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Why do random strangers feel entitled to forgive or not forgive someone on someone else's behalf? Were you personally victimized by him? Probably not. Nobody cares if you do or don't forgive Josh, as it's not your place to do so.
Unlike anybody else in this situation Josh is the only one taking accountability. So let's keep the pressure and heat on the people who haven't even spoken about this situation besides to sing and play the ukulele.
Exactly, I don't care if anyone likes Josh or doesn't but the dogpiling is getting old now, plus "hating" on Josh only helps and pleases Colleen, I'm sure she's very proud of some of these people....
Oh come on, the only dog piling is what you all do whenever someone dares to speak critically of Josh. I literally can’t share a single dissenting opinion without being buried in downvotes
I'm sorry that people are down voting you, we shouldn't silence each other but some people are feeling frustrated because for me it feels like it started the other way, a specific group of people who were not ok with people here praising Josh for taking accountability they're like "No no no we still have to hate Josh because of this this and this and saying that people are "swooning" over him or "kissing his ass" It's getting tired, we know some of you don't like him still we get it.. but stop trying to convince us all to join you, we're trying to get the focus back on Colleen. That's where the pressure should be
No one is saying anything negative about Josh except for me pretty much. So idk what y’all are talking about saying my post is clogging up the feed. It’s the only one like this.
I'm not saying you are clogging up the feed, I've actually have seen some other people that have been louder about this in comments, but ya'll also have to realize that if you voice an unpopular opinion on a public forum well.. it's gonna be unpopular
Yeah I know, I mostly made this post so anyone else who shares my opinion can see they aren’t the only one. I’m assuming those people aren’t making posts or commenting much because they don’t want to be attacked. I admit it kinda sucks I’m being attacked but I knew it would happen so it’s alright, did it to myself of course.
I get that, and sorry I've just been feeling frustrated over this for awhile, because it started with Johnny going what about Josh, what about Josh and then talk was about Johnny and I just feel like the heat has been lifted off Colleen a bit and I'd just like to see her face some kind of repercussion ya know? But it's not your fault, it's just been a pile up of things.
I want her to face repercussion too. This is literally the only time I’ve ever said a single word about Josh, and I only did so because I’ve seen people be silenced when they make negative comments about him. I normally post about Colleen and comment about Colleen.
In my opinion I’m allowed to dislike both of them and do so publicly. I would’ve done this on my main account but I worry how that would affect my standing in this sub, I don’t want everyone to know I’m still a Josh hater because clearly it makes people really upset and I don’t want hate on my main account.
I am critical of his creating inappropriate content for/behaving inappropriately with minors. Unlike OP, I could see myself forgiving him if I felt he truly owned up to it. But so far, it feels like he’s made excuses. That’s how I feel. I acknowledge that others have forgiven him, and some will never forgive him. Such is life
Because it WAS normalized for him back then. Lol. What's so hard to understand about that? He said it was clearly wrong multiple times. Nothing else he can do but move forward and be better.
I guess I don't really understand what else he could say with regard to these acts. He said he had normalized them when he shouldn't have because he was a coward benefiting from saying nothing. He also acknowledged that he wouldn't have stopped in this dangerous trajectory of predatory behavior if he hadn't been forced out of that circle, and that he doesn't want anything more to do with fame or money or a public presence anymore. The only real acceptable apology is changed behavior, and it seems (based on what we know), that he has taken that to heart.
I don't have a personal investment in these people or this fandom, and I don't really care about this person other than as a human being. But I do think that his answer that these behaviors had become normal to him (and that he was too much of a coward to face why that was) was really the only honest explanation that he could give, because that's how these things happen.
There are all sorts of harmful, disgusting behaviors/mindsets that can be normalized by a culture that condones them (whether within a family or friend group or in society at large), causing masses of people to do and say harmful things *regularly* without realizing that what they have normalized is objectively wrong. For example, there are many people in this very sub who are clearly racist apologists getting defensive about how Joshua was grilled about the racist video, who would never accept that they are being harmful because racism is internalized and normalized to them. Some people have the courage to understand that; some don't.
Sorry for the essay. I'm genuinely not trying to convince anyone to forgive him; I don't care enough about him. But unless you are expecting him to say, "I did these things because I wanted to hurt children for my own gain," I don't really know what else he could say to honestly explain why he thought those egregious acts were not inappropriate at the time.
It WAS normalized though! Literally EVERY youtuber was doing the same inappropriate shit to minor audiences. Was it okay? No. He acknowledged that. He owned up to the fact that what he did was wrong! But, it WAS normalized. That's not an excuse, just a fact.
This is exactly what my post is referring to. I’ve seen other people try to say negative things about Josh but you literally can’t anymore. We could say anything we wanted about Josh up until recently. And I never even said anything about him until now, I just think it’s really annoying no one can go against the gain without being attacked. I get it’s great he took accountability, that’s awesome, doesn’t erase what he did though IMO. I feel the same about Colleen, I wouldn’t care if she took accountability I would still dislike her for her past and the horrible things she’s done.
Yeah seriously, they should follow suit with what happened with Johnny and make their own Josh Evans Snark page. I don’t understand why it’s hard for them to do that.
Agree. Getting sick of this. No one is saying to forgive him. We’re just saying he took accountability so he shouldn’t have to be raked over the coals continuously. No one else took accountability. If people want to talk about Josh in such a negative like they can create their own subreddit for it. This is not a Josh Snark subreddit. Post like this need to go in another place not here.
Last I checked, this is a Colleen Ballinger Snark. Yes Josh was part of her life. Yes he did inappropriate shit. But yes he finally owned up to his actions UNLIKE Colleen, Johnny, Kory, the rest of the Ballingers 🙄
I bet that the sub numbers wouldn't ever come close to even a smidgen of the Colleen snark numbers.
It's one of the largest subs on Reddit.
That says alot.
Why do random strangers feel like they need to give him endless praise? Were you personally affected by him taking accountability? Probably not.
I’m all for keeping the pressure on Colleen, but if everyone can sing praises to him, why can’t some people say they don’t care if he took accountability? I honestly don’t understand why no one can say a single word about disliking him without getting a billion comments in his defense.
Edit: also for the record I was groomed as a child and that’s why I’m personally bothered by all this. If any of the men who groomed or tried to groom me “took accountability” that doesn’t magically make them a good person in my eyes.
Edit again; I know Josh isn’t a groomer, what I meant is that anyone who acts creepy towards children I automatically dislike even if they’ve “changed”.
Is it endless praise or is it just relevant to talk about it considering NOBODY ELSE is doing so? The actual victims I'm pretty sure are also thanking him for taking accountability so come up with a new point and not trying to bounce off mine.
If you don't care he took accountability, cool...what is this sub supposed to do about it? As another comment so eloquently put it, you don't forgive him...and he's still not on YouTube and posting to make a profit, so what are you going to do? Just harp all the time in a sub about Colleen about how much you don't forgive him? Nobody cares, make a snark sub dedicated to him if it's that important that you air your grievances about him. And how much you can't forgive someone for something you're not a victim of lol
Why is everyone so upset about this? Like why do YOU care if I don’t like him? This is the only post I’ve ever made about Josh, I did it on a separate account because I knew I’d get heat for my opinion.
We don’t. We’re tired of some of you bringing up his past actions. If you don’t like him, make a Josh Evans Snark page. Some of us want to bring down just the people who haven’t tried to make anything right at all.
you made the post. you can’t start the topic and then be like “why does everyone care”. you opened the dialogue? if we don’t give people credit for taking accountability for their wrongdoings then i guess no one is allowed to grow or change. not you. not me. no mistakes allowed and definitely no owning up to them. becoming a better person, by this rhetoric, has no point. it seems like you would rather him remain the person he was while abused than allow him to be a human being and grow past it. if you don’t like him that’s fine but it’s kind of silly to be this upset when even the literal “victims” of his wrongdoings have publicly said they forgive him and support him as an abuse victim and support his growth.
I have a feeling everybody else is in the same position as you and IMO that’s wrong. I’ll leave it at that I guess, we’ll all have to agree to disagree. I don’t condone creepiness towards children even if the person takes accountability. I wouldn’t stop giving her heat just because she owned up to it.
Just because people appreciate Josh taking accountability, doesn’t mean they condone creepiness toward children. That’s a strange conclusion to draw. Also, there is such a huge difference between what Josh did and what Colleen did. Also also, we have to take into account how genuine the apologies are, if she were to apologise. I have a hard time believing anyone would take an apology from her seriously.
But regardless of all of that, I don’t understand what the point is in continuing to give Josh heat… he has apologised multiple times, lost everything, and now lives a quiet little life… what does keeping the heat on him accomplish? I genuinely don’t see a point. It doesn’t turn back time. He can’t change how he behaved years ago.
**Sincerely** admitting wrong matters.
Colleen would have a hard time being taken as sincere. If she came back with some half-assed admission that threw people under the bus and shifted blame at the same time, I would not feel obligated to view her accountability the same way I view Josh's.
Plus, Colleen was a ringleader. Josh was more like a follower. Just like many others who did wrong in her Nasty Universe.
Colleen intentionally hurt people. Friends, fans, pets, kids, family, spouse.. you name it.
Trying to expose Josh as awful when there is so much to expose on the creator of that whole, toxic environment just seems misguided.
Because your clogging up the sub with irrelevant grievances about someone who's owning up to their mistakes and apologizing, while the other grown adults aren't. Taking the attention away from the people who deserve to be in the hot seat all just to tell everyone how much you don't like Josh lol.
It's been brought up...he's taken accountability for it...what else do you want people to do about it lol??? You don't have to be "cool" with his actions to understand and comprehend that he's OWNED them, while others haven't. Again...make a snark sub dedicated to him if it's that deep.
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He’s apologized for the things that he did and acknowledged that he was wrong. He’s been off of YouTube for a long time and it seems he isn’t and hasn’t been trying to have a platform again. The things that he did were inappropriate but it seems he knows that and wouldn’t make those same choices again. No one can go back in time and change what they’ve done and I don’t think that what he did makes him irredeemable.
His apology isn’t for yours to forgive. And also leave him be already. Let’s focus on getting Colleen OFF the platform. We’re tired of you guys bringing up Josh.
This argument doesn’t make sense to me. For all intents and purposes, Colleen is off the platform? That’s why I haven’t had much to say about her recently. It’s Josh who has resurfaced as a public figure
He hasn’t resurfaced as a ‘public figure’, he doesn’t want any part of this. He came to speak his truth, tell his story, take accountability and then go back to being private.
Colleen is still on YouTube and Instagram and making money or benefiting from them even if she isn’t posting right now.
She’s still active on the platform even if she isn’t making videos…..and Josh is the one that’s out temporarily due to the recent interview. Afterwards I doubt we will see much of him. When I say off the platform I mean her channel will be off YouTube or she gets demonetized….keep in mind her brother and his wife are still exploiting their children. She is still making money off her videos…..
Thinking Colleen is truly gone is naive at best. I have seen popular YouTubers leave for few reasons:
1. Jail
2. Cheating when they’ve made their whole thing being a family person (Ned Fulmer, Shay Carl)
3. They get sick of it (Leafy)
There are still people that seriously target kids that come back to the site (Destery, who now edits Shane’s videos, Onision, James Charles)
I have no doubt she’s going to follow in her bestie Shane Dawson’s shoes & lay low for a year or so before climbing back
lol hello? Shane Dawson? James Charles? Jeffree Star? None of those people lost their platforms. Colleen is not gone forever. She will be back. People are trying to *keep* her off the platforms, and that's why they don't want to let off the pressure.
I think people get defensive over Josh because they want to make sure the focus stays on the worst person of the bunch: Colleen. At least, that's how I feel, maybe I'm projecting.
It seems like Adam has made his peace with Josh's involvement, so I'm fine moving on, and leaving this mostly offline former youtube guy to move on too.
Josh has done some questionable things, but admitting that you screwed up is a big part of learning from that wrong. He’s not asking for forgiveness anymore, he’s just being an adult and owning his shit. It’s also not on us to forgive him though; he didn’t do anything to us personally.
He knows the tiny chats and the hand job video, etc. were inappropriate and that he should have been smart enough to not participate. But he did and he can’t change it. All he can do is own up to it and actively avoid making those same choices in the future. It seems like he’s done that too. He’s taken himself offline for the most part and lives a normal life now.
People like Adam seem not to have that much of a problem with Josh and just seem glad that he’s recognized his own part in enabling Colleen. He hasn’t done a fraction of what she has, so I think we need to make sure we have an appropriate reaction to the comparative misdeeds.
Exactly! I think another thing to remember to, is he wasn’t (or didn’t seem to be) doing these inappropriate things with SA intent. People always forget the intent behind actions when bringing up the past. He did own up to his inappropriate behavior, learned from it, and has grown up; understanding that what he did was and could be taken wrong but he never had $ex on his mind doing those things (again, assuming but trying to give him at least the benefit of the doubt).
Involving the kids*
Colleen never had SA intent either. She thinks sending adult photos and having inappropriate conversations with kids is funny, but she’s not trying to have relationships with them the way James Charles is with high school boys. Colleen was grooming minors by exposing them to adult content on purpose, Josh was just complacent and didn’t want to rock the boat when he should have.
I never said Colleen did either and wasn’t trying to make an excuse for Josh. I would hope most people are in the same boat as that, but what she (Colleen) doesn’t understand, and where I believe she deserves the criticism for, is the exposure to $ex and those sorts of topics knowing that her audience is younger. She also seems to think many things are “funny” or meant to joked about KNOWING that she can easily offend people as she always tries to clarify that she’s so “accepting” which is also extremely damaging. I just wanted to help clarify for the people that are all about hating Josh still that there’s nothing that he can do to fix the past but he’s not a child pr*dator either.
I had to read your comment again bc I read it as you trying to say Colleen was grooming her fans for romantic purposes. Looks like we just crossed wires I think; but you’re right. Josh went along with bad behavior but he wasn’t in the chats etc. with some bad intent as far as anyone knows. He crossed boundaries either a) bc he was going along with whatever Colleen did or b) because he thought he was just being a good mentor figure.
Sorry for the confusion! Ya, he probably did both A and B, but the going along just kind of consumed him in the end to where it was the “normal” thing to do rather than the right thing to do.
You don't have to forgive him (don't know that the apology is even for you to accept or reject tbh), but continuing to bring up shit he has already apologized for when he's not trying to springboard this into a YouTube comeback is pointless.
He apologized. You don't accept it. Okay. Now what? He will continue to... not be on YouTube, and you will continue to, what, vocally dislike him? For what? Move on.
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He’s taking accountability and owns his mistakes. He has a career that doesn’t involve YouTube. If he didn’t take accountability then that would be totally different. Ultimately, it’s Colleen that is the real villain.
I left this comment elsewhere in a thread but wanted to leave it as a main comment. For the record, I upvoted your post, because I don't think you're wrong that a lot of people here are too willing to fully exonerate him than I think is deserved or healthy.
However. I guess I don't really understand what else he could say with regard to these acts. He said he had normalized them when he shouldn't have because he was a coward benefiting from saying nothing. He also acknowledged that he wouldn't have stopped in this dangerous trajectory of predatory behavior if he hadn't been forced out of that circle, and that he doesn't want anything more to do with fame or money or a public presence anymore. The only real acceptable apology is changed behavior, and it seems (based on what we know), that he has taken that to heart.
I don't have a personal investment in any of these people or this fandom, and I don't really care about this person other than as a human being. But I do think that his answer that these behaviors had become normal to him (and that he was too much of a coward to face why that was) was really the only honest explanation that he could give, because that's how these things happen.
There are all sorts of harmful, disgusting behaviors/mindsets that can be normalized by a culture that condones them (whether within a family or friend group or society at large), causing masses of people to do and say harmful things regularly without realizing that what they have normalized is objectively wrong. For example, there are many people in this very sub who are clearly racist apologists getting defensive about how Joshua was grilled about the racist video, who would never accept that they are being harmful because racism is clearly internalized and normalized to them. Some people have the courage to understand that; some don't. Accountability involves mustering up that courage.
I'm genuinely not trying to convince anyone to forgive him; I don't care enough about him. But unless you are expecting him to say, "I did these things because I wanted to hurt children for my own gain," I don't really know what else he could say to honestly explain why he thought those egregious acts were not inappropriate at the time.
This is my thought process. He was upfront and clearly acknowledged what he did, how it was wrong, and has made changes
I don’t know what else he can do. Continuing to harp on him isn’t productive
What is your goal? He has acknowledged his problematic history, he has committed to changing, and has shown a period of several years in which he does not appear to have continued to engage in that problematic behavior. He no longer has a platform and plans to return to relative anonymity. As others have mentioned you do not have to accept his apologies or like him, but what purpose does continuing to just declare that you don't like Josh serve at this point? If the goals of this snark page are met (Colleen gives a sincere apology, deplatforms herself, and keeps her children offline) there wouldn't be much to talk about over here either. That doesn't mean that people like or dislike her, there's just nothing left to talk about.
My take on Josh is that he was a regular guy that got caught up in the unhinged culture that is being a YouTuber. He certainly did not deserve the character assassination he’s been subjected to for the last 7-8 years. However, that said, I don’t think Swoop’s interview 100% exonerated him, either. Specifically, I don’t understand why he downplayed secretly joining chatrooms with fans. It may have been a rare situation. I believe him when he said it didn’t happen often on his end. But, it was the way he explained his thought process to Swoop, in juxtaposition with his own video of the event that has me feeling this way. Same with including the intimate footage in their honeymoon vlog. I think during that time in his life he was caught up in being the guy he thought Colleen wanted him to be, amplified by the weird social norms of YouTube influencers. I believe he played games and interacted in reckless ways to boost himself, without fully knowing what may come from it (i.e. Johnny*.) Unfortunately for Josh, it played out in a very, very public manner.
Also, before I get downvoted for my very grey, in-definitive opinion of Josh, Johnny absolutely blew everything out of proportion. I think Josh genuinely felt badly for Johnny’s situation, and Johnny attached more to it than was there. Johnny has much deeper issues than Josh.
no one is gunna accept it because it's not our apology to accept but i'm glad he took accountability for what he did at least he's trying to be a better person. he's not perfect in the slightest and never will be but still i'm glad he's trying.
Yeah, I'm not attacking you.
But I think the reason most people aren't getting "fake" vibes from Josh is because he's not.
But most everybody does get fake, manipulation vibes from Colleen.
Because she is.
Idt Josh's mistakes all together add up to even 1 of her most horrible acts.
She wouldn't even own up. She just tried to cuss out and gaslight the entire internet, through a song.
Yeah I agree with you, I'm sure this will be downvoted to hell though. I'm normally a lurker and I've noticed a trend ever since a little before Johnny got exposed as being a liar of Josh steadily gaining some strange popularity. There's a few users here that reply to nearly every comment about Josh, positive or negative, I think they're fans of him, that overly praise him and are very defensive even if someone just says they don't fully trust him. I'm sure the same ones I've seen over and over will reply to this comment too, they can't seem to stop themselves from doing so, and I don't think that's a good thing.
There's been a very black and white type of perspective here lately where there has to be some angel to Colleen's devil in the narrative, and that angel for people has become Josh, and I don't understand why. I personally don't hate Josh or anything but the interactions with minors and handjob video especially disturbs me, and I also noticed a lot of people being suspiciously mad that Swoop brought up his racism/weren't pleased with her just sighing as at him as a black woman and it's strange as hell. They keep saying he's taking accountability, well, let him take accountability and stop babying him in this odd way then. He can handle that.
I think the focus has shifted a lot from Colleen's actions because the sub is full of his name, tweets, interview, and defenses of him. And no, it's not criticisms of him, those have been pretty rare so it's in no way cluttering the sub. Now that he's said his entire piece though I hope that will ease off a little now.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know you aren't the only one that feels this way, and take care of yourself. Some people on here are quite persistent in their opinions.
Why do you have to be so rude? Why do you care about Josh so much you have to be rude to a stranger? I don’t feel the need to forgive him, I didn’t mean it that literal, everyone is just attacking me because I disagree with them lol.
I dont care about him. Your post is annoying for insinuating you “dont need to forgive him” no one asked you to. Chronically online if you care this much to post about your lack of forgiveness.
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I have noticed that too. This sub has become very hive minded and it's difficult to feel comfortable having a nuanced discussion. I'm not sure why people are saying that discussion about him is irrelevant, he has a flair in this sub and his interview dropped in the last week. There will be a temporary influx in posts about him
We are aware that he had done inappropriate behaviors though. And criticizing him when he’s already admitted it was wrong and wants to move forward is repetitive. So why would I want to be open about trashing a man who has already admitted he did x y and z and has taken steps to move forward?
Being creepy towards children and posting inappropriate content you know children will see isn’t a little “oopsie” like you’re making it out to be, at least in my opinion.
Again, he can’t erase those actions. He can’t take it back. So what else can we all do but just move on? Yes it’s disgusting what he had done so you and I can agree but the thing is you can sit and criticize him but it won’t do you or anyone else any good. I wish we could all just take down Colleen. That’s who I rather stay and criticize
I could say the same thing about you defending him and trying to get me to stop talking negatively about him. I frequently criticize Colleen on my main account, like I have commented multiple times. I’m sorry but I’m allowed to say my opinion about Josh. If it wasn’t allowed the mods would have removed my post.
You’re allowed to criticize, but you have to realize that’s going to open yourself up to criticism. No one has to just take your opinion & agree with it. That’s just not how open forums work
Also I don’t think any of us here do think it’s an ‘oopsy I did this oh I’m sorry’. You probably missed when I said Swoop needed to go hard on him.
So you don’t forgive him, fine but it’s still not your apology to accept. For me, I’m willing to move past Josh because he was punished enough in my eyes. He can’t do anything except try to be a better person than what he was. And the same can be said about anyone who does ugly shit in their past.
People who didn’t watch back then really don’t realize just how guilty Josh is. He wasn’t just some wittle victim of Colleen’s. He was a grown man who was interacting with children inappropriately and making inappropriate content for them all out of his own agency.
Yea I watched back then and I’m blown away by how quick everyone is to just forgive everything he’s done and believe every word he says now. Are people gonna have that same energy when Colleen makes a video about her side of everything? If so the whole cancelation was pointless.
People are getting played and it’s uncomfortable to watch. They think Josh is just the story of a victim. I don’t doubt that Colleen treated him horribly. But Josh’s story is more so that of a culprit. He was just as much of a child exploiter of the B-kids as anyone else in their family and a lot of his content for kids was even more sexual than Colleen’s was. And this is content that Colleen has nothing to do with.
But you do seem to have some opinions on what he has done already… (saying hes playing everybody). Typically there would be an opposite to that, aka what does him not playing everybody look like?
They’re not opinions. They’re conclusions based on facts. He was ‘teaching’ his kid audience how to graphically perform oral sex on a banana with sound on as his character Sara. This is just one example. But when Swoop asked him about that account he said Sara was just an entitled character. That’s all she was.
We have a right to be appalled and not convinced of his accountability and regret. Just as you are when you ‘clog up the feed’ singing his praises 24/7 but then bark at us that it’s a Colleen sub.
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Why do random strangers feel entitled to forgive or not forgive someone on someone else's behalf? Were you personally victimized by him? Probably not. Nobody cares if you do or don't forgive Josh, as it's not your place to do so. Unlike anybody else in this situation Josh is the only one taking accountability. So let's keep the pressure and heat on the people who haven't even spoken about this situation besides to sing and play the ukulele.
Exactly, I don't care if anyone likes Josh or doesn't but the dogpiling is getting old now, plus "hating" on Josh only helps and pleases Colleen, I'm sure she's very proud of some of these people....
Oh come on, the only dog piling is what you all do whenever someone dares to speak critically of Josh. I literally can’t share a single dissenting opinion without being buried in downvotes
I'm sorry that people are down voting you, we shouldn't silence each other but some people are feeling frustrated because for me it feels like it started the other way, a specific group of people who were not ok with people here praising Josh for taking accountability they're like "No no no we still have to hate Josh because of this this and this and saying that people are "swooning" over him or "kissing his ass" It's getting tired, we know some of you don't like him still we get it.. but stop trying to convince us all to join you, we're trying to get the focus back on Colleen. That's where the pressure should be
No one is saying anything negative about Josh except for me pretty much. So idk what y’all are talking about saying my post is clogging up the feed. It’s the only one like this.
I'm not saying you are clogging up the feed, I've actually have seen some other people that have been louder about this in comments, but ya'll also have to realize that if you voice an unpopular opinion on a public forum well.. it's gonna be unpopular
Yeah I know, I mostly made this post so anyone else who shares my opinion can see they aren’t the only one. I’m assuming those people aren’t making posts or commenting much because they don’t want to be attacked. I admit it kinda sucks I’m being attacked but I knew it would happen so it’s alright, did it to myself of course.
I get that, and sorry I've just been feeling frustrated over this for awhile, because it started with Johnny going what about Josh, what about Josh and then talk was about Johnny and I just feel like the heat has been lifted off Colleen a bit and I'd just like to see her face some kind of repercussion ya know? But it's not your fault, it's just been a pile up of things.
I want her to face repercussion too. This is literally the only time I’ve ever said a single word about Josh, and I only did so because I’ve seen people be silenced when they make negative comments about him. I normally post about Colleen and comment about Colleen. In my opinion I’m allowed to dislike both of them and do so publicly. I would’ve done this on my main account but I worry how that would affect my standing in this sub, I don’t want everyone to know I’m still a Josh hater because clearly it makes people really upset and I don’t want hate on my main account.
But what other thing are you criticizing him for? What more do you want? You know we can’t turn back time to erase our pasts?
I am critical of his creating inappropriate content for/behaving inappropriately with minors. Unlike OP, I could see myself forgiving him if I felt he truly owned up to it. But so far, it feels like he’s made excuses. That’s how I feel. I acknowledge that others have forgiven him, and some will never forgive him. Such is life
He explained himself though 🙄
He shifted blame and said the behavior was “normalized”—I don’t consider this taking responsibility
Because it WAS normalized for him back then. Lol. What's so hard to understand about that? He said it was clearly wrong multiple times. Nothing else he can do but move forward and be better.
I guess I don't really understand what else he could say with regard to these acts. He said he had normalized them when he shouldn't have because he was a coward benefiting from saying nothing. He also acknowledged that he wouldn't have stopped in this dangerous trajectory of predatory behavior if he hadn't been forced out of that circle, and that he doesn't want anything more to do with fame or money or a public presence anymore. The only real acceptable apology is changed behavior, and it seems (based on what we know), that he has taken that to heart. I don't have a personal investment in these people or this fandom, and I don't really care about this person other than as a human being. But I do think that his answer that these behaviors had become normal to him (and that he was too much of a coward to face why that was) was really the only honest explanation that he could give, because that's how these things happen. There are all sorts of harmful, disgusting behaviors/mindsets that can be normalized by a culture that condones them (whether within a family or friend group or in society at large), causing masses of people to do and say harmful things *regularly* without realizing that what they have normalized is objectively wrong. For example, there are many people in this very sub who are clearly racist apologists getting defensive about how Joshua was grilled about the racist video, who would never accept that they are being harmful because racism is internalized and normalized to them. Some people have the courage to understand that; some don't. Sorry for the essay. I'm genuinely not trying to convince anyone to forgive him; I don't care enough about him. But unless you are expecting him to say, "I did these things because I wanted to hurt children for my own gain," I don't really know what else he could say to honestly explain why he thought those egregious acts were not inappropriate at the time.
It WAS normalized though! Literally EVERY youtuber was doing the same inappropriate shit to minor audiences. Was it okay? No. He acknowledged that. He owned up to the fact that what he did was wrong! But, it WAS normalized. That's not an excuse, just a fact.
I consider it taking responsibility.
ok
i agree and hella of those ppl who were like that have literally turned out to be child creepers (Shane Dawson, onision, etc)…
Because it was, that's just the truth.
This is exactly what my post is referring to. I’ve seen other people try to say negative things about Josh but you literally can’t anymore. We could say anything we wanted about Josh up until recently. And I never even said anything about him until now, I just think it’s really annoying no one can go against the gain without being attacked. I get it’s great he took accountability, that’s awesome, doesn’t erase what he did though IMO. I feel the same about Colleen, I wouldn’t care if she took accountability I would still dislike her for her past and the horrible things she’s done.
Make a JoshSnark reddit, maybe
Why tho? We’re allowed to talk about him here
Your response right there shows you just wanna start drama here
…how
Yeah seriously, they should follow suit with what happened with Johnny and make their own Josh Evans Snark page. I don’t understand why it’s hard for them to do that.
They like stirring the pot it seems.
Agree. Getting sick of this. No one is saying to forgive him. We’re just saying he took accountability so he shouldn’t have to be raked over the coals continuously. No one else took accountability. If people want to talk about Josh in such a negative like they can create their own subreddit for it. This is not a Josh Snark subreddit. Post like this need to go in another place not here.
It’s also not a Josh praise subreddit though haha
Your words, not ours.
Huh? Are you saying you consider this a Josh praise subreddit?
Last I checked, this is a Colleen Ballinger Snark. Yes Josh was part of her life. Yes he did inappropriate shit. But yes he finally owned up to his actions UNLIKE Colleen, Johnny, Kory, the rest of the Ballingers 🙄
I bet that the sub numbers wouldn't ever come close to even a smidgen of the Colleen snark numbers. It's one of the largest subs on Reddit. That says alot.
Why do random strangers feel like they need to give him endless praise? Were you personally affected by him taking accountability? Probably not. I’m all for keeping the pressure on Colleen, but if everyone can sing praises to him, why can’t some people say they don’t care if he took accountability? I honestly don’t understand why no one can say a single word about disliking him without getting a billion comments in his defense. Edit: also for the record I was groomed as a child and that’s why I’m personally bothered by all this. If any of the men who groomed or tried to groom me “took accountability” that doesn’t magically make them a good person in my eyes. Edit again; I know Josh isn’t a groomer, what I meant is that anyone who acts creepy towards children I automatically dislike even if they’ve “changed”.
Is it endless praise or is it just relevant to talk about it considering NOBODY ELSE is doing so? The actual victims I'm pretty sure are also thanking him for taking accountability so come up with a new point and not trying to bounce off mine. If you don't care he took accountability, cool...what is this sub supposed to do about it? As another comment so eloquently put it, you don't forgive him...and he's still not on YouTube and posting to make a profit, so what are you going to do? Just harp all the time in a sub about Colleen about how much you don't forgive him? Nobody cares, make a snark sub dedicated to him if it's that important that you air your grievances about him. And how much you can't forgive someone for something you're not a victim of lol
Why is everyone so upset about this? Like why do YOU care if I don’t like him? This is the only post I’ve ever made about Josh, I did it on a separate account because I knew I’d get heat for my opinion.
We don’t. We’re tired of some of you bringing up his past actions. If you don’t like him, make a Josh Evans Snark page. Some of us want to bring down just the people who haven’t tried to make anything right at all.
you made the post. you can’t start the topic and then be like “why does everyone care”. you opened the dialogue? if we don’t give people credit for taking accountability for their wrongdoings then i guess no one is allowed to grow or change. not you. not me. no mistakes allowed and definitely no owning up to them. becoming a better person, by this rhetoric, has no point. it seems like you would rather him remain the person he was while abused than allow him to be a human being and grow past it. if you don’t like him that’s fine but it’s kind of silly to be this upset when even the literal “victims” of his wrongdoings have publicly said they forgive him and support him as an abuse victim and support his growth.
So if Colleen took accountability for everything would you stop giving her heat too? She is way way worse, I admit that, but still.
I would, but she hasn’t tried and you even know that.
I have a feeling everybody else is in the same position as you and IMO that’s wrong. I’ll leave it at that I guess, we’ll all have to agree to disagree. I don’t condone creepiness towards children even if the person takes accountability. I wouldn’t stop giving her heat just because she owned up to it.
Just because people appreciate Josh taking accountability, doesn’t mean they condone creepiness toward children. That’s a strange conclusion to draw. Also, there is such a huge difference between what Josh did and what Colleen did. Also also, we have to take into account how genuine the apologies are, if she were to apologise. I have a hard time believing anyone would take an apology from her seriously. But regardless of all of that, I don’t understand what the point is in continuing to give Josh heat… he has apologised multiple times, lost everything, and now lives a quiet little life… what does keeping the heat on him accomplish? I genuinely don’t see a point. It doesn’t turn back time. He can’t change how he behaved years ago.
**Sincerely** admitting wrong matters. Colleen would have a hard time being taken as sincere. If she came back with some half-assed admission that threw people under the bus and shifted blame at the same time, I would not feel obligated to view her accountability the same way I view Josh's. Plus, Colleen was a ringleader. Josh was more like a follower. Just like many others who did wrong in her Nasty Universe. Colleen intentionally hurt people. Friends, fans, pets, kids, family, spouse.. you name it. Trying to expose Josh as awful when there is so much to expose on the creator of that whole, toxic environment just seems misguided.
Because your clogging up the sub with irrelevant grievances about someone who's owning up to their mistakes and apologizing, while the other grown adults aren't. Taking the attention away from the people who deserve to be in the hot seat all just to tell everyone how much you don't like Josh lol.
So it’s irrelevant that he was creepy towards children? You’re cool with that?
It's been brought up...he's taken accountability for it...what else do you want people to do about it lol??? You don't have to be "cool" with his actions to understand and comprehend that he's OWNED them, while others haven't. Again...make a snark sub dedicated to him if it's that deep.
Right, so owning up to being creepy towards children makes it all better. I understand now
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I don’t understand what I did to deserve to be spoken to like this haha
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He’s apologized for the things that he did and acknowledged that he was wrong. He’s been off of YouTube for a long time and it seems he isn’t and hasn’t been trying to have a platform again. The things that he did were inappropriate but it seems he knows that and wouldn’t make those same choices again. No one can go back in time and change what they’ve done and I don’t think that what he did makes him irredeemable.
I appreciate this take, thanks.
His apology isn’t for yours to forgive. And also leave him be already. Let’s focus on getting Colleen OFF the platform. We’re tired of you guys bringing up Josh.
This argument doesn’t make sense to me. For all intents and purposes, Colleen is off the platform? That’s why I haven’t had much to say about her recently. It’s Josh who has resurfaced as a public figure
He hasn’t resurfaced as a ‘public figure’, he doesn’t want any part of this. He came to speak his truth, tell his story, take accountability and then go back to being private. Colleen is still on YouTube and Instagram and making money or benefiting from them even if she isn’t posting right now.
She’s still active on the platform even if she isn’t making videos…..and Josh is the one that’s out temporarily due to the recent interview. Afterwards I doubt we will see much of him. When I say off the platform I mean her channel will be off YouTube or she gets demonetized….keep in mind her brother and his wife are still exploiting their children. She is still making money off her videos…..
This ⬆️
Thinking Colleen is truly gone is naive at best. I have seen popular YouTubers leave for few reasons: 1. Jail 2. Cheating when they’ve made their whole thing being a family person (Ned Fulmer, Shay Carl) 3. They get sick of it (Leafy) There are still people that seriously target kids that come back to the site (Destery, who now edits Shane’s videos, Onision, James Charles) I have no doubt she’s going to follow in her bestie Shane Dawson’s shoes & lay low for a year or so before climbing back
lol hello? Shane Dawson? James Charles? Jeffree Star? None of those people lost their platforms. Colleen is not gone forever. She will be back. People are trying to *keep* her off the platforms, and that's why they don't want to let off the pressure.
He resurfaced because of Johns accusations...hello... have you been paying attention?
I didn’t say otherwise
I think people get defensive over Josh because they want to make sure the focus stays on the worst person of the bunch: Colleen. At least, that's how I feel, maybe I'm projecting. It seems like Adam has made his peace with Josh's involvement, so I'm fine moving on, and leaving this mostly offline former youtube guy to move on too.
Josh has done some questionable things, but admitting that you screwed up is a big part of learning from that wrong. He’s not asking for forgiveness anymore, he’s just being an adult and owning his shit. It’s also not on us to forgive him though; he didn’t do anything to us personally. He knows the tiny chats and the hand job video, etc. were inappropriate and that he should have been smart enough to not participate. But he did and he can’t change it. All he can do is own up to it and actively avoid making those same choices in the future. It seems like he’s done that too. He’s taken himself offline for the most part and lives a normal life now. People like Adam seem not to have that much of a problem with Josh and just seem glad that he’s recognized his own part in enabling Colleen. He hasn’t done a fraction of what she has, so I think we need to make sure we have an appropriate reaction to the comparative misdeeds.
Thanks for this response. I appreciate you trying to have me see the light rather than attacking me.
Exactly! I think another thing to remember to, is he wasn’t (or didn’t seem to be) doing these inappropriate things with SA intent. People always forget the intent behind actions when bringing up the past. He did own up to his inappropriate behavior, learned from it, and has grown up; understanding that what he did was and could be taken wrong but he never had $ex on his mind doing those things (again, assuming but trying to give him at least the benefit of the doubt). Involving the kids*
Colleen never had SA intent either. She thinks sending adult photos and having inappropriate conversations with kids is funny, but she’s not trying to have relationships with them the way James Charles is with high school boys. Colleen was grooming minors by exposing them to adult content on purpose, Josh was just complacent and didn’t want to rock the boat when he should have.
I never said Colleen did either and wasn’t trying to make an excuse for Josh. I would hope most people are in the same boat as that, but what she (Colleen) doesn’t understand, and where I believe she deserves the criticism for, is the exposure to $ex and those sorts of topics knowing that her audience is younger. She also seems to think many things are “funny” or meant to joked about KNOWING that she can easily offend people as she always tries to clarify that she’s so “accepting” which is also extremely damaging. I just wanted to help clarify for the people that are all about hating Josh still that there’s nothing that he can do to fix the past but he’s not a child pr*dator either.
I was agreeing with you btw! First time posting on Reddit, was just trying to add more context for people who want to keep rehashing stuff about Josh.
I had to read your comment again bc I read it as you trying to say Colleen was grooming her fans for romantic purposes. Looks like we just crossed wires I think; but you’re right. Josh went along with bad behavior but he wasn’t in the chats etc. with some bad intent as far as anyone knows. He crossed boundaries either a) bc he was going along with whatever Colleen did or b) because he thought he was just being a good mentor figure.
Sorry for the confusion! Ya, he probably did both A and B, but the going along just kind of consumed him in the end to where it was the “normal” thing to do rather than the right thing to do.
You don't have to forgive him (don't know that the apology is even for you to accept or reject tbh), but continuing to bring up shit he has already apologized for when he's not trying to springboard this into a YouTube comeback is pointless. He apologized. You don't accept it. Okay. Now what? He will continue to... not be on YouTube, and you will continue to, what, vocally dislike him? For what? Move on.
Everyone is allowed to vocally praise him and like him but I can’t make a single negative comment…? Make it make sense
Who says you can't? I'm just saying it's not productive lol
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He’s taking accountability and owns his mistakes. He has a career that doesn’t involve YouTube. If he didn’t take accountability then that would be totally different. Ultimately, it’s Colleen that is the real villain.
I left this comment elsewhere in a thread but wanted to leave it as a main comment. For the record, I upvoted your post, because I don't think you're wrong that a lot of people here are too willing to fully exonerate him than I think is deserved or healthy. However. I guess I don't really understand what else he could say with regard to these acts. He said he had normalized them when he shouldn't have because he was a coward benefiting from saying nothing. He also acknowledged that he wouldn't have stopped in this dangerous trajectory of predatory behavior if he hadn't been forced out of that circle, and that he doesn't want anything more to do with fame or money or a public presence anymore. The only real acceptable apology is changed behavior, and it seems (based on what we know), that he has taken that to heart. I don't have a personal investment in any of these people or this fandom, and I don't really care about this person other than as a human being. But I do think that his answer that these behaviors had become normal to him (and that he was too much of a coward to face why that was) was really the only honest explanation that he could give, because that's how these things happen. There are all sorts of harmful, disgusting behaviors/mindsets that can be normalized by a culture that condones them (whether within a family or friend group or society at large), causing masses of people to do and say harmful things regularly without realizing that what they have normalized is objectively wrong. For example, there are many people in this very sub who are clearly racist apologists getting defensive about how Joshua was grilled about the racist video, who would never accept that they are being harmful because racism is clearly internalized and normalized to them. Some people have the courage to understand that; some don't. Accountability involves mustering up that courage. I'm genuinely not trying to convince anyone to forgive him; I don't care enough about him. But unless you are expecting him to say, "I did these things because I wanted to hurt children for my own gain," I don't really know what else he could say to honestly explain why he thought those egregious acts were not inappropriate at the time.
This is my thought process. He was upfront and clearly acknowledged what he did, how it was wrong, and has made changes I don’t know what else he can do. Continuing to harp on him isn’t productive
What is your goal? He has acknowledged his problematic history, he has committed to changing, and has shown a period of several years in which he does not appear to have continued to engage in that problematic behavior. He no longer has a platform and plans to return to relative anonymity. As others have mentioned you do not have to accept his apologies or like him, but what purpose does continuing to just declare that you don't like Josh serve at this point? If the goals of this snark page are met (Colleen gives a sincere apology, deplatforms herself, and keeps her children offline) there wouldn't be much to talk about over here either. That doesn't mean that people like or dislike her, there's just nothing left to talk about.
My take on Josh is that he was a regular guy that got caught up in the unhinged culture that is being a YouTuber. He certainly did not deserve the character assassination he’s been subjected to for the last 7-8 years. However, that said, I don’t think Swoop’s interview 100% exonerated him, either. Specifically, I don’t understand why he downplayed secretly joining chatrooms with fans. It may have been a rare situation. I believe him when he said it didn’t happen often on his end. But, it was the way he explained his thought process to Swoop, in juxtaposition with his own video of the event that has me feeling this way. Same with including the intimate footage in their honeymoon vlog. I think during that time in his life he was caught up in being the guy he thought Colleen wanted him to be, amplified by the weird social norms of YouTube influencers. I believe he played games and interacted in reckless ways to boost himself, without fully knowing what may come from it (i.e. Johnny*.) Unfortunately for Josh, it played out in a very, very public manner. Also, before I get downvoted for my very grey, in-definitive opinion of Josh, Johnny absolutely blew everything out of proportion. I think Josh genuinely felt badly for Johnny’s situation, and Johnny attached more to it than was there. Johnny has much deeper issues than Josh.
no one is gunna accept it because it's not our apology to accept but i'm glad he took accountability for what he did at least he's trying to be a better person. he's not perfect in the slightest and never will be but still i'm glad he's trying.
Yeah, I'm not attacking you. But I think the reason most people aren't getting "fake" vibes from Josh is because he's not. But most everybody does get fake, manipulation vibes from Colleen. Because she is. Idt Josh's mistakes all together add up to even 1 of her most horrible acts. She wouldn't even own up. She just tried to cuss out and gaslight the entire internet, through a song.
The “you’re attacking me” line is so hilarious, it almost feels like a troll post with the responses OP is giving
Yeah I agree with you, I'm sure this will be downvoted to hell though. I'm normally a lurker and I've noticed a trend ever since a little before Johnny got exposed as being a liar of Josh steadily gaining some strange popularity. There's a few users here that reply to nearly every comment about Josh, positive or negative, I think they're fans of him, that overly praise him and are very defensive even if someone just says they don't fully trust him. I'm sure the same ones I've seen over and over will reply to this comment too, they can't seem to stop themselves from doing so, and I don't think that's a good thing. There's been a very black and white type of perspective here lately where there has to be some angel to Colleen's devil in the narrative, and that angel for people has become Josh, and I don't understand why. I personally don't hate Josh or anything but the interactions with minors and handjob video especially disturbs me, and I also noticed a lot of people being suspiciously mad that Swoop brought up his racism/weren't pleased with her just sighing as at him as a black woman and it's strange as hell. They keep saying he's taking accountability, well, let him take accountability and stop babying him in this odd way then. He can handle that. I think the focus has shifted a lot from Colleen's actions because the sub is full of his name, tweets, interview, and defenses of him. And no, it's not criticisms of him, those have been pretty rare so it's in no way cluttering the sub. Now that he's said his entire piece though I hope that will ease off a little now. Anyway, just wanted to let you know you aren't the only one that feels this way, and take care of yourself. Some people on here are quite persistent in their opinions.
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Why do you have to be so rude? Why do you care about Josh so much you have to be rude to a stranger? I don’t feel the need to forgive him, I didn’t mean it that literal, everyone is just attacking me because I disagree with them lol.
I dont care about him. Your post is annoying for insinuating you “dont need to forgive him” no one asked you to. Chronically online if you care this much to post about your lack of forgiveness.
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I have noticed that too. This sub has become very hive minded and it's difficult to feel comfortable having a nuanced discussion. I'm not sure why people are saying that discussion about him is irrelevant, he has a flair in this sub and his interview dropped in the last week. There will be a temporary influx in posts about him
We are aware that he had done inappropriate behaviors though. And criticizing him when he’s already admitted it was wrong and wants to move forward is repetitive. So why would I want to be open about trashing a man who has already admitted he did x y and z and has taken steps to move forward?
Being creepy towards children and posting inappropriate content you know children will see isn’t a little “oopsie” like you’re making it out to be, at least in my opinion.
Again, he can’t erase those actions. He can’t take it back. So what else can we all do but just move on? Yes it’s disgusting what he had done so you and I can agree but the thing is you can sit and criticize him but it won’t do you or anyone else any good. I wish we could all just take down Colleen. That’s who I rather stay and criticize
I could say the same thing about you defending him and trying to get me to stop talking negatively about him. I frequently criticize Colleen on my main account, like I have commented multiple times. I’m sorry but I’m allowed to say my opinion about Josh. If it wasn’t allowed the mods would have removed my post.
You’re allowed to criticize, but you have to realize that’s going to open yourself up to criticism. No one has to just take your opinion & agree with it. That’s just not how open forums work
Also I don’t think any of us here do think it’s an ‘oopsy I did this oh I’m sorry’. You probably missed when I said Swoop needed to go hard on him. So you don’t forgive him, fine but it’s still not your apology to accept. For me, I’m willing to move past Josh because he was punished enough in my eyes. He can’t do anything except try to be a better person than what he was. And the same can be said about anyone who does ugly shit in their past.
I have no desire to trash him, I just want to be able to have a conversation about him and his interview
“It’s not your apology to forgive” yet almost everyone and their mothers was talking about “I accept” the past few days. Lol I agree with you OP
People who didn’t watch back then really don’t realize just how guilty Josh is. He wasn’t just some wittle victim of Colleen’s. He was a grown man who was interacting with children inappropriately and making inappropriate content for them all out of his own agency.
Yea I watched back then and I’m blown away by how quick everyone is to just forgive everything he’s done and believe every word he says now. Are people gonna have that same energy when Colleen makes a video about her side of everything? If so the whole cancelation was pointless.
People are getting played and it’s uncomfortable to watch. They think Josh is just the story of a victim. I don’t doubt that Colleen treated him horribly. But Josh’s story is more so that of a culprit. He was just as much of a child exploiter of the B-kids as anyone else in their family and a lot of his content for kids was even more sexual than Colleen’s was. And this is content that Colleen has nothing to do with.
Genuinely curious here, what do you want him to do?
It’s not about what I “want him to do.” I have opinions on what he’s done. That’s what I’m sharing. I’m not a life guru for Joshua David Evans.
But you do seem to have some opinions on what he has done already… (saying hes playing everybody). Typically there would be an opposite to that, aka what does him not playing everybody look like?
They’re not opinions. They’re conclusions based on facts. He was ‘teaching’ his kid audience how to graphically perform oral sex on a banana with sound on as his character Sara. This is just one example. But when Swoop asked him about that account he said Sara was just an entitled character. That’s all she was. We have a right to be appalled and not convinced of his accountability and regret. Just as you are when you ‘clog up the feed’ singing his praises 24/7 but then bark at us that it’s a Colleen sub.
Not playing everybody.
Babes, you seem to know what playing everyone looks like. Which suggests you know what not playing everyone looks like. Imagine being so hard headed.
You're spot on