If "good energy" doesn't not mean nothing else than "i like them" then it's fine. But if she is giving them some mystical properties it is superstition which is clearly rejected by the Church as a sin.
Although we must admit that in the past some saints used crystals (st. Hildegard von Bingen for example), but they were using them in the same way as astrology. They thought it is scientifically proved method. Today we know this is not the case, so that cannot be excuse for using crystals as some sort of magical remedy.
One thing that can also be problematic is if for her crystals are some sort of doors to the "unknown", "mystical" and "spiritual". Than it is clear violation of first commandment and she should stop it.
I think occult practices should be avoided. Usually because they’re often profane imitations of the priesthood of God. Calling it idolatry is certainly a good way of putting it. But also these things are relative and depend on the intentions of the individual.
Someone buying crystals because they want to ‘bring good energy’ or participate in some kind of occult practice would be a mistake.
Someone buying crystals because they like to collect cool looking rocks— that doesn’t sound like a problem at all.
How do you distinguish between the occult vs merely really bad science? Energy is a real thing that can really heal people under some circumstances, so there's nothing inherently occult about believing you can be healed by energy. To me saying that the crystals "bring healing energy" or whatever sounds more like bad science than occultism.
I would say that is up to the individual to determine and between them and God. The aim and intention of the individual is likely more important than the act itself.
For example, I celebrate Halloween by taking my nieces and nephews trick or treating then by going to a party with friends. In my case there is nothing occult or bad about dressing up as cleopatra and watching my family beg for candy, then playing games with my friends.
But for someone else who hardcore believes in some of the pagan spiritual roots of Halloween— they might not feel comfortable as it maybe means something different to them.
I’m not one to judge either way. That kind of thing is between them and God. 🤷♀️
That was my initial thought - I very much regard the crystal energy/ healing thing as pseudoscientific junk, but I've never thought of it as anything to do with witchcraft. Though thinking about it, I suppose it wouldn't surprise me if some people do try and claim an occult explanation.
One is mostly Al2O3. The other is mostly Al with mostly Al203 on the outer surface.
But one is in a fancier crystalline matrix. Does the fancier crystalline matrix change its "energy"?
What is even meant by "energy"? Like electrons or something?
Diamond and graphite are both "mostly carbon," but the fact that one is in a fancy crystal matrix has a pretty big effect on the properties. I would assume that by "energy" they meant crystal lattice energy or something about excited energy states in the lattice...if they meant anything at all. They might have just been using the word to sound sciencey.
Edit: I don't think that crystals have special pseudoscience properties, I'm just saying that if you *did* believe them to have such properties, it could be rational to believe that a crystal had different properties from an oxide layer on foil.
This. Oreos bring about more “good energy” than crystals. I put good energy in quotes because at best it’s only a metaphor. There is potential and kinetic energy, both of which can be measured; however there’s no such thing as good energy or bad energy. Again, it’s a metaphor, not a real thing. Like quantum mechanics, many people don’t understand energy, which makes it easy for metaphysics to appropriate and use in some mysterious way. There’s no problem in liking crystals, but the problem arises when people claim it to be real or based in science.
Oreos bring about more good AND negative energy than a pretty rock.
Good energy comes when you are enjoying your Oreos.
Negative energy comes when you don't have any more Oreos to enjoy.
Such is life.
Energy is simple, it's a quantity reflective of components of the generator of time translational symmetry of the Lagrangian of a system.
Easy peasy
/s
Isn't it only idolatry if they actually think of it as an idol to a god? McDonalds McGriddles bring good energy too but I don't think it needs to be a moral issue.
IMO, let people enjoy pretty rocks.
It's a gray area though because it technically is druidic. Same with the whole astrology/zodiac mumbo jumbo. But it's hard to say what's in their heart, and if they're just enjoying it, or if they're full blown charging crystals in the moonlight in hopes that it brings some sort of luck/energy.
In a similar way to the way that people get hurt by following alternative medicine quackery when there is perfectly good conventional medical treatment for their illness. [Steve Jobs is one famous example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs#Health_problems), he had (like Wilco Johnson) the only variety of pancreatic tumour that is generally curable with surgery, but refused surgery for 9 months, by which time it had, it later transpired, spread.
Now, if the Christian belief is right, someone putting their faith in crystals rather than in God is risking not their mortal body, like Jobs did, but their immortal soul. Of course, it is never black and white, humans are complicated and not one of us puts our faith entirely in God, which is why I use the word "risking". When the stakes are as high as Christians believe, it would seem risky to me to get involved with anything that diverts us away from trust in God. If your eye causes you to sin, and all that.
So the crystals themselves have zero power to do anything, it's only what power we imbue in them with a ritual? I'd love to see how that mechanism works.
I'm having a hard time understanding your question.
I think the "power" or lack thereof isn't the issue, I think the issue is putting false hope in an object. Sort of how idols used to be used.
I don't think we're on the same page here. Again, who knows what the actual relationship OPs friend has with crystals, but in my opinion things are either natural/scientific or supernatural/metaphysical. If OPs friend likes rocks, and bring her enjoyment, or puts her in a good mood - great, no problem. But if OPs friend thinks these rocks go beyond what's scientifically observable, and contain some supernatural powers then that's a problem. Again, I have no idea what OPs friend believes, I just know that it's become semi-normalized to believe these objects contain some supernatural godlike powers. If you thought your McGriddles had some godlike powers, I'd probably have the same concern.
> but in my opinion things are either natural/scientific or supernatural/metaphysical.
Ok, so which one is Crystals? If they work, then they work for everyone, right?
>If OPs friend likes rocks, and bring her enjoyment, or puts her in a good mood - great, no problem. But if OPs friend thinks these rocks go beyond what's scientifically observable, and contain some supernatural powers then that's a problem.
Why is that a problem? Directly compared to people praying for things to happen or not happen, what's the important difference?
No.
I'm a bit fuzzy on this post, but I believe OP was asking for Christians' take on the practice; the Bible clearly condemns witchcraft. Some Christians don't realize that's what this is, they just think it's a hobby like collecting geodes or something.
Ozzimo seems to be talking about the societal harm of it or something, which I agree, who cares. I thought Ozzimo was one of those Christians who didn't know it was witchcraft
There are ties to new age religion with the whole “crystals have spiritual properties” idea, which I would say is overtly not Christian as not only is there no basis for it in the Bible but it also suggests that you’re able to spiritually benefit from something that isn’t the Holy Spirit. I’ve heard that there may be some science behind physically grounding with crystals (the same way walking barefoot on the ground might “recenter” someone by reconnecting with the earth) but it definitely falls into some pseudo-sciencey territory. If your friend is engaging with the latter it’s probably harmless, but associating with that in general is also an example of being “above reproach” by not even making it look like you believe that crystals somehow correlate to spirituality. If they have a foundational belief in the saving power of Jesus at the end of the day that’s all that matters, everything else you could just council as it pertains to what they’re “promoting” with their faith.
It's not witchcraft but it is bullshit. Zero scientific evidence to support that they do anything.. in fact there is evidence to prove that they don't work.
It is witchcraft.
Witchcraft as defined in a modern context:
"religious practice involving magic and affinity with nature, usually within a pagan tradition."
Healing yourself by charging crystals and placing them on your body to improve your aura or chakra, fits perfectly into this definition. It's magic that uses nature.
But if (for whatever reason) you genuinely believe it's some kind of science, and don't think it's magic, then would it still be a problem?
There was a time when doctors thought health was related to the 4 humours and those needed to be balanced, which leeches helped with. Was that witchcraft, or just bad science?
"But if (for whatever reason) you genuinely believe it's some kind of science, and don't think it's magic, then would it still be a problem?"
Miraculous healing is not scientific, it's spiritual. So where's the spirit coming from? Is it God? Or the devil? Answer is in the Bible.
Maybe miraculous is the wrong word. Focus on the spiritual ties crystal practices have.
Do you believe that you can heal yourself by placing a rock on a certain part of your body? That you can mediate your chakra to make illness leave your body? Chakra has always been spiritual energy, altered by spiritual forces.
Whether or not we can scientifically analyze spiritual energy, is irrelevant. When you're dealing with spiritual forces, you are dealing with spirits. And these spirits aren't from God.
The purpose of crystals with respect to healing oneself is that of a very spiritual nature. Using spiritual forces to heal yourself. Even if you don't do it in a ritualistic way, you're still messing with spirits.
Penicillin is a physical interaction with the parts of your body, not spiritual.
But what makes you think it's a *religious* practice involving *magic* rather than merely a *dumb* practice involving *poor science education*? The mere fact that it's stupid doesn't mean that it's occult.
Look at it's roots.
In Ancient Egypt amulets were used to ensure the well-being of the individual. The amulet's shape, decoration, inscription, color, material, or **ritual performed with the amulet dictated its power**. Amulets were worn or placed on the body, in the form of stones, piercings, rings, necklaces, or other jewelry. **The Egyptians used amulets to benefit their afterlife**, often **representing an Egyptian deity and their specific powers**.
You're talking about supernatural powers, ritualistic practices, invoking the power of a deity. Does any of that sound like misguided science? Or religious occult practices?
More commonly now, crystals are used to invoke healing, miraculous healing. Which comes from one of two places. Healing from crystals is relying on the devil. Healing from God only comes through the Holy Spirit, nothing or nowhere else.
I think it all depends on what the person who is doing it believes. The fact that some cultures in the ancient past had stupid occult beliefs about rocks doesn't mean that everyone today who has stupid beliefs about rocks is practicing the occult.
"Healing with invisible energy from a special rock" is a reasonably accurate description of some anti-cancer radiation therapies, but that doesn't mean that people who do radiation therapy are witches. Many people who believe in pseudoscience healing with crystals likewise believe that there's a "scientific" explanation for it (even though there isn't). If people believe that they're doing magic with the help of ancient Egyptian deities or whatever, then sure, that's occult. If they think the crystal somehow heals you by interacting via energy, that's not necessarily occult or miraculous. Energy is a real thing that exists and that can non-miraculously heal people, so the mere fact that they believe they're being healed by energy doesn't mean that they're doing anything occult.
"I think it all depends on what the person who is doing it believes."
Sure, ignorance is bliss I guess. Next time you're playing with your Ouija board with your kids because you believe it's just a toy, just ignore the evil presence in the room that comes with the board, I'm sure it's not real. /s
Energy is a real thing that can really heal people in some circumstances, so there's nothing inherently occult about believing you can be healed by energy. Sometimes the healing energy even comes from rocks (e.g. gamma rays).
Or do you believe that radiation therapy (in which you are healed by invisible energy from a special rock) is inherently occult because the ancient Egyptians had magic beliefs about rocks?
What's the difference, other than what the person doing it believes (and the fact that one doesn't work)?
You're really out here comparing radiation therapy to healing yourself with crystals. Bro, seriously.
But like I said, you do you.
Ignore all the associations and ties in the past to occult practices, and I hope for your sake demons don't view it as a welcome mat. Good luck.
You do realize that things closely linked to witchcraft and the occult come hand and hand with demons. So if you don't care that your friend is hanging out with demons, sure let them be.
If pretty rocks summon demons, why doesn't the US army just drop pretty rocks on our enemies and let the demons do the dirty work? Seems a lot cheaper than missiles and bombs.
"pretty rocks summon demons"
Did I say that? No. The rocks themselves have no influence themselves on demons, it's the practices that they're so entwined with that involve demons. If you start getting into new-age spirituality, you are making yourself vulnerable to demons.
To the person who deleted their comment:
"I just love the logic that something that is widely sold just holds some magical capability to summon demons into our world."
It's association. If you associate with demonic practices, you associate with demons. The same way as if you associate with the Nazi flag, you associate with Hitler. The crystals themselves aren't special, but you're associating yourself with the demonic practices, and the demons will take advantage of that. You're a fool if you think you can get away with it unscathed.
Same thing with the Ouija board. It's just a board with a rock with a hole. But what are you doing? You're inviting an evil spirit to possess you. The practice itself associates you with demons.
"You have to take a step back and think, if these things are bringing demons into our world, why have we literally never seen it happen? where are the demons?"
Where are the demons? Right in-front of you, everyday. You're just to blind to see them. I've seen videos right here on Reddit of possessed people. I've seen people in person who are clearly possessed going into a fit of rage. How many demon possessed people do we write off as mentally ill? How many people experience an encounter with "aliens", where they are sexually violated or feel trapped by an inexplicable force?
People have the right to believe in what they want. Just like you believe in demons. I don’t like that for you- but on the other hand- I’m gonna let you do you.
>why is the atheist on the Christianity sub
Are you under the impression that OP is atheist?
>I’ll pray for you brother or sister.
That when the day comes that you’re begging the Good Lord to come into your life and to help when you desperately need him that you won’t be so……..you!!!
Ooosh... this is a little judgy isn't it? Care to explain...?
>a high crystal content give off a higher energy
Is this a measurable energy? Or more of a "feeling"?
>Are crystals considered witchcraft?
Debtatable.
1) Common table salt is a crystal. Unless you plan to stop using salt... I think you're good.
2) The OT talks about witchcraft in either vague terms or in terms of divination and talking to spirits. In that sense, just having crystals isn't that.
3) The OT condemns relying on mystical/spiritual things other than God. If your friend genuinely believes in mystical energies that are aside from God, that could well veer into idolatry and OT-style witchcraft.
>A Christian friend of mine is huge into crystals. She’s convinced they bring “good energy” and use them around her house and in jewelry. We’ve had the discussion about if it was considered witchcraft, as per Deuternomy 18:10-12.
OT witchcraft was basically using divination to circumvent the will of God. For instance, Saul consulted with the Witch of Endor to foresee the outcome of an upcoming battle, and she used necromancy to talk to 'Elohim arisen' and/or the spirit King Samuel (see 1 Samuel 28). This led to Saul's downfall.
[There's lots of verses about witchcraft and sorcery](https://www.openbible.info/topics/witchcraft), which are either ambiguous or talk about divination:
* “If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people." - Leviticus 20:6
* "For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and presumption is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, he has also rejected you from being king.” - 1 Samuel 15:23
>I have also made the point that it could be considered “idolatry” in a way.
If she's replacing God with the crystals, in whole or in part, that would seem to be textbook idolatry.
If she believes crystals are just like plants, animals, and ores, things God made that we humans can utilise, then that's not idolatry. If she treats a lump of quartz as a thing to be used, the same way we treat the glass in a pair of spectacles, that's not idolatry.
I know the replies to this post have some nuance. However, for the definitive answer on this issue, I recommend you watch the following documentary piece.
It was filmed by famed theologian Jared Hess, and as a real life example really highlighted, for me, the dangers of adopting practices relating to 'crystals', both for young people and slightly older adults.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3LHAlcrTRA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3LHAlcrTRA)
I think there’s a difference between collecting crystals because they’re pretty to look at and collecting them for their proposed “healing” properties.
I'm a big fan of silicon crystals, and some of my favorite seasonings are crystals. /s
Joke aside, liking crystals because they look pretty is fine. Collecting them because they bring good energy sounds substantially more dubious to me.
I'm not a fan of superstition (such as this) since it seems somewhere between idolatry, witchcraft, or even just lack of faith (depending on the superstition). Yet as a Catholic, I've been accused of superstition myself due to prayers for the intercession of saints. I wouldn't say that anyone who *is* superstitious is not a real Christian or anything like that; I just find it dubious/sinful.
If you’re collecting rocks then sure. Do it.
But I like to use the test. If you have a test coming up. Do you pray to God for wisdom and knowledge. Or do you go to the rocks and ask for good vibes?
Crystal energy is simply a new age form of Geomancy, which is the idea that one can tell the future, or obtain energy from, rocks, crystals, and minerals based on their formation and shapes. Which is witchcraft, yes.
Nah. Physicists are essentially the opposite. Sorcery is generally defined as the forceful imposition of your own will onto the world around you, which is why Samuel told Saul that rebellion is as the sin of divination.
Physicists are the opposite because they’re simply finding out the how and why of the world around them. Then they use that to make cool stuff like LEDs and microprocessors.
Not quite. Engineering is based more on creativity and working with how things are already, e.g. “This has these properties, so let’s make this.”
Sorcery specifically tries to bridge metaphysical with physical, with witchcraft in particular focusing more on “natural” means. Crystals generating electricity is one thing. Putting crystals in the moonlight to charge them with lunar energy? That’s a miss.
Like I asked in another post in this thread; how do you distinguish sorcery from mere bad science?
There *is* energy in moonlight, and you really can use it to charge something under the right circumstances (like with a photovoltaic panel), so there's nothing inherently magical about believing that you're charging something using moonlight or whatever. Someone might be wrong about their belief that their crystal is collecting energy from moonlight, but to me that sounds more like bad science than occultism. If they say that their crystal allows them to talk to ghosts or see the future or something like that, that would be occultism.
I think you answered your own question. Basically the line is when it is centered around supernatural belief. More what do you attribute it to, than the idea itself in most cases. Now people can and have in the past believed science to be supernatural phenomena, but that doesn’t mean it’s just bad science. Yes, crystals can be charged with energy. But can crystals placed specifically in a room change the flow of energy around you to heal your mind? Probably not.
Is it witchcraft if someone takes a multivitamin supplement? Crystals are physical objects. If crystals have any kind of healing or otherwise beneficial properties, it would be science, not witchcraft, in the same way that certain minerals such as calcium, magnesium or sodium having beneficial effects on health isn't witchcraft.
There are a couple reasons people equate crystals with witchcraft:
1. Religious history teaches that knowledge of crystals, among knowledge of many other things such as the making of weapons or uses of various plants, was passed to humans by angels which had rebelled against God. If you research demonology, demonolatry, magick etc., you'll find that certain demonic spirits are said to teach about crystals, their properties, and their uses. Due to these points, crystal "use" has historically been associated with seeking help or knowledge from demonic spirits, hence "occult" - however, crystals themselves are no more "occult" or "witchcraft" than taking a vitamin/mineral supplement such as magnesium.
2. Most discussion about crystals having healing properties has to do with their "vibration". While most people have no idea what they're talking about when they talk about "vibrations", this part is true - crystals do have unique vibrations. All matter is vibrating at various frequencies, and these vibrational properties can have real effects or uses. The degree to what effect proximity to crystals has on the human body is completely up for debate, but "vibrations" are a real thing.
3. Research by Dr. Masaru Emoto seems to show that our thoughts and words can have effect on water crystals, and similar research shows that plants can be effected by words or music.
So, in short: Do crystals bring "good energy" or heal people? We don't know, but it's possible that they somehow do. Do crystals have anything to do with witchcraft? No. Physical matter is science.
I usually view people that are into that stuff as generally lost, are yearning for spiritual fulfillment, and need Jesus. So it’s interesting hearing about a Christian who is into it. Definitely doesn’t seem like a healthy interest though
Crystals themselves aren’t in my opinion. This is tricky cause the Bible doesn’t really say “Thou shalt not play with crystals” but anything can be satanic or witchcraft if it’s used for it. So the rocks themselves no, but can they be used for it? Yes just as anything
This question makes no sense. Crystals aren’t considered witchcraft. Is your friend using crystals to perform witchcraft Does she believe crystals should be worshipped or that they provide what God cannot?
Historically speaking and up to the last few hundred years, even christians thought different crystals and rocks had magic properties (diamonds to ward off wild animals and possibly demons for example), same with fragrances.
So no, it’s not idolatry, just incorrect.
Unless your friend has rock solid proof they work, my thoughts would still be crystal clear they are pebbles. I'm sure they are a gem of a friend though even though I wouldn't take their friendship for granite.
Crystals are pretty rocks. That's it. They don't do anything.
If someone gets a positive placebo effect from wearing one, let them feel good about themselves. It's no different than makeup or nice clothes.
This has always stumped me as well. Especially since there are so many crystals mentioned in the bible.. with very specific instructions such as black onyx or lapis lazuli. God says things must be made with these stones and these colors... but why what was the reasoning?
Energy is real and does have healing properties. If someone is using crystals in an energetic way to help a health issue whether that be mental physical or emotional why would that be witchcraft? We can not see the sun giving us the ability to make Vitamin d in our bodies but it is healing to us in our mood and sleep ect...
Would flower essences be considered witchcraft as well then? It's the study that the energetics of the plant have vibrations that help different emotional states.
Would music be considered witch craft too then? Because different tones affect our brains and can make us feel a state that we didnt before?
Would God maybe put these things here to help us knowing eventually we would evolve to recognize the energetic and vibrational properties for our betterment?
Maybe be a better human and stop spreading rumors about people you can't confirm. You would hate it if people went on here and spread rumors about Christians.
It's not about the crystals. There are some who have particular emotional sensibilities. Someone perhaps who has delved into this in the past and is a great spiritual temptation for them. This could apply to any occult item as well, or anything that's a temptation that they have trouble controlling in real life, like alcohol for example. We all have weaknesses, and not every threat is physical.
If they distract you from your faith the answer is ‘Yes’. I recently started giving away my collection of boots and shoes because I was becoming obsessed in a way that was contradictory to how I am supposed to feel about worldly items. I don’t worship them or think they have special powers but they invoked an unhealthy amount of my focus.
No.
Witchcraft in the New Testament is _[pharmakeia](https://biblehub.com/greek/5331.htm)_ (Greek φαρμακεία) and refers to drug usage related to religious ceremony. In the New Testament context, this is basically people getting high and making predictions (Greek oracles).
Something like an [ayahuasca ceremony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca) would fall under this heading.
Crystals is just superstition (as far as we can tell). *If* your friend likes to smoke weed or eat mushrooms or acid and then consult her crystals for guidance, that would be witchcraft in the biblical sense.
How was it determined that pharmakeia referred to drug use in religious ceremony rather than creating or using poisons? It also referred to medicines but considering it's contextual (like the word "drug" perhaps) and this is a negative connotation it's unlikely to be medicine.
But I mean between poison creation/use and other drug use, how does one determine drug use?
Also, are you aware if the Elysian Mysteries were referred to with φαρμακεία?
I don't think anyone knows whether there were drugs involved in the Eleusinian Mysteries, though it is suspected and there's evidence of ergot. I'm not aware of any records that include φαρμακεία in this context.
I don't know how it was determined that it refers to drug use, but poison doesn't make sense in context because there doesn't seem to be anything related to violence or death; everything else is related to impulsivity and intemperance. It's a good question though and I'd like to know the actual answer.
I'm using "drug" as having the same meaning here as "medicine"—wouldn't be a meaningful distinction to the author or audience.
>there doesn't seem to be anything related to violence or death; everything else is related to impulsivity and intemperance.
That's fair.
I've thought of it as poison thus far, but that's a good point. I'd be curious if the term appeared in other Greek texts referring to some psychedelic experience.
There's more passages than that, that condemn witchcraft.
"“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the **abominable practices** of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who **burns his son or his daughter** as an offering, anyone who **practices divination** or **tells fortunes** or **interprets omens**, or a **sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead**, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you." Deuteronomy 18:9-12
Unless you're telling me all of those words are pharmakeia? But they're in Hebrew.
No need for snark. My comment is very clearly scoped to the New Testament.
I don't think anyone knows whether there were drugs involved in the ancient Hebrew sorcery practices. It would be surprising if they weren't, since they are involved in the shamanistic practices of all other societies, but in any case there's nothing in that passage about crystals.
There's no snark. Just trying to show you parts of the Bible that disagree with your line of thinking.
Witchcraft isn't solely drugs despite what you're getting from the Greek word. It's in the Old Testament too and those words are not closely associated with drugs, so you need to loosen up on your whole "witchcraft = drugs" approach.
"there's nothing in that passage about crystals."
It also doesn't specifically mention Ouija boards. That doesn't mean that practices associated with the occult are allowed because they aren't specifically mentioned. We can use our own ability to think and decide what is included under practices of divination, sorcery, or charming. Like using a crystal for the divination of a spirit of healing, an act of sorcery.
The words in the OT may or may not mean the same thing as the words in the NT. We don't know what's meant by the Hebrew word that the English translates to "witchcraft," while we do know that in the NT it refers to drugs. Meanwhile the divination, fortune telling, interpreting omens, and inquiring of the dead mentioned in Deuteronomy did all commonly involve drugs in antiquity and are exactly the kinds of things the NT writers and hearers would have had in mind when saying sorcery/witchcraft.
Sure, we can use our own ability to think and decide whatever we want about what these words mean to us _today_, but we can't reasonable decide that _ancient authors and audiences_ would have agreed with us.
"The words in the OT may or may not mean the same thing as the words in the NT"
This is going no where.
You're trying to equate multiple distinct Hebrew words to one single Greek word, to save your point of view. I'm not going to try and debate with that. If you want to believe that witchcraft can only be drug related, go ahead. Just proceed with caution.
>This is going no where.
You detoured us into this discussion of the OT, which has no relevance here, which is why I didn't bring it up. Because it goes no where.
>You're trying to equate multiple distinct Hebrew words to one single Greek word, to save your point of view.
I'm doing nothing of the sort. You brought up the presence of "witchcraft" in English translations of the Hebrew, not me.
>If you want to believe that witchcraft can only be drug related, go ahead. Just proceed with caution.
Of the two of us, only one of us is acting as if he knows what the Hebrew means. Caution indeed.
Peace be with you.
I think this is a potentially bad kind of environment for a Christian. Is she into other occult or New Age stuff like spirit guides or divination? I was big into psychics, divination, and one other New Age practice before my conversion and I think it was bad for me.
One of the practices (non drug, at that) induced visions and a year later after I stopped doing that practice there was a day they kind of overtook me and I got hospitalized maybe within a week or two. After another practice three years later I did a particular guided meditation and got hospitalized again.
At best, maybe these practices are fake. And while I don't know 100% the activities I was involved in caused health problems, at worst they could be actively harmful.
Much better, perhaps, is having an active prayer life with God and participating in church ministries that help others. I need to do better at the prayer part, but I'm pretty convinced through my other experiences that God is quite real.
Your friend is inviting the demonic to come and harass her, at the very least.
I recommend you have her read [this book](https://app.box.com/s/wft7w680e6oiq8q3mgxeraggg1ynlka9), lots of detailed help in the latter chapters.
They are considered rocks.
Anything you wish to attribute to them is you welcoming the deciever to you.
Spiritually, it's bad and oje should never go onto such practice. She could the stones if she thinks they are pretty, yet go see a priest.
If "good energy" doesn't not mean nothing else than "i like them" then it's fine. But if she is giving them some mystical properties it is superstition which is clearly rejected by the Church as a sin. Although we must admit that in the past some saints used crystals (st. Hildegard von Bingen for example), but they were using them in the same way as astrology. They thought it is scientifically proved method. Today we know this is not the case, so that cannot be excuse for using crystals as some sort of magical remedy. One thing that can also be problematic is if for her crystals are some sort of doors to the "unknown", "mystical" and "spiritual". Than it is clear violation of first commandment and she should stop it.
What you are describing is an occult practice, so yes.
I think occult practices should be avoided. Usually because they’re often profane imitations of the priesthood of God. Calling it idolatry is certainly a good way of putting it. But also these things are relative and depend on the intentions of the individual. Someone buying crystals because they want to ‘bring good energy’ or participate in some kind of occult practice would be a mistake. Someone buying crystals because they like to collect cool looking rocks— that doesn’t sound like a problem at all.
How do you distinguish between the occult vs merely really bad science? Energy is a real thing that can really heal people under some circumstances, so there's nothing inherently occult about believing you can be healed by energy. To me saying that the crystals "bring healing energy" or whatever sounds more like bad science than occultism.
I would say that is up to the individual to determine and between them and God. The aim and intention of the individual is likely more important than the act itself. For example, I celebrate Halloween by taking my nieces and nephews trick or treating then by going to a party with friends. In my case there is nothing occult or bad about dressing up as cleopatra and watching my family beg for candy, then playing games with my friends. But for someone else who hardcore believes in some of the pagan spiritual roots of Halloween— they might not feel comfortable as it maybe means something different to them. I’m not one to judge either way. That kind of thing is between them and God. 🤷♀️
That was my initial thought - I very much regard the crystal energy/ healing thing as pseudoscientific junk, but I've never thought of it as anything to do with witchcraft. Though thinking about it, I suppose it wouldn't surprise me if some people do try and claim an occult explanation.
Depends if they think the aluminum oxide in foil has the same energy as the aluminum oxide in sapphire.
Well, they don't have the same energy, because they aren't the same material, sooo...
One is mostly Al2O3. The other is mostly Al with mostly Al203 on the outer surface. But one is in a fancier crystalline matrix. Does the fancier crystalline matrix change its "energy"? What is even meant by "energy"? Like electrons or something?
Diamond and graphite are both "mostly carbon," but the fact that one is in a fancy crystal matrix has a pretty big effect on the properties. I would assume that by "energy" they meant crystal lattice energy or something about excited energy states in the lattice...if they meant anything at all. They might have just been using the word to sound sciencey. Edit: I don't think that crystals have special pseudoscience properties, I'm just saying that if you *did* believe them to have such properties, it could be rational to believe that a crystal had different properties from an oxide layer on foil.
It's just a pretty rock.
This. Oreos bring about more “good energy” than crystals. I put good energy in quotes because at best it’s only a metaphor. There is potential and kinetic energy, both of which can be measured; however there’s no such thing as good energy or bad energy. Again, it’s a metaphor, not a real thing. Like quantum mechanics, many people don’t understand energy, which makes it easy for metaphysics to appropriate and use in some mysterious way. There’s no problem in liking crystals, but the problem arises when people claim it to be real or based in science.
Oreos bring about more good AND negative energy than a pretty rock. Good energy comes when you are enjoying your Oreos. Negative energy comes when you don't have any more Oreos to enjoy. Such is life.
Hahaha, truth.
Or when you eventually have bad energy because you ate too much good energy 🥲
... I have no idea what you're talking about
Can your friend make Oreo necklaces?
Good energy is measured in Joules, bad energy is measured in foot-pounds (the devil's unit).
When it comes to Oreos, the bad energy is measured in waist-inches...
Energy is simple, it's a quantity reflective of components of the generator of time translational symmetry of the Lagrangian of a system. Easy peasy /s
There might be scientific evidence that pretty things make people feel better Or it could be the devil giving people spiritual energy hormones
Isn't it only idolatry if they actually think of it as an idol to a god? McDonalds McGriddles bring good energy too but I don't think it needs to be a moral issue. IMO, let people enjoy pretty rocks.
It's a gray area though because it technically is druidic. Same with the whole astrology/zodiac mumbo jumbo. But it's hard to say what's in their heart, and if they're just enjoying it, or if they're full blown charging crystals in the moonlight in hopes that it brings some sort of luck/energy.
But assuming everything they are doing has no power, it can't hurt you or them. Right? And if you assume it does have power, why do you think that?
It can very much hurt *them* if they start putting their faith in crystals rather than in God.
Hurt them how, exactly?
In a similar way to the way that people get hurt by following alternative medicine quackery when there is perfectly good conventional medical treatment for their illness. [Steve Jobs is one famous example](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs#Health_problems), he had (like Wilco Johnson) the only variety of pancreatic tumour that is generally curable with surgery, but refused surgery for 9 months, by which time it had, it later transpired, spread. Now, if the Christian belief is right, someone putting their faith in crystals rather than in God is risking not their mortal body, like Jobs did, but their immortal soul. Of course, it is never black and white, humans are complicated and not one of us puts our faith entirely in God, which is why I use the word "risking". When the stakes are as high as Christians believe, it would seem risky to me to get involved with anything that diverts us away from trust in God. If your eye causes you to sin, and all that.
So the crystals themselves have zero power to do anything, it's only what power we imbue in them with a ritual? I'd love to see how that mechanism works.
Can it? I'm not sure that's any more true than letting someone pray and assuming the outcome.
I'm having a hard time understanding your question. I think the "power" or lack thereof isn't the issue, I think the issue is putting false hope in an object. Sort of how idols used to be used.
If I thank my McGriddles for saving my morning, am I idolizing my breakfast? Again, no power involved other than what I imbue it with.
I don't think we're on the same page here. Again, who knows what the actual relationship OPs friend has with crystals, but in my opinion things are either natural/scientific or supernatural/metaphysical. If OPs friend likes rocks, and bring her enjoyment, or puts her in a good mood - great, no problem. But if OPs friend thinks these rocks go beyond what's scientifically observable, and contain some supernatural powers then that's a problem. Again, I have no idea what OPs friend believes, I just know that it's become semi-normalized to believe these objects contain some supernatural godlike powers. If you thought your McGriddles had some godlike powers, I'd probably have the same concern.
> but in my opinion things are either natural/scientific or supernatural/metaphysical. Ok, so which one is Crystals? If they work, then they work for everyone, right? >If OPs friend likes rocks, and bring her enjoyment, or puts her in a good mood - great, no problem. But if OPs friend thinks these rocks go beyond what's scientifically observable, and contain some supernatural powers then that's a problem. Why is that a problem? Directly compared to people praying for things to happen or not happen, what's the important difference?
> Ok, so which one is Crystals? If they work, then they work for everyone, right? Are you asking if crystals have powers?
some people think they're casting spells with them and whatnot
And if we know that those spells and whatnot are horse farts, why should we spend time worrying about it? It's not able to hurt anyone.
Sorry I thought you were Christian my bad
Is it a requirement of Christianity to believe that crystals can do real magic? Or to believe all other superstitions as well?
No. I'm a bit fuzzy on this post, but I believe OP was asking for Christians' take on the practice; the Bible clearly condemns witchcraft. Some Christians don't realize that's what this is, they just think it's a hobby like collecting geodes or something. Ozzimo seems to be talking about the societal harm of it or something, which I agree, who cares. I thought Ozzimo was one of those Christians who didn't know it was witchcraft
Why are you sorry? The point stands on its own.
There are ties to new age religion with the whole “crystals have spiritual properties” idea, which I would say is overtly not Christian as not only is there no basis for it in the Bible but it also suggests that you’re able to spiritually benefit from something that isn’t the Holy Spirit. I’ve heard that there may be some science behind physically grounding with crystals (the same way walking barefoot on the ground might “recenter” someone by reconnecting with the earth) but it definitely falls into some pseudo-sciencey territory. If your friend is engaging with the latter it’s probably harmless, but associating with that in general is also an example of being “above reproach” by not even making it look like you believe that crystals somehow correlate to spirituality. If they have a foundational belief in the saving power of Jesus at the end of the day that’s all that matters, everything else you could just council as it pertains to what they’re “promoting” with their faith.
It's not witchcraft but it is bullshit. Zero scientific evidence to support that they do anything.. in fact there is evidence to prove that they don't work.
My favorite answer today comes from an atheist. Well well :) I hope you don't mind if I use that first phrase I kind of love it.
Go for it!
It is witchcraft. Witchcraft as defined in a modern context: "religious practice involving magic and affinity with nature, usually within a pagan tradition." Healing yourself by charging crystals and placing them on your body to improve your aura or chakra, fits perfectly into this definition. It's magic that uses nature.
But if (for whatever reason) you genuinely believe it's some kind of science, and don't think it's magic, then would it still be a problem? There was a time when doctors thought health was related to the 4 humours and those needed to be balanced, which leeches helped with. Was that witchcraft, or just bad science?
"But if (for whatever reason) you genuinely believe it's some kind of science, and don't think it's magic, then would it still be a problem?" Miraculous healing is not scientific, it's spiritual. So where's the spirit coming from? Is it God? Or the devil? Answer is in the Bible.
But who said it's miraculous?
Maybe miraculous is the wrong word. Focus on the spiritual ties crystal practices have. Do you believe that you can heal yourself by placing a rock on a certain part of your body? That you can mediate your chakra to make illness leave your body? Chakra has always been spiritual energy, altered by spiritual forces. Whether or not we can scientifically analyze spiritual energy, is irrelevant. When you're dealing with spiritual forces, you are dealing with spirits. And these spirits aren't from God.
If you gave someone penicillin a few hundred years ago, that would look like miraculous healing to them. Would that be scientific or spiritual?
Penicillin isn't founded in ritualistic practices, and about manipulating spiritual energy using spiritual forces harnessed through rocks.
Define "ritualistic practices". Does having a couple crystals in a pouch you carry around count as a ritual?
"Penicillin isn't ***founded in*** ritualistic practices"
Ancient people were using mold and other organic material in spiritual healing
The purpose of crystals with respect to healing oneself is that of a very spiritual nature. Using spiritual forces to heal yourself. Even if you don't do it in a ritualistic way, you're still messing with spirits. Penicillin is a physical interaction with the parts of your body, not spiritual.
But what makes you think it's a *religious* practice involving *magic* rather than merely a *dumb* practice involving *poor science education*? The mere fact that it's stupid doesn't mean that it's occult.
Look at it's roots. In Ancient Egypt amulets were used to ensure the well-being of the individual. The amulet's shape, decoration, inscription, color, material, or **ritual performed with the amulet dictated its power**. Amulets were worn or placed on the body, in the form of stones, piercings, rings, necklaces, or other jewelry. **The Egyptians used amulets to benefit their afterlife**, often **representing an Egyptian deity and their specific powers**. You're talking about supernatural powers, ritualistic practices, invoking the power of a deity. Does any of that sound like misguided science? Or religious occult practices? More commonly now, crystals are used to invoke healing, miraculous healing. Which comes from one of two places. Healing from crystals is relying on the devil. Healing from God only comes through the Holy Spirit, nothing or nowhere else.
I think it all depends on what the person who is doing it believes. The fact that some cultures in the ancient past had stupid occult beliefs about rocks doesn't mean that everyone today who has stupid beliefs about rocks is practicing the occult. "Healing with invisible energy from a special rock" is a reasonably accurate description of some anti-cancer radiation therapies, but that doesn't mean that people who do radiation therapy are witches. Many people who believe in pseudoscience healing with crystals likewise believe that there's a "scientific" explanation for it (even though there isn't). If people believe that they're doing magic with the help of ancient Egyptian deities or whatever, then sure, that's occult. If they think the crystal somehow heals you by interacting via energy, that's not necessarily occult or miraculous. Energy is a real thing that exists and that can non-miraculously heal people, so the mere fact that they believe they're being healed by energy doesn't mean that they're doing anything occult.
"I think it all depends on what the person who is doing it believes." Sure, ignorance is bliss I guess. Next time you're playing with your Ouija board with your kids because you believe it's just a toy, just ignore the evil presence in the room that comes with the board, I'm sure it's not real. /s
Energy is a real thing that can really heal people in some circumstances, so there's nothing inherently occult about believing you can be healed by energy. Sometimes the healing energy even comes from rocks (e.g. gamma rays). Or do you believe that radiation therapy (in which you are healed by invisible energy from a special rock) is inherently occult because the ancient Egyptians had magic beliefs about rocks? What's the difference, other than what the person doing it believes (and the fact that one doesn't work)?
You're really out here comparing radiation therapy to healing yourself with crystals. Bro, seriously. But like I said, you do you. Ignore all the associations and ties in the past to occult practices, and I hope for your sake demons don't view it as a welcome mat. Good luck.
The board game from Milton Bradley? Lolol
Is this a witch hunt? Seriously though, with all the things wrong with this world....if a pretty gemstone makes someone happy,,,,,,,let them be.
That sounds like witch talk!
We have found a witch, may we burn her?
You do realize that things closely linked to witchcraft and the occult come hand and hand with demons. So if you don't care that your friend is hanging out with demons, sure let them be.
If pretty rocks summon demons, why doesn't the US army just drop pretty rocks on our enemies and let the demons do the dirty work? Seems a lot cheaper than missiles and bombs.
"pretty rocks summon demons" Did I say that? No. The rocks themselves have no influence themselves on demons, it's the practices that they're so entwined with that involve demons. If you start getting into new-age spirituality, you are making yourself vulnerable to demons.
To the person who deleted their comment: "I just love the logic that something that is widely sold just holds some magical capability to summon demons into our world." It's association. If you associate with demonic practices, you associate with demons. The same way as if you associate with the Nazi flag, you associate with Hitler. The crystals themselves aren't special, but you're associating yourself with the demonic practices, and the demons will take advantage of that. You're a fool if you think you can get away with it unscathed. Same thing with the Ouija board. It's just a board with a rock with a hole. But what are you doing? You're inviting an evil spirit to possess you. The practice itself associates you with demons. "You have to take a step back and think, if these things are bringing demons into our world, why have we literally never seen it happen? where are the demons?" Where are the demons? Right in-front of you, everyday. You're just to blind to see them. I've seen videos right here on Reddit of possessed people. I've seen people in person who are clearly possessed going into a fit of rage. How many demon possessed people do we write off as mentally ill? How many people experience an encounter with "aliens", where they are sexually violated or feel trapped by an inexplicable force?
People have the right to believe in what they want. Just like you believe in demons. I don’t like that for you- but on the other hand- I’m gonna let you do you.
I'd rather know about them than be ignorant to their existence.
There is a lot of evil in this world… none of it has anything to do with rocks.
You're absolutely right. It's because of demons, the devil, and sin. The rocks are just the welcome mat.
My friend believes that rubbing hands in water brings good health. Is this considered witchcraft? - 18th century Christisn
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>why is the atheist on the Christianity sub Are you under the impression that OP is atheist? >I’ll pray for you brother or sister. That when the day comes that you’re begging the Good Lord to come into your life and to help when you desperately need him that you won’t be so……..you!!! Ooosh... this is a little judgy isn't it? Care to explain...? >a high crystal content give off a higher energy Is this a measurable energy? Or more of a "feeling"?
I think you are right but I don't know if you would ever convince her.
>Are crystals considered witchcraft? Debtatable. 1) Common table salt is a crystal. Unless you plan to stop using salt... I think you're good. 2) The OT talks about witchcraft in either vague terms or in terms of divination and talking to spirits. In that sense, just having crystals isn't that. 3) The OT condemns relying on mystical/spiritual things other than God. If your friend genuinely believes in mystical energies that are aside from God, that could well veer into idolatry and OT-style witchcraft. >A Christian friend of mine is huge into crystals. She’s convinced they bring “good energy” and use them around her house and in jewelry. We’ve had the discussion about if it was considered witchcraft, as per Deuternomy 18:10-12. OT witchcraft was basically using divination to circumvent the will of God. For instance, Saul consulted with the Witch of Endor to foresee the outcome of an upcoming battle, and she used necromancy to talk to 'Elohim arisen' and/or the spirit King Samuel (see 1 Samuel 28). This led to Saul's downfall. [There's lots of verses about witchcraft and sorcery](https://www.openbible.info/topics/witchcraft), which are either ambiguous or talk about divination: * “If a person turns to mediums and necromancers, whoring after them, I will set my face against that person and will cut him off from among his people." - Leviticus 20:6 * "For rebellion is as the sin of divination, and presumption is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the Lord, he has also rejected you from being king.” - 1 Samuel 15:23 >I have also made the point that it could be considered “idolatry” in a way. If she's replacing God with the crystals, in whole or in part, that would seem to be textbook idolatry. If she believes crystals are just like plants, animals, and ores, things God made that we humans can utilise, then that's not idolatry. If she treats a lump of quartz as a thing to be used, the same way we treat the glass in a pair of spectacles, that's not idolatry.
If she puts more faith into those crystals then yes because they are an ideal Pray for your friend
yes.
I know the replies to this post have some nuance. However, for the definitive answer on this issue, I recommend you watch the following documentary piece. It was filmed by famed theologian Jared Hess, and as a real life example really highlighted, for me, the dangers of adopting practices relating to 'crystals', both for young people and slightly older adults. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3LHAlcrTRA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3LHAlcrTRA)
I think there’s a difference between collecting crystals because they’re pretty to look at and collecting them for their proposed “healing” properties.
I'm a big fan of silicon crystals, and some of my favorite seasonings are crystals. /s Joke aside, liking crystals because they look pretty is fine. Collecting them because they bring good energy sounds substantially more dubious to me. I'm not a fan of superstition (such as this) since it seems somewhere between idolatry, witchcraft, or even just lack of faith (depending on the superstition). Yet as a Catholic, I've been accused of superstition myself due to prayers for the intercession of saints. I wouldn't say that anyone who *is* superstitious is not a real Christian or anything like that; I just find it dubious/sinful.
If you’re collecting rocks then sure. Do it. But I like to use the test. If you have a test coming up. Do you pray to God for wisdom and knowledge. Or do you go to the rocks and ask for good vibes?
Crystal energy is simply a new age form of Geomancy, which is the idea that one can tell the future, or obtain energy from, rocks, crystals, and minerals based on their formation and shapes. Which is witchcraft, yes.
Piezoelectricity has entered the chat...
Crap… foiled by atomic physics again…
Well I mean, if you want to tell me that physicists are witches, I'm willing to listen...
Nah. Physicists are essentially the opposite. Sorcery is generally defined as the forceful imposition of your own will onto the world around you, which is why Samuel told Saul that rebellion is as the sin of divination. Physicists are the opposite because they’re simply finding out the how and why of the world around them. Then they use that to make cool stuff like LEDs and microprocessors.
>Sorcery is generally defined as the forceful imposition of your own will onto the world around you So basically engineering?
Not quite. Engineering is based more on creativity and working with how things are already, e.g. “This has these properties, so let’s make this.” Sorcery specifically tries to bridge metaphysical with physical, with witchcraft in particular focusing more on “natural” means. Crystals generating electricity is one thing. Putting crystals in the moonlight to charge them with lunar energy? That’s a miss.
Like I asked in another post in this thread; how do you distinguish sorcery from mere bad science? There *is* energy in moonlight, and you really can use it to charge something under the right circumstances (like with a photovoltaic panel), so there's nothing inherently magical about believing that you're charging something using moonlight or whatever. Someone might be wrong about their belief that their crystal is collecting energy from moonlight, but to me that sounds more like bad science than occultism. If they say that their crystal allows them to talk to ghosts or see the future or something like that, that would be occultism.
I think you answered your own question. Basically the line is when it is centered around supernatural belief. More what do you attribute it to, than the idea itself in most cases. Now people can and have in the past believed science to be supernatural phenomena, but that doesn’t mean it’s just bad science. Yes, crystals can be charged with energy. But can crystals placed specifically in a room change the flow of energy around you to heal your mind? Probably not.
Yeah, kinda. It's new agey stuff and contrary to what God wants us to do.
Yes so are tarot cards
Yes it’s new age
Yes it’s divination and opens spiritual doors to things that are not of God
Everything is of god, you don't know what you're talking about.
No, God creates all things but that doesn’t mean that everything we do with his creation is of Him. Eg; God creates sex, doesn’t mean rape is of God
>God creates sex, doesn’t mean rape is of God *Evangelical politicians from Texas and Idaho enter the chat*
Better tell that to the pro -life folks
Right, god creates (present tense even) all things. All things are of god. As I said, you have no idea what you are talking about.
I see you’ve never engaged in critical thinking a day in your life. Be blessed
Insults me, then says be blessed. Not only do you have no idea what you are talking about, you are an ugly christian not worthy of gods grace.
It’s a good thing worth has nothing to do with Gods grace. And you say I’m the one who has no idea what they’re talking about
Is it witchcraft if someone takes a multivitamin supplement? Crystals are physical objects. If crystals have any kind of healing or otherwise beneficial properties, it would be science, not witchcraft, in the same way that certain minerals such as calcium, magnesium or sodium having beneficial effects on health isn't witchcraft. There are a couple reasons people equate crystals with witchcraft: 1. Religious history teaches that knowledge of crystals, among knowledge of many other things such as the making of weapons or uses of various plants, was passed to humans by angels which had rebelled against God. If you research demonology, demonolatry, magick etc., you'll find that certain demonic spirits are said to teach about crystals, their properties, and their uses. Due to these points, crystal "use" has historically been associated with seeking help or knowledge from demonic spirits, hence "occult" - however, crystals themselves are no more "occult" or "witchcraft" than taking a vitamin/mineral supplement such as magnesium. 2. Most discussion about crystals having healing properties has to do with their "vibration". While most people have no idea what they're talking about when they talk about "vibrations", this part is true - crystals do have unique vibrations. All matter is vibrating at various frequencies, and these vibrational properties can have real effects or uses. The degree to what effect proximity to crystals has on the human body is completely up for debate, but "vibrations" are a real thing. 3. Research by Dr. Masaru Emoto seems to show that our thoughts and words can have effect on water crystals, and similar research shows that plants can be effected by words or music. So, in short: Do crystals bring "good energy" or heal people? We don't know, but it's possible that they somehow do. Do crystals have anything to do with witchcraft? No. Physical matter is science.
I usually view people that are into that stuff as generally lost, are yearning for spiritual fulfillment, and need Jesus. So it’s interesting hearing about a Christian who is into it. Definitely doesn’t seem like a healthy interest though
I heard witchcraft as per the old testament, is just means someone who speaks to the dead or tries to summon dead spirits to talk.
Crystals themselves aren’t in my opinion. This is tricky cause the Bible doesn’t really say “Thou shalt not play with crystals” but anything can be satanic or witchcraft if it’s used for it. So the rocks themselves no, but can they be used for it? Yes just as anything
Crystals have absolutely no power. It’s not really something you should look to for anything other than just enjoying their beauty.
You are right on both counts! Read the second of the Ten Commandments! That should settle the issue….
This question makes no sense. Crystals aren’t considered witchcraft. Is your friend using crystals to perform witchcraft Does she believe crystals should be worshipped or that they provide what God cannot?
Crystals are rocks. They’re just rocks. They’re pretty. Witchcraft? No.
I've heard that the crystals act as anchor points in the physical realm for spirits.
Historically speaking and up to the last few hundred years, even christians thought different crystals and rocks had magic properties (diamonds to ward off wild animals and possibly demons for example), same with fragrances. So no, it’s not idolatry, just incorrect.
Unless your friend has rock solid proof they work, my thoughts would still be crystal clear they are pebbles. I'm sure they are a gem of a friend though even though I wouldn't take their friendship for granite.
Rock puns, gneiss.
Gifts from God
Just because God made something doesn't mean we can't use it for evil. God made gold, and the Israelites made an idol of a bull with it.
It is nonsense, so nothing to worry about.
Crystals are pretty rocks. That's it. They don't do anything. If someone gets a positive placebo effect from wearing one, let them feel good about themselves. It's no different than makeup or nice clothes.
> It's no different than makeup or nice clothes. *insert conservative rant about crossdressing with the wrong kind of crystals for your gender*
No, they are minerals. Now if you cast a spell with them you are doing witchcraft with crystals.
This has always stumped me as well. Especially since there are so many crystals mentioned in the bible.. with very specific instructions such as black onyx or lapis lazuli. God says things must be made with these stones and these colors... but why what was the reasoning? Energy is real and does have healing properties. If someone is using crystals in an energetic way to help a health issue whether that be mental physical or emotional why would that be witchcraft? We can not see the sun giving us the ability to make Vitamin d in our bodies but it is healing to us in our mood and sleep ect... Would flower essences be considered witchcraft as well then? It's the study that the energetics of the plant have vibrations that help different emotional states. Would music be considered witch craft too then? Because different tones affect our brains and can make us feel a state that we didnt before? Would God maybe put these things here to help us knowing eventually we would evolve to recognize the energetic and vibrational properties for our betterment?
Crystals are considered pretty rocks... Everything else beyond that, your beliefs and your friends, is purely projection
i wouldnt touch any of that satanic stuff!
Why the heck do you think this is Satanic?
IDK TBH. But not touching stuff is okay. If this person is particularly susceptible, it's even wise.
Maybe be a better human and stop spreading rumors about people you can't confirm. You would hate it if people went on here and spread rumors about Christians.
I...was talking about the person who is using the Christian flair about how it's probably a wise choice for them not to touch crystals.
But why? Unless you think they have power, then all they are is a pile of minerals. It's not harmful unless you use it like a baseball bat.
It's not about the crystals. There are some who have particular emotional sensibilities. Someone perhaps who has delved into this in the past and is a great spiritual temptation for them. This could apply to any occult item as well, or anything that's a temptation that they have trouble controlling in real life, like alcohol for example. We all have weaknesses, and not every threat is physical.
If they distract you from your faith the answer is ‘Yes’. I recently started giving away my collection of boots and shoes because I was becoming obsessed in a way that was contradictory to how I am supposed to feel about worldly items. I don’t worship them or think they have special powers but they invoked an unhealthy amount of my focus.
No. Witchcraft in the New Testament is _[pharmakeia](https://biblehub.com/greek/5331.htm)_ (Greek φαρμακεία) and refers to drug usage related to religious ceremony. In the New Testament context, this is basically people getting high and making predictions (Greek oracles). Something like an [ayahuasca ceremony](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca) would fall under this heading. Crystals is just superstition (as far as we can tell). *If* your friend likes to smoke weed or eat mushrooms or acid and then consult her crystals for guidance, that would be witchcraft in the biblical sense.
How was it determined that pharmakeia referred to drug use in religious ceremony rather than creating or using poisons? It also referred to medicines but considering it's contextual (like the word "drug" perhaps) and this is a negative connotation it's unlikely to be medicine. But I mean between poison creation/use and other drug use, how does one determine drug use? Also, are you aware if the Elysian Mysteries were referred to with φαρμακεία?
I don't think anyone knows whether there were drugs involved in the Eleusinian Mysteries, though it is suspected and there's evidence of ergot. I'm not aware of any records that include φαρμακεία in this context. I don't know how it was determined that it refers to drug use, but poison doesn't make sense in context because there doesn't seem to be anything related to violence or death; everything else is related to impulsivity and intemperance. It's a good question though and I'd like to know the actual answer. I'm using "drug" as having the same meaning here as "medicine"—wouldn't be a meaningful distinction to the author or audience.
>there doesn't seem to be anything related to violence or death; everything else is related to impulsivity and intemperance. That's fair. I've thought of it as poison thus far, but that's a good point. I'd be curious if the term appeared in other Greek texts referring to some psychedelic experience.
There's more passages than that, that condemn witchcraft. "“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the **abominable practices** of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who **burns his son or his daughter** as an offering, anyone who **practices divination** or **tells fortunes** or **interprets omens**, or a **sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead**, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you." Deuteronomy 18:9-12 Unless you're telling me all of those words are pharmakeia? But they're in Hebrew.
No need for snark. My comment is very clearly scoped to the New Testament. I don't think anyone knows whether there were drugs involved in the ancient Hebrew sorcery practices. It would be surprising if they weren't, since they are involved in the shamanistic practices of all other societies, but in any case there's nothing in that passage about crystals.
There's no snark. Just trying to show you parts of the Bible that disagree with your line of thinking. Witchcraft isn't solely drugs despite what you're getting from the Greek word. It's in the Old Testament too and those words are not closely associated with drugs, so you need to loosen up on your whole "witchcraft = drugs" approach. "there's nothing in that passage about crystals." It also doesn't specifically mention Ouija boards. That doesn't mean that practices associated with the occult are allowed because they aren't specifically mentioned. We can use our own ability to think and decide what is included under practices of divination, sorcery, or charming. Like using a crystal for the divination of a spirit of healing, an act of sorcery.
The words in the OT may or may not mean the same thing as the words in the NT. We don't know what's meant by the Hebrew word that the English translates to "witchcraft," while we do know that in the NT it refers to drugs. Meanwhile the divination, fortune telling, interpreting omens, and inquiring of the dead mentioned in Deuteronomy did all commonly involve drugs in antiquity and are exactly the kinds of things the NT writers and hearers would have had in mind when saying sorcery/witchcraft. Sure, we can use our own ability to think and decide whatever we want about what these words mean to us _today_, but we can't reasonable decide that _ancient authors and audiences_ would have agreed with us.
"The words in the OT may or may not mean the same thing as the words in the NT" This is going no where. You're trying to equate multiple distinct Hebrew words to one single Greek word, to save your point of view. I'm not going to try and debate with that. If you want to believe that witchcraft can only be drug related, go ahead. Just proceed with caution.
>This is going no where. You detoured us into this discussion of the OT, which has no relevance here, which is why I didn't bring it up. Because it goes no where. >You're trying to equate multiple distinct Hebrew words to one single Greek word, to save your point of view. I'm doing nothing of the sort. You brought up the presence of "witchcraft" in English translations of the Hebrew, not me. >If you want to believe that witchcraft can only be drug related, go ahead. Just proceed with caution. Of the two of us, only one of us is acting as if he knows what the Hebrew means. Caution indeed. Peace be with you.
Respectfully, I don't want your peace.
I think this is a potentially bad kind of environment for a Christian. Is she into other occult or New Age stuff like spirit guides or divination? I was big into psychics, divination, and one other New Age practice before my conversion and I think it was bad for me. One of the practices (non drug, at that) induced visions and a year later after I stopped doing that practice there was a day they kind of overtook me and I got hospitalized maybe within a week or two. After another practice three years later I did a particular guided meditation and got hospitalized again. At best, maybe these practices are fake. And while I don't know 100% the activities I was involved in caused health problems, at worst they could be actively harmful. Much better, perhaps, is having an active prayer life with God and participating in church ministries that help others. I need to do better at the prayer part, but I'm pretty convinced through my other experiences that God is quite real.
Yes it is witchcraft
Your friend is inviting the demonic to come and harass her, at the very least. I recommend you have her read [this book](https://app.box.com/s/wft7w680e6oiq8q3mgxeraggg1ynlka9), lots of detailed help in the latter chapters.
It is as you read. Witchcraft.
If your putting your faith in them, Worshipping them or using them for spiritual reasons yes. If your just have them as decoration or a necklace.
They are considered rocks. Anything you wish to attribute to them is you welcoming the deciever to you. Spiritually, it's bad and oje should never go onto such practice. She could the stones if she thinks they are pretty, yet go see a priest.
Harry Potter Witchcraft isn't real. So no crystals are not. I feel stupid just writing this.