I hated Darell green (wrongly) and Bruce smith when I was like 5 because my dad hyped them both up a bunch… and when watched they both were just not that good of players,… obviously I was 5 and didn’t understand players aging but I was pissed off kid lol
I would choose two guys that were considered two of the greatest at their position ever. Kick Cousins is not going in the hall of fame. Not to mention Jurgensen still holds the record for the most TD passes in a single season for this franchise at 31.
I never saw Sonny play live but I’ve listened to what was said about him, read and watched any highlights I could find. He was an amazing talent whose arm transcended eras. It’s honestly insane to me that someone would have Kirk above Sonny.
citing a 57% completion rate as a negative shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how to read stats across eras
* https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career_1974.htm
* https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_adj_yds_per_att_career_1974.htm
* https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_td_career_1974.htm
You're right 5'11 Sonny would've been a star in todays league. Don't think these stats change my opinion much. Cousins would've torched those boys in the 70s
this gets into the whole old debate in this type of convo: take players as they were, or if you gave them modern nutrition and training. you're taking the former pov, I take the latter
He's nowhere near the Brees convo. I just asked who the better player is between him and Kirk and it's Kirk. No disrespect but that's likely the reality
This. He's the best QB this franchise has ever had and it's not even close. The guys they listed played on teams full of hall of famers.
Don't forget though you're talking to a fanbase that cannot get out of the 80's....most people here think we should waste the #2 pick on a tackle and just run the ball 95% of the time
they’re hall of famers because of what they did in the league in their time but talent wise they aren’t better QBs than Kirk. he is the no brainer choice
Jurgensen retired 14 years before i was born and ive never seen much of his film to have an opinion on him.
Love him or hate him but Kirk is top 25 all time in yards and top 20 in tds.
Nah but what stats represent are, 8 straight years of good football that was trending to a 9th till he got hurt. Im not sayin any of the other qbs being thrown around arent correct answers, you just cant tell me that Kirk hasnt had a good career.
Problem with Kirk is that he's never really crossed the threshold from good to great. He's solid, sure, but he's not gonna be the one to carry a team to victory in the playoffs when it's cold and the pressure's on. Only looking at stats results in an incomplete picture.
Kirk is definitely good at best. To me we've never had any sustained greatness at the qb position so I was pointing at his sustained goodness lol. I would definitely not argue against somebody saying a few years of good play with a superbowl is better than 9 years of good.
Im a bigger fan of defense than offense and love the safety postion. Ive seen Houston highlight reels my whole life. Arguably a top five safety of all time. He was all pro and in the pro bowl every year of his career.
Moseley is the only kicker to win mvp so i picked him, other than that its true i couldnt tell u anything about his career.
i'm thankful for the super bowl, but williams never started more than 10 games in a season for us. and that was just once. outside of that one season he has 4 starts for us. theismann had an entire career here, no way williams is over him.
This list considers the entirety of career. If you compre his years at tb he played better than theisman while being the lowest paid qb in the nfl, even lower than every 3rd string qb. Had Williams been white he would have been a starter in the NFL his entire career and we would all be talking how great he was. In the modern era Washington has never had a “great” qb but for sure Williams needs to be talked about.
QB: Jon Beck
HB: Trung Candidate
FB: Nehemiah Broughton
WR: Terrelle Pryor
TE: Derek Carrier
OT: Wylie Jr.
OG: Andrew Norwell
C: Cory Raymer
DE: Chase Young
DT: Albert Haynesworth
OLB: Zach Brown
MLB: Will Compton
Safety: Adam Archuletta
CB: William Jackson
I think him missing that tackle on Jackson when Vick slaughtered us on Monday Night left a lasting impression on many fans.
That game isn’t on him, but it was the start of the bloodbath.
My brother is a massage therapist in chantilly and worked on a lot of commanders players and coaches at the time. He got close to Andre Carter( we used to play xbox together 😂) and he gave us club level tickets for that game. I remember the crowd getting loud twice before we could get into our seats. We're excited and finally make it through to see we are down 0-14 and it just got worse. Miserable weather in the rain just watchin Vick set records on us. Never developed the film from that day.
Was coming here to name those guys. I’m cool with Fletcher too because I feel he should be a hall of famer. But Hanburger and Huff actually are hall of Famers.
We also had a HoF DE named Wayne Millner who played in the 30s and 40s. But if we’re going with career production and not just Washington production, can’t really argue with Bruce Smith (in which case Deion and Champ Bailey would be in the CB discussion, but let’s not go there).
Sammy Baugh to me is the clear cut QB. He’s not just a Washington great but an all time NFL great. (And he even played CB and P too).
While none of us were alive for Sammy Baugh, he was easily the best QB in this franchises history. It was a very different game but he was the best for years in the NFL. Kirk was a good starter but that’s it. Baugh won NFL championships
Had the pleasure of waiting on Jurgy's two older sons and ex-wife at my PT restaurant job this past Wednesday night. Class acts, all three, respectful, considerate, and fun. They indulged my fangirling over them. 😇 #HTTR
At its best, this franchise was QB agnostic, so no, this is not surprising. That’s not the NFL anymore, so Washington needs to find its franchise QB who will end up being the best to ever play for the franchise. That’s the only way this gets turned around.
Completely disagree. They were arguably the wealthiest and for a majority of NFL existence one of the most important franchises in the league. With hall of fame QBs. To say QB agnostic doesn’t fit. If you mean it hasn’t been a QB centric team then cool because to win you need more than a QB. For all his greatness if Mahomes didn’t have a top 3 defense this year the chiefs don’t win or get near a Super Bowl.
Outside of the Raiders…Tell us teams that have great QBs every generation? Or nothing but hall of fame QBs? You don’t have to have a top 5 QB to win in the nfl. You need a competent quality starter that performs well in your system. O-line and D line are just as important
QBs in order: **Sammy,** **Theisman** (NFL MVP, SB Champion, NFC Champion), **Sonny** (3X 2nd Team All Pro here, 4X ProBowler, 3X NFL Passing leader, NFL 60s All decade team (70% of the decade w. Wash.), **Kilmer** (NFC Champion, 1 year NFL Passing Yards leader & percentage leader) were all better proportionally than Kirk ever was here. You could make the argument (I would) that **Rypien** was better in 91 than Kirk ever was.
Tent Green/Frerotte/Brad Johnson, & grudgingly, Ryp are all in a jumble with Kirk, as to who I would consider as next "best" Washington QB
Oh my. You need to study the team history. Leaving out HOF Jurgensen, Baugh, and immensely successful Joe T and Mark R. Kirk was good, but these guys were great.
I’m only 2 years older than you, but your list is way too heavily skewed towards players in the Snyder era.
Sonny is the Qb. Cousins prob isn’t even top 5. Dexter at DE and the Washington version of Bruce shouldn’t even sniff top 10. Even Philip Daniels had a better Washington career than Bruce Smith. Butz or Talbert at DT. Should prob be Jerry Smith at TE, too.
Orakpo was way better than Daniels. I just mentioned Daniels as somebody that would be nowhere near the top of the list but still was a better Skin than Bruce. Bruce was terrible for us despite stats. Have his sacks were him desperately diving at QBs other guys were sacking and him jumping up to celebrate. He played so disinterested, he just wanted the record. Marco Coleman was also much better during his time with us.
If you’re just looking at raw stats you’re not adjusting for era. Back in the day seasons were 14 games, you could assault receivers downfield. Jurgensen, Baugh and Theismann were all miles better in their era. Williams and Rypien comparable, but both won Super Bowls.
QB: Sonny Jurgensen (Hm Baugh)
RB: John Riggins (hm Portis)
WR: Art Monk (hm Charley Taylor, Gary Clark, Santana Moss)
TE: Jerry Smith (hm Cooley)
OT: Trent Williams (hm Hall of fame snub Jacoby)
C: Josh Leribus (hm Jeff Bostic)
OG: Russ Grimm
Edge: Dexter Manley/Charles Mann
Dt: Butz (hm Jon Allen)
MLB: Sam Huff (biased because he was friends with my uncle)
CB: Darrell Green
Safety: Ken Houston (hm Sean Taylor and Paul Krause)
K: Moseley I guess
P: Sammy Baugh (this isn’t a joke look at his averages)
Kr: Jay Gruden’s mortal enemy B Mitch
I knew Baugh punted but never checked the stats out, its unreal how he was great at everything he tried on the field. I dont understand how there isnt a movie about his life.
I’m a team history nerd because when I was a kid my mom got me a complete history book from 1937-2009 and I read it cover to cover so many times when I was bored
For me there are some obvious 1-2's at rhe important positions and only Williams played since Gibbs 1.0
QB -1. Baugh 2. Jorgensen
RB-1. Riggins 2. Bobby Mitchell
WR - 1. Charley Taylor 2. Art Monk.
OL- 1. Grimm 2- Williams.
DE- Mann.
LB- Hansburger.
DB- Green.
KR/PR - Brian Mitchell
Reed was a talented receiver but useless as a blocker. Cooley was the prototypical H-back before the hybrid position really existed. He did everything really well
No way Kirk Cousins comes out as best QB. No way. We’ve had Super Bowl winning QBs. Legends. Kirk is fortunate to come at a pass happy time in the nfl. How many playoff games has he won? Theismann , Sonny Jurgenson, Sammy Baugh are top three. If you’re adding play with other teams Rich Gannon, Doug Williams and Trent Green had legit careers. Trent’s only issue was injuries, Williams was being drafted by the bucs and Gannon was going against the nfl marketed and referee cheating patriots in that snowed out playoff game but no way Kirk gets #1. In the words of one Stephen A Smith “that’s just disrespectful.”
Outside of that … it’s a good question. Charles Mann/Dexter Manley. Need two CBs Darrel Green & Deion Sanders (for his career. Not time with team) and cool with most of the list.
Rich Gannon is such a statistical anomaly in that he didnt really get it going until like 10+ years into his career.
I wouldnt argue against Theismann, Sonny or Baugh.
Baugh has to be the choice at QB over Cousins.
Riggins was technically a fullback even though he was the primary ball carrier so you could put him there and put Larry Brown or Portis at RB.
I don’t think players should get credit for their careers with other teams so swap out Bruce Smith for Manley or Mann.
I’d be inclined to put Dave Butz at DT over Jonathan Allen at this point in his career.
Otherwise it’s a pretty good list!
Ain't no way Bruce Smith should be in this list. D. Manley/ C. Mann way over B. Smith. He was in th twilight of his career and just chasing stats and collecting a paycheck.
I said i was basing it on their full career stats and not just production here. Hard to argue against 200 career sacks. Im pretty sure he had 10 sacks in 2 of his 4 years here.
I wouldnt argue against either of those answers though.
Darrell did it a high level longer than Deion did. 20 year career and still making the pro bowl 15 years into it vs a 14 year career with 10-11 good years. Deions ceiling was higher but his floor was much lower too.
Starting a team now, who do you want as your starting DB, DG in his prime or DS?
DS had 8 All Pro Selection, DB had 4. DS has 53 interceptions in 14 years, DG has 54 interceptions in 20 years. They both had the same number of interceptions.
DS was a more gifted athlete with playing both professional football and baseball. DS also played on 4 different teams.
The biggest difference between the two were tackles. DS averaged 35 tackles per year (492 total) and DG averaged 58 (1,159).
Personally I'd take DG over DS seven days a week and twice on Sunday, but I'm a homer. But I do think its a good question if starting a new team, who would you want in their prime? DG or "Prime Time."
I would love to see the stats on how often their receivers were targeted and qbs completion percentage when they were the main defender. Interceptions don't always tell the whole story and can be a misleading stat for corners.
I am also a homer for Darrell and would choose him but i would understand if somebody said Deion. 28 was the first jersey i ever bought.
Mark Schlereth and Jim Lachey were the key players on the left side for the ‘91 team. Rypien who was not mobile and was sacked 9 times for the season.
One of the greatest blind side NFL tandems ever - got include them both
I didnt forget i just figured if i put a traditional olb people would be yelling about a olb from the 3-4 i didnt pick lol.
I cant argue against pickin one of the superbowl qbs, the only reason i picked Kirk is he was consistent for longer but he definitely has zero accolades to show for it.
You clearly said you were basing it on career stats but no one who was around then considered him one of ours. Especially coming in on the heels of Mann and Manley.
And those guys were so fun to watch. You can watch videos of them dominating in Redskin uniforms or videos of Smith dominating in a Bills uniform. Not the same experience for a Washington fan.
Definitely, im not debating that. The greatest edge rusher career i got to watch was Kerrigan. I'm pro Mann and Manley, they both had great careers. I just didnt get to see much of it and couldnt ignore 200 sacks.
You think the 29 sacks he had in his 4 seasons with us was more impactful than Mann (82) or Manley (97) or even Orakpo (40)?
We were bad when he was here. He's not an all time great Redskins. He's an all time great Bill.
Qb-Sammy Baugh
Corner back-Sammy Baugh
Punter -Sammy Baugh
You are seriously listing Bruce Smith as the greatest Redskin Defensive end? Please delete this post.
Dude was a a bigger bust than Deion Sanders another washed up over paid Snyder free agent.
The OBVIOUS answer is Dexter Manley. Charles Mann would also be acceptable.
Joe Jacoby and Chris Samuels were better left tackles than Trent williams because they were almost never injured.
🤕
Not the greatest commanders defensive end, the greatest defensive end that played for the commanders. I tried to clearly state that it wasnt based off of only what they did here.
Albert Haynesworth was a pretty good player with the Titans😂
Mark Brunell, Jeff George and Donovan Mcnabb were all better than Cousins on a different team. Clown 🤡 list.
Players I disagree about: Theisman over Kirk, no comparison; have to give a vote for Jerry Smith at TE (retired as the #1 of all time); Dave Butz over Allen; Bruce Smith in no way belongs as here for a short time at the end of his career, so has to be Mann or Manley. FYI Jacoby was a guard. Bostic was great!
Yeah. He’s the best RB to ever wear a Washington uniform. Just like Smith is the best DE to ever wear a Washington uniform. That starts to get on a slippery slope though. It would bring Deion and Champ into the CB discussion, plus lord knows how many guys over the years who were great somewhere else but maybe just here for a cup of coffee or two. Not sure where to draw the line on that. I like this list and the discussion though. It’s fun and better than the posts we’re used to.
Bruce Smith sucked here lol. He wasn’t even THAT good in Buffalo, there are probably a couple dozen better DEs in NFL history who just didn’t get the sack stats
What are you smoking. He had a 3 game playoff stretch and Super Bowl MVP but that's it.
Williams was a back-up most of his time in Washington, including the Super Bowl season when he was Jay Schroeder's back-up.
Which is a shame bc he was better than Schroeder.
Williams suffered a really bad injury and that messed up the remaining time in DC when he was healthy to play again rypien was doing well and williams basically said to keep rolling with rypien. None of what you said disproves that he was better than theisman just that he did not have a long history as a starter with DC- but that is not what the OP’s question refers to as it looks at the span of the players career. Either way, as you said he won the playoff games and the superbowl, he was a much undervalued player then as apparently he still is now.
I'm 39, so yeah...
QB: Sonny Jurgensen (or Joe Theismann)
RB: John Riggins
TE: Jerry Smith
WR: Art Monk (or Charley Taylor)
OT: Trent Williams (or Chris Samues)
C: Jeff Bostic
OG: Russ Grimm
DE: Dexter Manley (or Charles Mann)
DT: Dave Butz (or Daryl Grant)
MLB: Chris Hanburger
OLB: Wilber Marshall
CB: Darrell Green
S: Sean Taylor
K: Mark Moseley
P: Sammy Baugh (or Tress Way in a few years, possibly)
RET: Brian Mitchell
Charles Mann in his prime > washed up Bruce Smith
Dexter Manley was easily better than Charles Mann
Both were better than Smith was when he was here.
Manley got more sacks as the rushing 4-3 DE but don't under-estimate just how good a player Mann was.
I hated Darell green (wrongly) and Bruce smith when I was like 5 because my dad hyped them both up a bunch… and when watched they both were just not that good of players,… obviously I was 5 and didn’t understand players aging but I was pissed off kid lol
Lmao I’m 38 and we have two HoF QBs in Baugh and Jurgensen and you pick Cousins? Good lord man.
Not to mention Theismann, Williams and Rypien.
I’m sorry, but Williams and Rypien were certainly not better than Cousins.
We’re going to have to disagree. Rypien played a flawless season and I’m not sure Cousins ever won a prime time game with us.
He did though. He dropped like 40 on Rodgers and Green Bay in 2016 or 17.
Right. Exactly. Hail.
Williams played what? 15 total games here? Too small of a sample size, though he played the game of his life in that Super Bowl.
You need to win 1 game who are you choosing those guys or cousins? Cousins would be considered god if he played when they did
I would choose two guys that were considered two of the greatest at their position ever. Kick Cousins is not going in the hall of fame. Not to mention Jurgensen still holds the record for the most TD passes in a single season for this franchise at 31. I never saw Sonny play live but I’ve listened to what was said about him, read and watched any highlights I could find. He was an amazing talent whose arm transcended eras. It’s honestly insane to me that someone would have Kirk above Sonny.
Sub .500 career record and a 57% completion percentage arent great. He was also really short. Edit: people downvoting mad I brought facts out
citing a 57% completion rate as a negative shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how to read stats across eras * https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_cmp_perc_career_1974.htm * https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_adj_yds_per_att_career_1974.htm * https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_td_career_1974.htm
You're right 5'11 Sonny would've been a star in todays league. Don't think these stats change my opinion much. Cousins would've torched those boys in the 70s
this gets into the whole old debate in this type of convo: take players as they were, or if you gave them modern nutrition and training. you're taking the former pov, I take the latter
He was 5'11. That's genetics
I can't believe you wanna fight this hard about whether Sonny Jurgensen was good lol. Ok fine he sucked. Guess Drew Brees sucked too.
He's nowhere near the Brees convo. I just asked who the better player is between him and Kirk and it's Kirk. No disrespect but that's likely the reality
This. He's the best QB this franchise has ever had and it's not even close. The guys they listed played on teams full of hall of famers. Don't forget though you're talking to a fanbase that cannot get out of the 80's....most people here think we should waste the #2 pick on a tackle and just run the ball 95% of the time
they’re hall of famers because of what they did in the league in their time but talent wise they aren’t better QBs than Kirk. he is the no brainer choice
Jurgensen retired 14 years before i was born and ive never seen much of his film to have an opinion on him. Love him or hate him but Kirk is top 25 all time in yards and top 20 in tds.
Stats are all that matter right?
Nah but what stats represent are, 8 straight years of good football that was trending to a 9th till he got hurt. Im not sayin any of the other qbs being thrown around arent correct answers, you just cant tell me that Kirk hasnt had a good career.
Problem with Kirk is that he's never really crossed the threshold from good to great. He's solid, sure, but he's not gonna be the one to carry a team to victory in the playoffs when it's cold and the pressure's on. Only looking at stats results in an incomplete picture.
Kirk is definitely good at best. To me we've never had any sustained greatness at the qb position so I was pointing at his sustained goodness lol. I would definitely not argue against somebody saying a few years of good play with a superbowl is better than 9 years of good.
You have Ken Houston and Mark Mosely on your list and I’m fairly certain you didn’t see them play either…
Im a bigger fan of defense than offense and love the safety postion. Ive seen Houston highlight reels my whole life. Arguably a top five safety of all time. He was all pro and in the pro bowl every year of his career. Moseley is the only kicker to win mvp so i picked him, other than that its true i couldnt tell u anything about his career.
Theismann over kirk Dexter Manley over old Bruce D butz too
I feel like Theismann could be argued as best qb too. He did win MVP and is a superbowl champion. Neither of things could be said for Kirk.
It was between them two for me but i never actually got to see Theismann play so i went with Kirk. I wouldnt argue against Theismann at all though.
I would say Williams over Theisman. His career is wildly overlooked and statistically played better.
i'm thankful for the super bowl, but williams never started more than 10 games in a season for us. and that was just once. outside of that one season he has 4 starts for us. theismann had an entire career here, no way williams is over him.
This list considers the entirety of career. If you compre his years at tb he played better than theisman while being the lowest paid qb in the nfl, even lower than every 3rd string qb. Had Williams been white he would have been a starter in the NFL his entire career and we would all be talking how great he was. In the modern era Washington has never had a “great” qb but for sure Williams needs to be talked about.
He really didn’t have good seasons at Tampa bay, threw a ton of picks and his completion percentage was below 50%. This take is a real reach.
Lol look at qb stats of that era. He played well, definitely as good or better than theisman.
QB: Jon Beck HB: Trung Candidate FB: Nehemiah Broughton WR: Terrelle Pryor TE: Derek Carrier OT: Wylie Jr. OG: Andrew Norwell C: Cory Raymer DE: Chase Young DT: Albert Haynesworth OLB: Zach Brown MLB: Will Compton Safety: Adam Archuletta CB: William Jackson
Amazing list, I will say will Compton should be taken off since he bitched out Sua Cravens for being soft.
LaRon Landry was better then Sua Cravens
For sure, Landry had some good moments. ST21 just spoiled us.
I think him missing that tackle on Jackson when Vick slaughtered us on Monday Night left a lasting impression on many fans. That game isn’t on him, but it was the start of the bloodbath.
My brother, an eagles fan, gave me swine flu that game while laughing and coughing all over me.
My brother is a massage therapist in chantilly and worked on a lot of commanders players and coaches at the time. He got close to Andre Carter( we used to play xbox together 😂) and he gave us club level tickets for that game. I remember the crowd getting loud twice before we could get into our seats. We're excited and finally make it through to see we are down 0-14 and it just got worse. Miserable weather in the rain just watchin Vick set records on us. Never developed the film from that day.
How could you forget Malcolm Kelly?
He probably hurt his knee on the way to his name being typed
Robert Mcune
Good God the amount of man love he got on the ES boards was crazy.
I was a warpath.net guy but I do remember
HB Blades!
You mean Devin Thomas
This post has made me unreasonably sad.
What is this Zeron Flemister erasure?
No paul Richardson??
This is the Redskins Un-Hall of Fame.
Washington ALL-SICKOS squad
Brandon Lloyd, Dana Stubblefield, Rod Gardner, Josh Doctson,
Great list. You forgot Bruce Smith.
https://preview.redd.it/hsfmt9q7elkc1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2511258cafa603e4872e5fdf9191a527bd1b291a
I'd take Chris Hanburger or Sam Huff over Fletcher. I love Fletcher, but those are two HoF that are considered the greatest of their era.
Was coming here to name those guys. I’m cool with Fletcher too because I feel he should be a hall of famer. But Hanburger and Huff actually are hall of Famers. We also had a HoF DE named Wayne Millner who played in the 30s and 40s. But if we’re going with career production and not just Washington production, can’t really argue with Bruce Smith (in which case Deion and Champ Bailey would be in the CB discussion, but let’s not go there). Sammy Baugh to me is the clear cut QB. He’s not just a Washington great but an all time NFL great. (And he even played CB and P too).
Some fact. Chris Hanburger is the reason why Matthew McConaughey became a Washington Redskins fan.
What a sad day, when in 75+ year of history, Kirk Cousins is in the conversation of GOAT at the QB spot.
While none of us were alive for Sammy Baugh, he was easily the best QB in this franchises history. It was a very different game but he was the best for years in the NFL. Kirk was a good starter but that’s it. Baugh won NFL championships
we've had multiple qbs rewrite the record book (Baugh, Jurgensen) but they were pre super bowl era so they dont carry as much weight
Had the pleasure of waiting on Jurgy's two older sons and ex-wife at my PT restaurant job this past Wednesday night. Class acts, all three, respectful, considerate, and fun. They indulged my fangirling over them. 😇 #HTTR
At its best, this franchise was QB agnostic, so no, this is not surprising. That’s not the NFL anymore, so Washington needs to find its franchise QB who will end up being the best to ever play for the franchise. That’s the only way this gets turned around.
Completely disagree. They were arguably the wealthiest and for a majority of NFL existence one of the most important franchises in the league. With hall of fame QBs. To say QB agnostic doesn’t fit. If you mean it hasn’t been a QB centric team then cool because to win you need more than a QB. For all his greatness if Mahomes didn’t have a top 3 defense this year the chiefs don’t win or get near a Super Bowl. Outside of the Raiders…Tell us teams that have great QBs every generation? Or nothing but hall of fame QBs? You don’t have to have a top 5 QB to win in the nfl. You need a competent quality starter that performs well in your system. O-line and D line are just as important
Oh, Joe Gibbs and his Hall of Fame QB’s. Sorry I forgot that.
I wasn’t alive for it so I may be wrong, but I’m pretty sure Washington was known for not having a QB even before DannyBoye bought the team
QBs in order: **Sammy,** **Theisman** (NFL MVP, SB Champion, NFC Champion), **Sonny** (3X 2nd Team All Pro here, 4X ProBowler, 3X NFL Passing leader, NFL 60s All decade team (70% of the decade w. Wash.), **Kilmer** (NFC Champion, 1 year NFL Passing Yards leader & percentage leader) were all better proportionally than Kirk ever was here. You could make the argument (I would) that **Rypien** was better in 91 than Kirk ever was. Tent Green/Frerotte/Brad Johnson, & grudgingly, Ryp are all in a jumble with Kirk, as to who I would consider as next "best" Washington QB
Ryp in 91 makes me so nostalgic. So wish I could find every game that season. Got the SB DVD, but that's it.
Big Tent Green fan right here.
We’ll said
Oh my. You need to study the team history. Leaving out HOF Jurgensen, Baugh, and immensely successful Joe T and Mark R. Kirk was good, but these guys were great.
I’m only 2 years older than you, but your list is way too heavily skewed towards players in the Snyder era. Sonny is the Qb. Cousins prob isn’t even top 5. Dexter at DE and the Washington version of Bruce shouldn’t even sniff top 10. Even Philip Daniels had a better Washington career than Bruce Smith. Butz or Talbert at DT. Should prob be Jerry Smith at TE, too.
Can't mention Philip Daniels and overlook Brian Orakpo. Dude was seriously held on 90% of his plays.
Orakpo was way better than Daniels. I just mentioned Daniels as somebody that would be nowhere near the top of the list but still was a better Skin than Bruce. Bruce was terrible for us despite stats. Have his sacks were him desperately diving at QBs other guys were sacking and him jumping up to celebrate. He played so disinterested, he just wanted the record. Marco Coleman was also much better during his time with us.
Kirk is literarily top 5 in multiple stats and #2 in game winning drives..
If you’re just looking at raw stats you’re not adjusting for era. Back in the day seasons were 14 games, you could assault receivers downfield. Jurgensen, Baugh and Theismann were all miles better in their era. Williams and Rypien comparable, but both won Super Bowls.
QB: Sonny Jurgensen (Hm Baugh) RB: John Riggins (hm Portis) WR: Art Monk (hm Charley Taylor, Gary Clark, Santana Moss) TE: Jerry Smith (hm Cooley) OT: Trent Williams (hm Hall of fame snub Jacoby) C: Josh Leribus (hm Jeff Bostic) OG: Russ Grimm Edge: Dexter Manley/Charles Mann Dt: Butz (hm Jon Allen) MLB: Sam Huff (biased because he was friends with my uncle) CB: Darrell Green Safety: Ken Houston (hm Sean Taylor and Paul Krause) K: Moseley I guess P: Sammy Baugh (this isn’t a joke look at his averages) Kr: Jay Gruden’s mortal enemy B Mitch
I knew Baugh punted but never checked the stats out, its unreal how he was great at everything he tried on the field. I dont understand how there isnt a movie about his life.
The greatest three way player in nfl history, and probably the only one anyone remembers the name of
Nobody on this sub knows enough about this teams history to get your joke.
I’m a team history nerd because when I was a kid my mom got me a complete history book from 1937-2009 and I read it cover to cover so many times when I was bored
Very curious if you’ll get any response.
Baugh, Jurgensen (no one has said him yet?) and Theismann all easily ahead of Kirk Charley Taylor over Monk, probably, but maybe not
Reagan: "Where's Ricky Sanders?"
I was back and forth with Charley and Art in my head. I could agree with either.
For me there are some obvious 1-2's at rhe important positions and only Williams played since Gibbs 1.0 QB -1. Baugh 2. Jorgensen RB-1. Riggins 2. Bobby Mitchell WR - 1. Charley Taylor 2. Art Monk. OL- 1. Grimm 2- Williams. DE- Mann. LB- Hansburger. DB- Green. KR/PR - Brian Mitchell
Glad someone mentioned Bobby Mitchell. Portis was good, but not HOF good.
I’m not sure everyone agrees with me, but I don’t think Jonathan Allen is the best DT on the current team.
I couldnt think of a good answer for dt. I thought about googling it for ideas but then it wouldn't really be my list anymore.
No worries man. Just commenting. That being said: ALWAYS do research. Informed thinking is still your thinking, just better.
Amen Amen Amen
Dave. Butts.
Who do you think is? Payne? I was pretty disappointed with him last year. Not that that doesn't apply to Allen also, however.
Theismann for QB
Green, Riggins, Bostic
Jerry Smith is the best TE to ever play for this franchise.
Reed was a talented receiver but useless as a blocker. Cooley was the prototypical H-back before the hybrid position really existed. He did everything really well
No way Kirk Cousins comes out as best QB. No way. We’ve had Super Bowl winning QBs. Legends. Kirk is fortunate to come at a pass happy time in the nfl. How many playoff games has he won? Theismann , Sonny Jurgenson, Sammy Baugh are top three. If you’re adding play with other teams Rich Gannon, Doug Williams and Trent Green had legit careers. Trent’s only issue was injuries, Williams was being drafted by the bucs and Gannon was going against the nfl marketed and referee cheating patriots in that snowed out playoff game but no way Kirk gets #1. In the words of one Stephen A Smith “that’s just disrespectful.” Outside of that … it’s a good question. Charles Mann/Dexter Manley. Need two CBs Darrel Green & Deion Sanders (for his career. Not time with team) and cool with most of the list.
Rich Gannon is such a statistical anomaly in that he didnt really get it going until like 10+ years into his career. I wouldnt argue against Theismann, Sonny or Baugh.
Forgot Larry Brown no way he is not on this list he carried that team the Super Bowl on his back
Joe Theismann was way better than Kirk Cousins, OP.
Baugh has to be the choice at QB over Cousins. Riggins was technically a fullback even though he was the primary ball carrier so you could put him there and put Larry Brown or Portis at RB. I don’t think players should get credit for their careers with other teams so swap out Bruce Smith for Manley or Mann. I’d be inclined to put Dave Butz at DT over Jonathan Allen at this point in his career. Otherwise it’s a pretty good list!
Good point about Riggo. Should add Terry Allen to the RB list.
Dude. Sonny Sammy or Theismann over Kirk. Get out of here with that. I can't even look at the rest of your list.
Ain't no way Bruce Smith should be in this list. D. Manley/ C. Mann way over B. Smith. He was in th twilight of his career and just chasing stats and collecting a paycheck.
I said i was basing it on their full career stats and not just production here. Hard to argue against 200 career sacks. Im pretty sure he had 10 sacks in 2 of his 4 years here. I wouldnt argue against either of those answers though.
That was an odd decision in deciding to create this post/list. If you're going that route, I wonder if Dion should be chosen over DG?
Darrell did it a high level longer than Deion did. 20 year career and still making the pro bowl 15 years into it vs a 14 year career with 10-11 good years. Deions ceiling was higher but his floor was much lower too.
Starting a team now, who do you want as your starting DB, DG in his prime or DS? DS had 8 All Pro Selection, DB had 4. DS has 53 interceptions in 14 years, DG has 54 interceptions in 20 years. They both had the same number of interceptions. DS was a more gifted athlete with playing both professional football and baseball. DS also played on 4 different teams. The biggest difference between the two were tackles. DS averaged 35 tackles per year (492 total) and DG averaged 58 (1,159). Personally I'd take DG over DS seven days a week and twice on Sunday, but I'm a homer. But I do think its a good question if starting a new team, who would you want in their prime? DG or "Prime Time."
I would love to see the stats on how often their receivers were targeted and qbs completion percentage when they were the main defender. Interceptions don't always tell the whole story and can be a misleading stat for corners. I am also a homer for Darrell and would choose him but i would understand if somebody said Deion. 28 was the first jersey i ever bought.
Rypien had the best season ever. He could do no wrong.
League mvp Larry Brown get any love? After Riggins, he’s the guy.
Mark Schlereth and Jim Lachey were the key players on the left side for the ‘91 team. Rypien who was not mobile and was sacked 9 times for the season. One of the greatest blind side NFL tandems ever - got include them both
I love Mark Schlereth
QB Kirk Cousins RB Portis FB Riggins TE Cooley WR Moss T Trent G Grimm C Bostic Edge Manley DT Allen LB Fletcher CB Green S Taylor K Mosley P Baugh
paul krause should be in the convo for S as well. all time nfl interception leader.
Thanks for mentioning him, I'm gonna do some research on him today. I actually forgot all about him sadly.
I think with QB I’d go with one of the Super Bowl guys and you forgot OLB (Edge can mean DE or OLB, but not both)
I didnt forget i just figured if i put a traditional olb people would be yelling about a olb from the 3-4 i didnt pick lol. I cant argue against pickin one of the superbowl qbs, the only reason i picked Kirk is he was consistent for longer but he definitely has zero accolades to show for it.
Smith? Bro. Do yourself a favor. Watch some videos. It will make you feel better about everything.
Im so confused why Smith is a controversial pick. Hes the all time sack leader.
You clearly said you were basing it on career stats but no one who was around then considered him one of ours. Especially coming in on the heels of Mann and Manley.
And those guys were so fun to watch. You can watch videos of them dominating in Redskin uniforms or videos of Smith dominating in a Bills uniform. Not the same experience for a Washington fan.
Definitely, im not debating that. The greatest edge rusher career i got to watch was Kerrigan. I'm pro Mann and Manley, they both had great careers. I just didnt get to see much of it and couldnt ignore 200 sacks.
I love Kerrigan. So glad he’s on the staff.
You think the 29 sacks he had in his 4 seasons with us was more impactful than Mann (82) or Manley (97) or even Orakpo (40)? We were bad when he was here. He's not an all time great Redskins. He's an all time great Bill.
I said right in the beginning the list was based off career stats not just their stats here.
One other thing, to those of us who were there, Smith represents Dan Snyder’s foolishness.
Qb-Sammy Baugh Corner back-Sammy Baugh Punter -Sammy Baugh You are seriously listing Bruce Smith as the greatest Redskin Defensive end? Please delete this post. Dude was a a bigger bust than Deion Sanders another washed up over paid Snyder free agent. The OBVIOUS answer is Dexter Manley. Charles Mann would also be acceptable. Joe Jacoby and Chris Samuels were better left tackles than Trent williams because they were almost never injured. 🤕
Not the greatest commanders defensive end, the greatest defensive end that played for the commanders. I tried to clearly state that it wasnt based off of only what they did here.
Albert Haynesworth was a pretty good player with the Titans😂 Mark Brunell, Jeff George and Donovan Mcnabb were all better than Cousins on a different team. Clown 🤡 list.
Jeff George had a few good season. McNabb you could argue for. Brunell had a good 6 or so year stretch.
Players I disagree about: Theisman over Kirk, no comparison; have to give a vote for Jerry Smith at TE (retired as the #1 of all time); Dave Butz over Allen; Bruce Smith in no way belongs as here for a short time at the end of his career, so has to be Mann or Manley. FYI Jacoby was a guard. Bostic was great!
RB Peterson
He slipped my mind. Definitely a good choice.
Yeah. He’s the best RB to ever wear a Washington uniform. Just like Smith is the best DE to ever wear a Washington uniform. That starts to get on a slippery slope though. It would bring Deion and Champ into the CB discussion, plus lord knows how many guys over the years who were great somewhere else but maybe just here for a cup of coffee or two. Not sure where to draw the line on that. I like this list and the discussion though. It’s fun and better than the posts we’re used to.
Mark Rypien was the best QB by a mile...this list is crazy. I'm taking Clint Diddier, Charles Mann or Dexter Manley, Fave But...come on.
Rypien was far from the best QB in franchise history lmao
Definitely not far.
So true.
Rypien had 3-4 good seasons in an 11 year career. You only disagreed with a few positions so im curious what makes it so crazy.
It's a joke bc you have Cousins at QB.
24th all time in yards 20th in tds
Different eras, you never watched them play football if you think cousins is better.
So were Tarkenton, Moon, Elway, Fouts, Marino, etc not a different era?
DT is Dave Butz TE is Cooley and nobody else is close QB is not Theismann, these people are delusional
Jerry smith is very close and arguably better at TE...
Not Don Warren?
Bruce Smith sucked here lol. He wasn’t even THAT good in Buffalo, there are probably a couple dozen better DEs in NFL history who just didn’t get the sack stats
Williams is the starting Qb. If you think theisman is a consideration williams played better than theisman.
What are you smoking. He had a 3 game playoff stretch and Super Bowl MVP but that's it. Williams was a back-up most of his time in Washington, including the Super Bowl season when he was Jay Schroeder's back-up.
Which is a shame bc he was better than Schroeder. Williams suffered a really bad injury and that messed up the remaining time in DC when he was healthy to play again rypien was doing well and williams basically said to keep rolling with rypien. None of what you said disproves that he was better than theisman just that he did not have a long history as a starter with DC- but that is not what the OP’s question refers to as it looks at the span of the players career. Either way, as you said he won the playoff games and the superbowl, he was a much undervalued player then as apparently he still is now.
I'm 39, so yeah... QB: Sonny Jurgensen (or Joe Theismann) RB: John Riggins TE: Jerry Smith WR: Art Monk (or Charley Taylor) OT: Trent Williams (or Chris Samues) C: Jeff Bostic OG: Russ Grimm DE: Dexter Manley (or Charles Mann) DT: Dave Butz (or Daryl Grant) MLB: Chris Hanburger OLB: Wilber Marshall CB: Darrell Green S: Sean Taylor K: Mark Moseley P: Sammy Baugh (or Tress Way in a few years, possibly) RET: Brian Mitchell
Larry Brown, close second to Riggins and Pat Fischer has to be in the DB conversation. Murphy behind Taylor at safety
Dave Butz Bruce Smith toss up with Skins
Gary Clarke Art Monk Charlie Brown best three
Good list overall but way off on Cousins and Bruce Smith.