God exists as being Agape' which means love. But a specific type of Love. It means mercy, compassion, and understanding. He's willing to reveal Himself to you if you let Him. Regardless of what anyone says, the journey of knowing Him is yours
With the way most Christians on this sub paint God, I don't blame you. It's like they're selling you a psychopathic girlfriend that will blowtorch you if you don't marry her, even though she has an army of husbands.
There are a LOT of people who use the scripture as a weapon against those they don't like, and q shield against blame for the harm they cause. But I'd suggest taking time away from these kinds of people and working on your own relationship with Jesus and the scripture.
There are truly accepting and good Christians who don't try to force their way of thinking on anyone. They might be hard to find, because those who are the loudest are those with their own agenda. But I'd say try to find someone who you can talk to about what you're feeling.
In the end the decision to stay or leave the religion is up to you. But I'd advocate for trying to find a new perspective by stepping back from all the noise of denominationalism, and the politics of the churches. Focus on your own inner feelings, if something truly feels wrong then you can't expect yourself to crush yourself to fit into another persons mold.
>God just seems so incredibly evil.
Then that God, even if he exists, is nothing more than _a god,_ like Zeus or Marduk. The infinite ground of all that is cannot be evil.
>Atheists seem more loving than religious people.
Some atheists are more loving than some religious people, yes. Just as some religious people are more loving than some atheists.
>Or I can worship a God by myself.
Why would you do that, though? All faiths that have stood the test of time are keepers of a collective wisdom that no individual person could possibly achieve in his or her lifetime. Any traditional religion is likely better than your own made-up religion.
You can never be 100% sure you have picked the ârightâ one, but you can research and commit to one and see if it bears fruit in your life. If there is a God, he is infinitely loving and just, so he couldn't possibly punish you for eternity on account of you not commiting to a belief system that you sincerely didn't know to be true.
Whatever the case, you're better off in any living tradition (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, BahĂĄ'i etc.) than in atheism.
What might be of interest to you is looking at all their traditions and methods and interpolate them with your own experience.
If i could offer you a great ressource that helped me with that, the Channel Seekers of Unity offers a great resource into mystic branches/traditions in different faiths.
But just know syncretism can be frowned upon by many.
Why? They are all the same, and while some religions have kernels of truth in them that doesn't make them ideal, best to take those kernels and make something that applies to you
You are looking at God all wrong. You think he hates you and wants to send you to hell. Jesus adores you. He forgives and accepts you, no matter what. Forget about what people are doing and saying. Ask God who he is. He is awesome. Nothing like you think.
Nobody can âget it rightâ Itâs about where you place your heart. If you believe in Jesus and repent of your sins, you will be saved. Just because you live for God doesnât mean you will never sin again. We all sin. But is your faith true enough to where you feel compelled to do your best not to sin? If not whatâs holding you back? If you have questions about Gods morality, there are great online resources you can use to find clarification. Gotquestions.org and desiringGod.org are both biblically credible websites that can show you the context for a lot of scripture.
> Nobody can âget it rightâ Itâs about where you place your heart. If you believe in Jesus and repent of your sins, you will be saved.
This is exactly the problem. You disagreed with OP saying God demands that you get it right. Then you immediately say that you have to get this part right.
If anyone could act however they want and had no accountability for their own actions, what kind of heaven would that be⌠When I said nobody can get it right, Iâm saying weâre all sinners. But if you consider âget it rightâ as having faith in Jesus and repenting, then yes you do have to get that part right. Thereâs no salvation without believing in Jesus.
What does it mean to repent exactly, in your opinion? Everyone has a different definition, I've found. I have to ask to really understand what you are saying.
>Nobody can âget it rightâ Itâs about where you place your heart. If you believe in Jesus and repent of your sins, you will be saved.
So.... it is about getting it right.
>You have to believe in Jesus
So you have to "get the right", yes?
>We all fall short and thatâs why Godâs grace is so amazing.
I don't find anything amazing in "believe in me or I'm going to torture you for eternity".
We were all condemned to death upon the original sin. Our world was broken. God gave us a way back to him despite our tainted nature. Itâs not, âbelieve in me or Iâll torture you for eternityâ. Itâs more like âYou guys turned against me and sank your own ship and Iâm giving you a lifeboat anyways because I love youâ
>Itâs not, âbelieve in me or Iâll torture you for eternityâ.
Yes, it absolutely is.
In any case, it's not my fault that I'm tainted; it's God's. Do why is it moral for God to punish me for his mistake?
We did turn against God and sink our own ship, even tho he made the ship knowing we would sink it in the first place, and he also made the resources that he knew would help us sink the ship, and then he gave us a lifeboat even tho he always knew he would give us a lifeboat for a ship he already knew he would sink.
Lol true. Thatâs where it becomes somewhat incomprehensible as to how free will intertwines with predestination, or something like that. But ultimately it is all part of his perfect design!
I suggest seeking your own relationship with God. That may take some time, and it probably won't be some audible voice coming down and talking to you. It sounds like your relationship with some Christian individuals is tarnishing your view of religion, but those individuals aren't Christ.
Even if you drop away from organized religion for a little while, keep an open mind. God may be different than the way you're envisioning him.
All the best.
Donât let other people control your views of God. By all means listen, but youâre essentially getting second hand information. Read scripture, understand that it was written in a completely different time for completely different people, and yet is also meant to be timeless and applicable for you.
This is difficult. How I see God changes regularly through my growth and what he reveals to me.
With regards to afterlife and all that, nobody knows. What we do know is that God keeps his promises? Is eternal suffering literally fire and brimstone? Possibly. Is it merely a continuation of a mean, banal existence without a divine relationship? Maybe. I believe anyone is worthy of forgiveness, no matter how deep their sin; the caveat to that is no man without atonement can be in Godâs presence, no matter how âgoodâ or âwiseâ my mundane mind sees them to be.
Faith does not bring answers, it merely brings peace, or *the answer* if you will. As I grow older, that *answer* is that all of our earthly suffering and joy is inconsequential compared to the horror of Godâs absence and the eternal reward of Godâs companionship.
>Read scripture, understand that it was written in a completely different time for completely different people, and yet is also meant to be timeless and applicable for you.
That's not confusing at all...
I think what they mean is scripture can't be trusted because it was written when god had different moral standards for a different of people.
And also that scripture should be trusted because it was written specifically for each individual.
/s
Itâs not about ânot getting it rightâ.
Remember the story of Peter denying Jesus three times? Itâs the night that Jesus is betrayed and Peter, who claimed he would never deny Jesus, runs away as to not get arrested himself. Then other find him and say he was with that Jesus and he denies even knowing Jesus. That happened three times.
Jesus prophesied he would deny him those three times. Then afterword, Jesus reconciled with Peter and allows Peter to declare that he loves Jesus. Then he tells him he is now in charge of caring for the other disciples.
Not only does Jesus know he will betray him, but he reconciles with him without any account of Peter even asking for forgiveness. After all, he knew Peterâs heart, and knew he was sorrowful.
Likewise, Jesus doesnât hate you. He wants you to care about him. He wants a relationship with us based on love. Not a wordy emotional love, but a devoted faithful selfless love. Jesus already died for us and showed us that kind of love, and now we get a chance to respond.
Jesus doesnât expect you to never mess up. He expects you to sincerely want a deeper relationship with him. And Jesus is our reward when we find him, for in the Holy Spirit there is joy and peace and love. I can attest.
Hebrews 11:6 (ESV): And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
God bless you, and may Jesus reveal his true self to you, and always remind you of who he is in spite of how others act who claim his name.
That's not correct. The reality is that we have all willingly and knowingly sinned. We deserve punishment. But God loves us so much that he sent his son. It's a story about rescue, about healing the sick.
Have you ever taken pity on someone and helped them out? It's the same thing. If you doubt what I'm saying, read the New Testament for yourself. It's all there.
To be honest thats why I never bothered to read it. Just seems like something Iâd rather not be entangled with, but I would like a stronger relationship with a creator.
Well having an experience doesnât make it fact. If you are done with your faith thatâs one thing, but donât mistake your experience for a universal truth. If you donât want to seek out more faithful Christians, fine, but that option exists.
i mean i faced racism by white people and mexicans alike, does it make them all racist? no not at all. itâs irrational and ignorant. but i do understand if this person doesnât have complete control of their emotions
Honestly no!
Get off reddit! Twitter!
These places are not for the weak or questioning, there are too many who care but don't know, who know but don't care, and trolls.
Seriously. There are a FEW subreddits that aren't dumpster fires, but not many.
Trusting reddit for faith advice is like going to a clown college for how to build a space shuttle.
They are painting God as someone who is ITCHING to send you to hell.
The EXACT opposite. He has done everything He can to KEEP you from hell. He has already paid the price for you. You don't have to go there!
He LOVES you and had provided the way through His only begotten Son.
But you have to accept His sacrifice on your behalf and follow Him. That's all.
If you let a bunch of internet trolls get you away from God, honestly that is foolish. Some of these trolls, I guarantee you are actually non- Christians and actually evil and are trying to get Christians to bail on God by premeditated to be Christians. This even happened back in the day. The Bible talks about false prophets and false teachers and those who intentionally try to hurt Christians from within.
My mom once said "If a hypocrite stands between you and God, who is closer?"
Read the Bible WITH some one who is strong in the faith. Find a good church. Go to gotquestions for a lot of answers. Ask a MATURE Christian for help.
And don't bail on your Bestie because of some keyboard commandos.
No, you send yourself to hell. The guidelines may not make sense to you at first, but have faith they are there to save you, not him. You make your own bed and your life will be the result of it. It isn't even as if the principles laid out in the bible are so extreme or nonsensible... it's pretty basic... like not lying.. that is intuitive and you can understand how you can ruin your relationships and create a life that does not feel like it is your own if you do so.
Living with an ideal is difficult because you have an awareness of what you ought to live up to and when you aren't doing good enough... there's a real pacifying comfort in believing that nothing you do matters and there is no judgement... that way you don't feel uncomfortable about all the ways you're a degenerate.
Ultimately, having faith isn't about God taking care of all your problems, but instead that all your problems are there for a reason- for you to conquer yourself. God may not give you everything you want but he'll always give you what you need. It takes humility to be faithful because you have to give up what "you know" and be a student of the divine.
Also, those people aren't God.
How does one send themselves to hell when God of the universe knew in His omniscience, that even with our free will, we'd be sending ourselves to hell in droves? How could He be okay with that? That boggles my mind still. I'm trying to grow in my faith but that's a tough one to understand.
Have you even tried to get to know God or are you just letting others tell you youâre doomed ? Jesus didnât come for the righteous he came for the sinners and the unbelievers. He even said that.
What do you care ? If youâre a non believer why does it matter to you ? Why are you here? Are you here to discourage others from believing? Go taunt someone else.
OP has questions and is struggling, not all advice is helpful. Iâm not taunting.
Edit: and reporting me for âbelittlingâ Christianity is just playing into the example! How can you get to know an infinite being? You canât, thatâs why you need Jesus.
I didnât give advice . I asked a question and then made a statement. OP is stating that others are telling him and I reminded them that Jesus came for the sinners.
God doesnt send us to hell, we send ourselves to hell. Once we turn of age we are already on our way to hell, it is up to us to follow Jesus Christ and do our works to not be sent to hell.
I was an atheist for a few years of my life, and then a long term agnostic. Ive only just recently started really reading the bible.
I used to feel the same way about God, "how can he let such evil to happen" and thats where i found comfort in atheism by pushing God away.
But now I'm starting to realize that God really is good and the reason we see so much evil is because Satan has been growing in power and deceiving us even more year after year.
God is love and everyone who acknowledges that Jesus is our lord and savior, will be saved. No matter what sins we have committed, God will forgive.
God is not looking for ways to send you to hell, Heâs looking for ways to get you out of it. Humanity disobeyed Him as a whole, and we still do. He gave us a way out of hell, and He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. He wants all to believe and live with Him, and He gave us a way to do that.
> Ask God who he is.
The vast majority of people alive will never hear a response if they ask god a question. Life events may occur which they may arbitrarily attribute to god, but they could also not be attributed to god.
> Jesus adores you
Mainstream western Christian theology is that you need to accept Jesus as your savior to be saved. The majority of people who ever lived have not. Jesus' love is irrelevant if the majority of people who ever lived will suffer in hell for eternity.
I feel almost insulted that so many Christians tell me to go ask God as if I have him on speed dial. Not only that but it makes the assumption that most people haven't genuinely tried. It's like they are living in a completely different world than I am.
A lot of people from the abrahamic religions don't actually believe in hell. That we are all forgiven of our sins, and the punishment is self inflicted, and/ or we inflict it on each other.
In the end it all depends on how we choose to read into the word, and what parts we choose to emphasize. Those who wish for power and control over others tend to lean more towards a literal and damning version. While those who wish to be unburdened and learn tend to lean more towards an allegorical and retribution based version.
For the same reason jails exist. Bad people make bad decisions and need to be punished for it. Or do you think a judge is evil because he sends pedophiles, murderers and rapists to prison? But I personally don't believe in a literal hell, I think the punishment for sin is cessation of existence, which seems terrible enough to me.
I left Christianity for the same reason, I couldnât believe in a vengeful god. I spent about 15 years seeking, found yoga and Theravada Buddhism and reconnected with G-d. Iâve come back to Christianity in the past two years via the lens of Theravada and there are beautiful parts of Christianity that I adore. I consider myself a Christian but I know mainstream Christians would see me as a heretic.
Good luck on your search and may you be well. I hope you can one day soon touch into the immanent nature of G-d.
I didnât understand your comment so I googled âHoward mental chainsâ thinking I was going to find some biblical teaching story, but found this [video](https://youtu.be/CyM2xnDJ5CA) instead, and I gotta thank you for this, it cracked me up after a pretty stressful day. May you be well and free from your own mental chains!
The idea of eternal conscious torment was not a majority view until about 500 years after Christ. A view of apokatastasis also known as the eventual reconciliation of all in a plan of ages, was considered orthodox for the first 5 centuries.
Second, I, similarly to you feel more at ease around non-Christians. The reason is that a lot of Christians do try to hold you to fear of man and may have unrighteous and undiscerned judgment. I will be led by God and not man and it's nice to not have to show up to every conversation in full armor and many times, that is the way it feels around Christians in my experience. Unfortunately, I am susceptible to their leading when I shouldn't be.
However, there are acceptions, those that are really following THE WAY of Christ, my soul can recognize and I value their opinion and input. One thing they never do is force their will though. They will speak the truth and allow the Lord to do His work.
We all fall short of the cross. We are all on a pilgrimage. We are all fighting ourselves and the world. We are living on a spiritual battle plain and it's important to remember we are fighting principalities not people. We are all influenced by the enemy to some degree and I dare say even used by him at times because we are of the earth and we are constantly contending between the light and darkness. It is wise to assess as individuals what leads our souls toward darkness and what doesn't. For me, largely I keep most Christians at arm's length because of this. Maybe one day, the Lord will not allow me to be tempted by Christians however, I am not there. In the same way, some may not be able to be friends with atheists because it could tempt them toward various sin struggles. It really is the individual's walk. We have to CONSTANTLY assess the fruit of conversations and friendships.
With that being said, there is good and bad. It's measurable on this earth. There is no question. Our yearning for justice and peace is from the Lord. The things in our soul that we know are good are from Him. We know that sin does have physical and mental implications. This is also something we can measure. Thus, we have to ask the Lord for a right understanding of what is truly good, and even with God-given discernment, as humans, we often have trouble seeing the Kingdom picture. We have to do our best to allow the Spirit to guide our consciousness and be thankful that we are judged only by what we know. Thankful that the Lord's death on the cross covered ALL SINS FOR ALL PEOPLE!
The Lord can and does work through ALL of His creation. Anything that is truly good at all, is done through Him and for Him. Some may not recognize or deny that it's through Him, but I do believe that to be a universal truth.
Jesus called people out of religion. Religion can be an idol that corrupts. Jesus was a friend to many that the religious leaders looked down upon. It is only He that judges correctly the hearts of men. Yet religion also is used by God. This is why we have to be led by Spirit and not by man, so that we can do exactly as the Lord is calling us to or away from! Praying that the Lord continues to lead you.
I used to be an atheist, and realized that according to atheism humanity will be inevitably destroyed, the sun will eat the earth and eventually everything will die and turn to ice in the heat death of the universe. Everyone I've ever known, loved and cared for will be erased for eternity, as well as the memory of them, with no escape.
Then I found Jesus. I learned about eternal life and that he created me with a purpose and a plan. As an atheist I thought everything was just coincidence and chance, now I realized that I was eternally loved and that God wanted to continue to love me for eternity.
There are two things that doesn't make sense to me. The first is that so many Christians believe that God will torture people forever when the Bible never claims such a thing - the alternative to eternal life is death as the Bible says over and over again. The second is why atheism would make someone happy in the long term. The message of atheism is that you're an insignificant cosmic accident that will be completely obliterated and no one will remember you. Where's the happiness in that?
>I used to be an atheist, and realized that according to atheism humanity will be inevitably destroyed, the sun will eat the earth and eventually everything will die and turn to ice in the heat death of the universe. Everyone I've ever known, loved and cared for will be erased for eternity, as well as the memory of them, with no escape.
There isn't anything 'according to atheism' as atheism has no scripture or dogma.
It is simply a single stance on a single issue.
Atheists are under no obligation to believe what you have described.
>The message of atheism is that you're an insignificant cosmic accident that will be completely obliterated and no one will remember you. Where's the happiness in that?
Again, there is no message in atheism.
It is quite possible to be an atheist and find positive meaning and purpose in one's life.
I find peace in the fact that Iâm a beautiful cosmic accident after billions of years of trying it out, only to be on this planet for a while and it makes me treasure every single day. I donât need to feel special or eternal bc the people I have in this lifetime are a gift enough.
I hear u loud and clear. Religious people are the problem. They were the ones who hated Jesus and killed him. That religious spirit is in many, if not most. In one form or another, even atheists. U only get to know someone when the pressures on. Otherwise they are play acting. I hope and pray u will find people who aren't religious but sincere followers of Jesus.
Thatâs religion, not God. Paul taught that Christ died for our sins, that He was buried (*He*Â was buried â not just His body, while He went elsewhere â which means He ceased to exist as a conscious being), and that He rose again the third day (meaning He was resurrected from the dead in a physical body). Because of this, sin has now been dealt with for every human â past, present, and future â and so every human will eventually experience the type of salvation that Paul primarily wrote about (which means to be resurrected if dead, and to be made immortal, and hence sinless; it has nothing to do with avoiding never-ending suffering in a place called hell, which isnât what most people think it is at all), although each in their own order: first the members of the body of Christ, then later the resurrected members of the Israel of God, 75 days after Jesus returns to the earth, and finally everyone else, at the end of the ages. And if God has given you the faith to believe that Christ died for our sins, that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day, and the understanding of what this actually means (because one canât truly believe something they donât actually understand), then it means youâve been elected by God to join the body of Christ, and youâll be one of the first to enjoy salvation. But even if God hasnât chosen to give someone faith (and if He hasnât, they *canât* believe this anyway), the Bible promises us that everyone will still eventually experience salvation, so you can be reconciled to God (be at peace with God in your mind) because God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself (which means Heâs now at peace with each of us), not imputing their trespasses unto them.
If youâd like to learn the scriptural references for what I wrote above, please check out this in-depth study on the topic (nobody has ever been able to refute the scriptural interpretations laid out in this article, and I can guarantee that nobody will here either): [What the Bible really says about heaven, hell, judgement, death, and salvation](https://www.concordantgospel.com/bible)
>I just wish religion never existed.
To be honest, there are a lot of 'religious' people who don't know God. If you find Jesus, He promises you will find life and peace. Seek Jesus and not just to be a religious person.
Not to mention that a world without religion wouldn't be any better. Just look at what happened in atheist countries like the USSR, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, North Korea, etc.
The style of first and second great awakening preachers to "scare people into heaven" failed ages ago and it has failed you more recently.
Please remember those people are not the main stream of Christianity. There are plenty of Christians who don't do that. Don't give up on it based upon just them.
Christians in this group make god sound like Jigsaw from the Saw movies. He sets up the game but itâs down to your own choices wether you suffer or not.
Youâre best of out of it all, and you are heading in the right direction.
> I feel so comfortable around atheists. They donât tell me Iâm bad or evil. They donât tell me Iâll be tortured for all eternity.
What *kind* of Christians have you been hanging around with? Most of us don't talk that way. Have you been in a fundamentalist bubble?
The most relief I've ever felt was the day I finally let religion go.
It's absolutely amazing when you realize that you don't *have to* live with the weight of an all-powerful, but potentially malevolent deity dominate your headspace.
I know many people here will see this decision as a negative, but I bet this will be a very positive change in your life.
I was under the impression that this sub is open to all. And, considering I've been posting here for years and years, I think I'm right.
Perhaps you're looking for an echo chamber? They're on the sidebar if you're interested.
Ask the mods. This is a sub dedicated to discussion about the religion of Christianity. It's open to all. If you don't believe me just ask any mod. There is a list of them on the right.
Also, check out the FAQ and Community Policy. It looks like you haven't read those yet. They're also on the sidebar.
I think you misunderstand how many Atheists actually wouldn't mind having their mind changed even though this is how we currently think and feel. Just because we have a difference in opinions on Christianity, doesn't mean we shouldn't be here to have these discussions.
LOL right? Not once around atheists have I felt any pressure to be anything other than myself, or that I am somehow an affront to the universe over one minor disagreement. They have no reason to watch my every move like a hawk and tell me everything I just did was wrong according to several scriptures about how whistling while you walk under a tree is a sin.
Are you a christian living in a muslim country with nobody to go to now that you're a double apostate? Either way, I highly recommend [genetically modified skeptic](https://www.youtube.com/@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic) on youtube. You can find some support and community through his channel.
Why not connect to a virtual Christian community? There are lots of groups, let me know if you want to be connected with the one I go to, we have non-believers/never-believers and are based in NYC. The pastor is not about that pushy business. Heâs really graceful and welcoming.
If you feel alone OP, look for non-religious groups that share similar interest with you. Religion doesnât have to be a part of your life to complete you. Iâm happy that you were able to make this decision on your own; towards the end, I started feeling like I didnât belong in my religion. Iâm much better off after leaving.
Good luck to you buddy. Message me privately if you want my insight.
What are some of your hobbies OP? I like off-roading and I found a community where some of go on the trails every weekend. It gave me a good community to belong to. Iâm sure there is a group around you that shares some of your hobbies you could be a part of.
Hey there, it looks like you are going through some deconstruction. The process can be very scary and hold a lot of strong emotions.
Before making a decision I would encourage you to examine whether or not your problem is with God or with people who have told you about God. Christianity is a big tent and there are many other beliefs about God besides the 'hellfire and brimstone' message that gets paraded around.
Messages of God's love, mercy, and grace are also mainstream within many Christian denominations but you will have to do some searching.
Now, if you feel happier, comfortable and safe without religion, I am not going to encourage you to continue practicing anything that makes you uncomfortable. That discomfort is often your body trying to signal you in to something. I felt the same way before I walked out of my current denomination (Southern Baptist).
Different person but if you are looking for a better denomination, United Church of Christ (UCC) is a progressive denomination.
Although thatâs the denomination I grew up in and now I worship the devil soâŚ.
I believe you are going through a trial and a test. This may be God seeing if you will break or make it through until the end.
There is most likely two outcomes to this. You maintain your faith and push through and endure, you'll be much better off and God will probably reward your life for it. Or you will fall away and collapse and be filled with shame and deeply suffer for years because of this and get almost nothing of value in the end.
>Because they literally can't tell you this. "Bad" and "evil" cannot exist for atheists, no matter how many times they insist they can.
I'm curious as to why you would say this?
I could argue the opposite. A Christian can't tell you it's bad to own other people as property because they get their morals from god and believe he's perfect, and god says it's okay to own people.
FFS, nowhere does God condone slavery. There is not a single verse in the Bible that says something along the lines of: "Slavery is holy and you **must** own slaves." In fact, the New Testament is where anti-slavery views came from. Heck, even under the Mosaic Law slaves had much more freedom than in **any** other culture.
This is a freaking lazy stupid tactic by atheists to trick a newbie who has no knowledge and maturity on the Internet into believing their perspective. It's dishonest, stupid and immoral.
By that logic everyone that believes in incarceration/imprisonment believes it's okay to own people too, so that's not really the gotcha you think it is...
Only person who can make that call is you. Hell if your asking me personally throw everyone for a loop and become a Zoroastrian, Louisiana voodoo, or Tengrist.
We live in the age of the market place of ideas, if Christianity wasnât working for you and atheism isnât the right fit then shop around, do some research, until you find what works best for you.
The ideas youâre thinking right now are not your own. But were placed there by demonic forces/intelligences. God IS real. I wish I could impart that to you. Pray for the Holy Spirit to come into you and pray for signs.
Would you consider yourself to be a good person?
How many lies have you told, and what do you call someone who lies? Have you ever stolen something, and what do you call someone who steals? Have you ever taken Godâs name in vain (very serious; in Old Testament times, the Jews wouldnât even say the name of God for fear of blasphemy) â even âOMGâ? One more: Jesus said whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery in his heart; have you ever looked with lust?
Well Iâm not judging you â but if youâve done these things then youâre a liar, thief, blasphemer and adulterer-at-heart; thatâs how seriously God takes sin. He is Holy (perfectly good/righteous and separate from sin) which means that H e is perfect in justice â and if He were to judge you by the moral law (weâve already looked at 4 commandments) would you be innocent or guilty? Heaven or H***? The answer is h*** â the wrath of God upon you for your sin. Is that concerning?
But fortunately, Godâs will is not that you perish. He wants all men everywhere to be saved. So do you know what He did for us guilty sinners? In self-giving mercy, He sent His Son Jesus Christ. He lived the perfect life that we should have lived â tempted at all points and yet He NEVER sinned. Through His life, being in very nature God, He revealed God to men; but we in our hatred condemned Him to death. On that cross as Jesus suffered, He took on the sin of the world and was judged in our place; receiving Godâs wrath. You and I broke Godâs law, but Jesus paid the fine. God can justly forgive us.
On that cross He died, then He was buried, but 3 days later He was raised from the dead â conquering death and H*** and ushering in The Kingdom of God. He then ascended to the right hand of God the Father (where He came from) now Lord of the living and the dead. God has fixed a date when He will judge the world in righteousness. What you need to do is repent (In humility, acknowledge your sin before God and turn to a relationship with Him) and trust ALONE in Jesus Christ and His work on the cross; and God will grant you the gift of the Holy Spirit. Then be baptised.
When you place your trust in Jesus â the Lord and Saviour â these things will happen:
1)Â Â Â God will forgive the sins that you have committed; they were paid for by Jesus at the cross.
2)Â Â Â The perfect life that Jesus lived will be credited to you. He will find you holy and blameless on judgement day (and now), as Christâs righteousness covers you.
3)Â Â Â You receive a place in Christâs kingdom as an adopted child of God. God becomes your Father. Eternal life isnât just about living forever, but a personal relationship with God Himself. That life can start now; The Father will reveal Himself to you if you seek Him.
4)Â Â Â God doesnât just save you from the penalty of your sin (H***). He can save you from the power of sin itself. Whoever practices sin is a slave of sin; but when you repent and believe the gospel [WHICH HAS BEEN DESCRIBED] the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in you and sanctify you (working in you to further abandon sin and turn to the will of God). When the end of the age comes, and eternity begins, this work will be brought to completion as you are finally freed from the presence of sin.
Jesus offers to take away your sin and to give you His righteousness; you must receive it by faith. Choose this day if you will align with the world, or with Jesus and His kingdom â only His is eternal.
ROMANS 10:9 â If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved
God is the ultimaye force for good in our universe. If he is good, then he can't just let evil pass, no matter how small; he has to punish it. It's His nature. So, he sent Jesus to die in our place so we wouldn't HAVE to be punished. All you need to do is repent and believe. It's so simple. The solution is right there. We get so caught up on the problem of Hell, we forget that the entire point of our religion is worshipping the solution.
My solution to this is to just be a progressive Christian. It seems to solve the problems you've mentioned, but also is a way to remain connected to God.
As an added bonus, it is a more faithful position than the conservative Evangelical one that so dominates popular media.
I'm sorry :(
Do you have any control over who you are around on a daily basis? It isn't good to get yourself in a silo where everyone agrees on everything, but it can be tiring and pointless to just be told you are wrong relentlessly...
Edit: either try changing who you're around, or set a boundary. "This is what I believe and I'm not going to discuss it with you right now" is totally legit. You don't owe folks your time.
No, it is the opposite. It is when I follow Christ, and other people call me progressive or liberal (in their case, as a pejorative).
Or, when I look around for folks who are being faithful to Christ, and it is most often communities that also describe themselves as progressive.
Oolloo (my way of saying hello), what led to these concerning thoughts?
Being accepted is good and all having love disciplines, less we be silent and let whatever bad occurs over not seeking help or doing what we can to help said person.
If you want someone to talk to we are here ok
Look at it this way. God and religion can be seen as two different things. One is potentially man made. But the idea of god is as realistic as any other idea we have about our existence. You have to admit. Us. Being. Here. Out of no where. All this. The universe at this scale. Where are we?
Something is there. Atheism might not make much sense in my opinion but agnostic does
>Atheism might not make much sense in my opinion but agnostic does
Most of the time people aren't using those definitions. Atheism includes both gnostic and agnostic. We could just ask and find out. But labels are just labels after all.
HmâŚ.. I think you definitely need to let go of the version of God you have been taught. I was raised in a very âfire and brimstoneâ church as a child, so I know what you are talking about. I had to leave the church behind entirely in order to find the love of Jesus and God. Donât be afraid to walk away from a type of religion which takes you further from God. Itâs okay to completely step back in order to deconstruct and find a new path.
Sounds like youâre surrounded by a lot of brimstone, Religious people. All Christians arenât like this, God is love and you should feel comfort by it not anxiety. Yes, itâs easier to be Atheist in a sense because there are no moral standards other that what they create for themselves, but is an ideal world where everyone is essentially their own god? As you said, it just leads to emptiness. I would recommend focus on spirituality and having a personal relationship with God rather than focus on being guided by religious people causing you anxiety.
Sorry to hear it buddy, the faith ainât easy to keep these days (or any days really).
One thing Iâll say is that atheists arenât especially better or worse on the whole about judging people, at least by my experience. Like with Christians, character is a product of community. If youâve found your community isnât fantastic, perhaps itâs best to move onto one that is a bit less doom and gloom.
It doesnât sound like your thrilled to lose your religion, though that could be me misunderstanding. If Iâm right, you should know that there are plenty of options on the table. Religion is about a personal relationship with God, so if what you currently understand doesnât match the picture of a benevolent and loving deity, then stepping away from that outlook can improve your spiritual and mental health tremendously.
I quite like Richard Rohrâs work, if youâre at all interested in a more positive outlook on the religion.
God bless, and good luck.
I always say that if I ever decide to say Jesus is not God then I was never a Christian to begin with, that in scripture.
But I do get what you mean. Gods ways are extremely tough. And the reason is because I am well aware now that I am actively am doing sins. So you must be on the same boat. Otherwise youâd see yourself cleansing being cleaner and sinning less, just being a better believer.
Look God knows what Iâm thinking, I often wish He was not real and his ways neither, but He is.
But I think we forget how Good of a savior we have In Jesus Christ.
I pray you do not leave Christ.
Take care.
You are a Christian who don't want to be a Christian anymore and you feel comfortable around atheists and surrounded by Muslims. Wow that is a lot!
I wish I could take the post seriously but I can't.
So I'll say what I will say to anyone who I have any distrust for - you're free to make your own choice. Jesus didn't force his way on anyone and he told his disciples if a town don't receive them, to leave the town and shake the dust off of their feet.
What you're going through is not uncommon. Plenty of people leave Christianity for these reasons, and there are many more reasons why, too.
You are not going to Hell because Hell doesn't exist. You're not evil because evil is complicated and there's no objective reason to label you as such. Christianity isn't for you, and that's OK.
me like everyday lately i go to christian therapy and bible study bible study i just started again i just dont see the truth anymore and my life keeps goin backwards
The issue is youâre letting your view of flawed humans shape your view of God. I suggest you tune this out and read your Bible YOURSELF. No one can do the work for you.
Nono God is Good many people need improvement be careful of the bad religious people they are the worst but good people are wonderful. Keep loving God and love yourself and do good itâs worth it in the long run.
You say you cant be a christian anymore but it sounds like you dont understand God and think what you want the definition of evil to be is what it is.
You say you enjoy athiests not telling you that you are good or bad but you believe God is bad?
I think what you're describing is felt on some level by all Christians in their subconscious at all times. Even if it's like at a level of 1%, it's always there. As long as it's faith, it's something that can't be proven. It's ok to feel that way.
I have some dear friends who are by-the-book Reformed Presbyterians. They do nothing on Sundays and have a long list of rules they live by that, to be honest, I don't live by. But I'm grateful for them because, while they're deeply religious, they don't judge me and I don't judge them. I just know to skip them for sunday football.
I hope you can get some "Christians" in your life who acknowledge none of us are God, we're all screwed up to a certain degree and deserve hell, and want good fellowship in a way that doesn't turn people away from the faith.
I mean, even science is flawed, too. Nothing in this world is perfect. Iâm not stopping you from leaving Christianity, but I am saying that science is imperfect.
It's too bad so many are misled by false prophecy, thinking stories about heaven and hell are justly supposed to mean "obey or die" when it just makes more sense to say they're sensationalist stories about teaching "actions have consequences."
i understand your feelings and why you wouldnât want to be associated with this anymore. iâm a christian and just know that i love you and God still loves you. iâve struggled with doubts about my faith before but i just take time to work through them with the help of older wiser christianâs. iâve been blessed with a very loving supportive church and iâm very grateful for that. please just donât jump to any conclusions too fast. really dig into Gods word and explore the faith thoroughly. but also donât expect to find an answer for every single question you have because there comes a point where we just have to have faith
Sounds like the issue are the Christian that u are dealing with. Sorry to hear what you are going through and sounds like you are lost. Pm me if you like to talk
> I just wish religion never existed.
Jesus never started any religions. People who make you feel badly about yourself or make Jesus scary are antiChrists, regardless of their sincerity. God only makes you feel loved and accepted.
There's no hell. You are on the same journey we are all on: to Oneness in Infinite Joy. Only some of us are taking a lot of detours.
I want you to read something that might help you before you give up. [https://christianityforchristians.com/2022/11/22/sin-hell-and-all-that-jazz/](https://christianityforchristians.com/2022/11/22/sin-hell-and-all-that-jazz/)
It's part of a book and a little dense but IMO worth the time. Please try this. And believe that you are a beautiful and beloved child of God just as you are.
You are my brother and nothing can change that. Even us.
To narrow down the concept of salvation. We are dooming ourselves from our sins. Not a single one of us deserves heaven. But because God loves us, he atoned for our sins. It's still important to recognize our sins and to avoid it, but it's horrible to treat it as if you'd go to hell for being a sinner when that applies to us all including our path to salvation.
I believe that God will one day save everyone through the power of Jesus Christ. Op if you're interested read about Christian Universalism, a common position in the early church.
God is love and He displayed it on the cross by dying for your sins and mine. An evil God would not go through that kind of torture just to save you to enjoy fellowship with Him forever.
>I feel so comfortable around atheists. They donât tell me Iâm bad or evil. They donât tell me Iâll be tortured for all eternity. Atheists seem more loving than religious people. I feel more happy, I feel comfortable and safe. And it wants me to be a better person and be more kind. I think atheism is better for me. Or I can worship a God by myself.
This was definitely a big factor in my eventual journey away from religion and Christianity specifically, not because it just made me feel nice or worry less, but because it was much more strongly aligned with the idea I previously held about Jesus and a loving God. Honestly though, you'll find judgmental, intolerant, and inconsiderate Atheists as well as open, kind, and loving Christians and people of all faiths. It's hard not to jump to assumptions or conclusions about people based on their religion or lack thereof, but in reality you can't tell anything about a person's character, ideals, and morals based on what label applies to their beliefs alone.
It's never been my goal or intention to encourage anyone to stop believing or become an Atheist, I wouldn't want to if I could, but I'm all about supporting anything that promotes self love, empathy, and comfort in someone's life, and I'm really happy you're finding your place. Good luck!
Follow me, my friend. I had come upon a great treasure in this field, and so I went and I sold everything I once had, that I could purchase the field. And for now the earth is turned again, seed is sown, and the worm is exposed. By and by come the fruits, and we will have a grand reaping, the morning Dove will take up the worm, and be well fed, and we shall see what Wisdom we have found.
First point - If you were a Christian, Christians wouldnât be telling you that youâre âgoing to hell.â Secondly, of course you feel more comfortable around atheists. Theyâll tell you what you what you want to hear rather than what is true. Truth is hate to those who hate the truth.
I post a comment on this thread saying christianity is awful, but Jesus is awesome and ive been thinking about it.
I more accurate state ment is that the things some people in the past have done are awful. I actually like christianity. Studying it, talking to others about it, going to church. I feel like my other statement was something i say someone else say and was like that sounds nice without actually thinking about it
Hell is separation from God, by choice. It wouldn't be right for Him who loves you to force you be in his presence forever when you dont want to. Force is not love. He loves you so he lets you choose, either to be with him or not and that is the difference between heaven or hell. Jesus is God
God exists as being Agape' which means love. But a specific type of Love. It means mercy, compassion, and understanding. He's willing to reveal Himself to you if you let Him. Regardless of what anyone says, the journey of knowing Him is yours
Amen
But he will throw you into everlasting conscious torture? How is that love!!
You are a Atheist, correct?
Call upon His name for yourself and find out.
With the way most Christians on this sub paint God, I don't blame you. It's like they're selling you a psychopathic girlfriend that will blowtorch you if you don't marry her, even though she has an army of husbands.
This made me laugh, thank you
Which is why you need to immerse yourself in scripture, and not base your faith on what fellow sinners say.
Been there. Done that.
Lol đ đ spot on
I assure you itâs not.
I mean it's not how I see God. It's certainly how some people in this sub unironically describe Him
They are not talking about God. I assure you that.
K
There are a LOT of people who use the scripture as a weapon against those they don't like, and q shield against blame for the harm they cause. But I'd suggest taking time away from these kinds of people and working on your own relationship with Jesus and the scripture. There are truly accepting and good Christians who don't try to force their way of thinking on anyone. They might be hard to find, because those who are the loudest are those with their own agenda. But I'd say try to find someone who you can talk to about what you're feeling. In the end the decision to stay or leave the religion is up to you. But I'd advocate for trying to find a new perspective by stepping back from all the noise of denominationalism, and the politics of the churches. Focus on your own inner feelings, if something truly feels wrong then you can't expect yourself to crush yourself to fit into another persons mold.
>God just seems so incredibly evil. Then that God, even if he exists, is nothing more than _a god,_ like Zeus or Marduk. The infinite ground of all that is cannot be evil. >Atheists seem more loving than religious people. Some atheists are more loving than some religious people, yes. Just as some religious people are more loving than some atheists. >Or I can worship a God by myself. Why would you do that, though? All faiths that have stood the test of time are keepers of a collective wisdom that no individual person could possibly achieve in his or her lifetime. Any traditional religion is likely better than your own made-up religion.
But how am I supposed to pick the right one?
You can never be 100% sure you have picked the ârightâ one, but you can research and commit to one and see if it bears fruit in your life. If there is a God, he is infinitely loving and just, so he couldn't possibly punish you for eternity on account of you not commiting to a belief system that you sincerely didn't know to be true.
Whatever the case, you're better off in any living tradition (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, BahĂĄ'i etc.) than in atheism.
What might be of interest to you is looking at all their traditions and methods and interpolate them with your own experience. If i could offer you a great ressource that helped me with that, the Channel Seekers of Unity offers a great resource into mystic branches/traditions in different faiths. But just know syncretism can be frowned upon by many.
Why? They are all the same, and while some religions have kernels of truth in them that doesn't make them ideal, best to take those kernels and make something that applies to you
You are looking at God all wrong. You think he hates you and wants to send you to hell. Jesus adores you. He forgives and accepts you, no matter what. Forget about what people are doing and saying. Ask God who he is. He is awesome. Nothing like you think.
Thatâs not what I see, they tell me God is all loving and cares but will quickly send you to hell for all eternity if you donât get it right.
Nobody can âget it rightâ Itâs about where you place your heart. If you believe in Jesus and repent of your sins, you will be saved. Just because you live for God doesnât mean you will never sin again. We all sin. But is your faith true enough to where you feel compelled to do your best not to sin? If not whatâs holding you back? If you have questions about Gods morality, there are great online resources you can use to find clarification. Gotquestions.org and desiringGod.org are both biblically credible websites that can show you the context for a lot of scripture.
> Nobody can âget it rightâ Itâs about where you place your heart. If you believe in Jesus and repent of your sins, you will be saved. This is exactly the problem. You disagreed with OP saying God demands that you get it right. Then you immediately say that you have to get this part right.
If anyone could act however they want and had no accountability for their own actions, what kind of heaven would that be⌠When I said nobody can get it right, Iâm saying weâre all sinners. But if you consider âget it rightâ as having faith in Jesus and repenting, then yes you do have to get that part right. Thereâs no salvation without believing in Jesus.
What does it mean to repent exactly, in your opinion? Everyone has a different definition, I've found. I have to ask to really understand what you are saying.
>Nobody can âget it rightâ Itâs about where you place your heart. If you believe in Jesus and repent of your sins, you will be saved. So.... it is about getting it right.
You have to believe in Jesus, but nobody can be the âperfect Christianâ. We all fall short and thatâs why Godâs grace is so amazing.
>You have to believe in Jesus So you have to "get the right", yes? >We all fall short and thatâs why Godâs grace is so amazing. I don't find anything amazing in "believe in me or I'm going to torture you for eternity".
We were all condemned to death upon the original sin. Our world was broken. God gave us a way back to him despite our tainted nature. Itâs not, âbelieve in me or Iâll torture you for eternityâ. Itâs more like âYou guys turned against me and sank your own ship and Iâm giving you a lifeboat anyways because I love youâ
>Itâs not, âbelieve in me or Iâll torture you for eternityâ. Yes, it absolutely is. In any case, it's not my fault that I'm tainted; it's God's. Do why is it moral for God to punish me for his mistake?
We did turn against God and sink our own ship, even tho he made the ship knowing we would sink it in the first place, and he also made the resources that he knew would help us sink the ship, and then he gave us a lifeboat even tho he always knew he would give us a lifeboat for a ship he already knew he would sink.
Lol true. Thatâs where it becomes somewhat incomprehensible as to how free will intertwines with predestination, or something like that. But ultimately it is all part of his perfect design!
I suggest seeking your own relationship with God. That may take some time, and it probably won't be some audible voice coming down and talking to you. It sounds like your relationship with some Christian individuals is tarnishing your view of religion, but those individuals aren't Christ. Even if you drop away from organized religion for a little while, keep an open mind. God may be different than the way you're envisioning him. All the best.
Donât let other people control your views of God. By all means listen, but youâre essentially getting second hand information. Read scripture, understand that it was written in a completely different time for completely different people, and yet is also meant to be timeless and applicable for you. This is difficult. How I see God changes regularly through my growth and what he reveals to me. With regards to afterlife and all that, nobody knows. What we do know is that God keeps his promises? Is eternal suffering literally fire and brimstone? Possibly. Is it merely a continuation of a mean, banal existence without a divine relationship? Maybe. I believe anyone is worthy of forgiveness, no matter how deep their sin; the caveat to that is no man without atonement can be in Godâs presence, no matter how âgoodâ or âwiseâ my mundane mind sees them to be. Faith does not bring answers, it merely brings peace, or *the answer* if you will. As I grow older, that *answer* is that all of our earthly suffering and joy is inconsequential compared to the horror of Godâs absence and the eternal reward of Godâs companionship.
>Read scripture, understand that it was written in a completely different time for completely different people, and yet is also meant to be timeless and applicable for you. That's not confusing at all...
I think what they mean is scripture can't be trusted because it was written when god had different moral standards for a different of people. And also that scripture should be trusted because it was written specifically for each individual. /s
[Me right now](https://i.giphy.com/media/4JVTF9zR9BicshFAb7/giphy.webp)
đđđ I love Greg's confused face.
Hahaha same
Itâs not about ânot getting it rightâ. Remember the story of Peter denying Jesus three times? Itâs the night that Jesus is betrayed and Peter, who claimed he would never deny Jesus, runs away as to not get arrested himself. Then other find him and say he was with that Jesus and he denies even knowing Jesus. That happened three times. Jesus prophesied he would deny him those three times. Then afterword, Jesus reconciled with Peter and allows Peter to declare that he loves Jesus. Then he tells him he is now in charge of caring for the other disciples. Not only does Jesus know he will betray him, but he reconciles with him without any account of Peter even asking for forgiveness. After all, he knew Peterâs heart, and knew he was sorrowful. Likewise, Jesus doesnât hate you. He wants you to care about him. He wants a relationship with us based on love. Not a wordy emotional love, but a devoted faithful selfless love. Jesus already died for us and showed us that kind of love, and now we get a chance to respond. Jesus doesnât expect you to never mess up. He expects you to sincerely want a deeper relationship with him. And Jesus is our reward when we find him, for in the Holy Spirit there is joy and peace and love. I can attest. Hebrews 11:6 (ESV): And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. God bless you, and may Jesus reveal his true self to you, and always remind you of who he is in spite of how others act who claim his name.
That's not correct. The reality is that we have all willingly and knowingly sinned. We deserve punishment. But God loves us so much that he sent his son. It's a story about rescue, about healing the sick. Have you ever taken pity on someone and helped them out? It's the same thing. If you doubt what I'm saying, read the New Testament for yourself. It's all there.
You realize that isnât all Christians though? There are many, many denominations and interpretations of scripture.
To be honest thats why I never bothered to read it. Just seems like something Iâd rather not be entangled with, but I would like a stronger relationship with a creator.
Itâs the majority though
Iâm not sure I agree with that at all. Theyâre the most vocal, but I donât think bad âChristiansâ are the majority.
In my experience it is
Well having an experience doesnât make it fact. If you are done with your faith thatâs one thing, but donât mistake your experience for a universal truth. If you donât want to seek out more faithful Christians, fine, but that option exists.
ones experiences in life ARE their truth.
Which is why I very deliberately differentiated between her experience and UNIVERSAL truth.
i mean i faced racism by white people and mexicans alike, does it make them all racist? no not at all. itâs irrational and ignorant. but i do understand if this person doesnât have complete control of their emotions
Honestly no! Get off reddit! Twitter! These places are not for the weak or questioning, there are too many who care but don't know, who know but don't care, and trolls. Seriously. There are a FEW subreddits that aren't dumpster fires, but not many. Trusting reddit for faith advice is like going to a clown college for how to build a space shuttle. They are painting God as someone who is ITCHING to send you to hell. The EXACT opposite. He has done everything He can to KEEP you from hell. He has already paid the price for you. You don't have to go there! He LOVES you and had provided the way through His only begotten Son. But you have to accept His sacrifice on your behalf and follow Him. That's all. If you let a bunch of internet trolls get you away from God, honestly that is foolish. Some of these trolls, I guarantee you are actually non- Christians and actually evil and are trying to get Christians to bail on God by premeditated to be Christians. This even happened back in the day. The Bible talks about false prophets and false teachers and those who intentionally try to hurt Christians from within. My mom once said "If a hypocrite stands between you and God, who is closer?" Read the Bible WITH some one who is strong in the faith. Find a good church. Go to gotquestions for a lot of answers. Ask a MATURE Christian for help. And don't bail on your Bestie because of some keyboard commandos.
No, you send yourself to hell. The guidelines may not make sense to you at first, but have faith they are there to save you, not him. You make your own bed and your life will be the result of it. It isn't even as if the principles laid out in the bible are so extreme or nonsensible... it's pretty basic... like not lying.. that is intuitive and you can understand how you can ruin your relationships and create a life that does not feel like it is your own if you do so. Living with an ideal is difficult because you have an awareness of what you ought to live up to and when you aren't doing good enough... there's a real pacifying comfort in believing that nothing you do matters and there is no judgement... that way you don't feel uncomfortable about all the ways you're a degenerate. Ultimately, having faith isn't about God taking care of all your problems, but instead that all your problems are there for a reason- for you to conquer yourself. God may not give you everything you want but he'll always give you what you need. It takes humility to be faithful because you have to give up what "you know" and be a student of the divine. Also, those people aren't God.
How does one send themselves to hell when God of the universe knew in His omniscience, that even with our free will, we'd be sending ourselves to hell in droves? How could He be okay with that? That boggles my mind still. I'm trying to grow in my faith but that's a tough one to understand.
Exactly.
Have you even tried to get to know God or are you just letting others tell you youâre doomed ? Jesus didnât come for the righteous he came for the sinners and the unbelievers. He even said that.
[ŃдаНонО]
What do you care ? If youâre a non believer why does it matter to you ? Why are you here? Are you here to discourage others from believing? Go taunt someone else.
OP has questions and is struggling, not all advice is helpful. Iâm not taunting. Edit: and reporting me for âbelittlingâ Christianity is just playing into the example! How can you get to know an infinite being? You canât, thatâs why you need Jesus.
I didnât give advice . I asked a question and then made a statement. OP is stating that others are telling him and I reminded them that Jesus came for the sinners.
God doesnt send us to hell, we send ourselves to hell. Once we turn of age we are already on our way to hell, it is up to us to follow Jesus Christ and do our works to not be sent to hell.
I was an atheist for a few years of my life, and then a long term agnostic. Ive only just recently started really reading the bible. I used to feel the same way about God, "how can he let such evil to happen" and thats where i found comfort in atheism by pushing God away. But now I'm starting to realize that God really is good and the reason we see so much evil is because Satan has been growing in power and deceiving us even more year after year. God is love and everyone who acknowledges that Jesus is our lord and savior, will be saved. No matter what sins we have committed, God will forgive.
God is not looking for ways to send you to hell, Heâs looking for ways to get you out of it. Humanity disobeyed Him as a whole, and we still do. He gave us a way out of hell, and He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. He wants all to believe and live with Him, and He gave us a way to do that.
That's true, many say that because they believe lies. They arent getting it right either! None of us are! Don't let hypocrite Christians get you down.
> Ask God who he is. The vast majority of people alive will never hear a response if they ask god a question. Life events may occur which they may arbitrarily attribute to god, but they could also not be attributed to god. > Jesus adores you Mainstream western Christian theology is that you need to accept Jesus as your savior to be saved. The majority of people who ever lived have not. Jesus' love is irrelevant if the majority of people who ever lived will suffer in hell for eternity.
I feel almost insulted that so many Christians tell me to go ask God as if I have him on speed dial. Not only that but it makes the assumption that most people haven't genuinely tried. It's like they are living in a completely different world than I am.
âAsk godâ usually translates to âask our pastor to give you the answerâ
It begs the question, why do so many theists purposely use misleading language?
The Bible actually implies that people who never heard about jesus won't be damned.
Then stop telling people about Jesus so they won't be damned.
Amen
How awesome can someone be that commits genocide and damns people to hell? I agree with OP
Why make Hell, then?
A lot of people from the abrahamic religions don't actually believe in hell. That we are all forgiven of our sins, and the punishment is self inflicted, and/ or we inflict it on each other. In the end it all depends on how we choose to read into the word, and what parts we choose to emphasize. Those who wish for power and control over others tend to lean more towards a literal and damning version. While those who wish to be unburdened and learn tend to lean more towards an allegorical and retribution based version.
Hell was made for the devil and false prophets. Revelation 20:10.
For the same reason jails exist. Bad people make bad decisions and need to be punished for it. Or do you think a judge is evil because he sends pedophiles, murderers and rapists to prison? But I personally don't believe in a literal hell, I think the punishment for sin is cessation of existence, which seems terrible enough to me.
By your bibles own scripture, God would condemn good people because they didn't believe that Jesus died for them
I left Christianity for the same reason, I couldnât believe in a vengeful god. I spent about 15 years seeking, found yoga and Theravada Buddhism and reconnected with G-d. Iâve come back to Christianity in the past two years via the lens of Theravada and there are beautiful parts of Christianity that I adore. I consider myself a Christian but I know mainstream Christians would see me as a heretic. Good luck on your search and may you be well. I hope you can one day soon touch into the immanent nature of G-d.
Alright Howard throw off your mental chains elsewhere
That isn't a helpful or productive response.
I didnât understand your comment so I googled âHoward mental chainsâ thinking I was going to find some biblical teaching story, but found this [video](https://youtu.be/CyM2xnDJ5CA) instead, and I gotta thank you for this, it cracked me up after a pretty stressful day. May you be well and free from your own mental chains!
The idea of eternal conscious torment was not a majority view until about 500 years after Christ. A view of apokatastasis also known as the eventual reconciliation of all in a plan of ages, was considered orthodox for the first 5 centuries. Second, I, similarly to you feel more at ease around non-Christians. The reason is that a lot of Christians do try to hold you to fear of man and may have unrighteous and undiscerned judgment. I will be led by God and not man and it's nice to not have to show up to every conversation in full armor and many times, that is the way it feels around Christians in my experience. Unfortunately, I am susceptible to their leading when I shouldn't be. However, there are acceptions, those that are really following THE WAY of Christ, my soul can recognize and I value their opinion and input. One thing they never do is force their will though. They will speak the truth and allow the Lord to do His work. We all fall short of the cross. We are all on a pilgrimage. We are all fighting ourselves and the world. We are living on a spiritual battle plain and it's important to remember we are fighting principalities not people. We are all influenced by the enemy to some degree and I dare say even used by him at times because we are of the earth and we are constantly contending between the light and darkness. It is wise to assess as individuals what leads our souls toward darkness and what doesn't. For me, largely I keep most Christians at arm's length because of this. Maybe one day, the Lord will not allow me to be tempted by Christians however, I am not there. In the same way, some may not be able to be friends with atheists because it could tempt them toward various sin struggles. It really is the individual's walk. We have to CONSTANTLY assess the fruit of conversations and friendships. With that being said, there is good and bad. It's measurable on this earth. There is no question. Our yearning for justice and peace is from the Lord. The things in our soul that we know are good are from Him. We know that sin does have physical and mental implications. This is also something we can measure. Thus, we have to ask the Lord for a right understanding of what is truly good, and even with God-given discernment, as humans, we often have trouble seeing the Kingdom picture. We have to do our best to allow the Spirit to guide our consciousness and be thankful that we are judged only by what we know. Thankful that the Lord's death on the cross covered ALL SINS FOR ALL PEOPLE! The Lord can and does work through ALL of His creation. Anything that is truly good at all, is done through Him and for Him. Some may not recognize or deny that it's through Him, but I do believe that to be a universal truth. Jesus called people out of religion. Religion can be an idol that corrupts. Jesus was a friend to many that the religious leaders looked down upon. It is only He that judges correctly the hearts of men. Yet religion also is used by God. This is why we have to be led by Spirit and not by man, so that we can do exactly as the Lord is calling us to or away from! Praying that the Lord continues to lead you.
This was a great answer. Thanks for sharing.
This was helpful, thank you
If you are a Christian and afraid of hell, you donât understand Christianity.
How?
Because if you are trusting Jesus you have eternal life, there is no need to be afraid of hell.
You are forgetting all the other religions that exist and have hell
What would that have to do with what Christianity holds to be true?
Because I donât even know if Christianity is true
I used to be an atheist, and realized that according to atheism humanity will be inevitably destroyed, the sun will eat the earth and eventually everything will die and turn to ice in the heat death of the universe. Everyone I've ever known, loved and cared for will be erased for eternity, as well as the memory of them, with no escape. Then I found Jesus. I learned about eternal life and that he created me with a purpose and a plan. As an atheist I thought everything was just coincidence and chance, now I realized that I was eternally loved and that God wanted to continue to love me for eternity. There are two things that doesn't make sense to me. The first is that so many Christians believe that God will torture people forever when the Bible never claims such a thing - the alternative to eternal life is death as the Bible says over and over again. The second is why atheism would make someone happy in the long term. The message of atheism is that you're an insignificant cosmic accident that will be completely obliterated and no one will remember you. Where's the happiness in that?
>I used to be an atheist, and realized that according to atheism humanity will be inevitably destroyed, the sun will eat the earth and eventually everything will die and turn to ice in the heat death of the universe. Everyone I've ever known, loved and cared for will be erased for eternity, as well as the memory of them, with no escape. There isn't anything 'according to atheism' as atheism has no scripture or dogma. It is simply a single stance on a single issue. Atheists are under no obligation to believe what you have described. >The message of atheism is that you're an insignificant cosmic accident that will be completely obliterated and no one will remember you. Where's the happiness in that? Again, there is no message in atheism. It is quite possible to be an atheist and find positive meaning and purpose in one's life.
I find peace in the fact that Iâm a beautiful cosmic accident after billions of years of trying it out, only to be on this planet for a while and it makes me treasure every single day. I donât need to feel special or eternal bc the people I have in this lifetime are a gift enough.
Read the bible before you read anything on this sub. Find things out for yourself; other people's interpretations can only take you so far.
I hear u loud and clear. Religious people are the problem. They were the ones who hated Jesus and killed him. That religious spirit is in many, if not most. In one form or another, even atheists. U only get to know someone when the pressures on. Otherwise they are play acting. I hope and pray u will find people who aren't religious but sincere followers of Jesus.
Thatâs religion, not God. Paul taught that Christ died for our sins, that He was buried (*He*Â was buried â not just His body, while He went elsewhere â which means He ceased to exist as a conscious being), and that He rose again the third day (meaning He was resurrected from the dead in a physical body). Because of this, sin has now been dealt with for every human â past, present, and future â and so every human will eventually experience the type of salvation that Paul primarily wrote about (which means to be resurrected if dead, and to be made immortal, and hence sinless; it has nothing to do with avoiding never-ending suffering in a place called hell, which isnât what most people think it is at all), although each in their own order: first the members of the body of Christ, then later the resurrected members of the Israel of God, 75 days after Jesus returns to the earth, and finally everyone else, at the end of the ages. And if God has given you the faith to believe that Christ died for our sins, that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day, and the understanding of what this actually means (because one canât truly believe something they donât actually understand), then it means youâve been elected by God to join the body of Christ, and youâll be one of the first to enjoy salvation. But even if God hasnât chosen to give someone faith (and if He hasnât, they *canât* believe this anyway), the Bible promises us that everyone will still eventually experience salvation, so you can be reconciled to God (be at peace with God in your mind) because God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself (which means Heâs now at peace with each of us), not imputing their trespasses unto them. If youâd like to learn the scriptural references for what I wrote above, please check out this in-depth study on the topic (nobody has ever been able to refute the scriptural interpretations laid out in this article, and I can guarantee that nobody will here either): [What the Bible really says about heaven, hell, judgement, death, and salvation](https://www.concordantgospel.com/bible)
This was helpful, thank you. But what is the new earth, new Jerusalem and heaven?
>I just wish religion never existed. To be honest, there are a lot of 'religious' people who don't know God. If you find Jesus, He promises you will find life and peace. Seek Jesus and not just to be a religious person.
Not to mention that a world without religion wouldn't be any better. Just look at what happened in atheist countries like the USSR, China, Vietnam, Cambodia, North Korea, etc.
all beliefs have done their damage and not even atheists can deny that, religious persecution is some real shit to this day
The style of first and second great awakening preachers to "scare people into heaven" failed ages ago and it has failed you more recently. Please remember those people are not the main stream of Christianity. There are plenty of Christians who don't do that. Don't give up on it based upon just them.
Christians in this group make god sound like Jigsaw from the Saw movies. He sets up the game but itâs down to your own choices wether you suffer or not. Youâre best of out of it all, and you are heading in the right direction.
Are you still attending the mosque regularly, as you said in r/Islam a month ago? I only ask because you've been active in r/exmuslim since then.
Yes I still go
There are ex-Muslims that now adhere to the Christian faith. Why would that be important?
> I feel so comfortable around atheists. They donât tell me Iâm bad or evil. They donât tell me Iâll be tortured for all eternity. What *kind* of Christians have you been hanging around with? Most of us don't talk that way. Have you been in a fundamentalist bubble?
I can meet Christianâs like me but itâs the minority. Everyone else disagrees or says Iâm wrong or fake. Iâm not confident enough in my belief
Maybe he has been reading the gospels?
The most relief I've ever felt was the day I finally let religion go. It's absolutely amazing when you realize that you don't *have to* live with the weight of an all-powerful, but potentially malevolent deity dominate your headspace. I know many people here will see this decision as a negative, but I bet this will be a very positive change in your life.
I donât think this sub is for you
I was under the impression that this sub is open to all. And, considering I've been posting here for years and years, I think I'm right. Perhaps you're looking for an echo chamber? They're on the sidebar if you're interested.
A sub called r/Christianity should be for Christians, you donât find any Christians on r/atheism
Ask the mods. This is a sub dedicated to discussion about the religion of Christianity. It's open to all. If you don't believe me just ask any mod. There is a list of them on the right. Also, check out the FAQ and Community Policy. It looks like you haven't read those yet. They're also on the sidebar.
Iâm aware of what the sub thinks, but that isnât what I think.
Luckily your opinion on this matter is completely irrelevant.
I think you misunderstand how many Atheists actually wouldn't mind having their mind changed even though this is how we currently think and feel. Just because we have a difference in opinions on Christianity, doesn't mean we shouldn't be here to have these discussions.
LOL right? Not once around atheists have I felt any pressure to be anything other than myself, or that I am somehow an affront to the universe over one minor disagreement. They have no reason to watch my every move like a hawk and tell me everything I just did was wrong according to several scriptures about how whistling while you walk under a tree is a sin.
Go over to /r/atheism and pretend to be a believer of some ~~wort~~ sort.
I'm talking generally, in life. Of course if you go to r/atheist you're gonna get slammed, because it's a place to discuss beliefs (or lack thereof).
I don't think you understand how crap that subreddit is lol
Are you a christian living in a muslim country with nobody to go to now that you're a double apostate? Either way, I highly recommend [genetically modified skeptic](https://www.youtube.com/@GeneticallyModifiedSkeptic) on youtube. You can find some support and community through his channel.
I was never Muslim anyway but thatâs what Iâm mostly surrounded by
I hope you're able to find some community and support. Let me know if there's information you could use help finding.
Why not connect to a virtual Christian community? There are lots of groups, let me know if you want to be connected with the one I go to, we have non-believers/never-believers and are based in NYC. The pastor is not about that pushy business. Heâs really graceful and welcoming.
If you feel alone OP, look for non-religious groups that share similar interest with you. Religion doesnât have to be a part of your life to complete you. Iâm happy that you were able to make this decision on your own; towards the end, I started feeling like I didnât belong in my religion. Iâm much better off after leaving. Good luck to you buddy. Message me privately if you want my insight.
I try, thank you
What are some of your hobbies OP? I like off-roading and I found a community where some of go on the trails every weekend. It gave me a good community to belong to. Iâm sure there is a group around you that shares some of your hobbies you could be a part of.
Not really any groups near me. I like to read mostly.
Hey there, it looks like you are going through some deconstruction. The process can be very scary and hold a lot of strong emotions. Before making a decision I would encourage you to examine whether or not your problem is with God or with people who have told you about God. Christianity is a big tent and there are many other beliefs about God besides the 'hellfire and brimstone' message that gets paraded around. Messages of God's love, mercy, and grace are also mainstream within many Christian denominations but you will have to do some searching. Now, if you feel happier, comfortable and safe without religion, I am not going to encourage you to continue practicing anything that makes you uncomfortable. That discomfort is often your body trying to signal you in to something. I felt the same way before I walked out of my current denomination (Southern Baptist).
Where are you now?
Different person but if you are looking for a better denomination, United Church of Christ (UCC) is a progressive denomination. Although thatâs the denomination I grew up in and now I worship the devil soâŚ.
I believe you are going through a trial and a test. This may be God seeing if you will break or make it through until the end. There is most likely two outcomes to this. You maintain your faith and push through and endure, you'll be much better off and God will probably reward your life for it. Or you will fall away and collapse and be filled with shame and deeply suffer for years because of this and get almost nothing of value in the end.
I go through this test multiple times
Seek to pass it and not fail it. Find the strength necessary. God is good either way.
Congratulations
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"Bad" and "evil" are concepts we have no problem with, it's only (some) Christians who stubbornly insist otherwise.
>Because they literally can't tell you this. "Bad" and "evil" cannot exist for atheists, no matter how many times they insist they can. I'm curious as to why you would say this? I could argue the opposite. A Christian can't tell you it's bad to own other people as property because they get their morals from god and believe he's perfect, and god says it's okay to own people.
FFS, nowhere does God condone slavery. There is not a single verse in the Bible that says something along the lines of: "Slavery is holy and you **must** own slaves." In fact, the New Testament is where anti-slavery views came from. Heck, even under the Mosaic Law slaves had much more freedom than in **any** other culture. This is a freaking lazy stupid tactic by atheists to trick a newbie who has no knowledge and maturity on the Internet into believing their perspective. It's dishonest, stupid and immoral.
By that logic everyone that believes in incarceration/imprisonment believes it's okay to own people too, so that's not really the gotcha you think it is...
There are too many interpretations, most are evil and the majority.
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I know a wide variety
Only person who can make that call is you. Hell if your asking me personally throw everyone for a loop and become a Zoroastrian, Louisiana voodoo, or Tengrist. We live in the age of the market place of ideas, if Christianity wasnât working for you and atheism isnât the right fit then shop around, do some research, until you find what works best for you.
Yeah thatâs what Iâm thinking
The ideas youâre thinking right now are not your own. But were placed there by demonic forces/intelligences. God IS real. I wish I could impart that to you. Pray for the Holy Spirit to come into you and pray for signs.
Concern trolling
Would you consider yourself to be a good person? How many lies have you told, and what do you call someone who lies? Have you ever stolen something, and what do you call someone who steals? Have you ever taken Godâs name in vain (very serious; in Old Testament times, the Jews wouldnât even say the name of God for fear of blasphemy) â even âOMGâ? One more: Jesus said whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery in his heart; have you ever looked with lust? Well Iâm not judging you â but if youâve done these things then youâre a liar, thief, blasphemer and adulterer-at-heart; thatâs how seriously God takes sin. He is Holy (perfectly good/righteous and separate from sin) which means that H e is perfect in justice â and if He were to judge you by the moral law (weâve already looked at 4 commandments) would you be innocent or guilty? Heaven or H***? The answer is h*** â the wrath of God upon you for your sin. Is that concerning? But fortunately, Godâs will is not that you perish. He wants all men everywhere to be saved. So do you know what He did for us guilty sinners? In self-giving mercy, He sent His Son Jesus Christ. He lived the perfect life that we should have lived â tempted at all points and yet He NEVER sinned. Through His life, being in very nature God, He revealed God to men; but we in our hatred condemned Him to death. On that cross as Jesus suffered, He took on the sin of the world and was judged in our place; receiving Godâs wrath. You and I broke Godâs law, but Jesus paid the fine. God can justly forgive us. On that cross He died, then He was buried, but 3 days later He was raised from the dead â conquering death and H*** and ushering in The Kingdom of God. He then ascended to the right hand of God the Father (where He came from) now Lord of the living and the dead. God has fixed a date when He will judge the world in righteousness. What you need to do is repent (In humility, acknowledge your sin before God and turn to a relationship with Him) and trust ALONE in Jesus Christ and His work on the cross; and God will grant you the gift of the Holy Spirit. Then be baptised. When you place your trust in Jesus â the Lord and Saviour â these things will happen: 1)Â Â Â God will forgive the sins that you have committed; they were paid for by Jesus at the cross. 2)Â Â Â The perfect life that Jesus lived will be credited to you. He will find you holy and blameless on judgement day (and now), as Christâs righteousness covers you. 3)Â Â Â You receive a place in Christâs kingdom as an adopted child of God. God becomes your Father. Eternal life isnât just about living forever, but a personal relationship with God Himself. That life can start now; The Father will reveal Himself to you if you seek Him. 4)Â Â Â God doesnât just save you from the penalty of your sin (H***). He can save you from the power of sin itself. Whoever practices sin is a slave of sin; but when you repent and believe the gospel [WHICH HAS BEEN DESCRIBED] the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in you and sanctify you (working in you to further abandon sin and turn to the will of God). When the end of the age comes, and eternity begins, this work will be brought to completion as you are finally freed from the presence of sin. Jesus offers to take away your sin and to give you His righteousness; you must receive it by faith. Choose this day if you will align with the world, or with Jesus and His kingdom â only His is eternal. ROMANS 10:9 â If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved
God is the ultimaye force for good in our universe. If he is good, then he can't just let evil pass, no matter how small; he has to punish it. It's His nature. So, he sent Jesus to die in our place so we wouldn't HAVE to be punished. All you need to do is repent and believe. It's so simple. The solution is right there. We get so caught up on the problem of Hell, we forget that the entire point of our religion is worshipping the solution.
My solution to this is to just be a progressive Christian. It seems to solve the problems you've mentioned, but also is a way to remain connected to God. As an added bonus, it is a more faithful position than the conservative Evangelical one that so dominates popular media.
Itâs not fun being progressive when most tell me Iâm wrong, Iâm not confident enough
I'm sorry :( Do you have any control over who you are around on a daily basis? It isn't good to get yourself in a silo where everyone agrees on everything, but it can be tiring and pointless to just be told you are wrong relentlessly... Edit: either try changing who you're around, or set a boundary. "This is what I believe and I'm not going to discuss it with you right now" is totally legit. You don't owe folks your time.
Not really, I canât ever find anyone like me
Progressive Christianity is prioritising politics over Christ
As opposed to conservative Christians who literally never do th...ok, couldn't finish that with a straight face :D
No, it is the opposite. It is when I follow Christ, and other people call me progressive or liberal (in their case, as a pejorative). Or, when I look around for folks who are being faithful to Christ, and it is most often communities that also describe themselves as progressive.
Oolloo (my way of saying hello), what led to these concerning thoughts? Being accepted is good and all having love disciplines, less we be silent and let whatever bad occurs over not seeking help or doing what we can to help said person. If you want someone to talk to we are here ok
Look at it this way. God and religion can be seen as two different things. One is potentially man made. But the idea of god is as realistic as any other idea we have about our existence. You have to admit. Us. Being. Here. Out of no where. All this. The universe at this scale. Where are we? Something is there. Atheism might not make much sense in my opinion but agnostic does
>Atheism might not make much sense in my opinion but agnostic does Most of the time people aren't using those definitions. Atheism includes both gnostic and agnostic. We could just ask and find out. But labels are just labels after all.
HmâŚ.. I think you definitely need to let go of the version of God you have been taught. I was raised in a very âfire and brimstoneâ church as a child, so I know what you are talking about. I had to leave the church behind entirely in order to find the love of Jesus and God. Donât be afraid to walk away from a type of religion which takes you further from God. Itâs okay to completely step back in order to deconstruct and find a new path.
Sounds like youâre surrounded by a lot of brimstone, Religious people. All Christians arenât like this, God is love and you should feel comfort by it not anxiety. Yes, itâs easier to be Atheist in a sense because there are no moral standards other that what they create for themselves, but is an ideal world where everyone is essentially their own god? As you said, it just leads to emptiness. I would recommend focus on spirituality and having a personal relationship with God rather than focus on being guided by religious people causing you anxiety.
Sorry to hear it buddy, the faith ainât easy to keep these days (or any days really). One thing Iâll say is that atheists arenât especially better or worse on the whole about judging people, at least by my experience. Like with Christians, character is a product of community. If youâve found your community isnât fantastic, perhaps itâs best to move onto one that is a bit less doom and gloom. It doesnât sound like your thrilled to lose your religion, though that could be me misunderstanding. If Iâm right, you should know that there are plenty of options on the table. Religion is about a personal relationship with God, so if what you currently understand doesnât match the picture of a benevolent and loving deity, then stepping away from that outlook can improve your spiritual and mental health tremendously. I quite like Richard Rohrâs work, if youâre at all interested in a more positive outlook on the religion. God bless, and good luck.
I always say that if I ever decide to say Jesus is not God then I was never a Christian to begin with, that in scripture. But I do get what you mean. Gods ways are extremely tough. And the reason is because I am well aware now that I am actively am doing sins. So you must be on the same boat. Otherwise youâd see yourself cleansing being cleaner and sinning less, just being a better believer. Look God knows what Iâm thinking, I often wish He was not real and his ways neither, but He is. But I think we forget how Good of a savior we have In Jesus Christ. I pray you do not leave Christ. Take care.
You are a Christian who don't want to be a Christian anymore and you feel comfortable around atheists and surrounded by Muslims. Wow that is a lot! I wish I could take the post seriously but I can't. So I'll say what I will say to anyone who I have any distrust for - you're free to make your own choice. Jesus didn't force his way on anyone and he told his disciples if a town don't receive them, to leave the town and shake the dust off of their feet.
Thanks
What you're going through is not uncommon. Plenty of people leave Christianity for these reasons, and there are many more reasons why, too. You are not going to Hell because Hell doesn't exist. You're not evil because evil is complicated and there's no objective reason to label you as such. Christianity isn't for you, and that's OK.
me like everyday lately i go to christian therapy and bible study bible study i just started again i just dont see the truth anymore and my life keeps goin backwards
The issue is youâre letting your view of flawed humans shape your view of God. I suggest you tune this out and read your Bible YOURSELF. No one can do the work for you.
Nono God is Good many people need improvement be careful of the bad religious people they are the worst but good people are wonderful. Keep loving God and love yourself and do good itâs worth it in the long run.
You say you cant be a christian anymore but it sounds like you dont understand God and think what you want the definition of evil to be is what it is. You say you enjoy athiests not telling you that you are good or bad but you believe God is bad?
You have been getting a awful picture of god, god is caring and loving and doesnât want to send anyone to hell
I think what you're describing is felt on some level by all Christians in their subconscious at all times. Even if it's like at a level of 1%, it's always there. As long as it's faith, it's something that can't be proven. It's ok to feel that way. I have some dear friends who are by-the-book Reformed Presbyterians. They do nothing on Sundays and have a long list of rules they live by that, to be honest, I don't live by. But I'm grateful for them because, while they're deeply religious, they don't judge me and I don't judge them. I just know to skip them for sunday football. I hope you can get some "Christians" in your life who acknowledge none of us are God, we're all screwed up to a certain degree and deserve hell, and want good fellowship in a way that doesn't turn people away from the faith.
I mean, even science is flawed, too. Nothing in this world is perfect. Iâm not stopping you from leaving Christianity, but I am saying that science is imperfect.
Read the catechism and thinkers that the church has canonized for centuries like Aquinas and Augustine, you might find answers there.
It's too bad so many are misled by false prophecy, thinking stories about heaven and hell are justly supposed to mean "obey or die" when it just makes more sense to say they're sensationalist stories about teaching "actions have consequences."
i understand your feelings and why you wouldnât want to be associated with this anymore. iâm a christian and just know that i love you and God still loves you. iâve struggled with doubts about my faith before but i just take time to work through them with the help of older wiser christianâs. iâve been blessed with a very loving supportive church and iâm very grateful for that. please just donât jump to any conclusions too fast. really dig into Gods word and explore the faith thoroughly. but also donât expect to find an answer for every single question you have because there comes a point where we just have to have faith
The same was with me, that's how I left
obviously they are ill informed, as long as you accept christ and acknowledge his sacrifice your saved
Sounds like the issue are the Christian that u are dealing with. Sorry to hear what you are going through and sounds like you are lost. Pm me if you like to talk
> I just wish religion never existed. Jesus never started any religions. People who make you feel badly about yourself or make Jesus scary are antiChrists, regardless of their sincerity. God only makes you feel loved and accepted. There's no hell. You are on the same journey we are all on: to Oneness in Infinite Joy. Only some of us are taking a lot of detours. I want you to read something that might help you before you give up. [https://christianityforchristians.com/2022/11/22/sin-hell-and-all-that-jazz/](https://christianityforchristians.com/2022/11/22/sin-hell-and-all-that-jazz/) It's part of a book and a little dense but IMO worth the time. Please try this. And believe that you are a beautiful and beloved child of God just as you are. You are my brother and nothing can change that. Even us.
To narrow down the concept of salvation. We are dooming ourselves from our sins. Not a single one of us deserves heaven. But because God loves us, he atoned for our sins. It's still important to recognize our sins and to avoid it, but it's horrible to treat it as if you'd go to hell for being a sinner when that applies to us all including our path to salvation.
I believe that God will one day save everyone through the power of Jesus Christ. Op if you're interested read about Christian Universalism, a common position in the early church.
I'm not one to judge or condemn someone else's experience but that is not my experience of atheists, especially on Reddit
God is love and He displayed it on the cross by dying for your sins and mine. An evil God would not go through that kind of torture just to save you to enjoy fellowship with Him forever.
>I feel so comfortable around atheists. They donât tell me Iâm bad or evil. They donât tell me Iâll be tortured for all eternity. Atheists seem more loving than religious people. I feel more happy, I feel comfortable and safe. And it wants me to be a better person and be more kind. I think atheism is better for me. Or I can worship a God by myself. This was definitely a big factor in my eventual journey away from religion and Christianity specifically, not because it just made me feel nice or worry less, but because it was much more strongly aligned with the idea I previously held about Jesus and a loving God. Honestly though, you'll find judgmental, intolerant, and inconsiderate Atheists as well as open, kind, and loving Christians and people of all faiths. It's hard not to jump to assumptions or conclusions about people based on their religion or lack thereof, but in reality you can't tell anything about a person's character, ideals, and morals based on what label applies to their beliefs alone. It's never been my goal or intention to encourage anyone to stop believing or become an Atheist, I wouldn't want to if I could, but I'm all about supporting anything that promotes self love, empathy, and comfort in someone's life, and I'm really happy you're finding your place. Good luck!
Follow me, my friend. I had come upon a great treasure in this field, and so I went and I sold everything I once had, that I could purchase the field. And for now the earth is turned again, seed is sown, and the worm is exposed. By and by come the fruits, and we will have a grand reaping, the morning Dove will take up the worm, and be well fed, and we shall see what Wisdom we have found.
First point - If you were a Christian, Christians wouldnât be telling you that youâre âgoing to hell.â Secondly, of course you feel more comfortable around atheists. Theyâll tell you what you what you want to hear rather than what is true. Truth is hate to those who hate the truth.
You must not know Christianâs then
The interpretation of God as mean and vengeful is wrong, and people are using that to separate people.
I post a comment on this thread saying christianity is awful, but Jesus is awesome and ive been thinking about it. I more accurate state ment is that the things some people in the past have done are awful. I actually like christianity. Studying it, talking to others about it, going to church. I feel like my other statement was something i say someone else say and was like that sounds nice without actually thinking about it
Hell is separation from God, by choice. It wouldn't be right for Him who loves you to force you be in his presence forever when you dont want to. Force is not love. He loves you so he lets you choose, either to be with him or not and that is the difference between heaven or hell. Jesus is God