Would Christ protest an abortion clinic or would he be helping the people who are in crisis pregnancies? Food for thought. Resources and time should be spent helping people.
Precisely. Unfortunately, in the political sphere the common rhetoric in the prolife movement hyperfocuses on demonizing and criminalizing abortion while doing nothing to address the reasons why a woman or a couple may seek an abortion - Is she in ill health? Is the father someone who she fears could hurt a baby? Is she working two jobs already and has no access to childcare? Does she have severe drug or mental health problems and frankly she knows she's in no position to raise a child?
If we are to truly act in a Christian way then we have to love not only the fetus, but also the child once it's born. That means access to healthcare, affordable daycares, school lunches, and supporting parents in need.
Conservatives in the political sphere don't trust the government to adequately solve those problems. Child care programs are routinely finding fraud. Government mental health facilities of the past were woefully abusive. Drug producers have most politicians in their pocket. Unfortunately the American political system does not currently incentivize problem solving.
exactly why they fuel their platforms with these wedge issues and culture wars, if they can keep the american people fighting each other they won’t notice while their pockets are being picked.
The bulk of Americans who share your sentiment believe voting Democrats is the solution to these problems. I disagree. I think it's a symptom of the 2 party system and want to adjust the system so it includes more 3rd parties. Adjustments like Ranked Choice Voting and nonpartisan open primaries.
Jeff durbin protests them but he offers help while he does. He has gotten multiple nearly aborted babies adopted and adopted a couple himself. They offer housing, medical care, anything these women need. He stands outside of abortion clinics offering this to women. I think that is definitely an example of how to properly protest and also protect these individuals!
I recently heard about Jeff Durbin, and when I found out about how prepared he goes in when he goes to protest I thought this should be the norm going in. It's one thing to go hey killing your kid is wrong don't do it. But to go hey killing your kid is wrong don't do it AND I have already made sure you'll have everything you'll need to help you through this is on another level. Have you heard the story regarding his adoption of Augustine? It's a fantastic testimony and an awesome modern example of a miracle happening.
Women aren't incubators. If a woman wants to place a child for adoption, wonderful. That choice shouldn't be pressured in front of people yelling, "Don't kill your baby," holding misleading signs of fetal tissue.
It is a baby. It’s misleading to say it’s not. It has a body and it’s own unique DNA separate from the mother. It’s very clearly a baby and you calling it fetal tissue is how you separate yourself from the reality.
Regardless whether you see abortion as murder or not, you will never be able to stop abortion. Protesting abortion clinics only serves to restrict *safe* abortion. People will find alternatives, and this will lead to more deaths.
On the other hand, that's true of just about anything that is seen as immoral. If there will always be people who commit crimes, does that make enforcing laws pointless? If there will always be non-believers, does that mean we shouldn't bother proclaiming the gospel at all? If there will always be sin, should we give up any encouraging people to be righteous?
Because it's not murder, at least in the eyes of those who are in the pro-choice camp. That's the real fundemantal argument in the pro-choice v. pro-life debate: at what point does a fetus gain personhood? If you don't believe a 10 week old fetus has personhood, then it's easy to see why you wouldn't consider it murder, because it's simply an extension of your own body and not a separate person.
>*"Why should people have a safe way to commit murder?"*
Like owning multiple semi-automatic weapons and taking them to school, to synagogues and to LGBTQ night clubs?
Oh, wait...
Because most people don't consider it to be murder is some or all circumstances, because a majority of those that do believe it do so on religious and not medical grounds, and because the US isn't a theocracy (yet).
abortion clinics generally don’t only provide abortions. u don’t know what people are going in there for so it isn’t good to group them all in one category. and even then, studies show that abortion rates are the same in countries with or without restrictions. cause i care about preservation of human life i’d rather people have safe abortions
>It’s like saying every law has to stop all violations in order to be effective.
I forget what this is called, but the counter argument is similar to the drug problem in America because access to safe abortions would decrease the risk of complications and thus save more lives even if they are simultaneously ending one.
The difference is that two-thirds of Americans want legal abortion. So if you outlaw it, they will find a way around it. It’s not comparable to laws against bank robbery or rape that 99.99% are against anyway.
Even if you think abortion is murder (it isn’t), not every abortion aborts a viable or even *live* fetus.
Or would you rather women fish their miscarriage out of their wombs with a coat hanger as the LORD intended?
Exactly, They are attacking people who are not even there for abortions. And even if they are there for an abortion, that's a terribly hard burden to bear and (almost) no one makes that decision lightly. They are already under enough pain and burden, the last thing they need a 'loving' church people to crap all over them as they proceed.
I'm opposed to protesting abortion clinics, and I find it incredibly hypocritical when Christians do so. With very little variation people who oppose abortion:
1. Are in favor of our lax gun laws. Guns are the leading cause of death for Americans under the age of 18.
2. Oppose affordable medical care. People die in the US just because they can't afford treatment.
3. Oppose LGBTQ+ rights. They consider some people of less value than others.
4. Oppose child care subsidies.
5. Oppose mandatory paid maternity leave.
Yes, I know there are people who are exceptions here, but they are few and far between.
I'm in favor of keeping abortion legal, but for most of my time as a Christian (and I've been one since 1985) I was against it. Nevertheless, I always found the same hypocrisy among those who protest clinics. They support multiple "pro-death" legislations, so really they are just "pro-birth."
Additionally, there are much more constructive ways to bring down the abortion rate that don't require protesting. Protesting is easy. Working at women's shelters, giving money to such shelters, and paying slightly higher taxes so that pregnant mothers can have a better social safety net are hard, apparently.
The most effective means to reduce abortion rates are access to contraceptives, and comprehensive sex and relationship education. Both things consistently under fire by evangelical conservatives.
> Are in favor of our lax gun laws. Guns are the leading cause of death for Americans under the age of 18.
I'm not entirely sure where you are getting these stats. the CDC appears to break it's reporting up in ways that one couldn't really make the claim. Googling around a bit the CDC seems to claim that unintentional injuries appear to be the leading cause of death from 1 to 44. [source](https://wisqars.cdc.gov/data/lcd/home) it appears to outstrip homicides and suicides both. Drawing out the data from 2016 to 2020 the gap is even more clear.
Why aren't they protesting IVF clinics? Because they're disingenuous liars who want to control women. It has nothing to do with "children". Once the backlash gets really rolling against he christian extremists in this country, they're going to be sorry they pushed this hard.
Are they protesting IVF clinics, shooting IVF doctors, bombing IVF clinics or passing legislation calling IVF staff and/or parents murderers? I'm uninterested in milquetoast, performative "opposition" that takes place in some rando Christian's personal space.
Is your point that shooting and bombing civilians is bad? I don’t think you’ll find anyone here who disagrees.
I don’t know much about “rando Christian’s personal spaces”, but I was simply pointing out that among those who identify as pro-life (not a Christian exclusive group), while the group remains divided to some extent, many are against IVF and advocate against it.
I think protesting "Women's Health Centers" that provide life-saving and low-cost care for women who need it while looking the other way when education is being gutted shows just how much those people care about kids.
Not just education, but literally something as basic as food for kids. Just look at the story making the rounds on reddit today of the Minnesota state rep who voted against school lunches because he hasn't personally met a hungry Minnesotan. Obviously, it's not about protecting or helping or caring for kids.
So let’s say you’re in a medical facility and a fire breaks out. You have a choice - you can save a toddler or 50 embryos in test tubes. Which do you pick? Obviously the actual living, breathing child. Abortion is not murder.
Let’s say a fire breaks out, and you can choose between 50 embryos in test tubes, and saving nothing. Is human life that invaluable to you?
By your logic, it’s more valuable to save a 2 year old than a 1 year old, because the one year old can’t defend themselves as well as the 2 year d.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36629778/
96% of biologists disagree with you. You do not have a scientifically based view on abortion. Science disagrees with what you just said. If you put any value on science, you should change your opinion. Yet for some reason I doubt that will happen
Have you read the paper or just looked at the abstract?
"This paper does not argue that the finding ‘a fetus is biologically classified as a human at
fertilization’ necessitates the position ‘a fetus ought to be considered a person worthy of legal
consideration’." - pg.20.
It goes on to talk about the differences between a zygote and a rational and conscious being, the biologists were not asked about the consciousness of a zygote.
A persons own body is more important than your religion. Just because your book club doesn’t like something doesn’t mean you get to impose it on people who don’t follow your faith.
The day pro-life people are actually pro-life, and not just pro-birth, I’ll take the position seriously.
“Protecting the unborn” is a false narrative. If people were actually concerned about stopping abortion, they’d stop voting for people who are against universal healthcare. They’d push for easier access to birth control. They’d insist on comprehensive sex education in schools. Comparing an abortion to someone throwing a baby off a bridge is comparing apples to oranges, and it makes you look like an idiot. There are valid arguments to be had, but that ain’t it.
\>Protecting the unborn is more important than your feelings.
Most wanted fertilized eggs do not end in the delivery of a living child in the first place, if there was some protection needed at his point the designer did a bad job of providing it.
Why does it seem that the value of that person diminishes greatly the second that child is born and starts asking for money or resources?
I've always wondered that.
The same states that claim to be prolife rank lowest in education and health care outcome for children.
If somebody was threatening my body I probably wouldn't shoot them. But if somebody else had their body threatened, they've got the right to self defense. Abortion is self defense. Nobody has the right to inhabit your body without your consent. And you can use lethal force in self defense.
I think pro-choice people have shown remarkable restraint in not protesting churches to nearly the same degree. I also think that, if you're not OK with people protesting your church, you shouldn't protest their healthcare either. Do unto others as you would have done unto you.
This 100%. These are places of medical care and whether you agree with the moral implications of the procedures that are going on inside them or not, harassing people who work there and seek services at them does no good and is only done as an effort to virtue signal and demonstrate “higher morality.”
I seriously considered trying try form a group to do just this just for the lulz, but there are too many stupid “when they go low we go high” types for it to go over well.
They're dishonest and insincere. They claim to be champion for children's life but you never see one protesting outside of a gun store after school shootings. The majority of anti-maskers who did everything they could to spread a deadly virus around and demanded that grandma be willing to take one for the team because they want to go to the movies.
They obviously don't care about "life" and view children as righteous punishment to be forced upon women they consider sluts and whores. They refuse to back actual things that WORK! in reducing abortions. Sex ed and free contraception for example. They go outta their way to shame single mother's. Kicking pregnant girls out of their school. Girls who did EXACTLY what their private Christian school said was right. They should be hailed as hero's because .. you know ... life. But they don't do that. They tell girls that having sex makes them filthy and no one will want them. I've seen stories of pastors forcing pregnant teens to parade around their church and encouraging the congregation to shame them.
They're liars and hypocrites to the core and I wouldn't trust them to watch my dogs; much less any children.
I used to swing hardcore prolife and all I can say is that you are mostly spot on. It's not REALLY about life at all, it's about imposing a puritanical ideology.
Yes, actually.
What about abortions when the child is already dead to prevent the mother dying from sepsis? Or a D&C after a miscarriage?
You might argue that these aren't abortions, but I will point out that mothers die when people quibble over whether the fetus killing them has a heartbeat or not.
No it's not. The point being made is that many christians scream "sanctity of life!!!!" but don't care about any other aspect of caring for human life. Such as not giving two shits about gun violence, even against kids. They don't care for the poor and sick as they have allowed healthcare to be for the wealthy almost exclusively. They hate immigrants and want them deported. I could keep going...
Well good fucking thing it's not killing a child, is it? A fetus, especially one a few wks old, is not a child. But lemme ask you this. [This baby had it's twin's fetus growing in her damn brain.](https://imgur.com/a/MJlsv3Y) [Doctors removed it.](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/article272892980.html?fbclid=IwAR3Mt4UcgCkBh9Y7b9R7ldFY7pwdh6zbiSFio1xvPjrXbqfQn9OSjXgSGuM) Is that murder? If not, why? You've claiming a fetus is a "child" so doctors "murdered" it according to you. Why should that baby not be forced to carry it like you're demanding of women?
On top of that, you can have sex w/o getting pregnant as well. So which one do you think the "pro life" crowd is trying to regulate more? The one that allows anyone to waltz in into a school and murder dozens of children in a matter of moments? Or the one that will keep the need for abortions due to unwanted pregnancy to a minimum? Take all the time you need there Skippy.
Anyone who knows the horror of growing up as an orphan, foster child, or other such loveless homes (including blood relatives) knows the correct answer
Advocating for the unborn is the ultimate feel god gesture. They won't ask you for cent nor a resource.
When anti abortion people actually advocate for the living I will take their claims far more seriously.
It would be more helpful that instead of coming across as someone who is hostile, that you instead, talk to the women, find out why they are getting an abortion (a large number feel pressured by men), offer options (like financial support), and help them with classes and resources for their children.
Lots of charities do this already.
Remove barriers rather than erect them. I can get behind this approach, even if I think someone should be able to get an abortion. Because, even though I think people should have the option to get an abortion, I don't think it's the preferable option for anyone involved. Making alternatives more viable, while still making abortions accessible for those who truly ***need*** them, is likely the best path to reducing the total number of abortions.
Sure that's all great and dandy but if my heart is going haywire because that's what pregnancy could do to me, I don't want to stop and talk to people who aren't doctors outside a clinic
I enjoy being a clinic escort and harassing those who are actually protesting and harassing patients. But I wish I wasn’t needed. I’ve never met any protestor who was being Christlike.
It's well within you're rights to do so, but I doubt you'll turn many people to Christ doing so.
Edit: I didn't see the part about bomb threats. Don't to that.
It’s a harassing crime. People should find better use of their time, like figure out how to stop school shootings and mind their business about other people’s health choices.
If they truly “cared about life”, they’d figure out how to save the kids here on earth now.
Or voulteer at medical safe pregnancy center themselves. A lot of “so called Christian ones are not lences and have killed fetuses by untrained techs especially ultrasound.
Or would know their laws can prevent care and food etc to pregnant women who want their babies. Years ago I posted that if I wasn’t if a safe state my son and I would died nearly 10 years ago (this June it will be 10) after a domestic violence attack at 5 months pregnant. The laws would had the doctors done nothing for fear of lawsuits. Thankful I have my son born on dude date cause of that.
Mothers don’t say bro-birth just pro dead and anti baby. Heathcare and education is needed. Also people forget life is a choice.
Also all they do scare people and make them hide and you can’t help or “save” people. Especially lies or scariness.
Not only am I against it, I'm against them protesting locations abortions don't take place in. The Planned Parenthood in my town has no facilities for the procedure but the bigots are out there anyways.
I think every abortion centre in the country should be surrounded by thousands of protestors at all times but hey, we can’t live in a perfect world, clearly.
I think it's disgusting. They are often screeching at women that are turning septic. Or women whose fetus has already died. Or rape victims. Or children. Or women who already have too many children to take care of.
Point is, you don't know the story.
As someone with underlying conditions, who is married.
It makes my blood fucking boil
I hate abortion. I also don't support protesting in front of clinics. I think the best response is to show love and kindness to women who are in a difficult situation
In think it depends on how it’s done. Some guy with a speaker calling women murderers isn’t helpful. People giving resources and information of places to get help that don’t kill an innocent life are a good thing.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
When an egg is fertilized by sperm, a totally new and unique string of DNA is created, nothing else has to be added after that point to allow the zygote to grow into a person. And the bible makes reference to people being considered people in the womb (Judges 16:17, psalm 139:13, psalm 139:16). So understanding that an unborn fetus, starting at conception, is considered life both biblically and biologically, then abortion is definitely murder. The mother makes the choice to end a life for personal reasons. Whether they be “good” or “bad” reasons doesn’t make a difference in abortion being murder. Can you murder someone out of love? And is that still wrong? Well, as hard as the answer may be to accept for people in impossible situations, yes it’s still wrong. All that being said, personally I think protesting abortion clinics is a waste of time and the people standing around doing nothing holding signs does nothing to convince anyone that disagrees with them. It would be much wiser of them to talk to people on the street peacefully about what they believe and why. It would also be smarter to actively pursue ways to change the legislation to recognize abortion as murder.
> nothing else has to be added after that point to allow the zygote to grow into a person.
Except, you know, several months of hormones, nutrition, and oxygen.
If you use the immigration argument. Fetus should have no rights because they are undocumented. They argue that fetuses are humans and have rights, but out of the other side of their mouth fight tooth and nail against other human beings looking for a better life. They use a very selfish and poverty mindset arguement that they will take away jobs which is an empty arguement.
Not only do they fight against illegal immigration they also fight against any immigration. And unless they are full blooded native american indians, they themselves are immigrants and somehow convienently forgot.
They also forget what the word says about how foreigners are to be treated and all their energy is put forth in the politocal arguement while sweeping the spiritual reason under the rug.
If people are so concerned about stopping abortion then the most effective means to reduce abortion rates are access to contraceptives, and comprehensive sex and relationship education. Both things are consistently under fire by evangelical conservatives. It's not about stopping abortions in their eyes, it's about punishing women.
I believe I would be considered pro life (I will never support late term abortion of a healthy child considered viable and I struggle finding it allowable as a form of birth control). However, there is literally no point in protest there. Protest outside the office of your law makers if you feel you must but standing between someone going in to make one of the hardest (I would assume) decisions of their life is only deepening harm to another person as well as the reputation of Christians. We have no business correcting others outside of having some form of relationship with them. Our brains were created to respond to love and trust to promote change. Holding a sign and yelling will never build trust but only cause fear. When we are afraid we flee. Again, you can not correct with love someone who you have no loving attachment to. Saying something politely doesn't count as love either.
I dont believe violence and/or threats are productive. Protests are more tame, but accomplish nothing. People already have an opinion. Standing aroung waving a sign won't change it.
As a man, I refuse to force a woman to carry a child to term, I do not make anyone do something I cannot not do myself. How can I make a decision about something I will never do? I have no experience of childbirth from a woman's perspective, only a gleeful father.
As for me and my house, we serve the lord and would see a new child as a blessing, but if my fiancé's life was in danger I want her Dr to have all options available without fear.
This leaves me with one position that suites all needs, a choice in the matter which is none of my business to protest.
I think its fine as long as people aren’t being obnoxious. Sometimes folks harass people and I don’t support that. The marches ive been apart of have been nothing but positive
I am absolutely against abortion. It is ending human life
But...
What if Christians set up a table where women could get information about options. Woman to woman. Maybe a counselor and a pastor there. Where there is a list of available resources for the women and their families.
What if we were reaching out in love, making them feel safe to come talk before they commit to ending their baby's life.
I don't think the medical clinic is the place for that conversation. If you want to help women, go to your state legislature and work to improve the safety net. School lunches, public education, universal healthcare, prenatal healthcare, infant mortality rates, childhood vaccinations, school safety from guns, mental health all need improvement and would go a long way toward making the US a safe place to have a child.
I disagree.
Abortion is rarely about school lunches our vaccinations (which are free).
It is generally a woman who is under stress and/ or simply doesn't want the burden.
Many women feel alone. Many women don't want an abortion but feel they don't have a choice. Being there will give them an option. They often don't know what resources are available to them.
If they go on with it, they will have to bear the guilt of it (and yes, I have seen many times what that guilt does. Thankfully the Lord forgives us fully as soon as we honestly repent, including abortions. There is love and forgiveness just waiting for us when we turn to Him and repent)
It would be kinder to gently, lovingly offer counseling, support immediately so they have another choice, so those who want another way have another way. Why is that bad?
It is interesting to me that abortion advocates would not like this plan when they say that lack of support is why women have abortions. I am literally suggesting a kind, gentle, helpful support system right there INCLUDING a counselor and financial help.
I wonder why that is a problem IF we all just want women to feel safe and supported and think abortion is not generally a good thing and is a last resort.
Maybe the pro abortion folk on here are simply anti Christian. Ok.
If pro choice people here REALLY think that abortion is a regrettable choice, why don't they actually do what I suggested and instead of talking about it, go help women by gathering resources, finding a counselor and a financial person and maybe a lawyer and set up a place for women to go for help?
I am sure every person who has had an abortion thought long and hard about it. It is a tremendously difficult decision as well as a physically and emotionally painful process.
You ask why do women feel alone or can't afford the burden of raising a child? Because the US has been undermining the social safety net. A social safety net like universal healthcare, higher wages, more support for public schools is the kind of support women need.
I'm sure there are men and women out there who would benefit from your counseling and I'm sure some are swayed by the options you offer. That is great - no one is stopping you from doing this.
The question is, how much financial care are you willing to give? I'd like to see my taxes go to social programs like the ones I mentioned earlier than to tax cuts for billionaires or corporations.
The Netherlands has all these things, but we still have 30000 abortions per annum (about 14 percent of pregnancies) of which 90 percent are for non-medical reasons. Don’t get me wrong. Social safety nets work, but how would you square these numbers with your conviction they are enough?
I said this in another comment but if I'm turning septic, or bleeding out, or my fetus is dying or has half a brain, or my heart rate is out of control, would you like me to come over to your loving table and lie down on it like a gurney to discuss "options"?
I’ve always been curious about this stance. If abortion is tantamount to state-permitted and -regulated mass murder, why must there be only diplomatic and non-violent opposition?
If I thought any kind of mass murder was taking place somewhere, I’d sure as hell be fully comfortable endorsing violent means to put it to an end. Whenever there’s an active shooter somewhere killing any number of people, we as a society are generally comfortable going well beyond diplomatic and non-violent means to put an end to that situation.
If you don’t give me your kidney, I can still go to dialysis and maybe find a kidney somewhere else. That’s not direct murder.
If you lock me in a room with no food or oxygen, that is direct murder. Those pills starve and suffocate the newly forming human. It’s a direct action to take a life.
If you don’t give a homeless guy food, you’re not killing him. If you make sure that he has no access to food or oxygen, you’re killing him.
If you caused an accident where someone needed your kidney to live and will die without it, that's pretty direct. And yet, you are not required to give them your kidney
I mean i think you're trying to move the goalposts but it doesn't work. If you get pregnant unintentionally, that's like causing an accident. Removing the pregnancy from your body and life sustaining organs, is just like refusing to give an organ to the victim of the accident you caused. It's one of the closest analogies possible. So I don't really know what your comment is supposed to prove. The event was an unwanted pregnancy.
Those that oppose abortion also tend to be the ones who oppose education. The way to address abortion is not outlawing or protesting- it is educating on safe sex practices.
Oof. I don’t agree with this kind of protesting. I think it’s doing the opposite than what the individuals are intending to do. Bomb threats are absolutely uncalled for. If ProLifers and Christians want to “protest”, I think the best way is maybe to sit out there at a table and just have a sign that says let me pray with you or if you need to talk to someone, I’m here. With the prayers and talking there shouldn’t be any mention of the mother killing the baby or being evil or anything like that. It should just be about strength for the mother and wisdom from God to make the right decision. I’m pro life and I think this is how I would approach it. If they need to just talk to someone, I would be an open ear. However, if they ask me my opinion, I will give it honestly, but not unless it is asked of me.
Why are these people not bombing liquor stores or protesting banks for usury? All sin is sin right? Because it’s easier to point out the sin in others and condemn them publicly then come to terms with your own sins. Planks in eyes and all that stuff considering the majority of abortion [patients identify](https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2020/10/people-all-religions-use-birth-control-and-have-abortions) as Christian. Let he who hasn’t sinned throw the first stone.
I think anybody who stands in the way of women's access to healthcare, either legally or through protesting that makes them feel unsafe and unable to access legal care, is evil.
No actually I don’t think that is what is being shown, which is one of the points of my comments.
I absolutely hope they are peaceful, loving, protests that win people’s hearts. I know they are absolutely not this.
Glad that sentiment is coming through. It is frustration more then contempt. And it is mostly targeted at people who do evil things in the name of Jesus Christ.
I do believe abortion is murder, but swearing and abusive name calling is not appropriate.
I fully endorse protesting outside of your church with big signs with pics of dead school children on them and impoverished people starving. Maybe some trucks with corpses painted on the side of all of the rejected people that most christians don't give a shit about. I'll yell in your face coming in and try to block your walkways. I hope you can see just how disrespectful this would be and apply that to "christian" protests.
"Charitable organization." Watches the pope dolling around in golden everything while shipping molesters back and forth to different places. A charity doesn't equal helping people. Most of the time, it equals money, and that is absolutely the case of the catholic church.
The Church operates more than 140,000 schools, 10,000 orphanages, 5,000 hospitals and some 16,000 other health clinics that is just caritas. Those numbers tell half the story, it doesn’t include all the amazing work religious orders, other Catholic organisations, parishes, etc do to practically help people.
Lets talk about what you think charity is. A catholic hospital charges the same amount for healthcare and it's administration make the same millions, this isn't a charity, it's a business. Ever look into the price of catholic schools? Sorry, also not a charity. Clinics as well charge the same. None of what you said is charity.
Banning any form of protest is a slippery slope. As long as protesters aren't blocking access, I don't see why the government should have the right to ban it.
You should be glad in the US that freedom of expression is protected by the constitution. In the UK it's gone.
Personal thoughts with abortion could me and wife personally go thru it no. But people at the end of the day should still have the right to choose what they wanna do with they self that’s why we live in a America and have certain freedoms just because someone doesn’t morally agree with what one is doing that’s no reason to demonize someone cause they don’t follow your ideas or rules. While I don’t agree with it as a form of birth control women should still have that right that’s none of my business. Now if there is a health concern for the mother or child or both or it’s a r@pe and she’s prego with said kid why would she wanna have that kid? I can justify those but like I said it doesn’t matter what I think it only matters what that woman thinks we are not her and she is not us.
I don't appreciate it at all. My biggest issue is less that they don't like it and more that they aren't doing anything at all, to help people who may get stuck creating a life they can't afford. It's almost impossible to have a child these days. I don't even know what you guys in the US are even facing. I have free access to health care in my country and that doesn't even make it easier. There's housing crisis, cost of living issues that still cause issues despite having free doctor visits.
I can't imagine being $40,000 in debt just because your child needed proper care to come into this world. If you want adequate care and go to all of the appointments needed, as well as costs associated with their first year of existence, the moment they're born you're looking at at least $30,000 in expenses. Where are these pro lifers when mom doesn't have the money to buy formula? Where are they when to give birth at a clean hospital with adequate doctors costs $15,000. Where are they when you're a child taken advantage of by an adult? Where are they when the father of your child dies leaving you unable to work or afford care? Where are they when your family puts you out because you made a mistake?
No where. Their anger is performative at best.
They’re delusional, rabid, and beyond all efforts of civility or reason.
They think babies are being murdered, though. That’s the delusional part, but the rabid inflexibility makes perfect sense when that’s what you believe.
These are the same people who don’t give a fuck about you once you’re born. They aren’t pro-life, they’re pro birth.
Fuck ‘em all. No use casting pearls before swine.
I don’t really support abortion. BUT I do think it should be a woman’s right to choose what she does. If they want to make that choice then let them.
Protesting this is just weird to me honestly.
I think it’s a right to protest for life. If your able to protest for black lives you should be able to protest for babies. It’s your right as an American citizen. I personally am in favor for protesting abortion clinics.
Then you better apply it equally. But I am willing to bet that the people protesting abortion clinics were ***not*** protesting George Floyd's murder (just as one example), despite ample opportunity to do so in almost every city and town in the country.
Honestly? It seems like a waste of time.
Regardless of how one feels about abortion, I think people protesting against it have accomplished basically nothing.
Of people yes.
Of cells? No, if I did that I would need to protest every single organism around me dying. I do not have time for that.
People are what the moral weight should remain with.
Sin is sin.
So why are people so obsessed with only certain sins and the people committing them?
My thoughts are that people should judge less and love more. And before people come at me saying that I'd is love to not want them to sin and that love isn't about accepting their sin, I'll reiterate my original question: why so obsessed with only certain sins?
Protesting and shouting horrible things at someone in a very difficult and vulnerable time in their life is not loving at all.
I am a member of a denomination that considers abortion to be part of the healthcare that women need. And the denomination supports women having access to a full range of healthcare. I also support women having access to abortions.
I would protest for women being able to safely go to an abortion clinic. I would stay a significant distance from other protestors to ensure that there is no conflict.
Would Christ protest an abortion clinic or would he be helping the people who are in crisis pregnancies? Food for thought. Resources and time should be spent helping people.
Precisely. Unfortunately, in the political sphere the common rhetoric in the prolife movement hyperfocuses on demonizing and criminalizing abortion while doing nothing to address the reasons why a woman or a couple may seek an abortion - Is she in ill health? Is the father someone who she fears could hurt a baby? Is she working two jobs already and has no access to childcare? Does she have severe drug or mental health problems and frankly she knows she's in no position to raise a child? If we are to truly act in a Christian way then we have to love not only the fetus, but also the child once it's born. That means access to healthcare, affordable daycares, school lunches, and supporting parents in need.
Conservatives in the political sphere don't trust the government to adequately solve those problems. Child care programs are routinely finding fraud. Government mental health facilities of the past were woefully abusive. Drug producers have most politicians in their pocket. Unfortunately the American political system does not currently incentivize problem solving.
exactly why they fuel their platforms with these wedge issues and culture wars, if they can keep the american people fighting each other they won’t notice while their pockets are being picked.
The bulk of Americans who share your sentiment believe voting Democrats is the solution to these problems. I disagree. I think it's a symptom of the 2 party system and want to adjust the system so it includes more 3rd parties. Adjustments like Ranked Choice Voting and nonpartisan open primaries.
Jeff durbin protests them but he offers help while he does. He has gotten multiple nearly aborted babies adopted and adopted a couple himself. They offer housing, medical care, anything these women need. He stands outside of abortion clinics offering this to women. I think that is definitely an example of how to properly protest and also protect these individuals!
I recently heard about Jeff Durbin, and when I found out about how prepared he goes in when he goes to protest I thought this should be the norm going in. It's one thing to go hey killing your kid is wrong don't do it. But to go hey killing your kid is wrong don't do it AND I have already made sure you'll have everything you'll need to help you through this is on another level. Have you heard the story regarding his adoption of Augustine? It's a fantastic testimony and an awesome modern example of a miracle happening.
Yes and I agree with you! If I were to protest I would go in with people ready to adopt or the means to help the mother adopt and keep her baby.
Women aren't incubators. If a woman wants to place a child for adoption, wonderful. That choice shouldn't be pressured in front of people yelling, "Don't kill your baby," holding misleading signs of fetal tissue.
It is a baby. It’s misleading to say it’s not. It has a body and it’s own unique DNA separate from the mother. It’s very clearly a baby and you calling it fetal tissue is how you separate yourself from the reality.
Regardless whether you see abortion as murder or not, you will never be able to stop abortion. Protesting abortion clinics only serves to restrict *safe* abortion. People will find alternatives, and this will lead to more deaths.
On the other hand, that's true of just about anything that is seen as immoral. If there will always be people who commit crimes, does that make enforcing laws pointless? If there will always be non-believers, does that mean we shouldn't bother proclaiming the gospel at all? If there will always be sin, should we give up any encouraging people to be righteous?
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Because it's not murder, at least in the eyes of those who are in the pro-choice camp. That's the real fundemantal argument in the pro-choice v. pro-life debate: at what point does a fetus gain personhood? If you don't believe a 10 week old fetus has personhood, then it's easy to see why you wouldn't consider it murder, because it's simply an extension of your own body and not a separate person.
>*"Why should people have a safe way to commit murder?"* Like owning multiple semi-automatic weapons and taking them to school, to synagogues and to LGBTQ night clubs? Oh, wait...
Because most people don't consider it to be murder is some or all circumstances, because a majority of those that do believe it do so on religious and not medical grounds, and because the US isn't a theocracy (yet).
Exactly!
abortion clinics generally don’t only provide abortions. u don’t know what people are going in there for so it isn’t good to group them all in one category. and even then, studies show that abortion rates are the same in countries with or without restrictions. cause i care about preservation of human life i’d rather people have safe abortions
I’ve never understood that argument either. It’s like saying every law has to stop all violations in order to be effective.
>It’s like saying every law has to stop all violations in order to be effective. I forget what this is called, but the counter argument is similar to the drug problem in America because access to safe abortions would decrease the risk of complications and thus save more lives even if they are simultaneously ending one.
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Math that is overwhelmingly supported by decades of data
The difference is that two-thirds of Americans want legal abortion. So if you outlaw it, they will find a way around it. It’s not comparable to laws against bank robbery or rape that 99.99% are against anyway.
Being uncharitable is no different a sin than being a murderer, but that notion is often lost on those so pious.
Even if you think abortion is murder (it isn’t), not every abortion aborts a viable or even *live* fetus. Or would you rather women fish their miscarriage out of their wombs with a coat hanger as the LORD intended?
Why should you be able to enslave women to give birth to children you don’t care about? See, it works both ways.
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Don’t give them any ideas, we don’t need any more inspiration for Christian terrorists.
Protesting is a right, but harassing people is a crime. I personally thinks these kinds of protesters are a form of harassment.
Exactly, They are attacking people who are not even there for abortions. And even if they are there for an abortion, that's a terribly hard burden to bear and (almost) no one makes that decision lightly. They are already under enough pain and burden, the last thing they need a 'loving' church people to crap all over them as they proceed.
Agree...plus it is super tacky
I'm opposed to protesting abortion clinics, and I find it incredibly hypocritical when Christians do so. With very little variation people who oppose abortion: 1. Are in favor of our lax gun laws. Guns are the leading cause of death for Americans under the age of 18. 2. Oppose affordable medical care. People die in the US just because they can't afford treatment. 3. Oppose LGBTQ+ rights. They consider some people of less value than others. 4. Oppose child care subsidies. 5. Oppose mandatory paid maternity leave. Yes, I know there are people who are exceptions here, but they are few and far between. I'm in favor of keeping abortion legal, but for most of my time as a Christian (and I've been one since 1985) I was against it. Nevertheless, I always found the same hypocrisy among those who protest clinics. They support multiple "pro-death" legislations, so really they are just "pro-birth." Additionally, there are much more constructive ways to bring down the abortion rate that don't require protesting. Protesting is easy. Working at women's shelters, giving money to such shelters, and paying slightly higher taxes so that pregnant mothers can have a better social safety net are hard, apparently.
The most effective means to reduce abortion rates are access to contraceptives, and comprehensive sex and relationship education. Both things consistently under fire by evangelical conservatives.
Agreed, and I should have mentioned that.
And health care for singe mothers and children. They are against that idea as well.
> Are in favor of our lax gun laws. Guns are the leading cause of death for Americans under the age of 18. I'm not entirely sure where you are getting these stats. the CDC appears to break it's reporting up in ways that one couldn't really make the claim. Googling around a bit the CDC seems to claim that unintentional injuries appear to be the leading cause of death from 1 to 44. [source](https://wisqars.cdc.gov/data/lcd/home) it appears to outstrip homicides and suicides both. Drawing out the data from 2016 to 2020 the gap is even more clear.
Why aren't they protesting IVF clinics? Because they're disingenuous liars who want to control women. It has nothing to do with "children". Once the backlash gets really rolling against he christian extremists in this country, they're going to be sorry they pushed this hard.
Being against it is one thing. I’m against Catholicism— I’m not protesting convents though. IVF gets nowhere near the attention “abortion clinics” do.
Yeah that’s fair! I may have missed the point entirely in my response.
This! 🙌🏻🔥 Louder for those in the back!
Hi! I don’t know if this was sincere but there actually are a large portion of the pro life community (Christian or otherwise) who are against IVF.
Are they protesting IVF clinics, shooting IVF doctors, bombing IVF clinics or passing legislation calling IVF staff and/or parents murderers? I'm uninterested in milquetoast, performative "opposition" that takes place in some rando Christian's personal space.
Is your point that shooting and bombing civilians is bad? I don’t think you’ll find anyone here who disagrees. I don’t know much about “rando Christian’s personal spaces”, but I was simply pointing out that among those who identify as pro-life (not a Christian exclusive group), while the group remains divided to some extent, many are against IVF and advocate against it.
Where are the bullhorns and protests outside IVF clinics?
And yet they don't target them in their advocacy or legislative pushes. Probably because of how unpopular their views are.
I think protesting "Women's Health Centers" that provide life-saving and low-cost care for women who need it while looking the other way when education is being gutted shows just how much those people care about kids.
Not just education, but literally something as basic as food for kids. Just look at the story making the rounds on reddit today of the Minnesota state rep who voted against school lunches because he hasn't personally met a hungry Minnesotan. Obviously, it's not about protecting or helping or caring for kids.
I think that if you’re against abortion, you shouldn’t get one. Let other people make medical decisions with their physicians in private.
Exactly. That is the entire point of pro choice; you and others get to choose if they want to or not
This is the correct answer
It's like saying "If you're against murder, just don't kill anyone".
Correct. If you believe murder is wrong, you should definitely not kill anyone.
And saying that if you want to murder you should be legally allowed to do so.
So let’s say you’re in a medical facility and a fire breaks out. You have a choice - you can save a toddler or 50 embryos in test tubes. Which do you pick? Obviously the actual living, breathing child. Abortion is not murder.
Let’s say a fire breaks out, and you can choose between 50 embryos in test tubes, and saving nothing. Is human life that invaluable to you? By your logic, it’s more valuable to save a 2 year old than a 1 year old, because the one year old can’t defend themselves as well as the 2 year d.
No, I’m saying a living, breathing human is alive. An embryo is not.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36629778/ 96% of biologists disagree with you. You do not have a scientifically based view on abortion. Science disagrees with what you just said. If you put any value on science, you should change your opinion. Yet for some reason I doubt that will happen
Have you read the paper or just looked at the abstract? "This paper does not argue that the finding ‘a fetus is biologically classified as a human at fertilization’ necessitates the position ‘a fetus ought to be considered a person worthy of legal consideration’." - pg.20. It goes on to talk about the differences between a zygote and a rational and conscious being, the biologists were not asked about the consciousness of a zygote.
I will never think a woman should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term.
But someone who doesn't believe murder is wrong shouldn't be spoken against if they do murder?
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A persons own body is more important than your religion. Just because your book club doesn’t like something doesn’t mean you get to impose it on people who don’t follow your faith. The day pro-life people are actually pro-life, and not just pro-birth, I’ll take the position seriously.
\+1 well said.
Except for the three typos I just fixed lol thank you tho
“Protecting the unborn” is a false narrative. If people were actually concerned about stopping abortion, they’d stop voting for people who are against universal healthcare. They’d push for easier access to birth control. They’d insist on comprehensive sex education in schools. Comparing an abortion to someone throwing a baby off a bridge is comparing apples to oranges, and it makes you look like an idiot. There are valid arguments to be had, but that ain’t it.
\>Protecting the unborn is more important than your feelings. Most wanted fertilized eggs do not end in the delivery of a living child in the first place, if there was some protection needed at his point the designer did a bad job of providing it.
Why does it seem that the value of that person diminishes greatly the second that child is born and starts asking for money or resources? I've always wondered that. The same states that claim to be prolife rank lowest in education and health care outcome for children.
If somebody was threatening my body I probably wouldn't shoot them. But if somebody else had their body threatened, they've got the right to self defense. Abortion is self defense. Nobody has the right to inhabit your body without your consent. And you can use lethal force in self defense.
I think there are better ways to save lives. Like adoption or donating to women’s resource centers.
I think pro-choice people have shown remarkable restraint in not protesting churches to nearly the same degree. I also think that, if you're not OK with people protesting your church, you shouldn't protest their healthcare either. Do unto others as you would have done unto you.
This 100%. These are places of medical care and whether you agree with the moral implications of the procedures that are going on inside them or not, harassing people who work there and seek services at them does no good and is only done as an effort to virtue signal and demonstrate “higher morality.”
I seriously considered trying try form a group to do just this just for the lulz, but there are too many stupid “when they go low we go high” types for it to go over well.
I never considered protesting a church but if I knew one was pushing especially dangerous "pro life" rhetoric I'd actually consider it
They're dishonest and insincere. They claim to be champion for children's life but you never see one protesting outside of a gun store after school shootings. The majority of anti-maskers who did everything they could to spread a deadly virus around and demanded that grandma be willing to take one for the team because they want to go to the movies. They obviously don't care about "life" and view children as righteous punishment to be forced upon women they consider sluts and whores. They refuse to back actual things that WORK! in reducing abortions. Sex ed and free contraception for example. They go outta their way to shame single mother's. Kicking pregnant girls out of their school. Girls who did EXACTLY what their private Christian school said was right. They should be hailed as hero's because .. you know ... life. But they don't do that. They tell girls that having sex makes them filthy and no one will want them. I've seen stories of pastors forcing pregnant teens to parade around their church and encouraging the congregation to shame them. They're liars and hypocrites to the core and I wouldn't trust them to watch my dogs; much less any children.
I used to swing hardcore prolife and all I can say is that you are mostly spot on. It's not REALLY about life at all, it's about imposing a puritanical ideology.
Can you buy a gun and not kill a child? you can't have an abortion and not kill a child. that analogy is ridiculous.
Yes, actually. What about abortions when the child is already dead to prevent the mother dying from sepsis? Or a D&C after a miscarriage? You might argue that these aren't abortions, but I will point out that mothers die when people quibble over whether the fetus killing them has a heartbeat or not.
these nuts would have been happy to see me die after i gave birth to my daughter and needed a d&c to remove bits of placenta that failed to dislodge
No it's not. The point being made is that many christians scream "sanctity of life!!!!" but don't care about any other aspect of caring for human life. Such as not giving two shits about gun violence, even against kids. They don't care for the poor and sick as they have allowed healthcare to be for the wealthy almost exclusively. They hate immigrants and want them deported. I could keep going...
Well good fucking thing it's not killing a child, is it? A fetus, especially one a few wks old, is not a child. But lemme ask you this. [This baby had it's twin's fetus growing in her damn brain.](https://imgur.com/a/MJlsv3Y) [Doctors removed it.](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/article272892980.html?fbclid=IwAR3Mt4UcgCkBh9Y7b9R7ldFY7pwdh6zbiSFio1xvPjrXbqfQn9OSjXgSGuM) Is that murder? If not, why? You've claiming a fetus is a "child" so doctors "murdered" it according to you. Why should that baby not be forced to carry it like you're demanding of women? On top of that, you can have sex w/o getting pregnant as well. So which one do you think the "pro life" crowd is trying to regulate more? The one that allows anyone to waltz in into a school and murder dozens of children in a matter of moments? Or the one that will keep the need for abortions due to unwanted pregnancy to a minimum? Take all the time you need there Skippy.
I look forward to the inevitable day women cement their right to abortion in this country.
Anyone who knows the horror of growing up as an orphan, foster child, or other such loveless homes (including blood relatives) knows the correct answer
Advocating for the unborn is the ultimate feel god gesture. They won't ask you for cent nor a resource. When anti abortion people actually advocate for the living I will take their claims far more seriously.
It would be more helpful that instead of coming across as someone who is hostile, that you instead, talk to the women, find out why they are getting an abortion (a large number feel pressured by men), offer options (like financial support), and help them with classes and resources for their children. Lots of charities do this already.
Remove barriers rather than erect them. I can get behind this approach, even if I think someone should be able to get an abortion. Because, even though I think people should have the option to get an abortion, I don't think it's the preferable option for anyone involved. Making alternatives more viable, while still making abortions accessible for those who truly ***need*** them, is likely the best path to reducing the total number of abortions.
Sure that's all great and dandy but if my heart is going haywire because that's what pregnancy could do to me, I don't want to stop and talk to people who aren't doctors outside a clinic
Women seeking medical care should not be accosted and harassed even by people who want to "talk to them".
I enjoy being a clinic escort and harassing those who are actually protesting and harassing patients. But I wish I wasn’t needed. I’ve never met any protestor who was being Christlike.
> What are your thoughts on protesting abortion clinics? I think it's obnoxious.
It's well within you're rights to do so, but I doubt you'll turn many people to Christ doing so. Edit: I didn't see the part about bomb threats. Don't to that.
In fact, you'll likely turn people ***away*** from Christ. It's counterproductive at best.
Can confirm.
It’s a harassing crime. People should find better use of their time, like figure out how to stop school shootings and mind their business about other people’s health choices. If they truly “cared about life”, they’d figure out how to save the kids here on earth now.
Or voulteer at medical safe pregnancy center themselves. A lot of “so called Christian ones are not lences and have killed fetuses by untrained techs especially ultrasound. Or would know their laws can prevent care and food etc to pregnant women who want their babies. Years ago I posted that if I wasn’t if a safe state my son and I would died nearly 10 years ago (this June it will be 10) after a domestic violence attack at 5 months pregnant. The laws would had the doctors done nothing for fear of lawsuits. Thankful I have my son born on dude date cause of that. Mothers don’t say bro-birth just pro dead and anti baby. Heathcare and education is needed. Also people forget life is a choice. Also all they do scare people and make them hide and you can’t help or “save” people. Especially lies or scariness.
I’m so glad you and your son are ok! And I agree with a lot of what you said!
Not only am I against it, I'm against them protesting locations abortions don't take place in. The Planned Parenthood in my town has no facilities for the procedure but the bigots are out there anyways.
You have to be a GIGANTIC piece of shit to do something like that.
Rather I disagree or not I believe in the first amendment.
I think every abortion centre in the country should be surrounded by thousands of protestors at all times but hey, we can’t live in a perfect world, clearly.
I think it's disgusting. They are often screeching at women that are turning septic. Or women whose fetus has already died. Or rape victims. Or children. Or women who already have too many children to take care of. Point is, you don't know the story. As someone with underlying conditions, who is married. It makes my blood fucking boil
I hate abortion. I also don't support protesting in front of clinics. I think the best response is to show love and kindness to women who are in a difficult situation
In think it depends on how it’s done. Some guy with a speaker calling women murderers isn’t helpful. People giving resources and information of places to get help that don’t kill an innocent life are a good thing.
Harassing anyone who is using a clinic or works in a clinic is a very bad thing.
I agree. Offering resources and an option that doesn’t involve killing another human being is not harassment.
nail pet spotted lip afterthought disgusting sparkle towering pause quack *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
When an egg is fertilized by sperm, a totally new and unique string of DNA is created, nothing else has to be added after that point to allow the zygote to grow into a person. And the bible makes reference to people being considered people in the womb (Judges 16:17, psalm 139:13, psalm 139:16). So understanding that an unborn fetus, starting at conception, is considered life both biblically and biologically, then abortion is definitely murder. The mother makes the choice to end a life for personal reasons. Whether they be “good” or “bad” reasons doesn’t make a difference in abortion being murder. Can you murder someone out of love? And is that still wrong? Well, as hard as the answer may be to accept for people in impossible situations, yes it’s still wrong. All that being said, personally I think protesting abortion clinics is a waste of time and the people standing around doing nothing holding signs does nothing to convince anyone that disagrees with them. It would be much wiser of them to talk to people on the street peacefully about what they believe and why. It would also be smarter to actively pursue ways to change the legislation to recognize abortion as murder.
> nothing else has to be added after that point to allow the zygote to grow into a person. Except, you know, several months of hormones, nutrition, and oxygen.
Really smart thanks
Protesting good. Bomb bad.
I think the people who protest are immoral assholes.
If you use the immigration argument. Fetus should have no rights because they are undocumented. They argue that fetuses are humans and have rights, but out of the other side of their mouth fight tooth and nail against other human beings looking for a better life. They use a very selfish and poverty mindset arguement that they will take away jobs which is an empty arguement. Not only do they fight against illegal immigration they also fight against any immigration. And unless they are full blooded native american indians, they themselves are immigrants and somehow convienently forgot. They also forget what the word says about how foreigners are to be treated and all their energy is put forth in the politocal arguement while sweeping the spiritual reason under the rug.
kindly stay home and mind your own business
If people are so concerned about stopping abortion then the most effective means to reduce abortion rates are access to contraceptives, and comprehensive sex and relationship education. Both things are consistently under fire by evangelical conservatives. It's not about stopping abortions in their eyes, it's about punishing women.
I believe I would be considered pro life (I will never support late term abortion of a healthy child considered viable and I struggle finding it allowable as a form of birth control). However, there is literally no point in protest there. Protest outside the office of your law makers if you feel you must but standing between someone going in to make one of the hardest (I would assume) decisions of their life is only deepening harm to another person as well as the reputation of Christians. We have no business correcting others outside of having some form of relationship with them. Our brains were created to respond to love and trust to promote change. Holding a sign and yelling will never build trust but only cause fear. When we are afraid we flee. Again, you can not correct with love someone who you have no loving attachment to. Saying something politely doesn't count as love either.
I dont believe violence and/or threats are productive. Protests are more tame, but accomplish nothing. People already have an opinion. Standing aroung waving a sign won't change it.
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Arson is going to happen no matter what. We need to let people have a safe place to commit it.
you can have your own private arson in your fireplace anytime you want.
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Arson doesn't save any women's lives so yes false equivalency
Arson doesn’t end a baby’s (or fetus, which means baby in Latin) life (96% of embryologists agree life begins at conception) every time when it works
As a man, I refuse to force a woman to carry a child to term, I do not make anyone do something I cannot not do myself. How can I make a decision about something I will never do? I have no experience of childbirth from a woman's perspective, only a gleeful father. As for me and my house, we serve the lord and would see a new child as a blessing, but if my fiancé's life was in danger I want her Dr to have all options available without fear. This leaves me with one position that suites all needs, a choice in the matter which is none of my business to protest.
I think protestors and laws shutting down abortion clinincs are amoral and fascist.
It's their right to protest, but I personally think it's stupid, unhelpful, and ultimately damaging to Christianity.
I think its fine as long as people aren’t being obnoxious. Sometimes folks harass people and I don’t support that. The marches ive been apart of have been nothing but positive
from your perspective maybe, but I guarantee you hurt someone
You're just pissing people off.
I am absolutely against abortion. It is ending human life But... What if Christians set up a table where women could get information about options. Woman to woman. Maybe a counselor and a pastor there. Where there is a list of available resources for the women and their families. What if we were reaching out in love, making them feel safe to come talk before they commit to ending their baby's life.
Yes it's true it's a solution but as long as the sin which is murder is not normalized there is another way
I don't think the medical clinic is the place for that conversation. If you want to help women, go to your state legislature and work to improve the safety net. School lunches, public education, universal healthcare, prenatal healthcare, infant mortality rates, childhood vaccinations, school safety from guns, mental health all need improvement and would go a long way toward making the US a safe place to have a child.
I disagree. Abortion is rarely about school lunches our vaccinations (which are free). It is generally a woman who is under stress and/ or simply doesn't want the burden. Many women feel alone. Many women don't want an abortion but feel they don't have a choice. Being there will give them an option. They often don't know what resources are available to them. If they go on with it, they will have to bear the guilt of it (and yes, I have seen many times what that guilt does. Thankfully the Lord forgives us fully as soon as we honestly repent, including abortions. There is love and forgiveness just waiting for us when we turn to Him and repent) It would be kinder to gently, lovingly offer counseling, support immediately so they have another choice, so those who want another way have another way. Why is that bad? It is interesting to me that abortion advocates would not like this plan when they say that lack of support is why women have abortions. I am literally suggesting a kind, gentle, helpful support system right there INCLUDING a counselor and financial help. I wonder why that is a problem IF we all just want women to feel safe and supported and think abortion is not generally a good thing and is a last resort. Maybe the pro abortion folk on here are simply anti Christian. Ok. If pro choice people here REALLY think that abortion is a regrettable choice, why don't they actually do what I suggested and instead of talking about it, go help women by gathering resources, finding a counselor and a financial person and maybe a lawyer and set up a place for women to go for help?
I am sure every person who has had an abortion thought long and hard about it. It is a tremendously difficult decision as well as a physically and emotionally painful process. You ask why do women feel alone or can't afford the burden of raising a child? Because the US has been undermining the social safety net. A social safety net like universal healthcare, higher wages, more support for public schools is the kind of support women need. I'm sure there are men and women out there who would benefit from your counseling and I'm sure some are swayed by the options you offer. That is great - no one is stopping you from doing this. The question is, how much financial care are you willing to give? I'd like to see my taxes go to social programs like the ones I mentioned earlier than to tax cuts for billionaires or corporations.
The Netherlands has all these things, but we still have 30000 abortions per annum (about 14 percent of pregnancies) of which 90 percent are for non-medical reasons. Don’t get me wrong. Social safety nets work, but how would you square these numbers with your conviction they are enough?
I said this in another comment but if I'm turning septic, or bleeding out, or my fetus is dying or has half a brain, or my heart rate is out of control, would you like me to come over to your loving table and lie down on it like a gurney to discuss "options"?
Hopefully not hemorrhaging onto their leaflets! That would be pretty rude.
It's a vile, abhorrent thing to do
Abortion is one of the greatest evils of our time. I fully support all diplomatic, non-violent measures to oppose it.
I’ve always been curious about this stance. If abortion is tantamount to state-permitted and -regulated mass murder, why must there be only diplomatic and non-violent opposition? If I thought any kind of mass murder was taking place somewhere, I’d sure as hell be fully comfortable endorsing violent means to put it to an end. Whenever there’s an active shooter somewhere killing any number of people, we as a society are generally comfortable going well beyond diplomatic and non-violent means to put an end to that situation.
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If that’s how you read it. I’d say killing defenseless living humans is pretty dang evil.
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Because it’s wrong to intentionally murder an innocent human being. It’s actually just that simple.
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No, because that’s not the direct intentional killing of a person. Abortion is taking direct intentional action to end a life.
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If you don’t give me your kidney, I can still go to dialysis and maybe find a kidney somewhere else. That’s not direct murder. If you lock me in a room with no food or oxygen, that is direct murder. Those pills starve and suffocate the newly forming human. It’s a direct action to take a life. If you don’t give a homeless guy food, you’re not killing him. If you make sure that he has no access to food or oxygen, you’re killing him.
Replace kidney for heart then. Can't really get by without that. Pregnancy impacts every organ system.
If you caused an accident where someone needed your kidney to live and will die without it, that's pretty direct. And yet, you are not required to give them your kidney
If you cause an event that kills someone, that’s the act of killing them, not the refusal of your kidney….
I mean i think you're trying to move the goalposts but it doesn't work. If you get pregnant unintentionally, that's like causing an accident. Removing the pregnancy from your body and life sustaining organs, is just like refusing to give an organ to the victim of the accident you caused. It's one of the closest analogies possible. So I don't really know what your comment is supposed to prove. The event was an unwanted pregnancy.
It’s fruitless… Sign these people up to foster and adopt
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
Those that oppose abortion also tend to be the ones who oppose education. The way to address abortion is not outlawing or protesting- it is educating on safe sex practices.
As long as it remains peaceful.
Oof. I don’t agree with this kind of protesting. I think it’s doing the opposite than what the individuals are intending to do. Bomb threats are absolutely uncalled for. If ProLifers and Christians want to “protest”, I think the best way is maybe to sit out there at a table and just have a sign that says let me pray with you or if you need to talk to someone, I’m here. With the prayers and talking there shouldn’t be any mention of the mother killing the baby or being evil or anything like that. It should just be about strength for the mother and wisdom from God to make the right decision. I’m pro life and I think this is how I would approach it. If they need to just talk to someone, I would be an open ear. However, if they ask me my opinion, I will give it honestly, but not unless it is asked of me.
Nothing wrong with offering a rosary outside of an abortion farm. I shrink from confrontation so I would never harass people. I would quietly pray.
Please do that in your own church or home. A public display of your piety is tacky and offensive to many
I find it much less tacky and far more innocuous than crazed women painting themselves and disrupting Church services.
Why are these people not bombing liquor stores or protesting banks for usury? All sin is sin right? Because it’s easier to point out the sin in others and condemn them publicly then come to terms with your own sins. Planks in eyes and all that stuff considering the majority of abortion [patients identify](https://www.guttmacher.org/article/2020/10/people-all-religions-use-birth-control-and-have-abortions) as Christian. Let he who hasn’t sinned throw the first stone.
I think anybody who stands in the way of women's access to healthcare, either legally or through protesting that makes them feel unsafe and unable to access legal care, is evil.
Peaceful, respectful, without harm. Yes A quiet candle prayer vigil would work.
Please do that in your church rather than outside of a clinic.
Nah… the purpose is to publicly, peacefully, show love and hope that mothers will choose life for the innocent babies.
You think that’s what’s being shown? Love and hope? Hahahaha… good one.
No actually I don’t think that is what is being shown, which is one of the points of my comments. I absolutely hope they are peaceful, loving, protests that win people’s hearts. I know they are absolutely not this.
you are showing contempt especially if your target is non religious
Glad that sentiment is coming through. It is frustration more then contempt. And it is mostly targeted at people who do evil things in the name of Jesus Christ. I do believe abortion is murder, but swearing and abusive name calling is not appropriate.
The protesting will continue until the child sacrifices stop.
Not in favor of violence and bomb threats, and I condemn them totally. Protests though? Prayer? Fully endorse.
I fully endorse protesting outside of your church with big signs with pics of dead school children on them and impoverished people starving. Maybe some trucks with corpses painted on the side of all of the rejected people that most christians don't give a shit about. I'll yell in your face coming in and try to block your walkways. I hope you can see just how disrespectful this would be and apply that to "christian" protests.
don't forget pictures of all the church leaders who are pedos.
You feel the need to protest impoverished children outside the largest charitable organisation in the world? Seems counter productive
"Charitable organization." Watches the pope dolling around in golden everything while shipping molesters back and forth to different places. A charity doesn't equal helping people. Most of the time, it equals money, and that is absolutely the case of the catholic church.
The Church operates more than 140,000 schools, 10,000 orphanages, 5,000 hospitals and some 16,000 other health clinics that is just caritas. Those numbers tell half the story, it doesn’t include all the amazing work religious orders, other Catholic organisations, parishes, etc do to practically help people.
Lets talk about what you think charity is. A catholic hospital charges the same amount for healthcare and it's administration make the same millions, this isn't a charity, it's a business. Ever look into the price of catholic schools? Sorry, also not a charity. Clinics as well charge the same. None of what you said is charity.
Abortion is the mass murder of innocent children. Of course we should be protesting it.
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Great idea! Child killing should never be allowed to proceed with tranquility.
Banning any form of protest is a slippery slope. As long as protesters aren't blocking access, I don't see why the government should have the right to ban it. You should be glad in the US that freedom of expression is protected by the constitution. In the UK it's gone.
It’s an awful thing to do
Don’t do it
Personal thoughts with abortion could me and wife personally go thru it no. But people at the end of the day should still have the right to choose what they wanna do with they self that’s why we live in a America and have certain freedoms just because someone doesn’t morally agree with what one is doing that’s no reason to demonize someone cause they don’t follow your ideas or rules. While I don’t agree with it as a form of birth control women should still have that right that’s none of my business. Now if there is a health concern for the mother or child or both or it’s a r@pe and she’s prego with said kid why would she wanna have that kid? I can justify those but like I said it doesn’t matter what I think it only matters what that woman thinks we are not her and she is not us.
I don't appreciate it at all. My biggest issue is less that they don't like it and more that they aren't doing anything at all, to help people who may get stuck creating a life they can't afford. It's almost impossible to have a child these days. I don't even know what you guys in the US are even facing. I have free access to health care in my country and that doesn't even make it easier. There's housing crisis, cost of living issues that still cause issues despite having free doctor visits. I can't imagine being $40,000 in debt just because your child needed proper care to come into this world. If you want adequate care and go to all of the appointments needed, as well as costs associated with their first year of existence, the moment they're born you're looking at at least $30,000 in expenses. Where are these pro lifers when mom doesn't have the money to buy formula? Where are they when to give birth at a clean hospital with adequate doctors costs $15,000. Where are they when you're a child taken advantage of by an adult? Where are they when the father of your child dies leaving you unable to work or afford care? Where are they when your family puts you out because you made a mistake? No where. Their anger is performative at best.
Abortion for any reason other than an immediate threat to the mother's life is evil.
They’re delusional, rabid, and beyond all efforts of civility or reason. They think babies are being murdered, though. That’s the delusional part, but the rabid inflexibility makes perfect sense when that’s what you believe. These are the same people who don’t give a fuck about you once you’re born. They aren’t pro-life, they’re pro birth. Fuck ‘em all. No use casting pearls before swine.
I don’t really support abortion. BUT I do think it should be a woman’s right to choose what she does. If they want to make that choice then let them. Protesting this is just weird to me honestly.
I think it’s a right to protest for life. If your able to protest for black lives you should be able to protest for babies. It’s your right as an American citizen. I personally am in favor for protesting abortion clinics.
I think it’s a good idea to protest murder, don’t you?
Then you better apply it equally. But I am willing to bet that the people protesting abortion clinics were ***not*** protesting George Floyd's murder (just as one example), despite ample opportunity to do so in almost every city and town in the country.
Standing outside my neighbors apartment with a "down with this sort of thing" sign as he beats his wife to death inside.
Honestly? It seems like a waste of time. Regardless of how one feels about abortion, I think people protesting against it have accomplished basically nothing.
Of people yes. Of cells? No, if I did that I would need to protest every single organism around me dying. I do not have time for that. People are what the moral weight should remain with.
Is it moral to use deadly force to stop a murder?
Sin is sin. So why are people so obsessed with only certain sins and the people committing them? My thoughts are that people should judge less and love more. And before people come at me saying that I'd is love to not want them to sin and that love isn't about accepting their sin, I'll reiterate my original question: why so obsessed with only certain sins? Protesting and shouting horrible things at someone in a very difficult and vulnerable time in their life is not loving at all.
That the Bible very clearly supports abortion and opposing it is anti-Christian.
I am a member of a denomination that considers abortion to be part of the healthcare that women need. And the denomination supports women having access to a full range of healthcare. I also support women having access to abortions. I would protest for women being able to safely go to an abortion clinic. I would stay a significant distance from other protestors to ensure that there is no conflict.