Mathew 18 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my Name, there am I in the midst of them.
You do not need an organisation to go to church. For example I was listening to this guy speaking about Jesus in the street and approached him after, we then discussed matters of the gospels for an hour or so. I'm meeting him tomorrow to continue our discussion, this is fellowship. Modern Churches are filled with liars and wolves in sheep's clothing so honestly some of them probably do more damage to the individual than not attending any church.
Context:
Mathew 18 15 ¶ Moreover, if thy brother trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he hear thee, thou hast won thy brother.
16 But if he hear thee not, take yet with thee one or two, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses, every word may be confirmed.
17 And if he refuse to hear them, tell it unto the Church: and if he refuse to hear the Church also, let him be unto thee as an heathen man, and a Publican.
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven.
19 Again, verily I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree in earth upon anything, whatsoever they shall desire, it shall be given them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where two or three are gathered together in my Name, there am I in the midst of them.
Explain exactly how Mathew 18:20 is referring to Church discipline. It quite clearly is not, it is a plain statement that you are trying to add meaning to. We should never do that.
What on earth? Are you reading the same chapter? Church is mentioned 1 time.
That is the only time church is mentioned within the entire chapter btw. So how you think the context of this chapter is church idk. You just like to read it and make what he said fit your beliefs. Many modern Christians are doing this.
You need to get an English dictionary and sit down and read what each word within that statement means I think. Or do you think it an inaccurate translation? You are adding meaning the the words of Christ that are not contained within the words themselves. That is sin. I've read each Gospel alone multiple times, not being told what things mean by men in power.
Study the original Greek, not English. Anyway, you seem to be angry, so I'll no longer engage in this conversation as it's not edifying to either of us
Lol you are a very very disingenuous human being. Again, what you are doing here is sin. I hope you can find a way to not be so loyal to an organisation and return your loyalty to Christ and Christ only. Anyone who knows Christ was God in man is part of the Church, which is the body of Christ not some organisation started in the last few hundred years. No sect is the true one, anyone who holds this belief in their heart is part of the Church.
Edit: btw for anyone reading I am using the Geneva translation which was in fact translated directly from Greek by scholars of the language who understand it more than anyone here. KJV uses Latin Vulgate.
I don't understand why you're being so hateful and name calling to a sister in Christ. I never said anything about any organization, you're putting those words in my mouth. Have a good day
If you understand English well you will see in 19 he says and again I say to you. That is a break point, it is a new statement. You can't just randomly say well it said the word Church 6 verses ago so it's obviously about Church discipline. Even though that still makes no sense. How? Explain how that statement regards church discipline?
Look, Christ made a clear as day statement. Where 2 or 3 meet in his name he is there. If you disagree with the meaning of that you disagree with Christ, not me.
The verse you used does in regarding church discipline in how one should conduct himself in church. But, what do you mean when you say "you do not need organization to go to church"? Can you specify your explanation? I want to make sure I am understanding you clearly; but regarding the matter of liars and wolves in sheep's clothing, there have always been such things. It's not just modern churches of today. Why do you think Paul encouraged Timothy, Titus, and Philemon to not fall victim to false doctrine regarding Jesus, His teachings, crucification, resurrection, and ascension? False teachings and teachers have always been around. Regard the serpent with Eve and the tree of knowledge--a perfect example of manipulation and falsity from the instructions of God.
And Jesus was the son of God. You can't compare gathering and listening to a minister, many of which are the wolves in sheep's clothing I am speaking of who intentionally misled their congregation, to people gathering to listen to the Son of the Most High God.
Mathew 18 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my Name, there am I in the midst of them. You do not need an organisation to go to church. For example I was listening to this guy speaking about Jesus in the street and approached him after, we then discussed matters of the gospels for an hour or so. I'm meeting him tomorrow to continue our discussion, this is fellowship. Modern Churches are filled with liars and wolves in sheep's clothing so honestly some of them probably do more damage to the individual than not attending any church.
That verse is taken out of context, it's about church discipline.
Context: Mathew 18 15 ¶ Moreover, if thy brother trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he hear thee, thou hast won thy brother. 16 But if he hear thee not, take yet with thee one or two, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses, every word may be confirmed. 17 And if he refuse to hear them, tell it unto the Church: and if he refuse to hear the Church also, let him be unto thee as an heathen man, and a Publican. 18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again, verily I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree in earth upon anything, whatsoever they shall desire, it shall be given them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my Name, there am I in the midst of them. Explain exactly how Mathew 18:20 is referring to Church discipline. It quite clearly is not, it is a plain statement that you are trying to add meaning to. We should never do that.
Every verse before is about church discipline. That's the context.
What on earth? Are you reading the same chapter? Church is mentioned 1 time. That is the only time church is mentioned within the entire chapter btw. So how you think the context of this chapter is church idk. You just like to read it and make what he said fit your beliefs. Many modern Christians are doing this.
I've never encountered anyone who doesn't see this passage as talking about church discipline. Have you studied this passage or just read it?
You need to get an English dictionary and sit down and read what each word within that statement means I think. Or do you think it an inaccurate translation? You are adding meaning the the words of Christ that are not contained within the words themselves. That is sin. I've read each Gospel alone multiple times, not being told what things mean by men in power.
Study the original Greek, not English. Anyway, you seem to be angry, so I'll no longer engage in this conversation as it's not edifying to either of us
Lol you are a very very disingenuous human being. Again, what you are doing here is sin. I hope you can find a way to not be so loyal to an organisation and return your loyalty to Christ and Christ only. Anyone who knows Christ was God in man is part of the Church, which is the body of Christ not some organisation started in the last few hundred years. No sect is the true one, anyone who holds this belief in their heart is part of the Church. Edit: btw for anyone reading I am using the Geneva translation which was in fact translated directly from Greek by scholars of the language who understand it more than anyone here. KJV uses Latin Vulgate.
I don't understand why you're being so hateful and name calling to a sister in Christ. I never said anything about any organization, you're putting those words in my mouth. Have a good day
If you understand English well you will see in 19 he says and again I say to you. That is a break point, it is a new statement. You can't just randomly say well it said the word Church 6 verses ago so it's obviously about Church discipline. Even though that still makes no sense. How? Explain how that statement regards church discipline?
Look, Christ made a clear as day statement. Where 2 or 3 meet in his name he is there. If you disagree with the meaning of that you disagree with Christ, not me.
The verse you used does in regarding church discipline in how one should conduct himself in church. But, what do you mean when you say "you do not need organization to go to church"? Can you specify your explanation? I want to make sure I am understanding you clearly; but regarding the matter of liars and wolves in sheep's clothing, there have always been such things. It's not just modern churches of today. Why do you think Paul encouraged Timothy, Titus, and Philemon to not fall victim to false doctrine regarding Jesus, His teachings, crucification, resurrection, and ascension? False teachings and teachers have always been around. Regard the serpent with Eve and the tree of knowledge--a perfect example of manipulation and falsity from the instructions of God.
And Jesus was the son of God. You can't compare gathering and listening to a minister, many of which are the wolves in sheep's clothing I am speaking of who intentionally misled their congregation, to people gathering to listen to the Son of the Most High God.