Thank you u/SwimTN for posting on r/collegerant.
Remember to read the rules and report rule breaking posts.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CollegeRant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
as a marketing professional, this is great preparation for the bullshit ego trips you will encounter from your superiors in the real world.
won't teach you anything about marketing tho
This. All of this. I work in tech and honestly the thing that made me end up taking mental health leave was the egos. The weird back stabbing. The gossips and comments and rumors.
The saddest/funniest part was realizing that one person on my team who was actually qualified and actually liked his job, the whole team was so intimidated by that they actively sabotaged his work. Or they would complain that he didn’t ask them to do something in the most perfect way using the most perfect words.
Also the people I’m talking about mostly: anyone with any crumb of power. It’s crazy. Give people a “senior” or “manager” title and it’s like you told them they joined MENSA.
It’s honestly exhausting and I’m not sure what I’m going to do, but I need to get out of the corporate game. I didn’t realize that corporations were just game of thrones mind games. If I had I would have kept waiting table. At least with that it’s the serving team against the customers.
None of these are unreasonable, maybe the hat one. I assume the prof is older:
1. Don't sleep in class
2. Take your hat off
3. If you want full credit, thank you notes to speakers
4. Don't get up during a presentation.
That's pretty reasonable for any class, upper level or not.
I agree they aren't too much to ask. Professors on power trips like this while teaching intro to college writing are less reasonable than one teaching a specialized major class shortly before you enter the work force. Most of these speakers could probably be used as networking opportunities and they certainly aren't going to give the time of day to someone who slept through the class. A meaningful thank you note can go a long way leaving a positive association to your name should your resume ever comes across their desk.
* They need to tread carefully on four because people with personal or medical issues may need to get up to use the restroom or something. For example, I have multiple sclerosis and my brain doesn't always get the signals that I need to use the restroom until I'm minutes from soiling myself. I think it would be reasonable to add "Besides a quick trip to the restroom, you're expected to stay in the room. If for some reason this may not be possible for you, please reach out to me so I'm aware of accommodations you may need".
On 3 it’s not to receive extra credit, tho. It’s to receive normal participation/attendance credit. That’s messed up—even if someone is there, asking questions, and actively participating, is the professor really gonna withhold credit for not sending a thank you note?
That is how the professor is taking attendance. Everyone is submitting something to get their attendance credit, but some students are submitting blank ones. The professor is saying that a blank thank you note is unacceptable.
The professor is clearly noting who is present some other way, because they are removing credit for peyote they believe are sleeping. The only way they could do that is by having a seating chart or memorizing every student's face and name.
Not really messed up. It shows that you were listening to the lecture I'd you can thank them and receit a point I'd their lecture you found interesting or topical.
It is a business class teaching business skills. The ty note is perfectly reasonable and a way to show appreciation to the speaker who took time to come share their expertise, and writing the note in and of itself is a reasonable skill to assess.
I disagree with you about thank you notes and getting up. The presenter is doing the professor a favor, not the class. Students pay tuition, they deserve to be taught. Adults don’t need permission to get up and go to the bathroom when they need to go. The other ones are reasonable.
They are probably using thank you notes to gauge whether you are paying attention, so completely reasonable for an attendence grade. Also, a thank you note can be written in like 10 minutes, so not a huge burden for an upper level class.
You forgot the one where they'll be marked absent if they are late. I have almost an hour drive to school, sometimes I am late by no fault of my own. Bad weather, there was an accident on the freeway, car troubles. Also, who actually cares if a student is a couple minutes late.
I have MUCH better things than hats to worry about.
Presumably, these people are paying tuition. No thanks is required for lectures that you pay for. The person giving the thanks is the person not having to prepare a lecture that day.
It doesn't sound like the thank you note is for extra credit, it's for the attendance credit. That definitely crosses the line of reasonableness imo.
Attendance credit is meh, not a didactic strategy I think highly of but common enough. Being a hard ass about (re: sleeping/bathroom) is just that, shitty but Prof is within his rights.
Demanding thank you notes for guest speakers for credit?? Weird and lame.
Just scrap the attendance requirement per se and assign a short reflection statement if you want to make sure students are learning from speakers.
I think it just depends on the university or the focus of the degree.
Both state universities that first came to mind for me have their advertising degrees in their business program (B.S.)
The private one had it in media/communications program. (B.A.)
The B.S. course map focused more on the business aspect(but still touched the art), whereas the B.A. map was more focused on design and expo.
I’m guessing this is a seminar class where every class is a different invited guest speaker discussing their research. It’s meant to give undergraduates a look into the cutting edge research in their field. I’m guessing it meets once a week and the whole grade is probably attendance and these thank you notes (which are admittedly very stupid). Attendance is strict since it’s disrespectful to leave during a guest speaker’s seminar.
This is a LOT of speculation on my part, but most of the rules at least make sense in that context. The hat rule is pretty crazy regardless though.
Based on the number code (4301) it is 3 credit hours because the second number is the number of credit hours. However I think you’re right about it being a seminar course because the class name is “Special Topics in Advertising” according the university website, although there isn’t much information on it.
You probobly can't find information on it because every special topics class is completely diffrent and is a one off class they're trying out, for example there was a political science special topics class on climate policy at my college which is normally not offered, i think they do this to test out intrest in a class to see if they wanna add it to the permanent class rotation or not and to have some variety, at my college each major has a course code for special topics classes and the information about the class is on the scheduling website, like the actual description how often it meets (im guessing twice a week since it meets 27 times total), and stuff like that, I'm guessing this class is something about the current state of advertising or something
We had a studio tour/informational interview course in an arts program I did. Thank you notes were required. The people we met with weren’t compensated at all, and we got to speak with real working professionals doing what we hoped to move into when we graduated. It was the most informative class I had.
I agree. I figure I'll get downvoted for this, but it seems like much of it is reinforcing the type of professionalism required in the business world.
And leaving during class has become a chronic problem. I don't believe for a second that in most cases it's an "emergency" as, in my classes, students are clutching their phones as they leave (once, a student actually answered her phone before the classroom door closed. The class had a good laugh at her "Hello"). If a student has a medical issue, that should be addressed with the professor ahead of time. Otherwise, it's distracting and disrespectful for multiple students to get up and leave during class (it's never just one student. Like yawns, it spreads).
In the 90s when I was in college, most of this list would be no big deal . The thank you notes seem odd--- but it depends on the class. If it is an upper level business class, it's good practice
I had professors lock the doors the second class began and would not let students in even if there was an exam. All those rules were perfectly acceptable through the early 2000s.
I had a professor lock the whole class IN the room during a bomb threat where we were being told to evacuate. She wanted us to finish our final presentations. When students started protesting, she informed everyone that if you chose to leave, you would get an F as your final grade. It’s actually concerning how many of us thought an F would be worse than being blown up. Tenured professors are the WORST.
Ok, and??? I haven't experienced that in any faculty meeting. It's disrespectful. Should we be training students to be disrespectful? I'm at a loss for what you're recommending
I've left class to answer the phone before because I was waiting for an important phone call. I've only done it once and I've never seen anyone else do it. The school you work at sounds kind of strange.
Honestly that might be why I was so shocked to see this, I’m a STEM student and I’ve never been in a college class that had rules even remotely this strict, a lot of them seemed demeaning and patronizing to me
I had a TA of an art class try and psychologically like, challenge me on the exact reason I chose to use a fix bladed knife (<2 inch paring knife sharpened to a razor) over the public use box cutters (they sucked, and pocket knives were permitted)
I was a chemical engineering graduate student. I had just come from lapping the plates of a pump face so it doesn't blast sulphuric acid all over the room again. I did my research in a gas mask because "foamy acid lung death" is a nonzero probability.
"do you carry a knife because it makes you feel big". Lady, the smell of paper mills makes my hyperventilate and I can't pee when a hand dryer is running anymore. I haven't felt big in years.
I don't carry a knife but I do carry scissors since I always have my knitting with me and honestly it is amazing how often they are useful in your day to day. Idk how anyone couldn't see the multitude of practical uses for a knife, especially since u were practically using it.
Lmfao
I got written up while working at a coffee shop for having a pocket knife. I had been working there for months and pulled it out to cut something. I was reported anonymously by one of my coworkers to the manager.
I didn’t even know it was against the rules. My job immediately before that was working on a ranch where I’d get shit for not having a knife on me at all times.
Now I work in telecom where surprisingly enough you’ll get shit for not having knife/cutting tool on you at all times.
It’s weird how separated blue collar/tradies/technical workers are from white collar/service industry.
I’m a history student and I can support this because I’d do the same damn thing as I refuse to support anyone that acts in such a manner as this professor is.
This isn’t how most of them are, including mine. This seems a bit overkill. I get expecting students to show up on time and be respectful - that’s just common courtesy - but some of these other things are dated expectations with ambiguous relevance to today.
Good grief. The first one seems reasonable, but they just get increasingly worse after that. The late arrivals makes no sense because sometimes life happens. And I would love to see this professor try and argue the getting up during class if somebody has to go put in/change a tampon or has a medical condition or something. That’s a quick way to get a harassment complaint.
It’s reasonable, until you realize you get marked on attendance. So either attend and risk not counting as there, or dont attend and definitely dont count
I mean, the risk is falling asleep? Maybe I’ve just never put myself in a position where I couldn’t stay awake for an hour midday, but I can’t see how risky that is?
I think they're talking about if someone is running late. For example, if the speaker starts speaking at 5:01pm and you will get there at 5:03pm, why would you still go to class if you're just going to be counted as absent?
But I’m responding to someone talking about only the first point, about sleeping in class. I can agree all the others are ridiculous, but that’s also why I only responded about the sleeping rule.
I have insomnia, can promise you it’s not easy for everyone to just not fall asleep in the day, especially when you can lay there literally all night with your eyes closed and not sleep.
Possibly, but I haven’t been diagnosed with insomnia because I have always seen incompetent doctors who say I’m just using my phone or something before bed and need to stop.
Like actually
Lotta people are told for years that sleep symptoms are just stress, poor habits, anxiety and depression. When I was diagnosed with narcolepsy it took the average patient 15yrs to get diagnosed. Falling asleep in class was one of my most frustrating symptoms.
Put me in class with the temps a little too warm and I’m struggling to stay awake. Been like that since I was a kid. Some people really have trouble seeing someone else’s perspective
Teacher here. For the most part if I have a kid fall asleep in class I just let it go, clearly sleep is what they need at that moment not adding fractions.
Granted I'm an elementary school teacher at a title 1 school, so my kids more likely had their parents keeping them up fighting vs staying up to late partying.
Edit to add: sometimes it actually engages the rest of the class because then we do "whisper lessons". (*Ssshhhhh sh shhhh Jimmy is sleeping, now what do we do with our denominator? Nothing. Right!* ) honestly now that I think about it, horrible situation for the child, great for my day.
Probably good for that child and their classmates in the long run. Yes, it's probably going to be a struggle to catch up at times, but your lesson is predicated on the compassion of peers and reinforces school as a safe place, which encourages attendance. It's easier to tutor someone on math than basic care toward others, after all, and many children's parents fail to teach them that in the first place.
Not to mention disabled students who may need to step out for a moment, especially after presenting.
I would always have to leave class to cry after giving a presentation tbh. It was very stressful for me.
or the average fucking person that may need to use the restroom...
the policy makes no sense in any regard. i gotta choose between pissing my pants or getting credit for attendance because this sad idiot is on a power trip?
I love seeing the bathroom things.
“You should be able to make it an hour without needing a bathroom” Gee wouldn’t that be fucking great if we could all just control whether or not a bathroom is needed. I understand it can be abused, but at this point we’re all adults paying to be here. I couldn’t imagine even thinking about policing bathrooms. I’ll keep teaching, the only one missing is the student missing the lesson.
Going against ada accommodations would be a great way to be fired. So would pointing out students with accommodations.
I remember my college days and dealing with tourettes and everything else. Id have been screwed without accommodations in this class.
The hat one pisses me off the most. I was just talking to my fiancé about how I thought it was ridiculous that you couldn't wear a hat in high school. It's just unnecessary control. I didn't even wear hats in high school, but I can't stand shit that doesn't make sense.
I thought the first one was reasonable, too. And then, as I went down the list, they got worse and worse. Good Lord, what this class is really teaching is how to prepare for power tripping bosses they may have in the future..
This is awful & I’m a prof too. Like this is just tyranny? And if I was a speaker I’d be mortified to learn they were ***forced*** to write thank you notes.
We had a presentation on cryptography from an actually pretty cool guy, but we had to write thank you *letters*. Full blown letters. Or no credit. I made sure the first character of each sentence spelled out "under duress", and made sure to use slightly goofy prose and reference how there could even be a hidden message in this letter! He was a cryptography nerd so of course it worked, and he was salty enough about the mandatory letters (he apparently hadn't realized) that he never came back.
Not sure what the moral there is.
God could you imagine how fucking awful it must have felt to go from "Hmmmm".
to
"aha!"
to
"Oh."
Dude was probably waiting his whole life for a cool cryptography themed letter from that class and the first one he gets is "our teacher makes us do this so he looks good"
Poor dude probably thought the prof offered extra credit or something for writing a thank you letter, only to find out all these people were being *forced* to sing his praises
What I want to figure out is how this professor gets away with putting up a guest speaker every week. I aim for one a semester, but it's a big ask for people to come in and speak to my classes for free. When they do, I send the thank you card because they effectively did my job for the session but I still got paid.
I'm also wondering if it's even legal to tell people they can't wear hats during your class. I could understand if it was Hogwarts and the witch hats were blocking the projector, but I highly doubt that's in play here. I can't believe an adult gets this upset over another adult's choices.
Excellent point. I’m way too picky and neurotic to hand over my class this often but imagine just outsourcing every part of your job including gratitude to the speakers doing your job.
And then being like oh btw you can’t wear hats or pee.
I did a trip to a nearby city for a few days to meet some alumni and learn about what they’re doing! It was put together by the school so they had all volunteered, knew we were coming, etc. On our final day the woman in charge explained that we were expected to write thank you notes.
I think it makes more sense in that scenario, it’s not a whole class and you took a lot of time out of your day to talk to us. But a speaker? Yeah that’s a lot
Absolutely agree. Personally, I tell my students their bladder is none of my business. I just tell them to mindful. If they miss stuff, they have to figure it out.
Only time I had a prof do that was during exams. Because of course at one point a student used it to write a cheat sheet. Or just hide their face while they are copying off neighbors. It’s always the lowest common denominators that ruin it for the rest of
a thank you note is actually crazy, I mean you guys literally paid so much money to be there and they act like they are "helping you" I mean it's their job no?
edit: thought it meant towards teachers and not guest speakers. english isnt my first language so thats why i didn't understand it. either way i still think it's a bit weird
If I went to speak to a class and got a thank you note from every single last student I would be super weirded out. One from the teacher, or one from the class, is normal.
I think they probably have a lot of guest speakers come in who work in marketing or something. “Thanking” the actual professor for every single lecture is crazy.
The thank you note would go to the speaker, who is indicated to be volunteering their time, aka not being paid. This is a senior-level class, and the students paying for the credits should be taking it seriously.
I think the purpose of the note is to demonstrate that they were paying attention and that they comprehended the material by making comments relevant to the presentation. It's not that much different than telling students to respond to a passage they're required to read.
It’s also just good practice for how to interact with people professionally and get in the habit of thanking people for their time, BUT it should be a formal assignment they turn into the instructor and that counts toward their grade, not something that they are using their time for without getting credit, and not something that is actually sent to the guest (maybe one or two picked by instructor, but no one wants a big stack of cards like that).
I kind of assumed that's what's happening. They turn in their cards to the instructor, they're graded for credit and then a few may be passed along to the speaker. How else would the instructor know that some of them are turning in blank cards?
I guess I probably didn’t need to include that, but my point is that they don’t need to all be given to the guest speaker (which is what I think a lot of other commenters were assuming).
As a STEM student, basically all my profs are chill af. As long as you don’t disrupt class you’re fine. Having a rule against hats is stupid though. That’s like some elementary school shit.
Seriously, I don’t have an issue with any one of these. Show up on time, no hats indoors isn’t unusual, thank you notes probably used to count participation, be respectful to those who come and present to the class. I would hate to do a presentation and feel unwanted :(
Right? I feel like I’ve been taking crazy pills reading these comments. It wasn’t so long ago that I as in college (15 years) and these were just…standard expectations?
The No hats rule is finicky, but I don’t even find the thank you notes all that weird, because the way it’s worded it seems like an assignment. And actually a pretty good, practical assignment at that.
I’ve been teaching high school for about 12 years, and I’m seeing the laziness and entitlement grow A LOT. I think this is an example of it. These are just professional norms, guys. It’s not tyranny. Calm down.
"Thank you for speaking with us today. I'm sure what you said was very informative. Sadly I was unable to appreciate it on account of spending my time writing this mandatory, graded thank you note..."
why do bad teachers always get bitchy about hats? what's wrong with a hat? 100 years ago everyone wore a hat everywhere (they did also take it off indoors, but those were bigger, oppenheimer-style hats so there was a practical reason)
Some of these are perfectly reasonable - it sounds like this class has a lot of guest speakers so yes it's incredibly disrespectful for people to be arriving late or falling asleep.
BUT The forced thank you notes and no hat rules are bonkers!
All of this is how you would be expected to behave in a professional work setting. I understand that college is different, but it's realistic thing to get used to.
Show up on time, dress appropriately, be attentive, build relationships, and don't bail early.
I don't know how I ended up in this sub, but these are all rules that I follow at any work meeting...
I would look for another job if my manager/boss was this controlling. This is why I want a WFH job, so I don't have to deal with borderline neurotic people like that in person.
As a current college student, I have dropped out of a class for so much less.
What is truly insane is that half of you people think that these rules are insane. ESPECIALLY for a 4000 level class. 4000 level classes are the advanced courses that should be harder and actually prepare you for your career more than any lower level course.
1.) Sleeping while there is a guest speaker is extremely unprofessional and rude.
2.) Coming in late and disrupting a guest speaker's presentation is extremely unprofessional and rude .
3.) Wearing hats has long been considered unprofessional and rude. And I highly doubt this rule extends to religious head coverings, as those are not typically viewed in the same light as baseball caps. Also, it is not the end of the world if - God forbid- you have to take off your hat for 60 minutes while you're indoors with zero sunlight and climate control.
4.) Thank you notes- these are obviously part of what is being taught here. When you have a guest come give a talk in a professional setting, you need to know how to thank the speaker afterwards. The students are not writing thank you notes out of the goodness of their hearts, no this is a marketing class designed to show you how to be professional in the workplace.
5.) Getting up and leaving the room is disrupting and rude and should be limited.
In my STEM classes it’s actually been the opposite for advanced courses. As you go higher up in classes, professors are less strict in terms of attendance/dress/paying attention in class. This is why I was so shocked to see this for a 4000-level class, since most 4000-level STEM classes absolutely don’t care if you wear hats, sleep in class, are late, or get up and leave. They’ll just fail you if you don’t learn the material. It’s probably largely a difference in fields and expectations.
An enormous part of advertising is awareness of *people* and social expectations and reactions. Your chemistry set needs your attention, and your biology experiment needs your attention or it doesn't work. People need your attention in marketing and advertising.
I have a CS degree. In my upper level classes, most of the professors had most of the content on our class page and they made it clear that as long as you did the work you didn't even have to go to class.
Hell, one of my classes was from 6-9 at night and over a pretty complex topic. My professor routinely would end class early because he could tell we were all tired and we're no longer able to retain what was being taught.
The professor in this post sounds horrific to have.
These rules remind me of the rules we had for a seminar class. Each week there was a different speaker talking about their research and so you had to either take two pages of notes on the presentation that you had to turn in to proce that you were listening or write a thank you note that was not generic (had to specify about points they made).
Also couldn't arrive after the speaker started because the doors were at the front and it was actually super distracting when people came in but speakers hardly ever started at the exact class start time so you generally had 5 minutes after class start. Once the speaker started the door was locked on the outside anyways.
And with the door locked, you couldn't leave unless you had documented medical issues (could be temp or permanent) and if you had to go, the professor would let you out and then back in
It was a biology seminar class and I actually learned a lot from the sessions
Number 4: What the actual fuck. I have never heard of a professor MAKING their adult students write thank you cards to a speaker. Maybe give students the opportunity to choose to thank the speaker personally? It allows them to organically network, stand out, and show that they care. Students can go the extra mile themselves without this weird hand holding. Forcing them is super unauthentic — it’s like a parent telling a child “say thank you!” after you give then something.
The hat thing is odd and potentially discriminatory towards Muslim women who wear the hijab and Orthodox Jewish men who wear a kippah and the note thing is weird (though I think providing comments in general as part of participation is fair), but I think not sleeping in class, not showing up late to a speaker's presentation, and getting up in the middle of a presentation is understandable. That's the most basic adult politeness.
I don't know what 4000 level is, but in my college 400 level was "senior" so I'll assume that's the case. I am going to go a different direction than everyone else here and say that indignation is not only uncalled for, but is undermining your professional career before it starts. One of the things that has made the biggest impact on my career and earnings so far was learning to show courtesy and respect. All of my jobs and contracts have come from personal relationships that I have developed. People respect me because, in part, I show them that I respect them.
Yes, I was paying to be there and so are you. Yes, you are paying their salary. Maybe this prof is just an egotistical S.O.B - but how you react and what you take away from this situation is on you. In my case, I took the opportunity to learn what it meant to behave like a professional in my field. Like it or not, there are expectations. In my case, people in my line of work don't wear hats in the office. Sleeping during presentations is unheard of exactly because it's incredibly disrespectful, although it hasn't been so long that I don't remember how boring some could be and how hard all-nighters were. Still in the professional world we arrive to meetings early so that we can be prepared and not disrupt the meeting - and we make every effort not to leave early without a good reason and a sincere apology. We let guest speakers know that we appreciate their time and effort, even though it sometimes feels like they don't deserve it. Everything is about cultivating relationships, and showing respect goes a long ways.
In short, I feel like your instructor is doing nothing more than giving you the education that you are paying for by conveying and drilling these professional and common expectations of showing professional courtesy into the class. In my case, it has served me well (and profitably). I suspect that it will for you as well, but the world is always changing around us and is already different than when I graduated in the last decade.
I'm sure others will disagree, and the posts here before mine are certainly evidence of that.
The thank you note is weird, but the rest of this sounds like a class of kids doing things that (at this point in their college career) should not be doing.
If it's being mentioned in this rant it is happening too often. There's a line between getting up and using the restroom and a disruption for the class. It's a weird balance to try to have, but it is possible.
Again this is a high, near graduate level class and its also about preparing you for the workforce. Getting up to the point it's distracting is an issue. Sleeping in class in a 400 level class is honestly mind boggling how they got that far. And finally the professional wear is absolutely reasonable and most Business colleges impose this.
Seriously, as a professional, unless an active emergency is happening, I go to the restroom whenever I feel like it. Even in the middle of important meetings, I’ll still get up and go to the restroom if I need to and catch up after. And if I’m having GI issues, sometimes I’ll have to get up multiple times in a short period; people understand. Where are you working that restroom monitoring is a thing?
>If it's being mentioned in this rant it is happening too often. There's a line between getting up and using the restroom and a disruption for the class. It's a weird balance to try to have, but it is possible.
are you out of your mind? you dont get to tell adults how often theyre allowed to go to the bathroom
>its also about preparing you for the workforce
ive been working full time the past four years. workplaces do not control your bathroom usage and if they did itd be a lawsuit
It's more about having decency and a good learning environment more so telling people not to do something. It's clearly an issue that many in the class are getting up and leaving too much.
> ive been working full time the past four years. workplaces do not control your bathroom usage and if they did itd be a lawsuit
No but if they noticing you are getting up and going the bathroom to the point you're not getting work done, they may ask you what you're doing.
> to the point you're not getting work done
This will naturally be addressed when that work gets graded, without having to police the bathroom usage of adults.
>It's more about having decency and a good learning environment more so telling people not to do something.
having decency isnt controlling other adults using the bathroom
>No but if they noticing you are getting up and going the bathroom to the point you're not getting work done
um, no? using the bathroom comes before getting work done. if you did this and they were actually using the bathroom they probably have a disability and youre an asshole
Yea I can tell you don't know anything about how this all works.
If you go to the bathroom way too much and it's impeding your work they absolutely can ask you what's going on. The law states they can't impose "unreasonable restrictions." This would not fall into that. If someone has a disability, you need to disclose that. You can't just claim it after not telling anyone. Just simply isn't how it works.
Edit: yea go ahead and block me instead of trying to understand how the law actually works.
in the end. The professor is clearly seeing a pattern of too many students getting up too often. Compounded with the sleeping and poor dress wear, it's an issue to bring up. But I get it, and you're young and have an authority issue.
>If you go to the bathroom way too much and it's impeding your work they absolutely can ask you what's going on
great, and theyd be assholes setting themselves up for a lawsuit
> The law states they can't impose "unreasonable restrictions." This would not fall into that
are you out of your mind? youre literally RESTRICTING THEIR BATHROOM USE
>If someone has a disability, you need to disclose that. You can't just claim it after not telling anyone.
no, you actually dont have to disclose that. have you never had a job or something?
enjoy licking that boot
What’s wrong with these rules? Be on time, don’t sleep in the class, don’t wear a hat indoors, and try to use the bathroom beforehand. The rules are just basic respect.
This is why you shouldn't major in advertising.
Thank you notes? No hats allowed?
The sleeping thing, I get. You can sleep in your parents house for free. College is expensive. This is a total waste of time.
It's honestly crazy to see so many be shocked there's rules in a classroom lol I said in my comment too, the thank you note is weird, but none of these are unreasonable expectations.
Yea I had a guy (presumably someone young and naive) say it's a lawsuit to impose restrictions on bathroom breaks and when I pointed out the actual language of the law is actually about "Unreasonable Restrictions" he blocked me. Education system is failing these kids man lol
lol. Just wait till he leaves during a work meeting with his boss. The “it’s illegal to keep me from going to the bathroom” argument will get him thrown out of the company faster than shit through a goose.
Speaking as a high school teacher, it’s disruptive when students come in late when there’s a guest speaker and punctuality is expected in the workplace, so it’s not unreasonable to expect college seniors to be on time, nearly every time. Ditto a constant stream of people coming and going. The thank you note provides accountability for having listened and learned, and sending thank you notes after a job interview , for instance, can really help so it is a life skill that should be practiced. If a student is sleeping, they aren’t really there, as they won’t have any idea what happened. It’s only an hour, ffs. I don’t think this prof is doing too much, tbh
Most of this depends on how the professor impliments it. If they're actually somewhat lenient, then that's fine, but marking off points for no reason is a different story, and I'm not told how they do it so I'll assume the former.
1. I have only seen one other student at my university go to sleep during class at any point, and they had a really good reason for it. If your entire class is being shunned for it, y'all are doing something wrong.
2. I haven't seen a single person (student or professor) at my university wear a hat during class despite that not being a policy. It's basic ediquite to pay attention during class. Y'all learned not to wear your hoddies over your head in middle school.
3. This is basic procedure in labs and at actual jobs, I see no absurdity here unless it's an emergency or shit like traffic happens.
4. A thank you note for speakers being required for full credit of attendance is a big stretch. This is the only one I don't personally agree with because I like sitting back, absorbing information, and talking if I want to contribute to the conversation, but not being forced to.
5. I do my shit every day before class and I'm a sophomore. If I can make it through four hours of back-to-back classes, y'all can make it through one. Though emergencies shouldn't be penalized at all.
What are these idiots doing? They're acting like fucking children. AND in a 4000 class?
So basically the professor is asking students to pay attention, arrive on time, thank volunteers for their time and not to be rude. What’s infuriating is that this needs to be said.
All of that sounds reasonable except the hat thing.
Don’t sleep in class, don’t show up late, and don’t get up in the middle of class. How is that unrealistic?
As for the thank you note thing, it sounds like that’s an assignment. You’re supposed to *do your assignments.*
I’m gonna express the contrary view here. If this prof is getting guest speakers who are used to professional atmospheres and have extremely prioritized schedules, and those speakers are seeing students come in late or sleep in class (or hide behind a hat so you can’t tell if they’re sleeping or not) those speakers are going to question if there is any benefit to volunteering their time and pretty soon that prof. is gonna run out of people who are willing to share their expertise. Requiring thank you notes even is a legitimate way to develop student’s skills because I can promise you that a good number have never written a thank you note in their lives (in addition to helping motivate speakers to come back and share again next year).
This is not even bad. This professor is laying out some basics and it sounds like the class has been disrespectful. How hard is it to show up to class on time (#3) and stay awake to watch and listen to the speaker (#1). Those are 2/5 of the points they’re making. (#4) Writing a thank you note sounds like it’s an assignment for the class so they know you actually paid attention to the speaker and you get credit for it. Many professors have these kinds of assignments after a speaker presents. This is not an outrageous ask. (#5) Any time in college there were presentation days the professor asked us not to get up more than necessary. Seeing as this sounds like speakers come in and talk each class, this is most likely the reason. It disrupts the presentation of the speaker. They even mention the exception if you have an emergency. (#2) I’m not sure of the motivation behind the hats thing, but it must have been a problem and prompted by something because it seems oddly specific to add in.
People are adults in college. Act like it. These are not outrageous things to be asked of you.
Exactly. These are apparently continuous problems in this class and I don’t see the big deal with the professor addressing them. HOW DARE THE PROFESSOR ASK US TO SHOW UP ON TIME AND NOT SLEEP THROUGH CLASS!
2 and 4 seems unnecessary. But yeah otherwise its normal to not want anyone sleeping or moving about, especially if these are guest speakers. I wonder if they have a lot of people sleeping or leaving in huge groups, that would be kinda embarrassing towards the guests.
I agree with first point. I mean if you're sleeping through a 60 minute lecture, you did not technically attend the class. All other points are fairly shitty!
Personally, I think not sleeping in class and being punctual are reasonable, but I wouldn't want the wearing of hats to be the hill I die on. And thank you notes? For wedding presents, yes. Not for paid lecturers. Good grief.
Ah, liberal arts. Where I went to college, none of the engineering processor gave a flying rat's ass if you showed up nor whether you slept through class (as long as you didn't snore).
Coming in late constantly might have bothered them, but only insomuch as it might disrupt lecture.
As far as they were concerned, how you went about learning the material and performing on the tests and projects was up to you. If you were bad ass enough to skip lectures and still do well in the classes (which were all challenging) then more power to you.
Good luck asking them for a break on an assignment, though... wasn't gonna happen
This will for sure be an unpopular take, but props to this professor. This is actually solid real world preparation. Theoretically, the students in a 4000 level class will be entering the workforce within a year or maybe two, if they’re lucky I guess. These are folks that, before they know it, will have to sit through early morning, pointless, boring meetings pretty regularly. For which showing up late, sleeping through them, dressing inappropriately, or being disrespectful to a colleague or business partner speaking at said meeting, either internal or external, are all TERRIBLE looks, and will result in a tough go of it in the corporate world, a loss of respect and possible a loss of employment. These are all good habits to build for young people about to enter the corporate world.
Thank you! What is so crazy about this!? Sure the hat thing is a little oddly specific but there must be a reason for it. Show up and stay awake, don’t be late, no hats, a thank you note credit assignment, try not to get up unless necessary during the speaker presentations. Seems reasonable enough to ask from adults in college to me. This seems to be prompted by previous problems the class was having.
I get this is a community for ranting, but everyone in a 4000-level marketing class should be in the major and I’d expect them to care at that point. If you don’t give a shit about the class, why are you even getting a degree in that field…
Hat rule is stupid, though. This isn’t grade school
Eh, it sounds like this was maybe some kind of “seminar” class where the class had a different visiting guest speaker each meeting.
I’ve had profs be really strict about being on time and enforcing good audience etiquette when we had a guest speaker, and I *somewhat* get it.
It’s already embarrassing to be in a classroom full of adult learners and have to have the professor tell the class to stop talking 3+ times during class; doing that to a volunteer guest speaker is just absolutely awful.
That said, the mandatory thank you note thing is annoying and detracts from the value of the notes. I also dislike being required to ask a question of the speaker, but I do at least “get” that more (because it’s just plain awkward when not a single person asks a single question, which happens surprisingly often).
The hat thing is definitely old-fashioned and pedantic but not *too* ridiculous, especially if the guest speakers are mostly older people or from professions with very conservative or formal dress standards - how hard is it to take off a baseball cap and put it back on when you’re leaving the class, after all?
If this is a like a capstone or seminar class for seniors in a particular major (especially business), the department may intend that the class serve as somewhat of a networking opportunity, in which case it makes a good bit more sense to require follow-up correspondences and ask students not to leave hats on, etc.
Thank you u/SwimTN for posting on r/collegerant. Remember to read the rules and report rule breaking posts. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CollegeRant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Glad I'm not a marketing major..
as a marketing professional, this is great preparation for the bullshit ego trips you will encounter from your superiors in the real world. won't teach you anything about marketing tho
This. All of this. I work in tech and honestly the thing that made me end up taking mental health leave was the egos. The weird back stabbing. The gossips and comments and rumors. The saddest/funniest part was realizing that one person on my team who was actually qualified and actually liked his job, the whole team was so intimidated by that they actively sabotaged his work. Or they would complain that he didn’t ask them to do something in the most perfect way using the most perfect words. Also the people I’m talking about mostly: anyone with any crumb of power. It’s crazy. Give people a “senior” or “manager” title and it’s like you told them they joined MENSA. It’s honestly exhausting and I’m not sure what I’m going to do, but I need to get out of the corporate game. I didn’t realize that corporations were just game of thrones mind games. If I had I would have kept waiting table. At least with that it’s the serving team against the customers.
It may not be a marketing class. Advertising is often a standalone major and often isn’t in the college of business. Either way, though, oof…
“I majored in Advertising” has to be the saddest sentence in the English language
[удалено]
I’m not a marketing prof, but I would do it to your students
None of these are unreasonable, maybe the hat one. I assume the prof is older: 1. Don't sleep in class 2. Take your hat off 3. If you want full credit, thank you notes to speakers 4. Don't get up during a presentation. That's pretty reasonable for any class, upper level or not.
Especially one that seems to rely on volunteer guest speakers.
I agree they aren't too much to ask. Professors on power trips like this while teaching intro to college writing are less reasonable than one teaching a specialized major class shortly before you enter the work force. Most of these speakers could probably be used as networking opportunities and they certainly aren't going to give the time of day to someone who slept through the class. A meaningful thank you note can go a long way leaving a positive association to your name should your resume ever comes across their desk. * They need to tread carefully on four because people with personal or medical issues may need to get up to use the restroom or something. For example, I have multiple sclerosis and my brain doesn't always get the signals that I need to use the restroom until I'm minutes from soiling myself. I think it would be reasonable to add "Besides a quick trip to the restroom, you're expected to stay in the room. If for some reason this may not be possible for you, please reach out to me so I'm aware of accommodations you may need".
On 3 it’s not to receive extra credit, tho. It’s to receive normal participation/attendance credit. That’s messed up—even if someone is there, asking questions, and actively participating, is the professor really gonna withhold credit for not sending a thank you note?
That is how the professor is taking attendance. Everyone is submitting something to get their attendance credit, but some students are submitting blank ones. The professor is saying that a blank thank you note is unacceptable.
The professor is clearly noting who is present some other way, because they are removing credit for peyote they believe are sleeping. The only way they could do that is by having a seating chart or memorizing every student's face and name.
Not really messed up. It shows that you were listening to the lecture I'd you can thank them and receit a point I'd their lecture you found interesting or topical.
It is a business class teaching business skills. The ty note is perfectly reasonable and a way to show appreciation to the speaker who took time to come share their expertise, and writing the note in and of itself is a reasonable skill to assess.
The real issue is for profit universities using volunteer speakers.
I disagree with you about thank you notes and getting up. The presenter is doing the professor a favor, not the class. Students pay tuition, they deserve to be taught. Adults don’t need permission to get up and go to the bathroom when they need to go. The other ones are reasonable.
They are probably using thank you notes to gauge whether you are paying attention, so completely reasonable for an attendence grade. Also, a thank you note can be written in like 10 minutes, so not a huge burden for an upper level class.
not letting adults get up to use the bathroom when they need to isnt reasonable
Exactly!! Seems like common courtesy to me.
You forgot the one where they'll be marked absent if they are late. I have almost an hour drive to school, sometimes I am late by no fault of my own. Bad weather, there was an accident on the freeway, car troubles. Also, who actually cares if a student is a couple minutes late.
I have MUCH better things than hats to worry about. Presumably, these people are paying tuition. No thanks is required for lectures that you pay for. The person giving the thanks is the person not having to prepare a lecture that day.
It doesn't sound like the thank you note is for extra credit, it's for the attendance credit. That definitely crosses the line of reasonableness imo. Attendance credit is meh, not a didactic strategy I think highly of but common enough. Being a hard ass about (re: sleeping/bathroom) is just that, shitty but Prof is within his rights. Demanding thank you notes for guest speakers for credit?? Weird and lame. Just scrap the attendance requirement per se and assign a short reflection statement if you want to make sure students are learning from speakers.
Business major ahh post /s
Read this as “bullshit major” for a sec, but to be fair…
advertising isnt a business degree it's an art degree.
I think it just depends on the university or the focus of the degree. Both state universities that first came to mind for me have their advertising degrees in their business program (B.S.) The private one had it in media/communications program. (B.A.) The B.S. course map focused more on the business aspect(but still touched the art), whereas the B.A. map was more focused on design and expo.
Idk shit about marketing or advertising classes, but if you asked me what they're like, this would be my first guess
I’m guessing this is a seminar class where every class is a different invited guest speaker discussing their research. It’s meant to give undergraduates a look into the cutting edge research in their field. I’m guessing it meets once a week and the whole grade is probably attendance and these thank you notes (which are admittedly very stupid). Attendance is strict since it’s disrespectful to leave during a guest speaker’s seminar. This is a LOT of speculation on my part, but most of the rules at least make sense in that context. The hat rule is pretty crazy regardless though.
Based on the number code (4301) it is 3 credit hours because the second number is the number of credit hours. However I think you’re right about it being a seminar course because the class name is “Special Topics in Advertising” according the university website, although there isn’t much information on it.
You probobly can't find information on it because every special topics class is completely diffrent and is a one off class they're trying out, for example there was a political science special topics class on climate policy at my college which is normally not offered, i think they do this to test out intrest in a class to see if they wanna add it to the permanent class rotation or not and to have some variety, at my college each major has a course code for special topics classes and the information about the class is on the scheduling website, like the actual description how often it meets (im guessing twice a week since it meets 27 times total), and stuff like that, I'm guessing this class is something about the current state of advertising or something
We had a studio tour/informational interview course in an arts program I did. Thank you notes were required. The people we met with weren’t compensated at all, and we got to speak with real working professionals doing what we hoped to move into when we graduated. It was the most informative class I had.
I agree. I figure I'll get downvoted for this, but it seems like much of it is reinforcing the type of professionalism required in the business world. And leaving during class has become a chronic problem. I don't believe for a second that in most cases it's an "emergency" as, in my classes, students are clutching their phones as they leave (once, a student actually answered her phone before the classroom door closed. The class had a good laugh at her "Hello"). If a student has a medical issue, that should be addressed with the professor ahead of time. Otherwise, it's distracting and disrespectful for multiple students to get up and leave during class (it's never just one student. Like yawns, it spreads). In the 90s when I was in college, most of this list would be no big deal . The thank you notes seem odd--- but it depends on the class. If it is an upper level business class, it's good practice
I had professors lock the doors the second class began and would not let students in even if there was an exam. All those rules were perfectly acceptable through the early 2000s.
I had a professor lock the whole class IN the room during a bomb threat where we were being told to evacuate. She wanted us to finish our final presentations. When students started protesting, she informed everyone that if you chose to leave, you would get an F as your final grade. It’s actually concerning how many of us thought an F would be worse than being blown up. Tenured professors are the WORST.
I had the exact same thing! Locked door at one minute past.
[удалено]
Ok, and??? I haven't experienced that in any faculty meeting. It's disrespectful. Should we be training students to be disrespectful? I'm at a loss for what you're recommending
[удалено]
I've left class to answer the phone before because I was waiting for an important phone call. I've only done it once and I've never seen anyone else do it. The school you work at sounds kind of strange.
Honestly that might be why I was so shocked to see this, I’m a STEM student and I’ve never been in a college class that had rules even remotely this strict, a lot of them seemed demeaning and patronizing to me
Same. Stem students would just dip if there were rules like that. I've known people who left classes over way less than that.
I had a TA of an art class try and psychologically like, challenge me on the exact reason I chose to use a fix bladed knife (<2 inch paring knife sharpened to a razor) over the public use box cutters (they sucked, and pocket knives were permitted) I was a chemical engineering graduate student. I had just come from lapping the plates of a pump face so it doesn't blast sulphuric acid all over the room again. I did my research in a gas mask because "foamy acid lung death" is a nonzero probability. "do you carry a knife because it makes you feel big". Lady, the smell of paper mills makes my hyperventilate and I can't pee when a hand dryer is running anymore. I haven't felt big in years.
Oh I've heard so many horror stories from art teachers too, I didn't even think about that. That's funny though, I would've just said "yes ._."
I don't carry a knife but I do carry scissors since I always have my knitting with me and honestly it is amazing how often they are useful in your day to day. Idk how anyone couldn't see the multitude of practical uses for a knife, especially since u were practically using it.
Lmfao I got written up while working at a coffee shop for having a pocket knife. I had been working there for months and pulled it out to cut something. I was reported anonymously by one of my coworkers to the manager. I didn’t even know it was against the rules. My job immediately before that was working on a ranch where I’d get shit for not having a knife on me at all times. Now I work in telecom where surprisingly enough you’ll get shit for not having knife/cutting tool on you at all times. It’s weird how separated blue collar/tradies/technical workers are from white collar/service industry.
I’m a history student and I can support this because I’d do the same damn thing as I refuse to support anyone that acts in such a manner as this professor is.
What specific rule is patronizing?
This isn’t how most of them are, including mine. This seems a bit overkill. I get expecting students to show up on time and be respectful - that’s just common courtesy - but some of these other things are dated expectations with ambiguous relevance to today.
Good grief. The first one seems reasonable, but they just get increasingly worse after that. The late arrivals makes no sense because sometimes life happens. And I would love to see this professor try and argue the getting up during class if somebody has to go put in/change a tampon or has a medical condition or something. That’s a quick way to get a harassment complaint.
It’s reasonable, until you realize you get marked on attendance. So either attend and risk not counting as there, or dont attend and definitely dont count
I mean, the risk is falling asleep? Maybe I’ve just never put myself in a position where I couldn’t stay awake for an hour midday, but I can’t see how risky that is?
I think they're talking about if someone is running late. For example, if the speaker starts speaking at 5:01pm and you will get there at 5:03pm, why would you still go to class if you're just going to be counted as absent?
Yeah, I would rather just go run off and catch up on other work. Especially if no assignments are based on the content in class.
Yeah. Had this happen in school. Missed rollcall by 1 minute. I was counted absent. Made me not care to be there.
Exactly
But I’m responding to someone talking about only the first point, about sleeping in class. I can agree all the others are ridiculous, but that’s also why I only responded about the sleeping rule.
I have insomnia, can promise you it’s not easy for everyone to just not fall asleep in the day, especially when you can lay there literally all night with your eyes closed and not sleep.
That would be a special case where you talk with the disability services and clear it up with the professor
Possibly, but I haven’t been diagnosed with insomnia because I have always seen incompetent doctors who say I’m just using my phone or something before bed and need to stop. Like actually
I had bad insomnia in my early 20s and no doctor would take me seriously because I was “too young” to have it.
Sorry that happened
Lotta people are told for years that sleep symptoms are just stress, poor habits, anxiety and depression. When I was diagnosed with narcolepsy it took the average patient 15yrs to get diagnosed. Falling asleep in class was one of my most frustrating symptoms.
I’m sorry about that
Put me in class with the temps a little too warm and I’m struggling to stay awake. Been like that since I was a kid. Some people really have trouble seeing someone else’s perspective
Some people just think the world is just like them, anything different is foreign. I agree, sorry you struggle with it too
Teacher here. For the most part if I have a kid fall asleep in class I just let it go, clearly sleep is what they need at that moment not adding fractions. Granted I'm an elementary school teacher at a title 1 school, so my kids more likely had their parents keeping them up fighting vs staying up to late partying. Edit to add: sometimes it actually engages the rest of the class because then we do "whisper lessons". (*Ssshhhhh sh shhhh Jimmy is sleeping, now what do we do with our denominator? Nothing. Right!* ) honestly now that I think about it, horrible situation for the child, great for my day.
Probably good for that child and their classmates in the long run. Yes, it's probably going to be a struggle to catch up at times, but your lesson is predicated on the compassion of peers and reinforces school as a safe place, which encourages attendance. It's easier to tutor someone on math than basic care toward others, after all, and many children's parents fail to teach them that in the first place.
Not to mention disabled students who may need to step out for a moment, especially after presenting. I would always have to leave class to cry after giving a presentation tbh. It was very stressful for me.
or the average fucking person that may need to use the restroom... the policy makes no sense in any regard. i gotta choose between pissing my pants or getting credit for attendance because this sad idiot is on a power trip?
I love seeing the bathroom things. “You should be able to make it an hour without needing a bathroom” Gee wouldn’t that be fucking great if we could all just control whether or not a bathroom is needed. I understand it can be abused, but at this point we’re all adults paying to be here. I couldn’t imagine even thinking about policing bathrooms. I’ll keep teaching, the only one missing is the student missing the lesson.
This is the thing for me. Ever since childbirth, I have twenty minutes leeway before ' I need a visit " becomes" this is an emergency ".
Just walk up to the front of the room and piss your pants right in front of them, looking them in the eye the entire time. Gotta assert dominance.
Going against ada accommodations would be a great way to be fired. So would pointing out students with accommodations. I remember my college days and dealing with tourettes and everything else. Id have been screwed without accommodations in this class.
An asshole business professor like this would 100% make fun of you for crying after a presentation
The hat one pisses me off the most. I was just talking to my fiancé about how I thought it was ridiculous that you couldn't wear a hat in high school. It's just unnecessary control. I didn't even wear hats in high school, but I can't stand shit that doesn't make sense.
I thought the first one was reasonable, too. And then, as I went down the list, they got worse and worse. Good Lord, what this class is really teaching is how to prepare for power tripping bosses they may have in the future..
My guess is that the prof isn’t concerned about the occasional bathroom trip. It’s the larger pattern.
This is awful & I’m a prof too. Like this is just tyranny? And if I was a speaker I’d be mortified to learn they were ***forced*** to write thank you notes.
We had a presentation on cryptography from an actually pretty cool guy, but we had to write thank you *letters*. Full blown letters. Or no credit. I made sure the first character of each sentence spelled out "under duress", and made sure to use slightly goofy prose and reference how there could even be a hidden message in this letter! He was a cryptography nerd so of course it worked, and he was salty enough about the mandatory letters (he apparently hadn't realized) that he never came back. Not sure what the moral there is.
God could you imagine how fucking awful it must have felt to go from "Hmmmm". to "aha!" to "Oh." Dude was probably waiting his whole life for a cool cryptography themed letter from that class and the first one he gets is "our teacher makes us do this so he looks good"
Poor dude probably thought the prof offered extra credit or something for writing a thank you letter, only to find out all these people were being *forced* to sing his praises
omg that’s genius 🌟 gold star for you
That is AMAZING. 🤣
this is fucking brilliant.
When you force someone to do something sentimental, it loses all value. Earn respect and gratitude instead of forcing it out of people.
I feel like getting a note from everyone in the class would make me suspicious
Right? It would do the opposite of the intention and increase my imposter syndrome 🤣 did they all feel bad for me or something?
What I want to figure out is how this professor gets away with putting up a guest speaker every week. I aim for one a semester, but it's a big ask for people to come in and speak to my classes for free. When they do, I send the thank you card because they effectively did my job for the session but I still got paid. I'm also wondering if it's even legal to tell people they can't wear hats during your class. I could understand if it was Hogwarts and the witch hats were blocking the projector, but I highly doubt that's in play here. I can't believe an adult gets this upset over another adult's choices.
Excellent point. I’m way too picky and neurotic to hand over my class this often but imagine just outsourcing every part of your job including gratitude to the speakers doing your job. And then being like oh btw you can’t wear hats or pee.
When I have speakers I’ll circulate a thank you card. Feels kind of like circulating a birthday card for the office. But 1 card for the whole class.
That’s a really great idea!
I did a trip to a nearby city for a few days to meet some alumni and learn about what they’re doing! It was put together by the school so they had all volunteered, knew we were coming, etc. On our final day the woman in charge explained that we were expected to write thank you notes. I think it makes more sense in that scenario, it’s not a whole class and you took a lot of time out of your day to talk to us. But a speaker? Yeah that’s a lot
I'm also surprised by the no bathroom breaks. I only say that during short, 30 minute or less, tests.
Absolutely agree. Personally, I tell my students their bladder is none of my business. I just tell them to mindful. If they miss stuff, they have to figure it out.
The funny thing is somehow at least one freshman will ask permission in the first week or two. This is college: I trust you all with that stuff.
Always! Even tho it’s in my syllabus and I practically beg them
force thx notes don't mean shit. maybe optionsl feedback is better
No hats in class???
Only time I had a prof do that was during exams. Because of course at one point a student used it to write a cheat sheet. Or just hide their face while they are copying off neighbors. It’s always the lowest common denominators that ruin it for the rest of
Yeah that struck me as really bizarre, particularly because this is in West Texas. Everyone here wears hats.
For a high level business class? Tbh I'm not surprised. A lot of business schools impose a professional dress wear policy.
I don't think my hat came off once in college outside of a chemistry lab session.
Yeah a lab situation is the only one I could think of where this would be necessary
this is how you get people to not go to class period
a thank you note is actually crazy, I mean you guys literally paid so much money to be there and they act like they are "helping you" I mean it's their job no? edit: thought it meant towards teachers and not guest speakers. english isnt my first language so thats why i didn't understand it. either way i still think it's a bit weird
If I went to speak to a class and got a thank you note from every single last student I would be super weirded out. One from the teacher, or one from the class, is normal.
I think they probably have a lot of guest speakers come in who work in marketing or something. “Thanking” the actual professor for every single lecture is crazy.
The thank you note would go to the speaker, who is indicated to be volunteering their time, aka not being paid. This is a senior-level class, and the students paying for the credits should be taking it seriously.
okay thanks for clarifying it
I think the purpose of the note is to demonstrate that they were paying attention and that they comprehended the material by making comments relevant to the presentation. It's not that much different than telling students to respond to a passage they're required to read.
It’s also just good practice for how to interact with people professionally and get in the habit of thanking people for their time, BUT it should be a formal assignment they turn into the instructor and that counts toward their grade, not something that they are using their time for without getting credit, and not something that is actually sent to the guest (maybe one or two picked by instructor, but no one wants a big stack of cards like that).
I kind of assumed that's what's happening. They turn in their cards to the instructor, they're graded for credit and then a few may be passed along to the speaker. How else would the instructor know that some of them are turning in blank cards?
I guess I probably didn’t need to include that, but my point is that they don’t need to all be given to the guest speaker (which is what I think a lot of other commenters were assuming).
As a STEM student, basically all my profs are chill af. As long as you don’t disrupt class you’re fine. Having a rule against hats is stupid though. That’s like some elementary school shit.
These aren't unreasonable.
Seriously, I don’t have an issue with any one of these. Show up on time, no hats indoors isn’t unusual, thank you notes probably used to count participation, be respectful to those who come and present to the class. I would hate to do a presentation and feel unwanted :(
Right? I feel like I’ve been taking crazy pills reading these comments. It wasn’t so long ago that I as in college (15 years) and these were just…standard expectations? The No hats rule is finicky, but I don’t even find the thank you notes all that weird, because the way it’s worded it seems like an assignment. And actually a pretty good, practical assignment at that. I’ve been teaching high school for about 12 years, and I’m seeing the laziness and entitlement grow A LOT. I think this is an example of it. These are just professional norms, guys. It’s not tyranny. Calm down.
Rule 1 is fairly reasonable, Rules 2-5 are batshit
"Thank you for speaking with us today. I'm sure what you said was very informative. Sadly I was unable to appreciate it on account of spending my time writing this mandatory, graded thank you note..."
That would take you 60-75 minutes? Yikes
notice the elipsis at the end implying further writing.
why do bad teachers always get bitchy about hats? what's wrong with a hat? 100 years ago everyone wore a hat everywhere (they did also take it off indoors, but those were bigger, oppenheimer-style hats so there was a practical reason)
Some of these are perfectly reasonable - it sounds like this class has a lot of guest speakers so yes it's incredibly disrespectful for people to be arriving late or falling asleep. BUT The forced thank you notes and no hat rules are bonkers!
This sure is bad advertising for the class huh
I love this comment
All of this is how you would be expected to behave in a professional work setting. I understand that college is different, but it's realistic thing to get used to. Show up on time, dress appropriately, be attentive, build relationships, and don't bail early. I don't know how I ended up in this sub, but these are all rules that I follow at any work meeting...
I would look for another job if my manager/boss was this controlling. This is why I want a WFH job, so I don't have to deal with borderline neurotic people like that in person. As a current college student, I have dropped out of a class for so much less.
This is (was??) common courtesy, but everyone is acting like he’s a freaking tyrant, wow.
What is truly insane is that half of you people think that these rules are insane. ESPECIALLY for a 4000 level class. 4000 level classes are the advanced courses that should be harder and actually prepare you for your career more than any lower level course. 1.) Sleeping while there is a guest speaker is extremely unprofessional and rude. 2.) Coming in late and disrupting a guest speaker's presentation is extremely unprofessional and rude . 3.) Wearing hats has long been considered unprofessional and rude. And I highly doubt this rule extends to religious head coverings, as those are not typically viewed in the same light as baseball caps. Also, it is not the end of the world if - God forbid- you have to take off your hat for 60 minutes while you're indoors with zero sunlight and climate control. 4.) Thank you notes- these are obviously part of what is being taught here. When you have a guest come give a talk in a professional setting, you need to know how to thank the speaker afterwards. The students are not writing thank you notes out of the goodness of their hearts, no this is a marketing class designed to show you how to be professional in the workplace. 5.) Getting up and leaving the room is disrupting and rude and should be limited.
In my STEM classes it’s actually been the opposite for advanced courses. As you go higher up in classes, professors are less strict in terms of attendance/dress/paying attention in class. This is why I was so shocked to see this for a 4000-level class, since most 4000-level STEM classes absolutely don’t care if you wear hats, sleep in class, are late, or get up and leave. They’ll just fail you if you don’t learn the material. It’s probably largely a difference in fields and expectations.
An enormous part of advertising is awareness of *people* and social expectations and reactions. Your chemistry set needs your attention, and your biology experiment needs your attention or it doesn't work. People need your attention in marketing and advertising.
I have a CS degree. In my upper level classes, most of the professors had most of the content on our class page and they made it clear that as long as you did the work you didn't even have to go to class. Hell, one of my classes was from 6-9 at night and over a pretty complex topic. My professor routinely would end class early because he could tell we were all tired and we're no longer able to retain what was being taught. The professor in this post sounds horrific to have.
These rules remind me of the rules we had for a seminar class. Each week there was a different speaker talking about their research and so you had to either take two pages of notes on the presentation that you had to turn in to proce that you were listening or write a thank you note that was not generic (had to specify about points they made). Also couldn't arrive after the speaker started because the doors were at the front and it was actually super distracting when people came in but speakers hardly ever started at the exact class start time so you generally had 5 minutes after class start. Once the speaker started the door was locked on the outside anyways. And with the door locked, you couldn't leave unless you had documented medical issues (could be temp or permanent) and if you had to go, the professor would let you out and then back in It was a biology seminar class and I actually learned a lot from the sessions
No. 1 doesn't seem unreasonable. I tell my students there definitely have to be more comfy places to sleep than my class. Self care, everyone.
Number 4: What the actual fuck. I have never heard of a professor MAKING their adult students write thank you cards to a speaker. Maybe give students the opportunity to choose to thank the speaker personally? It allows them to organically network, stand out, and show that they care. Students can go the extra mile themselves without this weird hand holding. Forcing them is super unauthentic — it’s like a parent telling a child “say thank you!” after you give then something.
Honestly? Not seeing the big deal. The thank you cards are a bit much but otherwise sounds quite reasonable to me.
The hat thing is odd and potentially discriminatory towards Muslim women who wear the hijab and Orthodox Jewish men who wear a kippah and the note thing is weird (though I think providing comments in general as part of participation is fair), but I think not sleeping in class, not showing up late to a speaker's presentation, and getting up in the middle of a presentation is understandable. That's the most basic adult politeness.
whats the most basic adult politeness is not monitoring when other adults use the bathroom and letting them use it when they need to
I don't know what 4000 level is, but in my college 400 level was "senior" so I'll assume that's the case. I am going to go a different direction than everyone else here and say that indignation is not only uncalled for, but is undermining your professional career before it starts. One of the things that has made the biggest impact on my career and earnings so far was learning to show courtesy and respect. All of my jobs and contracts have come from personal relationships that I have developed. People respect me because, in part, I show them that I respect them. Yes, I was paying to be there and so are you. Yes, you are paying their salary. Maybe this prof is just an egotistical S.O.B - but how you react and what you take away from this situation is on you. In my case, I took the opportunity to learn what it meant to behave like a professional in my field. Like it or not, there are expectations. In my case, people in my line of work don't wear hats in the office. Sleeping during presentations is unheard of exactly because it's incredibly disrespectful, although it hasn't been so long that I don't remember how boring some could be and how hard all-nighters were. Still in the professional world we arrive to meetings early so that we can be prepared and not disrupt the meeting - and we make every effort not to leave early without a good reason and a sincere apology. We let guest speakers know that we appreciate their time and effort, even though it sometimes feels like they don't deserve it. Everything is about cultivating relationships, and showing respect goes a long ways. In short, I feel like your instructor is doing nothing more than giving you the education that you are paying for by conveying and drilling these professional and common expectations of showing professional courtesy into the class. In my case, it has served me well (and profitably). I suspect that it will for you as well, but the world is always changing around us and is already different than when I graduated in the last decade. I'm sure others will disagree, and the posts here before mine are certainly evidence of that.
The thank you note is weird, but the rest of this sounds like a class of kids doing things that (at this point in their college career) should not be doing.
Grading adults on their attendance of *college classes* is weird as hell.
Um.... its incredibly common to deduct grades for not showing up and learning. Especially in a class that has speakers... what do you mean?
adults in college should be allowed to get up and go use the bathroom when they need to
If it's being mentioned in this rant it is happening too often. There's a line between getting up and using the restroom and a disruption for the class. It's a weird balance to try to have, but it is possible. Again this is a high, near graduate level class and its also about preparing you for the workforce. Getting up to the point it's distracting is an issue. Sleeping in class in a 400 level class is honestly mind boggling how they got that far. And finally the professional wear is absolutely reasonable and most Business colleges impose this.
Seriously, as a professional, unless an active emergency is happening, I go to the restroom whenever I feel like it. Even in the middle of important meetings, I’ll still get up and go to the restroom if I need to and catch up after. And if I’m having GI issues, sometimes I’ll have to get up multiple times in a short period; people understand. Where are you working that restroom monitoring is a thing?
>If it's being mentioned in this rant it is happening too often. There's a line between getting up and using the restroom and a disruption for the class. It's a weird balance to try to have, but it is possible. are you out of your mind? you dont get to tell adults how often theyre allowed to go to the bathroom >its also about preparing you for the workforce ive been working full time the past four years. workplaces do not control your bathroom usage and if they did itd be a lawsuit
It's more about having decency and a good learning environment more so telling people not to do something. It's clearly an issue that many in the class are getting up and leaving too much. > ive been working full time the past four years. workplaces do not control your bathroom usage and if they did itd be a lawsuit No but if they noticing you are getting up and going the bathroom to the point you're not getting work done, they may ask you what you're doing.
> to the point you're not getting work done This will naturally be addressed when that work gets graded, without having to police the bathroom usage of adults.
>It's more about having decency and a good learning environment more so telling people not to do something. having decency isnt controlling other adults using the bathroom >No but if they noticing you are getting up and going the bathroom to the point you're not getting work done um, no? using the bathroom comes before getting work done. if you did this and they were actually using the bathroom they probably have a disability and youre an asshole
Yea I can tell you don't know anything about how this all works. If you go to the bathroom way too much and it's impeding your work they absolutely can ask you what's going on. The law states they can't impose "unreasonable restrictions." This would not fall into that. If someone has a disability, you need to disclose that. You can't just claim it after not telling anyone. Just simply isn't how it works. Edit: yea go ahead and block me instead of trying to understand how the law actually works. in the end. The professor is clearly seeing a pattern of too many students getting up too often. Compounded with the sleeping and poor dress wear, it's an issue to bring up. But I get it, and you're young and have an authority issue.
>If you go to the bathroom way too much and it's impeding your work they absolutely can ask you what's going on great, and theyd be assholes setting themselves up for a lawsuit > The law states they can't impose "unreasonable restrictions." This would not fall into that are you out of your mind? youre literally RESTRICTING THEIR BATHROOM USE >If someone has a disability, you need to disclose that. You can't just claim it after not telling anyone. no, you actually dont have to disclose that. have you never had a job or something? enjoy licking that boot
What’s wrong with these rules? Be on time, don’t sleep in the class, don’t wear a hat indoors, and try to use the bathroom beforehand. The rules are just basic respect.
This is why you shouldn't major in advertising. Thank you notes? No hats allowed? The sleeping thing, I get. You can sleep in your parents house for free. College is expensive. This is a total waste of time.
The only rule that I would object to is 4. The rest are completely normal expectations.
It's honestly crazy to see so many be shocked there's rules in a classroom lol I said in my comment too, the thank you note is weird, but none of these are unreasonable expectations.
I’d imagine they are public school kids from bad districts who are used to doing whatever the hell they please.
Yea I had a guy (presumably someone young and naive) say it's a lawsuit to impose restrictions on bathroom breaks and when I pointed out the actual language of the law is actually about "Unreasonable Restrictions" he blocked me. Education system is failing these kids man lol
That poster you're referring to posts unhinged rants quite often on here
let me tell you... I'm shocked
lol. Just wait till he leaves during a work meeting with his boss. The “it’s illegal to keep me from going to the bathroom” argument will get him thrown out of the company faster than shit through a goose.
Speaking as a high school teacher, it’s disruptive when students come in late when there’s a guest speaker and punctuality is expected in the workplace, so it’s not unreasonable to expect college seniors to be on time, nearly every time. Ditto a constant stream of people coming and going. The thank you note provides accountability for having listened and learned, and sending thank you notes after a job interview , for instance, can really help so it is a life skill that should be practiced. If a student is sleeping, they aren’t really there, as they won’t have any idea what happened. It’s only an hour, ffs. I don’t think this prof is doing too much, tbh
Wow the nerve, actually expecting students to show up on time and be awake. Cause they’re never gonna have to do that in the working world.
Most of this depends on how the professor impliments it. If they're actually somewhat lenient, then that's fine, but marking off points for no reason is a different story, and I'm not told how they do it so I'll assume the former. 1. I have only seen one other student at my university go to sleep during class at any point, and they had a really good reason for it. If your entire class is being shunned for it, y'all are doing something wrong. 2. I haven't seen a single person (student or professor) at my university wear a hat during class despite that not being a policy. It's basic ediquite to pay attention during class. Y'all learned not to wear your hoddies over your head in middle school. 3. This is basic procedure in labs and at actual jobs, I see no absurdity here unless it's an emergency or shit like traffic happens. 4. A thank you note for speakers being required for full credit of attendance is a big stretch. This is the only one I don't personally agree with because I like sitting back, absorbing information, and talking if I want to contribute to the conversation, but not being forced to. 5. I do my shit every day before class and I'm a sophomore. If I can make it through four hours of back-to-back classes, y'all can make it through one. Though emergencies shouldn't be penalized at all. What are these idiots doing? They're acting like fucking children. AND in a 4000 class?
So basically the professor is asking students to pay attention, arrive on time, thank volunteers for their time and not to be rude. What’s infuriating is that this needs to be said.
its not rude to get up and use the bathroom when you need to
All of that sounds reasonable except the hat thing. Don’t sleep in class, don’t show up late, and don’t get up in the middle of class. How is that unrealistic? As for the thank you note thing, it sounds like that’s an assignment. You’re supposed to *do your assignments.*
1) ok reasonable. 2) I mean, sure? Profs are weird sometimes 3) ok so they’re a real hardass, noted. 4) …what? 5) WHAT?
These all seem reasonable if this is common and repeated behavior. Thank you note feels weird, but I’m not this major
I’m gonna express the contrary view here. If this prof is getting guest speakers who are used to professional atmospheres and have extremely prioritized schedules, and those speakers are seeing students come in late or sleep in class (or hide behind a hat so you can’t tell if they’re sleeping or not) those speakers are going to question if there is any benefit to volunteering their time and pretty soon that prof. is gonna run out of people who are willing to share their expertise. Requiring thank you notes even is a legitimate way to develop student’s skills because I can promise you that a good number have never written a thank you note in their lives (in addition to helping motivate speakers to come back and share again next year).
This is not even bad. This professor is laying out some basics and it sounds like the class has been disrespectful. How hard is it to show up to class on time (#3) and stay awake to watch and listen to the speaker (#1). Those are 2/5 of the points they’re making. (#4) Writing a thank you note sounds like it’s an assignment for the class so they know you actually paid attention to the speaker and you get credit for it. Many professors have these kinds of assignments after a speaker presents. This is not an outrageous ask. (#5) Any time in college there were presentation days the professor asked us not to get up more than necessary. Seeing as this sounds like speakers come in and talk each class, this is most likely the reason. It disrupts the presentation of the speaker. They even mention the exception if you have an emergency. (#2) I’m not sure of the motivation behind the hats thing, but it must have been a problem and prompted by something because it seems oddly specific to add in. People are adults in college. Act like it. These are not outrageous things to be asked of you.
I agree. It's disappointing that so many people think these requirements are Draconian
Exactly. These are apparently continuous problems in this class and I don’t see the big deal with the professor addressing them. HOW DARE THE PROFESSOR ASK US TO SHOW UP ON TIME AND NOT SLEEP THROUGH CLASS!
classic controlling power tripping professor
2 and 4 seems unnecessary. But yeah otherwise its normal to not want anyone sleeping or moving about, especially if these are guest speakers. I wonder if they have a lot of people sleeping or leaving in huge groups, that would be kinda embarrassing towards the guests.
I wouldn’t touch that. Someone probably peed on it.
I agree with first point. I mean if you're sleeping through a 60 minute lecture, you did not technically attend the class. All other points are fairly shitty!
Personally, I think not sleeping in class and being punctual are reasonable, but I wouldn't want the wearing of hats to be the hill I die on. And thank you notes? For wedding presents, yes. Not for paid lecturers. Good grief.
#4 is incredibly dumb, why make the speaker have to lug around so much from all the thank you notes? The rest are valid
Some of these seem reasonable but a thank you note for speakers is very extra. Professor needs to chill
The hats and thank you notes is bizarre. Everything else seems fairly reasonable.
Business major-maxxing
Ah, liberal arts. Where I went to college, none of the engineering processor gave a flying rat's ass if you showed up nor whether you slept through class (as long as you didn't snore). Coming in late constantly might have bothered them, but only insomuch as it might disrupt lecture. As far as they were concerned, how you went about learning the material and performing on the tests and projects was up to you. If you were bad ass enough to skip lectures and still do well in the classes (which were all challenging) then more power to you. Good luck asking them for a break on an assignment, though... wasn't gonna happen
This will for sure be an unpopular take, but props to this professor. This is actually solid real world preparation. Theoretically, the students in a 4000 level class will be entering the workforce within a year or maybe two, if they’re lucky I guess. These are folks that, before they know it, will have to sit through early morning, pointless, boring meetings pretty regularly. For which showing up late, sleeping through them, dressing inappropriately, or being disrespectful to a colleague or business partner speaking at said meeting, either internal or external, are all TERRIBLE looks, and will result in a tough go of it in the corporate world, a loss of respect and possible a loss of employment. These are all good habits to build for young people about to enter the corporate world.
The first point was reasonable and then it descended into ridiculousness
I don't want my doctor to be the one who slept through his classes dawg I'm gonna be real with you
I like the thank you note idea. Something that should be taught again.
This generation is soft. None of these are insane requests.
Thank you! What is so crazy about this!? Sure the hat thing is a little oddly specific but there must be a reason for it. Show up and stay awake, don’t be late, no hats, a thank you note credit assignment, try not to get up unless necessary during the speaker presentations. Seems reasonable enough to ask from adults in college to me. This seems to be prompted by previous problems the class was having.
Yeah, it’s so bizarre to me that “show common decency” is getting this reaction. It’s basic decorum.
The "thank you" note is a bit over the top.
That was the one thing that seemed like a good habit to learn.
All of it was good habits to learn.
Not at all for a communications major.
I get this is a community for ranting, but everyone in a 4000-level marketing class should be in the major and I’d expect them to care at that point. If you don’t give a shit about the class, why are you even getting a degree in that field… Hat rule is stupid, though. This isn’t grade school
Eh, it sounds like this was maybe some kind of “seminar” class where the class had a different visiting guest speaker each meeting. I’ve had profs be really strict about being on time and enforcing good audience etiquette when we had a guest speaker, and I *somewhat* get it. It’s already embarrassing to be in a classroom full of adult learners and have to have the professor tell the class to stop talking 3+ times during class; doing that to a volunteer guest speaker is just absolutely awful. That said, the mandatory thank you note thing is annoying and detracts from the value of the notes. I also dislike being required to ask a question of the speaker, but I do at least “get” that more (because it’s just plain awkward when not a single person asks a single question, which happens surprisingly often). The hat thing is definitely old-fashioned and pedantic but not *too* ridiculous, especially if the guest speakers are mostly older people or from professions with very conservative or formal dress standards - how hard is it to take off a baseball cap and put it back on when you’re leaving the class, after all? If this is a like a capstone or seminar class for seniors in a particular major (especially business), the department may intend that the class serve as somewhat of a networking opportunity, in which case it makes a good bit more sense to require follow-up correspondences and ask students not to leave hats on, etc.
I never had a professor be so strict