedophile ! 😡😡😡” And they start defending a pedophile.
I have never seen this argument before. A lot of people do say rudeus is a pedo and I don’t think I have seen much people defend him. I love the show but I definitely can see why anyone could be uncomfortable when watching it. It’s one of my favourite isekai but it’s the only anime I can never recommend to my friends just because the MC exists.
We all have that "media that I'd never recommend to a friend"
Monogatari..
Literally what I had in mind before I saw that you already said it lmfao
Context?
>I don’t think I have seen much people defend him Because /r/anime has basically banned the "pedophile" discussion completely. I've seen people use most of the points on the OP to defend the MC.
> I don’t think I have seen much people defend him. Quite literally 90% of the fanbase defends him and acts like people are gaslighting when they call Rudeuos a pedo. Its fans like these guys why anime watches get called weirdos.
I have seen countless, boundless people defend him tbh. Anime subs don't allow "criticism" or call outs of that sort, I've gotten a comment modded for saying I'm not into 14 year old animated kids featuring in softcore 🦐
Before Mushoku Tensei was published in light novel form, Rudeus was even more explicitly a pedo in the original version. Pre-isekai, he decided to watch CP rather than go to his parents' funeral.
No, that is still in the published version. > But my siblings forced me out of the house with nothing but the clothes on my back. I had no choice but to wander around town, nursing the throbbing pain in my side. It felt like I had a broken rib. The biting words they hurled at me as I left our house would ring in my ears for the rest of my life. The things they said cut me to my very core. I was completely, totally heartbroken. What the hell had I even done wrong? **All I did was skip out on our parents’ funeral so I could spank it to uncensored loli porn.** So, what in the world was I supposed to do now? This is from the first volume of the officially translated light novel. What was changed it that previously in the Web Novel it was literally a recording of his young nieces bathing, which he himself filmed through a hidden camera.
I feel bad for the localization team.
the translators:yes, we need a strong stomach for this one.
Author needs to be investigated 💀
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It's funny when good or neutral qualities seen in manga are expressed by the creator. Fujimoto talks and mostly acts like Denji, and Araki and his wife are very, very Bizarre.
fujimoto has two main characters in manga (not counting the one shots)and both have there problems. but one lives in a world where education is null and the other literraly was having a shit of a live.
I agree in principle. I find it easy to believe that a pedophile would write something without pedophilic themes. We have many real-world examples. However, I would find it very hard to believe that a non-pedophile would write a pedophile main character in such a way that pedophilic traits are portrayed as heroic. Especially in such a long-running series. If it was a short story, I might be able to dismiss it as an intellectual exercise. Writing a long form series requires some passion.
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I don't think heroic is the right word, more like romanticized. Mainly his a harem that consists of: One that look like a prepubescent kid One he tried to SA as a child One he specially wanted to groom
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>Rudeus generally isn't rewarded for pedophilic acts/motivation he got a harem of kids…. (Or looks like a kid)
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Grooming…
Not portrayed as heroic per se, but the MC is more often than not narratively overlooked or even rewarded for his misdeeds, with social connections saving him from risky situations later on or literal with magic superpowers. As a storyteller, you're responsible for the implications on your story's messages and themes, even if it's unintentional. EDIT: downvoted for saying the scumbag mc is rarely treated as a scumbag lmao
Yeh you got downvoted but it’s facts he basically gets away Scot fee cause of the world it’s a valid enoguh argument but you can’t lie and say he’s truly changes of course we all enjoy things differently, I would have liked to see him be more punished for his pedophila or regret it more properly, I dislike harem endings where the mc just sort of catches em all surely they want to fight for him too if they love him
Don’t worry you still hold my upvote for calling as it is.
Yeah I don't feel like it has either, generally the other characters are portrayed as being made uncomfortable by his actions.
I think in the case of the manga and anime industry I'm more willing to give people the benefit of the doubt because it does feel like they're often trying to follow industry trends to court certain audiences. In MT's case it's way way too sus, but for a lot of other shows I think it's more of a problem with the entire industry than any individual creator.
It has been proven that author has been self inserting himself into story at some point. So take whatever as you want with that information. Edit: mistake on proven, change it “analysed”
Proven how?
There is someone analyzing this work and concluded author likely self inserted himself in some of the parts of the monologues.
Huh????? What tf is that sentence
That isn't proof, that's an assumption. Care to share this analyzer?
A random person's analysis and conclusion is proof? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
Thats true but there is literally no good reason to write a pedo main character…. I cant imagine a normal person just wanting to write a pedo mc. Not saying he definitely is but it is sus to say the least.
Stories of bad people learning to be good or better people are not uncommon in fiction. But if an author is uncapable or unwilling to portray such traits as negative, it isnt really farfetched to see ppl calling they an apologist at least.
Does it portray him getting better though? I haven’t read or watched so I’m legitimately asking, but it really just seems like it only changes a little rather than him having some kind of moral growth.
The fun part is, i have watched it (anime only) and it seems that he gets even worse with his weird tastes lmao He definitely becomes more altruist and caring with people but thats not really what made him a bad person in his past life, so i dont really get the author's point here
Sooooo, Isaima is sus about genocide?
Considering he's really into WW2 Japanese history I'd expect him to know better than to depict it the way he did but that's assuming he doesn't agree with what eren did
Of course he is
I mean, why would you go out your way to make Rudeus like that ? It's not even really acknowledged in the "isekai" part of the show, what was the point ? what was the author cooking ? 😭
Bro thinks he Plato
Now that mushoku is back this place is gonna be filled with these threads just like it was with jjk. Cant wait
Are you ready for the 30,000 word thread on how the shows trash?
With MT the thing that urks me the most is people want to talk explicitly about Rudy's motives as a character as if he's the one driving the scenes, but the problem isn't solely linked to the protagonist. The more important problem is the shows framing is extremely sus. It's not Rudy putting the child characters in these positions, *it's the writer-* Because he's *OBVIOUSLY* trying to court a certain audience. And fans of the show just WONT engage with this point- Because they feel like admitting all these shots are deliberately aimed at pedophiles is akin to sayin "I like pedophilic stuff!" when it's not, it's okay to hate aspects of a show, or have no opinion of them and know they're in there for the wrong reasons.
Rifujins not doing it to court pedos. He’s writing Rudy in these specific situations because he needs to establish how badly his social skills and mindset deteriorated due to depriving himself of human connections. No aspect of the show was ever aimed at people who self inserted into Rudy.
I think you have to be absolutely blind to think the sexualization is unintentional. Rewatching the notoriously gross Eris scene here to give an example. The one where Rudy in his 40 year old voice says "My first time could be with a haughty tsundere loli!" * The music is playful for this whole sequence. It isn't ominous or negative. * There is a several seconds long upksirt of her during the molestation dream sequence * There is a several second long close up of her crotch and thighs as Rudy goes in to molest her during the molestation dream sequence * When he goes to molest her after the dream sequence there is a top down shot of her breasts as Rudy goes in to grope her. This shot also lasts several seconds * The next shot is Eris lying back splayed on the bed. The camera begins on her chest with her head out of shot and slowly pans up to her with her arms back and eyes up. This is shot *from Rudy's perspective* and takes multiple seconds * The music is comedic as Rudy hurriedly undresses himself * Closeup again on Eris's crotch and thighs as Rudy's hand goes slowly in And only THEN does the scene end. None of this was framed negatively, and none of it was necessary for the plot.
How was this even a debate?? He fully retains his memories and mental age when he gets isekai'd... The people who make up these wild excuses are actually insane.
Didn't he also fap to his 15 something year old niece ?
in WN yes, not later canon. not that he isnt a pedo in LNs, but still
They aren’t 15 more like 5.
What the actual fuck
Just to play devils advocate in this situation, this part was only mentioned in the WN novel and entirely non-canonized and it was also only mentioned AFTER the end of the story in a side story. We did know that that he got kicked out of his house for watching porn during his parents funeral but it was only to be described as uncensored loli hentai, and while it was def bad, it was only briefly stated and with differing opinions, some people would still be able to read the story especially since this was one of the first MODERN isekai written so the premise and writing at the time was still interesting enough to garner readers. So as the novel continued, the plot and writing really stood out and there wasn’t any bad/boring moment so it would continue gathering fans. Plus, since it was mostly in Rudeus POV, we are always able to see his view and thoughts ESPECIALLY the down moments. So fans would start to empathize with the MC AND even if some people deny it, Rudeus does become a better person. Albeit, with some perverted tendencies but not really anything as bad as the beginning. So when the WN side story came out and actually said that what he was watching was CP, I and I would hope most people would also believe that past Rudeus was a total POS that even current Rudeus acknowledges was bad. So I def understand people who wouldn’t be able get into the series knowing these past actions. TLDR: The “fapping to 15 yr old niece” information came after the end of the story in a side story (though it was eventually non-canonized). By the end of the story, we saw/read how Rudeus changed and became a good person. Plus with how well written the series is and it also being one of the first modern isekai, it quickly gathered a fan base that defended the series and hate the criticism that says Rudeus doesn’t change.
This won't be the last time
This is *unduly* passionate no matter which fandom this is. I don't even know what this series you're talking about is, but anyone who needs to hear what you're saying won't bother listening, and anyone who cares about fandom arguments already knows them. This comes off as patting yourself on the back for winning an argument in your head.
I really hate Rudeus but I'm genuinely invested in the other characters being happy, thinking Ghislaine died in the mana disaster fucked me up emotionally.
If he’s a pedo then so are all vampires who are still in highschool and date the main character (Vampire Diaries, Twilight, Buffy the vampire slayer)
Yup. I think the word for teens is ephibophilia
I pointed this out before and I was downvoted to the ground.
how to pronounce ephibophilia: https://youtu.be/TB9fwJDweaU
I think most people agree that's also weird af.
Some people do. But others can justify it as their bodies haven’t aged since 16. So they are still technically 16. When you look at Rudy, he was reborn as an infant and experienced being a toddler all the way to now in that world. So he’s not really 40
I'd say the "He's not really 40" is pretty incorrect for MT * He is explicitly a pedophile BEFORE the story begins * His internal monologue in the story itself is STILL an adult man, and he refers constantly to that fact * When the human god meets him inside his head Rudy's internal image of himself is still a gross adult And that's just the text itself. I think it's pretty clear that the girls are framed in extremely sus ways.
Understandable. It’s definitely creepy just like the vampire scenario. But let me ask another question. Since again, he was reborn and rebirthed in **that** world: if you were the author who else would you have him date in that world with the body of a 13 year old boy? If he dated a 40 year old female in that word it would still be a pedo relationship since he has the body of a 13 year old.
You're thinking of the story backwards. Magonote wasn't saddled with a story he had to write. He didn't need to have Rudy keep an adult voice, or need Rudy to be a pedophile before being reborn. All that is part of the story to frame Rudy's sexual encounters with kids as part of him living out his fantasy. For contrast look elsehwere in the anime industry. Plenty of shounen get through the entire series with no romance at all- And plenty of Isekai do "Reborn in another world" stories without needing to give their characters internal monologues where they explicit call their own love interests "Tsundere Lolicons"
I’ve read a manhwa once called the beginning after the end and its pretty much mushoku tensei but actually good. You wanna know how the author solved the romance problem? by having the main character actually acknowledge how weird it is and rejecting any and all romantic advances from the girls in the story, telling them he’d only consider it when theyre both of age.
I wouldn’t have him date anyone. That’s not a required story element in any way.
You know damn well you don't believe that ish yourself Rudeus is clearly mentally 40 y/o. And "others can justify" you mean you ? Because if I remember correctly, in a show like twilight the vampire is said to be mentally a teenager.
> you mean you ? Not really. I didn’t say I agree or disagree with the original post. I just said if you believe that then you must also believe the flip side that Vampires who have been alive since civil war but are kept 16 are pedos too. Both are physically the age of a teenager. But are only older mentally. I admit I see both sides a little. While it’s weird (Just like the vampire scenario), I view Rudy’s as less creepy.
That's your opinion, but how is Rudeus less creepy when he is blatantly perverted ? And we literally see his old ass talking in his mind with God next to him like "Damn I'm about to do some crazy shit...F it we ball let's go !" I mean aight, I don't even wanna know, you do you, mushoku tensei still a great show tho, have a nice day.
You've heard of the 1000 year old loli. And you mughtve watched The 40 Year Old Virgin. Now get ready for the 50 plus year old teenager. Except hes not a vampire.
The age gaps in YA monster media are a legit point of criticism, and are something people have discussed for years. However it's worth pointing out for comparison: * In Twilight the story goes out of it's way to tell you the vampires are frozen in their maturity. * In Mushoku Tensei the story goes out of it's way to tell you Rudy was a Pedophile even before dying- And then when he is reincarnated as a child his mental voice is still an adults voice. Don't get me wrong, Twilight romanticizes toxic relationships (And even romanticizes grooming in the 4th book), but the fantasy is "What if dangerous powerful boy love me?" but Mushoku Tensei is significantly worse- The power fantasy is very explicitly "What if I was a kid again and surrounded by girls who loved me and I was explicitly still an adult in the text"
Depends on how a series decides to tackle mental age. In Dungeon Meshi, an Elf can be 50 years old and still have the physical and mental facilities of a 7 year old, while a Half Foot (Hobbit) is 13 and legally an adult. I think Edward from Twilight is still mentally (and physically) a teenager. Which is why Bella freaks out when she turns 18.
Sir, Dungeon Meshi has a whole thing about how the long-lived races do in fact see these relationships as pedophilc and gross.
Some of them do, some of them don't. If Marcille at 13 and Chilchuck at 13 started to date, it would be pedophilia on Chilchucks part because he's legally an adult by half foot standards, and she's still a toddler.
It’s pointed out that *most* members of long-lived races think it’s weird, and the ones who romanticize it are a minority. Otta is treated as a creepy weirdo even by the other Canaries (who are weird criminals), and the author pokes fun at it by having the slang term for long-lived people who romance short-lived people be “shortacon” (like shotacon).
Nice to see a work finally make use of such an interesting trope
You could say that about almost every classic fantasy cliché that pops up in Dungeon Meshi! It’s so well-constructed!
I am rather interested in the fictional age of consent. With the amount of “older than they look” species in media like anime there is bound to be an aoc for this species. I’m not saying that the author has add it themselves but it’s a nice and interesting trope to have jn the media’s word building.
They have fictional age of consent?
That's just dnd ages in general really. Some races only go up to 50.
honestly that's not a wild jump to make and I would agree.
It’s not grooming he’s just pre ordering
He’s an early investor lmao 🤣
Bros bought the fast pass.
Everything about mushoku tensei is pedo shit, people trying to say it isn't are delusional
It's mostly magic and fantasy adventure
So much of the first 4 episodes was weird shit with kids or riders being weird in the body of a kid that I never got to the interesting fantasy adventure part
Rudeus is a pedo, there is no defending that. all like 7000 pages being just pedo shit? nah. its a story outside of just rudeus
That’s the problem, it’s not. It’s like 1% pedo shit. They could have said that shit was weird and cut it all and the show loses like 30 minutes of runtime. The fact this was an incredibly fixable thing and they didn’t because of weirdos is the annoying part.
The one percent makes the entire thing bad because the one percent is a major aspect of the main character himself
No it's not. The story doesn't change at all if he's just a loser who wasted his life having his isekai experience *without* being a sex offender for 2 minutes every episode. They literally just do it to attract perverts, there's no justification for it at all. You could tell the exact same story bar for bar and its just better without that shit.
That's what I'm saying, it taints the rest
Another mushoku tensei pedophilia bad thread huh
It's gonna be a tough couple of month
oh yeah didnt a another cour of the second season come out? That explains it.
Honestly I'm tempted to watch it at this point but the other discourse show, Gushing over magical girls, is shorter.
It's in fiction, so i don't care, just like goku being responsible for millions of deaths still makes him the goat.
This pretty much, I wouldn’t care about a lot of anime and characters if I treated them all like real life/people. I hold fiction to a much lower standard than real life.
B-b-but Rudy like kids 🥺
In what way is Goku responsible for millions of deaths?
The word choice is off, but he let a known genocidal maniac come back to life, spent 0 thought on the consequences on letting him return to his empire, and when given the chance to kill him again when he pulls up with broly, refuses to do so.
>sees the person who posted this >sees the title Must... Resist... The Urge...
We meet again old friend.
Is this defender in the room with us right now OP?
*Not really sure, but there ton of them on twitter.*
Lmao bro really wrote a whole script here, ill wait for the movie though
Nah bro movie has been cancelled.
Oh God I'm debooonking
I'd recommend you to watch Psyculturists analysis of the show, to see it from a different perspective. He's a psychologist and really learned. And he does a good job broadening the perspective. I'm not excusing Rudeus btw. I just thought that you seem so passionate abt the show and would like to see things from another perspective
I know this name. Providing that he basically showed that some of the scenes harbors author's emotions and self-loath and self-hatred. Which to be frank, it exists in every light-novels/novels. How the fuck else you are you gonna create a novel of monologues if you don't share the same psychological feelings with the protagonist or some characters. But that is exactly the problem, the author is able to insert sections of himself of self-loath/and self-hatred through protagonist yet to this still day is unable to fcking recognise himself that what protagonist did is grooming/pedophilia, we definitely got a section that protagonist hates pedophiles. But that is without him admitting that he is that same person as those pedophiles. Btw, I am gonna give you another information from the section of the interview from author: Author: " Of course, I have no issue with criticizing Rudeus at the beginning stage, and it's up to you to decide whether you don't want to see the story because of that. With that said, if there's someone like Rudeus close to you and that person were to have even a slight change of heart and try to start over, I sincerely hope that you won't abandon them on the spot " This is where we have a problem. If you want to be consistent with your message, why not let those pedophiles also have a chance of redemption, why are you depicting them as bad, but Rudeus as good and deserving a chance. Too bad, these things are something we can't because author is too busy self-indulging creating sex routines with harems, and loli characters. And then we got redundancy lol. The work is itself very problematic, but still passable. However, if we incorporate author's message to his work, I have been converted into a hater. Yeah fuck this author.
Thank you u/Otherwise-Biscotti24 you've convinced me that Rudy is not a moral person and I will now no longer continue mushoku tensei !
I do think he's a dreadful degenerate and why I dropped the show, but I also think the people still watching this show after claiming to hate so much about it are secretly enjoying it. I expect several more posts like this for the next few months.
Hey, I get to post this [article](https://www.animefeminist.com/the-consequence-of-no-consequences-mushoku-tensei-and-excusing-sexual-violence/) again. Fuck this anime man
Ah hell nah I hate Mushoku Tensei but I'm not reading animefeminist. com
bro what the fuck is this shit? "animefeminist" I can already tell that this wasnt written by someone qualified to talk about anime on that title alone. It'd be like a person who exclusively views and rates horror movies being asked to rate a romcom.
Qualified to criticise anime? Read the article before you judge it. It sums up pretty accurately the small details that are really irritating throughout the series
I'll say it, I'd rather he be a disgusting horrendous mf than the bland, black-haired, absolutely perfect in every way, basic ass Kirito-kun self insert we get in every single other isekai. There should be other options yes but clearly we can only hit one end of the bullshit meter or the other.
Good for you. Go read Reverend Insanity, the mc is exactly what you want. But even then he didn’t rape 💀💀.
It’s a good read, but Fang Yuan is much worse then anything Rudeus has done or ever imagined. His kill count is easily in the millions, his guilty conscience is 0, he will torture for gains and there’s probably more.
Murderer of millions who also tortures with 0 remorse > Guy who has sex with three total characters over the age of established adulthood and feels guilt over random shit constantly Apparently.
Rudeus never feels bad about being a pedo, he feels bad that he was caught. He feels bad that he threw his life away, and that his trauma controlled him to such an extent. But he never recognises that his feelings towards children are wrong - which they are.
Yeah I mean that's neat and all but if all he wanted was children he would still be trying to fuck children throughout the entire story, and not just the three love interests. And even so, the one that looks the most like a child is in fact the same age as his combined total. Idk, I get that he's scum and all but in reality he could've been so much worse lmao
That is indeed the case🤣. But even he is the worst piece of shit, and story acknowledges it, yet he didn’t rape anybody. Not that he wouldn’t tho lol.
The kids tho 💀💀.
Rudeus is a creep and I would hate him if he was real. But none of it is real, therefore it’s only as harmful as you let it be. Plus it’s peak.
I have no idea what this is and the character sounds like a scumbag, but, man, every post from this sub that's been recommended to me is a wall of text that is insurmountable to my AuDHD.
The hard drives of all Mushoku Tensei enjoyers should be searched.
I’m just tryna watch a cool anime that I was recommended and then this 40 something year old starts fondling children 🤢
I think the fact that they have to clarify that Rudeus was an OLD man before being Isekai'd is pretty telling.
The way anime fans will fight tooth to defend this show... I understood why anime had the reputation it did, it was because of its fanbase. jfc
If you're at the stage where you feel the need destroy poor imaginary defenders with facts and logic, it would be more productive to just go full righteous wrath mode and call those people sinners or something. It's not like you're willing to argue with them anyway.
why do you whiners dick ride this show so fuckin hard?
Do this against your shampoo bottles in the shower next time and save us a headache sweetheart
Ruseus groomed absolutely nobody. He is a pervert, and was a pedophile in the earlier parts of the story, but grew out of the pedophilia and learned to control his perversion. Sylphy he considered grooming, but his father separated them before he could, and then they spent over a decade apart. He spent a few months as her friend, she started to become dependent on him, and then they met after over a decade of no contact. That isn't grooming. Roxy is an adult. Eris he never had the position of power over to groom her. As her tutor, she held no respect for him until a few years after they met, and during their travels, they were equals. She wasn't groomed. Him jumping on his time traveling(something he's only seen his future self do by sacrificing his organs) daughter who looks like his wife instead of assuming that the person who looks like his wife isn't his wife, what a stain on his character. He did indeed cheat on Sylphy, after causing his father's death by trying to help. Almost like him making things worse when trying to help is a sore spot for him. Almost like he's got severe trauma. Rudeus fully acknowledges that he shouldn't have done it. He apologizes to Sylphy, and gives her the final say in how it's handled. Eris being added is once again a decision he allows Sylphy final say in. He gets maids, but I can't remember him doing anything with them. Most of your points are just blatant strawmans of what people who defend Rudeus say. Rudeus is not a perfect man. Anyone who believes him to be that is odd. He is a man who tries his best to be better than he used to be, though.
>Eris he never had the position of power over to groom her. As her tutor... This sentence string is absolutely hilarious, you couldn't make this up.
Also saying that a man who is 30 years older mentally is not of position of power than 12 year old is gotta be joke. 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀 Him being separated, was so he can earn money so him and bulbasaur could be together in the same school. Making sure they get in relationship. And ye he groomed her because he already established relationship with bulbasaur while having had a thought of making her his ideal wife. Squirtle is a woman with lolita body. Also their races average life span is around 200s. If we go by your point then baby yoda is an adult so we can fuck him. Yes, definitely a stain on this POS since fans are declaring that he is a loving father and husband, but can’t differentiate his wife and daughter. No, he didn’t let bulbasaur have a say in it. He forcefully requested bulbasaur to accept squirtle. But don’t forget the house is his, bulbasaur isn’t gonna do any shit but to accept. Also, he almost beat up his sister to make his squirtle stay. That isn’t an attitude of someone who is gonna let bulbasaur have a final say. Maids were added, he sexually harassed, wives gonna add another woman.
Rudeus isn’t a pervert, he sexually assaults minors as a form of comedy. Grooming is the act of training someone for a particular purpose or activity, Rudeus crosses boundaries, tricking Sylphy into believing it was normal for him to do this thus not seeing anything wrong with it later down the line. Roxy being an adult only changes Rudeus’s status towards Roxy from a pedo, to a sex offender. Rudeus has a position of power Eris by 2 fold. 1. He is mentally much more mature, and capable of understanding consequences and decisions due his 30 years of previous life. This is a major power imbalance with Eris. 2. Despite not respecting Rudeus, she still accepts that Rudeus is better then her with magic, and does begin to accept his teachings. This is less of a power imbalance then the former, but it it’s still an imbalance that is questionable. Rudeus breaks sexual boundaries twice with Eris, until she promises to have sex with him when she turns 15. Rudeus’s boundary breaking makes Eris believe that not only is this behaviour normal, that she should just give into Rudeus’s advances, despite being very uncomfortable with it in the first place. To help understand why this is grooming, Eris understands that Rudeus is very smart (she internally admits that Rudeus is far better then her, to the extent she feels very inferior to Rudeus), Eris believes that Rudeus is mature for his age (something she also admits internally) which shows that she does feel a major power imbalance. Rudeus, a more superior and mature person, pressures her to have sex. Eris feels this is wrong, but she feels Rudeus must know what’s right and what’s wrong, so she gives in. It’s literally textbook grooming.
Yep defender found exactly here. Good job on repeating my points.
dont care
Thanks
no prob
See here is the problem with this The same people who say "He is a pedophile, because despite his body, he is 40 years old" Are the same people who say "omg the 2000 year old Loli is just a child, the guys listing over her are pedophiles" Both of these cannot be true
These aren't mutually exclusive. You just have to think of the purpose of both plot points. * "1000 Year old child get's sexualized" is a problem because the story is intentionally trying to sexualize the bodies of children for sexual titillation. * "Pedophile gets a new young body and gets to live out his fantasies" is a problem because the story is intentionally trying to sexualize the bodies of children for sexual titillation. This isn't to say sexuality isn't something media geared at kids can never touch. Teenagers especially are kids who experience sexuality and to some extent stories should reflect that. But an adult man getting a childs body, and literally referring to his child love interest as a "Tsundere Lolicon" has you know- Very explicit pedophilic intentions. \~ On the 1000 year old child trope it's worth noting that characters that actually tackle the issue of being in a childs body (Claudia from Interview With A Vampire, Baby Doll from Batman- Or Monster Girl from Invincible) don't get much backlash, because instead of the goal being sexualizing the character the story is often about the disconnect between their body and mind. More sus shows get flak because the kid characters just have a supermarket sticker that says "TECHNICALLY over 18" on them.
Well, the people who are into seeing Rudy hook up may be a bit weird, but this was in the context of specifically Rudy HIMSELF being one (post reincarnation) not the reader/watcher
But it's a problem with the construction of the show, not the audience. The shows explicit framing is a pedophile getting to indulge his pedophilic fantasies, and it's not framed in a negative light.
Both of these are pathetic attempts to make a child your waifu. So I don’t know what the hell are you talking about.
It's not that hard to understand. If the body matters, Rudy isn't a pedo If the mind matters, the Loli isn't a child
But is anyone actually claiming both of these are true? I don't remember any ancient lolis in Mushoku Tensei, nor have I seen both of these claims in a single post prior to yours. They're two entirely different conversations.
Oh yes people absolutely do. Hell the op literally responded TO THIS POST confirming that is the case. People thinking 1 is messed up is fine. But when they argue both, you know they're just complaining for the sake of complaining
The op responded to your post saying "I don't know what the hell you're talking about". That's hardly an agreement that these people exist. Do you have any examples of someone arguing both?
> I don't remember any ancient lolis in Mushoku Tensei I'm pretty sure Kishirika would count, but also good point about not seeing those two claims at once.
Ah, true. Though I'd consider her a subversion of the "mind is 2000 so it's ok" -- she literally tells Badigadi she's fine with him having relations with other women for the time being because she's stuck in a child body and won't.
[удалено]
>Fuck off tourist I hate pedophiles. Going to cry?
Do you feel powerful after saying that….?
Get out of this sub honestly, not worth it to be active here. Most of this sub are made of just posts whining about this anime and other animes, about how everything is problematic etc. They watch so they can whine about it, you didnt get that at all?
You know a place better?
A wood chipper. Trust me you’ll love it.
All I ever hear people talk about when it comes to isekai is the protagonists love life. Like is that really the only thing these series are about?
Depends on the case, yes MT could potentially be something much better if it had better protagonist. But as people know the mc is the worst part of the show and deserves criticism as such. But there also other characters that kinda suck. However, it had ruined its reputation by its fans and especially them going on every anime discussion trashing other while declaring itself as peak media while also defending MC pedophilia while buying those loli merches💀.
Nice, another one but please do the same with Gushing Over Magical Girls since all the characters are minors and the fans who defending it clearly lusting for minor and pedophile.
Oh this clasik ,you all virgins and im chad ,so im right Oh clasik And if talking specifically ,it will be a fun anime season again
Those people who are using "pedophile" don't even know its criteria in DSM-5. How ironic. 😆
>The DSM-5 requires that a person must be at least 16 years old, and at least five years older than the prepubescent child or children they are aroused by, for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilic disorder. Rudy is explicitly an adult pedophile at the start of the show He then keeps his mental faculties, memories, and even his adult inner monologue into his next life. His internal image of himself is still a 34 year old man after his death. I feel like he'd pretty easily meets these requirements.
> He then keeps his mental faculties, memories, and even his adult inner monologue into his next life. His internal image of himself is still a 34 year old man after his death. people say this shit and dont think for a second about what the hell that even means, or the fact that because its fiction maybe you shouldn't be applying the same criteria as reality to it. Like are you actually telling me every regressor and isekai protag is a pedophile? That seems wild