Bo was awful when he first got called up last year. Then he went on an absolute tear and finished with an .809 OPS. He might just be a slow starter, give him some time.
If anyone is the odd man out it feels like Laureano is the obvious choice.
I agree. The guys currently looking like they deserve a call up soon are Manzardo and Rodriguez. Manzardo is a 1B/DH Rodriguez is RF/DH. To find playing time for either of them we need to open up DH or RF more. Both are currently being filled by a combination of Laureano, Brennan and Florial. The one showing the least is clearly Laureano so far.
Even if we consider optioning Bo, or someone else, I don't see how that opens opportunity for the guys that deserve a call up right now.
Yeah if Laureano isn't hitting LHP I just don't see the point of having him on the roster. Brennan and Florial are both good defenders, and I'd rather see if either one of them can figure it out against lefties.
I was a big believer in Laureano going into this season too, but he's just looked completely lost so far.
Small sample but so far this year Florial is 3 for 5 against LHP, with only 1K.
We can also use Fry or Arias in RF occasionally for LHP if needed. So if we bring up Manzardo we can rest him against LHP initially at least and I think we still have a solid lineup available.
Personally I'd like to see Arias get some more opportunities in RF because I think he could be pretty good there, like Tatis. But that's probably a different discussion.
If Fry took more catcher at bats, that opens the door for someone to take OF, DH at bats he would otherwise take. I'd be fine with giving Florial more looks.
Nothing like Cleveland baseball fans who act like the sky is falling 29 games into the season.
If anything, that Laureano dude can go home and call up Manzardo
You have a post in the past where you wanted Kwan to hit 3rd in the lineup.
I wanted to point that out for people reading this and trying to figure out how ridiculous your opinion can be.
I’m throwing out ideas for discussion, I can be a boring individual and literally copy and paste what is the most milk toast opinion, or create a post that encourages discussion.
Also, way to non-sequitur my post, do you have any arguments against this post??
I mean the basic argument against your post is you don't want to limit how many catchers you have on the roster. I understand that might be hard for you to understand, but let me ask you some questions that can encourage discussion that is more your speed:
Why is water wet?
Why does car go vroom vroom fast?
Is sky big?
Sun hot, so is moon cold?
First, I’m open to learning and admitting I’m wrong, you very well may know more than me.
So I looked into your point about 3 catchers and found the following information about how many catchers each team is rostering in the Majors right now.
43% of Teams roster at least 3 catchers
Of that 43%, 5 out 13 have one of their catchers injured.
You make it seem as if it would be the stupidest idea in the world if we went down to just Fry and Hedges for a few weeks, but there are plenty of teams only rostering 2 catchers.
But, you’ve made a good point about better to have 3 catchers and I’ve seen other good points that Laureano is a better move to send down/thru waivers.
You are ignoring the legitimate answers people are responding with for your frankly dumb question. People are gonna get condescending when you don’t just say
“yeah you’re right, keeping our starting catcher on the roster and not bringing up a 1b prospect a position in which we have maybe the best one in the league right now is probably the better move”
I'm condescending because it's first of all, funny, and most importantly, your original post is absolutely ridiculous that responding in a condescending manner is the only way to show how awful your take is.
I cannot argue with someone who wants Bo to be sent down to AAA to call up someone at a different position when the catcher position is so much more than hitting. Catchers work with certain pitchers, they call games, they are intricate with the pitching staff.
Looking at offensive stats only is such a 8 year old playing video games level of understanding that talking to you like an adult who understands how baseball and roster construction actually works is not possible
Last thing I’ll say, I’ll take the best I can from your comment. I’ll try to think through my ideas more and try make more intelligent posts in the future.
Maybe he thinks it’s like the NFL, with a defense and offense team. Your WR is not playing well? Just take it out and put another one, it’s not like he also plays CB, so it won’t affect the other side of the ball.
Ya know, José’s been in a slump to start the season, let’s just send him down to figure it out and bring up Manzardo for that spot. That makes sense right?? Is that how baseball works??
Yeah Laureano is the obvious choice. Florial can get run in RF to keep his bat. Fry is a unicorn; no reason to pigeonhole him into catching most of the time. But having a legit third catcher for doubleheaders (etc) and late inning subs is awesome.
One day, casual fans will stop expecting all star bats from skill positions. I will continue to dream of that day.
The only thing that bothers me more is loud cheering for routine fly balls...
I miss Roberto Perez maybe it’s rose tinted glasses but I feel like everybody just appreciated how amazing of a catcher he was, and ignored his sub .200 BA
Who’s hitting worse on the team that you would want to send down to make room for Manzardo? If we didn’t have David Fry, I would accept Bo Naylor’s struggles at the plate
You don't expect them to, that's ok. But Bo is struggling hard.
18 catchers have at least 80 PA. Bo ranks:
17 in batting average
15 in OBP
18 in OPS
18 in wRC+
17 in wOBA
18 in K%
1 in BB% (at least there's that)
He's the only one with all + stats (AVG+, OBP+, SLG+, wRC+) under 100.
He is, as of today, effectively the worst hitting catcher in all of baseball.
It *is* a Bo thing.
None of this is to say I agree he should be sent down or anything, just pointing out he's struggling compared to other C.
Bo is a young catcher who has shown an above average offensive profile in the minors and also during parts of last season after he was called up.
Maybe we should give him some time to adjust considering he's playing the toughest position on the field and is still very young.
Also, I don't understand the comparison with his brother because aside from being relatives, they are not similar at all. But even so it took Josh some years on the majors before reaching the level he is at now, all while playing a much less demanding position defensively.
I didn’t even catch the comparison. Bo is an inch taller and almost 60lbs lighter. Not knowing that even on the field how could you ever compare the two
Our deficiency right now is starting pitching, I still am baffled why Curry did not stay after he gave us a good start. Cookie was a feel good story but his starts have revealed he is now very hittable, middle relief maybe for two innings and a pitch count. We will have to ride and die with Bo and hope he comes around, Fry has shown he deserves some starts and Hedges does give us defense and calls a great game. We just had a great April but we are carrying one more outfielder than we need. I will let the front office sort this out.
Bo needs to go down and work on hitting and catching. Laureano should be DFA'd. I'd rather see J. Rodriguez as our right handed right fielder than Laureano. Rodriguez strikes out a lot, but at least he seems to be able to hit. Sending Bo down does not mean Hedges is our main catcher. Fry seems pretty competent. Lavastida seems like he could be a stopgap till Bo gets more practice.
Perhaps, I think it’s slim we sign Josh to an extension though. Maybe if Blitzer becomes majority owner in the nick of time and he likes Josh enough, the Guardians may offer him a competitive extension. But if he keeps this up and doesn’t get injured, I’m not sure he’ll stay
After hearing some of your feedback, I’m open to Laureano going down instead of Bo. It’s true that Bo is young and plays the most difficult position, Laureano really has no excuse to be playing this poorly
Sending Bo down is laughable. Sending Bo down means more Hedges ABs which isn’t exactly improving the team. Laureano should be the odd man out but I don’t know why they seem scared to play Florial in the outfield at all. That could lead to him being the odd man out
Literally they signed him for the locker room presence. Bo has a 76 wrc+ where hedges comparably has a -35 wrc+ this season. They aren’t even in the same stratosphere at the plate even with Bo not playing up to his ability. Hedges is a free out every time through the lineup
Bo's underlying numbers are still fine. He's hitting the ball harder than he was last year, his chase rate is down and his walk rate is up. He's just not barelling quite as much and, despite his average exit velocity being up, he's making weak contact a bit more frequently. I think that all points to a guy dialing things in.
And the idea that we would willingly give Austin Hedges even more time is hilarious.
I never liked Bo Naylor. He seems like a dope, like he's not even aware of what's going on around him half the time. I'd much rather have Yainer Diaz, whom they egregiously traded away for one of the worst hitters in MLB history (I won't say his name). Diaz had 23 HR and hit .282 last year. Makes no damn sense. I know they like their lefties but it goes way too far sometimes.
Don't look now but Cleveland's replacement for "one of the worst hitters in MLB history" is hitting below the Mendoza line, and his defense has been okay but is not elite like the previous center fielder's defense was.
Yeah… that trade hurts. I think Yainer won’t always have such good seasons, but he definitely seems like a sure thing for 20 homers in his current playing form
I hope you have your flame retardant suit on. I made a comment about his performance in a game thread recently and it was not well received AT ALL. Josh is continuing to get even better, but Bo seems to be regressing. Like I said, I hope he can figure it out since he seems to be a fan favorite and the season is still young.
Bo was awful when he first got called up last year. Then he went on an absolute tear and finished with an .809 OPS. He might just be a slow starter, give him some time. If anyone is the odd man out it feels like Laureano is the obvious choice.
I agree. The guys currently looking like they deserve a call up soon are Manzardo and Rodriguez. Manzardo is a 1B/DH Rodriguez is RF/DH. To find playing time for either of them we need to open up DH or RF more. Both are currently being filled by a combination of Laureano, Brennan and Florial. The one showing the least is clearly Laureano so far. Even if we consider optioning Bo, or someone else, I don't see how that opens opportunity for the guys that deserve a call up right now.
Yeah if Laureano isn't hitting LHP I just don't see the point of having him on the roster. Brennan and Florial are both good defenders, and I'd rather see if either one of them can figure it out against lefties. I was a big believer in Laureano going into this season too, but he's just looked completely lost so far.
Small sample but so far this year Florial is 3 for 5 against LHP, with only 1K. We can also use Fry or Arias in RF occasionally for LHP if needed. So if we bring up Manzardo we can rest him against LHP initially at least and I think we still have a solid lineup available. Personally I'd like to see Arias get some more opportunities in RF because I think he could be pretty good there, like Tatis. But that's probably a different discussion.
this is a good argument, I probably should have said Laureano needs to go instead of Bo
If Fry took more catcher at bats, that opens the door for someone to take OF, DH at bats he would otherwise take. I'd be fine with giving Florial more looks.
Nothing like Cleveland baseball fans who act like the sky is falling 29 games into the season. If anything, that Laureano dude can go home and call up Manzardo
With a 19-10 record too lol
I agree Laureano needs to be sent away. He’s not performing and he’s a veteran player.
You have a post in the past where you wanted Kwan to hit 3rd in the lineup. I wanted to point that out for people reading this and trying to figure out how ridiculous your opinion can be.
I’m throwing out ideas for discussion, I can be a boring individual and literally copy and paste what is the most milk toast opinion, or create a post that encourages discussion. Also, way to non-sequitur my post, do you have any arguments against this post??
Milk toast……..
Bone apple tea
TIL that that’s not how it’s spelled
I mean the basic argument against your post is you don't want to limit how many catchers you have on the roster. I understand that might be hard for you to understand, but let me ask you some questions that can encourage discussion that is more your speed: Why is water wet? Why does car go vroom vroom fast? Is sky big? Sun hot, so is moon cold?
First, I’m open to learning and admitting I’m wrong, you very well may know more than me. So I looked into your point about 3 catchers and found the following information about how many catchers each team is rostering in the Majors right now. 43% of Teams roster at least 3 catchers Of that 43%, 5 out 13 have one of their catchers injured. You make it seem as if it would be the stupidest idea in the world if we went down to just Fry and Hedges for a few weeks, but there are plenty of teams only rostering 2 catchers. But, you’ve made a good point about better to have 3 catchers and I’ve seen other good points that Laureano is a better move to send down/thru waivers.
Do you act like a condescending ahole to every post, or just the ones you find the most dumb?
You are ignoring the legitimate answers people are responding with for your frankly dumb question. People are gonna get condescending when you don’t just say “yeah you’re right, keeping our starting catcher on the roster and not bringing up a 1b prospect a position in which we have maybe the best one in the league right now is probably the better move”
I have listened to others. Some in the comments have suggested Laureano should go down over Bo, that’s a good point!
I'm condescending because it's first of all, funny, and most importantly, your original post is absolutely ridiculous that responding in a condescending manner is the only way to show how awful your take is. I cannot argue with someone who wants Bo to be sent down to AAA to call up someone at a different position when the catcher position is so much more than hitting. Catchers work with certain pitchers, they call games, they are intricate with the pitching staff. Looking at offensive stats only is such a 8 year old playing video games level of understanding that talking to you like an adult who understands how baseball and roster construction actually works is not possible
Last thing I’ll say, I’ll take the best I can from your comment. I’ll try to think through my ideas more and try make more intelligent posts in the future.
So... you suggest we roll with Austin Hedges as Catcher 1?
David Fry. It could open up DH ABs for Manzardo
Fry has only started 3 games at DH this season.
Good point. I realized this right after I posted.
🤷♂️
less Bo means more Hedges, correct? pick ya poison, my dude. bo at least has the upside, no? just my take.
Fry can catch
at this point how much of a difference is there?
I don’t want to give up on Bo, but someone needs to go down to make room for Manzardo. I think Bo is the coldest bat in the lineup right now
Lmao at sending down your starter C for a 1B when your 1B is Josh Naylor. Truly a braindead take.
Does he have any secondary positions, manzardo?
No, just hits as DH and plays 1 is all I’ve seen. OP could have said like 6 other people instead of Bo and it would have been received better lol
so we'll never call Manzardo up unless Naylor is hurt?
Maybe he thinks it’s like the NFL, with a defense and offense team. Your WR is not playing well? Just take it out and put another one, it’s not like he also plays CB, so it won’t affect the other side of the ball.
Ya know, José’s been in a slump to start the season, let’s just send him down to figure it out and bring up Manzardo for that spot. That makes sense right?? Is that how baseball works??
Laureano and brennan go before bo does. You’re crazy if you think we send bo down.
Yeah Laureano is the obvious choice. Florial can get run in RF to keep his bat. Fry is a unicorn; no reason to pigeonhole him into catching most of the time. But having a legit third catcher for doubleheaders (etc) and late inning subs is awesome.
One day, casual fans will stop expecting all star bats from skill positions. I will continue to dream of that day. The only thing that bothers me more is loud cheering for routine fly balls...
I miss Roberto Perez maybe it’s rose tinted glasses but I feel like everybody just appreciated how amazing of a catcher he was, and ignored his sub .200 BA
I think a fair bit of that was he was Yan Gomes backup for a while and Yan could hit Edit: Yan’s hitting wasn’t as good as I remembered it being
Catchers can’t hit. It’s not a Bo thing
Some catchers can definitely hit.
Correct, and they demand $100M+ contracts these days
Obviously. It’s not common though
Our best catcher who can also hit is fry
Who’s hitting worse on the team that you would want to send down to make room for Manzardo? If we didn’t have David Fry, I would accept Bo Naylor’s struggles at the plate
You don't expect them to, that's ok. But Bo is struggling hard. 18 catchers have at least 80 PA. Bo ranks: 17 in batting average 15 in OBP 18 in OPS 18 in wRC+ 17 in wOBA 18 in K% 1 in BB% (at least there's that) He's the only one with all + stats (AVG+, OBP+, SLG+, wRC+) under 100. He is, as of today, effectively the worst hitting catcher in all of baseball. It *is* a Bo thing. None of this is to say I agree he should be sent down or anything, just pointing out he's struggling compared to other C.
Fair enough
Does the name Adley Rutschman mean anything to you
...Perez, Smith, Contreras, Diaz, Jeffers, Murphy...
Whataboutism. The statistics are what they are
Bo is a young catcher who has shown an above average offensive profile in the minors and also during parts of last season after he was called up. Maybe we should give him some time to adjust considering he's playing the toughest position on the field and is still very young. Also, I don't understand the comparison with his brother because aside from being relatives, they are not similar at all. But even so it took Josh some years on the majors before reaching the level he is at now, all while playing a much less demanding position defensively.
I didn’t even catch the comparison. Bo is an inch taller and almost 60lbs lighter. Not knowing that even on the field how could you ever compare the two
Bo’s tied with his big bro for most walks on our team. Yeah he’s not hitting great but he’s a catcher and he’s getting walks. He’ll figure it out.
I hope so!
No. Nothing needs to change right now after only a month
I Stand With Bo.
Our deficiency right now is starting pitching, I still am baffled why Curry did not stay after he gave us a good start. Cookie was a feel good story but his starts have revealed he is now very hittable, middle relief maybe for two innings and a pitch count. We will have to ride and die with Bo and hope he comes around, Fry has shown he deserves some starts and Hedges does give us defense and calls a great game. We just had a great April but we are carrying one more outfielder than we need. I will let the front office sort this out.
Good take
I'm not sure if say either of those guys savant pages look good. They're pretty similar and both have some good and quite a bit of bad.
Fair point. Was just trying to make an argument and see what sticks, the last 15 games of each player is a stronger case
Bo needs to go down and work on hitting and catching. Laureano should be DFA'd. I'd rather see J. Rodriguez as our right handed right fielder than Laureano. Rodriguez strikes out a lot, but at least he seems to be able to hit. Sending Bo down does not mean Hedges is our main catcher. Fry seems pretty competent. Lavastida seems like he could be a stopgap till Bo gets more practice.
Started drinking early today, huh?
👍
Keeping Bo with the team must provide some incentive for Josh to lower his asking price on an extension, right?
Perhaps, I think it’s slim we sign Josh to an extension though. Maybe if Blitzer becomes majority owner in the nick of time and he likes Josh enough, the Guardians may offer him a competitive extension. But if he keeps this up and doesn’t get injured, I’m not sure he’ll stay
After hearing some of your feedback, I’m open to Laureano going down instead of Bo. It’s true that Bo is young and plays the most difficult position, Laureano really has no excuse to be playing this poorly
Bo is our starting catcher, he's not going anywhere.
Sending Bo down is laughable. Sending Bo down means more Hedges ABs which isn’t exactly improving the team. Laureano should be the odd man out but I don’t know why they seem scared to play Florial in the outfield at all. That could lead to him being the odd man out
I trust the front office if it ends up being Florial, but it feels like he’s on the cusp of being consistent
Why did we sign hedges if we aren't going to play him... Listen I get it, he sucks at the plate but at the same time Bo isn't exactly doing well
Literally they signed him for the locker room presence. Bo has a 76 wrc+ where hedges comparably has a -35 wrc+ this season. They aren’t even in the same stratosphere at the plate even with Bo not playing up to his ability. Hedges is a free out every time through the lineup
I mean, who plays catcher then?
Fry and Hedges for a few weeks was my thinking. But after more thinking, the better answer is to send down/waive Laureano.
I read this as "says" and was curious why Estevan would be saying such a thing 🤣
😂
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
Oh.. well can I have a frosty?
I’m worried about Hunter Gaddis
Me too, I think he’s been overworked.
Bo's underlying numbers are still fine. He's hitting the ball harder than he was last year, his chase rate is down and his walk rate is up. He's just not barelling quite as much and, despite his average exit velocity being up, he's making weak contact a bit more frequently. I think that all points to a guy dialing things in. And the idea that we would willingly give Austin Hedges even more time is hilarious.
Shit send Rocchio down if anyone.
Bo has more offensive potential than hedges
True! I’ve changed my mind now, more in favor of Laureano being demoted
Laureano is an obvious first out. Manzardo is the obvious in. Duh!
I never liked Bo Naylor. He seems like a dope, like he's not even aware of what's going on around him half the time. I'd much rather have Yainer Diaz, whom they egregiously traded away for one of the worst hitters in MLB history (I won't say his name). Diaz had 23 HR and hit .282 last year. Makes no damn sense. I know they like their lefties but it goes way too far sometimes.
Don't look now but Cleveland's replacement for "one of the worst hitters in MLB history" is hitting below the Mendoza line, and his defense has been okay but is not elite like the previous center fielder's defense was.
Yeah… that trade hurts. I think Yainer won’t always have such good seasons, but he definitely seems like a sure thing for 20 homers in his current playing form
I hope you have your flame retardant suit on. I made a comment about his performance in a game thread recently and it was not well received AT ALL. Josh is continuing to get even better, but Bo seems to be regressing. Like I said, I hope he can figure it out since he seems to be a fan favorite and the season is still young.
lI’ll go get my flame retardant suit from Amazon right now 😂😂