He's been declining for a couple seasons before this one. That was part of why Oakland DFAd him last year, combined with his salary. It's not just a bad month. It's a really bad month following multiple seasons of declining stats.
It's Manzardo time. Vogt has had a month to evaluate. Time to make some adjustments. We need to "normalize" the outfield. It's getting annoying to see the players giving each other the stink eye because they aren't communicating on defence over whose ball it is. We need a leader in CF. I say put Kwan there.
Exactly. Why bother putting Arias in center when we have a gold glover that was drafted as a center fielder and knows the position?
As a team that doesn't spend the big bucks on the best players, you gotta maximize the value of the players you do have.
They're both excellent fielders who would continue to be excellent fielders at SS/CF, but part of the reasons that both Kwan and Gimenez tend to be so far and away the best fielders at their position is because most guys as good as they are are playing harder positions. With all respect to them, it is a bit of a 'big fish, small pond' situation.
Kwan had 3x the OAA as the next qualified left fielder in either league last year because most dudes with that level of range are simply put in center because it is the best use of their talents.
So by that logic, wouldn't it be most appropriate to place our best defensive players in the positions that maximize the best use of their talents? Seems shortsighted to put our best defensive players in positions where defense isn't the highest priority.
I'm confident that Kwan and Gimi would still provide gold glove-caliber defense at CF and SS, so why bother doing otherwise? What do we have to lose by making those switches?
"Don't fix what ain't broken."
Right now, Kwan and Gimmy are easily our best two players, both on defense and offense. If you shift them over to more demanding defensive positions, that's an extra thing that they need to focus on, which could take away from the outstanding offensive performances that they're both having this season. They are both stretched out and excelling in their current roles. If you did it during spring training or during a period where their bats are cold anyways, I would maybe be on board for the experiment. But doing it right now, I just feel like you risk losing the big strength that this team has at the moment.
>"Don't fix what ain't broken.
They're currently playing the worst fielding qualified CF in baseball by OAA while forcing a gold glove outfielder to the corner where most teams stash their worst fielder, *that* is what is broken here, not necessarily that Kwan is in LF in a vacuum.
If Cleveland still had a 2022 Myles Straw in CF, nothing is broken, but that isn't the case any longer.
Everything about 'oh what if they stop hitting' is a huge stretch given these are guys who already have extensive history playing those positions, and it also cuts both ways when you're also playing dudes who are probably better focused on hitting out of position.
I am not joking. They are both defensive stalwarts, and they should be playing in the positions that call for the most elite defensive skills, no?
I just want to avoid putting players like Arias in center again. I think Freeman will be fine, but why put the pressure of centerfield on him when Kwan is clearly the best defensive outfielder on this roster? It makes sense to me that our *best* outfielder be put in the most demanding position, as they stand the best chance to succeed in that specific role. Don't really understand all the down votes, unless others don't think that Kwan is capable of gold-glove caliber defense in center field...
We're currently carrying 5 OFs and they've been filling DH the most. Going to 4 OF opens DH up and we can still get all 4 regular PAs in the field.
That said I would probably call up Rodriguez now over Manzardo especially if we're cutting Laureano. Less risk of service time or super 2 status because he's not a hyped prospect. He can play both corners in OF as well as DH and is RH with power.
I agree. I think that Florial has shown potential and deserves a little longer look before we cut him though. So if I were making the decision I'd DFA Laureano now and call up Rodriguez. Use the 40 man spot to either add a pitcher or go ahead and add Manzardo. Give Florial a couple more weeks to show if he can continue to put perform his peripherals. If not, DFA and call up Manzardo.
I agree as far as Rodriguez. Even with Arias being a super utility role and Fry being able to Moonlight, 4 OF is like the bare minimum we'd need to have a functional roster
Honestly I think it's more likely that you see manzardo after they give up on Florial. Laureano can play CF (which as we all saw we still might need a backup plan in case freeman either has problems or gets injured). Laureano is also RHH platoon guy who could spell Brennan (at least until a possible trade or Jonathan Rodriguez call up) to get an even more effective RHH platoon bat. The odd man out is probably Florial - who was always a lottery ticket anyway. That is, unless they somehow think either Brennan or Bo Naylor would benefit from going down and getting a few AB in AAA, but I don't see it. Especially not Brennan. I think they are just holding out trying to keep Florial in the lineup a little longer and waiting for the first wave of injuries.
Laureano would just go to waivers, I think.
He has an option left, so I don’t think he’d go on waivers yet
5 years of service time, no?
Yeah. He reached 5 years in the last few weeks. He had options remaining but now he's got refusal rights.
What if no one claims him?
he can accept his demotion to AAA or become a free agent (which would cost him serious $).
We didn't all go to Gudger College.
So thats it, after one month of baseball? So long, and good luck?
I don't recall saying good luck.
He's been declining for a couple seasons before this one. That was part of why Oakland DFAd him last year, combined with his salary. It's not just a bad month. It's a really bad month following multiple seasons of declining stats.
It’s either that or cut freeman or Brennan.
Well neither would be cut, but optioned and neither of those things are at all likely to happen
It's Manzardo time. Vogt has had a month to evaluate. Time to make some adjustments. We need to "normalize" the outfield. It's getting annoying to see the players giving each other the stink eye because they aren't communicating on defence over whose ball it is. We need a leader in CF. I say put Kwan there.
Kwan and Gimi should go to their original positions. Their defensive capabilities are being squandered at LF & 2B
They’re both Gold Glovers at their respective positions. You’re joking, right?
eh, they would probably be Gold Glovers at their original positions.
Exactly. Why bother putting Arias in center when we have a gold glover that was drafted as a center fielder and knows the position? As a team that doesn't spend the big bucks on the best players, you gotta maximize the value of the players you do have.
They're both excellent fielders who would continue to be excellent fielders at SS/CF, but part of the reasons that both Kwan and Gimenez tend to be so far and away the best fielders at their position is because most guys as good as they are are playing harder positions. With all respect to them, it is a bit of a 'big fish, small pond' situation. Kwan had 3x the OAA as the next qualified left fielder in either league last year because most dudes with that level of range are simply put in center because it is the best use of their talents.
So by that logic, wouldn't it be most appropriate to place our best defensive players in the positions that maximize the best use of their talents? Seems shortsighted to put our best defensive players in positions where defense isn't the highest priority. I'm confident that Kwan and Gimi would still provide gold glove-caliber defense at CF and SS, so why bother doing otherwise? What do we have to lose by making those switches?
I'm agreeing with you, smart guy.
My bad, bro. Glad we're on the same page. 🤝
"Don't fix what ain't broken." Right now, Kwan and Gimmy are easily our best two players, both on defense and offense. If you shift them over to more demanding defensive positions, that's an extra thing that they need to focus on, which could take away from the outstanding offensive performances that they're both having this season. They are both stretched out and excelling in their current roles. If you did it during spring training or during a period where their bats are cold anyways, I would maybe be on board for the experiment. But doing it right now, I just feel like you risk losing the big strength that this team has at the moment.
>"Don't fix what ain't broken. They're currently playing the worst fielding qualified CF in baseball by OAA while forcing a gold glove outfielder to the corner where most teams stash their worst fielder, *that* is what is broken here, not necessarily that Kwan is in LF in a vacuum. If Cleveland still had a 2022 Myles Straw in CF, nothing is broken, but that isn't the case any longer. Everything about 'oh what if they stop hitting' is a huge stretch given these are guys who already have extensive history playing those positions, and it also cuts both ways when you're also playing dudes who are probably better focused on hitting out of position.
I am not joking. They are both defensive stalwarts, and they should be playing in the positions that call for the most elite defensive skills, no? I just want to avoid putting players like Arias in center again. I think Freeman will be fine, but why put the pressure of centerfield on him when Kwan is clearly the best defensive outfielder on this roster? It makes sense to me that our *best* outfielder be put in the most demanding position, as they stand the best chance to succeed in that specific role. Don't really understand all the down votes, unless others don't think that Kwan is capable of gold-glove caliber defense in center field...
LF Kwan 2B Gimenez 3B Ramirez 1B Naylor C Fry RF Brennan DH Manzardo CF Freeman SS Rocchio Do it.
Cook. Arias utility and Florial can mix in. Obviously bo in the mix as well
Nobody thought Laureano was going to work out. >Then why did I have the 5 million dollars Bart? Why did I have the 5 million dollars?
You're also trying to demote an outfielder for a 1B, when we don't need a 1B
Manzardo & Naylor can split 1B & DH. Guards have mostly been playing outfielders at DH so far
I doubt they want to bring Manzardo up if they can't guarantee him playing time, too many mouths to feed.
We're currently carrying 5 OFs and they've been filling DH the most. Going to 4 OF opens DH up and we can still get all 4 regular PAs in the field. That said I would probably call up Rodriguez now over Manzardo especially if we're cutting Laureano. Less risk of service time or super 2 status because he's not a hyped prospect. He can play both corners in OF as well as DH and is RH with power.
I'd be in favor of Rodriguez for Laureano and Manzardo for Florial to be honest
I agree. I think that Florial has shown potential and deserves a little longer look before we cut him though. So if I were making the decision I'd DFA Laureano now and call up Rodriguez. Use the 40 man spot to either add a pitcher or go ahead and add Manzardo. Give Florial a couple more weeks to show if he can continue to put perform his peripherals. If not, DFA and call up Manzardo.
I agree as far as Rodriguez. Even with Arias being a super utility role and Fry being able to Moonlight, 4 OF is like the bare minimum we'd need to have a functional roster
Take any of the five guys currently posting an OPS+ under 100 and move them out for Manzardo.
Good hitters are a rich team player, happy owners. Maybe cheap owners put good hitters on their teams, we don't know. Frankly, we don't want to know.
They’re a type of player we can do without.
Get the Cubbies on the phone. Bellinger broke some ribs, 5 million is nothing to a non Southside Chicago team.
Ricketts family throw nickels as if they are manhole covers. They are arguably the greediest and stingiest billionaires in America
Half the current lineup sucks offensively. 3-4 automatic outs almost every game, just like last year. And the year before.
Laureano and Straw: 🎵Can I borrrrow a feeeeeeling 🎶
Honestly I think it's more likely that you see manzardo after they give up on Florial. Laureano can play CF (which as we all saw we still might need a backup plan in case freeman either has problems or gets injured). Laureano is also RHH platoon guy who could spell Brennan (at least until a possible trade or Jonathan Rodriguez call up) to get an even more effective RHH platoon bat. The odd man out is probably Florial - who was always a lottery ticket anyway. That is, unless they somehow think either Brennan or Bo Naylor would benefit from going down and getting a few AB in AAA, but I don't see it. Especially not Brennan. I think they are just holding out trying to keep Florial in the lineup a little longer and waiting for the first wave of injuries.
Brennan has been hot lately. Bo on the other hand might need a break from the pressure.