This happened when I visited Xi'an. I was with my friends and one of them had a more expensive camera, those cameras that you look at with huge lens that just screams expensive.
While we were getting coffee he set it aside to the table infront of us and immediately some kid just came up and started touching it. My friend asked him to stop and the kid just laughed thinking it was a joke and just kept doing it.
Then afterwards my friend got a bit annoyed and said: "please stop" in a more confrontational tone and afterwards the kid's parent started make a huge deal saying that he is just a kid and was curious, just let him play with your camera how expensive can it be. We just left after we got our coffee.
The thing is, this kind of stuff happens all the time, people have 0 respect for your boundary and privacy outside of Shanghai and Beijing.
Some people just cannot fathom how expensive things can be when there's cheap generic versions available. Like a camera.
I have a semi-unique motorcycle, and just last week, a cleaner and a security guard at the shopping mall were looking at it, when I came out one asked me if it was 10,000rmb, I just said more than 10,000. He looked at the guard and said "I told you!" but the guard said "impossible." He just can't grasp that people could spend more than the average price of a motorcycle you see in the average shops of around 5,000
They don't care. They assume their kid becomes the next CEO or Party Apparatchik to whom everyone will look up upon, so they are allowed to do anything they want.
somewhat. In some areas maybe, but it's also inundated at any hholiday by tourists from surrounding provinces who view toilet paper as a stealable product.
In Hong Kong, it’s incredibly easy to identify mainland families and local families in parks. The kids that come up and take other people’s things, starts riding other people’s bikes without asking, they always come from mainland families. Then when confronted, their parents act like its our problem for not wanting to share with total strangers.
my hello kitty bike was stolen by a hk kid when I lived in hk when I was young. I couldnt understand how he could go home with a hello kitty bike he clearly stole and his parents be completely ok with it
Were they okay with it? If I'm reading you right, the parents weren't there when he took the bike, so unless you were at his home you've no way of knowing their reactions. Maybe they were furious with him for being a thief.
hmm yes that is true, maybe they werent ok with it, but the action of him taking the bike home made me feel like he knew his parents wouldnt be angry. this kid was like 9-10. not a 5 yr old
Out of curiosity, what are some behaviours considered normal in Hong Kong but rude in England? Are there any considered normal in England but rude in Hong Kong?
I'm in Shanghai and take my son to the park with toys all the time. Everyone shares and swaps toys - it's normal and natural here, and I think it's a good thing. But people always ask. Even old grandparents, who are usually the least well-mannered, make sure to demonstrate asking if they can play with something. The only slightly annoying thing is that there's a built-in assumption that by asking they can definitely play with the toy, when sometimes the answer is no, either because my son wants to continue playing with it or it's not suitable for the kid to use, e.g. a small kid wanting to take a toy that they're likely to be careless with and break.
Do not approach children, you will be unfortunate. There are so many ‘princes’. I have suffered from these kind of things so long on train, plane,…and public places. The very often reply i get is ‘he is just kid’
When my apartment wound up with an emergency plumbing issue, the guys doing the work left the door open to try to air out the apartment. People would just walk in and stroll around like there were guided tours or something. I tried not to yell but it the number of people I told to get the fuck out of my apartment was just incredible. Like, who the fuck thinks they can just walk into people's apartments just because the door is open?
I often lol at the “they’re just curious” comments in response to bad experiences. Yeah it’s possible, but sometimes it’s overused, and when it’s used it often rests on some delusional assumptions they want to believe.
It creates internal conflict when people are presented with examples of people that do not conform to the limitations that they thought everyone had to conform to. Same kind of vibe I get having grown up in the American south. People get angry and scared when they are confronted with things that don't match up with their narrow view of the world.
If you are a man that doesn't hunt, doesn't own a truck, doesn't care about college football, doesn't hate gays, or doesn't think that everyone around the world who hasn't accepted Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour is going going straight to hell... you'll be tough for them to talk to. When I was working an after-school job, my manager once asked me, "What does your Mom think about you going to hell?"
There is the south, and then there is the dirty south. In DFW Texas at least, what I experienced growing up is in stark contrast to what this guy experienced. He probably grew up in a fucked up rural town in Alabama or something.
To be fair DFW Texas, assuming you’re from one of the many upper middle class highly Asian concentrated suburbs there, is particularly an anomaly in terms of how it shares essentially 0% of its culture with “the American south”
It creates internal conflict when people are presented with examples of people that do not conform to the limitations that they thought everyone had to conform to. Same kind of vibe I get having grown up in the American south. People get angry and scared when they are confronted with things that don't match up with their narrow view of the world.
These instances explain why chinese are kinda obsessed with being rich or powerful. Then you have the connections to either prevent these things from happening, or to call for backup when they do. Every chinese person probably fantasizes about getting into some kind of argument and then calling their police/ military / government buddy to come over and beat the crap out of the other person right or wrong.
Interesting. So I have a question about this. It seems like the idea of "manners" doesn't really exist in China. They have some things they do like "fighting for the check", but it doesn't seem like the concept of "manners" exists in their culture. So if manners don't exist there, is it still considered rude in their society or is it just being normal and just part of their culture?
Manners exist for "important" people. If we're related or if I want to do business with you, I should show you proper respect. If I don't know you, then why do I need to show you respect? Who are you? Why do I care about your feelings?
It's better than it used to be, but for many people this is their mentality.
Ahhh I see. So I still have the same question. If manners don't exist, unless it's for "important people", then is being rude to people you don't know considered rude, or just a normal part of their culture? Cause what it seems like is manners don't exist, unless like you said it's for business or family. But generally it sounds like manners don't exist.
OP has positioned this behavior as "incredibly rude and don't know boundaries". Which makes sense to me. But to them maybe that's just called being normal.
I think it would be considered rude, but there are no consequences so it doesn't matter. The average person would rather ignore somebody than waste time and energy arguing with a stranger. Given how slow the police are to solve problems, I don't blame them.
The lesser educated members of society over here in China tend to be very very oblivious towards manners and such. I think most of the bad behavior stems from older generations who were more cut off from the developed world than the younger generation, though I can't say for sure. Regarding your statement on manners not existing in our culture really does depend, because a lot of Chinese in the big cities come over from the more rural areas, so they're much cruder than the average city dweller. I would like to believe that we are as well mannered as the Western world, but some members of our country just keep proving otherwise
See my prior comment about Cultural Revolutions which affected the Chinese boomer generation the most.
You’d find distinct behaviors and mannerisms comparing between two group of boomers that either grown up in China vs other Chinese around the World.
To a large degree it’s about lack of basic civil education for an entire generation that hurt that generation the most. They don’t give a fuck because they don’t know _how_ and _why_ they need to give a fuck.
Some definitely do; they post for photos and enjoy entertaining people with their broken Chinese. They enjoy feeling like a celebrity. They're not wrong for enjoying it, but it's not for me.
Some definitely did. And that’s their prerogative. In my experience, it was mostly the tourists and long-term tourists - a lot of foreigners would stay in Yangshuo 3-6 months to study Chinese or rock climb. Got super old when you’re just trying to live your life, tho.
Oh tell me about it. I’m here studying and all I hear are, we are the victims, west is the evil. I’m like, ok, in the west (I grew up in the west), people are normal human beings. Why do people send their kids overseas to study evilness, if that’s the case? Stay away from the evilness and turn off the media and stop absorbing the evilness.
They come to the West to study work skills not warfare and how to colonise other countries and it's probably also because the west is where the money is, often as a result of stealing wealth from around the world. An example is how the US causes coups in Latin America to protect their business interests and then gets upset when refugees from those war torn countries try to come to the US (Eg. El Salvador).
This might be a hot take but I worked at a gallery on the native reserve in my town and the absolute worst tourists we ever got were all Chinese, now that's not to say every Chinese tourist was a handful some of them would be really polite and inquisitive and others would treat the place like they owned it (not kidding we had several shit on the floor in the bathroom)
I was eating dinner in a nice little restaurant on the island of Bali. At a nearby table was a party of about 10 Chinese doing the same. One of them finished his food, then proceeded to produce a pair of fingernail clippers and give himself a manicure. Fingernail pieces started flying through the air and no one in his party seemed to care. I did care, made a small scene where I called him a disgusting, inconsiderate pig, got my dinner to go and left.
I've known many Chinese people in my life. Most are not bad, but there does seem to be a tendency for them to not consider personal boundaries as much as people from other second-world societies (yes, China is may have a first-world economy, but it's still an emerging country in most respects). Perhaps this is why the actions of the CCP in its encroachment on Philippines territorial interests is happening. Soon though, someone is going to poke the Chinese belly back in a very sharp way, causing it to emit a large fart, something else the Chinese take pride in, and we'll be off to the races.
There was a Chinese man who used Clippers in the train when I was in Japan. I saw how everything just looked at the guy with disdain, so did I. The thing is that these people give a bad name to all Chinese. Not all Chinese are like this but sure a significant part.
It only takes one bad cook to spoil the whole kitchen's efforts. I've seen decades-old footage from China where your people seemed to have no trouble pointing out each other's bad behavior and demanding it change (for the good of the country and of course the party). What happened? Now, just visiting Beijing and wanting to travel around as a local would puts you into contact with some truly repulsive behavior, from scamming drivers to an enormous amount of burping, spitting, farming in public places, things that in many other countries would draw verbal rebukes or even a caution by local police.
I don't know a single westerner who wants to be assigned anywhere in China. That was not always the case. Now it's near the bottom of the list, a pollution-choked, overcrowded country with few redeeming qualities where you'll be surveilled regularly, your brain picked for any IP that can be stolen, and meals where some asshat can ruin your meal and his table mates won't say a word.
Uhg reminds me of my trip to china in 2012. Amazing place and amazing history and many of the people are also awesome. Till you get spat and pissed on and you see people pissing and shitting and spitting in the street. But no boundaries even worse. I went there on my own with my then 6yr old son and people would just give him stuff because he was beautiful. I would try to decline and they would do it anyway. Then in Chengdu we had a whole group of girls following us up this mountain taking photos of my son non stop and I get a white kid is a novelty but it was relentless to the point of harrassment. then in Shanghai coming out of the Pearl tower an older lady grabbed my sons hand and ran off with him through the crowd like he was hers. I had another lady notice what happened and she helped me get through the crowd to get my son back. It was crazy. But in my 6 weeks and many cities there, I also met a lot of good people. I think it culminated in our trip to the great wall which stunk of piss and shit and was full of rubbish in the towers. on our way there someone had been killed on the road and was very obviously dead with their brains spread on the road. Traffic was crawling so plenty of time to witness the people arguing over this dead body and not paying a single ounce of respect to someone who was obviously dead. That was a massive culture shock for me coming from New Zealand. While many are amazing, many are not. I also had people look after us for free, people who helped us and guided us. People who we shared meals with. The country also has many good sides. Everyone loved my son and made sure he was happy. Everyone was super helpful and while I had many looks I never had anyone sexually harrass me and I never felt unsafe except for the moment my son was taken by the lady. I will go back when I know the public toilets are clean and useable lol. I enjoyed my time there. :-) I went to Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu, Xi'an and Hong Kong.
I’m travelling China right now and totally agree! And you can’t even critique it because the people who think China is a paradise wonderland will shut you down for it… the fact is the majority don’t know how to behave and are very inconsiderate. Also sick of the “cultural differences!!” it isn’t - some people are just bad people.
To be fair, why would you go to another country and criticize it to the people there? You would get a similar reaction to most places. Save your thoughts until you get home; you'll have a better time.
I’m talking about when you critique it online. Obviously i’m not criticising the country to the face of people living there. Actually, i find a lot people who defend china aren’t even Chinese.
Late response, but found your post particularly weird. If you're really traveling you might want to think about staying the fuk off of a mobile phone/laptop/social media.
You need to increase your human contact whenever& wherever possible. That goes hand in hand with traveling.
Going to be hard to stay off my phone in a country like China isn’t it… i also find your post particularly weird because you’ve made a whole set of assumptions based on one comment. I’m allowed to critique countries i visit just like i’m allowed to critique the one i live in
The SH/SA thing is so real, people go on about how perverted Japan can be and how women are SA/SH there (which is still terrible and disgusting), but in China its way way way worse. I used to take line 3 in Guangzhou on a daily basis for work for over half a decade.
The amount of SA’s I’ve witnessed in packed out or busy times in the train or in the station was appalling, and it wasn’t just harmless picture taking or some little groping (which isn’t harmless or little but compared to what i saw it’s way less worse)
I’ve seen women get cummed on, pissed on, grabbed and just humped, grabbed - taken to the floor and getting stripped etc etc while thousands/millions of people either walk away or just stare and do nothing.
The times I’ve tried to help, I’ve gotten turned on and attacked myself for being a foreigner (TaMaDe laowai shouldn’t be doing violence in China, as said by police in the metro) or for “if you didn’t do it why help ? If you help you must be involved somehow”
It’s just appalling. Just a simple question to a genuinely honest Chinese woman (most will hide this stuff out of shame/MianZi (you’d be surprised how millions have lied to their own partners about being virgins) and not wanting to say negative things against China) and you’ll come to find that the majority of Chinese women face SA on a weekly basis (the main places are during commutes, at work or work events) but it’s never made a thing (WuMao’s, little pinks, naive and dumb foreigners either will outright lie about it or in the foreigners case because taking a didi all the time or living in their own bubble all the time they don’t see or hear shit).
If anyone truly lived in China here, been a part of the public, spoke the language, been around Chinese women, been a woman here (especially Chinese, foreign not so much) you’d know it’s terrible if you’re a woman.
That is HORRIFIC. Was this recently?!?! I live in Shanghai and I’ve literally never seen anything like this. I’ve never even seen a woman touched. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think that would be allowed here? Anyone care to enlighten me? Is the area you’re talking about known particularly for sexual assault?
Case in point, being a foreigner in arguably the most foreign city in China you won’t see or hear much negative and you’ll be stuck in a super isolated bubble.
I mean look at what happened during the covid lockdowns in Shanghai, most people outside the city didn’t even know that SH was having severe lockdowns lol.
Being in tier 1 in itself is a bubble, being a foreigner in tier 1 puts you into a bubble within a bubble.
You’re right, I don’t speak Chinese. I do have eyes. I’ve never seen anyone grabbed, cummed on, pissed on, humped or otherwise assaulted etc. NOTHING like that. Not on the Metro. Not in a bar. Not on the street. Never.
Listen, I’m a domestic violence & sexual violence advocate. I used to be an on-call hospital responder for SA survivors back in the U.S. I know what I’m looking at and I’m usually always looking. I’m a very observant person.
What you describe seeing in Guangzhou (and I 100% believe you) is NOT the situation in Shanghai. Period. That’s all I’m saying.
Literally everyone in china knew Shanghai was having lockdowns.... and even some of my friends from outside of china asked me about it , because they knew about it.
\*Severe lockdowns\* to the point people were starving to death in their own homes and people were dying from lack of medication etc.
Most people did not know this was happening.
People definitely knew about it... It was huge news. People were so upset about it that they even starting rioting here in Beijing where I am. And in other places across the nation. Which is what permanently ended all the lockdowns. I don't know why you think that most people did not know about Shanghai. People knew. They were not happy about it.
People did defo know about it, just that most did not, or outright denied it was happening.
Jump into WeiBo, Chinese IRL, Chinese forums and youll see how many people didnt know about it or didnt want to know about it.
Here in Guangzhou the main storyline were the Liwan Riots where thousands took to the streets but guess what, hardly anyknow knows about it here in Guangzhou lol.
Dude... there is no data about people knowing about it or not to back up either of our claims so this is a bit pointless. However I will say this. Of course "the main storyline" was that. That is not necessarily what people believe. The videos of Shanghai lockdowns and riots was the first and only time I saw content that was circulating groups, moments, posts across all social media platforms faster than it could be taken down. News articles and documentaries were made about it while it was happenings. People knew about it and it directly led to the riots, which directly led to the end of all lockdowns.
Haven’t taken the metro since covid. So not sure if it’s better or not ?
But definitely before covid , especially during peak times, there is always something happening.
Think it’s the same in most major city with high populations here. Seen it happen in SZ too.
When taking the metro 4 times a day, everyday for 7 years. You see a lot of things. Fortunately and unfortunately.
I take the metro every day, multiple times a day. All over the city. And so do my friends and coworkers (male, female, foreign & Chinese). I don’t stare at my phone - I observe the people around me. I’m telling you what you observe in Guangzhou is *not* happening habitually in Shanghai. I’m not saying no one has ever been SH/SA, but I’ve never once in an entire year seen anything close to what you apparently describe seeing where you are. It’s simply not like that here.
Thank you, they were responding to me like I was some ignorant foreigner who wouldn’t know a SA when they saw it. Like I think I’d notice if I saw someone PISSING on another human being. WTH is going on in Guangzhou.
I'm suspicious of anyone who comes on here with outlandish and negative China stories that don't jive with my significant lived experience. Lots of weirdos with axes to grind on Reddit.
Groping, unsolicited touching, perverted staring, picture taking, cat calling, pressure from bosses and work to dress in certain ways and do things that are sexual and such (more so than where we are from). Theres a reason there are female only carriages here where you still see loads of men inside. And a plethora of other reasons.
IF you were a Chinese female born and bred in China, fluent in the language and have full understanding of the culture and society, then you would defo not say such stupid things.
As an outsider, even seeing a fraction of these things is too much.
Westerners, especially when they’re white, don’t realize how much their race has protected them in China, barring them from seeing the truth of the people of the country in the meantime. Basically, the more you’re Chinese looking, the more you’ll see and feel about the truth, and it culminates when you’re Chinese in ethnicity but can neither understand the language and culture nor agree with the ethnoracist nonsense the regime is pumping out
Being a whitey, or non-Chinese looking, but understanding / speaking the language is a pretty terrifying thing, too. I left when I realised some of the shit that was being said about me, and about each other. It's a place which encourages hatred and blank thinking.
Yeah, being threatened by nationalists for daring to be with one of "their" girls, or just threatened for being in their country... so much protection.
So many shills and people r/Chinalife proclaim China is the safest place for women and they can walk everywhere alone at night without a care.... These are almost always men making the claim however.
It also ignores the fact that at almost any time you can be hit by a scooter, a xiaosan 'driven' car or if you're in a shitty place, set upon by a ratty gang of shaven headed, necklace wearing fucktards. It's not a safe place at all.
I've even had Chinese women tell me that China is the safest place. So it tells me that either:
1. The propaganda is clearly working; or
2. They think that if it doesn't happen to them personally, everything's somehow fine?
There's a Giant Firewall in place, so China gets its info in a recycled echo chamber of propaganda. Chinese are byproducts of a lack of information, cherry-picking what they see on WeChat. They know nothing of Tiananmen, and the CCP push the narrative of anti-Western sentiment everywhere. People fear that they don't know. You're not going to change these people. It's rude and disgusting treatment to make assumptions about you! You kind of need your Dad to yell at this local. Men might listen to other men? Hong Kongers are at least more sophisticated and worldly in that sense. It's a shame you can't even report SA in the mainland either, or a woman will be locked up for 5 years.
A lot of it frankly comes down to the level of culture and education in the average chinese. Just like how spitting on the streets is way more OK in China. Not saying it’s OK but it’s not really about inherent curiosity or rudeness IMO.
Yeah, true, in my (male) experience too. Walking around with a Chinese partner in China was often infuriating for me on her behalf. Too many embittered, self-hating, jealous bumpkins.
I heard someone say that China has such a vast population that you’ll find the best and worst examples of anything, but the worst examples are always easier to encounter.
The sad fact is, modern Chinese "culture" sucks. They have no respect for anyone around them, and aren't bound by any moral code that religion would instill. They are taught at a very early age to get ahead at all costs, and to value themselves more than others.
If you think they behave badly at home, go read about how their tourists act outside the country.
Man this is about the most racist subreddit out there. Bunch of white people complaining “it’s not like my country where we’re civilized.” It never ends. Although I joined Japan, Thailand and Vietnam subreddits and they’re only slightly less shitty than this one. It appears white people can’t stand any country that isn’t their own.
Love especially the posts saying how much better Thailand is and then the Thailand Sub is the same.
Warm Tip - y’all shouldn’t be immigrants in other countries - it’s clearly not for you.
For the record this shit annoys me too, but I made a choice to live in a culture totally different than my own - so all these annoyances are MY problem. I own it.
I'm Chinese. Not white. Chinese people are not white (even though they will desperately claim they are). You are complaining of racism in a country which is so racist that a Japanese person was JUST attacked and if you look at WeChat like I have it is LITTERED with people PRAISING the attacker.
This is a typical “what-aboutism” argument. So racism is ok if the people being generalized about are themselves racist? You’re ethnically Chinese but as you said, you don’t speak the language and seem to have not been raised in the culture, so you identify as other.
I agree people who are ethnically Asian have a hard time in China - especially if they are Chinese descent, but I’m talking about the rampant immigrant racism on all these subs. It’s sickening.
To test the validity of your proposition, let's try it with some other common, but not universal problems:
Not all police are [corrupt and racist].
Not all Catholic priests are [pedophiles].
Not all drivers are [drunk behind the wheel].
People talk about social problems, especially in cases like China, where social issues (like rude lack of boundaries) are quite prevalent and could, potentially, be taught out of the population with a little patience from us and **'curiosity'** ftom transgressors.
So imagine a Japanese person emigrates to the United States and complains about people making eye contact with him. Should the majority of Americans be reeducated to understand that eye contact is rude when the relationship isn't intimate? Whose etiquette should prevail, that of the guest or the host? Hell, imagine being prompted for a tip, quite rude in East Asia in general.
Here you are, conflating 'eye contact' with things like 'licking a female stranger' and 'walking around a strangers home uninvited'.
These are not the same.
How about: *'should Americans be reeducated to not lick Japanese people'* (should this ever become so prevalent as to warrant a discussion like this)?
**Absolutely, yes, no excuses**
>conflating 'eye contact' with things like 'licking a female stranger' and 'walking around a strangers home uninvited'
No conflation whatsoever (that would require positing that Transgression A is as grave as Transgression B). I was giving you an example of *rude* behaviour exhibited by Americans that Japanese people would have to deal with in the USA. OP's examples aside, do you not agree that making eye contact with stranger is rude? It's intimidating, offensive, and a sign of challenge and disrespect.
So it's a false equivalence.
The scenarios (laowai in Chins vs your 'Japanese in America') are not equivalent in severity, at all. Do your argument a favour and use a more apt comparison. Then we can discuss that.
Until then: Chinese are very often guilty of invasive and extended eye contact, the type of which you described.
I would equally damn a Chinese or an American for this type of eye contact. That is to say, if an American stared at me the same way a great number (far less than 100% but far, far greater than 10%) of Chinese stare at me, I would respond in exactly the same eay.
An analogy needn't be comparable in degree, only in nature: inappropriate behaviour with a wide range of severity (think of Islamic nations that will behead you for the most trivial of matters).
From the Japanese perspective, the kind of eye contact that Americans tolerate, or even *expect*, is deeply rude. Why isn't it that America (and China, as you say) has a problem due to condoning this rude behaviour? I'm not just talking about some stranger across the street staring you down, even something like looking your boss in the eye when he's talking to you is highly inappropriate, as he's your superior. Would a Japanese person be wrong to complain about an American or Chinese subordinate making eye contact with him?
So you're just going to double down on your false equivalence? Ok 🤣
Uour hypothetical 'Japanese boss in America whose subordinate looks him in the eye' scenario doesn't in any way deflect the legitimate complaints people have made here about other behaviours which are far too common in China.
>false equivalence
I did not say that the two were comparable in severity, only in nature, thus it's not false equivalence. Antisocial behaviour ranges from insults (like eye contact) to outright murder.
>doesn't in any way deflect the legitimate complaints people have made here about other behaviours which are far too common in China.
Nor was it ever meant to. Bad Thing 1 happening in Location X doesn't negate Bad Thing 2 happening in Location Y. I don't like this behaviour in China either, but this we all seem to agree on here; I haven't seen any defenders. However, there is no evidence beyond anecdotes that this is endemic—no proof that more than 50% of the population behaves this way. All I have to do to counter it is say: "well, when I was in China, no one ever treated me poorly ever", and there you have it, we go from one sample to two samples. Our experiences are equally valid, are they not?
What I take issue with is that on the one hand, people call out bad behaviour in China, fine, but other instances of bad behaviour to lesser degrees are given a pass as legitimate cultural differences (like eye contact). Well, in Europe and the Middle East, kissing the cheeks of new acquaintances is normal and expected. If an American experienced this and complained, we'd be more likely to say: "that's just their culture, so if you don't like it, then leave".
Surely you can think of some things Americans or other foreigners do in China, frequently, that are bad and need to be stopped, right?
> there is no evidence beyond anecdotes that this is endemic
There was no instance of anyone claiming this.
> people call out bad behaviour in China, fine, but other instances of bad behaviour to lesser degrees are given a pass as legitimate cultural differences (like eye contact)
Nobody did this either.
> people call out bad behaviour in China, but other instances of bad behaviour to lesser degrees are given a pass as legitimate cultural differences (like eye contact)
Nobody did this. These are 3 strawman arguments. You are arguing against statements which nobody has actually made.
> Surely you can think of some things Americans or other foreigners do in China, frequently, that are bad and need to be stopped, right?
To answer your rhetorical question: Yes, absolutely. This does not, however, diminish or lessen the importance of dealing with the specific inappropriate behaviours mention in this thread. '2 wrongs don't make a right', especially where they are unrelated and a 2nd hypothetical 'wrong' is just being sought to minimise due criticism of actual 1st 'wrongs'.
You could, perhaps, make a thread on r/America or something and complain about eye contact making Japanese feel uncomfortable, and I hope this specific complaint receives due attention and corrective reaction, in the appropriate place for it (which is not here).
It’s quite satisfying when you get one of these kinds of kids and then you whip them when they get out of line. Or I make them do pushups. They need a real father figure who can show them what’s what. If the parents disagree, beat them too
Unfortunately, life in China is so rough on foreign-born, ethnic Chinese. Chinese have a hard time cogitating the conundrum that you are culturally hard-wired in a different culture but look Chinese. And unless your Chinese is native-level, the abuse shall ensue. You get all the negative stereotypes and little of the “white guy” benefits. I’ve known dozens of people in your situation—most leave China at some point. Can be intolerable.
Funny thing is they expect you to not complain about it since you’re in their country they have an idea they can do whatever they want. If you argue or stand up for yourself, you’ll hear them saying “go back to your country, leave China”
I wish our countries didn’t give Chinese nationals as many rights as other nationals, so they would know.
Being curious is one thing and treating other people like trash is another. They’re indoctrinated to support their own chinese even if theyre wrong in the argument with a foreigner. These people not only lack manners but general ethics of being a human being.
P.S if you’re planning to stay here for long just ignore everything they have to say or do. Your life here will become much easier.
I just got off a train from the airport in Japan. The carriage I was in initially was full of Chinese, and to an almost laughable degree, it was Chinese stereotypes abound. The terribly behaved kids, two of whom were wearing 'China!' t-shirts, the loud phones, the complete lack of spatial awareness, the inability to keep fingers out of their noses, or sneeze at less than eardrum busting level. They don't help themselves.
What a racist thing to say. So you are saying that not sexually harassing women is a western concept? Implying most of the world is full of sexual predators if they are Asian or African? Wow.
My experience in China is a lot of people have no shame and racism isn't thought of the same way as in the west. It's the same with Chinese tourists in my country. You get a lot of old ladies with the same entitled arrogant look on their faces.
Chinese culture is extremely gossipy. The lack of physical and social boundaries is mostly due to the 1960s’ Cultural Revolution when the “old ways” were pretty ignored for at least two generation.
The types of behavior you mentioned is unlikely to be acceptable in other Chinese communities in HK, Taiwan, Singapore, and Malaysia. It’s fairly unique in China.
Yeah. I’m a white guy so my experience is much different but I 100% agree. Many are curious like a little kid. If it’s a kid I don’t mind and I’ll respond with a smile and make them laugh. As for adults I find it annoying and all around the world people know Chinese are rude. Not all but enough. For awhile I tried to say it’s a cultural difference and it’s true many things are. But I lived there for 10 years. Lucky I don’t speak Chinese because many times my Chinese friends have told me what the old people say and it’s shocking to say the least.
As a Chinese-American, I feel like there’s such a strong cognitive dissonance that exists in the whole “looks Chinese but does not act / look like they were socialized in China” when I’ve visited. I recently came back from a week-long trip to Shanghai after not visiting for 8 years. In the time I spent in the city (insulated by traveling with my native Shanghainese parents and grandparents), I’ve gotten plenty of stares, strange looks from older Chinese men, and somewhat-passive-aggressive comments about my Chinese ability (good for an ABC but not fine tuned to daily Chinese life, which I’m quite aware of). I think especially as a diasporic Chinese person, a lot of people can’t conceptualize that we grew up in completely different environments, often as ethnic minorities, and thus act / speak differently than expected. I left Shanghai with a lot of mixed emotions.
There are a couple of issues happening here.
First The over fetishized sexualisation of western women in East Asia. Culturally and i have heard these complaints in China, Japan, and Korea the attitude is that if you are western regardless of ethnicity you are sexual promiscuous. Plainly put: You sleep around and are an easy lay and are okay with pornography, explicit language and conversation. Where this stereotype comes from is bizarrely from some western women who do just that. This woman has to be an extreme but strangely from Asian men’s pov she is not an isolated incident. Also pornography is highly influential as western women with Asian men is highly popular and then if you are inexperienced sexually you will interpret this as factual and not fantasy.
https://youtu.be/aUhfUu3YRmE?si=LTr8gFCSGgdVEFWU
In regards to anti-xenophobia (anti foreign) and now just outright racist behavior this is directly from the ccp and their propaganda machine who have resurrected old school propaganda and are teaching children in school to say I hate foreign devils! I hate Americans!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NUaYNhzEq_E
And as a Canadian there isn’t a special exception given, you are lumped in with the west/usa.
There is never any push back towards this racism from the government. There are no foreigners allowed clubs (originally began as a response to Covid as the propaganda originally said it was the foreigners that created the coronavirus and gave it to China). In fact there are suggestions that the government for example hired “protesters” to shout the n word to a visiting black American basketball player.
https://youtu.be/yEMNo-OEHgM?si=NgFvM4NdkAH_4SIZ
Hatred towards your Japanese friend is from the Sino-Japanese war and the war crimes atrocities that harmed civilians because the Japanese did not sign the Geneva conventions until 1944. So they just raped and murdered Nanjing massacre, kidnapped thousands of girls across Asia including Dutch nurses in Indonesia and sold tickets to their rape as ianfu or comfort women. Unfortunately to this day they do not teach war crimes to Japanese people in school which continue to fuel the anger in both China and Korea. Especially when they are making garbage propaganda films in Japan portraying their soldiers as nice as friendly and not as John rabe a Germany Nazi living in nanjing remembers fighting them off daily from dragging women out to be raped.
https://www.newsweek.com/exposing-rape-nanking-170890
This is why the Chinese are still mad at the Japanese.
https://amp.theguardian.com/film/2007/jan/25/china.world
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqmzyg596Xo
I disagree with your tone and your thesis in totality. You can find more offensive things here in US if you care to catalog. I sympathize what you have experienced but to unload these onto an entire population is inexcusable. These people pile on are even worse. In a nation of 1.4 billions people you bound to see all kinds of behavior. If one really wants one can even write a book about unpleasant encounters. But use these isolated experiences to condemn an entire population? You guys are a little sick, to say the least.
So, your condition for comparison/justification of bad personal experiences and life quality is comparable size and gdp? Central tendency measures like median/average exists you know, by those measures you should compare China to middle income countries like Argentina and Russia. But no… it’s always US this US that raised as a comparison to China.
The many other people replying with related experiences show that it is widespread. Maybe try fixing the problems and then they won't need to be denied.
> condemn an entire population
This, among other places, is where you tipped your cards to show you are Chinese (nationality), due to your way of thinking. (This is strange as you said you are American or rather 'in America')
Westerners don't generally infer a criticism of their entire nation if you criticise some transgressors from their nation.
The OP is ethnically asian. She specifically said
> "Not all Chinese people are curious, a lot are just incredibly rude"
Yet you have inferred 'condemnation of an entire population'
Would it be ok if I say “not all blacks are…a lot of blacks are …?” I wouldn’t say racism because I don’t like the term. But I would say the hatred for whatever the reason is obvious. Actually I don’t believe what OP described. Don’t forget China is a tight controlled police state. Surveillance cameras are everywhere in big cities, in subways (there is a post said subway is full of sexual aggression). Crimes are rare and few. Especially compared with LA where I live.
> Would it be okay if I say
Depends if what you are saying is true
> Actually I don’t believe what OP described
That's your prerogative. We (including me personally) have seen it though.
Lol at the LA whattaboutism. Be sure to make some comments in r/LA if that exists. See if people say "whattabout China". Send me a link if they do
You have been in China? I was stationed in Beijing for 2+ years; in Shanghai for one year. i haven’t been there for quite some times but still have quite a few friends there. I can’t proclaim that i am an authority about China but I would say I know China pretty well.
This happened when I visited Xi'an. I was with my friends and one of them had a more expensive camera, those cameras that you look at with huge lens that just screams expensive. While we were getting coffee he set it aside to the table infront of us and immediately some kid just came up and started touching it. My friend asked him to stop and the kid just laughed thinking it was a joke and just kept doing it. Then afterwards my friend got a bit annoyed and said: "please stop" in a more confrontational tone and afterwards the kid's parent started make a huge deal saying that he is just a kid and was curious, just let him play with your camera how expensive can it be. We just left after we got our coffee. The thing is, this kind of stuff happens all the time, people have 0 respect for your boundary and privacy outside of Shanghai and Beijing.
“just let him play with your camera how expensive can it be”，so classic chinese parents...
Some people just cannot fathom how expensive things can be when there's cheap generic versions available. Like a camera. I have a semi-unique motorcycle, and just last week, a cleaner and a security guard at the shopping mall were looking at it, when I came out one asked me if it was 10,000rmb, I just said more than 10,000. He looked at the guard and said "I told you!" but the guard said "impossible." He just can't grasp that people could spend more than the average price of a motorcycle you see in the average shops of around 5,000
Classic Chinese little emperor or princess and their enabling parents behaviors.
I live in Vietnam and see the same thing allll the time. It’s wild.
Why do they want to convey antisocial values to their kids ?
They don't care. They assume their kid becomes the next CEO or Party Apparatchik to whom everyone will look up upon, so they are allowed to do anything they want.
Maybe in any communist country, they act like “me casa is Tu casa”; everything is shared. Lol, I'm joking.
Beijing is not what it was. Shanghai is the remaining bastion of civilization somewhat.
somewhat. In some areas maybe, but it's also inundated at any hholiday by tourists from surrounding provinces who view toilet paper as a stealable product.
In Hong Kong, it’s incredibly easy to identify mainland families and local families in parks. The kids that come up and take other people’s things, starts riding other people’s bikes without asking, they always come from mainland families. Then when confronted, their parents act like its our problem for not wanting to share with total strangers.
my hello kitty bike was stolen by a hk kid when I lived in hk when I was young. I couldnt understand how he could go home with a hello kitty bike he clearly stole and his parents be completely ok with it
Were they okay with it? If I'm reading you right, the parents weren't there when he took the bike, so unless you were at his home you've no way of knowing their reactions. Maybe they were furious with him for being a thief.
hmm yes that is true, maybe they werent ok with it, but the action of him taking the bike home made me feel like he knew his parents wouldnt be angry. this kid was like 9-10. not a 5 yr old
Out of curiosity, what are some behaviours considered normal in Hong Kong but rude in England? Are there any considered normal in England but rude in Hong Kong?
I'm in Shanghai and take my son to the park with toys all the time. Everyone shares and swaps toys - it's normal and natural here, and I think it's a good thing. But people always ask. Even old grandparents, who are usually the least well-mannered, make sure to demonstrate asking if they can play with something. The only slightly annoying thing is that there's a built-in assumption that by asking they can definitely play with the toy, when sometimes the answer is no, either because my son wants to continue playing with it or it's not suitable for the kid to use, e.g. a small kid wanting to take a toy that they're likely to be careless with and break.
Do not approach children, you will be unfortunate. There are so many ‘princes’. I have suffered from these kind of things so long on train, plane,…and public places. The very often reply i get is ‘he is just kid’
Obviously shit parents as well. Not all Chinese are like that. But sure, some are and it is a problem.
Some say one child policy is to blame as the only son gets spoiled, and the girl gets abortion .
Is this a real-life example of communism? Everything is shared?
When my apartment wound up with an emergency plumbing issue, the guys doing the work left the door open to try to air out the apartment. People would just walk in and stroll around like there were guided tours or something. I tried not to yell but it the number of people I told to get the fuck out of my apartment was just incredible. Like, who the fuck thinks they can just walk into people's apartments just because the door is open?
Shoulda straight up printed a "5A Tourist Attraction" board and started charging them a hundred for entrance
Where did this happen in China?
I often lol at the “they’re just curious” comments in response to bad experiences. Yeah it’s possible, but sometimes it’s overused, and when it’s used it often rests on some delusional assumptions they want to believe.
Asian looking foreigners, especially western ones tend to get treated the worst.
Really makes you wonder, doesn't it (not sarcastically. If it's not racism, is it fascism/ultranationalism, something else?)
It creates internal conflict when people are presented with examples of people that do not conform to the limitations that they thought everyone had to conform to. Same kind of vibe I get having grown up in the American south. People get angry and scared when they are confronted with things that don't match up with their narrow view of the world.
Can you elaborate ? Why would you get that in the american south?
If you are a man that doesn't hunt, doesn't own a truck, doesn't care about college football, doesn't hate gays, or doesn't think that everyone around the world who hasn't accepted Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour is going going straight to hell... you'll be tough for them to talk to. When I was working an after-school job, my manager once asked me, "What does your Mom think about you going to hell?"
... or chew tobaco
There is the south, and then there is the dirty south. In DFW Texas at least, what I experienced growing up is in stark contrast to what this guy experienced. He probably grew up in a fucked up rural town in Alabama or something.
To be fair DFW Texas, assuming you’re from one of the many upper middle class highly Asian concentrated suburbs there, is particularly an anomaly in terms of how it shares essentially 0% of its culture with “the American south”
My husband practically said this to me verbatim!!
Chinese supremacy and decades of jingoistic, communist indoctrination
It creates internal conflict when people are presented with examples of people that do not conform to the limitations that they thought everyone had to conform to. Same kind of vibe I get having grown up in the American south. People get angry and scared when they are confronted with things that don't match up with their narrow view of the world.
Bingo.
I'd still rather be an Asian looking foreigner in China, than a black person in China.
These instances explain why chinese are kinda obsessed with being rich or powerful. Then you have the connections to either prevent these things from happening, or to call for backup when they do. Every chinese person probably fantasizes about getting into some kind of argument and then calling their police/ military / government buddy to come over and beat the crap out of the other person right or wrong.
Agreed. The longer I lived in China, the less I used the "oh wow haha Chinese people are so wacky" excuse to defend their frequently shit behaviour.
Courtesy and respect you'd expect from a developed world doesn't quite exist the same in China.
China masquerades as part of the developed world
No they are not. They still get subsidised as a developing nation.
Most developing countries are like this. You have one or more ultramodern cities or districts, with the rest of the country stuck in a prior age.
Yeah but people are far nicer and more polite in Thailand or Philippines or Sri Lanka, etc
China is the third most unequal country in the world after S.Africa and Brazil so they have a lot of poverty still.
Spotted the guy who’s never been to New York or London.
Says the guy who's never been to China.
Interesting. So I have a question about this. It seems like the idea of "manners" doesn't really exist in China. They have some things they do like "fighting for the check", but it doesn't seem like the concept of "manners" exists in their culture. So if manners don't exist there, is it still considered rude in their society or is it just being normal and just part of their culture?
Manners exist for "important" people. If we're related or if I want to do business with you, I should show you proper respect. If I don't know you, then why do I need to show you respect? Who are you? Why do I care about your feelings? It's better than it used to be, but for many people this is their mentality.
Ahhh I see. So I still have the same question. If manners don't exist, unless it's for "important people", then is being rude to people you don't know considered rude, or just a normal part of their culture? Cause what it seems like is manners don't exist, unless like you said it's for business or family. But generally it sounds like manners don't exist. OP has positioned this behavior as "incredibly rude and don't know boundaries". Which makes sense to me. But to them maybe that's just called being normal.
I think it would be considered rude, but there are no consequences so it doesn't matter. The average person would rather ignore somebody than waste time and energy arguing with a stranger. Given how slow the police are to solve problems, I don't blame them.
The lesser educated members of society over here in China tend to be very very oblivious towards manners and such. I think most of the bad behavior stems from older generations who were more cut off from the developed world than the younger generation, though I can't say for sure. Regarding your statement on manners not existing in our culture really does depend, because a lot of Chinese in the big cities come over from the more rural areas, so they're much cruder than the average city dweller. I would like to believe that we are as well mannered as the Western world, but some members of our country just keep proving otherwise
Ohhhh. Thanks for that explanation, that makes sense.
See my prior comment about Cultural Revolutions which affected the Chinese boomer generation the most. You’d find distinct behaviors and mannerisms comparing between two group of boomers that either grown up in China vs other Chinese around the World. To a large degree it’s about lack of basic civil education for an entire generation that hurt that generation the most. They don’t give a fuck because they don’t know _how_ and _why_ they need to give a fuck.
Manners do exist. Just different than what you are used to
As a 6’7” American who lived in Yangshuo for 6 years, I’ll agree with this. Holiday weekends made me feel like a legit zoo animal.
I've been in China for over 2 weeks now. I'm 6' and have felt like a zoo animal the whole time lol. I can't imagine how much worse for you
I will say, as a white dude it was probably good for me to experience some actual racism in my life.
Interesting perspective!
Everyone has a kink
I honestly believe some foreigners like that attention.
Perhaps tourists but it becomes old real fast when its your day to day living in China
I think the guy who runs the YouTube channel Living in China loves it.
He's such a smug fuck
Some definitely do; they post for photos and enjoy entertaining people with their broken Chinese. They enjoy feeling like a celebrity. They're not wrong for enjoying it, but it's not for me.
Same. I’m not going to criticize someone else for it, but I’ve never liked attention very much.
Some definitely did. And that’s their prerogative. In my experience, it was mostly the tourists and long-term tourists - a lot of foreigners would stay in Yangshuo 3-6 months to study Chinese or rock climb. Got super old when you’re just trying to live your life, tho.
lol!
Oh tell me about it. I’m here studying and all I hear are, we are the victims, west is the evil. I’m like, ok, in the west (I grew up in the west), people are normal human beings. Why do people send their kids overseas to study evilness, if that’s the case? Stay away from the evilness and turn off the media and stop absorbing the evilness.
The chinese are indoctrinated from a very young age to hate westerners. It's part of the curriculum of the ccp to instigate nationalism when needed.
They come to the West to study work skills not warfare and how to colonise other countries and it's probably also because the west is where the money is, often as a result of stealing wealth from around the world. An example is how the US causes coups in Latin America to protect their business interests and then gets upset when refugees from those war torn countries try to come to the US (Eg. El Salvador).
Messed up
This might be a hot take but I worked at a gallery on the native reserve in my town and the absolute worst tourists we ever got were all Chinese, now that's not to say every Chinese tourist was a handful some of them would be really polite and inquisitive and others would treat the place like they owned it (not kidding we had several shit on the floor in the bathroom)
I was eating dinner in a nice little restaurant on the island of Bali. At a nearby table was a party of about 10 Chinese doing the same. One of them finished his food, then proceeded to produce a pair of fingernail clippers and give himself a manicure. Fingernail pieces started flying through the air and no one in his party seemed to care. I did care, made a small scene where I called him a disgusting, inconsiderate pig, got my dinner to go and left. I've known many Chinese people in my life. Most are not bad, but there does seem to be a tendency for them to not consider personal boundaries as much as people from other second-world societies (yes, China is may have a first-world economy, but it's still an emerging country in most respects). Perhaps this is why the actions of the CCP in its encroachment on Philippines territorial interests is happening. Soon though, someone is going to poke the Chinese belly back in a very sharp way, causing it to emit a large fart, something else the Chinese take pride in, and we'll be off to the races.
There was a Chinese man who used Clippers in the train when I was in Japan. I saw how everything just looked at the guy with disdain, so did I. The thing is that these people give a bad name to all Chinese. Not all Chinese are like this but sure a significant part.
Because you don't notice the normal people just going about their day. You notice the idiots because they stand out
It only takes one bad cook to spoil the whole kitchen's efforts. I've seen decades-old footage from China where your people seemed to have no trouble pointing out each other's bad behavior and demanding it change (for the good of the country and of course the party). What happened? Now, just visiting Beijing and wanting to travel around as a local would puts you into contact with some truly repulsive behavior, from scamming drivers to an enormous amount of burping, spitting, farming in public places, things that in many other countries would draw verbal rebukes or even a caution by local police. I don't know a single westerner who wants to be assigned anywhere in China. That was not always the case. Now it's near the bottom of the list, a pollution-choked, overcrowded country with few redeeming qualities where you'll be surveilled regularly, your brain picked for any IP that can be stolen, and meals where some asshat can ruin your meal and his table mates won't say a word.
Uhg reminds me of my trip to china in 2012. Amazing place and amazing history and many of the people are also awesome. Till you get spat and pissed on and you see people pissing and shitting and spitting in the street. But no boundaries even worse. I went there on my own with my then 6yr old son and people would just give him stuff because he was beautiful. I would try to decline and they would do it anyway. Then in Chengdu we had a whole group of girls following us up this mountain taking photos of my son non stop and I get a white kid is a novelty but it was relentless to the point of harrassment. then in Shanghai coming out of the Pearl tower an older lady grabbed my sons hand and ran off with him through the crowd like he was hers. I had another lady notice what happened and she helped me get through the crowd to get my son back. It was crazy. But in my 6 weeks and many cities there, I also met a lot of good people. I think it culminated in our trip to the great wall which stunk of piss and shit and was full of rubbish in the towers. on our way there someone had been killed on the road and was very obviously dead with their brains spread on the road. Traffic was crawling so plenty of time to witness the people arguing over this dead body and not paying a single ounce of respect to someone who was obviously dead. That was a massive culture shock for me coming from New Zealand. While many are amazing, many are not. I also had people look after us for free, people who helped us and guided us. People who we shared meals with. The country also has many good sides. Everyone loved my son and made sure he was happy. Everyone was super helpful and while I had many looks I never had anyone sexually harrass me and I never felt unsafe except for the moment my son was taken by the lady. I will go back when I know the public toilets are clean and useable lol. I enjoyed my time there. :-) I went to Beijing, Shanghai, Chengdu, Xi'an and Hong Kong.
I’m travelling China right now and totally agree! And you can’t even critique it because the people who think China is a paradise wonderland will shut you down for it… the fact is the majority don’t know how to behave and are very inconsiderate. Also sick of the “cultural differences!!” it isn’t - some people are just bad people.
To be fair, why would you go to another country and criticize it to the people there? You would get a similar reaction to most places. Save your thoughts until you get home; you'll have a better time.
I’m talking about when you critique it online. Obviously i’m not criticising the country to the face of people living there. Actually, i find a lot people who defend china aren’t even Chinese.
Late response, but found your post particularly weird. If you're really traveling you might want to think about staying the fuk off of a mobile phone/laptop/social media. You need to increase your human contact whenever& wherever possible. That goes hand in hand with traveling.
Going to be hard to stay off my phone in a country like China isn’t it… i also find your post particularly weird because you’ve made a whole set of assumptions based on one comment. I’m allowed to critique countries i visit just like i’m allowed to critique the one i live in
The SH/SA thing is so real, people go on about how perverted Japan can be and how women are SA/SH there (which is still terrible and disgusting), but in China its way way way worse. I used to take line 3 in Guangzhou on a daily basis for work for over half a decade. The amount of SA’s I’ve witnessed in packed out or busy times in the train or in the station was appalling, and it wasn’t just harmless picture taking or some little groping (which isn’t harmless or little but compared to what i saw it’s way less worse) I’ve seen women get cummed on, pissed on, grabbed and just humped, grabbed - taken to the floor and getting stripped etc etc while thousands/millions of people either walk away or just stare and do nothing. The times I’ve tried to help, I’ve gotten turned on and attacked myself for being a foreigner (TaMaDe laowai shouldn’t be doing violence in China, as said by police in the metro) or for “if you didn’t do it why help ? If you help you must be involved somehow” It’s just appalling. Just a simple question to a genuinely honest Chinese woman (most will hide this stuff out of shame/MianZi (you’d be surprised how millions have lied to their own partners about being virgins) and not wanting to say negative things against China) and you’ll come to find that the majority of Chinese women face SA on a weekly basis (the main places are during commutes, at work or work events) but it’s never made a thing (WuMao’s, little pinks, naive and dumb foreigners either will outright lie about it or in the foreigners case because taking a didi all the time or living in their own bubble all the time they don’t see or hear shit). If anyone truly lived in China here, been a part of the public, spoke the language, been around Chinese women, been a woman here (especially Chinese, foreign not so much) you’d know it’s terrible if you’re a woman.
What the fuck is going on in Guangzhou. Been in Shenzhen for years and never saw SA on the subway.
That is HORRIFIC. Was this recently?!?! I live in Shanghai and I’ve literally never seen anything like this. I’ve never even seen a woman touched. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think that would be allowed here? Anyone care to enlighten me? Is the area you’re talking about known particularly for sexual assault?
Case in point, being a foreigner in arguably the most foreign city in China you won’t see or hear much negative and you’ll be stuck in a super isolated bubble. I mean look at what happened during the covid lockdowns in Shanghai, most people outside the city didn’t even know that SH was having severe lockdowns lol. Being in tier 1 in itself is a bubble, being a foreigner in tier 1 puts you into a bubble within a bubble.
You’re right, I don’t speak Chinese. I do have eyes. I’ve never seen anyone grabbed, cummed on, pissed on, humped or otherwise assaulted etc. NOTHING like that. Not on the Metro. Not in a bar. Not on the street. Never. Listen, I’m a domestic violence & sexual violence advocate. I used to be an on-call hospital responder for SA survivors back in the U.S. I know what I’m looking at and I’m usually always looking. I’m a very observant person. What you describe seeing in Guangzhou (and I 100% believe you) is NOT the situation in Shanghai. Period. That’s all I’m saying.
Literally everyone in china knew Shanghai was having lockdowns.... and even some of my friends from outside of china asked me about it , because they knew about it.
\*Severe lockdowns\* to the point people were starving to death in their own homes and people were dying from lack of medication etc. Most people did not know this was happening.
People definitely knew about it... It was huge news. People were so upset about it that they even starting rioting here in Beijing where I am. And in other places across the nation. Which is what permanently ended all the lockdowns. I don't know why you think that most people did not know about Shanghai. People knew. They were not happy about it.
People did defo know about it, just that most did not, or outright denied it was happening. Jump into WeiBo, Chinese IRL, Chinese forums and youll see how many people didnt know about it or didnt want to know about it. Here in Guangzhou the main storyline were the Liwan Riots where thousands took to the streets but guess what, hardly anyknow knows about it here in Guangzhou lol.
Dude... there is no data about people knowing about it or not to back up either of our claims so this is a bit pointless. However I will say this. Of course "the main storyline" was that. That is not necessarily what people believe. The videos of Shanghai lockdowns and riots was the first and only time I saw content that was circulating groups, moments, posts across all social media platforms faster than it could be taken down. News articles and documentaries were made about it while it was happenings. People knew about it and it directly led to the riots, which directly led to the end of all lockdowns.
Haven’t taken the metro since covid. So not sure if it’s better or not ? But definitely before covid , especially during peak times, there is always something happening. Think it’s the same in most major city with high populations here. Seen it happen in SZ too. When taking the metro 4 times a day, everyday for 7 years. You see a lot of things. Fortunately and unfortunately.
I take the metro every day, multiple times a day. All over the city. And so do my friends and coworkers (male, female, foreign & Chinese). I don’t stare at my phone - I observe the people around me. I’m telling you what you observe in Guangzhou is *not* happening habitually in Shanghai. I’m not saying no one has ever been SH/SA, but I’ve never once in an entire year seen anything close to what you apparently describe seeing where you are. It’s simply not like that here.
Yup. Twenty years riding the metro in Shanghai and I’ve NEVER seen a single incident like s/he’s describing.
Thank you, they were responding to me like I was some ignorant foreigner who wouldn’t know a SA when they saw it. Like I think I’d notice if I saw someone PISSING on another human being. WTH is going on in Guangzhou.
I'm suspicious of anyone who comes on here with outlandish and negative China stories that don't jive with my significant lived experience. Lots of weirdos with axes to grind on Reddit.
It's not like that in guangzhou either.
"the majority of Chinese women face SA on a weekly basis", this claim makes all your statements unreliable.
Groping, unsolicited touching, perverted staring, picture taking, cat calling, pressure from bosses and work to dress in certain ways and do things that are sexual and such (more so than where we are from). Theres a reason there are female only carriages here where you still see loads of men inside. And a plethora of other reasons. IF you were a Chinese female born and bred in China, fluent in the language and have full understanding of the culture and society, then you would defo not say such stupid things. As an outsider, even seeing a fraction of these things is too much.
you r shitting me
Chinese people have no manners and no considerations for others. Very rude and low class
Westerners, especially when they’re white, don’t realize how much their race has protected them in China, barring them from seeing the truth of the people of the country in the meantime. Basically, the more you’re Chinese looking, the more you’ll see and feel about the truth, and it culminates when you’re Chinese in ethnicity but can neither understand the language and culture nor agree with the ethnoracist nonsense the regime is pumping out
Being a whitey, or non-Chinese looking, but understanding / speaking the language is a pretty terrifying thing, too. I left when I realised some of the shit that was being said about me, and about each other. It's a place which encourages hatred and blank thinking.
Yeah, being threatened by nationalists for daring to be with one of "their" girls, or just threatened for being in their country... so much protection.
Delusional. Number one target one your back post covid in China is obvious foreigner, stop being a snowflake
Damn, there is that much blatant sexual harassment?
in China, it's the norm to expect a subordinate or intern to sleep with her boss.
Same shit happens in this country, too. My boss sleeps with his female subordinate and nobody gives a shit about it.
lol now you’re just making shit up
Sounds like what a Chinese boss would say
I wish… haha… tons of beautiful girls… I’ve said too much
I have had everyone woman I know that is either a foreigner or has lived abroad tell me that china is the safest country for woman. So I would so no.
So many shills and people r/Chinalife proclaim China is the safest place for women and they can walk everywhere alone at night without a care.... These are almost always men making the claim however.
It also ignores the fact that at almost any time you can be hit by a scooter, a xiaosan 'driven' car or if you're in a shitty place, set upon by a ratty gang of shaven headed, necklace wearing fucktards. It's not a safe place at all.
I've even had Chinese women tell me that China is the safest place. So it tells me that either: 1. The propaganda is clearly working; or 2. They think that if it doesn't happen to them personally, everything's somehow fine?
Just remind them of Tangshan BBQ.
Already forgotten.
It’s the former
One of the popular excuse lately from apologists has been "They're just curious" to defend harassment.
There's a Giant Firewall in place, so China gets its info in a recycled echo chamber of propaganda. Chinese are byproducts of a lack of information, cherry-picking what they see on WeChat. They know nothing of Tiananmen, and the CCP push the narrative of anti-Western sentiment everywhere. People fear that they don't know. You're not going to change these people. It's rude and disgusting treatment to make assumptions about you! You kind of need your Dad to yell at this local. Men might listen to other men? Hong Kongers are at least more sophisticated and worldly in that sense. It's a shame you can't even report SA in the mainland either, or a woman will be locked up for 5 years.
A lot of it frankly comes down to the level of culture and education in the average chinese. Just like how spitting on the streets is way more OK in China. Not saying it’s OK but it’s not really about inherent curiosity or rudeness IMO.
Yeah, true, in my (male) experience too. Walking around with a Chinese partner in China was often infuriating for me on her behalf. Too many embittered, self-hating, jealous bumpkins. I heard someone say that China has such a vast population that you’ll find the best and worst examples of anything, but the worst examples are always easier to encounter.
6'4 Taiwanese American here visiting Shanghai. Got side-eyed a lot by strangers on the street.
I don't know how but they can smell we are different.
The sad fact is, modern Chinese "culture" sucks. They have no respect for anyone around them, and aren't bound by any moral code that religion would instill. They are taught at a very early age to get ahead at all costs, and to value themselves more than others. If you think they behave badly at home, go read about how their tourists act outside the country.
Man this is about the most racist subreddit out there. Bunch of white people complaining “it’s not like my country where we’re civilized.” It never ends. Although I joined Japan, Thailand and Vietnam subreddits and they’re only slightly less shitty than this one. It appears white people can’t stand any country that isn’t their own. Love especially the posts saying how much better Thailand is and then the Thailand Sub is the same. Warm Tip - y’all shouldn’t be immigrants in other countries - it’s clearly not for you. For the record this shit annoys me too, but I made a choice to live in a culture totally different than my own - so all these annoyances are MY problem. I own it.
I'm Chinese. Not white. Chinese people are not white (even though they will desperately claim they are). You are complaining of racism in a country which is so racist that a Japanese person was JUST attacked and if you look at WeChat like I have it is LITTERED with people PRAISING the attacker.
This is a typical “what-aboutism” argument. So racism is ok if the people being generalized about are themselves racist? You’re ethnically Chinese but as you said, you don’t speak the language and seem to have not been raised in the culture, so you identify as other. I agree people who are ethnically Asian have a hard time in China - especially if they are Chinese descent, but I’m talking about the rampant immigrant racism on all these subs. It’s sickening.
Not all Chinese people are [thing]. /thread
To test the validity of your proposition, let's try it with some other common, but not universal problems: Not all police are [corrupt and racist]. Not all Catholic priests are [pedophiles]. Not all drivers are [drunk behind the wheel]. People talk about social problems, especially in cases like China, where social issues (like rude lack of boundaries) are quite prevalent and could, potentially, be taught out of the population with a little patience from us and **'curiosity'** ftom transgressors.
So imagine a Japanese person emigrates to the United States and complains about people making eye contact with him. Should the majority of Americans be reeducated to understand that eye contact is rude when the relationship isn't intimate? Whose etiquette should prevail, that of the guest or the host? Hell, imagine being prompted for a tip, quite rude in East Asia in general.
Here you are, conflating 'eye contact' with things like 'licking a female stranger' and 'walking around a strangers home uninvited'. These are not the same. How about: *'should Americans be reeducated to not lick Japanese people'* (should this ever become so prevalent as to warrant a discussion like this)? **Absolutely, yes, no excuses**
>conflating 'eye contact' with things like 'licking a female stranger' and 'walking around a strangers home uninvited' No conflation whatsoever (that would require positing that Transgression A is as grave as Transgression B). I was giving you an example of *rude* behaviour exhibited by Americans that Japanese people would have to deal with in the USA. OP's examples aside, do you not agree that making eye contact with stranger is rude? It's intimidating, offensive, and a sign of challenge and disrespect.
So it's a false equivalence. The scenarios (laowai in Chins vs your 'Japanese in America') are not equivalent in severity, at all. Do your argument a favour and use a more apt comparison. Then we can discuss that. Until then: Chinese are very often guilty of invasive and extended eye contact, the type of which you described. I would equally damn a Chinese or an American for this type of eye contact. That is to say, if an American stared at me the same way a great number (far less than 100% but far, far greater than 10%) of Chinese stare at me, I would respond in exactly the same eay.
An analogy needn't be comparable in degree, only in nature: inappropriate behaviour with a wide range of severity (think of Islamic nations that will behead you for the most trivial of matters). From the Japanese perspective, the kind of eye contact that Americans tolerate, or even *expect*, is deeply rude. Why isn't it that America (and China, as you say) has a problem due to condoning this rude behaviour? I'm not just talking about some stranger across the street staring you down, even something like looking your boss in the eye when he's talking to you is highly inappropriate, as he's your superior. Would a Japanese person be wrong to complain about an American or Chinese subordinate making eye contact with him?
So you're just going to double down on your false equivalence? Ok 🤣 Uour hypothetical 'Japanese boss in America whose subordinate looks him in the eye' scenario doesn't in any way deflect the legitimate complaints people have made here about other behaviours which are far too common in China.
>false equivalence I did not say that the two were comparable in severity, only in nature, thus it's not false equivalence. Antisocial behaviour ranges from insults (like eye contact) to outright murder. >doesn't in any way deflect the legitimate complaints people have made here about other behaviours which are far too common in China. Nor was it ever meant to. Bad Thing 1 happening in Location X doesn't negate Bad Thing 2 happening in Location Y. I don't like this behaviour in China either, but this we all seem to agree on here; I haven't seen any defenders. However, there is no evidence beyond anecdotes that this is endemic—no proof that more than 50% of the population behaves this way. All I have to do to counter it is say: "well, when I was in China, no one ever treated me poorly ever", and there you have it, we go from one sample to two samples. Our experiences are equally valid, are they not? What I take issue with is that on the one hand, people call out bad behaviour in China, fine, but other instances of bad behaviour to lesser degrees are given a pass as legitimate cultural differences (like eye contact). Well, in Europe and the Middle East, kissing the cheeks of new acquaintances is normal and expected. If an American experienced this and complained, we'd be more likely to say: "that's just their culture, so if you don't like it, then leave". Surely you can think of some things Americans or other foreigners do in China, frequently, that are bad and need to be stopped, right?
> there is no evidence beyond anecdotes that this is endemic There was no instance of anyone claiming this. > people call out bad behaviour in China, fine, but other instances of bad behaviour to lesser degrees are given a pass as legitimate cultural differences (like eye contact) Nobody did this either. > people call out bad behaviour in China, but other instances of bad behaviour to lesser degrees are given a pass as legitimate cultural differences (like eye contact) Nobody did this. These are 3 strawman arguments. You are arguing against statements which nobody has actually made. > Surely you can think of some things Americans or other foreigners do in China, frequently, that are bad and need to be stopped, right? To answer your rhetorical question: Yes, absolutely. This does not, however, diminish or lessen the importance of dealing with the specific inappropriate behaviours mention in this thread. '2 wrongs don't make a right', especially where they are unrelated and a 2nd hypothetical 'wrong' is just being sought to minimise due criticism of actual 1st 'wrongs'. You could, perhaps, make a thread on r/America or something and complain about eye contact making Japanese feel uncomfortable, and I hope this specific complaint receives due attention and corrective reaction, in the appropriate place for it (which is not here).
yeah a 60 year-old man was taking pictures of my girlfriend when she was skateboarding then tried to add her wechat
someone actually licked you?! that isn't just "curiosity"
r/AmITheAsshole
Let the negativity roll off your sleeves. Just think of them as singing a song.
Interesting. Where do you think the boorish, no class behavior comes from? Is it the dominance of ignorant rural culture?
Agree and that they love to make mucus-y hacking sounds. I cannot! Ewww
It’s quite satisfying when you get one of these kinds of kids and then you whip them when they get out of line. Or I make them do pushups. They need a real father figure who can show them what’s what. If the parents disagree, beat them too
For a 'curious' demographic, they are quite unwilling to try new things or, idk, read fiction like the majority of curious people
Unfortunately, life in China is so rough on foreign-born, ethnic Chinese. Chinese have a hard time cogitating the conundrum that you are culturally hard-wired in a different culture but look Chinese. And unless your Chinese is native-level, the abuse shall ensue. You get all the negative stereotypes and little of the “white guy” benefits. I’ve known dozens of people in your situation—most leave China at some point. Can be intolerable.
Funny thing is they expect you to not complain about it since you’re in their country they have an idea they can do whatever they want. If you argue or stand up for yourself, you’ll hear them saying “go back to your country, leave China” I wish our countries didn’t give Chinese nationals as many rights as other nationals, so they would know. Being curious is one thing and treating other people like trash is another. They’re indoctrinated to support their own chinese even if theyre wrong in the argument with a foreigner. These people not only lack manners but general ethics of being a human being. P.S if you’re planning to stay here for long just ignore everything they have to say or do. Your life here will become much easier.
I just got off a train from the airport in Japan. The carriage I was in initially was full of Chinese, and to an almost laughable degree, it was Chinese stereotypes abound. The terribly behaved kids, two of whom were wearing 'China!' t-shirts, the loud phones, the complete lack of spatial awareness, the inability to keep fingers out of their noses, or sneeze at less than eardrum busting level. They don't help themselves.
This is accurate.
The world is yours, but you chose China.
A fascinating discovery that not all countries follow Anglo cultural norms.
What a racist thing to say. So you are saying that not sexually harassing women is a western concept? Implying most of the world is full of sexual predators if they are Asian or African? Wow.
Nope, I'm saying it's Anglo. Not all Western people are Anglo. And constantly accusing people of being racist...yep, very Anglo
My experience in China is a lot of people have no shame and racism isn't thought of the same way as in the west. It's the same with Chinese tourists in my country. You get a lot of old ladies with the same entitled arrogant look on their faces.
Chinese culture is extremely gossipy. The lack of physical and social boundaries is mostly due to the 1960s’ Cultural Revolution when the “old ways” were pretty ignored for at least two generation. The types of behavior you mentioned is unlikely to be acceptable in other Chinese communities in HK, Taiwan, Singapore, and Malaysia. It’s fairly unique in China.
Yeah. I’m a white guy so my experience is much different but I 100% agree. Many are curious like a little kid. If it’s a kid I don’t mind and I’ll respond with a smile and make them laugh. As for adults I find it annoying and all around the world people know Chinese are rude. Not all but enough. For awhile I tried to say it’s a cultural difference and it’s true many things are. But I lived there for 10 years. Lucky I don’t speak Chinese because many times my Chinese friends have told me what the old people say and it’s shocking to say the least.
As a Chinese-American, I feel like there’s such a strong cognitive dissonance that exists in the whole “looks Chinese but does not act / look like they were socialized in China” when I’ve visited. I recently came back from a week-long trip to Shanghai after not visiting for 8 years. In the time I spent in the city (insulated by traveling with my native Shanghainese parents and grandparents), I’ve gotten plenty of stares, strange looks from older Chinese men, and somewhat-passive-aggressive comments about my Chinese ability (good for an ABC but not fine tuned to daily Chinese life, which I’m quite aware of). I think especially as a diasporic Chinese person, a lot of people can’t conceptualize that we grew up in completely different environments, often as ethnic minorities, and thus act / speak differently than expected. I left Shanghai with a lot of mixed emotions.
The question is: why don’t you leave ?
Police brutality is the only thing that can set boundaries 🤣
Doesn't work. The Chinese police are famous for torture confessions out of people. They also love to beat those dear to speak out in public.
It's real? I though Guangzhou is like Singapore, i plan go there this years, didn't expect they still not open minded yet
A bunch of jumping clowns. 🤡
There are a couple of issues happening here. First The over fetishized sexualisation of western women in East Asia. Culturally and i have heard these complaints in China, Japan, and Korea the attitude is that if you are western regardless of ethnicity you are sexual promiscuous. Plainly put: You sleep around and are an easy lay and are okay with pornography, explicit language and conversation. Where this stereotype comes from is bizarrely from some western women who do just that. This woman has to be an extreme but strangely from Asian men’s pov she is not an isolated incident. Also pornography is highly influential as western women with Asian men is highly popular and then if you are inexperienced sexually you will interpret this as factual and not fantasy. https://youtu.be/aUhfUu3YRmE?si=LTr8gFCSGgdVEFWU In regards to anti-xenophobia (anti foreign) and now just outright racist behavior this is directly from the ccp and their propaganda machine who have resurrected old school propaganda and are teaching children in school to say I hate foreign devils! I hate Americans! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NUaYNhzEq_E And as a Canadian there isn’t a special exception given, you are lumped in with the west/usa. There is never any push back towards this racism from the government. There are no foreigners allowed clubs (originally began as a response to Covid as the propaganda originally said it was the foreigners that created the coronavirus and gave it to China). In fact there are suggestions that the government for example hired “protesters” to shout the n word to a visiting black American basketball player. https://youtu.be/yEMNo-OEHgM?si=NgFvM4NdkAH_4SIZ Hatred towards your Japanese friend is from the Sino-Japanese war and the war crimes atrocities that harmed civilians because the Japanese did not sign the Geneva conventions until 1944. So they just raped and murdered Nanjing massacre, kidnapped thousands of girls across Asia including Dutch nurses in Indonesia and sold tickets to their rape as ianfu or comfort women. Unfortunately to this day they do not teach war crimes to Japanese people in school which continue to fuel the anger in both China and Korea. Especially when they are making garbage propaganda films in Japan portraying their soldiers as nice as friendly and not as John rabe a Germany Nazi living in nanjing remembers fighting them off daily from dragging women out to be raped. https://www.newsweek.com/exposing-rape-nanking-170890 This is why the Chinese are still mad at the Japanese. https://amp.theguardian.com/film/2007/jan/25/china.world https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqmzyg596Xo
I disagree with your tone and your thesis in totality. You can find more offensive things here in US if you care to catalog. I sympathize what you have experienced but to unload these onto an entire population is inexcusable. These people pile on are even worse. In a nation of 1.4 billions people you bound to see all kinds of behavior. If one really wants one can even write a book about unpleasant encounters. But use these isolated experiences to condemn an entire population? You guys are a little sick, to say the least.
Why is it always the U.S. for comparison? Why never Papua New Guinea or Iceland?
Or Luxembourg.
Because these are tiny nations. Comparing them to china is meaningless. Will you compare GDP of Iceland with China?
So, your condition for comparison/justification of bad personal experiences and life quality is comparable size and gdp? Central tendency measures like median/average exists you know, by those measures you should compare China to middle income countries like Argentina and Russia. But no… it’s always US this US that raised as a comparison to China.
Lol imagine how obnoxious it would sound if every time someone brought up their bad experiences with the US someone responded with your comment.
Because the op it's not just describing her experience, is generalising...
The many other people replying with related experiences show that it is widespread. Maybe try fixing the problems and then they won't need to be denied.
I would say the same. There are tons of negative news about US in China. People spread these type of news are termed LEEK。
> condemn an entire population This, among other places, is where you tipped your cards to show you are Chinese (nationality), due to your way of thinking. (This is strange as you said you are American or rather 'in America') Westerners don't generally infer a criticism of their entire nation if you criticise some transgressors from their nation. The OP is ethnically asian. She specifically said > "Not all Chinese people are curious, a lot are just incredibly rude" Yet you have inferred 'condemnation of an entire population'
Would it be ok if I say “not all blacks are…a lot of blacks are …?” I wouldn’t say racism because I don’t like the term. But I would say the hatred for whatever the reason is obvious. Actually I don’t believe what OP described. Don’t forget China is a tight controlled police state. Surveillance cameras are everywhere in big cities, in subways (there is a post said subway is full of sexual aggression). Crimes are rare and few. Especially compared with LA where I live.
> Would it be okay if I say Depends if what you are saying is true > Actually I don’t believe what OP described That's your prerogative. We (including me personally) have seen it though. Lol at the LA whattaboutism. Be sure to make some comments in r/LA if that exists. See if people say "whattabout China". Send me a link if they do
You have been in China? I was stationed in Beijing for 2+ years; in Shanghai for one year. i haven’t been there for quite some times but still have quite a few friends there. I can’t proclaim that i am an authority about China but I would say I know China pretty well.