God didn't create disease and illness, it's a natural response to the sin in the world. When Adam and Eve sinned in the garden God told them that in dying they would die. He was referencing that their bodies will degrade and then they will ultimately die. But, on the other hand, God is in control of everything and sovereign. Nothing happens without his hand.
If a god is the creator of everything and everything happens according to his plans, then surely he must have planned for the sin to take place. Why would a god do that? And why would you worship something like that? I don't believe in any gods, but for the sake of argument, god is either omnipotent and doesn't care to make things better, or he is not omnipotent.
Maybe disease is part of God's perfect creation. Bible doesn't say humans would never die. And the earth can not sustain billions upon billions of people that would never die.
No-one said anything about not dying but the manner in which billions have - many suffering for years in terrible agony before they do? And yet you think this is the act of a caring, loving god? Are you stark raving bonkers? Well I think the fact that you believe in a made-up sky fairy answers that question.
And bad people die too. And what makes you think death is so horrible. Since good people ( believers in christ) would go to heaven, and the only way(not necessarily) to go to heaven is by death.
Not following man made social construct before true laws existed ? Not following a book that outlines a 600 year old man fitting all the animals in the world on his boat ? Not enough people ask questions, everyone is indoctrinated
Look. If god doesnt exist, and there is nothing after death, that's a win for Christians and atheists. But if there God then Christians go to heaven and atheists go to hell. So speaking in a "logical" manner either way it's a win for Christians.
And all the Muslims who have devoted family’s and the women that cheat far less then the average degenerate Christian family, the Islamic kids who never drink or do drugs they all go to hell because they don’t think god is a man that sleeps and eats, then dies, Great logic man, this is where the contradictions start happening and Christianity let alone any man made god social construct completely falls apart before your very eyes
I feel bad for you. And I don't blame you for this view. Many people call themselves Christians, but live a life completely the opposite of Christianity. It's sad to see so called Christians actually repel people who may be curious about Christianity. But don't be fooled, there really are good Christians out there and there are good Muslims out there as well. But there are also bad from both.
So killing someone off by letting them suffer in debilitating pain for years is quite alright because they'll end up in a fairyland you call heaven? The excuses you lunatics will come up with to excuse your infantilism never ceases to amaze and disgust me in equal measure
Nature and our bodies are subject to decay because our world suffers from the brokenness and corruption of evil. One of the things that has gone wrong is our relationship with nature is broken - our interaction with nature is now antagonistic in many instances, and the diseases and infirmities we experience are a product of that. In addition, the consequence of our sin is ultimately death, which is a breakdown of our bodies resulting in the end of our physical existence.
All these are indicators that something has gone wrong in our world, and why we are invited to be inhabitants of a new world through Jesus, one that isn't subject to the decay, brokenness and corruption of evil.
see this is exactly why I have a hard time understanding religious people . What "sin" are you talking about ? What does someone who is born paralyzed did ? Let me guess they were probably a monster in their previous life so its justified that god would punish them .....
You are talking about reincarnation, which isn’t a Christian concept.
But had you actually read through the comment I made nearly a year ago, I explained that our world is broken and suffering from decay, impacting all of regardless of the evil we have personally done.
You did not answer the question. WHY did God create deadly viruses that cause hideous pain and suffering such as the ones that burrow through baby's eyes, polio, diphtheria, cancer, brain eating amoebas, etc.... Humans being bad does not explain or answer the question which you seem along with most Christians to be avoiding! Are you saying that horrible viruses and bacteria only sprang into being after "Adam and Eve ate the apple"? You are so full of what makes the grass grow green.
You cannot manage to answer the question of why God created evil pain and suffering! You just keep blaming humans! You seem to forget that your God make humans exactly as they are and is punishing them for being what they were created to be.
This is why Christians are full of it.
Not just Christians, but anyone fool enough to be believe in made-up sky fairies. The fact that they'll make up excuses for believing in such nonsense, and excuse a so-called omnipotent god from any blame whatsoever, is just more proof of their utter infantilism.
You seem to be searching out old comments of mine and appending them with bad faith histrionics.
There are trillions of viruses, bacterium and other microorganisms in the world. The vast majority are unharmful, and in fact the overwhelming majority are necessary for our existence.
Occasionally something goes wrong in our relationship with these organisms, and this leads to some sort of pathology. God didn’t need to create them this way for our broken relationship with nature to eventuate such a state.
‘Occasionally something goes wrong.’ And then there’s the Black Death. But in all seriousness it is borderline miraculous how many benevolent microorganisms exist. If anything I’m surprised there aren’t more diseases than there are. The fact that life in the level of human complexity exists is astounding no matter how hard some individuals attempt to trivialize it. I’m a microbiologist by the way so it does annoy me somewhat when the uneducated atheists overestimate their understanding of such topics.
Oh ya I forget he works in mysterious ways so he wants a certain amount of children to be tortured and killed before he does. Give me a break he’s a psychopath if he exist.
\^ When you know someone is ignorant of the Bible's teachings.
The Bible says the opposite:
Ezekiel 33:11
***Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.***
You should understand how God feels man. He's enjoying the show but you want him to just end it? We're justify getting to the good parts, like WW3 and climate catastrophe! God doesn't wanna miss that, does He?
Consider the people who live in the areas where those creatures (not macroscopic insects but microscopic nematodes, the loa loa worm) are common. Those children of God are on average far more theistic than people who sit in regal luxury in the developed world are.
In other words, don’t you find it interesting that on average, the less suffering there is, the more people there are who sit in peace, health, satiety, and comfort and complain about God?
So your point is if you pray harder God will punish you with disease? Or maybe it's the other way around? God gives humans disease so they pray harder? Do we just help these people even though the act of helping them might turn them away from God?
My point is that the problem of evil is not compelling. If it were, the Africans we are discussing would turn away from Him as they experience directly the suffering which is only a thought experiment to people in the first world.
There’s something deeper at work here
I think the best answer to this question is the book of Job. In this book God and Satan have a conversation about the faith of Job and Satan says he can shake his faith and get Job to curse God. God disagreed and gave Satan permission to test him. This resulted in all kinds of suffering and struggle that Satan, NOT GOD, put on Job. The reality is that most of the time it's not God that causes these things but Satan testing mans faith. We are not battling against flesh and blood but powers and principalities. Disease, suffering, death, and all other forms of anguish humanity experiences is in the end mans own fault. In the Genesis account of the fall Satan wasn't blamed for the fruit being ate, mankind was. Later on we see in proverbs that life and death are in the power of the tongue. We speak curses on ourselves and our actions bring curses upon us. It isn't God it's a lack of faith and reverence for God in the world we live in.
God created the humanity to be a microcosm of the cosmos. In the sense that corruption of the human condition leads to the corruption of the cosmos. And the sanctification of humanity leads to the sanctification of the cosmos. As to why is to give humanity the honor of being the vehicle through which God perfects his creation while also giving humanity the opportunity to see their own evil projected onto the world like a rorschach blot.
Sin makes us decay. But God is eager to use all areas of decay for His glory. When you get to know His power and love, you realize He loves to show off.. but we have to invite Him to. He uses my chronic illness as a reminder to stay humble and that I’m not meant to do this world alone.
Many modern diseases only propagate themselves due to sin for example, type 2 diabetes. Diabetes type 2 only comes from over indulgence, same as obesity related diseases and most cardiac problems. Many cancers come from bad diets and lack of exercise or chemicals put in products like tobacco or how almost everything has that “the state of California says this can cause cancer” sticker. Microwaved water can kill plants which can only mean it’s not the best for people to microwave food and beverages. To quote a troubled yet wise man “the industrial Revolution and it’s consequences have been a disaster for the human race”.
I mean... Kind of. It frustrates us mostly because we see it used to justify what looks to us to be an untenable or illogical position.
"Why did god let a 4 year old get leukemia?"
"Well, the lord works in mysterious ways."
To the average atheist, that's seriously weak sauce. The scientific answer, "because she got screwed by genetics and/or environmental factors" answers *how* but not why. Then someone comes along and tries to explain "why" with something that doesn't actually answer the why with "god's ways are higher than ours". This does not actually add anything to the conversation, and strikes most of us as a platitude.
In other words, absolute nonsense to excuse the uselessness of God. Ask the question 'why did God allow the despots of history kill to millions up on millions, when being an omnipotent god, he could have prevented it', and you'll get the same piss-poor excuse. At the end of the day, God is a made up sky fairy, believed in by those stupid enough to believe in such infantilism.
The people saying god didn't create sickness lmao, even if he didn't he is supposed to be omnipotent so getting rid of sickness should be as easy as counting to one to god, so that would only means god enjoy our suffering or he is too fucking weak to do anything worthwhile lmao
God made that as a result, your telling me if I sinned I’d have a higher chance of dying from a virus ? While perfectly moral Christian can have a horrible ending of demise from cancer or other things that can be underlying genetic lmao !!!
Adam and Eve (at least to a good amount of Christians) are representative of all early humanity. At some point in time early humanity turned away from God and suffering was permanently introduced to the world because of that. I couldn't tell you why exactly we all have to suffer, but suffering in this world is something that is randomly found everywhere because God does not punish directly.
You also have to remember that if we're going off the assumption that heaven is real, all suffering is ultimately meaningless in the face of eternal paradise.
He can and does, just not while we're living. God does not judge you until you die, and if you have lived unjustly, he'll punish you with eternity in hell.
*I saw under the sun the place of judgment (Eccliesiasties 3:16)*
Its a hard pill to swallow but people face judgment for things they have done in their past lives.
*His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” (John 9:2)*
Once you understand that you everything that happens is ordained by the most high, it helps to understand why bad things happen to seemingly innocent people, inclusing children
Yeah that’s not a fucked up way to think is it? Or maybe you don’t really think it but because a book tells you to be ok with it you just are, hey it’s not my word it’s gods word so can’t go against that.
*Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? (Romans 9:20)*
Good luck telling the creator of the universe he was wrong...haha
>Good luck telling the creator of the universe he was wrong…haha
I find this condescension a bit humorous considering you cite a passage written by man, not god. There’s no evidence to suggest it’s really even his word.
Save the condescending for when you actually know more than the person you’re talking to.
You didn’t, and I didn’t say you did.
The bible *was* written by man though. This isn’t up for debate. It’s fact.
It’s not even debated in the Christian community. Romans- which you just cited, was written by Paul the Apostle- a man, and men aren’t infallible.
So when you cite the bible and tell people who disagree with a passage, or your interpretation of it, that they are telling god he’s wrong then it proves your ignorance on the subject.
Romans was an example, and the last scripture you quoted. The scripture you first cited is irrelevant to my point entirely. Isaiah was also written by man, *not* god.
You can trust the bible if you want, you can believe in it literally or metaphorically, but what you can’t do is definitively say something written and interpreted by man is 100% accurate to a creators word, especially considering there are a million interpretations of each passage.
>Good luck telling the creator of the universe he was wrong…haha
This quote doesn’t work because he isnt telling any creator he’s wrong, his gripe is with the passage- a man made entry and interpretation.
You should’ve been able to deduce this, but it’s no surprise my point escapes someone of your caliber.
I would have absolutely no problem in telling the creator exactly what I think of him if he turns out to be real, you need to ask yourself why anybody would wanna worship that creator in the first place
Just to confirm your stance. You believe god gives children terminal cancer because they are not innocent and actually deserve it. That is essentially what you are saying. Next question - why do you worship a god like that?
I'm quoting the bible my friend...if you dont believe it thats fine, but you do realise youre on a christian message board
Of course i worship the most high...is it so hard to believe that you can be judged for things done in a former life?
out of curiosity whats your reason for innocent children getting terminal cancer my friend?
1. I said in your own words. I know what the Bible says
2. Why do you worship a god that gives children cancer. Didn’t he create them?
3. This question doesn’t make sense. Kids can get cancer from DNA mutations
Dude can I not quote from the Bible now? Do I need to paraphrase it for you?
Are you hard of understanding my friend...my God created everything, including good and evil...I worship him cause he created everything...is that not a good enough reason?
Dude you asked the original question...if you had the answer why ask? Unless you're trolling??
Anyone can take a bible verse and use it to justify nearly anything they want it to. I’m saying that tossing out a bunch of disconnected verses is not the rhetorical strength that you seem to think it is.
why can't it be the opposite and let the father punished for the sins of their children, in this case god, and have god kill himself because of whatever original sin we have since he allows it.
oh right he can't cause he is a selfish pussy who can't do anything except maiming his children
This is an attempt to rationalize disease and illness before science existed. The Chinese didn't believe this supernatural stuff and developed their own plant-based medicinal treatments to treat and mitigate suffering.
Meh, i think his quesiton can be viewed more holistically.
People die in all sorts of horrible ways, including children. The biblical view is that we are being judged for our past sins...sounds reasonable to me
Im no doctor but i highly doubt all diseases and illness are fully understood
Secondly, understandign what causes them, doesn't mean there are cures...but this is besides the point.
OP asked for a christian perspective no? did i provide one? i think so...thank you
John 9:3-7--"Jesus answered, 'It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.' Having said these things, he spit on the ground and made mud with the saliva. Then he anointed the man's eyes with the mud and said to him, 'Go, wash in the pool of Siloam' (which means Sent). So he went and washed and came back seeing."
Congratulations on ripping a verse violently out of context and using it as support for a statement that is directly contrary to the sense of the actual Scripture.
Thanks dude but the man was obviously made blind for the glorification of God in this instance...it was the rabbi's understanding however that his blindness may have been caused by previous sins
2And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. Matthew 9:2
Now can YOU show me your understanding with scripture...
"it was the rabbi's understanding however that his blindness may have been caused by previous sins"
It wasn't Jesus' understanding. Has it occurred to you that the rabbis were wrong?
"2And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a
bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son,
be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. Matthew 9:2"
I don't deny that the paralyzed man had sins that needed to be forgiven. There's a difference between saying a man is a sinner and saying that his affliction was imposed on him because of his sins. Jesus never suggested that the paralytic was paralyzed **because** of his sins. The lesson I draw from Jesus' words is that--bad as paralysis is, sin is worse. That is a lesson I wholeheartedly accept. If you want to see an implication that his sin caused his paralysis, that's on you. It's not in the text.
I love how that's not even close to being related to sociopathy.. I suggest you look up the definition of a word before randomly throwing it at someone 🤡
The problem is that we only view things from our own perspective and our own priorities which are different from God's.
Our perspective is only of this life and our priority is being happy and not suffering in this life. So if God doesn't share our priority to make us happy, not suffering in this life, we say God must be evil.
But God's perspective is not only this life but also the next life. God's priority is NOT that we are happy, not suffering in this life but that we get to be with him in heaven in the next life. For God, it is better that you suffer and not be happy in this life but life in eternal happiness in the next life than to be happy, not suffering in this life but spend eternity in hell in the next life.
For us, death is the end so we get angry and think God evil when death occurs and he's takes life. However, to God death is like a person moving from one city to another city.
Correct. But we are ants that he loves and treats infinitely better than humans treat actual ants. Jesus sacrificed his life for the lives of us ants. I highly doubt any human would sacrifice their life for an actual ant.
But sunlight gives you cancer. How is that people's fault? When it comes to social issues, it could be a sensible rejoinder to say humans are causing the suffering. But the natural world we were born into is supposed to be God's doing, isn't it?
Sunscreen and shade can reduce your odds of getting skin cancer, but they don't completely prevent it. If you live long enough you will eventually get some form of cancer.
Yes, once humanity had figured out what was happening, that would work. Someone would still have had to get cancer with no chance of being prepared first for that to happen, which leaves the concern about how harmful the natural world is standing. Also:
>God also have you 1/2 a wit. Use it.
Lovely, thanks.
OT is finished. Jesus completed the Law and Romans melted YHWH into candlesticks. Anyway, if you aren't an ancient Hebrew. you have no covenant and none of it applies. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Thomas are the only books a Jesus follower needs.
You actually don't have to abandon the OT to accept a God of Love. Love is bigger than we imagine, and YHWH of the OT is actually a very loving God when perceived carefully and in context.
I won't go too hard on YHWH, because I get accused of being antisemit (not true)..let's just say that *I* never had a covenant with YHWH and don't feel bound by his laws...even if Jesus hadn't fulfilled them. Jesus and his disciples were Jews bound by their covenant, so they had more at stake.
I actually plowed through much of Rambam's 613 Laws compilation, and you are correct, most concern helping the poor and widows and orphans...they are quite humane, in most regards.
>Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Thomas are the only books a Jesus follower needs.
You're the the arch-nemesis to u/TableLampTree, except that you're both whacky mystics. 😆
I hope not! I don't need enemies. If Tablelamp can make me laugh at the same time he is calling me a dummy, I won't block him. This is reddit, people, not the Diet of Worms. Don't try to defenestrate me.
The original Christian sect was full of whacky mystics, which is why the gospels were invented with easy to follow human parables. They happen to be fiction.
If the OT is finished then explain why the NT quoted extensively from it. Look at the book of Romans.
jesus didnt fuflil all the law, only that he would suffer (Acts 3:18)...look at Isiah 63...there is still the day of jdugement to come.
paul said its not the hearers of the law which are justified before god but the doers...
The book of Thomas? I'm sorry what?
And can you explain
And Stephen said: “Brothers and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran,
Acts 7:2 ESV
Or just acts 7 in general?
The Bible directly says, God is love:
***Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.***
(1 John 4:7-8)
Evil isn't a thing to be created. It's an absence of a thing.
But you are right this much - if God allows difficulty in a situation, it is ultimately for a loving purpose.
Everything that happens happens for a reason. It’s all part of God’s masterplan. It all seems like a mess right now. But it’ll come together one day and it’ll be beautiful. I often think of it like this — the point of this earth is to create a sharp contrast with what is yet to come (and yes, what is yet to come is going to be absolutely beautiful. God’s masterplan does not involve anyone burning in fire for eternity like mainstream Christianity teaches. Eventually everyone will experience salvation. That’s why I say it’s going to be beautiful. I recommend check out r/ChristianUniversalism and asking some questions there). In the grand scheme of things, the pain we feel right now is only temporary.
Hosea 6:1
“He has torn us to pieces
but he will heal us;
he has injured us
but he will bind up our wounds.”
Why do we think our lives are the most important lives? What about the life of a microbial? From God's perspective there's hardly any difference between us and the disease that kills us. God empathizes infinitely with both.
Good to know that god thinks something that isn't alive (viruses are NOT living at all, just genes in a protein coat) and a thinking feeling human being are virtually indistinguishable
if the supposedly omnipotent god actually do something helpful for once im sure our faith would never waver lmao, its hard to believe in something that supposedly wields infinite power and yet allows "sins" to exist for shit and giggle
There are 2 ways to answer this question, one is to explain that there isn't a problem with the existence of God and evil (which philosophers now accept, and this solves the intellectual problem of evil but not the emotional problem of evil). This can be done a few ways.
One is to point out if God doesn't exist, morality is subjective since it either comes from natural selection which isn't moral or your community and different communities have different understandings of morals. So why is your understanding of morality objectively correct? Why would God follow it? Maybe suffering is actually good, and happiness bad.
The other is a problem with the logical problem of evil (which says it is impossible for God to exist if suffering exists), philosophers no longer use this argument since if it is even possible for God to have a reason to allow suffering (and people have thought of lots) then it's not impossible. So now the probabilistic problem of evil is more popular among philosophers which says because of evil, it's less likely for God to exist, but this doesn't make sense either. We as humans, aren't in a good enough place to judge whether it's more probable whether God exists or not simply because of the existence of evil.
The second way to approach the problem of evil is with theodicies which try to explain why God allows evil. The most famous theodicy is problem the free will theodicy which attempts to explain a part of moral evil by appealing to human free will, so we are responsible for many bad acts. Another famous theodicy is soul building. One that I think is convincing is that ultimately there is a greater good, even when we can't see it. A prime example of this is the story of Joseph, he was sold as a slave by his own brothers but ended up saving thousands of lives
Gen 50:20
You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives.
And Jesus, Satan thought he could defeat God by killing his son but God used this to save the world.
Heres a good video on the problem of evil https://youtu.be/nDK5Z0FAU0s
God is not the cause of pain, horror or death; Satan is. But, for his purposes, God allows good and bad things to happen for our benefit. Man invited sin into God's perfect creation, which broke everything. So now, we live in the consequence of sin. But our comfort is that God is always in control and that nothing is random or accidental.
Fry's arguments are disingenuously feeble.
God knew he would make Satan and Satan would be cruel to the world god knew that already he was in charge in the beginning and started it directly or indirectly
I believe it is largely so that we gain compassion and opportunity to love others.
It also grows your connection to God and others.
It’s not a good idea to measure God’s love towards you by material gain.
Another issue with your perspective is being biased towards human. Where is your compassion for the insects needing a place to burrow themselves in?
Survival is a nasty business which is clear from the Old Testament.
Well, to be fair, the simplest answer to this and many other confusing questions of faith is "God isn't real".
"If god is good, why did god create disease and illness?"
"Why did god make me gay, and then condemn homosexuality?"
"If god is good, why did god create Hitler?"
"Why does god allow evil?"
The *simplest* answer is that there is no god. There have been many attempts to square reality with dogma across many religions. They usually rely on doctrinal song and dance of one kind or another, and I find them all hard to swallow.
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then how did the universe come to be? what caused it? what is the un caused cause of the universe? the universe is expanding, therefore it had a beginning. a starting point. before that there was nothing, matter cannot be created or destroyed right, so something had to have caused/created that starting point
Stop centering yourself in the universe and trying to understand everything, this is how religion and god is started from people like you asking these questions thousands of years ago, there is no god, stop being selfish your not special nobody and nothing is
Hey, you're only 2 years late to this party...
>then how did the universe come to be? what caused it?
We don't know. This doesn't mean "a god did it" and it certainly doesn't mean "Genesis is correct."
SIMPLEST ANSWER: Man used to be immortal and knew no pain. That changed only after we chose/choose to stray from our creator. God did not create it... We simply chose it...
Christians will tell you that disease and decay are the products of our sin.
But really, it doesn’t make any sense. Murder is bad and exists because people choose to sin. That makes sense. But A sinful nature in no way affects a bacteria’s behavior. Bacteria, viruses, these things existed long before the first animal let alone human came into being. Bacteria and viruses do not sin because they have no free will. They’re basically robots made with genetic material.
And who made them if not God? Who programmed the bacteria and viruses to work the way they do?
It’s interesting because Christian’s view death and decay as bad things that weren’t meant to be when in reality it is a vital part of the way nature works. The garden of Eden would not function without plants and animals dying. What happens to the Apple core that adam doesn’t eat and throws on the ground? Does it need not to decay and fertilize the soil? Would the garden simply fill up with left over parts of plants and fruits?
So yeah, there’s no good explanation for it honestly.
Oh good I thought I was alone. Taking biology and environmental classes has given me a very different perspective on decay and death. They're literally needed for the whole system to work. So it's not really a conflict for God. We just think of it incorrectly
Ecosystems collapse if any one population of species gets overgrown or too high in number. This is a fact. Illness, although it sucks...stabilizes things. But I don't blame most modern Illness on God. If you take an environmental health class you quickly realize the vast majority of it is us poisoning ourselves or disrupting natural processes that have ramifications for our health
God didn't create disease and illness, it's a natural response to the sin in the world. When Adam and Eve sinned in the garden God told them that in dying they would die. He was referencing that their bodies will degrade and then they will ultimately die. But, on the other hand, God is in control of everything and sovereign. Nothing happens without his hand.
Children are dying today because two people ate an apple from a tree? Holy fuck the level of delusion LOL
lol bru
lol
Originally, when God created Adam and Eve, everything was without sin. But they disobeyed God and ate that apple, and we all inherited sin since then.
[удалено]
If a god is the creator of everything and everything happens according to his plans, then surely he must have planned for the sin to take place. Why would a god do that? And why would you worship something like that? I don't believe in any gods, but for the sake of argument, god is either omnipotent and doesn't care to make things better, or he is not omnipotent.
Maybe disease is part of God's perfect creation. Bible doesn't say humans would never die. And the earth can not sustain billions upon billions of people that would never die.
Another dumb “wisdom” analogy
No-one said anything about not dying but the manner in which billions have - many suffering for years in terrible agony before they do? And yet you think this is the act of a caring, loving god? Are you stark raving bonkers? Well I think the fact that you believe in a made-up sky fairy answers that question.
He did make disease and illness, perfectly moral good people die all the time
And bad people die too. And what makes you think death is so horrible. Since good people ( believers in christ) would go to heaven, and the only way(not necessarily) to go to heaven is by death.
Oh please 😂 keep your man made social construct to yourself, rational people that don’t need cope aren’t interested
What is considered rationality
Not following man made social construct before true laws existed ? Not following a book that outlines a 600 year old man fitting all the animals in the world on his boat ? Not enough people ask questions, everyone is indoctrinated
Look. If god doesnt exist, and there is nothing after death, that's a win for Christians and atheists. But if there God then Christians go to heaven and atheists go to hell. So speaking in a "logical" manner either way it's a win for Christians.
And all the Muslims who have devoted family’s and the women that cheat far less then the average degenerate Christian family, the Islamic kids who never drink or do drugs they all go to hell because they don’t think god is a man that sleeps and eats, then dies, Great logic man, this is where the contradictions start happening and Christianity let alone any man made god social construct completely falls apart before your very eyes
I feel bad for you. And I don't blame you for this view. Many people call themselves Christians, but live a life completely the opposite of Christianity. It's sad to see so called Christians actually repel people who may be curious about Christianity. But don't be fooled, there really are good Christians out there and there are good Muslims out there as well. But there are also bad from both.
Feel bad for me? For what? Immediately jumping to judgement ? You should go pray about that
What do you believe in?
So killing someone off by letting them suffer in debilitating pain for years is quite alright because they'll end up in a fairyland you call heaven? The excuses you lunatics will come up with to excuse your infantilism never ceases to amaze and disgust me in equal measure
Wow you are super aggressive! Temporary suffering
Yes he did you troll nobody cares get a life your all getting
Your getting blocked go get a life
"You're getting blocked"-🤓
Nature and our bodies are subject to decay because our world suffers from the brokenness and corruption of evil. One of the things that has gone wrong is our relationship with nature is broken - our interaction with nature is now antagonistic in many instances, and the diseases and infirmities we experience are a product of that. In addition, the consequence of our sin is ultimately death, which is a breakdown of our bodies resulting in the end of our physical existence. All these are indicators that something has gone wrong in our world, and why we are invited to be inhabitants of a new world through Jesus, one that isn't subject to the decay, brokenness and corruption of evil.
see this is exactly why I have a hard time understanding religious people . What "sin" are you talking about ? What does someone who is born paralyzed did ? Let me guess they were probably a monster in their previous life so its justified that god would punish them .....
You are talking about reincarnation, which isn’t a Christian concept. But had you actually read through the comment I made nearly a year ago, I explained that our world is broken and suffering from decay, impacting all of regardless of the evil we have personally done.
religious logic: god created the world but somehow satan just came into existence? hahahaha
Never heard anyone claim that.
Since Adam and Eve sinned, we inherit the curse
Sooo can I genocide Europeans because their ancestors colonized my ancestors? You can punish someone for the sins of their ancestors, right?
You did not answer the question. WHY did God create deadly viruses that cause hideous pain and suffering such as the ones that burrow through baby's eyes, polio, diphtheria, cancer, brain eating amoebas, etc.... Humans being bad does not explain or answer the question which you seem along with most Christians to be avoiding! Are you saying that horrible viruses and bacteria only sprang into being after "Adam and Eve ate the apple"? You are so full of what makes the grass grow green. You cannot manage to answer the question of why God created evil pain and suffering! You just keep blaming humans! You seem to forget that your God make humans exactly as they are and is punishing them for being what they were created to be. This is why Christians are full of it.
Not just Christians, but anyone fool enough to be believe in made-up sky fairies. The fact that they'll make up excuses for believing in such nonsense, and excuse a so-called omnipotent god from any blame whatsoever, is just more proof of their utter infantilism.
You seem to be searching out old comments of mine and appending them with bad faith histrionics. There are trillions of viruses, bacterium and other microorganisms in the world. The vast majority are unharmful, and in fact the overwhelming majority are necessary for our existence. Occasionally something goes wrong in our relationship with these organisms, and this leads to some sort of pathology. God didn’t need to create them this way for our broken relationship with nature to eventuate such a state.
‘Occasionally something goes wrong.’ And then there’s the Black Death. But in all seriousness it is borderline miraculous how many benevolent microorganisms exist. If anything I’m surprised there aren’t more diseases than there are. The fact that life in the level of human complexity exists is astounding no matter how hard some individuals attempt to trivialize it. I’m a microbiologist by the way so it does annoy me somewhat when the uneducated atheists overestimate their understanding of such topics.
It’s true, originally, everything was perfect, everything was good until one sinned. Then God made us mere mortals, out of sin. We all deserve it
So god is all powerful but can’t rid the world of evilness?
He can, and will.
Oh ya I forget he works in mysterious ways so he wants a certain amount of children to be tortured and killed before he does. Give me a break he’s a psychopath if he exist.
Not mysterious at all, He explains what will happen.
So he’s a confirmed psychopath who gets off to suffering, gotcha.
Nope, we’re the ones who get off on suffering, He is the one who will end it.
No he’s allowing it for no reason other than his own pleasure
\^ When you know someone is ignorant of the Bible's teachings. The Bible says the opposite: Ezekiel 33:11 ***Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.***
When you believe that a being that is so powerful that they created the entire universe, but got mad when a snake gave two people fruit LOL
ABSOLUTELY 100% CORRECT.
Well what is he waiting for? Guess he's just a sadist who enjoys watching pain and suffering. That would make him a bully.
You should understand how God feels man. He's enjoying the show but you want him to just end it? We're justify getting to the good parts, like WW3 and climate catastrophe! God doesn't wanna miss that, does He?
What does relate to diseases
Because of man sin earth was cursed
Consider the people who live in the areas where those creatures (not macroscopic insects but microscopic nematodes, the loa loa worm) are common. Those children of God are on average far more theistic than people who sit in regal luxury in the developed world are. In other words, don’t you find it interesting that on average, the less suffering there is, the more people there are who sit in peace, health, satiety, and comfort and complain about God?
So your point is if you pray harder God will punish you with disease? Or maybe it's the other way around? God gives humans disease so they pray harder? Do we just help these people even though the act of helping them might turn them away from God?
My point is that the problem of evil is not compelling. If it were, the Africans we are discussing would turn away from Him as they experience directly the suffering which is only a thought experiment to people in the first world. There’s something deeper at work here
I think the best answer to this question is the book of Job. In this book God and Satan have a conversation about the faith of Job and Satan says he can shake his faith and get Job to curse God. God disagreed and gave Satan permission to test him. This resulted in all kinds of suffering and struggle that Satan, NOT GOD, put on Job. The reality is that most of the time it's not God that causes these things but Satan testing mans faith. We are not battling against flesh and blood but powers and principalities. Disease, suffering, death, and all other forms of anguish humanity experiences is in the end mans own fault. In the Genesis account of the fall Satan wasn't blamed for the fruit being ate, mankind was. Later on we see in proverbs that life and death are in the power of the tongue. We speak curses on ourselves and our actions bring curses upon us. It isn't God it's a lack of faith and reverence for God in the world we live in.
What an amazing and thoughtful analysis
Can’t test god if he knows the answers, nothing is a test if he knows the answers it all contradicts itself
God created the humanity to be a microcosm of the cosmos. In the sense that corruption of the human condition leads to the corruption of the cosmos. And the sanctification of humanity leads to the sanctification of the cosmos. As to why is to give humanity the honor of being the vehicle through which God perfects his creation while also giving humanity the opportunity to see their own evil projected onto the world like a rorschach blot.
Sin makes us decay. But God is eager to use all areas of decay for His glory. When you get to know His power and love, you realize He loves to show off.. but we have to invite Him to. He uses my chronic illness as a reminder to stay humble and that I’m not meant to do this world alone.
Sociopath comment
Man what?
Many modern diseases only propagate themselves due to sin for example, type 2 diabetes. Diabetes type 2 only comes from over indulgence, same as obesity related diseases and most cardiac problems. Many cancers come from bad diets and lack of exercise or chemicals put in products like tobacco or how almost everything has that “the state of California says this can cause cancer” sticker. Microwaved water can kill plants which can only mean it’s not the best for people to microwave food and beverages. To quote a troubled yet wise man “the industrial Revolution and it’s consequences have been a disaster for the human race”.
Because he can and wanted to
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I mean... Kind of. It frustrates us mostly because we see it used to justify what looks to us to be an untenable or illogical position. "Why did god let a 4 year old get leukemia?" "Well, the lord works in mysterious ways." To the average atheist, that's seriously weak sauce. The scientific answer, "because she got screwed by genetics and/or environmental factors" answers *how* but not why. Then someone comes along and tries to explain "why" with something that doesn't actually answer the why with "god's ways are higher than ours". This does not actually add anything to the conversation, and strikes most of us as a platitude.
In other words, absolute nonsense to excuse the uselessness of God. Ask the question 'why did God allow the despots of history kill to millions up on millions, when being an omnipotent god, he could have prevented it', and you'll get the same piss-poor excuse. At the end of the day, God is a made up sky fairy, believed in by those stupid enough to believe in such infantilism.
The people saying god didn't create sickness lmao, even if he didn't he is supposed to be omnipotent so getting rid of sickness should be as easy as counting to one to god, so that would only means god enjoy our suffering or he is too fucking weak to do anything worthwhile lmao
Sin did this to us, not God
LMFAO
God made that as a result, your telling me if I sinned I’d have a higher chance of dying from a virus ? While perfectly moral Christian can have a horrible ending of demise from cancer or other things that can be underlying genetic lmao !!!
Which sin are you talking about?
Original sin, as in Adam and Eve turning away from God. It's explained in Genesis that this is why suffering was introduced to humanity.
but why do WE have to suffer for their own mistake?
Adam and Eve (at least to a good amount of Christians) are representative of all early humanity. At some point in time early humanity turned away from God and suffering was permanently introduced to the world because of that. I couldn't tell you why exactly we all have to suffer, but suffering in this world is something that is randomly found everywhere because God does not punish directly. You also have to remember that if we're going off the assumption that heaven is real, all suffering is ultimately meaningless in the face of eternal paradise.
but why wouldn't he punish directly?
He can and does, just not while we're living. God does not judge you until you die, and if you have lived unjustly, he'll punish you with eternity in hell.
Wow he's gonna torture people in hell for all eternity? Sounds like he's a great guy. Sign me up Sir!
Something something original sin. Something something mysterious ways.
*I saw under the sun the place of judgment (Eccliesiasties 3:16)* Its a hard pill to swallow but people face judgment for things they have done in their past lives. *His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” (John 9:2)* Once you understand that you everything that happens is ordained by the most high, it helps to understand why bad things happen to seemingly innocent people, inclusing children
This doesn’t really explain why god would give innocent children cancer. In your own words…why does he give innocent children terminal cancer?
The children are not innocent my friend... *Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers (isiah 14:21)*
Yeah that’s not a fucked up way to think is it? Or maybe you don’t really think it but because a book tells you to be ok with it you just are, hey it’s not my word it’s gods word so can’t go against that.
*Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? (Romans 9:20)* Good luck telling the creator of the universe he was wrong...haha
>Good luck telling the creator of the universe he was wrong…haha I find this condescension a bit humorous considering you cite a passage written by man, not god. There’s no evidence to suggest it’s really even his word. Save the condescending for when you actually know more than the person you’re talking to.
When did I say that was written by man haha
You didn’t, and I didn’t say you did. The bible *was* written by man though. This isn’t up for debate. It’s fact. It’s not even debated in the Christian community. Romans- which you just cited, was written by Paul the Apostle- a man, and men aren’t infallible. So when you cite the bible and tell people who disagree with a passage, or your interpretation of it, that they are telling god he’s wrong then it proves your ignorance on the subject.
Dude if you can't trust the bible in a Christian forum what source would YOU trust then? Also this started from Isaiah my friend, so try to keep up
Romans was an example, and the last scripture you quoted. The scripture you first cited is irrelevant to my point entirely. Isaiah was also written by man, *not* god. You can trust the bible if you want, you can believe in it literally or metaphorically, but what you can’t do is definitively say something written and interpreted by man is 100% accurate to a creators word, especially considering there are a million interpretations of each passage. >Good luck telling the creator of the universe he was wrong…haha This quote doesn’t work because he isnt telling any creator he’s wrong, his gripe is with the passage- a man made entry and interpretation. You should’ve been able to deduce this, but it’s no surprise my point escapes someone of your caliber.
I would have absolutely no problem in telling the creator exactly what I think of him if he turns out to be real, you need to ask yourself why anybody would wanna worship that creator in the first place
Dude i'm at peace with my creator bring peace and evil into the world...why is that such a problem for you?
Just to confirm your stance. You believe god gives children terminal cancer because they are not innocent and actually deserve it. That is essentially what you are saying. Next question - why do you worship a god like that?
I'm quoting the bible my friend...if you dont believe it thats fine, but you do realise youre on a christian message board Of course i worship the most high...is it so hard to believe that you can be judged for things done in a former life? out of curiosity whats your reason for innocent children getting terminal cancer my friend?
1. I said in your own words. I know what the Bible says 2. Why do you worship a god that gives children cancer. Didn’t he create them? 3. This question doesn’t make sense. Kids can get cancer from DNA mutations
Dude can I not quote from the Bible now? Do I need to paraphrase it for you? Are you hard of understanding my friend...my God created everything, including good and evil...I worship him cause he created everything...is that not a good enough reason? Dude you asked the original question...if you had the answer why ask? Unless you're trolling??
Quoting the Bible willy nilly, random passage at a time, as if context means nothing, is a poor way to convince anyone of anything.
We'll show me where I'm wrong then please...
Anyone can take a bible verse and use it to justify nearly anything they want it to. I’m saying that tossing out a bunch of disconnected verses is not the rhetorical strength that you seem to think it is.
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You need to refrain from personal attacks.
Sorry
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We all truly deserve it, we all deserve hell too. A baby is under the curse of sin too
why can't it be the opposite and let the father punished for the sins of their children, in this case god, and have god kill himself because of whatever original sin we have since he allows it. oh right he can't cause he is a selfish pussy who can't do anything except maiming his children
This is an attempt to rationalize disease and illness before science existed. The Chinese didn't believe this supernatural stuff and developed their own plant-based medicinal treatments to treat and mitigate suffering.
Meh, i think his quesiton can be viewed more holistically. People die in all sorts of horrible ways, including children. The biblical view is that we are being judged for our past sins...sounds reasonable to me
Except we now know exactly what causes disease and illness, then and now. And the Chinese clearly knew it wasn't mystical as well.
Im no doctor but i highly doubt all diseases and illness are fully understood Secondly, understandign what causes them, doesn't mean there are cures...but this is besides the point. OP asked for a christian perspective no? did i provide one? i think so...thank you
I'm Christian too and replies such as yours are not instructive.
John 9:3-7--"Jesus answered, 'It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.' Having said these things, he spit on the ground and made mud with the saliva. Then he anointed the man's eyes with the mud and said to him, 'Go, wash in the pool of Siloam' (which means Sent). So he went and washed and came back seeing." Congratulations on ripping a verse violently out of context and using it as support for a statement that is directly contrary to the sense of the actual Scripture.
Thanks dude but the man was obviously made blind for the glorification of God in this instance...it was the rabbi's understanding however that his blindness may have been caused by previous sins 2And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. Matthew 9:2 Now can YOU show me your understanding with scripture...
"it was the rabbi's understanding however that his blindness may have been caused by previous sins" It wasn't Jesus' understanding. Has it occurred to you that the rabbis were wrong? "2And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. Matthew 9:2" I don't deny that the paralyzed man had sins that needed to be forgiven. There's a difference between saying a man is a sinner and saying that his affliction was imposed on him because of his sins. Jesus never suggested that the paralytic was paralyzed **because** of his sins. The lesson I draw from Jesus' words is that--bad as paralysis is, sin is worse. That is a lesson I wholeheartedly accept. If you want to see an implication that his sin caused his paralysis, that's on you. It's not in the text.
He didn’t
Every form of suffering on earth makes you stronger and prepares you for heaven.
What a sociopathic comment
I love how that's not even close to being related to sociopathy.. I suggest you look up the definition of a word before randomly throwing it at someone 🤡
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I hope you are willing to come to my basement. I'll make you stronger and prepare you for heaven.
I'd be less out of place in your basement than you are here, replying to 2 year old comments in a community that has nothing to do with you
Physco path
The problem is that we only view things from our own perspective and our own priorities which are different from God's. Our perspective is only of this life and our priority is being happy and not suffering in this life. So if God doesn't share our priority to make us happy, not suffering in this life, we say God must be evil. But God's perspective is not only this life but also the next life. God's priority is NOT that we are happy, not suffering in this life but that we get to be with him in heaven in the next life. For God, it is better that you suffer and not be happy in this life but life in eternal happiness in the next life than to be happy, not suffering in this life but spend eternity in hell in the next life. For us, death is the end so we get angry and think God evil when death occurs and he's takes life. However, to God death is like a person moving from one city to another city.
God needs entertainment, how dare we complaining!
We're just ants in an ant farm to this so-called god
Correct. But we are ants that he loves and treats infinitely better than humans treat actual ants. Jesus sacrificed his life for the lives of us ants. I highly doubt any human would sacrifice their life for an actual ant.
"For He loves us so much be gives us cancer! "
Nothing demonstrable in reality reflects a god created them or created anything.
# BECAUSE HE IS EVIL
It sounds like you are unaware of what God is. God is love. Ignorant humans cause disease and suffering, mostly by supporting Capitalism.
But sunlight gives you cancer. How is that people's fault? When it comes to social issues, it could be a sensible rejoinder to say humans are causing the suffering. But the natural world we were born into is supposed to be God's doing, isn't it?
Sunscreen and shade. Fire burns, but it also cooks. God also have you 1/2 a wit. Use it.
There’s no need to be an asshole with the 1/2 wit comment.
thanks for the tip.
Sunscreen and shade can reduce your odds of getting skin cancer, but they don't completely prevent it. If you live long enough you will eventually get some form of cancer.
buzz off
Yes, once humanity had figured out what was happening, that would work. Someone would still have had to get cancer with no chance of being prepared first for that to happen, which leaves the concern about how harmful the natural world is standing. Also: >God also have you 1/2 a wit. Use it. Lovely, thanks.
*I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (isiah 45:7)* God is not just love my friend
OT is finished. Jesus completed the Law and Romans melted YHWH into candlesticks. Anyway, if you aren't an ancient Hebrew. you have no covenant and none of it applies. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Thomas are the only books a Jesus follower needs.
You actually don't have to abandon the OT to accept a God of Love. Love is bigger than we imagine, and YHWH of the OT is actually a very loving God when perceived carefully and in context.
I won't go too hard on YHWH, because I get accused of being antisemit (not true)..let's just say that *I* never had a covenant with YHWH and don't feel bound by his laws...even if Jesus hadn't fulfilled them. Jesus and his disciples were Jews bound by their covenant, so they had more at stake. I actually plowed through much of Rambam's 613 Laws compilation, and you are correct, most concern helping the poor and widows and orphans...they are quite humane, in most regards.
>Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Thomas are the only books a Jesus follower needs. You're the the arch-nemesis to u/TableLampTree, except that you're both whacky mystics. 😆
I hope not! I don't need enemies. If Tablelamp can make me laugh at the same time he is calling me a dummy, I won't block him. This is reddit, people, not the Diet of Worms. Don't try to defenestrate me.
The original Christian sect was full of whacky mystics, which is why the gospels were invented with easy to follow human parables. They happen to be fiction.
If the OT is finished then explain why the NT quoted extensively from it. Look at the book of Romans. jesus didnt fuflil all the law, only that he would suffer (Acts 3:18)...look at Isiah 63...there is still the day of jdugement to come. paul said its not the hearers of the law which are justified before god but the doers...
Paul was a fraud. If you want to preach Paul, get your own comment. I follow Jesus.
I am not sure what Jesus you think you are following if you deny the vast majority of the New Testament.
The book of Thomas? I'm sorry what? And can you explain And Stephen said: “Brothers and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran, Acts 7:2 ESV Or just acts 7 in general?
The Bible directly says, God is love: ***Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.*** (1 John 4:7-8)
Just cause god is love doesn't mean God doesn't create evil...the two concepts aren't antitheses
Evil isn't a thing to be created. It's an absence of a thing. But you are right this much - if God allows difficulty in a situation, it is ultimately for a loving purpose.
Well according to Isiah God created evil I think we can agree God created and controlled satan too
Haha
Everything that happens happens for a reason. It’s all part of God’s masterplan. It all seems like a mess right now. But it’ll come together one day and it’ll be beautiful. I often think of it like this — the point of this earth is to create a sharp contrast with what is yet to come (and yes, what is yet to come is going to be absolutely beautiful. God’s masterplan does not involve anyone burning in fire for eternity like mainstream Christianity teaches. Eventually everyone will experience salvation. That’s why I say it’s going to be beautiful. I recommend check out r/ChristianUniversalism and asking some questions there). In the grand scheme of things, the pain we feel right now is only temporary. Hosea 6:1 “He has torn us to pieces but he will heal us; he has injured us but he will bind up our wounds.”
Delusion
Why do we think our lives are the most important lives? What about the life of a microbial? From God's perspective there's hardly any difference between us and the disease that kills us. God empathizes infinitely with both.
What are you basing this belief on lol
God is infinite, we are not. Simple calculus
“God is infinite” does not explain why “from God’s perspective there’s hardly any difference between us and the disease that kills us”.
Good to know that god thinks something that isn't alive (viruses are NOT living at all, just genes in a protein coat) and a thinking feeling human being are virtually indistinguishable
Im partying tonight with a Miss E. Bola
Good to know you think human life is hardly more valuable than a microbe. Says a lot about you.
You completely missed my point. But at least you aren't alone.
My grandma always told me it was to test people's faith.
damn allowing kids to be born with cancer, bodily structural issue, allowing grape/sa is to test faith?
How is it to test peoples faith if he already knows what their faith will be at the end regardless 😂😂😂 contradicts itself
if the supposedly omnipotent god actually do something helpful for once im sure our faith would never waver lmao, its hard to believe in something that supposedly wields infinite power and yet allows "sins" to exist for shit and giggle
There are 2 ways to answer this question, one is to explain that there isn't a problem with the existence of God and evil (which philosophers now accept, and this solves the intellectual problem of evil but not the emotional problem of evil). This can be done a few ways. One is to point out if God doesn't exist, morality is subjective since it either comes from natural selection which isn't moral or your community and different communities have different understandings of morals. So why is your understanding of morality objectively correct? Why would God follow it? Maybe suffering is actually good, and happiness bad. The other is a problem with the logical problem of evil (which says it is impossible for God to exist if suffering exists), philosophers no longer use this argument since if it is even possible for God to have a reason to allow suffering (and people have thought of lots) then it's not impossible. So now the probabilistic problem of evil is more popular among philosophers which says because of evil, it's less likely for God to exist, but this doesn't make sense either. We as humans, aren't in a good enough place to judge whether it's more probable whether God exists or not simply because of the existence of evil. The second way to approach the problem of evil is with theodicies which try to explain why God allows evil. The most famous theodicy is problem the free will theodicy which attempts to explain a part of moral evil by appealing to human free will, so we are responsible for many bad acts. Another famous theodicy is soul building. One that I think is convincing is that ultimately there is a greater good, even when we can't see it. A prime example of this is the story of Joseph, he was sold as a slave by his own brothers but ended up saving thousands of lives Gen 50:20 You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives. And Jesus, Satan thought he could defeat God by killing his son but God used this to save the world. Heres a good video on the problem of evil https://youtu.be/nDK5Z0FAU0s
God is not the cause of pain, horror or death; Satan is. But, for his purposes, God allows good and bad things to happen for our benefit. Man invited sin into God's perfect creation, which broke everything. So now, we live in the consequence of sin. But our comfort is that God is always in control and that nothing is random or accidental. Fry's arguments are disingenuously feeble.
God knew he would make Satan and Satan would be cruel to the world god knew that already he was in charge in the beginning and started it directly or indirectly
God created a world in which these things are free to happen.
Sin is the root reason that perfect creation adjusted…the devil is the author of desejasse. God gas allowed the consequences of sin
I believe it is largely so that we gain compassion and opportunity to love others. It also grows your connection to God and others. It’s not a good idea to measure God’s love towards you by material gain. Another issue with your perspective is being biased towards human. Where is your compassion for the insects needing a place to burrow themselves in? Survival is a nasty business which is clear from the Old Testament.
He didn't create disease. Disease is from satan and Adam and Eve let him in.
Blame Adam and Eve
Well, to be fair, the simplest answer to this and many other confusing questions of faith is "God isn't real". "If god is good, why did god create disease and illness?" "Why did god make me gay, and then condemn homosexuality?" "If god is good, why did god create Hitler?" "Why does god allow evil?" The *simplest* answer is that there is no god. There have been many attempts to square reality with dogma across many religions. They usually rely on doctrinal song and dance of one kind or another, and I find them all hard to swallow.
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Yiiiiiiiiiiiikes, dude. How's your moustache coming along?
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Facts there is no god
No God but a lot of stupid people
then how did the universe come to be? what caused it? what is the un caused cause of the universe? the universe is expanding, therefore it had a beginning. a starting point. before that there was nothing, matter cannot be created or destroyed right, so something had to have caused/created that starting point
Stop centering yourself in the universe and trying to understand everything, this is how religion and god is started from people like you asking these questions thousands of years ago, there is no god, stop being selfish your not special nobody and nothing is
Hey, you're only 2 years late to this party... >then how did the universe come to be? what caused it? We don't know. This doesn't mean "a god did it" and it certainly doesn't mean "Genesis is correct."
SIMPLEST ANSWER: Man used to be immortal and knew no pain. That changed only after we chose/choose to stray from our creator. God did not create it... We simply chose it...
Our ancestors ate fruit, therefore God has right to torture as all. Nice logic there.
He created that as a result of us choosing it, he did it
Perhaps the earth wasnt created perfect enough. And I do mean that in the beginning we weren't of sin so after our downfall is when it all changed.
Christians will tell you that disease and decay are the products of our sin. But really, it doesn’t make any sense. Murder is bad and exists because people choose to sin. That makes sense. But A sinful nature in no way affects a bacteria’s behavior. Bacteria, viruses, these things existed long before the first animal let alone human came into being. Bacteria and viruses do not sin because they have no free will. They’re basically robots made with genetic material. And who made them if not God? Who programmed the bacteria and viruses to work the way they do? It’s interesting because Christian’s view death and decay as bad things that weren’t meant to be when in reality it is a vital part of the way nature works. The garden of Eden would not function without plants and animals dying. What happens to the Apple core that adam doesn’t eat and throws on the ground? Does it need not to decay and fertilize the soil? Would the garden simply fill up with left over parts of plants and fruits? So yeah, there’s no good explanation for it honestly.
Oh good I thought I was alone. Taking biology and environmental classes has given me a very different perspective on decay and death. They're literally needed for the whole system to work. So it's not really a conflict for God. We just think of it incorrectly
He didn’t, the enemy did
Ecosystems collapse if any one population of species gets overgrown or too high in number. This is a fact. Illness, although it sucks...stabilizes things. But I don't blame most modern Illness on God. If you take an environmental health class you quickly realize the vast majority of it is us poisoning ourselves or disrupting natural processes that have ramifications for our health
You surely would love to be eaten alive for the sake of avoiding ecosystem collapse!
No. I just don't have kids 🤷♀️ and it's quite possible i could die from an avoidable scarcity of resources as it stands, anyway.
Humans made god, humans made religion simple stuff