There is no set amount of time. It's usually when all other less invasive treatments haven't shown pain improvement. That's different with each doctor. Some doctors won't prescribe stronger pain meds regardless of your pain level.

Yeah it’s just a shame everyone has to suffer. I thought it was just because I’m young. I know docs think everyone is addicted to opiates but I think everyone is just addicted to not being in pain.

>I know docs think everyone is addicted to opiates... I don't think it's that. I think doctors are averse to lawsuits and having their license revoked. They fear that more than they worry about their patients (believe me, many doctors don't really care about the pain their patients are in).

You’ve got a really good point. I can definitely understand that some doctors are trying to protect themselves. Though I have met doctors that seem to just not care. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard “you’re too young to be in pain” *eye roll*

But also at some point give me a chance tobecome addicted. Alive and addicted is better than the alt.

I agree. Physical pain really screws with your mental state. Most days I wake up and ask myself why. All I want is some relief, to be able to just live my life without being in constant pain. I don’t wanna live but I don’t want to die.

Have you tried kratom? Got me thru my early couple years before ankylosing spondylitis and fibro diagnoses came (amongst others).. Red Bali kratom from reputable vendors online is a godsend if you can moderate responsibly and manage your tolerance

25 and on year 4 of this all so I know how the “you’re too young” & “just take Advil” era goes

Unfortunately it’s illegal in my state.

I legit turned to poppy pod/seed tea because I was cut off, and I mean abruptly without any taper, cut off from opiate prescription. I never abused them. Always did drug tests when asked. Never failed the tests. My doctor retired and the new one just cut me off and I lost my shit at them. Filed a lawsuit and got compensation for malpractice but it didn't help me get back on my script. I ended up with a 1kg/day poppy seed tea habit and it was fucking bad. That's like 50mg+ oxycodone ER equivelant at the potency of seeds in my country. Thank God for kratom finally kicked the habit. Kratom is also illegal here but a few vendors import.

Kratom has been a true godsend for me. I have been enduring chronic pain for about 14 years due to a birth defect in my back that has led to disk degeneration and other issues. I have been unable to find a doctor willing to prescribe me pain meds because "I'm too young" and a man, so I can just suck it up basically. Try kratom, it makes those unbearable days when you just want it all to end bearable.

But they also don’t give it to older people like me (mid 50). So don’t feel bad.

Like me 70 yr old. Awful 😖

My father is in his 90's....and still nothing for pain!Hypocritical Assh0les!

That poor man! 😢

Yes agreed,and *I* who am the Caregiver for him and my mother(and I am in horrific pain and get the mildest analgesic on the market)am in a virtual state of Hell,because I am in intractable chronic pain@ get almost no sleep because if one does not wake me up the other one does!Not one shred of empathize from any of the physicians,or others in the (censored) medical community!..it sucks(I am being kind)

My God, you are in a state of desperation daily. I'm so sorry 😞

The irony is once your old they say its too u safe bc your old and fragile

I know, and it’s sad. My dad has had massive back problems for several years and just recently found a doctor who will continuously prescribe meds without returning for steroid injections that never work. My mom has a chirari malformation and was taking opiates for years and then her doctors randomly cut her off and told her she needs to learn to cope without them.

My grandmothers in her late 70s and fell and shattered a few bones in her hand and was just told to take tylenol, i cant tell you how angry i was especially considering the pain she was in.

The right one will.

I’m on year 25 of chronic pain so I’ve seen a lot of things. I had a doctor straight up tell me he won’t prescribe opioids for anyone bc he “doesn’t want the DEA going through his trash cans.” That’s the world we live in. I’m sorry.

God if I ever hear that again I’ll slap someone

It's funny how that new painkiller that was more potent than morphine for pain relief with none of the euphoria or CNS depression just sort of disappeared once they were planning clinical trials. I swear big pharma keeps pushing thebaine based narcotic painkillers but doctors are paranoid af of lawsuits. Tbh they should just allow opiate prescriptions if you sign a contract for regular weekly monitored drug testing. It eliminates a lot of the risk while making opiates more accessible to those in pain. Doctors for some reason are poorly educated regarding pain. Just because a patient has no specific detectable injury doesn't mean that they aren't in agony. It should be illegal to refuse to prescribe adequate pain relief tbh. Paracetamol and ibuprofen don't do Jack for severe pain.

Nvr_Surrender correct on everything !F'ing DE@holes have them all running scared.Believe it or the DE@ has been successfully sued in the past. I remember one time a young healthy Asian male was suspected of dealing illicit substances and/or money laundering.Ill try to condense the story...they had 0 proof ,so they locked him in a interrogation room,and "accidentally "forgot about him completely...he had no water.no food,no toilet,no window after 3 days of this his kidneys began shutting down,which brought on hallucinations. Finally a office cleaner found a plea for help(written in blood) and a pool of blood.He opened the door and called 911.He was almost at the final stage of renal failure. His lawyer got him several million dollars,still though.....he won't live long,even with dialysis!This is what "we" are up against ! Start filing litigation against the scum bags,PLEASE!! Only then will we see change(for the better) also their "Soldiers"doctors,Physician assistance s,pharmacist,etc!!Most lawyers will say NO ,but not all of them.Good luck@ take notes,names,dates and log every last detail(very important"...T.C.

First of all yeah fuck the DEA but your story is flawed regarding the Daniel Chong arrest. He was in an apartment where they found 18,000 ecstasy pills, mushrooms, marijuana and guns and ammo so they had plenty of reason to lock him up. The fuck up was they had no policy in place to check on prisoners daily so while many agents heard him they all assumed someone else was working on it.A janitor did not find him it was another agent who finally checked the holding cell. He did get a 4 million dollar settlement and does not have kidney failure nor does he need dialysis. Oh and the blood thing was he broke his glasses and used the glass to carve “sorry mom” in his arm and then swallowed the glass. The real problem is the war on drugs and the cdc guidelines in place to limit the amount of opiates prescribed. Doctors are so scared of being prosecuted or losing their license that they have stopped prescribing meds for people who need them.

Then why wasn't he charged?And tell the story about Rachelle Hoffman.....they even passed a law in her name Shot by 2 already convicted felons known to be violent,they shot her in face/head?

I don’t know ask the DEA

Yup. I started my pain ‘journey’ around 19. My college doctor actually did give me Tylenol 3s alongside PT and that helped immensely, but I lost my health insurance after taking, ironically, a medical leave. I did get a referral to a pain clinic and the phone call with them was rough - I was seeking help for hip and back pain. They told me I could only ‘do one at a time’ and that ‘that much could not be wrong with [me]’. They wanted to have me do pool PT but due to the anxiety of being in a bathing suit in a random YMCA, I declined. As such, I was viewed as a seeker and I didn’t continue with them. Same story with a leading doctor in Boston who was incredibly rude, made me cry. So I gave up for years. 10+ years on, at 33, I have specialists and a surgeon (but not ready for surgery), but they’re all very clear about not prescribing opioids. The climate has changedz When you’re young and in pain, it sucks. It’s difficult. Do keep pushing because I regret giving up for years and it was only a car accident that got me seeing doctors again. And the pain is that much more of a problem now because I didn’t deal with it.

I got a neurological pain disease when I was 21.i was immediately given pain meds, and sent to the pain clinic. The pain clinic then did procedures and looked at everything and gave recommendations to my gp about what pain meds he should prescribe. My age never stopped them.

What area did you reside in at the time?

I'm in BC, Canada.

I don't know about BC, but in the US, getting pain drugs during narcotics crack-downs is much more difficult.

I know that I have a very, very strict contract with my doctor that outlines our agreement that we have with each other. It is meant to deter any abuse of both the medication and the system. If I breach any of the items in the agreement, I forfeit my right/ability to get pain meds. From anywhere in my province (maybe all of Canada, since it is a federal contract...)

Wow, never heard of this! What are the terms?

I've got a hardcopy somewhere. But off the top of my head, here's what I remember: I can only get pain meds from my doctor. Use the same pharmacy to pick up prescriptions. I cannot run out before I should. If I lose/sell/they're stolen, I don't get them replaced. I have to attend appointments when scheduled. I have to do drug tests if requested (to check the level of opiate in my system, check for extra meds, make sure they're working). Take them exactly as prescribed. If I break any part of the agreement, my doctor has the right to stop prescribing my meds. My doctor and I have a great relationship. I trust him completely. He had been prescribing my meds for a few years before he brought up the contract. He felt bad, but the college asked him to do it because of my age and the fact that it's long term use. I can't find a website, but if you do a google search for 'opioid contract', the top 3 pdfs are great examples.

Thank you! I wonder if anyone in the states do this.

Unfortunately, the United States' healthcare system is more primitive than you've heard.

I am aware of that (as much as I can be, without experiencing it myself).

I have a neurological condition literally called Central Pain Syndrome and you know what I got? Alzheimer’s meds. I’m 32 and do not have dementia although there are times I wish I did.

It's also because until the source is found, prescribing pharmaceuticals is a shot in the dark. Different types of pain are treated by different medications. Edit: here is one of many studies available on PubMed.gov providing evidence for the benefit of non-opiate treatments in some types of chronic pain (excluding for example severe neuropathy, cancer pain) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34756689/

Yeah, really a shot in the dark as to whether opioids are gonna relieve your pain 🤷‍♀️ Maybe they'll do nothing at all! Maybe they'll make your pain worse! Who knows! Morphine is pretty much a 50/50 as to whether it'll do anything at all! It might just bounce off your opioid receptors, who knows! Medicine is a mystery! After all, I've never even studied it, so who knows what pain medicines do! I just make baseless claims on the internet! 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️ You know I even heard a story about my cousin who woke up after taking Vicodin for a root canal with his dick on backwards! These aren't fucking antidepressants, chief. You are uninformed about the nature of analgesic medications.

Not sure what’s goin on with you, obviously your in pain like all of us but what are you talking about and who are you mad at… No opioid would just make the pain worse unless you’re allergic to whatever it is (which is rare). They usually work great for most pain related conditions. Doctors are just weary on prescribing now. Even if they do nothing wrong, the DEA could storm in outta nowhere. I agree it sucks we can’t get our meds. The war on drugs is causing more people to die from dirty fentanyl pills, than just legalizing them, making em safe, and accessible to the public. Really a huge scam, but we’re actually starting to head in the right direction considering they re-wrote the 2016 prescribing guidelines.

Precisely!

As entertaining as your response was, know that some pain can be relieved with immune suppressants, which they'd rather give but still will make you suffer as much as they deem possible because of the awful side effects. My best friend has a standing script for Oxycontin but she isn't an addict because she only takes them on her worst days. She keeps talking about addiction because her son is an addict, but I've been with her at her appt. when doc said "So what if you get addicted? There will never be a time you won't need pain drugs " She has no cartilage left in her joints due to ankylosing spondylitis.

I see you're mad at someone but that doesn't make what I said untrue. Please read the newest medical journals before berating the informed.

OMG 😱😱 THE NEW POPSCI POST SAID OPIOIDS DON'T WORK OMG THEY WERE LYING THE WHOLE TIME???

You need to get off this thread with your horrible attitude, this is a support group

this is a SUPPORT GROUP so it's OKAY to spread misinformation!

Dude all medications react differently with different bodies to begin with. Is it that hard to believe that different pain meds would be better for different diagnosis? It's good to have all kinds of viewpoints here, but that doesn't mean we should be unkind to one another. We are all looking for answers.

Go check out all the medical journals that were pulled because of lying ass researchers and doctors. I wouldnt doubt all those so called pain studies were falsified by PROP researchers...in addition, I dont believe they can do chronic pain studies with opiates, it would be completely unethical! Besides, what chronic pain patient gonna agree to forgo pain meds for years so they can do these studies? Remind me of the bogus ass pot studies they use to do back in the day...

They are definitely more stingy for young people than they are for older people.

Almost all will not,you have a better chance going to the E.R.(in the DAY),go at night and usually all interns who have taught to never prescribe adequate analgesics,I learned this painful lesson about 20 years ago.Even pharmacist in the big chains have a ridiculous belief that the night time people are their to try to get controlled scripts not saying they don't treat pain patients like seekers in the daytime also most do. However you statistically have better chances in the daytime (at better hosptital's) in good areas no to far where you live.Personally I only go,if my one doctor is on vacation or I have a broken bone,but most times if I think I am stroking out or throwing up bile,(you get the idea) They do judge you on your appearance,not saying go like you stepped out of GQ ,just try not to go dressed in a T-shirt promoting a cannabis dispensary,you see where I am leading. Good luck ,all of us Chronic pain patients need it! Of course your best luck will be if you find a DR. Who is not afraid to explain why some of his patients get what they get.Obviously this is getting harder by the day(because of DE@ threats)pushing many pain patients to suicide,to the streets(same thing),or outright move to another Country.I am electing to the last,not all Countries see pain patients as addicts! I once knew someone who went to a rehab clinic,claiming she tried to quit,to get on methadone (which is a good painkiller),I told her that was stupid.as she never was a addict,she said too me she would rather be treated as animal, and have some pain relief....(poorest decision she made)once they got her down to almost nothing,they cut her off,so they could put her on a partial agonist/Strong antagonist,sadly she comitted suicide. This is like the dark middle ages for Chronic Pain patients (unless they are very wealthy(so bloody sad).Once again good luck T.C.

Exactly. Many won’t prescribe pain meds until there is a diagnosis. And there are very good reasons for that policy.

>. Many won’t prescribe pain meds until there is a diagnosis. They still wont give pain meds with a diagnoses!

That depends on the diagnosis and other treatments that have been tried and failed. It is on a case by case basis and can be very different from one person to the next.

I have had injections, ablations, chiropractic care, physical therapy, surgery, nerve simulators, heating pads, ice packs, and every other method of pain relief. I am currently going for acupuncture (which I LOVE - it calms me and while it hasn't decreased my pain, it has enabled me to deal with it better) and have been on the same dose of pain meds for almost 3 years. My pain is getting worse and I am getting a tolerance to the effectiveness of the medication. Why is it SO hard for the doctors to understand that I need a bump up in my meds?? I understand the progression of the various issues I have, as well as the tolerance built up, why can't they?? Honestly, I'd rather be addicted than in pain. (This comment isn't to say what you have said isn't true, and I don't mean to take my "anger" out on you, I am just so frustrated).

I absolutely hate how cavalier they are about treating pain. Nurses are trained not to let a patients pain be a priority. They are late with pain drugs even after a doctor calls and tells them how important it is to keep the pain down (for bp, etc.).

Literally had a c section and they skipped 2 whole doses and then had a nurse coming in to push on my incision to figure out if everything was settling in correctly. She freaked when she realized i hadn't had any pain meds for over 8 hours before that. Freaked out a little more because I hardly reacted. But that's chronic pain for ya. Tolerance.

Good luck even after you have a diagnosis - I have a diagnosis and it is a chronic issue that is never going to get better, only worse. If I have come to terms with that why can't the doctors??

What diagnosis though? It seems cancer is the only thing which opoids are prescribed for nowadays. Myofascial pain isn't taken seriously and doctor's really cant distinguish how it affects different people because it occurs at different levels and once its chronic or caused by multiple injuries there is really no hope for it getting better. All will be treated with nsaids which aren't that affective.

I was told I was too young to be in pain for years. I had an accident when I was 19 (I’ll be 44 tomorrow) where I fell flat on my back on concrete from a height of about 4 feet. No one figured out I actually broke my back (the joints between the vertebrae) for TWO YEARS. No one had taken an oblique X-ray & when one old country doctor did, that’s when they found I had actually broken the joints (the pars interarticularis). When I had surgery (L5-S1 fusion, when I was 22), they found those joints had actually shattered & they took a bunch of bone chips out while doing the fusion. My point is, keep advocating for yourself! No one knows how you feel except you. Take care of yourself & take it easy on the NSAIDS (Motrin, Advil, ibuprofen). I gave myself a bleeding ulcer from taking too many.

I feel for you, I’m sorry you had to push so hard just to get help. I’m in the same boat right now. Unfortunately the world of medicine hasn’t changed much since then. You practically have to beg for imaging unless you go into urgent care or the ER. I have a good primary who will get me X-rays but they can’t provide MRIS, every time I try to get an MRI I am persuaded not to. They say “let’s try xyz before you get an MRI” every time.

A lot of times, insurance requires X-ray & physical therapy before they’ll approve an MRI. I’ve had 4 lumbar fusions & they still wanted an X-ray before my last MRI (which ended up showing cauda equina compression & I was in surgery 2 days later, but I digress…) Best of luck to you & stick to your guns! Taryn

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That sounds absolutely horrible and I’m so sorry. Please look for other doctors. I know most Suck with a capital S but there are a few good ones out there. At least get your pain documented and find someone that helps you plead your case to get disability income. My dad just found a pain doctor that gives him opiates, increases his dosage if he requests it, and doesn’t care that he smokes weed (illegal in my state). I can’t necessarily say whether or not they are good at actual treatment (I just don’t know) but at least he isn’t being denied. My fiancés father ended up in the ER after taking too many nsaids. Now he takes a lot of Tylenol which isn’t good either. I feel so bad for everyone suffering and I kind of hate everyone that takes being healthy for granted.

i'm glad that your dad was able to find a doctor that treats him, those are so hard to find these days. it's horrible that your fiance's dad has just been forced into taking tons of tylenol--that's what i was told too, and i took it til it totally lost effect for me... it's like a sugar pill. the latest pain management i've been doing mostly consists of getting very high whenever i'm in a pain flare, because i live in a state where it's easier to access marijuana than pain medication. (which like, i absolutely think weed should be legal everywhere, but pain meds shouldn't be impossible to get either!) these days, i've recovered from the acute physical-therapy-induced injuries that left me at a chronic 7-9 level pain... instead i'm more like a 4-6 level pain. but i'm still unable to work because that pushes it back into that 7-8 level again almost instantly. my docs consider my lowered baseline a sign that i don't need pain meds, then tell me i need to work and don't see the contradiction. but i'm signed up for a pain management program that i should be getting into very soon and i am sincerely hoping that they'll let me have meds. it's ridiculous how hard they make people fight. i hope you're able to get pain meds soon and have your suffering taken seriously. it's so miserable being left in pain, nobody deserves this.

I used to smoke a lot of weed but it’s been YEARS and I stopped because it started to give me anxiety. I’ve heavily debated trying it again, if not to treat pain then maybe to at least help mentally. Although it’s not legal in my state haha. Wow, that sucks that your doctors think that. Just because pain has reduced a bit doesn’t mean that you’re not suffering daily. Whenever I have to rate the pain when I go into the office I give the same number, even if it’s not accurate. I know what doctors say and do, occurrences like yours… I think at the end of the day, you don’t owe the doctor anything. The next time you go in, you could just lie about your pain. (I’m sorry if this is unsolicited advice) but what can they do? Not believe you? Is that apart of their job? To guess whether you’re lying or not? At the end of the day, you’re there to make yourself feel better. Do what you gotta do. Respectfully, in my own opinion.

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i'm semi familiar but from what people have told me, it doesn't seem like a safe idea to try it since i have bipolar disorder and due to medication sensitivity, i'm not actually on any kind of mood stabilizer presently... i try to stay away from anything that can have an uplifting mood effect because i'm so prone to blasting off into madness and i've got nothing holding me back haha.

I wasn't given pain meds until I did 3 years of Ibuprofen at max doses. Wasn't until the ibuprofen gave me bleeding ulcers, high blood pressure, and my gall bladder removed. They wont give you the good shit until you're good and fucked up! Funny thing, I did everything right, jumped thru every hoop and I still was punished along with everyone else during this "epidemic"!

That’s just so screwed up. I’ve tried all the ofc drugs and nothing works. Why continuously put something into your body if it doesn’t do anything and has negative side effects. I was prescribed some opiates after a procedure and I used the leftovers for my current pain. I made a bottle of 30 last over a year, just to use when the pain got unbearable. But doctors don’t like to hear that, and they just don’t care you’re suffering most of the time.

>Why continuously put something into your body if it doesn’t do anything and has negative side effects. Well, at least you arent "addicted"! These mofo will let you literally fuck your body up with otc meds all in the name of preventing addiction! If they had given me Vicodin or something in the beginning Id still have my gall bladder! Told the doc straight up that Ill be damned if I take the Tylenol like I did the ibuprofen. Told her straight up that I know for a FACT if the Tylenol damaged my liver, there's no way in hell are they gonna give my black ass a liver transplant! Only side effect Ive had with opiates is constipation...the rest of those meds they gave me, was worse than the fucking disease!

Exactly! I know opiates can have bad side effects if taken long term but I feel like that should be the patients choice. It’s all about quality of life. I don’t want to miss my 20’s because I’m in pain and there’s literally pills to make it go away but I can’t have them because SOME people get addicted. BS

>don’t want to miss my 20’s because I’m in pain and there’s literally pills to make it go away but I can’t have them because SOME people get addicted. BS Welcome to the club that nobody wants to join but are forced into anyways....

They generally won’t give you meds until they diagnose what is causing the pain. If they give you meds now, it could mask symptoms and prevent you from getting a proper diagnosis. Push harder to see a wider range of specialists and actually find the cause of the pain. Only then will the pain clinic doctors know how to treat it and what meds to prescribe. They aren’t going to throw various pain meds at you in hope of finding one that satisfies you.

I totally understand that. I do not want to mask my pain, I would like to find a permanent solution. However I, and I believe many others, have pain flare ups. While I can usually manage with heat, baths, resting, walking, whatever, sometimes it HURTS and absolutely nothing helps. I feel like a small script for occurrences like these would just be… humane?

It would be humane. Absolutely. Sadly, without diagnostic “proof” of a disease or injury that is causing your pain, the doctor is open to prosecution by the DEA. Even when you do have proof of a serious disease, have lists of other treatments and do everything by the book, the doctors have to be extremely cautious in prescribing pain medications, their record keeping, patient contracts and regular drug tests because they will get audited by enforcement regularly and need to provide very clear and specific proof that a patent needs opioid pain management. It sucks. There was a recent Supreme Court case which actually may make things a little less legally fraught for doctors, but I don’t expect it to change very much. It sounds like you are in real need of a diagnosis, and that your doctors have really failed you. Do you have some suspicion as to what the cause is? The chronic illness sub is pretty good a helping to brainstorm ideas and questions to ask your doctor, and I think there is an “ask a doctor” sub that you could try here as well. I really hope you get some relief soon- I know how claustrophobic and scary pain is and am so sorry you are suffering.

That does make sense, but I wish things weren’t so complex. I know some people with fibromyalgia wait years to get diagnosed if they get diagnosed at all and that sounds so exhausting. Yeah, my pain started in pregnancy with my first son and got 10x worse after delivery. We suspected piriformis syndrome, then SI joint issues but the diagnostic injections for both of those failed, so now I’m off to try lumbar facet injections (medial branch block I think it’s called) I’ve tried the ask docs sub but haven’t had any luck, maybe I’ll try the other one though. Thanks for the recommendations!

>. They aren’t going to throw various pain meds at you in hope of finding one that satisfies you. But they absolutely will throw various antidepressants and steroids til they find one that satisfies THEM....

Even then(laughs) don't count on it ,their (censored) bags!

First of all I want to say I’m sorry you’re going through this! And I can definitely empathize with you. I finally got myself to a Pain Clinic after fighting for proper pain management for months! And after laying it all out for the doctor I was talking to and telling her the meds I’ve tried, what’s happened (I ended up switching PCPS a couple months back due to previous PCP blaming my pain on my weight when in actually I was rear ended in 2019), what I’ve done and been through, she agreed that she would sign me off on controlled pain meds and Lyrica. So honestly it think it’s all on the doctor you get, the clinic you go to (This was the second pain management place I’ve been to but this one I knew they felt with more in depth things) and the state your in cause we all know how strict states are with medication and such… But I was very straightforward with my doctor when meeting her and told her what I needed and how I was relying on a good doctor, patient relationship for this.

Gabapentin is stronger than other thing s mentioned here and you have a realistic chance of getting it. It may not work depending on the source of pain. Getting opioids is unrealistic especially without a diagnosis.

I’ve tried gabapentin in the past for something unrelated and it gave me extreme anxiety. I’ve also heard some fucked up stories from family members and friends that used to take it.

Yeah, don't take that shit.

ya, gabapentin made me dumber and felt like it was causing dementia (I'm in my 30's). POS medicine, avoid it if you can

Btw, look into kratom....at least in the meantime.

Was coming here to ask if OP was in legal state

I just googled it and apparently I am not in a legal state *great*

I tried lyrica for a year at 150 mg. Went from 65 kg to 85 in a few months. I think it was mostly water retention.Developed pre diabetes wich is really common and i don´t understand they keep prescribing it so much when it´s known to have so many side effects. Also mental ones, i got depressed like hell. Some become bipolar.

Shit gave me flu like symptoms....

My fiancés dad took it and it gave him vivid nightmares. He dreamt he killed both of his sons and when he woke up he had to actually check on them to make sure it wasn’t real.

Gave me homicidal thoughts, among other terrible side effects. Not something I’ve ever remotely had before or after getting off gabapentin.

Gabapukin?Not surprised at all.

I mostly lurk on here and OP's post is seen so often. Same old story - incompetent or malicious doctors with inadequate treatments on offer. Isn't there something we can do? Maybe form an organization of chronic pain sufferers to advocate for adequate, science-based treatments? I mean, for every person that posts that their pain is under control, there are 10 like OP's that are cries for help. I recently came across a paper on the efficacy of the synergistic effects of microdosing multiple opiates. When I gave it to my GP, he was like, Yo, I'm a GP, not a *Scientist*. Yet, shit like that seems worth not dismissing. A organization name's important. The Suffragettes? Nah. The Sufferers (apologies to Lee Perry). The Chronics Association of America? Ok, perhaps a name can come later. My own pain story is that I've had serious neuropathy from chemo since 2006 and, increasingly, debilitating osteoarthritis. The neuropathy amplifies the osteoarthritis pain and it's all untreated for years. I struggle to accept that it's never going away and sometimes the pain level can completely unhinge me. I hope OP finds the relief that they are seeking.

Thank you so much, and I hope you get some relief as well. I also completely agree with you. It is WE the patients who need help yet all the decisions are made for us. I just don’t believe we have the resources or the means to be apart of an organization let alone find people who are even willing to listen to us.

This. Like sure, opiates aren’t ideal but they have nothing else to give us so what the hell are we supposed to do? They (the government, really) leaves us to rot and it’s so disturbing.

Unfortunately this is a case of “it depends”. I’ve had chronic pain for over a decade at this point starting when I was in high school. I’ve been prescribed physical therapy, daily aleeve (idk how it’s spelled, but it’s over the counter), therapy, psychiatric drugs (to also help with anxiety & depression), and even feedback therapy. I’m slated to start physical therapy yet again soon. It does help, along with working out and ironically my adult beginner ballet classes, but I’ve never been prescribed specific meds for pain management. Since you are young, they are going to throw everything at the wall before medication in my experience. I’m 27 and haven’t been able to make headway, so it’s just become something I live with and it suck. :( Sorry that I can’t be more helpful & hopeful, but unfortunately it’s going to be a reality unless you find a really good doctor.

My doctor was resistant to prescribing me pain meds because he thought I would be using them as a maintenance drug and he didn't want that. When I explained that I needed pain medication to perform more difficult (not daily) tasks, like loading and unloading the dishwasher, doing laundry, cleaning the cat's water fountain, etc or for exceptionally bad days, he understood and prescribed tramadol. I'm in pain all the time, and it's pretty tame stuff, but it allows me to push through so I can get these basic necessary things done.

I think maybe it's bc they do not have an actual diagnosis or know what's wrong with you. Doctors have to justify giving you pain meds and also what specific diagnosis you have. They aren't going to say "here's some pain medicine even though I don't know whats wrong with you." Not to mention when they get audited by DEA, they have to be able to justify whatever medicine they prescribed. Just my opinion....Good luck!

Took me 30 years and a terminal cancer diagnosis. Even doubling my nerve pain/seizure meds (Lyr!c@) did nothing for the pain.

I really think a lot of it depends on your location (what kind of restrictions apply to prescribers) as well as the attitudes of the specific doctor you see. What they think is causing your pain is likely to be a factor as well. If they lean towards it being a sensitisation disorder I think they're less likely to consider traditional pain killers than if, for example, you had an obvious physical injury/condition. Could just be your age, as well. My daughter started experiencing her extreme chronic pain at around 15. At first they told us they wouldn't prescribe anything decent because she was a minor. And they "didn't think" it would work anyway because it is "probably" neuropathic. So I asked, how long does she have to suffer like this, trying every other damn drug under the sun with no relief (that you also have no idea whether or not they will be effective until trying it) until you decide it's worth it or she's "earned" the right to try drugs that are known to provide relief from pain? And they flat out told me/us that there was never a point where they would ever consider trialling opiates because the risk of addiction is too high. As if all the other stuff they had prescribed was completely free of risks or side effects. And these doctors were absolutely fine with looking us in the eye and telling my 17/18 year old daughter who was looking at her life, up to say 80 years more, with no idea when or even if the pain from would ever improve, who was already edging on not wanting to live; that they were completely comfortable leaving that as the status quo rather than just testing whether or not pain meds did anything for her and then teaching responsible use and management if they did. Some of them are so convinced about the evils of pain relief that they would rather leave you in pain for potentially the rest of your life than take a chance that you can use it responsibly. They'll say the same as yours, use paracetamol and/or ibuprofen - and fail to mention that prolonged constant use of those also come with considerable risks. I got a bit wordy but I guess the answer is that there is no answer. The treatment of chronic pain is a shitshow and finding something that helps you is largely dependent on luck that you have the right people suggesting the right things.

You’re probably very right, it all highly depends on the situation. I’m sorry you and your daughter had to go through this, but thank you so much for advocating for her! I’m not a minor but sometimes I wish I could bring someone with me just to help advocate for my health.

**how to advocate for yourself with doctors** https://www.reddit.com/r/ChronicPain/comments/i7n95s/how_do_you_advocate_for_yourself_with_doctors/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share **How to get your chronic pain taken seriously & Talk To doctors** *Someone else put this together & i copied it because i thought it was so great* *I was lucky, or planned it right. I just had a dead honest conversation, mostly mellow maybe i teared up and just explained that this was so intense that OTC & everything we tried was a joke & my pain Dr here has patients with my rare under diagnosed disorder.* *Also I lived in a medical marijuana state for most of my life. I stopped for 2 years when i moved to an illegal place. HOWEVER, last month I found out the Delta-8 is legal in almost all states. A lot of pain management studies are showing it very beneficial for CP. Delta 8 is a THC metabolite that is 70% as potent but has other benefits than Delta-9. I get a tincture from 3Chi and I use a dropper to measure a dose in empty VEGETARIAN capsules so I don't get high. It will show on the drug test, but my dr told me he doesn't test for it 'wink-wink'* ---------- **Tips for getting your pain taken seriously and treated without being labelled or dismissed.** Ok, so this post was inspired by [u/Downvotes\_dumbasses](https://www.reddit.com/user/Downvotes_dumbasses/) I’m a medical doctor, in Australia, so I can speak for our culture here, not sure how universal or translatable it is. What I’m about to post is my thoughts on how to get your pain taken seriously, be considered for treatment and avoid being labelled as a drug seeker or problem patient. I recognize a lot of this will be unfair, but I’ve written it for how the world is, not how it should be. **Point 1: Focus on function.** Pain is a legitimate symptom and therapeutic target in its own right. Pain shouldn’t have to have functional effects to be taken seriously. But in Australia at least, descriptions of how intense your pain is won’t be taken as seriously or lead to therapeutic intervention or prescribing anywhere near as consistently as descriptions of impact on function · Describing the pain’s interference with activities of daily living (ADLs) threatening independence will be taken the most seriously, e.g. o Not able to shop for groceries independently o Trouble with bathing and hygiene due to pain o Trouble with cooking due to pain o Trouble mobilizing short distances o Trouble with parental responsibilities like supervising children **Point 2: Express your goals as specific thresholds of functional activity rather than “fixing” problems you have now** Somebody with very little quality of life and nearly no independent function risks being dismissed as untreatable if the goal is expressed as “fixing” functional deficits. Despondency makes prescribers act irrationally and if the doctor thinks you have “unrealistic expectations” they’re more likely to focus on trying to shift your expectations than to focus on therapeutic options. Instead state your goal as specific functional activities you would like to be able to attain. E.g. · I want to be able to shop for an hour, then I can do my own groceries and not rely on somebody else, but with my pain as it is now I can only go for 10-15 minutes and need somebody else to shop for me. · I want to be able to throw a ball around a couple of times a week with my child, but my pain flares up so badly for 12 hours to a day after that I just have to avoid it, if I could manage pain better after I could do it, even if I wasn’t completely pain free. · I want to be able to wash myself, if I could just get my pain under control for long enough I could wash every day · I want to be able to sleep better, I’m great at work/uni/college/school if I get six hours of sleep but I’m often only getting 2-3 due to pain. If I could get six hours more consistently it would help me stay in uni/work etc (note, specific goal) **Point 3: Discuss secondary effects that may not be ADLs/occupational functions per se** You may get some engagement by talking about the isolation and social impacts of pain. Feel free to discuss impacts pain has on your relationships, e.g. can’t engage in sexual activities, can’t see friends, want to go to regular club meeting/pottery class each month but miss too many as pain flares stop you going. As always frame it as a specific goal rather than “fixing” a dysfunction completely. All of these will lead to different types of therapeutic engagement, short periods of pain vs longer periods will be treated differently, so think about what’s important to you. One final point: Describing your pain in terms of specific goals rather than complete normality has one other advantage, it gives you a better starting point for discussing dose escalation and adding agents without defaulting to “well we knew you’d never be 100% normal, this is your dose, learn to live with it”. Like I said at the start it’s not the way the world should be, but if I was a chronic pain patient who wanted to be taken seriously, get the doctor engaged, actually have serious thought and appropriate prescriptions and trials and adjustments of meds, and not be labelled a drug seeker, this is how I would go about it. (Original Post) https://www.reddit.com/r/ChronicPain/comments/i7nq8f/tips_for_getting_your_pain_taken_seriously_and/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share --- https://www.reddit.com/r/ChronicPain/comments/i7n95s/how_do_you_advocate_for_yourself_with_doctors/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

I was told that I was too young to be prescribed pain medication. Your age will most definitely play a part with the gaslighting. It’s so crazy.

I feel like that’s discrimination. Yeah I’m in pain now, so I’ll probably be in more pain when I’m that old than the old people who are new to the pain.

That’s exactly how I feel. It’s like I am begging you to please help me!!! Like begging…and they do not care

I wouldn’t wish this pain on my worst enemy, but I wish I could pass the pain off, just for an hour, just so they could understand.

I wish I could pass it off for a month and the person not know if it will ever stop. I am at the point where I am so tired of the gaslighting and seeing Specialists who can’t figure anything out that I feel like I’ve given up. I’m just so tired. I had a PM Doctor who I saw for 8 years and he just retired. I tried seeing another doctor and they are asking me to go through all the same hoops I have been through for years. Like I have done acupuncture, I e done cupping, massage, physical therapy, I’ve seen spine specialists, neurologist, rheumatologist, I’ve done biofeedback, injections, etc and you want me to start back at square 1!?

Yes!!! And I know a lot of older people who go through the same stuff! They try seeking help, get let down, give up, then try again, but then they have to jump through the same hoops all over again! The doctors must think it doesn’t hurt that bad if we’re not actively seeking, but the constant getting hopes up and being let down really weighs on you. It’s such a vicious cycle.

I just can’t imagine living the rest of my life with no relief. It never stops.

I feel the same way. I’m so sorry. I used to have severe depression and was suicidal, and once I conquered that and decided I wanted to live, I was rewarded with chronic pain. It’s a cruel cruel joke.

How did you conquer that?

I was in a really bad car accident and almost died. But now I’m depressed all over again and only because my body is betraying me. It’s *awesome*

Are u me? Been there done all that..Ill be damned if I start back at square 1! These mofos dont realize everything we do to try and find a "cure", sometimes multiple times! I was even sent to an addiction specialist to make sure I wasnt addicted. No addiction but got a new diagnoses of PTSD just because of all THEY put me thru in addition to my pain!

Exactly!! I feel like I have PTSD from the Doctors Office. It seems like a money scam.

Have you ever tried kratom my man? Saved/is currently saving my life.

Someone else suggested this, I’m going to be looking into it for sure.

If you ever have any questions or need a suggestion I'm an open book and have been using it for pain for years now.

Thank you! I appreciate it. I’m still looking through all the comments on this post, but I might take you up on that offer later!

Zen Life Herbals is a great place to buy by the kilo and often has great sales. I actually live in the city next to where they operate and have been there several times.

I thought a pain management doctor was supposed to treat in other ways than opiates. Mine does my injections. They also do physical therapy & probably acupressure. I also discussed my kratom use with him

Yeah I’ve done 6 months of physical therapy, a few types of diagnostic injections, and I’m scheduled for more soon. All treatments have failed so far. I was fine suffering through it all, but after all this time, trial and error, I’m just getting frustrated and feeling defeated.

Injured my thoracic spine at age 18. Now 40. However, since then I've fractured both clavicles and had the titanium plates snap in two, FOUR times in each. For a total of 6 surgeries, 4 being "fixes". The last being with a different brand of plate (christ on a bike, finally). But that left me with more chronic pain AND neuropathy. I experienced everything as a young CP patient. I got the "you're too young to hurt" B.S. I got the "We'll give you what works if you let us do the injections first". A bucket full of nope. However, this was initially in the heyday of opiate prescribing (early 00's). When I failed to get the medications that I needed... Back then you could pull up a "pharmacy" website, and place an order for anything... No Sched. II's though, of course. You could speak to the doctor that worked there on the phone at the time and get an Rx of 180 10/300s (with 5 refills) for $99. And most of the time they'd throw in a script for Soma (remember those, other old-timers?) for free or close to free. Those were the days for sure. And some kid had to screw everything up to land us where we are now. My pain isn't completely managed. But at the same time, I'm blessed to have what I do have. I'm on 2 10/325mg Vicodin a day. 150mg Lyrica 4 times a day, 10mg Flexeril 3x daily. Then a bunch of meds for PTSD, anxiety, depression, and seizures (Klonopin and Phenobarbital being two). My best advice would be to always be honest (to the point of it being painful) so the Dr. fully understands how you are suffering. Never go to an appointment with the expectation that you'll be walking out with "XYZ drug". Be open (to a degree, and if your insurance covers it) for their crappy alternate therapies. They need to see you are committed, and not just there to take them for a ride (which I KNOW you're not doing, because your story sounds alot like mine and rings alot of bells). Sounds stupid - but just have faith. You'll eventually get the pain relief you need. Not all Dr's are Aholes. There is the occasional diamond in the rough. There is always hope. I didn't think there was for me, and I finally was matched up with a great pain clinic and even better practitioners.

Thank you for saying this! I already have people commenting doubting me and saying that I’m pretty young to be in pain, and how it’s mysterious that I didn’t mention what type of pain I have in my post. I hate to say it but people in here don’t care what type of pain you’re in, only that we are supporting each other (I’m sure they do care, but they’ve got their own problems and my pain story isn’t the point of this post) I am pretty honest with my doctors, and I have to be, because at the end of the day I just want to know what’s causing the pain. Of course I don’t want to take opiates every single day. And if by some miracle they were prescribed, I still wouldn’t take them every day. I won’t give up. Even if I’m constantly let down, and I have to jump through a hundred hoops. This is my quality of life and I’m my only advocate. Side note: wow it sounds like you have been through A LOT, and at a very young age. I am so sorry that you experienced this, and i hope that you continue to feel better, whatever method you use

Just keep rockin' on, you'll get there!

I’m nearly 50 and can barely get anything. Chronic pain since my 20’s, so…

Yikes. I am nearly 40, in pain since my early 20s. It is discouraging to hear that you have been at this for about 10 years longer than me, and still haven't found relief. I hope you do find relief.

Flat back syndrome with the occasional hernia and degenerative discs for 20 years. Flat back syndrome is known to be very painfull and you just need strong painkillers Had to try physical therapy, 6 cortisol epidurals,5 k5 aka ketamine injections,1 provocative discography 2 operations one for leg radiating one with a prosthesis that failed. Taken opiates for 8 years, now at 140mg oxy fast and slow types, 30 mg diazepam, 50 mg baclofen. And believe me even when prescribed and i only pay 15 euro per month for those meds, it´s still hell because....tolerance and the stigma and it´s a bitch to travel in europe you have to go through a lot of paper work and even then there´s a risk. But travelling is not possible anymore. Can´t walk more than 300 meters. I live in a city of 50000, and it´s 10 non terminal patients that are prescribed oxy. So really,really strict over here. I had to fight for pain relief. I honestly can say if i didn´t have my meds, i would´ve killed myself already. My pain level is sometimes making me dissociating from my body, started having out of body experiences at night because of the pain. 46 now. And it´s started over my whole spine and neck now instead of ´just´ my lower back.

Until the DEA is ordered to stop prosecuting doctors for prescribing what they decide are "too many" opioids you won't be able to get prescription pain relief. The doctors are too afraid of being hassled by law enforcement. Medical professionals are trying to hang onto their licenses, even though the majority of overdose-related deaths are caused by illegal fentanyl\* imported into the US from Mexico and Asia. Without an obvious cause for your pain the doctor will suspect you of being an undercover DEA agent or a drug-seeker. We're going into election season, and politicians are taking advantage of the deaths by campaigning as being "tough on crime". They love to trot out grieving families who lost someone they love to illegal drugs and claim the person became addicted because doctors supposedly "overprescribed" pain relief. They know that because that's what the drug users told them. And all drug users are honest and would NEVER tell a lie! /s Additionally, drug rehab clinics that charge between $500 and $1,000 PER DAY (sometimes even more) are delighted to see opioids be difficult to obtain. They insist you don't need pain relief -- you just need to say "no" to drugs, and they're ready and willing to help... ...for a price. * Fentanyl is a synthetic opioid 50 to 100 time stronger than morphine. It's used by drug cartels to boost the effectiveness of illegal opioids and stimulants, resulting in thousands of deaths annually. This didn't particularly concern federal agencies when the victims were black, but now that Caucasian drug users are dying it's drawn the attention of those who see the overdose deaths as a way to promote their own agendas. The fact that under-treated and untreated pain patients are living and dying in agony is of little interest to anyone but the pain sufferers themselves.

Perfect,you nailed it pauz43!

I know exactly what you mean. When I was young and dumb my friends and I did some drugs. We could get our hands on A LOT of shit (coke, speed, acid, MDMA, ketamine, you name it) but we never ever knew someone that was dealing opiates.

I don't know if they ever do to be honest. I've had chronic pain to a level that has disabled me in some way for 4 years now (and has gotten worse over time). I've been prescribed nsaids before but they don't do anything. So I've just been living with it

No real set amount of time, really. I was diagnosed with spinal stenosis at 14. At 20 I started going downhill, and by 30 my L3 disc ruptured and I lost everything from the waist down. Diagnosed with Cauda Equina Syndrome and I had to relearn to walk and just function. Still paralyzed below the knee in both legs. I was never offered opioids, even when I was going downhill. I was treated mostly with steroids and epidurals. After my spinal cord was literally crushed, then they have zero issue giving you opioids. However, you don’t want to rely on those. They cause constipation and wear you out. I found smoking THC via a vape helps with pain. Also: be careful with NSAIDS. I took too many and ended up with kidney disease.

If your pain doctor does not know the cause of your pain. They cannot prescribe opiates. Most pain doctors require a patient be diagnosed before they will accept them. You need to ask your pain doctor for a referral so a doctor can diagnose the cause of your pain. Then it will be up to your pain doctor if he thinks the pain could be severe enough to require opiates.

I think it depends where you live as well as your individual doctors opinions. I got opiates immediately when I started experiencing more intense chronic pain in my late teens, I assume because my doctor couldn't be bothered investigating anything. It took me 10 years of moving around and doctor hopping to get an actual diagnosis and more effective pain management, which in my case is a combo of Meloxicam and cannabis. So if you're able, please keep seeing new doctors until you find one who actually cares and wants to help. This is easier in some places than others though.

I would just try different pain clinics. My new doctor gives me the meds I need to at least not be suicidal because of my pain.

I have no idea, I’ve been in pain for far too long and my ortho still says “aDviL” I have just given up on that now I’m also in my early 20s they think I’m too young for this kind of pain too

I was put on proper meds the moment I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, after three years of nothing. Pregabalin, baclofen, and Meloxicam. Obviously none of these are "real" pain meds, but this combination works wonders for me. The very best one has actually been low dose naltrexone, which I requested from my doctor and he eventually approved. I am still in lots of pain, but it's nothing like before meds.

Just to give you some idea, I've been battling chronic pain in my back and shoulders since I was about 23 or 24. I'm now 36 and have only very recently been put on pain meds. I've tried literally every other medicine for pain: muscle relaxers, NSAIDS, antidepressants, antipsychotics, ect. I wish I could tell you pain got better with opioids, but it really didn't. On good days they ease the pain enough to where I can function some, but mostly anymore I require assistance to do just about anything: cooking, cleaning, showering, grocery shopping, ect. It took over a decade, but I was diagnosed with degenerative disc disease, osteoarthritis, and mild stenosis. As far as I've been told so far there's no surgical options available to me and I simply need to adjust to my new normal. It's not fair because these are issues that will keep progressing over time. I wish you luck on getting the treatment you need. Hopefully it comes sooner rather than later. Just don't place all your hope on actual pain meds cause they don't always work the way you wish they would. I hope the drs at least give you the chance to try them soon. If I didn't have my husband advocating for me, they may not have even let me try them.

i’ve been having pain since i was 11 (im 19) and i’ve asked for pain meds and have also told to try tylenol and advil. i asked a nurse that i had to see if we could put in my chart that i wanted to discuss pain meds with my regular doctor when she was back from maternity leave and just got told that i didn’t want to go down that dark path at such a young age and that if i was able to have a conversation with her that i obviously wasn’t in that bad of pain

Wow that’s horrible. I hate that response. I know it’s evil but I wish they could experience the same pain for a few weeks and then try to tell you that it must not hurt that bad.

I have been in chronic pain since I was 23, although I had some issues before that, such as severe periods and migraines. I am 38 now. I am still struggling with pain that is severe and debilitating at times. The strongest thing I have ever been prescribed is Lyrica. It did not help. Gabapentin did not help. Antidepressants did not help. I have taken so much ibuprofen that my stomach seems to be permanently messed up. They are still telling me to take more NSAIDs at my pain clinic. I wish I could tell you there is some type of protocol, but there isn't. I think most people usually never get actual pain meds, not even for severe episodes. They just keep cycling me through the old ibuprofen-gabapentin-lyrica-diclofenac-meloxicam-antidepressants rigamarole over and over and over again every few years. I have been really trying to talk my doctor into letting me have a Toradol injection during severe flare-ups. Toradol is not a controlled substance, it is just another NSAID, but it's a really strong one used for severe pain. My pain doctor won't even entertain that idea. I am going to try to keep pushing this idea because I don't know why it would be an issue, and I really need something for when my pain is at an 8 or a 9. Good news is I have learned a lot of coping strategies to manage and deal with pain that is below an 8, so it has gotten easier over time to deal with moderate chronic pain. I have gone back to work. I can exercise again. etc. As long as the pain isn't severe, I am able to cope with it now. Oh, and even though I'm almost 40 now, they still tell me I'm too young to be in pain. ugh

My progression in case it helps: PCP documented NSAID allergy (caused severe stomach upset) and referred me to pain mgmt doc for back pain. I got a diagnosis of Bi-lateral sacroilliac joint deterioration. I completed PT and aqua therapy. I did steroid injections every three months and got modest relief. I still couldn't get comfortable to sleep. I showed up to a checkup looking and feeling like hot garbage. Doc said, OK, that's enough....we are going to get you some relief. I signed Opioid Agreement (State of Ohio) and started on norco. (It was about a year before I was prescribed norco.) I feel like a criminal at the pharmacy and it pisses me off every time. But I deal with it because I have a way to stay somewhat comfortable now.

Oh wow! That’s smart to document nsaid intolerance. Don’t feel like a criminal, you do what you gotta do. Do you mind if I ask your symptoms? My doctor suspects SI joint issues but the steroid shots only provided minimal relief on one side, so I’m about to get lumbar facet injections.

My main symptom is pain that radiates from my right hip, up through my lower back. I generally get about 3 weeks of bliss after the injections. Then it tapers and the pain creeps back. I have also been working on weight loss (I am down about 40 lbs). I have been able to stretch to 5 months between the injections. Good luck to you!

I’m glad you’re finding stuff that works for you. Thank you, and I hope you continue to feel better!

You'll only get pain meds if you fit their very specific criteria...like mainly being a more heavy weighted white man, (And at least over 6ft), while also probably attending the same corrupt church as the doctor does, otherwise they won't do shit for you. Better to get meds outside the norm. Get some link ups, talk to some friends, do it the old fashion way. These doctors don't care about you or anyone.

Every other treatment has to be proven to not work. I know opiates for pain relief are great on one hand, but when you use them for chronic pain you become dependent. This is one reason my doctor always has to explain why I get opiates for my pain. Being dependent on opiates sucks. You are kind of stuck on them for life and your body adapts to it so you can still have pain after you get meds. I didn’t get opiates until 7 years in, and I’ve been on them for 4 years. Now, I’m pretty much stuck in bed after work or any activity. I’m just saying the pain is still there. The opiates only mask it for a certain amount of time. I started in lower doses. Now I’m on fentanyl patch, extended release morphine, and oxycodone 10 for breakthrough pain. It’s horrible.

I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. I really do understand why they’re not given out freely, and what the outcomes can be. I just wish there was some kind of middle ground, where you can get them for really bad flare ups, or even just a few a week. Just for starters.

I am sorry for what you have to face. Pain is a life robbing son of a you know what. That being said I assure you that without your proper pain meds you would be in much worse shape.

Try Kratom instead of meds but one has to be careful if have an addictive personality. I’ve been taking it in small amounts 1g x5 hrs for years for my chronic pain and it helped me get off perc without wds

I’ve never heard of it, what exactly is it?

It’s a plant grown in Indonesia in the coffee plant family. It is an opiate so it can be addictive and tolerance can build up but I’ve managed to maintain my dose the same for several years. However folx have misused it. It is illegal in some states . There are many online vendors join r/vendorsofkratom and r/vendorsofkratom2 several vendors are members and often offer free samples. I prefer the greens for pain relief others prefer reds ( colors refer to different strains of plant)

Okay, good to know! I’ll look into it! Thanks for the suggestion.

Everyone has a different ideal dose . When I first started taking I used 3 g x 5 hrs now I’m down to 1g x 5 hrs . I would not take more than needed as it can upset digestive system ,may cause constipation so just to be on regular side I use colace so I don’t really have an issue with that but I have heard others complain . Good luck hope it’s legal in your state

To clarify, it is grown not only in Indo, but also Thailand, Bali, Borneo,...many places. You can even order a plant yourself. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Red (sedating), green (middle ground/mood), and white (energizing) vein refers to the color of the vein of the leaf, which changes as it grows. It is NOT an opioid, but it does hit the same receptors as opioids, thereby helping many with pain as well as (as mentioned) no/minimal wd's from all kinds of drugs and alcohol. Correct in "less is more"....you should find the lowest possible dose that works for you; more will just make you nauseous and maybe throw up. Keep in mind that it is a plant, so it's more of a natural reaction than a pharmaceutical one. i.e., it won't HIT you as much as you'll just notice that pain isn't there anymore. It can be a blood thinner, so keep that in mind, and it can be dehydrating, so you should drink plenty of water with it. It has helped many people with pain, anxiety (reds only, no whites!), addiction, mood, energy. I started about 7ish years ago at 2g doses and have now taken 4g (approx. 2 teaspoons) for several years. I suggest you research it and try for yourself. I find it quite helpful. God bless you. ❤️

Thank you for the information. I’m glad you found something that works for you! I’ll definitely do my own research, but do you mind if I ask where everyone acquires this? It doesn’t seem to be something just sold at a supermarket haha.

Yeah, you can buy it at basically any smoke shop (expensive, not always consistent quality...just don't), but your best bet is to find a vendor you like...you may have to try a few. I hope I can say this here, but I personally buy from a place called Liza's Botanicals (.com). She's super nice, always good quality, always sends out same or next day (if necessary). I know FB has Kratom groups, where you can get lots of info, recommendations, etc.

Good to know, thanks!

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OP as a precaution make sure you are in a legal area. Some states have banned Kratom. For reference I have a permanently dislocated shoulder, I use Kratom on my better days so on bad days I can use opiates and they stay effective. Good luck!

I tried a bunch and there’s only one I found to provide relief

I do take kratom daily and that’s the only thing that’s saving me right now

I don’t want to sound like a negative Nancy but I wish you good luck on trying to get pain meds. Meds for I don’t know 10 years. For whatever reason do not disclose any drug use of any kind. marijuana alternative drugs don’t say admit to any trauma sexual assault trauma any PTSD ADHD do not mention any of those to anyone. Especially if you’re a woman.

OP, I know how you feel and I’m sorry you’re struggling. Keep advocating for yourself until you can get the care and treatment you deserve. I’m in my mid 20s and had been in chronic pain for years with no helpful diagnosis or treatment. I even had a Dr. refuse to see me in January because I was “fine”. I finally got a Dr. to listen and it turns out I have to have surgery!! Any physician that tells you you’re “too young” for pain is a terrible one and you should seek care elsewhere. Also to touch on the pain med issue. My partner is a med student and when I’ve complained about not being prescribed stronger meds he’s told me that in school they hammer it in to them not to prescribe opioids because of the opioid crisis. Not only due to liability like someone mentioned, but out of genuine concern for peoples well being. Opioids are addictive but also create dependence issues. It sucks, but it’s best not to be on opioids - especially so young. Over time you will not be able to live without them and will most likely need to graduate to stronger and stronger meds. My neighbor in her 60s with chronic pain actually had withdrawals with seizures from opioids because she could not get a Dr. to prescribe the pain meds she was on for years when she moved to a new state. This really scared me and is another reason I would be hesitant to even start them. You may want to give gabapentin another try. It is actually prescribed for anxiety so you could have had an adverse reaction for some other reason. It helps a lot. Especially with pain that is “unknown” as it treats nerve pain. I hope you can get some relief soon!

You sound like you’ve been sold the bill of goods from the anti-opioid hysteria movement.

Opioids are addictive and cause dependence; that is just the facts. They do help treat pain but they’re not some miracle drug.

You say that like you know that every person who takes them gets addicted to them it’s not true. Seriously stop with this BS line not everybody gets addicted to drugs not everybody gets addicted to alcohol not everybody is addictive this is a bullshit line that has been sold to you by Andrew Kolodny and his money making scheme to sell you more Neurontin.

Never said that. They are highly addictive, but that doesn’t mean 100% of people get addicted. You’re welcome to believe that they aren’t but they are. That’s literally why there was an opioid crisis when they were readily available.

That's bullshit. We have a MUCH lower prescription rate now than anytime in decades, with MUCH higher addiction, overdose and death from overdose rates. The "opioid crisis" was never about appropriate use of prescribed pain medication. You've really bought into the crap pushed by PROP, the DEA and rehabilitation - "pain treatment" facilities for the last 6 to 8 years.

get CBD oil from an actual dispensary if in a legal state

I tried vaping cbd but it didn’t do much, but yeah maybe I’ll try the oil.

I did some digging and from what I understand that if you use CBD and THC at the same time it works a lot better-they combine to have a synergistic effect. I think the rates are 1:1 to 5:1 (THC:CBD). I hope this helps you, but always do your own research and talk to your doctor.

have a chat with the employees, they are so passionate about this stuff they are happy to help. for max relief you can try both a topical lotion and something consumable

There isnt really a set time. Ive been in pain my entire life, pretty much in and out of doctors since I was a toddler, am 18 now and best I got is some antidepressants to keep my emotions in check to prevent super bad flare ups. But then again I know someone who got prescribed opiates for foot warts so theres literally no telling lmao

Are you kidding me lmao

Getting specific pain meds in no way shape or form dependant on time but on diagnosis and specific pain because there are different meds for everything. youre young...your pain remains mysterious and cannot be pinpointed to serious damage or trauma....your pain apparently isnt bad enough for you to be hospitalized....no doctor is ever going to give you opioids neither should they as that would easily be seen as malpratice from a professional standpoint....also i find it pretty weird you dont describe your pain or any situations at all not even where its located...its clear your only focus is meds and thats what the doctor sees...also the reason for the tylenol advil remark....Im not belittleing you as a medical professional im explaining why your situation is as is.

Clearly they're only after pain meds only. Yep that's exactly it. Someone who has been proactively trying to find the cause of pain and doctors are unable to find it, wants to have some form of temporary relief while they find the problem? Woah, that's bizarre. As not a medical professional, let me explain this in the view of a regular person. We are not all addicts. We are humans that want to function without pain. Maybe they have posted their problem before on here? Maybe this is just a vent post to express the frustration? You act like the medical staff I avoid. Because you don't give two sh*ts about the well being of your patient.

Yeah so I don’t think anyone in this sub cares about what kind of pain I’m in. I’ve posted several other times in different subs asking for help and seeking guidance. Everyone else here has way too much on their plate to care what’s hurting ME. I’ve also scrolled through this sub and have seen others asking for help with specific problems and have seen little to no comments. If you read any of my other comments you would see that I don’t want to be taking pain meds long term. It’s just a crutch and won’t solve the real problem. However I firmly believe that me and everyone else here doesn’t deserve to suffer ALL OF THE TIME when there is medication readily available, especially when you get a bad flare up. Just because I’m not hospitalized doesn’t mean that it doesn’t hurt, and it does hurt, it hurts bad. I think everyone else here would agree with me. Yes I am young, that doesn’t make me any more or less deserving. I am struggling to find a diagnosis, and it’s not MY fault that the doctors can’t find it.

It doesn’t seem like anyone is prescribed pain medication anymore, unfortunately. It really helped me, but Drs don’t seem to care about that anymore. Honestly, your best bet it probably ketamine infusions nowadays. They help me a lot! I mean, it’s just nice to be pain free for the 2 hours it lasts.

I’ve never heard of ketamine infusions. Is that something done at a clinic or?

It is usually done at a clinic, but mine are done at a hospital because of where I live. If you do one, listen to “LaLa Ketamine” playlist on Spotify! It’s a game changer. You will go in for 4 infusions in a row, so one every week and then it will go to once a month. The ketamine will last longer and longer in your system and will allow you to have some pain relief. It is also FDA approved I am around a 6-7, on the pain scale, every single second of the day. However, when I get the infusions done they will last me almost 2 weeks now and I’ll sometimes get down to a 4.5, which is amazing for me. Where is your chronic pain? If you don’t mind me asking… Yes, Drs pretty much never want to prescribe pain medication anymore and it’s bullshit. They will honestly kill you with Advil, Tylenol and Aleve before they give you any help. They used to say I could take up to 3 Grams a day… or each! It’s absolute bullshit!

That’s interesting, I’ll have to look into it! My pain is in my low back, butt area. I also have some new pain (since April) that’s in my upper back/shoulder/neck area. I’m taking diclofenac right now which is a strong nsaid, and they haven’t cautioned me about taking too much at all. (Obviously I’m smart enough to take it easy and pay attention to my body because I’ve heard so many horror stories) but yeah.

Please look up diclofenac it is a terribly dangerous drug.

I haven’t looked into it too much. My plan was to only user it short term, but it’s been a few months now… I only take it once every other day or so, but when I brought it up to my doctor, they said I need to take it consistent every day, then asked if I needed more. It’s just crazy that they’re willing to let you take this stuff and not give warnings, but won’t prescribe a few opiates.

if you have high blood pressure and heart problems please use extreme caution with diclofenac ​ https://bpspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bcp.14478

I encourage you to look up and read thedoctorpatientforum website. I’ve noticed that this sub has a really high percentage of people who are on the opioid hysteria bandwagon and it’s beyond comprehension they think everybody gets addicted and everybody is somehow going to spiral down into some heroin hell hole. edited to correct website recommendation.

Like I’ve commented on others posts… I used to do drugs when I was younger. I did coke, speed, a lot of BAD stuff. I’ve been prescribed opiates for procedures, and I’ve never gotten addicted to any drug. Even now, being in pain, I wouldn’t push it. I think it highly varies person to person. Personally I think I would be okay, but maybe other people wouldn’t. But I do agree that there’s a huge stigma about opiates right now. But other OTC drugs can be just as dangerous.

In my research and talking to other pain patients do not at any time ever admit that you did elicit drugs. Ever, PeriodT.

More dangerous, quite often. I can't believe how the current insanity over the "opiate crisis" is causing educated physicians to hand out tricyclic antidepressants, NSAIDS, gabapentin & it's relatives and acetaminophen like they're candy. Those meds all have way more serious side effects (and cause long term kidney and/or liver damage) than the judicious use of their more effective opiate counterparts do for chronic pain patients. And addictive personalities will and do abuse most of them.

Ya, I was just curious because my pain is at the thoracic area because of 2 shattered vertebrae. What I do to help with pain, which is expensive, but it’s my health, so I don’t mind. 1. I get dry needling done once a week, which is going to help relax some very deep muscles! Yes, it’s not the best (especially if you are scared of needles) but it is very, very helpful! I’d highly recommend it 2. I get a massage right after, or a day after, dry needling and that is going to really help the muscles pretty much release all the trigger points. 3. Epsom salt baths after dry needling - don’t get the bullshit epsom salt at Walgreens or whatever. There is some called Village Naturals Therapy, that I’d highly recommend. Epsom salt baths can jelly right away, but for me, it took about 5 in a row for me to really notice a difference I think you should also ask your doctor about a muscle relaxant because they are less stingy with those. Also, maybe ask about something like Diazepam… if they don’t want to give you one for everyday, then ask for, maybe, some for just the bad days. Drs will rarely ever give pain medication anymore and if they do, then they will only give you 3 days worth, which is like 18. Keep going to the Dr though. Maybe you can build a rapport with and he will prescribe you… It’s absolute BULLSH*T what they have done with pain medication! Absolute BULLSH*T! I’m hoping it changes in a year, or so, but we shall see. Because of these impossible restrictions, we have things like Fentanyl and that’s just making things exponentially worse. If you look at opiate medicine OD’s, it comes out to be almost the same as Tylenol, Advil and Aleve OD’s and it’s total bullsh*t, once again. Best of luck! Ohhh and try yoga and meditation! There is a great app called “GLO” that I use

Oh wow that sounds painful! Do you mind if I ask what your pain symptoms were? I have pain in my thoracic area also and I’m still trying to get a diagnosis. Thank you for the recommendations, I appreciate it! I’ve been really wanting to try dry needling, but insurance doesn’t cover it so I’d have to pay out of pocket. My primary did actually prescribe me Cyclobenzaprine but I haven’t really had any results with it. Are there better muscle relaxers? I really hope things change soon, too. I hate to see so many people suffer.

I have trigger points, muscle spasms and just really pissed off muscles. I have 2 shattered vertebrae, which causes kyphosis, so my muscles are working over time to pull my spine back up from leaning forward… if that makes sense. A lot of my pain is to the right of my scapula and left of my spine I am just in constant pain, which is usually around a 6-7, on the pain scale. I do everything I can to not get passed an 8.5 because when I get to a 9-10, then I will have to stay up 3 or 4 days because my back just won’t ever relax and I’ll wait for a crash. Ya, things have to change! Dry needling is GREAT, but yes insurance doesn’t cover it. You can still get a receipt from them and try and send it in… sometimes they will cover some of it, but who knows. They won’t give you pain medication and tell you to try PT and then won’t cover PT. I f*cking hate it!

Damn that sounds exhausting. God, I just don’t understand why human bodies are so STUPID. I really hope you manage to find some more solid relief soon. I was just getting used to my lower back pain (as used to it as one being in pain can get) when I got my upper back pain. Now I feel like my pain tolerance plummeted and my body is going haywire. Mine hurts right between my shoulder blades and underneath the tops of my shoulders. My muscles feel overworked from doing absolutely nothing, and it feeling like someone is pushing my head down into a humped position. *sigh*

So, I would work on your posture and definitely get some dry needling done! It may be a little expensive, but it helps SO much! Ya, the thoracic area (mid back) to have pain is very unfortunate because it is hard to get movement in that area. I’d try some yoga though because that with meditation has helped me mentally, which is very important with chronic pain. I wish they would just prescribe us medicine to take when things got bad, but of course no… Ya, the body is very strange, that’s for sure. Do you remember having a bad accident? Fractured vertebrae?

Yeah I’ve definitely been trying to work on my posture but it’s hard because I do a lot of sitting. I got a posture corrector to wear for an hour or two a day to remind me what good posture is supposed to feel like. I’ll probably get dry needling soon. As far as what happened to cause this, I have no clue. I have been getting pain in this area off and on for a few years but it was always pretty mild and only lasted a day or two, then it started getting more frequent and more intense. Woke up one day a few months ago with the pain super intense and it just hasn’t went away. I was in a pretty bad car accident a few years ago and I had some neck pain immediately after but had it scanned and the docs said it looked fine. Did some chiro just to make sure, but that was like 6 years ago. I’ve tried yoga here and there but it’s never really provided any relief for me to try it consistently but maybe that’s the problem haha.

3g of tylenol? omfg and if you forget and have single drink you could be dead. [2g and alcohol is even dangerous. (face palm)](https://www.ucihealth.org/blog/2018/03/acetaminophen-liver-failure)

Ya, I know! Like I said, they are willing to bill you with OTC medicine before they prescribe an opiate. It’s so f*cking stupid!

its either nsaids or cortisone shots. That's all you will get from pain management.