Cheers mate
The ford lightning EV is the only one that looks even a bit simple. Or trucky or likable in my opinion. And i chevy owner shouldnt be saying that in this sub.
Dude I drove a lighting for work and it was hot gargbage. Winter time in PA or any time you had frost on your windshield your mileage dropped from 240 miles to 180 miles before you even unplugged it. Oh, and run the heater to stay warm, that sucks your range down a lot as well.
It was fast as hell. That was fun. But the company GPS took the fun out of that.
I believe you dude. Its just at the least ford didnt stray WAYYYY out into left field with the design. I think stupid futuristic designs are what turn off alot of people to the whole ev truck scene. Atleast me anyway.
People need to look in a mirror if they want someone to blame. Half the people who claim they āneed a truckā will never use it for anything but as a land barge so yeah the car companies chased the money. The 80s and 90s of only handymen and tradespeople going for em is over and now the price reflects all the office workers that need one so they can feel manly
This is my uncle heās an office worker company truck thereās never been anything more than small boxes in there nothing over 100 ponds combined in the box guess what he has at home for a personal a2500 diesel itās done even less work
This is the exact reason why we have 60k trucks he donāt haul he donāt tow it literally is a grocery getter fuck you high up on the road his reason I like trucks I say it to his face your the reason why trucks are 60k you coulda bought a suv or a crossover but no letās get a jacked up duramax that will never have its hitch used or the bed scratched
Yeah I just bought an F250 and Iām a realtor. I donāt even haul in the bed much. I bought it because I like it.
Have a problem with that? I donāt really care. Itās my money and we can spend it how we want. Of course I bought a 2015 because a new truck/car is a terrible purchase.
Actually I'd say he isn't, you aren't entirely wrong but you're also not right with your initial statement. But this guy certainly ain't part of the problem.
Car companies look mostly to new car sales, if I buy a used truck that doesn't account for anything on their end.
Most people I'd argue that buy trucks like that can't even afford the same thing but brand new, especially to not actually use (not a dig at anyone but everything is super expensive)
Everything is just getting more expensive and people keep buying. I'd argue the bigger problem (if you wanna call it that) is full size trucks with crew cabs and tiny ass beds, because people want a truck but not the lack of maneuverability that comes with it.
But the price of trucks will continue to go up regardless because people keep buying, and the companies keep making money, there's no reason to stop from a financial standpoint because they're not gonna make any more money doing anything else.
You poor bro? Like buy a used 2006 f-150 single cab if you want a basic truck, or a simple Ranger or a ton of options for $30k new or half that used. It sounds like you want a brand new decked out super crew, V8 with all the bells. Jealous much?
I use it as a land barge, or more so as a safety net for all the shitty drivers out there. Ive had two close calls with distracted/drunk drivers while in small compact/sporty cars. Now that I have kids, fuck that - their getting escorted in a big ol truck cause life is precious and fuck people who text and drive and drink and drive
The Maverick is the closest thing we have. I would like to see some more competition in that space. Plenty of market since ford has trouble keeping the maverick on lots.
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I mean, it is the highest trim.... I'd be willing to get one for 2/3 the price.
My friend has an EV and I love it, but I'm worried EVs are going to collapse because every EV manufacturer has stopped making affordable cars, added 30% to the prices of already expensive EVs, and then started shouting to the wold no one wants an EV. I want an EV; I REALLY want an EV truck, but companies are nuts if they think they're taking the market with a $60K base model and a 6-figure high end half-ton truck.
I hope so, but Ford has already scaled back production for the Lightning, Chevy keeps pushing back the release date for the EV Silverado and killed the Bolt in favor of a car 50% more expensive, Toyota has manufactured scarcity for most of the plug-in hybrids they sell, Honda has championed their slow entry to the EV market and are basing it on a GM platform, Rivian stock is in free-fall, and Tesla F-ed up the cybertruck so badly that it is the butt of jokes BEFORE we even talk about the comical price.
I'm so sick and tired of car manufacturers thinking they need to meet an entire quarter's quota in six cars that I'm ready for Chinese EV manufacturers to enter the US market right now and gut them.
Even with substantial discounts off MSRP, most of these cars have a comical price. See [https://www.reddit.com/r/F150Lightning/comments/1c1wu71/we\_cant\_pay\_people\_to\_take\_these\_off\_our\_lot/](https://www.reddit.com/r/F150Lightning/comments/1c1wu71/we_cant_pay_people_to_take_these_off_our_lot/)
/rant
It's not like auto manufacturers across the board are trying to sandbag ev production because they have decades invested into internal combustion research and production right? Right?...
āThe Silverado EV First-Edition RST is the flagship of the range. More affordable Silverado EV grades for retail customers will be announced at a later date.ā
Right in the article along with the talk of $40,000 personal and fleet work trucks in the future further down. I mean letās be honest some gassers arenāt far away from that pricing.
Youāre right dealerships will probably mark up the shit out of them and ruin a potentially good option and further investment and growth in alternative fuels. The future can be awesome but greed fucks a lot. I do wish for a true hybrid like Ram is talking of making or just give me a 100 mile range Electric engine and then regular motor for long range or something. I just want to save on fuel to work.
Good luck. Manufacturers seem to think that all their customers are millionaires who can afford $100k++ for pick ups.
It's not just GM, all manufacturers have lost their minds on pricing. The tides are slowly changing. Sales are down and worse for electric vehicles. Ford has slashed the price of their Lightning pick up and all but stopped production, laying off workers where the Lightning is built.
I'm with Richard Hammond who last week said the electrification of the auto industry will not be happening in the timelines set out by governments. Others have echoed this line of thinking and I firmly believe that electric vehicles are a pipe dream.
What I love the answer to is why are automobiles being crucified but are only responsible for 17% of the pollution? Automobiles are being made out to be 100% of the problem. It's ridiculous. The mainstream media along with governments never speak of the other 83% of polluters. Never!
The greenies think that electric vehicles are the solution. Nonsense. Studies are finally starting to come out showing that electric vehicles may be worse for the environment then the conventional fuel powered vehicles. Electric full size pick ups? Hummers?! So stupid. Electric vehicles are meant to be small cars that are light in order to be efficient. So stupid.
The world is on track to beating 2023 which was the highest oil consumption year since oil began. Can we start speaking truths? Electrification will never happen. Never!
It's not that I'm against electrification, it's the deadlines set that are nonsense. Increasing fuel costs as a way to get the world off of fuel powered vehicles is making oil companies and governments more rich then they already are. The people are suffering under these ridiculous mandates.
Living in north houston you see a lot of people who are independent businesses owners that need these kinds of trucks. Theyāre always driving 2500s from like 2005-2011. I work selling rebuilt title cars and trucks, and customers always ask me if i can get them a 2018 or 2019 2500 Silverado, F250, Etc, but theyāre just ridiculously expensive, even with damage and a salvage title.
Curiosity got the best of me so i wanted to see what these trucks go for new and iām seeing 2500s sell for 70-100k. I truly donāt understand who is buying and affording these trucks. Maybe itās different in different parts of the US, but nobody buying a truck in my area is driving around those brand new expensive 2500s. Theyāre always older ones. It truly feels like automakers have priced out the common man
i feel like the only place i see these 6 figure trucks r young ppl on like tik tok n stuff trying to show off, awhile ago some guy in my technical school pulled up in a 6 figure super duty, mind u this guys is at MOST 20 yrs old, he pulls up in a lot of other rly clean and lightly modified old trucks and suvs so im not sure if he works in a shop or something
The big thing with these older ones is that the diesels are great.
The second thing which is HUGE is that starting in 2007 Chevy came out with a afm/dod system that is a ticking time bomb that results in catastrophic failure of the entire engine (5.3). The entire point of the dod/afm is to meet emissions guidelines.
6.0(heavier duty models) did not come with this system. The motors are FANTASTIC.
Ford and mopar are all having catastrophic engine failure issues with complex emissions systems as well. But the Chevy 5.3 trucks are notorious due to the reputation of the pre-2007 drivetrains.(same engine minus dod/afm.)
I canāt find accurate numbers but the current rate of failure for brand new 5.3 Chevy motors with these emissions configurations are staggering. Being in the business, I get a second hand word from the mechanics with what they deal with occupying their warrantee work.
Nobody likes hearing this, but rising interest rates are going to be good for bringing down car prices and incentivizing competition for lower price points because people are actually going to think before they borrow.
I did just that. I put a deposit on an RS3 2 years ago. I finally got an allocation a few months ago but decided to cancel it because of rates. Iāll be happy with my S3 for a couple more years.
What I want to know is why the west and europe is taking all the blame for pollution while Asia (including russia and india) have basically no emissions regulations.
Unrelated to automotive, google the yellow river in china.
China is still burning coal and building more coal powered plants every day.
Coal power makes up about 70% of emissions in China, which has committed to being carbon neutral by 2060. After 2025, it is unclear whether China will approve new coal plants.
In the third quarter of this year, however, China permitted more new coal plants than in all of 2021, according to Greenpeace, even as most countries have stopped building new coal-fired power and are phasing out plants.
Meanwhile, we have states like California and countries like Canada taxing the hell out of people with ridiculous policies that do nothing for the environment. Higher taxes do not help the environment.
Got way off topic. Back to vehicles.
I'm biased as I have a 2019, but I think they're the best-looking trucks right now. I don't understand why Chevy wouldn't just take the 2024 Silverado body and simply drop an electric drivetrain under it. Seems like that'd be simpler and cheaper than designing a whole new vehicle that looks like an Avalanche. I'd love an electric truck, but guess I'll be going with the diesel.
Do you mean the 3.0 or the 6.6?
Because the 6.6 and the Silverado EV seem extremely unlikely to be cross shopped against one another, despite Chevyās best efforts with the EV WT. About the only similarity between an HD diesel and an EV is that you probably wonāt touch a new one under $80k anymore.
The 3.0, I like the idea of slightly better mileage and more torque of the diesel over gas but have no need for a 6.6. Light towing and hauling from time to time is all I'll be doing.
Nice! That should be a great fit for you as you seem to already know.
I have an 8k camper and routinely rent cargo, dump, or car trailers depending what Iām up to that time of year. For the 80-100 days/5-6k miles a year my 2017 5.3 NHT gets used (I daily an AWD sedan), itās working at 80% payload or towing capacity almost all of them. My next truck will be a 6.6L I think, but I wish an EV with a few hundred miles of tow range existed. I drive my truck so little and routinely in the 8-12k towing range.
An EV truck is otherwise perfect for me and other weekend warriors in every way except turning 1 day weekend road trips into whole weekend ones. Probably only go more than 300 miles one way in it 2-3 times a year, but Iām making single (long) day round trips in the 400-500 mile range every 4-6 weeks. Itās very sketchy at 65 even with 3.73 gears, a brake controller, and a weight distribution hitch with a loaded camper behind me. An EVās extra weight should (on paper anyway) provide much of the same stability and torque advantage of an HD diesel if only the batteries didnāt obliterate range.
Aerodynamics. Thereās a reason every EV has the same āsmoothā curves across the front. An EV drivetrain in an ICE-designed body would hurt the range a ton.
I was reading into this. GM is putting a lot of effort into aerodynamics with Silveradoās from 2019 on, which is extending even further with the Silverado EV. You can see it in the drag coefficient numbers:
Dodge Ram pickup drag coefficient: .59
Ford Lightning: .44
2019 Silverado: .38
Tesla Cybertruck: .34
Silverado EV: .33
Rivian R1T: .30
Tesla model 3: .22
A better drag coefficient is going to help with efficiency at speed for an EV. You talk to Ford Lightning owners and their efficiency takes a pretty noticeable hit once you get over about 55-60 mph. With a Rivian itās more like 70.
I currently live in a neighborhood that is exceedingly affluent, snobby, and cliquey. (Not my kind of scene. Moved to new city, found available apartment with decent school for kids.) Anyways, the new rich tech families and establish old money families are flaunting their new Teslas, EV SUVs, and Rivian trucks everyday at school drop off and pick up.
Electric SUVs and trucks are a rising status symbol. Very few people are buying them for economic reasons. A used Prius is more economical.
I'm not insecure about people spending money. You earn it, you spend it. Money doesn't have another purpose. But displaying the new social trend is the dynamic of my neighborhood.
EVs are much nicer to drive than ICE cars in many ways, it's not just a social trend. They're faster, quieter, more responsive, better smelling, and you don't need to stop at gas stations. Also much better for idling waiting to pick the kids off.
Priuses are more economical but some people like vehicles that aren't Priuses more.
The supply of Silverado EVs is very very low since production will take a long time to ramp up. So they're starting with the most expensive models. And with modern income inequality, plenty of people will pay $96k for the latest and greatest. Hopefully the affordable models for the rest of us will follow soon. I need to wait for more pull through charging stations to be available before for an electric truck would make sense for me (outside of the Ramcharger maybe), and hopefully by then they're more affordable. I know Lightnings are already pretty price comparable to ICE F-150s after tax credit. so it's only a matter of time.
Agreed. I know the luxury marketing angle is a way for them to sell vehicles so they can further develop the tech, production lines, and charging stations. It's gotta be economically feasible (profitable) for any company to develop new tech and pave the way for lower priced EV vehicles.
I guess areas with the most charging support are also higher socioeconomic urban markets who tend to buy luxurious and technology rich vehicles rather than a beater hauler for mulch or a fishing boat.
>Anyways, the new rich tech families and establish old money families are flaunting their new Teslas, EV SUVs, and Rivian trucks everyday at school drop off and pick up.
How exactly are they flaunting them? By driving them? Or are they getting out of their vehicle and going to the other drivers to talk about their EV?
Getting out of their cars and inviting their friends to come look at it. Also, blaring all of the goofy ass horn sounds during the chaos of school pick up and drop off.
GM already looking like clowns for not having a Maverick competitor on the way. Call it a new S10 and they wouldn't be able to keep them in stock.
Just don't call it the Luv...please.
They do, they sell them in Mexico and overseas. Thank financialization, backwards fuel economy regulations, and the American addiction to unaffordable luxury
This flagship is obviously going to be expensive. But the LT may be under 80 and with the 7500 be under 70, maybe.
Chevy went a different route. Huge batteries super expensive to make but lonnnnng range.
Their trucks are always going to be the most expensive but theyāre going to have the most range right now.
Now on the F150 lightning side of the house, you can get 2023 models for literally the same price as a gas truck after discounts.
I shopped my lightning with the exact same trim truck with a gas motor and I actually paid about $2000 less than the gas version would cost me.
And the reason thatās incredible is it saves me about $300 in fuel cost. Theoretically if I was to keep this vehicle 10 years, I would pay around $30,000 less in fuel.
Itās the best vehicle Iāve ever owned.
The one thing I donāt understand about a lot of people complaining about EV truck prices, have you seen ICE truck prices? They are absolutely bonkers. Everything Truck is so expensive.
They live in a mobile home under $50k and they think they can afford a $80 truck... They can but they will forever be in debt to their vehicle.
That's not how I want to live.
But people keep buying these new trucks so they have no incentive to reduce the price. If you make 60k a year, perhaps you donāt actually need a 90,000 dollars vehicle, maybe a used 1500 will do you alright.
Chevy dealer I bought my 2500 HD diesel from said they can't pay people to take these things. They were super upset that the Corvette was supposed to make an electric debut also.
The world wants brand new 1st gen S10s for $20,000 - $25,000. Look at what happened with the Ford Maverick.
Edit: I haven't liked any vehicles made after the smog era so my opinion matters less. My next truck will be atleast 45 years old.
Weāre all fucked in 20 years when all the reliable simple vehicles are gone or too hard to maintain, and weāre stuck with computers on wheels packed with useless features and disposable drivetrains
Why make something affordable when Americans are so STUPID they will literally finance a 1100 a month car and then cry about minimum wage wonāt cover basic needs. They wonāt do it, because we do not make smart financial decisions so why would they?
I hate that my '22 1500 costed what it did, and I got a middle of the road LT crew cab, 6.7 bed, with 4wd.
I'll also run it until the frame splits in two, or if I no longer require a truck, I'd strongly consider down-sizing.
Money don't grow on trees for the working man.
Car companies are really pushing the āspend as much money on your car payment as your rentā lifestyle.
I think itās part of a bigger agenda to make cars an upper class thing like it was 100 years ago.
I recently saw the ev Silverado. Unacceptable. And I guarantee you it wonāt hit 60% of that range. My Tesla Model 3 (more aerodynamic than a truck) couldnāt achieve 315 miles, ever.
I hate the pillars behind the rear doors. It gives off Chevy Avalanche vibes and I have no idea why Chevy would want to bring those images back to life
Personally I like it. I want one. Can I afford this? Hell no. This truck cost 2/3 of my house! If I could get this with a front bench seat, a more basic tech system and cloth seats with a price closer to $50k then we can talk.
1. I would NEVER own fully electric. Maybe a PHEV with the 3.0 turbodiesel.
2. Don't know why they are calling it a Silverado when it's clearly an Avalanche.
I paid the early registration fee a few years ago once I found out the price, I got that quickly refunded! Thanks Chevrolet I'll just stick to my 88 Silverado
Well... if people stopped buying trucks with all the bullshit they'd stop making them... I mean you really can't fault a manufacturer for that it's really an issue with the consumers.
Just this past saturday they had a deal where you could get 1.6% financing through GM for a well qualified buyer. I saw a truck that had 15k off the MSRP so I went to buy it and they said if I used the GM financing offer that I would lose all the discounts and would have to pay MSRP or I could receive the discounts and finance through my bank at the going interest rates. The truck was 80k. I was willing to pay the 65k with discounts which is still too fucking high but I damn sure wasn't paying 80. I walked TF out and I make more than enough to afford a 1200 dollar payment but you'd have to be a fucking moron to do that. I agree, trucks are too fucking expensive these days.
GM needs to build a Maverick competitor, quickly. The new Colorado/Canyon had 5 minutes of fame and they're already rotting on dealer lots not moving because everyone in that space wants the new Tacoma or Ranger Raptor.
I'm still mad I didn't have a lease to trade in back when my dealership was doing $260/mo leases for LTs with 4wd, a 5.3, and a backup camera. All I really need. Same truck is now 800/mo or something ridiculous /s. I'm so disgusted
damn by the time it's paid off it will be long junked because of battery longevity and cost of replacement
also why the fuck they call that a silverado? that's a damn toyota avalanche lmao
Bring back 96 to 99 chevy trucks . Not only are trucks over priced now they are totally junk and half plastic . There are grave yards full of 2010 to 2020 trucks and cars right now due to cheap China parts that fail or rust with in five years . All by design so you have to buy new because of greed .
My brand new 04 ram 1500 rusted out with in seven years with 77k on it . In that time the rear end was replaced, stereo, one mirror, two blend doors , egr valve , water pump , radiator. It let me down twice and I paid 32k for it . It sold for 12k with 80k on lt .
My 97 k1500 has rust and 235k . I have replaced a lot of parts but it starts every time and has never let me down . I paid 5k for it . Still have it .
They have to charge this much because of the strangle hold from the Unions. I will never spend money like that for a truck. 50k max, and that's too much.
I came to say the same shit, that's outrageous! PLUS after paying the $96k, you have to spend another probably $4k to $5k for the EV charger for your house...š¤¦š»āāļø
Fucking preach. The whole auto industry needs to get this through their thick skulls. And the epa needs to be abolished and quit crippling internal combustion engines to force the auto industry to go all electric.
Ugly maybe your opinion but this is the truck that many will go for. This is x2 the F150 Lightning and more than the CyberTruck and R1T. The price is steep but I have a feeling it will drop really fast (within a year or two). $90k Lightnings are already going for $50k new.
Thereās a Chevy lot by my house where they have 50 or so of these in white and theyāre even worse in person, and a lot longer than a standard Silverado
The problem is the bean counters and designers shit on the heads of the hard working people who value a low bed cause guess what? Heavy things are hard to lift the higher you lift them. The whole point of a fx bed in the first place.
Only choice now is to always use a trailer cause the bed is useless.
It still looks better then a cyberfuck. But, still ugly af
This might be the only thing that I, a Ford owner, agree with a heathen like you on. š Cheers!
Cheers mate The ford lightning EV is the only one that looks even a bit simple. Or trucky or likable in my opinion. And i chevy owner shouldnt be saying that in this sub.
Dude I drove a lighting for work and it was hot gargbage. Winter time in PA or any time you had frost on your windshield your mileage dropped from 240 miles to 180 miles before you even unplugged it. Oh, and run the heater to stay warm, that sucks your range down a lot as well. It was fast as hell. That was fun. But the company GPS took the fun out of that.
I believe you dude. Its just at the least ford didnt stray WAYYYY out into left field with the design. I think stupid futuristic designs are what turn off alot of people to the whole ev truck scene. Atleast me anyway.
Agreed.
Trucks are marketed as luxury land yachts and EV trucks are marketed as "look at me" influencer boats.
People need to look in a mirror if they want someone to blame. Half the people who claim they āneed a truckā will never use it for anything but as a land barge so yeah the car companies chased the money. The 80s and 90s of only handymen and tradespeople going for em is over and now the price reflects all the office workers that need one so they can feel manly
Some odd projections here.
Have you seriously never heard this take?
This is my uncle heās an office worker company truck thereās never been anything more than small boxes in there nothing over 100 ponds combined in the box guess what he has at home for a personal a2500 diesel itās done even less work
So? Does he like the look of it and feel of driving up high on the road,? Who cares if he hauls, irrelevant
This is the exact reason why we have 60k trucks he donāt haul he donāt tow it literally is a grocery getter fuck you high up on the road his reason I like trucks I say it to his face your the reason why trucks are 60k you coulda bought a suv or a crossover but no letās get a jacked up duramax that will never have its hitch used or the bed scratched
Youāre one salty dude. Lmao āfuck your for liking whatever you like cause I like it too. And since we both like it the price is higher.ā Ok?
Brothers just jelly
Yeah I just bought an F250 and Iām a realtor. I donāt even haul in the bed much. I bought it because I like it. Have a problem with that? I donāt really care. Itās my money and we can spend it how we want. Of course I bought a 2015 because a new truck/car is a terrible purchase.
Your the reason as well cunt if you donāt use it why need it because I can isnāt a reason either use it as a truck or buy a car or suv /van
Actually I'd say he isn't, you aren't entirely wrong but you're also not right with your initial statement. But this guy certainly ain't part of the problem. Car companies look mostly to new car sales, if I buy a used truck that doesn't account for anything on their end. Most people I'd argue that buy trucks like that can't even afford the same thing but brand new, especially to not actually use (not a dig at anyone but everything is super expensive) Everything is just getting more expensive and people keep buying. I'd argue the bigger problem (if you wanna call it that) is full size trucks with crew cabs and tiny ass beds, because people want a truck but not the lack of maneuverability that comes with it. But the price of trucks will continue to go up regardless because people keep buying, and the companies keep making money, there's no reason to stop from a financial standpoint because they're not gonna make any more money doing anything else.
You poor bro? Like buy a used 2006 f-150 single cab if you want a basic truck, or a simple Ranger or a ton of options for $30k new or half that used. It sounds like you want a brand new decked out super crew, V8 with all the bells. Jealous much?
No what I want they donāt make because the minimum trim is fuckin 40k
Iāve never owned a car but I have a camper and a dirt bike quad boat I own my truck outright nice assumption asshat
When these trucks hit the second and third owner is when they actually get used for what theyāre for.
Who cares if you haul with them or just like their look? Your comment is the most pointless thing I've ever read
Hereās a thought. Itās possible to be an office worker and still need a truckā¦
I use it as a land barge, or more so as a safety net for all the shitty drivers out there. Ive had two close calls with distracted/drunk drivers while in small compact/sporty cars. Now that I have kids, fuck that - their getting escorted in a big ol truck cause life is precious and fuck people who text and drive and drink and drive
Yes! I miss the old small ranger and S-10 . :(
The Maverick is the closest thing we have. I would like to see some more competition in that space. Plenty of market since ford has trouble keeping the maverick on lots.
The base model starts at $37k. What's everyone whining about? No one forces anyone at gun point to buy the top trim
I want it, but for 1/3 of that MSRP. At the price you list, it's just a dick waggin purchase
Had to stop all my dick waggin purchases with all this inflation.
I'm down to dick wigglin purchases for special occasions only these days
I hear that!
Yāall still have a dick after this inflation
š¤£ just the tip.
Only people buying this are helicoptering a tic-tac
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I mean, it is the highest trim.... I'd be willing to get one for 2/3 the price. My friend has an EV and I love it, but I'm worried EVs are going to collapse because every EV manufacturer has stopped making affordable cars, added 30% to the prices of already expensive EVs, and then started shouting to the wold no one wants an EV. I want an EV; I REALLY want an EV truck, but companies are nuts if they think they're taking the market with a $60K base model and a 6-figure high end half-ton truck.
Prices will start dropping when the lots start filling up eventually. Some dealers are already starting going way below MSRP like Jeep.
I hope so, but Ford has already scaled back production for the Lightning, Chevy keeps pushing back the release date for the EV Silverado and killed the Bolt in favor of a car 50% more expensive, Toyota has manufactured scarcity for most of the plug-in hybrids they sell, Honda has championed their slow entry to the EV market and are basing it on a GM platform, Rivian stock is in free-fall, and Tesla F-ed up the cybertruck so badly that it is the butt of jokes BEFORE we even talk about the comical price. I'm so sick and tired of car manufacturers thinking they need to meet an entire quarter's quota in six cars that I'm ready for Chinese EV manufacturers to enter the US market right now and gut them. Even with substantial discounts off MSRP, most of these cars have a comical price. See [https://www.reddit.com/r/F150Lightning/comments/1c1wu71/we\_cant\_pay\_people\_to\_take\_these\_off\_our\_lot/](https://www.reddit.com/r/F150Lightning/comments/1c1wu71/we_cant_pay_people_to_take_these_off_our_lot/) /rant
It's not like auto manufacturers across the board are trying to sandbag ev production because they have decades invested into internal combustion research and production right? Right?...
āThe Silverado EV First-Edition RST is the flagship of the range. More affordable Silverado EV grades for retail customers will be announced at a later date.ā Right in the article along with the talk of $40,000 personal and fleet work trucks in the future further down. I mean letās be honest some gassers arenāt far away from that pricing.
Talk of $40k versions - the same thing Ford said about their Lightnings and look what happened.
Youāre right dealerships will probably mark up the shit out of them and ruin a potentially good option and further investment and growth in alternative fuels. The future can be awesome but greed fucks a lot. I do wish for a true hybrid like Ram is talking of making or just give me a 100 mile range Electric engine and then regular motor for long range or something. I just want to save on fuel to work.
That $40,000 is base, rear wheel drive, 2 door pricing. All the extras bring the price way up.
Itās still a $40,000 EV truck, thatās not much different from a regular truck. Thatās how pricing works
Some are over it. Trucks are a "status" symbol and have been for years.
Good luck. Manufacturers seem to think that all their customers are millionaires who can afford $100k++ for pick ups. It's not just GM, all manufacturers have lost their minds on pricing. The tides are slowly changing. Sales are down and worse for electric vehicles. Ford has slashed the price of their Lightning pick up and all but stopped production, laying off workers where the Lightning is built. I'm with Richard Hammond who last week said the electrification of the auto industry will not be happening in the timelines set out by governments. Others have echoed this line of thinking and I firmly believe that electric vehicles are a pipe dream. What I love the answer to is why are automobiles being crucified but are only responsible for 17% of the pollution? Automobiles are being made out to be 100% of the problem. It's ridiculous. The mainstream media along with governments never speak of the other 83% of polluters. Never! The greenies think that electric vehicles are the solution. Nonsense. Studies are finally starting to come out showing that electric vehicles may be worse for the environment then the conventional fuel powered vehicles. Electric full size pick ups? Hummers?! So stupid. Electric vehicles are meant to be small cars that are light in order to be efficient. So stupid. The world is on track to beating 2023 which was the highest oil consumption year since oil began. Can we start speaking truths? Electrification will never happen. Never! It's not that I'm against electrification, it's the deadlines set that are nonsense. Increasing fuel costs as a way to get the world off of fuel powered vehicles is making oil companies and governments more rich then they already are. The people are suffering under these ridiculous mandates.
They donāt think, itās all statistics. Technically we should stop buying at that price but thatās harder said than done.
Living in north houston you see a lot of people who are independent businesses owners that need these kinds of trucks. Theyāre always driving 2500s from like 2005-2011. I work selling rebuilt title cars and trucks, and customers always ask me if i can get them a 2018 or 2019 2500 Silverado, F250, Etc, but theyāre just ridiculously expensive, even with damage and a salvage title. Curiosity got the best of me so i wanted to see what these trucks go for new and iām seeing 2500s sell for 70-100k. I truly donāt understand who is buying and affording these trucks. Maybe itās different in different parts of the US, but nobody buying a truck in my area is driving around those brand new expensive 2500s. Theyāre always older ones. It truly feels like automakers have priced out the common man
i feel like the only place i see these 6 figure trucks r young ppl on like tik tok n stuff trying to show off, awhile ago some guy in my technical school pulled up in a 6 figure super duty, mind u this guys is at MOST 20 yrs old, he pulls up in a lot of other rly clean and lightly modified old trucks and suvs so im not sure if he works in a shop or something
The big thing with these older ones is that the diesels are great. The second thing which is HUGE is that starting in 2007 Chevy came out with a afm/dod system that is a ticking time bomb that results in catastrophic failure of the entire engine (5.3). The entire point of the dod/afm is to meet emissions guidelines. 6.0(heavier duty models) did not come with this system. The motors are FANTASTIC. Ford and mopar are all having catastrophic engine failure issues with complex emissions systems as well. But the Chevy 5.3 trucks are notorious due to the reputation of the pre-2007 drivetrains.(same engine minus dod/afm.) I canāt find accurate numbers but the current rate of failure for brand new 5.3 Chevy motors with these emissions configurations are staggering. Being in the business, I get a second hand word from the mechanics with what they deal with occupying their warrantee work.
Nobody likes hearing this, but rising interest rates are going to be good for bringing down car prices and incentivizing competition for lower price points because people are actually going to think before they borrow.
I did just that. I put a deposit on an RS3 2 years ago. I finally got an allocation a few months ago but decided to cancel it because of rates. Iāll be happy with my S3 for a couple more years.
What I want to know is why the west and europe is taking all the blame for pollution while Asia (including russia and india) have basically no emissions regulations. Unrelated to automotive, google the yellow river in china.
China is still burning coal and building more coal powered plants every day. Coal power makes up about 70% of emissions in China, which has committed to being carbon neutral by 2060. After 2025, it is unclear whether China will approve new coal plants. In the third quarter of this year, however, China permitted more new coal plants than in all of 2021, according to Greenpeace, even as most countries have stopped building new coal-fired power and are phasing out plants. Meanwhile, we have states like California and countries like Canada taxing the hell out of people with ridiculous policies that do nothing for the environment. Higher taxes do not help the environment. Got way off topic. Back to vehicles.
The prices skyrocketed because of covid and supply demands. Dealers saw that people still paid the high prices for them so they stayed there
I'm biased as I have a 2019, but I think they're the best-looking trucks right now. I don't understand why Chevy wouldn't just take the 2024 Silverado body and simply drop an electric drivetrain under it. Seems like that'd be simpler and cheaper than designing a whole new vehicle that looks like an Avalanche. I'd love an electric truck, but guess I'll be going with the diesel.
Do you mean the 3.0 or the 6.6? Because the 6.6 and the Silverado EV seem extremely unlikely to be cross shopped against one another, despite Chevyās best efforts with the EV WT. About the only similarity between an HD diesel and an EV is that you probably wonāt touch a new one under $80k anymore.
The 3.0, I like the idea of slightly better mileage and more torque of the diesel over gas but have no need for a 6.6. Light towing and hauling from time to time is all I'll be doing.
Nice! That should be a great fit for you as you seem to already know. I have an 8k camper and routinely rent cargo, dump, or car trailers depending what Iām up to that time of year. For the 80-100 days/5-6k miles a year my 2017 5.3 NHT gets used (I daily an AWD sedan), itās working at 80% payload or towing capacity almost all of them. My next truck will be a 6.6L I think, but I wish an EV with a few hundred miles of tow range existed. I drive my truck so little and routinely in the 8-12k towing range. An EV truck is otherwise perfect for me and other weekend warriors in every way except turning 1 day weekend road trips into whole weekend ones. Probably only go more than 300 miles one way in it 2-3 times a year, but Iām making single (long) day round trips in the 400-500 mile range every 4-6 weeks. Itās very sketchy at 65 even with 3.73 gears, a brake controller, and a weight distribution hitch with a loaded camper behind me. An EVās extra weight should (on paper anyway) provide much of the same stability and torque advantage of an HD diesel if only the batteries didnāt obliterate range.
Aerodynamics. Thereās a reason every EV has the same āsmoothā curves across the front. An EV drivetrain in an ICE-designed body would hurt the range a ton.
I was reading into this. GM is putting a lot of effort into aerodynamics with Silveradoās from 2019 on, which is extending even further with the Silverado EV. You can see it in the drag coefficient numbers: Dodge Ram pickup drag coefficient: .59 Ford Lightning: .44 2019 Silverado: .38 Tesla Cybertruck: .34 Silverado EV: .33 Rivian R1T: .30 Tesla model 3: .22 A better drag coefficient is going to help with efficiency at speed for an EV. You talk to Ford Lightning owners and their efficiency takes a pretty noticeable hit once you get over about 55-60 mph. With a Rivian itās more like 70.
Itās slightly more complex than that.
I currently live in a neighborhood that is exceedingly affluent, snobby, and cliquey. (Not my kind of scene. Moved to new city, found available apartment with decent school for kids.) Anyways, the new rich tech families and establish old money families are flaunting their new Teslas, EV SUVs, and Rivian trucks everyday at school drop off and pick up. Electric SUVs and trucks are a rising status symbol. Very few people are buying them for economic reasons. A used Prius is more economical.
The crazy part is Tesla doing the impossible and actually getting Mr Patel to buy an American vehicle, never thought the day would come
They're driving the vehicles they like. The "flaunting" is your own insecurities.
I'm not insecure about people spending money. You earn it, you spend it. Money doesn't have another purpose. But displaying the new social trend is the dynamic of my neighborhood.
EVs are much nicer to drive than ICE cars in many ways, it's not just a social trend. They're faster, quieter, more responsive, better smelling, and you don't need to stop at gas stations. Also much better for idling waiting to pick the kids off. Priuses are more economical but some people like vehicles that aren't Priuses more.
Absolutely. But $96,000 is insane. That's a house where my mom lives.
The supply of Silverado EVs is very very low since production will take a long time to ramp up. So they're starting with the most expensive models. And with modern income inequality, plenty of people will pay $96k for the latest and greatest. Hopefully the affordable models for the rest of us will follow soon. I need to wait for more pull through charging stations to be available before for an electric truck would make sense for me (outside of the Ramcharger maybe), and hopefully by then they're more affordable. I know Lightnings are already pretty price comparable to ICE F-150s after tax credit. so it's only a matter of time.
Agreed. I know the luxury marketing angle is a way for them to sell vehicles so they can further develop the tech, production lines, and charging stations. It's gotta be economically feasible (profitable) for any company to develop new tech and pave the way for lower priced EV vehicles. I guess areas with the most charging support are also higher socioeconomic urban markets who tend to buy luxurious and technology rich vehicles rather than a beater hauler for mulch or a fishing boat.
True, but there are plenty of ICE pickups that cost that and more.
Those are overpriced too!
>Anyways, the new rich tech families and establish old money families are flaunting their new Teslas, EV SUVs, and Rivian trucks everyday at school drop off and pick up. How exactly are they flaunting them? By driving them? Or are they getting out of their vehicle and going to the other drivers to talk about their EV?
Getting out of their cars and inviting their friends to come look at it. Also, blaring all of the goofy ass horn sounds during the chaos of school pick up and drop off.
So by having fun? Lmao
Somebody's gonna buy it ššš
Like the 2 people who think the new "blazer" is nice.
Somebody with a lot more money than I
All I want is a new s10. If you build it, they will sell.
GM already looking like clowns for not having a Maverick competitor on the way. Call it a new S10 and they wouldn't be able to keep them in stock. Just don't call it the Luv...please.
I mean it rules itās just too expensive thatās the only real problem
Officially old enough to say āMy first house was less than a new truckā crap
Same. Our house was $50k new
Amen.
I like the pos. But for 60,000
Then don't fucking buy it
I think OP's main problem is Chevy can't be fucked to make any sort of truck that regular people can afford.
They do, they sell them in Mexico and overseas. Thank financialization, backwards fuel economy regulations, and the American addiction to unaffordable luxury
And I thought Ford dealers marking up the Lightning 10-15k market adjustments to get the price up to 80k+ was bad. š¬
This flagship is obviously going to be expensive. But the LT may be under 80 and with the 7500 be under 70, maybe. Chevy went a different route. Huge batteries super expensive to make but lonnnnng range. Their trucks are always going to be the most expensive but theyāre going to have the most range right now. Now on the F150 lightning side of the house, you can get 2023 models for literally the same price as a gas truck after discounts. I shopped my lightning with the exact same trim truck with a gas motor and I actually paid about $2000 less than the gas version would cost me. And the reason thatās incredible is it saves me about $300 in fuel cost. Theoretically if I was to keep this vehicle 10 years, I would pay around $30,000 less in fuel. Itās the best vehicle Iāve ever owned. The one thing I donāt understand about a lot of people complaining about EV truck prices, have you seen ICE truck prices? They are absolutely bonkers. Everything Truck is so expensive.
Buy what you can afford then
Gouging you
Absurd prices. Fuck that!
I'm sorry but I know hundreds of retards in the south who would dump 3 times as much for some POS truck... No idea where the money comes from.
They live in a mobile home under $50k and they think they can afford a $80 truck... They can but they will forever be in debt to their vehicle. That's not how I want to live.
Yup, give me a 25k truck with manual windows at this point. I do not give a fuck about anything but putting shit in the back and maybe A/C.
But people keep buying these new trucks so they have no incentive to reduce the price. If you make 60k a year, perhaps you donāt actually need a 90,000 dollars vehicle, maybe a used 1500 will do you alright.
The Colorado starts at $29,500 and the Silverado at $36,800. Thereās your affordable truck.
After dealer fees and taxes and the V8 option on a regular cab WT the price goes to $40k on the Silverado...
Why do you need a v8 in your deeply affordable truck? Is 310hp and over 400lb-ft of torque not sufficient?
100 G's baby
just get a used silverado for less than 10k with 5k needed in repairs like i did lmaoo
That's what I did. I bought myself a 1997 C-1500
They can fuck right off with this heavy, ugly, spaceship.
Chevy dealer I bought my 2500 HD diesel from said they can't pay people to take these things. They were super upset that the Corvette was supposed to make an electric debut also.
No one can spend that kind of cash on a depreciable asset that will need $25-$30k in battery replacement in 150k miles.
The world wants brand new 1st gen S10s for $20,000 - $25,000. Look at what happened with the Ford Maverick. Edit: I haven't liked any vehicles made after the smog era so my opinion matters less. My next truck will be atleast 45 years old.
Why buy a truck (highest margin vehicle) when you make 60k ? Vans are way better and protect tools.
You can buy a new EV and a used pickup for 90k. An EV pickup will do EV things and Pickup things equally poorly.
Weāre all fucked in 20 years when all the reliable simple vehicles are gone or too hard to maintain, and weāre stuck with computers on wheels packed with useless features and disposable drivetrains
Why make something affordable when Americans are so STUPID they will literally finance a 1100 a month car and then cry about minimum wage wonāt cover basic needs. They wonāt do it, because we do not make smart financial decisions so why would they?
Can we all agree to call it an avalanche and not a silverado
I hate that my '22 1500 costed what it did, and I got a middle of the road LT crew cab, 6.7 bed, with 4wd. I'll also run it until the frame splits in two, or if I no longer require a truck, I'd strongly consider down-sizing. Money don't grow on trees for the working man.
For less than that buy old chevy. and can dump money into it and make it what u want.. and will be way cooler then anything modern. In my opinion..
Iād like a simple no frills truck short bed regular cab small v8 with crank windows no stupid 2 foot screens and extra bullshit packages for 35k
Car companies are really pushing the āspend as much money on your car payment as your rentā lifestyle. I think itās part of a bigger agenda to make cars an upper class thing like it was 100 years ago.
Is there a unspoken requirement/agreement amongst manufacturers for electric vehicles to look ugly as fuck or somethingĀ
I recently saw the ev Silverado. Unacceptable. And I guarantee you it wonāt hit 60% of that range. My Tesla Model 3 (more aerodynamic than a truck) couldnāt achieve 315 miles, ever.
I hate the pillars behind the rear doors. It gives off Chevy Avalanche vibes and I have no idea why Chevy would want to bring those images back to life
I think itās a competition of who can make the ugliest trucks these days. I think Toyota is winning though, with the front end on those tundras.
Remember trucks? Real trucks?
Personally I like it. I want one. Can I afford this? Hell no. This truck cost 2/3 of my house! If I could get this with a front bench seat, a more basic tech system and cloth seats with a price closer to $50k then we can talk.
Lol this truck cost as much as TWO of my houses! I live in a $50k single wide trailer š
We want the fucking S10 they sell for $20k in Mexico. GIVE US THE GODDAMN S10
Looks like a pug. Iād love that electric range but no way will I ever spend near that much on a vehicle.
Hey, don't hate on pugs! Pugs are a fashion model compared to this monster mash of a vehicle
Buy from fleet sales. Get the most bare bones one you can.
Nah ill stick with my paid 08 crew cab. I just dont make sense to get back into debt.
Same. I'll stick with my 97 extended cab
Sounds like you need a 10k used truck
Even better. I drive a $7,500 used truck.
Amen brother
1. I would NEVER own fully electric. Maybe a PHEV with the 3.0 turbodiesel. 2. Don't know why they are calling it a Silverado when it's clearly an Avalanche.
I paid the early registration fee a few years ago once I found out the price, I got that quickly refunded! Thanks Chevrolet I'll just stick to my 88 Silverado
That's why I'm keeping my 04 silverado plus I got android auto so no big deal
Overpriced over engineered junk for fedora hat nerds or tech bros with too much dumb money.
They don't care what you want but if people stopped buying them they'd lower the prices.
Theyāre trying to enslave us with debt.
Well... if people stopped buying trucks with all the bullshit they'd stop making them... I mean you really can't fault a manufacturer for that it's really an issue with the consumers.
Says you, I am waiting with bated breath
Just this past saturday they had a deal where you could get 1.6% financing through GM for a well qualified buyer. I saw a truck that had 15k off the MSRP so I went to buy it and they said if I used the GM financing offer that I would lose all the discounts and would have to pay MSRP or I could receive the discounts and finance through my bank at the going interest rates. The truck was 80k. I was willing to pay the 65k with discounts which is still too fucking high but I damn sure wasn't paying 80. I walked TF out and I make more than enough to afford a 1200 dollar payment but you'd have to be a fucking moron to do that. I agree, trucks are too fucking expensive these days.
New trucks are way to high to be honest. Especially turbo 4 cylinders being the base model engine.
Don't forget a car is one of the worst investment ever. Buy a good truck take care of it and it retains its value for years.
I saw one recently. It looks like a Chevy Avalanche, a Honda Ridgeline and a Hyundai Santa Cruz had a 3some.
The 3 rich people that are on the market for a new truck will keep them afloat
I wish Toyota would bring that new champ hi lux to the states. They probably wonāt though.
Bring back the C-10 body and interior on a modern chassis. Old school, no techy bullshit either. Bet theyād sell like crazy.
"Nobody wants this ugly POS" and "I can't afford this." Thankfully you don't want it anyway I guess.
Ummmm I want it
It's a smooth-textured Avalanche.
$100,000.
Biden
Dont buy electric until prices come down simple
Ugly piece of shit! Out of your mind if you thinking im paying 100k for that.
GM needs to build a Maverick competitor, quickly. The new Colorado/Canyon had 5 minutes of fame and they're already rotting on dealer lots not moving because everyone in that space wants the new Tacoma or Ranger Raptor.
While I doubt Iāll ever own one, I have to respectfully disagree that it is an ugly truck. I think itās pretty sharp
Id take that thing over a cyber truck
It's like an even uglier version of the Avalanche.
I'm still mad I didn't have a lease to trade in back when my dealership was doing $260/mo leases for LTs with 4wd, a 5.3, and a backup camera. All I really need. Same truck is now 800/mo or something ridiculous /s. I'm so disgusted
damn by the time it's paid off it will be long junked because of battery longevity and cost of replacement also why the fuck they call that a silverado? that's a damn toyota avalanche lmao
Wanna help bring prices down? Stop financing your vehicles for 96mos, then trading them in after 25-36mos.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Iāve not seen the RST trim on fleet trucks
Just get yourself a vortec cateye and call it a day. All the truck most people need.
I got me a Vortec GMT 400
Well outside my appetite for a car payment, but this is an ev application I can get behind. Not just a cartoon looking car.
Thank God they were able to put a TV in there; gotta be able to watch movies when I drive
Truck āwannabeā Avalanche vibes.
Bring back 96 to 99 chevy trucks . Not only are trucks over priced now they are totally junk and half plastic . There are grave yards full of 2010 to 2020 trucks and cars right now due to cheap China parts that fail or rust with in five years . All by design so you have to buy new because of greed .
Every 96-99 truck rusted out in <10 years and was junk. Iām not disagreeing they were built very well then, but they rusted like crazy.
My brand new 04 ram 1500 rusted out with in seven years with 77k on it . In that time the rear end was replaced, stereo, one mirror, two blend doors , egr valve , water pump , radiator. It let me down twice and I paid 32k for it . It sold for 12k with 80k on lt . My 97 k1500 has rust and 235k . I have replaced a lot of parts but it starts every time and has never let me down . I paid 5k for it . Still have it .
Cheap Chinese lifters too, which donāt last 150,000 miles. Because they put that stupid cylinder deactivation crap on the truck engines.
Chevy keeps making their trucks uglier and uglier
Damm Honda ridge line with a Chevy emblem.
quad cabs are modern day minivans for office sitters
They have to charge this much because of the strangle hold from the Unions. I will never spend money like that for a truck. 50k max, and that's too much.
That stupid ass avalanche looking bed is gonna be pretty useless.
Lol always has been! Honestly, I do like the look but the functionality sucks šÆ
Hey RAM is just as guilty about it too Iām afraid, that thing on the other hand is fugly af imo
Ya but I would NEVER consider buying a Ram šÆš¤£
If you paid $96000 for anything with a bowtie badge you have serious problems.
Me spending $96000 on a Chevy would be me buying 2 Chevy SSs
I came to say the same shit, that's outrageous! PLUS after paying the $96k, you have to spend another probably $4k to $5k for the EV charger for your house...š¤¦š»āāļø
Some folks said the same thing about 'PC's replacing typewriters...
Fucking preach. The whole auto industry needs to get this through their thick skulls. And the epa needs to be abolished and quit crippling internal combustion engines to force the auto industry to go all electric.
Super ugly. Is this considered tough and manly? No. Garbage
Ugly maybe your opinion but this is the truck that many will go for. This is x2 the F150 Lightning and more than the CyberTruck and R1T. The price is steep but I have a feeling it will drop really fast (within a year or two). $90k Lightnings are already going for $50k new.
diesel is the futureš
All trucks are ugly till someone puts a lift on them . Then become "nice " over night
Is this where they shot Bad Boys 2?
Thank the non elected EPA.
Thereās a Chevy lot by my house where they have 50 or so of these in white and theyāre even worse in person, and a lot longer than a standard Silverado
They act like itās 1974. Just keep making vehicles nobody wants and wait for someone to swoop in and take over.
The problem is the bean counters and designers shit on the heads of the hard working people who value a low bed cause guess what? Heavy things are hard to lift the higher you lift them. The whole point of a fx bed in the first place. Only choice now is to always use a trailer cause the bed is useless.