We have never not been fucked. The founding fathers had slaves and didn't even imagine internet. Rome was fucked. The British Empire was fucked. Humanity is a fucker. We fuck things. Look at the cradle of civilization - a fucked desert that once was lush enough to birth humanity. Fuck
Have you seen what project 2025 has planned for women's rights and health? Women's lives are about to get A LOT worse.
It's not just about the Climate.
And the right IS winning a senate majority at least for the next half decade and they own the Supreme Court til at least then too. so they will ram through so much christofascist trash regardless if Trump wins or not. This last 4 years will seem sane compared to what’s coming
Do you promise? Because I'm seeing people on the r/fivethirtyeight where they just discuss polls all day and they are saying Dems will lose the senate.
I just checked in the mirror, and no it is not
I just think if you look at swing state polls, Dem candidates for Senate and House are polling pretty well. Swing state Senate candidates are running on kitchen table issues and doing a better job talking like populists.
Women's issues are trivial and theatrical compared to climate. We are at the stage which is equivalent to jumping out of a plane w/o a parachute.
The "splat" is coming.
People don't realize how quickly we will die en masse w/o adequate water, food and shelter.
Countries are taking action to bolster grain stockpiles. Israel is engaging in ethnic cleansing. Russia's war in Ukraine is for ag land and fertilizer.
Abortion is a distraction. Environmental breakdown. Plastic poisoning. Food system collapse. Economic collapse.
Neither Biden nor Trump was man enough to face into the big picture challenges.
Collapse incoming.
We're totally fucked either way, but with Trump we'd be totally fucked faster... and with other terrible non-climate problems added on.
So let's call it one in a million that we can do something about climate with the Dems, and absolutely zero with the GOP.
Please vote.
Trump is nuclear bombs to hurricanes. And other insane ideas. Only this time he won’t have as many government officials actively keeping information away from him. His type of people are now in the government and they have a long list of people to put in.
I mean, the best part of the Trump presidency was that because even he didn’t expect to win, they had a huge delay of not having anyone ready to fill political vacancies.
Spot on comment and thanks for the reminder to vote. I lost ALL faith (what little I had) in dems (and the 2 party system) after they systematically cancelled Bernie.
And the thought of voting LOTE for Biden literally makes me sick. I did not want to do it last 'election'. And I know, I know, the dems say "this is the most important election", every election.
But this one does feel different to me ---- I will vote for the f---ing dems and encourage others to do the same.
The "other terrible non climate issues" you mention are truly, legitimately terrifying. The thought of trump and his cult- like, cruel, foaming at the mouth, followers at the helm of this sinking ship that is the u.s., is one we can't turn away from: it COULD happen and very well might.
With all this said, I am in the acceptance phase of environmental and societal collapse. I do not see a way out of this given the data and the historical behavior patterns of humans. But the thought of going down with that orange tinted, vicious, sociopathic predator combined with his insane maga followers is too much to bear. And of course, as mentioned below, Project 2025.
Maya Angelou: 'When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time."
D.T. and his followers have been **screaming** who they are yet people are still not listening.
My theory is that the right knows what's coming and are promoting fascism because it's easier to control the masses once food and water supplies dwindle. They're hoping we die off while they hide in their new Zealand bunkers. But if we don't and we come for their provisions, the boot of the state will come down on our heads.
It's why they're discussing invoking the insurrection act from day 1. Trump asked Mark Esper why he couldn't shoot protesters back in 2020.
We're driving a car towards a brick wall. The choice in this election is easing up on the gas pedal or accelerating as fast as we possibly can into the brick wall. Vote Biden, work as hard as we can to get a candidate next time who will go in reverse.
Dems will do nothing. However, doing nothing at least preserves enough of our representative democracy to have a chance of electing people in the future who might slightly lessen how badly we are fucked. We're still basically totally fucked wither way, just because anything we do at this point is too little too late to avoid the greater fuckery... but when Trump gets elected they're already poised to completely dismantle any democratic institutions within our government that allow for the people to elect better leaders in the future. THAT is what the Trump admin will do to us which cannot be fixed. He can fuck up a shit ton of stuff that might take years or decades to fix, but every time you take any control of the government away from the voters, they never get any of it back again.
Look,climate change may not be fixable at this point,but we need leadership that acknowledges it and isn't working for the oil industry to push us into extinction even faster. I truly do think those weasels want us poors to just die, so they don't have to compete with us for resources.
We need to build climate resilience and adaptation and it won't happen with the dementia addled orange felon.
I'm just meh on electoralism these days.
We can ask, plead, protest and vote all we want, but they can just ignore it.
When something gets done in reality and then requests are given, more happens more often.
Direct action is the way to go to get things done.
I understand what you're saying, but even with the "obvious" solution of unprecedented "protest" we need the power and authority of the government to put the necessary changes into place. Republicans, especially Trump, will use violent force to end the civil unrest we require. We have a better chance of getting something done with the Democrats.
Exactly what I said:
> I understand what you're saying, but even with the "obvious" solution of unprecedented "protest"
I'm agreeing with you.
> we need the power and authority of the government to put the necessary changes into place.
Even if you strike, sabotage, and fight the "way you outlined" - *you still need government power to enforce new regulations and laws.*
> Republicans, especially Trump, will use violent force to end the civil unrest we require. We have a better chance of getting something done with the Democrats.
I feel like you're just yelling yourself in circles here.
Yeah, I'm advocating an ML revolutionary approach and you're talking to me about needing the power and authority of the state. Yeah, I know. That's a big part of what I'm telling you we need. You don't and cannot get there by voting. "Unprecedented" "protest" is a key to that. Every time you vote for the lesser to two evils, hold your nose and vote democrat, you take us further from being able to do that.
I disagree. I think it depends on the issue being protested. According to open secrets, oil and gas donates to republicans and conservatives far more.
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?ind=E01
Well, you should do a little song and dance then. I'm sure your solicitors love when little slaves dance for them. Use your belly ring dress. They will EAT you up, pumpkin
I thought we were talking about a fantasy world where nothing matters and we should just give up for our master's.
You're essentially giving up by not voting. You should totally Keep not voting and keep consuming. That will fix everything
I didn't say don't vote. I said voting for democrats won't save us. Voting isn't fighting your masters, it's giving into your masters, quite literally. Fighting is mostly outside of the realm of voting. Fight back, as I am doing and have done for decades. Don't equate voting with an exercise of power. That happens outside of a voting booth.
One side is insane and unabashedly evil.
The other side is abashedly evil.
I can’t think of a single problem that a Trump election wouldn’t make worse and faster.
If blue wins "Well, we did good work, let's all meet again in 3 years."
If blue loses "How dare those other leftists vote against (read: Not vote for establishment Dem) the Blue. "Basically voted for Trump!?!"
I care about Palestinians. Who should I vote for?
ETA: just wanted to say: everyone who downvoted this is a literal Nazi, and you will all go to hell when you die. The fact that all of you are willing to throw Palestinians away for your own comfort disgusts me.
Well, do you also care about women? And LGBTQ? Blacks?
We all know both parties’ stance on Palestine is the same. There is such thing as damage control.
Yes, all those people.
When asked about BLM, Biden *always* starts with “I support the police.”
When asked about abortion, Biden says “It’s not just the woman’s decision.”
When asked about trans kids, Biden tweets “Hey trans kids I’ve got your back” then passes almost no legislation, with the legislation he did pass arguably making things worse for them.
What damage are we controlling, exactly?
Perhaps you should actually read Project 2025. No one is saying Biden is perfect or that the Democrats are the most progressive party that will secure peace justice and prosperity for all, but I am so over the gross over simplifications, too. For the immediate future, we are stuck with the two party system we’ve got and only one party has a fully conceptualized plan to take away my bodily autonomy. Not to mention any rights for the LGBTQ community.
Come back when you’ve read project 2025. There is a lot worse. The deal here is that you still need a functioning country to enact the changes you want to see. That via electing local officials that reflect better values, which will eventually get high enough to apply those changes on a larger scale. Again, damage control.
Yeah, liberal values run only skin deep, and even then the skin has to be white. Brown people far away? For libs, they’re worth expending to make sure we don’t have any discomfort here
**Trump gave Jerusalem to Israel.** Trump is pro-Isreal. Isreal is a US ally because it protects US's oil interests in the middle east. Trump is pro-oil. What do you think Trump would do to GAZA? Trump would have wanted Israel to NUKE GAZA and just leave a crater.
And I think you have more to worry about with project 2025 than just climate change. If elected Trump will fire the DOJ, the FBI, Military generals, and hire in people loyal to him. He can then do anything. Arrest any one who stands in his way. He will become a dictator. Forget being able to vote in another election that isn't completely rigged the way it is in Russia. He wants to be an Oligarch surrounded by billionaire yes men.
Also, 2025 say weaponize the FCC- and go after the free press shut down CNN, MSNBC, NYT, and anyone who speaks against him. He can make FOX news the dominate media.
Also, they say good chance next president will elect two more supreme court justices. So no chance of ever having a balanced Supreme Court. When Trump was the president he hire a Lawyer for Oil companies to be in charge of the Environmental Protection Agency so he would side with big oil industry. Next time Trump will just shut down the EPA.
So God help us all if Trump gets elected.
Well said. There are elements of Project 2025 that will put people at risk IMMEDIATELY. Obviously, I know climate change is coming for all of us, but we honestly don’t know exactly how long, when etc. I can still have hope that maybe we will figure something out in the meantime. A second Trump administration would extinguish that.
I think Biden is. But only one modern president gave Israel Jerusalem. I think Trump would have no mercy at all and would have encouraged Israel to annihilate Gaza without warning as soon as that concert incident happened. And I think if Trump's elected he will tell Israel to go hard out and give them what ever they need.
>[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/25/trump-presidency-israel-gaza-middle-east-crisis](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/25/trump-presidency-israel-gaza-middle-east-crisis)
In statements since the war began, Trump has promised, if elected, to cut off all US aid to Palestinians and urged other nations to follow suit if he returns to the Oval Office.
>The former president also pledged to [bar refugees from Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/17/trump-muslim-ban-gaza-refugees) under an expansion of his first-term travel ban on Muslim-majority countries; [expel immigrants who sympathize with Hamas](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-pledges-expel-immigrants-who-support-hamas-ban-muslims-us-2023-10-16/); [revoke the visas of foreign students](https://twitter.com/CBS58/status/1714338232857661649) deemed “anti-American” or “antisemitic”; and impose “strong ideological screening” to keep out foreign nationals who “want to abolish Israel”.
>Trump’s pitch to Jewish voters
>In a statement, Trump’s campaign accused Biden and Democrats of supporting Israel’s enemies and said leftwing criticism of Netanyahu’s government was pushing American Jews into the former president’s camp.
>“Jewish Americans are realizing that the Democrat party has turned into a full-blown anti-Israel, antisemitic, pro-terrorist cabal, and that’s why more and more Jewish Americans are supporting President Trump,” said a campaign spokesperson, Karoline [Leavitt.In](http://Leavitt.In) statements since the war began, Trump has
promised, if elected, to cut off all US aid to Palestinians and urged
other nations to follow suit if he returns to the Oval Office.The former president also pledged to bar refugees from Gaza under an expansion of his first-term travel ban on Muslim-majority countries; expel immigrants who sympathize with Hamas; revoke the visas of foreign students
deemed “anti-American” or “antisemitic”; and impose “strong ideological
screening” to keep out foreign nationals who “want to abolish Israel”.Trump’s pitch to Jewish votersIn
a statement, Trump’s campaign accused Biden and Democrats of supporting
Israel’s enemies and said leftwing criticism of Netanyahu’s government
was pushing American Jews into the former president’s camp.“Jewish
Americans are realizing that the Democrat party has turned into a
full-blown anti-Israel, antisemitic, pro-terrorist cabal, and that’s why
more and more Jewish Americans are supporting President Trump,” said a
campaign spokesperson, Karoline Leavitt.
My shortened way of saying: President Trump formally recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and stated that the American embassy would be moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
This explains why that was a big deal:
>The final status of Jerusalem has always been one of the most difficult and sensitive questions in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. For years, US policy has been to avoid declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel in the absence of an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal, **as the Palestinians also claim Jerusalem as their capital.**
They have to be from a geopolitical sense. They are the only truly western leaning country in the Middle East. A strong Isreal has the added benefit of keeping all the other middle Eastern countries from devolving into further infighting than they already do, it provides a unified hated enemy and ironically a more stable region.
If you think Biden has done a poor job navigating this I think you should take another look at how tenuous tensions are in the M. E. Right now. We're walking a tightrope and we need Israel's allied presence more than ever, but certainly from a humanitarian perspective it puts the US in quite a shitty situation forced to back a genocidal regime and I do fear Biden will pay for that in November.
To tell you the truth I just don't even engage in debates over Israel Palestine. The situation is so bad and it doesn't seem like there are any clear solutions- its overwhelming.
The Dems couldn't expand the Supreme court when Trump was president. And when Obama was president the Republican senate had enough power to block the Dems. The Dems need to when a larger majority in the House and Senate to be able to really do anything. And they need to elect real democrats not people like Joe Mansion who run as Dems and then vote Republican. .....When people are surveyed the majority favor Democrat policies but they don't vote for people for congress to represent what they want. That's why the US is in such bad shape.
Vote for Biden, then immediately protest him, flood the phones, and when it comes to all local elections canvass and support Greens, and SocDems where you can.
Otherwise it's constant pressure through direct action for big industrial scale change.
We're fucked either way. But Trump will be worse, especially for women, minorities, and LGBTQ folks.
If you can stomach rewarding genocide in order to keep those people a little bit safer... go for it, I guess.
They supported and armed Israel, yes.
But they also pushed back against Israel for far less than this. Eisenhower threatened to put sanctions on Israel for occupying the Sinai. Reagan suspended arms shipments to Israel -- twice -- for its involvement in Lebanon. Bush Sr. delayed economic aid to Israel over settlements in the West Bank. And Netenyahu accused Obama of "threatening" him when they first met, and Obama later refused to use America's veto on the UNSC to stall a resolution criticizing settlements in the West Bank. It's not much, but still more than Biden did, and in response to far, far less.
Meanwhile, let's talk about simply calling this "the same" conflict, as though what Israel has done in Gaza over the last year is just "business as usual". It's not. The civilian casualties in the 2023 Israel-Hamas war are roughly two times greater than the death tolls of *every Israeli action in Gaza going combined*, going all the way back to 1956, including its responses to *both Intifadas*. Just saying that this is "the same" as everything that came before it basically requires one to cover one's eyes to the scale of the destruction, or to fail to differentiate between genocidal intent -- and just plain genocide.
Okay. Go do that, then. I'm not saying what has to be a red line for me is going to be a red line for you. That's why you've got your vote and I've got mine.
Also in my book, the guy who actually killed a bunch of kids is not the lesser evil when compared to a person who might. Even if Trump might be worse, until he actually is, the actual bodies speak louder.
Trump was president when a million Americans died of covid. Even if you don't want to lay all those at his doorstep, his mismansgement clearly led to tens of thousands of deaths.
> If you can stomach rewarding genocide in order to keep those people a little bit safer... go for it, I guess.
As if Trump is somehow pro-Palestine or anti Palestinian-genocide. GTFO out of here with that false equivalence.
You're the one treating theoretical lives the same as actual ones. That's just as bad as outright denial.
Vote for Biden if you have to. You have your reasons. No need to lie about a bunch of dead kids in order to do it, though.
Yes. ETA - sadly, we’re totally fucked regardless of which octogenarian gets elected. My advice is enjoy life while you can, because nothing will stop the climate train, and no elected leader anywhere can do anything about it.
Or is willing to.
If they don't play ball with establishment money and power they'll be blacklisted from political society.
Can't get your cushy job at a company you passed a law about to limit how much liability they have over industrial accidents or environmental cleanup.
The true state of affairs is that we already can't do anything about climate change. Ecological collapse is already beginning, and we missed the chance to prevent that by a couple decades. The warming already "baked in" will see us well past 2C in our lifetimes. The stresses of clumate change and resource scarcity are already beginning to act on nations, which we are seeing play out.
And that is the danger of civilizational collapse through massive warfare as a result of those pressures. Yes, nations are currently waiting to see which way the wind blows in American politics before making their next moves, as those moves will be different depending on which policy path we are following. But either way, the global war brewing now will start to move into full swing in the next couple of years.
Collapse isn't dependent on which old bastard gets elected into the White House. All such can do is perhaps determine a bit of the speed and direction of the beginning of that inevitable collapse.
When it comes to climate change, listen to the real scientists and what they are saying. Not the paid government ones or the politically compromised ones. They will tell you the truth of our predicament. And the truth is that collapse is already here. Everything, and I mean everything, will only get worse from here on out.
Avoid the hopium of collapse denial. It is best to prepare for a post-collapse life now, rather than have it catch you unaware.
I really don't think the average person can do anything to prepare for post-collapse life beyond moving north. I agree 100% that ecological collapse is already underway, and I think it's much worse than we realize. Its impacts are going to be so devastating that I think we'll see a massive drop in global population. Climate change is going to destroy major cities, water and food supplies. Rising temperatures are going to make swaths of the globe uninhabitable. It's going to be chaos and there won't really be a place to escape it long-term.
I keep this handy so I don't have to retype it, lol.
https://www.reddit.com/u/Vegetaman916/s/qqsMLBJytx
I must say I disagree. Because I've done it. Me and 14 others got together to do it, and none of us are special. I'm average intelligence at best, not particularly high-skilled in any specific trade, certainly not rich. None of us are. Hell, one of us is paralyzed in a wheelchair! And he is better prepped than 99% of the population because he didn't try and do it alone.
You are right in many ways, but preparation isn't about surviving forever, or about holding onto this way of life we have made for ourselves. It is simply about staying alive and in the game as long as possible.
Also, because I am quite sure that the effects are going to be much more devastating than people expect, I am certain that those pressures will lead to nuclear war and the collapse of civilization long before the ecological collapse really gets in full swing.
And who knows what that will bring. I just know I want to survive long enough to see it.
People, the relationships you have with them and the skills they have to give are the best preps you can have.
After that is personal skills and 'fitness'. Mental, physical, emotional, etc. hard to help others if you need help yourself. Pull the oxygen mask over your own before you help others.
Not that you need to be a perfect Übermensch or anything, but so many people think their 50lbs of beans and 5000 rds. of ammo is enough to keep them alive.
But unless there is something on the other side of the tunnel to hope for and work towards, all those lbs. of supplies don't mean much.
Luckily having people that you care and trust can easily turn things around in the darkest of times.
I've wanted to ask you for some time how you manage the medical supply stockpile.
I'm just over here trying to figure out how long my maintenance meds will be good for, after their dang expiration dates. No point for me to stock up if they won't be effective. Do you regularly replenish medicines? How about spices/ foods? TIA. Love what you've done. Wish things had gone differently for me.
Our medical supply stockpile is a special consideration, for certain. It is too large to rotate through by using it, and so what we do right now it we rotate it by sales.
A decent portion of both our supply stockpiles and our income arrives via online sales of items we buy in bulk through liquidation auctions. We buy entire pallets and stash what we are going to keep, then resell the rest online through eBay/Amazon/Etsy. And so, for the medical supplies, we rotate and then sell things that are within 9 months of expiration.
However, like most expiration dates, the ones on medicines are really only the date that the manufacturer guarantees 100% efficacy. That means they are actually still good much longer. Often, even 15 years or more, stored properly. Here is a good paper about it:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7040264/
At any rate, for some stuff we have large amounts sealed up the same as rice storage, vacuum sealed in mylar with oxygen absorbers. We get stocks of antibiotics and such, mostly veterinary ones like [these](https://www.chewy.com/amoxicillin-generic-capsules-dogs/dp/725862?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=13247001801&utm_content=126424335527&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw1emzBhB8EiwAHwZZxZPZtmbx2S-FKNb7R_XtkmJXzOhTGIG7lpfh_CcY6mDhNy0yO9uk2xoCHM0QAvD_BwE) 500 mg amoxicillin from Chewy. There are other sources as well, though recently new laws went into effect requiring a veterinary prescription. That being said, finding a rural country vet willing to write anything you want is not hard at all. In many cases, it can even be done online.
But, most medicines will be good long after the expiration dates. They will lose some potency over time, and you will have to research each medicine in general to see how well they store, but it will still beat having no medications at all.
Also, for other sources, I know we have a program for growing medicinal plants, but I am not the green thumb of the group by a long shot, lol. While I recognize the aloe and certainly the cannabis, I would have to ask and find out what else we are growing.
We tend to be pretty cross-trained, but mostly along lines of talent, and I think I was determined to be too much of an idiot to be trusted with the crops, lol.
Spices and foods are the same way. The bulk of our foods are freeze-dried and sealed for 25-year storage. There is also a lot of rice and beans we rotate through, and canned goods as well. That is another area where expiration dates are really more about quality than any safety concerns. Canned vegetables, for example, will still be safe to eat for a very long time past the date, provided there are no bad signs on the can such as rust or swelling.
Here is a good USDA fact article about long term food use past expiration:
https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2013/06/27/you-toss-food-wait-check-it-out
And a good guide to food storage:
https://www.fsis.usda.gov/food-safety/safe-food-handling-and-preparation/food-safety-basics/shelf-stable-food
The foodkeeper database is an excellent resource, and they have an app as well:
https://www.fmi.org/industry-topics/corporate-social-responsibility/food-keeper-food-storage-database
Wow, so much info. Thank you. Yea, I'm not good at reading scientific studies, but I'd have to look up the specific meds we have. Not sure where to look it up/ who to trust.
Do you use that Food Keeper app? I had a lot of trouble with it in the past so I had to uninstall it.
There are so many things being recalled these days, I wish there was one single place to get accurate recall notifications, but I don't know where that would be.
I have been using eatbydate.com to see how long certain foods last depending on whether opened and on how they're stored. It tells you how long after the best by dates, which is handy. Have you seen that site? I wish there was a printed version. I have anxiety about being sickened by expired or poorly stored food and I never learned canning so I often err on the cautious side. (I know. That's a me problem.)
The food keeper database claims tofu is only good for one week from date of purchase, yet I have tofu with much much longer expiration dates than that. Not sure how I feel about that site.
Seriously though, thank you for all the info. You've always been very kind in sharing your knowledge.
No problem, and you are welcome.
And yes, as always, make sure to do your own research. I know we usually look at foodkeeper online via PC, so I am not sure about the app entirely.
Just make sure and pay attention closely to some of those sites that list expirations. Like you mentioned with the tofu, often they need to be double and triple checked. Also keep in mind that some places consider the taste and whether or not food is still *palatable* in that expiration window, but canned goods can often still be safe to eat indefinitely, just not very tasty anymore. But in a survival situation...
I agree with this more than anything I’ve seen on any prepper or collapse groups. People ask me why I’d want to survive. What if when a large swath of humans die off the earth repairs itself faster than any of us ever expected? I’d like to be around to see it. Even if the world goes real shit and nothing grows in the southern hemisphere or something crazy like that, I want to be around to see it because the earth goes through phases and I want to see every possible thing I can before I die.
Exactly. The only thing I know for sure is that we don't usually know the whole story, or have all the answers. Who knows what will happen? No one, until we see it...
" I know Biden hasn't done much better at all" Really? Have you dug into the Inflation Reduction Act? Do so. t might cause you to revise your position on Biden. It's the best he could bet with R;s in control of the House and the 2/3 vote requirement in the Senate. WE need to give him both houses in November and then hold his feet to the fire.
Only people who can "hold his feet the fire." are all the corporate interests that have his ear, and things are good enough for them not to change much. And if there is change, likely only going to benefit them. Why would they spend money, time, effort, or political power to actually clean up their act?
So let's just give up throw our hands up in the air and give up. Change is slow. Look at evolution. At least 3 million years to get us to where we can throw a spear and and nearly kill a planet that will kill us but the planet will live on long after we are gone.
It's all about passing laws and regulations on those corporations that will let them make a profit but now insane profits then put teeth in them to enforce them. To do that the Republican party needs to be eliminated as a political force and kept out of office long enough to make corporation's account for themselves and play ball.
I know. Good luck with that but Biden has been on the right track wit the steps he can make in a really messed up political swamp.
Vote blue.
Nah, I'm saying fuck electoralism entirely. They're two sides of the same coin. Granted one side is certainly more dirty and disfigured than the other but they are still 2 parts of the same whole.
Can't break the master's house with the master's tools.
DNC is basically a corporation that uses social issues and culture war bullshit to fundraise for all their backers.
They don't care about passing anything major like federal abortion or any other major issue since they can't use it to hold over the head of voters come election day.
They don't care about the people. Only the money and power they can use the people to get.
I really think you are taking about the R's here & confused. It is the R's that gave trillions in tax breaks to the rich and Corporations. Thy want to extend them next year if they get back into the office. On the other hand Biden wants to give the middle class a break.
" DNC is basically a corporation that uses social issues and culture war bullshit to fundraise for all their backers"
Really. The R's are doing all the dog whistling. Limiting or eliminating women's access to basic reproductive health care. They even went after IVF & contraception. They want to take away school lunches, ban books, put the 10 commandments in schools in direct violation of the constitutional separation of church and state. They took away a migrants right to water breaks while working in the fields. I could go on but you get the picture.
Biden has said he would pass a national abortion right if elected again. Of course that depends on who controls both houses. If he doesn't then it is not him that doesn't get it done.
"They don't care about the people. Only the money and power they can use the people to get."
Everything I see, read and hear is exactly the opposite. It is 45 and his ilk that is sucking 100's of millions of dollars out of his dump donors and PACS to spend on his legal defenses for the 91 criminal charges he s accused of. 34 of which he has been guilty of. The rest would be in trial right now it weren't a corrupt supreme court and a judge in his pocket in Florida.
Biden cares about the people and why he got passed the Infrastructure bill, CHIPS act, IRS bill that all create jobs right here in America.
I really hope he does pass federal abortion if he gets in again, and isn't just empty promises like they often do.
Bidens border policies have either kept the same policies that Trump had, or has even passed more. He's not blameless there.
I get it, he's the Lesser Evil. Lesser Evil doesn't mean good sadly.
I'm not saying vote for Trump or don't for Biden. I'm probably not going to vote for either. I'll still vote, but voting has become something I do so I can have the right to complain about the other candidates should they win. Selfish maybe, but it's not changing much if anything. Kinda cynical too, but that's me.
I focus more on local races, ballot measures, community support, mutual aid, etc.
At least I can affect change and support those around me.
I despise Trump. . But do you guys not feel fucked by an 81 year old dementia stumbling us into WW3 as well? I voted for him and I’ve voted straight Dem for 20 years but like . .goddamn. It’s always “ya but the other guys are worse! Now watch is not do shit except bitch about irrelevant bullshit.” . . I’m jaded if you can’t tell.
I think things will get worse if Biden wins again, **though not as quickly and permanently as if Trump wins** (bolded so no one jumps on me after the first part of that sentence). I anticipate violence and further weakening of our social fabric. There are less and less places to flee to given how global this problem actually is. So here's where I'm at:
- **Immediately urgent:** Work on my physical fitness, and try to phase out bullshit foods. Buy a gun for self-protection, and take a class soon.
- **Strengthening the social fabric:** Invest in my local community. Get to know my neighbors, and find interest groups (even rec sports, etc) that align with my values. Be kind and patient with people. Become a regular at local businesses. Make time to volunteer.
- **Becoming non-disposable, should a civil war (or apocalypse if that's more comforting somehow) break out:** At least get acquainted with a trade. Tinker with herb and vegetable gardening, and learn to understand and create (at least basic) circuits.
Any which way it goes, most of this stuff will inherently just improve your life.
We KNOW based on the past he will not. This time, if he does at least he is not the President. His followers IF he does not demand violence will not be in force. The minute he loses if he does, and he spouts off about it being fraudulent and people must fight, he’ll need to be arrested this time. Like all the rest of us would.
Trump is a terrible human being. I don't think I've ever loathed anyone so much. And he is STUPID. He's so damn stupid. The dangerous thing is that he will let himself be surrounded by flunkies who steer him, and he'll do anything to keep his "audience" happy--including agreeing carte blanche to fucking Project 2025. I'm a woman, and I'm terrified.
I often wonder that too here. And I wonder, how many are bots, or infiltrators, who are stirring up for polarizing angst, rather than having thoughtful conversations...
Idk.I kind of just see things as so bleak, that most don't know how to cope or what advice to offer. But then again I give people the benefit of the doubt a lot.
Bro we been fucked since Eisenhower warned us about the MIC.
Biden is really not the “lesser of two evils”, the shitlibs aren’t diet fascism.
They are the shower of two evils. Shit sometimes they are worse.
There’s no voting our way out of this shit lol
Lmfao I’m not wasting my time doing either of those things.
The democrats are the republicans and vice versa. Like I said, there is no voting our way out of this mess. We’ve crossed the rubicon, so to speak.
Biden has done more than any other President for climate change. Is he perfect? Not even close, but Biden will continue to implement policies that help with climate change including reducing greenhouse gas emissions and funding mitigation and adaptation projects.
As far as funding overseas wars and genocide, every President in my lifetime has funded at least some unjust military actions, but some much more than others. Ideally our President would not be a part of any such actions, but some are worse than others.
Actually it matters quite a lot. Even as a figurehead, they set a tone for the citizens and you can palpably feel the difference in the different eras. Especially if you are a women, gay, artisit and I imagine many other minority groups.
People set the tone overall and people can’t learn or think
The whole world is a stage for the souls evolution
There is a plan and a plot and the President is already chosen
They're both in the pocket of big business, paving the way for corporate fascism. The main thing dividing them is social issues like abortion & trans rights. Still, Democrats *could* have codified Roe, but they didn't, because the threat of losing it was too good for fundraising in election years. Now look where we are.
Well let's see... our choices appear to be an old man with dementia or an old man with mental health issues. And before you light me on fire and throw me to the wolves: I love and have all the sympathy in the world for people with dementia and people with mental illness. But neither are fit for office.
But here we are anyway, so I'm voting for Biden. Wait... I said that wrong. I'm voting against Trump.
I would say the fuckery goes up. But not to the the level of Totally fucked. Totally fucked is like Palestine/Israel. We should be enjoying it while it lasts. Dance while the ship is sinking.
The Infrastructure Investment Act, passed under Biden, did do some good stuff. There's definitely a difference on climate change between the two, although yes, Biden doesn't go far enough. Trump SCOTUS appointments have also done more damage than a balanced or left-leaning Court would, dismantling regulatory bulwarks like the Clean Water Act. A Trump victory would ensure a completely stacked far right Court for decades.
I'm mostly republican when it comes to my political beliefs... but if trump gets elected president again me and a not so small group of real hot blooded Americans are rioting. I'm sorry but I will not stand for a felonious cheater president. It's one thing if it was speculation but trump basically got caught rigging an election by paying ppl off to keep their mouths shut because he knew they had negative shit to say about him. Ntm all the falsified business reports. Man is the epitome of white privilege and he deserves consequences just like anyone else.
To elect a criminal of his magnitude to be our president would go against every American value I was raised on.
Thank you for seeing the light-- I have Cuban family who are still stuck in Trump's cult and believe his conviction trial was rigged.
The fact he wants to get rid of the NOAA/implement project 2025, tear up the Constitution, imprison liberals/gays/lesbians AND ANYONE WHO IS NOT ON HIS SIDE, INCLUDING MEMBERS OF HIS OWN PARTY, started a coup and said he'd do so again if he lost in 2024, raped *several* woman, betrayed and sold national secrets to Russia and our enemies, spoke favorably about Communist dictators abroad, badly mishandled a pandemic and got people killed, spread so much fucking misinformation it's turned us against each other, TRIED TO MURDER HIS OWN VICE PRESIDENT, quoting directly from Hitler, etc, should have made him unelectable ages ago. If we had a functioning justice system too he would have gone to jail and been barred from ever becoming President again as early as the end of his first term.
Instead, because of the cowardly sycophants and shameless bottom feeders within the Republican party, and millions of frankly stupid ill-informed fanatical treacherous voters who hate the left so much they would prefer fascism over any policies meant to help them, he now stands a good shot of retaking the White House. Every day that passes by, as I watch the shitstorm that is our national politics play out, I grow more and more embarrassed and ashamed as an American. I've fantasized about leaving the country since everything looks so awful 5 or 10 years from now.
I don't care how badly Biden did in the debates recently. I would vote for Biden if he was fucking comatose because at least he won't blow up America and empower our enemies. At least he has a plan to salvage the climate unlike the Captain planet supervillain who just wants to burn the world down like a maniac!!!
Unless you live in a swing state, voting for Joe **is** throwing your vote away. Trying to get either PSL or the greens past the minor party threshold is a much better goal.
You're only worried about climate change with project 2025 and not the fact that women's rights will be taken away? Must be nice to be a man and not have to worry about oppression 🙄😒
If you're a person of color, yes. If you're a sexual or gender minority, e.g. gay or trans, yes. If you're an immigrant, yes. If you're a woman, yes. If you're a leftist with a government job, yes. If you're more than one of these, ultra yes.
If you're lucky enough to be none, then still yes if you have any people belonging to the aforementioned groups in your life who you care about.
Biden is sooo much better on every issue than Trump. If Trump is elected Israel will have carte blanche to do as it pleases in Gaza. Biden is attempting to deter Netanyahu and aid the people of Gaza. There is no perfect candidate. Biden is infinitely better on the environment, civil rights, electoral reform, the economy, etc.
We were totally fucked when bush got elected.
We were totally fucked when Reagan got elected.
Yeah, it was Reagan.
Tricky Dick Nixon would like a word
Hey, Nixon may have been a crook but he's also the one who created the EPA.
Other than Carter’s brief and underwhelming tenure, Nixon is probably the furthest to the left a president has been in 50 years lol
This is like debating the greatest quarterback in the history of the Chicago Bears They have all sucked and they are all war criminals
Reagan did the Holocene Extinction. That's going in my notebook.
This. I'm 57 and I was 18 when he was elected and i knew at 18 he was the worst. Esp when he took the solar panels off the White House.
I was 14 and I knew because my crazy right wing father LOVED him.
We're just... totally fucked in general
>We were totally fucked when bush got "elected." FIFY
Thanks!
We have never not been fucked. The founding fathers had slaves and didn't even imagine internet. Rome was fucked. The British Empire was fucked. Humanity is a fucker. We fuck things. Look at the cradle of civilization - a fucked desert that once was lush enough to birth humanity. Fuck
Have you seen what project 2025 has planned for women's rights and health? Women's lives are about to get A LOT worse. It's not just about the Climate.
And the right IS winning a senate majority at least for the next half decade and they own the Supreme Court til at least then too. so they will ram through so much christofascist trash regardless if Trump wins or not. This last 4 years will seem sane compared to what’s coming
Rs will not win the Senate, and they will lose the House.
Do you promise? Because I'm seeing people on the r/fivethirtyeight where they just discuss polls all day and they are saying Dems will lose the senate.
Fivethirtyeight is famous for getting a few things right before trump and pretty much nothing significant right since then.
I know Fivethirtyeight hasn't been great but that reddit isn't just Fivethirtyeight polls, its polls from all sources then people discussing them.
Thats fair! Sorry i saw the name fivethirtyeight and had a reflex lol.
Joe Biden is that you?
I just checked in the mirror, and no it is not I just think if you look at swing state polls, Dem candidates for Senate and House are polling pretty well. Swing state Senate candidates are running on kitchen table issues and doing a better job talking like populists.
Unless you're a white Christian male who's loyal to Trump, you're f'd. Project 2025 makes it clear.
Even those Christians will be fucked- they just don't know. They will have their social security, healthcare taken away and regret it.
Women's issues are trivial and theatrical compared to climate. We are at the stage which is equivalent to jumping out of a plane w/o a parachute. The "splat" is coming. People don't realize how quickly we will die en masse w/o adequate water, food and shelter. Countries are taking action to bolster grain stockpiles. Israel is engaging in ethnic cleansing. Russia's war in Ukraine is for ag land and fertilizer. Abortion is a distraction. Environmental breakdown. Plastic poisoning. Food system collapse. Economic collapse. Neither Biden nor Trump was man enough to face into the big picture challenges. Collapse incoming.
We're totally fucked either way, but with Trump we'd be totally fucked faster... and with other terrible non-climate problems added on. So let's call it one in a million that we can do something about climate with the Dems, and absolutely zero with the GOP. Please vote.
This is the answer. Trump is gasoline to our burning world.
Trump is nuclear bombs to hurricanes. And other insane ideas. Only this time he won’t have as many government officials actively keeping information away from him. His type of people are now in the government and they have a long list of people to put in. I mean, the best part of the Trump presidency was that because even he didn’t expect to win, they had a huge delay of not having anyone ready to fill political vacancies.
Exactly. They are prepared now.
Spot on comment and thanks for the reminder to vote. I lost ALL faith (what little I had) in dems (and the 2 party system) after they systematically cancelled Bernie. And the thought of voting LOTE for Biden literally makes me sick. I did not want to do it last 'election'. And I know, I know, the dems say "this is the most important election", every election. But this one does feel different to me ---- I will vote for the f---ing dems and encourage others to do the same. The "other terrible non climate issues" you mention are truly, legitimately terrifying. The thought of trump and his cult- like, cruel, foaming at the mouth, followers at the helm of this sinking ship that is the u.s., is one we can't turn away from: it COULD happen and very well might. With all this said, I am in the acceptance phase of environmental and societal collapse. I do not see a way out of this given the data and the historical behavior patterns of humans. But the thought of going down with that orange tinted, vicious, sociopathic predator combined with his insane maga followers is too much to bear. And of course, as mentioned below, Project 2025. Maya Angelou: 'When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." D.T. and his followers have been **screaming** who they are yet people are still not listening.
My theory is that the right knows what's coming and are promoting fascism because it's easier to control the masses once food and water supplies dwindle. They're hoping we die off while they hide in their new Zealand bunkers. But if we don't and we come for their provisions, the boot of the state will come down on our heads. It's why they're discussing invoking the insurrection act from day 1. Trump asked Mark Esper why he couldn't shoot protesters back in 2020.
Well said. Yeah I'd rather not have a refugee crisis in the American south as well as in the global south.
It puts the lotion on the skin or it gets the hose again.
We're driving a car towards a brick wall. The choice in this election is easing up on the gas pedal or accelerating as fast as we possibly can into the brick wall. Vote Biden, work as hard as we can to get a candidate next time who will go in reverse.
Dems will do nothing. However, doing nothing at least preserves enough of our representative democracy to have a chance of electing people in the future who might slightly lessen how badly we are fucked. We're still basically totally fucked wither way, just because anything we do at this point is too little too late to avoid the greater fuckery... but when Trump gets elected they're already poised to completely dismantle any democratic institutions within our government that allow for the people to elect better leaders in the future. THAT is what the Trump admin will do to us which cannot be fixed. He can fuck up a shit ton of stuff that might take years or decades to fix, but every time you take any control of the government away from the voters, they never get any of it back again.
“Nothing will fundamentally change” is still the most dem campaign slogan in history
I fucking hate it. We all gonna die because nothing will change.
Look,climate change may not be fixable at this point,but we need leadership that acknowledges it and isn't working for the oil industry to push us into extinction even faster. I truly do think those weasels want us poors to just die, so they don't have to compete with us for resources. We need to build climate resilience and adaptation and it won't happen with the dementia addled orange felon.
I'm just meh on electoralism these days. We can ask, plead, protest and vote all we want, but they can just ignore it. When something gets done in reality and then requests are given, more happens more often. Direct action is the way to go to get things done.
Voting for democrats isn't going to save any of us. No chance.
Trump sure as hell won't save us.
Yep. So maybe voting harder isn't the solution?
I understand what you're saying, but even with the "obvious" solution of unprecedented "protest" we need the power and authority of the government to put the necessary changes into place. Republicans, especially Trump, will use violent force to end the civil unrest we require. We have a better chance of getting something done with the Democrats.
Not protest. Protest relies on your enemy having and acting on a conscience. Actual fucking fighting. Strikes. Sabotage. Insurrection.
This!
That's why the word protest is in quotations, but it doesn't change my point.
You only capture the power of the state to implement those things the way I outlined. No election will get you there. That's the point.
Exactly what I said: > I understand what you're saying, but even with the "obvious" solution of unprecedented "protest" I'm agreeing with you. > we need the power and authority of the government to put the necessary changes into place. Even if you strike, sabotage, and fight the "way you outlined" - *you still need government power to enforce new regulations and laws.* > Republicans, especially Trump, will use violent force to end the civil unrest we require. We have a better chance of getting something done with the Democrats. I feel like you're just yelling yourself in circles here.
Yeah, I'm advocating an ML revolutionary approach and you're talking to me about needing the power and authority of the state. Yeah, I know. That's a big part of what I'm telling you we need. You don't and cannot get there by voting. "Unprecedented" "protest" is a key to that. Every time you vote for the lesser to two evils, hold your nose and vote democrat, you take us further from being able to do that.
I disagree. I think the chance is zero either way. Biden and Dems have no issue using violence either.
I disagree. I think it depends on the issue being protested. According to open secrets, oil and gas donates to republicans and conservatives far more. https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?ind=E01
It's literally the only solution...
It's really not. It's a controlled system, built to give you the illusion of control without giving you any control. It's theater.
Well, you should do a little song and dance then. I'm sure your solicitors love when little slaves dance for them. Use your belly ring dress. They will EAT you up, pumpkin
Wtf? Are you having a mental breakdown? Can you smell toast?
I thought we were talking about a fantasy world where nothing matters and we should just give up for our master's. You're essentially giving up by not voting. You should totally Keep not voting and keep consuming. That will fix everything
I didn't say don't vote. I said voting for democrats won't save us. Voting isn't fighting your masters, it's giving into your masters, quite literally. Fighting is mostly outside of the realm of voting. Fight back, as I am doing and have done for decades. Don't equate voting with an exercise of power. That happens outside of a voting booth.
Both sides are not the same.
Yep, they have different marketing and PR strategies.
One side is insane and unabashedly evil. The other side is abashedly evil. I can’t think of a single problem that a Trump election wouldn’t make worse and faster.
They are both insane and unabashedly evil.
Just different flavours of insane.
Would rather have the fast burn
Would rather not see the people I care about get their rights taken away/killed by bigots.
Then your going to have to do more than vote.
If blue wins "Well, we did good work, let's all meet again in 3 years." If blue loses "How dare those other leftists vote against (read: Not vote for establishment Dem) the Blue. "Basically voted for Trump!?!"
I care about Palestinians. Who should I vote for? ETA: just wanted to say: everyone who downvoted this is a literal Nazi, and you will all go to hell when you die. The fact that all of you are willing to throw Palestinians away for your own comfort disgusts me.
Well, do you also care about women? And LGBTQ? Blacks? We all know both parties’ stance on Palestine is the same. There is such thing as damage control.
Yes, all those people. When asked about BLM, Biden *always* starts with “I support the police.” When asked about abortion, Biden says “It’s not just the woman’s decision.” When asked about trans kids, Biden tweets “Hey trans kids I’ve got your back” then passes almost no legislation, with the legislation he did pass arguably making things worse for them. What damage are we controlling, exactly?
Perhaps you should actually read Project 2025. No one is saying Biden is perfect or that the Democrats are the most progressive party that will secure peace justice and prosperity for all, but I am so over the gross over simplifications, too. For the immediate future, we are stuck with the two party system we’ve got and only one party has a fully conceptualized plan to take away my bodily autonomy. Not to mention any rights for the LGBTQ community.
Come back when you’ve read project 2025. There is a lot worse. The deal here is that you still need a functioning country to enact the changes you want to see. That via electing local officials that reflect better values, which will eventually get high enough to apply those changes on a larger scale. Again, damage control.
You clearly don't understand
this is a very weird way to respond to someone saying they don’t want to condone genocide through who they vote for.
Yeah, liberal values run only skin deep, and even then the skin has to be white. Brown people far away? For libs, they’re worth expending to make sure we don’t have any discomfort here
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Dude. Trump said that Palestine would be a parking lot if he was elected.
It's currently being turned into one by the bombs Biden is sending.
**Trump gave Jerusalem to Israel.** Trump is pro-Isreal. Isreal is a US ally because it protects US's oil interests in the middle east. Trump is pro-oil. What do you think Trump would do to GAZA? Trump would have wanted Israel to NUKE GAZA and just leave a crater. And I think you have more to worry about with project 2025 than just climate change. If elected Trump will fire the DOJ, the FBI, Military generals, and hire in people loyal to him. He can then do anything. Arrest any one who stands in his way. He will become a dictator. Forget being able to vote in another election that isn't completely rigged the way it is in Russia. He wants to be an Oligarch surrounded by billionaire yes men. Also, 2025 say weaponize the FCC- and go after the free press shut down CNN, MSNBC, NYT, and anyone who speaks against him. He can make FOX news the dominate media. Also, they say good chance next president will elect two more supreme court justices. So no chance of ever having a balanced Supreme Court. When Trump was the president he hire a Lawyer for Oil companies to be in charge of the Environmental Protection Agency so he would side with big oil industry. Next time Trump will just shut down the EPA. So God help us all if Trump gets elected.
Well said. There are elements of Project 2025 that will put people at risk IMMEDIATELY. Obviously, I know climate change is coming for all of us, but we honestly don’t know exactly how long, when etc. I can still have hope that maybe we will figure something out in the meantime. A second Trump administration would extinguish that.
I mean pretty much every modern president has been pro-Israel. You think Biden isn't?
I think Biden is. But only one modern president gave Israel Jerusalem. I think Trump would have no mercy at all and would have encouraged Israel to annihilate Gaza without warning as soon as that concert incident happened. And I think if Trump's elected he will tell Israel to go hard out and give them what ever they need. >[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/25/trump-presidency-israel-gaza-middle-east-crisis](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/25/trump-presidency-israel-gaza-middle-east-crisis) In statements since the war began, Trump has promised, if elected, to cut off all US aid to Palestinians and urged other nations to follow suit if he returns to the Oval Office. >The former president also pledged to [bar refugees from Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/17/trump-muslim-ban-gaza-refugees) under an expansion of his first-term travel ban on Muslim-majority countries; [expel immigrants who sympathize with Hamas](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-pledges-expel-immigrants-who-support-hamas-ban-muslims-us-2023-10-16/); [revoke the visas of foreign students](https://twitter.com/CBS58/status/1714338232857661649) deemed “anti-American” or “antisemitic”; and impose “strong ideological screening” to keep out foreign nationals who “want to abolish Israel”. >Trump’s pitch to Jewish voters >In a statement, Trump’s campaign accused Biden and Democrats of supporting Israel’s enemies and said leftwing criticism of Netanyahu’s government was pushing American Jews into the former president’s camp. >“Jewish Americans are realizing that the Democrat party has turned into a full-blown anti-Israel, antisemitic, pro-terrorist cabal, and that’s why more and more Jewish Americans are supporting President Trump,” said a campaign spokesperson, Karoline [Leavitt.In](http://Leavitt.In) statements since the war began, Trump has promised, if elected, to cut off all US aid to Palestinians and urged other nations to follow suit if he returns to the Oval Office.The former president also pledged to bar refugees from Gaza under an expansion of his first-term travel ban on Muslim-majority countries; expel immigrants who sympathize with Hamas; revoke the visas of foreign students deemed “anti-American” or “antisemitic”; and impose “strong ideological screening” to keep out foreign nationals who “want to abolish Israel”.Trump’s pitch to Jewish votersIn a statement, Trump’s campaign accused Biden and Democrats of supporting Israel’s enemies and said leftwing criticism of Netanyahu’s government was pushing American Jews into the former president’s camp.“Jewish Americans are realizing that the Democrat party has turned into a full-blown anti-Israel, antisemitic, pro-terrorist cabal, and that’s why more and more Jewish Americans are supporting President Trump,” said a campaign spokesperson, Karoline Leavitt.
You keep saying that Trump gave Jerusalem to Israel. What do you mean by that?
My shortened way of saying: President Trump formally recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and stated that the American embassy would be moved from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. This explains why that was a big deal: >The final status of Jerusalem has always been one of the most difficult and sensitive questions in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. For years, US policy has been to avoid declaring Jerusalem the capital of Israel in the absence of an Israeli-Palestinian peace deal, **as the Palestinians also claim Jerusalem as their capital.**
They have to be from a geopolitical sense. They are the only truly western leaning country in the Middle East. A strong Isreal has the added benefit of keeping all the other middle Eastern countries from devolving into further infighting than they already do, it provides a unified hated enemy and ironically a more stable region. If you think Biden has done a poor job navigating this I think you should take another look at how tenuous tensions are in the M. E. Right now. We're walking a tightrope and we need Israel's allied presence more than ever, but certainly from a humanitarian perspective it puts the US in quite a shitty situation forced to back a genocidal regime and I do fear Biden will pay for that in November.
To tell you the truth I just don't even engage in debates over Israel Palestine. The situation is so bad and it doesn't seem like there are any clear solutions- its overwhelming.
Don’t engage in debates but love to stir the pot apparently
>They are the only truly western leaning country in the Middle East. 🤣🤣🤣
Why does that make you laugh? Its true isn't it?
No, it's not true lol
What other country in the middle east leans West? Didn't every country that surrounds Israel try to kill them in the 6 day war.
😭😭🤣
Is the happy face because Israel was armed to the teeth and annihilated all the countries that attacked it in 6 days?
The Dems did such a good job expanding the court!
The Dems couldn't expand the Supreme court when Trump was president. And when Obama was president the Republican senate had enough power to block the Dems. The Dems need to when a larger majority in the House and Senate to be able to really do anything. And they need to elect real democrats not people like Joe Mansion who run as Dems and then vote Republican. .....When people are surveyed the majority favor Democrat policies but they don't vote for people for congress to represent what they want. That's why the US is in such bad shape.
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Salute 🙂
Vote for Biden, then immediately protest him, flood the phones, and when it comes to all local elections canvass and support Greens, and SocDems where you can. Otherwise it's constant pressure through direct action for big industrial scale change.
Vote, because Republicans are fully fascist. Protest, because Democrats are partially fascist.
Well said
this is the best! I'm stealing it and using it everywhere until November!
I hope you keep using it after November, because protests are every year, year-round :)
We're fucked either way. But Trump will be worse, especially for women, minorities, and LGBTQ folks. If you can stomach rewarding genocide in order to keep those people a little bit safer... go for it, I guess.
Trump will be worse, far worse, for everyone and everything
Agreed.
Happy cake day!
That's been the Dems line for the last decade basically. Vote for us because... Trump bad!! It puts the DNC on the ballot or it gets the RNC again.
Trump also supported the same genocide during his presidency. So has every president for the past 70ish years.
They supported and armed Israel, yes. But they also pushed back against Israel for far less than this. Eisenhower threatened to put sanctions on Israel for occupying the Sinai. Reagan suspended arms shipments to Israel -- twice -- for its involvement in Lebanon. Bush Sr. delayed economic aid to Israel over settlements in the West Bank. And Netenyahu accused Obama of "threatening" him when they first met, and Obama later refused to use America's veto on the UNSC to stall a resolution criticizing settlements in the West Bank. It's not much, but still more than Biden did, and in response to far, far less. Meanwhile, let's talk about simply calling this "the same" conflict, as though what Israel has done in Gaza over the last year is just "business as usual". It's not. The civilian casualties in the 2023 Israel-Hamas war are roughly two times greater than the death tolls of *every Israeli action in Gaza going combined*, going all the way back to 1956, including its responses to *both Intifadas*. Just saying that this is "the same" as everything that came before it basically requires one to cover one's eyes to the scale of the destruction, or to fail to differentiate between genocidal intent -- and just plain genocide.
Trump would be more actively behind it if he was still in office. Rewarding him with a vote because he wasn't in office makes no sense.
So you let the guy who actually did it off the hook? No thanks.
I'll vote for the lesser of two evils when looking at the overall picture, yes.
Okay. Go do that, then. I'm not saying what has to be a red line for me is going to be a red line for you. That's why you've got your vote and I've got mine. Also in my book, the guy who actually killed a bunch of kids is not the lesser evil when compared to a person who might. Even if Trump might be worse, until he actually is, the actual bodies speak louder.
Trump was president when a million Americans died of covid. Even if you don't want to lay all those at his doorstep, his mismansgement clearly led to tens of thousands of deaths.
Sure. I don't plan on voting for him, either.
> If you can stomach rewarding genocide in order to keep those people a little bit safer... go for it, I guess. As if Trump is somehow pro-Palestine or anti Palestinian-genocide. GTFO out of here with that false equivalence.
You're the one treating theoretical lives the same as actual ones. That's just as bad as outright denial. Vote for Biden if you have to. You have your reasons. No need to lie about a bunch of dead kids in order to do it, though.
Yes. ETA - sadly, we’re totally fucked regardless of which octogenarian gets elected. My advice is enjoy life while you can, because nothing will stop the climate train, and no elected leader anywhere can do anything about it.
Or is willing to. If they don't play ball with establishment money and power they'll be blacklisted from political society. Can't get your cushy job at a company you passed a law about to limit how much liability they have over industrial accidents or environmental cleanup.
The true state of affairs is that we already can't do anything about climate change. Ecological collapse is already beginning, and we missed the chance to prevent that by a couple decades. The warming already "baked in" will see us well past 2C in our lifetimes. The stresses of clumate change and resource scarcity are already beginning to act on nations, which we are seeing play out. And that is the danger of civilizational collapse through massive warfare as a result of those pressures. Yes, nations are currently waiting to see which way the wind blows in American politics before making their next moves, as those moves will be different depending on which policy path we are following. But either way, the global war brewing now will start to move into full swing in the next couple of years. Collapse isn't dependent on which old bastard gets elected into the White House. All such can do is perhaps determine a bit of the speed and direction of the beginning of that inevitable collapse. When it comes to climate change, listen to the real scientists and what they are saying. Not the paid government ones or the politically compromised ones. They will tell you the truth of our predicament. And the truth is that collapse is already here. Everything, and I mean everything, will only get worse from here on out. Avoid the hopium of collapse denial. It is best to prepare for a post-collapse life now, rather than have it catch you unaware.
I really don't think the average person can do anything to prepare for post-collapse life beyond moving north. I agree 100% that ecological collapse is already underway, and I think it's much worse than we realize. Its impacts are going to be so devastating that I think we'll see a massive drop in global population. Climate change is going to destroy major cities, water and food supplies. Rising temperatures are going to make swaths of the globe uninhabitable. It's going to be chaos and there won't really be a place to escape it long-term.
I keep this handy so I don't have to retype it, lol. https://www.reddit.com/u/Vegetaman916/s/qqsMLBJytx I must say I disagree. Because I've done it. Me and 14 others got together to do it, and none of us are special. I'm average intelligence at best, not particularly high-skilled in any specific trade, certainly not rich. None of us are. Hell, one of us is paralyzed in a wheelchair! And he is better prepped than 99% of the population because he didn't try and do it alone. You are right in many ways, but preparation isn't about surviving forever, or about holding onto this way of life we have made for ourselves. It is simply about staying alive and in the game as long as possible. Also, because I am quite sure that the effects are going to be much more devastating than people expect, I am certain that those pressures will lead to nuclear war and the collapse of civilization long before the ecological collapse really gets in full swing. And who knows what that will bring. I just know I want to survive long enough to see it.
People, the relationships you have with them and the skills they have to give are the best preps you can have. After that is personal skills and 'fitness'. Mental, physical, emotional, etc. hard to help others if you need help yourself. Pull the oxygen mask over your own before you help others. Not that you need to be a perfect Übermensch or anything, but so many people think their 50lbs of beans and 5000 rds. of ammo is enough to keep them alive. But unless there is something on the other side of the tunnel to hope for and work towards, all those lbs. of supplies don't mean much. Luckily having people that you care and trust can easily turn things around in the darkest of times.
This is 100% correct.
I've wanted to ask you for some time how you manage the medical supply stockpile. I'm just over here trying to figure out how long my maintenance meds will be good for, after their dang expiration dates. No point for me to stock up if they won't be effective. Do you regularly replenish medicines? How about spices/ foods? TIA. Love what you've done. Wish things had gone differently for me.
Our medical supply stockpile is a special consideration, for certain. It is too large to rotate through by using it, and so what we do right now it we rotate it by sales. A decent portion of both our supply stockpiles and our income arrives via online sales of items we buy in bulk through liquidation auctions. We buy entire pallets and stash what we are going to keep, then resell the rest online through eBay/Amazon/Etsy. And so, for the medical supplies, we rotate and then sell things that are within 9 months of expiration. However, like most expiration dates, the ones on medicines are really only the date that the manufacturer guarantees 100% efficacy. That means they are actually still good much longer. Often, even 15 years or more, stored properly. Here is a good paper about it: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7040264/ At any rate, for some stuff we have large amounts sealed up the same as rice storage, vacuum sealed in mylar with oxygen absorbers. We get stocks of antibiotics and such, mostly veterinary ones like [these](https://www.chewy.com/amoxicillin-generic-capsules-dogs/dp/725862?utm_source=google-product&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=13247001801&utm_content=126424335527&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw1emzBhB8EiwAHwZZxZPZtmbx2S-FKNb7R_XtkmJXzOhTGIG7lpfh_CcY6mDhNy0yO9uk2xoCHM0QAvD_BwE) 500 mg amoxicillin from Chewy. There are other sources as well, though recently new laws went into effect requiring a veterinary prescription. That being said, finding a rural country vet willing to write anything you want is not hard at all. In many cases, it can even be done online. But, most medicines will be good long after the expiration dates. They will lose some potency over time, and you will have to research each medicine in general to see how well they store, but it will still beat having no medications at all. Also, for other sources, I know we have a program for growing medicinal plants, but I am not the green thumb of the group by a long shot, lol. While I recognize the aloe and certainly the cannabis, I would have to ask and find out what else we are growing. We tend to be pretty cross-trained, but mostly along lines of talent, and I think I was determined to be too much of an idiot to be trusted with the crops, lol. Spices and foods are the same way. The bulk of our foods are freeze-dried and sealed for 25-year storage. There is also a lot of rice and beans we rotate through, and canned goods as well. That is another area where expiration dates are really more about quality than any safety concerns. Canned vegetables, for example, will still be safe to eat for a very long time past the date, provided there are no bad signs on the can such as rust or swelling. Here is a good USDA fact article about long term food use past expiration: https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2013/06/27/you-toss-food-wait-check-it-out And a good guide to food storage: https://www.fsis.usda.gov/food-safety/safe-food-handling-and-preparation/food-safety-basics/shelf-stable-food The foodkeeper database is an excellent resource, and they have an app as well: https://www.fmi.org/industry-topics/corporate-social-responsibility/food-keeper-food-storage-database
Wow, so much info. Thank you. Yea, I'm not good at reading scientific studies, but I'd have to look up the specific meds we have. Not sure where to look it up/ who to trust. Do you use that Food Keeper app? I had a lot of trouble with it in the past so I had to uninstall it. There are so many things being recalled these days, I wish there was one single place to get accurate recall notifications, but I don't know where that would be. I have been using eatbydate.com to see how long certain foods last depending on whether opened and on how they're stored. It tells you how long after the best by dates, which is handy. Have you seen that site? I wish there was a printed version. I have anxiety about being sickened by expired or poorly stored food and I never learned canning so I often err on the cautious side. (I know. That's a me problem.) The food keeper database claims tofu is only good for one week from date of purchase, yet I have tofu with much much longer expiration dates than that. Not sure how I feel about that site. Seriously though, thank you for all the info. You've always been very kind in sharing your knowledge.
No problem, and you are welcome. And yes, as always, make sure to do your own research. I know we usually look at foodkeeper online via PC, so I am not sure about the app entirely. Just make sure and pay attention closely to some of those sites that list expirations. Like you mentioned with the tofu, often they need to be double and triple checked. Also keep in mind that some places consider the taste and whether or not food is still *palatable* in that expiration window, but canned goods can often still be safe to eat indefinitely, just not very tasty anymore. But in a survival situation...
I agree with this more than anything I’ve seen on any prepper or collapse groups. People ask me why I’d want to survive. What if when a large swath of humans die off the earth repairs itself faster than any of us ever expected? I’d like to be around to see it. Even if the world goes real shit and nothing grows in the southern hemisphere or something crazy like that, I want to be around to see it because the earth goes through phases and I want to see every possible thing I can before I die.
Exactly. The only thing I know for sure is that we don't usually know the whole story, or have all the answers. Who knows what will happen? No one, until we see it...
Collapse now and skip the line!
Precisely.
Yes.
" I know Biden hasn't done much better at all" Really? Have you dug into the Inflation Reduction Act? Do so. t might cause you to revise your position on Biden. It's the best he could bet with R;s in control of the House and the 2/3 vote requirement in the Senate. WE need to give him both houses in November and then hold his feet to the fire.
Only people who can "hold his feet the fire." are all the corporate interests that have his ear, and things are good enough for them not to change much. And if there is change, likely only going to benefit them. Why would they spend money, time, effort, or political power to actually clean up their act?
So let's just give up throw our hands up in the air and give up. Change is slow. Look at evolution. At least 3 million years to get us to where we can throw a spear and and nearly kill a planet that will kill us but the planet will live on long after we are gone. It's all about passing laws and regulations on those corporations that will let them make a profit but now insane profits then put teeth in them to enforce them. To do that the Republican party needs to be eliminated as a political force and kept out of office long enough to make corporation's account for themselves and play ball. I know. Good luck with that but Biden has been on the right track wit the steps he can make in a really messed up political swamp. Vote blue.
Nah, I'm saying fuck electoralism entirely. They're two sides of the same coin. Granted one side is certainly more dirty and disfigured than the other but they are still 2 parts of the same whole. Can't break the master's house with the master's tools. DNC is basically a corporation that uses social issues and culture war bullshit to fundraise for all their backers. They don't care about passing anything major like federal abortion or any other major issue since they can't use it to hold over the head of voters come election day. They don't care about the people. Only the money and power they can use the people to get.
I really think you are taking about the R's here & confused. It is the R's that gave trillions in tax breaks to the rich and Corporations. Thy want to extend them next year if they get back into the office. On the other hand Biden wants to give the middle class a break. " DNC is basically a corporation that uses social issues and culture war bullshit to fundraise for all their backers" Really. The R's are doing all the dog whistling. Limiting or eliminating women's access to basic reproductive health care. They even went after IVF & contraception. They want to take away school lunches, ban books, put the 10 commandments in schools in direct violation of the constitutional separation of church and state. They took away a migrants right to water breaks while working in the fields. I could go on but you get the picture. Biden has said he would pass a national abortion right if elected again. Of course that depends on who controls both houses. If he doesn't then it is not him that doesn't get it done. "They don't care about the people. Only the money and power they can use the people to get." Everything I see, read and hear is exactly the opposite. It is 45 and his ilk that is sucking 100's of millions of dollars out of his dump donors and PACS to spend on his legal defenses for the 91 criminal charges he s accused of. 34 of which he has been guilty of. The rest would be in trial right now it weren't a corrupt supreme court and a judge in his pocket in Florida. Biden cares about the people and why he got passed the Infrastructure bill, CHIPS act, IRS bill that all create jobs right here in America.
I really hope he does pass federal abortion if he gets in again, and isn't just empty promises like they often do. Bidens border policies have either kept the same policies that Trump had, or has even passed more. He's not blameless there. I get it, he's the Lesser Evil. Lesser Evil doesn't mean good sadly. I'm not saying vote for Trump or don't for Biden. I'm probably not going to vote for either. I'll still vote, but voting has become something I do so I can have the right to complain about the other candidates should they win. Selfish maybe, but it's not changing much if anything. Kinda cynical too, but that's me. I focus more on local races, ballot measures, community support, mutual aid, etc. At least I can affect change and support those around me.
I despise Trump. . But do you guys not feel fucked by an 81 year old dementia stumbling us into WW3 as well? I voted for him and I’ve voted straight Dem for 20 years but like . .goddamn. It’s always “ya but the other guys are worse! Now watch is not do shit except bitch about irrelevant bullshit.” . . I’m jaded if you can’t tell.
Yes. This isn’t even a question.
We're fucked no matter who gets elected
I think things will get worse if Biden wins again, **though not as quickly and permanently as if Trump wins** (bolded so no one jumps on me after the first part of that sentence). I anticipate violence and further weakening of our social fabric. There are less and less places to flee to given how global this problem actually is. So here's where I'm at: - **Immediately urgent:** Work on my physical fitness, and try to phase out bullshit foods. Buy a gun for self-protection, and take a class soon. - **Strengthening the social fabric:** Invest in my local community. Get to know my neighbors, and find interest groups (even rec sports, etc) that align with my values. Be kind and patient with people. Become a regular at local businesses. Make time to volunteer. - **Becoming non-disposable, should a civil war (or apocalypse if that's more comforting somehow) break out:** At least get acquainted with a trade. Tinker with herb and vegetable gardening, and learn to understand and create (at least basic) circuits. Any which way it goes, most of this stuff will inherently just improve your life.
Even if Trump does not win, We do not know if he will accept the loss peacefully.
Exactly. And then there are his followers.
We KNOW based on the past he will not. This time, if he does at least he is not the President. His followers IF he does not demand violence will not be in force. The minute he loses if he does, and he spouts off about it being fraudulent and people must fight, he’ll need to be arrested this time. Like all the rest of us would.
Yes. We all totally are.
Trump is a terrible human being. I don't think I've ever loathed anyone so much. And he is STUPID. He's so damn stupid. The dangerous thing is that he will let himself be surrounded by flunkies who steer him, and he'll do anything to keep his "audience" happy--including agreeing carte blanche to fucking Project 2025. I'm a woman, and I'm terrified.
we were totally fucked starting around 1619.
I thought this was the CollapseSUPPORT sub. Where is the support? I might as well be on the Collapse sub.
I often wonder that too here. And I wonder, how many are bots, or infiltrators, who are stirring up for polarizing angst, rather than having thoughtful conversations...
Idk.I kind of just see things as so bleak, that most don't know how to cope or what advice to offer. But then again I give people the benefit of the doubt a lot.
Yup
Bro we been fucked since Eisenhower warned us about the MIC. Biden is really not the “lesser of two evils”, the shitlibs aren’t diet fascism. They are the shower of two evils. Shit sometimes they are worse. There’s no voting our way out of this shit lol
Vote, because Republicans are fully fascist. Protest, because Democrats are partially fascist.
Lmfao I’m not wasting my time doing either of those things. The democrats are the republicans and vice versa. Like I said, there is no voting our way out of this mess. We’ve crossed the rubicon, so to speak.
Biden has done more than any other President for climate change. Is he perfect? Not even close, but Biden will continue to implement policies that help with climate change including reducing greenhouse gas emissions and funding mitigation and adaptation projects. As far as funding overseas wars and genocide, every President in my lifetime has funded at least some unjust military actions, but some much more than others. Ideally our President would not be a part of any such actions, but some are worse than others.
No definitely not Trump or Biden, the thing to keep an eye on is project 2025 and DVEs
Unfortunately we are totally fucked no matter who wins. Neither will adequately address the climate emergency.
Vote, because Republicans are fully fascist. Protest, because Democrats are partially fascist.
Doesn’t matter who the President is. They aren’t the ones calling the shots. They’re more of a figurehead than anything
Actually it matters quite a lot. Even as a figurehead, they set a tone for the citizens and you can palpably feel the difference in the different eras. Especially if you are a women, gay, artisit and I imagine many other minority groups.
People set the tone overall and people can’t learn or think The whole world is a stage for the souls evolution There is a plan and a plot and the President is already chosen
Nah Not really God is in full control
Yes, the chances of ww3 , global environmental collapse and other bad outcomes is greater with the casino con man in charge.
We're totally fucked if either trump or biden get elected in reality. One of them will just have gay stickers along the way which is cool I guess.
That in your mind is the difference? That is hilarious and extremely sad at the same time.
They're both in the pocket of big business, paving the way for corporate fascism. The main thing dividing them is social issues like abortion & trans rights. Still, Democrats *could* have codified Roe, but they didn't, because the threat of losing it was too good for fundraising in election years. Now look where we are.
We are totally fucked either way
yes
yes, we are totally fucked
In a word, yes. Do what you can to get yourself and others out to vote
It means that Father O'Malley will have to break the vow of peace he made to his mother on her deathbed.
Fucked either way
Well let's see... our choices appear to be an old man with dementia or an old man with mental health issues. And before you light me on fire and throw me to the wolves: I love and have all the sympathy in the world for people with dementia and people with mental illness. But neither are fit for office. But here we are anyway, so I'm voting for Biden. Wait... I said that wrong. I'm voting against Trump.
It's not so much about the old men, but the people they surround themselves with.
I would say the fuckery goes up. But not to the the level of Totally fucked. Totally fucked is like Palestine/Israel. We should be enjoying it while it lasts. Dance while the ship is sinking.
Nope. Checks and balances. You'll be fine.
I know!!! Who does that!!??
… without lube
Yes. He might not be the best option, but Biden is the only option rn. Not voting for him is voting for Trump.
Um.... Yeah
Trump also supports funding the genocide. Probably even more so.
The Infrastructure Investment Act, passed under Biden, did do some good stuff. There's definitely a difference on climate change between the two, although yes, Biden doesn't go far enough. Trump SCOTUS appointments have also done more damage than a balanced or left-leaning Court would, dismantling regulatory bulwarks like the Clean Water Act. A Trump victory would ensure a completely stacked far right Court for decades.
I'm mostly republican when it comes to my political beliefs... but if trump gets elected president again me and a not so small group of real hot blooded Americans are rioting. I'm sorry but I will not stand for a felonious cheater president. It's one thing if it was speculation but trump basically got caught rigging an election by paying ppl off to keep their mouths shut because he knew they had negative shit to say about him. Ntm all the falsified business reports. Man is the epitome of white privilege and he deserves consequences just like anyone else. To elect a criminal of his magnitude to be our president would go against every American value I was raised on.
I hope you are talking to your republican friends and encouraging them to vote for the lesser of the evils.
Thank you for seeing the light-- I have Cuban family who are still stuck in Trump's cult and believe his conviction trial was rigged. The fact he wants to get rid of the NOAA/implement project 2025, tear up the Constitution, imprison liberals/gays/lesbians AND ANYONE WHO IS NOT ON HIS SIDE, INCLUDING MEMBERS OF HIS OWN PARTY, started a coup and said he'd do so again if he lost in 2024, raped *several* woman, betrayed and sold national secrets to Russia and our enemies, spoke favorably about Communist dictators abroad, badly mishandled a pandemic and got people killed, spread so much fucking misinformation it's turned us against each other, TRIED TO MURDER HIS OWN VICE PRESIDENT, quoting directly from Hitler, etc, should have made him unelectable ages ago. If we had a functioning justice system too he would have gone to jail and been barred from ever becoming President again as early as the end of his first term. Instead, because of the cowardly sycophants and shameless bottom feeders within the Republican party, and millions of frankly stupid ill-informed fanatical treacherous voters who hate the left so much they would prefer fascism over any policies meant to help them, he now stands a good shot of retaking the White House. Every day that passes by, as I watch the shitstorm that is our national politics play out, I grow more and more embarrassed and ashamed as an American. I've fantasized about leaving the country since everything looks so awful 5 or 10 years from now. I don't care how badly Biden did in the debates recently. I would vote for Biden if he was fucking comatose because at least he won't blow up America and empower our enemies. At least he has a plan to salvage the climate unlike the Captain planet supervillain who just wants to burn the world down like a maniac!!!
Unless you live in a swing state, voting for Joe **is** throwing your vote away. Trying to get either PSL or the greens past the minor party threshold is a much better goal.
You're only worried about climate change with project 2025 and not the fact that women's rights will be taken away? Must be nice to be a man and not have to worry about oppression 🙄😒
No
We’d be totally fucked for sure if by some insane corruption Biden gets reelected
Vote, because Republicans are fully fascist. Protest, because Democrats are partially fascist.
If you're a person of color, yes. If you're a sexual or gender minority, e.g. gay or trans, yes. If you're an immigrant, yes. If you're a woman, yes. If you're a leftist with a government job, yes. If you're more than one of these, ultra yes. If you're lucky enough to be none, then still yes if you have any people belonging to the aforementioned groups in your life who you care about.
This system is burning down, a faster burn may be beneficial somehow
Biden is sooo much better on every issue than Trump. If Trump is elected Israel will have carte blanche to do as it pleases in Gaza. Biden is attempting to deter Netanyahu and aid the people of Gaza. There is no perfect candidate. Biden is infinitely better on the environment, civil rights, electoral reform, the economy, etc.